07 The Two Intruders | Testing the alibi

Joseph Vekony insists he had never been to Canberra — where Irma was murdered in 1999 — and has presented a three-pronged alibi which has been tested in court. In this episode, Elizabeth Byrne and James Vyver explain who Joseph Vekony is; his life in Hungary and Melbourne and the surprising depth of his friendship with his co-accused, Steve Fabriczy. If you have any questions you'd like Liz and Stocky to answer in future episodes, please email [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. The Case Of is the follow-up to the hit podcast Mushroom Case Daily, and all episodes of that show will remain available in the back catalogue of The Case Of.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Yumi Steins here. On Ladies We Need to Talk, I speak to women about the big things that are going on in their lives, from overcoming health challenges... She said to me, "Have you ever heard of the word endometriosis?" And I remember saying, "No, I don't think I have." To navigating relationships... I just said to him, "I need a break from you." Search Ladies We Need to Talk on the Listen app or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:29Speaker 01

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• 0:46Speaker 02

  In a police station after his arrest, accused murderer Joseph Accony seems very happy to talk about his life, what socket he played for, how much he could bench press, just not about if he's ever been to Canberra. I'm Stephen Stockwell. Welcome to episode seven of The Case of the Two Intruders.

• 1:03Speaker 03

  Irma Pelazik's brutal murder rocked her family and has haunted them for 24 long years.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  This wasn't the average robbery.

• 1:10Speaker 03

  The brutality of the attack shocked the community. They were virtually tortured that night.

• 1:16Speaker 04

  Violently assaulted before the two men ransacked the premises and stole cash and jewellery. My grandparents were beaten and my grandmother was left to die on the lounge room floor.

• 1:30Speaker 02

  There are two men accused of murdering Irma in 1999. Last week, we heard a lot about Steve Fabrizi, how undercover police got him talking. And now we have learnt about Joseph Accony. We are very lucky to have Canberra Court reporter Elizabeth Byrne with us again to help us learn what has unfolded in the Canberra Supreme Court. Welcome, Liz.

• 1:48Speaker 03

  Hi, Stocky.

• 1:50Speaker 02

  And we're also joined by Canberra investigative reporter James Vyver. James, welcome to the pod. Hello. Liz, before we get too deep into this episode, can you give us an idea of where we're going in 60 seconds or so?

• 2:03Speaker 03

  Well, this week, Joseph Fakoni finally took centre stage. But this time, there were no undercover operations and no admissions. Joseph Fakoni is sticking to his story that he had never been to Canberra and had nothing to do with the violent home invasion in which Irma was killed. When police suggested they had linked him to the murder scene through DNA, he denied it all and offered to take a lie detector test. And we got to meet Joseph Fakoni's daughter and got an insight into hairdressing in the 1990s from one of Melbourne's top operators.

• 2:46Speaker 02

  Thank you, Liz. I didn't expect that we would be going to hairdressing in the 90s during a murder trial, but it's been interesting nonetheless, and the insights that offers into this investigation were pretty surprising, actually. Before we talk about that, though, I really want to talk about Joseph Fakoni's police interview. This is where he sits down with the lead investigator on this case, Detective Craig Marriott, and he's asked about his life and his involvement in Irma's murder. What did he have to say?

• 3:15Speaker 03

  Well, there was no involvement on his account. He says he wasn't there at all. He's never been to Canberra until, of course, now when he's sitting in the court. He said he did know Steve Fabrizi, and they knew each other well enough, but there seems to be a disjoint because there seemed to be a bit of contact between the two. They knew each other in Europe before either of them came to Australia. Steve Fabrizi seemed not to know Joseph Fakoni very well at all, other than to agree to come to Canberra for the alleged...

• 3:55Speaker 03

  Home invasion.

• 3:56Speaker 02

  Um.

• 3:57Speaker 03

  And he it seemed to barely remember even his name. He's told police it was Joe Vicon or something like that. He didn't even give his proper name.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, I'm really interested in kind of unpacking this relationship because it's, you know, two different people with two very different apparent memories of each other, really. Yeah, in the uh, in the other undercover police recording of Steve Fabrizi, as you say, Liz, saying, oh, Joe, someone, you know, had this deal to to go to Canberra, had this idea of robbing this house. And then, yeah, on the other side, in in Joseph Vekony's police interview, it's like, yeah, Steve, know the guy, been all over the place with him. James, the other day when we were talking about Steve Fabrizi's police interview, you talked about how quiet he was following his arrest. What was Joseph Vekony like in in his police interview?

• 4:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, so you you're quite right, Stocky. Just to very quickly recap by way of comparison, Steve Fabrizi seemed to be in a state of shock. He couldn't quite form a thought. He he really struggled to find his words when he was speaking to Craig Marriott in his police interview. Very different presentation in the police interview from Joseph Vekony. We didn't see on the big screen played out, sort of on the larger stage in court, the visual recording. We heard the audio of it, although you could catch glimpses of it on the screens on on the bar table.

• 5:18Speaker 02

  Um.

• 5:18Speaker 05

  Joseph Vekony was very open, at least in the beginning. We learnt a lot about him. We learnt a lot about his background, his, almost his whole life story, you know, if he if it was a website, it would be the bio section. Um, we learnt about his early years coming from Europe and and and all of these sort of fine-grained details that he hadn't really been asked. Craig Marriott, quite the opposite in the other interview, for a long period, didn't really have to ask him anything. Joseph Vekony told him everything that he needed to know had asked and quite a lot more that he hadn't.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  Um.

• 5:53Speaker 05

  A- and again, like when we heard from Fabrizi, this is the first time the court had heard Vercony's voice at any length, other than when he entered his place. We heard, you know, quite a deep voice with a very thick Hungarian accent. Um, he asked for an interpreter quite early in in the process. Craig Marriott said, well, listen, you've been in Australia for forty three years. I think we'll give it a crack and see where how we get on. And and so they continued. And as you say, he had a very, certainly, I would say, for the first. For the lion's share of it, he had a very different energy to Steve Fabriczy.

• 6:28Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 6:29Speaker 05

  And, yeah, it, this was all free flowing, as you mentioned in your introduction. Until we got to the nitty gritty, then, then things changed a little bit.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, the, the style of those conversations, James, is, is really interesting to unpack. And as you say, yeah, surely something the jury has, has been keeping an eye on here. I, I do want to get to know Joseph Verconi a little bit, though. We've now learnt so much about him, notably how we got to know Steve Fabriczy. And Liz, as you say, there is, there is a fair bit of history between these two, from the sounds of it.

• 6:59Speaker 03

  Yes, there was, and it makes you wonder how Steve Fabriczy didn't know what his name was. They actually met in Austria in nineteen seventy eight. Steve Fabriczy seems to have moved around a bit and it told the police that he'd spent a bit of time in Italy. But these two actually met in Austria, nineteen seventy eight. They travelled to Sweden together, where Steve Fabriczy's brother had been. And they did some sort of training and stuff there and some language training as well. And then eventually, one thing led to another and Mr. Verconi came back to Hungary.

• 7:40Speaker 03

  And eventually he started to work in a UN programme. We, he was looking for somewhere to migrate to and decided on Australia. He got some training, he said something about training to drive big trucks. In the end, we know that he was a boilermaker, which the court has already heard. But eventually he gets on a plane, he flies to Melbourne. It's sort of the middle of June and it's five degrees when he gets off the plane. And he's told police that he, I want to go back to Hungary, it's too cold. Uh, but he got used to it because he had to stay for at least two years or pay back the money.

• 8:22Speaker 03

  For for coming to Australia. So so he stayed and of course stayed for forty three years, probably a bit longer now. So yeah, that's that's kind of the history of they did know each other overseas and then they reconnected in Melbourne a little while after Mr. Verconi had arrived.

• 8:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, we heard quite a lot about Joseph Verconi's life, right? You know, kind of this full biography really and talking about his the forty three years that he'd spent living in Australia, you know, two marriages, two daughters, how he'd travelled back to Hungary on a couple of occasions, how he'd played as the goalkeeper for the Hungarian club's soccer teams, and also how he'd used his welding skills to build his own gym at his house and that he could bench press a hundred and fifty kilos. So yeah, kind of incredible insight into him as a person. What do we know about how he ended up hooking back up and reconnecting with Steve Fabrizi? I mean, this is a guy he's he's met while travelling in Europe, they've both ended up in the same country together. When do they end up linking up again?

• 9:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, you sort of got the sense it was a bit like it felt it probably wasn't, but it felt a bit like they're on a gap year. You know, they met in a youth hostel in Austria, then off they went to Scandinavia to meet up with Fabrizi's brother George, and then, you know, they're here, they went here, there and everywhere. And yes, as you say, they did connect back. The way Joseph Verconi described it was that they came across one another again and reconnected again. The details weren't exactly clear. Not long after they fell out over something, again, those details weren't given to the court, but interesting language when you've been arrested for murder that Verconi just chose to use when they in communicating to Steve Fabrizi that if he saw him again, then he'd be in trouble.

• 10:07Speaker 05

  He said, I threatened to break his neck. So whether that was just the phrase he chose in that particular moment in the police interview or what he said at the time, unsure. But given what he'd been arrested for, that really did stand out. They then. Fell out of step with one another and you kind of get the sense that their relationship was pretty off again, on again in terms of a friendship. It kind of was quite staccato in terms of the timeline of this. They didn't see one another for about 10 years and then they seemed to fall back into lockstep mostly around their two sets of skills. Fabrizi was driving trucks, he needed someone to weld up some stuff. We then got to a really interesting point in the whole timeline of this. And this was about a disagreement

• 10:52Speaker 05

  that they had in 1997. And that goes to the timeline about some evidence, which we'll talk about in a minute as well. The whole balaclava thing and the DNA, which as we know, for people following along at home, is absolutely crucial. We also heard about this acquaintance, this shared acquaintance, this guy called Les. And Vicconi told Craig Marriott that Les had said that Steve Fabrizi didn't like him. Vicconi didn't really give a lot of details about a lot of the things, as you can probably tell. The lines of it are quite blurred in terms of what he could remember.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, and sort of happy to kind of give these really broad brush strokes of his life. But yeah, not necessarily diving into the detail with Craig Marriott, the police officer, leading this investigation, sitting in the room with him, having that conversation. I mean, Liz, is there anyone else who spoke to the relationship between these two guys? Or are we just listening to what we're hearing from Joseph Vicconi here?

• 11:48Speaker 03

  Well, one of the more interesting witnesses we've seen is Steve Fabrizi's former girlfriend, who lived with him for a number of years, but also knew Joseph Vicconi and his second wife. One of the things they had in common was that Joseph Vicconi and his second wife, and Steve Fabrizi's girlfriend, probably not in the same years, because I don't, there's no evidence they knew each other at the time, but they'd all been to the same high school in Hungary. That's what she told the court. And she also was able to confirm the sort of contact between the two men. Over those years and fill in a few more details about what they were like and when

• 12:33Speaker 03

  she would see them. And she she talked a bit about the gym.

• 12:36Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 12:36Speaker 03

  And said that Steve Fabrizi had sometimes gone around there to use that gym at least once or twice. I thought her observation about Joseph Fakoni was interesting. She said he was very tall, ha- very muscly, uh, and fit and had a moustache. And she said he had a very dry sense of humour.

• 12:58Speaker 02

  Interesting insight into, um, yeah, Joseph Fakoni that we're that we're getting here. And I mean, yeah, these two sort of sides are right. You get this, you know, police interview side and then the description of Steve Fabrizi's ex-girlfriend of what Joseph Fakoni is like as well. So thank you for taking us there, Liz. I mean, the real crux of this is what or how or if Joseph Fakoni is involved in the home invasion at Irma Plazik's home in nineteen ninety nine. How far did Joseph Fakoni go with his denials that that he was involved or even there?

• 13:28Speaker 03

  Well, the at the outset of his police interview, they put to Joseph Fakoni that not only had they allegedly linked his DNA to the nineteen ninety nine crime scene where Irma was killed, but they had also linked his DNA to a balaclava found after a robbery in nineteen ninety eight at the Plazik's former house. Now, Joseph Fakoni, of course, still denies he ever came to Canberra. And he offered an explanation about the DNA on the balaclava. He said Steve Fabrizi could have stolen it when he was doing welding

• 14:09Speaker 03

  at his house, and that that might be how a balaclava with his DNA on it might have been at that scene. He said he used to ride a motorbike and wear a balaclava for that. So that's why he would have had one. But he was quite insistent that he wasn't lying to the police, that he said, why would I lie to you? And the police said, well, because you're on a murder charge. But he said at one point, look, I'll even take a lie detector test. So he was quite adamant he had nothing to do with the crime.

• 14:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, and it was at this point during the police interview where the tone definitely changed. It was about three quarters of the way through, they took a break. The two officers, Craig Marriott and his colleague, went out of the room and presumably conferred or had had some kind of discussion. The video or the recording played in court pretty much just goes, you know, there's a few seconds in between those two moments. And then you got the sense that Craig Marriott changed gears slightly. And this is when Joseph Akoni really did, his tone changed and talked about, you know, take my DNA again, you know, the lie detector test and all those things. A really interesting point, which I mentioned just before, was Craig Marriott put the timeline to him. He said, okay, let's accept that you

• 15:21Speaker 05

  fell out in 1997. Let's accept that you, that Steve Fabrizi had taken your balaclava, that he had done, as you're suggesting, this robbery or attempted robbery in 1998, and that he was there in 1999. That still doesn't explain how your DNA was at the 1999 incident. And at that point, that was the sort of real turning point for when Joseph Akoni's voice changed. It went a lot higher. He got a bit more agitated. He absolutely, as Liz said, that's when he started to throw things back at Craig Marriott and say, you know, why would I offer to take a lie detector test if I wasn't innocent? You know, if I

• 16:06Speaker 05

  was guilty, I wouldn't offer that. And so that was a really interesting turning point. And not long after that, he shut up shop and the whole thing ended.

• 16:14Speaker 02

  Yep. In the police interview, it sounds like Joseph Akoni already knows that Steve Fabrizi has been arrested in relation to this burglary and murder. Is that the case?

• 16:28Speaker 05

  So our friend Les, or rather their friend Les pops up again with this one. Steve Fabriczy, as we heard last time about the undercover operation that was in the September of 2023, and a couple of weeks after that undercover operation with UCO, Danny is when Steve Fabriczy was arrested and interviewed, like we talked about last time. It's then the December of 23 when Joseph Ficcone is arrested. And in that intervening time, this fellow Les had actually informed Joseph Ficcone of what had happened by sending him a video of Steve Fabriczy, the police vision that the ABC had been given and subsequently published, no doubt by Elizabeth Byrne of our esteemed parish. That's how Joseph Ficcone, you know, that he was sent a video on the ABC.

• 17:12Speaker 05

  He said that in court.

• 17:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you, James. Thank you, Liz, not just for your work on this podcast, but for your ongoing coverage of this case that is finding its way into places we had never expected. Now, Joseph Ficcone was very strong on having never been to Canberra during this police interview. And he has, in fact, submitted an alibi for the reason he couldn't have been involved in this burglary and murder. And something that I've realised as we've been going through this is that an alibi isn't something that gets presented at this point when he's being questioned about it. It's presented well before, during the investigation, so the police have time to look into it. Is that right, Liz?

• 17:50Speaker 03

  Yes, it is. In fact, when you're formally committed for trial in the Supreme Court, usually from the magistrate's court, one of the many pieces of paper given to you and your lawyers is the alibi notice. And of course, this is what happened in this case. Now, that alibi notice, when it came back to police, and in fact, you don't often see them, but in this case we did. But the one from Joseph Ficcone had sort of three prongs to it. One was that it was the day Australia voted in the referendum on a republic, and he said he'd voted. Another one was that he said he'd worked that day.

• 18:33Speaker 03

  So he couldn't have been in Canberra. And there was, and the third one was that he said he'd picked his daughter up from her hairdressing job. And so that also meant it would have been very difficult for him to have made it all the way to Canberra that day. So the police went off and tested all of those theories.

• 18:53Speaker 05

  It's basically like a timeline of that fateful day in November nineteen ninety nine. They billed it and then the prosecution tested. That's the sense that I got and that the jury was given. The, the pace of the evidence from witnesses sped up a bit. They were much shorter and much more frequent.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  Hmm. Yeah, I mean, I feel like we can probably run through it reasonably quickly as well. I mean, to start with, voting in the referendum, I feel like, you know, even in nineteen ninety nine, we must have pretty good records for this. How did the court go about confirming that?

• 19:24Speaker 03

  Well, we had an AEC officer come and give evidence. He was quizzed about how they go about things. And he was able to confirm that both Mr. Vacconi and Mr. Fabrizi voted on that day. The one thing he couldn't tell us, though, is what time they voted on the day. So the polls opened at something like eight o'clock in the morning. So they could have voted quite early in the day and still had time to drive to Canberra. So that part of the alibi couldn't confirm that he couldn't possibly have gotten to Canberra, but at least that was substantiated.

• 20:02Speaker 02

  Hmm. Yeah, got it. The other part, Liz, that I found fascinating is the, the evidence that Joseph Vacconi was picking up his daughter from her hairdressing job on that day. We've now not only been introduced to Joseph Vacconi through his evidence, we've also been introduced to his family through their evidence as well. What did his daughter have to say?

• 20:20Speaker 03

  Well, Carolina Vacconi was seventeen in nineteen ninety nine. She, the records show, and this was shown to the jury, that she was just sort of wrapping up her school years. She says she would have been at that time, as, as school was coming to an end. She didn't want to go to university and she was sending out lots of resumes because she really wanted to be a hairdresser. And she was asked a lot of details about where she'd applied and what she'd done. And

• 20:51Speaker 03

  She really couldn't remember, she couldn't remember that day and she couldn't remember much about that period because she said in those days, hair was everything to her. She was all about the hair and not thinking about what her parents were doing. So she wasn't really able to furnish an exact alibi, but she, she also didn't refute the alibi.

• 21:14Speaker 02

  Right, okay, so no specific memory of being picked up by Joseph Vacconi on that day, but couldn't say it was another day or another point because, am I right in thinking that Joseph Vacconi and her mother are separated at this point as well?

• 21:26Speaker 03

  Yes, they had. In fact, one of the things she said was that it was very rare for either of them to pick her up because they were both always working and that a friend of her mother's used to often pick her up. She sort of fleshed out the, the situation a bit, but still it really led nowhere in confirming the alibi, although it didn't refute it.

• 21:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, she's 17 years old, so, I mean, I definitely could not tell you if my parents picked me up from, from my job when I was that age. So that's a reasonably fair assessment, I feel. Did we hear from anyone who worked for, you know, this kind of Joe Bailey franchise at all, Liz?

• 22:05Speaker 03

  Well, we did. We heard from the manager. So Carolina Vacconi claims she worked for them for three or four months, sort of around that time. The irony is, of course, that Joseph Vacconi says he picked her up from another salon, where she, where she did work, but not until in the year 2000. But the Joe Bailey manager was completely unable to confirm that Carolina Vacconi worked there ever. He had no memory of her. He thought none of the other staff who were there at the time have a memory of her. But, you know, there are a lot of people through that salon because it was a very popular place.

• 22:47Speaker 03

  In fact, he is the only person who actually remembers something about that day, said it was, it was race day, so they would have been very, very busy and they often didn't have casuals in. That day. And I was quite interested in his recruitment processes, which he talked to the court about, where he said sometimes when people would come in looking for an apprenticeship, they had to explain to them that hairdressing wasn't a matter of sitting around having your hair done all day, that in fact you had to work very, very hard.

• 23:20Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah, I can, I can imagine. I mean, if it was a matter of sitting around getting your hair done every day, I'd probably look at exploring another career. But here I am doing this instead. I mean, Joseph Akoni, he has been in custody for a few years at this point, arrested at the end of 2023. I'm not sure what, you know, kind of contact he has with his family, but he has his daughter, you know, in the, in the witness stand, giving evidence at this point. How was he during that?

• 23:47Speaker 03

  Well, I was watching him and he was looking down for most of it. The translator beside him was translating what she was saying. Eventually he did look up. I wondered how he would feel about seeing his own daughter up there on the screen, talking to the court. But he, he didn't seem to be very responsive. He, and as I said, just looked down for most of the time.

• 24:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I mean, we've got the three planks of Joseph Akoni's alibi. There is the voting in the referendum, which has been ticked off. There is picking up his daughter, which is inconclusive because no one can remember what was happening on that day in 1999. And then we also have the, the alibi, the suggestion that he was working that day as well from Joseph Akoni. We've had a couple of people who used to, it looks like, run or manage the, the places he was, he was a boilermaker and where he was doing some welding. Were they able to vouch for him at all?

• 24:42Speaker 03

  Not really. They didn't remember his name, either of them. One of them said when they, he'd seen a picture of him once the trial had started and he thought he looked vaguely familiar. But everything was on paper in those days and they had no records themselves of any, of anything to do with Joseph Akoni, no pay slips or anything. But the liquidators apparently had all the records. So that really wasn't much of a help in supporting his alibi, but it also didn't refuse it.

• 25:14Speaker 02

  And as with the AEC evidence, we heard from these two bosses of this metal fabrication place in Melbourne where Joseph Akoni is supposed to have.

• 25:23Speaker 05

  Worked at the time, we heard questions around shift times, again, building that timeline and testing that timeline, that theory that I mentioned before. We heard that were there shifts on Saturdays, what times those shifts might have started and finished, how often you did that kind of overtime, how busy you were at the time. And so again, as I say, going back to that timeline theory.

• 25:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, really interesting to hear kind of how well that fits together, the work that's being done by the prosecution to kind of like spell this out and check off and, you know, and kind of give this information to the jury so they can make a decision based on what they've heard from these witnesses. I will say, something that gives me, you know, kind of almost a cold sweat is a liquidator somewhere rifling through paper records from 1999, trying to find a payslip of a guy called Joseph Akoni to see if he worked at this factory was just, that gives me chills having it for that poor person somewhere. So hopefully whoever that is is doing okay if that evidence is coming towards the court. I mean, there's something that I found kind of, you know, specific actually in the wording around the way that this evidence was presented to the judge was that while Joseph Akoni

• 26:26Speaker 02

  talks a lot about Steve Fabrizi in parts of this, the jury isn't allowed to use any of that when assessing Steve Fabrizi's guilt. Is that right?

• 26:35Speaker 03

  Yes, it is. This whole section of the trial is all about Joseph Akoni and what he says about Steve Fabrizi isn't necessarily evidence, then the jury has to weigh up what is the evidence. And so they've been presented with that by other people, but Steve Fabrizi is out of the mix for the moment in terms of the allegations in this case.

• 27:02Speaker 05

  And vice versa for large sections of the evidence that we heard on Steve Fabrizi. And Justice Mossup made that clear in both instances to the jury that you should only, you have to sort of toggle off. One defendant here and again vice versa when when the other sets of evidence are heard.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We're getting a heap of questions sent through to [email protected]. People very curious about specifically the the undercover operation that was done around Steve Fabrizi and that's something we're going to be getting to in our post-trial coverage. So I appreciate you sending all those emails, but we're not something we can dive into yet, but I do wanted to note that we are getting a lot of them and so we'll have some episodes planned around some of that. But it is on I want to get to here from Phil. Phil is asking whether or not it's been revealed what brought Steve Fabrizi to the attention of police in the first place.

• 27:55Speaker 03

  Well, that's not a question that I can answer at this stage. We don't know whether something like that will come up later in the trial, but certainly at this juncture, we can't tell you.

• 28:07Speaker 02

  Thank you, Liz. Thank you, Phil, for the question. And Liz, I appreciate the forward point to our post-trial coverage again, seamless. So, yeah, make sure you grab yourself the ABC Listen app to keep up with all of the latest happenings with not just the case of the two intruders, but also the case of the Wheelerbein murder, which we're following at the moment. If you jump on that, you're first in the queue for new episodes when they drop and any updates that are coming out. So grab yourself ABC Listen, give us a follow, ABC Listen on the various socials. And also, if you're using a separate podcast platform, we'd really appreciate it if you could give us a rating or a review. So jump on that. Makes it easy for other people to find us. Liz, we're back with another episode on Thursday. What's coming out? Where are we going?

• 28:51Speaker 03

  Well, I think we're going to hear a bit more of the police investigation evidence because on Friday, we seem to not have gotten through all of Craig Marriott's evidence. He's been in the court talking to us. So I think that will be next. Who knows? This trial's jumped around a bit. There's also some cross-examination. There's people who've come and given their evidence and their cross-examination's been put off. So we might see a bit more cross-examination, a bit more evidence from people that we've already met, but they might have a bit more to say.

• 29:31Speaker 02

  Thank you, Liz. Yeah, with the lead investigator giving evidence means we're getting towards the pointy end of this trial. So grab yourself ABC Listen, follow The Case Of, and we'll be back in your feed on Thursday.

• 29:48Speaker 02

  The Case of the Two Intruders is produced by ABC Audio Studios and ABC News. It's reported by Elizabeth Byrne and James Vyver and is presented by me, Stephen Stockwell. Our supervising producer is Greg Muller and our executive producer is Claire Rollinson. This episode was produced on the land of the Nunawal, Nanbri and Wurundjeri people.