BUT KARAMO I LOVE HIM Ft. Karamo Brown | Episode 148

Karamo Brown joins Drew on the show this week for a conversation that goes EVERYWHERE. They talk about Karamo making people cry on Queer Eye, Karamo has Drew read the wild plans for his ashes in his will, the law of abundance, edging, the time Drew escaped a toxic situationship, why men are afraid of their own intimacy, and so much more. Karamo IG: https://www.instagram.com/karamo/?hl=en Karamo Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@karamoshow?lang=en Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 1:02Speaker 02

  This is gonna sound morbid, but it's not meant to be. I can't wait till you and I are ancestors.

• 1:06Drew Afualo?

  Right? I'm gonna be so good.

• 1:08Speaker 02

  Three generations from now, they have no idea what's gonna happen when we're on their side.

• 1:11Drew Afualo?

  I'm gonna be like Mushu.

• 1:12Speaker 02

  Bitch, we are gonna be everything.

• 1:14Drew Afualo?

  I'm gonna be, seriously. I'm gonna be mean, but I'm gonna be gentle.

• 1:17Speaker 02

  We're gentle.

• 1:17Drew Afualo?

  Holding your hand.

• 1:24Drew Afualo?

  Hey, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Comment Section Show. Sorry, me, your fave, everybody knows me, who cares about me? Onto the guests today. We have the iconic, the legendary, the fantastic, the amazing, Karamo Brown.

• 1:38Speaker 02

  I care deeply about you, so. I kinda wanted your intro, no, I'm joking. I love you. I'm a fan.

• 1:44Drew Afualo?

  You've earned it.

• 1:45Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:46Drew Afualo?

  I am a huge fan. Well, the beginning of every episode, I always call it like, I just jerk off my guests. Because I'm huge fans of all my guests. But I have been a fan of you for years, forever.

• 1:57Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:57Drew Afualo?

  Not in a weird way. In a very admirable way.

• 1:59Speaker 02

  I would take a weird way.

• 2:00Drew Afualo?

  Okay. All right, fine, it was weird.

• 2:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can be weird with me. It'll be okay.

• 2:05Drew Afualo?

  But I'm so honored to have you. I'm so glad you could come on the show and hang out with us.

• 2:10Speaker 02

  We were talking about before, someone was trying to keep us separate. Because I said yes immediately. And you were like, bitch, I tried to get you here a while ago.

• 2:15Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, I was like.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  Grow that, it wasn't me. We gonna find out who it was.

• 2:19Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, and your team's here.

• 2:20Speaker 02

  Exactly, and we gonna.

• 2:21Drew Afualo?

  And I'm like, that's y'all.

• 2:23Speaker 02

  Someone's turning red over there, by the way.

• 2:26Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, but you are a busy, busy, busy man, so I'm not surprised.

• 2:29Speaker 02

  She tries to keep a coin.

• 2:30Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 2:31Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:31Drew Afualo?

  Have to.

• 2:32Speaker 02

  You have to.

• 2:33Drew Afualo?

  Especially now.

• 2:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:34Drew Afualo?

  And the world needs you, especially now.

• 2:36Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 2:37Drew Afualo?

  So I would love, I know, I'm very familiar with your background and your lore, but for those that aren't, I would love, obviously, most people know you from Queer Eye.

• 2:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:45Drew Afualo?

  Which is fantastic.

• 2:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:46Drew Afualo?

  Um, I would love to know just your journey into this business, how you became to be the Karamo Brown.

• 2:50Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh. Um, I mean, well, she was just a poor little, um, girl from, you know, um, no, seriously, I was just, I grew up like, super poor and like, super, like, tough life. You know, like, you know, like, my parents are not from this country. We had no money. Um, I mean, like, my father was abusive. It was like, a lot of that. Um, I told the world I was gay at 15, and then it just made my life chaotic then because like,

• 3:18Drew Afualo?

  About.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  Having family not from this country, they did not like it. I'm the only boy.

• 3:21Drew Afualo?

  Really?

• 3:22Speaker 02

  And it was just like, oh, my gosh, what's going on? But within that, I just kept believing that something had to be better. And that has always been the core crutch of my life, is that something has to be better.

• 3:33Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 3:33Speaker 02

  I would tell myself two things every day, which is, something has to be better, and if this yahoo can do it, then so can I. And I've been saying that through those things forever, still to this day. When I see something I want, I'm like, well, that yahoo can do it, then I can. And so, you know, just, all those things led me to be like, I want to be able to be there for myself, but I also want to be there for other people. And it led me to a career in social services, which then one day I wanted to be in TV, and my family said, TV's not a real job. And I was like, I'll show you what a real job is.

• 4:03Drew Afualo?

  You're okay, well, I guess we'll see then.

• 4:04Speaker 02

  Okay, we'll see then. You'll see then. You know what I mean? And then it led me to getting my first job with Oprah, hosting a show.

• 4:11Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 4:11Speaker 02

  Which, by the way, they fired me from. And the EP of that show told me that I was not a good host, and I would never host ever again. She kept on the two other girls.

• 4:20Drew Afualo?

  And how do you think they feel now? Pretty fucking silly, I guess.

• 4:23Speaker 02

  I've actually seen them and I'm like, thanks for the encouragement, girl.

• 4:27Drew Afualo?

  You're actually the reason why I worked even harder.

• 4:29Speaker 02

  Thank you for making me who I am because I was like, oh, really? And then, you know, got Queer Eye.

• 4:37Speaker 02

  Changed my category around. And then got a talk show going in season three right now. And that's just where I'm at, just, you know.

• 4:46Drew Afualo?

  And it all worked out exactly the way you always knew it would.

• 4:50Speaker 02

  Yes. Because I do believe if you don't believe it first, then nobody else is.

• 4:56Drew Afualo?

  You're so me, girl. I feel the same way. Manifestation is so powerful.

• 4:59Speaker 02

  It is real.

• 5:00Drew Afualo?

  And the words you say to yourself.

• 5:01Speaker 02

  Words you say to yourself and people don't understand, it's called self. Everything starts with self and if your self is not right, your everything else around you is gonna not work. And then you're gonna look at yourself and be like, why is this not working, girl? Because self is not working.

• 5:16Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, it's like when you're not right, nothing's right.

• 5:18Speaker 02

  Nothing's right.

• 5:18Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, totally. So when you, when you transitioned from hosting, like, just with the show that you got fired from to Queer Eye, what was that transition like? How did you feel after you got fired? Because I've actually gotten fired, I got fired right before I started doing this for a living.

• 5:32Speaker 02

  Did you really?

• 5:32Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, I swear to God. I got fired from what I thought was my dream job at the time. And obviously, looking back now, I know that that was not my dream job. And I, I say it all the time, I worked at the NFL. I wanted to be in sports journalism, so that was like my goal. And then I describe it now as like I climbed the mountain and I just didn't like the view.

• 5:53Speaker 02

  Oh, that's cute.

• 5:54Drew Afualo?

  I just wasn't sure where to go.

• 5:56Speaker 02

  That is cute.

• 5:57Drew Afualo?

  I'm coming for your gig, mom.

• 5:58Speaker 02

  No, come for it. Come for it, girl. Oh, I live. There's room enough atop of this view, girl.

• 6:05Drew Afualo?

  Right, tea.

• 6:06Speaker 02

  We can all be up there.

• 6:07Drew Afualo?

  And I, you know, when you, you work that long and hard towards something and then it gets taken from you as opposed to you leaving it, I was truly like at a loss. Like I was like, well, what do I do now? And I have, I'm not someone, I don't know if you could tell, but I'm not someone who struggles with confidence, especially in what I do. Like, I'm very confident about what I do and where I'm going and who I am. And so I'd never felt that kind of like loss before. I've never, I'd never. Ever felt anything like that, so I know now too.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  I agree, that's how it was.

• 6:33Drew Afualo?

  Right, so I'm curious to know how you felt at the time.

• 6:35Speaker 02

  Same as you did.

• 6:36Drew Afualo?

  Really?

• 6:36Speaker 02

  I was very, I just felt like, kinda like, what is this? You know what I mean? Because I'm a person, we put into the work, we do the work.

• 6:43Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 6:43Speaker 02

  We're confident, we're sure.

• 6:45Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  And then when someone else doesn't see, or we don't, the vision we saw, like you said, the view got up there, it wasn't there.

• 6:50Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  In my case, the view was it. I was like, I can stay here.

• 6:53Drew Afualo?

  Period.

• 6:54Speaker 02

  I was like, I'm working for Oprah, girl, yeah, she'll make this like, this is the first step, you know what I mean?

• 6:58Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, totally.

• 6:59Speaker 02

  And, and so when my view got taken away, um, that I thought was the view, I had to reframe quickly and realize that there was a better view.

• 7:08Drew Afualo?

  Right, yeah.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Versus where you were like, no, this is not what I want.

• 7:11Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, it didn't, it didn't feel like it, once I was up there.

• 7:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, mine was like, okay then, well now that I've gotten a taste of this view, I know that there's another view out there.

• 7:19Drew Afualo?

  An even better one.

• 7:20Speaker 02

  A better one, and so, it's, you know, it's in those moments of doubt, that you just really have to hold on to self.

• 7:26Drew Afualo?

  Right, yeah.

• 7:28Speaker 02

  And that's all I did, I just went, I was like, I was like, something's gotta be better, and I literally went on, um, and this is no shade to him, but I went on TV, my best friend's here, I've 25 years, best friend Trey. And I was like, I saw Ryan Seacrest on TV, and I was like, if this Yahoo is doing this shit, I could do this. And I don't even, and I'm not calling Ryan Seacrest a yahoo, yeah, no shade, because I've admired him, I think he's amazing, um.

• 7:47Drew Afualo?

  I feel you though.

• 7:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I was like, I was like, if he's, if this Yahoo's doing it, I know I can get another job. I was like, I know I can get another job, girl, like, this is, I can host, I know I can.

• 7:57Drew Afualo?

  Right, exactly, exactly.

• 7:59Speaker 02

  You wanna hear a funny thing about Ryan Seacrest that I know a ton about?

• 8:01Drew Afualo?

  I would love to hear it, share it with us.

• 8:03Speaker 02

  Can I share this?

• 8:04Drew Afualo?

  Please do. And if you wanna cut it later, we can.

• 8:06Speaker 02

  No, we don't have to cut this, no, anything I say, no.

• 8:08Drew Afualo?

  I'm telling your team to make it feel better.

• 8:09Speaker 02

  I'm an open book, you can keep everything in there, you'll never get that. Um, so, so I have this funny joke with my kids, that is real now.

• 8:17Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  That I put in my will, that when I die, I wanna be cremated, and for them to get my money, they have to put my ashes on Ryan Seacrest's lawn.

• 8:27Speaker 02

  And I swear to God, this is in my will. I'm not even joking with you. I think I sent my son a copy of it because he didn't believe me.

• 8:33Drew Afualo?

  That's so funny.

• 8:34Speaker 02

  I'm gonna find this for you really quickly.

• 8:35Drew Afualo?

  I love, please do. I love a bit that makes it all the way. You said, "I'm gonna be annoying even in death."

• 8:42Speaker 02

  Okay, so hold on, here it goes right here.

• 8:44Drew Afualo?

  I'm gonna be invisible even in the afterlife.

• 8:45Speaker 02

  This is legit. Hold on, here I come. I'm sorry, it's doing some auto fill for him, but you can read it.

• 8:49Drew Afualo?

  Okay. It says, "I would like my body cremated. My ashes should be given to my son Jason for him to spread a bit on Ryan Seacrest's lawn, if permissible."

• 9:01Speaker 02

  So...

• 9:02Drew Afualo?

  That is in print. That is like actually your will.

• 9:04Speaker 02

  That is actually in my will, that if I die, my ashes will be on Ryan Seacrest's lawn. And by the way, I've met Ryan Seacrest, he's a great guy, and he has no idea. That my son...

• 9:15Drew Afualo?

  I love that. This is where he's gonna find out.

• 9:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's gonna find this out right now. I'm sorry, I just totally went sideways with it, but I had to share with you.

• 9:21Drew Afualo?

  That's the best part of the, that's the best part of the show. Honestly, you wanna hear my invisible string to you with Ryan Seacrest? Ryan Seacrest was like the first serious interview I did where my, like, my dad, like, the older men in my family were like,

• 9:37Speaker 02

  Oh, you're so right. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? That was the one. It's like, oh.

• 9:43Drew Afualo?

  It's him, it's Ryan.

• 9:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, Ryan Seacrest.

• 9:45Drew Afualo?

  I was like, I've been profiled by like BuzzFeed and like, at that point, I had all these other people writing articles about me, but Ryan Seacrest?

• 9:52Speaker 02

  Was the one. That was the one.

• 9:53Drew Afualo?

  The older men in my family were like, hell yeah.

• 9:55Speaker 02

  Ryan Seacrest had us all in a chokehold.

• 9:57Drew Afualo?

  Right. I agree.

• 9:58Speaker 02

  For about 18 years. I mean, I still love Ryan Seacrest, again, but the chokehold that he had on all of us going from Idol to E.

• 10:07Drew Afualo?

  Right, and a monopoly on the hosting gigs.

• 10:09Speaker 02

  Girl, she said, "I'm taking every coin."

• 10:13Drew Afualo?

  Everywhere, everywhere I turn and look, I see him. So I don't blame you for being like, "I could do that."

• 10:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was like, "That yahoo, I'm doing that shit." I'm like, "Girl, I'm getting this money."

• 10:21Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, oh, I was a big fan of American Idol too. I remember American Idol, the only season I ever voted on the phone for American Idol was for Fantasia, because I wanted her to win.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  Me too!

• 10:32Drew Afualo?

  Look at our invisible string.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  I know this invisible string. Because it's the only season because I was, um, because I was so pissed about that final three.

• 10:40Drew Afualo?

  Me too.

• 10:41Speaker 02

  That I literally then was like, she gotta win, she gotta win this shit.

• 10:44Drew Afualo?

  I literally, we took like the house, we had one house phone.

• 10:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:48Drew Afualo?

  And I was like telling my parents, we have to vote. We have to call and vote, our vote matters.

• 10:53Speaker 02

  Yo, they don't understand what they did. They activated people of color in a way they did not know.

• 10:57Drew Afualo?

  They, they really, they mobilized us, just like in 2008.

• 11:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, they did, they mobilized us. They mobilized us.

• 11:04Drew Afualo?

  Oh my gosh, that's so funny. Oh, well, I love, I love that you're so driven by like purpose and I, I love that. Have you always been that self-assured?

• 11:12Speaker 02

  I have, I have.

• 11:13Drew Afualo?

  I love that.

• 11:14Speaker 02

  It's really because when you grow up with nothing.

• 11:16Drew Afualo?

  Mm-hmm.

• 11:17Speaker 02

  You're, the way that I related to my trauma is that I didn't deserve it. And so I knew early on that I didn't deserve the things that were happening to me.

• 11:26Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  And some people fall into a mindset where they relate to their traumas like this is just me. This is what, this is just my life. And I knew very early on to tell myself, I don't deserve this.

• 11:35Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 11:35Speaker 02

  And when you know you don't deserve this, it gives you this sort of drive and purpose to know you have to go after something. So all through high school and middle school, I was always successful. College, I was always like an overachiever.

• 11:45Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 11:46Speaker 02

  Because I knew that if my circumstances weren't to give me what I wanted, I had to do the work for myself.

• 11:50Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:51Speaker 02

  And it, but it started with that mind, that shift in my mindset of like, I don't deserve this.

• 11:56Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 11:57Speaker 02

  And even to this day, I still wake up and I evaluate every week, I end of my weekend, this is not no bullshit. I end my week with asking, what happened this week that I don't deserve? And I promise you, it really makes me just, it shifts like people being in my life. It shifts career choices, it shifts everything.

• 12:12Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, I love that.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  Because people don't evaluate that enough. We feel like that we just have to go with it. Oh, I'm at work, this is what it happens.

• 12:18Drew Afualo?

  That's so true.

• 12:19Speaker 02

  Oh, we've been in a relationship for so long. I guess it's just what it is.

• 12:22Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, that's so true.

• 12:23Speaker 02

  No, girl, I don't deserve this. Oh, you at work talking to me like you crazy, girl? I don't deserve this, girl. Let me, let me figure out what we gotta do here. Either you gotta go or I gotta move on.

• 12:32Drew Afualo?

  Right, that's, that's actually so real too, because even when I was, when I was working at the NFL and I was unhappy, I'm also not someone who deviates unless I have. Have a plan like I I'm not someone who's who's impulsive like I'm very like I plan everything out yeah. And so I knew I was gonna work at the NFL with no plan at all. I knew I was gonna work there when I was like fifteen.

• 12:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:53Drew Afualo?

  So I believe I believe in myself enough, right? So I totally relate to that too. And then when I was there, I I always say the worst thing that job took for me was like my self-assuredness. Because I started to doubt myself and I've never been that way. Or like my gut instinct. I always call it like my third eye.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  Yes, of course.

• 13:09Drew Afualo?

  Like my third eye always knows, like always knows if something's not right, if it doesn't feel right. Like you said, if you don't deserve it.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:14Drew Afualo?

  And so I felt like while I was there, sometimes I'm like, you know, I feel like the universe is always on my side. I feel like it's always looking out for me. I always like say like my ancestors, I think are always looking out for me.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  You and I are one in this.

• 13:25Drew Afualo?

  We really are. When you were talking right now, I was like, she's so me.

• 13:28Speaker 02

  And you're so me, girl.

• 13:30Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 13:30Speaker 02

  Best friend. Is this not the shit I say?

• 13:32Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, all the time.

• 13:33Speaker 02

  All the time. You sound like me.

• 13:35Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  If y'all wanna know the like manifesto of success, girl, just like tune in right here. We're telling you what we feeling, what we.

• 13:41Drew Afualo?

  I'm telling you.

• 13:42Speaker 02

  Like literally.

• 13:42Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, and I and I always feel like my ancestors are guiding me and they're always telling me stuff. And that's why I truly like believe my guts so severely.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  Same.

• 13:49Drew Afualo?

  So if something feels off, I know it's off.

• 13:51Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 13:52Drew Afualo?

  And I felt so off at that job and I wasn't leaving. And so I feel like when I don't listen, like my ancestors just Spartan kick me off the pack.

• 14:00Speaker 02

  Kick you off, yeah.

• 14:01Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, cuz I'm not listening. Yeah, and I and they fired me and I've never been fired before. I've never, like you, I overachieved a lot in school.

• 14:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:08Drew Afualo?

  I was I was always taking a lot of pride in like academics. Also, I was an athlete too. So I was very like used to being like good at everything. Everything I put my mind to and commit myself to, I'm good at. And I know I'll get. But whether or not I keep it, I think depends on whether or not I'm supposed to have it. That's kinda how I see it now. At the time, though, I felt so like unhappy cuz I was like, I'm unhappy, but I didn't wanna get fired. I was like, I'm so happy, but I didn't wanna get fired. I wanted to like leave on my own.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:36Drew Afualo?

  But then I realized too, like even when I left, like I remember the next day, my parents were like, well, first of all, my the first thing my dad said to me when I called him cuz my mom was busy, so I had to call my dad. And my dad was like, congratulations. And I was like, I don't know, is that's like a good thing?

• 14:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, like a good day.

• 14:53Drew Afualo?

  Well, my parents knew how unhappy I was, so they were like.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, so they were happy.

• 14:56Drew Afualo?

  Well, yeah, they were like, well, this is the best case scenario, because now you can pursue something else, like what you really want to do.

• 15:01Speaker 02

  Amen.

• 15:01Drew Afualo?

  And I was like, I thought that this is what I wanted to do, like, but apparently it wasn't meant for me, and so I remember.

• 15:06Speaker 02

  By the way, good job to your mom, she's here for that mom, high five.

• 15:10Drew Afualo?

  My mom's always here. And I remember the next day, they took me to Disneyland to like, try and cheer me up, and my mom bought me like, a mug, and she was like, this is just to remind you that this wasn't for you, like, something else is gonna come, something bigger, something grander, something more important, like, something that you're actually supposed to do. And then I started doing this, like, probably a year later.

• 15:30Speaker 02

  And it took off.

• 15:31Drew Afualo?

  And it took off, and now this is my true purpose.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 15:35Drew Afualo?

  Telling men to suck my wiener is my true purpose, I'm like, I'm coming to realize.

• 15:39Speaker 02

  Okay, no shade.

• 15:41Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 15:41Speaker 02

  By the way, um, this is gonna sound morbid, but it's not meant to be.

• 15:44Drew Afualo?

  Oh, please don't.

• 15:44Speaker 02

  I can't wait till you and I are ancestors.

• 15:46Drew Afualo?

  Right, I'm gonna be so good.

• 15:48Speaker 02

  Three generations from now, they have no idea what's gonna happen when we're on their side.

• 15:51Drew Afualo?

  I'm gonna be like Mushu.

• 15:52Speaker 02

  Bitch, we are gonna be everything, seriously.

• 15:54Drew Afualo?

  I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be mean, but I'm gonna be with gentle.

• 15:57Speaker 02

  With gentle.

• 15:57Drew Afualo?

  Holding your hand.

• 15:58Speaker 02

  But literally, us as ancestors?

• 16:00Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 16:01Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. There is like, three generations from now, you might see this in some weird thing and not know we're talking about you, but we're literally watching out for you.

• 16:09Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, always, and I always know, I'm like, whatever they're planning for me, I know is far better than what I have.

• 16:15Speaker 02

  Yes, of course.

• 16:15Drew Afualo?

  And so, back to you, and back to Queer Eye, I would love to know what your experience was, like, first coming onto Queer Eye, like, how did you feel? Like, what did that feel like, being a part of something? Obviously, it's like, the revamp of it, when it initially got put on, so I'm curious to know how you felt about it.

• 16:28Speaker 02

  Well, Queer Eye, I've talked about this a little bit before, Queer Eye in the beginning for me was a little bit hard, because, yeah, it was, because, um, when I came in, I had a different idea of what my category was, and I've said this once before, um, we were in episode two of season one, and I, episode one, I had, you know, done what I do, where I went deep, um, and talked to somebody about their emotional state.

• 16:49Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 16:50Speaker 02

  And they started crying.

• 16:51Drew Afualo?

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:52Speaker 02

  And episode two, it happened again, and literally, this person came into our trailer. And kicked the door and said, if you make one more mother effing person cry, you are off this show.

• 17:03Drew Afualo?

  Interesting.

• 17:04Speaker 02

  And it was because the person who had the role before, the culture, the category culture was about exposing people to arts. It was about showing them Broadway and, you know, these things. And I was like, no, this needs to be about mental health. And I was like, that's what I thought y'all hired me for.

• 17:20Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  But this person was like, no. And it was, it was very difficult because I found myself being cut off in having deeper conversations. But somehow, I was able to still shine it through.

• 17:34Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 17:34Speaker 02

  And then all I remember is that the show ended and all of a sudden, they sang this song for me, I can't remember what it was, to, "You're not crying, I'm crying."

• 17:43Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 17:45Speaker 02

  And I was like, oh, oh, well, you girls wanted me not to make the girls cry.

• 17:50Drew Afualo?

  I thought no one was allowed to cry.

• 17:51Speaker 02

  Nobody was allowed to cry. Oh, and now y'all want to edit them all in? Oh, and then now, season three, it's like, can you make the girls cry? I'm like, oh.

• 18:00Drew Afualo?

  Oh, now you want me to.

• 18:01Speaker 02

  Now you want the tears, girl. Oh. And so, but in the beginning, it was me questioning when what I knew was right and what I knew this show needed for evolution. Because like, my castmates are like phenomenal. And like, Jonathan is, JVN is one of the funniest people I've ever seen. Anthony is one of the most empathetic people I've ever known. Tan is one of the most creative and, and strong-willed people I've ever met. Bobby was just so loving and endearing. And I was just like, I know that this show, for being Evolution, where we're at, needs a mental health component. And it was funny because it was not seen and I was told that I was wrong. And I just had to continue to do it.

• 18:43Speaker 02

  Under the guise that I was told during episode two that they were going to fire me.

• 18:47Drew Afualo?

  Yeah. And you still stuck to it, though?

• 18:49Speaker 02

  I stuck to it, yeah, that's what I'm saying, because my gut was telling me, as we talked about. And so, but that fear of no, of feeling like, okay, this, you know, like, I, I, I believe in the law of abundance. There will be something, yeah.

• 19:02Drew Afualo?

  Same.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  Something that the universe will provide, God will provide, answers will provide, I will provide. And so, I was like, well, I'm not going to let this fear that you're trying to put onto me, stop me from doing what I'm supposed to do in this moment. And if I'm only supposed to do it for one season or two, then that's what it is. And now we're in season nine.

• 19:21Drew Afualo?

  So what?

• 19:21Speaker 02

  So what? And then the girl got a talk show off of it. Okay, so, so to that person who said in episode two.

• 19:30Drew Afualo?

  Eat it.

• 19:32Drew Afualo?

  I'll tell you, you can suck my wiener.

• 19:33Speaker 02

  Suck my wiener.

• 19:34Drew Afualo?

  There you go.

• 19:36Speaker 02

  No shade.

• 19:37Drew Afualo?

  I think that's, I think that's, uh.

• 19:38Speaker 02

  So that was my journey.

• 19:39Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, I love that. No, I think that's incredible. And I think that's also, it speaks to what you were saying earlier, which is, all of the outside doesn't matter if the inside is rotten. Like, if it's not healed inside, it's a temporary fix. It's like a Band-Aid on a bullet hole kind of thing, so.

• 19:55Speaker 02

  And that's what I always saw with the original show, which I thought was, I loved the original show. But I was like, we're not going deeper.

• 20:01Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 20:01Speaker 02

  Like, you can, what I know to be true about any person I know is that you can fix all the outside, girl. But if you ain't figured it out on the inside, it's take you about a week before you stop cutting your hair, before you stop brushing your teeth. That's why most of these girls who think that they can fix men, I'd be like, girl, you cannot fix him until he wants to fix himself.

• 20:18Drew Afualo?

  Amen.

• 20:19Speaker 02

  Like, no shade.

• 20:20Drew Afualo?

  It's true. You can't love someone into being a good person.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  You cannot.

• 20:23Drew Afualo?

  You can't love them into being a good partner.

• 20:24Speaker 02

  You can't. And so they have to do that work on their own.

• 20:27Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  And so that's what my goal was for this, of like, let me help you to understand how to do that. So when anything else that comes in your life will be in addition to it, will gain you more.

• 20:36Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, it's like, uh, the, you can teach Amanda fish kind of thing.

• 20:40Speaker 02

  Yep, exactly.

• 20:40Drew Afualo?

  Or like, uh, or you can feed him with a fish and he'll eat for one day. It's one of those things where, like you said, it's like, anything else that happens to you, you can draw from this place. Cause you're not gonna be there forever.

• 20:51Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna be there forever.

• 20:52Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, so giving them the tools to be able to fix it on their own is just as important.

• 20:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:57Drew Afualo?

  And I'll, it's also, I've kind of talked about this too, cause I obviously do very similar things on, on top of like ruining Awful Men's Day on the internet.

• 21:06Drew Afualo?

  That is my purpose. Um, that's my God-given talent. Um, but past that, I think a lot of times I empower women and others, like anyone who's marginalized, especially by cis straight men.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  You've empowered me.

• 21:18Drew Afualo?

  Period. You've empowered me, girl.

• 21:21Drew Afualo?

  And it's like, uh, it's one of those things where I've told them. I can't tell you, because sometimes they'll say like, how do I get a man like yours? I want a man like yours, like whatever, right? Always, because obviously, I am who I am and I have someone who loves me for who I am. And I've told them, I can't tell you how to get a man like mine. What I can tell you is that no one should ever love you more than you love yourself. And if you don't work on that, you're never gonna find anyone worthy of you. That's the only thing I can teach you, really, because that's the only thing that matters.

• 21:49Speaker 02

  Nonstop. And when I say the girls, I always mean the guys and the girls.

• 21:52Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 21:53Speaker 02

  The gays and girls.

• 21:54Drew Afualo?

  I said that too.

• 21:56Speaker 02

  It's the truth.

• 21:57Drew Afualo?

  Yeah. I would love to know, what's your, what do you think is your most asked question as far as like, self-help? Whether it's on your show, on Queer Eye, in person?

• 22:07Speaker 02

  Well, okay, yeah, well, I'll tell you the, let me figure that out. I'll tell you the thing that I hear the most that I'm annoyed by.

• 22:13Drew Afualo?

  Oh, please do, I love that too.

• 22:14Speaker 02

  The thing that I hear the most is, and this is not just on my talk show, I've heard this for years, is when I'm like, well, why don't you leave? Well, why don't you, because you know, my whole thing is about, do you understand what you deserve?

• 22:23Drew Afualo?

  It's you, yeah.

• 22:25Speaker 02

  You know, is, but Karamo, I love him.

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• 23:34Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  I have shot over 300 episodes in my talk show. And I promise you 80% of the time, when I ask somebody, "Why are you saying some stupid shit?" They're like, "Because Karama, I love him. But Karama, I love him." And I'm like...

• 23:48Drew Afualo?

  Do you love you?

• 23:49Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah.

• 23:49Drew Afualo?

  Doesn't sound like it.

• 23:50Speaker 02

  That's the only... That's your marker? Like, that's it? Like, I just asked you and that's their one thing? Bitch, you could've given me anything, bitch. You could've told me, like, "You know what? He gets up and he fucking cooks me breakfast every morning and I'm a fat ass and I need my fucking food." Like, I don't know.

• 24:04Drew Afualo?

  Anything that works, yeah.

• 24:05Speaker 02

  But I love him?

• 24:06Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 24:07Speaker 02

  Girl, you gotta get together. Um, let me see, what's the question I hear most in life?

• 24:11Drew Afualo?

  Do you get annoyed by... I get annoyed. And the reason why is because I'm like, "Well, he doesn't love you." And that's obvious.

• 24:18Speaker 02

  Obvious!

• 24:18Drew Afualo?

  So what are we thinking about?

• 24:19Speaker 02

  And that is always my next response. I'm like, "But you know he don't love you."

• 24:22Drew Afualo?

  And they're like, "Well..."

• 24:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. But for me, and not to go... I'm gonna get back to your question because I'm thinking about it at the same time. But then that also leads into, "Do you know the definition of love?" And I think that most people have never truly defined what love is. They have either a Hollywood version of what they think love is. They either have a skewed version from the love that they saw in their households.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  And so they don't know what love is. And I always tell people, "If you can define what you deserve and you can define what love is, it will, like you said, lead you to a place where you love yourself and then you realize that no one can love you more than you love you."

• 24:56Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 24:57Speaker 02

  Otherwise, the relationship will not work.

• 24:59Drew Afualo?

  Absolutely.

• 25:00Speaker 02

  Um, and that is such a key thing.

• 25:02Drew Afualo?

  Yeah. I hear that a lot, too. Like, what do I do? Like, sometimes it's kind of similar, but not. Sometimes I get like, "What do I do if he just randomly got really cheap?" And like, "What do I do if he just randomly started doing this?" And I always ask, like, "How long have y'all been together?" Most times, it's like two, three years at minimum.

• 25:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:20Drew Afualo?

  To which I'm always... I always say, "He didn't just get that way. He's been that way and you can't take it anymore." Those are... That's different. And I always say, like, "People don't just get cheap overnight."

• 25:32Speaker 02

  You gotta preach.

• 25:33Drew Afualo?

  Right, and they don't. And I've told people, like, "There is a fair amount of autonomy in these situations." Because when you understand, "I am autonomous, I'm choosing to be..." Here, that's a lot harder to come to terms with than it would be to be like, he treats me poorly. Right, and but instead of saying, he treats me poorly and I'm okay with it, that's why I stay here.

• 25:52Speaker 02

  Can I talk about this really quickly?

• 25:53Drew Afualo?

  Please do.

• 25:54Speaker 02

  Fucking so glad that this, I'm so thankful.

• 25:57Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 25:58Speaker 02

  That this generation, all generations has your voice.

• 26:01Drew Afualo?

  Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.

• 26:03Speaker 02

  I just, I just wanna like, give you some praise right now. Thank God for you.

• 26:07Drew Afualo?

  I appreciate that. Thank you, thank you. I know, I gotta enjoy, you can't be doing it by yourself. You've been doing it by yourself for too long.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  I know, but, but what you do is just so powerful and impactful and like.

• 26:16Drew Afualo?

  Thank you.

• 26:17Speaker 02

  People need to hear this from somebody who looks like them, sounds like them and is letting you know like, girl, I might not have all the answers, but I know this answer.

• 26:24Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, and so, you know what's funny is like, even talking to you now.

• 26:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:28Drew Afualo?

  I can tell that sometimes you hear things and you're like, well, no wonder you think I'm fucking Yoda.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 26:34Drew Afualo?

  No fucking wonder, girl.

• 26:36Speaker 02

  All the time, all the time.

• 26:37Drew Afualo?

  I, I'll say something and people are like, wow, and then to me, I'm like, that feels like common sense. But I don't know, like, maybe I'm wrong. Like, sometimes I think like, maybe I'm, maybe, maybe I am Yoda.

• 26:51Speaker 02

  You are, little man, you are, you are, you are.

• 26:53Drew Afualo?

  And I think too, it is important, like you said, that like, people of all different identities are saying the same things over and over again because we've been so conditioned to take anything. Like, I've talked about with women, especially, anyone who's not a straight man. Like, but especially women, we were forced to develop empathy at a very young age. Whereas men get to decide if they wanna develop empathy later. Like, that's a choice they get to make. That's something that we're forced to develop. And so, I think a lot of times, women holds too much empathy. It's too much patience, it's too much graciousness. And sometimes, it's okay if you're unhappy and you're like, I don't deserve this, I'm gonna leave. Like, that's okay.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  It is okay.

• 27:34Drew Afualo?

  And, and the detaching.

• 27:35Speaker 02

  Necessary.

• 27:36Drew Afualo?

  Right, and the detaching, I think, is the hardest part, because then you have to come to terms with, it's like the, you know, the sunk cost fallacy theory. It's like, I've sunk in so much time at this point. If I let it go now, it's a waste of time, but you're just wasting more time.

• 27:52Speaker 02

  More time, if you keep saying, yeah.

• 27:54Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, and I've, I've even had women, like, even when I first blew up on TikTok initially, I've had women in their forties, fifties, tell me that they started watching me and they left their husbands, like, they realized, like, actually, I don't deserve this. Actually, I do deserve better.

• 28:09Speaker 02

  It's so necessary.

• 28:10Drew Afualo?

  Which is, and I'm sure you've gotten a lot of testimonies like that, too.

• 28:13Speaker 02

  Hundred percent. And I think talking about that whole time thing, and like, people understand that, like, just because you invested twenty years in some man,

• 28:21Drew Afualo?

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:22Speaker 02

  doesn't mean that you can't invest thirty more in yourself.

• 28:24Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  And I don't know why people don't see that math.

• 28:26Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, exactly. So they only see the first half.

• 28:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's not like you're about, you know, like, you're about to pass tomorrow or something, like, there is a lot, a lot of life left to live for you.

• 28:35Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 28:36Speaker 02

  And what would that world look like of investing in yourself in those years?

• 28:40Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  And again, I just don't think people know how to reframe their questions.

• 28:45Drew Afualo?

  Totally.

• 28:46Speaker 02

  And I wish that we could teach people from high school or middle school how to reframe.

• 28:50Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 28:50Speaker 02

  Instead of looking at one thing, how do we look at it from another perspective? Instead of looking at it as loss, how do I look at it? What am I gonna gain for myself? Like, what can we do here to make sure that we're reframing our lives?

• 29:01Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 29:01Speaker 02

  That we're the center of?

• 29:02Drew Afualo?

  That's what I feel like is a scarcity mindset, right?

• 29:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what I'm telling you.

• 29:06Drew Afualo?

  We live in abundance, exactly.

• 29:08Speaker 02

  I live in abundance.

• 29:08Drew Afualo?

  Exactly. And we talk about that a lot, the scarcity mindset, like, when I sense a scarcity mindset, I'm like, ooh.

• 29:15Speaker 02

  It makes me nervous.

• 29:16Drew Afualo?

  Bad energy.

• 29:17Speaker 02

  Makes me nervous.

• 29:18Drew Afualo?

  Right, I get a little chill. I'm like, ooh.

• 29:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:21Drew Afualo?

  You, you're operating from scarcity.

• 29:23Speaker 02

  Scarcity, girl.

• 29:23Drew Afualo?

  I do not operate from that.

• 29:24Speaker 02

  Either do I.

• 29:25Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 29:25Speaker 02

  I do not, never have.

• 29:27Drew Afualo?

  Never have either, me either. And I, and I remember when I started doing this show. Zero dollars, zero dollars, zero money. Um, but I wanted to do it because I, I wanted to obviously have something that expands longer than short form content. And I was like, that's okay, I'm, I'm gonna do it for no money. And I was whipping my Prius down here with my mom and sister in the car, driving myself back and forth, making zero dollars off this shit and I was filming all the time. And then with, when I was halfway through season two, before I, or no, before I even finished season one, um, I resigned my contract with my production company and then Spotify bought me.

• 30:01Speaker 02

  And got the coin.

• 30:01Drew Afualo?

  Season two, before even, yeah, and so I was like, abundance, abundance.

• 30:05Speaker 02

  Abundance, abundance, abundance.

• 30:06Drew Afualo?

  Every time something negative happens in, to me or in my career or whatever, I always think like abundance, like, when, when I give away, I will come get back.

• 30:14Speaker 02

  I want you and I to do a masterclass on success.

• 30:17Drew Afualo?

  We should.

• 30:18Speaker 02

  Because I'm telling you, the stories and the parallels are almost identical.

• 30:20Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 30:21Speaker 02

  And what I've learned in me talking to people who are successful,

• 30:24Drew Afualo?

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:25Speaker 02

  younger, older, same age.

• 30:27Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  Is these same things. I've told people before that there were, as I was journey, coming into hosting, I used to get up and go to Access Hollywood for free every morning at seven o'clock in the morning to do these segments for free, for like a year and a half. This is a big company, NBC, didn't give me a single coin. I used to go every morning, faithful, and then would get off of work and go to CNN, NHLN, right off of Sunset, and do the same thing again on one of those shows for free every night, for almost a year and a half. And people were like, what are you doing?

• 30:57Drew Afualo?

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:57Speaker 02

  And I was like, because I believe in abundance and I know this is going to lead to more and lead to more money.

• 31:03Drew Afualo?

  Me too.

• 31:03Speaker 02

  And there were so many people that I was like, come on, you should come, I could hook you up. You wanna be a host, you wanna be in TV, you wanna be in podcasting? Come through, I can hook you up. And they were like, no girl, I can't do, I'm not gonna show up every day for free.

• 31:18Speaker 02

  And I was like, I was like, okay, girl.

• 31:20Drew Afualo?

  Then you could show up nowhere in three years.

• 31:23Speaker 02

  Preach.

• 31:24Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 31:24Speaker 02

  Preach.

• 31:25Drew Afualo?

  Then show up nowhere.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  Show up nowhere then.

• 31:26Drew Afualo?

  And I'll show up to the show that I'm on.

• 31:28Speaker 02

  And show that I.

• 31:28Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 31:29Speaker 02

  Thank you. And so I think these are the lessons that sometimes these people forget, that's the sacrifice.

• 31:34Drew Afualo?

  That's so true.

• 31:35Speaker 02

  With the belief in abundance and believe that things are coming to you is so important.

• 31:38Drew Afualo?

  That's so true.

• 31:39Speaker 02

  The girls miss it.

• 31:40Drew Afualo?

  And I, you know, it's funny. Too is when I first started doing this.

• 31:42Speaker 02

  You're so brilliant.

• 31:43Drew Afualo?

  Right, thank you. So are you. As I was like growing this platform too, like when I was growing on just TikTok and I didn't have the show, I didn't have anything else. I remember I was getting a little like, I was getting a little down on myself, I think, not because of, I was having so much fun and I felt like I was really building something substantial. But I started seeing people get verified and get signed and I was, people that were, I had blown past in followers at that point. And I was kinda like, damn. And then I started thinking, like, I remember I was talking to my fiance and I was like, I don't know, like, what if people don't wanna work with me? Like, like, the way to make money is to work with brands and what if brands don't wanna work with me because what I do is controversial or whatever. You know, those moments of weakness?

• 32:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:24Drew Afualo?

  And then my man was like, I mean, I don't think what you do is controversial, so would you wanna work with someone who thought what you did was controversial?

• 32:31Speaker 02

  Reframing.

• 32:31Drew Afualo?

  And I said.

• 32:32Speaker 02

  Reframe.

• 32:33Drew Afualo?

  Not you being smarter than me. Alright, I was down for a second. Alright, I'm back, I'm back.

• 32:37Speaker 02

  But see, but look at that.

• 32:37Drew Afualo?

  It's, it's important.

• 32:38Speaker 02

  That's what I say about it. And like, if you don't have someone in your life that can help you to reframe when you're in a moment. It's, it's like, those are things I look for. Like, my best friend and I, we've talked about him already, he's here. We are stuck together for twenty-five years because when I need to reframe and I don't know, I can't see it, he's there and vice versa.

• 32:54Drew Afualo?

  Exactly.

• 32:55Speaker 02

  Like, when he thinks this moment is like, oh my gosh, he gets into that fear-based mindset. I immediately am able to pu- pull him out and say, no, let's reframe this, girl.

• 33:03Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 33:04Speaker 02

  Like, oh, maybe you leaving this, or maybe this, or would you wanna work with, or what it is to make yourself see what is better. And it's such an important lesson that people forget in like, success in life and relationships.

• 33:15Drew Afualo?

  Right, right.

• 33:16Speaker 02

  Reframe.

• 33:17Drew Afualo?

  And it applies, like you said, across all aspects of life. And I remember at the, I was like, no, you're totally right. Oh, I was down for a second.

• 33:23Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah, I'm back, I'm back.

• 33:25Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, and so I kept going, I kept going. And then I remember, it, it was like that in the beginning, whereas, you know, I think agencies could see the potential in just numbers, but they wanted to like, be sure they could market me, which is funny because the agent I'm still with is a woman and she, her name's Alex, we love her. But she really fought for me because her. Uh, company at the time like didn't wanna sign me cuz they were like, I don't think she's marketable like. And she's like, I'm telling you, she's going somewhere like and I wanna be a part of it like we have to get her now. And honestly, I've told people before, I'm like, I just got too big to ignore like it, they couldn't anymore.

• 34:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 34:02Drew Afualo?

  But when you lock in with.

• 34:03Speaker 02

  Talk your shit.

• 34:04Drew Afualo?

  Right, when you lock in.

• 34:06Speaker 02

  Talk your shit, man.

• 34:08Drew Afualo?

  And now where are they? Yeah, my front fucking door. All of a sudden. And it's funny too cuz I, I still have the same people on my team that were there at the beginning. And it's because they believed in me like they're like, I see something in you. And you know what's funny is.

• 34:20Speaker 02

  I swear you and I are from the same soul.

• 34:23Drew Afualo?

  We're, we truly are the same star.

• 34:25Speaker 02

  Literally.

• 34:26Drew Afualo?

  Right, two halves of it.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  Literally.

• 34:27Drew Afualo?

  It's so funny, I have a manager who's um, a cis straight white man, older white man. And it's important, it's important I, I mentioned that. Because I remember after I, I talked to him cuz he was like, I really wanna work with her. Um, telling my agent, so we had a meeting and at the very end of the meeting, he goes, I just wanna say. I know I'm a cis straight white man and I just want you to know. That I understand a lot of the privilege I have and I wanna be able to use it to fight for you like I wanna use, I believe in you. I think the world needs someone like you and I wanna be able to fight for you and I wanna put this behind you and push you forward.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 34:58Drew Afualo?

  And I was like, oh, I appreciate that. And after we hung up, I said, hire him.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  Okay, thank you. Hire him. Hire him. Hire. He got it. Got it. Got it.

• 35:05Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, you said the right things, King.

• 35:06Speaker 02

  Okay, you said it. Got it. Bitch, I'm with you. I'm with you. I've kept my same team from day one. And I have your Alex, I have my Tyler.

• 35:14Drew Afualo?

  Period. Look at us. That's what I'm saying. My I, never wrong.

• 35:17Speaker 02

  Never wrong. And I have not let, and people are always like, why are you so faithful? And I'm like, because when the people believe in you. You have to stick with them.

• 35:26Drew Afualo?

  Bitch, you're literally me. I had that exact conversation.

• 35:29Speaker 02

  Like, seriously, the girls don't get it. And then we keep rising because we're like, yes.

• 35:34Drew Afualo?

  Right. And then you have people who were like, well, don't you wanna sign with someone bigger? I'm like. I, you know what's funny is, I've had that conversation cuz I've, I've been approached many times to be poached, right?

• 35:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:45Drew Afualo?

  And um, I'm always like, no, I'm good. I'm happy. I'm like, very happy where I'm at. But I always say to them like, cuz they're like, well, you know, sometimes if you're, you know, with bigger place, bigger agencies, whatever. Um, there's a bigger pool, whatever. And I'm like, well. Because some of my other friends who are in the same industry, they're like, I really appreciate, because I always give recommendations. I always like, I'm like, oh, I know a girl. If you're, if they're awesome, I'll put them in contact with someone awesome.

• 36:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:10Drew Afualo?

  And so I'm like, I, one of my girlfriends was telling me, she's like, I appreciate it. Like, sometimes I feel like people in this industry are kind of like gatekeepy about stuff like that.

• 36:17Speaker 02

  No girl.

• 36:18Drew Afualo?

  And they're like, oh, like, I don't want you to sign to my agent because then I might not get as much work. And I told her, literally verbatim, I said, well, that's a scarcity mindset. I don't move like that.

• 36:26Speaker 02

  I don't move like that.

• 36:27Drew Afualo?

  And I said, and quite honestly, there could be a roster of 100. I'm gonna shine regardless.

• 36:30Speaker 02

  Thank you. Thank you. That's how I feel. So come through.

• 36:33Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, I said, that sounds, sounds like a euphem, girl.

• 36:35Speaker 02

  I'm always giving the connect because I'm like, girl, I'm not fearful.

• 36:37Drew Afualo?

  I said, yeah, me either.

• 36:38Speaker 02

  I'm not fearful. Like, girl, get yours. Like, even earlier, when you were like coming for the job, I was like, yeah, girl, come on. I literally, that was literally our exchange. Yeah, come on, let's go.

• 36:46Drew Afualo?

  Absolutely.

• 36:47Speaker 02

  Enough of us to be up here for the view, okay?

• 36:49Drew Afualo?

  I'm gonna shine regardless.

• 36:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:51Drew Afualo?

  So I'm not worried. To me, there's more than enough room up here. Like you said, there's more than enough room.

• 36:56Speaker 02

  There's not enough.

• 36:56Drew Afualo?

  That's why I'm never worried about hosting gigs either because like, obviously, I'm not like where you're at. Hopefully, I will be one day.

• 37:02Speaker 02

  You will be. And beyond.

• 37:03Drew Afualo?

  Thank you. I believe it.

• 37:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 37:05Drew Afualo?

  And my, a lot of my other friends host too. And I'm always so happy for them when they get the jobs. Because I'm like, there is no lack of, in my opinion.

• 37:14Speaker 02

  None.

• 37:14Drew Afualo?

  There's more than enough of us and we all have something different to offer. That's why I said, I'm gonna shine regardless. If I were you, I'd just keep up.

• 37:25Speaker 02

  I'm obsessed with you. You live here in LA?

• 37:28Drew Afualo?

  Yes, I do.

• 37:28Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh, we're gonna be friends.

• 37:29Drew Afualo?

  We have to. We have to. I, I do want to ask you just a couple more fun questions.

• 37:34Speaker 02

  Of course, anything.

• 37:35Drew Afualo?

  First, I would say, what would you say is one of your favorite seasons of Queer Eye you've ever filmed? I know you have, maybe if you have a fave, if you'd like to pick one.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  Kansas City. I got it already.

• 37:43Drew Afualo?

  Oh, really?

• 37:44Speaker 02

  Kansas City. Season three and four. It was my favorite.

• 37:47Drew Afualo?

  Really?

• 37:47Speaker 02

  Because we were in a space where people kind of knew what we were doing.

• 37:51Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 37:52Speaker 02

  But they didn't know the format yet.

• 37:54Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 37:54Speaker 02

  So everyone still was coming in very much like, so like, the people we help, it's beautiful. I love them. They're coming, they're genuine, but they've seen the show for nine seasons.

• 38:04Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 38:04Speaker 02

  And so they come in with expectation.

• 38:06Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, with like an understanding of it already.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, understanding. And also like, like they're coming in waiting, so it makes all of our jobs a little bit harder.

• 38:13Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 38:13Speaker 02

  Um, because we actually are doing the job, if you've heard when you throw up to JVN or Bobby, but um, we are literally. So it makes it a little bit more difficult because now I gotta figure out a new way to get in because you already have your speech prepared of what you think I wanna hear about what's going on on the inside. And so now I have to figure out like, through watching you, through paying attention to actions, seeing what words trigger you, see what's going on and find a brand new way.

• 38:35Drew Afualo?

  Totally.

• 38:36Speaker 02

  And I've gotten good at it. So now they'll come in with saying like, oh, I wanna talk about my mother and like this stuff. And I'm like, girl, that's not your issue, but of course, sure. And then I will help them guide it. And so season three, four, there was none of that.

• 38:47Drew Afualo?

  Right. So it was like right before everyone.

• 38:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was like, yeah, we were, we were successful, but it was like, they didn't know.

• 38:55Drew Afualo?

  So they came in real like blind.

• 38:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, they were kinda blind and it was great. And so I just remember those episodes just like, oh my gosh. I remember there was this guy and. He, I took him to dance studio and like, he thought we were gonna go dancing and I made him like, look at himself in the mirror in this real way. And I remember we won an Emmy off of that. I remember that's also the season that um, we had a guy who was um, paralyzed in a wheelchair. And I connected him with the man who shot him. And I mean, like, those are days when it was like, they did not know what was going on. He thought we were going to a restaurant. I'm like, oh, by the way, I invited the man who shot you here, so we can get you to get closure. And so I, I loved that season, season three and four.

• 39:32Drew Afualo?

  Cause they're very, just as impactful for you as it was for the hero, right? So what about your show? Like, what's your favorite thing, your favorite thing now about your new show?

• 39:42Speaker 02

  Um, well, what I love about my new show now is that people, because so I, I got into the space of like real people. And so when you're like, there's daytime talk shows that are celebrity based and then there's real base. And unfortunately, and I'm gonna be real with you. Celebrity, the, the real people based shows have gotten a bad rep.

• 40:00Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 40:00Speaker 02

  Because over the last 20 years, it's been about exploitation. It's about running off stage crazy.

• 40:07Speaker 02

  And that was hard for me because I almost didn't take it, the job, because I was like, I can't.

• 40:12Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 40:12Speaker 02

  I can't be.

• 40:13Drew Afualo?

  The fake stuff.

• 40:14Speaker 02

  In the fake stuff. I can't do that. And so, um. I was like, I gotta show people that I'm authentically still me.

• 40:23Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  And that someone can come with their real emotions.

• 40:26Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna judge your real emotions.

• 40:28Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 40:28Speaker 02

  But just know, girl, there's a moment that we gotta all come together and be real.

• 40:32Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, totally.

• 40:33Speaker 02

  We're gonna talk about really what's going on.

• 40:34Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 40:34Speaker 02

  We're gonna get some real advice.

• 40:36Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 40:36Speaker 02

  And we're gonna, you're real people.

• 40:38Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, like it's not for show.

• 40:39Speaker 02

  And I've, I've said that a million times on my show. I will say to them like, okay, these people might be here to watch it. I'm sitting in this seat because God has ordained me to be able to give you some advice and that's why you're here.

• 40:49Drew Afualo?

  True.

• 40:49Speaker 02

  And so what I love about it is that people are, it's caught, it's catching on more and more. Cause I remember season one, in the comments, it'd be like, is Cora or Jerry or Maury? And I'm like, girl, no shade to those white men. They were successful, girl. You know what I mean? But that's not my team.

• 41:03Drew Afualo?

  Do I look like them?

• 41:04Speaker 02

  Okay, I do not look like them, but you know, I get it. People wanna compare you. They want to compare, even though I tell people all the time, comparison is the thief of joy. And you're not gonna steal my joy by trying to compare me to someone else.

• 41:12Drew Afualo?

  Amen, bitch.

• 41:13Speaker 02

  Okay? And, um, and so now, it's so funny because now in season three, I don't see that anymore. And it's so good. It's like, people realize just because there are people with real emotions, that you're going to see me actively trying to make these people see that they can be better.

• 41:31Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 41:32Speaker 02

  Um, like I created this segment on my show called Unlock the Phone. Because in, in, um, in real people talk shows.

• 41:39Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 41:40Speaker 02

  It's always results driven.

• 41:41Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 41:42Speaker 02

  You know, and that's Ricky Lake's doing. You know, she created that motto and it worked. And so the rest of the girls picked it up. That's why you saw Maury giving paternity tests 24/7. And so I was like, okay, what is mine gonna be for this generation?

• 41:53Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 41:53Speaker 02

  And we know we're all on the phone. But I created it for transparency.

• 41:56Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  Because I'm like, in relationships, if there's no transparency, there's no trust.

• 42:00Drew Afualo?

  Absolutely.

• 42:01Speaker 02

  And once that trust is broken, then you're never gonna have a foundation to be able to build upon.

• 42:05Drew Afualo?

  Totally.

• 42:05Speaker 02

  And so I was like, we need to hire someone. So we have hired an FBI agent who actually can find anything up to five years deleted.

• 42:13Drew Afualo?

  Damn.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  We find everything. People come on the show, they think it's stupid or whatever.

• 42:17Drew Afualo?

  Or not real.

• 42:18Speaker 02

  Not real, whatever, and then, but what I did it for, and what happens is that these people come on, and then I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. This is no longer, he can gaslight you.

• 42:26Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 42:26Speaker 02

  He can no longer tell you what's going on.

• 42:28Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 42:28Speaker 02

  You have the facts in front of you.

• 42:29Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 42:30Speaker 02

  So now, it's a choice that you're gonna make, if you're gonna stay.

• 42:32Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 42:33Speaker 02

  And if you make this choice, just know, the complaining's gonna stop, and I'm gonna make sure all your friends and family know, stop, stop listening to complaining.

• 42:39Drew Afualo?

  Exactly.

• 42:39Speaker 02

  Because they have the facts.

• 42:40Drew Afualo?

  Exactly.

• 42:41Speaker 02

  They're making a choice to be here.

• 42:42Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 42:42Speaker 02

  Or you can use this to make a choice to say, I deserve more.

• 42:45Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 42:46Speaker 02

  And that's what I'm so thankful for in my talk show. I know that was a long answer, but it's just.

• 42:49Drew Afualo?

  No, I love it, though, and I think it's important.

• 42:50Speaker 02

  And I'm just hoping it continues to grow and get better in that way.

• 42:52Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, and I think that's important, too, especially because what you said, like, understanding the preconceived understanding of real-time talk shows, daytime talk shows, like, where people just believe all of it is fake, or all of it's staged, or whatever. I think you committing to, like, repaving that, and actually trying to make a real show with real emotions, I think that's so fucking cool.

• 43:12Speaker 02

  And if I can be honest with you, the only, the best thing for me is that I've had executives who believe in me.

• 43:16Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 43:17Speaker 02

  Like, there's been a changing of the guards and the executives at my network.

• 43:20Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 43:21Speaker 02

  Um, there's a woman by the name Dana Moran, I'm gonna shout, shout her out, she's like a senior vice president at NBC. And this woman has been committed to wanting to see people heal.

• 43:30Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 43:30Speaker 02

  And I think when you have executives that want to see change, it definitely then ends up changing.

• 43:36Drew Afualo?

  Absolutely.

• 43:37Speaker 02

  That's who's making the, cutting the check, girl, so if she wanted, I can do all I can on the stage, but if you are cutting a check and making something different, and it's been a, it's been such a blessing, because

• 43:46Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 43:47Speaker 02

  I'm trying to change this genre back to something that could be good and healthy.

• 43:50Drew Afualo?

  I, I think that's incredible.

• 43:50Speaker 02

  That is literally my goal.

• 43:52Drew Afualo?

  And that's honestly, no one, there is no one more fitted for the job than you.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  Thank you. Because girls forget that Oprah started in my genre.

• 43:58Drew Afualo?

  Right, exactly.

• 44:00Speaker 02

  And then she said one day, I'm gonna get out, and I'm gonna change it up.

• 44:03Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 44:03Speaker 02

  And all the rest of the girls followed, and the ones who left behind, girl, got trashed. And I'm like, no, girl, we can go back to this being civilized and real, and like, giving real advice, and like, we can really, you know, we can like.

• 44:14Drew Afualo?

  Girl, look what happened when Oprah left.

• 44:16Speaker 02

  Exactly, girl, like, we can go back, we don't have to all, you know, like. So that is the goal. So check with me again in like at season 10.

• 44:24Drew Afualo?

  I love that.

• 44:25Speaker 02

  If I'm not there, girl, be like, girl, you try, girl, get out.

• 44:27Drew Afualo?

  Dude, by season 10, you're gonna be like, you get a car, you get a car.

• 44:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay, girl.

• 44:32Drew Afualo?

  You're gonna be on that level at that point.

• 44:33Speaker 02

  Can I tell you something?

• 44:34Drew Afualo?

  Please do.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  Actually, what I've been doing, where I'm so proud of, and this is not been talked about much, but I'm gonna talk my shit.

• 44:39Drew Afualo?

  Please do.

• 44:39Speaker 02

  So there has never been a daytime talk show in my genre where the host has given out therapy. And in season one, the amount of money I paid for for therapy on show, it was on camera. I would say, and now that we have talked about this, I've given you a first step.

• 44:53Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 44:54Speaker 02

  Can I pay for therapy? Will you accept therapy?

• 44:56Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 44:56Speaker 02

  And bitch, I have had that network paying for therapy like fucking crazy.

• 44:59Drew Afualo?

  Period, bitch. I love that.

• 45:01Speaker 02

  So proud of that because there has never been a daytime talk show that has ever. So when you be like giving out cars, girl, I'm giving out therapy and I'm so excited about it.

• 45:09Drew Afualo?

  Car for the mind.

• 45:10Speaker 02

  Car for the mind. Girl, you're gonna drive yourself to where you need to go, but the girls are getting therapy and I'm just.

• 45:14Drew Afualo?

  That's so, and that's so important. Oh, my God. Therapy has changed my life. Like, it really has.

• 45:19Speaker 02

  And so for me, I'm like, most of the individuals who would call a daytime talk show.

• 45:22Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 45:23Speaker 02

  Would never have access or financially.

• 45:25Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, the opportunity too.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  Opportunity to do it. And I'm like, girl, if you're gonna come on here and you're going to show your story for the world.

• 45:31Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 45:32Speaker 02

  Like, yes, you got me and I'm gonna really help you, but girl, I wanna make sure you leave with some stuff. And there's times where girls are like, no, I'm not ready. I don't want it because they're afraid of it.

• 45:41Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 45:42Speaker 02

  But the amount of money I've had this network pay off for therapy, girl.

• 45:45Drew Afualo?

  Period, bitch. You better work.

• 45:47Speaker 02

  And also I make them keep it in.

• 45:49Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  Because I think it's important to see people of color.

• 45:51Drew Afualo?

  Absolutely.

• 45:52Speaker 02

  Accepting therapy on TV.

• 45:54Drew Afualo?

  That is very, that is very, very fucking important. And honestly, you should be so proud of that. I'm, I'm so proud to know that and to know you. I think that's fucking incredible and so important, especially for black and brown families.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 46:05Drew Afualo?

  It's like, we need that. We need to heal. Like, we need to move forward. We need to evolve and get better.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  Yes, you know.

• 46:11Drew Afualo?

  And I feel like I, I see therapy too a lot, like rehab, where it's like, it doesn't work unless you want it to work.

• 46:17Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 46:17Drew Afualo?

  And you can't force somebody to go.

• 46:19Speaker 02

  To go.

• 46:19Drew Afualo?

  You have to go because you want to and you want to like heal or get better or whatever it is you want to address and confront.

• 46:25Speaker 02

  Agreed.

• 46:26Drew Afualo?

  And I'm such a huge proponent of therapy. It's like crazy. I tell everyone, I'm like, if you have the means and the. Ability to do so, please do. And encour- encourage others, my entire families in therapy, like, we love it. And we all have different therapists and my therapist too, like, I always, the company I go through, um, they're always like, who do you feel most comfortable talking to? And I remember when I first did that meeting, it was like an older white woman and she was like, and it's okay if it's not someone who looks like me, like, that's okay. And I was like, okay, well, in that case, I'd like a woman of color.

• 46:54Speaker 02

  Well, because we need somebody who understands your experience.

• 46:56Drew Afualo?

  Exactly, and you feel comfortable talking to.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  And if I can be honest with you, not to go back to this, but to share, um, I think that's also why I have also found my success and found this lane and been doing well in my daytime talk show and been like surpassing numbers that they thought is because in my genre, it has always been white men talking to women of color. LGBT people.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  Families of color.

• 47:22Drew Afualo?

  Absolutely, yeah.

• 47:22Speaker 02

  We've seen how these white men, unfortunately, no, no shade to them. But they don't understand the struggles.

• 47:29Drew Afualo?

  No, I'm not at all.

• 47:30Speaker 02

  Someone isn't sitting in front of me, I'm always like, I get it. I understand what you're going through, I understand where you've been.

• 47:36Drew Afualo?

  And they believe you.

• 47:37Speaker 02

  They believe me and they know, they, most of them know my story. And so it makes it so much easier. I give apologies, I give hugs, I do things that like, you never saw the white men in this space before.

• 47:48Drew Afualo?

  Ever.

• 47:49Speaker 02

  Hugging these individuals and hugging their guests and saying, I see you, I understand you. And I, and so it, it does, like, when you go into therapy. Seeing somebody who looks like you gives you the ease to know, oh, girl. There's no judgment here, you actually want to see me.

• 48:03Drew Afualo?

  Exactly.

• 48:04Speaker 02

  Biggest pride and joy of my career right now, because I've shifted in this daytime talk show, has been people coming up to me and saying, thank you for what you do for our community, which I got that before in the LGBT community a lot. I got people saying of all races and genders, thank you for helping me. But now having black folks and people of color always coming up to me saying that just kind of makes me feel like.

• 48:24Drew Afualo?

  Right, different, purpose.

• 48:25Speaker 02

  Like the ancestors, like, girl, finally, we got you on it, girl, you're here.

• 48:30Drew Afualo?

  Exactly, you're like, I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be. Yeah, like, even when I've, I've had, like, because I'm Samoan, so like, when I have Samoan, women say that to me, like.

• 48:39Speaker 02

  You know it.

• 48:39Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, they. Say things like, I never thought I would see someone like myself doing what you do.

• 48:43Speaker 02

  It's powerful.

• 48:44Drew Afualo?

  It speaks to a different part of me. That's why I was like, it makes my little Grinch heart grow.

• 48:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, grow like this, like this, yeah, immediately.

• 48:50Drew Afualo?

  Pumping, you know what I'm saying?

• 48:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 48:51Drew Afualo?

  And I was like, don't tell anyone.

• 48:53Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 48:53Drew Afualo?

  Don't tell anyone, alright? I'm real soft, don't tell anyone.

• 48:56Speaker 02

  Okay, don't tell anyone.

• 48:57Drew Afualo?

  Okay, just to kind of like wrap us up.

• 48:59Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 48:59Drew Afualo?

  Um, what would you say is your best piece of advice for anyone who's maybe working on the self? And maybe like they feel like they're not completely finished yet, or maybe they feel like they are, but things aren't working out? Like, what would you say is your best piece of advice for them if they're trying to work on themselves and learn how to love themselves?

• 49:15Speaker 02

  Um, the best piece of advice is it needs to be a daily practice. And so, I usually don't give generic advice. It's one of my big things because I think that like, advice, I think there's people who know how to give advice that is clear and concise. You do.

• 49:30Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 49:31Speaker 02

  And then there's people who gives these generic, like, oh, blanket shit.

• 49:34Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 49:35Speaker 02

  But what I will say to someone is, to work on yourself is a daily thing.

• 49:40Drew Afualo?

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:40Speaker 02

  And I think people think it's a, oh, I did a little self-care routine. Watch the video.

• 49:45Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 49:46Speaker 02

  It is this way that I schedule, and then people know I'm a father, the way I scheduled my kids' schedule, the way I scheduled work,

• 49:53Drew Afualo?

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:53Speaker 02

  is the same way I schedule my daily care for my self-esteem and self-worth.

• 49:58Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 49:59Speaker 02

  It is a daily practice, and I schedule out an hour and a half to two hours. And this includes things that, just like when you go to work and you know you gotta get up for that meeting, you know I gotta do this. Same way you get up and you're like, the kids have to have this, the kids have to do this.

• 50:10Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 50:11Speaker 02

  The same way you know I'm in a relationship and we gotta have time for this and that.

• 50:14Drew Afualo?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:14Speaker 02

  The same way you do that, you have to schedule it out and figure out what it is ahead of time.

• 50:18Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 50:18Speaker 02

  It has to be daily.

• 50:19Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  You can give yourself two days off, just like at work.

• 50:22Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 50:22Speaker 02

  But you have to, and I would recommend I am doing that.

• 50:24Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 50:26Speaker 02

  Because if you don't practice your self-esteem and self-worth daily.

• 51:01Speaker 01

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• 51:33Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 51:35Speaker 02

  The rest of the influences from the world become louder than what you're practicing.

• 51:38Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 51:39Speaker 02

  And so, I would say to anybody who sees themselves in this space, sit down first and schedule you.

• 51:45Drew Afualo?

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:46Speaker 02

  Because until you start to schedule you.

• 51:48Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 51:49Speaker 02

  Everything else is going to be a priority.

• 51:50Drew Afualo?

  Right. Except you.

• 51:52Speaker 02

  Except for you.

• 51:52Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 51:53Speaker 02

  And I think that's a logical first step for people who are not there. And for even these people who think they do the work.

• 51:58Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 51:59Speaker 02

  You can schedule yourself more.

• 52:00Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  And then also really understand what areas you need to work on.

• 52:03Drew Afualo?

  Right. Yeah, being honest with yourself.

• 52:05Speaker 02

  Being honest with yourself.

• 52:06Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, that's why I've talked about autonomy a lot. Like I've said, like, I think autonomy is an important practice, too. It's to...

• 52:12Speaker 02

  Such an important practice.

• 52:12Drew Afualo?

  Understand, because like, this is me getting a little in the weeds, but like, I'll make it fast, I promise. But I remember, I was talking, like, I've always joked that there's always one relationship, like if I'm just talking about straight women, for example, there's always one, like, it's a really good one, where you're like, my eyes were fucking closed the entire time. Not one, I was like, every red flag, my eyes closed.

• 52:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:32Drew Afualo?

  And I was telling my mom this story the other day, because I was telling her the last, one of the worst relationships I've ever had, and you can't even call it that, because it wasn't a relationship, had no label on it, got all the perks of a girlfriend without actually calling her girlfriend.

• 52:45Speaker 02

  With a label.

• 52:46Drew Afualo?

  Yeah. Only saw me at night. Hmm. Um, yeah. Hmm, this is...

• 52:49Speaker 02

  This is... Yeah.

• 52:50Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, and I told my, long story short, it ended horribly. I cut it off, but before I cut it off, because I had, I was ignoring the signs, and even my friends were like, girl... Let's talk about this, right? Like even my own friends were telling me that and I'm always that friend for other girls. And I remember the real reason I was like, okay, for real, you can choke and drop dead was because I found out he had like a girlfriend of over 10 years, but she was eight and a half months pregnant and they were living together. At his parents' house and he would just disappear for days at a time.

• 53:21Speaker 02

  Girl, you could've been on the Cromwell Show.

• 53:22Drew Afualo?

  Girl, right. I could've been on Maury for that matter, shit.

• 53:26Speaker 02

  Okay, girl, okay, girl.

• 53:27Drew Afualo?

  I could've been on Jerry Springer, bitch.

• 53:28Speaker 02

  Okay, girl, like literally, girl.

• 53:29Drew Afualo?

  And I found that out because she called me. Like she hacked into his iPad and then called me. Then I was so distraught because I had no idea that was happening and then I literally told her like, we deserve better than this.

• 53:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:41Drew Afualo?

  I was like, tell her, we deserve better than this and your child deserves better than this. Like, I was telling her like, you should leave him. I was really like, I'll borrow my friend's car, I'll come move you. Like I was really trying to help her.

• 53:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:51Drew Afualo?

  And I hope she's doing well now. But after that, probably like a couple of days later, that guy texts me and sends me this long thing of like, you know, you're such a good person. Like, thank you for telling her about this.

• 54:03Speaker 02

  Oh, you fucking narcissist.

• 54:04Drew Afualo?

  Thank you for, right.

• 54:05Speaker 02

  Get the hell out of here, you psychopath.

• 54:07Drew Afualo?

  And he's like, yeah, I think you're so-

• 54:08Speaker 02

  Oh, that is such a trick, girl. When the girls do wrong and then they want to thank you for helping them see, girl? That is just a fucking, that is not healing, that is not growth, that, don't, none of y'all be fooled for that.

• 54:21Drew Afualo?

  No, it's a, it's a breadcrumb. He's hoping I'll pick up and carry.

• 54:24Speaker 02

  Because a narcissist will hope that you'll hold on to that and feel so cool and be like, oh my gosh.

• 54:27Drew Afualo?

  Because I was taking crumbs, like, and I, and at the time I remember reading it and I was so angry. I was like, fuck this guy, I'm not even going to respond. So I didn't. Then a few days after that, he texts me again and he goes, really? You're going to ignore me? Like,

• 54:41Speaker 02

  Thanks for telling me your true colors.

• 54:42Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, I thought we were closer than that. I thought you were more mature than that. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? And I told my mom, I remember when I got that second text. I wasn't even mad. I had the most sobering feeling in the world because I started thinking to myself, this man has no respect for me.

• 55:02Speaker 02

  None.

• 55:02Drew Afualo?

  And more importantly, thinks I have none for myself. And whose fault is that? Mine. Then I remember telling my mom, that was the most sobering. I remember thinking to myself, yeah, that part's on me. I'm gonna take that. Yeah, that part's on me bitch cuz like, this guy doesn't even know who I am. I was like, he has, he actually has no idea who I am. Because I haven't been myself. I've sacrificed so much of myself. This dude thinks that I'll just come whenever. I'll eat anything he gives me. Doesn't matter. And I wasn't even mad. I was, I felt free. I felt like when my, my shackles was like,

• 55:34Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 55:35Drew Afualo?

  Fucking free cuz I was like, at that point, I was like, you know what? I would rather die alone. I would actually rather be alone forever because I've always said like, I maybe feel lonely sometimes, but I'm not alone. Like I'm surrounded by love. Like platonic and, platonic love is just as important, if not more than romantic love to me.

• 55:53Speaker 02

  Well Hollywood has made us feel like it's not.

• 55:55Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 55:55Speaker 02

  It's the opposite. Hollywood has made you feel like, just cuz you have friends, I mean like Sex and the City had us all in a chokehold, girl. And it was like, she's surrounded by love, but she's,

• 56:04Drew Afualo?

  Talk about a bitch who eats breadcrumbs. I wanna tell that bitch to stand up.

• 56:07Speaker 02

  And like, surrounded by three girlfriends who are like, we love you and we will always show up for you. But you're not enough.

• 56:13Drew Afualo?

  But you're not showing up for her. You're not telling her to get, get her head out of Mr. Big's ass. You know what I mean? So I remember, I was like thinking, I was like, well, you know what? I would rather, I would rather be by myself. I'm, I'm not unhappy alone. Like I'm, being single doesn't mean I'm unhappy. And so I was like, man, fuck this shit. I'm gonna be by myself. I don't give a fuck cuz I dated casually throughout college, but this was like one that I felt was a little more serious. It wasn't, it was just more traumatic. But then, literally probably three or four months later, I met my fiance. Like I started, started dating him and I said, the ancestors, once I had the answer,

• 56:46Speaker 02

  You had it.

• 56:47Drew Afualo?

  Now you can have this.

• 56:49Speaker 02

  Can I remind that? Thank you for sharing that story because it reminds me of also like telling girls or anybody, the girls, like, reframing that idea of like, I can't be alone. I'm lonely.

• 56:59Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 56:59Speaker 02

  And like whatever. And understanding like when I talk about that daily, Practice.

• 57:03Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 57:03Speaker 02

  It's things like this where you say, okay, if I have a fear of being alone, what can I do to reframe to show myself that I'm not alone?

• 57:10Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 57:11Speaker 02

  What can I, what activity can I do, one thing to date for myself that I'm doing by myself where I could find joy in it? Because I, sometimes I always look at people who are like, I'm too afraid to go to dinner or movie by myself. Got it. That's your fear.

• 57:22Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 57:23Speaker 02

  But there's somewhere else that you can go that you'll still completely feel happy.

• 57:27Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 57:28Speaker 02

  You gotta search for that place.

• 57:29Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 57:30Speaker 02

  Because I'm a girl that like, I can't go on a trip by myself. I don't, I don't wanna do it. I need a buddy. I need a pal. But I definitely can go to symphony by myself.

• 57:37Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 57:37Speaker 02

  Go to a ballet by myself.

• 57:38Drew Afualo?

  Period.

• 57:39Speaker 02

  And I find myself being so happy.

• 57:41Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 57:42Speaker 02

  And finding myself feel so fulfilled. And those are moments when I used to wake up to myself and be like, girl, you're not that girl that has to be alone. He ha- has to have somebody.

• 57:49Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 57:49Speaker 02

  Be alone. And you can find joy and walk out of there smiling and having cute little conversations and feel so fulfilled. So the work that you have to do in reframing is that type of work.

• 57:59Drew Afualo?

  Absolutely.

• 57:59Speaker 02

  Where do you see yourself, if that's the fear, where do you see that maybe that fear won't apply so that you can do that work on yourself? So you can see what you deserve, so you can wake up.

• 58:08Drew Afualo?

  You know? Exactly, exactly. And boy, did I. And I woke up and I, I literally, I felt truly like the ancestors were like, okay, now you're ready.

• 58:15Speaker 02

  You're ready.

• 58:16Drew Afualo?

  Real love. Like to have actual love, love that actually means something like, like you said, I think when, when people on your show would say, oh, but I love him. You're like, I don't think you understand.

• 58:25Speaker 02

  What love is.

• 58:25Drew Afualo?

  What love is or what it's supposed to feel like.

• 58:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:27Drew Afualo?

  Cause it's not supposed to hurt you. It's supposed to heal you in a lot of ways.

• 58:30Speaker 02

  I tell so many girls on my show, write down, before you come out on my stage, go write down a fucking list of what you think love means. And I've had a couple read their definition.

• 58:37Drew Afualo?

  Really?

• 58:37Speaker 02

  And they don't know. And most people don't know. Most people do not know.

• 58:41Drew Afualo?

  Right. And that's crazy. Cause we're in, like, in this undying pursuit of it without even truly understanding what it is or what it feels like. And what makes, what it feels like to us.

• 58:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:50Drew Afualo?

  Right? But anyways, man, we're getting preachy.

• 58:55Speaker 02

  Preach, girl. We're gonna preach. Hold on, I heard that we had something from social media I wanna talk about.

• 58:59Drew Afualo?

  Okay, wait. Okay, we'll do, I'll do two, yeah. Okay, I'll do the second one. No, it's totally fine, cuz we're talking about, honestly, we're talking about playbook tips, but that is what typically we've been doing. We're giving advice, obviously. Okay, let me read this second one to you, okay? So it says, "This is a clip from a podcast hosted by a husband and wife duo. The husband says, "I'm about to give you all the biggest relationship advice you've ever heard."

• 59:21Speaker 02

  Oh, girl, I know this shit.

• 59:22Drew Afualo?

  And you know, it's what's-

• 59:24Speaker 02

  Sex.

• 59:24Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, have more sex.

• 59:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, even if she says no, have more sex.

• 59:28Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, his wife-

• 59:29Speaker 02

  How Trump of you, sir.

• 59:30Drew Afualo?

  For real, for real. His wife laughs nervously, says sometimes she's not in the mood after a busy day, or doesn't feel like it at certain times of the month, and the husband says, "You can have twenty things on your day that you don't wanna do, just make sure having sex with your husband is all right."

• 59:42Speaker 02

  So again, she said, "Well, something that I want to," and he said, "Doesn't matter." Doesn't matter.

• 59:47Drew Afualo?

  I don't give a fuck what you want.

• 59:48Speaker 02

  I don't give a fuck what you want. Like, yeah, sounds like sound advice to me, fucking weirdo.

• 59:54Drew Afualo?

  He's like, "Well, I'm talking about what will help me."

• 59:56Speaker 02

  Like, that's the type of people that like, I cringe, first of all.

• 1:00:00Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 1:00:00Speaker 02

  Because I'm like, you're in a relationship and you're making, this is your wife, and you're making a commitment to her,

• 1:00:05Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 1:00:06Speaker 02

  and your idea of a commitment to her is saying, "I disregard what you feel because on the top of your list must be what I want."

• 1:00:12Drew Afualo?

  Exactly. Well, he's like, "Well, asking you is kinda just like, just a filler."

• 1:00:17Speaker 02

  A filler.

• 1:00:17Drew Afualo?

  He's like, "It's small talk."

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  It's small talk, yeah. Like, we don't really need it, you know what I mean?

• 1:00:21Drew Afualo?

  Well, and also I always think too, when, when you're talking about heterosexual relationships, especially, they always joke about shit like this, "Oh, she never wants to have sex, I do." I always think, like, when women are fulfilled, they're good. Like, they'll have sex with you, yeah, all the time. Like, if they feel fulfilled in every other area of their relationship, you're not gonna be able to get them off you, bitch, like, to be quite honest with you.

• 1:00:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:42Drew Afualo?

  That's why I'm like, so clearly if she's not having sex with you, something else is missing.

• 1:00:45Speaker 02

  Something else is missing.

• 1:00:46Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 1:00:47Speaker 02

  But also, in, in correlation, I tell my guy friends- Like, and, you know, this is a quick tip for men who are listening there. Most men don't understand intimacy and sex anyway. And so they look at sex as sort of this transactional act versus like what true sex is, is when there's real intimacy.

• 1:01:02Drew Afualo?

  Exactly.

• 1:01:03Speaker 02

  And most men are afraid of their own intimacy, that they will never have that. So of course, a statement like, "Well, she should just be giving me sex," is because this is transactional.

• 1:01:11Drew Afualo?

  Exactly.

• 1:01:12Speaker 02

  But when you have real intimacy and real men who understand what lovemaking is, and what it is to connect with somebody.

• 1:01:17Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 1:01:18Speaker 02

  And this is both romantic and all. It could be aggressive, but when there's intimacy involved, it makes it better. And so I would encourage men to like, really understand intimacy.

• 1:01:27Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 1:01:28Speaker 02

  Like, most men, and then we'll give you a tip, when they, um, you don't mind I know this, but most men don't even touch themselves when they masturbate. Other than their-

• 1:01:37Drew Afualo?

  Other than their dick, yeah.

• 1:01:38Speaker 02

  Other than their dick.

• 1:01:38Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:39Speaker 02

  They don't touch themselves.

• 1:01:39Drew Afualo?

  Interesting.

• 1:01:40Speaker 02

  They don't touch themselves.

• 1:01:41Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:41Speaker 02

  Because the focus is here, here, here, and I'm done.

• 1:01:45Drew Afualo?

  Like a child.

• 1:01:47Speaker 02

  Like a child.

• 1:01:48Drew Afualo?

  Like a prepu- like a pubescent child, literally.

• 1:01:50Speaker 02

  And I'm like, "Yo, how about when you're doing this, not only, and if you're engaging and watching porn, which is fine, how about you think to yourself like, 'Oh my gosh, how intimate this would be with like, I was with my girl, if I was with my partner,' like, touch yourself like in these ways, like-

• 1:02:04Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:04Speaker 02

  Because what happens is that you get more involved with your body, now your mind is connected to the person that you're engaging with.

• 1:02:09Drew Afualo?

  T, yeah.

• 1:02:10Speaker 02

  And so, and most men don't know how to do this. So you get stupid ass motherfuckers who say shit like, "Fucking sex has to be on the priority of the list, no matter you want it or not." It's like, "Girl..."

• 1:02:19Drew Afualo?

  And you're probably bad at it on top of that.

• 1:02:20Speaker 02

  And you're probably bad at it on top of that.

• 1:02:22Drew Afualo?

  I know, because you know, you think about-

• 1:02:22Speaker 02

  Because you don't even know your own body.

• 1:02:23Drew Afualo?

  Exactly. And that's so, T, and they're unwilling to do anything else other than putting their dick inside women.

• 1:02:28Speaker 02

  Because it's transactional.

• 1:02:29Drew Afualo?

  Exactly. That's why I was like, "And none of you are eaters? Fuck out of my face."

• 1:02:32Speaker 02

  Get the fuck out of here. Get the fuck out of here. You know what I mean?

• 1:02:34Drew Afualo?

  You're wasting my fucking time. Fuck out of my face.

• 1:02:36Speaker 02

  I'm gonna give you a tip that I gave a couple recently, and it's worked.

• 1:02:38Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 1:02:39Speaker 02

  I tell couples, like, watch each other masturbate.

• 1:02:42Drew Afualo?

  Tea.

• 1:02:43Speaker 02

  And.

• 1:02:43Drew Afualo?

  That is very intimate.

• 1:02:44Speaker 02

  And, and, and but also say to your partner, especially for males.

• 1:02:48Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 1:02:48Speaker 02

  Unfortunately, sometimes you gotta give these men like, act like little boys, like, let's teach you. Um, not always, girl, but like sometimes, but say like, like, while you're doing that, think about how that good would be if I was touching you there.

• 1:02:59Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:59Speaker 02

  If I would do this, let them get in the mindset of practicing intimacy with themselves.

• 1:03:03Drew Afualo?

  That's tea.

• 1:03:04Speaker 02

  And it will help the sex life.

• 1:03:05Drew Afualo?

  Right, and you're, and you're so, you're so right too, cuz it's like, it's also seen as like a taboo thing. Unless it's just the fucking circle jerk.

• 1:03:14Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh, yeah.

• 1:03:15Drew Afualo?

  It's like a, it's, has to be that very physical, very fast act.

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  Thing, yeah.

• 1:03:19Drew Afualo?

  But anything else, they get uncomfortable, that's where I'm kinda like, I thought you were all about fucking.

• 1:03:23Speaker 02

  Exactly, I thought you about fucking, yeah, exactly, I thought you were all about it, oh, and now you're all.

• 1:03:26Drew Afualo?

  Oh, and now everyone's nervous and embarrassed all of a sudden.

• 1:03:29Speaker 02

  You know how many like, you know how many straight guys I know that like literally hide that they masturbate from their partner? Like, they're like kids. It blows my fucking mind that grown men like wait till their partner walks out the door to fucking jack off. I'm like, what's wrong with you? Have a conversation with your partner about the fact that like, make this a thing that could be intimate, like, I'm going to, like, this could be sexy, join me, like. I, I can't tell you how many grown men wait for the door to lock to go do this. Like, I'm fifteen years old, I gotta wait, like.

• 1:04:01Drew Afualo?

  They've been doing forever, yeah.

• 1:04:02Speaker 02

  Forever, I gotta wait, oh, you're gone, I gotta like go in the bathroom, na, na, na, na, na. Like, get it fucking together, man. Like, talk about sex and intimacy in a new way.

• 1:04:10Drew Afualo?

  No, for real.

• 1:04:11Speaker 02

  So that you don't end up being somebody who says stupid shit like sex is on top of the list and if you give it to me whether or not, you know what I mean?

• 1:04:16Drew Afualo?

  And it's also like, it's not even enjoyable, like, for either of you. Like, and I also think too, I'm like, when men act like that, obviously their misogynist, they'll see women as equals, but even if they.

• 1:04:27Speaker 02

  Exactly, oh, no, a hundred percent, let's start there, yeah, of course, yeah.

• 1:04:29Drew Afualo?

  But even if they did, and they're just talking about the act of sex right there, like, it's very like. I I don't understand why you wouldn't want to make your partner come. You know what I'm saying? Like, they don't care about that. They're like, oh, I don't care about that. Well, then it sounds like you're bad at it.

• 1:04:44Speaker 02

  You're bad at it. You're bad at it.

• 1:04:45Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, you sounds like that's a skill issue, buddy.

• 1:04:48Speaker 02

  Bad at it.

• 1:04:49Drew Afualo?

  Right? So that's why I'm like, and women are supposed to be into that?

• 1:04:51Speaker 02

  But see, for the flip side is that when I tell men, I'm also like, okay, you should have be more active in wanting to make your partner come and make your woman come. But equally, I tell men, you should hold off on coming.

• 1:05:03Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 1:05:04Speaker 02

  Because, again, intimacy, for right now, again, the act for most men is transactional that it's like, I need to orgasm.

• 1:05:10Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:10Speaker 02

  Where it's like, and thus, once you get yours, you're not worried about her.

• 1:05:14Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:14Speaker 02

  So how about you wait?

• 1:05:15Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:16Speaker 02

  Practice like edging.

• 1:05:17Drew Afualo?

  Edging yourself, yeah.

• 1:05:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, doing these things. And like, I'm no sex expert, but I understand the emotional attachment and the mental attachment.

• 1:05:23Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:24Speaker 02

  What happens when you say, I'm gonna be committed to not orgasm quickly. To making this a moment that is more intimate, to making it more about like me touching and feeling, and then it translates.

• 1:05:34Drew Afualo?

  And about us.

• 1:05:35Speaker 02

  Into about us. It translates into you and your woman, yeah.

• 1:05:38Drew Afualo?

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

• 1:05:39Speaker 02

  God, he's mad.

• 1:05:40Drew Afualo?

  Oh, girl, they make me sick. They're giving me gray hairs for real.

• 1:05:43Speaker 02

  Seriously, girl.

• 1:05:45Drew Afualo?

  Yeah, so it says, ladies, we've been telling you this for so long, it's simple. And the next one says, when the sex stops, the relationship goes downhill. It's, if it stops, it's probably been downhill for a while. That's just, that's just what alerts them.

• 1:05:55Speaker 02

  It just didn't stop. Yeah, like, you're just, you've been in a fucking rut for a while.

• 1:05:59Drew Afualo?

  Right. It's like, no, you're just noticing it.

• 1:06:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, listen.

• 1:06:02Drew Afualo?

  Well, you know what?

• 1:06:03Speaker 02

  Roommate syndrome is real, girl. The girl's turning into roommates real quick.

• 1:06:07Drew Afualo?

  Girl, and that's why I was like, what are we, college roommates? We're living in a dorm at this point.

• 1:06:11Speaker 02

  Thank you, thank you.

• 1:06:12Drew Afualo?

  And at that point, I want a room by myself. I don't need you in here.

• 1:06:15Speaker 02

  Well, you need to graduate out of that situation.

• 1:06:17Drew Afualo?

  Exactly.

• 1:06:18Speaker 02

  Seriously.

• 1:06:18Drew Afualo?

  Move on with my life.

• 1:06:19Speaker 02

  Move on.

• 1:06:20Drew Afualo?

  Well, thank you so much for coming.

• 1:06:21Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me.

• 1:06:23Drew Afualo?

  You're incredible. I'm obsessed with you.

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  You are incredible. I am going to continue to see you grow. And what I would hope for one day, if I could ask, is that when you are the most famous talk show host in the world, that in your will, you will put that you want your ashes on my lawn.

• 1:06:40Drew Afualo?

  Yes, the circle of life, deal. The circle of life. It's not, it's not just talking about it.

• 1:06:44Speaker 02

  Done, done, done.

• 1:06:46Drew Afualo?

  That's the circle of life.

• 1:06:47Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:06:48Drew Afualo?

  Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm fucking obsessed with you. I think you're incredible. My twin, for real. Twin, look at us, twin.

• 1:06:57Drew Afualo?

  Okay, well, for those who were literally born yesterday, I'm sure, and maybe don't follow you, where can everybody find you?

• 1:07:03Speaker 02

  At Karamo. See, when that name is Karamo, girl.

• 1:07:06Drew Afualo?

  Right.

• 1:07:06Speaker 02

  Karamo, girl.

• 1:07:07Drew Afualo?

  Exactly.

• 1:07:07Speaker 02

  Facebook, Instagram, name of the talk show, girl. She's turning into Beyonce, she's a one-name artist now.

• 1:07:11Drew Afualo?

  Amen, amen. I've never seen you and Beyonce in the same room, so how am I to know?

• 1:07:15Speaker 02

  We could be the same person. You know, we're both born in Houston, Texas, at the same time.

• 1:07:19Drew Afualo?

  Okay, well, now I'm starting to think.

• 1:07:21Speaker 02

  Kelly and Roland are our friends, so maybe I am Beyonce. I don't know.

• 1:07:26Drew Afualo?

  Who knows?

• 1:07:26Speaker 02

  I did it on Lipstick Battle.

• 1:07:28Drew Afualo?

  Okay.

• 1:07:29Speaker 02

  And I killed it.

• 1:07:30Drew Afualo?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:30Speaker 02

  And maybe that was me trying to let the world know.

• 1:07:33Drew Afualo?

  You're dropping Easter eggs.

• 1:07:34Speaker 02

  This y'all go gagging 20 years when y'all find out I'm Beyonce.

• 1:07:39Drew Afualo?

  That would be crazy.

• 1:07:40Speaker 02

  In male drag right now.

• 1:07:43Drew Afualo?

  Crazy, that would be insane. I'm, I, and do you have anything else you want to promote?

• 1:07:47Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 1:07:48Drew Afualo?

  No?

• 1:07:48Speaker 02

  You can watch Queer Eye, new season comes out December 11th. You can watch Karamo's show nationwide, or go on TikTok and Instagram or YouTube, girl.

• 1:07:55Drew Afualo?

  Period, love.

• 1:07:56Speaker 02

  The clip's free popping.

• 1:07:56Drew Afualo?

  Karamo's everywhere, obviously, and I hope you, I can't wait to see you invade so many more other white-driven spaces.

• 1:08:02Speaker 02

  Okay, thank you.

• 1:08:03Drew Afualo?

  I'm rooting for it. I'm praying on it, actually. And thank you all so much for joining us on this episode of the comment section. Don't forget to follow Karamo on literally everything, I'm sure most of you are, obviously, but if you're not, make sure you check out Karamo's show, make sure you check out Queer Eye, and don't forget, new episodes of the comment section drop every Wednesday. You can stream the audio on all streaming platforms, but the video lives for free and exclusively on our favorite platform, Spotify. So, thank you so much for joining us, thank you to my amazing guest, Karamo, and I'll see you next week. Bye.

• 1:09:06Speaker 01

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