The Poet | 2. Where’s Ruth?

Ruth is snatched off the street by two men in a beat up Chevy. That kidnapping rockets a somewhat lower priority stalking case right to the top of the pile. Want the full story? Binge every episode of The Poet ad-free now by subscribing to The Binge+. You’ll unlock over 60 true crime series instantly, get early access to drops on the first of every month, and hear exclusive bonus episodes. Search for the channel on Apple Podcasts or head to GetTheBinge.com. For behind-the-scenes details, join our free newsletter at Patreon.com/TheBinge. The Poet is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and New Metric Media. Follow @sonypodcasts and discover more at sonymusic.com/podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices at podcastchoices.com/adchoices. The Binge — feed your true crime obsession. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hello, I'm Elizabeth Day, the creator and host of How to Fail. It's the podcast that celebrates the things in life that haven't gone right, and what, if anything, we've learned from those mistakes to help us succeed better. Each week, my guests share three failures, sparking intimate, thought-provoking, and funny conversations. You'll hear from a diverse range of voices, sharing what they've learned through their failures. Join me Wednesdays for a new episode each week. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  Listen to every episode of The Poet ad-free right now when you subscribe to The Binge. You'll hear the entire series before anyone else, get exclusive bonus episodes, and unlock more than 60 other true crime podcasts. Just head to The Binge channel on Apple Podcasts and tap Subscribe, or visit getthebinge.com to listen wherever you are. The Binge: Feed your true crime obsession.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Wherever you go, on water or land, you've still got to pay. Or I tell about your brand.

• 1:20Speaker 02

  You talk to people I despise, like police, lieutenant, and telespies.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  Ruth Finley's tormentor wasn't letting up. A week after the first letter arrived, a second arrived in her mailbox.

• 1:39Speaker 01

  He had promised Ruth he'd send her his poetry, and here he was, delivering. Before long, these poems would lead to him being nicknamed "The Poet."

• 1:51Speaker 01

  The latest letter, here read for us by an actor, said,

• 1:55Speaker 02

  Ruth, how would you like to put about $100 in a tablet under the seat in your husband's PU?

• 2:06Speaker 01

  Ruth read that to mean her husband Ed's Ford pickup truck. The letter was full of these strange abbreviations. The writing was scribbled and erratic. What was clear was that he still wanted his payout.

• 2:20Speaker 02

  Don't tell no one. You can get that much without your husband to know it. I can find that lieutenant name on your car. Don't tell him neither.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  He somehow knew that Ruth had gone to the police.

• 2:36Speaker 02

  I can tell if anybody has watched me. Don't be a dumb bitch again and blow this.

• 2:49Speaker 01

  Despite the threat, Ruth called Lieutenant Bernie Drowatzky again. She read him the letter over the phone. Drowatzky asked her to bring it down to the station, so Ed hand-delivered it.

• 3:02Speaker 01

  At that same time, Drowatzky and his team were trying to decipher letters and poems from BTK. They were struck by the similarities, but they were also getting 30 tips a week. So they let Ruth's letter sit there, collecting dust. Ruth didn't obey the poet's orders. She didn't put $100 in the pickup truck like he requested, and she took her letter to the cops, which he specifically warned her not to do. Clearly, Ruth was no wallflower. She wasn't going to do what this man wanted. She was going to put up a fight.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  But Ruth's disobedience only angered the poet further. And just one week later, he got his revenge.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  Just two days before Thanksgiving, Ruth's sister Jean gets a call from Ruth's boss. He asks if she had eaten lunch with Ruth. Jean tells him she hadn't seen her sister at all that day.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Forty-five minutes later, Ruth's boss calls Jean again. "Have you heard from her?" he asks. Jean again says, "No." Ruth's boss immediately hangs up and calls Ed to tell him Ruth hasn't come back from lunch.

• 4:23Speaker 03

  Ed always knew where Ruth was, every second of the day and night. They were that close.

• 4:30Speaker 01

  Ed had been keeping close tabs on Ruth, trying to do everything in his power to keep her stalker, whoever he was, from harming her. The poems upset him. They were vile and demeaning towards the woman he loved. Ruth put on a brave face, but he could feel the toll it was taking on her. It was all too much.

• 4:50Speaker 03

  This was the first time in years that he did not know where his wife was. It had been two hours, he assumed the worst.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Ed calls the police to report her missing. Under regular circumstances, the police wouldn't act on a missing persons report that early. But Ed insists something is very wrong.

• 5:14Speaker 03

  He put everything together and thought, "This guy got her. He thought she was dead."

• 5:22Speaker 01

  From Sony Music Entertainment and Newmetric Media, this is The Poet. I'm Rachel Brown. Episode Two, Where's Ruth?

• 5:41Speaker 01

  Ruth is at work at the phone company, Southwestern Bell, on the morning of November 21, 1978, the day of her disappearance. One of her colleagues was having a birthday celebration in the office, and Ruth had forgotten to get her a birthday card.

• 5:56Speaker 03

  It was kind of a cold, windy, damp day, rainy, it rained.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  Reporter Fred Mann was a young journalist working at the Wichita Eagle Beacon at the time.

• 6:06Speaker 03

  She was kind of reluctant, she didn't know if she should leave, but she said, oh, she knew of a card store that was nearby. She didn't even take a coat, although she was advised by coworkers, "Hey, it's cold outside, you better put something on."

• 6:20Speaker 01

  These are Ruth's words, read for us by an actor.

• 6:25Speaker 04

  The wind was blowing, I hadn't a sweater on. I thought it would be too cool to walk. I think I'll go back.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  As she crosses the street to return to the office, Ruth gets this eerie feeling, like someone's following her.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  That's when an old, green, beat-up Chevy Bel Air pulls up to the curb. One of the rear windows is missing, patched up with tape. One side of the car has been caved in.

• 6:55Speaker 04

  This car pulled up beside me. The guy hopped out. He kicked me in the shins with sharp shoes.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  He pushes Ruth into the back of the car.

• 7:08Speaker 02

  Get in.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  The backseat of the car is missing. Ruth is thrown to the floor.

• 7:16Speaker 02

  You got my money.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  Ruth looks up and realizes, to her horror, it's the same man who had grabbed her in the alley months earlier, her stalker.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  There's another man in the car, in the driver's seat. He's got fuzzy hair poking out from under a wool cap. There's no rearview mirror, so Ruth can't see his face.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  As he starts to drive, he takes swigs of wine from a bottle wrapped in a brown paper bag. The entire car, inside and out, is a disaster. The dashboard seems to be kept together with tape, and there's trash everywhere.

• 7:55Speaker 04

  And it had lots of, like, big chains and just junk. And had a board on top of it, on the floor.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  She notices rags, stones, empty gas cans, and other things that make Ruth wonder if they've come from a farm. She's frantic, but she tries to keep her cool and memorize what's around her in case those details could be useful, if she survives this thing. The man next to her, her stalker, talks incessantly.

• 8:28Speaker 04

  He was talking about being a spy for the government. Buildings and what all he had done. He babbled all the time.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  This talk about buildings struck Ruth. Could this be the construction worker who called her after finding that newspaper clip about her assault in Fort Scott?

• 8:49Speaker 03

  He continued to talk about, "We're gonna go party. We're gonna have a party, you and me."

• 8:54Speaker 01

  There was something alarming about their suggestion of a party. Ruth hears fragments of their conversation and picks up that the driver's name is Buddy. She doesn't hear what her kidnapper is called. She thinks about trying to escape, but the door handle on her side is broken, and she worries she'll hurt herself if she leaps from the car. She notices a red bandana lying on the floor. When the men aren't looking, she picks it up and tucks it away.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  They cruise around town with Ruth for what feels like hours. She hopes someone will report the Chevy, which is noisy and falling apart, totally not fit for the road. At one moment, Ruth spots a police cruiser. She silently prays for the cop to pull them over, but he just keeps on driving.

• 9:46Speaker 04

  That is when he had me open my purse. And he said, "What you got in there?" And I had a check and a bond.

• 9:55Speaker 03

  He told Buddy, "Hey, we've hit the jackpot." He had her go through the purse to show him what was in it. He said, "You see, I'm not touching anything in the purse. They can't get any fingerprints out of me." He was really proud of that. His whole attitude is, "I'm better than you are. I know what I'm doing. You know, I've got you."

• 10:12Speaker 01

  Ruth is careful to comply and shows him every item in her purse, except for one: her can of mace.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  The stalker spots Lieutenant Drowatzky's business card in her purse and freaks right out. He's angry that Ruth is still talking to the police.

• 10:30Speaker 04

  He got very mad.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  He pulls up a hunk of something hard.

• 10:35Speaker 04

  Looked like a piece of concrete. He walked me with it.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  He hits Ruth in the head. The driver, Buddy, gets upset at this and tells him to leave Ruth alone.

• 10:48Speaker 04

  It was getting dark, and he said we would go home. Get some beer and go home. And then I panicked, you know? I thought there was no way I was going home with him. I told him I had to go to the bathroom.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  Ruth knows if she goes to another location with these guys, it's over for her.

• 11:14Speaker 05

  Hello, I'm Ozempic.

• 11:15Speaker 06

  And I'm other GLP-1s, kinda like him.

• 11:17Speaker 05

  Are you shaking a maraca? Nope, I'm shaking the pill version of Ozempic, which no one should ever do, except in ads like this.

• 11:23Speaker 06

  A nice disclaimer.

• 11:24Speaker 05

  Hey, thanks. Ask your doctor about which FDA-approved uses of the Ozempic pen or pill may be right for you. Call 1-833-OZEMPIC or visit Ozempic.com to view the medication guide and learn more about Ozempic semaglutide tablets, 9mg, and Ozempic semaglutide injection, 2mg.

• 11:40Speaker 06

  There's a pill version of Ozempic.

• 11:44Speaker 07

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• 12:13Speaker 01

  Ruth gets an idea. She tells her captors she's feeling sick. She warns the men that if she doesn't get to a bathroom quickly, that she will throw up all over the car.

• 12:24Speaker 04

  I tried to gag and irritated the driver. So they said, "Pull in here." And they pulled in by that kind of playground there on 21st Street by the river.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  The stalker tells Ruth to go down by the river. He tells her he'll watch her as she goes to the bathroom. He forces her to take off her shoes and sweater so that she doesn't try running off.

• 12:49Speaker 01

  By now, it's dark and cold and the ground is wet. The man walks Ruth, now barefoot, through the grass toward the bushes.

• 13:00Speaker 04

  He wasn't paying attention. Had a hold of my arm.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  Ruth reaches into her purse.

• 13:07Speaker 04

  I got the mace and shot him in the face. And he coughed and I ran.

• 13:14Speaker 01

  Ruth hides in the bushes and keeps quiet.

• 13:19Speaker 04

  I heard him calling. One of them. I don't know which one. If I would come back, they would give me my sweater and my shoes.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  She could tell they were furious. Ruth stays hidden, not quite sure exactly where she is.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  After a while, the men give up and leave. She's free.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  Ruth spots a liquor store across the street and runs to it. She bursts through the door, still barefoot and shivering from the cold.

• 13:54Speaker 04

  Someone's after me, she tells the store owner.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  He asks if he should call the police. Ruth says yes and asks him to call Ed too.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  Meanwhile, at home, Ed had been panicking and in constant contact with Ruth's boss, her sister Jean, and the cops. He was at his breaking point. Ruth had now been gone for more than four hours. When Ed's phone rings, he immediately assumes the liquor store owner is her kidnapper and demands to speak with Ruth. She comes on the line and tells Ed she's OK, but to please hurry down there. Wichita police detectives bring Ruth down to the police station. This kidnapping rocketed a somewhat lower priority stalking case right to the top of the pile. Now, they had proof someone was directly targeting Ruth's life.

• 14:55Speaker 01

  Ed and Ruth's sister Jean arrive at the police station. They find Ruth still clutching her mace.

• 15:03Speaker 03

  When Ed got there, he saw his wife was just a mess. You know, she was drenched, her hair was all over her forehead, her clothes were wet. She was not crying, she was not hysterical. She had been telling the story as calmly as she could to the cops.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  She describes what she can remember about the men to the police. The man who grabbed her is in his 40s or 50s with black hair that was graying around the temples, and he wore wire-framed glasses. He's the same man who accosted her a few months ago, but this time, she got a better look at him. She says he's around 5'8" to 5'10" and very skinny, around 145 pounds. He wore a flannel shirt and jeans. The driver was called Buddy. Ruth didn't get a good look at him, so she couldn't provide much of a physical description. The kidnappers got away with her payroll check, a savings bond, and some stationery from her purse. She got away with the red bandana from the car.

• 16:02Speaker 01

  She shows it to the cops, who examine it.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  Detectives head down to the spot where Ruth fled from her kidnappers in search of clues. At the river, they find Ruth's sweater and shoes, but that's it. Police jump into action to try to find more leads, going so far as to run a check on every Chevy model that matched Ruth's description of the kidnapper's vehicle. The police thought the car was so beaten up and distinctive that surely somebody would have noticed it.

• 16:35Speaker 03

  So they cruised that whole area for days, looking for the car, talking to people who may have seen her during the abduction.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  But there are no witnesses. The trail goes cold. Ed and Ruth stay on high alert, fearful that Ruth could be taken again at any time. Detective Arlen Smith of the Wichita Police recalls how things changed for the couple.

• 17:02Speaker 05

  She lived in fear that she would be kidnapped again. She tried to watch for people following her when she went to and from work. She and her husband changed their habits about where they ate and when they went out, when they came home, and they'd come home and they'd check the house carefully.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  The headaches she had been getting ever since she received the first poet phone call became an everyday occurrence now. She begins to suffer from intense stomach cramps. And there was little Ed felt he could do to protect his wife. He felt helpless and frustrated. But Ruth had been able to describe the man in detail. Ed was an artist. He liked to paint. So he put his skills to use and came up with a sketch of the guy with wire-rimmed glasses and graying hair. The police took his sketch and sent it in a special bulletin to all officers on the force and even posted it around town.

• 18:02Speaker 01

  Lieutenant Drowatzky and his team remain vigilant. He sends two police detectives to surveil Ruth at work, following her at a distance on the street during her lunch breaks. Jawwatski and the Finleys were working together closely, keeping each other in the loop on developments and theories. Jawwatski and his wife even start socializing with the Finleys, going to the same church. Jawwatski, an old-school kind of cop, usually kept his distance from the people involved in his investigations. But Ed and Ruth were so kind and generous that he and his wife fell into an easy friendship with them, even having dinner with them some evenings.

• 18:42Speaker 01

  But there was still one theory Lieutenant Jawwatski wasn't telling the Finleys: that her stalker could be BTK.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  A new poet letter detailed killing a fox. Was this a reference to BTK's murder of Nancy Jo Fox? Was BTK trying to tell them this was him? But BTK had never kidnapped anyone before. He always waited until his victims were safe at home and attacked them there. If this person going after Ruth really was BTK, he was changing his pattern and carrying out his violence in public.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  Then, just a few weeks after Ruth's kidnapping, Lieutenant Jawwatski himself receives a letter from the poet. Though the Wichita PD and local newspapers and TV stations had received numerous letters from BTK over the last few years, this was the first time Jawwatski had received a letter like this addressed to him personally, taunting him.

• 19:50Speaker 03

  "Burnaby, burnaby, you can't catch me." That was the tone.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  The letter is long and rambling, and accuses Jawwatski of, quote, "protecting a whore from death." Jawwatski was known to have a bit of a temper, and this gets under his skin. He's gonna solve this thing. So he goes back to the beginning. In the first call Ruth had received, the man told her he found the newspaper clipping about her attack while demolishing buildings. If this was a construction worker who had become obsessed with Ruth, he might still be working in Fort Scott. Maybe the secret to cracking the case lay in Ruth's past.

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• 21:05Speaker 05

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• 21:12Speaker 01

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• 21:29Speaker 01

  Lieutenant Drowatzky sent the relatively new officer, Mike McKenna, to Fort Scott, only a few hours from Wichita. McKenna took the Finleys along to search for clues from Ruth's past that could lead them to her tormentor and perhaps BTK himself.

• 21:47Speaker 01

  Their first stop is the house where Ruth was living in 1946. It's where she was attacked and branded on her inner thigh with a hot iron. Her attacker was never caught.

• 21:59Speaker 02

  We got there. We went to where the address was, where the house was supposed to be. The house had been torn down, demolished sometime in the 70s. So there was no house to look at.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  Detective McKenna and the other officers connect with the local police in Fort Scott.

• 22:20Speaker 02

  We asked the police department to look at the report on Ruth Finley, or Smalk as her name was at that time. And we asked for the file or the case jacket.

• 22:31Speaker 01

  They hope that a fresh look at the file might reveal something about the man who was targeting Ruth, but those hopes are quickly dashed.

• 22:41Speaker 02

  The police department in Fort Scott, Kansas, told us that they had destroyed the case files of any cases that had happened before 1953 or 54. So that means you were not very hard. Well, yeah.

• 22:59Speaker 01

  The only details that remained were those found in sensationalist media coverage in The Parson's Sun and The Wichita Eagle, under headlines like: Sadist mutilates high school girl. And: Chloroform fiend brands Fort Scott girl with flatiron.

• 23:18Speaker 01

  The police cast a wide net, looking for anyone who knew Ruth at the time, who might have known something about the attack.

• 23:26Speaker 02

  We looked for classmates that could tell us, and we just kept coming up with zeros. Nobody remembered it.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  They ask around to different local construction companies to see if Ruth's description of the man who kidnapped her fits anyone working in demolition in Fort Scott.

• 23:45Speaker 03

  People who may have employed this guy and couldn't, really couldn't find anybody.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  Ed, Ruth, and the cops come back to Wichita empty-handed. Another dead end.

• 23:59Speaker 01

  But Mike McKenna isn't ready to let up just yet. After a bit of digging in property records, he learns that Ruth's Fort Scott landlord at the time was actually living in a nursing home in Wichita. He goes to visit her on his own, without Ruth and Ed.

• 24:18Speaker 02

  I couldn't believe it. So I drove over there, and I went in to see this woman. Her name was Flora Hale, and she was 96 years old. And I spoke to Flora in her room, and introduced myself. Very nice lady.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  McKenna tells her he wants to ask her about something that happened in one of her rooming houses in Fort Scott, when a woman named Ruth Smock lived there.

• 24:50Speaker 02

  And I said, do you remember one afternoon, and I repeated the story, that a guy came into the apartment, rented her unconscious, and branded her with a iron on her thighs. And this lady looked at me, and she said, nothing like that ever happened at my apartments. And I said, you're sure? She said, yes, I'm quite sure. I would have known that, if something like that would have happened.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  Mike McKenna records her saying this: Then heads right to Drowatzky's office and plays it back to him.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  He listened to Flora. No, nothing like that ever happened in my apartment.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  When it was over, he said, she doesn't know what she's talking about. She's senile. I said, Bernie, this woman has as much sense as you or me, maybe more. But she knew that nothing like that had ever happened. She was insisting on it. No, no, he said, you just wasted your time. I said, OK.

• 26:01Speaker 01

  So McKenna, a loyal officer, continues on with the investigation. But he starts to wonder, what actually happened in Fort Scott?

• 26:16Speaker 01

  After Fort Scott, the letters keep coming.

• 26:19Speaker 02

  There once was a slut I met on the street who thought, to all men, she need not be sweet.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  And just like BTK's letters, these are misogynistic and perverse. Ed hand delivers each one to the cops down at the station. Reporter Fred Mann again.

• 26:42Speaker 03

  They were hand printed. Sometimes he would start off a letter with lined notebook paper and neatly printed, hand printed letters. And then they would devolve into sort of childhood print. And he would always misspell the same word. The word no as in I know you, he would spell N-O.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  The writing style alternates between nearly incoherent ramblings and sophisticated vocabulary. Words like obdurate and damnify.

• 27:13Speaker 02

  I'll disparage all whores. Invective words scatter, adducting at all in a morning, and my peace shatter.

• 27:27Speaker 01

  Ruth, ever the secretary, types out the letters and gives them to the cops. She would even add in definitions of the fancier words and her guesses at what some of the abbreviations could mean. She'd sometimes include a handwritten note to the officers.

• 27:44Speaker 04

  Hi sleuths. I don't know if you want this or not. Since I put out the effort, you're getting it anyway.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  Young Detective McKenna was a puzzler, a problem solver. He was determined to unearth any clues he could find in the letters.

• 28:02Speaker 02

  I would Xerox them and take them home and read them at night, trying to find a clue in the letter that might fit together with some other letter that we have and figure out who this guy is.

• 28:23Speaker 01

  In June of 1979, as Ruth's letters kept coming, another woman in Wichita received a letter. The same letter arrived at Cake TV. Both were signed BTK. The letter included a poem called "Oh Anna, Why Didn't You Appear?" The letter goes: Alone again I trod in past memory of mirrors and ponder why you, number eight, was not. Away, why didn't you appear? The recipient, Anna Williams, learns from this poem that she only just escaped being BTK's eighth victim.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  He broke into her home, then got impatient and left before she returned. The Wichita PD are now hard at work, stretching their poetry analysis skills on two cases and coming up short. They start to wonder if they should look to the relatively new world of criminal profiling for some help if they really want to understand who this guy is and what he's capable of. Then, one poem arrives in the Finley's mailbox that ups the ante. You know, in your fucked up mind, you are going to die. You don't know-

• 29:48Speaker 02

  You don't win, but you do know why.

• 29:55Speaker 02

  Correspondents from the assailant kept raising the bar, going from simply, "I want money," to "I'm gonna kill you."

• 30:07Speaker 01

  The police dig in, spending more time and resources surveilling Ruth.

• 30:13Speaker 01

  And then in July, more than a year into this ordeal, the letters to Ruth seem to slow down.

• 30:20Speaker 03

  There would be periods of nothing happening. Everybody would think, "Maybe it's over." A month would go by, nothing would happen, and everybody was sort of okay again. Some of the cops said, "He's done playing his game. He's gone."

• 30:37Speaker 01

  Did it work? Has their presence scared him away?

• 30:41Speaker 03

  If I knew the police were involved, I'd have got the hell out of there.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  Maybe Ruth's nightmare is finally over.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  But just as they thought they were out of the woods, the police get an alarming call. Ruth has been rushed to the hospital. She has been stabbed.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  Next time on The Poet.

• 31:11Speaker 02

  This guy comes up to her and stabs her. She's got three stab wounds in her back and her side.

• 31:20Speaker 03

  She told him, "I think I've been stabbed." And he said, "Just wait there. We'll get an ambulance to you."

• 31:29Speaker 06

  And of course, I said some nasty words and said, "He got her. He finally got her. Oh, my God, he got her."

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• 32:10Speaker 01

  The Poet is a production of Sony Music Entertainment, Newmetric Media, and Muse Entertainment. The show is hosted by me, Rachel Brown. The series is written and produced by Pippa Johnstone and Rachel Brown. From Newmetric Media, our executive producer is Chris Kelly. From Sony Music Entertainment, our executive producers are Catherine St. Louis and Jonathan Hirsch. For Muse Entertainment, our executive producer is Courtney Dobbins. Sound design and original music by Mark Angley. Nathan Howe is our story editor and associate producer. Consultant, Jean Stone. Fact checking by Maya Elhawari and Alexis Green.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  Our lawyers are Daniel Henry, Garland Anthony, and Austin Wong. Voice acting from Cassandra Sisson, Morgan Murray, and Anthony McMahon. Special thanks to Andres Lara, Patrick McConnell, Sammy Allison, Allison Haney, Emily Rassek, and the rest of the team at Sony Music Entertainment.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  The wilderness can hide a lot, but it can't hide the truth forever. I'm Delia Diambra, host of Park Predators. And every week, I investigate true crime cases hidden in national parks, forests, and beaches. I follow every lead, every clue, and every overlooked detail. Because even when a trail seems to disappear, the truth has a way of resurfacing. Listen to Park Predators wherever you get your podcasts.