Marcus Samuelsson on Top Chef Success, Bouncing Back From Failure, and Showing Up!! (Part 2 of 2)

Adrienne and Joe welcome back Chef Marcus Samuelsson for Part 2 of their conversation, diving deep into the art of mentorship, surviving business failures, the power of plant-forward cooking, and what it takes to build a lasting legacy in food. In this episode, we also discuss: Preparing mentee chefs for high-pressure platforms like Top Chef Building team confidence, granting creative ownership, and protecting mentor relationships Lessons from failure: how the closure of Merkato led directly to the success of Red Rooster Staying hands-on on the line while expanding a multi-faceted culinary career Food tech, raising global visibility for African cuisine, and social media’s impact on young chefs Marcus’s new cookbook and bringing plant-forward ingredients into everyday home cooking Early-career disasters: Marcus’s New Year’s Eve mishap in Switzerland Follow Marcus: @marcuscooks Follow the show: @chefscutpod Follow Adrienne: @chefadriennecheatham Follow Joe: @insta.flamm

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:15Adrienne Cheatham?

  Welcome back to the chef's cut. Today we are back for part two of our conversation with celebrity chef Marcus Samuelsson. If you haven't yet heard part one, go ahead and check out our last episode for the full story.

• 0:35Adrienne Cheatham?

  So how does it feel watching your chefs go do like Top Chef and like those things like Tristan won last season, you had Anthony on this year, you had me on before. Like, what does it feel like when these people that you've mentored and helped shape, you kind of send them out into the world and hope that they make it. But what is that feeling like?

• 0:57Speaker 01

  Well, I think it's hard for them because I don't send them out until they're ready. And I would say like, listen, it's not about winning or but I'm like, I did well, Adrian did well, you know, T did well. So if you're gonna represent, you don't have to win, but you have to represent us well, right? Because winning is kind of like, it's really out of your, like, so many things gotta happen. But you can be sixth or seventh and have a huge impact, like, like someone like Nina or someone like Naisha, right? Like, they are amazing. They don't have to win, but it's like, they had impact larger than themselves or Kamari, whatever it is, like amazing people. So I think, make sure and, you know, if you're not ready, like, I'm not calling top, not because you're

• 1:42Speaker 01

  not good enough cook, but maybe there's other things going on in your life and you're just not ready. Because you're gonna get on when you're at that level. Like, I knew Anthony would get on. It was just about when, right? I knew Sherri would get on. It was just about a matter of when.

• 1:56Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yep, Sherri you had this year.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's for me, it's not about winning because that's so esoteric. There's so many things that happen, but.

• 2:04Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, winning doesn't matter.

• 2:08Speaker 01

  You got to say that back and forth.

• 2:09Adrienne Cheatham?

  Says the person who won Top Chef Masters and the person who won Top Chef. Okay, just saying.

• 2:15Speaker 01

  But it's really mentally, you gotta be ready. That's it, you know?

• 2:19Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, it's such a mental thing. And I think, you know, it brings up such a great point where, you know, you said you wanted to do this and you've done this, you know, I mean, these chefs you've mentored, you've brought some. I think when we were talking to Tristan, maybe he was talking about it. And he said, you know, you'll call him up or you'll call Adrian up and you'll be like, hey, who's the next person? You mean, who's the next person I need to talk to? But like, when you sit down with these, how do you, how do you look at talent when you're, when you're finding a chef for a new spot and you have to sit down for a person for, you know what I mean? Is it them cooking for you? Is it questions you ask? Like, I'm just so curious about like, you know, because you've done it so well. Like, how do you begin that process?

• 2:56Speaker 01

  Well, some people can sneak up on you, right? Like Tristan is a cooks, cooks, cooks. Camera, no camera. Tristan and I will always think about food for good or bad, right? We're always in our head. If I text him right now, he's like, I was just thinking about this pork belly. I guarantee you like, like that's Tristan. And I'm very similar in that way. Like, like we're always, I know, like Tristan is for me, like a cooks, cooks, cook, always. Someone like Anthony that is a little more introverted, but skill wise, incredible. So with Anthony, you gotta pull it out and kind of push him and say like, you can do this. You, no, no, that's not good. That's incredible. Keep

• 3:38Speaker 01

  working on that idea. That idea is not great. So with Anthony, he was more, he took time, it's years, you know, Anthony and I, it's six years, you know? And, you know, now he's completely fluent and can do all the things. So it's really, everyone is unique in their own way. There's also a lot of cooks in my tree that are not famous, but are just hugely influential in our team. I would say someone like Kingsley, for example, that everyone that ever worked with me knows things like Paul would say, who's your uncle? King is your uncle.

• 4:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yep.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  Tristan, who's your uncle? King is your uncle.

• 4:18Adrienne Cheatham?

  Kingsley. I went to see him in his pop up here. Yeah, Kingsley is the man.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Guys that are part of my tribe that I couldn't like, now like Chef Ed and Greg, you know, Chef Ed has this incredible hip hop series where he links rappers to food. Ed is the guy. Greg is the guy. Like Greg is like incredible chef. So without the team that very often informs me, no, you should look at this person. Because maybe I see to the sous chefs, or maybe even to senior line cook, but Ed and Greg can see the person prepped and be like, no, no, no, no, don't sleep on Diane. Don't sleep on this person. She came up with that. And that's how we pull them forward.

• 5:07Adrienne Cheatham?

  The creativity and the level of ownership that you give the chefs is also something that that I was telling Joe about. You know, he leads his team. He's, you know, four restaurants in Chicago. So he leads his team in, in a similar way to what I saw you do when I was, you know, with you and what I see you do with your teams now. Still, it's like, I told, I told them that when I was at La Bernardine, you would put up a dish to go on the menu and it could take months to get to the menu. It could take tweaking, all this stuff. Whereas working with you, you're like, what special are you running tonight? I'm like, oh, I don't know. We got such and such in and I'm playing with this. I'll bring it up. Maybe by the end of the week, I got it. You're like, just run it. Run it

• 5:51Adrienne Cheatham?

  tonight. Get feedback, get guests, send it to a couple of regulars, see what they have to say. And by the way, I'll be back at the restaurant in a couple hours. So fire one off for me then. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm not used to this level of freedom. So you do put a lot of trust in your teams. And that was something that I hadn't seen before either, working in hotels and restaurants was that level of trust that you give the chefs.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  And a couple of, I do it with the people that were ready, right? For you, I always feel that you were under, you had a lot of food in you and you were underrepresented. And the two things I always like went back for you was, she's a former dancer. So she has discipline, work ethic is not going to be an issue. You come from Chicago, from the South. So grit is not going to be an issue. Like, actually, so like these, because we didn't know each other that well. So I'm like, no, look at her. She, and she worked at La Bernardine. So technique is not going to be an issue. Hershey's gonna actually be confidence and get feedback. And when she's overthinking it. And when she, she just doesn't know, like, how do you pair Mississippi with Chicago, right? Like, where is that?

• 6:56Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, my God, I feel so called out.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  No. So for me, it was more about, no, she needs actually to put more stuff out there and get called on when it's what the difference between good to great, you know? And like, everything's going to be at a certain level. Everything's going to be good. And I always felt, you know, with you, it's always like, I always want to see Mississippi more and, and France less. Because I think you were like, nope, delicious is like the southern side. And, and you are leaning always more France, which is great. That's you. So it's like, if your food is not my food, it's your food, you know? But like, just from the beats, like I know about, I said, no, Adrian's gonna be prepped. The technique's gonna be flawless. She's gonna work really hard at it. And there are notes there that

• 7:43Speaker 01

  is very classical. And then whenever she dares to go to the South, it's gonna be incredible.

• 7:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  Wow, chefs. Wow, that's so exciting.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  That's reality, you know?

• 7:55Joe Flamm?

  But I think that just explains why, like, you've been so successful as a mentor, though. It's like, you could tell, like, the way you think about people is the same way you think about food, where it's like, you're dissecting every part of it. And you're like, different approach for different things, like they're different. That's like, it's such like, high level ball knowledge. You know what I mean? It's like watching a great coach or a great pitcher break down at bat. And it's just incredible. It's like, you know, like, obviously, you know Adrian really well now. But it's like, man, that was an absolute, you know, like perfection breakdown of Adrian's game and who she is. And it's just like, you could just see, it's like, oh, yeah, this is, this is, you know what I mean? This is why it works. Because like, your approach is so, you know, it's just incredible. It's intentional.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  But it's very personal, right? So if you don't have the right.

• 8:39Joe Flamm?

  It's personal. It's gotta be.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, like, I knew that. And now, you know, Adrian is much more in a different hemisphere in her life. So now we can talk about it in public. But until, like, we can go through many people and we'll do that. But it's for me, you don't trade that information to anybody unless that person says, hey, hey, we can talk about it. You know what I mean? Because that's the, that's the level of very intimate relationship you have with chefs, mentor, mentee. And if you break that code, you're done. Like, there's nothing to work with, you know?

• 9:13Joe Flamm?

  Because it's a relationship. It is a relationship. Like, I always tell people that. It's like, when I'm like, when you leave me, it's like the end of, you know what I mean? Like, it's just our relationship has changed. Like, you know, but when we're here together, it's like, yeah, it's constantly those conversations about like, all these little things they don't notice about themselves yet, right? Where you're like, oh, man, if I could just get them to, you know, the people who it's either like, they're really good and they don't see it yet. Or like, you know what I mean? They got way more hunger than they have skills yet. And you're like, we gotta get those skills there. Like, you really want it, but like, you don't have the ability. And it's just, you know, incredible.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  But I think also like, you know, people are very hung up on this. How our society are on successes. You know, I failed too. And I think with Mercado not working out, that's the reason why Rooster got so good. Because when I opened Mercado, flashy, forward, the most forward sort of like, Pan African restaurant anywhere, right? In the Meatpacking District, two floors, two hundred seats, let's go, right? And very modern African food. And it's Pan African from Morocco to Ethiopia to West Africa. But.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  It was kind of pre where we are now, the same writers that wrote about risotto

• 10:32Speaker 01

  should now write about South African pa or jollof rice. So the media side was not ready at that point. And so after that, we were doing 250 covers for like the first three, four weeks. But after that excitement, you know, maybe no one at that point had ever said, let's go, I'm really looking forward to have a West, you know, Pan African restaurant meal tonight. Right? So the audience, like social media is 2008, 2009 was not the same level as it is today. Right? So we hadn't really developed a, a, that push and pull that you have now where you have incredible writers, incredible social media. And then, you know, back then it was New York Times and Sagat's and maybe New York Magazine.

• 11:15Speaker 01

  Today you can do more because you have a much better landscape, both from the cook's side and the vision side, but also from the media and the audience side. I think that's why we're in much better place because it's much more diverse from all sides. But I took notes from that, right? Closing that was, we all talk about successful, but closing a restaurant is, every chef is the most painful thing. We all do it, we go go through it. Because being a chef, you're in charge of the dishwasher, you're in charge of the purveyors. And when you close, you feel like you let all of those, the community down. And rather than letting that really, I took notes and it was moments like, okay,

• 11:55Speaker 01

  New York City at this moment is ready for this much Africa, maybe more African American than Africa itself. And without that stop, Rooster would not happen. So I needed, I really needed that stop. It's not always fun to talk about, but it's part of the journey.

• 12:18Adrienne Cheatham?

  Because you have done seemingly everything that somebody could accomplish in the food space. And for people who see you as this super stylish, very accomplished chef, but you are still very much a cook's cook. Working in the restaurants, you come into the kitchen, you say hi to everybody on the line. As soon as you come into the restaurant, the front of house staff as well. I've seen you jump on stations before. I wasn't happy about it, but I've seen you jump on stations and expo in the kitchens before when we were completely weeded and you were there and you're like, what do you need me to do? I'll help bail out the line. I'm like, fuck chef, we need somebody on Garmo or I need you to expo and I jump on saute.

• 13:01Adrienne Cheatham?

  So people don't really know, you know, you, it's, it's easy to look at somebody on TV and think you know them, but not really know them. And as much as even I think I know you, I still don't know, because you've accomplished so much already, what is there left for you that you still see as things that you want to accomplish in your career?

• 13:25Speaker 01

  That's a great question. I'm very much in it, right? Like, trust me, Greg and Ed would love the fact that I would not, like yesterday we're cooking. I was like, no, this is not happening. This is how we're gonna do it. And I'm not gonna even ask you how to do it. This is how we're doing it. Come and check the note. But you know, I also feel like the day when I'm not doing that, like, this is why I got into food. I love cooking and I love thinking about this in different ways. Right? And I always said that to myself, the day I don't like, get excited about getting up and cooking, I should do something else. I've been very fortunate in my life. I can do many things or not do anything and I'll be all right. I love all the aspects in food.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  I think a lot about food tech, like where do we, in this fast moving space, how can we use tech to really improve and get more people have access to better food and better choices? So I think about that a lot and like, where do we fit in as chefs for that? Not just on the high end level, but actually on an everyday level too. So I think, you know, I think a lot about leaning in towards Africa and making sure that Africa as a continent get recognized the way it should get recognized. It's been great to see how the Caribbean has really become an equal partner of America's food.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  And that didn't happen without chefs like Nina, Kwame, Gregory, you can go down the list. But so it takes people and I'm, I'm excited about what Michael's gonna do with, uh, you know, from Nigeria with his cooking. And then, you know, I have some chef friends in the continent. So, you know, uh, you know, we have our restaurant in Addis and we have a school there. So I think about this a lot. Uh, also the Rice residency, like we just kicked it off this year.

• 15:18Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  And I always wanted to set up a residency for young chefs and people in the culinary space. I came to New York and most of my friends were artists or chefs. And the artist went away on residencies and I'm like, you're going to Japan, you're going to France. I've been to these places. I had to cook there. Do you have to paint there? They're like, no, we can if we want to, but we have the freedom to think and come back and figure out how we're gonna improve the space. And as when we did these stages, we all know, we worked 16 hours a day and we were broke. And I'm like, in order to improve, how can we create a better system? So we just launched a Rice Residence C this year and things like that, that more chefs

• 16:02Speaker 01

  can actually have the liberty to start thinking in an artistic way about themselves and how to, because everyone's not gonna be a line cook. Someone might be a photographer, someone might be setting up a food podcast. The fact that we have more choices today, it's not a bad thing, it's a good thing. But we also need to give ourselves that space and allow ourselves to do that. And people like myself, that has been fortunate, we have to figure out how to support the next jam, not block the next jam.

• 16:32Adrienne Cheatham?

  You have talked a bit about media and how that landscape has changed a bit. So I'm really curious, the Marcus that started cooking back when you were 16, 17 and the, the time that that was, there was no social media. There was maybe one or two international food magazines. Other than that, you had to physically travel to see stuff. Would you want to have started your career now in today's landscape? With social media, with the flow of information? Or do you like the style of the way things were when you came up?

• 17:11Speaker 01

  I think every era has an advantage and every era has something that they need to work on. Right? Like I think my father put up an article about Fugu, about blowfish. Said, read this article.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  And I was blown away like, whoa, I'm reading about, and I'm like 16 at the time. You know, I'm like, I put this article up and I'm like, if chef prepares it wrong, you can die.

• 17:39Speaker 01

  And I was working in small restaurants in Gotham at the time, learning about how to make pasta, learning, learning, just learning. And I knew like, I had to like move sort of, my Prince poster was there, my Michael poster was there. You know, my Run DMC was there. I was like, actually I had to make move and I had it on top of my bed. And I was just staring at it. I was like, what is this? And then one day I said to my dad, well, I, I wanna go to Japan. And he's like, oh, come back in six months. If you really wanna do it, save up some money and we'll talk about it. And typical my dad, he's like, you still wanna go? It's like, yes. So he put up one way ticket and I had to pay for the coming back ticket. But it got me there and I had blowfish, right? And I say that because today I could have done that on YouTube.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  But what I got from that 11 hour trip, you know, right next to bathroom 28 C or whatever it was, right? My desire never changed, landing in Tokyo, no internet. Figuring out with the family to stay with, learning about how to make matcha tea, going to the fish market, understanding that sushi essentially is a rice dish, warm rice dish with a little bit of fish. Learning about her mom. It's, I got all that stuff in learning about Fugu that I got to eat twice. But today I could have done all that on YouTube. So experiencing it in Tokyo for me was better.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  But you know, that's also coming from a privileged place, right? I had parent support, chef support. And I realized everyone doesn't have those circumstances. So I think we're better off today, but from a technique, I had no noise. I could just learn how to butcher something for three months. I could ju, like I had no social media, like my other friends were chef friends, right? And we had each other. So from that just like focus, it was easier in a way. But obviously influences, you get better influences today.

• 19:42Adrienne Cheatham?

  I'm glad I grew up before social media because God knows if half the stuff I did in my life bears no pictures of it and we're all, we're all happy about that.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  Well, I can go over to Lam's, I can go over Lam's barbecue and get the detail where Adrian, Adrian used to hang out on 50th, whatever that street is. I know Lam's.

• 20:01Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yep, 70th, 75th and 53rd.

• 20:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:13Adrienne Cheatham?

  Do you feel like today, young chefs are under pressure to build a personal brand too early in their careers?

• 20:22Speaker 01

  I never don't want to be the guy back in my day where we did like shitsy like not we're in this era and for me it comes down to like, we can talk about Anthony and Tristan for example, right? I think that live a good balance of both, like Tristan is not cooking because he's going to put it on social media, like he's cooking first and then it puts on social media, right? And I think everybody today have to do with what fits them, you know? Everyone is not going to be a food nerd like us, like we're a very rare tribe, like everybody that comes on this platform, we are very rare, right? But if you're an auntie and you are doing Ethiopian food and you can sell it on IG

• 21:06Speaker 01

  and your kids knows how to push it, why not? That's extra income. Food is not just this pressure place for us. It's such a big, beautiful tent. And I don't think what I, I saw that in Singapore, like, oh, because I was cooking at Raffles in Singapore, super high end, all of that stuff. But what I ate every day was at Harker's tents. So I knew there was a separation between my stuff and what I really dug. And I was always confused, like this street food here is better than what I'm cooking. But what am I doing? Why am I leaning towards this? Do I need three tablecloths in order to make my food taste good? How come this wakka, how come this ginger chicken?

• 21:52Speaker 01

  It's the, it's not even close that it's the best chicken I've ever had in my life. It's the best by far. So I was like, and that's again, going back to hip hop, like I do not have to be at Carnegie Hall only to appreciate music. I appreciate the guy on the subway, right? So you have to have clarity, why are you in this space? And it's going to come very rough days and it's going to come amazing days. So for us that are in food, I think you have to have clarity where you are and you can move that, right? You can be just a line cook or you can have a podcast or you can be on TV or you can bring whatever that it's, it's your journey, it'll be clear on your journey, you know, whatever that is.

• 22:32Joe Flamm?

  And it's, I, I think in your career is a great thing of like an evolution of like from fine dining to all these different things, the TV. And I'm sure like when you started, could have any of this have been, and you know, even in your wildest dreams, like all the things you've done, you know, you're like, I always wanted to come to New York, you came, you know, 30 years later, you're still there, you built an empire, you built, you know, a legacy, you bid on, you know, a billion shows, you got your, your newest cookbook's coming out in October.

• 22:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, Back to Green. Yes, very excited.

• 22:58Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, so is that, is that, is that number?

• 23:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, it, yeah, I'm very excited about it. Thank you for bringing it up. Jamila Robinson and I, we had really fun writing the book. It was really about how can you bring in super foods into everyday cooking, right? We know about chia seeds, we know about test, we hear about these ingredients that have been around surrounding, but you know, how do I bring that in? But then the other thing was like, wait a minute, all this food is in this sun belt, right? That kind of goes from Hawaii to Mexico to the Caribbean to West Africa, to Ethiopia, to India. And I'm like, let's focus on these, on this belt and it's still underrepresented, yet this is really how we eat today. So we again, highlighting some of the incredible chefs like Leanne Wong that I used to work

• 23:44Speaker 01

  with back in the day, it's in the book, like so many people that are amazing, that some I've worked with, some I've not worked with, but it's just like coming from this space. And we were all at some point trained to do French cooking, but also then go back to do our own food. And it's about health, it's about delicious, it's about that these ingredients, like if you want to make a jambajamb, if you want to make a mushroom rice today, right? You can, you can discover jambajamb, these amazing mushrooms from Haiti, right? And you can get them dry, like back in the day, you couldn't maybe get them here. Today you can get them because of internet, right? So like the excuses of you, if you can get salmon from Whole Foods, you can also get dried jambajamb rice, you know what I mean?

• 24:30Speaker 01

  So that the excuses are out, that are gone, like you, if you want to cook with a sense of palate and delicious, we're now at the stage where we can do that.

• 24:40Joe Flamm?

  Well, and I thought was interesting to me is like, you know, when I was kind of reading about this book and this more like vegetable focused book, is that like, this is nothing new for you, you know, talking about doing a vegetarian tasting menu at Aqua V in 96, you know what I mean? Which people must have just been like, you know, losing their minds about. But also like, I was reading a whole thing and I think it was, maybe it was 2010 where it was like, I think Obama had the, uh, was it the Prime Minister of India or ambassador from India came in and you kicked a vegetarian meal on the, on the South Lawn of the White House.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was the first day to her. Yeah, yeah.

• 25:15Joe Flamm?

  You, you know, so this is nothing new, but it's a culmination of those things. So I think it's just, it, it's one of those things, you know, to, to go back to where it's like, people are like, oh, this is, you know, just doing a healthy book now. It's like, no, this is what you've been doing for 30 years. It's like now you put pen to paper on it to share that journey. And I think that's really neat.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  It goes back to experiences that you can't, fine dining for me, very often gives you spaces of why are we doing this way? And we come up in a system where we're not supposed to ask why. And I'm like, you know, we do all these menus and then if you're vegetarian, oh, we got a spinach salad for you. I'm like, what? What just happened? We have all these pleural stomal options for anybody else and you're getting stuck with like that. I'm like, we can do better. So it came from like, let, oh, actually, let's not even have that uncomfortable place, right? Let's, let's create, I'm not vegetarian, but I'm leaning towards that today. So it's fluid, right? And I think everybody comes to something through their own lived experience.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  But as a black person, you come through these experiences, will there be anyone like me in the dining room? Will there be anyone like me in that kitchen? So you've been around uncomfort and questions so many times. So you like, you just wanted to be fluent and not focused on that. So you can relate that. Again, I relate my experience as a person into how I don't want it to be for the food, you know, so it's very sort of from the deepest core of why I think fine dining can do better? Because I know we can, you know, I just know we can.

• 26:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah. And in so many ways, and it, it, you're right, it is getting better, but it does take people to push it forward.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:05Adrienne Cheatham?

  And I feel like with this new book, there are touches of this new book that have popped up in, in Chasing Flavors, in some of your earlier books, where some of these components, some of these ingredients were very small players, they were side dishes, they were garnishes.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  She knows the back notes, I shouldn't have done this, it's a bad idea, I should have just stuck to you, John. This is bad.

• 27:26Adrienne Cheatham?

  I got your book, Chef.

• 27:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, you do.

• 27:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  I'm working on the Red Rooster cookbook now.

• 27:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  And I don't know if you ever knew this, but when I was still working at La Bernardine, you sent the manuscript to Eric Repair for Yes Chef. And I was working in the office at the time and he said, hey, Adrian, you went to journalism school, can you read this manuscript and help me write a blurb? I've, I've read it and I know the chef very well. And I'm like, oh my God, this is Marcus Samuelsson. So the blurb for your book that was written by Eric Repair way back when, I actually wrote. And I had to check the book, it did not make the cut. So apparently I did a really bad job.

• 28:14Joe Flamm?

  You, listen, hey, Chef explained it earlier, you weren't ready and he's not going to put you out there till you're ready. So you thought you were ready to do a blurb, you weren't, he was just protecting you from you, Adrian.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  Mix in five, mix in five. It's like, it's just like, covers everything, like, we put that on everything. It's like, me so, like, mix in five. Yeah, that's good, that's good.

• 28:44Joe Flamm?

  One thing we love to do, Chef, this is kind of our walk in confession is where we love to kind of tell one of those stories of coming up where it's like, you know, like we're either you got away with one where it's like you shouldn't have pulled off, everything was going sideways, or maybe you didn't. And it was one of those days where I think we've all had those days where like, this might be it. This might be the last one. This might be, you know, where I start picking up pamphlets of like, looking for a career change, you know. So, you know, if you take us back in the wayback machine, maybe give us one of your, one of your greats from the career.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  I'm in Switzerland. First of all, in Switzerland, in May, you got 60 commies, commies, you know, garçons, commies, whatever you want to call them in the kitchen. And by August, plenty are left. So the chances of being fired is very high.

• 29:32Adrienne Cheatham?

  Wow.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  But I thought I had a golden card because I feared my mom more than I feared Chef. So after they told us this, I always walked up to Chef and like, you know, you can fire me because my mom's going to be really upset. He's like, what's wrong? I don't care about your mom. Like, but I was like, you cannot fire me. He's like, I fire you whenever I want. You just wait. You know what I mean? So that was like the delusion of me, right? So it's New Year's Eve. I worked like eight, nine months and not being fired. I'm there like da, da, da, da. And we are doing asparagus terrine.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  It's going to be caviar on top, a little bit of crispy potato on top, in the garmo station. I'm like, I got this. Fish, making the mousse, got my blanche asparagus. I'm done. I got it. And it's like three under covers. I don't, I don't remember where how many covers. But the gelatin sheets are out and now I gotta work with gelatin powder. And in the translation of the recipe in German to French, I didn't understand the ground structure. And I think the terrine is ready by, should be ready by two. We come back at 3:30, start slicing for the evening. At three, so I don't leave because I'm like, okay, I just work through this. It's

• 30:49Speaker 01

  easy. I can fry my chips. I can, I have a ton of stuff to do, right? 3:15, this is not set. I'm like, I got it. I'm going to put this terrine in the freezer. And then my sous chef comes in. Okay. All right. Where's your terrine? I was like, no problem. We can start carving. And I'm like, I'm, I'm slicing. So I'm slicing the end pieces. And when you get to the middle, it's just

• 31:16Speaker 01

  and I was like, I was like, on one hand, I see my mom. On the other hand, I'm like, it's just better that I'm going to walk out. It's like, if I just walk, well, what's the best choices here, right? So

• 31:29Joe Flamm?

  Just walk back to Sweden.

• 31:31Speaker 01

  So we walked back to Sweden. Exactly. So we have service and it's a mess. In the end, we're like, knelling out this mousse, putting a lot of caviar on top, more crispy potatoes on top. It's New Year's Eve and I'm like, I'm going to get fired on New Year's Eve. Everybody else goes out. Service is done. I've been screamed in French, German. That's nothing new to me. I deserved it. I made a mistake, right? All my buddies like, you know, when you made a mistake, you're a hot potato. Nobody like, your line cooks are not looking your eye. Like, everybody's like, stay away from this guy. So I'm going home. Like, it's New Year's Eve. Everyone's like, sure you don't want to go out? I'm like, not want to go, go no out. So we also have the morning, so

• 32:11Speaker 01

  the next day, early morning, we do the breakfast, right? And I'm like, really that night? It's probably better. I'm not, I'm just going to go and get my knives and I'm done. No one has to say I'm fired. Let's just own it. You're just gonna go. But I'm the luckiest kid in the world, right? Two of these roommates I have, the Irish, and a couple of other guys are Brits, like they're like, you know. So I see them, they're not home. I'm like, well, I'm going to go to work. And one by one, the line cooks are not showing up because they're hungover. So it's just me and Chef. And then eventually sous chef drops in. And the only reason why I did not get fired was thanks to my

• 32:54Speaker 01

  Irish and British young cooks that showed up late. And that's the only reason why I stayed two years in Switzerland. So sometimes just show up is the way to go.

• 33:05Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:07Joe Flamm?

  It's like they say, the best ability is the availability, you know? It's just like

• 33:11Speaker 01

  He would still like make sure though, we're not cool. What you did after was horrible. And you're equally horrible today. But I don't have a choice. All in French and German at the same time. I'm like, we chef, yes chef. You have all, all of it.

• 33:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  If I could fire you, I would. But there's nobody else here to work at any station.

• 33:31Joe Flamm?

  It's also you by yourself, just getting shit on one on one with the chef too. It's just, you're like, there's nowhere to run. There's nowhere for me to go. There's no one else for him to talk to. There's

• 33:42Speaker 01

  Two, three hour, I'm just, you're in it. Like just in it. Yeah. Anyway.

• 33:47Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, that is primo walk in confession, Chef.

• 33:50Joe Flamm?

  I can feel that one to my core, man. Just

• 33:53Speaker 01

  But I earned it. Like, he wasn't wrong. You know, that's the thing. I would gotta go back. They were fair, those Swiss bastards. They were fair, you know?

• 34:00Joe Flamm?

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just like

• 34:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  You can be tough, but you gotta be fair. That's

• 34:04Joe Flamm?

  Yeah. Feeling of those terrines coming out, not set. Just like

• 34:09Adrienne Cheatham?

  Chef, thank you so, so much for hanging out with us today and taking the time.

• 34:13Joe Flamm?

  This was incredible. This was incredible. You're the best.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  I see you guys. Love you, Adrian. I see you guys. And thank you and congratulations to the show. The show has added so much value to our industry and the way you guys do this with young ones. Guys, from my gen coming through, I just showed so much about your intentionality of creating really this family style that we are in the industry and it really shows. Congrats, guys.

• 34:43Adrienne Cheatham?

  All right, guys. That is it for this episode of The Chef's Cut. Be sure to subscribe on YouTube and follow us on IG. And don't forget to leave us a review wherever you get your pods because it really does help. For Joe Flamm, I'm Adrian Cheatham, and this has been The Chef's Cut. Life beyond the past.