Super Bowl Snacks, Burger Hype, and the Internet’s Case Against Opening a Restaurant!!

The Super Bowl is just over a week away so Adrienne and Joe try the latest viral snack, Reverse Jalapeño Poppers. They also debate some of your favorite Super Bowl snacks and traditions (ranch or blue cheese?) before the big game arrives. Plus, we discuss: A listener’s “Salted” Take: Is it ever worth taking a special trip just to try a new burger? We respond to the latest viral video that tells people never to open a restaurant Is it harder than ever to open a restaurant? Still worth the trouble? Adrienne’s Walk In Confession involves measuring incorrectly and failing to wash the herbs Follow the show: @chefscutpod Follow Adrienne: @chefadriennecheatham Follow Joe: @insta.flamm

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Adrienne Cheatham?

  This week on the chef's cut, we are trying the latest viral Super Bowl snack. Hmm, hmm, game on. I'm forking the hell out of this. Is a burger ever worth a special trip? I don't know if I would make a trip just for a burger. And we answer the question, why would anybody actually want to open a restaurant? What brand of weird are you?

• 0:22Joe Flamm?

  Yes, it's fantastic.

• 0:25Adrienne Cheatham?

  Well, Joe, I think there is a special time of year coming up that I'm a huge fan of, mainly for the food, Super Bowl.

• 0:36Joe Flamm?

  Super Bowl?

• 0:37Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, right around the corner. Oh, look at the shirt, the Bears. An epic, epic season. Oh, my God. I think Pope Leo did it for us, may I say.

• 0:50Joe Flamm?

  The Pope. But, yeah, it's Super Bowl, and I think Super Bowl is one of the, like, it's such a fun food one, right? Because it's not, you know what I mean, like, Thanksgiving is a very serious food holiday. Christmas, you know what I mean, whatever, you know, holidays you're celebrating, those are very serious food holidays.

• 1:07Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 1:07Joe Flamm?

  I feel the Super Bowl is like a food holiday, but it's like the most fun one because it's like, nobody's like, okay, I'm doing a prime rib.

• 1:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 1:15Joe Flamm?

  Uh, you know what I mean, with, you know, uh, palm souffle.

• 1:18Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 1:19Joe Flamm?

  It's like.

• 1:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  I'm doing slow cooker chili.

• 1:21Joe Flamm?

  Right. It's like, what can I buffalo?

• 1:23Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes.

• 1:24Joe Flamm?

  You know what I mean? It's like, what can we make buffalo? You know, that hasn't been buffaloed before.

• 1:30Adrienne Cheatham?

  I like using buffalo as a verb. What can I buffalo? I fucking.

• 1:33Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, that's what I mean, though, but I think that's just like, basically, you know, like, if you had a menu meeting for Super Bowl, it would just be a whiteboard that said, what can we buffalo?

• 1:41Adrienne Cheatham?

  I love that. And I think.

• 1:43Joe Flamm?

  Or what can we turn into a dip?

• 1:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  You can buffalo just about anything.

• 1:48Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 1:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  If you really put your mind to it. I'm here for it.

• 1:52Joe Flamm?

  If you believe, if you believe you can buffalo.

• 1:57Adrienne Cheatham?

  So for fork it or forget it today, Joe, I want to do a little bit of Super Bowl food. And there is a recipe, you know, I'm like into these viral recipes now after the filo cake, because that was the first one that I tried that was good. So I found another recipe that's got another four point something million views.

• 2:16Joe Flamm?

  Okay.

• 2:16Adrienne Cheatham?

  So Joe, the Super Bowl snack that I'm seeing that I really want to try because I actually think it's going to come out fucking delicious is reverse jalapeno poppers.

• 2:26Joe Flamm?

  Oh, I am a jalapeno popper fan in all forms because there's the jalapeno popper is it's a great vessel, right? There's a million ways to chop it up.

• 2:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  So this recipe is kind of like a jalapeno popper stuffed into my favorite ingredient. One thing, and okay, full disclosure, I always have puff pastry in my freezer. There is never a day that goes by that you will not open up my freezer and I have a box of puff pastry. It's it's the workhorse. It is. It is a true workhorse. If you need to make something on the fly, people come over, you need a snack to bring somewhere, puff pastry, whatever, sweet or savory. That's like my my secret weapon. But this is kind of like a cheese straw jalapeno popper style.

• 3:10Joe Flamm?

  So you're making jalapeno popper Wellingtons?

• 3:13Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, God, that sounds, yeah, that's essentially what you're doing is a jalapeno popper wellie. Oh, I need to do that like for real for Super Bowl, but it's gorgeous.

• 3:25Joe Flamm?

  Let's see what you got. You gotta hold that up higher.

• 3:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  I don't want him to slide onto my.

• 3:31Joe Flamm?

  Yeah. All right. So you folded the jalapeno. What else you got there bacon?

• 3:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah. So you chop up and, you know, pre-cook your bacon, chop up your jalapenos, grate your cheddar. I don't like to use pre-shutted cheese because it has that flowery coating on it so they don't stick together. And then it really affects the way that it melts. So I like to to just grate my cheddar from a good old fashioned like Wisconsin block.

• 3:57Joe Flamm?

  I'm in a garden over there.

• 4:00Adrienne Cheatham?

  But, you know, store bought shredded is fine.

• 4:02Joe Flamm?

  If you can't, if you can't grate your own.

• 4:04Adrienne Cheatham?

  Then store bought is fine, but you roll out your puff pastry, you put everything on one half of the dough, fold it over, cut it into strips, egg wash it, and then twist them and bake them. So.

• 4:18Joe Flamm?

  You cooking those jalapenos first or you raw dogging them?

• 4:20Adrienne Cheatham?

  I raw dog. I went straight raw dog because I like a little crunch. I think that's gonna be a nice like it. They'll still cook because you bake them at like four twenty-five for puff pastry, but I think that'll still add a nice grassy, fresh element with all the heavy ingredients like cheese, bacon, puff pastry that are all coat your palate. I think that'll give me something kind of fresh. Hmm.

• 4:44Joe Flamm?

  You go no dip? You just going, you just going straight, straight straw?

• 4:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  Hmm hmm. Hmm hmm hmm hmm. Game on. I'm forking the hell out of this.

• 4:57Joe Flamm?

  It looks really good, but I think you need a dip. I think you need a dip. Is that, that's the one thing I'm gonna say. I feel like it needs, it needs a dip of some sort. And I think the enthusiasts are gonna say you need ranch.

• 5:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  Hmm.

• 5:09Joe Flamm?

  And I'm not a ranch person per se.

• 5:12Adrienne Cheatham?

  What? Who are you?

• 5:14Joe Flamm?

  I didn't say I hate ranch. I just said it's not like my jam. I don't need it.

• 5:18Adrienne Cheatham?

  You can ranch anything, just like you can buffalo anything. You can ranch anything, but you're right. I think a dip for this would be really good. Something like cooling, like a sour cream base, you know, kind of thing to like freshen it up because it is a little rich. Puff pastry, bacon, cheddar. It is a little rich, but it is wildly delicious.

• 5:38Joe Flamm?

  It sounds really good. I would, I would fork it. I would fork it. I'm never gonna make it because I don't have puff pastry in my freezer and I'm not gonna put puff pastry in my freezer. And like, that's like too much of baking something on my day off, which I'm not interested in.

• 5:52Adrienne Cheatham?

  You'll make pancakes every morning, but you won't bake puff pastry?

• 5:55Joe Flamm?

  That is correct. Maybe I'll make a jalapeno popper pizza for Super Bowl. Classic Roman jalapeno popper pizza.

• 6:03Adrienne Cheatham?

  Nothing more classic than that. This is phenomenal. I love Super Bowl snacks. Like, that's kind of my jam. That's what I'm, that's really what I'm here for.

• 6:11Joe Flamm?

  My favorite weird one is, it's actually a Missy Robbins recipe where you take a small salami and you bake it in like really cheap maple syrup. Like, you can't get nice stuff. It's, it's like really cheap, like the Jewel brand watery stuff. And you bake it at like 425 for like 25 minutes till it's just like it absorbs it. Then you slice it and you serve it with like toast points and like ground brown mustard. And it is so delicious.

• 6:39Adrienne Cheatham?

  I am today years old. I have never heard of such a thing. Are you kidding me?

• 6:44Joe Flamm?

  It's so good. It was Tony Montuano told me about. He said she made it for him when the last time the Bears played in the Super Bowl, actually.

• 6:50Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh.

• 6:51Joe Flamm?

  Um, and he was like, it's phenomenal. And so like, it was in her first cookbook, actually. And I was like, oh, I have to make this. And so I made it for the Super Bowl one year. It's so good.

• 7:00Adrienne Cheatham?

  Really?

• 7:01Joe Flamm?

  So good. I ate like a whole salami. It was, you know.

• 7:04Adrienne Cheatham?

  How big is a small salami? Cause I'm only familiar with like a three foot long, four to five inch thick.

• 7:11Joe Flamm?

  It's like the length of like a Midwest hand. Um, and it's, you know what I mean? No, like a real one. Um, like, you know, it's like, it's like, like thick is like your microphone. You know what I mean? It's like you've got a good, you know, like not as quite as big as like a real like Wisconsin summer sausage where, you know, they make them in like shapes of footballs and shit. But it's.

• 7:32Adrienne Cheatham?

  Who doesn't love a summer sausage?

• 7:33Joe Flamm?

  Well, yeah, it's, it's, I mean, it's something that I'm like.

• 7:37Adrienne Cheatham?

  Wow.

• 7:38Joe Flamm?

  Gotta be on the table.

• 7:39Adrienne Cheatham?

  I might try that this year. That sounds really cool. I mean, I, I love salami. I like maple syrup.

• 7:46Joe Flamm?

  I love maple syrup.

• 7:47Adrienne Cheatham?

  And I like, you know, brown mustard. So, and toast points. I mean, come on, like, that's, that's right up my alley. Yeah.

• 7:54Joe Flamm?

  That's a win.

• 7:55Adrienne Cheatham?

  Tell Missy I'm making her recipe. I want to intro a new segment. How do you feel about that?

• 8:01Joe Flamm?

  Well, it depends. Is this a new segment that you have a name for that I'm not going to approve?

• 8:07Adrienne Cheatham?

  Uh, depends. It depends on your mood today. Sometimes you're like wildly salty and sometimes you're like friendly. So if Joe is feeling friendly today, I think you'll like it.

• 8:18Joe Flamm?

  I feel friendly every day.

• 8:21Adrienne Cheatham?

  Nah, I disagree, but I want to call this segment salted. This is about Chef's Cut Nation listeners who have sent us questions. They sent us comments and some of them we're going to get to more later. We're going to answer these questions, but people have some hot takes. They feel some kind of way about certain things and I want to read you one that came through IG. You ready?

• 8:44Joe Flamm?

  I'm ready for this. I enjoy this. I like this idea of giving the people, giving the people a little pulpit.

• 8:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  I know, right? We want to hear their thoughts and we want to respond. So this is one from one of our Chef's Cut listeners. What do you think of this salted take? Agree or disagree? Nobody should ever give the advice, you've got to go here for this burger. I've tried almost every good burger out there and some of them are great, but I've never actually thought that it's worth taking a trip to a restaurant just for the burger. For example, Red Hook Tavern is famous for their burger, but the long commute, four hour wait time left me underwhelmed. Minetta Tavern, another great restaurant, but the burger was overhyped.

• 9:28Adrienne Cheatham?

  At the end of the day, even the best burger isn't good enough to justify a dedicated trip. Ooh, fighting words.

• 9:38Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, this feels like a very New York take. One, um, because as Midwesterners, there's nothing we love more than a journey. But it's funny, you know, because you know, if I think about it, like I've had people tell me in Chicago, like, oh, uh, there's a spot here where like you should go up and have the burger. And, but it's north, so I've never been because it's like, it's far north. So I'm like, hmm, you know, probably not. And there's so many good burgers, right? I think it's a problem. It's not that a burger isn't worth it. There's just so many good ones. However, though, in the same vein, I have traveled to Red Hook for that burger from Chicago.

• 10:16Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right. That's even farther than me coming from Harlem.

• 10:18Joe Flamm?

  Fucking slaps. I've traveled to Red Hook because I went to Red Hook for his barbecue.

• 10:23Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right. Yeah.

• 10:25Joe Flamm?

  And then so.

• 10:25Adrienne Cheatham?

  Hometown barbecue. I've been there so many times. I fucking love that place. Amazing. I think we all went there one time together. Tyler took us all there, right?

• 10:33Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, you're correct. I went to Red Hook Tavern for the burger, but the other stuff there is really, really good. I think is the other thing. It's also a really cool place.

• 10:41Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's now that is where you'll get me.

• 10:43Joe Flamm?

  Tavern. You know what I mean? There's a bunch of things that hit there. And I also, if I'm in another city, I think I'm more willing to, to go adventure because I usually have less going on.

• 10:51Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 10:52Joe Flamm?

  You know what I mean? So that's like, if I'm traveling, I'm traveling. It's not like, oh, hey, I gotta get back because you know what I mean? I gotta pack lunches in the morning.

• 11:00Adrienne Cheatham?

  But see, that's how, that's how I kind of agree with this statement. As much as like, I was like, oh, hell no, I'll go anywhere if you tell me there's a good burger. But the more I thought about it, I was like, no, I actually won't. If there's other stuff.

• 11:14Joe Flamm?

  You never even went and got that soft serve.

• 11:16Adrienne Cheatham?

  No, I didn't. I mean,

• 11:17Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 11:18Adrienne Cheatham?

  I'd have to take a whole box of lactate if I want to eat that.

• 11:21Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:22Adrienne Cheatham?

  A soft serve dipped in butter. But the, the burger thing is like, I will go if there's other stuff like DB Bistro back in the day. One of Danielle Balud's restaurants was known to have this incredible burger that had like braised short rib and foie gras on the inside. I was like, holy shit, I want to try this burger, but they had a cassola. They had other stuff that was like, you have to try all of these things. So I went there with some friends. We tried a ton of dishes and of course the burger was one. Minetta Tavern, I've actually gone to just have the burger at the bar and a glass of wine and like called it a night.

• 12:00Adrienne Cheatham?

  But that's because I was like downtown on the early side. When I first tried the burger at Minetta Tavern, it's because I went there to try other stuff as well. So I don't know if I would make a trip just for a burger.

• 12:12Joe Flamm?

  I think just for a burger is tough. I think there are foods though, that are typical travel foods, like in the States at least. Like I think in other countries, you know, kind of like when we talked about with Michelin, like you'll drive out to a restaurant in the middle of nowhere. That's a three star.

• 12:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 12:25Joe Flamm?

  I think in America, we don't really do that. However, I think one of the ones here is like, our people will travel for barbecue. You could open up like, there's a, the most famous restaurant in the state of Illinois. Is Seventeenth Street Barbecue.

• 12:42Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh wow.

• 12:42Joe Flamm?

  Seventeenth Street Barbecue is in Murphysboro, which is about four and a half hours south of Chicago, still in the state. There's this little place called Seventeenth Street Barbecue that's super famous, really phenomenal barbecue restaurant. The people travel from all over to go eat at.

• 12:58Adrienne Cheatham?

  Have you been there?

• 13:00Joe Flamm?

  I have not.

• 13:02Joe Flamm?

  It's on my bucket list. It's what I want to do.

• 13:03Adrienne Cheatham?

  I feel like you, Hillary and the kids have got a trip coming up for that.

• 13:07Joe Flamm?

  Every time, every time I've had a road trip south somewhere, I look what, how much more time it would take for me to go through.

• 13:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  Ah, so that's like Michelin two star. It's worth a, it's worth a strong detour.

• 13:19Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I just haven't had the, the, the thing to do it yet, but I think barbecue you travel for, but just for burger, I'm like, ah, if I'm there, I'm like, oh yeah, let's go get this burger. So it's, it's one of those things though, but if that's the lead, if that's like, oh, why you gotta go to this place? I feel like if you're like, you have to go to this place that also have bang a burger.

• 13:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right, right.

• 13:37Joe Flamm?

  That's the cherry on top that might push me over the edge.

• 13:40Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 13:41Joe Flamm?

  But it's probably not the lead.

• 13:42Adrienne Cheatham?

  I want to go to Red Hook Tavern because I've heard all of the food is phenomenal and the burger would be one thing that I order. But I don't know if I'm going to go to a place just for, I have to be in like a burger mood. And that's so rare that I'm like, I just want to sit down and house a juicy burger.

• 14:00Joe Flamm?

  I could, I could eat a burger like probably four days a week.

• 14:03Adrienne Cheatham?

  For me, eating a burger is like going to the gym. It's not something that I like go into like, oh man, I'm, I'm really excited for this. But I'm always like, oh, that was fucking awesome afterwards.

• 14:14Joe Flamm?

  Oh, see, I'm like, as many days as I go to the gym, I can have a burger.

• 14:19Joe Flamm?

  Those things are directly, I, I have a direct correlation with the two as well, but I think it's the opposite way of you. I'm like, I went to the gym this morning so I could eat a burger today.

• 14:28Adrienne Cheatham?

  And you deserve that burger. Now, how about I meet you in Red Hook? We, we grab the burger? Perfect.

• 14:34Joe Flamm?

  I'm in. I'm in anytime. I'm a huge Billy Durney fan, so I'm, I'm always down.

• 14:39Adrienne Cheatham?

  Well, Joe, I think it's time to get into a little bit of line check. What do you say?

• 14:44Joe Flamm?

  I'd say let's go.

• 14:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay, so this is something you have a really strong opinion about. I know because we've talked about it. I've seen these conversations flying around since I was a kid. But mainly now, there is like a chef on Instagram whose clip has gone kind of viral for his hot take on opening restaurants.

• 15:06Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, and I think it's that what I said to you, and I don't know if it's even a hot take. It's just, you know, that take of, don't do it, right? That's this guy's whole thing. He goes into this whole, don't do it, don't get into restaurants. It's just shit. You eat shit every day. You know, like, don't get it for any reason. Like, you'll get nothing out of it. And that's kind of like the whole trope is like, there's no good to it, right? Like, you're just gonna get in this business and it's just gonna crush your dreams and it's gonna ruin your life and it's bad.

• 15:35Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 15:36Joe Flamm?

  And it's like,

• 15:37Adrienne Cheatham?

  I thought there was gonna be a silver lining at the end of the clip. It's like, bud, if you love it, if you can't, you know, it's like I was waiting, watching the clip for that moment of the joy for being in restaurants. A moment of joy for what the work is and a moment of like acknowledgement that, yes, it's hard, but we love this and we do it because blank. Everybody's got their own reason.

• 15:59Joe Flamm?

  There was a little bit of that of like, oh, like, but if you have to do it, you should do it. Just don't expect anything out of it.

• 16:06Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, it was wildly pessimistic.

• 16:09Joe Flamm?

  And it's one of those things where, for me, it's like, there's, there's tons of truth to it, right? Like, it is super hard. Like, yes, if you think you're getting into it to make your own hours, you're crazy. But if anyone who thinks like, I'm gonna own my own business, you know what I mean? It's, it's like, there's that old joke of like, I quit working 40 hours a week for someone else so I could work 100 hours a week for myself.

• 16:30Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right, right.

• 16:31Joe Flamm?

  And it's like, and that's kind of what it is. And it's, you know, I mean, you'll never get like, you're not gonna be like, oh, I work for myself, so I work less hours. It's like you just have more flexibility and you have more control, I think is, is, is the beauty of it. But it just glosses over everything that's incredible about this industry, about owning a restaurant. And it's just like, I hate the idea, the trope of like, Somehow these people just ended up with restaurants and now they have this, this burden, this cross to bear that is, you know, this restaurant. It's like this, isn't this what you work for?

• 17:03Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 17:04Joe Flamm?

  Isn't this what you wanted?

• 17:05Adrienne Cheatham?

  And didn't you, I mean, I feel like, so you know, my mom was in restaurants. She worked in restaurants before I was born. I was raised literally in restaurants. She was in the industry on different sides, mainly front of house, restaurant manager, then went to food sales, but she was in the industry for like thirty some odd years. So she was very against me going into it because she knew how hard the life could be. She didn't work at high level restaurants. She managed restaurants that were like neighborhood diner, you know, nice, you know, but casual places like Mellow Yellow on 53rd Street, known for their bowl of chili. You know, ostensibly a great neighborhood restaurant, date night, Friday, Tuesday,

• 17:47Adrienne Cheatham?

  take the kids after school kind of place. But there was no part of the industry that she was like, there's huge reward from this. You do it because it's a job. You do it because it's fulfilling in a lot of ways. You love providing hospitality, but it is really hard. And if you can find another way to do something that you're passionate about, maybe go do that instead. And she would always tell me like nine out of 10 restaurants fail within the first year. So it's just really, it's a gamble. You might be out of a job. You might lose your shirt, you know? I remember hearing that as a kid, but I feel like since COVID though, I do feel like it's gotten a lot harder than it was even before. And it's always been hard, right? But I feel like it has gotten harder.

• 18:32Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I think it has. You know what I mean? Just straight up. Everything's gotten more expensive, right? And so like therefore it's like there's more constraints. The margins are smaller. You hear everyone, you, you hear that trope because it's true. Things have just gone up in price. Rent's crazy. Food prices are crazy. Labor prices are crazy. All of these things now we consider when you and I started cooking 20 years ago were just totally different, right?

• 18:54Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 18:55Joe Flamm?

  And I think you could open a restaurant with a lot less than. And the expectations of like you could open a restaurant and let it build. And now it's like you gotta come out of the gate so hot. Like you, you have to be a great restaurant right out of the gate to survive. And I think it's one of those things where it's.

• 19:14Joe Flamm?

  Like, there's a ton of truth to it, and I'll be the first one to tell people, like, if you can think about doing anything else, you should probably do that. That's probably the thing you should be doing. Like, I'm doing this because I can't imagine waking up tomorrow and doing anything else. There's nothing else I want to do. Like, if I have to wake up tomorrow, and they're like, you have to get a different job. I don't even know where to begin.

• 19:32Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right, right.

• 19:33Joe Flamm?

  I don't even know where I'd start. There's not a two, there's not a three. It's just like, okay, well, I don't think the Bears want me as a backup center. So, you know, like, I really don't have a plan B here. And granted, too, like, we're in one of the times of year, you know, we're sitting here. I'm in Chicago in January, there's three inches of snow out front. And it is a brutal time of year at restaurants. You know what I mean? You remember it as a cook. It's slow, it's cuts, it's, you know, I mean, especially in fine dining. Basically, if you can afford to eat at a fine dining restaurant, you can afford to not be in a cold city when it's cold.

• 20:05Adrienne Cheatham?

  Exactly. We used to get our hours, I mean, you'd be lucky if you're getting, I mean, forty hours. And I say that because we would, we would normally be working between eighty to a hundred. One of my friends, Eric Fricker, one time, he clocked a hundred and twenty hours one week. It was wild on his time card. And we were like, dude, you're buying drinks tonight because you're balling right now.

• 20:30Joe Flamm?

  That's legendary.

• 20:30Adrienne Cheatham?

  But, you know, it's to, to have your hours cut when you make seven twenty-five an hour, and you're working, you know, maybe thirty hours, maybe even twenty, if it's really slow. Like, when the recession hit in oh eight, even fine dining took a hit there. And you'd be lucky if you're working two, three days a week back then.

• 20:48Joe Flamm?

  Right.

• 20:48Adrienne Cheatham?

  That was scary times, very scary.

• 20:51Joe Flamm?

  Right, and so it's like, you know, with, this is the scariest time of year. You know, you walk around West Loop at night, and you see restaurants, and they're slow, and there's a few people in them, and you're just like, you know, you're kind of, this is the time of year where you just have to hold the line and say, like, okay, okay, we know it's tight right now. We just have to run lean, we have to run tight, and we have to, you know, live on, you know, the restaurant business is a business of, you know, faith and hope and, you know, belief, right? Like, that of just like, This is a slow time, but you know, like the old, like it cannot always be night.

• 21:23Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 21:24Joe Flamm?

  And so it's like, that's

• 21:25Adrienne Cheatham?

  And this two shall pass.

• 21:27Joe Flamm?

  Right. Like that's how you sit through a winter is in a this two shall pass mindset of like, hey, you know, we gotta work on what we can work on. We gotta get better on what we can get better on. And you know, we'll get to the other side of this. So it's scary. It's scary running a business where you're depending on people to walk through the door every day.

• 21:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah. And then a snowstorm hits or it starts raining or the temperature drops 20 degrees overnight.

• 21:50Joe Flamm?

  Right. And it's scary as shit. It's scary as shit to, to open your own business, to put yourself out there, put your money out there, put your name on the line, put your, your whole self out there. But it's also, I mean, the reward for people to sit there and say, there's no reward is the most insane thing I've ever heard. We can sit in here and complain about, you know, bad diapers or you'd be crazy people we worked with. But it's like, it's the fucking best. And it's like, and we're not the only ones who live in a world where it's like the idea of like, our job is not just a job. It's a lifestyle. It's like we work different hours. We're working on things. It's like, that's not special. That's not unique. Talk to any nurse out there. Talk to any person working in a firehouse, working on a, you know, EMT,

• 22:34Joe Flamm?

  working in a million different jobs where you work the different hours, where you work a third shift in a factory, where you do all these things. Like it's not unique.

• 22:43Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 22:44Joe Flamm?

  You know what I mean? It's not a nine to five and it feels sometimes like everybody works a nine to five, but you, especially when you're in this industry. But it's so rewarding. You know what I mean? The people we get to work with, the things we get to do, that we get to do what we love for a living, that is unique.

• 23:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 23:03Joe Flamm?

  That is really special. And it's like, yes. Some days it sucks. Some days, people hate what you do. They come in and they're just mean. You know what I mean? They yell at you for crazy things and you have to sit there and be like, yeah, this sucks. But it's like, also, it's like, some days you get to sit there, look at a packed dining room, feel the energy of the room, look at people laughing, having fun, and you're like, I created this space for that.

• 23:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 23:25Joe Flamm?

  You know what I mean? You get to watch people grow in their careers.

• 23:28Adrienne Cheatham?

  Mm hmm.

• 23:29Joe Flamm?

  And not something where it's like they had to go to school for, for seven years.

• 23:32Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, it's like you, you hatch a little baby cook and then you get to like, see him fly. It's like, that's a really cool moment.

• 23:39Joe Flamm?

  Right. It's like you get to watch people build a career for themselves who maybe didn't know what they were gonna do 10 years ago. Who didn't have a thought, who were like, oh, maybe I'll go to school, maybe I'll do this. And now it's like, man, you're really good at this. You have a life.

• 23:52Adrienne Cheatham?

  So Joe, you just opened your fourth restaurant. So I know that like, we talked about this towards the end of 25, when Bartuto was opening, and you were really excited about it. And then things like this come up where people are just kind of like bragging on like something that you hold very dear. Um, so what is it that keeps you going like personally? Like, is it the reward side of it? Is it, you know, what is your motivation? How do you stay positive about it while so many other people are feeling so down about it?

• 24:23Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, and I think it's hard, right? Especially like this time of year. You know, we're a month into a new restaurant, a little bit more. And I think like every day I try to remind myself, it's like, I get to do this. No one's making me. You know what I mean? I don't have to, but I get to. And I think that's really, really important to like have that mindset of like, this is, you know, a privilege that I get to run restaurants. It's crazy to me that like, you know, like, I get to open, like, this is like, this is a weird one. But I had this moment, like, I think it was like a week and a half ago age, and I was leaving Bartuto,

• 25:01Joe Flamm?

  and I got a coffee, and I got in my car to go drive to a meeting, and I looked at the coffee cup and it said Bartuto on it, like just on the sleeve. And I was like,

• 25:12Joe Flamm?

  For some reason, that felt so big.

• 25:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  Ah.

• 25:15Joe Flamm?

  Like, it felt so big. I was like, I can't believe, you know, like, I, I, I built this restaurant where it's like my, like, I don't know, you know what I mean? Like, why, like, the name's on the sign on a fucking giant building, and it's on a menu, and it's odd. You know, sweatshirts we made at all these things. But for some reason, seeing it out of a disposable coffee cup, honestly, like, was like, whoa.

• 25:37Adrienne Cheatham?

  Ah.

• 25:38Joe Flamm?

  Like, this is crazy. Like, you know what I mean? To go from being a line cook, making no money, doing all these things, and like, you know, working so hard for this, and just to like, see the name of your restaurant on the coffee cup, like, that felt huge. And it was such a cool moment. It was such a cool moment. So it's like, I think you have to, like, look for the, the, the little victories and the joy in those little moments. You have to, you know what I mean? Like, look for those things in the everyday where it's like, you get to work with people, and you get to talk to people and spend your time meeting these people who, you know what I mean? It's like, in restaurants, it's like, it's filled with a bunch of weirdos like us.

• 26:11Adrienne Cheatham?

  Coolest people ever.

• 26:13Joe Flamm?

  That's what I mean, though. They're like wildly fascinating to talk to, for me. I just like, I love meeting the new people. And just like, you know, it's like, how did you end up here? It's like, everybody's got a story.

• 26:22Adrienne Cheatham?

  What brand of weird are you?

• 26:24Joe Flamm?

  Yes, it's fantastic. I love it. Like, that's the things that, like, keep me motivated, that keep me smiling. And it's like, you know, and I think at the end of the day, the biggest thing is, you know, I have to tell myself, like, if I'm not walking in the door excited to be here every day, how can I possibly expect that from my teams? You know what I mean? Whether it's a slow Tuesday in January, or it's a bangin' Friday, Saturday night, you know, in May, and patio's open, and everything's rocking, and the whole city feels like it's on fire.

• 26:50Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 26:51Joe Flamm?

  Like, those days both have to matter as much.

• 26:54Adrienne Cheatham?

  Mm-hmm. I, I firmly believe, and I pretty much wake up every day with the belief, and I've been telling myself, I used to be a very, not pessimistic, but I was, I was a bit of a different person, um, when I worked in restaurants, and then started to change because, you know, it was like, the line cook lifestyle and just all this, and I was like, kind of down about things here and there. And I was like, you know what? I fucking love this. I love what I do. I love the people I work with. I love the lifestyle. I wasn't down about that, but I would just be like, out in the streets, and I'm like, ugh, people, like, you know, I have to, I stop for my morning coffee, and I'm like, all these fucking people at my coffee shop. You know, it's like, why am I so angry about everything?

• 27:37Adrienne Cheatham?

  And so I realized then, happiness is a choice. Happiness is a fucking choice and I choose happiness. That helped me change my perspective on things that used to get me incredibly frustrated. Dealing with people who like Olivia Tiedemann, when she was with us, remember that guy brought the wrong thing from the walk in? I used to fly off the handle of stuff. I still, you know, but I realized like, let me manage, let me manage my response to this and just say, what the fuck is wrong with you? Instead of like getting my stress level up.

• 28:08Joe Flamm?

  And you're like, you gotta laugh at that shit.

• 28:10Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 28:10Joe Flamm?

  Like going through this opening, like the amount of times I think I said that to, you know, like Trev, who's my culinary director, you know, where it's like the frustration levels, cause you're just like, man, we said this a thousand times. Man, we talked about this a hundred times. We send emails about it. We have checklists, we have all these things and then something happens and you're just like, yeah, I'm like, dude, I go, you just gotta laugh. I go, because if you just let the frustration just boil and boil and boil, I go, you're gonna blow your top.

• 28:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  Exactly.

• 28:37Joe Flamm?

  And I go, especially when I was a young sous chef and chef de cuisine, I would get so mad, I get so frustrated and then I blow up on somebody, right?

• 28:43Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 28:44Joe Flamm?

  Having long conversations with them after service of like, oh, you did this and this and this and this. I remember like leaving Spiaja and like after being there five and a half years and like the stuff that's stuck with me were like those times where it's like, I wasn't my best self and I like, you know what I mean? Like lost my shit and it's like, you're embarrassed.

• 29:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, right.

• 29:03Joe Flamm?

  You know what I mean? You're like, what was I doing? Like, why did I do that? Like, why would I, you know what I mean? React in that way.

• 29:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, you realize that the stress got to you and you were reacting on the stress. You weren't reacting necessarily on the situation. You weren't looking at it in that positive way. And it's just like afterwards, you're right. Like you look back on that and you're like, oh, I can't believe like somebody's got that memory of me. Somebody.

• 29:26Joe Flamm?

  And it's just, and I don't know if this is just like.

• 29:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  Looks at me like and remembers that moment.

• 29:30Joe Flamm?

  A growing up with siblings mentality, but.

• 29:34Joe Flamm?

  You know, like growing up with siblings, I have three. It was always a game of I'm gonna try to get under your skin. And I'm gonna try to get you to overreact. You know what I mean? Like that's, I'm just gonna needle you.

• 29:47Adrienne Cheatham?

  I see it with my niece and nephew all the time now.

• 29:50Joe Flamm?

  Overreact because then you're gonna get in trouble, right? And I feel like restaurants are like a giant game of that sometimes where it's like, listen, this day is gonna needle you and needle you and it knows, the restaurant knows how to get under your skin, just like your siblings, just like my older sister. You know what I mean? Like there's, I don't know if there's anyone in this world who could piss me off quicker that if my older sister decided today, she's like, I'm gonna get Joe fired up. Just for no reason. She could, she could knock that out before we finish this phone call. Like, you know, um, and, and I think like restaurants are so good at that. So I think like, if there's something in that like sibling thing to me where it's like, ah, can't believe I let it get the best of me. Like, I can't believe I let it make me overreact.

• 30:30Joe Flamm?

  Like, I'm so mad at myself. Like, you know, it's like, I, you know, like that, like, I should be better than that. Or I shouldn't let it, you know what I mean, beat me. Where it's like, I feel like I got beat by it that day.

• 30:40Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right, right.

• 30:41Joe Flamm?

  Like, that's how I always look at it now, where those days where I'm like, even if I was like, if I was visibly frustrated. Because like that happens, especially in an open, I had days where it's like, I look visibly frustrated. Because I am, you know what I mean? Because I'm like, fucking, you know what I mean? This is the fourth time we're putting this up, or this is taking longer than I want. Or, you know, I mean, we just ran shit to the wrong table and I'm just frustrated. Like, I can't help it. I want it to be right. I want it to be right, right away. I try to be patient, but I suck at it. And you know what I mean? I just want it to be right. And I want everyone to be on the same page as me, which is a totally insane page. And like, so it's like those days when I feel that way, I'm like, ah, got the best of me.

• 31:22Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 31:22Joe Flamm?

  You know, Tony used to say, never let them see you sweat.

• 31:25Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right. One of my chefs before gave me that same advice and it was a guy named Adam. Some of the best advice he gave me in a moment was like, eat the stress. The waiters are coming at you this way, telling you this table has this issue. We need the food for this. You know, the manager's over here. This person's yelling. The saucier just knocked over a quart of sauce that you need for later in night, you know, for service. And then all the things are going on around you. You have to be the one who steadies the ship. If you lose your shit, everybody around you feels like the ship is sinking.

• 31:59Joe Flamm?

  We're all going.

• 31:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  So you have to be.

• 32:00Joe Flamm?

  We're all going.

• 32:01Adrienne Cheatham?

  And that's, it's not just kitchens. Like that applies to every, everything. If you're managing people or people are looking to you for guidance in any kind of way, you have to be the one who like makes them feel like things are okay. And you can get through it. If you lose your shit, everything goes completely haywire.

• 32:21Joe Flamm?

  Right. It's that's, you know, it's like when we train people on expo, that's why I always tell them, I'm like, if you start looking off the cliff, you're going off the cliff. And I go, and you're in front of the pack. So the whole pack's going with you. I go, they're gonna be, they're gonna be 10 feet off that cliff before they even realize their feet aren't on the ground. I go, whatever direction, I go, if you're happy, you're keeping the energy up. I go, so are they. I go, if you're spiraling, they're coming down with you.

• 32:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  A hundred percent.

• 32:47Joe Flamm?

  And you're gonna take a whole line down with you. And having to get 10 people out of a hole is a lot of people to get out of a hole. You know, I had a GM who used to tell the captains, he would say, be the duck. And it was the idea of like you're calm and cool on the top of the water, but underneath you're like, you know, and I always like love that one. You know, it's like, be the duck. Like, and, uh, and, uh, cause that's like so much of what it is. It's like, if it looks, you know, I mean, you've walked into other restaurants, looked at the kitchen and been like, like they're having a tough night.

• 33:16Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yep.

• 33:17Joe Flamm?

  Like you just see the body language. You see somebody talking to somebody and you're, yeah, oof, I don't want to be back there.

• 33:22Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right. You're like, ooh, something went wrong. Ooh. My nosy ass like walks by the open part of the kitchen, trying to hear like the shit they're talking.

• 33:31Joe Flamm?

  Dude, I remember I walked into a buddy of mine's restaurant. The second I walked in, I saw him and he had this cook there who had like stashed from me, worked for me for a brief point, was a real just asshole. And as I walked in, I could see him and the other sous chef and they're talking to this kid. And it's just like, you could tell this dude is getting. Paste it like just ripped to the heavens. And so I like walked it right. It was I was happening. And what had happened was he had gone to clean the fryer and like didn't take all the oil out, dump some water in and like didn't turn it off.

• 34:09Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh.

• 34:11Joe Flamm?

  It overflowed the whole fryer and like melted the knobs off the front of the fryer.

• 34:18Joe Flamm?

  Like right before dinner.

• 34:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  Bonehead.

• 34:20Joe Flamm?

  Like right before dinner service.

• 34:21Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, God.

• 34:23Joe Flamm?

  And so they're like.

• 34:25Adrienne Cheatham?

  Bonehead.

• 34:26Joe Flamm?

  And you know, this is one of those people who stashed for me who was like, yeah, I don't think this place is like up to where I'm at.

• 34:32Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right, right.

• 34:33Joe Flamm?

  Kind of guy. You know what I mean?

• 34:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, yeah. It's us. It's not you.

• 34:36Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, like super tweezer, bro. Like, I don't know if this would go well for me because I don't know if like at my level. And I'm like, okay. And then I watched him melt the fucking knobs off a deep fryer. And I was like, oh, is that your level? Then yeah, you're right. We're not at your level.

• 34:48Adrienne Cheatham?

  I think it's time to take it to the walk in.

• 34:51Joe Flamm?

  Oh, I think you're, I think you're way, way overdue, Adrian.

• 34:55Adrienne Cheatham?

  Am I overdue?

• 34:56Joe Flamm?

  I think you're overdue. I think we haven't heard something from the depths of AG's, AG's back history, the lore of Adrian Cheatham, if you will. You know what I mean? Your, your villain, your villain origin story.

• 35:13Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 35:13Joe Flamm?

  Of why, of why you're angry with people in coffee shops.

• 35:18Adrienne Cheatham?

  So many reasons.

• 35:19Joe Flamm?

  Besides being a 70 year old man who eats rye toast.

• 35:23Adrienne Cheatham?

  And baked potatoes. Yes.

• 35:26Adrienne Cheatham?

  Well, we're not even at the villain origin story yet. I'm going to take you to a time where I was still just fucking up and getting yelled at. And maybe that is part of the origin story. Maybe that's why I became so angry because young Adrian made a lot of young decisions and did a lot of dumb stuff. And I got yelled at tremendously on several occasions. Yes, I've had stuff thrown at me. Yes, I've had plates slung down the line that I had to like catch before it shattered on a saute pan. And then I would have to reset my whole station because the chef threw a plate at me. So back in the day. I think I was on Garnier, the restaurant shall remain nameless, but we had a buyout,

• 36:09Adrienne Cheatham?

  right? That's when somebody essentially says, on this date, don't take any reservations, we'll pay you X amount of money that would cover what you would make in that night, plus some on top, for your staff to work for this private event for 175 people.

• 36:27Joe Flamm?

  Right.

• 36:27Adrienne Cheatham?

  So I was doing the garnish. There was a little side couscous salad for this dish, like the Israeli couscous, the big pearls, not like the small couscous. So, okay, all I had to do for the day, I had one job. I had one job.

• 36:43Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, one fucking job.

• 36:44Adrienne Cheatham?

  Adrian.

• 36:45Joe Flamm?

  It's always how it starts.

• 36:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  You had one job and you fucked it up. So my chef said, Adrian, way out, whatever couscous, you need to nail it, right? We don't need to have too much leftover. We can use some for family meal the next day, but I need you to get this right. Okay. So I fucked up a lot of things, not just one. Um, so I weighed, I weighed the couscous dry and didn't reweigh the portion cooked. So yeah, big mistake. Number one, big mistake. Number two, probably the bigger mistake, because we can deal with a little extra leftover. We can just make that the star of family meal instead of a side dish. So I was prepping

• 37:28Adrienne Cheatham?

  the herbs that get chopped and added to the salad. What's the first thing you do when you're prepping herbs?

• 37:34Joe Flamm?

  Washers?

• 37:35Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes. What did I not do?

• 37:38Joe Flamm?

  Oh.

• 37:39Adrienne Cheatham?

  I know, right? And it's, you know.

• 37:42Joe Flamm?

  Also, hold on, we just have to take one step back here because this is, I don't think people realize how hilarious, like, and how big of a mess weighing dry is, because 50% of the weight of couscous is water. So it's not like you missed by like, I was off by, you know, a couple hundred grams. But you were off by 50%. You did twice as much as you needed.

• 38:01Adrienne Cheatham?

  Mm hmm. Yep. A hundred percent. A hundred.

• 38:03Joe Flamm?

  Very good. We'll, we'll keep rolling. Thank you.

• 38:05Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll just skate past that one because at the end of it, my chef was less mad about that than the herb situation. So I had washed the herbs that were like, that I saw that were dirty. Some of the other herbs had been, the paper towels were more damp. I thought they had been washed because sometimes our receiver would wash the herbs if they have time. I didn't check. I should have. All on me. I assumed herbs were washed, didn't ask, didn't check, didn't wash to, to be sure. We have a huge salad spinner. I could have used, I had no excuses. So chopped the herbs, made the salad, all this.

• 38:42Adrienne Cheatham?

  We plate, we send 175. And mind you, these go on the side, so they're not on the plate. Thank God. So most people don't even touch them. That is probably my only saving grace is that most of them are just sitting on the table, kind of this garnish, decoration that nobody's actually eating because there's so much other stuff. My chef comes over, is like, wow, you really fucked up that, didn't you? Looking at the amount left over was like, wow, you really didn't do what I asked you to and nail the measurements. So I'm like, yes, chef, you know, I'm sorry. He's like, well, great. You're in charge of family meal for two days. You got to make this interesting for staff for two days now instead of one. Okay, that's on me. He goes to take a bite of it.

• 39:23Adrienne Cheatham?

  And I, he had tasted it before service. No complaints, no nothing, no notes. Everything was fine. Enough lemon juice, olive oil, salt, herbs, tomato, everything. Tomato bruschettis, everything. He takes a bite and gets that crunch from some sand. He threw his spoon so hard against the fucking tile, it bounced off the countertop. I mean, he flew off the handle, rightfully so. I mean, I, that huge mistake, right? You, you can't have somebody buying out a restaurant, spending a ton of money and get gritty, anything because somebody didn't wash the herbs. Yeah.

• 40:04Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 40:05Joe Flamm?

  That gritty like parsley taste too is so distinct. Where it's just like, it feels like you just licked a leaf off the ground. Like, you know what I mean? Where it's like that mud where you're just like.

• 40:15Adrienne Cheatham?

  You hit a piece of, of like, eh, like for the next hour. It's still like, it's just everywhere in your teeth. It's disgusting. And yep, young Adrian, young mistake. Didn't check, didn't ask, you know, was like, oh, okay, I can do this. And everybody's so busy with buyout stuff. I don't want to bother people. Did the herbs get washed today? Ah, they look clean.

• 40:37Joe Flamm?

  Mm hmm.

• 40:37Adrienne Cheatham?

  You know?

• 40:38Joe Flamm?

  I didn't know, so I didn't ask. I feel is like the one that always gets everybody like still to this day. It's like my number one thing. All my sous chefs and my cooks, but they like royally screw something up. They're like, well, I didn't know. It's like, right.

• 40:51Adrienne Cheatham?

  And you didn't ask. Right.

• 40:53Joe Flamm?

  Right. And remember like when I was standing like a foot away from you, like? You didn't think maybe?

• 40:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  Should've just been like, hey chef, hey chef.

• 41:01Joe Flamm?

  Hey, hey, fella.

• 41:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  Can I ask you a question?

• 41:03Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 41:04Adrienne Cheatham?

  Hey there, big guy. Can I ask you a question?

• 41:05Joe Flamm?

  You've asked me 75 questions today that were completely irrelevant.

• 41:09Adrienne Cheatham?

  You've asked me where the salt, when the salt is sitting right in front of you. You couldn't ask me this major thing that would have a detrimental effect on everything else around it.

• 41:17Joe Flamm?

  Oh dude, that's brutal. That's brutal. They're not washing it. There's no, there's no, there's nothing. There's nothing, especially it's already out on the table.

• 41:25Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yep.

• 41:26Joe Flamm?

  Cause that's a horrible feeling too. It's like, I've been the chef on the other side of that where you taste something and you're like. You're like, oh my God, I didn't taste this.

• 41:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 41:34Joe Flamm?

  I didn't taste this as much as I thought I did. Uh huh. Holy fuck, we just.

• 41:37Adrienne Cheatham?

  And I've been tasting it the whole time and I didn't, it was like, oh my God, it's just massive, massive mistake. I think I was just coming off of internship. It was like the biggest mistake I could have ever made that early at that restaurant. It was, it was not good. It was no bueno, puppy.

• 41:56Adrienne Cheatham?

  Joe, I think we have a couple of minutes and I want to do a quick Super Bowl turn and burn. I want to get your hot takes on a couple.

• 42:04Joe Flamm?

  Let's go.

• 42:05Adrienne Cheatham?

  Hell, yeah.

• 42:05Joe Flamm?

  Fire me. I'm ready.

• 42:07Adrienne Cheatham?

  All right. It's only four, so it'll go fast, but these are Super Bowl staples. Staples for it. All right. I need to know where you stand. If our friendship's going to continue, I gotta know who I'm dealing with here.

• 42:18Joe Flamm?

  Yep.

• 42:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay, you ready?

• 42:20Joe Flamm?

  I'm ready. Never been more ready.

• 42:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  Buffalo wings or pigs in a blanket?

• 42:27Joe Flamm?

  Oh, that is tough. That is tough. But for a Super Bowl specifically, Buffalo wings.

• 42:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay, fair. Blue cheese or ranch?

• 42:36Joe Flamm?

  This is not going to be popular, but there's only one answer and it's blue motherfucking cheese.

• 42:42Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, damn it. Okay, I mean.

• 42:44Joe Flamm?

  Put some flavor in your life.

• 42:48Adrienne Cheatham?

  All right, sports bar or house party to watch the game?

• 42:51Joe Flamm?

  Uh, house party only. I need to be in a safe space.

• 42:54Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay, fair. I could see that for you. Halftime show or halftime commercials?

• 42:59Joe Flamm?

  Like am I watching the halftime show?

• 43:01Adrienne Cheatham?

  Which are you most excited about? Second quarter ends, halftime is about to start. Are you like, oh, these commercials are about to be lit? Or are you like, damn, this show is about to go down? Which are you more excited for?

• 43:11Joe Flamm?

  I think it depends on the show. I'd say, you know, it's Bad Bunny this year, right?

• 43:15Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 43:16Joe Flamm?

  I'm gonna say show. Gotta go. My boy Benito.

• 43:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  Me too. I'm with him. I'm with Benito.

• 43:22Joe Flamm?

  I could tell by the shirt.

• 43:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yep. That's that's my Super Bowl turn and burn.

• 43:26Joe Flamm?

  That's, uh, yeah. Okay, I have to give you though, my ranch origin villain story. After you and I did Top Chef, while I got kicked off and I was in Last Chance Kitchen, I had to do a quick fire where we had to cook.

• 43:40Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's right, you did get kicked off.

• 43:42Joe Flamm?

  Okay, chill. We both know how it came. We both know how this ended.

• 43:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  I know. I had to get my moment. Thanks for letting me have it, asshole.

• 43:49Joe Flamm?

  When you can. Um, but so we had to do, uh, like basically like one of those last chance ones, like a quick fire where we had to use powdered ranch.

• 43:58Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh.

• 43:59Joe Flamm?

  And so I won that one. So after we were done, this video is still out in the ether somewhere. But the first thing I ever did, like I ever got paid for, you know what I mean, to do like a promotion? Was I went, I flew to New York, filmed this thing at Chelsea Market and it was me and this woman, she was Andy Cohen's assistant at the time.

• 44:18Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay.

• 44:18Joe Flamm?

  And. We did this whole thing with ranch with Hidden Valley where they had like a ranch fountain and we just dip shit in ranch all day. We ate ranch for like six hours. All sorts of stuff. We were just eating ranch on like Oreos and like bullshit like that. And I just remember getting back on the plane to Chicago. I went from there to the airport and I was like, there's nobody sitting next to me. I laid across three seats and I was sweating out ranch. And I was like, it's so much pain and I hated it so much. So it is blue cheese. It was always blue cheese before that, but it'll be blue cheese for life. I was, you know, traumatized by ranch.

• 44:55Adrienne Cheatham?

  It sounds like you've had enough ranch for anybody's lifetime, actually.

• 44:58Joe Flamm?

  But that video exists somewhere, somewhere out there in the ether is me eating ranch for like six hours.

• 45:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  You know, I'm gonna spend the rest of my day looking for this and I'm just gonna send you clips of it throughout the day. So you can relive the nausea. Like I had to relive my shame. You get to relive your nausea. That's what our friendship is, pretty much.

• 45:14Joe Flamm?

  That's what it is. Shame and nausea.

• 45:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's it for this episode of the Chef's Cut. Be sure to subscribe wherever you're listening, especially if you're watching us on YouTube where you can get full-length video episodes of the show. And be sure to follow us at Chef's Cut Pod on IG. For Joe Flamm, I'm Adrian Cheatham and this has been the Chef's Cut. Life beyond the past.