The #1 Way to Scale Your Brand and Business in the Age of AI

Want to build an audience that AI can’t replace? Natalie Ellis and Lori Harder reveal the personal branding strategy behind real business growth. In this episode, Lori and Natalie discuss how entrepreneurship can create more freedom when it’s built around focus, systems, and community. They break down personal branding, business growth, social media marketing, how to build an audience you actually own, and why that audience can become a powerful advantage in the age of AI. Natalie shares her one-product, one-client, one-funnel, one-platform approach to growth, while Lori explains how podcasting and strategic guest appearances can expand your reach, relationships, and revenue. In this episode, Natalie and Lori will discuss: (03:47) How Entrepreneurship Creates Freedom (07:27) Path to Growth: Hustle Culture or Soft-Life CEO? (10:41) Abandoning People’s Expectations of You (16:50) How Trauma Can Create Freedom (18:01) Future-Proofing Your Business in the Age of AI (21:27) Want to Build a Loyal Audience? Do THIS (25:47) The Ugly Truth About Launching New Ventures (29:39) Podcasting as a Vehicle for Building Online Communities (33:49) Replacing Jealousy With Collaboration (37:33) The Podcast Industry’s Most Gatekept Rules Lori Harder is a serial entrepreneur, author, and founder of beauty and wellness brand Glōci. She has built and scaled multiple million-dollar businesses and hosts the Earn Your Happy podcast, which has surpassed 65 million downloads. Lori also invests in more than 10 companies and helps entrepreneurs grow their brands, businesses, and networks. Resources Mentioned: Natalie’s Book, The Freedom-Based Business Method Mel Robbins’s Podcast, The Mel Robbins Podcast Connect with Lori: Lori’s Podcast, Earn Your Happy YouTube Instagram LinkedIn Website Lori’s Book, A Tribe Called Bliss Connect with Natalie: Instagram LinkedIn Website YouTube Natalie’s Book, The Freedom-Based Business Method Entrepreneurship, personal branding, business growth, social media marketing, how to build an audience, AI for business, Natalie Ellis, Lori Harder, bossbabe, build a personal brand, audience growth, grow on social media, online business, business systems, business strategy, content marketing, community building, podcast marketing, podcast guesting, entrepreneur mindset, brand building, grow your business, social media growth, AI marketing, freedom based business

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Okay, before we start, I want to shout out a few brands I genuinely love that make this podcast possible. If business finances aren't your first language, Freshbooks is 90% off right now, under $3 a month for four months at freshbooks.com/ bossbabe. If you run a shop, FAIRE is how you stock unique, high-quality products. Get 50% off your first wholesale order, up to $100, at F-A-I-R-E.com/ bossbabe. Hosting at AI will build your website in less than a day. No coding, designer, or developer needed. Go to hostingat.com/ bossbabe and use code BOSSBABE for 10% off now. AG1 is a daily

• 0:40Speaker 00

  supplement I won't skip. Save 20% on your first subscription order at drinkag1.com/ bossbabe. Quince makes everyday essentials in premium materials. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to quince.com. Let's get into it. Welcome back to the Boss Babe Podcast. So this episode wasn't recorded in a studio. It was actually recorded on a stage in a room full of women during the week that my book came out. So Lori Harder invited me to co-host a live event with her, and it was really exciting because we've been friends for many, many years. She is the host of a podcast called Earn Your Happy, which just crossed a decade and 1,600 episodes. She, off the back of

• 1:24Speaker 00

  it, has built three seven-figure businesses. She's also my co-founder at Glossy, and she's the person I call when I need someone to deep dive into business with me. So we did the thing that we both really love doing in front of a few hundred people. She interviewed me for the first half, I interviewed her for the second. None of this was scripted, and the theme of the day was that freedom is built, not found. And we really go into detail on what that means and how we've both built the freedom that we have. So there's a few specific moments that I want you to listen for that I really think are powerful, that really changed things for me. The first is the boundaries answer. So I say out loud

• 2:05Speaker 00

  what setting boundaries actually cost me, because I don't think it's helpful to pretend that you just set a boundary and it's easy. I personally did lose relationships, and I would do it again. The second is a sheep story in New Zealand. Now, if you've read the book, you know exactly what I mean. It's a really clear picture of what happens when you build a life outside of what people expect you to build, and actually what feels really good for you. And then the third is one that I just keep thinking about. So Lori sees more podcast pictures than anyone I know. I mean, and she'll be honest, because I see a lot too, and she's like, 99% of these are terrible. And then there's one specific

• 2:46Speaker 00

  sentence that is like the worst sentence you can say to a podcast host. And if you want to actually get on podcasts, you need to know what this sentence is. So I really want you to listen to that piece, because it's going to shift your mindset a lot. We also get into what I think is a real opportunity in the age of AI, why your audience and your distribution are probably the only moat left, and then what it looks like to start growing on Instagram now, because I promise you, it's really easy. So I hope you enjoy this live conversation. It's a slightly different kind of podcast, and I've got a couple more of these coming from the book launch, because you know what? Let's get that content out there. So with that, I hope you enjoy the episode.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  So this is literally our favorite thing to do. We were just saying that in the back, and I'm like, um, we get to do this. Like, how many of you would love to just, well, we're doing it today, sit and chat with your girlfriend about like all of the things that are going on in life, the good, the bad, the ugly, and have people to really talk through it. And I think that's why you and I have like loved podcasting so much, is because it's oh-so selfish. We get so much out of it, which is so incredible. But I really, really just want to say how grateful we are for all of you guys coming out, and especially, we're especially excited today for Natalie's book as well, because she just launched this week, so give it up for her.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  She's been on like a whirlwind tour, you guys. Like, we've been voice noting briefly back and forth, because she's like, okay, so here's what I think, and this is how it should look, and this is what we should do. And we're just going back and forth, planning this. She's like, I'm going into my event, goodbye. I'm like, okay, you get up on stage and go. And that's literally what it's been like. You're like, now I'm feeding the baby, now I'm going to bed, now I'm going on a stage, now I'm going. Okay, here we are. And this is, so here she is, and she's taking time for all of us right now, which is so exciting.

• 4:34Speaker 00

  She made it.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  She made it. And I also want to say today, because I'm gonna, anybody love to brag on their friends, or like really help their friends out. We're gonna do it. Okay, so who's, who else has like written a book or done something big in here? Who understands that you need all of the help in the world when that happens? Okay, so her New York Times bestselling possibility is, ends tonight. And so if you have friends that you want to buy this book for, if you want to buy two, if you want to buy five, there is a push that if we want to do it, we can help her and go online and do that and buy it for a friend. So if we want, that feels real, real nice. If not, you can take your book home, and you can realize just how good it is, and you're gonna buy it for a friend

• 5:17Speaker 01

  anyway. So, yes, I'm so excited. So we're gonna get into it, because today we are celebrating two friends with two huge milestones. And when her and I were talking about this, because she was like, you know, I'm gonna launch my book, and I think I'm gonna do some things for it. I'm like, because I've launched a book. I was like, if you don't do something huge for this, like, I literally will come find you. So I said-

• 5:39Speaker 00

  She did.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  I was like, I'm already doing this event. I don't really want to do it alone. Do you want to do it with me? So here we are, and I can't wait to chat with you about all things, your book as well. So, you know, one of the first things I want to kick off, because we're really gonna go, you know, talk deep on your book, and just some of the, the topics that are arising for you right now, is we haven't really talked publicly about how we both together, how we both grew up in really small towns. Like, we come from a lot of the same background, where we didn't necessarily see a lot of entrepreneurs out there. We didn't see a lot of women doing what we want to do. How many of you did not see what you want to do now, growing up? Oh my God, look around. Is that every hand?

• 6:22Speaker 01

  That's pretty crazy. So that's why we're all here together. But the question for you is, you didn't really see that? Tell me a little bit about that story of, you know, when you knew and when you first became an entrepreneur.

• 6:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, I remember the exact moment. It was a careers day at school, and I was having a really hard time behind the scenes. I'd just moved to my fourth school in one school year, and I was having a really tough time. I wasn't applying myself in school. I just had this story that I wasn't smart, I wouldn't amount to anything, I just want to get through this. And we were at a careers day, and there were so many people coming in and out and teaching us about what they do. And I just couldn't see myself in any of these people. And the final person presenting that day, she came in, she had beautiful heels on, and she put a bag down on the counter. It was a mulberry beige, water brown, stunning. I was like, okay, I'm listening. What is this? And she went on to tell a story about how

• 7:16Speaker 00

  she was in a really challenging marriage, and she was able to create financial security for herself through entrepreneurship. And it was the first time I'd ever heard the word entrepreneurship. But what I was really hearing is that she was able to get out of a really hard situation at home. And I had grown up seeing my mom in very hard situations. And the story I told myself is, she's not leaving, and she's putting us through this because she can't afford to leave. And so immediately, I equated entrepreneurship to financial freedom and choice. And so I was 13, and I decided then and there I was going to be an entrepreneur. I had no idea what I was gonna do, but I really set my heart on it. And I, and I didn't know at the time, but it was just freedom. The through line for me was freedom. And that drove me to really figure it out.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  That's amazing. Okay, so we just talked about your book is out now. What drove you to write this particular book? So Freedom-Based Business Method, like, I know that you have been so in the trenches with your business, truly growing a massive business. What has been the like catalyst for now I need a book? And now that you've been in all of these rooms, what are some of the themes that are coming out from it?

• 8:28Speaker 00

  Ultimately, becoming a mom changed absolutely everything for me. You know, before that, I was running this business from a place of burnout consistently. I would burn out, have a good night's sleep, and get back on it. And it just felt like, if I wasn't putting my foot on the gas, this business was not growing. I felt like I could not take a breather, or the business would crumble. It didn't exist without me showing up. And that was fine until it wasn't. And I actually walked away from the entire business when I had my first daughter. And when I ended up coming back, which the whole story is in the book, but when I ended up coming back and deciding I was gonna buy out my co-founder, I was gonna run this business on my own, I remember saying to my husband, I want to do this, because I really believe there's a, there's a better way, there's a different way. I, you know, I haven't been doing it that way, but I believe in myself to figure

• 9:13Speaker 00

  it out. And on the back of that, what I figured out, and the systems that I put in place, and the way in which I approached it was so fundamentally different, I wanted to write this book, because I didn't want other women to have to go through the absolute- Identity crisis and burnout that I went through to know that there's a better way. And it's not a book about work-life balance. It's not a book about doing this on easy mode. I do not think this exists. I think what I've built, I've built because I've put a lot of hard work into it. And I think that's incredibly important. And I think there's a way to do it where every time you level your business up, you put a system in place that means it is secure and it can continue to compound and you're not the missing part in every single link. And so a lot of this is very tactical.

• 9:58Speaker 00

  It's very system-based. It's very much, let me show you the playbook. It doesn't mean it's always going to be easy, but hopefully hustle comes in seasons. Hopefully hustle isn't your full-time job. It comes in seasons. You can push and then you can step back. You can push, you can step back. And I think that's the way as entrepreneurs and especially as women, that we work best when we really follow the creative energy and we go all in. And then we step back to systemize and to stabilize. And then we put our creative energy back in. I think both of those things are incredibly important. And I wasn't really seeing it talked about. I was seeing two sides of the coin. The hustle, like hustle your ass off, work 24/7, no days off. Or the soft-life CEO. I think both of them lies personally, right? The hustle your ass off, great.

• 10:43Speaker 00

  If you want to have any life outside of work, at some point that will stop working. And the soft-life CEO, that's not going to work 24/7. That's not a way to build a business that actually really works and builds freedom of choice in your life. And I think we need to figure out aligned ambition, the thing that sits in between those two things.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  I've always been really drawn to you because I'm more of a visionary. I'm a creative. Where are those people in the room for me? Okay. So sometimes we can either, we can get really overwhelmed when we hear it, but it also is like, I'm eating out of her hand because all I want to do is feel structure in my business. Who gets that feeling? So at least she sent me the book and you know, sometimes friends send books and they're like, don't even know if you're going to read it. I'm like, no, I'm, I'm reading it. I'm almost done with it. Like literally, I need it. And it's written so good because you do, you do share the world of both. And a lot of people have, you know, a little bit of both in your brain. But I think that one of the things that you have taught me, watching you throughout the years is freedom comes from discipline. Freedom comes from structure. Freedom comes from that frame.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  And if you're a visionary man, you can resist it with all that you have. It can actually feel pretty awful, but it's like taking that time. And that's really, really where the freedom comes. So when you have friends like this and when you have this book, I'm telling you it's, it's super valuable because we always want to be that like airy, here's my next idea. But if you don't have the frame, it just feels like it's lost and jumbled. And you actually feel frustrated, right? Like very deeply frustrated. So thanks for solving that problem.

• 12:15Speaker 00

  Yeah. One thing I always say, if you want a freedom-based business, you need freedom-giving systems. And it's really, really important because if all you do is follow shiny object syndrome, you will make a lot of progress in so many different directions. You're actually not giving yourself the chance to compound everything because everything is new, everything is exciting. Yet the entrepreneurs that actually build freedom into their life through their business, because I truly believe your business can be the biggest freedom-giving vehicle if you let it. The people that are doing that are going in one direction and building momentum in one direction and figuring out how to bring both the visionary and the integrator. I think it's very easy as creative visionary entrepreneurs to look for the integrator in somebody else.

• 13:01Speaker 00

  We think that's not our skillset, so let me find somebody else. Who has tried to find that person and felt like they can never do it? Right? It's very, very challenging. Whereas when you figure out how to bring your own visionary and your own integrator, you start building a business that just really works. And I think that's a really cool thing to do.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  You talk a lot about letting go of the shoulds. So tell me what that all means to you.

• 13:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, it started when I, I saw this analogy, I heard this story and it was about this sheep in New Zealand. And bear with me here.

• 13:35Speaker 00

  And there was this story of a sheep that, you know, sheep need to be sheared very regularly for their own health. And it had been part of its tribe and wandered off by itself for a long, long time and just kept growing layer upon layer upon layer, to the point that it actually fell over. It could not get itself up. It was really not in a good place. And the farmer actually found it and they managed to nurture it back to health. And when I heard that story, I immediately felt like I have seen that so many times in my own life, these layers of shoulds that I have put upon myself that have gotten me to a point where I felt like there's no way out. And what I mean by that is I think from a very, very young age, especially women, we

• 14:18Speaker 00

  hear of all the things we should do, the ways in which we should behave, the way in which we should be in relationship, the way in which we should hold ourselves, the things we should want for our lives. We are very used to hearing should and our internal dialogue becomes should. And if you end up building a life out of shoulds, you end up like that sheep. You're like, oh, what have I built? None of this belongs to me. I do not feel like myself, yet I am so stuck and lost beneath all of these layers. I don't even know what is me anymore. I don't know what I value. I don't know what I want. I don't know what my direction is. I don't know what clarity looks like for me. I'm so far away from clarity because I have these layers of should on me.

• 15:02Speaker 00

  And I remember when I had my second daughter, my first daughter, I went through a really traumatic birth experience and I was so rocked to my core that I was in, I feel like I was stuck in fight or flight for an extended period of time. And when you are stuck in that kind of nervous system place, you do not have time nor space to play the should game anymore. You do not have the ability to put a smile on your face and show up the way you should show up. And it was in that place that I was able to take a look at the relationships in my life that weren't working, the dynamics I created, the places I was continuously saying yes, where I might no, the places where I was, was, you know, playing small to make other people happy because I was so scared of disappointing anyone.

• 15:47Speaker 00

  And I was able to just start looking at those layers. And for the first time in my life, coming out of that season, actually asked myself, what do I want? If I wasn't caring about impressing anybody else, what would I actually want? And it was very insightful how hard that question was to answer because of the shoulds. Who else has felt like that? Our newest products have gone from idea to sales page in under a week. That speed has completely changed how we launch. We don't bet everything on one big release anymore. We test more ideas, more pages, more designs, and our audience tells us which ones to keep. When I started, I couldn't work that way.

• 16:29Speaker 00

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• 17:13Speaker 00

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• 17:58Speaker 00

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• 18:41Speaker 00

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• 19:27Speaker 00

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• 19:50Speaker 01

  What were you most afraid of around that? Because sometimes when I hear that, it's almost like, oh my God, I'm almost scared to ask it because it's going to rock the boat. Who gets what I'm talking about? So what, how do you deal with that? By the way, Natalie for me is one of the people that when I need like to build up my backbone or I need a boundary or I need someone to kick me back in the game, like she will kick me faster back in the game around like, here's why you're going to do it. And here's the cost of that. And here's exactly why you're going to say, or here's the boundary. So can you infuse us with a little bit of, I don't know, can you kick our butts for a moment?

• 20:26Speaker 00

  Yes. So the thing that I was most afraid of when I really went to the root of the fear was probably the people in my life I would lose because I was speaking my truth. And I would love to sit here and say it didn't happen. It did happen and it was very, very hard. I went through heartbreak in friendships, relationships. I was really afraid that I had built so many friendships because of my business and my online presence, which it sounds crazy to say, that was the reality, right? And I was so afraid of not being good enough just as me. If I was really speaking my own truth, if I was saying no, if I was doing what I wanted, I was so afraid of what that would look like.

• 21:11Speaker 00

  I was so afraid of just ending up alone. Can anyone relate to that or is that just me? And so what I had to do was go to the root of that fear and become okay with it. Am I okay with it if I lose relationships in my life that really matter to me? If I'm trusting myself, if I'm being authentic to myself? And it's very easy to pep talk yourself and say, well, if they don't love you for you, it's, you know, they're not the right person for you. That's one of those things that's very easy to say in here. It's not easy to actually exercise. And so I had to get really okay with that. And I had to feel it all to then be willing to lead that way.

• 21:51Speaker 00

  And I can say on the other side of it, truly, if your relationships are only your relationships because of how you perform in them, they are not relationships worth having. If the people that are upset about you having boundaries are the people that really benefit from you having none, those are not the people that you want to have in your life. And I really, really want you all to hear that because on the other side of it, the relationships you will have are so deeply fulfilling. And it's amazing to be in relationships where you just know you get each other, where you know you can have a really hard day. You know, tonight I canceled a dinner with women that I really love and care about. And I didn't feel nervous at all to just say, I think I might cancel because I'm really

• 22:36Speaker 00

  tired and to just know that that would be okay because they're not expecting me to perform in any way. And that's real friendship. And I think every single one of us as women deserves that.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh, who feels a little more free from that? And who, who actually knows in their soul that on the other side of it, it will be good? It's just that initial tidal wave, you know? And all of us were chatting in the back because we're kind of just talking about the, the theme of freedom and what that actually means, like when you actually dig into the word. And freedom often is on the other side of our absolute worst fear. Can be anything from losing a family member, losing a business, losing a spouse, losing a partner. And what happens in life is a lot of, we're, we're not protected from a lot of those things, right? They happen. How many of you in here have had one of those things happen?

• 23:29Speaker 01

  And on the other side of it, something happens when you have community, when you have friends, when those people show up, when you decide not to quit is all of a sudden, when you face your absolute worst fear, you're free from that thing. Right? That is actually where freedom comes from is, is discipline, is facing fears, is actions, is moving through these really challenging times in your life. So, you know, when we, when we think of freedom, we're like, oh, I want to feel better. I want to feel more free. It's like, well, let's start by facing those really challenging things. And you know, your, your book is so good for that because it's like, all right, if we want freedom in our businesses, where are the places that you've really been resisting and avoiding?

• 24:10Speaker 01

  And for a lot of us, it's systems, it's structure, it's doing the things that aren't fun and aren't sexy. And it's just such a through line of life. So why do you think your book right now is even more important with everything going on with the world of AI?

• 24:25Speaker 00

  Oh, I could talk AI for a long time. I think in this age of AI, your audience, you know, distribution is your moat. I think it's incredibly important that you double down on building an audience, an audience that you own, a distribution that you own. I think with AI, we are seeing the rise of people being able to do everything and everything, anything and everything. And so they are doing that. And so we are seeing so much slop. We are seeing so much be put out there that if you are able to really have discipline in what you do and what your focus is, and you can use AI to support you in doing that. One, that's a superpower to even have that discernment.

• 25:07Speaker 00

  But two, if you can have your content and your community stand out from the noise and the slop, you are really well positioning yourself. I think we're in an arbitrage opportunity right now where it's actually, I would say just as easy to grow on social now as it was way back when Instagram started, which is actually really cool because we haven't seen that in a long time. And actually, one of our speakers today, Jen Gottlieb, she is crushing it, doing exactly that. She has figured that out. Right now is the most amazing time to grow. And if you can do that, when AI really, because we have no idea what it's going to look like five years from now, if you have a community that you own and distribution that you own, you are positioning yourself so far ahead. I really see it as a moat.

• 25:52Speaker 00

  And so inside the book, we go into the tactical ways of doing that. I think it's a huge opportunity, but I think all of us should be focused on that, especially as personal brands, especially where we have community around our businesses. We want to be owning that. You know, there are brands putting up thousands of ads per day because it's never been easier to create ads. And so the paid landscape is changing. The paid landscape is just becoming even more crowded. Again, if you own your distribution and you own that moat, that is a really powerful position to be in.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  I think it's so powerful to hear positive conversations around it because I'm sure a lot of you have heard conversations that are more like, it's really hard right now. Who's heard that? Whose numbers have actually gone backwards? Right? So things that are being reflected back to us is if you get in the, this is exactly like the algorithm, you guys, we are literally just getting in algorithms in life. And so if you get in a, this is hard right now, algorithm with your friends, with your family, you're going to feed more, you're going to be fed more of it, you're going to see more of it, you're going to hear more of it. So every time something is getting reflected back to you, just remember it is literally just like that. But if you switch, you know, I get to hang out with my amazing friend who you're going to learn from in just a little bit, Jen, and then Natalie as well. And they're doing the opposite. They're growing. I'm hearing positive things.

• 27:06Speaker 01

  No, it's, it's never been a better time if you can just figure this out. So now I'm on team excited rather than team like, oh, I'm so sad. Things aren't going right. We should all just quit, you know? And it's really easy to go there, right? It's really easy. It feels kind of good. You can go get a cocktail and talk about it. It's so fun, but then it just makes you feel bad at the end of the day. So what I want you to leave with and also hearing this is like, no, it is for people who get it, it is wild out there. Like Jen is growing by 30 to 60,000 people a month and it's the happiest she's ever been doing content. So, um, you know, what advice would you give Natalie to a woman right now who's like

• 27:49Speaker 01

  ready to build her dream or go more all in or write a book, whatever that looks like?

• 27:55Speaker 00

  Build an audience, truly build an audience. You know, when I look back, I've been in a very reflective place the last few weeks. I've been doing a lot of podcasts and people have been taking me back all the way to the beginning of Boss Babe and all of the things that we've been able to create as a community. And what I've always come back to is this has only been possible because I have had such an amazing community. Who's been part of the Boss Babe community? This is possible because of all of you and I'm so incredibly grateful. And I want other women who want to build brands to do this. Because when you have a community that have a shared belief, where you know you can positively impact them and you know that that in turn will support your dreams, it is the most fulfilling thing.

• 28:38Speaker 00

  That is how you are going for decades because it is so fulfilling and it's so reciprocal. And doing that really allows you to launch something like a book. You know, you will be told that the publishers will market for you. They will not. It is on you. And if you have that audience, it's so much easier. So for the woman that's ready to go all in, what I really, really challenge you to do is think of one person, think of one person that you know you can impact the most. And maybe it's your favorite client, maybe it's a friend, maybe it's someone you follow online, it's your aspirational person that you'd absolutely love to buy your product. And I want you to start marketing your product, one product directly to that one person. And I want you to make sure they can see themselves in your content.

• 29:22Speaker 00

  I want you to make your content about them and really set that goal, that one product, that one client, that one funnel on that one platform and figure out what that's going to look like to unlock growth, just all of it, the power of ones. I cannot tell you how powerful it is. Because when we are trying to do a million different things, what ends up happening is we're not making progress in any meaningful direction. And we tell ourselves stories like we're not cut out for this, we're not good at this, it's not working, no one's interested, no one wants to be part of my community, fill in the blank. And all that is, is you haven't given yourself the opportunity yet to figure out what resonates because you've been so busy. And busy is the enemy of building the thing you really dream of being.

• 30:05Speaker 00

  And so if you hear anything, it's I want you to figure out what that focus is and I want you to go all in on it and I want you to know it's so incredibly possible. And it will be on the other side of that absolute laser focus. And guess what? You're going to have to have a lot of boundaries to do that because it's so easy. All of us in this room, we do what we do because we love to help people. Every single one of us that have businesses, that's why we do it. And if all you focus on is helping everyone all the time, you won't grow your own thing. And actually you're going to dilute the impact that you know you can have. So I really want you to have those blinders on and have those boundaries because ultimately having them will mean that your impact is so much bigger than you ever thought.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  So good. All right. So what are you most excited about right now?

• 30:48Speaker 00

  Oh, being here.

• 30:53Speaker 00

  I feel like right now I'm just soaking up every single moment of this book launch. You know, I keep getting told there was nothing like your, the launch of your first book. And to get to do this with my family flying around America and just having them woven into everything just feels like the biggest dream. I feel like I'm showing my girls what's possible.

• 31:14Speaker 00

  Chokes me up. It's amazing. And I'm just very present in that. Yeah.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  That's so awesome. Thank you.

• 31:21Speaker 00

  All right. I'm gonna ask you a few questions.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  We're like switching gears.

• 31:25Speaker 00

  Before I start crying.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  We love the tears.

• 31:29Speaker 00

  Ten years of In Your Happy, ten years of podcasting.

• 31:36Speaker 00

  To do the same thing for a decade is no small feat at all. That takes an enormous amount of discipline. And I'm gonna guess there have been more than a few moments where you've wanted to throw in the towel. I'm gonna guess there's been more than a few moments when you've thought, no one's listening to this. I'm not doing it anymore. And you kept doing it. And you've done it to a magnitude that most of us couldn't comprehend. Three to four times a week, you have done this with discipline for a decade. The most consistent person that I know. What within you has kept you going this consistently for this long?

• 32:10Speaker 01

  Oh, you are so right. When you say it has been the most wild journey of, you know, there are so many days that I do not want to do it, especially like the first three years, honestly. And when you hear this, I want you to understand. It wasn't like, oh, it was the first month was hard. It was like, no, the first three, the first four years. And you have days where you're crying all day, or you feel terrible, or you feel like you have nothing good to say. Like literally, you turn the mic on and you're like, oh, god. Ma, mom?

• 32:44Speaker 01

  How do I even start any topic whatsoever? And so, you know, I will say that the consistency came because from the beginning, I decided to adopt an attitude that no matter what happened with this podcast, it was my personal development journey. And I knew that if I could show, like if it taught me to show up two to four times a week, what else could I do in my life? I knew that if I could talk two to four times a week on a podcast, what could I not do in public? And one of the reasons that I wanted to take this challenge on is because I still to this day am challenged by anxiety. Like I feel it's fully in my

• 33:27Speaker 01

  body right now, like, but I'm still up here. So like I get butterflies. Sometimes I'll have moments even while I'm up here where I'm like, okay, just breathe. You were holding your breath. That's why you feel like you're gonna pass out. Okay, just keep breathing. And so this is something that has been my entire life. And when people are like, does it go away? It hasn't. So I wish I could tell you that it has. But do you know what I've done? I have so much self-trust that I'm gonna do it anyway. I have so much self-confidence that I have shown up two to four times a week. I have so much evidence that I'm gonna be okay and I'm gonna figure it out. Because I made that promise to show up on the podcast. And so even though I truly sometimes say to God, I'm like, why did you plague me with

• 34:10Speaker 01

  this? Like, do you know what I'd be doing without it? And then I get this answer back. It's like, no, you could never talk to the women the way you're supposed to if you didn't have it. Like, it would be too easy. I'd be like, yeah, it's so great. Oh, my God. I can't believe that you're nervous about getting up there. I'm like, no, every goddamn time. I'm like, please, I'm like, so nervous. We were just back there. And so I think the thing about being consistent with the podcast is truly, I was like, I'm gonna commit to this. I'm gonna learn from it. I'm gonna see what it teaches me. I want to get to know people. I want to, you know, get into communities that I wouldn't normally have access to. And I just really viewed it as the path and I treated it that way. I was like, okay, I

• 34:52Speaker 01

  have trouble being consistent with a lot of stuff in my life, you guys, which might be shocking after hearing that. But I've pivoted more times than probably most people that you know. But that's the one consistent that I said, this is gonna be the thing that teaches me so many things that I need to know.

• 35:08Speaker 00

  When we planned merch for our boardroom mastermind, I wanted something people would actually wear, not something that ends up in a drawer. So we went with Quince sweatshirts. And the reviews have been phenomenal. How soft they are, how cozy, how thick the material is. We put our name on them, and that's about the strongest endorsement I can give. Quince makes everyday essentials in premium materials, organic cotton, Mongolian cashmere, stretch denim, priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Their 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters start at around $50. And as it gets colder, there are down jackets, cashmere scarves, and gloves to round out the season. Find the full pieces you'll reach for most at

• 35:49Speaker 00

  Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers, or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was the Boss Babe Podcast. It's the best way to support the show. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers, or go to quince.com. The seasons change and my body notices it before I do. The mornings get darker, the calendar gets fuller, and everything feels a bit slower to start. That's when I go back to the basics. And I do love AG1 every morning, first thing. AG1 Next Gen has more than 75 ingredients, vitamins, minerals, pre and probiotics, superfoods,

• 36:33Speaker 00

  and it's backed by four separate clinical trials. Key nutrient levels improved within three months of consistent use. It's also formulated to support immune defense, which is exactly what I need going into this time of year. It's peace of mind that I'm getting comprehensive nutrition while everything else speeds up. This season's gonna change either way. I'd rather be ready for it. Go to drinkag1.com/ bossbabe and for a limited time, get a free immune support bundle, including a bottle of omega-3 fish oil and a bottle of vitamin D3 K2 with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro. That's drinkag1.com/ bossbabe. That's drinkag1.com/ bossbabe. I love this so much. And I feel like one of the themes that's just coming up that

• 37:18Speaker 00

  we're talking about is the power of building and having a community. And as women, that's what we've always done since the beginning of time. Not that I was there, but that's what I hear we've always done. We've always built community. We are so much happier when we are around other women. We are so much happier talking to other women. It's so incredibly important. And building a community, I think, now is one of the best things we can do. Yes, for ourselves, but also to be able to live out our dreams. When we have big dreams, if you have built a community around your mission, it allows you to go and do so many big things. Like you said, you've pivoted in so many ways, but always held really consistent

• 37:58Speaker 00

  with this one thing. And I'm curious, speaking of that, through having a podcast and growing it in the way you have, what has it given you? What are the things it's given you that you could never have predicted when you first started it?

• 38:12Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. And I know you know this, but what has it not given me? And that is the only statement that I can tell you is, it's, it's brought me things that I can't even fathom. Like, I actually want to cry sitting and thinking about the women that I've connected with through here or through the podcast. Like, how many of you have found me through my podcast or knew about it or have been on it? Like, I'm just looking out. And the number of connections that I have gotten to make, the amount of things that I have gotten to learn, I can say probably 70% of my friends have come through podcasting or deepened through podcasting. One of the coolest things that it's done is that when I go out in the world, let's say I was just meeting Natalie for the first time. And I'm

• 38:54Speaker 01

  like, oh, I really like her. Like, what is some value that I could give to her? And how can I also kind of get to know her better, drop into her world? It's the power of having a platform and going, oh, Natalie, like, I loved this conversation with you. I would love to have you on the podcast and push your stuff out to my community. Like, whatever you're selling, I would love to share it, hopefully introduce a new community, community to you. That has been probably my most powerful calling card of anything I've ever experienced, is to be able to have a place for those relationships to go. Do you know what I mean? Where you're like, oh, I really like them. Now what? And so that is a way that I've utilized the podcast. But it has come relationships. It's allowed me to launch or to pivot in many

• 39:37Speaker 01

  different ways. And I love, I mean, I'm a builder. I'll always build, always have something that I want to build, whether it's a online product, a physical product, a, you know, I get all of these different ideas. And the thing that the podcast has allowed is to truly have that audience that it's like, okay, we're gonna test it. We're gonna put it out to this audience and see. We're gonna be sharing this. And the best part is, how many of you know that when you are, you know, when you're about to launch something, the thing that you are always told to do is to start talking about it, right? Start taking people on the journey. And so I'm a little, I can be a little long-winded. You can ask my husband. And so for me, a podcast was a really beautiful place to, even if I had an idea, I wanted to see how something felt in my body, or I wanted to be like, let me

• 40:22Speaker 01

  just start talking about this. Like, it doesn't feel like me yet. It feels like people think I'm a little bit of a fraud, or it's not my identity. You know what I'm talking about when you're pivoting? And you're like, oh, God, this feels like out of left field to go do a totally different social post. The podcast has been like this playground for me of, I'm just gonna put out a podcast about this thing and see how it feels. And sometimes it feels really terrible in my body. And I'm like, never mind, we're not doing that. Or it's like, oh, I really started to riff on it. Like, I really see myself talking about this. I love it. And by the way, I do want to share throughout this, like, you don't have to have a podcast do this. You can go on podcasts and try this. So you don't have to go and think you have to start a podcast. You can absolutely go and do that. But I

• 41:02Speaker 01

  have gotten investors for things. I've literally gotten business partners. I've gotten best friends. I've been able to just experience a different version of myself. So I can almost trace like every big relationship and moment back to a podcast, which I have like 1,600 episodes. So that seems accurate.

• 41:24Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 41:29Speaker 00

  And I want to come back to that guesting on podcasts. That part's really interesting, but I've been blessed to know you for almost 10 years now. And I remember one of our first interactions, we'd been online friends and then I told you I was moving to LA. And your first reaction was, great, does this date work for you? I'm going to bring you a ton of women you should know and introduce me. And you've always been that woman who has been such a great connector. And one thing I really admire about you, which everyone who knows Laurie in this room will know this is true. I have never in the entire time I've known you, heard you speak from a place of scarcity as it pertains to another woman and what she's doing. You truly believe and embody what it looks like to know that there is enough space for all of us, always.

• 42:11Speaker 00

  And I'm really curious, what mindset do you have you have to shift anything? And what mindset do you embody to really live that? Because you live it, it's not just something you say, you live it.

• 42:23Speaker 01

  This is such a good question because you know, it's, it's really easy for me to feel jealous of people. Of, I wish I had what she has, or honestly, I get really jealous of skillsets. Who gets that? I'm like, if I just knew how to do that, I could like integrate this and put this idea out. A true ideator here, I'm like, if I just knew that skillset, I could put this new idea out. Um, so you know, one of the things that has really helped me is to understand that when you get another woman in your life who is amazing, that you absolutely love, you actually get her skillset in your life. So when you can deeply grasp that if you have someone that you, you know, really look up to or who's stunningly beautiful, amazing with fashion, guess what?

• 43:09Speaker 01

  If you weren't, ask her about her necklace, have her dress you, have her help you out. Like having all of these incredible women in your life gives you that you are now surrounded by all the skillsets that you want. And so when I start thinking of, um, you know, not being jealous of women and also having friends, my friend Lindsay Sukornik told me the best story that actually this is where this kind of all pivoted for me years and years ago. And she said, you know, when it comes to friends, because she had like the most eclectic group. I was like, hmm, like, I'm not sure I want to hang out with some of your friends because they're just, they're, I don't know. They, they're different, you know, they don't, I don't feel like we're going to get along. That's all like you go do your thing. And she's like, well, I collect people. And I was like, okay, tell me more, collecting people.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  This is interesting to take me somewhere. And she said, you know, I'm not great with fashion. And she was a yogi, like through and through, and just very like deep wisdom, like a little Buddha. And she said, I'm terrible with fashion and I really want to like, I want to look cute. I want to look great. And there's this woman that I couldn't stand. And she'd show up in the parent like pickup line and it'd be like, you know, 6:30 in the morning and she'd look hot, like head to toe, just everything is perfect and looks great. And she was like, I was hating on her, jealous of her, like who, what are you trying to prove? And then she was like, wait a minute, she could really help me look hot.

• 44:33Speaker 01

  And so she had a moment that not everybody is going to be exactly who you, they're not going to be exactly like you. And so when we start to realize that everybody needs to play a role in your life, then you can start letting people play the role they're meant to play instead of going, hmm, you're not really for me. Like you, you're into yoga, I'm not. Okay. Well, let them play that role, but also figure out like, look for the golden people. Because that's what's changed my life is whenever I meet a woman or whenever I'm jealous or whatever it is, I'm like, she has something to offer me and I have something to offer her. And so it makes me stay in a conversation a little bit longer. Cause normally it's like, what do we do in these rooms? We go to people who look either like us, no joke, right?

• 45:15Speaker 01

  With that look like our twin, or we go to people who look approachable or comfortable. And so if we all did the most crazy experiment today, where you went up to someone that you wouldn't normally go up to, I guarantee you'd get an answer that you've been waiting on for a long time. Because God does this thing where he buries treasure in people who you would never think it's there. And so we walk by it every day. And so when I think of people and women and opportunities, they are everywhere. Like they're, they're at the coffee shop, they're at the cashier, they're at the person sitting at the table next to you. And so, you know, in terms of people in general, I think that's just how I view people.

• 45:54Speaker 00

  I love this so much. And so coming back to podcasting, I'm very curious for anyone in the room who has a podcast, is looking to start one or wants to be on more shows. What have you really learned about being in the game? Cause there's a lot of rules to the game that are kind of gate kept. What have you learned?

• 46:14Speaker 01

  Oh gosh, there's so many gate kept ones especially. Um, I think some of the, some of the things that like, once you get into the industry too, you're like, wow, a lot of the top 25 spots are paid. So even if you were in the top 25, you're probably getting kicked out by the paid spots. Um, there's a lot of eye opening things like that, that you actually can't get caught up on. And you have to just say, no, I'm in it because I love it. I'm in it because it's offering me so much value. And I think that the biggest pieces of podcasting and like, what you have to know is it's got to be good content. It's just literally got to be good content that you're putting out. Meaning if people want to, people aren't going to share content that isn't great.

• 46:56Speaker 01

  And so if we're looking at the algorithm of a podcast, it's really brutal because there really isn't one. Unless you have a great YouTube team putting you on YouTube, unless you have a great social media, unless you have a team that's really focusing on getting your content out. It's kind of like Instagram. If you don't get a focused strategic plan of how you want to get out there, you're probably not going to grow in a really big way. Um, you know, I do think that a big part of podcasting is uh, getting more well-known guests on sometimes, but it doesn't have to be all the time. And I meet a lot of people who chase a lot of shiny guests and that doesn't always work either. And I've met so many people who just have conversations with their friends all day and that works.

• 47:40Speaker 01

  And so I think it's, it's kind of like finding what fits for you and deciding if it's something that you want to go all in on. Because especially at this point in the game, I think that there is a lot of podcasts out there. You have to really be committed to a podcast if that's the way that you want to grow. And nowadays you kind of do have to put a lot of energy and some money behind it to grow. But what I want to really talk about right now is the power of how many people are starting podcasts? And the power of being a professional guest on a podcast. So some of you might be thinking, oh my gosh, Laurie just told me all the reasons I should start a podcast. Like I'm feeling FOMO, I should really have one. Who's feeling that just a little bit?

• 48:22Speaker 01

  Okay. I mean, I feel that whenever people talk about anything. So truly who, who feels that like, oh, maybe I should have a podcast. Okay. So in a world where it is a little bit of an uphill to start a podcast to get out there and you know, then put it on your social media. And if your social media is not growing, let me tell you, podcast reels and clips don't really do that great. So if that's the way that you think you're going to grow, it's going to be an uphill challenge. Now, podcast guesting in a world where everyone is starting a podcast and where everybody is paying to have a podcast, guess how many of them all need guests every single week?

• 49:02Speaker 01

  Would you rather pay for a platform or consistently understand how to borrow a platform over and over again? You guys, it's, it's like if Instagram had to have guests, if she had to have guests every day on Boss Babe. Like, wouldn't you be applying to be a guest all of a time, all of a time, all of the time? If it was like Natalie was like, I need a new guest. Oh my God, this is a hungry baby. I have to do another interview. I have to do two interviews a week. I have to do three a week. And something that I'm really learning about interviewing, and Natalie, I know you know this with the sheer volume of pitches that I see, 99% are terrible, terrible. And then when they come on, nobody knows how to tell a story.

• 49:44Speaker 01

  Nobody knows how to bring me through a beautiful storytelling sales funnel. And nobody knows how to give a call to action that captures my audience into their email. I am like astounded by the amount of people who come on and waste an opportunity in front of hundreds of thousands of hungry people who I've already sold, I've already made millions through. So it's an audience of buyers that come on. And do you know what they say to me? This is, we've decided this is the worst thing you could ever say to a podcast guest. And it's going to be opposite of what you think. I say, okay, so what would you like to talk about? Like how, how can we make sure that we really promote you? And they go, I'm, I'm just here to serve your audience. And I'm like, oh man.

• 50:26Speaker 01

  Because here's why that doesn't serve my audience. If you are profoundly amazing at talking about the psychology of marriage, let's talk about like really dialing in like a relationship, right? Like having the best marriage of your life. And maybe I saw some content you put out recently and read some other things. And it's about something else, but your zone of genius is not the something else that I'm about to do an hour of podcasting on. Now, all of a sudden, I, you're not even in your zone of genius. You're not giving me the good parts of you. You're not even giving me a good story. Cause you left it all in my hands to try to guess exactly what I should ask you about to drop you right into the center of your zone of genius and give me all the great things that you know.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  And so I think the, you know, one of the things that I'm going to be chatting more on and actually doing um, an offer on is truly like getting you to all understand, I need better guests. Like I need you to be a better guest. And so I, I think there's just such a gap in getting people to learn how to storytell and bring them through. It's almost like a life funnel. It's truly a, you're learning how to do a podcast funnel as a guest and bring me through the story all the way to the bottom, but keep me interested throughout to that call of action, which is really, really exciting for me and because I've been in it for 10 years and I've heard, I mean, that's 1,600 conversations. That's a lot.

• 51:53Speaker 00

  Signing up. I want to echo that because it just, when you were talking, it took me back to the very early days of my podcast. And I had Mel Robbins on there way before um, she started her own podcast. And the way that she took podcast guesting was mind blowing. So she sent me a podcast pack ahead of time and it had all of the hooks that work really well for her. All of the stories that she's very well versed in telling. And she had a recommendation, what would land for my audience, right? She was prepared. She gave me a stack of notes. She told me what time she'd arrive, what time she would leave, what we had to really cover. And again, this was, this was a long time ago. This was way before she really leapt into the zeitgeist.

• 52:37Speaker 00

  And we weren't getting huge traction back then. We had our current audience, but like Laurie's saying, that's not really enough to get your podcast out there. And I read this press pack, it made my life as a host very easy. And I'm still like learning how to interview. And I asked her the one question she told me to ask in the way she told me to ask it. And then I titled the episode in the way in which she told me to do it. That one clip blew up single-handedly my YouTube, my podcast, my social media. It went so mega viral. I think that one video alone brought in 15,000 subscribers on YouTube. It was mind blowing and that was all because she knew how to be a guest. And I, that's always, always stuck with me, but I haven't put the two and two together since you said that.

• 53:22Speaker 00

  So I absolutely love that. Okay. Tell me, what are you most excited about right now?

• 53:28Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh, I think I'm kind of like you where I'm like, my God, I actually have a life where I get to do these things that I love every single day, which is so awesome. Um, I'm actually very excited about that. I can't wait to teach people how to be a guest. I'm coming up with something right now because that's one of my biggest struggles is good guests. And I think when you have that much volume and in a world of podcasts going up, like it's insane. Everybody has a literal podcast, everyone. Um, I really, really want to teach people the power of exactly that going on and making the podcaster's life easy. But then also you guys, the money that is in that is staggering when you do it right. Like I can't even imagine what audience that brought to Mel for sure.

• 54:08Speaker 01

  Now there's been people that have gone on her podcast and no one has ever gone to the guest that's on because they didn't have any of that. I guarantee majority of those listeners went and got in her funnel and purchased something from her. And so I'm very, very excited about that. Um, always so excited about glossy and getting to do those things with you. And I'm excited about, we actually um, also became a part of a peptide company. So I'm excited about that.

• 54:36Speaker 00

  I love this. Hit me up when I start breastfeeding.