Pod Insights The Bill Simmons Podcast Tiger’s Crisis, an NBA Mini-Mailbag, the Confusing Knicks, 'Survivor 50,' and the Yucky Red Sox | With Joe House, Jason Concepcion, and Bill’s Dad About this episode The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Joe House to discuss the Tiger Woods situation before diving into the mailbag to answer some questions from the listeners (2:53). Then, Jason Concepcion hops on to talk about the Knicks heading into the playoffs and ‘Survivor 50’ (01:08:11). Finally, Bill’s dad checks in to talk Boston sports and television shows (01:51:35).
Host: Bill Simmons
Guests: Joe House, Jason Concepcion, and Bill’s dad
Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo
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Transcript 27,149 words · 8 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Bill Simmons? This episode is brought to you by Sony Pictures Classics. A perfect crime film, says the Daily Beast. John Torturo gives a career best performance. Don't miss the acclaimed new thriller, The Only Living Pickpocket in New York. Torturo stars as an aging master pickpocket, whose latest score puts him in the crosshairs of a ruthless crime family. It's also starring Giancarlo Esposito, Tatiana Maslany, Will Price, and our guy, Steve Buscemi. See the film that the LA Times calls instantly classic, The Only Living Pickpocket in New York, now playing in theaters nationwide.
0:41 Bill Simmons? The Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by FanDuel. We're also brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network. I put up new rewatchables on Monday. It was the last episode of CR Month. We did LA Confidential. Next week's going to be Eddie and the Cruisers. The definition of a one for us, but it's an awesome movie. Please go find it if you haven't seen it. If you like really good movies with a music theme, I would highly recommend it. We have an action-packed podcast coming up momentarily. We're going to talk to Joe House about Tiger Woods. We're going to talk about a bunch of NBA stuff and I'm going to do, I had a lot of great mailbag questions, so I need somebody to bounce them off. So House and I covered a lot of stuff there. Old friend Jason Gattuso came on to talk about the New York Knicks. What are, what are we seeing with this team heading toward the playoffs?
1:25 Bill Simmons? Why is everybody so lukewarm? What's going on here? And then we talked about Survivor 50 for a while, which I wasn't totally expecting, but I had a great time doing it. You can listen to this podcast. It's called Wait a Second. We launched it, I think, eight, nine weeks ago and it's really, really good. And then last but not least, my dad, the Red Sox are winning five. The Celtics, Tatum's back, Patriots have a draft coming. He just wanted to come on. So what am I going to do? I had to have him on. He was making me feel guilty, but I still really want to talk to him about the Celtics. So that's what we got. I'm taking a risk by finishing this podcast on a Thursday afternoon. There's an OKC Lakers game tonight and I'm really hoping that, like Luca doesn't score like 75 points against Oklahoma City or something.
2:11 Bill Simmons? I'm going to be really mad if I didn't wait until after this game. If it turns out to be great, we'll find out. Maybe it won't be great. Maybe OKC would just kill the Lakers. I hope that's what happens, actually. Anyway, that's all coming up next. We're going to take a break, Pearl Jam, and then Joe House.
2:28 Bill Simmons? The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA postseason is here and FanDuel knows the only thing better than watching your favorite team win is winning along with them. FanDuel, the best place to bet the teams, players, and plays during their playoff run. Build a same game parlay or try live betting and jump in after tip off. Don't forget with FanDuel, you get paid instantly when you win. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app now and play your game. 21 plus select states or 18 plus DC, Kentucky, Wyoming. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat. Connecticut.
3:29 Bill Simmons? All right, Joe House is here. You can hear him on Fairway Roland and the Ringer Gambling Show. He was coming on my podcast all the time during football season as we struggled through our picks. I'm already, talk about nobody believes in us, talk about chip on my shoulder. I am so ready for this next football season. I'm going to be possessed this summer. Can't wait. You talked about Tiger on your podcast. We never talked about it here and it seems like now he's just gone. Like he's out of the Ryder Cup. He's going to be working on all his stuff. This is such a sad story. How surprised were you on a scale of one to 10 that this even happened?
4:07 Speaker 01 Surprised? I would say a solid eight because there hadn't been news reports about.
4:18 Speaker 01 You know, questions raised, he was carrying an extremely large load in terms of participation in the redirection of the tour. You know, he's been a crucial element of, and a person in Rolap's ear for how the tour might refashion itself.
4:39 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
4:39 Speaker 01 He has been a super active participant in the TGL and the viability of that property really depends on him. And he, as he was getting physically stronger, was making overtures towards participating on the Champions Tour. And then it was revealed that he was training with an eye towards participating in the Senior US Open. So that's, that's a large load of, of stuff on his plate. And there weren't news stories saying, you know, all of this is going on, but we see Tiger and he's, you know, he's in public appearances looking less than lucid or in public appearances looking like he might be out of it. And there
5:21 Speaker 01 had been in the past, some of those observations made, but this was a full workload, full plate staring us in the face. And so the idea of him, it also is not like public information, whether or not he's driving his own car. It would have been my serious hope that he was mostly not driving his own car after the accident in California. So I was surprised.
5:51 Bill Simmons? I was surprised too, but I think the guy, I think his body is just so broken. And I was trying to think of it from his perspective because you always think like, why would somebody jeopardize, you know, if it's an addiction, that's, that's its own set of things. But all the stuff that's just happened to his body ever since like his legs broke down in the 2000s, right?
6:14 Bill Simmons? Playing the, playing the US Open with a shattered knee, basically. Then he has, the back starts going on him because he put on too much weight. Then on top of it, you know, he has the car accident. He basically has like a bionic tibia. You know, um, I think his knees are shot. I think his back's fucked up and he has a fucked up leg. And we noticed it when we would go to the Masters and we would watch him walk around. You could tell when somebody is like, not a hundred percent, just day to day, just standing. He just seemed like he was really uncomfortable and that, so I can't say I was that surprised, but I was surprised by the timing because it was like, we were even talking, is he going to be at the Masters? Is he just gonna, just gonna show up out of nowhere?
6:57 Speaker 01 Because, well, no, not out of nowhere. He himself was permitting that question. The question was being posed to him, you know, it was asked at Riviera at the tournament that, that he's the host of. How does it look? How are you forecasting this? And he was, he said on television to Jim Nance, if I can go, I'm gonna go. I'm trying, I'm trying to get my body ready. And the question I have, and I asked this, you know, Nathan and I discussed this on the Fairway Roland podcast. Did the, the, the drug use, did the opioids, was there an elevated, was that all part and parcel of him trying to get himself ready? Where he previously up to this point where, you know, he was physically unable to contemplate
7:41 Speaker 01 trying to do anything competitive golf wise. Now that he's in ramp up mode, does that mean the pain meds need to be elevated? And did that just sort of change the overall risk paradigm? Like, oh, you know, I'm going to practice. That means I have to take the pain meds. And whatever that cocktail is, it does have this, uh, you know, narcotic kind of effect. And that, that narcotic effect is the thing that lets him go practice. But he shouldn't be driving a car, but he was driving a car and that's what, what happened. I wondered if, you know, maybe, maybe the opioids haven't been part of the picture up until this point.
8:16 Bill Simmons? Or he was pushing his body to come back and his body wasn't handling it correctly. So he starts helping this stuff. Who knows what happened?
8:24 Speaker 01 Right.
8:25 Bill Simmons? It's crazy, though, and it just, it was making me think like Kanye is playing in LA this weekend, right? And he's playing on Friday and he's a guy for completely different reasons, went sideways, but was also a little like Tiger and a little like some of these other people we have that fly pretty close to the sun, that have true greatness. And it got, like, the Michael Jackson movie came out this week. That's another one. You could, we could argue about different reasons for that one, too. But the point is, he was the single most famous person of our childhood. He was our version of Elvis, and he went completely sideways over the next 10, 12 years. And sometimes I wonder about, you know, that level of fame and greatness, it seems like it's really hard for a lot of
9:08 Bill Simmons? people to handle. The sustainability of it, like what it feels like to be that dominant, beloved, that, you know, I don't think we think about that piece of it enough.
9:19 Speaker 01 That's the unique element of golf. I mean, you just mentioned two entertainers, and entertainers can have careers into their early 70s, mid 70s, up to 80. Hold, it's Mick Jagger now, you know?
9:30 Bill Simmons? Right, 85.
9:31 Speaker 01 Yeah, and there's still whatever tours they're doing. Golfer can compete, I mean, Tiger won in 2019, won the Masters in 2019. You know, Jack won a Masters when he was 46. Phil Mickelson won the PGA Championship over the age of 50. Tiger just turned 50. So if you're, if you have the, the physical wherewithal, then you, you can do it. And there is the incentive to try and keep it going. And nobody's more incented than Tiger. He is, you know, the, the entire sport, modern golf, you know, owes it everything to Tiger, the arrival of Tiger in 1997.
10:09 Bill Simmons? Yeah, and it's golf, and you, there's kind of no ceiling on golf with athletes, with professional team athletes, there's always a ceiling. Even for LeBron, he probably sees the ceiling coming at some point. It, it makes me appreciate LeBron even more, like, the career he's had and how little went wrong. And the stuff we nitpicked on as all, like, stupid shit, right? But for the most part, like, he really handled his business. When you think, like, just being like a child prodigy, basically, all the way through, it's about as good as it's gonna go. I don't know if- Anyone's doing better than that.
10:42 Speaker 01 In terms of him physically, or do you mean in terms of him as a potential role model?
10:46 Bill Simmons? I'm saying every piece of it.
10:47 Speaker 01 He really never got sideways in terms of life, right?
10:51 Bill Simmons? Never.
10:51 Speaker 01 Never really.
10:52 Bill Simmons? Off the court, on the court, he somehow stayed healthy the entire time. He never really unraveled in any way, other than the decision, which we, which made us all mad. But really like he switched teams, whatever.
11:06 Speaker 01 In the grand scheme of things, yeah.
11:07 Bill Simmons? But yeah.
11:07 Speaker 01 That's his biggest misstep.
11:09 Bill Simmons? This is something Eddie Johnson, who, you know, our friend who, who hosts that Eddie and Terminy show. He's always said like, we're never going to see this part again. Like somebody handle their business this well, just from start to finish, just be an adult and a role model. And, you know, he does a million things that drive us crazy, but they're all like meaningless, stupid things.
11:29 Speaker 01 It is a good parallel though, because he did change the industry. I mean, he's single-handedly ushered in the shorter contract, you know, the player empowerment era that we quibble with and that we complain about. But LeBron was the, the driving force behind all of that. The leverage, recognizing the leverage that the, the players have and he uniquely. And Tiger also kind of occupies that same space. One of the roles that Tiger was playing in trying to, you know, provide direction to the, to the PGA tour and Brian Rollap, was really the voice of, of the, of the players. He was, you know, there's no union, they're not organized, but I really was sort of likening him to the head of the players' union. If one existed, because he's the most respected voice in the room on behalf of, of the players.
12:14 Speaker 01 It's just a, an absolute, you know, ton of responsibility. And he clearly couldn't do all the things that he was trying to do. And this is the price he would pay.
12:24 Bill Simmons? Who's that now, Rory?
12:27 Speaker 01 Well, Rory doesn't carry the same sway as Tiger in the room.
12:32 Bill Simmons? But somebody's going to care, fill the vacuum. Maybe nobody does. Maybe it's impossible.
12:35 Speaker 01 There are guys, so Rory was somewhat marginalized.
12:39 Bill Simmons? Mark Hubbard?
12:41 Speaker 01 Nominate, I O nominate homeless hubs. Adam Scott has been, he, he might be, he's 45 years old. He's still playing outstanding golf. We're going to talk about him in the context of some masters cards as this gets going next week. Very excited for that, but he, he might be the eminence in, in the room in, in Tiger's absence.
13:01 Bill Simmons? Yeah, we got masters. Holy shit, we're not going this year.
13:06 Speaker 01 I mean, what do you think I'm doing here?
13:07 Bill Simmons? I know.
13:08 Speaker 01 We, we got it. We'll do our best.
13:11 Bill Simmons? So fairway Roland, you're going to have all your picks?
13:14 Speaker 01 Oh yeah. Sunday night with Justin Ray, that'll be up overnight for an early preview. Tuesday, Nate and I will get on and kind of finalize the card based on what we're hearing on the grounds and some additional information, what we see.
13:26 Bill Simmons? Who's playing the best right now? Like what, what golfers?
13:29 Speaker 01 Amazing question. Amazing question. The answer is kind of nobody. That's, that's what makes this so fascinating. Rory's got a back problem and it hurt him in, in his, uh, performance at the players championship. Colin Morikawa had been playing awesome. He also has a back problem. He just withdrew from, um, the San Antonio golf tournament where they're playing this week and he, he may not play in the masters. Scottie Scheffler, I don't, I haven't checked the news today. He's, he's due to have his second child any minute now. And again, I, I keep making this joke. Can somebody give that man a calendar? Like you know, when the masters is count nine backwards, count nine months backwards.
14:13 Speaker 01 It's okay to have a kid in, in March. That would be fine. Um, Scheffler, um, won early in the season and then had some top fives, but you know, not up to his own standard. And so I'm going down a little Bryson DeChambeau is coming in, having won two consecutive events on the live.
14:31 Bill Simmons? Beefy Bryson back.
14:32 Speaker 01 Bryson, yeah. Um, he's got something going on. He was crying at his, uh, um, the press conference immediately after the second tournament that he won in reference, a personal issue that, that he's dealing with.
14:44 Bill Simmons? Oh no.
14:45 Speaker 01 Uh, John Rahm has won on live also this, this year, calendar 2026. So feels really wide open. That's the thing that makes this masters really compelling.
14:55 Bill Simmons? Well, the NBA also feels really wide open. We're going to do some bat, some mailbag questions. I have you on as a, I like to do the mailbags, but have a live body. I haven't sent you any of these.
15:05 Speaker 01 I'm, I'm so happy. This is my favorite thing.
15:07 Bill Simmons? So. I've gotten a bunch of SGA questions. And relatively timely because the MVP, the odds have dropped. We've talked about it a bunch on our threads and stuff. But I picked two that kind of captured the spirit of the kind of questions I'm getting. One is from Casey from Long Island. I don't understand your insistence on associating SGA with the all time great guards this early in his prime. Multiple times you compared what he's doing to Jordan and Kobe. He's been an elite player for four seasons. It seems like you're prioritizing his peak rather than the sustained excellence of the all time greats. If he's still doing this in the 2031 32 season,
15:47 Bill Simmons? then we could start discussing it. Until then, as my favorite podcaster would say, let's drink some settle down juice. That's one. And then the other one's from Matt in New Zealand. This is the other variation of this. In your heart of hearts, do you genuinely like watching SGA play basketball? Whenever I hear sports media people talk about it and they say he's so skilled, what he's doing so unprecedented. Even though his game is kind of built on not even really playing the game properly because he plays a certain kind of foul baiting, almost anti basketball, which we hated when Harden did in Houston. I believe Adam Silver and the players are like shares to blame for the league encouraging this stuff. They should be held accountable if anything can change. I don't agree with that second email, but just, just both of those.
16:32 Bill Simmons? I do feel like a lot of people feel this way. So what's your take?
16:37 Speaker 01 I think the first email has some, some good points in it.
16:43 Bill Simmons? I agree with you. It actually made me think like, yeah, maybe I should not, maybe not a 20 ounce glass of settle down juice, but maybe like an eight ounce glass. Let's let them win back to back titles before we bring MJ and Kobe and Jerry West into this.
16:56 Speaker 01 And yet, you know, what were the conversations? I, we should go back and see if we can tap into it. You probably wrote some columns. When Steve Nash went back to back MVPs, how are we talking about Steve Nash and what his career trajectory might look like? He, he, he didn't even win the chip, you know?
17:14 Bill Simmons? We were upset that he won the first two MVPs. I actually thought he should have gotten the third one, but. Yeah. Cause I, I think the thing to me with SGA is this is now a presidential term that he's done this. This is four years of excellence. Like my dad's coming on later and he said SGA was the best player he saw this year and he's been going all the Celtic games. So that matters, but I guess the thing that I said when I was talking to Zach about it is this is four first teams in a row. This is 31 plus a game for four years in a row. This could be back to back MVPs, back to back titles. This four year run matches any other guard, anything really anyone's done, except for maybe MJ, because he got the three titles.
17:55 Bill Simmons? And I think that's valid to say that the, so yeah, okay. If you need maybe two, three more years to really move in there.
18:03 Speaker 01 Yeah, they, they don't, folks don't want us to be invoking the all time greats yet, but he's certainly on a path where if he continues at this level, it is sustained excellence. That's a great observation. That's what we're looking for out of him. But another MVP, a back to back MVP, plus we're, we anticipate them. They have the best odds. They have the best odds, right? We're anticipating them at least getting to the Western Conference Finals and then we'll see what happens from there.
18:31 Bill Simmons? There's some stuff where people, because the stats are inflated, like right? This is, we're in the steroids era for basketball, like what, in baseball, not people doing steroids, but just the numbers are out of whack compared to what we've had in the past. So a guard averaging 31 a game this season is the equivalent of probably 27, 28 a game in the 90s. And I, I see that point. Shay is averaging, first of all, 32 a game, but 31 and a half, whatever, but he's shooting 55%.
19:01 Speaker 01 Yeah.
19:02 Bill Simmons? And if you're going to like disparage some, and I haven't even decided who I'm voting for yet, but you know, he has the best crunch time stats across the board. He's scored the most points. He's taken the most shots. He has the most free throw attempts and he's shooting like 52% in these games. And eye test wise, he's unstoppable. And to me that matters more than any part of the case. He's on the best team and he's the best guy at the end of these games. So.
19:29 Speaker 01 And incredible, especially over the last, what is it 10, 12 games, some just outrageous fourth quarter numbers, right?
19:36 Bill Simmons? Well, so that leads to, I want to go back to Shay, but that leads to an email from Trevor V. You're in this email. You and House both hammered the under on the Lakers win total. They already crushed it. They're the three seed in the West. Luca is averaging absurd 34, 8 and 8, and has the team that you and Joe House, the preeminent NBA experts on the planet, pegged as an easy under. It's like, kind of a nice compliment.
20:02 Speaker 01 For you, that's obviously disparaging towards me.
20:06 Bill Simmons? Trevor wants to know, why is Luca not the MVP? I'm getting this a lot from Laker fans lately. You obviously felt he had a terrible team around him as he took the under on the Lakers, which by the way, it was like 48. Shay is the MVP for having the defending champs, which he took the over on exactly where he thought they'd be. Cracker, please. That's how he ended it.
20:26 Speaker 01 Cracker, please. I like it.
20:28 Bill Simmons? The Luca case, Luca has been the most valuable player in the league or co-MVP with Wemby for the last, really since the All-Star break, I would say.
20:37 Speaker 01 It's great.
20:38 Bill Simmons? They've been the best two guys.
20:39 Speaker 01 As a measuring stick.
20:40 Bill Simmons? It's an 82 game season, unfortunately.
20:42 Speaker 01 That's right. Yes. Honestly, yeah, go ahead.
20:46 Bill Simmons? Well, it's just, he was player of the month in January, but somewhere near the end of January, around that three week stretch was pretty iffy for him and the Lakers, just from the eye test. And there was some November, December stuff. There was another stretch in there. I don't know. SGA has just been so consistent the whole time. I think that has to matter when you talk about the award.
21:07 Speaker 01 The MVP of the Lakers is JJ Reddick. JJ deserves this credit. Is it that hot? I mean, the thing that we were waiting for with Luca was for the flip to switch, for him to be committed to playing defense. And what you hear.
21:25 Bill Simmons? Switch to flip or the flip to switch?
21:28 Speaker 01 What I said, however I said it.
21:30 Bill Simmons? The flip to switch. Are we that old?
21:35 Speaker 01 He was gonna flip the switch. We needed him to.
21:37 Bill Simmons? This is you're in my, you're in my area now. I'm the one who's supposed to screw things up.
21:41 Speaker 01 That's right. You and I talk.
21:42 Bill Simmons? Go ahead.
21:44 Speaker 01 Yeah, you got it, but I, he's motivated to play defense now. And on top of that, there has been a liberating effect. We should, you know, reexamine, remember where we were early chemistry wise between him and Reeves. And then Reeves was hurt for a big stretch of time and the team wasn't as good defensively without Reeves. And it wasn't as good offensively without Reeves. Now look at their net offensive and defensive ratings over since the All-Star break. They are like fourth in the NBA on offense and they're inside the top 10 on defense. They're still in the 17 to 20 range rating wise on defense, but this, this measuring period, they are inside the top 10 on defense. And what, what do you attribute that to?
22:29 Speaker 01 Well, everybody that I listen to, all the smart people, people that you talk to, Luca is trying to play some defense now. He is an important part of, of their defensive improvement. And sure, you can say LeBron, you know, found his role. This is a role that makes the most sense for him.
22:48 Bill Simmons? Deandre is somewhat alive. I wouldn't trust that.
22:52 Speaker 01 We have 40 dunks from LeBron and right and Ayton. I mean, when we were sitting and trying to forecast how this Laker season might go, it felt like even money that it was going to be a catastrophe, a disaster, because they had gotten run the F off the basketball court in the playoffs. And what they did in terms of personnel additions coming into this season didn't look seismic to me.
23:13 Bill Simmons? I'll go further. I don't think they expected this in the beginning of February. Cause if they did, they would have done more trades.
23:22 Speaker 01 Great point.
23:23 Bill Simmons? They didn't do anything.
23:25 Speaker 01 They did nothing.
23:26 Bill Simmons? They didn't, they kept all their picks and it was clearly a transition year for them and they had felt like they kind of punted on it. And the only move they really made was Gabe Vincent for Luke Kennard. And who's a better fit for this team and is kind of perfect in some ways, but for the most part. You know, they, they weren't even really kicking the tires and talking about different guys because I don't think they thought they had it this year. Now you watch them, I mean, people are smiling during games and people are happy and Jackson Hayes is laughing.
23:58 Speaker 01 Playing golf together, the whole team.
23:59 Bill Simmons? People are talking to Ayton on the bench. I said this before, I'll say it again, that the trade deadline passing was the best thing that happened to this team. Because.
24:08 Speaker 01 So you gotta give credit to JJ.
24:10 Bill Simmons? But, but I mean, all the passive aggressive stuff, all the who might be here, who deserves to be here? What's gonna happen with LeBron? Is LeBron gonna be, like, all that stuff just goes away the moment everyone's stuck with the team? And the moment they were stuck with the team and then LeBron missed a couple of games and came back and then all of a sudden, now everyone's happy. Luca does look in better shape, though. I will say that.
24:32 Speaker 01 I agree.
24:32 Bill Simmons? He just looks better and he looks happier.
24:36 Speaker 01 Should we, should we do the conspiracy theory about a motivated man? You know, whatever's going on in his personal life?
24:43 Bill Simmons? Of pouring it into the, to the work?
24:47 Speaker 01 Pouring it into the work. There you go. Because there's, he might be, you know, if he's a free agent, if he's a, if he's a, as a very prominent person in the LA community and a relationship free agent and he's out there, you know, wrecking homes and figuratively, in the sense of what he's doing at the basketball court. Maybe he has, maybe he's looking, but he's certainly motivated.
25:13 Bill Simmons? He has an awesome case and there's probably years where he would have won. He's averaging 34, 8 and 8 and the team's gonna be a three seed. Wemby has been the most dominant player in the league for two months now. Jokic is gonna average a triple double for the year and is gonna finish fourth in the MVP, which is nuts. Seven, the best statistical year of his career, I think. It's a, we've had this before, like 87 was like this, Bird won three straight and in 87 finished third in the voting and had his best year. If he had a better year than all three of his MVP years and finished third, because this is how it goes down.
25:50 Bill Simmons? We'll see what happens. All right, next one. This is from Tom in Adelaide, South Australia. Adelaide?
25:57 Speaker 01 Adelaide. I think that's right.
25:59 Bill Simmons? The Australians, the Australians love the pod. We love them too.
26:04 Bill Simmons? I'm in Australia. My most hated non-game feature of the NBA League Pass? The horrible in-stadium MCs during timeouts. They yell, "Make some noise," and I can't hear you. Constant yelling. It's so fucking annoying. I'm watching Spurs vs Warriors right now, wanting to stab my ears with needles. There's two morons yell, "Who wants a t-shirt? Make some noise. Maybe I'm old."
26:29 Bill Simmons? I think that's a great email. I completely agree with it.
26:32 Speaker 01 Everything. No notes.
26:34 Bill Simmons? Why did they just punt on the timeouts? They just show the Jumbotron footage. And, and you just watch all the same idiots trying to dance and get on the Jumbotron that you see if you're at the game. Why do I need to see that?
26:50 Speaker 01 There's some, there's gotta be some lane for some kind of entertainment for those of us who consume these games by League Pass. Give us something special because we're not there in that stupid stadium getting engaged, right?
27:04 Bill Simmons? This is why I'm here. I have an idea.
27:06 Speaker 01 Let's go. Let's go.
27:08 Bill Simmons? I feel like this is a real chance to teach NBA fans about the sport during these timeouts. If we're not going to run commercials, if we're just punting on this. So I think there's like 12 commercial breaks during the game.
27:24 Bill Simmons? They could make 200 two-minute videos about the history of the NBA. And it's like, we're going to a timeout. Here's two minutes on Paul Westphal. He made four straight All-NBA teams, first-team All-NBA's in the late 70s, and was a white guy who could dunk on dudes. And he made the 1976 finals, and he was fucking awesome. Here are some highlights, and here's three talking heads talking about him. Now back to the game. Because our biggest frustration is all these people under 30, like they, you know, they try to wade into the historical stuff, and they have no context on anybody. Well, let's do it. Great games, regular season games, players, teams. Do like a little 83 Sixers thing. Oh, we're going to commercial. Here's Mary Ellie's
28:07 Bill Simmons? kiss the kiss the death shot against Phoenix. Here's two minutes on how that happened. Like, fucking teach us stuff instead of like, hey, I want a T-shirt.
28:17 Speaker 01 Well, think about the incredible, incredible archives that the league possesses.
28:22 Bill Simmons? Eighty years of stuff.
28:24 Speaker 01 Of like, mind blowing. And we're not even, I mean, we've been privileged enough to be able to, uh, have, we have an interest in old NBA fights and we've, we've.
28:35 Bill Simmons? Well, some of them are on YouTube. I just sent you Kermit Washington punching John Schumate.
28:39 Speaker 01 Now, we're not suggesting that the league would run during the league past the fights. But what the point I'm making is that there is history to be shared here and people should see, um, what Hershey Hawkins looked like. People should see like, you know, what, how Alvin Robertson Robertson played, like just crazy, old names. Yes, exactly.
29:03 Bill Simmons? Hey, you know who's awesome? Sidney Moncrief. Here's some highlights. Hey, I mean, the 83 Bucks almost it was their best chance to make the finals and then they ran into the faux faux faux Sixers and here's, here's how that series went. Like, I, I don't know what we're doing. Uh, all right, we're gonna take a break and then I have more mailbag stuff for you. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. This MLB season, FanDuel giving you a chance to call your shot with daily dingers. Make your free pick on who's hitting a homerun and if you're right, you'll get a profit boost to use on your next bet. It's just another reason why FanDuel is the home of home runs. Uh, I've watched every Red Sox game and I think the Red Sox are due for some power as they head into this home weekend
29:48 Bill Simmons? series against San Diego, specifically Roman Anthony, who homered in a pinch hit appearance in the last Houston game. Um, him and Contreras would be the two I would think about. And then you never know about Rafaela, but any of those, uh, head to fanduel.com/BS to opt in and make your daily dingers pick. Play ball and swing for the fences on FanDuel, an official partner of the MLB. 21 plus select states or 18 plus DC, Kentucky, Wyoming. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Game problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. What makes basketball so exciting?
30:33 Bill Simmons? All the superior skill on the court. This has been the case my whole life. The craziest thing, I mean, Wemby stuff he's doing every game. There's two, three Wemby moments a game. You're like, I don't know if I've ever seen that. The number one thing for me is when he does the screen and roll. He's going to the basket. Somebody throws him an alley oop and he just catches it and dunks it without jumping. It's an alley oop, but it's not an oop. It's just kind of an alley. And every time he does it, I'm like, I've definitely 100% never seen that anymore. It's a superior play. Superior plays aren't just for the NBA, though. Try Michelob Ultra, the official beer partner of the NBA. And a crisp, refreshing, superior light beer. It's the beer of Max Kellerman. He just told me that.
31:15 Bill Simmons? Plus they're giving you a chance to win courtside seats, custom merch and more. Michelob Ultra, superior is worth playing for. Enter now at michelobultra.com/courtside. Michelob Ultra Courtside 2526. No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents 21 plus. Begins on October 1st, 2025. Ends on June 30th, 2026. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at michelobultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines and prizes and details. All right, one more Luca question from the mailbag. This is good for us. It's a history one. It's from John. With Wemby's ascendance, if Luca doesn't lead the Lakers to a miracle title this year, there's a good chance he will never hold the best player in the league championship belt.
32:00 Bill Simmons? I know you love lists, so I'm curious. Who do you think were the best five to 10 players ever? Who were never at any point of their career considered to be the best player in the league? So I went through the pyramid. First nine guys, don't worry about them. 10th guy on my pyramid list, Steph Curry.
32:23 Bill Simmons? Was there ever a point in Steph Curry's career where everybody agreed he was the best player in the league?
32:31 Speaker 01 The 2015 NBA?
32:34 Bill Simmons? LeBron's there, though. Nobody think, nobody thought he was.
32:38 Speaker 01 Cause it was so early for them.
32:39 Bill Simmons? But nobody thought LeBron was better than Steph Curry.
32:43 Speaker 01 Wow.
32:44 Bill Simmons? So you could say 2022, when he, when he single-handedly basically brings Golden State to the title, I think he gets it for that year. I think we left 22 and we're like, that's the best player in the league.
32:57 Speaker 01 Okay.
32:58 Bill Simmons? Maybe? That was the first one I had doubts on.
33:01 Speaker 01 I, I don't have doubts, but, but your, your observation around, you know, how does he jump over LeBron? And in 22, how's he jump over Jokic?
33:13 Bill Simmons? He might, he maybe doesn't. So that's the first one. So I'd have him. Jerry West, who was incredible, who I still have in my top 12, but Russell was there and then immediately praised by Wilt and then Russell again, then Kareem. He was never, he was the best non-center, but he was never the best player.
33:30 Speaker 01 Never had the belt.
33:32 Bill Simmons? Oscar Robertson, Kevin Durant. Even in 2014, when KD won the MVP, I still felt like we thought LeBron was the best player in the league.
33:43 Speaker 01 Sure, sure. 2014, absolutely.
33:45 Bill Simmons? John Havlicek.
33:47 Speaker 01 Okay.
33:50 Bill Simmons? Did we ever think Giannis was the best player in the league, even though he won MVPs? Maybe after he won the 21 finals?
33:57 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think so.
33:59 Bill Simmons? Yeah. So he did cross him off.
34:01 Speaker 01 I think Giannis.
34:02 Bill Simmons? Dirk Nowitzki in 2011, when he ran through everybody and won the title.
34:08 Speaker 01 I don't know.
34:09 Bill Simmons? I'm still not sure. I thought he was the best player in the league.
34:12 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:12 Bill Simmons? So he's on there. Elgin Baylor's on there because he went against Russell. So there, I just gave you seven guys. Curry, West, Robertson, Durant, Havlicek, Dirk, Elgin Baylor.
34:26 Speaker 01 It's sad that we couldn't even include Charles Barkley, but he can't even really-
34:29 Bill Simmons? Well, I had Julius Irving, it was a yes when he was in the ABA, so he doesn't count. Garnett, Malone, and Barkley, all three of those are in. So if you're rounding out to 10.
34:39 Speaker 01 Okay.
34:42 Bill Simmons? Brian from Portland, Oregon, wants to know, have you seen the ads for this TBS show foul play with Anthony Davis? It's been running during March Madness.
34:51 Speaker 01 I have, I have seen them.
34:52 Bill Simmons? Would you ever have thought-
34:53 Speaker 01 It's got my attention.
34:54 Bill Simmons? Would you ever have thought Anthony Davis would get his own TV show? How many other NBA players would you have guessed as the host for this before you landed on Anthony Davis? And I think for me, the number is somewhere between 45 and 50.
35:08 Speaker 01 Maybe there's something that we're, we're missing. Like Anthony Davis hasn't had a chance to cook. Is that, is that possible?
35:16 Bill Simmons? Is that what we think?
35:17 Speaker 01 Behind the scenes, maybe he's been doing it for, for all this time.
35:21 Bill Simmons? Really?
35:22 Speaker 01 And, and it's finally being shared with us. It's finally being revealed. Let, let, let AD cook.
35:27 Bill Simmons? Is it?
35:28 Speaker 01 We've been, we've been hyper focused on can he play consecutive games every other Davis? Will he play, you know?
35:38 Bill Simmons? Maybe, well, he has the most time to host it. I would want Anthony Edwards to host that show.
35:43 Speaker 01 Yeah, sure.
35:44 Bill Simmons? I think that feels like a good Anthony Edwards.
35:46 Speaker 01 I get that.
35:47 Bill Simmons? He's actually funny. Anthony Edwards makes me laugh.
35:49 Speaker 01 He's funny. Yeah.
35:50 Bill Simmons? Blake Griffin would have been another one I would have thought would have been good for a show like that.
35:53 Speaker 01 Yes.
35:54 Bill Simmons? Anthony Davis, no. Sunny wants to know, Zach mentioned that Donovan Klingon looks like Gunther, the wrestler, becoming the first person in mainstream media to make that point. Shouldn't we start calling Klingon the Rim, Rim General? Because Gunther is the Ring General. Doesn't this instantly become a top five nickname in the NBA? The Rim General?
36:16 Speaker 01 A plus.
36:17 Bill Simmons? A plus?
36:18 Speaker 01 Give that emailer an A plus.
36:19 Bill Simmons? The fucking Rim General.
36:21 Speaker 01 It's a, it's a tremendous name. It, it works in the, and in, in Portland especially.
36:28 Bill Simmons? Winston writes in, I got, by the way, please stop sending me tanking emails again. I can't. Chuck and I talked about it on Tuesday and it just, it's like the gates open. Winston did have a good point though. Tanking is like pornography. You know it when you see it.
36:45 Bill Simmons? Instead of making more rules, the teams will inevitably get around empower the commissioner to hammer teams that everyone knows are tanking. There's a good of the game clause at the moment. It's not specific enough. The commissioner needs to start hammering people to show he's serious. I've heard variations of this, including a competition type committee. That's a tanking committee where they would watch the Wizards give up 83 to Bam Adebayo and just be like, we're taking 10 ping pong balls away. You're going to have 10 less in the lottery after that. You don't think that works?
37:19 Speaker 01 No. The problem is you have to rewrite the incentive structure. You can't have a connection between performance on the floor and the number one overall pick. If there's a connection between game outcomes and, and getting the number one overall pick, you're fucked. There's no getting over it. You can imagine 10 million iterations, but as long as that link exists, if I'm incented to do poorly to have a chance at that pick, then every rational actor will do poorly. The only way to, to change that is to randomize who gets the number one pick. If you want teams to compete, then you have to incent them to compete.
38:01 Speaker 01 I've seen, I saw a nice thing, a guy in the Washington Post, a, a law professor said, for through the first two thirds of the season, it's fine. You establish a kind of position, but then you can improve that position if you win over the last third of the season. The incentive is to win when, you know, this, this moment occurs for us every year from the trade deadline to the end of the season and wins can improve your, your position. So then you get competitive games because you're trying to, to win at the end. You'll have a certain sort of place because you've demonstrated over the first two thirds of the season that you suck. But then if you really try, even though you suck to go win games, you can improve that sucky position and that's desirable.
38:44 Speaker 01 But I mean, as long as, you know, bad team gets number one pick, then the incentive is for the number one, for it to be bad.
38:53 Bill Simmons? A couple of different people had variations of this idea, but I think I tweaked it into an idea that I kind of liked. And it's, I thought of it from when the NFL, when they tell people, I'm now going to attempt an onside kick.
39:07 Bill Simmons? And you tell the other team, oh, you're onside kicking. Okay, we'll get our guys out. But you have to announce it ahead of time. What would happen if teams just basically announced, we're tanking?
39:21 Bill Simmons? And you could decide at any point of the season, they put out a basically like best odds for the number one pick. This tanking group, but you have to tell us that you're tanking and you're throwing away. And then everybody who has tickets for your games, now it's 50% off. But basically if they announce it and either you announce or you don't, once, if you don't announce it and then you try to tank, you don't get to be in that group because you're one chance to stop. So in November, it'd be like six teams have announced they're already tanking. And they're just in that group and then they could try, you could play guys, you could try to beat teams and it wouldn't matter because you're in that thing anyway. You don't like it.
40:03 Speaker 01 I mean, there's an integrity to the games element to it. You announce, so what's the deal? You're saying you would announce that you are tanking.
40:14 Bill Simmons? I'm saying like you know November that Washington doesn't care, right? We knew, you knew that in October that Washington didn't care.
40:21 Speaker 01 No, they were rationally motivated.
40:23 Bill Simmons? All right, we have these spots for the tanking lottery. Do you want to be in there or not? Do you want to throw away, you're not allowed to make the playoffs. Your tickets are going to be 50% off for the entire year, but you can reserve your spot in the tanking lottery right now. So Washington, Utah are like, that sounds great. We're in. Awesome.
40:41 Speaker 01 How's that any different from where they are now, which is the inability to put more than 8,000 people in the stadium on a Tuesday against, you know, Portland?
40:50 Bill Simmons? I don't know.
40:50 Speaker 01 50% off tickets, you know, that's not really much of a disincentive.
40:55 Bill Simmons? Adam Silver, grow some fucking chest hair and figure this out, please. Clancy writes in, would you trade Palo for a top three pick in the 2026 draft?
41:10 Speaker 01 Who are the top three? I guess it doesn't matter.
41:13 Bill Simmons? Well, let's say it's Peterson, DeBansa and Cam Boozer in some order. I would not. Combo of how expensive Palo is. Not 100% positive. He's a winning four playoff rounds player yet from a defensive standpoint. That defensive mistake he made, did you see that three he gave up when they lost? And he just
41:38 Speaker 01 Got lost.
41:39 Bill Simmons? He just got lost on the biggest play of the game. I don't
41:42 Speaker 01 Yes.
41:43 Bill Simmons? 100% trust him as a two-way guy.
41:47 Speaker 01 I think it's impossible to have a fair view, a fair assessment of Palo based on the context in which he's entered the league and
41:55 Bill Simmons? Okay, that's not the question. You could trade him and have one of these guys on a rookie contract. So I personally would trade him for any of the top four.
42:05 Speaker 01 Well, the rookie contract element of it changes the, the, the equation, right? Because
42:10 Bill Simmons? Does this feel like something Sacramento would do?
42:14 Speaker 01 Well, let's think about it.
42:16 Bill Simmons? Sacramento gets the second pick and they're like, we can't have the second pick again. Last time we had the second pick, we took Marvin Bagley over Luka Doncic. We have to trade this thing. So we'll, we'll get rid of Zach Levine's last year of his contract and the second pick and we'll get Palo and we'll have an established super bar. And we're going to be lighting the fucking beam next year.
42:35 Speaker 01 I, I think that, I mean, Sacramento is a bad example because Doug Christie is the coach, but I think Palo
42:41 Bill Simmons? Well, they would, they would hire an actual NBA coach.
42:43 Speaker 01 Okay, if they do that, if they do that, like that's, that's a goddamn good trade. I don't think that's a, I don't think that's a bad trade at all. I think there's a version of Palo that we haven't seen yet. And I know, I understand all the criticism. Uh, and you know, when, when we're having the question effort and when he and the coach are doing the, the press dueling press conferences about who's to blame for the, for the fate of the team, that's all bad stuff. But I, I mean, he's really talented.
43:13 Bill Simmons? I would trade him for DeBansa in five seconds.
43:18 Speaker 01 You would take
43:18 Bill Simmons? The other, the other three, I would have to really study the tape and feel good about it. But DeBansa, I just think DeBansa is going to be a monster.
43:25 Speaker 01 You know that, that he is a, a 20-plus point scorer, a 10-plus rebounder.
43:31 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
43:32 Speaker 01 We're talking about Palo. Is Cam Boozer that?
43:36 Bill Simmons? He's an interesting one. I don't know. I don't really know.
43:39 Speaker 01 Top three. If he's in the top three, that's an interesting.
43:42 Bill Simmons? But the question is, could Boozer give you everything Palo's giving you with higher IQ, both end stuff, and he's making one fifth the money?
43:51 Speaker 01 The one fifth the money is the thing that the tilt is.
43:53 Bill Simmons? Cause they have some big tax stuff coming.
43:55 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
43:58 Bill Simmons? Daniel Z wants to know, you said you would not trade the top five picks in the upcoming 2026 draft for Wemby. I said that on a mailbag. Do you agree with that?
44:08 Speaker 01 I thought you considered it. I thought when you got the five, you're like, you know what?
44:11 Bill Simmons? Yeah, cause but I still would have.
44:13 Speaker 01 Four, no, no chance.
44:15 Bill Simmons? Wemby hit my FanDuel bet last night. I was so excited.
44:18 Speaker 01 Amazing. I mean, he was.
44:19 Bill Simmons? Thirty-five and fourteen. He crushed it.
44:22 Speaker 01 Crushed it. Flew by it.
44:23 Bill Simmons? Daniel wants to know, is Wemby at age 22, number one overall on the all-time trade value list? And who are some of the other all-timers? I feel like I've answered this before, but we'll do it again. Eighty-seven MJ, I think, is one.
44:36 Speaker 01 Great.
44:38 Bill Simmons? I think he was like first or second team All-NBA. His third years of guard, and was just in, he was probably single-handedly worth more money than any other guy in the league. And this was a league that had Bird and Magic and Barkley and all these dudes. He was a one-man billion-dollar franchise, basically.
44:55 Speaker 01 For sure.
44:56 Bill Simmons? Even though they weren't worth that much left. Nineteen ninety-nine Tim Duncan coming off the title.
45:02 Speaker 01 Okay.
45:02 Bill Simmons? Knowing I have him for eight years and I'm just gonna compete.
45:05 Speaker 01 Incredible.
45:07 Bill Simmons? I mean, Kareem doesn't count. I just did guys that we've seen, like post-merger guys. Cause Kareem would be number one on this.
45:14 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
45:15 Bill Simmons? Nineteen eighty-six Hakeem, two years in, going toe-to-toe, like demolishing the Lakers, taking the Celtics to six in the finals.
45:26 Speaker 01 This is, that's a good one.
45:28 Bill Simmons? Wemby. By the way, I'm not ranking these. I'm just giving you guys.
45:31 Speaker 01 No, these are.
45:34 Bill Simmons? Probably 2005 LeBron, I would say, because he was only 20 at that point and was already in the playoffs. And you knew like the next at least 15 years were ahead of him and were going to be spectacular. 1994 Shaq, second year Shaq, which I think he was 29 and 10 firsthand. Magic and Bird, their first rookie years. 2009 or 10 Durant, somewhere in there. And then Moses, when he went to Houston, when Buffalo traded him. And all of a sudden Moses was putting up like 20 and 15 every night. We're like, what's, what's going on here? And he was like 20. That was my list.
46:10 Speaker 01 During a League Pass commercial. People need to see Moses.
46:13 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that could be a League Pass commercial. Um, all right. So I just gave you 10 guys. Who's number one out of all those guys I listed for you?
46:20 Speaker 01 MJ 87.
46:21 Bill Simmons? That's, that's what I had too.
46:23 Speaker 01 It's not even close.
46:24 Bill Simmons? Another loss for LeBron.
46:27 Speaker 01 It's not a loss for LeBron.
46:28 Bill Simmons? We turned this into another MJ LeBron thing.
46:30 Speaker 01 Well, yeah, only you did. MJ changed the direction.
46:35 Bill Simmons? It was his fault.
46:37 Speaker 01 The, the direction of the industry. Cause he dragged basketball into the modern.
46:42 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Cause 86 he has the 63 point game against the Celtics. 87 he averages, I think 37 a game or whatever. And his first team All NBA, you're taking him first. Where, is Wemby? I mean, there's the injury potential with him. It's the only thing that scares me.
47:01 Speaker 01 With good reason.
47:02 Bill Simmons? But I think he's in the area of MJ LeBron, young LeBron, young Duncan, young Hakeem. He's in.
47:10 Speaker 01 I have no problem including him in this conversation. I have no issue with it whatsoever.
47:15 Bill Simmons? Ethan Jensen has a Wemby question. My dream for the NBA is to turn Wemby into a villain. I think he's the perfect future villain. He's cocky, empowered and French. I'd like to start sooner than later. I'm a jazz fan, but would love to have everyone start hating Wemby. And then we need Anthony Edwards to defeat him. It's the most fun outcome for NBA fandom next 10 years. Villain Wemby.
47:36 Speaker 01 You know who agrees with this?
47:37 Bill Simmons? Who?
47:38 Speaker 01 Jacoby. Jacoby's been, been trying to paint.
47:41 Bill Simmons? I know. Maybe he wrote that under an assumed name.
47:45 Bill Simmons? I was thinking the WWE, this happened in the mid 90s when they were trying to make Bret Hart a good guy for a while. And the fans weren't really responding and then they leaned into like, all right, we'll make him and the Hart Foundation villains. But Bret Hart wasn't really a villain. So like, what could be his hook? And it's basically like, I'm from Canada, we do it better than you do it. You Americans have gotten lazy. We're a better country.
48:08 Speaker 01 Nobody believed it.
48:09 Bill Simmons? And they're like waving the flag and like, we're.
48:11 Speaker 01 Nobody believed it.
48:12 Bill Simmons? Maybe that's, but maybe he has to do Hart Foundation, Wemby. I'm from a country that's figured out political leadership better than you guys is waving the French flag.
48:22 Speaker 01 So there's going to be natural enemies of the Spurs that will treat Wemby as a villain. Oklahoma City is there already.
48:31 Bill Simmons? Oh, yeah.
48:33 Speaker 01 It maybe, I don't know.
48:34 Bill Simmons? You know what? No, you know what's going to start it? If they play the Lakers in round two.
48:41 Speaker 01 I mean, knock on wood, let's get that. Well, so how is Wemby a villain in that series?
48:45 Bill Simmons? Cause he's going against the Lakers. That's the most popular franchise we have. He's going against all the LeBron fans, all the Luca fans, the city of Dallas, all the Laker fans.
48:55 Speaker 01 The city of Dallas.
48:56 Bill Simmons? Yeah, everybody. Dallas is jumping in. Dallas is rooting for Luca to win the title just so they can get mad at Nico.
49:01 Speaker 01 Dallas might already hate Wemby. I wonder, let's ask Dallas how they feel about Wemby.
49:05 Bill Simmons? They definitely hate Wemby.
49:07 Speaker 01 They, yeah. But I, the, the reaction of Golden State, like I think by and large, as Wemby goes around and plays in these stadiums at the level that he's playing at, there is a significant concentration of people that are making noises every time he does any one of the incredible things that he does. Like you, it was loud.
49:28 Bill Simmons? You saw him, right?
49:29 Speaker 01 Golden State. I didn't see him.
49:31 Bill Simmons? You haven't been, you haven't seen him in person yet.
49:33 Speaker 01 He was out. He was out when he came, when they came to Washington.
49:36 Bill Simmons? We're gonna have to go see a playoff game. You have to see this.
49:38 Speaker 01 Let's do it. Done.
49:39 Bill Simmons? There's nothing like this Wemby situation.
49:41 Speaker 01 Say less. I'll fly anywhere.
49:44 Bill Simmons? So Nick from Victoria, B.C. Some good destinations in this mailbag. I did that whole thing with Zach about whether this was the weirdest NBA season of all time.
49:55 Speaker 01 Oh, I enjoyed it.
49:57 Bill Simmons? He said, one thing you forgot. We were introduced to Albanian Bruce, Black Tony and the Blazers wondering, where's my coach?
50:06 Bill Simmons? I laid out this is the weirdest season ever and forgot that the Blazers coach coached one game and then got arrested in a gambling scandal.
50:16 Speaker 01 Because of Black Tony.
50:17 Bill Simmons? And Albanian Bruce.
50:19 Speaker 01 And Albanian Bruce.
50:20 Bill Simmons? Totally forgot that. And then.
50:22 Speaker 01 The Asian woman had an incredible name as well. I'm gonna look her name up.
50:25 Bill Simmons? David H chimed in on that. Other things we forgot about, like Kate Cunningham being an MVP candidate, blah, blah, blah. But he was like, forgot about.
50:35 Speaker 01 Weird.
50:36 Bill Simmons? Forgot about Billups and Rozier.
50:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
50:39 Bill Simmons? You forgot about all the expansion insanity that's come out of nowhere. You forgot players actually tried in the All-Star game. That's a good one. You forgot Philly got to duck the tax from Paul George, but did it by trading a guy all the Philly fans loved and enraged them. You forgot about the prediction market discourse and Yanis somehow owning a piece of Kalshi. You didn't mention the Pacers going from game seven of the finals to potentially having the worst team. You didn't mention the 65 game rule, the Pistons horn and sprawl and Westbrook versus the media, which has been one of the weirdest things. And then he closes by saying, I now want to see the Simmons carpool become an annual event with
51:21 Bill Simmons? your favorite underappreciated draft rookie. So maybe I get in the car with Acuff next year. He comes to a pod and I just drive him back to his hotel. It could be, could we get this sponsored?
51:31 Speaker 01 Let's get a camera in there. I mean, it's not, you're not ripping off carpool karaoke because this is an entirely different animal. You know.
51:40 Bill Simmons? When Jacoby and I, when we were first year at Grantland and we pitched them this whole idea for, I've talked about this before, podcasts and cars. And we were talking like some SUV and doing the whole thing. And it was like too complicated. And then like, I don't know, a year or two later, the Corden did that carpool karaoke thing. And we were like, fuck. Like we had the idea. I was just gonna be driving around in the SUV doing pods.
52:05 Speaker 01 How many episodes are there of Seinfeld driving around doing, you know?
52:08 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he did that too. We had it. ESPN screwed it up. Like they screwed up everything when we were at Grantland.
52:14 Speaker 01 Lot of.
52:16 Bill Simmons? Da Bob in New York. He said, if there's is expansion and they have to move a team to the Eastern Conference, could they open up a bidding war between the Timberwolves, Pelicans and Grizzlies to move to the East Coast? Would any of them actually trade draft capital or players to want to go from west to east? Would you sacrifice a first round pick or pay 100 or sacrifice 100 million dollars you're getting from the expansion thing to have just a better chance? I don't think so, but I like the idea. I like the concept. Or maybe you give up Zion in the expansion draft he mentioned.
52:51 Speaker 01 Which is further east, isn't Memphis or New Orleans?
52:55 Bill Simmons? If you look at the map, it's really stupid. Like Memphis should probably be in the east, but Memphis is also really close to a couple of western. We just, the map is too tilted toward the eastern teams. New Orleans is another one. Like it's unclear why New Orleans or Memphis is in the west. All right, you'll like this one, House. Connor from Oregon. As a lifelong Blazers fan, I don't think they're getting enough attention as the honest destination. Not only do they own the Bucks future picks, but they just handed control of the team to Tom Dundon. We just watched Matt Ishby completely gut a fun finals contender for Kevin Durant.
53:40 Bill Simmons? And he's basically worried that this new owner is going to get new owner syndrome right away. Trade all their assets for Yanis to go with Drew Holiday, Dame, Yanis, Denny Abdi and whatever else. So they have, they can swap picks with Milwaukee in 28. They have their 29 pick and they can swap again with them in 2030. I do feel like this is the stealth Yanis destination now.
54:09 Speaker 01 Fascinating test of your market theory. You know, you advanced this in the last 10 days or so around what is the market for Yanis? What will market, what will Yanis fetch in return because of the diminishing asset? You know, the, the history of a player that person, a person that plays the manner in which he plays, having sustained health. That team you just said, that's a pretty good team. I'm, I'd be interested. That's an interesting team.
54:39 Bill Simmons? What if you traded the rim general Donovan Klingon? So I just use that. So rim general's in there. It's too bad. And basically Milwaukee gets all their picks back and more Portland picks. And here's Scoot Henderson, you can have him too and figure him out for a year. Wh- what about the defensive specialist camera? I'm keeping him if I'm trying to win a title. All right.
55:03 Bill Simmons? As I said, when I talked about this with Goldsberry, it's going to come down to a desperate team or a team that really is excited to make a move. New owner in Portland. Got my eye on it. There are odds anywhere where we can pick the next destination.
55:19 Bill Simmons? Now, here, here are the odds. Summer. This is the email. This is really the reason why you're on. Last year you were on. And we decided Dallas is going to win the NBA lottery.
55:32 Bill Simmons? And then I didn't stick to it. You said it. I said it, I laid out the case. We laughed, we were like, holy shit, that's going to happen. And then when it actually got to the week of the lottery, we forgot to bet it. We're not forgetting this time. This is from Mike Smeltz.
55:47 Bill Simmons? Hey, conspiracy bill. Got to love when it starts that way. I might know Mike Smeltz, keep going. It's obvious the Warriors are winning the lottery. All the factors line up. Adam Silver wants to punish the tanking teams. Well, the Warriors aren't a tanking team. The league doesn't want to waste Steph's last few years. They want to keep the Warriors a marquee franchise. Gifting the Warriors the top pick lets the team either add Peterson or DeBansa to juice the Warriors core, or they trade it like the Cavs did for Giannis. Or LeBron signs there. Steph, Giannis, LeBron, Draymond and Bronny as a starting five, he suggested. I love this.
56:28 Bill Simmons? So Golden State, if they lose the first playing game, they would have a 2% chance for number one, they would have a 9.4% chance for top four. Your thoughts?
56:39 Speaker 01 I mean, first of all, I'm almost positive it's the Smeltz that I know. Just, just for the record, America, I had nothing to do with, with fat fingering this email. I had no idea it was coming into you. Um, it's amazing. It's amazing.
56:53 Bill Simmons? It's the best one.
56:54 Speaker 01 A, a top four pick for sure. Um, because then you, it, it throws the scent off.
56:59 Bill Simmons? Top four pick is one in 11 odds, basically.
57:02 Speaker 01 They can't win number one, cause number one would really.
57:05 Bill Simmons? Dallas, they did it last year with Dallas. That was insane.
57:08 Speaker 01 That was the worst thing. I, I'll never forgive the league for that. I'll never forgive it.
57:12 Bill Simmons? Well, I was thinking funniest, funniest rigged lottery outcomes where we'd be like, oh my God, I can't believe they did that. That was so blatant. Golden State's won. Indiana winning, even though they have like 50, 50 odds to get it, but to bone over the Clippers from getting a pick between five and nine, that would be pretty funny.
57:31 Speaker 01 That one, that's, that's, we're gambling on that. That's, that's a certainty.
57:35 Bill Simmons? Dallas getting it again.
57:37 Speaker 01 I know. God damn it.
57:38 Bill Simmons? As another apology for Nico, what if they just won back to back?
57:42 Speaker 01 What if they do that and they force, cause, cause Cuban's trying to buy the team again? He wants to buy it back.
57:48 Bill Simmons? Honestly, Cuban needs to stop doing interviews. Why'd you sell the team in the first place? Why'd you sell it to those guys? And you hired Nico Harrison? Stop talking.
57:57 Speaker 01 Minus, minus, minus.
57:59 Bill Simmons? Stop talking. Your blood, the blood is all over you. Stop talking.
58:03 Speaker 01 Michael Finley had nothing to do with that trade.
58:05 Bill Simmons? Oh my God.
58:06 Speaker 01 Just wanted to get that out there. Okay.
58:08 Bill Simmons? The other team that'd be funny from a rigged standpoint, Portland, 1.5% chance for number one, 7.1 chance for top four, just cause somebody bought the team and they're trying to get a Seattle expansion team going. And that guy would be one of the eight votes of like, I'm not fucking voting for that. Seattle's two and a half hours from me.
58:27 Speaker 01 It's my backyard.
58:27 Bill Simmons? It's like, well, can we offer you a little AJ DeBansa?
58:31 Speaker 01 There is a, if only there wasn't history, a demonstrated track record of the league doing this multiple times over the last 30 years.
58:40 Bill Simmons? 12 times.
58:41 Speaker 01 Exactly.
58:42 Bill Simmons? Do you know, somebody told me Utah's never moved up in the lottery, like in the history of the franchise? Yeah.
58:49 Speaker 01 Wow. That doesn't seem possible.
58:52 Bill Simmons? Alec Joyner wants to know, could an all Jalen team win the 2026 title?
59:00 Bill Simmons? That would be starting five. Jalen Brunson, Jalen Williams, Jalen Brown, Jalen Johnson, and Jalen Durin. It's pretty good. Bench, Jalen Suggs, Jalen Green, Jalen Smith, Jalen Williams, Jalen Wilson, Jalen Wells. So Jalen Brunson, Jalen Williams, Jalen Brown, Jalen Johnson, Jalen Durin. That's a pretty good team. I don't know if they win the title, but I think that's like a conference finals team.
59:26 Speaker 01 How do they rebound? That's the only thing that I'm having a hard time with.
59:30 Bill Simmons? Johnson averages 10 a game.
59:31 Speaker 01 Yes, I know, I was gonna say it, but.
59:35 Bill Simmons? The only problem is with Jalen Brunson brings Rick Brunson, I think hypothetically. So I think that fucks the team up.
59:41 Speaker 01 He's not a Jalen. Rick is not a Jalen.
59:43 Bill Simmons? No, but Jalen's gonna be on the team. So then Rick Brunson has to be an assistant coach.
59:47 Speaker 01 But no, we need Jalen assistant coaches.
59:51 Bill Simmons? He also suggested the coach would be the one and only Jalen Rose, which I fully support.
59:55 Speaker 01 Great.
59:56 Bill Simmons? We saw his work in the 2014 celebrity game. Uh, two more. Tim writes, it's 2035. You moved back to Boston because cross-country flights are suddenly a whole thing on the body. I don't even know what that means. House is nearby recovering from his second major heart attack.
1:00:17 Speaker 01 That's not nice.
1:00:18 Bill Simmons? I, I'm just reading the email. Sports podcasts are mostly robot clones trained on your voice. You're getting old, but you have slightly enough fastball left to revise the final edition of the book of basketball. Meanwhile, the Spurs have stacked two more titles in the 2020s, another two in the first half of the 2030s. Can they get to six titles? Blah, blah, blah. San Antonio will have won at least one title in five straight decades. Would that make the Spurs the best franchise ever? Or are Celtic fans still grading on a curve from the Eisenhower administration? I'm gonna, this is from Tim. I'm pouring Tim some settle down juice. San Antonio hasn't even made the finals yet. We're giving them six more titles? Settle down. And how dare you say House is gonna have two heart attacks?
1:01:03 Speaker 01 My second heart attack, come on.
1:01:04 Bill Simmons? House's first heart attack will kill him.
1:01:07 Speaker 01 I'm not gonna have any heart attacks. How about that? I'm on cardio fitness right now. My blood pressure, 114 over 77 last time.
1:01:15 Bill Simmons? Yeah, you're walking.
1:01:16 Speaker 01 Fuck on that, Tim.
1:01:18 Bill Simmons? I did send you a picture of the Wendy's Chicken Parmesan. Sandwich from nineteen eighty nine.
1:01:24 Speaker 01 Let's go.
1:01:25 Bill Simmons? Which led to a whole text conversation about, that's another like, what are we doing? Why isn't this available?
1:01:31 Speaker 01 All those.
1:01:31 Bill Simmons? Why don't we have chicken Parmesan fast food sandwiches anymore?
1:01:34 Speaker 01 And it put us right, we immediately could launch into all the throwback food items from, from bygone heiress. But the chicken parm.
1:01:42 Bill Simmons? How hard is that? You just have, you make, you make the tomato sauce, you melt the cheese on the chicken and you just pour the tomato sauce on it.
1:01:49 Speaker 01 Cause they already have, everybody's got a chicken offering right now. A, a, like, pretty solid chicken offering.
1:01:55 Bill Simmons? I would honestly, much like.
1:01:56 Speaker 01 Where's Popeyes on this?
1:01:58 Bill Simmons? Well, much like, this is a, a great time for an MVP thing. Like, just great MVP candidates. We have just so many great chicken sandwiches right now.
1:02:07 Speaker 01 It's a, it is a great moment.
1:02:08 Bill Simmons? If we've really, Chick-fil-A really pushed everybody to another level, I think.
1:02:12 Speaker 01 Took it, took it a whole, yeah.
1:02:12 Bill Simmons? It was like Steph Curry's three point shooting. Taught big guys how to shoot, changed the league, changed the volume of threes you want. Like, he's ground zero, that, I think.
1:02:23 Speaker 01 Have you tried the Big Arch yet? The McDonald's, the big, the new McDonald's big burger? Have you tried it?
1:02:29 Bill Simmons? I have.
1:02:30 Speaker 01 Oh, okay. Did you do it for an ad read? Was it an ad read? Nobody.
1:02:34 Bill Simmons? My wife likes a cheeseburger from time to time.
1:02:37 Speaker 01 Understandable. Who doesn't?
1:02:39 Bill Simmons? No, I haven't tried it. I've really wanted to, though.
1:02:41 Speaker 01 You son of a bitch.
1:02:42 Bill Simmons? I wanted to get you excited that I've tried it. I want to, though, it's a great idea.
1:02:45 Speaker 01 So jealous.
1:02:46 Bill Simmons? Big Arch just makes me hungry.
1:02:48 Speaker 01 Me too. Uh, and I love, they did the whole thing with, with the, the bozo CEO, eating it like in the, in the company cafeteria or whatever, and giving it the most flaccid, you know, enthusiasm.
1:03:01 Bill Simmons? I think it's a bit, I think, see, I think that's a bit because.
1:03:03 Speaker 01 It had to have been a bit.
1:03:05 Bill Simmons? The social media for it. Yeah, it's, I thought it worked.
1:03:07 Speaker 01 They did a great job with it, but I, I'm telling you, I need to eat this burger. I need to, I haven't had it yet. And I have a whole concept for, for burgers that I'm gonna, um, share with you offline. Like, I have some burger concepts in mind.
1:03:20 Bill Simmons? What do you mean?
1:03:21 Speaker 01 What burger concept? I have a couple ideas.
1:03:22 Bill Simmons? Like sliders?
1:03:23 Speaker 01 Nah, there's a whole thing out there.
1:03:25 Bill Simmons? You wanna create a Ringer burger?
1:03:26 Speaker 01 I'm gonna try some burgers. Wanna eat some burgers, wanna, wanna, wanna see, you know, put some cities up against each other.
1:03:34 Bill Simmons? The house is actually pretty good.
1:03:37 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:03:38 Bill Simmons? Arch burger.
1:03:39 Speaker 01 Oh, okay. It looks like a giant meal. What's how say about is it is it too much?
1:03:44 Bill Simmons? Well, you know, on Survivor last night, Survivor's been really good. They had two hour episode and somebody won a reward and they won Applebee's and Jeff Probst went through the whole Applebee's. He's like, you could have a bacon cheeseburger and just like closeups of the food and HJ. It fucking made me. My wife and I went out to dinner last night. I wasn't even hungry. I was hungry by the time they did it. Like those are the and then I was thinking like, how much shitting do they do after when they haven't had normal food for two weeks?
1:04:15 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:04:15 Bill Simmons? And then they have like a bacon cheeseburger and a milkshake.
1:04:17 Speaker 01 High sodium, high saturated fat, you know, high sugar.
1:04:20 Bill Simmons? That just goes right through them, right?
1:04:23 Speaker 01 I don't know. It might. It certainly isn't good. The outcome is not good.
1:04:27 Bill Simmons? There's no good outcome from I'm gonna have my first food in 12 days and it's a bacon cheeseburger.
1:04:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:04:33 Bill Simmons? All right. Last question from Sean Moynihan. He loves half baked ideas with Kevin Wilds.
1:04:41 Speaker 01 Who doesn't? Come on.
1:04:42 Bill Simmons? My half baked ideas anesthesia bars. You go in and they put you under for how many hours you ask. You wake up and go about your day. Now, the kicker here is we're getting real licensed anesthesiologists. So it's completely safe. It's an above board operation. Think about it. You're at the mall with your better half. Okay, honey, I'm going to the anesthesia biology bar. I'll see you in two. I hope you find everything you want at the store. Or say you're anxious about catching a flight. You show up five hours early. You get put under for three hours and 30 minutes till you need to get to your gate. The only thing that could go wrong is your heart stops or whatever else kills people while they're
1:05:20 Bill Simmons? but how much worse but how much worse is that to be bored? I think there's something here. I mean, granted, I can't think of a better person to ask than Joe House for this question.
1:05:30 Speaker 01 Well, I I don't want to put you on blast, so I'm not going to pose the question to you, but I'll just tell you from my own personal experience. That the drugs that they administer when you go in for a colonoscopy are the single best experience that I've had under, under any anesthesia, any, any illicit drug, illicit drug, the nap that you take when you are in there and that, that particular cocktail they administer so they can, they can do that very vital check of your intestinal fortitude. It is so goddamn good. When it, when I woke up, I said, oh, don't wake me up. I don't want to be awake. Put me back, put me back to that, to that. It was, it
1:06:15 Speaker 01 was really a glorious state. So much so that I asked if I could come back in six months. They said, no, we're going to wait. Three years is fine. That's good. But if you can deliver that to me, especially the airport concept is especially like, let me be in that frame of mind. Now you're a little groggy. So maybe you don't want to go do anything like get on a plane, but.
1:06:40 Bill Simmons? What if they did it on the plane? What if that was part of what happened on the plane? Like you're flying.
1:06:45 Speaker 01 International travel.
1:06:46 Bill Simmons? You're flying to France or somewhere and you just get knocked out by an anesthesiologist.
1:06:51 Speaker 01 There's a 10 hour flight from, from Washington DC to Honolulu and you're telling me that, that four hours, that flight, I can, you know, have that beautiful, it's, it's the, it's, you feel so well rested. You're ready to go conquer the world.
1:07:05 Bill Simmons? I knew you'd love this. I knew you'd have great thoughts.
1:07:07 Speaker 01 Whenever it wears off.
1:07:09 Bill Simmons? So Masters, all the prep, all the preview stuff is going to be on Fairway Row. And I'll probably make you come back on next week to talk about golf.
1:07:16 Speaker 01 I'm bringing Nathan with me. We're, we're already inviting ourselves. It's going to be, you know, Thursday round that we can talk about with you.
1:07:22 Bill Simmons? All right. Good to see you, House. Back in a second with Jason Concepcion. Sometimes the greatest financial victories aren't the huge flashy contracts, but the mid-level moves that maximize your cap space. Just like TaxAct helps you get a great return by finding every deduction, even the small ones, to maximize your refund. And great returns presented by TaxAct. We look back at the best decisions GMs have made to land an inexpensive player who paid huge dividends down the stretch and owners that have seen their team valuation skyrocket. Look at the Celtics. They had a huge luxury tax bill last summer. They had to figure out how to shed some contracts. They were able to turn Kristaps Porzingis and Drew Holiday.
1:08:05 Bill Simmons? Into basically four months of Anthony Simons and then like an $8 million version of the Porzingis contract and they gave away a couple second round picks. All of a sudden they're under the luxury tax and the guys who are playing for those guys were doing just as well. Shireman, Cada, Hugo Gonzalez, like they just figured out how to patch it together because they were shrewd about it. That's the Celtics. Great Returns was presented by TaxAct. This tax season, simplify your moves, maximize your refund. Visit TaxAct.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See TaxAct.com for details.
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1:10:02 Bill Simmons? All right, our friend Jason Concepcion is here. You can hear him hosting a fairly new Ringer podcast called Wait a Second, which has already gone in a whole bunch of days. I didn't listen to the one this week yet. We did the Havana Syndrome this week.
1:10:14 Speaker 04 Havana Syndrome.
1:10:15 Bill Simmons? Wow.
1:10:15 Speaker 04 Do you believe, is it fake or real from your perspective, though?
1:10:18 Bill Simmons? I don't, I'm not versed on this one as well. I got a deep, I'm gonna listen to your pod and do some deep diving and then.
1:10:24 Speaker 04 Okay.
1:10:25 Bill Simmons? I feel like every like 15 episodes, I should just come on with all of my scattered thoughts on the previous 14.
1:10:31 Speaker 04 We're, we're holding Zodiac.
1:10:34 Bill Simmons? Oh.
1:10:34 Speaker 04 For you.
1:10:35 Bill Simmons? Oh, oh, yeah.
1:10:40 Bill Simmons? I'm ready to roll.
1:10:44 Speaker 04 I got a lot of thoughts about Zodiac for, for a long time. Like, I feel like there's layers.
1:10:48 Bill Simmons? I do feel like our text thread, just for this podcast, with a few others, could almost be like its own Substack. Just us mailing weird Daily Mail things that somebody found.
1:11:00 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah.
1:11:01 Bill Simmons? Yo, what's up with this?
1:11:03 Speaker 04 Yeah, the bullet doesn't match in this. Did you see this?
1:11:05 Bill Simmons? Yeah. All right, couple of things to hit. I want to talk about the podcast at the end, but we gotta talk Knicks first, because we just talked basketball with House. And I was, my dad's coming up after you, who I already recorded with, and I was saying how the Knicks are the one team I don't want the Celtics to play in the playoffs, because I feel like the.
1:11:23 Speaker 04 Interesting.
1:11:23 Bill Simmons? I feel like the Celtics are the one team the Knicks probably feel like, we can beat those guys. And I'm not sure there are other teams on that list.
1:11:31 Speaker 04 Well, I think that our first round matchup, I feel like, is a team that I feel good about.
1:11:36 Bill Simmons? Which one? Who's the first round matchup gonna be?
1:11:38 Speaker 04 I feel, I feel, if it's Philly, I feel pretty good. Now, let me knock on wood and not like start any kind of, but like, that's a team where I feel like I have a reasonable amount of confidence.
1:11:49 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:11:49 Speaker 04 Everybody else, I feel very, I feel increasingly nervous about, including the Celtics, who, listen.
1:11:58 Speaker 04 If you had talked to me in the middle of the season last year before the playoffs, I'd say, you know, no way we touched this. They wipe us off the court and the Knicks dug down and they found something. Is that team still in existence? I don't know. I don't know if we're still that team.
1:12:15 Bill Simmons? I think the weirdest thing about the Knicks, and a lot of people have made this point, I'm not inventing it, is just that their five best guys do not play well together. And now we have lots of math that proves this. And so fundamentally, it's like when these five guys play together, it's not that good and they fall behind. And then bench guys come in and then they rally back. Not a great recipe.
1:12:37 Speaker 04 Starting lineup has been a problem for two years. It's a problem last year. It continues to be a problem. Net rating tells you that you're leaking water with the starting lineup. But and the fact that they are unable to kind of change it lets you know that there's something. It is kind of the crux of the issue with the team. There's some sort of deep seated personality friction that means you can't change the starting lineup of the team. And, you know, I don't know if that's Kat and Mike Brown. I don't know if that's Bridges and Kat or the rest of the team and somebody else. I don't know what it is, but
1:13:21 Speaker 04 it's clearly something and it bubbles up every few games to bedevil the team.
1:13:26 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I guess my biggest question, and I talked about this the other day, how basketball's such a naked sport. We always overrate what we see on a TV and whether guys are getting along like they should and whether they're happy. But I think if you go through, other than Jalen Brunson, if you just go Nick by Nick and you were able to put four drinks in them and after three hours, you're like, hey, I gotta ask you, you happy? How many of them would say yes? I think Alvarado would say he's happy.
1:13:57 Speaker 04 I think Alvarado's loving life.
1:13:59 Bill Simmons? But how many of them would be like, no, no, I love my role. I love the amount of shots I'm getting. I really love playing for Mike Brown. How many people would actually say that if you drug them and asked them for an answer?
1:14:11 Speaker 04 Well, I think we should, we should preface this by noting that.
1:14:18 Speaker 04 There are a lot of guys on this team where no matter what team they've played for in the past, this still would have been an issue.
1:14:25 Bill Simmons? That's true.
1:14:26 Speaker 04 You know, OG was not like loving his role as a Toronto Raptor early.
1:14:32 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:14:33 Speaker 04 So Cat, similarly, there were up and down things. So there's going to be some carryover in that regard, but I think you're right. I think the, I think there are under the surface divisions in the team. I don't know what they are, but you hear whispers about it all the time. And certainly, you know.
1:14:51 Bill Simmons? I have a couple of ideas.
1:14:53 Speaker 04 I have a couple of ideas as well, but certainly when you see them, you know, the game against Houston where it just felt like nobody wants to shoot and they're doing it in this kind of like petulant manner.
1:15:04 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:15:05 Speaker 04 Tossing the ball around like, well, I was told I should, I have to share, so you shoot it. That kind of feeling, everybody kind of uninvolved.
1:15:13 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:15:14 Speaker 04 And it's the kind of thing, like when they went 2-9 or whatever it was earlier in the season, that was, felt like every game. And it feels like that's never going away with this particular group. And I think, you know, part of it is just there's, obviously you feel good about Jalen. Obviously Josh Hart and Jalen are like a solid two. And I think outside of that, there's probably different divisions wherever you look, depending on the circumstance and what's going on.
1:15:48 Bill Simmons? It's because the glass half full that I've heard people point to, well, there's one stretch where like we have had the best defensive rating for the last 30 games. There's only four teams that are in the top eight on both sides, offensive, defensive ratings. So we, that's why you have to take us seriously. But then the flip side of that is, all right, if I'm using ratings and doing that thing, your starting five is the worst starting five by rating of, of all the teams that have a chance to win a title. So what do I do with that if you're telling me to also look at this? I think that's why it's been so confusing.
1:16:19 Speaker 04 Yeah, I don't know what to make of this team from one game, so then it's truly, like I, I don't. I am a supporter of the decision to
1:16:30 Bill Simmons? To untip, to consciously uncouple?
1:16:33 Speaker 04 To consciously uncouple from Tibbs. I think it was the right move. I think we've seen enough of Tibbs, who is a wonderful coach and is the guy, if you're building a culture, get that guy. If you need to build a culture, if you need to build a personality of a team, go get him.
1:16:47 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:16:48 Speaker 04 But I think we've seen enough to understand that there's a ceiling and that there's a certain limitations to what he does.
1:16:55 Speaker 04 But he was able to like get some kind of ferociousness out of this team despite the divisions that existed. And while I think Mike Brown is a nice guy, it's unclear that he is the guy. And that was, the decision to fire Tibbs was always a two-part. For it to be successful, it would have to be a two-part plan. You'd have to, one, get rid of Tibbs, which decided to do that. And then, two, hire the right guy. Is Mike Brown the right guy? I'm not, I'm not sure yet because I don't know what the personality of,
1:17:37 Speaker 04 despite the fact that they are, whatever, a top-five offense and for a time were, you know, a top-five defense. And I think they're middle of the league now. I don't know what the, other than Jalen Brunson late, I'm not sure what the personality of this team is. And under Tibbs, they, they had one, as imperfect as it was.
1:17:58 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that makes sense. Well, you get to a playoff series and you just want to be in a situation where Brunson's trading baskets with whoever the best guy on the other team is, right? That's when this team, we're within four, and now we have our closer and we can actually crack down and get defense. But I think one of the problems for them is that the rest of the league is just better. You know, two years ago, when they didn't have as much talent as they do this year, but two years ago, the league wasn't as good. Now, now you're looking at, even like in the first round, you're playing, like, let's say you played Toronto in the first round, like, Toronto's, Toronto's gonna be almost a 50-1 team. Atlanta's been, what, 22 in the last 22? These are teams that are playing well. This isn't like rollovers.
1:18:42 Speaker 04 No, completely agree. At the same time, the team that I really don't want to play out there is Charlotte. Just because that is, and I don't think there's anybody in the East. Do you want to play Charlotte? Like, there's something about them where they don't know any better and they will just erupt from three and next thing you know, you they will steal a game from you. And that's a team I don't want to play because of the way they play as well.
1:19:09 Bill Simmons? I watched them pretty carefully, the the three games that they lost at home. Or they won the first one, they lost the next two. But it's interesting. The reason you don't want to play them is also the reason you do want to play them.
1:19:20 Speaker 04 That's right.
1:19:21 Bill Simmons? Because with four minutes left, all of a sudden, it's like, all right, Lamela, what do you got? And he's like, watch this, I'm gonna shoot a 38 footer. But then it'll go in. Like, you just like, he's a complete wild card for better or worse. And, you know, Khan's, Khan's 20. Like, you saw some of these more, the Knicks will be able to, I think, wear down Khan and Miller a little bit. Teams are already kind of using the Diabate thing against him. They're pulling him away from the basket. But the Lamela thing's just a wild card for both ways. Like, I feel like he could shoot them out of a 20-point lead with four minutes left in the same way that he could bring them back. I don't know what to make of him.
1:20:00 Speaker 04 Me neither. And the other thing that makes it difficult with the Knicks is obviously you have the Jalen piece, which you can count on. But their other kind of edge is Mitchell Robinson. And you just don't know how many minutes he's going to give you, when he can play.
1:20:15 Bill Simmons? But in the playoffs, you don't have the back-to-back, so you know you're going to actually get him.
1:20:19 Speaker 04 Right. And when he's right, he's a guy that you can, you can kind of plant your flag on. But then you have all the issues of fit with Cat, and now what happens there? I mean, really, the Cat piece is the one. Because everything could be, it's like, we're trying to reverse engineer a way that this team could work if it would, if it, and all you need to do is just like, hey, can Cat just like, get with the program?
1:20:46 Bill Simmons? Right.
1:20:47 Speaker 04 On a night-to-night basis, right? His defensively has been improved, that's great. But like, can the shot also be there? Can the rotations also be there? Can the screen setting also be there? Can the not just?
1:21:02 Speaker 04 Weird temper tantrums not be there. Can all these things be there on a consistent night to night basis? And you just wonder, it's hard to know. He's a mercurial guy. And this has always been a thing for, that's another thing that's, this is not, didn't start now.
1:21:16 Bill Simmons? Right. The crazy fouls. So
1:21:19 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:21:19 Bill Simmons? I'm sure you're on a slew of Knicks text threads.
1:21:22 Speaker 04 Yes. Yes.
1:21:24 Bill Simmons? Who is the most polarizing player on the text threads?
1:21:28 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:21:29 Bill Simmons? Is it, is it Kat?
1:21:30 Speaker 04 It's Kat and Bridges.
1:21:32 Bill Simmons? All right. So what, what are, what are the Bridges complaints?
1:21:36 Speaker 04 The Bridges complaints is, though, let me preface this by saying, we need to forget about the draft picks.
1:21:44 Bill Simmons? Right. Some cost.
1:21:45 Speaker 04 It's water. It, it happened. It's water under the bridge. It happened. It's gone. It's done. Uh, that said, like, you know, in private spaces with your Knicks fan friends, if you're gonna talk about the draft picks, you're gonna talk about it and you're gonna be like, God, you know, where was he? Where he disappeared for this period of time? I think he's been consistent for the team, but consistent at a level that was not kind of the level that I think you were expecting initially going in. So he's a divisive guy.
1:22:14 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Cause you do that trade, assuming it basically guarantees that you're going to be at at least one finals. You're giving up all those assets. You
1:22:23 Speaker 04 Right.
1:22:24 Bill Simmons? You're trying to lock down something.
1:22:27 Speaker 04 Right. And by the way, like, I still think the logic behind all of these moves is pretty sound. You can't hit every bet. You're not gonna, you're not gonna win every single bet. I think these were calculated moves. It's an open question about whether they will pay off and just, you know, to what level. But I think the underlying logic still makes sense. Like, we were gonna face Boston a million times in the playoffs. And so you want these two rugged wing defenders to try and slow them down somehow, the Brown and Tatum. And that makes sense on paper. It just hasn't, despite the fact that we did beat the Celtics last year, and that was one of the greatest moments of my life. We, you know, we'll see what happens
1:23:12 Speaker 04 this year. The Celtics look very, very scary. You know, and Tatum is like, has like Wolverine mutant healing factor.
1:23:22 Bill Simmons? Pretty crazy.
1:23:23 Speaker 04 I don't know how this happened. Like is starting to look like that guy again.
1:23:27 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:23:27 Speaker 04 And they just look unbelievable. So we'll see what happens.
1:23:32 Bill Simmons? All right. So it sounds like you're more glass half full, glass half empty than glass half full.
1:23:37 Speaker 04 No, I'm, let me be clear. I have made peace with whatever will happen.
1:23:42 Bill Simmons? Okay.
1:23:42 Speaker 04 There's gonna be, Mike Brown is gonna be held to a standard that honestly, I get it. Like if they don't make at least the conference finals and do well there.
1:23:53 Bill Simmons? You have to get past round two. You have to.
1:23:55 Speaker 04 Right. They have to. They can lose in the conference finals, but it can't be like five games. They have to do well.
1:24:04 Speaker 04 And he's gonna be held to that standard. And if they don't, then it's not a success. And I think that's slightly unfair to him, but that's life. And I've made my peace with that.
1:24:12 Bill Simmons? Can I tell you the dumbest thing they did? Not just trying to get the four seed.
1:24:16 Speaker 04 Sure.
1:24:18 Bill Simmons? Like go backwards. Honestly.
1:24:20 Speaker 04 Well, I think it's.
1:24:22 Bill Simmons? I would much rather be in the four seed and, and play Detroit, a team that you know you can beat. And just have the four or five matchup and then rest all these dudes come up. Cause honestly, I think this is what Cleveland's doing. I don't trust what Cleveland's doing at all right now. I think they're delighted to be the four seed.
1:24:41 Speaker 04 I.
1:24:42 Bill Simmons? I thought that Lakers game was really weird by them. I, I didn't really understand it. And I know Luca's playing great, but I just think that's a game. Like if you're trying to win the title, you're like, we have our guys. Let's fucking go.
1:24:55 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:24:55 Bill Simmons? Let's lay the smack down. This team's a contender. We're in LA and they like, they were out of that game from the get go. It's weird. I don't think they care.
1:25:03 Speaker 04 I, I, I agree with you. I'll say this for why I don't think the, if the Knicks were a team like the grit and grind Grizzlies in the middle of the run, right? Where they know who they are.
1:25:15 Bill Simmons? Right.
1:25:16 Speaker 04 Or if they were, you know, the mid period Spurs, right? And they, they rock solid. They know who they are.
1:25:22 Bill Simmons? You go on cruise control for two weeks.
1:25:24 Speaker 04 Cruise control. Coach has been there for a million years. Your veteran guys are pillars of the team. I think you can do that. I think with a team that is still dealing with the changes that happened from, you know, the previous two seasons and that has made a drastic, like a, a significant coaching change. And has had the owner go on radio and say like, we have the group to win the finals. I, I, there's a lot of reasons why I don't think you could do it. I think you'd need to be a more established in the postseason club for that to work.
1:25:58 Bill Simmons? I think that's fair. Well, can we talk about the most positive element of this next season? I think the incredible, incredible performance by celebrities every game.
1:26:08 Bill Simmons? I think it's the most star packed group they've had night to night and you have real regulars now. You have people that were going when the team was fucking terrible that are just minted. No one's gonna be loyal to those people for life. Matthew Modine. Modine, wherever you want to sit, just tell us. Yes, Zaslove. You have like the random Larry David will come back, but just in general, like they've, they, I, I think it's better than what the Lakers have going right now, to be honest.
1:26:36 Speaker 04 I think you're right. And some of them, you know, Modine is, I mean, Modine is an OG at this point. There was the, you know, the Knicks did a 50 greatest moments at MSG documentary that aired on the MSG network that is narrated by Matthew Modine. This is from, it must be 12, 15 years ago. So like he's been around. Imperiali is always there. Hargitay is always there. And then lately you've had like Ed Sheeran. Aaron Judge is there all the time. Tracy Morgan through, Stiller is there, like bidding for like.
1:27:09 Bill Simmons? Cooper Hoffman?
1:27:11 Speaker 04 Cooper Hoffman. Uh, Chalamet is like maybe our next Spike Lee.
1:27:16 Bill Simmons? Well, oh yeah. And, and Spike Lee, but do you, what happened? Do you get Chalamet for the playoffs? Or does he kind of, is he going hiding after the Oscars? I feel like he's got to lay low for a while here.
1:27:29 Speaker 04 No, I think, I think after a disappointment like the Oscars, where I think you could argue maybe narrative had, had something to do with.
1:27:40 Speaker 04 The showing, I think you recharge your batteries. I think you go to where you're comfortable and where people love you and where you're, you know, you're part of the atmosphere. And I think you go back to MSG in that atmosphere and you just recharge. Like those shots of, that's Timmy at his most charming and his most seemingly authentic. Like it's clear that he loves the Knicks and has for a long time. I think you, I think you go. I think you absolutely go.
1:28:08 Bill Simmons? So this is basically Dirk Diggler going back to Jack Horner's house at the end of Boogie Night.
1:28:12 Speaker 04 Exactly. That's exactly right.
1:28:15 Bill Simmons? Jack.
1:28:15 Speaker 04 You know, go back to where it started, Jack.
1:28:19 Bill Simmons? He goes to James Dole, Jim, will you help me? Can I sit courtside again, please?
1:28:26 Speaker 04 Come inside. It's okay.
1:28:29 Bill Simmons? Come on. I have, I have a game, game five tickets for you.
1:28:31 Speaker 04 Yeah. Hey, you want to sit next to Zavala?
1:28:35 Speaker 04 And McEnroe?
1:28:36 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Oh yeah. McEnroe, that's another one. I, I think the Knicks, I really think they're beating the Lakers pretty handily right now.
1:28:43 Speaker 04 It's, it's a good run.
1:28:44 Bill Simmons? The Lakers were never able to recover from Nicholson just getting really old. They never were able to audible. Denzel's not around enough. Leo's not reliable enough.
1:28:54 Speaker 04 That's true.
1:28:54 Bill Simmons? They've never nailed it. And honestly, Nicholson's kid, I just don't think he can carry it. The lack of name recognition really hurts him.
1:29:03 Speaker 04 Well, let's, let me just note that Flea is there every game.
1:29:07 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:29:07 Speaker 04 Diane Cannon is there every game.
1:29:09 Bill Simmons? That's the thing. You have like 20 Flea.
1:29:11 Speaker 04 Is there a lot? Yeah, that's true.
1:29:13 Bill Simmons? Will Ferrell's a good one.
1:29:15 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:29:16 Bill Simmons? They're gonna have to.
1:29:17 Speaker 04 There's still people.
1:29:19 Bill Simmons? To lean in. All right. Well, you sound semi optimistic. Um, Survivor, you've been watching. You didn't see last night. Survivor 50.
1:29:26 Speaker 04 That's right.
1:29:26 Bill Simmons? Which I think has been the first Survivor series that really parallels what it's like to follow like basketball or professional team sports.
1:29:35 Speaker 04 What makes you say that?
1:29:37 Bill Simmons? Younger, younger people who are in their primes, older people trying to hang on, trying to, maybe they weren't what they were 20 years ago, but they had the expertise and the, and the know-how and. All the same things about the show that drives me crazy. Just blown up personified, like they always get rid of whoever the best looking people are. I gotta get rid of them. Whoever the most charismatic people are, let's get them out of here too. And we just end up with like the quietest, like most manipulative, calculating people. It's always how the show goes.
1:30:11 Speaker 04 Well, do you watch traitors this season?
1:30:14 Bill Simmons? Of course I did. Come on. Who are you talking to?
1:30:17 Speaker 04 I felt like Rob, I think he would be great on Survivor.
1:30:23 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:30:23 Speaker 04 His ability, I mean, you put your finger on something. His ability to play into his looks in a way that makes you think that guy's great looking, but he's dumb.
1:30:35 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:30:35 Speaker 04 You know, he's not, there's nothing there and just lay in the cut quietly.
1:30:40 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:30:41 Speaker 04 You know, being the hot dumb guy and then all of a sudden make moves. I think, I, I understand that Jeff Probst feels a type of way about other reality shows. But I think that guy would be, I, I think he would be incredible. Like he ran the table. It was, it was an unreal performance. Get that guy on whatever the next Survivor All-Star season is. Because I think it would be incredible.
1:31:07 Bill Simmons? And that show is so much harder to pull off than Survivor because they put you in these rooms. And it's like you're eating with your other, with your other traitors, right? It's just the three of you and then like Lisa Rinna comes in and she's like, hey, you guys. Never dawns on her that maybe they put the three people together that are the traitors. They, it's really like a dumb collection of people for the most part. This Survivor, one of the cool things about 50 was these people, they played it. They've watched all the seasons. You have people on there that have studied every season and all the things. They can remember every mistake or thing any other opponent did. So it almost moves to this like higher level of chess. I've, I've really been into it.
1:31:48 Speaker 04 I've been into it too. And obviously don't tell me.
1:31:53 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I'm not gonna tell you.
1:31:54 Speaker 04 But I gotta say against my better, against my original hesitance. I'm like gravitating to the Riz god. Something about his arrogance, the way he, Ben, he is.
1:32:09 Speaker 04 A cocky dude, but in a great way.
1:32:12 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:32:12 Speaker 04 He did a thing in the previous season where it seemed like he was gonna use his, um, his immunity, hidden immunity idol, and he didn't do it in this, in a way that was like, just let people know that he had read the game in a fantastic way. Reminds me of like, Phil Ivey, like peak Phil Ivey at the poker table. And it's been, it's been fun to watch him. I think a great example of a, of a person who maybe overplayed a little bit is the great Mike White.
1:32:45 Bill Simmons? Oh, let's talk about that. Yeah, he, I think he felt like the fame factor and people's, people's desire to have a cameo in season five of White Lotus and season seven was gonna carry him to the final fours about. And he clearly got played, like completely.
1:33:03 Speaker 04 It worked for Angelina. Like, I, I think it worked a little bit.
1:33:06 Bill Simmons? But it wasn't gonna work twice.
1:33:08 Speaker 04 It wasn't gonna work twice. Well, it's interesting because he,
1:33:13 Speaker 04 you know, it's, it's fascinating how people get in their feelings. It's like you're manipulating people, but then when you get called out for manipulating, you're like, but you're manipulating. He tried to manipulate Christian, who in their, uh, season, uh, Davids versus Goliath, Christian had a kind of unshakable alliance with this, uh, other contestant named Gabby, who eventually betrayed him. And he like, Mike tried to use that against him, which immediately made Christian think, Mike's trying to use this against me. I think he's too dangerous. I gotta get him out.
1:33:46 Bill Simmons? Yeah, Christian's.
1:33:46 Speaker 04 Fascinating turn.
1:33:47 Bill Simmons? He's basically a sociopath. Like, he, he's looking at everything. I don't know who's gonna win, but he would be one of the ones I would pick, cuz he's, he's playing the game the hardest, putting the most thought into it, but isn't obviously a threat. I don't, the thing I never understand with Survivor, I would just think the four kind of strongest, most athletic people should just be like, let's just fucking the four of us, we'll figure it out when we get to four. We'll just win every challenge. Let's go out for each other and that's it.
1:34:18 Speaker 04 I think the problem with that particular, I, I also watch, uh, Australian Survivor, in which that is a more viable, that's a viable strategy in Australian Survivor that is, because it's a lot more physical than, than American Survivor, but.
1:34:33 Bill Simmons? You don't think it can work in America?
1:34:34 Speaker 04 I don't think it can work because it's been sniffed out as a strategy for years now.
1:34:39 Bill Simmons? People trying to cut it out. Yeah, cuz you could see it in 50. They were just trying to get rid of the best challenge people right away.
1:34:45 Speaker 04 That's exactly what, you know, I kind of like that about American Survivor is they're like, that person's too good.
1:34:52 Bill Simmons? Yeah, but here's what I don't like is Siri who like, anytime they have like odd numbers, it's like Siri's gonna be sitting out this challenge. It's like, what the fuck is she there for? She said, has anyone sat out more challenges than her and somehow she'll make the final three? It's like, come on.
1:35:07 Speaker 04 Uh, I, I just simply cannot criticize a legend if they're letting her get that loophole. They, they, you know, good for her. That said, politically.
1:35:17 Bill Simmons? Get her out. She's the, she's the best strategist.
1:35:20 Speaker 04 So you have to be careful with her because it's, it's the fact that people leave her around. And then she forges all these relationships with people who genuinely like her.
1:35:32 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:35:32 Speaker 04 And then when she starts trading information and being like, well, you know, who said this? And here's this. That's when she gets really dangerous late game and you never know what would happen. I just think in, in American Survivor, if you are dominating physically, you've got a target on your back. They can't wait to get you out.
1:35:49 Bill Simmons? I love that you're banging out Australian Survivor and doing the compare and contrast. That's really next level. I didn't, where do you even find Australian Survivor? Is it like YouTube?
1:35:59 Speaker 04 No, it's on, well, I have a, I have a VPN. I pay for a VPN.
1:36:05 Bill Simmons? You're amazing.
1:36:06 Speaker 04 Only to watch Australian Survivor. It's literally the only thing I do with it on the 10-play network. And let me tell you, you get all the Australian commercials. Um, I've learned a ton about Australian culture through the lens of their commercials as I watch Australian Survivor on a week to week basis. Some of it is really great. And let me say this, there's a character named, he calls himself King George.
1:36:28 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:36:29 Speaker 04 And when I tell you. When I tell you, Bill, his second appearance on the program, which I believe is All Stars, is the most incredible run of Survivor politicking I've ever... He is not a physical character, and he was faced off against like these beefy, you know, like stud athletes who were thinking time and time again, like, this is the type of person, like, I stuff in a locker, no problem, we're getting this guy out.
1:36:59 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:36:59 Speaker 04 And because this guy, George, was like a, he's like a political consultant, he was able to like flip arguments in a way that I have never seen before, ever, and bring like these grown, muscular people like to the brink of tears, time and time again, with just his words. It's an incredible experience, you gotta see it if you can.
1:37:25 Bill Simmons? What would be your strategy if you were on Survivor? What would be your...
1:37:29 Speaker 04 Divide and conquer. I'm gonna go in, I'm gonna talk to everyone, not about the game, or at least hopefully seemingly, just, you know, chat about your life and what's going on, isn't it crazy that we're here, you know, just get little bits of information. I wanna touch base with everyone so that I have some perspective about potential gameplay strategy, perspectives, the way people might hopefully go through the game. And then I will start, when the time is right, just putting information out there, hopefully getting information back.
1:38:07 Bill Simmons? Information trading.
1:38:08 Speaker 04 You know, information trading. But the number one thing is, you've just got to, you can't, you see it happen time and time again in Survivor. People get in a funk, they get, they get, the numbers are against them, and they're sitting on the beach alone. You gotta get out and you gotta talk to people. You gotta get out of your head and you just gotta walk up to them and talk about whatever. The beach, where are you going to the bathroom? Where's the best place to take a piss around here? Where do you think the idols are? Like, whatever, what are you, what are you eating? You know, and just make some sort of connection that you can use. And if you don't do that, you're just not gonna go anywhere.
1:38:43 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that's right or near what I would be doing. I would be trying to just build relationships. Cause I think those are, I think you actually build real friendships. It makes it harder for people to turn on you. But I also think you can't be sneaky and you can't lie. Like if you're doing the thing where you're walking around, like I'm gonna, I'm, I'm gonna go look for an idol. You don't want to tell anyone, you're looking for an idol. And then somebody, what were you doing out there? And it's like, oh, I had to go to the bathroom and you just look like you were burying a body. I just feel like I was fucking looking for an idol. I know there's one out there. What, what else are we doing? There's no TV. I'm gonna, I walked around for two hours. I tried to find, see if there was an idol.
1:39:23 Speaker 04 So that means you wouldn't do the thing like, like Jeff Kent or Cliff Robinson, may he rest in peace, or, or Scott Pollard, where you go in and you try to pretend that you're just some guy. Like, oh, you know, I work in accounting. You wouldn't do that.
1:39:41 Bill Simmons? Oh, if it was actually like me trying to, being worried somebody would recognize me.
1:39:46 Speaker 04 Yes.
1:39:49 Bill Simmons? I would, I would probably bring it up. I think it's weirder not to mention it. If somebody's like, what do you do? And it's like, oh, yeah, I'm in media.
1:40:00 Bill Simmons? Doing, uh, you know, some audio stuff.
1:40:03 Speaker 04 You'd have to change your voice, I think, I think, you know, like if there's a way people are gonna recognize you. Yeah, for sure. I'd have to be like, hey, guys, what's up? Hey, Survivor, love the program.
1:40:13 Bill Simmons? No, I, I would be, I just don't think you can be sneaky ever. The moment you're sneaky, people file it away and they don't trust you from that point on. So you just have to be transparent about it. I, the thing I'd be the most worried about is what T-shirt I was wearing. I would think about that all the time. It's like, if I got on a Survivor for the next two months, I'd be like, what am I gonna do? Is it Boston T-shirt too cliched? Do a band? Do I do like a Ringer T-shirt? Just own it? Wait, cause like-
1:40:41 Speaker 04 When's the last time you, oh, you go ahead, sorry.
1:40:43 Bill Simmons? Well, Kirsten has that one weird T-shirt he has that he wears every day, right? And it's just like a bad T-shirt. It's like, that was it? That was the best one? But I, they probably can't wear anything that's trademarked, right? You can't wear bands. Maybe you can't wear a sports team.
1:40:57 Speaker 04 Correct.
1:40:58 Bill Simmons? So I don't know. I would spend a lot of time thinking about shit like that.
1:41:01 Speaker 04 As I understand it, they ask you to, you know, you bring your own clothes and then they go through what you brought and tell you what you can bring to wear. During the game.
1:41:11 Bill Simmons? You probably want like a thicker T-shirt. I'd want shorts that were a little longer because you're sitting and you don't want like them to have to ever have to blur your crotch because one of your balls was hanging out or something. Don't want that. Um, but I would be terrible at Survivor because the McContact lunges and allergies. I'd be a fucking mess.
1:41:31 Speaker 04 Well, I think they give you, they would probably give you medication. They let you take your Claritin and you know, like people are who wear glasses like Genevieve this season and Christian, sometimes they have them, sometimes they don't. So it's clear that they let them have access to their lenses.
1:41:47 Bill Simmons? Hmm.
1:41:48 Speaker 04 At times. So I think you'd be okay there. Mike, like when's the last time you slept outside?
1:41:54 Bill Simmons? Oh, I would hate that. Oh my God. I never, even as a kid, I didn't like that. Yeah, that'd be tough. I, I would like, if I knew I was going on, I would definitely, you, you'd have to learn how to make fire, all the stuff that made the first season so much fun when they had no idea how to do anything. Um, and then probably try to make like two or three real friends when you're on there.
1:42:16 Speaker 04 Yeah, that's what you gotta do.
1:42:18 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Cause I, I think that, that's when like people like Siri, that's why she lasts because she's a good hang and everybody's like, no, I like having her around. Whereas Mike White, there was a little like, oh, Mike White, you think you're better than me? You think you're better than me, White Lotus guy? And they fucking got him out.
1:42:36 Speaker 04 You know what I would do? I, I talk about this with my wife all the time. I would, if I got on, I'd be like, give me the HGH, get me the trainer.
1:42:45 Bill Simmons? Right.
1:42:45 Speaker 04 Who does Hemsworth and gets him ready for Thor.
1:42:48 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:42:48 Speaker 04 And I want to get like in shape that would get me eliminated from the Olympics. Like I want to be ready to go. Like Mike White looked, Mike White was like that. Mike White had the washboards all of a sudden. Where'd that come from?
1:43:04 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he was jacked.
1:43:05 Speaker 04 And I want to, I, I want to get jacked. I don't want to have a situation where I go out there and I'm like, oh man, I look terrible out there. I gotta get jacked.
1:43:13 Bill Simmons? The one persona that seems to work over and over again is strong, friendly and dumb.
1:43:20 Speaker 04 Yes.
1:43:21 Bill Simmons? If you hit those three things in a row, you're gonna make it to the final five. You're not a threat because people think you're too dumb to be a threat. But usually they're smarter than how dumb they seem. And they're a good hang. They're usually from, you know, not a typical city. And people just seem to gravitate to those guys. And those have been a lot of the most popular Survivor people.
1:43:41 Speaker 04 Yeah, I agree. I, I, I think another secret too is you need, no, no matter what alliances you get into, you need the one rock solid alliance that you're going to go to the final three with. Like, that's it.
1:43:57 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:43:57 Speaker 04 Whatever else we talk about with whoever else we talk about it with, it's you and me and we're going there. And if you have that, then you can build other things on top of that. Like that's, and you saw it with Tony and Sarah Lucina.
1:44:12 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:44:12 Speaker 04 When you have that, that is a way to go deep into the game.
1:44:17 Bill Simmons? I can't believe the-
1:44:17 Speaker 04 And then let's lie more too.
1:44:18 Bill Simmons? I can't believe the show still works.
1:44:21 Speaker 04 It does.
1:44:21 Bill Simmons? It's unbelievable. I remember summer of 2000, I was living in Boston. It was like one of the hottest summers we ever had. And, um, career wasn't going amazing at that point. It was, I was right in the thing, but it was okay. And the Lakers won the, won the first Kobe Shaq title that year. And the Celtics were, every Boston team was terrible. The Yankees had just won. The Lakers now were, had this new dynasty coming. And I was just like, what the fuck? Like, like, what good thing is gonna happen? And Survivor's happening as that's going on. And I was just, didn't like Richard Hatch and I was hoping he would win. And then he fucking won the first season.
1:45:05 Bill Simmons? I was like, I'm just never winning anything ever again. And then Tom Brady showed up a year later and everything was fine.
1:45:11 Speaker 04 And then, you know, Hatch has turned out to be kind of a gritty fellow in his own regard. It's funny to go back and watch those two, those old seasons because-
1:45:19 Bill Simmons? He was just rude. He was naked all the time. It was, it was awful.
1:45:23 Speaker 04 Naked all the time. A bad guy.
1:45:25 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:45:25 Speaker 04 And then see, you know, and then it's, it's a microcosm too of just like the culture. Remember when they did- Cook Islands, 2006, and they divided everybody by race, the race war. And then
1:45:36 Bill Simmons? I almost can't
1:45:37 Speaker 04 Episode, episode two, they realized, oh, bad idea. And they were just like, hey, guys, forget it. We're scrapping the tribes and we're just, and guess everybody reaching the bag. You're getting a new buff and everybody's getting mixed up. That was a crazy idea. We're not doing that.
1:45:54 Bill Simmons? Oh, my God. What, who's the oldest person who's been on?
1:45:59 Speaker 04 Good question.
1:46:03 Bill Simmons? Like, they've gone into their 60s a couple of times, right?
1:46:06 Speaker 04 Yeah, there's a good question, and there has been a woman in her 60s. And now I'm not sure if I'm mixing this up with Australian Survivor, but the, uh, no, wait, there was the Navy SEAL guy, Rudy. He was like 70 something.
1:46:23 Bill Simmons? Right.
1:46:24 Speaker 04 And Seri's getting up there, too.
1:46:26 Bill Simmons? I was thinking, uh, been an interesting show for my daughter. Cause she'd be really good at the challenges, but I think the food would ultimately kill her. Like, she really enjoys, like, making meals, thinking about what she's gonna eat. And if it was just like the rice and you never know, I, I, I feel like she'd unravel. My son would be probably much better off, but I can't imagine what it would be like to have somebody you know on this show. And then they come back and you're just like, what happened? I can't tell you. And you're just like studying every face they make for the
1:47:00 Speaker 04 I, I can't imagine having someone I know go on. And I've had like multiple, like friends try out and get like within the couple of rounds, you know,
1:47:13 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:47:14 Speaker 04 ex-ringer colleague, Sean Yu, got to like the third interview.
1:47:17 Bill Simmons? I forgot about that.
1:47:19 Speaker 04 I'm like breaking news here on the podcast, but yeah, he got like, he got close.
1:47:24 Bill Simmons? Wow. The, the closest experience I had to this is a friend of mine from college actually got on Jeopardy. And couldn't tell us what happened, but won a couple of episodes. My friend Cara McDermott from college. And it was the most exciting, just rooting for her, not knowing if she was gonna win or not was like, so I can't even imagine. What Survivor would be like. Anyway, Survivor's back. Who knew? Survivor 50. Probes.
1:47:54 Bill Simmons? You know, they're doing a lot of wide shots with him this year.
1:47:59 Speaker 04 I think he looks great.
1:48:00 Bill Simmons? He looks great. Maybe he overdid it 10%. That would be my note.
1:48:05 Speaker 04 Well, here's um. A theory a friend has is that. They're using the um, the dimples to tuck the stuff in there. That's how they're doing it is to tighten everything up. They tuck it in the dimple.
1:48:17 Bill Simmons? Interesting.
1:48:18 Speaker 04 Yeah, but I think he looks great. I think he looks great.
1:48:21 Bill Simmons? Just be careful, but you don't want to.
1:48:22 Speaker 04 Be careful.
1:48:23 Bill Simmons? Move too close to the sick freedom Royd area like just, just tiptoe it.
1:48:28 Speaker 04 Move the camera back a little bit.
1:48:30 Bill Simmons? Tiptoe it. Yeah, it's still great.
1:48:31 Speaker 04 Watch that harsh light.
1:48:32 Bill Simmons? There's so many bad reality shows like my wife was watching this show on a boat where you walk the plank and people, the plank gets, you just fall into the sea if you get voted out. It's like, wow, we've really run out of ideas with these, but Survivor 50 is still kicking it. All right. Wait a second.
1:48:50 Speaker 04 Yes.
1:48:50 Bill Simmons? Your fairly new podcast. I think I'm coming back to talk Zodiac at some point, but.
1:48:55 Speaker 04 We gotta talk Zodiac.
1:48:56 Bill Simmons? There's gonna be a lot of good stuff going. What's the feedback then? People, people like when this stuff exists. When they have other maniacs like us talking about this stuff.
1:49:06 Speaker 04 The feedback's been really great. I'm getting people bugging me to do. Various topics, including Gladio, which was a, a secret NATO program to have. Like partisans behind communist lines if the communists invaded Europe and then that those groups potentially were. Connected to various right wing terror campaigns throughout mostly Italy. There's a lot of crazy conspiratorial stuff that is. Less crazy when you dig into it. And that's what we aim to do is, is get into the crazy stuff, but also be like, okay. What is actually here? Like the JFK one is a great example of.
1:49:49 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:49:50 Speaker 04 You know, over the, over the years, one thing is become clear is it's 100%. There is a cover up. It's basically been admitted like, yes, there's, forget who killed him. There is a cover up going on about what all happened there, in particular with relations to Cuba.
1:50:10 Bill Simmons? Yeah, cuz the conceit of the pod was always stuff that made you go.
1:50:16 Speaker 04 Yeah, wait, what?
1:50:17 Bill Simmons? Wait, what, what's going on?
1:50:19 Speaker 04 What happened?
1:50:19 Bill Simmons? So one of the recent ones we were batting around was this one where the scientists just keep disappearing or getting murdered?
1:50:25 Speaker 04 Yes.
1:50:25 Bill Simmons? And we're up to like eight? And clearly something's happening? So it's less, it's less a conspiracy pod, more of a curiosity pod is how I describe it to people.
1:50:36 Speaker 04 Let me say about the scientists, it is up to eight. Only three of them are actually mysterious. So let me put the five aside cuz there's one that was, there's several that were murders and it's clear who did it. And it's like, there's either family connection or something like around the neighborhood and it all ties up. It makes a lot of sense. The three who we don't know what happened are really, really weird, including one who was like videoed miles away from their house, walking in some random neighborhood, like without their phone, without their anything. Another one who left with like a loaded gun and no identification, like there's, those are weird.
1:51:16 Bill Simmons? Yeah, well, and then that we, we didn't do a full episode on Savannah Guthrie yet cuz there weren't a lot of places to go. But that's, that's, so there's like some sort of line of, I don't even know what that episode would be. That story's just awful. And I don't even, I don't even really know what the conspiracy theories would be about it yet. But the scientist one, there's a little more meat cuz of like what you just said about, all right, not only was the, was the person dead, but there's, what's up with this video? Why did that happen?
1:51:49 Speaker 04 Yeah, and never found.
1:51:51 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:51:51 Speaker 04 And when you, and when you think about it in the context of, I mean, listen, you know, the, the the US has been involved in programs to assassinate Iranian nuclear scientists, like is, could it be that there's a program to hit or kidnap our scientists? Like, it's not unheard of.
1:52:10 Bill Simmons? Seems realistic.
1:52:12 Speaker 04 It seems realistic to think about, you know, there have been numerous military personnel, both from the US, US Air Force and from Britain's air forces that have been charged and convicted of.
1:52:28 Speaker 04 Helping the Chinese pilots get better and providing them with services like could the could that be could that be part of what's going on? There's a lot of like hmm things happening like it's like the did you see the story about the two recent illegal bio labs that were discovered one in California and one in Las Vegas?
1:52:47 Bill Simmons? Yeah. And one of them like nobody even knew there was anything in the area.
1:52:53 Speaker 04 Yeah, it was like somebody saw a hose connected to a parapet. Like what is that? They called like a code enforcer and they found like Ebola and you know AIDS virus and like monkeys in cages and weird stuff. Yeah, I mean like what's that about?
1:53:10 Bill Simmons? All right.
1:53:11 Speaker 04 So there's a lot of these types of stories, especially these days.
1:53:13 Bill Simmons? All right. It's wait a second. It's you. It's Tyler Parker. I'm popping on at some point over the next couple of episodes. And I will I will see you soon. I'm sure. Thanks for coming on.
1:53:25 Speaker 04 Thanks for having me.
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1:54:42 Bill Simmons? All right, we're taping this Thursday afternoon. My dad is in Boston. We have the Celtics nearing the end of the regular season headed for a two seed and almost as important, we have a Red Sox season that feels like it's in a lot of trouble. So I don't know.
1:54:56 Speaker 05 I think it's all over.
1:54:58 Bill Simmons? One in five year out?
1:55:02 Speaker 05 I might be.
1:55:03 Bill Simmons? What? All right. You want to talk Red Sox first?
1:55:05 Speaker 05 It's hard to talk Red Sox. They've been looking so terribly and terrible. And the lineup is atrocious.
1:55:14 Bill Simmons? Yeah, last year they could hit lefties and they had Ref Snyder and Roma Gonzalez who started Ref Snyder's in Seattle. And at least like when they played lefties, you were like, oh, this is going to be good. This year, um, the lineup against lefties was an abomination. The lineup they had yesterday where they had, what was it? Durbin was six, so doesn't have a hit yet. Connor Wong, who somehow has five hits this season was ninth. And then who was the guy that was eighth? I'm blanking. It was somebody, oh, IKEA, Kiner Falafa.
1:55:45 Speaker 05 Your favorite, your favorite new player.
1:55:47 Bill Simmons? Oh, my God. They signed him for $6 million bucks. The sad thing is I talked myself into this team before the season in spring training. I was like, oh, hiatus, we have pitching, we have a bullpen, the rest, Roman will make a leap, we'll figure it out. And then you watch for six days and I'm panicking.
1:56:02 Speaker 05 Well, you know, the, the management, the general manager sold this team on, when he couldn't sign Alonso and other big hitters, he sold this team on pitching and defense.
1:56:13 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:56:13 Speaker 05 The pitching been horrendous and the defense has been terrible.
1:56:17 Bill Simmons? Yeah. I think they have an error every game, right?
1:56:20 Speaker 05 Yeah. And, and he said it would, it would make up for the, um, lack of a big slugger coming in here to hit third or fourth. Do you have a lot of confidence in Contreras turning things around?
1:56:32 Bill Simmons? No. I mean, the Durbin was the big one because they traded Kyle Harrison for him, who they got in the, uh, in the Devers trade, which nobody saw from that trade. And then he's, he looks good for the Brewers and Durbin, who, when they signed him, my nerd Red Sox fan friends went nuts because he was in the bottom 6% of swing, swing speed. He had like one of the, he was in the 94th percentile of slow bats.
1:56:58 Speaker 05 This sounds like, is this a hench statistic?
1:57:01 Bill Simmons? Yeah, the hench was pretty focused on it.
1:57:03 Speaker 05 Okay.
1:57:04 Bill Simmons? And he was really worried about his slow bat speed. And then it was even worse watching in person. And now, the way the announcers are talking about him, it's like he's dead, but he's, he's still coming up for a bat to game.
1:57:15 Speaker 05 Well, you know, the bat speed, that's an interesting, I didn't see that, but he can't catch up to the fastball.
1:57:21 Bill Simmons? No, no, not so far anyway.
1:57:23 Speaker 05 Not, not.
1:57:24 Bill Simmons? He's, he was so bad that on one of my Red Sox threads, we were going through the worst Red Sox hitters we've seen in our lifetime, with Bob Bailey in 1978 being the, being the worst one, but also Tony Pena's last season. There's been some bad ones. There's like bad free agents like Jack Clark. But this guy, like, he batted six yesterday with, in a start for Crochet. And, you know, he was just felt like he was an automatic out when he came up.
1:57:51 Speaker 05 I mean, the, the obvious problem is they have no alternative. Even Meyer, Mayer, Meyer.
1:57:58 Bill Simmons? Meyer.
1:57:59 Speaker 05 Looks terrible. He's hitting 200. They thought of moving him to third, but he's not hitting.
1:58:04 Bill Simmons? He's Roman's best friend, though. He's on the team for the next 15 years. So we, we need him to start hitting because he's going to be his subject.
1:58:11 Speaker 05 Struck out four times on Tuesday night.
1:58:14 Bill Simmons? All the guys who were in the WBC. Well, the craziest yet, I've watched every game. Yesterday, they're down 6-3 in Houston. Houston's just killing them and Houston looks like a completely different team. So they bring in Whitlock to get some work. And this guy, Cam Smith, who's on the Astros, who ironically is now on my AL keeper team. So I'm a little invested in him. And he has a 14 pitch at bat against Whitlock. And all of a sudden Whitlock's over 30 pitches and the announcers are like, oh God, he's never thrown this many pitches in an inning. And it's like, what's happening? He shouldn't even be out there. But it's like, everything that can go wrong has gone wrong. And you can really feel it with the, with the voices of the announcers, the way they're talking about it.
1:58:57 Bill Simmons? Like they're, because they don't want to be too critical, but they can't also think of anything positive to say. So it's a lot of, oh, what a start, ah.
1:59:06 Speaker 05 One of them, I think Maloney in the beginning of the game said, you know, we're one and four. He mentioned a team that's one and five. Said, we can't be one and five. We can't go there.
1:59:15 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:59:16 Speaker 05 Well, we're one and five.
1:59:17 Bill Simmons? Yeah, well, and they lost a crochet start.
1:59:20 Speaker 05 Crochet, yeah. I had a lot of confidence that Crochet would turn it around yesterday, but you know, Houston kills us. Certain teams that we, when we go to Houston, we play poorly every year in Houston.
1:59:35 Bill Simmons? And somehow their guys never change. Like Correa is back on Houston now. It's like, I thought he was gone. Why do you have him again? And he's killing us.
1:59:45 Speaker 05 I agree. I thought he was on Minnesota. What's he doing here?
1:59:48 Bill Simmons? Yeah, all of a sudden he's back. And Alvarez just goes, he hits 500 against the Red Sox. Like he's, just kills them every game.
1:59:55 Speaker 05 I kind of understand why they did it because our weather in Boston has been terrible. But to start on the road against three difficult teams, it's tough.
2:00:06 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:00:06 Speaker 05 I'd rather they were home, except they couldn't be home. Like today, it's pouring rain. We've had terrible weather, as you know.
2:00:13 Bill Simmons? I mean, honestly, if Tatum hadn't, if Tatum hadn't come back.
2:00:18 Speaker 05 They started home, what, Friday night, right?
2:00:20 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:00:21 Speaker 05 Or Friday afternoon, I guess.
2:00:22 Bill Simmons? But if Tatum hadn't come back, if we had this Drake May, this Drake May Super Bowl, followed by the Red Sox sucking, and then Tatum never coming back to the Celtics, I would actually be worried about your personal welfare.
2:00:38 Speaker 05 No, I, we've talked about the Super Bowl. I'm okay. I'm excited that we got there. I did before this podcast, I just listened to NBA today.
2:00:52 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:00:52 Speaker 05 And they were showing lots of clips of the Celtic game from last night against.
2:00:58 Bill Simmons? Miami.
2:00:59 Speaker 05 Miami. And they asked Perk what he thought, and he, Perk took a moment. I don't always agree with whatever Perk says.
2:01:08 Bill Simmons? I was gonna say.
2:01:09 Speaker 05 Perk said, they're coming out of the East. So I felt good about that.
2:01:14 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he's been pretty bullish for a while. I thought they looked awesome. It's weird. I felt like the Jalen, Jason thing could have gone one of like seven ways. And so far, it feels like it's gone the best possible way where they've each had little moments. They figured out how to like, you take this part. It's almost like watching two guys on a cross country drive, just figure out who should drive and who's going to be, take a break and then who, now you drive. And sometimes it'll be a Jalen game, sometimes it'll be more of a Tatum game. And, uh, and, and they don't feel like when one guy is kind of in control, the other guy doesn't feel like he's completely out of the offense. I, I, I've been really pleased.
2:01:56 Speaker 05 I have been too. And we talked about it, I think a week ago, that I still feel that one of them has to be in the game at all times. And it looks like Missoula came to that realization.
2:02:07 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:02:08 Speaker 05 Because lately, one of them is, unless one of them is not playing, like in the Atlanta game. But there was a nice moment in the fourth quarter yesterday where Brown and Tatum just kind of were near each other.
2:02:20 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:02:21 Speaker 05 On defense and they slapped hands. I think they're good. I think, I need a little message. Yeah, they're good.
2:02:28 Bill Simmons? No, I, I've been watching that stuff too, because there is so much Jalen talking about, um, this, you know, the stuff we talked about before Tatum came back. And if you were reading between the lines in the wrong ways, you could be like, uh, he seems pretty happy to have his own team. But I, I think both of these guys would much rather win. And, you know, they've been together a long time here. This is nine straight years they've been playing together.
2:02:53 Speaker 05 Right.
2:02:54 Bill Simmons? And it, but the, the other good thing is the bench can come in as long as one of them's out there. And, and there's all these different ways the game can go that are positive. Like we could have the hot Pritchard game. You could have the game where like the wings just kind of create, wreak havoc for six minutes and get steals and blocks and all these things. Or you could have a game where Tatum just goes off. There's a lot of variance with them, which I don't feel like we had the same variance last year. Did you?
2:03:18 Speaker 05 No, their bench is really diverse in terms of, and, and guys have matured and taken a step up. I mean, Jordan Walsh, not one of my favorites, but I have to give it to him. He's playing a lot better than he was a year ago.
2:03:32 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:03:32 Speaker 05 Pritchard, Pritchard can have games where he's unstoppable.
2:03:35 Bill Simmons? Right.
2:03:36 Speaker 05 My worry about Pritchard a little bit is in the big game against like the Knicks.
2:03:42 Speaker 05 On a heavy defense, they can take him out of the game a little bit. But uh.
2:03:48 Bill Simmons? Yeah, the Knicks are the Knicks are officially looming. And it's weird because we talked to Jace Concepcion about them earlier in the pod. And I don't even think the Knicks fans feel that confident about the Knicks, but the Celtics are the one team the Knicks have a lot of confidence. They're kind of built to beat the Celtics and even getting somebody like Alvarado for the Pritchard matchup. Alvarado is just annoying. He's gonna guard you for 70 feet and he's gonna stick his feet near your feet. And he's gonna push and check you and bump you and um I kind of think that's how to attack Pritchard, which a lot of teams don't do.
2:04:22 Speaker 05 I agree. We talked about it over the last couple of years. A number of the moves the Knicks made seemed to be to counteract the Celtics. I don't know that anybody's all that fearful of Detroit. Particularly, you know, the unknown is Cade's, Cade Cunningham's.
2:04:39 Bill Simmons? Well, now they said he might not be back until the playoffs.
2:04:43 Speaker 05 Right.
2:04:43 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Well, the one thing that's happening with them now is they're getting nobody believes in us energy, which makes me nervous. Like Zach and I did something on Sunday about how they weren't one of the 10 scariest teams heading into the playoffs. And it was like, I think it was front page on the sports section of the Detroit Free Press, like yet more people don't believe in Detroit. It's like, oh, God, here we go. But um, you know.
2:05:07 Speaker 05 I don't care about Detroit because if we're fortunate enough to get to the Eastern Finals, that's when we see them.
2:05:14 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:05:15 Speaker 05 You know, we don't see them before then.
2:05:17 Bill Simmons? No, the Knicks are the series. Well, although, you know, this Toronto, Philly, all these teams are flip flopping around and like we're taping this today and Toronto's now the seven seed and Philly's the six seed. Philly looked pretty scary in one game last weekend. But I also feel like we've had a lot of success against them over the years. But they, are you scared of either of those teams?
2:05:40 Speaker 05 I know. But you know, I know they're not playing that well. And there's still only one game behind the Knicks, but Cleveland bothers me. They have size that we don't have.
2:05:52 Bill Simmons? And a lot of confidence against the Celtics. Mitchell always loves playing the Celts.
2:05:57 Speaker 05 Loves and always has that 40-point game against us, but.
2:06:03 Speaker 05 You know, I'm not sure if I want, you know, because the Knicks are only one game ahead of Cleveland. I don't know who has the tiebreaker. I'm not sure who I'd rather play in the second round, the Knicks or Cleveland. How about you?
2:06:16 Bill Simmons? Oh, I'd rather play Cleveland.
2:06:17 Speaker 05 Okay.
2:06:17 Bill Simmons? I think the Knicks think they can beat us. I mean, it might be the one good team in the conference they could actually feel that way about. But I think they have a lot of confidence. The other thing is, I was thinking about last year. The thought of Tatum going there and MSG. That part sucks, right? You're going back to basically the scene of the crime. That's just hanging over every at New York game.
2:06:39 Speaker 05 I hadn't thought of that.
2:06:40 Bill Simmons? And then, um, I don't like that we'll take big leads and then we're kind of back with this has already happened a couple of times. This this year where we'll be up 20 and then relax, you know, and do all the worst parts of the stuff that happened last year.
2:06:57 Speaker 05 And then like last night?
2:06:58 Bill Simmons? Like last night against Miami, we had 53 points in the first quarter and then somehow it's like a 12 point game.
2:07:04 Speaker 05 Going into the fourth quarter, it's a 10 point game.
2:07:06 Bill Simmons? Yeah, so they, this is like habitual with this Celtics team for whatever reason. And the Knicks are this team that's always down like eight to 12 points for most of the game. And then all of a sudden they're making this rally and you're like, what happened? They were just down 16. And I, so you have one team that can't hold on to leads the way I would love it. And then another team that seems to love coming back, which they did last year in the playoffs in devastating fashion two times in a row.
2:07:34 Speaker 05 Last year, did the Knicks, the Knicks played Detroit. They beat Detroit.
2:07:38 Bill Simmons? Yeah, but it was, it was a pretty good series.
2:07:40 Speaker 05 Yeah, it was a good series.
2:07:41 Bill Simmons? It was an either or series. Wait, you went to the OKC game last Wednesday?
2:07:46 Speaker 05 I did, I, I.
2:07:47 Bill Simmons? What was the playoff crowd? Like, walk us through the crowd.
2:07:52 Speaker 05 It was a definitely a playoff crowd, but I'm, the beginning of the game was a nervous crowd because OKC has handled us. And they, I know they beat us in OKC this year, but we didn't have the full squad.
2:08:09 Speaker 05 But we played great. It was playoff atmosphere, you know, back and forth, back and forth. It was a great crowd, standing quite a bit. And the Celtic crowd is not usually a standing crowd. And it was great to get that win. I think that was a critical win. I looked at how many wins we have against like super teams this year, not too many.
2:08:33 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:08:33 Speaker 05 We're below 500. So that was a big win.
2:08:36 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that stat became a big deal like a week ago, but if you picked it apart, there were a couple of games where we didn't have guys playing.
2:08:43 Speaker 05 We didn't have guys playing.
2:08:44 Bill Simmons? The Spurs game where Brown got thrown out. I thought some of it was explainable.
2:08:49 Speaker 05 Yeah.
2:08:49 Bill Simmons? But also didn't have Tatum for most of the year.
2:08:52 Speaker 05 We only have six games left. I'm not sure how often they'll play Tatum in these six games. We have a game against New York in Madison Square Garden, which is always
2:09:04 Bill Simmons? I would skip that one.
2:09:05 Speaker 05 A really tough place for us.
2:09:06 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I just wouldn't play Tatum in that. So what have you seen from seeing Tatum in person? And what are people in the stands saying?
2:09:13 Speaker 05 Well, if you asked me 10 days ago or a week ago, I would have said something differently. Last night, the last couple of games, I know he didn't play against Atlanta, but he's going to the basket more.
2:09:26 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:09:27 Speaker 05 With force. When he came back, when I was at the games, he was very tentative, almost like he was afraid of falling, or not falling, afraid of landing on the foot poorly.
2:09:40 Bill Simmons? Yeah, or stepping on somebody's foot or shoe or something.
2:09:42 Speaker 05 Stepping on somebody's foot, exactly, which we see happen all the time.
2:09:46 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:09:47 Speaker 05 We saw that happen to Ron Harper Jr. the other day, and he was out a couple of games, twisting that ankle. You don't want to see him twist the ankle because it's too close to the Achilles.
2:09:59 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:10:01 Speaker 05 But he looks a little less tentative now. I mean, he's still going to the basket. Every game he takes a couple of shots I wish he didn't take, but Brown does also.
2:10:10 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:10:13 Speaker 05 I just like, I don't remember him being so forceful and fearsful on the boards. I mean, he got 18 boards last night. That's crazy.
2:10:26 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I was saying to Zach, like, I wonder if just watching 60 games on the bench made him rethink some of the stuff that both he could do, but also the team might be missing.
2:10:38 Speaker 05 I agree with you.
2:10:39 Bill Simmons? Cause they, we really missed defensive rebounding the whole season. And then as soon as he came back, he solved it.
2:10:45 Speaker 05 He and, he and Cade are a great defensive rebounding combination. And it's critical not to give up those offensive rebounds, which we always give up.
2:10:56 Bill Simmons? Right.
2:10:56 Speaker 05 But since he came back, it's really different.
2:10:59 Bill Simmons? Well, there's a, there's a couple of ways this team's different than last year. They, they're a much better offensive rebounding team because the two centers aren't 25 feet from the basket. Right?
2:11:10 Speaker 05 Right.
2:11:11 Bill Simmons? Last year it was like, take a shot, if went in or not, and then the other team was coming back the other way. This year, both centers like to crash the boards. They have these wings like Hugo and, and Shireman is like, I, I honestly think like if, if we could vote for this, guys who come in and tip a rebound either backwards or to a teammate. He's got, he's like elite at that. I've never seen a, a less consequential player, better at like the dumbest skill possible. But I'm telling you, it's gonna, he's gonna like swing a playoff game with that one of these times. Jumps over like five guys, tips it to you.
2:11:48 Speaker 05 You know, the two players that I'm really pleasantly surprised about, it was all kinds of wondering what, when the season started about our center position.
2:11:59 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:12:00 Speaker 05 Cause we lost our three centers and Cade has been terrific.
2:12:04 Bill Simmons? Yeah, but your granddaughter never gave up on him. That was like her guy for two years.
2:12:09 Speaker 05 Yeah, but he got, he didn't get much time.
2:12:12 Bill Simmons? No.
2:12:12 Speaker 05 And he was still a little gawky out there. He, he has some moves all of a sudden and he's a really good rebounder and he's a good defender. But the other guy is Shireman. A year ago, you and I talked about him a little bit and I just didn't think he was gonna get any time at all.
2:12:30 Bill Simmons? No, he seemed like a goofball. He's wearing like the T-shirt under the jersey.
2:12:34 Speaker 05 Yeah.
2:12:34 Bill Simmons? It's like, what is this guy? Where, how did we end up with this dude?
2:12:38 Speaker 05 His corner three is deadly.
2:12:41 Bill Simmons? His, well, the one where he'll fake it and then he'll take a step to the side and that it feels like that goes in 100% of the time.
2:12:48 Speaker 05 Yeah.
2:12:49 Bill Simmons? I think he's a sneaky good rebounder, as I mentioned, and I think defensively, he's like Hauser, like these teams challenge him and he can kind of stay in front of everybody. It's impressive.
2:12:59 Speaker 05 Bigger than you, in person, he's bigger than you think.
2:13:02 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:13:02 Speaker 05 Um, he's actually a little bigger than Hauser in terms of body build. Hauser's been better. Uh, obviously last night he was great.
2:13:11 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:13:11 Speaker 05 He's been hot and cold this year, but it, the one thing I'd say is it's all coming together for the playoffs. Now you knock on wood because that injury is right around the corner for somebody and you hope it's not one of our guys, but uh, I don't know. I kind of hope we play Cleveland in the second round. I don't want to see New York. I don't want to see Spike Lee in the Boston Garden, sitting three rows ahead of me, jumping up and down, you know?
2:13:39 Bill Simmons? Well, we won't see Shalhoub because I think he's in hiding after the Oscars. I don't think.
2:13:43 Speaker 05 Oh, is that right?
2:13:44 Bill Simmons? And I don't think he'll be there for a couple of months.
2:13:47 Speaker 05 He was your Oscar choice after the.
2:13:48 Bill Simmons? No, I was rooting for MBJ. I loved MBJ. Um, I think we've hit the part of the pod where you need to apologize yet again to Joel Mazzola.
2:13:59 Bill Simmons? You did it, you did it when he won the title and then uh, this year you were saying he was getting a little second row Joe again and I, I, he's either gonna be the coach of the year or the runner up. I think Bickerstaff's gonna win, but he's probably gonna be second, but um, this team, I think, I remember talking to you after I went to that Washington game that they won when they were like one and three to start the season and I was like, we suck. I don't know. I, I feel like we should just blow this up. Like this, this team has no chance and he kind of wouldn't let them tank. And is such a maniac, like people think, whose team is this? Is it Jalen's team or Jason's team? It's like, do you watch the games? This is Missoula's team. This is like, this team belongs to him and he doesn't give a shit. He'll bench anybody. He'll do whatever, the intensity.
2:14:44 Bill Simmons? Like, if we ever get in a fight with the Pistons, like some sort of altercation, like I'm worried he's gonna like fight Isaiah Stewart or something. It's like the enforcer on the team. So I don't know. You owe him an apology.
2:14:56 Speaker 05 No, I'm not ready to apologize. I'll see. We'll see what happens after the playoffs.
2:15:01 Bill Simmons? What else does the guy have to do? We were, our over under was 42 wins. We have 51. What do you want?
2:15:09 Speaker 05 I, I think one thing I do like about him is he, he has the locker room.
2:15:14 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:15:15 Speaker 05 And he has the respect of the players.
2:15:19 Speaker 05 There's some coaching strategies that drive me crazy during a game, but yeah, I'm not gonna apologize.
2:15:26 Bill Simmons? Well, like stuff like you were mad that he was taking out Tatum and Brown at the same time. You didn't understand that.
2:15:31 Speaker 05 I mean, it wasn't, made no sense.
2:15:33 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:15:34 Speaker 05 And we, we particularly, I don't know what game it was, but we started the third quarter or fourth quarter with neither out. And all of a sudden we lost a 10-point lead and we lost the game. Yeah.
2:15:44 Bill Simmons? I know why he's doing that though, cause I think he's trying to build confidence in these guys so they're not just like always a Jalen and Jason team. But the truth is, we are a Jalen and Jason team and that's what the team is.
2:15:56 Speaker 05 Yeah.
2:15:56 Bill Simmons? Cause I see it. I see it both ways.
2:15:59 Speaker 05 I guess so. No, I, I think he's had a good year.
2:16:03 Bill Simmons? Oh, I'm, I'm glad. He's gonna finish second in Coach of the Year.
2:16:06 Speaker 05 He is a little bit out there though. I, I loved yesterday when he said he doesn't want Coach of the Year award and he thinks it's a stupid award.
2:16:15 Speaker 05 I don't know whether the coach would say that, but.
2:16:17 Bill Simmons? Yeah. All right. So this has been a good season for you. Who's the best player you saw in person this year?
2:16:24 Speaker 05 Shay Alexander. Unstoppable. He, you know, that baseline or baseline jump shot that he has or foul line or it's a little bit, a little bit further out. I don't think we stopped it once.
2:16:40 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:16:41 Speaker 05 And he can get to the rim anytime he wants.
2:16:46 Speaker 05 He's the best player I've seen.
2:16:49 Bill Simmons? Did you see, you saw Wemby, right?
2:16:51 Speaker 05 Yeah, I mean, Wemby was terrific. He, he had that unusual game where he hit, was that, no, that was at home in San Antonio. Hit the eight threes.
2:17:00 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:17:01 Speaker 05 But there are times when he just disappears for some reason.
2:17:07 Bill Simmons? Wemby?
2:17:08 Speaker 05 Yeah.
2:17:09 Bill Simmons? You just don't like.
2:17:10 Speaker 05 Alexander, Alexander never disappears.
2:17:12 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:17:13 Speaker 05 He carries that team. They've won games, because I watch, I've watched them on TV quite a bit. They've won games they shouldn't have won because he carried them.
2:17:21 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:17:24 Speaker 05 I, I'm assuming and thinking he deserves and will get the MVP. You feeling the same way?
2:17:33 Speaker 05 You're more of a Wemby guy?
2:17:34 Bill Simmons? No, I, he's still favored. I, I'm still gonna vote for him with six games left, but you know, it's an 82 game year and we have four guys having transcendent seasons in their own ways, you know? And I think there's cases for everybody, but if you're on the team that has the best record, that was missing the second best guy for most of the year, you were steady the whole way through. Eye test wise, if you go to the games, he's like unbelievable. I mean, this is, the way he plays, it's like when, in the eighties, when Andrew Tony, who was the most underrated player of the eighties, we just couldn't stop him. And it felt like he could get in those zones. It just feels like that's every game for Shay, where he's just Andrew Tony, 82 games a year.
2:18:18 Speaker 05 Every game.
2:18:19 Bill Simmons? He's shooting 55%.
2:18:21 Speaker 05 When, when I was at the OKC game, I kept wait, I, I loved the time that he was on the bench.
2:18:27 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:18:28 Speaker 05 Because I'm not sure that anybody else scares me on that team. I think as a collective group, they play very well. But he carries them. There's nobody else carrying them.
2:18:38 Bill Simmons? What was the, what was the fan reaction to the foul baiting and some of the calls? Again, that he gets?
2:18:44 Speaker 05 There was a lot of booing on the refs. Uh, he, he gets calls he shouldn't get.
2:18:48 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:18:50 Speaker 05 He, he get, when you see the replay up on the Jumbotron, that, there's. Missoula should could have had 10 challenges that game.
2:19:00 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:19:01 Speaker 05 Uh, cause he doesn't get touched. He has a great way of using his shoulder to touch the defender. And then moving back and making the shot. And the defender gets called for the foul. Uh, more than, I mean, Brown does a little bit, but he's, he's so skilled at it. Look at me foul shots he gets every game.
2:19:23 Bill Simmons? He hit like 25 in one game. All right. So you're feeling good about the Celtics, terrible about the Red Sox. Have you started studying the, uh, the draft for the Patriots yet?
2:19:33 Speaker 05 Well, I should also mention, I'm excited about the Bruins there. They've been playing very well.
2:19:37 Bill Simmons? As you know, I, I, I don't jump in until the playoffs.
2:19:41 Speaker 05 Yeah, I know. Well, the playoffs will be soon. And they'll be in the playoffs. So I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, I've studied the draft a little bit, but.
2:19:49 Bill Simmons? See, if you want to do 20 seconds on the Bruins, let's hear it. I thought you were kind of lukewarm on this team.
2:19:55 Speaker 05 No, no, I, I think they've done a good job with the four lines. They've assembled different groupings that have done very well. Uh, McElroy is, is I think playing like a, a first star defenseman.
2:20:10 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:20:11 Speaker 05 Uh, Swamen's been a really terrific all year. Um, I think they could go far in the playoffs. So I'm looking forward to.
2:20:19 Bill Simmons? Oh, wow.
2:20:20 Speaker 05 Hockey playoffs and basketball playoffs.
2:20:22 Bill Simmons? It's like old, old school Boston.
2:20:25 Speaker 05 And not having to watch the Red Sox. Cause all those playoff games will be on.
2:20:29 Bill Simmons? So we're out on the Red Sox. I gotta look at what their over under is now. It's the alternate win totals.
2:20:38 Speaker 05 It's, it's not so much that they're one in five. I don't like the team. You know, you look at their lineup.
2:20:46 Bill Simmons? Uh, their over under is dropped to 84 and a half. You know, who else doesn't seem like he likes the team? Alex Cora. He has that look on his face like he hasn't gone to the bathroom in three days.
2:20:56 Speaker 05 Well, they brought this, they brought this bean counter in to be general manager and.
2:21:02 Speaker 05 I like the days when we had Dombrowski because he wasn't afraid to make a trade to bring in a superstar. Now, maybe the message from John Henry is we're not spending money. You can't bring in that guy.
2:21:16 Bill Simmons? Oh, you think that's the message?
2:21:18 Speaker 05 I think that's the message.
2:21:20 Bill Simmons? I think that's established. The problem is they traded Devers and they said they were going to reinvest the money. They gave Anthony a new contract. And then I think they thought they were going to sign Bregman and he's just decided he didn't want to sign with them, but they didn't get Alonso. So now all of a sudden, you're doing all this short-term stuff and you're paying Kiner Falafa $6 million when he's a replacement player.
2:21:47 Speaker 05 Well, that's always been the issue. If you look at the $6 million players they have, if you got rid of them and just use that money to get an Alonso, they just don't do it that way. It's not their philosophy.
2:22:00 Bill Simmons? I don't think they care either because the ticket prices.
2:22:03 Speaker 05 Highest than the majors.
2:22:05 Bill Simmons? We look because we're going to San Francisco next week for the rewatchables and I was just curious looking at the ballpark prices there on like a Tuesday night, a Wednesday afternoon, whatever. And it's like, less than half of what Red Sox tickets would cost. This is in San Francisco, which is a major city, but they just don't care. They jack those up. They know people are going to pay for them.
2:22:29 Speaker 05 There is one other thing before we go. I'd like to bring up the draft I'm already looking at.
2:22:34 Bill Simmons? You want tight end?
2:22:35 Speaker 05 My two UConn teams are both in the semis.
2:22:38 Bill Simmons? I don't know. I don't know where this came from.
2:22:43 Speaker 05 I've always been in on the women play tomorrow night.
2:22:46 Bill Simmons? You have been on the women's team, but I don't know in the men's thing. You were like a B.C., you were always rooting for whatever the Massachusetts school was. And now all of a sudden, you're like an actual UConn.
2:22:56 Speaker 05 I went on the bandwagon. We have no good Massachusetts.
2:22:59 Bill Simmons? Well, that's true. We don't.
2:23:00 Speaker 05 Division one basketball.
2:23:01 Bill Simmons? Well, now we're getting Bill Murray's coach for B.C. Maybe he'll, Bill Murray's son to coach the B.C. team.
2:23:08 Speaker 05 It can't hurt.
2:23:09 Bill Simmons? No, I know. So you're focused on the UConn. So big sports weekend for you, it sounds like.
2:23:13 Speaker 05 Big sports weekend.
2:23:15 Bill Simmons? Can we get your review on the Madison with Michelle Pfeiffer?
2:23:19 Speaker 05 I really enjoyed watching it. I liked all six episodes.
2:23:25 Speaker 05 I liked the ending. It made sense. I didn't know there was a season two until you told me. I thought the younger daughter was atrocious.
2:23:35 Speaker 05 The older daughter was also hard to take.
2:23:37 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:23:37 Speaker 05 The grand, the two grandkids were pretty spoiled.
2:23:40 Bill Simmons? They were awful.
2:23:42 Speaker 05 Otherwise, I like the interaction between Russell and Pfeiffer.
2:23:47 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:23:48 Speaker 05 And the scenery was gorgeous and.
2:23:52 Bill Simmons? So thumbs up, another thumbs up for me.
2:23:54 Speaker 05 Yeah, thumbs up on that one.
2:23:55 Bill Simmons? Any new.
2:23:57 Speaker 05 I wouldn't have watched it except you and your wife recommended it.
2:24:00 Bill Simmons? Any CBS shows that have really caught your fancy this year?
2:24:04 Speaker 05 Well, there is that new show CIA.
2:24:06 Bill Simmons? Yeah, what's going on with CIA? It's in New York City?
2:24:09 Speaker 05 It's okay. It's, you know, it's.
2:24:16 Speaker 05 And it follows FBI. So, you know, they did, that was a good pairing that they did.
2:24:21 Bill Simmons? Oh, it goes from FBI to CIA?
2:24:24 Speaker 05 Yeah, I'm all in.
2:24:25 Bill Simmons? So CBS doesn't even try to title these anymore? They're just like coming up at eight o'clock, fire. At nine o'clock, hospital.
2:24:34 Speaker 05 No, eight o'clock FBI, nine o'clock CIA. That's the other channel on Wednesday night.
2:24:40 Bill Simmons? Oh, that's, that's NBC.
2:24:42 Speaker 05 Chicago shows, yeah.
2:24:43 Bill Simmons? They do Chicago Fire, PD and the other one?
2:24:46 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:24:48 Bill Simmons? And yet you're not watching The Pit, which I just started watching. I'm the last person who got sucked in.
2:24:52 Speaker 05 No, I haven't gotten into that.
2:24:54 Bill Simmons? My wife started watching it. I got sucked in and all of a sudden, within an hour, I'm completely.
2:25:00 Speaker 05 Are you binging it? You're binging it?
2:25:02 Bill Simmons? We finished the season. This weekend, we were gonna watch the whole second season. The Pit's great. I knew it was gonna be good. We just, the ER, because they were saying it was gonna, it was like a much grosser, kind of more intense version of ER, the NBC show.
2:25:17 Speaker 05 Right.
2:25:18 Bill Simmons? And it is. There's some, some stuff where you're like, oh my God, I can't believe they showed that. But it's really good. I guarantee you will like it.
2:25:26 Speaker 05 It's on HBO, you told me, right?
2:25:27 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Well, it's on, yeah, HBO Max. But you should watch it with your, with your wife, who's a doctor, because I'm sure she'll pick it apart like you pick apart Joe Missoula. Like, oh, they would never do that. They would never.
2:25:39 Speaker 05 She does. She picks apart every medical show.
2:25:42 Bill Simmons? She tried to ruin ER when we would watch ER the first year.
2:25:46 Speaker 05 Yeah, you're right. Oh, they don't do it that way.
2:25:48 Bill Simmons? That's so, that's ridiculous. It's like when we're watching like a basketball movie or something. But I think you would really like the pit.
2:25:54 Speaker 05 I'll give it a try. I have a little time on my hands.
2:25:58 Bill Simmons? Well, you don't, you have a little time, but you, you adopted a puppy that has kind of dominated.
2:26:05 Speaker 05 You're not gonna bring that up again, are you?
2:26:07 Bill Simmons? You adopted Ruby.
2:26:09 Speaker 05 Ruby's 14 months now and I hope someday that she's behaving.
2:26:19 Speaker 05 It hasn't happened yet, but.
2:26:22 Bill Simmons? Oh, man. If, I was saying if, if she was a kid, she would be in, in, in the class with like three teachers watching her at all times, making sure.
2:26:32 Speaker 05 I think she'd be in foster care.
2:26:37 Bill Simmons? Oh, man. What a spring for you. All right. Well, I'll see you, uh, I'll see you in, in Boston for some playoff games.
2:26:44 Speaker 05 Looking forward to it. I like, I like this net, new setup here.
2:26:48 Bill Simmons? Thank you. Yeah, we, we got that because we could use it whenever I'm, whenever I'm back there. All right. Thanks, Dad. Good to talk to you. Have a good weekend. Good luck, UConn. All right. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to House and Jason and my dad. Thanks to Gahan Eduardo as well. I have the Sunday podcast. I think we're looking at 8:00 PM ET on Sunday, going live on Netflix with me and Zach Lowe. Lots to discuss, uh, NBA wise and new rewatch must come in on Monday. We're doing Eddie and the Cruisers. So that's the docket. Enjoy the weekend. Have fun. I will see you on Sunday.
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