482: High-Functioning Burnout Exposed: Relationship Resentment

Why does resentment creep into the relationships of ambitious women - especially when you feel like you’re “doing it all”? In Part 4 of our 5-Part High-Functioning Burnout Exposed series with Awaken the Muse, Natalie, Alexi Panos and Emily Gallagher unpack how unspoken needs, over-functioning, and self-betrayal quietly erode intimacy + how to rebuild connection without abandoning your drive. You’ll learn a clearer frame for reverse polarity (respect vs. cherish), how to shift from blame to vulnerable truth, and a simple reset that restores your sense of power and wholeness in a relationship. You’ll leave with tools to read your nervous system, name the desire under the complaint, and create more safety, softness, and spark - without carrying all the emotional load. TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Why resentment builds for high-performing women 03:20 Modern roles & reverse polarity: respect vs. being cherished 06:52 The resentment–self-betrayal loop (micro “yeses” when you mean no) 08:58 Softness, vulnerability, and nervous-system safety in love 12:30 From complaints to desires: how to ask cleanly 15:40 “I’m tired of the emotional labor” - a different way forward 17:55 The 90-day self-first reset to reclaim your clarity and choice 31:20 Tending triggers: inner child work, grief, and self-intimacy 37:10 Green lights and micro-appreciations: small shifts that change dynamics RESOURCES + LINKS ⁠Click Here To Join Soft Success⁠: A Free Masterclass Experience To Guide You In Ending High-Functioning Burnout And Redefine Success On Your Terms. Sign Up For Our Free Weekly Newsletter & Get Insights From Natalie Every Single Week On All Things Strategy, Motherhood, Business Growth + More. Drop Us A Review On The Podcast + Send Us A Screenshot & We’ll Send You Natalie’s 7-Figure Operating System Completely FREE (value $1,997).

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Let's be honest, you built a business, held a vision, shown up for everyone, and yet you still feel unseen, unheld, understood only for what you give. Maybe it's in your relationship, why you're doing all the emotional labour, holding the logistics and secretly wondering, when is someone gonna hold me the way I am holding everything else? Or maybe it's so much deeper than that, maybe you have spent so long minimizing your needs, performing that chill, playing cool girl energy to keep the peace, that you don't even know what true connection would even feel like anymore. This is the episode where we are really going to go there. Because the truth is, you cannot keep asking to be met while refusing to meet yourself.

• 0:42Speaker 00

  That quiet resentment you're carrying, that's unspoken desire, that is unmet truth. And so we are calling this one, you're not being met, but are you meeting yourself? Because what we are really exploring today is intimacy, and I'm talking real intimacy. The kind that starts with you, with your boundaries, with your voice, your ability to be honest about what you truly want. So if you've ever felt like the caretaker, the peacekeeper, or the over-functioner in your relationships, this conversation is really going to shift something big for you. Let's get into it.

• 1:20Speaker 00

  This is one conversation that I think I'm most excited to have, probably because it's the most edgy for me. Because if I'm being really honest, two of the most challenging areas in my life have been the areas where I build up resentments in my relationships. Yeah. Not just my marriage, like my relationships and resentment actually ruined one of the most important relationships in my life. And I think it's just important to name that because I don't think resentment will ruin the relationship. I think that's the unwillingness to look at it and have the conversation that will. That's one piece of it, and the other piece is really, I have really struggled in the past with being vulnerable. Yeah. And allowing myself to go there because it felt so unsafe.

• 2:02Speaker 00

  And my work over the last few years has been primarily on those two things. Yeah. And I think it's come from many places, but I think a lot of- High performing women can really relate. And for me, I just was that person in my relationships that would over give, would over extend, would say yes when I meant no, would peacemake because that's what I did when I was younger.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:23Speaker 00

  One thing I've heard, the, the concept talked about is like being a really high functioning codependent. Where actually it doesn't look like codependence at all because you are so hyper independent.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:35Speaker 00

  But it's done from a place of trying to appease people, trying to be everything. Because when you are everything to everyone, you're safe. That's the story that.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, they'll, they'll ever abandon you.

• 2:45Speaker 00

  Exactly. And it's just been really big work for me the last few years. And I will say of all the work that I have done, this work has improved my marriage the most.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:54Speaker 00

  Because I mean, even I would say five years ago, six years ago, when we were talking about doing our last podcast series. One of the big struggles in my relationship was, am I too in my masculine? If I'm the breadwinner, am I in my masculine? You know, is my husband leading enough? And I felt like he wasn't.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:12Speaker 00

  And I started building resentment towards him for that. And the work to move through that was not to get him to show up differently.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  That, yep.

• 3:20Speaker 00

  And that was really, really hard for me to hear back then. And people said that to me and I resented them to say it.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 3:26Speaker 00

  And I was like, you know, you don't see my dynamic. He's not picking up his socks. He's not doing X, Y, Z.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:32Speaker 00

  So I want to get into it. And Alexi, I, I know we had a previous conversation about this and the way you explained it was really, really fascinating. I want this episode to be for the woman who is really struggling in relationships, whether she is in relationship or not, is really, really struggling because she is ambitious and she is high performing.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:50Speaker 00

  And she's empty.

• 3:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:53Speaker 00

  She's not getting what she wants from the relationship. So she's either not staying in them or she's staying in one that she really wishes was different.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  Not feeling met. Oh, it's so big. And first of all, I just want to normalize, we are actually in an epidemic of relational dysfunction now because our roles have shifted so dramatically in the last 50 years. Women have, I mean, we have taken up so much space in a world that previously there was no room for us. And I really just want to normalize for. Women out there who are ambitious, who are making money, who have a dream and a vision on their heart. This is the most challenging place. This is the most challenging place for me too. I know for Emma as well. Learning how to actually move from vulnerability and move from our softness feels really scary because we have literally built our entire sense of safety in our world based on the more masculine traits,

• 4:41Speaker 01

  which are not the soft, vulnerable traits. And we still want love. We still want to feel met. We still want to feel like our man can lead and our partner can lead in that way. And so there's this concept in the work of man-woman relating that says the man, the traditional whoever takes the role of man in relationship, wants respect in a relationship. Females want to feel cherished. Now, in order to feel cherished, that means we're cherished for our heart, for our goodness, for our pleasure, for our aliveness, for the light and life we bring to a room. That's cherished. Respect is for what we've built, who we are in the world, what we bring to the table. And that's more of the masculine traits. Now, as women have entered the workforce and we have excelled, you know, sometimes beyond how men are doing, right?

• 5:25Speaker 01

  We are crushing it. We are so capable. It doesn't mean that we have to take that off the shelf. It just means that we've actually put all the qualities that we want to be cherished for up on the shelf. And we've gone, okay, so do you see how much I've built? Do you see how much I do? Do you see how much I provide? Do you see how much I take care of the house? Do you see how I take care of the kids? I want to feel respected for what I bring to the table. And therefore, it shifts the dynamic in a relationship where if we're wanting respect and maybe a little bit of cherishing too, the man goes, oh, well, I'm not feeling appreciated. I'm not feeling seen. I'm not feeling met. I'm not feeling adored. I'm not feeling celebrated. I'm not feeling acknowledged, cherished. So now we have reverse polarity.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  And that is the thing that we see. Almost 99% of our women who come to us are experienced reverse polarity in their relationship. And they're like, how do I get out of this? This is not sexy. I want my man to lead. I want to feel cherished. I want to feel claimed. I don't want to be doing as much as I'm doing. Still want to work, still want to be successful, but I don't want to feel like I have to carry it all. And I think the modern woman is like, I I'm so tired of feeling like I'm carrying everything. Why do I even need a relationship? And that's the epidemic we're in where women are actually like, we don't need a man anymore because we make the money, we do all the things and a man becomes a headache that's just complaining about not being cherished. But deep down, deep down, our woman, our woman wants to be adored. That woman inside of us is like, oh, I want to be appreciated. I want to be seen. I want to be acknowledged.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  But there's no room for her because we're not even making room for her. We're not celebrating and putting value in the traits that get acknowledged and cherished. We're focused on making it happen. We're focused on doing the thing and we're doing it well, but we're tired. And I think this is where we find ourselves really going, oh, I'm so resentful. This was me and my marriage. I am so resentful. I'm doing all the things. And then here you are going, you're not doing enough for me. And I'm like, you have got to be kidding me. That was like literally the demise of, we almost got divorced. And what I recognized in that moment was, well, what I was saying was true and I could find evidence for. Oh, he's leaving socks on the ground and you're not helping with the dishes and da, da, da. And what he was saying, I wasn't doing enough of not acknowledging him enough, not appreciating him enough,

• 7:37Speaker 01

  which he could find evidence for. The real thing that moved the needle for me was like, wherever there is resentment, there is self betrayal. And I started looking at my relationship, almost like a movie, like I zoomed out. And I started looking at my relationship and all these little moments where I over functioned when I was too tired. When I did the thing and I didn't want to. When I didn't say the thing that I was actually feeling because I didn't want to start a fight and just wanted to keep it simple and go to sleep. All these little micro self betrayals. I'm like, no wonder why I'm so resentful because I haven't been honoring myself. And I'm resentful because I'm doing all this stuff and I'm mad because he's not respecting what I'm doing. But the ache in my heart just wants to be cherished. But I need to learn how to cherish myself first and I did not have a practice of that. Did not have a practice of that.

• 8:21Speaker 02

  It really is. I think like Lex said, really realizing we're in such a, such a different time. And I think also what I want to bring to this conversation as well is understanding like, men are also really confused. And I know we're talking to women, but also the context at which a lot of us are coming towards our relational dynamics is, is very. Again, like the work that we do, it's it's taking away this contingency. If they were just, then I could.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  Which is what I said. Well, if prestidigous changed, then everything would be better.

• 8:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, I've been there.

• 8:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so it's like really cultivating, like just to piggyback on what Lex was saying, to understand that us as a woman, we are in a reclamation of where we place our value as women inherently. And for a lot of us, especially if you're listening to this podcast, you probably, as we've been continuing to say, generate a lot of your value from your output, from your success, from being, you know, we had this massive shift in a society where what it meant to be a successful woman went from being just marry, marryable to now it was now you're a career, or now you're you had to be entrepreneurial. Like it became this next box that had to be ticked. So it was, that really was what drive drove a lot of our value. I remember going on dates when I was in the midst of this and I would be talking about my business and my launch. And I I genuinely thought that's what made me a valuable woman. I was leading with this.

• 9:33Speaker 00

  This is gonna turn him on. Yeah, so he knows how much I made.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  Literally. And I, but I really felt that. And it was because there was no valuing of, and this is a massive reconditioning that we take the woman on in our work to actually realize. And if we're thinking about man, woman relating, firstly, you have to obviously create it for yourself to really redefine and reclaim what makes you valuable. Your light, your radiance, the joy, like these innate feminine pieces. It's not dropping the masculine qualities. It's not dropping achievement, as we've already explored so much on this podcast. But it is really becoming again in relationship with what makes you valuable as a woman. And there's no bigger place that this becomes important than in a relationship with a man. Because what is inherently valuable to a man is your lightness, is your radiance, is your vulnerability,

• 10:19Speaker 02

  is your softness, is your capacity and availability to really receive him. If we're actually thinking about what, you know, again, what he needs to create that. Like we see women in our program, and we've seen it for ourselves. When we just focus on our capacity to step more into that, the relationship shifts. It shifts because the energy that's coming is now so different, it creates the polarity. So it puts him back into where you want him to be. And so it's really like firstly, again, for ourselves, how do we be in the practice of, and you know, intimacy practice. Is intimacy with self. Again, like all, like you're saying, all the conversations that didn't happen, all the times it was easier to not speak up because in those moments that requires intimacy. It requires communication skill. It remind, it requires you sharing your feelings.

• 11:03Speaker 02

  It requires you legitimizing that you feel dissatisfied or upset and the capacity to actually share that. So it's, it's a practice that most of us don't have. It's a skill set a lot of us don't have. And so it is easier to just kind of push it aside and then generate the resentment. And yeah, that, that capacity to be soft, that's why the, the practice first starts with self. Cause it's like, do I have the practice of being, to actually listen to myself? Do I have the practice to making space for my own hurt? Do I have the practice of actually tending to myself first? Instead of actually thinking that my safety and my needs need to be met by this person?

• 11:36Speaker 01

  Which, which is crazy to think about, right?

• 11:38Speaker 02

  It's crazy.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  Like an emotional experience. How many women, ourselves included, would be like, my man can't hold space for my emotions.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  Right? Meanwhile, we can't even hold space for our own emotions. We can't even sit in the discomfort of feeling any type of emotion and we expect our partner to meet us there.

• 11:55Speaker 02

  Total, a hundred percent. It's wild when we actually start to peel it back and it's liberating. They want us to be liberating because it means that we have already the capacity to shift our relational dynamics when we step into this practice with ourselves. And, and even the, the narratives of too needy, too much, all of these reasons why we also push down our needs and push down our desires that then obviously generates the resentment and the frustration. Being in the practice of actually allowing your fullness as a woman, because you sharing, like this is the irony to it, it's cosmic joke. A man actually yearns to protect and provide for you when you share from a soft, vulnerable place. When you actually share your feelings, not your resentments, right? When you're actually in the moment of hurt, having the intimacy with self and the, the holding of self to share from that place.

• 12:39Speaker 02

  He's very receptive to that. The masculine is very receptive for that. What he's not receptive to is blame. Men, this is, I think, a thing that really a lot of women need to get more. Men are so much more sensitive than we give them credit for. Really, truly, like their story of not enoughness, their story of inadequacy, their story of shame is so big. And so when we, yeah, that's why. When we actually want to generate a different result, the one of the big pieces of self responsibility we get to do as women is actually coming from that soft, open heart. And again, that's why that that's the muscle we get to build first with ourselves. And then can we take that because it's fucking scary. It's so scary to say, hey, here's my heart and my feelings. Because firstly, we don't have to practice with self, but then sharing that.

• 13:22Speaker 02

  But it's just a really big piece to get because I think there's a lot of narrative around men are shit and they're not leading and they're doing this. And we have to be really sober about this conversation too, of how we're playing into that and how we are then we're co generating that experience with these men.

• 13:37Speaker 00

  So here's what we're rubbing up against.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:39Speaker 00

  Really want us to talk about. There's going to be some women listening and I know this because I was her.

• 13:44Speaker 02

  Sure, I've agitated people even with that, I reckon.

• 13:46Speaker 00

  No, but I was her and my, I remember having this conversation, I think it was five years ago, bringing up all of these things and I got told some of this stuff and I said, no, I am not doing more than I'm already doing.

• 14:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:01Speaker 00

  I'm already doing so much. Why should I take on the emotional labor of this?

• 14:06Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 14:07Speaker 00

  And I couldn't get out of my own way for a really, really long time, being totally honest. That was the thing that tripped me up.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  Same, I was there too.

• 14:15Speaker 00

  Can we talk about that?

• 14:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I was there too. And I mean, I had so many conversations with her being one of my besties. Whereas like, I'm so done with the emotional labor. I'm not holding this, I'm not doing this anymore. And what I get, what I got from that was, and we talked about this in an earlier episode, is the problem was going to be there regardless of what I chose to do about it, right? So I could either do the emotional labor and move in how I used to move in of like, okay, we've got to fix this, we got to do this, let's do these skills and this da, da, da, da. That's how I was approaching everything. There's a solution to this, right? Very masculine approach. What I was avoiding, what I was pretending not to know was that what was missing from our relationship was my heart, was my vulnerability, was the felt experience of the heartbreak I was feeling from feeling dropped, right?

• 15:01Speaker 01

  But I was scared to bring that in, so I just focused on strategies. I focused on like, let's do more work, let's figure this out, let's get another communication. We stacked up. Tools, so many tools, so many sessions, therapy, so many things. But the thing that moved the needle was when I dropped all of that, all the labor, all the doing, I just went into my heart and felt. First for myself, what's actually here? What's actually here? Oh, my heart is breaking. First for myself, look at all the ways I abandoned myself. Look at all the ways I over-functioned. Look at all the ways I bent over backwards and contorted and overdid to try and get love and appreciation and safety. Oh, my gosh, heartbreak. And then, my gosh, heartbreak for my marriage. What did we create? How did we get here? This was not, I had to like grieve the expectation I had of the marriage I thought I would have.

• 15:45Speaker 01

  And then, and then, and then, and then I could meet him. Because I was first meeting myself and I stopped avoiding what was there by trying to do more work.

• 15:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  And so that was the big shift for me was like the labor was technically my avoidance strategy.

• 15:59Speaker 02

  And that's the piece too where it's like you're not, it's not doing more, it's just doing different. So it's, it's not actually taking more on, but it's just, it's being willing to try something different. Because, and be really honest about the strategy or the way that we're currently doing it. Because for most of us, if you're anything like, you know, the many, many, many, many women that we've worked with and ourselves, we need work in this area, especially as a high achieving woman, right? Because we've been, we are so much more conditioned into achievement, driving, output, we don't, we haven't placed as much practice on the, the opening of our heart, the softness, the, just as women, really valuing the superpower of our tenderness, right? Because there's so much conditioning around being strong and all of these pieces. And so it's not more, it's just different.

• 16:45Speaker 02

  And, and it's, it can feel, you know, we have this, it's like about talking about, you know, complaints are lazy desires, right? So these resentments, these complaints that we have, there's a desire under there. And most of the time, the strategy that we're using in relationship is, I wish you would just, or like complaining without taking full responsibility for really owning the desire. Because the desire can be sensitive. It can make us feel vulnerable. It can make us feel like we're asking for too much. So that's the mature relating approach that we can then, again, it's liberating, it's not about feeling, and of course I understand the frustration, but it's not about the frustration of. Feeling like now I've got to do more. It's actually liberating, meaning like, wow, I can change the, a lot of my relational dynamic by taking ownership of this piece.

• 17:27Speaker 02

  And again, firstly for me, because this is me being in ownership of my own desires, of my own heart, of being willing to communicate vulnerably. Like, that's deep self-growth. There's nowhere that that's not going to serve you. And so it's, it's, it's less about like, oh, the tit for tat of now I've got to do more for him. Like, this is deep reverence for self, for how you want to open your heart, how you want to be. And again, what kind of woman do I want to be? Do I want to have an open heart? Do I want to be able to share my desires? And, you know, we have this, you can also be in the practice, because there may be relational dynamics that even when you do that, don't shift. Or even when you do that, don't feel good. And again, this just gives you really beautiful information. It means I brought my full heart, I brought my full self, I stepped fully into my woman.

• 18:10Speaker 02

  And then what happened here, again, for a lot of our women, we see that the man still shifts. The relationship shifts because it can pivot him into, it activates his masculine. Activate that steps him into who you want him to be. It's not the, you know, the feeling like he's being inadequate.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  And that's what the big shift was for me, is again, really highlighting, because the woman who's out there saying that, I hear you, I see you, I get you, I was you. Of like, I refuse to keep holding this thing together. I'm the glue. I'm sick of being the glue. I'm tired. And that question, I literally, like, I remember having a moment when I was thinking about leaving Preston. And thinking like, oh, like, when I start dating again, like, I'm going to feel so different as a woman, I'm going to feel so free and so liberated.

• 18:52Speaker 02

  Puss in, puss in comes along and meets all my needs.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  I'm like, oh, there's going to be this man out there that's just doesn't throw his socks on the floor and like, keeps a clean kitchen. And just like, you know, we dream about the grass is green or whatever other side we're looking at. And I had a very sobering moment as I was dreaming. And I kind of chuckled to myself, why aren't you being that woman now? Oh, you're, you're waiting for this dreamy, perfect man to show up to be the type of woman you want to be, like, be her now. And that question of like, what type of woman do I want to be, irrespective of if I choose to stay? Because maybe I choose to leave at that point, I wasn't sure. But I was like, I want to do this for me. And so I took the idea. Of I'm doing this for our relationship. I took that off the table and I actually had a conversation with Preston and I said, hey, let's do 90 days where we stop working on the relationship.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  Where we stop going, who do I need to be for this relationship? What do I need to hold? And we just say, you do you, I'll do me. We're still committed, we're still together, but we're not functioning for a relationship. We're functioning for ourselves. And that subtle shift, 90 days, changed my life. Because in those 90 days is when I really started to get clear on the answer to the question, what type of woman do I want to be? And it felt so good. It's like I got to feel myself again. And I'm like, oh, there she is. And some parts I knew and I recognized from before, some parts were brand new. And who's this woman? I love this person. And from that place, I got to re-enter the relationship with the eyes of my fullness, the eyes of my full woman and go, do I choose this? And from that place, I could go, yes. And he could say, yes.

• 20:23Speaker 01

  And we both chose each other again, from a new place of fullness and sovereignty, based on scarcity and victimhood of you've got to contort yourself to be different for me, to feel safe to open. Preston and I were both playing a version of that game. And that game will build resentment. It will build self betrayal because you're constantly going, who do I need to be to feel safe in this dynamic? Versus, I feel safe because I'm choosing to be myself and I'm going to bring that safety to you. And going back to, some dynamics won't change. Some dynamics won't change. You could do all the work. You could actualize the woman that you're like, oh, yes, I'm here. You enter and step back into your relationship and you're like, okay, it hasn't shifted. But the woman that is fully in her sovereign power knows how to choose what's right for her.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  And you make a choice not out of codependency, not out of, oh, my gosh, I need to stay in this relationship.

• 21:10Speaker 02

  And not out of the delusion that something, somebody else is going to change because you haven't done the work.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  Right, but then you really get to choose from sovereignty and from fullness. And so as M said, it's like, this is a game that's a win-win game because you get to actually experience yourself as a woman. And take it off of, I'm doing this for the relationship because that's the inherent problem. Women are trained, like, what do I have to do for the relationship? And that's why we're tired of the emotional labor because our orientation is always like, what do I need to do for the relationship? Who do I need to be? For the relationship versus who do I need to be for myself? What do I need to do for myself? So that a full self can show up in a relationship and choose it or not.

• 21:48Speaker 00

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• 22:32Speaker 00

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• 23:15Speaker 00

  I wanna go a little bit deeper in this because I think there's women listening who, and we, we see this a lot and I have this with my clients too, who will be brushing up against things like my husband doesn't lead. My man just isn't alpha enough. He is X Y Z. He's too soft. He's demanding too much from me. He's not seeing me. He's not contributing enough, all of these things. And I wanna go back to your divorce point.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:43Speaker 00

  Cause I just wanna highlight the gravity of this.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh yeah.

• 23:46Speaker 00

  You two went through this. You have four kids together.

• 23:49Speaker 01

  Yep, all very. Very young at the time.

• 23:50Speaker 00

  All very young.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  Just had a brand new baby.

• 23:52Speaker 00

  You did?

• 23:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:53Speaker 00

  Very, a young baby. I just want to land this. Very young children, a lot of enmeshment in businesses.

• 23:59Speaker 01

  Multiple businesses.

• 24:00Speaker 00

  Real estate, investment, community.

• 24:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:03Speaker 00

  You had both, have both been together for a very, very long time and built very big, full lives together.

• 24:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:10Speaker 00

  And when you are saying this, it is not a flippant, it was a point where we were thinking of getting divorced. This was very real.

• 24:17Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:17Speaker 00

  And very real.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:19Speaker 00

  And so going back to that point, when you say, I decided for the next 90 days, I am doing this for me. Can you, knowing the gravity of that situation, because you knew at the end of the 90 days, if this didn't work, by all intents and purposes, your life could fall apart.

• 24:37Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:37Speaker 00

  And it affects your kids and it affects, and that is very, very hard for women to grasp. And, and a lot of women will stay stuck in people pleasing and I'll just keep going because I can't fathom leaving because of the kids or because of the businesses or because of X, Y, Z. So I just want to land the gravity of that because I know that some women listening need that.

• 24:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:56Speaker 00

  So going back to the beginning of those 90 days, when you knew what was on the other side of it and you were willing to just go all in, what did it look like to really choose you? Because this was probably the first time in a really long time, you just chose you, not the businesses, not the husband, not the kids, but you.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, I love that you're bringing this up because at first I didn't know. I'm like, what does it look like to pour into me? Like, how do I answer the question, who do I want to be as a woman? Because my whole life has been oriented on who do I need to be as a wife? Who do I need to be as a business person? Who do I need to be as a mentor, as a leader, as a, fill in the blank, right? So I, I, I didn't know at first. And I think that's the real sober reality that I want to just preface here is that it took some time to get into a new orientation around like, oh, I matter. Oh, my needs matter. Oh, my desires are legitimate. Oh, play and rest are okay and I don't have to feel guilty for it. I had to face off with all of the patterns that I had around who.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  Who I was as a woman that haven't been serving me for a really long time, but were so well ingrained and keeping me very quote unquote, "successful" from the outside that I had to actually reckon with, "Oh, what if I don't choose that anymore?" And this is where my life started to shift dramatically. I started to like, look differently at my businesses. Like, why do I have all these people that I employ? When like, I feel like I'm still doing everything and started like, I literally like trimmed my business all the way down. I stopped doing aspects of my business where I'm like, I'm hiring that out. I'm not doing that anymore. Started going to, to dance classes and embodiment classes, started doing so much shadow work and looking at all the places I was judging or shaming myself or other people and going like, "Oh, what does that mean about what I'm repressing?"

• 26:41Speaker 01

  And just spending so much time in my body, doing nervous system work, literally every single day I was doing 10 minutes of nervous system work. And just like, building a relationship with my body and recognizing, like, finding these pockets of joy, but also finding these depths of grief. I was in so much grief. When I say I was grieving the expectation of what I thought my marriage would be, I was grieving hardcore. Like, I would be like, in a puddle for a couple of days and just feel all of it and give myself permission to, which I never did. I was the woman who used to look at people who would get emotional and be like, "Oh gosh, please get your shit together." Like, that was who I was, right? Like, everyone who knew me was like, "Oh yeah, Lex is not the emotional type." Now I cry at like, the drop of a hat because I'm just so in touch with my sensorial body.

• 27:26Speaker 01

  Like, I can feel life, the good, the bad, the ugly, everything in between. And so it was this like, journey of getting to know myself again as this, you know, 39-year-old woman that's like, "Okay, I've got four kids and like, all these businesses, but who am I without that? Who am I if everything changes? Who am I if I'm no longer married to this man? And like, having this life together as this couple in the community? Like, who am I? And who do I want to be?" And I just started playing with my, my life, the idea of who I was, what I wanted. I like, followed the little curiosities. And this is really where Anne and I, like, we just so happened, as besties would, to be going through this rebirth, death and rebirth cycle at the same time. This is where we built our work called The Muse, because we literally started a text

• 28:10Speaker 01

  Red called muses and it was like, what would life look like if we lived as our muse? If we lived as the creative force that inspired everything, like all of creative acts in the world? What if we lived as her? What would be different? And that's literally the question we asked and we would just put it in the text. Said, oh, today we did this and da, da, da, da. And then she'd fly in because she's kind of in and out at the time. And it just transformed how we did life, that question.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, fundamentally shifted the way that we woman in every way.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  Every way.

• 28:39Speaker 02

  I want to also just drop this in here and this is a big thing to drop in. So we can maybe pick it up and maybe not. But it's also understanding that in all relational dynamics, you likely attracted the person who's going to trigger you more than anybody ever will.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  Say it louder.

• 28:53Speaker 02

  But really also understanding the dynamic of that, like our wounding, the places we have resentments, the places we have hurts. Like we uniquely get more wounded and hurt in different places. What hurts me is different to what hurts Lexi. Because our background and our wounding is different. But what's going to likely show up in our relationship dynamic? Wherever we get the most wounding. And so that's again, why it's, I share this because it's liberating and empowering. Because whilst your relationship absolutely should be a place of support and healing, and it absolutely should be, it also isn't the responsibility of the person to meet all of your needs so that you feel what you need to feel. Because the, the, the purpose really of a healing relationship is to help mend those parts of us.

• 29:35Speaker 02

  But the, the, the places we get the most activation are places from our childhood. Just, I mean, it's, that's not even, that's science, right? That's a fact. So it's also knowing that when you're getting that, the places you're getting the most activated. Because again, you know, the, the, it being about the sock on the floor or the dishwasher not open, right? It's never about that, right? It's about a bigger feeling of not feeling held or not feeling supported or not feeling seen or not feeling validated, right? And so firstly, really understanding that's what's actually going on. Because that gives you the access point to know like, it's not about the fucking sock, man. It's like, there's a bigger piece. And so first and foremost, the more that we're aware of that and aware of where we're the most sensitive and hurt. Firstly, we can really tend to that ourselves. That's again, why I say like that self.

• 30:20Speaker 02

  Intimacy piece, we say that like tending to that because that is the thing that's driving the reaction. And so the more that we tend to that, the more that we love on that, the more we become a woman who opens her heart to that wounding of herself. Again, the the less reactive it is because we're tending to it so much ourself. And so the the agitation is less active. And that allows us also to take, because when we get in that reactivity and we get in the resentment and we throw the the dagger back or we hit the, you know, we throw something we don't, we say something we didn't feel good about, right? Like, that's the opportunity first to go, okay, I'm hitting something and I need to tend to that first. Because that's what allows us to then take our more open heart to our partner, which then then creates the reaction that is more conducive to the relationship we want.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:04Speaker 02

  Because we don't take, yeah, because we don't want to take the reactivity because that's what continues to drive the cycle. That allows us when we tend to ourselves first, we can actually then take, hey babe, what I'm really noticing is I feel really, I feel hurt. I feel sad about da, da, da. And and also we're in ownership of it and it's not making it their responsibility. And they can work with that. Men are good at working with that. But that's, it's knowing that that's what's it's touching on versus just all these micro ways. Because that gives us a bit of filter for actually seeing, oh, this is also my shit, right?

• 31:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's the piece I wanted to touch on is in that 90 days, I was just doing work on coming back home to myself. Which meant like a ton of inner child work and like tending to the vulnerable heart that was like, I had been ignoring for years, for decades. Because it's like more, more, produce, produce, produce. I was intending to my tenderness. And when I started doing that, when I came back after the 90 days, it was like, I could actually see the man that was in front of me versus like the problem. Right? And I think I was relating to Preston prior to that as the problem and where he was deficient and where he wasn't showing up and not.

• 32:09Speaker 02

  And they can feel that.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  They can feel that. He felt all of it. And of course, it triggers their shame and like their not enoughness and all the things. But when I could actually meet him in my tenderness, I could feel his tenderness. And then we actually, and we talk about this, like, that's when we actually started our real relationship. You know, after 13 years together, it started at that point. Because we were actually meeting the tender parts and not like the protective parts, not the parts that were shielding and guarding and doing in order to be safe. We met the real parts and that realness was like the relief that I was searching for the whole time in trying to get him to pick his socks up off the floor. I needed the relief of feeling like, where are you? Where are you? Where are you? Which is really my soul going, where are you? Where are you? Where are you to me?

• 32:54Speaker 01

  But when I showed up for myself, I could see him. And that's when it fundamentally shifted our polarity. It shifted everything, like our sex changed, everything changed because we were finally meeting each other from the true self and not the guard.

• 33:07Speaker 02

  And I think that that just like, let's just underline that for a second, that after 13 years of marriage, they finally met each other in intimacy, like open hearted intimacy.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  Like real.

• 33:15Speaker 02

  That just really speaks to how, how hard this can be, how challenging this can be. We're in the work as couples and like the, the challenge of actually being like firstly, opening our heart to ourselves and then allowing someone else to meet us there. And I underline this point because this is what we see time and time and time again. And it speaks to the question of why won't he lead me? That, that, that all of the concerns and the, the, the challenges that get brought in. And again, we're talking to the woman here. So, you know, the men have their own conversation to have. So it's not like, woman, this is all our responsibility. But right now we're talking to the ladies, like there's a whole list of things we could talk to the men about, but it's like really understanding the dynamics of this. But we see it time and time again of I want this from my men, but I, I'm not actually the space for it.

• 34:00Speaker 02

  And so this is really this conversation of cultivating being the space for what we want. And again, it comes back to nervous system stuff because

• 34:08Speaker 01

  Always.

• 34:08Speaker 02

  Are we the space for the intimacy we want? Can we actually receive it? That's why, again, after 13 years of being in the work and being in relationship, actually both of them are creating newer capacity to receive deeper levels of intimacy. So it's just really speaks to, again, the liberation that's available when we take responsibility for it and the hurt and the pain that's in the way of the thing that we want, because it's convenient to say, if you would just pick up your socks.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 34:34Speaker 02

  Or if you would just do the piece, then I would feel better. But it's not that. And again, it's the hungry ghost. It's never enough. Because it's actually something that has, we have to cultivate more in here.

• 34:43Speaker 00

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• 35:28Speaker 00

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• 36:11Speaker 00

  And a question, so we talked about at the beginning of the episode, men really want respect, women really wanna be cherished.

• 36:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:17Speaker 00

  And something you said, Emily, was about how a really hard thing for a man to handle in the place they go to when things aren't going well in a relationship is shame. What is it for the woman? What is the equivalent of that for the woman? So we know what they want.

• 36:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:31Speaker 00

  What shows up the most for women and the way that shame would show up for, for men, what shows up for women?

• 36:37Speaker 02

  I would say unworthiness, for feeling unworthy. It's like unworthy of, yeah.

• 36:41Speaker 00

  Like I am not enough.

• 36:42Speaker 02

  I'm not enough.

• 36:43Speaker 00

  The man is like, I can't do enough, the complaint we hear from.

• 36:46Speaker 02

  Getting it wrong.

• 36:47Speaker 00

  I'm getting it wrong. It'll never be good enough.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  Never get it right. That's what we hear from the men, from the women is like, I'll never be enough. I'll never be pretty enough. I'll never be thin enough. I'll never be good enough. And it's that the inherent enoughness that we're both playing with, but for men, it's more of like doing. Women, it's more of being.

• 37:03Speaker 00

  So what do we think? So for a woman, what is one thing for someone in relationship? A woman can say to their partner, their man, that's going to make them feel less shame, more respect.

• 37:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:14Speaker 00

  And then what is something they can ask for that their man could be reflecting back to them? That is going to make them feel more cherished and more worthy. So we're going to send them off on their own journeys, but is there a, is this an action they could be doing and then asking for in return?

• 37:31Speaker 02

  I mean, in terms of making your man feel more respected, like it's the littlest things. Like this is actually the beautiful thing about men. Like I have so many beautiful men friends and spending a lot of time with a couple here recently. Who are just really beautiful, conscious men. And they just reflect even like when they open my door, like I get giddy. They, they carry my bottle for me. Oh my gosh, thank you so much. Like it's these little moments of receptivity as a woman that light men up and makes them feel worthy, makes them feel respected, makes them feel appreciated, makes them feel like you're noticing what they're doing. Like these little things, like they're actually like, it's honestly so, not to just be like emasculating, but they're such sweet boys inside. Truly like, and what actually makes them feel valued and worthy is so it doesn't take much and they don't actually want that much.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  And then they want to give us the world really. So these little things, like how can you appreciate the little micro things? Truly just that will light your man up massively.

• 38:23Speaker 01

  I want to jump on that because I know a lot of women, especially in our world, the married, kids, you know, business. They're like, well, my man doesn't do enough that I respect. He's not leading in these ways. And just to do a quick reframe, like there are different ways that men can provide. And when we start to really expand our view and go, how are they providing for me? In the subtle ways of like, you know, opening the door or locking the doors at night or checking in on you or texting you back or rubbing your feet, like it's not always just financial. And I think we have to really expand our view of what it means to lead. So that's a big piece and you can really pull those together and a man. Man wants to know that he is being seen in his leadership. And so one of our teachers, Omra Pani, talks about this idea of red light, green light.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  And our reactions, men are always looking for, is that a red light or a green light?

• 39:11Speaker 02

  Am I winning? Am I winning?

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Literally.

• 39:12Speaker 02

  Am I winning? Am I winning? That's their main question.

• 39:15Speaker 01

  Right? And if they feel any sense of, oh, that might have been yellow, or it's red, then it's shame.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  And they go into shame. Now, it's not our job to protect them from their own shame and their own fragility. That's their work. But if we want to be in partnership and like set our

• 39:28Speaker 02

  And be generous. Like, do you want to be a generous woman as well?

• 39:31Speaker 01

  Let's be generous. And so I really think about that because I know sometimes like I'm a Virgo. I have very high standards and a lot of times he does not meet the standard I have of whatever, right? And so I think like, is this a yellow? Is this a red? Like, what signal am I giving him? So even just as Em said, like something so small for my husband, that's a green light is like, oh, thanks, babe. And just rubbing his arm. He's like, green light, green light, green light.

• 39:53Speaker 02

  Touch for sure. Touch.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  And it's the smallest thing. And for me, I'm like, really? But for him, it's so big. And the big like brownie points, if you go to your partner and you say, hey, what is a small thing I could do for you that would be like a level 10 of feeling cherished, loved, adored, respected, all the things for me? And let them tell you. And then do it once a week. Do it once a day. Like, we did a challenge, which is like a 30 day appreciation challenge for men in our life. I focused it on Preston. She did it for all these different men in our lives. And it was amazing.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  And it feels so good to be generous like that.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  So that's a big thing that we could do for our men. Green lights all day and it could be tiny.

• 40:29Speaker 02

  Because also just just knowing as well, like my brother says this to me a lot, like, men don't get touched. They don't get affirmed. They don't actually receive this. Like us as women, like we're always cuddling and loving. Like we had that beautiful ceremony for me the other day. I got poured into by my friends. Like it's such a common

• 40:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, we are lacking that.

• 40:46Speaker 02

  No, we're so full in that. And if a man is in partnership, that's probably, you're probably the only place

• 40:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:52Speaker 02

  That he's actually kind of safely able to receive that. And so even kind of knowing that, like, wow, like they're really starved of that. Firstly, it's their fuel and they're usually not getting enough of it. And again, we're not pandering to them, but like right now, we're having the conversation to the woman. So we're just kind of putting stuff on the table.

• 41:08Speaker 01

  And if we want to be generous. Generous in our partnerships. And if we want our partners to be generous with us.

• 41:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's gonna generate, it's gonna, it's gonna come back to you in tenfold.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  Tenfold. And that's the other piece. So for the, the ladies, really get clear on, do you want respect or do you want cherishing? Cause when I heard this concept, I really like, I thought about the woman I was when I met my husband. I wanted respect. I wanted respect. I wanted him to see me for my intellect, for what I built, for how I built it, for how hard I worked. I wanted respect. And I can't pretend that that woman wanted to be cherished, you know, but that woman was mad that I was more in a masculine in my relationship. But that's the role I actually wanted to be in unconsciously. So I would say number one, just get really.

• 41:53Speaker 02

  And also probably just more comfortable in, more comfortable in that role.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  Totally. And just get honest. Like, what do you actually want from your relationship? If you want respect, okay, but like consciously choose that and know that you're likely going to have reverse polarization in your relationship. But if you're choosing it, choose it, be okay with it. But if you, if maybe you've been operating from, oh, wow, I think I have wanted respect, but I'm craving to be cherished. Number one thing, cherish yourself. Like you have to start with actually lighting yourself up from within and going, oh, yes, my rest, my happiness, my pleasure, my joy, my excitement, my aliveness matters. Beauty matters. Time with friends matters. And the more we play in those qualities, the more it becomes an of course that we get cherished from others.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  Yes, we can ask for it, but we also just want to feel it for ourselves. And that's a job that we can take care of. I know like whenever, when we had that ceremony the other night, was Preston annoyed that I didn't get home until 11 o'clock? Yes. But he was like, I'm so glad you did that. He's like, you feel so full from that. And I was, because I took time to be with my friends, which the woman who wanted respect wouldn't have.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:59Speaker 01

  You know, and I think that's the difference. Cause we've got to learn how to like cherish ourselves and take care of ourselves in that way. Of course, ask for whatever you need and want from your partner. And make sure you're giving it to yourself first.

• 43:11Speaker 02

  And was that an edge for you to allow him to be unhappy with you staying out?

• 43:15Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. For sure. Because for me, again, the good wife, make, are you good? Like I remember I used to go out of town for things and like make sure everything was set up and all the groceries were done and da da da. Like you're good. Everything's handled. Here's the post-it notes. And now I'm just like, okay, bye. Figure it out. And the old me would have never done that.

• 43:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Because the the lack of control I would feel would make me feel so unsafe, would make my kids feel unsafe, even though he's a grown ass man. I could totally handle it. In my mind, I thought he couldn't.

• 43:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, I really relate to that. I would plan all the meals. I would do all the things. And then when I stopped doing it, I still was trying to control it from afar. I'm like, no, I've released control. But what are you feeding her tonight? Has she got X, Y, Z?

• 43:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 43:57Speaker 00

  And then I had to stop doing that. And what's been amazing is being so pleasantly surprised.

• 44:03Speaker 02

  Yes, love that.

• 44:04Speaker 00

  And that's been so nice, but it took me releasing all of my control in stages.

• 44:09Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:09Speaker 00

  Like, okay, I was prepping everything. Okay, I'm not gonna prep everything, but I'm still checking in.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 44:13Speaker 00

  Okay, I'm gonna fully release control.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:16Speaker 00

  And not even wonder.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:17Speaker 00

  And be surprised by it.

• 44:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, you treated yourself. You treated yourself into a new way of seeing.

• 44:22Speaker 00

  Slowly, slowly do it.

• 44:23Speaker 02

  And you left, yeah, you left space for what you wanted. That's the thing, right? It's like there's a lot of the time in these dynamics, there's no space for what women are wanting from their men because we're stepping into it.

• 44:34Speaker 01

  That's it. Because we don't trust. There's this.

• 44:36Speaker 02

  No, we don't trust.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  There's this thing that Om says.

• 44:37Speaker 02

  That's what they feel.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  Totally. And there's this thing that Om says, that teacher I was referring to, where he says, so many women say, how do I let my man leave?

• 44:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, even that.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, even that question of let.

• 44:47Speaker 02

  I'm giving you permission.

• 44:48Speaker 01

  I'm giving you permission. And he gives this example of driving a car. Like if you're a teenager and you're the mom and you're like, okay, I'm gonna let my son drive the car. We're sitting in the car like this. White knuckling like, oh, just break, break, break, break.

• 45:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:00Speaker 01

  And we're still technically driving the car with our energy and not letting him actually drive the car. Our son driving the car would be, okay, bye, here's the keys, go. But most of us are going, why is my husband leading, driving the car? Cause we're sitting there, white knuckling. Racing.

• 45:15Speaker 02

  Not like that. Not like that. Are you gonna miss a turn? Do, do, do. Yeah.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 45:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. So that's the sobering, you know, and again, sobering but liberating, like.

• 45:24Speaker 01

  We are in our own way. What we want.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  We don't currently have because we don't have the capacity. For it yet. And that's a big thing. We remind our women in Muse is like, anything you want that you don't currently have, it's because you don't quite yet have the capacity for it. And that's okay. It can be built. It can be titrated. It can be widened, but you have to have the awareness first of, oh, I'm in the way. I'm in the way. And how do I get out of my own way?

• 45:49Speaker 00

  I think this was probably my favorite conversation so far. And I know the one tomorrow is just really, really, really bringing it home. If this conversation brought something up for you, if you felt a lump in your throat, a sting behind your eyes, or that quiet knowing in your gut, you are not alone. You are so wildly not alone. And you don't have to keep holding this all by yourself. That is exactly why we created Soft Success, a 60-minute masterclass for high achieving women who are really ready to stop over giving, over performing, and over functioning their way through life and relationships. We are going to be walking you through rebuilding your relationship with success, your body and your truth, so that being met by others doesn't feel like a fantasy, but a natural result of how deeply you're now willing to meet yourself.

• 46:32Speaker 00

  If this episode really resonated, the masterclass is your best next step. You can save your seat right now at bossbabe.com/softsuccess. You have spent long enough contorting yourself to fit into spaces that were never built to see you fully. Come join us. We are building something vastly different and we would love to see you there.

• 46:59Speaker 00

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• 47:40Speaker 00

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