Pod Insights The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett Moment 140: The 2 Minute Trick That Beats Procrastinating For Good: Ali Abdaal About this episode In this moment, YouTube and productivity expert, Ali Abdaal discusses the power of consistency and how to overcome procrastination. Ali discusses the power of compounding interest, and how small actions over time can snowball into trigger larger rapid changes such as viral success from making a YouTube video every week for 2 years. However, to get to this position, Ali says you have to first learn to love the process, moving away from an outcome based mindset that means success is out of your control, and instead to a view of success that comes from within. To get there first means overcoming hurdles such as procrastination. In order to do this, Ali says you should move away from focusing on a large end goal and instead focus on a series of smaller goals along the was. So rather than worrying about moving a whole mountain, people should focus on moving one pebble at a time.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:03 Steven Bartlett? What have you learnt from your experience on YouTube about the importance of consistency? And also from what you kind of, what typically happens with viral videos is just there's, it's so impossibly hard to predict the outcome, right? So a lot of people, a lot of people on YouTube will make videos called how to make a viral video. And in marketing, it's all like, here are the secret source, here are the secret principles. But in reality, you can only, you can, you can guess a couple of principles, but the outcome is hard to predict. So what have you learnt about consistency, but then also being able to predict the outcome?
0:37 Speaker 01 Yeah, when I was listening to your compelling chapter, I just found myself like nodding along like an absolute maniac to everything you were saying. I think it applies so much to YouTube. These days I teach people how to be part-time YouTubers. And the thing I say is that if you make one video every week for two years, then I 100% guarantee it will change your life. I can't put any numbers on it. I can't tell you'll have 100,000 subscribers or how much money you'll be making, but I can 100% guarantee it will change your life. At the very least, in terms of the skills and the experience and the contacts and the friends you're going to make through that process. But you have to put out one video a week and you have to do it for at least two years.
1:13 Steven Bartlett? Can I just ask on that then, on that point there? What is it that would make someone do that?
1:21 Steven Bartlett? Because I mean, that's like fucking clean the floor every day for two years and I promise you it'll work out for you. Like people don't seem to be able to do those kinds of things without some kind of intrinsic driver. So I'm like, I'm curious, because you could say that to a million people, you could broadcast that through a ton of way. And 95% plus will still fail. So what is it that makes people from your experience, but also from your own life, makes them do the work without guarantee of outcome?
1:53 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think, again, I feel this bit of a cop out because this is stuff that you talk about, like enjoying the process. And this is kind of the theme of the book that I'm writing around how. You know, it's actually quite hard to show up week after week, not see any results, not see the views and the subscribers going up and stuff particularly quickly. But the thing that makes it bearable, the thing that makes it fun is actually enjoying the process and shifting away from outcome oriented goals, like a certain number of views, a certain number of subscribers and more towards goals that are 100% within our control. Like, I just want to make two videos a week. And if I'm happy with a video, then it goes out. And in fact, even if I'm not happy with the video, it goes out anyway. And everyone I know who has succeeded on YouTube has had that kind of attitude at
2:36 Speaker 01 some point. I just have to get that video out every Tuesday without fail. It's not an option. It's going to get done. And, you know, like you say, when we talk about compounding, that video on day one isn't going to do anything. The video on day two, or day three, or day 24 is not going to do anything. But you find when you're on day 300 and day 600, oh, actually, all of this stuff has been compounding very, very slowly. And then the results happen really, really, really slowly. And then all at once, as soon as you just get that one video that goes viral.
3:04 Steven Bartlett? That is, I think that's the chapter where I talk about the eighth wonder of the world. Yeah, that's it with Warren Buffett and my dog Pablo being the opposing investor. And I genuinely, I think I learned that lesson when I wrote the book. When I look back on my life and I thought about all the things that compounded in my favor, whether it was like my, honestly, I'm going to keep it facts with you, my teeth, had some problems with my teeth. And I thought, do you know why? And I probably references in the book, like, I hadn't been brushing one of my teeth properly. And it never mattered today or tomorrow, the day after. But there I was in that dentist's chair, having my teeth fucking pulled out. And then my Instagram was the same. Health and fitness at the moment, the same. My business was the same. And it just goes to show that it's not those key, critical, big decisions
3:48 Steven Bartlett? we make to drop out. It's that like, yeah, it's the compounding small, almost irrelevant decisions. But people don't, because I heard you started working out.
3:59 Speaker 01 I did, yeah.
3:59 Steven Bartlett? And then you stopped.
4:01 Speaker 01 So I've had a personal trainer now for the last kind of eight months or so.
4:04 Steven Bartlett? There you go. Amazing.
4:05 Speaker 01 And, you know, I've been, I've been going on and off with the workout thing since the age of 18 and never done it properly until I got a personal trainer. Where now I'm having to show up, I'm paying someone for a quarter an hour to basically just be with me while I'm doing stuff. And that has been the thing that's given me the most results. So.
4:23 Speaker 01 I think whatever like I find in my life for things for things that I actually care about where I'm like, okay, I actually care about becoming a happy sexy millionaire or whatever. Let me try and figure out ways that will remove my own need for discipline and willpower from that equation. And instead, get an accountability buddy or get a coach or pay a friend a hundred quid if I don't do the thing. This was what my brother and I did when we were trying to motivate ourselves. I was doing songwriting, he was doing standup comedy, like, right? If we don't do this every Thursday for half an hour, we're going to pay each other fifty quid. Things like that to remove the choice, the motivation, the willpower, the discipline. All the more of that can be outsourced to someone else or removed completely. The more I find I actually get stuff done and then I don't have to worry about it because I'm like, okay, this is taken care of.
5:08 Speaker 01 I just show up.
5:09 Steven Bartlett? I guess you're removing, you're moving the most as opposed to like removing it, you're moving it to another pact. Like near I L refers to it as what you've described as a financial pact. Where now your motivation is to not lose fifty quid. It's like, because that is, that's a greater motivating force than you have within yourself to work out. That's interesting. Is that sustainable?
5:29 Speaker 01 No, it's not.
5:30 Steven Bartlett? Okay.
5:32 Speaker 01 This is all the stuff that I'm researching for the, for the book at the moment. And you, and you talk about this as well, like in intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. And the way that I, I think of it, when I, when I think back on my life is that everything that I've done sustainably has been because of intrinsic motivation. I've genuinely enjoyed the thing, but you can genuinely enjoy a thing and still find it really hard to get started. I think that's where the biggest procrastination comes in for all of us, where it's actually just showing up to the gym. That's the hard part. Like, once you're there, it's kind of easy. It's writing those first 10 words because once you've started writing the first 10, it's kind of easier to enjoy the process of writing the rest of them. And so, and so the way I think about it is to get over that like hump of procrastination, that activation energy to get started.
6:14 Speaker 01 At that point, I will use every tool that in my arsenal to just, just get me to do the thing for two minutes. Because I think once, once you do the thing for two minutes, it becomes so much easier to actually enjoy the process and sustain it.
6:26 Steven Bartlett? And you're so right when it comes to procrastination, like that getting started point. I've again just learnt this from podcast guests I've had, Nia Rial, again I refer to him. He said to me one day on this podcast, he was like, people procrastinate usually because there's a great deal of psychological discomfort surrounding starting the task. And a lot of the time, especially with a gym or even an essay, that psychological discomfort is like, you don't have the answers. So I don't know how to use the machines at the gym, or I don't actually have, I don't feel competent enough to even write this essay. So I'm just gonna do the fucking dishes. It's like, I'm gonna Hoover the whole house and anyone else's house that needs hoovering today.
7:03 Speaker 01 Exactly.
7:04 Steven Bartlett? You made a video about procrastination, didn't you?
7:06 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
7:07 Steven Bartlett? Break that down for me. What's in the video? So the video is called How to Stop Procrastinating, right?
7:12 Speaker 01 Yeah. So the way I think about procrastination, basically procrastination is a problem with getting started. Kind of this law of inertia, Newton's first law that if something is at rest, it will continue to stay at rest. But if something's moving, it will continue to move without needing an external force. And so the key to overcoming procrastination is that little, that little nudge at the start towards actually getting started. And all of the techniques around that, like in the whole like psychology research or research around this, it's just around making, make it as easy as possible. So reduce all of the friction to doing it. If you want to learn the guitar, then have the guitar by your sofa rather than in the wardrobe where you're never gonna see it. And if it's out
7:55 Speaker 01 of sight, it's out of mind, you're never gonna do it. There's like the external environmental friction towards doing the thing. But then there's also the internal friction. It's like those narratives that we tell ourselves, the psychological discomfort of going to the gym, the I don't want to see how other people are gonna see me, the even, even having, having the wrong sort of goal. Like if my goal in writing the book is, I really want to hit the New York Times bestseller list, then it's really, really hard to bring myself to write anything, because now every single word I have to write has to be a New York Times bestselling word. Whereas if the goal is, to be honest, I just want to write a book I'm proud of, that's fun to, fun to write. That's actually within my control. And it becomes so much easier to get started at doing the thing. So to overcome procrastination. Procrastination, we need to eliminate external friction, i.e. the environmental stuff.
8:39 Speaker 01 We need to try our best to get rid of the internal friction, like the emotional side of it, the mindset, the perfectionism, the fear, the discomfort. And then if we still need help, there are a few hacks. The one that I use all the time is the two minute rule, which is where I will genuinely convince myself I'm only going to do it for two minutes. And if I want, I'm allowed to stop after the two minutes because two minutes is better than nothing. But like 95% of the time I decide to continue because two minutes is all you need to change your life.
9:06 Steven Bartlett? Yeah.
9:06 Speaker 01 I should tweet that. That's good.
9:07 Steven Bartlett? So yeah, that's really good. And that two minute thing is fascinating to me because I, one of the things that I see as another psychological barrier to starting is people view it as like, they view the challenge as Mount Everest. Whereas like they've got to, I'll say it in another way, they view the challenge as moving Mount Everest. And really, if they viewed it as just like moving one pebble at a time, it becomes such a simple task.
9:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:28 Steven Bartlett? And I get this a lot when entrepreneurs ask me, they say, Steve, I want to start a business. Where do I start? And you can hear in the question that they see it as moving Mount Everest. And I'm like, well, today, all you have to do is think of a name. Just think of like 50 names, make a shortlist of names. And then we'll revisit it tomorrow. And then tomorrow, maybe think of, you know, go and check if the website's available. And then we'll revisit it the day after.
9:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:52 Steven Bartlett? And when it becomes that, and when it becomes sort of really small itemized, one small step at a time, and you not having to get from step zero to a thousand immediately, it becomes so, you know, the psychological discomfort fades away. It feels achievable. And that your two minute rule is doing a similar thing where it's saying, well, today only I've only got to do just, just fucking open the word document and write the title and then we're done. You know, and so that's fascinating. What about, you were gonna say something else there?
10:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, just to your point there, have you come across the blog Wait But Why?
10:24 Steven Bartlett? No.
10:25 Speaker 01 Oh, it's incredible. You should definitely interview Tim Urban when you're in America.
10:27 Steven Bartlett? Oh, I literally yesterday went on his Instagram and sent him a DM.
10:31 Speaker 01 Oh, great. Yeah, he's awesome. Any podcast he's ever been on, I've been like, oh, this is so sick. He has a great blog post series about overcoming procrastination. And the way he refers to that, that point you just made is that there are lots of tasks that are very like vague and icky. And you have to be able to un-icify a task. And something like start a business is icky. Something like learn to code is icky because like, what the hell does that even mean? Like, where do you even start? Whereas brainstorm 10 ideas for a name and pick one of them is a very clearly defined next action step. And so I get this with students all the time where people are like, oh, I don't have the motivation to study for my chemistry exam. It's like, what's on your to do list? Study for my chemistry exam. That's never gonna happen.
11:12 Speaker 01 Read chapter one and answer questions four to five are a reasonable thing, a reasonably defined next action step. And so what I do is anytime I find myself procrastinating from something, I think, okay, am I procrastinating because I actually, the, the task is too icky? I, I don't know what I have to do. Cause once I know what I have to do, I can then do it for two minutes and it gets done.
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