Pod Insights The Binge Cases: Doctor Billions U R NEXT | 2. Madder than a Wet Hen About this episode Sergeant Ben Finley is as analog as they come. But when a swatting wreaks havoc on his beat, he starts chasing an anonymous and ruthless digital criminal.
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Transcript 0:00 Speaker 00 When you put your body in the hands of a surgeon, you assume your doctor will do you no harm.
0:06 Speaker 01 I'm looking at the surgery board for tomorrow going, "These people are [BLEEP]."
0:13 Speaker 00 But when your doctor's in it just for the money, something absolutely insane happens.
0:19 Speaker 02 One doctor says, "Yeah, I did a lumbar fusion. My kickback was $25,000." And the other doctor's going, "Well, I only got $12,000 because I did a neck."
0:28 Speaker 00 This is a story about a massive web of fraud and deception. Dozens of doctors all over Southern California. A fraud worth over $1 billion.
0:40 Speaker 03 Patients were committing suicide, losing their homes, losing their marriages.
0:44 Speaker 00 From Sony Music Entertainment and Western Sound, this is Dr. Billions, available now on The Binge. Search for Dr. Billions wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribers to The Binge can listen to all episodes all at once, ad-free.
1:00 Speaker 04 Listen to every episode of You Are Next, ad-free, right now when you subscribe to The Binge. You'll hear the entire series before anyone else, get exclusive bonus episodes, and unlock more than 60 other true crime podcasts. Just head to The Binge channel on Apple Podcasts and tap Subscribe, or visit getthebinge.com to listen wherever you are. The Binge: Feed your true crime obsession.
1:26 Speaker 04 The Binge.
1:33 Speaker 04 Sergeant Ben Finley has always been kind of an analog guy. He definitely wasn't what you'd call an early adopter of the internet.
1:42 Speaker 05 I think I kind of resisted it for a while. And people were like, "Oh, man, you gotta get on Google and look this up." And I'm like, "What the hell is a Google?"
1:50 Speaker 04 Ben's digital prowess has improved a lot since he said that, which, to be fair, wouldn't be hard. But he still never saw himself being a digital sheriff.
2:01 Speaker 05 Chasing bad people on the internet. Never thought that would get to that point. I always thought how fun it was to chase them in person. I never knew what it was like to chase them through the internet. Digital world.
2:11 Speaker 04 So how is it that a country cop who once said, "What the hell is a Google?" Ends up being the guy chasing the online predator who targeted Esther, her family, and countless others? Well, for that, we need to go back to January 16th, 2014.
2:32 Speaker 04 It's about 4:30 PM. Ben is in his precinct in Johns Creek, Georgia.
2:37 Speaker 05 We're going through the evening before reports and whatnot. We always have our radios on and I can hear stuff, but it's kind of like in the background.
2:45 Speaker 06 Shot's fired, person shot. We got an armed individual inside who claims he's already shot children.
2:52 Speaker 05 Holy shit.
2:54 Speaker 07 Hey, this is Alpha 911. Can you give me your address, sir?
2:59 Speaker 06 Carl, Phil Lane.
3:00 Speaker 07 Spell the street for me.
3:02 Speaker 06 C-A-R-L-I-S-L-E.
3:05 Speaker 07 Uh huh, uh huh. In Johns Creek.
3:07 Speaker 06 If you send me cops here, I swear to God, I'll shoot the ass.
3:09 Speaker 07 Okay.
3:11 Speaker 06 Bitch, I ain't going down without a motherfucking fight. I'm gonna throw a fight, I'm gonna take some motherfuckers with me. I killed the mom, I killed the dad, and I killed the little boy in the house. I got the little girl right here. I need $30,000.
3:23 Speaker 07 So you want $30,000 to keep from killing the girl?
3:27 Speaker 06 Yeah.
3:33 Speaker 05 Man, this is a multi-million dollar gated neighborhood. Who is down here shooting people in this house, especially shooting children?
3:45 Speaker 04 As Ben and his team arrive at the scene, 15 officers are scattered across a well-manicured lawn, guns loaded and aimed at a large, ornate house.
3:56 Speaker 05 Everybody's there. All of our fire department, EMS people are there staging right down the street here in case something happens. We got a three or four man quick reaction team sitting on the side with a shield, couple rifles staged up on the corner of the house. We're also setting up medical stuff as well. How many ambulances you have on staff? We're in an evac zone. We're probably gonna need a rescue helicopter. We need to go ahead and plot out a place for a landing zone for this. When I say it's chaos, it's literally chaos.
4:24 Speaker 05 Our patrol guys on a loudspeaker trying to make contact with somebody on the inside, not getting anything, trying to get a phone number, call to the house.
4:33 Speaker 04 That doesn't get a response either.
4:37 Speaker 04 There's something Ben can't put his finger on. A cop's hunch honed after years on the beat. A feeling, deep in his gut.
4:47 Speaker 05 Something's not adding up here. I don't know what it is. There's something that's not right with this.
4:53 Speaker 04 After multiple attempts to contact the house with no response, Ben gives the nod to the SWAT team to enter the house.
5:03 Speaker 04 Ben's gripping his radio tightly as the SWAT team clear each floor of the upscale home. He's worked homicide cases before, so he knows what kind of gruesome updates to expect from a scene with multiple murders.
5:17 Speaker 05 Shell casings on the floor, blood splatter on the wall. But none of that was there.
5:23 Speaker 04 No bullet casings, no blood, no body, never mind three.
5:29 Speaker 05 This is, this is odd.
5:32 Speaker 04 Ben's gut stirs again. What the fuck is happening here? A message comes through from the SWAT team. They found people during their sweep, alive.
5:44 Speaker 05 There were housekeepers inside the house. They were scared to death.
5:52 Speaker 04 The housekeepers are each carrying a trembling, terrified child.
5:56 Speaker 05 They come out, both the children, naked, wrapped up in towels, which explained why they were nowhere near their phones. They couldn't hear anything. They were in the bathtub bathing the children. And of course, we're immediately going into debrief with them. It's like, who's in the home? Who else is in the home? Is anybody hurt? They're in shock, so they're not really given great information. They're finally like, it's just us. It's just the kids. No one else is in the home.
6:24 Speaker 04 The penny drops like a bomb.
6:28 Speaker 05 All right, we've been had. This is bullshit.
6:34 Speaker 04 From Sony Music Entertainment and Novel, this is You Are Next. I'm Lee Alexander.
7:03 Speaker 04 This is episode two, "Madder Than a Wet Hen."
7:15 Speaker 05 I was born in Tacloban, Georgia, which is up in far northeast Georgia. We lived on top of a mountain. He could crawl up on the roof of the house. I could see all the mountains and stuff. On a good, clear day, you could see South Carolina, North Carolina, and Tennessee.
7:32 Speaker 04 Ben Finley is a country boy through and through. He was born in his beloved Georgia in 1966.
7:39 Speaker 05 I know that sounds like a long time ago, doesn't it? It's like, damn, I saw a movie the other day from 1966. It's black and white.
7:48 Speaker 04 When he's about 15 years old, Ben's parents get divorced, and like any kid his age, he kind of spins out about it.
7:56 Speaker 05 All of a sudden, my dad's not there. I was kind of gaffing off at school and not doing what I was supposed to do, and my grades got bad. So the next thing I know, my dad had me yanked out of there, and I went to military school. That was a sobering experience. In retrospect, looking back, that was probably the best thing in the world ever happened to me. I wasn't a fan of it at the time, but I look back at it now and go, had that not happened, I don't know what my life path would have been.
8:31 Speaker 04 One day, a pair of Marines visit Ben's new school. They leave a hell of an impression on him.
8:36 Speaker 05 Wearing their dress blues, standing there in front of me, and I was like, well, I gotta have some of that, so. I did that, signed up. Say what you want. Whatever branch of service you're in, all these guys have to tell you too, man. The Marine Corps, no one else has a uniform like ours. I'm biased, but I'm just telling you, they don't look that good in a uniform as we do.
8:57 Speaker 04 I've seen a picture of Ben from his old Marine days. The navy blue uniform with red trim, a brilliant white hat on top of his head. He's like a walking American flag with added shiny gold buttons. It suits him, but Ben's always loved a uniform. What made you want to become a police officer? Was that something that started in your childhood?
9:20 Speaker 05 I remember growing up, we'd see, you know, the police officers and deputy sheriffs and state troopers, they'd be in town. Some of my friends' fathers were one. When I was small, my dad worked for the sheriff's office in our county and the city police department for a while. I thought it was pretty cool.
9:35 Speaker 04 After stints in Hong Kong, the Philippines, Japan, and more, Ben retires from the Marines. In 2008, he starts working for the Johns Creek Police Department as a detective sergeant. In 2014, Johns Creek is considered one of the safest cities in the whole of Georgia, so its police department is on the smaller side. And while its officers investigate all kinds of crimes, a mysterious hoax call about a triple murder is not exactly in their wheelhouse.
10:08 Speaker 05 I've never worked one like that. No one at our department's ever worked one like that. Turned around, looked at my guys, I'm like, you got any idea how to start this?
10:15 Speaker 04 Thankfully, there's no grisly scene for Ben to contend with, but he's still got both hands full trying to bring a bit of order to all this chaos.
10:25 Speaker 05 We're trying to move neighbors out of their homes because they're coming out, you know, being the old looky-loos. Is there anything I need to know? Well, yeah, if 17 cops in your neighborhood, rifles out pulling your neighbor's house, it's probably a good indication you need to go out the back door and go somewhere else and not stand on the front porch with your French Bulldog and ask a bunch of stupid questions.
10:44 Speaker 04 Ben's busy trying to figure out his next move while local and national media are hovering overhead, searching for a scoop.
10:51 Speaker 05 Channel 2, Channel 5, Channel 11 at the time, were offline or helicopters around in circles. News Chopper 2 captured Johns Creek Police and firefighters.
11:00 Speaker 04 Racing to the upscale gated community in North Fulton County, officers have received the call. Word eventually makes its way to the children's parents.
11:08 Speaker 05 Mom hears about it through her friends calling her, saying, "Oh, my God, your home is on TV." She sees it, freaks out, just distraught, thinking her family's been killed.
11:17 Speaker 04 The mother races to the scene. Bursting out of her car, she pushes through the remaining crowd of cops in her front yard, screaming after her children.
11:26 Speaker 05 She's like, "Where are they? Where are they?" And we're like, "Look, the kids are fine." They were sitting in the backseat of the fire chief's Tahoe. So we opened up the door, and both the ladies that are the caretakers of them are sitting there with them, and they're wrapped up in, you know, these blankets. And she stared at them for a minute, like she was in disbelief. And then finally, you know, she breaks down, starts crying, hugging them, and she's like, "Oh, my God, oh, my God." Then she's like, "Why are they naked?" And I was like, "Well, they were evidently in the bathtub when we showed up."
11:58 Speaker 04 Dad isn't too far behind.
12:03 Speaker 05 If you've ever been to Atlanta Airport, CNN plays on every TV in there. So they got a live shot in there of the house, Johns Creek, home invasion, reported people shot. Well, Dad had just landed at Hartsfield-Jackson Airport, and is walking through the airport and looks up and was like, "That's my effing house." He's trying to call home, of course, no one's answering. So he's thinking the worst, too, so he gets to his car.
12:31 Speaker 05 And I'm sure he violated the ever-traffic law knowing the man coming from the airport to his home.
12:37 Speaker 04 This whole thing might have been a sick hoax. But as those parents sped down the highway, their hands gripping the steering wheel, their hearts pounding out of their chest, the fear that their children or their spouse were brutally murdered, that their life as they knew it was ripped away from them, was all too real.
12:57 Speaker 05 It literally changed their lives overnight and changed their lives forever. Because now they look at everything in their life through a completely different lens of what they looked at it the week before. They were just a family. He's a business owner. Wife's an attorney. They got two small children. They're doing very well in life. And all of a sudden now, for whatever reason, somebody's targeting him and his family. And as a dad, I could see his frustration. I don't know what's going on. I don't know who's after me. Why are they after me?
13:35 Speaker 04 The family aren't the only ones asking questions. Ben's boss, Chief Ed Densmore, is, to use a good old country phrase, madder than a wet hen. For city folks, that means he's pissed. His entire department has had their time and thousands of dollars of resources wasted in front of the national media. He wants answers.
13:59 Speaker 05 He turned around and looked at me. And he goes, "I want you to find out who did this. Now."
14:23 Speaker 04 For the first few days of Sergeant Ben Finley's investigation, he doesn't make a lot of headway. He can't figure out why someone would target a perfect, all-American family out of the blue. Every lead he follows takes him to one dead end after another. He's desperately searching for something that might spark a new hunch, a new thread he can grab hold of and pull.
14:47 Speaker 05 And then, of course, your chief's walking by your office every morning. "Where we at? What do you got?" "Chief, I'm right here, and I don't have a damn thing."
14:55 Speaker 04 Ben sits down with his team to hash it all out from the start.
14:59 Speaker 05 "All right. We received a phone call on this date and this time to the Alpharetta Police Department, 911 Center." And they were like, "No, didn't come through 911 Center." And I said, "Well, where did it come through?" They said it went through Records Department on the admin line.
15:17 Speaker 05 Huh.
17:19 Speaker 04 V O I P stands for Voice Over Internet Protocol. Basically, it's a virtual phone number that uses the internet to make calls. They're pretty much everywhere nowadays, like WhatsApp, FaceTime, or Google Voice calls. Back in 2014, though, they're not as common. But it's what Ben learns next that finally blows the case wide open. Searching for some background info, he calls and asks the father how long he and his family have lived in the house.
17:48 Speaker 06 Man, we've lived here less than a year.
17:50 Speaker 05 Okay. Who lived here before you?
17:53 Speaker 06 I don't know. I don't know what he was. Some kid. He was some kind of YouTube star, did like rapping or something on YouTube. He's also a huge gamer.
18:02 Speaker 05 And I went, "Oh. Okay."
18:08 Speaker 04 Something starts to stir in Ben's memory.
18:11 Speaker 05 We had law enforcement bulletins, intelligence briefings to get sent out if there's something going on. And there had been these things popping up about swatting.
18:23 Speaker 04 These bulletins described a growing trend across the USA linked to the online gaming community, and a rise in hoax calls designed to elicit a SWAT team response.
18:33 Speaker 05 You'd get a brief or two about that every now and then. And I think it first started out in Los Angeles.
18:39 Speaker 04 Of course, this kind of crazy online shit might happen out there in the tech-saturated big cities. Never in a million years did Ben think it would happen in his town. Plus, this cookie-cutter family just didn't fit the profile of the victims in these swatting bulletins. The parents were not online figures, and the kids were too young. But if someone had tried to target the previous residents where they thought a YouTube gamer still lived, well, then that starts to make a lot more sense. Ben turns to his team.
19:13 Speaker 05 I said, "This is gonna be a swatting."
19:20 Speaker 04 Ben feels a small pang of self-doubt. He's never worked a swatting case. He's not a gamer. He's used to hunting down criminals in the real world, not through a maze of screens and digital phone numbers. But he also feels energized. It took him a few days, sure, but now he's finally on the right track. Plus, he's a former Marine. He's not the kind of guy who's afraid of a challenge, no matter how daunting it might seem.
19:50 Speaker 05 We never quit, no matter what. And that's one thing you gotta have in law enforcement. You can't have a, well, this is too tough. I give up mentality. You have to figure out what I can do to win.
20:00 Speaker 04 Ben starts digging deeper into the VOIP number he's discovered.
20:05 Speaker 05 I realized it was a Skype number. Now, what do I do? You gotta call Skype and find out what's going on with them. They're based out of Luxembourg. And I was like, well, this is wonderful. I'm gonna try to subpoena from a country that I never even heard of.
20:20 Speaker 04 Luxembourg, which, if you're curious, is in the middle of France, Belgium, and Germany, is just the start of Ben's worldwide digital tour.
20:30 Speaker 05 This number led me over to a VOIP company in Amsterdam. The next one sent me down to the coast of Africa. And I had another one go up into Russia. I tried to email the guy and get some information. And he didn't understand me. And he's like telling me that I needed to call him. I've never called Russia. How do you call Russia? I dialed it up, and this guy answers his phone.
20:56 Speaker 06 What do you need?
20:57 Speaker 05 And I said, this is what I need.
20:59 Speaker 06 I keep note records of such. I am not required to.
21:03 Speaker 05 Okay. I had to skip over to like two or three other countries and then finally brought me back stateside here to some other companies here. Basically, I got a trip around the world, and I got to talk to a Russian guy, which, again, I thought was pretty hilarious.
21:23 Speaker 04 Ben might have enjoyed his journey around the world in 80 calls, but it ultimately doesn't get him further along in his case. He's certain he's looking at a swatting with the house's old resident as the real target, but he still hasn't found the culprit who called in the hoax. What's more, the call could have come from anywhere in the United States, from anywhere or anyone in the world.
21:48 Speaker 04 Ben starts mulling over his next move, but he barely gets a chance to catch his breath.
21:55 Speaker 05 We had another call at the same residence a few days later.
21:58 Speaker 04 Another swatting attempt from a different caller.
22:02 Speaker 07 Thank you for holding. How can I help you?
22:04 Speaker 06 I'm currently at one of my old buddy's houses that stole like 10 grand from me. And what I want you to do is send a SWAT team, a bomb squad, and a helicopter.
22:11 Speaker 07 What address are we talking about, sir?
22:15 Speaker 06 Carly Lane, Alpharetta.
22:18 Speaker 07 It's Feller Street, Dave. I don't know it.
22:19 Speaker 06 C-A-R-L-I-S-L-E.
22:22 Speaker 07 Oh, Carly Lane. Gotcha. Is that in Don's Creek, sir?
22:27 Speaker 06 That's in Alpharetta. Okay, and I have four-
22:31 Speaker 07 What is the phone number you're calling me from?
22:33 Speaker 06 No, shut up. I have four B-118 thermobaric napalm bombs.
22:40 Speaker 06 Now I have them all set on a timer. They go off in exactly 30 minutes. Okay, and I want a SWAT team, a bomb squad, and a helicopter here. And if I see any police cruisers, I'm killing everyone in the house and exploding all the bombs early. Okay? You understand that?
22:53 Speaker 07 Okay.
22:54 Speaker 06 Okay, thank you. Bye.
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23:28 Speaker 01 Still haven't started? Hey, better late than ever. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply. Kayak searches and compares hundreds of travel sites. But unless I repeat the word kayak, Kayak thinks you won't remember that. So Kayak asked me to say kayak as many times as possible. Kayak. Kayak. Kayak. Kayak, kayak. Kayak. Kai. Ooh. Ak. Kai, Kai, Kai, Kai, kayak. Kayak, kayak, kayak. Search, compare, and save on your trip. Kayak, got that right.
24:19 Speaker 04 This new swatting attempt on the Johns Creek home comes in on the 25th of January. That's just nine days after the first call. But the police don't fall for the same trick twice.
24:31 Speaker 05 They say, "I've got, you know, a bee napalm bomb and blah, blah." Okay, okay, buddy. Yeah, you have that about like I've got a thumb growing out of my forehead right now. You don't have any of that.
24:44 Speaker 04 Given that this is the second time in less than two weeks the same house has been targeted, the cops still need to check in on the family. So they send a single officer to check everything is okay while Ben gives them the news.
24:58 Speaker 05 I called Mom and Dad. Hey.
25:01 Speaker 06 What's going on? Has there been another call?
25:03 Speaker 05 Yes.
25:04 Speaker 06 Why is this happening to me and my family?
25:07 Speaker 05 I have no freaking idea, man. I don't know, but I promise you, I'm gonna find out who did this.
25:13 Speaker 05 And his wife was like...
25:14 Speaker 06 Well, that's a mighty bold claim.
25:17 Speaker 05 Yeah, that thought to myself, maybe I shouldn't have said that.
25:23 Speaker 04 The family aren't the only people Ben owes answers to. His police chief is still breathing down his neck. And if Ben thought his boss was pissed when the first swatting call came through, it was nothing compared to the second.
25:36 Speaker 05 He goes, "I don't know what's going on. I don't know who's doing this. I don't know why they're doing it. If I got one, I want to know who it is. I want somebody's tail in jail."
25:46 Speaker 04 As the weeks go by, Ben's finally making good on his promise to the family and his boss. He finds the first swatter by tracing the January 16th call back to a teenager in a small New York town. But this teenager comes from a wealthy family with enough resources to stop Ben's investigation in its tracks.
26:07 Speaker 05 So that hits the back burner. It goes cold. I'm simultaneously working this other thing.
26:13 Speaker 04 The January 25th caller, the wannabe napalm bomber. Ben's determined he's not going to be defeated a second time.
26:21 Speaker 05 Doing the same exact thing that I did before.
26:24 Speaker 04 Ben subpoenas call records from the past 30 days for the second number. He's looking for any connection between that and the teenager from New York that proves they were working together.
26:34 Speaker 05 I was thinking they were both connected. And I was trying to do my evidence and I was trying to shove it together and go, "Yeah, these are connected. These are connected."
26:42 Speaker 04 The call logs come through a few weeks later, and it seems like this second caller has been busy.
26:48 Speaker 05 I had no idea how much information I was about to get back on a 30-day call log from Skype. Truckload of stuff. So I started going through it.
27:02 Speaker 04 Ben spends hours looking at line after line, trying to spot any interaction between the first and second callers. But he can't find a single call, nothing to link the two swattings.
27:15 Speaker 05 And then it finally comes to me. I'm like, "These two are not connected." I got two different guys that I'm tracking at the same time. Got nothing to do with each other. As far as I know, they don't know each other.
27:27 Speaker 04 The realization that these two hoax calls aren't linked changes Ben's whole perspective again. The first swatting had been all over the news. If this second call wasn't part of a conspiracy, maybe it was a copycat. And if there's already one copycat, what's to stop there from being more? How many swatters could he be up against here? Ben can't shake the nagging feeling he's outnumbered, so decides to call in some unorthodox backup.
28:02 Speaker 05 We had three high schools in our city down there, and we had some very intelligent students that work in several of the computer classes they have down there. So I spoke to one of the teachers. I said, "Hey, do you ever discuss gaming and all that?" He goes, "Oh, yeah, man. These kids love that stuff." And I said, "I have a question about an investigation I'm doing. Do you think they'd be, you know, willing to talk to me?" He called me back next day. He said, "I got three of them sitting right here. They love to talk about this stuff." So I drove down to high school, and I said, "Guys, tell me what I'm looking at here."
28:30 Speaker 04 The first thing his new teenage deputies let Ben know is just how much of a challenge it can be to unveil these swatters' true identities.
28:40 Speaker 05 They know that if they cloak themselves by enough different firewalls and VPNs and, you know, spoofing apps and multiple VoIP numbers, they have anonymity behind the screen. To me and you, it sounds like that's a big deal to do this. They can route themselves through nine different countries in about 10 seconds.
28:58 Speaker 04 Thinking back to his digital trip to Russia via Luxembourg, Ben knows the kids are right.
29:05 Speaker 05 That's when they began to tell me about the absolute psychopaths that are out here in the gaming world. Some of them are absolutely ruthless and relentless, and they told me that you have to be very careful not to do anything to anger or provoke these people, because they will do everything they can to destroy you.
29:32 Speaker 04 Back at the Johns Creek Station, an overwhelmed Ben is at his desk, the high schooler's warnings still echoing in his ears.
29:42 Speaker 04 He's looking at the towering stack of call logs on his desk. It makes War and Peace look like a pamphlet. With a heavy sigh, he picks up the first page and starts again.
29:53 Speaker 05 Looking at some of the numbers, and then I ran across one for Disneyland.
29:59 Speaker 04 A call made on the same day as the second Johns Creek swatting attempt, on January 25, 2014.
30:07 Speaker 05 And I was like, surely this guy didn't do that.
30:10 Speaker 04 On the next episode of You Are Next, Ben finds out exactly what happened at Disneyland. He said, "There's a bomb at Space Mountain."
30:25 Speaker 04 And then discovers that not only is his perp on a swatting rampage...
30:31 Speaker 05 Did this guy call every one of these places?
30:33 Speaker 04 He's targeting young women and extorting them.
30:36 Speaker 05 I find out what an absolute animal this guy is. He would unleash hell upon them.
30:58 Speaker 04 This is You Are Next, an original production of Sony Music Entertainment and Novel, hosted by me, Lee Alexander. Lee Meyer is our senior producer. Verdi De Cala is our assistant producer. Sandra Schmueli is our editor. Production management from Cherie Houston, Joe Savage, and Charlotte Wolfe. For Novel, our executive producer is Max O'Brien. From Sony Music Entertainment, our executive producers are Catherine St. Louis and Jonathan Hirsch. Story development by Nell Gray Andrews, Willard Foxton, and Selena Metta, who is director of development for Novel. Special thanks to Carolyn Sher Levin at Miller-Korsenick Raymond LLP,
31:40 Speaker 04 and to Ford Collier, who performed the woodwind for our theme music. And a big thanks to the whole Sony Music Entertainment team.
31:56 Speaker 04 I'm Sarah Kallen. This season of ID's Who Killed Angel Harris investigates the 2011 unsolved murder of a 31-year-old woman in Gainesville, Florida. It was definitely shocking.
32:10 Speaker 03 Either it's a bullet hitting a bullet, or there's a lot of really strong coincidences here.
32:15 Speaker 04 More likely than not, this is a serial killer. Listen to Who Killed Angel Harris wherever you get your podcasts.
Previous U R NEXT | 1. An “Internet Terrorist” Next U R NEXT | 3. Unprisonable. Untouchable. Page updated October 30, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated