U R NEXT | 5. Super Spy

A streamer named Ava undertakes a risky undercover mission to expose Vicious, while Sergeant Finley gets a new ally in his fight for justice. Want the full story? Binge every episode of U R NEXT ad-free now by subscribing to The Binge+. You’ll unlock over 60 true crime series instantly, get early access to drops on the first of every month, and hear exclusive bonus episodes. Search for the channel on Apple Podcasts or head to GetTheBinge.com. For behind-the-scenes details, join our free newsletter at Patreon.com/TheBinge. U R NEXT is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and Novel. Follow @sonypodcasts and discover more at sonymusic.com/podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices at podcastchoices.com/adchoices. The Binge — feed your true crime obsession. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  One day last year, police entered a mansion in LA County and discovered the couple that live there had almost two dozen children. Nearly every one of them born through surrogates. But those surrogates had been deceived.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  I started crying. I was like, what the heck did I just get myself into?

• 0:22Speaker 00

  I'm Eva Kaufman. The Journey is a new series from In the Dark and The New Yorker. Find it now in the In the Dark podcast feed.

• 0:32Speaker 02

  Listen to every episode of You Are Next ad-free right now when you subscribe to The Binge. You'll hear the entire series before anyone else. Get exclusive bonus episodes and unlock more than 60 other true crime podcasts. Just head to The Binge channel on Apple Podcasts and tap Subscribe, or visit getthebinge.com to listen wherever you are. The Binge: Feed your true crime obsession.

• 1:06Speaker 02

  Sergeant Ben Finley isn't the kind of guy who backs down easily, especially when he's on the trail of someone as dangerous as Vicious. It's around early spring 2014. Ben's been busy for weeks tracing all the homes and businesses that Vicious has swatted, all the people he's been terrorizing. Ben's convinced Vicious is a Canadian teenager. When he first contacted the Canadian police, he was hopeful that they could share information to help him build the case, maybe even work together with him in bringing Vicious to justice. But the Canadian authorities couldn't share any information.

• 1:47Speaker 02

  So who does this country cop, who won't take no for an answer, turn to next? Well, the FBI, of course.

• 1:59Speaker 03

  I called the computer crimes unit down at the FBI in Atlanta. Hey, guys, this is what I've got.

• 2:06Speaker 02

  Ben eventually gets put through to an agent named Andrew Young. Andrew's been with the FBI for nearly 20 years. He's part of the FBI's cybersecurity program.

• 2:17Speaker 04

  I picked up the phone and we began a conversation and set up a time to meet and discuss.

• 2:23Speaker 03

  Sometimes phone doesn't get action. Sometimes face to face gets action. And I'm an action kind of guy. I like to be the guy to make stuff happen.

• 2:31Speaker 04

  Quite frankly, he said he needed some help, right? Because the way our law enforcement system is designed here in the US, it's very hard for local jurisdictions at the city or county level to work across international borders. And so it's helpful to have the FBI who has the resources and the connectivity across all borders to kind of facilitate.

• 2:54Speaker 03

  So next week, he shows up in my office.

• 2:56Speaker 04

  We first met and he's got this big box full of folders, lots of manila folders, full of police records with different cities and jurisdictions on them. And he kind of walked me through what happened in Johns Creek, why he felt so passionate about this particular incident, reviewed all the files and expressed to me why he felt like they were all linked together. And, you know, he's not an emotional type, but he is passionate.

• 3:24Speaker 02

  After Ben's done with his pitch, he stops for breath. He's waiting for Andrew to break down how the case is going to go from here, how the FBI is going to help him chase down this perp, all the way to Canada and back again.

• 3:38Speaker 03

  He goes, "Well, we can't really help until it's prolific." And I said, "Well, I know what prolific means, Andrew, but what does it mean to the FBI? What is, is there a number or is there a type of incident?" And he's like, "Yeah, I don't know." And I was like, "Well, Andrew, if you don't know, how am I supposed to know?" He goes, "Man, all I can tell you is just keep working. If anything changes, you got anything good, just let me know."

• 4:01Speaker 02

  Ben is dejected and surprised by this latest setback. To him, vicious is 100% prolific. The FBI dragging their feet only gives vicious more opportunity to target young women, more opportunity to cause harm. But Ben uses this as fuel.

• 4:23Speaker 02

  Staying on Vicious's tracks, he manages to link him to a few more cases. Soon, the numbers are racking up.

• 4:31Speaker 03

  10, 15, 20, 25.

• 4:34Speaker 02

  Each time Ben reaches a new milestone, he calls Andrew back.

• 4:38Speaker 03

  Probably, I don't know, five or six times.

• 4:41Speaker 02

  But the answer is always the same.

• 4:43Speaker 03

  Uh, I don't know if that's enough.

• 4:49Speaker 03

  I find I still like calling you no more, Andrew, shit. I know it's not your fault, but it's ridiculous. It's gonna be only a matter of time before something bad happens. Someone is gonna get hurt or die.

• 5:07Speaker 02

  From Sony Music Entertainment and Novel, this is You Are Next. I'm Lee Alexander.

• 5:37Speaker 02

  This is episode five, "Super Spy."

• 5:49Speaker 02

  The authorities being slow off the mark to take the threat of Vicious seriously has been an unfortunate running theme with this story. Esther and Natasha both told us that they felt like the police weren't doing enough, that they felt ignored, unlistened to, and unprotected. The streamers Vicious was targeting often had to take matters into their own inexperienced hands and become unlikely crime fighters.

• 6:17Speaker 05

  I'm very risk averse as a person generally.

• 6:20Speaker 02

  This is Ava. We've changed her name, and her words are voiced by an actor. By 2014, Ava's in college. She's been streaming for a few years, mostly playing League of Legends.

• 6:32Speaker 05

  I used to play a lot of support. The support role is mostly about keeping your team safe and making sure the other team doesn't harm them.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  Ava's building herself a pretty impressive fanbase.

• 6:43Speaker 05

  I was probably averaging around 300 to 400 viewers a stream. I had like 20,000 followers on my YouTube and then also 20 to 25 on my Twitch.

• 6:53Speaker 02

  Even though she's got tens of thousands of followers, Ava's not looking at streaming as a potential career. Some of that comes from her parents' influence.

• 7:02Speaker 05

  I had parents that were immigrants, so I think that shaped a lot of my worldview of just working hard, making sure I get good grades in school. Obviously, video games and anything entertaining or fun or cool as a kid was not a priority.

• 7:16Speaker 02

  It's also Ava's own risk aversion that's stopping her from pursuing streaming professionally.

• 7:23Speaker 05

  Streaming didn't seem like a super-stable career. The internet was kind of like a Wild West, and I mean, it is still Wild West now. With the rise of streaming and just the live element of it, there was obviously bad actors that would crash someone's stream or disrupt them or do something that would get a lot of attention and then pay credit for that attention.

• 7:46Speaker 02

  It's approaching summer 2014 when Ava starts to hear rumors about one of the worst actors of all:

• 7:54Speaker 02

  Vicious.

• 7:59Speaker 05

  He was definitely gaining notoriety at the time, especially within the League of Legends community, because that's where he found a lot of his targets.

• 8:08Speaker 05

  You would hear rumblings of like, "Oh, this person got DDoS'd" or "this person had something happen to them."

• 8:17Speaker 05

  I didn't think it would happen to me.

• 8:21Speaker 02

  But Vicious already has Ava in his sights. Like with so many other victims, it starts with a DDoS attack while Ava's on stream.

• 8:30Speaker 05

  My stream is being really slow and laggy.

• 8:33Speaker 02

  Ava decides to log off, call it a night.

• 8:35Speaker 05

  I say, "Hey, guys, so sorry. Something is happening. I'm gonna end my stream today." And then, a couple minutes later, I get this DM on Twitter from this person called Vicious. Hey, I was the one DDoS'ing your stream. I'll keep doing it unless you add me on Skype.

• 8:55Speaker 05

  Curiosity really drove me. So I added him on Skype either that same day or the next day. I just wanted to see what was going on. Like, why was he doing this? What he wanted?

• 9:07Speaker 02

  Vicious wants exactly what he wanted from Natasha, from Esther, and from every young woman and girl he comes across.

• 9:16Speaker 02

  Access, attention, and control.

• 9:26Speaker 02

  Ava's heard about Vicious and his tactics, so she knows that ignoring him does not work.

• 9:33Speaker 05

  Ignoring really wasn't a strategy that was viable for a lot of people, unfortunately. If people would ignore him or try to brush him off, he would get quite angry about it.

• 9:42Speaker 02

  Ava decides to try a different tactic.

• 9:45Speaker 05

  Pretending we're friends.

• 9:47Speaker 02

  If she can keep him on side, she might be able to keep streaming and, more importantly, keep herself safe. But she knows how risky it is.

• 9:57Speaker 05

  He's happy with me now. But if I say something that he doesn't like or one day he changes his mind, then I could be next.

• 10:06Speaker 02

  Ava keeps up the friendly facade and indulges Vicious to protect herself.

• 10:12Speaker 05

  Initially, it was just IMing, so he would message me daily. He expected a lot of instantaneous interactions. If you didn't pick up right away, he would like message four or five times, being like, "Pick up, pick up, pick up." If I ignored him for too long, he would start publicly tweeting at me.

• 10:31Speaker 02

  In their messages back and forth, Vicious asks Ava to send photos of herself multiple times. But she's able to bat him off, distract him by asking about his life.

• 10:42Speaker 05

  He gave very little in terms of actual personal details. But then occasionally, he would like let his real self leak through, saying, "I'm so lonely, and why won't you talk with me?" I definitely had the impression he wasn't very mature as a person.

• 11:00Speaker 05

  He acknowledged the fact that he was doing malicious things intentionally to harm people, but he never seemed guilty. Absolutely no remorse at all. Like, for him, everything was hilarious and funny. And, you know, women crying or people begging him to stop, he just found it entertaining. And part of the motivation for him to do these things is to feel like he has power over these women.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  Even with Ava pretending to be his friend, giving him the attention he so clearly craves, Vicious isn't satisfied.

• 11:34Speaker 05

  Eventually, like, with all his victims, he finds out your phone number, your address. He would call my house at very odd hours, probably 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning. He was like, "Hi, it's me. I just wanted to call and chat." Like, it was nonchalant.

• 11:52Speaker 05

  I knew he wanted to get a rise out of me, so I was just like, "Okay, hi, like, how are you?" I just tried to pretend it was a totally normal 2:00 AM conversation from a stranger who was targeting me on the internet and just not give him the reaction he wanted. Eventually, we just ended up hanging up. I was totally freaked. I couldn't sleep at all the rest of the night because I was like, "Oh, my gosh." Even despite my best efforts to placate him and act friendly and pretend like I'm interested in his hacking community, he can still, like, reach me. I think it's important for people to realize that he had personal details on every single person. And if you wanted to ruin your life,

• 12:35Speaker 05

  he really could pretty easily on his end. It's not that easy to just quote-unquote "log off."

• 12:43Speaker 02

  Ava's trying to stay calm and not let Vicious get to her, but she's constantly seeing him brag about the terror he's raining down.

• 12:52Speaker 05

  He was so public with his actions on Twitter. He would tweet at a lot of streamers being like, "Hey, did you enjoy me calling your house?" Or like, "Hey, did you enjoy that pizza I sent?" Like, he was very, very outspoken about taking credit for these things. I'm definitely worried that he's gonna swat me next. It was always a risk.

• 13:17Speaker 02

  Ava's treading water, but she's scared she's about to get pulled under.

• 13:25Speaker 02

  A message comes through. This time, it's not from Vicious. It's from another streamer, who we'll call Melissa.

• 13:34Speaker 02

  Melissa is one of the biggest League of Legends streamers out there.

• 13:38Speaker 05

  I knew that she, in particular, was a big victim of his because he was very public about his actions towards her.

• 13:45Speaker 02

  Melissa tells Ava that she's building a case against Vicious and that she wants Ava's help.

• 13:53Speaker 05

  She was contacting the police, so she wanted to find more witnesses. And she was looking for evidence. And like, we don't really have anything on this guy that's like solid.

• 14:03Speaker 02

  Even though Vicious brags, often, on social media about the streamers he's harassing and the swattings he's responsible for, there's not a lot of hard evidence actively showing him swatting or hacking someone.

• 14:18Speaker 05

  Melissa said it'd really help if you could speak out as well because that would add to the case.

• 14:23Speaker 02

  Ava realizes this is an opportunity to do a lot more than just speak out.

• 14:30Speaker 02

  This is her chance to find the smoking gun and take out Vicious, once and for all.

• 14:37Speaker 05

  It was a big risk, but I can stop it.

• 14:44Speaker 05

  I gained his trust a little bit, so he was kind of like letting me in into this almost like inner circle of him and his hacker friends and these group Skype calls. So that's when I first got the idea to start recording things.

• 14:58Speaker 02

  Ava starts plotting a risky undercover operation.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  The mission? To catch Vicious hacking, extorting, or swatting in the act.

• 15:11Speaker 05

  It was waiting for the right opportunity. There was this whole anticipation of setting it up, sort of continuing to drop hints like, "Oh, like, I'd be super interested in learning more about this. I find this so funny." Seeming like I was interested in getting more involved and helping out. And then he'll open up and kind of let me in and then maybe slip up or let something go that he probably shouldn't have because he trusts me. Then I'll be able to record that.

• 15:49Speaker 02

  Ava's laid her trap.

• 15:53Speaker 02

  Now, all she has to do is wait for Vicious to take the bait. And she doesn't have to wait long.

• 16:01Speaker 02

  Vicious has something to ask her.

• 16:04Speaker 05

  He said, "Hey, I'm in this call right now. I'm doing this thing. I'm gonna try and figure out this person's address. Do you want to be added to this?"

• 16:16Speaker 02

  Showtime.

• 16:42Speaker 02

  The once risk averse Ava is now in a Skype call with Vicious and some of his friends, his fellow hackers who follow and encourage his every move. They're plotting to break into someone's internet provider. Unauthorized access to someone's computer or a private account is illegal and can be punishable with up to five years in prison.

• 17:07Speaker 02

  Ava knows the moment is now or never.

• 17:12Speaker 02

  She steals her nerve and discreetly starts recording her screen,

• 17:19Speaker 02

  capturing everything Vicious is doing.

• 17:22Speaker 05

  It was definitely very, very nerve wracking. My heart was racing and my palms were sweaty. There's so many things that could go wrong. If somehow he found out that like there was this recording going on, he wouldn't have taken that very lightly.

• 17:41Speaker 05

  I don't want to pretend like I'm some hero because I was scared. I was definitely scared. But I think bravery just comes from doing things scared, honestly.

• 17:56Speaker 02

  Some of the faces Ava can see in this call shock her.

• 18:00Speaker 05

  There was another streamer within the Skype call. I was very surprised to see her there and maybe she was also very surprised to see me there.

• 18:09Speaker 02

  Ava can't tell if this other streamer is on her own undercover mission or if she's one of Vicious's gang.

• 18:16Speaker 05

  It was hard to say. Obviously, I couldn't communicate with her in the call.

• 18:20Speaker 02

  Vicious doesn't seem to pick up on Ava's nervousness or her shock at seeing this other streamer on the call. He's busy trying to find a way into his next target's life.

• 18:31Speaker 06

  So, if you're on the phone, do you have an employee ID?

• 18:35Speaker 07

  Uh, yes. AC1379.

• 18:39Speaker 02

  You're hearing a reenactment of a real recording made by Ava. Vicious is on the phone to an internet service provider. He's trying to gain access to the account so he can take it over, possibly to cut off his victim's internet.

• 18:53Speaker 06

  Okay. Uh, in order to get that information, you'd actually need to speak with my character. Did you want a hold?

• 19:00Speaker 07

  Um, sure.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  Vicious seems annoyed. The call isn't going as easily as he hoped. He clearly wants to impress Ava and all his hacker friends with how quickly he can crack into the account. Maybe his luck is starting to run out.

• 19:15Speaker 07

  Fucking so done right now? I don't want to call back.

• 19:20Speaker 02

  Vicious ends the Skype call. Ava's barely breathing as she quickly clips the recording she's made and sends it to Melissa.

• 19:29Speaker 05

  My mind was running wild with all these ways that he could have found out.

• 19:33Speaker 02

  But the axe never falls. Ava's pulled it off.

• 19:37Speaker 05

  Super spy.

• 19:42Speaker 02

  She's managed to become part of Vicious's inner circle. He starts inviting her onto more calls.

• 19:48Speaker 05

  It's not like he would just add me to these calls every day. He was very sporadic about things. It would just be like a random, like 2:00 PM on a Tuesday, and he would just drag me into the call, basically.

• 20:03Speaker 02

  Ava risks her own safety time and time again by getting onto these calls with Vicious. Each time she joins one and witnesses Vicious trying to hack into more accounts or talking about extorting or even swatting someone, Ava secretly records what he's doing and sends it on. But Ava doesn't hear anything back from Melissa. Nothing about how the case is coming along or what the police are doing with the evidence that she's sticking her neck out to get.

• 20:34Speaker 05

  She was pretty tight-lipped about it. And honestly, I was a little sad that no one provided me an update as to like what happened. Like, did my evidence help you at all? Did this recording help?

• 20:52Speaker 02

  My team and I reached out to Melissa. She didn't want to be interviewed for this series. But she did tell us that the police were incredibly slow to act, which sounds awfully familiar, doesn't it?

• 21:04Speaker 05

  I actually thought the case went nowhere and that he just like disappeared off the face of the earth.

• 21:11Speaker 02

  But Vicious hasn't disappeared. He's simply moved on, finding new victims to terrorize.

• 21:20Speaker 02

  In September, he swats a high school in Florida. He calls them up and says,

• 21:26Speaker 03

  I'm 15 minutes away with a loaded firearm. I'm wearing explosives.

• 21:31Speaker 07

  I'm going to kill everyone on campus.

• 21:33Speaker 02

  The whole school has to be evacuated. And then that same month, Vicious zeroes in on a popular streamer who we'll call Katie.

• 21:41Speaker 03

  The lengths he went to go after that, that girl and her family is unbelievable.

• 21:47Speaker 02

  After a barrage of harassment and threats, Vicious swats Katie in September.

• 21:52Speaker 07

  Well, I just shot my parents with a loaded AR-15.

• 21:56Speaker 02

  This is a reenactment of a call Vicious made to Katie's local police department.

• 22:02Speaker 07

  In my hands, and I'm gonna go to my neighbor's house and kill them too. I'm gonna go to my other neighbors and I'm gonna shoot up the entire block.

• 22:10Speaker 02

  Police swarm into Katie's apartment, only to find her there alone and terrified. Five days later, Vicious swats her again. He also swats her parents' house at the same time.

• 22:22Speaker 07

  I, I took my father's gun. I just shot them both, ma'am.

• 22:26Speaker 02

  In this call, Vicious is acting a lot more. He's not as nonchalant as he's been in some of his previous swatting calls.

• 22:33Speaker 07

  I'm so scared, ma'am. I just wanna kill myself. I just wanna shoot myself.

• 22:37Speaker 06

  Stay under line with me, okay?

• 22:39Speaker 07

  I don't wanna go to jail.

• 22:41Speaker 02

  Vicious sounds breathless and terrified. An Oscar-worthy performance designed to get the police to mobilize their SWAT team and get his audience a big show.

• 22:52Speaker 06

  So how many shots have you fired?

• 22:53Speaker 07

  Uh, I, I shot four times.

• 22:57Speaker 06

  Where are your parents right now?

• 22:59Speaker 07

  In the kitchen. I can't go away. I'm scared to even look at them, ma'am. Oh, God.

• 23:05Speaker 02

  Police descend once more. Katie's at her apartment with her mom, while her dad and brother are in the family home. They're led out at gunpoint.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  The double swatting hits the news, and Vicious posts a link to his Twitter account, bragging that he's responsible.

• 23:26Speaker 03

  That was me, lol.

• 23:27Speaker 02

  He tweets at Katie's mom, saying,

• 23:30Speaker 03

  Heard you got shot. You alright?

• 23:33Speaker 02

  Vicious doesn't stop at the double swatting. He calls and messages Katie constantly, uses a program that spams her phone by sending 218 text messages simultaneously. He hacks into her university account, changing her passwords. He takes over her Twitter account, posting her and her family's addresses, credit card details, and social security numbers. He hacks into their cellphone provider, signing them up for a $500 a month plan. He even tries to have their water shut off. My team reached out to Katie, but she couldn't face talking about what she'd been through.

• 24:11Speaker 03

  He traumatizes this girl. He traumatizes to the point now, like, you guys know, she's not gonna talk to us. She's not gonna say anything. She wants absolutely nothing to do with us. And it's a shame to know that these many years have gone by and she's still scared to death of this animal.

• 24:24Speaker 02

  Ben's starting to feel kind of helpless. He's been after this guy for months, trying to build a case as he wades through the destruction Vicious is leaving in his wake.

• 24:34Speaker 03

  You get so caught up in it and looking through this stuff, it'd be like 7:30 at night, I'd be in my office and the cleaning crew would come through the building. And I'm like, oh, Lord, I've been here too long.

• 24:44Speaker 02

  So it's probably about time he got a lucky break.

• 24:50Speaker 02

  Despite his promise not to call anymore, Ben's still been keeping Agent Andrew Young from the FBI updated.

• 24:58Speaker 02

  One night, he calls Andrew up again, lets him know how many cases he's been able to tie to Vicious. Last time they spoke, it was 25.

• 25:08Speaker 03

  I said, is the number 44 prolific? He's like, Jesus Christ, are you serious? Yeah, I stopped at 44, but, uh, is that enough? I think we can probably call that prolific.

• 25:22Speaker 04

  I was shocked at how many of these swatting incidents were taking place, like weekly. I mean, it was disturbing, to be quite honest with you. And it was a great motivator to help them.

• 25:34Speaker 02

  With the FBI finally on board, Ben at last has some much-needed backup in his fight against vicious.

• 25:41Speaker 03

  An internet terrorist. That's the best thing to describe him as. Instead of using a bomb or a gun, he's using the internet.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  Ben just needs to hold out hope that it's not all coming too late.

• 25:54Speaker 03

  This stuff's not gonna stop. It's not gonna slow down. He loves to terrorize girls. This isn't just one or two. This is this guy's full-time passion.

• 26:10Speaker 03

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• 26:41Speaker 00

  The wilderness can hide a lot, but it can't hide the truth forever. I'm Delia Diambra, host of Park Predators. And every week, I investigate true crime cases hidden in national parks, forests, and beaches. I follow every lead, every clue, and every overlooked detail. Because even when a trail seems to disappear, the truth has a way of resurfacing. Listen to Park Predators wherever you get your podcasts.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  It's winter 2014. Since finally convincing the FBI to join his fight, Ben's been back diligently working the case with Agent Andrew Young right by his side.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  They're all but certain they know Vicious's true identity, the 16-year-old from Canada whose details Ben found on all those online message boards where teenage gamers dox each other. To move forward, Ben and Andrew need cold, hard proof that shows Vicious really is this Canadian teenager. Proof of his hacking, his harassment, his attempts to extort photos. Proof that would stand up in court.

• 28:00Speaker 04

  For months and months went on, there was just nothing there. There was nothing we could act on.

• 28:09Speaker 02

  Something that's been clear to me in the many months I've spent making this series is that Vicious wants what Esther, Natasha, and Ava have. Not just their attention, but their success. He wants desperately to be somebody that people notice. It's why he so publicly brags about all the crimes he's committing. But while Ava and the others built their audiences from the ground up using their personalities and their passion for gaming as a way to genuinely connect with their fanbase, Vicious doesn't seem like he's capable of doing that. It seems like the only way he can get anyone to notice him, to watch his live streams, is by amping up his behavior to more and more extremes.

• 28:52Speaker 02

  And the thrill he gets from forcing a reaction, from being noticed even as a villain, makes it all worthwhile. Whatever it takes to get those views, right? Though, he's only attracting an audience of people exactly like him, which, of course, is never big enough.

• 29:12Speaker 07

  I only have 20 followers right now, which is fucking gay.

• 29:17Speaker 02

  It's early December. Vicious is on stream with some of his friends. What you're hearing is a reenactment of a real broadcast. Vicious isn't on camera himself. He's sharing his screen while he's scrolling through a website featuring cam girls, women who perform sex work on camera for a live audience.

• 29:36Speaker 07

  What girl should we tip, guys? They're all really ugly on here right now.

• 29:42Speaker 02

  Vicious clicks on one cam girl's live video and starts streaming it to his audience. She's slim with long brown hair and a polka dot headband. She looks very young.

• 29:53Speaker 07

  She's being a bitch. I'm tipping $1. This girl's the biggest bitch ever. I'm paying her to moan stuff and she won't even do it.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  Vicious is communicating with the cam girl via a live chat. His audience on stream keeps egging him on, telling him to instruct her to do increasingly degrading things, like draw on her face or bark like a dog. Vicious is all too happy to comply as they laugh at her together.

• 30:21Speaker 07

  Look at her, look at her right now. What the fuck?

• 30:26Speaker 02

  It's extremely difficult to watch. The girl looks increasingly uncomfortable with each new request. Vicious and his friends constantly comment on her body, on what they can get her to do, on how funny it would be if she was under 18.

• 30:40Speaker 07

  Holy shit. She's doing it. Oh, she's gonna fucking do it.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  After about half an hour, the cam girl shuts off her performance. For now, Vicious's not-so-private peep show is over. It seems like he has other things on his mind, anyway.

• 30:59Speaker 07

  Wait, I forgot. I have to do a swap for someone.

• 31:03Speaker 07

  So I guess I'll do that right now.

• 31:06Speaker 02

  Vicious calls up a police department in Minnesota while he's on stream. Everyone watching can hear his end of the call.

• 31:13Speaker 07

  Okay, what happened is, I came up to their door and I knocked on it. And then they opened the door and I pointed my AR-15 at them. And they let me in.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  He sounds almost bored. Guess if you do it enough, no high hits the same after a while.

• 31:31Speaker 07

  I tied up all the family members in the house. Being one boyfriend and one girlfriend there. And they're currently in the other room. And what I want you to do, is I want you to get one officer, only one, unarmed. I don't care if he's wearing a vest or something. To get a clear plastic bag with 20 grand in it. Walk up to the door, knock on it three times, leave the money there and walk away. If I see you guys trying to raid the apartment, I will kill everybody. Okay? Is that clear?

• 32:05Speaker 02

  But, a portion of his livestream audience, isn't on board.

• 32:12Speaker 03

  Police, how can I help you?

• 32:13Speaker 02

  Hi, yeah. You guys received a call about an AR, a man with an AR-15 in the house. I don't remember the name or whatever.

• 32:19Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  He tied, it's a hoax. His viewers are reporting him to the police.

• 32:26Speaker 03

  There's a guy on the internet saying that there's a gun in this guy's house. And he's not, it's on livestream. It's something called swatting.

• 32:33Speaker 02

  More and more calls are flooding in.

• 32:35Speaker 03

  I wanted to call you guys so you'd back guy can get swatted, because that's pretty serious.

• 32:39Speaker 07

  I appreciate that very much. Thank you so much for calling in.

• 32:43Speaker 03

  Um, thank you very much. Have a great night, guys.

• 32:46Speaker 02

  There's a shift happening here.

• 32:52Speaker 02

  For a long time, it seemed like Vicious would just never stop. That his captive viewership would keep fueling his hunger for attention and the toxic cycle would continue forever. But now, Vicious is starting to lose control of his audience. And the tide is turning. Maybe some of his viewership are starting to discover a long-awaited conscience. Maybe some of them are just growing up, full stop. And their taste for his particular brand of teenage sociopathy is diminishing. But there's still one dedicated viewer who's not going anywhere. Which is bad news for Vicious.

• 33:36Speaker 02

  Because it's Andrew, from the FBI. He's been watching Vicious on stream for months now.

• 33:45Speaker 04

  Every morning, I would come in, grab my first cup of coffee, sit down at my desk. I would turn my computer on and go to the various Twitch channels and recordings that we were making.

• 33:59Speaker 02

  Watching a bunch of teenagers on stream is not where Andrew thought his glittering FBI career would lead him.

• 34:06Speaker 04

  It was painful, to be quite honest with you. It was hours upon hours of watching and listening to teenagers just play regular video games, talking back and forth about nothing, trying to up the other one in their outlandish comments.

• 34:22Speaker 02

  The comments from Vicious and his degenerate friends range from the outlandish to the outright homophobic.

• 34:31Speaker 04

  "I'm fucking gay." "Yes." "Cocks in my butthole." When I would come home and I would tell my wife, she would say, "Hey, how was your day today?" I'd say, "Well, I listened to six hours of streaming videos." And she's like, "Are you kidding me?" I had to watch these videos because we were just not coming up with any leads on the technical side. And based on my experience, I just knew that at some point in time, somebody's gonna slip up, somebody's gonna say something, and it's my job to be there and catch it when they fall.

• 35:07Speaker 02

  One day, Andrew is in his office, watching his least favorite show.

• 35:12Speaker 04

  Like every other morning, I was into it for a couple of hours. Nothing was happening. Didn't expect anything to happen. And all of a sudden, at that point, it was like a big light flash moment.

• 35:25Speaker 04

  Somebody slipped up. Somebody had turned the camera around.

• 35:33Speaker 02

  Someone, either Vicious or one of his friends he's on livestream with, shows Vicious's desktop on stream. It's barely there for a few seconds, but it's enough. Vicious hasn't had time to hide what's on his screen. Andrew can see what must be a treasure trove of folders and other personal information. All of it proves, without a doubt, that Vicious is that same teenager from Canada that they've suspected all along.

• 36:03Speaker 04

  That was the game-changing moment. At first, it's unbelievable. I can't believe what I just saw. And then you have to go back and play it again, and you're like, your excitement level just starts to climb. We wanted and fought heavily for the Canadians to prosecute him, not to just let him walk because he was a minor.

• 36:24Speaker 02

  Andrew and Ben hand over all the evidence they've painstakingly collected to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Before long, they get the call. Not only are the RCMP joining the case, they're on their way to arrest Vicious. Right now.

• 36:46Speaker 02

  On the final episode of You Are Next.

• 36:49Speaker 03

  If he's not changed, he's always gonna be a threat. You can sense the air gets behind it. He thinks it's funny.

• 36:55Speaker 05

  He reached out and he wanted to talk. I can't believe he's still thinking about me. 10 years later. Hey, remember me?

• 37:26Speaker 02

  This is You Are Next, an original production of Sony Music Entertainment and Novel. Hosted by me, Lee Alexander. Lee Meyer is our senior producer. Verdi De Cala is our assistant producer. Sandra Schmueli is our editor. Production management from Cherie Houston, Joe Savage, and Charlotte Wolfe. For Novel, our executive producer is Max O'Brien. From Sony Music Entertainment, our executive producers are Catherine St. Louis and Jonathan Hirsch. Story development by Nell Gray Andrews, Willard Foxton, and Selena Metta, who is director of development for Novel. Special thanks to Carolyn Shirleven at Miller Korzenick Raymond LLP, and to Ford Collier,

• 38:10Speaker 02

  who performed the woodwind for our theme music. And a big thanks to the whole Sony Music Entertainment team.

• 38:24Speaker 02

  I'm Josh Manikowitz, and I hope you'll join us for season five of Dateline: Missing in America. In each episode of Dateline's award-winning series, we will focus on one missing person's case, and hear from the families, the friends, and the investigators all desperate to find them. Maybe you could help solve a mystery. Search Dateline: Missing in America to listen completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium to unlock new episodes early.