Pod Insights The Binge Crimes Crime Scene: The Sugar Land Murders — When Kids Kill About this episode On the night a Texas family gathers to celebrate their son’s college “graduation,” the party ends in a staged ambush that leaves two of them dead and the survivors bleeding on the floor. As detectives begin pulling at the loose threads, the case becomes a brutal test of one father’s faith—forcing him to decide whether he can forgive the man who tried to have him killed.
Follow Crime Scene wherever you listen to get new episodes every week between our monthly drops.
Listen ad-free and unlock 60+ true crime series with The Binge+: Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Patreon, or at GetTheBinge.com
Watch on YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@TheBingeTrueCrime
Get our free true-crime newsletter: Patreon.com/TheBinge
Follow Crime Scene:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebingecrimescene/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebingecrimescene
Learn more about your ad choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Transcript 0:00 Speaker 00 Hi y'all. Jonathan Hirsch here, executive producer of The Binge. And while you're waiting for the next series to come out here on The Binge, I wanted to share with you an episode from our new weekly series, Crime Scene. It's hosted by myself and Cooper Mall, who you may remember from The Crimes of Margot Freshwater and Fatal Beauty. And each week, Cooper and I are stepping into the Crime Scene office, and we are breaking down a different case. So I'm just gonna pop an episode of that series into your feed here. It's called The Sugarland Murders, and I think you're gonna like it. It has a lot of the same themes that you heard in Fatal Fantasy. I don't want
0:45 Speaker 00 to give too much away, but take a listen. And if you enjoy the series, you can find us on Apple, on Spotify, or on YouTube. Just search for The Binge Crime Scene. And here it is, The Sugarland Murders.
1:02 Speaker 00 Could you forgive a killer for taking the life of someone you loved? What if that killer was also someone you loved? In 2003, a family in Sugarland, Texas, was torn apart by a gruesome crime, a crime that left everyone on the scene with blood on their hands. Welcome to Crime Scene, the show where we tell the stories behind the world's most unforgettable crimes. A family gathering turned sinister. One December night in a wealthy suburb of Houston, Kent and Tricia Whittaker sit across from their sons, Bart and Kevin, surrounded by daiquiris, seafood platters, and a congratulations cake and chocolate frosting.
1:44 Speaker 00 But one of the members of this family didn't think of this meal as a celebration, more like a last supper. Today, we're bringing you the story of a family that was torn apart by a gruesome crime and an even worse secret. But it's also about the lengths that we go to hide things from the ones that we love. And when the truth is revealed in this case, it's more surprising than even the crime itself. From Sony Podcasts and The Binge, this is the story of the Sugarland Murders.
2:19 Speaker 00 Hey y'all. Welcome to The Crime Scene Office. My name's Jonathan Hirsch. I'm a cult survivor turned documentarian, covering cults, crimes, and cons.
2:27 Speaker 01 And I'm Cooper Mall, a library intern podcaster obsessed with all things true crime.
2:33 Speaker 00 And together each week, we're going to bring you some of our favorite stories, the ones that have stuck with us. And we're going to dig into the case, both the criminal and legal aspects of it, but also all of the characters involved in the story, you know, the world that they inhabit. This series is part of The Binge, which is Sony's true crime podcast network. You'll probably hear me on it from time to time. You'll also hear Cooper. And, you know, you can think about this as all the things that you love from the limited series that we make, but in one episode.
3:07 Speaker 01 Well, what do you got for us today, Jonathan?
3:08 Speaker 00 We've talked about this case a little bit before. It's different than every crime story I've looked into for this one particular reason. It almost feels like a moral tale, if that makes sense. It's like a fable. You end up asking yourself some very serious questions about what you would do if you were in the situation.
3:27 Speaker 01 I love any story that makes me do that.
3:29 Speaker 00 Yes. And I think by the end of this, it'll be interesting to hear how you feel, like what you would do in the situation, and what all of you would do as well. So.
3:40 Speaker 01 Let's go for it.
3:43 Speaker 00 Coming up after the break, the story of the Shuggerlin murders.
3:57 Speaker 00 So our story starts with the Whitakers. They're this upstanding, church-going family. They live in a brick house. They have community ties that run super deep. And they have these two boys that are on their way to adulthood.
4:09 Speaker 01 They're like a sitcom family.
4:11 Speaker 00 Yeah. Kent is this successful professional, and Trisha is a devoted mother. Yeah, they sort of sound like cookie cutter in a way. It's much more complicated than that, but.
4:21 Speaker 01 It always is.
4:21 Speaker 00 Always is. And on the surface, though, you see this wonderful family. They have a likable, younger son, Kevin, and then Bart, who's a little bit older, is on the verge of graduating from college and moving into adulthood. There in their church and their community, Kent is this sort of fixture. He's known to be gentle, full of faith. He talks oftentimes about forgiveness. He says that like when terrible things happen, people would come to him and ask for his advice. And he would often tell them about the values of trust, trust in God and having faith to get through the worst of times. And then what happens to him has to be something that would test even the most faithful of people.
5:05 Speaker 00 Ken actually wrote a book about this and he, he talks in like very philosophical terms about what had happened to him. And, you know, he talks about how everything that he went on in his life, um, sort of brought prayer, forgiveness and faith, um, and the winding roads of his life together and into the light, but not before experiencing considerable darkness along the way.
5:31 Speaker 01 To me, it's almost as if it's like, everything that he's practiced and preached is now going to be tested.
5:37 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's like that point I was making earlier about this kind of being like a moral tale. There's an element to the story where because of Kent's voice and his perspective, it just has this very strong, um, philosophical bent. It almost blurs the lines between what happened and how he feels. At least when you read his book, it's really quite remarkable in that way. Okay, so this case begins in December of 2003. Bart, the oldest boy, has just told his parents that he finished his college exams and is finally graduating from Sam Houston University.
6:11 Speaker 01 And if anyone thinks it's weird to graduate in December, it's not. I graduated in December, actually.
6:16 Speaker 00 Did you really?
6:17 Speaker 01 Yes.
6:17 Speaker 00 Okay.
6:17 Speaker 01 It's not always in the summer.
6:18 Speaker 00 Yeah. And so he's very excited. His family is also very excited because they weren't ever sure if this would happen. He had had some ups and downs, so they quickly arranged a celebration that night, um, at Papa Doe, which is like the seafood chain restaurant in South Texas. They bought him a Rolex watch.
6:38 Speaker 01 Dang.
6:38 Speaker 00 And a cake to mark the milestone. So this was like a fun event for everybody around.
6:43 Speaker 01 And it must've been a hu- huge deal for them. That's like. Big, that's a big gift.
6:48 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, they're definitely a well-to-do family, but a Rolex is a Rolex, whoever's paying for it. So at the restaurant, Kevin is joking around. Tricia is said to have been beaming Kent relaxes for the first time in a long time because they had had some rocky years. And look, I totally get that, like, as the dad of two boys, like, if one of your, your oldest son is about to graduate from college, like, you're like, oh, thank God, okay, we made it through.
7:18 Speaker 01 I was definitely the kid in my family of like, is this gonna happen?
7:22 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah.
7:24 Speaker 01 Is she ever really gonna get it there? But we, yeah, we did it.
7:27 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah.
7:28 Speaker 01 It was a big deal.
7:28 Speaker 00 You can imagine that sense of relief and comfort that the family felt now, like hindsight, of course, right?
7:34 Speaker 01 Yeah, absolutely.
7:35 Speaker 00 So they pose with the cake, they smile, Bart gets the Rolex, they talk about the future. But what they don't really know is that the future is very short. So the family goes home. And this is like any other night, they walk up to the front door, there's no outside signs of danger anywhere. Tricia, the mom, walks up to the front door first, she's sort of leading the pack. She opens the door, and when she opens it, she's confronted by a masked man.
8:04 Speaker 01 Nightmare.
8:07 Speaker 00 Fires a round straight into her and she falls back. And then this individual proceeds to fire a single round into every one of the widowers that are there on the porch. And all of a sudden, in a matter of seconds, the entire family is mowed down and lying in a pool of blood.
8:27 Speaker 01 Yeah, what a turn.
8:29 Speaker 00 It is shocking and terrifying.
8:34 Speaker 00 The shooter runs from the house directly after doing this, out the backyard, jumps over the fence, and disappears with a getaway driver into the night. But not everybody is dead from this attack. Kent is roughly still aware, he sort of raises his head, he sees his wife's blonde hair on the floor, and he also hears her coughing, sort of a wet cough. So he knows that her lungs are filling with blood, so she probably doesn't have a lot of time left. The neighbor heard the shots, rushes over and calls 911. The paramedics arrive. Kevin's dead on the scene.
9:19 Speaker 02 911. Someone has just shot another. Who's been shot? Uh, Teresa and Kent. Who shot them? Uh, we don't know. Someone in the mask. What kind of injuries do they have? I don't know. They've just been shot. Hang on just a second. We've got them calling on another line.
9:35 Speaker 02 Sherwin 911, say emergency.
9:36 Speaker 03 Yeah, I've been shot.
9:38 Speaker 02 Who's been shot?
9:39 Speaker 03 Uh, it's my mom and my dad and my brother.
9:41 Speaker 02 Hold on one second, sir. Engine one, all we have, one subject right now. Apparently, the whole family's been shot. Stand by. Is this Teresa or Kent?
9:50 Speaker 03 It's Bart, the son.
9:51 Speaker 02 Okay, Bart, where is your wound?
9:53 Speaker 03 In the arm, my shoulder. I think, I can't move my arm.
9:56 Speaker 02 Okay, who else has been shot in the house with you?
9:59 Speaker 03 Uh, I can't see.
10:01 Speaker 02 Who else was in the house with you?
10:03 Speaker 03 We were walking in the house. My brother and my mom and my dad. Oh, God, I can't.
10:08 Speaker 02 I need you to hang on, Bart. I've got help on the way, okay? Do you know who shot you?
10:12 Speaker 03 No.
10:13 Speaker 02 Okay, your neighbors were telling me that he had a mask on. Is that true?
10:16 Speaker 03 No, I think it's dark in here.
10:19 Speaker 02 Okay, do you think he was burglarizing your home? Or are you guys having problems with somebody?
10:24 Speaker 03 Oh, God, I don't know. I can't move.
10:28 Speaker 02 How many shots did he fire, Bart?
10:30 Speaker 03 I don't know.
10:31 Speaker 02 Can you tell me anything about him at all? Did he sound black, white, Hispanic, Middle Eastern?
10:36 Speaker 03 Maybe black. I don't know. I couldn't, uh.
10:39 Speaker 02 Okay, when he left, Bart, did he leave out your back door?
10:41 Speaker 03 Yeah, I chased him that way.
10:43 Speaker 02 He let you chase him out towards the back door?
10:45 Speaker 03 Yeah.
10:46 Speaker 02 Okay, Bart, where were you when he shot you?
10:48 Speaker 03 Uh, in the living room. Oh.
10:50 Speaker 02 Slow down, okay? They're on the way. Where are you in the house right now?
10:54 Speaker 03 I'm in the living room.
10:55 Speaker 02 You're in the living room?
10:56 Speaker 03 I'm on the floor. Oh, I'm going up here.
10:59 Speaker 02 Okay, do you see the officers, Bart?
11:01 Speaker 03 Yeah.
11:01 Speaker 02 Okay, that's the officers coming in. I'm gonna go ahead and disconnect with you, okay?
11:05 Speaker 03 Okay.
11:05 Speaker 02 Thank you.
11:07 Speaker 00 The mom dies at the hospital and Kent and Bart are medevac'd to the hospital and brought into surgery, emergency surgery.
11:17 Speaker 01 That flight there must have been surreal.
11:20 Speaker 00 It is. He talks about it. He's like having this... Wild moment of recollection of what had happened over the course of, not like his life was flashing before his eyes, but he was remembering like these times that he had spent with his family, when they had gone on this river rafting trip in Colorado.
11:39 Speaker 01 Like a supercut of memories.
11:41 Speaker 00 A supercut of memories is a perfect way to describe it. It's almost like cinematic, the way he's like recalling his own life and you just, you feel for him in that moment. He has no idea what's going on. Yeah, and he starts praying and he says, "Father, you know, if it's my time to die, I'm ready. It's okay, but protect my family."
12:04 Speaker 01 Yeah, because even though Kent and Bart are still alive, they're not totally in the clear, right?
12:09 Speaker 00 Yeah, and he's not in this moment, understanding necessarily what is going on. But by the end of the night, the dust settles a bit and what's clear is that two members of the Whittaker family are dead. Two of them are alive and there's no clear explanation for why their family would have been massacred.
12:29 Speaker 01 Yeah, like make it make sense.
12:31 Speaker 00 So the lead investigator, Marshall Slot, said that that night, "When we got home from the church, we got the call of the quadruple shooting." And that just doesn't happen here in Sugarland.
12:43 Speaker 01 I don't even think I've heard the term quadruple shooting before.
12:46 Speaker 00 Yeah, that's a first for me, too.
12:47 Speaker 01 So in the initial investigation, what kind of questions are they asking? Like this, what was the motive of these shooters? Were they trying to take stuff?
12:54 Speaker 00 There's a lot to sort of sort through in something like this because there's the shooting, there's an active crime scene, and then there was what appeared to be a robbery. But when they start to look into it, that doesn't really make sense, right? Like, the valuables weren't touched, so the place doesn't look ransacked.
13:13 Speaker 01 It looks staged.
13:14 Speaker 00 It looks like it could have been staged and the investigator sort of even alludes to that. He said, "In the master bedroom, the drawers, an armoire, all the drawers had been open, but they were all sort of like at an equal distance."
13:27 Speaker 01 Weird.
13:28 Speaker 00 Like he had pulled them out together, like one after the other, like it was part of the job.
13:32 Speaker 01 So it looks like a set.
13:33 Speaker 00 Yeah, like it was part of the job. He had to do each one. "None of the items of value inside the house had moved around," he said. "The electronics, the laptop, the jewelry, none of those items that are typically taken from a burglary."
13:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:45 Speaker 00 Were taken.
13:46 Speaker 01 Given that they, you know, got Bart a Rolex, they probably had some really nice stuff in there.
13:50 Speaker 00 Yeah, and, and they did. I mean, it was a nice house and a nice neighborhood, a place where things like this don't happen to a family where you don't expect something like this to happen. I mean, people's heads were spinning.
14:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, I bet.
14:03 Speaker 00 So if the shooter wasn't a robber, then what on earth did this man have against the family? That's sort of your next line of thinking, right?
14:11 Speaker 01 Yeah, and like, given what you've told me, they're this like upstanding Christian family, they don't necessarily seem like the type who are like in bed with criminals or having affairs or anything like that. I mean, what if they find out?
14:22 Speaker 00 It can't possibly be personal, right? I mean, that is something they need to look into. You never know. You just never know who might see you as a target as sort of one of the morals of this story, I guess. But by all accounts, as they start to ask around, they're not seeing these people sort of in bed with criminals, having affairs, or, you know, stepping out or betraying each other in ways that would be super evident or would be like the foundation of a motive. So I guess at first, like, the investigators are kind of at a loss.
14:54 Speaker 01 Yeah, they don't have a lot to go off of.
14:55 Speaker 00 Yeah.
14:56 Speaker 04 It seemed like every piece of evidence that we collected, we ran into dead ends left and right.
15:03 Speaker 01 So this all happened really fast. So to catch everybody up, this night began as a celebration for Bart's graduation and ended in bloodshed. The entire Whitaker family, gunned down. Two of them have survived, Kent and Bart. So what's up with them right now?
15:19 Speaker 00 So they're in the hospital. They're both going into surgery. Kent is barely holding on physically and emotionally. He's lost his wife, he's lost his youngest son, and his older son is wounded and in a hospital bed just down the way from him at the same hospital. And as a man of faith, you know, he like searches for meaning, you know, he's like telling himself, God must have left Bart alive for a reason. Maybe to rebuild, maybe to carry on the family in a way that he couldn't quite understand at the moment. So he started, his like head's starting to spin about trying
15:58 Speaker 00 to figure out how to make sense of what has happened to them without yet understanding or contemplating who precisely would have done this.
16:08 Speaker 01 You know, I'm not really a religious person, but something I've always really envied about people with faith is that in these moments that just feel so dark and heavy, that they have this sort of groundedness or this thing to kind of hold on to.
16:22 Speaker 00 Right. Yeah, like the impossible can happen to you and you can find a way to make it make sense. Honestly, if you were to just imagine the impossible happening to you and your family, this seems like the thing that would be impossible.
16:37 Speaker 01 Oh, this would be my undoing.
16:39 Speaker 00 Yeah, me too. Me too. I can't imagine what I would do in this situation or how I would even start to make, try to make sense of it. It's really a remarkable kind of moral fortitude, you know, that Kent has in that moment. Okay, so the investigators are beginning to look into this. They're contacting all of the different people associated with the family. They contact the college where Bart was just graduating and they discover something interesting. This is the first wrinkle. Bart hadn't been a student at Sam Houston University for years.
17:14 Speaker 01 So the whole party was just a sham.
17:16 Speaker 00 It was entirely a pretense, you know, he's on academic probation since his freshman year and didn't complete the credits needed to graduate.
17:28 Speaker 01 So when the cops find this out.
17:29 Speaker 00 Yeah.
17:30 Speaker 01 Did they tell Kent?
17:31 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, that's what they do. They go straight to Kent. They tell him what happened and he's stunned and terrified and not just that his son lied about this so completely, but that now the cops would be focusing on Bart instead of whoever really killed his family. You know, he says, what were you thinking? Like you lied to us about being in school? You weren't even near graduating. How could you have done that? And in retrospect, he said, like, I must have been an idiot. How could I possibly have not seen this? But the truth is, we didn't know that there were lies.
18:12 Speaker 01 Well, yeah, and I think parents see their kids in a certain way that it's almost incomprehensible that they'd be capable of doing something like this. I mean, I'll tell you, I mean, I lied to my own parents about being enrolled in college when I wasn't.
18:25 Speaker 00 Really?
18:26 Speaker 01 And it's one of those things where it was like, I thought I would re-enroll and get some credits and then the lie just kind of spiraled out of control.
18:35 Speaker 00 So you just didn't tell them and like hoped that you would kind of figure it out? Is that what the?
18:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, and then two years went by of, you know, I'm in college where I was not and I had a moment where I had to come clean to them. But these are these moments where like these little tiny things that you think you're just gonna get a hold of, the lies just buying you a little bit of time can really spiral out of control and I can, I can understand that and you don't really know how to get back on track.
19:00 Speaker 00 Yeah, see what I mean about the moral tale? Like, you can actually see it from different perspectives, too. Like, I can imagine the things that I kept from my parents as a young person, the things that I didn't feel like they would approve of or appreciate. Like, you can both see how somebody would keep a lie like that and it would get worse and worse and in your case, too, like, kind of like snowball. And then, as a parent, I can imagine Kent looking at that situation and removing the possibility that his son had anything to do with this from his mind, leaving it sort of in the furthest corner because he would never want to imagine that his son had something to do with what had just happened.
19:43 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, our minds protect us from those types of thoughts.
19:46 Speaker 00 They really do. And what would you do in that situation differently than to think?
19:53 Speaker 00 This couldn't possibly be my son.
19:55 Speaker 01 Yeah.
19:55 Speaker 00 In fact, it's getting in the way.
19:56 Speaker 01 Yeah, and there's like.
19:57 Speaker 00 Investigation.
19:58 Speaker 01 What the correlation between, oh, because you lied about college, you've done something else terrible.
20:03 Speaker 00 Yeah.
20:03 Speaker 01 Is a little bit of a stretch.
20:04 Speaker 00 Yeah, but from a homicide detective's perspective, they're looking at this family that's cookie cutter. Everything's perfect.
20:10 Speaker 01 And he's the fly in the ointment, sort of thing.
20:12 Speaker 00 Exactly. So Kent wheels himself to Bart's hospital bed after he finds out what happens, right? And confronts him about the college lie. Worried that it's going to derail this investigation. Bart apologizes profusely. He says, the work got so demanding. He was under so much pressure. He always intended to go back, but just could never really quite get it together. He didn't want to disappoint his parents. So all the things that we were just talking about, right? Like, he didn't want to be in that situation.
20:42 Speaker 01 Yeah, there's a lot of shame there.
20:43 Speaker 00 Right. So, yeah, Kent gets it, right? Like Bart was afraid of failing and didn't want to accept it. And didn't want to come forward with the truth. So as they're recovering from their surgeries, the father and son attend a joint funeral for Kent's wife, Bart's mom, his brother, their son. In the same church where Kevin's high school graduation had been celebrated not that long ago.
21:14 Speaker 01 I'm sure that's like another supercut in his head comes in, I'm sure.
21:17 Speaker 00 Exactly, and he describes it. He's sort of having these flashback moments where he's like remembering the good times, right? While also having to very much be in this moment. Like, I would have fully disassociated if I were him. Yeah, it must have been a surreal experience to have to bury your family like that and then try to move on.
21:40 Speaker 01 They're trying to move on, whatever that means in this situation. What's going on with the case?
21:45 Speaker 00 Well, the case is, as far as Kent is concerned at this point, a little bit stalled out. They want answers about what had happened and there does seem to be some questions about Bart and his involvement. But Kent also describes, there were some open theories there that he felt weren't being explored. So he had questions at first about the Sugarland Police Department's investigation. So for example, the night before the shooting, um, his youngest boy, Kevin, had this friend, a girl, who had come over near the house, like in her truck, and they had sat in the
22:29 Speaker 00 car together and she had sort of confessed her feelings for Kevin, which Kevin did not reciprocate. And she was pretty upset about all of that, on top of the fact that she had a boyfriend at the time. So there was like a messy relationship situation that had happened just the night before.
22:49 Speaker 01 I think we've all been rejected, right? Like, or at least I'm speaking for myself.
22:52 Speaker 00 Oh, no, no, no, that's fair.
22:53 Speaker 01 But being denied, you know, a date or, you know, I don't love you anymore, doesn't, and a young girl to me doesn't like track that she's then in 24 hours gonna go execute Kevin's whole family just because he doesn't want to date her.
23:06 Speaker 00 Yeah, no, I mean, and there were some questions, maybe the boyfriend of this girl might have had something to do with it. And then the second sort of question mark is, she shows up at the scene the next night.
23:18 Speaker 01 No, that's a bad look.
23:19 Speaker 00 Without a car. So nobody really knew how she got there. So that was like one of the theories, but again, so circumstantial. It's just sort of like the kind of thing I can imagine in his shoes, you're thinking about and playing over in your mind when you're trying to find answers.
23:35 Speaker 01 Well, and you're probably grasping for anything to not make you think that. It could have been your kid.
23:41 Speaker 00 Right, exactly. He's looking for any answer. And apparently, there had been a shooting that had happened not far from their house that night. And there were some questions about whether or not this could be connected to that shooting. They were just trying to find answers. And I think he felt at first like maybe they were just too focused on Bart and not on what some of the other possibilities were.
24:06 Speaker 01 You didn't want him to be like, fall victim to any kind of tunnel vision.
24:09 Speaker 00 Yeah, and victims' families go through, have to endure this kind of uncertainty during a homicide investigation because, you know, detectives can only tell the families so much. But then like, if there are gaps in what appear to be the way that the investigation is being pushed forward,
24:33 Speaker 00 like, the stakes couldn't be higher for a family. Like, wouldn't they want to actually get in the mix there and try to, you know, try to find answers? I can understand how frustrating that must have been.
24:44 Speaker 01 So none of these theories are sticking. All they really have to go off of is the Bart lie.
24:49 Speaker 00 Right.
24:50 Speaker 01 And I'm sure they're imagining if he's capable about lying about not graduating and being enrolled in school all this time, what else is he capable of lying about?
24:59 Speaker 00 Right, exactly. They're starting to look into that piece of it. And shortly afterward, they do get a tip, the police do, from a former roommate of Bart, Adam Hip. He walks into the police station and reports that Bart had tried to recruit him to help kill his family.
25:17 Speaker 01 All right.
25:17 Speaker 00 Yep, we're there. Two years ago. So police detectives are definitely having some of their initial thoughts confirmed here about Bart's involvement in the shootings.
25:36 Speaker 00 He claimed that he'd briefly roomed with Bart at school and that Bart had made mention of having his family murdered all the way back in 2001.
25:45 Speaker 01 And what was in it for them?
25:48 Speaker 00 The motive? I mean, the motive was that he expected to inherit a significant amount of money, roughly a million dollars. So HIP states that Bart even offered him a cut of the money. You know, like this was a deal that they'd put together. He says, you know, I didn't know, I'm not proud of it, but for the simple fact that I was kind of interested to see how far he would take it.
26:13 Speaker 01 That's honest.
26:14 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, that's a dangerous game of chicken you're playing there, my friend. But certainly you can imagine somebody approaches you with information like that. It's also kind of dangerous. Like, do you say no to this person? Are they gonna hurt you?
26:30 Speaker 01 Exactly. I mean, you're realizing that your roommate is very, you know, not who you probably imagined he was, right?
26:36 Speaker 00 You've been unwittingly like roped into a criminal conspiracy at that point. So what do you say?
26:41 Speaker 01 Yeah, I don't know.
26:43 Speaker 00 The plan fell apart, though, because another friend of theirs had heard about this plot and had like warned Bart's parents. Yeah.
26:51 Speaker 01 So they, they had some inkling that he was, you know, having, maybe these are intrusive thoughts or something's going on with him where he's capable of at least thinking about these things.
27:01 Speaker 00 Ideating on the possibility. And I think Kent had dismissed some of those earlier situations as just.
27:08 Speaker 01 Teenage angst.
27:09 Speaker 00 Yeah, exactly. He didn't really connect the dots until much later, obviously.
27:15 Speaker 01 Well, the penny is definitely dropping now.
27:17 Speaker 00 Okay, so detectives are digging into Bart's old roommate, Adam, and what he reported. And as they were doing that, they discovered this was not just like a one-off comment, but a pattern of behavior. He had reached out to other roommates as early as December of 2000 to try to orchestrate some kind of ambush plot inside of the house, similar to the one that happened that was successful, except in this case, the home alarm went off when they were inside the house. And when the relatives approached.
27:54 Speaker 00 They didn't enter the house.
27:56 Speaker 01 So there's a version of this where it could have happened years before it did.
27:59 Speaker 00 Exactly. Yeah. And I mean, it's so clear that this person had been planning this as they start to unravel and hear from different people. He was planning this for a long, a long time.
28:12 Speaker 01 You know what I can't help to think about is like, how do you even tee this conversation up amongst friends? Like, hey, guys, we stand to make some serious money here.
28:23 Speaker 00 Quick question for you.
28:23 Speaker 01 Yeah, but it requires killing my whole family. I mean,
28:27 Speaker 00 Yeah.
28:28 Speaker 01 How, how do you even begin?
28:29 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's unfathomable, but it's definitely premeditated, you know, and you think about like how cases are adjudicated, right? Like, did a person commit a murder, first degree, second degree, third degree? Was it premeditated? Was there a plan? Was it willful? This has to be the most willful plan I've ever heard of in a murder case.
28:53 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, Bart is not a survivor here. He's the mastermind.
28:57 Speaker 00 Yeah, and it was long in the works. It just fits and starts before he found the right way to do it.
29:03 Speaker 01 So crazy. So, I mean, the first couple of guys he approached about this, you know, weren't necessarily game, or some of them were, but it didn't work out.
29:13 Speaker 00 Yeah.
29:14 Speaker 01 How did he pull it off this time?
29:16 Speaker 00 So he had two friends who were willing to go along with him in this plan, Chris Breschier and Stephen Champagne. Chris told the cops that Bart had wanted to make it look like a robbery. He asked them to shoot each of his relatives and him.
29:32 Speaker 01 So Chris was the shooter.
29:33 Speaker 00 Yeah.
29:33 Speaker 01 And the other guy, Steve, I'm assuming was the getaway driver. Did they talk to him too?
29:37 Speaker 00 He did. And after the cops questioned him, Steve led them actually to a bag that had been dumped at a local lake, Lake Conroe, and it contained tools that they were able to verify as being tied to the crime.
29:50 Speaker 01 Chris and Steve essentially are confirming this was a conspiracy.
29:53 Speaker 00 Yeah, that they had acted together as Bart's accomplices. So the shooter and the getaway driver are arrested.
30:02 Speaker 05 Did you see them leave Pomodoro?
30:04 Speaker 06 Well, yeah. So then I pretty much followed them home. They pulled in the driveway. I just kept going, just around the block, behind, like one block over. And then then a minute, Chris came walking like out to the car and got in the backseat. He said that Bart's brother had walked in first and then Chris shot him. He said before he shot him, he thought he smiled.
30:31 Speaker 06 And then Chris shot his mom and then shot Bart's dad in the shoulder.
30:37 Speaker 01 So at this point, I'm assuming investigators are seeing the years-long, you know, solicitation.
30:44 Speaker 00 Yeah.
30:44 Speaker 01 The graduation lie and the successful December ambush in 2003 as one continuous murder plot.
30:51 Speaker 00 Yeah, and meanwhile, while all of this is sort of being sorted out by investigators, six months after the murder, the father and son are trying to have some kind of a normal life.
31:05 Speaker 01 Yeah, I don't really know how anything goes back to normal after that, but.
31:08 Speaker 00 Right, but they're still sort of in their minds in this kind of grieving process, right? He doesn't know much about what the cops are gathering in the case against Bart. And he doesn't really think that his son is a mastermind behind a criminal conspiracy to have his family slaughtered. It just doesn't even enter his consciousness that that would be what is going on. Then something does happen, though, that starts to open him up to the truth.
31:35 Speaker 01 Okay.
31:36 Speaker 00 So one night Bart is going out dancing with his girlfriend and he never comes home.
31:43 Speaker 01 So he just leaves his dad high and dry in their time of need.
31:47 Speaker 00 Mm hmm. Yeah, Kent wakes up in the morning and discovers that $7,000 in cash is missing along with his son. And he has no idea where he is.
31:58 Speaker 01 This is getting interesting.
32:00 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, that's when the tables kind of start to turn for him, right?
32:03 Speaker 01 Yeah, he's probably putting the pieces together here.
32:04 Speaker 00 Exactly. His son, who had troubles with the law in the past when he was younger, had had ups and downs along the way, had lied about graduating for college. Maybe he had something to do with this.
32:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, now he's missing, so cops are probably realizing they've got the right guy.
32:20 Speaker 00 Right, yeah, they just let this culprit slip through their fingers while they were developing the case, so the hunt is on.
32:28 Speaker 01 But when Bart disappeared, did he leave any sort of trace?
32:31 Speaker 00 He did. He abandoned his SUV at an airport parking lot, and he crossed into Mexico, disappeared into one of the small border towns.
32:39 Speaker 01 Classic.
32:40 Speaker 00 He uses his cash and goes by a different name. They don't know this at the time.
32:48 Speaker 07 Suralvo, Mexico. It's a world away from Sugar Land, Texas. And that's just fine with the American stranger who suddenly lands here looking for work and a new identity.
33:00 Speaker 00 Before he abandoned his dad, he had done some planning for this life.
33:03 Speaker 01 Well, he's good at that.
33:04 Speaker 00 He is. And that's how Bart became somebody new, who went by the name of Rudy Rios.
33:12 Speaker 01 How the hell did he get that name?
33:14 Speaker 00 He had basically convinced a friend of his to let him steal his identity for a price. It was a coworker. The coworker agreed. So he picks up work at a furniture shop and charms the neighbors with stories about being wounded in combat, which is how he explained his bullet wound.
33:33 Speaker 01 He's got a story for everything.
33:35 Speaker 07 He told me his name was Rudy. But their newfound friend is no Rudy at all. He's Bart Whitaker, prime suspect in the ambush of his entire family back in Texas.
33:49 Speaker 00 For nearly a year, he's living in this town. He's seen as this charismatic new American, and the Texas authorities are searching high and low for Bart Whitaker. So for nearly a year, he's living this life in a Mexican town. He's like the charismatic new American, and authorities are out there looking for Bart Whitaker.
34:19 Speaker 01 But he's Rudy Rios.
34:20 Speaker 00 Exactly.
34:21 Speaker 01 When do the cops eventually zero in on the guy?
34:24 Speaker 00 So the story does have an ending. They find him through the help of the guy who had originally let him borrow his name and identity, Rudy Rios. Yeah, he finds out about this warrant and the call for information that includes,
34:42 Speaker 00 Money, if anybody can help to, you know, advance the investigation, so.
34:48 Speaker 01 So Rudy cashed out twice off of Bart, but he advanced both the person being investigated
34:56 Speaker 00 Yeah.
34:56 Speaker 01 and the investigators investigating him.
34:59 Speaker 00 Yeah, so it's the first time I've ever heard of a criminal conspiracy to kill your entire family. It's also the first time I've heard of somebody double dipping in this way on the front and the back end of criminal conspiracy. He definitely is the one who probably made out the best out of this whole story.
35:18 Speaker 01 And he leaves him to Bart.
35:19 Speaker 00 He does, and so the Mexican officials work with US authorities to bring Bart back to Texas to face capital murder charges.
35:29 Speaker 01 And his dad.
35:30 Speaker 00 Yeah.
35:32 Speaker 00 Coming up, investigators dig for answers and devastating secrets surface.
35:47 Speaker 00 You know, it's sort of interesting to think about what was going on in Bart's mind at the time, because here's somebody who committed this heinous act, who in a way is running from the authorities because he feels like they're zeroing in. But it also feels in, in an odd way, and maybe I'm just too wrapped up in Kent's own version of the story, that he was running from his dad.
36:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, like he couldn't face him.
36:09 Speaker 00 His dad thoroughly believed that he wouldn't have been involved in this, believes in forgiveness, and Bart is.
36:16 Speaker 01 Living it with him every single day, probably think, look, every time he looks at him, he knows exactly what happened here.
36:23 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's almost like, I can't imagine living with that. It's almost worse than living with the realities of what happened to you, is living with that kind of a lie.
36:31 Speaker 01 But he has no choice now because he's arriving back to Texas in shackles.
36:35 Speaker 00 He's the mastermind of a massacre, and he's going to have to face justice. He's also, as you said, going to have to face his dad. So Bart is brought back to speak with his father, and he tells him, I accept full responsibility. This is all my fault. I did this from beginning to end. And this is where sort of it drives at the heart of this being kind of a moral tale. Kent does something that I still can't imagine having the ability to do myself, which is he forgives Bart for what happened.
37:14 Speaker 01 I can't say I'm surprised by that based off what you've already told me about Kent. But what I can say is, I don't think I could do that.
37:22 Speaker 00 Yeah, I don't know if I could do it either. So he said, like, that first night in the hospital, I forgave everyone who was involved in this. It is a gift of God that allows me to do this. I think he gave me the gift so that when I found out that it was my son, it would be a legitimate forgiveness. Almost like God was sort of priming him to forgive his son for something that would be unforgivable.
37:49 Speaker 03 That night, God met me at my, in a hospital bed as I was wrestling with my faith, wondering why this had happened. He led me to a choice where I asked him to help me forgive the person, whoever it was.
38:05 Speaker 00 You know, Cooper, when we've been talking about this case, I keep thinking back about my favorite novel when I was a teenager, which probably says a lot about me. It's Crime and Punishment.
38:14 Speaker 01 Yeah, it totally tracks.
38:15 Speaker 00 Yeah, dark Russian novel about murder and crime. Anyway, for those who haven't read it before, the main character is this guy, Raskolnikov. He's this poor student at a university in St. Petersburg. And he develops this theory that superior individuals can transcend moral laws. If the person deserves it, basically, you can kill someone without feeling guilt or regret. You can kind of sit above morality. And he commits the crime of murder, but then is consumed with guilt and regret and can't really transcend the human emotion that is associated with taking the life of another person.
38:57 Speaker 00 And in a way, I kind of feel like this story is the reverse of Crime and Punishment, because it tells the story of someone who can forgive a willful, planned...
39:11 Speaker 00 Act of murder. And that's Kent, of course. And it just makes you think, because I don't know if I would be able to see past that. But it's very clear to Kent what his moral purpose is after he finds out that his son did this.
39:29 Speaker 01 Yeah, and I think when it's your own family, it really complicates it, right?
39:33 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, you got skin in the game. Like, there's a little bit of a bias when it's your kid.
39:39 Speaker 01 Definitely.
39:40 Speaker 00 But I think what's sort of interesting, what kind of comes next for Kent is he understands the consequences that are at play. But what he doesn't feel the state should make a determination about is the life of Bart. So he believes his son should accept responsibility and serve the appropriate prison sentence for that crime. But he doesn't believe that his son should be put to death.
40:11 Speaker 01 But this is Texas.
40:12 Speaker 00 This is totally not the kind of place where you want to test that law.
40:16 Speaker 01 So in a way, Kent's like new mission here has become twofold. Like, he has to accept his son is guilty, but also fight to keep him alive.
40:28 Speaker 00 Coming up, a capital murder trial and a shocking decision.
40:44 Speaker 01 So for everyone following, this is where everything is coming home, both literally and figuratively.
40:49 Speaker 00 Right.
40:50 Speaker 01 Bart has been brought back to Texas, and suddenly the story is not about him like running or being a fugitive anymore. It's a reckoning, essentially. He's here to face what he did, his dad.
41:05 Speaker 01 And the state.
41:05 Speaker 00 Right, yeah. And so we're in like 2007 at this point, a few years after the crime. Bart goes on trial for capital murder in Fort Ben County. Chris and Steve, his accomplices, are also charged with their charge separately. So prosecutors lay out the full arc in the criminal trial, right? Like the years of recruitment attempts, the faked graduation, the staged burglary, the coordinated shooting, and of course, the oddest gap year in history, Bart's flight to Mexico under an alias.
41:35 Speaker 01 Not a lot of reasonable doubt here.
41:37 Speaker 00 Yeah, and this case is fascinating to sort of walk through the trial and everything leading up to it. The prosecutor, Fred Felkman, he said during the trial, there's this term they use in psycholingo, psychobabble of sociopath. In other words, a person who knows he's doing something wrong but doesn't really care. The old time Texas thing was, he's a mean old son of a bitch, okay? They knew what they were getting into and they weren't about to mince words, regardless of the sort of nuanced moral territory that Kent was trafficking in.
42:15 Speaker 01 Yeah, just because these certain principles apply to the church, they definitely don't apply to the court.
42:22 Speaker 00 Exactly. And this other prosecutor was sort of saying like, this is an act of betrayal. This is, it doesn't get any worse than this. The law has to be commensurate with the crime.
42:33 Speaker 01 Yeah, and I, you know, while I have a certain amount of respect for Ken's forgiveness and attitude through this, like, he's gotta know that a conviction at this level, like, is straight to the death penalty in Texas.
42:47 Speaker 00 Yeah, and I mean, he's up against a governor who historically has not been particularly keen on commuting these kinds of sentences. So after six days of testimony in the trial, including evidence from Steve, the physical items that were recovered from Lake Conroe, the record of Bart's lies, the jury deliberates for just a few hours.
43:11 Speaker 01 Yeah, it does not surprise me at all.
43:13 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, they were, they knew what they were up against. So they find Bart guilty of capital murder.
43:20 Speaker 00 And during the penalty phase, Bart actually took the stand, which is really interesting. He said, I'm 100% guilty for this. I put the plan in motion. If I had not done so, it would not have happened. I mean, nothing more unequivocal than that.
43:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's a capital obvious statement.
43:41 Speaker 00 Right. And so maybe he had hoped that that would provide some degree of leniency in the sentence. The jury sentences him to death.
43:51 Speaker 01 So you'd mentioned that his accomplices, Chris and Steve, also had their own trials.
43:55 Speaker 00 They did. And, you know, Bart received the death sentence.
44:00 Speaker 00 The men who helped him, they get very different deals. You know, Chris was the masked gunman who actually shot the family. He pleads guilty and is sentenced to life in prison with no execution date. And then there's Steve, the getaway driver. He receives a 15-year sentence, which sort of gives him a chance to one day walk free from all of this.
44:21 Speaker 01 I mean, you can't really help but notice that, like, three young men, like, right at kind of the start of their life here.
44:27 Speaker 00 Yeah.
44:28 Speaker 01 Made awful decisions that took either their whole lives away or a lot of life away. I mean, it's awful.
44:35 Speaker 00 What a waste.
44:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:36 Speaker 00 You know, what a shame and what a waste. So Kent testifies in the trial, but he also speaks publicly after the verdict comes down to let people know that he had forgiven Bart for the shootings and that he was very much opposed to the death sentence ruling. And he was sort of saying that, like, he's the only surviving member of his family, and that would just multiply the loss.
45:06 Speaker 03 He's the last living member of my family. And if this execution proceeds, it's going to mean that the state of Texas is going to.
45:17 Speaker 03 Taking from us in a way that nobody wants.
45:20 Speaker 00 So on the one hand, the criminal justice system is there to sort of make sure that the punishment and the crime match each other, right? But we're also supposed to be doing this on behalf of the victims' families. And here's a very unique situation in which the victim.
45:37 Speaker 01 Is both a survivor and a loved one, yeah.
45:40 Speaker 00 A loved one and an advocate for the person on trial. So it puts the state and Kent in a tricky situation.
45:54 Speaker 01 Yeah, no kidding.
45:55 Speaker 00 He spends the next decade traveling around, writing, appealing to anyone, honestly, who will listen to him, that the state has to seek mercy for his son, not just vengeance.
46:14 Speaker 01 And this is the decade that would have been Kent's like empty nest, golden years with his wife, being spent advocating for his murderous son.
46:21 Speaker 00 The entire trajectory of his life becomes defined by this event. Appeal after appeal fails. And then finally, the time has come, right? Early 2018. Now, breaking tonight, we are less than one hour out from Bart Whitaker's scheduled execution. Whitaker will be put to death tonight at 6 o'clock for the murders of his mother and brother, unless Governor Greg Abbott decides to side with the state parole board's
46:49 Speaker 04 recommendation to spare Whitaker's life. Still no word from Governor Greg Abbott's office as to whether he will accept the parole board's recommendation. Prison officials say until they are absolutely certain, they have heard the final word from the governor's office or the Texas Attorney General's office as to whether there are any last minute appeals out there, they will not move.
47:09 Speaker 03 Forward with this execution, even though it is scheduled for 6:00 PM.
47:14 Speaker 00 Bart has an execution date, and the Texas governor Greg Abbott has never commuted a death sentence before.
47:24 Speaker 01 Yeah, why would Bart be any different?
47:26 Speaker 00 But in February 2018, the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles unanimously recommends commuting Bart's sentence to life without parole, citing, among other things, Kent's plea and the fact that the trigger man was not sentenced to death. So why would the leader in the conspiracy be?
47:49 Speaker 01 Hmm, okay. Kent must be so relieved.
47:53 Speaker 00 Well, the recommendations are only advisory, so the governor has to step in and say, hey, don't take this man's life. So the process carries on, right? The day of the execution arrives, Bart is moved to the death chamber, he's served his last meal, he's strapped onto the gurney, he says goodbye to Kent.
48:16 Speaker 01 The governor is like really making them sweat here.
48:18 Speaker 00 It's down to the wire. There's 40 minutes before the scheduled lethal injection when Kent receives a phone call. Abbott is granting clemency, commuting Bart's death sentence to life in prison without the possibility of parole in the first ever motion like that from the governor.
48:40 Speaker 05 This is, uh, this is Texas. This doesn't happen. And I'm just so encouraged that the system has worked. This was the right thing. This was the right thing to do. And
48:56 Speaker 05 I'm grateful to the Pardons and Parole Board for recognizing that there was truth here that was kind of hidden away through the legal process.
49:12 Speaker 00 And it's fascinating, right? Like, not everybody agrees with this.
49:16 Speaker 03 I'd like to see the execution go ahead. And that's saying a lot for someone who opposes the death penalty.
49:22 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, there's going to be strongly held opinions about this. So when Governor Greg Abbott stepped in to commute that sentence,
49:31 Speaker 03 Vasik says that concerned him. To then just toss that aside and say, even though the jury heard the evidence and said, this is what ought to happen, I don't know how it can not diminish the role of the jury.
49:45 Speaker 05 He hasn't gotten any trouble unfathomable that they're claiming that he can't change. If that were the case, then every religion on earth would be a waste of time.
49:58 Speaker 00 Yeah, I'm curious what all of y'all think when you hear this story. Like, do you believe that justice was served here? Would you have done the same thing as Kent? There's so many questions.
50:07 Speaker 01 Well, yeah, and this is a very hot topic of debate, the death penalty.
50:11 Speaker 00 Yes, so Bart leaves death row for this maximum security unit, and he begins to serve his life without parole. He starts to study, he's writing a lot, he continues to express remorse. He was a very messed up young man, he says, and deserves punishment.
50:29 Speaker 01 That's self-aware.
50:31 Speaker 03 When he told me that he had forgiven the shooter, I was shouting inside, well, what if that, what if that's my fault? And of course, I didn't have the courage to say anything at the time.
50:41 Speaker 00 Yeah, and Kent continues to visit his son and speak publicly about, you know, forgiveness and all of that. And he's, you know, says that like arguing for sparing Bart's life is a better reflection of his and Trisha's values than the execution ever would have been.
50:58 Speaker 01 Hmm, interesting point.
51:00 Speaker 00 So Kent goes on to write a book about this, which we've been talking about before, Murder by Family. It's an incredible read, and I would encourage all of y'all to take a look at it. Something that's sort of funny about Kent is like in the book, he's also weaving in all of these biblical stories and metaphors. And one of them that sort of stuck out to me that seemed to be like resonant for him was the story of Absalom. Absalom was the son of the king of David in the Bible, and he had apparently like organized a rebellion against his father, but he like failed and ultimately died.
51:40 Speaker 00 And in a way, Kent saw his son as this sort of rebellious figure who was like misguided in his rebellion. And so it just like reinforces as you're reading and hearing about this that Kent is kind of this armchair philosopher of his own life and, you know, quite thoughtful.
52:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, and able to make meaning from everything.
52:03 Speaker 00 And so like, looking at this story, you know, the last image of this is not the sort of cruel justice that comes with the lethal injection of Bart, but it's actually the story of a father and son finding a way to restore their own relationship and life while their son lives a life of repentance for what he had done.
52:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, you were not kidding about this one being a thinker.
52:35 Speaker 00 I mean, what would you do? Would you be able to forgive someone you loved? A sibling?
52:42 Speaker 01 I waver back and forth throughout this whole entire time, right?
52:45 Speaker 00 Yeah.
52:46 Speaker 01 I think the family piece really does complicate it for me.
52:49 Speaker 00 Right. It kind of reminds me of some of the cases where you see family inserting themselves. I mean, most recently, I think there were a lot of questions about Gabby Petito.
52:59 Speaker 01 Mm hmm.
53:00 Speaker 00 Just sort of came to mind and how the, you know, for those who aren't familiar, I think most of y'all who are listening to this probably know about the Gabby Petito case. A girl goes missing, her boyfriend ends up being sort of viewed as the potential assailant.
53:18 Speaker 01 And his parents come in and really protect him.
53:20 Speaker 00 Yeah, and then there's like sort of
53:22 Speaker 01 Not a good look.
53:23 Speaker 00 Evidence of them communicating with one another before, you know, she, you know, during the time that she disappears. And you have to imagine that, you know, the love for a child is so strong, love for your family is so strong that you would do anything to protect that, even if it goes against the grain of your own instincts. And in this case, I feel like Kent's love for his son is so strong that his own, that and his own moral sense sort of lifted him above the ideas of the sort of human world of crime and punishment.
54:08 Speaker 01 Thanks so much for joining us on Crime Scene. This show is a production of Sony Podcasts and The Binge. Thank you to everyone who makes this show happen each week. Also, we love journalism. These stories are deeply informed by the reporting that has brought these cases to light. We stand on the shoulders of giants. To learn more about our sourcing, check out the extensive bibliography listed in our show notes. Be sure to like, subscribe, and follow wherever you watch or listen. You can get exclusive content from us and over 50 jaw-dropping true crime series, ready to binge ad-free right now by subscribing to The Binge on Apple Podcasts or go to GetTheBinge.com to explore all the true crime stories included in your subscription.
54:52 Speaker 01 And now, before you leave us, Jonathan sat down with Lyndal Marks from Killer Story, our new series on The Binge, to talk about her career as a journalist and how she used one of the worst moments in her life to affect real change and to solve a crime. We're going to play a little sneak peek from that conversation here. You can hear the entire conversation by subscribing to The Binge on Apple Podcasts or Patreon, or go to GetTheBinge.com to access over 60 jaw-dropping true crime series ad-free right now.
55:24 Speaker 07 And I have to say that when I heard the podcast, when I listened to the podcast, and I heard my friend from university, Annie, describing what she saw, I've never spoken to her about it, and then you guys interviewed her and she described what happened when she walked into the room. I remember seeing her face and the sort of initial shock on her face when she saw me, but I, hearing the words come out of her mouth about how I was just swollen and bloodied and my eyes were like, black and blue, and that was, that was tough. That was tough to listen to.
56:05 Speaker 07 And that made me quite emotional, just to listen to that and actually to know that my girls were listening to that. So that was hard, but I'm grateful to be able to tell this story because I really want to empower other women not to fall into being a victim, that you can rise above it. And, you know, for me, the great pleasure is telling stories of other victims.
56:30 Speaker 00 Yeah.
56:31 Speaker 07 The reason I didn't come forward earlier to tell this story is because for me...
56:37 Speaker 07 You know, this was, this was a story. This was just a, you know, a story that I did at the time. But I very quietly, independently, without telling anybody at a current affair, without telling anybody that I was interviewing for the Sabrina story, that I had been a victim.
56:53 Speaker 00 Right.
56:54 Speaker 07 I never told anyone because I was doing my job as a journalist. But deep down, I knew that what was driving me to wanna tell her story was this pure instinct, this gut feeling.
57:06 Speaker 00 Right.
57:06 Speaker 07 Something has happened to her, something is wrong. And I, I beg other people to really trust yourself, advocate for those feelings you have. Because I had lawyers saying, don't you dare tell this story. You know, we'll get sued, um, which they would have if, if Preston hadn't been convicted.
57:28 Speaker 00 If you, if you didn't.
57:30 Speaker 07 Yeah, if I was wrong. And, you know, I had the lawyer saying to me, you better be right about your facts, little marks. And I'm like, yes, shit. It was scary, it was a scary time, but I just, Jonathan, I just felt deep inside, this is, something has happened to this girl.
57:48 Speaker 00 Yeah.
57:49 Speaker 07 Is it, is it a victim feeling for another victim? Is it just empathy? Is it wanting to find closure for other victims? Which in this case was the family, their victims. But I think you just developed this empathy as a victim that you can actually go on, rise above it, and do a lot of good and tell those stories.
Previous Fatal Fantasy | 6. Monster Next Introducing . . . CUT, COLOR, KILL. Page updated October 30, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated