13 Jesse & Luke | When police realised they were looking for one of their own

The day police discovered items belonging to Jesse and Luke in a bin, they started trying to contact the man who would go on to be accused of their murder: Beau Lamarre-Condon. In this episode, Jamie McKinnell explains what happened when police called the accused and the evidence of a telecommunications expert about where his phone pinged. If you have questions you'd like Jamie and Stocky to answer in future episodes, please email [email protected]. Family and domestic violence support: If you need help, contact 1800 Respect national helpline on 1800 737 732. The Case Of is the follow-up to the hit podcast Mushroom Case Daily, and all episodes of that show will remain available in the back catalogue of The Case Of.

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• 0:46Stephen Stockwell?

  Within hours of finding Jessie and Luke's bloodied possessions in Skipbin, police were trying to track down Beau Lamar Condon. And in this episode, we find out what happened when his boss got him on the phone. I'm Stephen Stockwell, this is episode 13 of the case of Jessie and Luke.

• 1:05Speaker 05

  He's accused of shooting Jessie Baird and Luke Davies with his service firearm. Police now allege Constable Beau Lamar Condon murdered the couple at a home in Paddington.

• 1:15Speaker 06

  This is just a terrible incident that's occurred here. The loss of these two young men. Now this is Mardi Gras time and yet it's a community in mourning. The pain is ongoing.

• 1:27Stephen Stockwell?

  We don't have a lot of answers that we would love to have just to help bring closure, to bring peace.

• 1:34Stephen Stockwell?

  When police started looking for Beau Lamar Condon, whose phone was where? And what the accused's interest in surfing was? These are just some of the questions we've had answered in the last couple of days as the prosecution has dived into the detail. There, as the Crown has been crossing their Ts and dotting their Is in court, has been the ABC's Legal Affairs reporter, Jamie McKinnell. Welcome, Jamie.

• 1:57Speaker 05

  Hello, Stocky.

• 1:58Stephen Stockwell?

  It's been a bit of a change from our episodes last week. We focused on two key witnesses for both of our last two episodes. Now we have loads of statements and witnesses, but lots of really interesting detail.

• 2:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, so the Crown has really been wrapping up its case, I guess. We've had multiple witness statements, a bunch of different statements that have just been read out to the court with some detail in them. And a few more Crown witnesses have been called, but it is getting to the very end stage of the Crown case at the moment.

• 2:26Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, it's a crucial time of this trial. Very glad that we've got you with us to take us through it all. Can you wrap up the last couple of days for us?

• 2:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, sure. So we've heard from some of the final witnesses in the Crown's case in this trial, and they've included a colleague of the accused who spoke to him twice during the week of these alleged murders before he handed himself in. The jurors have also seen a bundle of mobile phone data records for Jessie Baird, for Luke Davies and for the accused, for each of those people's mobile phones. And they've heard from an expert about what the data can tell us in terms of when those phones were on or off and what cell tower they were connecting to. We've heard that the accused called Bondi Police Station the day before handing himself in and told someone on the front desk that he wanted detectives to know

• 3:17Speaker 05

  that he wasn't avoiding them and he was going to come in soon. And these have been some of the last pieces of evidence to be placed before the jury in the Crown's case, which is expected to close imminently. And then the trial will move to a different phase.

• 3:36Stephen Stockwell?

  Thank you, Jamie. Plenty to unpack in these kind of final details of the Crown case. We're not quite there yet. I'm sure we'll talk more about how that wraps up in our episode on Thursday. But I really want to talk about the evidence from Beau Lamar Condon's boss. This is a woman that speaks to him two days after the deaths of Jessie and Luke. It's on the Wednesday and it's when he calls in sick to work. I mean, probably rather actually texts in sick to work. What did these two talk about?

• 4:04Speaker 05

  Well, this was Senior Constable Deborah Wilson. So she was based out of the Miranda Hub of the PCYC at Miranda Police Station. And she was there from around September 2023. They kind of became friends, this Senior Constable and the accused. She said that he would often talk about Jessie and he would often show her different social media posts or videos. He also told her about the end of that relationship around November 2023. But in terms of the week of the alleged murders, she told the court that on February 21, she was advised that Mr Lamar Condon had told his work that he was going to be sick, but he had texted rather than called. She heard that he was going to have a day procedure,

• 4:49Speaker 05

  but that he hadn't made a phone call to tell them he was going to be sick. She spoke to him that day in relation to the procedure and he told her that it's very private and I don't want to talk about it. Regarding people from his work, his bosses trying to get in touch with him at that point, the Senior Constable Wilson told the court that she remembers him getting frustrated and saying, I'm sick, why are they bothering me? She also got a call from an inspector later that day who said they were trying to get in touch with Mr Lamar Condon. And she told this senior colleague that she'd actually spoken to him and he was upset about people trying to call him.

• 5:31Speaker 05

  On Thursday evening that week, there was another call from the inspector to Senior Constable Wilson and she was told they still hadn't heard from him or got in touch with him. She was asked basically to try and reach out to him again because her senior colleagues knew that these two were close. And so they spoke again on the phone and she said that she told him, give the bosses a call, they're worried that you've just texted in sick. At that point, she says that Beau Lamar Condon says, that's not why they're calling me, they're calling me about the missing persons. It's about my ex and his boyfriend. She also remembers Beau Lamar Condon expressing that at first he thought this might have been about another internal inquiry and he was wondering what he might have done wrong this time.

• 6:15Speaker 05

  But in that conversation, she also remembers him saying, Deb, you have a good heart, that's not why they're calling me, as in the sickness issue. And he also said, according to this evidence, it's complicated, I'll tell you later. So on Friday of that week is when Senior Constable Wilson sees news coverage that also mentions Mr Lamar Condon's name. And she told the court that's the point where she seemed to get more worried about this situation.

• 6:42Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, okay. We heard from this witness as well that they were aware of another witness that we've heard from in this trial. This is the friend that Beau Lamar Condon met, had lunch with at the sushi train following the deaths of Jessie Baird and Luke Davies and also went to a sports shop and bought a surfboard bag with, prior to the deaths of Jessie Baird and Luke Davies. And it sounded as though this witness had kind of some reservations about the relationship between Beau Lamar Condon and this man that was developing.

• 7:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, so she was familiar with this younger man who was becoming friends with Mr Lamar Condon. She knew that this person wanted to be a police officer. And she told the court that she had concerns about how quickly that friendship had intensified. And she said that was because she perceived him as being quite vulnerable and she became worried about this growing friendship and the intensification of that friendship. She told the court that this friendship grew to the point where those two went to Bali together. And we've heard previously, Stocky, about that holiday that they took together. She remembers the defendant sending her the photo of him tattooing his initials on this younger friend. And during the week of the alleged murders, around the 23rd of February,

• 7:55Speaker 05

  she remembers that this friend was hysterical and sobbing when she spoke to him. She said that he told her that Beau Lamar Condon was still alive, but he's going to kill himself. And she said this younger friend was really jumping back and forth with different information. In her statement, she says that the surfboard shop friend said something to the effect of, Beau has just killed two people. And then regarding the night of the 24th, later in that week, she says that she spoke to this friend again and he seemed calmer by that point. He indicated that he'd been up all night and he told her one thing that she remembers, and that was that Beau Lamar Condon had told the friend

• 8:39Speaker 05

  that he'd taken training rounds from the last time he did a police shoot.

• 8:44Stephen Stockwell?

  Okay. And Jamie, just to kind of clarify that timeline there, Beau Lamar Condon is arrested on Friday, the 23rd of November. So that conversation on the 24th that this witness is having with the other witness that we've heard from, the young man who was in the surfboard shop with Beau Lamar Condon, or the sports shop buying the surfboard bag. So that'd be the day after Beau Lamar Condon is arrested, that conversation is happening. We also heard from a few other witnesses who were around this young man around that time as well. What did they tell the court?

• 9:17Speaker 05

  One of these people was a manager at the place that this younger friend worked at the time and this manager told the court that he thought that it was around the 21st or the 20th of February that he remembers having a conversation with this younger friend who was concerned about Mr. Lamar Condon asking him to leave work and this friend was uncertain why, but the manager said the friend, while he was relaying this information, was clearly distressed and scattered and in tears at one point. He seemed confused and as the manager remembers it, he was confused because of a combination of factors, including the fact that the defendant had called him on a different number. He also mentioned

• 10:01Speaker 05

  to this manager that Mr. Lamar Condon doesn't surf, but he's bought surfboard bags. This manager also told the court that later in the week, possibly Thursday or Friday, the younger friend started sharing more information about the situation with him and after this disappearance started breaking in the news, this manager was concerned about the friend and wanted to make sure he had support and also that he had a lawyer. But this witness, the manager, was having a lot of difficulty, Stocky, remembering the dates and the actual content of these conversations. He was saying, I don't, I don't remember, I don't recall to a lot of different questions from the Crown. And it got to the point where the prosecutor put to him that you're not doing your best to remember what you were told by the friend

• 10:46Speaker 05

  in the first conversation and other conversations. And this manager denied that he wasn't trying his best to remember. The Crown also suggested to him that you're not doing your best to remember because you didn't want to know or didn't want to get involved. And he denied that again and said, no, I'm trying my best. He was also challenged by the defence team in cross-examination. It was put to him again that you're, you, you have not been doing your best to tell the truth and remember things. And he again insisted, no, I have been trying as hard as I can.

• 11:20Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, okay. Interesting you mentioned the conversations that, you know, these guys had had about surfboard bags or surfing, whether or not Bo Lamar Condon had ever shown any interest in surfing, because we did hear from a witness last week, it sort of happened kind of quickly. There was all of a sudden a witness who I couldn't really place in the timeline of all of this. And they were being asked questions about surfing. What, what was this?

• 11:44Speaker 05

  So this was a witness by the name of Rod Silver. He's a sergeant in the New South Wales Police Force. And when he was in the witness box, we saw an email from September 2023 where he was CC'd in on plans by Mr. Lamar Condon to hold a surfing programme for young people. And it was really just nutting out the logistics, basically, of how that might work. He'd put together this proposal for a surfing programme. And this sergeant confirmed that it was basically just about logistics. And it was put to him that there's nothing in this email to suggest that the defendant was going to be the instructor during that surfing programme. And he agreed not that he can see. And he was also asked,

• 12:27Speaker 05

  there's nothing in there as well to indicate that he had a surfboard. And again, he said, no, not that I can see from that email.

• 12:33Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah. And was this one witness's evidence kind of just based around that, that single email?

• 12:37Speaker 05

  It seemed to be a very narrow issue that they were asking him questions about and purely the focus, a lot of it was, was just on that email and what he remembers of the proposal and hearing about it.

• 12:48Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah. And we didn't hear anything about whether, whether or not that, that actually went ahead or anything like that?

• 12:52Speaker 05

  No, it was more just, it sounded like it was in the early stages of, of the planning and he just remembers being CC'd in on that email, which was going further up the chain of command to potentially get this programme approved.

• 13:05Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah. Thank you, Jamie. Appreciate the, the detail and nutting out a moment that I missed in court. Jamie, one moment last week that kind of shocked me, actually, more than anything, was some evidence that someone who was living near Brown Street, so this is, you know, kind of in the area where Jessie Baird was living at this time, found a knife in their yard not long after the deaths of Jessie Baird and Luke Davies. They picked up this knife and then they used this knife in their home. Have I got that right?

• 13:37Speaker 05

  Yeah. And this happened in April. So a couple of months after the alleged murders, police received information from somebody who remembered finding a knife sort of in the area. They lived in a street that was quite close to Brown Street. And so there was a witness statement from a police officer read out in court. And this was an officer who went to follow up that information. They said that they went to this Paddington home, kind of near Brown Street, and this other person who lived in the area remembered finding a knife in that vicinity on the 20th of February, so very soon after the alleged murders. But in this statement, the officer said that that person told police they had washed

• 14:18Speaker 05

  it and used it. So we heard that that knife was seized and it was described in court as a 25 centimetre knife with a silver blade.

• 14:26Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah. Thank you, Jamie. I mean, we've been talking about a shooting that occurred at 60 Brown Street. What, if anything, have we heard about a knife being involved?

• 14:35Speaker 05

  Well, there was mention in the defence opening, going way back to the first week of this trial, the Defence Counsel, John Stratton, S E, did mention when he was describing his client's alternative version of what happened in the Brown Street terrace. John Stratton did mention that there was a knife allegedly involved in the two struggles that Bo Lamar Condon says happened and resulted in these two tragic deaths. So that is, from my memory, the only mention of a knife, that it was somehow involved with the two struggles in, in the case of Jessie Baird or Luke Davies.

• 15:10Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah. Thank you, Jamie. We also had a phone expert called in the last couple of days. This was someone who was giving their evidence on Friday in the King Street Court in New South Wales, the New South Wales Supreme Court. What did we hear from them?

• 15:23Speaker 05

  Well, this is a, an expert witness. He works for New South Wales Police, Jonas O'Brien. And he has more than 20 years' experience as a telecommunications engineer. And so what was tendered through his evidence was this big bundle of phone records, basically, that go through the activity of a phone, the cell tower that it's connecting to at a different time. And so we had information from the phones of Jessie Baird, Luke Davies and Mr. Lamar Condon, as well as what the Crown has described as the accused's burner phone. Now, reminder here, Stocky, that the, the Crown is alleging that the accused was using Mr. Baird's phone after his alleged murder to give the impression that he was

• 16:06Speaker 05

  still alive. And so when we were going through the records of Mr. Baird's phone activity in relation to the 19th of February, the day of the alleged murder, the phone records suggest that that phone may have been switched off around 10.50 that morning. We know that the alleged murders took place around 9.50. And so there were multiple data records in the phone of Jessie Baird indicating that there were messages not being delivered to that phone. And this expert said that's most likely because the phone is off. We heard the records suggest that later that afternoon, around quarter to five, that the records indicate the phone was switched back on briefly. And then around six o'clock that evening,

• 16:50Speaker 05

  it goes back to message, delivery failure type messages. So that again suggests it might have been switched off. The afternoon of the 20th, the following day, the phone is back on, according to the call logs and the, the data records. And then it's turned off again. So it's basically giving the impression that Jessie Baird's phone was coming back on at different points after his alleged murder. In relation to Luke Davies' phone, those phone records confirm that that is the handset that made a triple zero call around 9.50 on the day of the alleged murders. And then the records indicate that that phone

• 17:30Speaker 05

  was likely turned off after that point. The accused's phone records suggest that his phone was turned off very early in the morning on the day of the alleged murders, around 5.07 AM. It stops having sort of data activity and doing things in the background. The records indicate it was likely off for about five hours. And then the records go on to indicate when it comes back on or is turned off at different points in, in the subsequent days. And the last records we saw were the, what the Crown is alleging was a burner phone used by the accused. And we saw records that suggest that that phone was used to make

• 18:10Speaker 05

  a phone call to the sushi friend around 11.06 AM on the day of the alleged murders. And then there were a couple of phone calls back and forth and, and things like that.

• 18:20Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah. Okay. Appreciate the, the wrap up of the, the various phones. I know we've heard a lot about kind of movements around these times, watch a lot of CCTV, but having that phone data is kind of helpful to unpack as well. So thank you for taking us through all that. Jamie, I want to spend a bit of time on some questions that were being sent in to [email protected]. Really do appreciate all the questions that you are sending in. There are plenty there. I'm getting through all of them still, don't worry. And don't worry about, you know, apologising for adding to the email inbox when you do email. It is a pleasure to make our way through them. I want to start with one here from Kai. Jamie, Kai is an Australian student who is studying in Hangzhou in China at the moment. And

• 19:01Stephen Stockwell?

  they picked up on the fact that you mentioned that Bo Lamar Condon said, just so you don't worry, my name is Bo Lamar Condon, or just so you're not shocked, my name is Bo Lamar Condon, when he was talking to the police helpline operator. And Kai's wondering, you know, does the accused say anything more about why he's going to see detectives in that call?

• 19:19Speaker 05

  We do have evidence that we've heard previously that Mr. Lamar Condon was aware that police wanted to speak to him by that point. And we also know that there were some news articles naming him and mentioning a police officer being a suspect. Last week, we actually heard evidence from a police witness who was on the counter at Bondi Police Station. And they remember that the night before Bo Lamar Condon handed himself in, he called the front desk and said, I want a message passed on to a detective. Can you tell them that I'm not avoiding them and I'm going to come in and see them tomorrow? So there's certainly been evidence that he had an understanding that they wanted to speak to him by this point.

• 19:59Stephen Stockwell?

  Yep. Okay. Thank you, Jamie. And thank you, Kai, for your email as well. Really appreciate the enthusiasm and interest it has sparked in the Australian legal system. So thank you for getting in touch. Another one here, Jamie, from Kelly. She's wondering if the friends that we've heard from so far, these are friends of Bo Lamar Condon who given evidence throughout this trial, whether or not they went to police themselves or if police sought them out?

• 20:26Speaker 05

  From what they've said, it sounds like they've contacted police. For example, Elizabeth Kennedy contacted police and she went in with a lawyer to see them. Um. The other friend, the younger friend that we've been talking about from the surfboard shop. Um. He's another example of somebody who went in to see police and contacted them and also had a lawyer organised by that point as well.

• 20:47Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, okay. Thank you, Jamie. Uh. Thank you, Kelly, for your email that you've sent through as well. Appreciate that one. Uh. One here, Jamie, from Damian. Damian's wondering why it took police so long to find the bodies of Jessie and Luke following um Bola Marconden's arrest. Bola Marconden arrested on the Friday. Uh. Jessie and Luke's body is not discovered until the Tuesday. Has that delay been discussed yet?

• 21:10Speaker 05

  Well, it hasn't really been addressed in a sort of direct sense, but there is evidence that uh sort of explains what was happening in those days before the discovery was made. So we know that Elizabeth Kennedy um went to police and she was with police as they were driving around Bungonia. They were looking for the farm that she could only remember sort of vague details about because she thought everything looked the same down there. Um. It was described by one of the detectives as as like looking for a needle in a haystack at that point. And then we know as well that even when they identified what they thought was the farm, they spent some time searching it and getting police divers in and looking through the dam. Uh. And then there is evidence that at some point their attention and their focus switches to the second scene, which is the scene near

• 21:54Speaker 05

  the Bungonia monastery, which is about fifteen minutes' drive away. Uh. There hasn't been a sort of direct explanation of what caused that shift in focus, but it is clear that the focus did shift from the farm to the monastery area.

• 22:09Stephen Stockwell?

  Okay, great. Thank you, Jamie. Appreciate clarification there. Damian, thank you for writing into the case of at abc.net.au. Um. One thing I do want to finish with and a question I like to finish with on today's episode is one from Nick. Uh. Nick's wondering about the jury. Uh. So the jury has been sitting on this trial now for, you know, over six weeks. We're entering the seventh week at the moment. He's wondering whether they get to go home at the end of each day or do they have to stay in a hotel nearby and not talk to anyone between their time at court?

• 22:35Speaker 05

  They get to go home each day. Um. They are given frequent reminders from the judge to not discuss the evidence with anyone and not actively seek out media coverage about the case. Um. But Justice Natalie Adams did actually tell them on day one, when she was sort of giving them uh an introduction to the way court works, she mentioned this and she said, if your deliberations, when we get to that point, if they go for more than one day, we don't sequester juries anymore. That's the process of um putting them in a hotel and and keeping them more isolated. Um. But she said, you might have seen that on American television shows, which I think is where some people's understanding of that process might be coming from. Um. We generally don't do that anymore.

• 23:16Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, okay. Thank you, Jamie. Uh. And thank you, Nick, for that question as well. Glad that you're uh you're thinking of the jury throughout all of this, the uh the people that will be making the decision at the end of this trial and uh there's a lot they've got to go through and it's a a huge amount of work. And so I appreciate that you're thinking of them uh at this time. Uh. If you've got a question for us as well, please get in touch. The case of at abc.net.au is where you can reach us. Uh. Do really uh enjoy getting all of your notes and feedback and all those things. So reach out if there's something that's burning a hole in your mind. Uh. Jamie, do you know where we're going next?

• 23:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, we've still got the very um what sounds it sounds like the end part of that uh phone expert's witness to go. So he's not quite finished. Uh. And then the other thing that the jury's been told is that on the current expectations, the Crown case will close um within days and the defence case is expected to start on Thursday. Uh. So we are certainly, as we've been saying, stocky at the very end of the Crown case and then we will shift into a different phase of the trial very soon.

• 24:16Stephen Stockwell?

  Thank you. Um. Look, there's uh plenty to get into in our episode on Thursday if the Crown case wraps up. Um. Before then, and we do have an email, Jamie, uh from Damian, a different Damian to the one who we've uh answered the question of in uh in this episode. Uh. Asking if we could do an entire Q and A episode, but uh if we have uh, you know, a short day with the Crown wrapping their case, uh Damian, you can eat your wish for Thursday. So if there's things you're wondering about, get in touch now. We might have a bit of room for a few more questions in our Thursday episode. So you can reach out at the the case of at abc.net.au. Jamie, thank you so much for taking us through this episode.

• 24:50Speaker 05

  No worries.

• 24:51Stephen Stockwell?

  We'll be back in your feed on Thursday this week. The best place to listen to the case of is on ABC Listen. Uh. Sharon actually emailed there, wondering how she can rate the podcast on ABC Listen. And in fact, you can't rate us on ABC Listen. That's the only place you can't rate us. They already know uh how wonderful uh we are, though. Uh. It's the other podcast apps that you can leave us a rating and a review in. So if you're using something other than ABC Listen, jump in there, give us a rating and a review because it makes it much easier for other people to find us.

• 25:24Stephen Stockwell?

  The case of Jessie and Luke is produced by ABC Audio Studios and ABC News. This episode was reported by Jamie McKinnell and presented by me, Stephen Stockwell. Our supervising producer is Greg Muller and our executive producer is Claire Rollinson. This episode was produced on the land of the Gadigal and we're injury people.