Maneet Chauhan Talks Chef Life, TV Fame, and the Universal Language of Food!

Adrienne and Joe are joined by Food Network star and decorated chef Maneet Chauhan to talk about how she chose the chef life, the universal language of food, and how she attempts to balance TV with running her own restaurants. Plus, we discuss: Fork It or Forget It: Ketchup on hot dogs (never in Chicago, of course) Maneet’s culinary breakthrough moment when traveling abroad Her major influences as a young chef Michelin starred Indian cuisine and the evolution of fine dining Walk In Confession: What to do when your multi-tiered wedding cake goes toppling over Turn and Burn: Coffee vs. Chai, and much more! Follow Maneet: @maneetchauhan Follow the show: @chefscutpod Follow Adrienne: @chefadriennecheatham Follow Joe: @insta.flamm

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  This week's guest on The Chef's Cut is Chef Maneet Chauhan, an award-winning chef and cookbook author, also Food Network star and champion chef competitor. We're talking her path to becoming a chef.

• 0:14Speaker 01

  My older sister, she went to college and I would go to meet her and I would show up with food. And soon I realized I was the most popular kid on campus and I didn't even go to school there. I'm like, aha, this is what I want to do.

• 0:26Adrienne Cheatham?

  Balancing restaurants and television.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  She was like, it's your call. Do you want to be in the one restaurant, bogged down by these small things for the rest of your life? Or do you want to expand? And that was an eye-opening experience for me.

• 0:40Adrienne Cheatham?

  Ketchup on hot dogs.

• 0:42Speaker 01

  Fork it only if it is Indian Maggie Hot and Sweet Ketchup.

• 0:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  And a wedding cake walk-in confession that will have you on the edge of your seat.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  The uncle of the bride decides that they want to go ahead and move the entire table. So I can see this entire thing happening in slow motion.

• 1:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  Full-length video of The Chef's Cut is now available on YouTube and Spotify. So be sure to hit subscribe right now on YouTube so you don't miss an episode. Let's meet Maneet.

• 1:15Adrienne Cheatham?

  Welcome to The Chef's Cut, Maneet Chauhan. It is so great to see you. Thank you so much for being here with us.

• 1:22Speaker 01

  I am so excited to be here and creating trouble with you guys. I think that's what the fun part is all about. I've got to tell you, I've been so enjoying all the conversations that you've been having. And it is just, it's so easy and so relatable and so fun. So I'm like, you know, I was feeling left out. I'm like, please, please get me on.

• 1:43Adrienne Cheatham?

  So funny enough, Joe, I don't know if I told you this, but Maneet and I were actually doing a show together. I don't think we can talk about it yet. But we were hanging out and Maneet said, "I always thought that Joe was so serious." I was like, what?

• 2:00Joe Flamm?

  You're the first person ever.

• 2:03Adrienne Cheatham?

  She was like, "He's so funny."

• 2:05Speaker 01

  You come across, you come across as very, you know, to the point and this is what it is. You better listen to me. Otherwise, I will be throwing the saucepan at you. You know, that kind of person. And I'm like, my first reaction is, "We chef."

• 2:21Joe Flamm?

  You could ask anyone who's ever worked in a kitchen with me, it's quite weirdly the opposite. It's a, I am, I think I am intense. And I think people think I'm serious because I'm tall, but that's really it. I'm a complete and total jackass.

• 2:37Adrienne Cheatham?

  Complete. I can vouch for that.

• 2:40Joe Flamm?

  Thank you, Adreed, for having my back.

• 2:42Adrienne Cheatham?

  Of course. So, Maneet, we're going to get into it. One thing that I want to ask you, because as much as we know about your professional career now, I don't know some of the background. Like, what was the moment that you decided that being a dirtbag line cook, like, this was it? This was what you wanted to do?

• 3:02Speaker 01

  I love the fact that you said when we started, we were the dirtbag line cook. I think we still are. Think about it, we still are, right? There are times you walk into the kitchen and somebody hasn't come up, what, I would like, dishwasher isn't there, you roll up your sleeves and you jump in. And I think that's what we love about this industry, just that craziness of it, that belonging. I think, to me, you know, it's really interesting. If anybody asks me if there was an alternate career that I would have ever thought of, I, I, I have a trouble answering that question because to me, it always, this was it. And so I grew up in this really small town in India, where, you know, people from all over India in this community, my dad, an engineer, mom, principal of a school.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  And the interesting part about India, like in most of the world, is that each and every region has a very specific cuisine of its own. So what was being cooked at our house was predominantly northern Indian, Punjabi food. But my neighbors were from southern India, or from eastern India, western India. So I literally was the kid who would finish dinner at home, go over to my neighbors' houses, tell them that my parents hadn't fed me. So can I eat with you? So I would sit on the dining table with them, but more fascinating than the dining table was the kitchens with the aunties. Right? Like I would go into the kitchen, you know, and like be this obnoxious kid where I'm like, my whys were about food.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  Like, why are you heating the oil before you're adding the spices? Why are you doing this? And, and it's interesting because these aunties did not have a scientific reason, which like, you know, later on, when we went to culinary school, we understood what the science behind cooking is. But at that time, it was all about instincts, right? And then later on, my older sister, she went to college and I would go to meet her. And the dawn food was, you know, as usual, obnoxious and I would show up with food. And soon I realized I was the most popular kid on campus and I didn't even go to school there. This is what I want to do. Of course, it also was a big thing that everybody in our community, they were, you know, my generation, they were starting to be doctors and engineers.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  Meanwhile, yours truly wants to be a chef and the number of people who came home and advised my parents that if she studies hard enough, she could still be an engineer. And, and I'm like, really? You say I can't be a chef? That's exactly what I'm gonna do. So I guess it's, it was just a combination of everything together.

• 5:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, that's awesome. So what was it that you first fell in love with? Was it the creative side of putting food together and learning about it? Or was it like the cooking, the lifestyle that came along with it?

• 5:50Speaker 01

  I think what made me fall in love with cooking is something which has kept me in love with cooking so far. Which is the joy that it gets to the people in front of you. It's the fact that it brings people together, the fact that you can communicate with people without even knowing the same language. I think that is so powerful. And I think I realized that, you know, that aha moment that, oh, this is why I'm obsessed with food. Couple of years back, Vivek and I went to Peru. We went to this small town called Urumbamba. We had just taken a red eye. Vivek is like, I'm gonna rest up for a few minutes. I'm like, I'm going to go to the local market.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  I walk in, he finds me an hour later at the local market, making and selling potato croquettes with a local Peruvian lady. I don't know Spanish and she didn't know English.

• 6:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh my god.

• 6:47Speaker 01

  And it was a powerful moment for me because that's the time I realized that the power of food is so, it's so universal. That language is something that you can just like, you can bridge all barriers if you know, right? Imagine if we as chefs were running the world, you know, it would be, it would be a really, it would be a nice, overfed and a happy world. And I, and I think that's why I love it.

• 7:15Adrienne Cheatham?

  I agree with that. That's beautiful.

• 7:17Joe Flamm?

  It's the best. And I think just, you know, me and Adrian have talked about this a ton, but like how special like, sharing a kitchen with someone is, whether you're on a line, whether you're in someone's home, whether you're, you know, in a market, wherever. And they're all kind of the same. There's always like the head person and there's always like some shithead who needs to be there. And it might be their sister, it might be their cousin, it might be a line cook, it might be whatever, but there's always, you know, that person too. I love what you're saying, like, you know, where you're like, I can't imagine anything else. And I still tell that people all the time when they come in and they're like, I'm thinking about doing this. I'm like, can you think about doing anything else?

• 7:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:50Joe Flamm?

  If you can think about anything else.

• 7:52Adrienne Cheatham?

  You might want to do it.

• 7:53Joe Flamm?

  That's the thing.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  That is so powerful. I'm so stealing that, Joe. I usually ask people, why do they want to get into the food industry? And they say that they want to be on TV. I'm like, look for something else.

• 8:05Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, yeah.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  Right? Because that is a very distant byproduct of what we do. It's not, that's not the destination. It's, it's somewhere along the way.

• 8:16Adrienne Cheatham?

  First, Mani, we have a little bit of fork it or forget it for you. So you're familiar with this segment, right? If you fork it, it's something you want to try or do. If you forget it, that means we're kicking it to the curb. So Joe, what do you have for us today?

• 8:30Joe Flamm?

  So, Mani, I think, I don't know if everyone knows this about you, but one thing, you know, I've had the pleasure of meeting you and Vivek many times and talking with both of you. You're both lovely. Actually, I love your husband. I think he's really funny and great. And I know everyone. Yeah, yeah. You know, you guys have deep Chicago roots. You spend a ton of time here and I, I know you love, you know, our city as well. So if we're going to forget it today, we're going to get controversial. I'm going to put you out of the spot. Ketchup on hot dogs, is it allowed?

• 8:57Speaker 01

  Um, fork it only if it is Indian Maggie hot and sweet ketchup.

• 9:03Joe Flamm?

  I don't even know of this ketchup.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  Maggie hot and sweet ketchup.

• 9:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  I've only seen the Maggie sauce.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like a Maggie sauce, but it is in India. So it's got garlic and it's got spices and like I even put it on an uh on, you know, uh on my omelet though. Of course, the other day, Antonia posted something that she's like, oh, Greg is putting ketchup on his hot dog. I'm like, I'm like, and? And she's like, we are no longer friends. I'm like, I am getting, I'm like, I will literally have you try this and then you can say we are no longer friends.

• 9:37Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, my God. So that's, that's a very different condiment than tomato ketchup, though. So in Chicago, it is like scorch the earth. No tomato ketchup should ever touch a hot dog. Apparently, I heard that that got its start because places selling like rancid meat would try to cover it up by putting ketchup on them in Chicago, like in the stockyards and the meatyards.

• 10:03Joe Flamm?

  They would sell the old meat at places like right outside the stockyard. They'd have little places.

• 10:07Adrienne Cheatham?

  With ketchup on it to cover up the fact that it was rancid. So putting a sign up that said, no ketchup on our hot dogs meant that your meat was fresh. So in Chicago, we were raised, I didn't know this history until like, I don't know, a few months ago. But I was raised that.

• 10:25Joe Flamm?

  Should be taught in schools.

• 10:27Adrienne Cheatham?

  It should be.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  I, I learned about it right now. I'm like, wow, this is amazing.

• 10:31Adrienne Cheatham?

  When I was really little, I liked ketchup on everything. So yes, I put ketchup on my hot dogs as like a six year old up to like, you know, whatever, eight. But then after that, my mom was like, yeah, we're just gonna have to take that away from you. Like, it was not a thing. So for me, it's a forget it. I can't put ketchup on hot dogs anymore. What about you, Joe?

• 10:50Joe Flamm?

  So it's a, it's a general rule that say, forget it for me. But there are two exceptions to the rule that I will let you in on right now, that where it makes it acceptable.

• 11:00Adrienne Cheatham?

  Besides the Maggie ketchup?

• 11:02Joe Flamm?

  Well, one of them is pretty close to the Maggie ketchup. One, I will say, if there are no other condiments available, there's nothing else. And it's like ketchup or nothing. You can go ketchup over a dry dog or dry dog's a weird way to go. I think you get put on a list if you're just eating plain hot dogs over the age of 10. It's a weird thing to do. It's just weird. People look at you. They're like, you're just, you're just doing that.

• 11:27Adrienne Cheatham?

  You just really wanted a hot dog.

• 11:28Joe Flamm?

  You're just eating a plain warm bologna sandwich right now rolled up. Like, that's weird. You're a weird guy. Like, don't sit too close to my children.

• 11:36Joe Flamm?

  And I will say the other second exception is similar to me needs. I don't know. I'm sure you both have been, but I don't know if you've eaten a hot dog there. Scandinavian hot dogs at the airport. If you've ever been to a Scandinavian airport and had a hot dog, listen, listen to me.

• 11:54Adrienne Cheatham?

  What is it like?

• 11:55Joe Flamm?

  The hot dogs at all Scandinavian airports are fucking top tier, top tier. And they do this spicy mustard and they have this weird, like it's kind of a chunky ketchup and then they put fried onions on it.

• 12:11Joe Flamm?

  And holy shit. Like me and my wife, I knew about the Scandinavian airport hot dogs from a trip when I was flying through Copenhagen and very hungover coming from Milan. And that's where I, I fell in love. So we were flying through Reykjavik in Iceland and we landed there at 6am and I told my wife, I was like, I'm getting a hot dog. And if you want one, you have to get one. You can't have any of mine. I've been looking forward to this hot dog since we booked this flight. She's like, what are you talking about? I'm like Scandinavian airport hot dogs are top tier. And I got one and she saw it. She was like, I need to get one of those. We, we, we flew through this airport twice. We were in, I was in Reykjavik for a total of 36 hours. I had seven hot dogs.

• 12:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh my.

• 12:51Joe Flamm?

  All from the airport.

• 12:52Speaker 01

  So now whenever Joe is traveling, if he is traveling from South Africa to Australia, he will go via Reykjavik and then go.

• 13:00Joe Flamm?

  That's it. That's it. Lay over in Oslo so I can get a hot dog.

• 13:05Joe Flamm?

  This is a terrible flight path.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  But it's true because even have you had those Japanese hot dogs again, like they have all of these really incredible toppings like, you know, you have seaweed and nori. I mean, they are and I think that's the incredible part or even like Germany, right? Like the curry worst and all of that. So, so yes, so a very long winded answer to your really short question. Yeah.

• 13:33Joe Flamm?

  To forget it, but by law of the land, it's a forget it. But there are exceptions. Emergency scenarios, you know, either emergency scenarios or you're in Scandinavia and all bets are off. Like, listen, if we're in a country where they eat reindeer, you can do whatever the fuck you want.

• 13:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  Agreed. Right. Agreed. Sauce on the menu, why not put the red ketchup on them?

• 13:53Joe Flamm?

  That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Red noses on the menu. We're eating, you know, red sauce.

• 14:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  One thing that as Joe mentioned, because you have deep roots in Chicago, I don't know if a lot of people know this, but one of your first big career moves before the things people see now was when you were the chef at Vermilion in Chicago, and that was Latin and Indian, beautiful kind of cuisine. And you really made a name for yourself as the chef there. And now you're doing a lot of television. So Joe going on, you know, restaurant number four is going into that balance himself of balancing operationally running restaurants while also being a media personality.

• 14:42Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I think, you know, one of the things I wanted to talk about today, I think like now people see you chef and it's like you've done so much TV, right? You've been on every show and you're awesome on it. Like when you judge on things, it's fantastic. When you get competition, like you just, you know, like your personality comes through so well. And I don't think that's easy to do, but I think it you make it look so effortless because it's just who you are. You know what I mean? It just comes through and it's beautiful. And I think. People forget sometimes you're a super serious chef. You've had restaurants everywhere. You still have restaurants. You still run restaurants. And for me, it's always an interesting thing. And it's like a weird thing to like, talk about sometimes of like, you know, like I do a little bit TV, not nearly as much as the both of you.

• 15:25Joe Flamm?

  But like, when I have to go do that, it's like having conversations with my staff of like, I'm going to do this because it's like, it's, it's become like a function of what we do now. Right? Because it helps drive people to those restaurants. And the more we drive people to those restaurants, the busier our staff is, the more money they make, the more we can promote people, the more we can grow, the more we can expand, the more we can push it through. And so I'm always curious with chefs like yourself, what does your balance look like now? When you like, go to the restaurants and you pop in, like, how do you pop in? Like, where do you try to like, get your impact into the restaurants at this point in your career, balancing it with such a robust schedule of, you know, filming and travel and events? And, you know, just, you know, being a fucking badass all the time.

• 16:09Speaker 01

  Just keep on talking, Joe. You're doing wonders for my ego. Yeah. Tell me more about how awesome. I'm just kidding. You know what, Joe? I, um, there is, there is that, there is the struggle constantly, right? Balance, right? And, and I strongly believe that there is nothing known as balance in life.

• 16:28Joe Flamm?

  Sure.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  At least for me. And to me, what has worked is that the moment that I find myself in will get to 100% of me. Right? And this is something like you've met Vivek and there was a time where I had the need that I needed to be there everywhere, right? Where, where he was like, listen, if you want to be everywhere, then you've got to figure out how comfortable you are giving up a little bit of control. Right? Because we know, we know, we are chefs. We want to be in, in everything, right? From where the detergent is coming for the dishwashing to, you know that, right? Like, oh, something is leaking.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  I want to be the central, the focal point of it. I need to make all the decisions. And, and we had this strong conversation where he was like, It's your call. Do you want to be in the one restaurant like bogged down by these small things for the rest of your life? Or do you want to expand? And that was an eye opening experience for me because I was like, no, I want to do that. And then slowly you start realizing that the team that you build around yourself is the team that deserves the real credit for where you are, right? Like, I always say that I'm the loudest person in the room. That's why I get the most amount of oxygen, right?

• 17:52Speaker 01

  But it is the, it is the incredible team around you who is, who is supporting you to do what you want to do. And I think over the years, I have started realizing what is my true impact. My biggest impact is definitely getting people into the door. That's very, very important in, in today's day and age. Yeah. The menus are mine. Am I working on the line every day? No, I'm not, right?

• 18:16Joe Flamm?

  Right, no.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  Rarely doing that. But the fact is that I have realized my biggest impact is getting people through the door. So that's what I'm going to work towards.

• 18:28Joe Flamm?

  That's also the hardest thing to do. And I don't think people talk about that enough. It's like, you know, I always say like, busy problems are good problems, right? Busy problems are easy to fix. You got, you know, you're like, oh, we're so busy. We need more food. We need more cooks. We need more space, right? Busy problems are easy problems. Slow problems are scary fucking problems. How to get more people to a restaurant is hard. And everybody talks like, oh, we do this one thing. And it's like, there's no one thing. It's a grind. And you know, it's almost like, you know, not having guests for restaurants. It's almost like, like illness, right? You know, if you're sick, nothing else matters. You know, as they say, like at a restaurant, if you're slow, nothing else matters.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  Think about it. Both of you know that every time it takes more energy to go out and be on all the time. Right? Than to be in your kitchen. If anybody asks me, where do you want to go and work in the kitchen? I'm like, I want to go to the dish pit, right? Everybody thinks that it is the easiest thing. No. It's a science. Talking to me, I, I, I'm like, all I'm doing is like, it's, it's these dishes. I don't have to worry about all the noise around. And that, and that is the whole thing, right? Like, as we start taking each and every, you know, rung of the ladder that, you know, we, we go up.

• 19:50Speaker 01

  The noise starts, it's louder. The noise is louder, the responsibility is more. There is so much more that you've got to do. And I think that's the critical part about it. But you've got to realize like it is even when I travel, I've got two young kids and the amount of guilt I live with is a lot. And and that's what it is like, I'm like, you know, when I leave the restaurant, the guilt is a lot.

• 20:13Joe Flamm?

  Mm hmm.

• 20:14Speaker 01

  You constantly have to figure out that what is the bigger picture over here? What works better for the entire unit as a whole?

• 20:23Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  And and you've got to kind of like, everybody has a a job to do. And if we, you know, work in harmony, then the entire ship goes up. And I think that's, that's, that's how maybe I'm convincing myself, but that's.

• 20:38Joe Flamm?

  No, we have to convince ourselves. We have to, you know what I mean? Nobody else is gonna. And it's like, I I feel that like what you said of like, I feel guilt of not being at the restaurant when I'm not there. I feel guilt of not being with my children when I'm not here. And it's like, you know, it's like you have these two things. And I think, you know, one of the most beautiful things you said, and I, this is something I strive for, and I still, you know, probably suck at. But like, you're like, wherever I am, I'm a hundred percent in on that. And I think like that is, yeah, there's no balance in the ship, right? You know what I mean? You can't have balance going a hundred miles an hour. You just, you know, you're just trying to survive. And so like, our idea of balance is not everyone else's idea of balance. Our idea of balance is just like, you know, everything's still going. You know what I mean?

• 21:23Joe Flamm?

  Forward is now.

• 21:27Joe Flamm?

  Right, I haven't, haven't fallen over yet, let's go.

• 21:30Adrienne Cheatham?

  Because you guys have so much in common with this. And when Joe and I have talked separately, you know, aside from like recording, I know that this is something that like, he still carries that guilt of like, if I'm not in the restaurant, like, people are going to think I'm not true to it. Or my team is going to doubt my like fidelity. I'm like, dude, get over yourself, like.

• 21:48Joe Flamm?

  Right.

• 21:48Adrienne Cheatham?

  You know, and he's like.

• 21:49Joe Flamm?

  I'm like, I'm like, oh, they're gonna think I don't, they're they're gonna think I don't work hard.

• 21:53Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 21:53Speaker 01

  They think that I'm lazy.

• 21:55Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  You know what? I I swear, I don't know why we live with that. I was having a conversation with Antonia where she's like, if you think there is one person in this entire world who thinks that you're lazy, right? That is never a fact. So you really don't have to push yourself extra. Do what you want to. And I'm like.

• 22:12Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 22:12Joe Flamm?

  Right, and I don't.

• 22:15Joe Flamm?

  You say that to me out loud and I'm like, I completely agree, but also I was sitting there last night feeling guilty because it was like 8:30 and I was like, I should get out of here. So I'm home in time for bedtime and I can put the kids to bed and then like, maybe get some work done after I put the kids to bed, even though I had worked a super long day, but I was doing other stuff. So I wasn't like running service because we're working on new menu stuff for the new restaurant. And I'm like, oh, everybody's going to think I'm just like a piece of shit, etc.

• 22:42Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right, right. And that goes back to like you guys were saying earlier, like chefs are just, I think we're wired differently, right? Like, we want to take on everybody else's burdens. We want to feed people. We want to make people happy and spread love and spread joy in this world. And because we're wired differently, we usually have things that we're proud of, but it's not always what we're known for. So Chef Maneet, is there something in your career that you're super proud of an accomplishment that you had personally or professionally, but you feel like it's not something that people know about you?

• 23:18Speaker 01

  To me, I would literally think that if I am in a room or if I'm filming or whatever I'm doing, if I walk away from that scenario and even if I have made five people feel good about themselves, I think I've had a good, you know, a good day. And that to me is pretty much like professional accomplishments are different, but I think in today's day and age, people second guess themselves, people like, you know, they push themselves, they're so hard on themselves. So even if I can make five people feel good about themselves, then I think, to me, I think that's the one thing which I'm most proud of. Like if I

• 23:59Speaker 01

  can just spread some kind of joy, like if people hear my name and there's a smile on their face. That is something which is more important to me than, you know, any, any like professional accomplishments.

• 24:13Adrienne Cheatham?

  Maneet, I think you're being way too modest. I think that when you look at certain cuisines in this country, right? You look at what Youngsik did for Korean cuisine and you look at how that spread. When we've had this conversation on the show before, we've talked about how all food is ethnic food. When it enters the conversation, right? French went through it, Italian food went through it, southern cuisine or African American cuisine.

• 24:38Speaker 01

  How does it get to going through it?

• 24:40Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, it's like everything is going through it. But you know, you look at people who were at the forefront of bringing Indian cuisine to the conversation, to the culinary table of America. And you think about chefs like Floyd Cardo's, you know, in New York. And he was a huge name in that. But I think on the other side of that, you did just as much with Vermillion, bringing Indian cuisine to the serious conversation and to the canon of what we look at as like high profile restaurants in the U.S. So you may not say that that's like an accomplishment. But you know, for somebody who sees these cuisines as they grow, you know, you see like Rossica in DC,

• 25:23Adrienne Cheatham?

  which is a restaurant that did that as well. It's like Vermillion, Rossica, Floyd Cardo's restaurants in New York. It's like those are restaurants that.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  And now look at the number of Indian restaurants which are opening in New York, which is incredible.

• 25:39Joe Flamm?

  And Chicago, Chicago, it's going nuts. You know, you have Indian, that's a Michelin star Indian restaurant in Chicago. Like when you were running Vermillion, could you imagine like the idea in your mind of like you were a 20 year old line cook today? You could walk in and work at, you know, a one or two, you know, Michelin star restaurant in New York or Chicago. Like that must be kind of wild.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Not, not with, not with the kind of food that I wanted to do, which is actually, you know, when I went to see the second time and it was blind tasting, which to me, I think is, is so incredible.

• 26:11Adrienne Cheatham?

  TLC for anybody who doesn't know is tournament champion.

• 26:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, so I, the second time was on two Indian dishes. One was Indian street food, which was like a sloppy joe, like, you know, a kima pow. And the second one was a gushdaba, which was a Kashmiri like goat meatball. And the fact that.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  This was unabashedly like, I'm like, this is it, Meneh. Show your flavors. You really don't have to tame it down. And I do think that that was the, to me, winning on those flavors on a platform that high wa- was huge for me. Which is the same, like even when Floyd had done, you know, the, uh, the, uh, Top Chef Masters, right? He won on this upma, which is, you know, pedestrian, everyday breakfast item. And we, I'm like, those are moments that young people see. And they are like, okay, I'm a part of this American, uh, tapestry. I'm not, I'm not outside it. And I think that is more powerful.

• 27:17Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, to know that your food can be considered in those conversations. Like when I go to a city and I'm looking, what are the top five, 10 restaurants? Where can I get a reservation? It's not by category of cuisine. Like you look up the top restaurants in New York, Damika and Semma are coming up in that. It doesn't matter that they're Indian or that they're specific regions of Indian cuisine. They're in that conversation just as much as French, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Mexican.

• 27:46Joe Flamm?

  Right. You don't have to search it out anymore. It'd be like, oh, we want. I was lucky enough, I worked at Spiajo with Tony Montuano. And I remember like finding his old menus from like 1984. And like, you know, and for like Italian food at that time, when they opened that restaurant and they were like, oh, we're gonna do like really fancy Italian food. People were like, yeah, you're gonna be out of business in, you know, six months. And like reading the menus and they're doing, you know, now stuff that's like so simple of the idea. But it was like, he had a farfalle dish with cherry tomatoes and arugula. And I was like, people must have lost their fucking minds for that in 1984. They must have been like, what the fuck is this boat high pasta? He's like, dude, they were, he's like, I was blowing minds.

• 28:27Joe Flamm?

  He's like, nobody had seen arugula. Nobody had seen arugula. They were like, what is this green? And he's like, he's like, they thought I was like inventing shit. He's like, it was crazy. And I was just like, you know, like cooking Italian food, like from Italy. And you know, and, and, you know, like, obviously, you know, like, you know. Stayed for thirty seven years. It was official to our restaurant, but it was like, that was my favorite thing. So it like kind of, you know, in my mind, um, like correlated a lot like in my head when we were, we were talking about you yesterday and just thinking of like seeing all these restaurants blow up now.

• 29:00Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 29:00Joe Flamm?

  And like where, you know, it started, where it's gone and, you know, God only knows where it'll go. So it's just, it's just, it's fucking cool.

• 29:09Adrienne Cheatham?

  And Maneet, what is one dish that like, if you're gonna go to an Indian restaurant in any city, what are some of the things that you look for on the menu to say like, oh, this place is just kind of catering to the American takeout market or this place is legit?

• 29:26Speaker 01

  I definitely look into chaats. So chaats are these Indian street food translated from Hindi. It means to lick. Uh, it, it's also, uh, the name of my cookbook. See?

• 29:40Joe Flamm?

  God damn, you're good. God damn, you're good, chef. You flew that right in there.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  Slid it into it, but.

• 29:47Joe Flamm?

  It was just made for you to like pull it up from a.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  I know, I'm like.

• 29:51Joe Flamm?

  So how did you get a link on there?

• 29:54Speaker 01

  Right, right over there. Click over here for the link. But to me, uh, chaats, to me, I literally think that the best chefs around the world are street food chefs. And I call them chefs because they have limited resources, be it the ingredients they get, the refrigeration, the cooking, et cetera, especially like in Southeast Asian countries where all they have is a small table and that's what they are churning out deliciousness, right? It's mind blowing, right? You are like, not only are they figuring, estimating how much they have to make, they are getting all of these incredible flavors.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  They are serving and collecting money while they are cooking. Like to me, it's just fascinating. And that's why this book was an ode to them, right? Like it was all of the street food. So again, uh, Indian street food is something who anybody who's grown up in India or ever has gone and tried it, we have a very particular place in our heart for it because it is. It's nostalgia, it's deliciousness, it's just texture, flavors, everything good in life in that one bite. And if a restaurant is paying homage to that, to this is Indian food, because not many people know about it. And if they're paying homage to that, you know, they automatically get a check in my, you know, on my list.

• 31:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  Two that I love so much, Minit, and I saw you have one of them on your menu at least, is pani puri.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 31:23Adrienne Cheatham?

  Which is these little crispy balls and they're filled with like potato and tamarind water and herbs and chilies. It's like a little flavor bomb. You like.

• 31:33Speaker 01

  It's like, it looks like a ping pong ball.

• 31:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  It looks like a ping pong ball and it's, and you have to eat it in one bite, otherwise you'll be wearing it. It is so good. And when you come to Nashville or Orlando, you've got to try it. I think our water has some magic in it. So yeah, I can't, I mean, that's what I want to eat. So I want everybody to eat that.

• 31:51Adrienne Cheatham?

  I love that. And I love belpuri.

• 31:54Speaker 01

  So we do have belpuri in, in our Orlando location. We call it the puffed rice salad because again, we are in Disney. So we want it to be, you know, a little bit more approachable, but we do, but we do have that.

• 32:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, I love those. And these are things that I was like, where have these been my whole life? Because growing up, I, living in Florida also, I only saw, you know, like the greatest hits. I feel like it's kind of like soul food, where everybody knows fried chicken and collard greens, cornbread, biscuits, but they don't know some of the small regional dishes that I grew up eating and my family made, like in Mississippi. And when I discovered like some of these chops, I was like, oh, there's so much more to this cuisine. And like, I need this. I need more of it.

• 32:42Joe Flamm?

  Well, and I feel like also like there just wasn't a lot of Indian food like on the south side too. Like it's all on the north side of Chicago for some reason. But like, it just wasn't down here. And I never really ate it until like, you know, I moved to the north side. And then I was like, oh, this, you know, fucking rules. Like this is awesome.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  It's like Devon and stuff, right? It's been around for such a long time, like both Indian Pakistani, right? Food, but also at times you want somebody who knows it to take you over there.

• 33:14Joe Flamm?

  Yes.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  The first time, so that you can, like, I remember the first time when I was at the CIA, one of my roommates, she was from Hong Kong. And she took me to a Hong Kong style dim sum place in Brooklyn and I had never had that. And that was because she did that, I became less intimidated walking into any Chinatown, finding a Hong Kong style dim sum place and just pointing at everything which came in front of me. So I guess, I guess that is it. If, once you go with somebody, it kind of unlocks that, that hesitation or that fear. You kind of need like a cultural ambassador.

• 33:51Joe Flamm?

  Yes, there's no greater like luxury, I think, in dining than going to a restaurant with somebody wildly familiar with that cuisine. You know, it's like when I've gotten to eat in Italy with like Tony and Missy, you know what I mean? Or when, uh, you know, the first time, you know, Bill Kibb took me to Korea barbecue and I got to do it with him and I was like, oh, this is awesome. And you know, like getting that insider, when you get to do it with somebody who's like, let me show you how to do this.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 34:18Joe Flamm?

  It's like, that's such an important part of like learning as a chef too. You mean as a cook of like, you need somebody who's like your little, you know, like spirit guide on this journey. Who's like, I'm gonna show you, like, you know, and like for me, I'm like, what, what is mine? Like, I'm gonna show you how to properly eat a beef at seventy-six in Pulaski. You know what I mean? Like, we're gonna go to Tony's, I'm gonna make sure nobody fucking punches you in the face and you get the beef the right way. Uh, but like, but any of those things, I think it's, it's like the coolest. Like, you know, when you're talking through that, I'm just like, oh my God, can I just like? I just want to go on a trip and just be like, well, I just like follow you around. It's like, I'll carry your bags. I'm very good at carrying stuff. I'm built, I'm built to carry things.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Let's do this. Next time that I'm in Chicago, let's go to Devon. I think it'll be so fun.

• 35:07Joe Flamm?

  Done. I'll pick you up.

• 35:09Speaker 01

  You know, they used to be right opposite, like, of course, when I was there, right opposite Kendall, they used to be a, they used to be a taxi, uh, taxi, uh, joint, right? Because it was open really late. It was, you know, Indian.

• 35:24Joe Flamm?

  I know exactly what you're talking about.

• 35:25Speaker 01

  Right? And after we would wrap up, that is where we would go. We would either go to, um, Bijan's.

• 35:32Joe Flamm?

  Oh, God. You're the second mention of Bijan's. Chris and Kish was talking about go to Bijan's.

• 35:38Speaker 01

  Vivek and I, we used to do that. We used to shut the restaurant, walk over to Bijan's and we used to have a whole, like, you know, so now whenever we go to Chicago, we have to stop at Bijan's just for, you know, like, that's the time we would just, you know, we would just, we had just gotten married, right? So it was like, uh, all of these amazing memories, but yeah. So we had all of these places which were open late night and we knew exactly where to get food.

• 36:04Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, that's great. In Chicago, I've definitely been to Bijan's and in New York, I feel like there are certain neighborhoods that are open late. But surprisingly, a lot of the food that we would eat after work in, in New York was like bar food. Until I discovered K-Town and that was because I had a couple coworkers from, who had gone to the CIA. Uh, the, you know, the, the big culinary school upstate New York where you went, Maneet. And they were like, oh, no, no, no, we're not getting fried wings tonight. Like you guys, we're, we're going to Koreatown, near Penn Station, near Madison Square Garden, like in that area.

• 36:40Adrienne Cheatham?

  And, oh my God, I was like, I can get this at four AM. I can like grill, call me steak and like vegetables and like eat good food at four AM.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  And do some karaoke while you are.

• 36:53Joe Flamm?

  See, we we used to go to Maxwell Street and get bone in pork chop sandwiches and Polish sausages.

• 36:59Speaker 01

  It was, uh, um, I think, uh, Upper East Side, there there was a French place which was called La Bateau Iver. And that is the one place that they used to have wonderful French wines, great French food. So Vivek and I, that's where we used to go when we were in New York. Like, you know, you get a nice bottle of wine, you get some like nice garlic escargot and you're like, okay, life is, life is good.

• 37:26Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes, you'll have to take me there when you're in New York.

• 37:28Joe Flamm?

  What's the one in New York, the like, super famous one? It's, uh, Blue Ribbon? Are they still up? They used to be open.

• 37:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  Blue Ribbon downtown. They were, yeah. That was, uh, I think the Bromberg Brothers owned that and they were open to like four a.m. When I lived in Brooklyn.

• 37:43Joe Flamm?

  They were judges on our season of Top Chef.

• 37:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  And go there. That's right. Yep. Sure. We're a restaurant wars.

• 37:49Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 37:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  Um, I used to like stop there.

• 37:51Joe Flamm?

  We we did pretty well on that one.

• 37:54Adrienne Cheatham?

  I mean, we did. Okay. You know, you know, not like a tournament, a championship winner, tournament champions, two time winner.

• 38:00Joe Flamm?

  Two times, two times.

• 38:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  Double up.

• 38:03Joe Flamm?

  She's like, don't, don't, don't miss the second one, girl.

• 38:05Speaker 01

  I I'm like still, I'm still trying to figure out like, really? It just happened? Like I was, I like, it was so funny. I I remember the second time I'm like, there's no way that it's going to happen again. I'm I'm standing right over there and I'm like practicing my, uh, you know, consolation speech, like congratulations and all of that. And they told me and I fell down. And you know, it was also on my birthday. The finale was on my birthday and I was like just thinking about it. I'm like, this would suck big time. I'm like, this is like, this would be the worst birthday ever. And then it ended up being the best. So I'm like.

• 38:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  Well, Joe beat me on International Women's Day.

• 38:39Joe Flamm?

  It wasn't on International Women's Day. All right. All right. So.

• 38:44Speaker 01

  How could you do something of that?

• 38:45Joe Flamm?

  Our finale episode aired on International Women's Day. And some lady like grilled me in a tweet. It was like really odd International Women's Day, like you do. It was like, I was like, this is filmed nine months ago.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  You should have said, you, your answer should have been, I believe in equality. So that is why.

• 39:07Joe Flamm?

  I'm sure that would have went over really well.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  It's like, yeah, this morning I got up and I got a message on Instagram. They're like, learn English or go back. And I was like, I said, first of all, this is constructed really wrong. I said, and go back where? Like, you know, like, should I go back to school? Should I go back to India? Should I go back to Chicago? Should I go back?

• 39:28Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, if they were saying, go back to Chicago, you should come back. It's great. We would love to have you. Like, if that's a suggestion, then yeah, come on, come on, fucking buy.

• 39:38Adrienne Cheatham?

  If Vivek is down to move back to New York, come on.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, no, not till the kids are not in college. That's it.

• 39:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, the stuff people say is wild.

• 39:50Adrienne Cheatham?

  I think it's time for you to come clean with a walk-in confession. We all have stories from earlier in our career where we know the manique that you are now, but we've all made mistakes. We've dropped stuff on the floor. We had to make purees on the fly.

• 40:06Joe Flamm?

  We've had to crack some eggs to make some omelets in our day.

• 40:09Adrienne Cheatham?

  You know, all that fun stuff. So what is a funny story from your days as a younger cook, younger chef, that you may not tell too often, but you know, we're in a safe space. You can share with us.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  You and a million other people.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  So many stories. So I don't know if you know this about me. My entire culinary education has been baking and pastry arts. When I was in India, I wanted to be a pastry chef. I wanted to be a wedding cake maker because that time in India, that was something that you didn't see a lot of. So when I came to the CIA, I wanted to be a pastry chef. So right after graduation, I was working at a place and I had made this entire, you know, I had made this gorgeous wedding cake. There was a event going on and I had made this gorgeous wedding cake, right? Like it was eight tiers and all of that, but it had these dividers in between. So you know, when you're like assembling a cake, you have the cake table, you go and assemble

• 41:13Speaker 01

  the different tiers on the table.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  So I did that and I, you know, finished it. And I am walking past the dance floor and I turn and I'm very lovingly looking at, you know, my labor of love and hard work. I have not slept for a couple of days to do that and, and all of that great stuff. Where the uncle of the bride decides that they want to go ahead and move the entire table. So I can see this entire thing happening in slow motion, okay? Oh, no. He's picking up the, and I'm like.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  So, I'm like, the wedding is about to start. Oh, it hadn't even started yet. Oh, no, no, no, it hadn't started.

• 42:02Joe Flamm?

  Oh, nobody's even seen the fucking cake.

• 42:04Speaker 01

  The bride and the groom had not seen it. It was, um, and it was, and what I used to do was, because a lot of these were Indian weddings, the work that I used to do was really intricate. It was like fondant with, you know, how you have, like, you know, this earring or how the Indian clothes are, that's what I used to do. Oh, my gosh. So at that moment, I send, this was in New Jersey, so we used to have Jewel Osko over there, right?

• 42:32Joe Flamm?

  Oh, yeah.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  I sent somebody to go and, and buy some cake. While you're, and they're like, and I used to do exotic flavors like mango and lychee and all of that, right? You don't get mango and lychee.

• 42:49Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I was like, I was like, what jewel in fucking Jersey is like, oh, you want the mango lychee cake?

• 42:54Speaker 01

  I know, exactly, like, what, what you looking, so anyway, I sent somebody to go and buy like, you know, ten different cakes. In the meantime, and let's, like, like when you talk about, like, you know, why I'm good at competition cooking, I think it's because of this like fucked up experience, right? And like, the bride and the groom are about to come, this uncle thinks that he is like God's gift to humankind and I'm like, in the kitchen and I was like swearing in the kitchen in each and every Hindi swear word possible. I'm like, he is, oh, bleeping, bleep, bleep, bleep. In Hindi, I'm going away.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  While my chef in the front is looking at me and he's going like this and I turn and that guy is standing right, right behind me, right? And I'm like, I don't freaking care.

• 43:42Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, you're like, I'll fight this guy right fucking now.

• 43:44Speaker 01

  No, I can't even, right? I had, I had the florist get all the flowers uh within half an hour, like the cake that I had spent three days making. Oh. I made that in like literally half an hour it took for them to get all the cakes. I'm like putting it together. I had buttercream o- over it, put flowers on top of it. I'm like, boom, send it out. I was like, and, and I think I'm like, you know, like the last thing that, whatever, I was lucky that the bride and groom didn't come running to me and saying that, oh, you know, what this didn't work or whatever, like this wasn't the cake that you told us.

• 44:25Speaker 01

  But yeah, so, so that was, that was one of it. And then the second one was when I was uh in Chicago. I used to be very particular about New Years. Okay, New Years, we used to do all of these prefixes. I'm like eleven fifty-five, I have to go and change. I'm not going to welcome New Years in my chef uniform. It has to be in one of my fancy. So my sous chef, he told me that he's like, I'm going to make a, uh, you know, Irish out of you. So what he meant by that was a bottle of Jameson. Jameson. Okay, you know those Jigger shots, right? Like, poke in the bottom. So we were in the store, like, you know, in our store room.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  Between the two of us, we finished the entire bottle, right? But then I'm also the chef, so I, it has to be equal opportunity, right? So that means that each and every person who came up to me, they're like chef, shots, and I had made these really like cool Jello shots, like lychee, guava, all of that. So I, like, I, I did shots with everyone.

• 45:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  DJ was there. I might or might have not have been dancing on the bar. You know, who knows? This is Chicago. Okay. December 31st, January 1st of Chicago. I had this really like this strapless dress that I was dancing in, whatever. We shut the restaurant. I left without my jacket. Thank God for, you know, some of my friends who took me to, so I used to live right on, you know, Ohio and Lake Shore Drive. Right? They dropped me. You know, there was the doorman and, you know, I got in. My apartment was 2815.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  I spent an hour trying to open the door of 2515.

• 46:18Speaker 01

  An hour. I'm like, why is this not opening? Great. Thank God there was nobody there. Otherwise I literally would have been, uh, yeah. Uh, and then I think, yeah, finally I did go up and crashed out. And the next morning, my sister and brother-in-law, they live right over there. They came over for brunch. We went to Riza's and I spent the entire lunch in the restroom throwing up.

• 46:43Joe Flamm?

  Oh, my God.

• 46:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:46Joe Flamm?

  That is a...

• 46:47Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 46:49Joe Flamm?

  That's a top-tier Chicago New Year's Eve right there. That's how you know you really lived in Chicago. You're like, I went home when it's... You didn't really live in Chicago. If you never left a bar, you know, when it was freezing cold out without a coat because you had too many Jameson shots. You know what I mean? That's, that's, that is like, you know...

• 47:06Adrienne Cheatham?

  Well, and I haven't lived because thank God I have not done that.

• 47:10Joe Flamm?

  I'm ashamed. Adrian, I'm ashamed of you.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  I know. Okay. This, this holiday, we've got to do that.

• 47:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  Lenny, we have a couple of minutes left, so I want to do a really, really quick turn and burn. And this is very fast answer. This or that kind of style. You ready?

• 47:32Speaker 01

  Never, but yes.

• 47:35Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay. So when it comes to television cooking shows, judging or competing?

• 47:40Speaker 01

  Competing.

• 47:41Joe Flamm?

  Oh.

• 47:43Adrienne Cheatham?

  Going out for a few bites, dumplings or tacos?

• 47:48Speaker 01

  Dumplings.

• 47:50Adrienne Cheatham?

  Hmm. A drink after a long shift in the kitchen, bourbon or beer?

• 47:57Speaker 01

  Sparkling wine.

• 47:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  All right. Going to a steakhouse, ribeye or porterhouse?

• 48:06Speaker 01

  Ooh, ribeye.

• 48:09Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay. Uh, pick me up in the morning, coffee or chai?

• 48:16Speaker 01

  Chai.

• 48:20Adrienne Cheatham?

  And then a little sweet treat before bed. Are you going dark chocolate or milk chocolate?

• 48:26Speaker 01

  Dark.

• 48:27Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, okay. Thank you.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  That is a big problem. The kids like in the morning, like bedside, they are wrappers. I know it's such bad like, you know, like habits, but they are wrappers of chocolate. I have a big problem. And then I find like they, for the longest time, it was the Lindt dark chocolate. Now it's, have you tried the human chocolate?

• 48:51Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes, yeah.

• 48:52Joe Flamm?

  No.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  So good, especially.

• 48:54Joe Flamm?

  Human?

• 48:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:55Joe Flamm?

  Or you make it from human?

• 48:56Speaker 01

  H U. And it's in this brown, um.

• 48:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  Paper wrapper.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  Paper wrapped thing and it's, it's like, it's limited ingredients, but it is so good. And then it has hazelnut butter or cashew butter or almond butter. And it is so good.

• 49:11Joe Flamm?

  All right.

• 49:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's.

• 49:12Joe Flamm?

  All right, all right. I'm into it.

• 49:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, you should try it. They're good.

• 49:16Joe Flamm?

  Might have to get myself a little sweet treat today.

• 49:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes. Well, chef, thank you so much for joining us. It is always a pleasure to hang out with you and it has been a blast today.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you so much.

• 49:29Joe Flamm?

  So fun. You're amazing. Um, you're a great storyteller and you know, we're both just huge fans of yours. So thank you for taking the time. You're very busy schedule. So. Um, and you let me know when you're coming to Chicago.

• 49:40Speaker 01

  For inviting me to this fun party.

• 49:43Adrienne Cheatham?

  Tell everybody where they can find you, chef.

• 49:46Speaker 01

  Um, I am really, uh, active on Instagram, Maneet Chauhan. Uh, but on all my socia's, it's Maneet Chauhan.

• 49:54Adrienne Cheatham?

  That is it for this episode of the chef's cut. Be sure to subscribe wherever you're listening, especially if you're watching us on YouTube, where you can find full length video episodes of the show and follow us at the chef's cut pod on IG. For Joe Flamm, I'm Adrian Cheatham, and this has been the chef's cut. Life beyond the past.