Last Call for Giannis Trades, Plus an NFL Round 3 Deep Dive With Chris Ryan, Joe House, and Peter Schrager

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Chris Ryan and Joe House to once and for all discuss Giannis trades (2:58). Then, Peter Schrager joins to discuss the NFL coaching changes before previewing the conference championship games and making their Ringer 107 picks (51:49). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Chris Ryan, Peter Schrager, and Joe House Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

  All right, quick break. This episode is brought to you by Fire TV. You ever sit down ready to watch the game only to search and scroll endlessly? If so, you need Fire TV. It shows your live games from your favorite teams all in one place, right on the home screen. No more searching. Just sit down and turn on Fire TV. Separate subscriptions may be required. Feature and content availability may vary.

• 0:29Bill Simmons?

  The Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by Fanduel Sportsbook. We're also brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network. I put up two rewatchables this week. We did just one of the guys on Monday. We did another 48 Hours on Wednesday. It was one for us week. On Monday, you will be able to watch the rewatchables on Netflix. So you will still be able to get it on Spotify. You can watch and listen to it on Spotify and you can get it on Netflix right now in America and Canada and hopefully in more countries to come. But we are going to be doing Zodiac on Monday. I'm recording it tomorrow. I am overprepared, very excited. I think I've solved the case. Stay tuned for that. By the way, if you like the rewatchables, February 11th, I don't know if tickets are left or

• 1:13Bill Simmons?

  not, but maybe they're secondary market tickets. Who knows? Los Angeles, the Bill Simmons Podcast Live at the Wiltern, ringer.com/events. And a rewatchables is almost guaranteed to break out during this live show. So if you like the rewatchables and if you like Michael Mann movies, I would highly encourage you to go to this. That is Thursday, February 11th. No, not Thursday, Wednesday, February 11th in Los Angeles, the Wiltern. So there you go. Coming up on this podcast, we're gonna do some basketball at the top because this Giannis situation, I feel like I've done this segment five times, but now this is the one. This is the finalized version of fake Giannis trades that I've combed through.

• 1:55Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna bring in Chris Ryan and Joe House and bounce all of our Giannis ideas off each other. So that starts the pod. And then, House is staying. Peter Schreger joining us again because we had good luck last week with our picks. We had a fun football discussion. We were talking about the conference championships and a whole bunch more NFL stuff. That's all next. And take a break, bring your Pearl Jam, and then- Chris Ryan and Joe House. The Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by FanDuel. Playoff mode is on. FanDuel's got it all. Same game parlays, quick bets for jumping in live, offers to boost your winnings every game day. You do not want to miss out on the playoff action, the remaining playoff action we have on FanDuel. Download the FanDuel app or head to FanDuel.com/BS

• 2:40Bill Simmons?

  to get started. 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Game promo code 180GAMBLER or visit RG-Help.com, call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut.

• 3:21Bill Simmons?

  All right, taping this late afternoon Thursday. Was hoping there would be a Yanis trade today. And so far there has not been a Yanis trade, but Joe House is here. He's going to be here the whole podcast. Probably complain if I keep him too long. Chris Ryan taking a break from preparing for our rewatchables that were recorded tomorrow about Zodiac, which what's the over under in time length? What would FanDuel put in, like 2 hours 40 minutes?

• 3:44Speaker 01

  It's always interesting to just see the length of the pod compared to the running time of the movie.

• 3:49Bill Simmons?

  And right, 157 minutes for the movie.

• 3:52Speaker 01

  I'm going over.

• 3:53Bill Simmons?

  You're going over the 157?

• 3:55Speaker 01

  Yes. I think Great Shot Gordo might take a full 45 minutes.

• 3:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we have fantasy too, so he's gonna, I don't know, he's gonna go full. What's his outfit gonna be? He could wear a beret?

• 4:08Speaker 02

  He's got his

• 4:09Bill Simmons?

  A bowtie?

• 4:09Speaker 02

  Necklace.

• 4:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. We're talking basketball. We're talking Giannis. It feels like we hit rock bottom last night with the Bucks. And I've done Giannis trade segments before, but now we have more information with the season. I would normally throw this at House, but CR, this is in your will, House. You love hyperbole.

• 4:30Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 4:30Bill Simmons?

  You love things that might not happen. Your team might be involved in one of my fake trades. But what would your, two weeks left for the deadline? Is there any chance Giannis is on the Bucks in two weeks?

• 4:42Speaker 01

  I always think that the January, that the midseason trade deadline is a little bit overrated as like a fireworks display, but this seems untenable.

• 4:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  This really does seem like, I don't really know. He's, they have tried so many different Band-Aids and fixes for this. And they're out of moves and he seems to be out of patience.

• 5:03Bill Simmons?

  What do you think, House? I mean, they play OKC yesterday, which is the worst case scenario nightmare situation for a team like the Bucks. But the quotes after the game, and I said this in Tuesday's pod, just like, just ask for a trade. The Bucks fans will get over it. They'll under, deep down, they're going to understand you won the title for them in 21. Like, it's time. Just do it. What do you think, House?

• 5:23Speaker 03

  So that was going to be my first question. Back to you. I was going to answer your question with the question. What do you think Bucks fans want?

• 5:32Bill Simmons?

  They want to keep Giannis. They want to get through this season and not trade Giannis. I think they love Giannis. They want him to retire with the team. And I totally get it. But for him.

• 5:42Speaker 03

  So that means.

• 5:43Bill Simmons?

  But for him, he won the title there, though.

• 5:46Speaker 03

  He did.

• 5:47Bill Simmons?

  That's the, that's the part, like, Nowitzki never won the title in Dallas until 2011. And there's some other guys who never won, like Karl Malone never won in Utah.

• 5:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:56Bill Simmons?

  In this case, he delivered them the title. So if he asks, he's like, all right, it's time for me now to go. I don't think they can get mad at him, right?

• 6:05Speaker 03

  Oh, no, I'm just wondering if I was a fan of the Bucks. What would I want? Now, it's very, very difficult for me to put myself in the shoes of a franchise. That's one a title in the last forty five, fifty years.

• 6:18Bill Simmons?

  Top hundred player.

• 6:19Speaker 03

  It's a top. We have two top one hundred players now. God damn it. As we Trey Young is top one hundred and Alex Sar is a top one hundred player. Congratulations.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  Talking about the capitals by that.

• 6:31Speaker 03

  Wow. The cap capitals.

• 6:33Bill Simmons?

  I didn't realize you had two top hundred players, House.

• 6:35Speaker 03

  Two top one hundred players.

• 6:37Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 6:37Speaker 03

  Nations capital.

• 6:38Bill Simmons?

  Only three away.

• 6:40Speaker 03

  I, I can only as a reference point, consider the purgatory of winning thirty nine to forty six games. Every goddamn season and not being relevant come playoff time.

• 6:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 6:55Speaker 03

  Relevant is fine, but it takes these extraordinary, superhuman efforts by Yanis. We literally watched this in the first round of the, the just completed a year ago playoffs where I actually thought the Bucks matched up quite well with the Pacers. And the Pacers ran them the fuck off the floor, ran them out of the gym. It was not close in any way, shape or form, even with the most extraordinary efforts by Yanis. So if I'm a fan of the Bucks, I, I understand the sentimentality and, uh, you know, the, the loyalty of wanting that Yanis thing. But I think it's time to move on.

• 7:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's tough because they weren't even that close last year and they feel less close this year. And also CR, I think the league has changed. Like we have to vote for this ringer one hundred. We got that email today, the, the hundred best players. And that, that list is just so much deeper and better than it would have been twenty years ago. You could have gotten away with this weird Yanis Bucks team in two thousand and six, right? They probably would have made the second round, had a puncher's chance to beat anybody in the East, even with the depleted supporting cast. Now, it just feels like everybody's too deep. I don't see.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  Media ecosystem is totally different now, too. Why we're doing like five pods a week about trade deadline in, in mid-January. So it's like the pressure. That's on these teams and on these players. I mean, just look what's happening to Knicks. You know, they, they got a get right game against Brooklyn, but, but like we did so much Nixon crisis, cat, cat trade, Mike Brown on the hot seat stuff. That's like a finals favorite. Like they're, they're like a, they're like a pretty good team. They're still third in the Eastern Conference. So the amount of pressure and the amount of scrutiny that these guys are under now, and also the kind of weird state of the NBA where we've got a bunch of quote unquote faces of the league that are kind of mired on mediocre teams.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  While these juggernaut teams are kind of like going about their business is really a fascinating inflection point for the league.

• 8:53Bill Simmons?

  And it's taking a lot of time, energy and attention away from the Joel Embiid renaissance right now.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  I know that, that you're being sarcastic, but they're playing the Rockets toe to toe right now. And I just heard the Rockets broadcast say, even though he can't move like he used to, you have to pay attention to Joel Embiid.

• 9:10Bill Simmons?

  I think that's an accurate scouting report.

• 9:14Bill Simmons?

  He still can get his points.

• 9:15Speaker 03

  Move at all.

• 9:16Bill Simmons?

  He still can get his points. Um, all right. Well, I sent you a list of Yanis trades and I intentionally left a couple off.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  And I want to go. Did you answer what you wanted? Do you want him to be, do you think it's best for everybody if he moves on? Or do you think that there's like a path back?

• 9:33Bill Simmons?

  I think when somebody is as good as him, to put him on a team like this for the rest of his prime to be is unacceptable. And I think they've exhausted every single possibility to try to fix that, including the really, really aggressive Dame Miles Turner thing, which I did not agree with. But they've had a combination of bad luck and you know, they, they traded a lot for Drew Holiday. But that, this is the thing that seems to happen over and over again with the league now, where these teams make these trades, where they give up all these future assets and then three years pass and everybody gets amnesia. It's like, we don't have anything to trade. What, what are we? It's like, yeah, cause you, you traded all that stuff for Drew Holiday. That's why you can't trade your picks now and that won you the title. So it worked out.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  But yeah, it was worth it. But they, I wonder if going back in retrospect, it's like, they would have just been comfortable running that title team back more or less into the ground, you know, like would you, obviously hindsight's 2020 with Dame, but.

• 10:31Bill Simmons?

  Well, I think they would, I don't think they would have done the Middleton trade again if they had to redo that one, but it's. It's a hard, I said this to Mahoney on Tuesday, House, that these trades now where you get 120 to 130 cents on the dollar for your, for your guy, because somebody else feels like they have this short window and they have the assets and they want to do it. The history of those trades is really good for the team getting all the assets. You know, like even if you look, I think the Davis, New Orleans trade probably worked out as bad as it could have gone for New Orleans, just because of the actual picks they got and the spots in the draft and they never really got lucky with one of the lottery picks and, you know, but that's how it goes. But they had a lot of bullets in the holster,

• 11:15Bill Simmons?

  which I think is what you want with those trades. I'm sure, I'm sure Memphis loves the Bain trade, even though I think Bain's becoming a important guy in Orlando. I'm sure the Nets are happy with the Bridges trade, you know? So I wonder like, is there a version of that that you could get 120 cents for somebody like Giannis? I think there is, right?

• 11:35Speaker 03

  I agree. And, and you know, the thing that the fan base has to be reminded of is, is patience. Like even the Pelicans, it's a failure because Zion turned out to not, not be capable of playing complete seasons. Like they, they made many good moves. They made, they, they drafted good guys.

• 11:55Bill Simmons?

  And Murd blew out his Achilles and Zion was a letdown, but some of the other moves were great.

• 12:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:03Bill Simmons?

  It's tough because here's the big variable that we have to mention before we talk about these Giannis trades. And people have heard these on the other 450 NBA podcasts have done this, but we just have to mention them at the top. Look at the disclaimer.

• 12:16Bill Simmons?

  They're, they get the worst version of their pick or New Orleans pick.

• 12:22Bill Simmons?

  The best version of that used to be with New Orleans, but New Orleans traded it to Atlanta for House's guy, Derek Queen, DMV, DMVAU All-Star.

• 12:34Bill Simmons?

  So Milwaukee is still getting one of those two picks and the worst they get, it's not as bad as you would have thought normally because the New Orleans pick, New Orleans is also not doing well. New Orleans, by the way, might be the best 10 and 36 team in the history of the league. Every single one of their games, there, it's a two-point game with five minutes left. So it actually is in Milwaukee's interest to become worse this year if they make a trade. And I think that makes this really hard because there's some trades that we'll go through where they're getting good guys back, but you're treading water and that's not necessarily where you want to be. All right. So

• 13:07Speaker 03

  Before you get started, can I ask a question?

• 13:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 13:11Speaker 03

  Do you not think that they are now officially competing with Golden State for, for this, the pool of assets that are out there?

• 13:21Bill Simmons?

  Well, the Golden State thing's different, right? Because I, I just think it's over.

• 13:28Speaker 03

  So it's just over?

• 13:29Bill Simmons?

  I think it's also over for Milwaukee, but they have a better asset to trade. Golden State's never trading Curry. Did you see, CR, did you see the Golden State box score the first game without Butler? I saw Kaminga did quite well, right? Yeah, but you look at it, it's like Curry and 14 other guys.

• 13:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, I made so much money on, on Toronto in that game. Thank God.

• 13:48Bill Simmons?

  It's just that they have a bunch of ninth man in Curry and Draymond's not the same guy. It's like Curry's too old to do a like, oh, I have a phantom back injury. You know what I mean? Like they're He's moving into the Kobe from 2012 to 16 thing where it's like, we can't trade you, you're an icon, our fans love you, but our team's also not going to be good. So maybe this is just, this is now we're making equalizer four and equalizer five with you and we'll give you a budget. It'll be solid. It's you and a bunch of Italian guys. Yeah. There'll be nobody else you can recognize in the cast. And CR, I will get it both.

• 14:23Speaker 03

  A blueprint from this, it's, the Sixers did it last year to great effect, to, to, to great outcomes. I mean, the only reason we're talking about this Sixers team in any way, shape or form being relevant is because VJ Edgcombe is fucking awesome. And he came in and immediately injected life into the team, the franchise, everybody who plays on the floor likes playing with him. I, I, I continue to resent that he doesn't get more shine in terms of the rookie of the year conversation. Like we have him firmly in third place.

• 14:55Bill Simmons?

  All right, stop sucking up.

• 14:56Speaker 03

  The fucking Sixers are in Nowheresville without him. Huh?

• 15:00Bill Simmons?

  Who did, stop sucking up CR. So you, you have him over Canipple and, Canipple and a flag?

• 15:06Speaker 03

  I have him over flag and I think he's at least equal to Canipple. Now like the shooting by Canipple is ama- amazing.

• 15:13Bill Simmons?

  Canipple, the Hornets kinda shit the bed last night. I was excited for that. Legs was, our guy Legs was doing the game. I was excited for, uh, for a big thing from them. Um.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  I obviously think BJH comes to rookie year. It's like, but I'm, I'm basically like a cult member now.

• 15:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, between him and Maxey.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:35Bill Simmons?

  This is great. I'm happy for you, CR.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm, I'm holding, I'm holding on to my Philadelphia real estate. Let's just put it that way.

• 15:41Speaker 03

  You're prepared for the Maxey injury that's coming, right?

• 15:45Bill Simmons?

  Come on.

• 15:45Speaker 03

  No.

• 15:46Bill Simmons?

  He's playing 41 minutes a game.

• 15:48Speaker 03

  Talking about.

• 15:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  He's young. Let him, let him live. Let him work.

• 15:52Bill Simmons?

  You gotta tone that back, CR.

• 15:54Speaker 03

  It's insane.

• 15:55Bill Simmons?

  He should be at like 36 minutes.

• 15:56Speaker 01

  Really needs to chill for a second though. Yeah.

• 15:58Speaker 03

  Play it over under on how many weeks he's gonna miss when this injury comes.

• 16:01Speaker 01

  The weird thing is that McCain is now, Jeremy, if we're doing Sixers, Jeremy McCain is now in the G League, which is just like, I don't understand the rotational stuff or what happened with Jeremy McCain. He's still like, I think is an interesting.

• 16:12Bill Simmons?

  I would have already traded for him if I was one of the other teams.

• 16:16Speaker 03

  All right. I derailed us. I'm sorry.

• 16:18Bill Simmons?

  From least realistic to most realistic, but all trades that I'm sure the teams, the other team probably at least had a meeting. Least realistic, Detroit. So I sent most of these to you. Harris, Tobias Harris expiring, Jaden Ivory, Isaiah Stewart, who's been awesome for them and that's a tough piece to give up. And also there's like crazy defensive rim protection numbers with him this year, which, which the eye test backs up. Like he had an incredible block of Kada in the Celtics Pistons game the other day where Kada was just going in for a two man dunk. And he just went up and like fucking swatted him. So Harris, Ivy, Stewart and as many picks and swaps as it takes.

• 16:59Bill Simmons?

  And Detroit's like, we're gonna make a real run at this. We're already in first place. I would not do this if I was them.

• 17:06Bill Simmons?

  But if I was the Pistons.

• 17:08Speaker 01

  So can I make the case for it?

• 17:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 17:11Speaker 01

  You're in the midst of an Eastern Conference where the Knicks are in a swoon. The Cavs look like they don't, that this nucleus is not going to be able to put it together and reach the heights that they were at.

• 17:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  You're getting off years and off, off eras from Miami and Philly and a couple of other teams. Like this is, this is your year.

• 17:34Bill Simmons?

  Well, on top of it, if you get Giannis, you now have two of the best 10 players in the league.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  You could even, you might want to shrink that number a little bit.

• 17:41Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 17:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:42Bill Simmons?

  And. Oh, how's your thoughts?

• 17:45Speaker 03

  Oh, no, I thought CR was still.

• 17:47Speaker 01

  No, I'm just saying, this is, this is it. This is the moment. You're not, you're never going to get a guy like Giannis to be like, I, I, I'm signing with Detroit. So this is, this is the, the shot you have.

• 17:57Speaker 03

  Totally agree with all of that. And on top of it, it's a lot of pressure on Cade. And I don't mean like, you know, the psychological, whatever.

• 18:07Bill Simmons?

  No, it's the game to game, fourth quarter.

• 18:09Speaker 03

  Game to game. It's the same as Maxey. Like I want both those guys to take a little all-star trip to Boca, trip to Cabo, whatever they need. Get those guys away from basketball for a little while. They're going to go to the All-Star. Both Maxey and Cade are both starting. And I know for sure Maxey's starting, right?

• 18:29Speaker 01

  Brunson's starting?

• 18:30Speaker 03

  Oh, okay. Well, whatever. Fine.

• 18:33Bill Simmons?

  I think all three of them might be starting. I thought Maxey and Cade were starting and Jaylen Brown and Brunson. Isn't that what it is?

• 18:38Speaker 03

  Those guys really need are breaks from basketball so they can get ready for the playoff run. And that's why Giannis to Detroit makes an enormous amount of sense. It immediately changes the impact. It turns, it takes this version of Cade, which is like a 9.875 out of 10.

• 18:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 18:55Speaker 03

  Into, you know, north of 10 potentially. And Giannis will, will absolutely love it. I just, there's nothing in this that's interesting to me if I'm Milwaukee.

• 19:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 19:06Speaker 03

  Not one piece of this interests me.

• 19:08Bill Simmons?

  If you're Detroit and you end up with Giannis, with Cade, with Dern.

• 19:14Bill Simmons?

  With Thompson, with a couple shooters, you're feeling great.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  Would anyone ever score again on that team?

• 19:20Bill Simmons?

  Well, and then a rejuvenated Giannis too on top of it. I think House made the key point. There's too much on Cade in these games. I think it's, I'm not that scared of them in a playoff series like you normally would be with a one seed, because I think there's a sameness to how they play that I think is gonna be trouble for them. If you're seeing it for seven straight games, you know, over the course of two weeks, it's like, oh, you're gonna do the thing where just Cade has to come up with something again? Like at some point, you need more than that. I don't think they have enough.

• 19:48Speaker 03

  Malik Beasley, who was on their team, who they were about to resign. Goodness gracious.

• 19:53Bill Simmons?

  Speaking of the Knicks, this would be the trade. I don't think either team should do, well, the Knicks would do this, but Townsend and Ananobi to Milwaukee, Giannis with Portis and Kuzma, who would be the Giannis trade tax, who's got a deal for this year or next year. And that actually works under the cap. And that would be the lateral move trade for the Bucks. I have no idea why they would do that. I would just keep Giannis at that point. I would, I would reject that. I think you guys agree.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  Yes. I mean, it would have been an interesting hypothetical world to live in if they had lost to Brooklyn yesterday.

• 20:29Bill Simmons?

  It was like full panic. It would be more interesting if they had like three first round picks they could throw into a framework, like all the Bridges picks, basically.

• 20:36Speaker 03

  Right.

• 20:37Bill Simmons?

  I, before we keep going, I want to mention something. It's a point I made a month ago and it was near the end of the podcast and I thought it was a really important point. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna basically karaoke it. Do we think Wes Giannis as an all time guy?

• 20:52Bill Simmons?

  When he seems really available right now and everybody's like, eh, like Philly would be like, no, we're not, Max is off the table. No, thanks. I just wonder like, I made the point that in, you know, the mid 2000s, if Duncan, like when KG became available, every team in the league was trying to figure out how to get KG. When, if Duncan was never available, if Duncan had been available, every team in the league would have been like, what do you want? Maxey? Done. Let's call it in right now. Something about Giannis and how particular his offensive game is, and I don't know, and maybe his age, but it's, I don't know if his trade value is, is as high as maybe I think it is in my head. So what do you think of that, House?

• 21:36Speaker 03

  Not only do I vehemently disagree.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  Great.

• 21:39Speaker 03

  I vehemently disagree. I think it's impossible in the collective bargaining agreement world that we live in now with aprons and every other sort of, all of these nonsensical efforts at a hard cap in basketball to, to measure era against era. This is a one of one and we still haven't really yet gotten to the full effect of the ramifications, the, the barriers to, to, to the old school way of doing trades and stuff. And only thing that teams are looking at, this is my sense, is what's our flexibility? Flexibility is the thing. Cap space. There's nothing more

• 22:20Speaker 03

  valuable in the NBA than, than, than cap space and flexibility. And so that now becomes the, that, that's much more important than how much Giannis is going to help your basketball team this season or next season.

• 22:33Speaker 01

  I wonder if it's just also a referendum on, he's now, it's, it's been an unhappy situation for several years now. So it's, it's, we've got equal amount of years of, not necessarily him being unhappy, but the Bucks not firing on all cylinders or having a postseason, you know, combustion because, you know, he gets injured or something like that. So I, I wonder whether or not people are like, I'm going to keep my powder dry or I like my team, you know. Uh, we're going to go through a couple of other teams and I do think Zach and Kirk, we're talking on Zach's show the other day about there is just a, a popcorn butts in seats ratings and jerseys element to getting Giannis and getting one of the like most recognizable names in the sport that I think most owners in this league would probably be like, yeah,

• 23:18Speaker 01

  I want that. But I don't think it's any kind of like referendum on his ability or his, his legacy or all time standing.

• 23:28Bill Simmons?

  It's just hard for me to believe the three best teams in the league are like, yeah, we're good. And Giannis is basically on Amazon right now in a lightning deal.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  Amazon comes along, if you, if you buy one battle on 4K, you get Giannis.

• 23:44Bill Simmons?

  Well, did you see the, the Kurt Russell movie Breakdown was, was lightning deal or it was like 50% off? And I was like,

• 23:51Speaker 01

  That's how they get you.

• 23:52Bill Simmons?

  I was like, oh, that's a pretty good price for Breakdown. I really like that movie. I get the train crash in, in 4K. All right, next one. We're starting to move a little more realistic, but I still don't like this either. It's Miami and there's a lot of variations where you could go with this. And I actually brought in a third team, the one I sent to you, where Miami has to give up Bam in the trade, in my opinion. When we were doing this two months ago, it was Khalil Ware, it was Hero and picks. And I, I just don't think that's going to do it. And also Bam's, maybe his trade value has dipped a little bit with how he's looked offensively this year. So anyway, the trade would be Miami gets Giannis and Portis, Atlanta gets Bam.

• 24:33Bill Simmons?

  Milwaukee gets the Rozier contract, which I'm just trading until Adam Silver tells me not to, because still waiting on a ruling for him. The Porzingis expiring, Reese Shaye, um, three Miami picks and they get their New Orleans or Milwaukee pick back.

• 24:49Bill Simmons?

  And they get all of that and they give up Giannis. And now we're in the neighborhood of, there's a lot of assets there that you'd have to think about. So as you look at that, what makes the least sense out of those three CR?

• 25:02Speaker 01

  For, for which team makes it, does it make the least amount of sense?

• 25:05Bill Simmons?

  Which team is probably like eh?

• 25:08Speaker 01

  I would probably say,

• 25:12Speaker 01

  Atlanta, I guess, doesn't, why, why would Atlanta get, help people out here? But,

• 25:19Bill Simmons?

  Well, if you could get, if you could basically trade Reese Shaye and that New Orleans pick you have.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  Bam, I see.

• 25:24Bill Simmons?

  And you get Bam.

• 25:26Speaker 01

  I gotta say, when you did this, I, I, I put together my like starting lineup for the Heat and I was like, That's, that's nerve wracking. That, that, that would be like the newly constructed Heat would be nerve wracking. Um, I don't know if you, if you're throwing in all those picks, I think, I think this is the best deal that you, you sent us, honestly.

• 25:45Bill Simmons?

  Wow. What do you think, House?

• 25:47Speaker 03

  CR beat me to it. I quite like this trade and I don't know why you have it in the, in a lesser realistic kind of place. It feels very realistic to me.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  Probably because it was like Bam was like off, off the table for a long time. And now it's like, okay, what are we talking about here? Like if you could do Ware and Giannis in a frontcourt.

• 26:06Bill Simmons?

  I mean, I guess the hard part is you, anytime there's a three teamer, that's why I make it less realistic. I think the three teams hard. Atlanta would have to decide the Rich Chisholm pick and the chance to move into the top three with that New Orleans or Milwaukee pick. You're just cashing in with Bam right now. And I don't know if they would do that. I don't not, maybe Rich Chisholm is just not in the trade. Maybe it's just that pick only and they get Bam. But the, the Celtics fan side of me is looking at it going, fuck, if Miami could somehow just turn Bam and expirings and picks into Giannis and Portis, who would be the most heat guy since Haslem? Like that would, I'd be a little nervous about that.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  They basically like, they could not get a single injury to their starting five.

• 26:49Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  But they would be terrifying in a playoff series.

• 26:53Bill Simmons?

  Next one. All right. So we marked that one down. We liked that one the most. Next one is just a straight one with the Lakers. It's just Luca and Kleba's expiring for Giannis.

• 27:06Speaker 03

  What'd you just say?

• 27:07Bill Simmons?

  I didn't put that one on my list with you guys. I wanted the, uh, the reaction.

• 27:12Bill Simmons?

  It's just the Lakers saying fuck it and turning Luca into Giannis, paying Reeves, keeping LeBron.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  Bill, is, is Rich Paul in the room with you?

• 27:20Bill Simmons?

  No, I'm just, I want to talk it out. The part that makes no sense is Luca going to Milwaukee. But if you're Milwaukee, you do this now and you have two weeks to trade Luca. It's a Luca auction. Remember when all the teams were mad last year?

• 27:33Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 27:33Bill Simmons?

  Remember last year when they're like Utah? They were like, we have 17 picks. We would have traded all of them for Luca if we knew he was available. It's like, all right, Milwaukee has now acquired Luca. Here's the auction. Let's go. You guys got two weeks to make us your best. And then, and then they basically just shop.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  So is the idea here that, uh, Giannis would fix the Lakers defensive problems and then it's Reeves and LeBron and that's, that's the team?

• 27:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Boy. It's not bad.

• 28:03Speaker 03

  It's a terrible trade.

• 28:05Bill Simmons?

  It's not bad. It's not bad. No, it's not gonna happen. It would be one of those, I do feel like out of all the things on this list. Were you moving towards realistic?

• 28:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, that, why did you drop that one in here now?

• 28:19Bill Simmons?

  You thought I should have started with that one? Yeah, maybe.

• 28:21Speaker 03

  It's by far the least realistic.

• 28:23Bill Simmons?

  Is it?

• 28:25Speaker 03

  Well.

• 28:27Bill Simmons?

  If you're the Lakers.

• 28:28Speaker 03

  The idea of trading Luca again.

• 28:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 28:30Speaker 03

  Why? For what? Under what circumstances?

• 28:33Bill Simmons?

  Got Reeves? I don't know. I'm starting in there. Starting shit.

• 28:38Bill Simmons?

  Haven't you done enough?

• 28:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:42Bill Simmons?

  We'll take a break and then we'll keep going. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. We are in the second to last weekend. Three games left, two this weekend, a trip to Super Bowl LX60 on the line. FanDuel is turning on playoff mode. Right now, all customers get a profit boost pack during the conference championship round, AKA round three. That means you'll find a pack loaded with multiple profit boosts waiting for you in the app. More boosts means more ways to level up your playoff bets. We are going to be covering all of them when we make Ringer 107 picks a little bit later in this podcast with Peter Schreger and Joe House. So get ready for that. Visit FanDuel.com/NFL. Grab your profit boost pack for the NFC and AFC championships.

• 29:28Bill Simmons?

  You must be 21 plus, present in select states, or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky, Wyoming. Opt-in required. Bonus issued as non-durable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Game problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut. All right, coming back with some Yannis trades. Here's another one on the list that I did not send you, and it involves the Philadelphia 76ers. And here's the trade.

• 30:03Bill Simmons?

  It's Giannis and the Gary Harris tiny contract.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  Always loved Gary Harris.

• 30:09Bill Simmons?

  For Paul George, the 2029 Clips Phillies swap pick that Milwaukee has in VJ Edgcombe.

• 30:20Speaker 01

  No.

• 30:21Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  No.

• 30:23Speaker 03

  Flat out no for the Sixers.

• 30:25Bill Simmons?

  It said no.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  Uh, I, I wanna move on. I wanna, I wanna, I wanna live in the world where VJ and Maxey are the backcourt and I don't wanna watch Embiid and Giannis occupy the same areas of the floor.

• 30:41Bill Simmons?

  So CR is telling us that VJ Edgcombe has a higher trade value.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  No, I'm just saying that there's like.

• 30:46Bill Simmons?

  Than Giannis Antetokounmpo. I'm just, I'm trying to get this straight.

• 30:49Speaker 01

  There's a five to 10 year future of this team that doesn't exist the way you just set it up. And I wanna cheer for like a fun, young backcourt. It's been a while since like I got to do that. So if you're just asking me as a fan, I'm cool, I'm cool standing pat. You know what I mean? Like this is a fun team to watch on a night to night basis. A little bit maddening generational divide sometimes on the court, but I don't, I don't think so.

• 31:15Speaker 03

  This goes right to the heart of what I was trying to articulate, maybe not so artfully a short bit ago in terms of how do you properly assess Giannis' trade value? It doesn't make any sense for him to go to Philly.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Would Giannis and Embiid, would you, would you say they were the favorites in the Eastern Conference?

• 31:31Bill Simmons?

  You know what's, I wouldn't. That, the reason to do this as a long time, uh, Daryl's been in my life for 20 years now. Daryl has always been one of those, if I have three of the best guys and I can win the title, I'm gonna move the math my way. And this trade would end up giving them Giannis and Maxey in the same team with the Embiid wildcard. And you could say, wow, if we can get Embiid somewhat healthy in April, May, June, and I also have Giannis and Maxey who are two All-Star starters in an depleted conference, I can make the finals. That would be the conversation you would have. I don't think they would do it either.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  How old is Giannis?

• 32:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 32:13Bill Simmons?

  Yes, I'm sexy, our end. Yanis is 31. He was in the 2013 draft.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  You know how you're like, you, you take the phone call, you go have the coffee? It's like, let's get the coffee, let's walk around the block a couple of times. But I don't.

• 32:28Bill Simmons?

  See, this is like Zodiac where I'm Jake Gyllenhaal and you're Ruffalo.

• 32:33Bill Simmons?

  And I'm like, Arthur Lee Allen, live 50 yards away. And you're like, no, I don't know. It's not him. Handwriting sample said no.

• 32:42Speaker 01

  I know.

• 32:43Bill Simmons?

  I think you're right. I think they probably would not do this because they'd be afraid of how mad the fanbase would be. Cause the fanbase has already decided, this is great. Maxie and BJ, sign us up. We're good. House is laughing. He loves this.

• 32:57Speaker 03

  Well, I, I do think it makes sense. It's, it's bananas for the, the Sixers to just sit tight. They should move off of Paul George by any means necessary, but.

• 33:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but that's, he has two years left after this one. So you, you could say you're getting off Paul George. You're using the edge come thing to do that.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  God, you have no idea how fun it is to watch him play. Like it's, he's such a fun player.

• 33:20Bill Simmons?

  So if I do trade value again, forget about like all the reasons for it. I do think VJ Edgecombe might have a higher trade value than Yanis, as crazy as that sounds on a rookie deal. 40 games into the season and it's like, we can't trade him. He might be fucking Dwyane Wade. Like for real, this might be mid 2000s Dwyane Wade again. We're not trading him.

• 33:43Speaker 01

  I love him, man. I, I just, I, I don't know how contagious that, that is for everybody else in the national scheme of things. Watching him, but it's, it would be really tough to watch him go away. And also like, so what's Yanis's current deal? How many years is he?

• 33:59Bill Simmons?

  Like two years left, so you'd have to worry about that.

• 34:02Speaker 01

  But do you wind up going right back into, will Yanis stay or will he go? And is Yanis happy? And does Yanis like Nick Nurse? And does Yanis like playing with Joel Embiid? And does Yanis like the apartment that he got in Philly, like, or whatever? You know what I mean? Like, I don't, I, I just, I'm just really, really enjoying the page turning that's happening for the Sixers.

• 34:21Bill Simmons?

  CR was like Andrew McCarthy in San Jose Fire. He's like, I love her, man. I just love Maxie, man. Roll out his eyes. All right, we're moving on to the next one. I did not come up with this idea. It did come from a, a mailbag emailer named Will.

• 34:39Bill Simmons?

  Jason Tatum for Giannis, straight up. I'm glad that you're doing some self-reflection here. He wrote, "I don't want to do this, but this Celtics team is the honest team that he's always needed. JB is the exact teammate that Giannis needs. This team and what they have going this season, this team Giannis needs. I don't want to do it. Tatum's gonna be awesome. But would you have to have a meeting about it?" I wouldn't do it. Would you have the meeting? I would. I just, I think karma wise, no. I love Tatum. I think he has a chance to have a Curry type of career. It is amazing how logical a basketball trade it is because for Milwaukee, it's an official tank, right? They'll tell Tatum, "Come back in October." And then Boston

• 35:21Bill Simmons?

  just turns Tatum into Giannis, basically. So basketball wise, makes sense, but I don't think Boston would ever do that. Would Danny Ainge do it? Danny Ainge would have done it already.

• 35:32Bill Simmons?

  He, he already, Tatum would already- He would have done it while Jason Tatum was on the crowd. He would have done it as Tatum was working out on Monday. It would have been done. I don't think anyone else that is affiliated with this team would do it, though. But it is a really interesting basketball trade. All right. The only, so there's three teams plus this next one. And this is the last, like semi unrealistic one, even though you guys like my Miami trade. But there's a Golden State scenario where it could be Giannis and Kuzma. Kuzma's the honest tax. Milwaukee gets Butler's contract, which he's not playing this year and maybe comes back trade deadline next year. You could either trade him, whatever. Kaminga, Podzemski, and then just all of the picks and swaps you can possibly get from Golden State. You're like, "I'll take all of them."

• 36:17Bill Simmons?

  And you just go for broke. Yeah. "I'll take all of them. Give me the next seven years of stuff you have. And in whatever order you want to do, I'll take everything you have." And you're basically betting on shorting the Warriors. And if you're the Warriors, you're like, "We have this generational Curry thing going on that where you still might have three, four years left. We're adding Giannis. We can build around this. Who cares about the picks?"

• 36:41Bill Simmons?

  It's mildly interesting. It becomes more interesting now that Butler's hurt because it helps Milwaukee this year. But what'd you think of this house?

• 36:48Speaker 03

  I need to know more about what the picks are. Do they have their own first round picks for the foreseeable future at Golden State?

• 36:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they have a, I have it here. I have a whole document. They have their, basically all their own first round picks. And then they have this weird 2030 situation with Washington where-

• 37:10Speaker 03

  Not weird. Washington got that for Jordan Poole.

• 37:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but it's like they still, it's, they still keep it under a lot of different scenarios, right? So, that's sad. I don't think this trade will happen. I think Golden State would be nuts to mortgage their entire future for a Curry Giannis and nothing else.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, it's like, it's almost like it's too late, you know, like they could have mortgaged their future a year or two ago.

• 37:34Speaker 03

  Well, they did, kind of. That was the Jimmy Butler acquisition.

• 37:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, all right, we'll move on.

• 37:39Speaker 03

  Just towards ACL, that's all.

• 37:40Bill Simmons?

  Three teams left. Here's the big, here's the big three.

• 37:44Bill Simmons?

  We gotta talk about the Rockets. I did every machination. The one I sent you guys was just Giannis, Ben Bleed's in it, Shengun, the 27 Phoenix first, and an unprotected 2031 Houston first. Maybe one more pick needs to be in, I don't know, but you're basically turning Giannis into Shengun, $20 million less a year and a couple picks. And it seems like a pretty fair trade.

• 38:09Speaker 01

  I think that if I was Milwaukee, this would probably be the most excited I would be.

• 38:13Bill Simmons?

  You're getting a young center who's on a really good contract.

• 38:16Speaker 01

  Who might even be, I mean, at least like analytically or statistically would probably even pop more in a, in a world where there wasn't so much sharing going on.

• 38:26Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 38:26Speaker 01

  Um, even though he's a great passer, but yeah, uh, I think this would get me the most piped up.

• 38:31Bill Simmons?

  House, would you rather pursue him or Amen Thompson if you had a choice?

• 38:36Speaker 03

  Ooh, that's a great-

• 38:37Bill Simmons?

  Which player do you like more as a building block for the next 10 years?

• 38:42Speaker 03

  I might be higher than is rational on Sengun. I think Amen Thompson is going to be incredible. He already is incredible. But the, I feel like this is just the, the direction the league is, is in right now. Having somebody around the rim who's as effective as he is.

• 39:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:06Speaker 03

  That, that's, that's an asset. That's a outsized asset in this day and age in my.

• 39:11Speaker 01

  I have no doubt that Amen's going to become like what we all think he's going to become. But it's just like, I feel like you can build around Sengun and you can run.

• 39:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  A system based on him and Amen seems more complimentary.

• 39:24Bill Simmons?

  Both of those Thompson kids, like the, the stuff that came on Monday night, they weren't even guarding the Detroit Thompson at the end of the game. Yeah, they were just like, do whatever you want, man. So he was kind of roaming around like a free safety on offense. But um, I gotta say, I wouldn't do this about Houston.

• 39:44Bill Simmons?

  It's weird because the Durant timeline kind of confuses them. It feels like then they should have urgency because the ages happen. That I, that wouldn't make me want to, I, I still feel like Shengun and Thompson. I care about that with Jabari and with Reed, and I feel like that's my team and that's my team for the next seven years. And KD can help us with the ceiling of it, but I'm not making trades because I have KD, I think is where I've landed. And I wouldn't do it. I would keep Shengun, especially 20 million less. So it sounds like we all agree. This next one's more interesting. So I sent you Yanis, the Kuzma tax and a small contract coffee for the cell. Olenek's expiring, Barnes is expiring and Dylan Harper.

• 40:30Bill Simmons?

  Under the old adage, if you're going to get something, you gotta give up something. So it's like, you want Yanis? Give us Dylan Harper.

• 40:40Bill Simmons?

  Like pony up.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  I don't think the Spurs would do this.

• 40:44Bill Simmons?

  I don't either.

• 40:46Bill Simmons?

  It's a realistic basketball trade, though. It's a really good trade.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  Basketball trade.

• 40:50Bill Simmons?

  It's a real, it's exactly the kind of trade if the Bucks are gonna trade Giannis. And they're like, what'd you get back? We got a guy who can be an all NBA guard in four years. Have you seen him? I mean, if anything, he's fallen off a little for San Antonio because they're too good. Like they.

• 41:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:05Bill Simmons?

  He actually is a little, been a little up and down, but House, your thoughts?

• 41:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I'm looking at it and I'm like, well, where are the picks? Because if I'm Milwaukee, I want some picks. But the answer is, well, the pick is, we have a pick. You have a pick is Dylan Harper.

• 41:18Bill Simmons?

  They were sending a franchise, potential franchise guy.

• 41:21Speaker 03

  And, and guess what? You, you don't have to go into a draft and take a swing. This guy can play. We've seen him. He can play in the NBA. He can be impactful and the ceiling.

• 41:31Speaker 01

  Ready to be more than what he is now, even like at his early age.

• 41:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  Um, if, this is kind of similar to the Philadelphia conversation, but if you're San Antonio, aren't you thinking these guys are on Wemby's timeline? Uh, we like our team. We've worked really hard to get this. We got really lucky with Castle and Harper.

• 41:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  We have Fox, like, we're very excited about this guard rotation. Like, why disrupt it?

• 41:57Bill Simmons?

  That's how I would, that's where I would land if I was San Antonio. I would not do this trade.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  I wonder if people are listening and they're like, you're insane. If you have a chance to get Giannis, you do anything you can.

• 42:09Bill Simmons?

  I guess the question is, if I'm trading for Giannis, I need to feel like I'm actually gonna win the title. Like when the Celtics traded for KG and that what they gave up ended up not being maybe as potent as it seemed in the deal. But it was like, we're getting this and we now are the favorites in the East with this trade and have a chance. I don't know if San Antonio did this, if I would feel like they were the favorites in the West. I would still think it's OKC. So.

• 42:35Speaker 03

  How would they play together? That's part of the thing.

• 42:37Bill Simmons?

  When being Giannis together, I'm not even positive I like it. I think they should trade for Trey Murphy and actually overpay for him. That would be, I talked about that on Tuesday. All right, so we're crossing them off. Well, this last team, this is the deal that made the most sense to me by far. It made the most sense six weeks ago. It makes the most sense now. It's especially now that CJ McCollum's an expiring contract. And you can put him and Porzingis together, two expiring 60 million. Reese Shea, that New Orleans or Milwaukee pick. They also have the worst version of the Bucks or New Orleans pick in 27. Give that back. Maybe even give them another one and just give Atlanta Giannis. And now if I'm Atlanta.

• 43:21Bill Simmons?

  I have Giannis, I have Jalen Johnson, Daniels, and I can patch together everything else. And I'm relevant in a way that I just, even though they've had good teams, they had a 60 win team once. It's different. This would be the biggest, the biggest star they've ever had on the Hawks since like Bob Pettit. And I love Dominique Wilkins, but it's just a fact. Giannis would be the biggest star they've had.

• 43:41Speaker 03

  Bob Pettit.

• 43:42Speaker 01

  What it's worth, I wonder if that, if Giannis, I mean, I don't know how much Giannis, uh, obviously hasn't officially requested a trade. I don't know how much influence he's going to have over a prospective destination. But I wonder if he wants to stay in the Eastern Conference. Just to, to stay out of the, the, the bloodbath in the West. So you stay in the East, it's, it's a soft East. This is why I was excited about this for Detroit even.

• 44:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  It's like you just have an easier path to the finals this way, I think.

• 44:14Bill Simmons?

  House?

• 44:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, I agree with that.

• 44:18Speaker 03

  The thing I wonder about to the point, you know, the observation around what, what would Giannis want?

• 44:26Speaker 03

  Don't, doesn't he want to go to a team that he feels like he can take over the hump?

• 44:32Bill Simmons?

  That's the problem with this trade. If I'm Yannis, I'm like, well, the Hawks have three more wins than the team I'm on now.

• 44:40Speaker 03

  Right.

• 44:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:42Bill Simmons?

  That would be the issue. That's why that Miami trade is, is kind of fun because it's basically the same trade, except you're just putting him in the Bam spot with Portis. And now you could, now I have this Spoelstra as my coach and I have a bunch of shooters and maybe I have more of a chance.

• 44:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. My body fat content is already heat, heat level, you know, I don't have to worry about that.

• 45:02Bill Simmons?

  The thing I don't know yet, because nobody knows, is how loyal they would be to a Yannis trade request where he's like, I've decided I'd like to be traded and I'd like to go to Houston, you know, or wherever he says where he's just like, I want to go to that team. What is the responsibility to them, to them make a deal with that team when you basically don't have the leverage? We saw this with allegedly with Durant, with Phoenix and Brooklyn, when they basically just figured out that whole trade and didn't involve other teams. We've seen teams do this, but that's a pretty tough, tough spot to be in if you're the Bucks. Where somebody's like, trade me but one spot.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  Like House, do you get the impression that like, once Yannis disappears, if Yannis leaves, is off the Bucks, like, I don't feel like there's a lot of guys working at the Bucks who are going to be there next year, right? So like, they're not incentivized to be like, oh yeah, and then we'll work on this five-year rebuild, you know? Like they're probably like, there goes my job with this. So I think that changes things a little bit.

• 46:02Speaker 03

  Well, you, you would have to have so much confidence around the picks that come back.

• 46:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 46:09Speaker 03

  For, with that. And the problem with Houston is we all think Houston's going to be good for at least the next three years. Probably longer, but at least the next three.

• 46:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I, I think when they have, when they have, well, now Adams is hurt, but when they had their two centers with everybody else, I'm like, this team, I would not want to see this team in a series ever. Um, as soon as one of those guys is missing, it feels different, but I, I thought the, the size that they have is really unlike anything anyone else has.

• 46:40Bill Simmons?

  All right. Well, I don't even know where we landed. No, no crazy wildcard team. No. I looked. I tried. Well, to me, it was the Lakers and you guys laughed me out of the room. Excuse me of trying to start shit. Why did you say Luca? I'm sorry, I'm giving a. Clutch. My butt cheeks together.

• 47:01Bill Simmons?

  I listed 10 teams. Yeah. He traded a top seven guy for a top seven guy. That's, that would be. By the way, if they traded Giannis for Luca, I think that would be the biggest pound for pound NBA trade ever. I was trying to think like from an actual, like the talent of the two guys and the stature. Cause like, remember when the kid Marbury trade was just a straight up? And, and we were like, wow, that what a cool trade. Like a slightly younger, awesome point guard for in his prime point guard. These never happened. Trades like the one for ones never happened like that.

• 47:35Speaker 03

  But why again, wouldn't Tatum for Giannis make sense? Tell me again.

• 47:39Bill Simmons?

  It would make sense. I just don't think Boston would trade Tatum.

• 47:42Speaker 03

  Why?

• 47:43Bill Simmons?

  I just don't. He's, he's gonna be, he's gonna be back by Valentine's Day. Everyone in Boston loves Tatum.

• 47:48Speaker 03

  He's coming off of a torn Achilles. Why wouldn't Boston trade Jason Tatum? He delivered them a freaking title. He made them relevant, competitive for the entirety of the career. You know, they, they were on an accelerated timeline because of him. They made the Eastern Conference Finals a bunch of years.

• 48:09Speaker 03

  Gladly, gladly. I would have, you know, but I'm not in the business of, of, you know, trying to take money out of, out of a good, hardworking people from Bethesda, Northern Virginia. Just come on down here and watch this team flame out in the first round of the playoffs every year. That's not my business. It's none of my business.

• 48:27Bill Simmons?

  Would you trade Jaden Daniels?

• 48:29Speaker 03

  No, I would not.

• 48:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Tatum's pretty beloved. I don't see it.

• 48:35Bill Simmons?

  We'll see. I think out of the actual wild cards, I would say Philly is the wild card, not just because CR is here, just because I think, I think Daryl's like Danny. I don't think he gives a shit. When you talk about the I don't give a shit GMs, Danny in Utah, he's, he's not in this discussion because they're never getting him. I don't think Palenka cares. I think he'll do, he'll, he'll slice somebody's hamstrings if he has to, if it's going to make the team 10% better. I don't think Boston's wired like that right now. And then I, and maybe, maybe Riley used to be wired like that, I guess.

• 49:07Speaker 01

  Well, the Riley thing would be the last great work, right? That would be like, I'll finally paint my masterpiece after like six years of being in hot and heavy rumors for any given available star and missing out on Dame and Durant and everybody.

• 49:23Speaker 03

  I mean, where does Giannis' brothers want to go?

• 49:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 49:26Speaker 03

  Miami has got to be up there.

• 49:26Bill Simmons?

  I forgot to put them in the trades.

• 49:29Speaker 03

  Miami's got to be up there.

• 49:30Speaker 01

  Somehow I think they'll make their way to wherever he is.

• 49:33Bill Simmons?

  By the way, I was reading that Laker story that Baxter did and Baxter was on Zach's pod today for people who listen to this one. About all the bust family drama. And I was thinking, if it got really contentious, wouldn't the fuck you move have been to just trade Bronny?

• 49:49Bill Simmons?

  Like if we were like, we're really starting, we're really, we're tired of this guy. We're really in F you mode with LeBron. Like you just like trade him to Sacramento for, with a second round pick, just like a dump, just to like, just to basically do this. It would have been an amazing trade. I don't think it's that bad. I don't, I don't think it's great, but I don't think it's acrimonious like that. I don't think Genie's like that unless it's.

• 50:12Speaker 01

  That felt like settling some old family business stuff more than it was about LeBron.

• 50:17Bill Simmons?

  Pretty fascinating. I got an email from somebody that asked me what family was more fucked up, the bust family or the Roy's?

• 50:26Speaker 01

  It's close. It's close.

• 50:29Bill Simmons?

  It really does feel like the Bus family matched that last season of the of the Roy kids just ready to fuck each other over for the throne, no matter what it took. Right? That helmet wasn't there.

• 50:41Speaker 01

  I had no idea how many brothers were employed by the Lakers in different jobs and were pulling.

• 50:47Bill Simmons?

  Then there was another one that was like the.

• 50:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:49Bill Simmons?

  I didn't even know about Sean Bus. That was the mother's kid. It wasn't even I didn't even understand that one. Yeah, that. It's really something.

• 51:00Bill Simmons?

  I this worked out great for the Lakers. They have the Dodgers owner who's spent a kajillion dollars and doesn't seem to care about Buddy. I would say it was probably a win for them. We'll see how it goes. CR, who's your football picks this weekend?

• 51:13Speaker 01

  Seahawks and Patriots.

• 51:16Bill Simmons?

  All right. Well, we're gonna send you. Send you packing. I'll see you tomorrow for our three hour Zodiac session.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  I'm just gonna start drinking hot water and lemon right now.

• 51:25Bill Simmons?

  House. House is staying. And we're gonna do some football right after this. So playoff mode has turned on and FanDuel has it all. Same game parlays, quick bets for jumping in live, offers to boost your winnings. Every game day, I'm gonna stay away from the Patriots. Here's a same game parlay I like. On the other side, in the Seahawks Rams, Seahawks money line. Rashid Shaheed, five plus yards rushing. So five, five yard run, he's got it. Cooper Cup, 30 plus yards. That is plus 420. On FanDuel. You can use your 30% SGP profit boost token as well. Getting even higher payout. Wow, look at that. Tell my bet, make your own bet on another game.

• 52:07Bill Simmons?

  The possibilities are endless during playoff mode with FanDuel. This episode is brought to you by Workday. Guessing is for game shows, not your business, especially when your margin for error is zero. Workday is the enterprise AI platform for HR, finance and IT. With a deep understanding of your organization's context and guardrails. So every AI action is permission aware, giving you accuracy 24/7 and the ability to not just get work done, but get it done right. It's a new Workday. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Excitement is in the air. That's right. It's the start of NBA season. I can't wait to get together with friends, share some Michelob Ultras and watch Tip Off. Plus, as the official beer sponsor of the NBA,

• 52:52Bill Simmons?

  Michelob Ultra is getting you closer to the action with experiences that make you feel like you're courtside to actual courtside tickets. Enter now for a chance to win at michelobultra.com/courtside. Michelob Ultra Courtside 26 to 27. No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents 21 plus. Begins on October 1st, 2026. Ends on June 30th, 2027. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at michelobultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. This episode is brought to you by PNC Bank. In today's sports, everyone is constantly trying to outdo each other. Trick formations, infield shifts, constant rotation changes. Yet it's proven time and time again that strong fundamentals are the thing that will lead you to victory. Banking, no different.

• 53:36Bill Simmons?

  While everyone else tries to outdo each other, PNC Bank just keeps going right down the middle with steady, calculated money moves and the financial wins just keep coming. PNC Bank, brilliantly boring since 1865. Brilliantly boring since 1865 is a registered mark of the PNC Financial Services Group, Incorporated. PNC Bank, National Association Member, FDIC. All right, Peter Schreger is here. You can see him on ESPN. Sometimes on shows with three or four people, sometimes on shows with six. Like I saw today, it was a six-person studio show. I always admire ESPN's, uh, ESPN's pursuance, persistence? What's the right word? Pursuance works, man. Is pursuance a word? I don't even know.

• 54:21Bill Simmons?

  How about insistence? Yeah. Before you popped on, you asked us, what was the first conference championship game you remember watching? House has no long-term memories, so it's tougher question for him.

• 54:35Speaker 02

  You, you and I.

• 54:36Bill Simmons?

  What is it?

• 54:36Speaker 02

  You and I have that, that brain where like, I remember exactly where I was, when I was watching it, who I was with, and I just posed it because I, I've, you guys are sports junkies. I want to hear your answers.

• 54:48Bill Simmons?

  Well, I thought I had that brain until I forgot the Seahawks won the Super Bowl on Sunday's pod.

• 54:53Speaker 02

  That's on Sal. Come on.

• 54:54Speaker 03

  That was this week.

• 54:56Bill Simmons?

  Terrible.

• 54:56Speaker 03

  Amazing. Horrific.

• 54:58Bill Simmons?

  I genuinely think the first one I remember watching was the Drew Pearson game. Was that conference championship?

• 55:05Speaker 02

  The Hail Mary?

• 55:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that, wasn't that a conference championship game?

• 55:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. Is it 77?

• 55:10Bill Simmons?

  No, that was like 75. I remember watching that game though.

• 55:14Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 55:17Bill Simmons?

  And then I, probably somewhere in the 75, 76 range.

• 55:21Speaker 02

  Cause you used to have a column and I used to love it. And this was probably when you, it was probably 15, 20 years ago, where one time you just wrote out every Super Bowl, the winner, the loser, and the MVP.

• 55:31Bill Simmons?

  What I remember to the game?

• 55:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm like, this guy shares my brain. Mine is 1990, Candlestick Park, Leonard Marshall, sacking Joe Montana, Gary reasons on the fake punt, and then, you know, Lawrence Taylor recovering the Roger Craig, and then Matt Park hits the field goal. I know exactly where I was in my living room as a kid with my father and my brother. And I was eight years old. But that's the earliest conference championship game memory I have. House, what about you?

• 56:00Bill Simmons?

  Oh, so I don't, that was before the conference championship, my pick. That was around before.

• 56:04Speaker 02

  So what was it? Just a playoff game?

• 56:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I don't remember the 75 ones. I do remember Vikings Rams in 76.

• 56:10Speaker 02

  79?

• 56:11Bill Simmons?

  That was 76. Cause I love, I loved Sammy White as a kid. He was the only non-patriot I liked. Remember Sammy White, House?

• 56:18Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 56:19Bill Simmons?

  I love Sammy White. So I, I, I remember watching that game. So what was yours, House?

• 56:24Speaker 03

  Um, the 1982, 83 Washington Redskins, because that was like, you know, at an age where, uh, oh, I shouldn't say this out loud.

• 56:33Bill Simmons?

  Say it.

• 56:34Speaker 03

  I could be a lusty fan. I was gonna make, I had something, I was gonna talk about it, but like, the stage of my own development, my, you know, as the pre-presidents and the, all of that. Um, I was, I, I, it was Washington against Dallas in the conference championship, 1982, for the chance to go to the, to the Super Bowl. Uh, and I was with, you know, my, my cohort, and we were all, ah, going crazy for it.

• 57:00Speaker 02

  You know, you're watching just Mark Mosley bang field goals and you're banging it. Okay, okay, yeah, okay.

• 57:04Bill Simmons?

  This is something I've been-

• 57:05Speaker 03

  We beat Dallas's ass. That, that's the key.

• 57:08Bill Simmons?

  This is something I've been thinking about a lot the last couple of weeks, because I started following that Kevin Gallagher guy who just posted clips on football. But I, I had never been following him until December, and he was posting these games. And I was realizing that, first of all, I've been watching football now since, you know, 74, 75 range, right? And all these huge games, and I cared about all of them, and I watched them and I thought about them. And then when I, I was writing a column, I was writing extensively about them, podcasting about them. But there's almost been too many. So I started this document two weeks ago, and I was just writing down all the games-

• 57:43Speaker 02

  Oh, I love this.

• 57:43Bill Simmons?

  Just with the scores to like, refresh my memory. And I wrote down all the conference championship games.

• 57:51Bill Simmons?

  What I realized, you think about it, there's two games a year, and House and I, we, we go back to 1974, 75 range. That's over 50 conference title games in each conference. So now that's just 100 games out of those, 100 plus-

• 58:08Speaker 02

  That are in your brain.

• 58:09Bill Simmons?

  Plus, like, 52 to 54 Super Bowls. So these are 160 of the most important games that I watched. That I kind of have to jog my memory to remember what happened. It's not like baseball house. Basketball, I can still remember all the stuff.

• 58:26Speaker 02

  See, I could tell you about Steelers Colts and you know, Harbaugh playing Pittsburgh in 95. Like, I remember all of these games. And I think NBA, I would be a little shakier, but like,

• 58:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I go backwards with NBA. With NFL, I'm always like moving forward. Like today, that somebody was talking about the, on Twitter was talking about Marino's last chance in 95, the Chargers game.

• 58:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:50Bill Simmons?

  And Stojakovic missed the, Stojakovic missed the 48 yarder. I was like, I think I bet on this game and I think I, I think I covered and I just went on YouTube and I watched the last five minutes of it. And it was fucking awesome. The Chargers, the Chargers went down, they scored with like 30 seconds left, then Marino got a pass interference. And I was like, this is great. I was like, it's almost like we have football amnesia. I didn't remember any of the details. I was like, I might just spend the offseason just watching one football game a day until the playoffs.

• 59:22Speaker 02

  And I think you'll appreciate this. There's, there's a, there's like one that's called like Giants VHS tapes, the Twitter feed. They'll show the intros to the games. So it's like, you know, Summer All in Madden 92, you know, it's Cowboys versus Cowboys versus Niners. You know, it's just like, you get chills and you're there.

• 59:43Bill Simmons?

  The ads, the ads are great. I really, House, I really missed Dick Emberg. That was one of the things, like watching a couple of these.

• 59:50Speaker 02

  He was with Trump a lot, right?

• 59:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he was with Merlin for a while and I was, I just thought he was like lights out. I really liked Charlie Jones was great, but, but yeah. So you think, and one of the recurring themes when you see these old games is how important weather was. It's just this fucking crazy variable that football has where like the Chargers don't win one year because they go to Cincinnati and it's like freezing rain in Cincinnati outdoors and they just

• 1:00:16Speaker 02

  It's the week after Kellen Winslow game, they go to Cincinnati and it's ice cold and it's the coldest game ever played.

• 1:00:21Bill Simmons?

  Basically. But yeah, the weather and last week I felt like, I thought the Bears outplayed the Rams. But I don't know how much of it was weather related that made the Rams look that way. I don't know. What do you take from that game? So, um, but anyway, it's, it's gonna be my off season project house.

• 1:00:38Speaker 03

  I love it.

• 1:00:39Bill Simmons?

  I'm diving through, I'm jogging my memory because I like was writing columns about these games. I barely remember half of them.

• 1:00:45Speaker 02

  Do you ever go back and, and watch or think about any of the Bills AFC championship games in the early 90s?

• 1:00:51Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 1:00:51Speaker 02

  They, they would kick the shit out of these teams. Like I think they beat the Raiders like 53 to three.

• 1:00:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:57Speaker 02

  Just huge blowouts, four years in a row. And then obviously we know what happened in the Super Bowl, but like conference championship week to me has like a real special place. Like, and, and even this week they were interviewing McVeigh and McDonald and Peyton and variable. And there's like an AFC NFC championship logo in like the background of, and like that, even that I get like tingles. Like I, it's very, I don't know. It's very historic and very reminiscent and nostalgic to like these classic weekends as a kid. I love it all.

• 1:01:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I think my favorite non Patriots one was, oh, maybe that wasn't the conference championship. What was the one where Emmett had the sprain, had the separated shoulder?

• 1:01:36Speaker 02

  That was a regular season game.

• 1:01:37Bill Simmons?

  What was the one when?

• 1:01:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was against the Giants.

• 1:01:40Bill Simmons?

  But then in the playoffs, but he wasn't right. And then the playoffs and just kind of threw the Cowboys on his back anyway. I just, I just loved that whole Emmett run was really enjoyable. The Niners, when the Montana got knocked out was an amazing game too. There's, there were so many good ones.

• 1:01:57Bill Simmons?

  We're gonna talk about two games. Which one do you want to start with? Or do you want to do off season stuff first?

• 1:02:04Speaker 02

  No, you choose whatever. I'm so.

• 1:02:06Bill Simmons?

  Before we do the games, give us your number one coaching subplot this week with all the, all the roulette that went around.

• 1:02:13Speaker 02

  Coaching subplot. That's interesting to me.

• 1:02:15Bill Simmons?

  So McDaniel, picking the Chargers job, did he, so he couldn't get a head coaching job? What happened?

• 1:02:21Speaker 02

  He could have been in the running in Cleveland and he said, uh, I'm gonna pull my name. Jim Harbaugh said, we'd love to have you. Basically he knew he wasn't getting the Baltimore job. So he told them he's in. His wife is from Southern California and. He and Harbaugh hit it off. Now, can you imagine the conversations that the two of those guys are going to have?

• 1:02:40Bill Simmons?

  Oh, man.

• 1:02:40Speaker 02

  Two of the most enigmatic personalities in the league, Harbaugh and McDaniel, but they're going together. And then he withdrew his name from the Cleveland interview process, which so did Jesse Minter, but we knew that the reason Minter was withdrawing his name from Cleveland is because he was getting the Baltimore head coaching job today.

• 1:02:58Bill Simmons?

  So I don't blame McDaniel for that because he just lived in a world where he didn't trust his quarterback. And now you go to Cleveland and you're in the same situation with worse weather. Why would I do that? You do, you go to the Chargers, you resuscitate Herbert, maybe even try to get him to win a playoff game before his career ends. And then you're the hot candidate a year from now if it goes well. I think it's smart. You like it, House?

• 1:03:22Speaker 02

  The Buffalo, Buffalo is the one that's, we could really dive into.

• 1:03:27Bill Simmons?

  Well, let's do it. Well, I saw you on TV doing your whole Davis Webb, 30 years old, can you hire your best friend as the coach?

• 1:03:34Speaker 02

  What do you think?

• 1:03:36Bill Simmons?

  I don't know. I don't, I don't know if I'd hire House as my head NFL coach if I was the quarterback. What happens if we disagree on something?

• 1:03:45Speaker 02

  So for the, so he, McDermott gets fired. We have the fiery press conference. Everyone, you know, is crying for Keon Coleman for a full day. And then the next day, it's like, all right, they have to hire a coach. So today, they interviewed Luana Romo and Dable. We're doing this on Thursday. They have Udinski, who's the 30-year-old kid from Jacksonville, interviewing Sunday. Anthony Weaver is interviewing this weekend, and there will be a couple others. The wild card is Davis Webb, who, 30 years old, was Josh Allen's backup for three years. Also, his best friend was, I believe, a groomsman in the wedding. And his final year with the Bills as a backup quarterback was like running the quarterback room, went

• 1:04:29Speaker 02

  to the Giants for a year with Dable. And then Sean Payton, the second he met him was like, you are going to be a coach. You're retiring today. You're going to be a coach. He's been on Payton's hip for the last three years. All this happens. Josh Allen, I'm told, is gonna have a voice in the head coaching process. And that led to this conversation, which I guess we could open it up like, do you let the quarterback have a say, first of all, then B? This is such like, player empowerment era that we see in the NBA. But if he really was to push hard and be like, I want Davis Webb as the coach. Are we okay with that, considering their relationship off the field as blood brothers? Whatever it is.

• 1:05:08Bill Simmons?

  What do you think, S?

• 1:05:10Speaker 03

  Fuck, no. I mean, what are you talking about? It is insane. The quarterback is gonna say who the, what though?

• 1:05:19Speaker 02

  No, no, no, but he might prefer that.

• 1:05:23Speaker 03

  The, the answer, well, I, I mean, I'm not gonna sort of, you know, take too much time on, on Webb. Webb yet could be a, a good answer. It's not the answer to.

• 1:05:38Bill Simmons?

  Certainly seems young to me.

• 1:05:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, right.

• 1:05:40Bill Simmons?

  That's really pushing it.

• 1:05:42Speaker 03

  And the, and the, and his best attribute is he was under the tutelage of, of Peyton. That's a good attribute. What's the, what's the experience in terms of like, being leader of men? Like, we just went through this. We, we have a lot of failures, more failures than not. Dable's the right answer. Bring Webb in as a, as a, you know, whatever. The, the quarterback's coach or whatever. Let him be there in waiting.

• 1:06:09Bill Simmons?

  Um, as you guys were talking, I looked up the Emmett years. It was the 92 one, but it was the year, I think it was the year before he hurt his shoulder. But that, so 92.

• 1:06:22Speaker 02

  They beat the Lions?

• 1:06:22Bill Simmons?

  No, it was, it was Dallas winning in San Francisco in Candlestick, January 93. And Emmett was a.

• 1:06:33Bill Simmons?

  24 for 114, 7 catches for 59, which is fucking awesome. I love Demond Smith. So good.

• 1:06:40Speaker 02

  Who'd they beat in the wild card that year?

• 1:06:42Bill Simmons?

  They beat...

• 1:06:43Speaker 02

  Eagles?

• 1:06:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Eagles. And then they killed the Bills. But the Niners, that was like, it felt like such a big game.

• 1:06:50Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 1:06:50Bill Simmons?

  Like, those Niners, Cowboys, and then when the Redskins were in there for a couple of years, like, Giants were in there. It just was like, those four teams all together, it was great. I want to get back to that. All right, so if it's not, if it's not 30-year-old Davis Webb, who is it then?

• 1:07:05Speaker 02

  Could it be 30-year-old Judinski? You wouldn't want that either, Joe? Joe House?

• 1:07:09Speaker 03

  No, Joe House would not want that.

• 1:07:10Bill Simmons?

  Too young.

• 1:07:12Speaker 03

  What happened? I'm 12 hours behind the cycle. Where's Flores? I know Flores signed an extension with Minnesota, but he has the possibility of, if he gets a head coaching job at one or two places, he can leave.

• 1:07:21Speaker 02

  He interviewed in Pittsburgh. He interviewed in Pittsburgh. He hasn't interviewed in Buffalo yet.

• 1:07:26Speaker 03

  Okay, well, both of those are good, perfectly fine answers. Both of those would be great, great answers to me.

• 1:07:32Bill Simmons?

  You know who could give Pittsburgh some 14 to 12 type of games? Brian Flores.

• 1:07:39Bill Simmons?

  You interested in a 15 to 13 final? Yeah. Don't need a quarterback. I'll just have an awesome defense. That'd be fun. I, uh, I'm excited that Buffalo overreacted, even though I think it was probably the right reaction. The press conference was a disaster. It was the complete opposite of that Ravens press conference. It got people feeling bad for Keon Coleman, who by all accounts was a schmuck this season and had to be benched even though they needed receivers. Like, oh, I feel bad for Keon Coleman. Like, how about just showing up for work every day and being reliable? I don't feel bad for him.

• 1:08:14Bill Simmons?

  But it just feels like a mess. It's so funny. It felt like they had the AFC East on lock for 15 years.

• 1:08:19Speaker 02

  Here's...

• 1:08:19Bill Simmons?

  It just flipped on them.

• 1:08:21Speaker 02

  Two things can be true, right? Like, it's amazing. For the first eight years, that local fan base and that media was pretty harsh on McDermott. Then when he gets fired, but Bean doesn't, suddenly McDermott is this, like, knight in shining armor. Look, could they have fired both of them? Sure. The other eye side of it is, should the GM be allowed to pick his coach one time? Usually in the NFL, the GM will get that opportunity. McDermott's defenses, playoff games, gave up 31 and a half points per game. That's tough when you're a defensive coach.

• 1:08:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's like, what's, what is your number one thing you're bringing to the table? If you're a head coach, if it's like, eh, it's not really offense. It's obviously not really defense either, because over and over again, we saw that team not get stops. And then it's like, well, is your game management awesome? And, and does your team good when it really matters?

• 1:09:11Speaker 02

  13 seconds.

• 1:09:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, over and over again, that's been bad. So I don't know. I felt like, I actually thought what the owner said was the right answer, which is like, we took this as far as we could go. We needed a new voice. I was like, I actually agree with you.

• 1:09:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I think the NBA is a better comparison than the NFL, but like, Mark Jackson took the Warriors to a certain point. Steve Kerr got them over the top. Doug Collins got the Bulls to a certain point. Obviously Phil Jackson over top. Thibodeau got the Knicks to, they hope Mike Brown, like, we see this in the NBA a lot, these teams that fire coaches despite great playoff appearances. The NFL, we don't see it quite as much.

• 1:09:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you kind of know when, especially now in this era where the coaches seem to have a shorter shelf life. I mean, I've been a whisper this, but you could argue, maybe that should have been Andy Reid's last year, last year? Oh, I. Why hasn't that been a topic? Like, who was more disheveled and weird and, and seemingly rudderless than the Chiefs last year? And what, what did they really do to fix it, Shreks?

• 1:10:15Speaker 02

  They brought back Eric Biennium.

• 1:10:17Bill Simmons?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 1:10:20Speaker 02

  Who from 2018 to 2022 was the offensive coordinator when they were humming. And the hope is, if Andy isn't necessarily the, what's the term, the red ass that, that people wanted, you know, at times, Eric Biennium is that guy. And the hope is that his voice coming back sparks something new. But Andy's going to be able to, you know, say when his time is up and he's going to be able to ride off into the sunset.

• 1:10:44Bill Simmons?

  He said it with his coaching job last year. It's pretty right. Like, we watched that happen with Belichick with the, the Pats, when some of the game management stuff started slipping. It's pretty alarming, but they they just didn't seem prepared to me. They weren't fixing issues they had. I don't I don't know if the locker room was that great behind the scenes. No, there was a lot going on there. It didn't seem like a happy team to me.

• 1:11:07Speaker 02

  There were a lot of voices on my network and others that were throwing Belichick's name in for Buffalo and the premise being the roster's built already. They're one win away. Like, can Belichick give you one or two years to get this team over? Could you see it or no?

• 1:11:23Bill Simmons?

  What do you think, House?

• 1:11:25Speaker 03

  Of course, can you see it? Yes, yes, yes, I can see it. I mean, he doesn't, you don't let him anywhere near the player personnel room. You like, don't even say, oh, that room has its own set of keys. We don't know. Nobody has it. Like, you know, as long as it's just come in and coach up that defense and get some, you know, the pressure's on me now.

• 1:11:48Bill Simmons?

  That's really interesting. So that's just like talk show stuff. There's no actual smoke to that.

• 1:11:54Speaker 02

  No, there's none at all. And I know guys at Buffalo, and I would tell you that that

• 1:11:59Speaker 03

  Let's aggregate it. Fuck that.

• 1:12:00Speaker 02

  That name has not come up, but I saw it. We did it on Get Up for like a throwaway segment, and then I saw someone else talking about it. And when you think about it just on paper, like, the roster's built, we got the same guys, we have playoff experience, we just need to get over the hump. Like, can, is there someone who can just win us a game or two more? And I don't know if anyone can win you a game better than Bill Belichick.

• 1:12:23Bill Simmons?

  That's a good Get Up segment. That's like, the coffee hasn't hit in yet, and then somebody's throwing that out like, whoa. It's like having like, throwing a shot of espresso in there. I, so he would, well, it's a moot point, because you said it's not happening. But if he wasn't involved with any sort of picking the players.

• 1:12:46Bill Simmons?

  Well, then the other question would be, he wasn't exactly awesome at hiring coordinators and coaches the last few years.

• 1:12:52Speaker 02

  No. The better question is, as a Patriots fan, would you be more worried about him or would you be more worried about Davis Webb being hired?

• 1:12:59Bill Simmons?

  I'd be more worried about Belichick.

• 1:13:02Speaker 02

  That's telling.

• 1:13:03Bill Simmons?

  I would.

• 1:13:05Bill Simmons?

  House agrees?

• 1:13:06Speaker 03

  Of course, House agrees.

• 1:13:07Bill Simmons?

  See, now I'm gonna get worried this might happen. I mean, as a Pats fan, I hope to hire a third year old coach. That would be the dream. How old was McVeigh?

• 1:13:17Speaker 02

  McVeigh was 30. He's the youngest ever. And then this Udinski is younger than him.

• 1:13:22Bill Simmons?

  McVeigh's a fucking unicorn. So if you're thinking about matching that one again, good luck.

• 1:13:27Speaker 02

  McVeigh was hired after, and House, you remember this season, they lost to the Giants, Washington in Week 17 to a Giants team that already clinched. They lost 19 to 10. McVeigh was the play caller only one year. And I remember talking to him, he's like, I just pissed down my leg. I have no shot at being a head coach. Like, it's never gonna happen now. And he got interviews with San Francisco and the Rams, and he won the Rams job despite being on a team that didn't make the playoffs, being 30. And despite, you know, falling on his face in Week 17, like, that is such a swing. I don't know if the Bills or the Browns are willing to take a swing on Udinski, who's 30, or Davis Webb, who's 30. Like, I love being aggressive, but...

• 1:14:10Bill Simmons?

  Not when you have Josh in the prime of his career. House, what would be, you can't say Hugh Jackson or people like that. What would be the funniest coaching hire for the Bills? Is it Mike McCarthy?

• 1:14:23Bill Simmons?

  Where it's like, it's just, you can talk yourself into it, but...

• 1:14:26Speaker 03

  I kinda could talk myself into Mike McCarthy.

• 1:14:28Bill Simmons?

  But it's kinda funny where you're just going sideways from Sean McDermott to Mike McCarthy?

• 1:14:33Speaker 03

  No, Tony Dungy would be funnier to me. It would be like grabbing somebody off of TV.

• 1:14:37Bill Simmons?

  Jason Garrett would be the funniest.

• 1:14:39Speaker 03

  Jason Garrett would be the funniest. But he got an interview in Tennessee, which was literally amazing.

• 1:14:43Bill Simmons?

  He did not get a second interview.

• 1:14:44Speaker 03

  One of my favorite stories of this. So...

• 1:14:47Bill Simmons?

  And then your guy, your guy, nine kids, Sala, got the Tennessee.

• 1:14:50Speaker 02

  Got the job. Got the job. Nine kids, they're gonna be moving from San Francisco to Nashville, his third place in three years. Pack the kids, let's go.

• 1:14:58Bill Simmons?

  That's great. I mean, perfect place to live. Get a nice house like 20 minutes away from the city. Do you get like a nine bedroom house?

• 1:15:05Speaker 02

  Live in that Brentwood, that Franklin.

• 1:15:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Great job. All right.

• 1:15:09Speaker 03

  I wish, I want somebody in his life to say, you know, the Jets to the Titans isn't like the line, like you just went through chaos and chaos was, and you saw how much it sabotaged you. Cause I actually think that Sala's, Bobby's, I think he's got a, there's a coach in there, a good coach in there somewhere. And what he did with that defense, like, hey, that's San Francisco defense, but going to the Titans with that brain trust.

• 1:15:37Speaker 02

  Well, you have a quarterback, bud. The key is the quarterback. And I think this pod and the three of us last week were very positive on Cam Ward. And I got texts from people being like, whoa, you House and Simmons sure love Cam Ward. I'm like, he showed great flashes and that's why that was an attractive job. There's also a new stadium coming next year and there's a lot of salary cap space and their new GM, Mike Borghans, he's a smart dude, Boston guy, smart guy. That said,

• 1:16:01Speaker 03

  All right.

• 1:16:01Speaker 02

  The offensive coordinator position is what matters because Sala doesn't call the offense. So you hire Sala and now we're two days later. Cliff hasn't committed anywhere yet. He might go to Baltimore or Nashville or maybe Vegas. And then who else are you talking to? You thinking Dayball maybe if he doesn't get the job in Buffalo? Like, but that's going to be the most important hire there because Sala's got nothing to do with, you know, Cam Ward and third and six, what are we calling? You know?

• 1:16:26Bill Simmons?

  I thought it was interesting what happened to the Jets defense after he left, where it became clear the Jets defense was overachieving when he was there and you could see it just do this right after. So Dayball to Buffalo is probably the most, that would be the second most nervous I'd be as a Pats fan. Cause he, he knows, he knows the city. He gets it. He's worked with Allen.

• 1:16:48Speaker 02

  He's from there too.

• 1:16:49Bill Simmons?

  He's been really good. I, I think you could argue that Giants thing, he just had bad luck left and right for years and years and years. And maybe he learned some stuff.

• 1:16:59Speaker 03

  Who's the defensive coordinator though? That's the, I need to know the answer to that before I have an opinion.

• 1:17:05Bill Simmons?

  Luana Rumo, maybe he's bouncing around.

• 1:17:07Speaker 02

  Could be.

• 1:17:08Bill Simmons?

  Last one, Vegas.

• 1:17:09Speaker 03

  That's not terrible.

• 1:17:10Bill Simmons?

  The Vegas one, as you know, I love that job. And Mendoza, I think his stock's even higher than it was two weeks ago. And I think they have talent on the roster. Like, I don't mind the job. So who gets that one?

• 1:17:21Speaker 02

  I was there on Monday night at the college football playoffs and I'm on the sideline before the game, just doing my usual walk around, like a whatever, a nebbish. And I'm watching Brady, Mark Davis, John Spytek, Egon Durbin, the other owner, the four of them, just staring at Mendoza, just watching every.

• 1:17:42Bill Simmons?

  Oh, like, I thought, like, they're at, like, a bar in the morning, checking out a chick?

• 1:17:47Speaker 03

  I thought he was. I thought he was gonna say staring at a boil of danger.

• 1:17:52Bill Simmons?

  Staring at Alex Earl. Just checking, just watching how everything he did.

• 1:17:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, and.

• 1:17:59Bill Simmons?

  That's what I do when I go to basketball games. I love watching the guys in the warmups. I like watching their timeouts. Like, you could learn so much from that stuff.

• 1:18:06Speaker 02

  And, and like, he played amazing and he was awesome. And on fourth down, makes the play. That's everything you'd think Brady would ever want. Just give up your body and just dive and flip and do the helicopter, whatever it is. So I would think he's their quarterback, I would think, not knowing anything. And I think I said this last week, like, Brady's gonna make that decision. And if Brady isn't a fan of Mendoza, that won't be the quarterback. So anything I say, or Danny Kelly says, or Field Yates, or Mel Kiper, Daniel Jeremiah says, means nothing. It's whether Brady thinks he's the guy, but I think Brady was probably impressed by that. The, the coaching position is fascinating, though, because I had been hearing Minter as a popular choice for Vegas.

• 1:18:49Speaker 02

  And then Davis Webb's name keeps coming up there also. So you've got.

• 1:18:53Bill Simmons?

  Not Cliff?

• 1:18:53Speaker 02

  Defensive coach. Yep. Or Cliff hasn't interviewed there. They haven't given Cliff an interview.

• 1:19:02Speaker 02

  So Vegas to me, who's going to be best with Mendoza?

• 1:19:05Speaker 03

  That's it, right? That's the answer to that. If you take Mendoza, then you then you need a coach that is going to help that kid like, you know, become the best version of himself.

• 1:19:14Bill Simmons?

  Do you have to hire? Is there like a time limit to hiring a head coach? Has anybody ever dragged this along until like March? Just been like, yeah, we don't, we still don't know.

• 1:19:24Speaker 02

  Well, the Colts were left at the altar when Josh McDaniels left and they hired. Who did they end up hiring that year instead? I'm going blank.

• 1:19:32Bill Simmons?

  Was it Chuck Pagano?

• 1:19:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:37Bill Simmons?

  Whoever's between Pagano and Shane Steichen.

• 1:19:39Speaker 02

  I'm so embarrassed right now. Frank Reich, that's who it was. Frank Reich. And then last year.

• 1:19:44Bill Simmons?

  House and I made, we made money on Frank's last year. Frank was the go to.

• 1:19:49Speaker 02

  And then last year, Kellen Moore wasn't officially hired until after the Eagles, you know, won the Super Bowl. They can't meet with any coaches in person and they can't interview them in any sort of way. If the team is still alive in the playoffs. So if Shula or Show House or Davis Webb or Vance Joseph or Clint Kubiak, you go down the list of all these guys. I don't think there's anyone in New England who's interviewing for head coaching jobs, but any of those coordinators win another week. Well, that only pushes it back even more. And I don't know if these teams are looking to wait.

• 1:20:24Bill Simmons?

  I was worried about our, our precociously young defensive coordinator who had to step up. Yeah, I was worried. He's like 28. Cause he's, our defense has been really well coached and has gotten better week by week, month by month to like, it's noticeable. It's way different than it was. And I think he has to get credit for that, but.

• 1:20:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, Terrell Williams fell ill early on in the season. And then this guy has been calling the plays, but is maybe the most underappreciated gem of this entire Patriots run. Like he was an inside linebackers coach.

• 1:20:57Bill Simmons?

  Him and Matt Collins, the two unappreciated gems of the 2025 Pat season. All right, we'll do the games.

• 1:21:04Speaker 03

  I just want to say beyond the record, I think Kubiak would be amazing in Vegas.

• 1:21:08Bill Simmons?

  I like that.

• 1:21:08Speaker 03

  Kubiak and Mendoza would be really, because what Kubiak did with taking what every single one of us, at least, I don't, I won't put you in our box, Schrager, forecasting how the Seahawks was gonna do. The bit that we were most concerned about was that offensive line.

• 1:21:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:24Speaker 03

  And somehow that offensive line turned out to be absolutely perfectly. Sam Darnold was back there thriving. Over these last six weeks, they established a run game, a two-headed monster. Kubiak has really just excelled, I think.

• 1:21:38Bill Simmons?

  I agree with that. And I looked at Vance Joseph's Broncos thing, because I remember not feeling great about him as a coach, but not feeling terrible. But then you look back at the, the team that he had. He had no quarterback at all. So I.

• 1:21:52Speaker 02

  It was like Osweiler.

• 1:21:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it was a mess.

• 1:21:55Speaker 02

  Paxton Lynch.

• 1:21:56Bill Simmons?

  I think when you, when you're, these guys that have failed, but they failed specifically because they had no quarterback whatsoever. That's, you know, that was how Atlanta jumped on Stefanski right away, because you could excuse the last couple of years. Now, whether it's valid or not, you find out when he's in the next spot.

• 1:22:13Speaker 02

  One team that's interesting is Arizona. There's very little reporting on it. The team does not announce when they interview coaches, which is so refreshing and fun. You know how these teams like put out the social media posts?

• 1:22:25Bill Simmons?

  I don't get that at all.

• 1:22:26Speaker 02

  I don't either. Let the reporters do the job. Like, go find out who reported. I will say this, Raheem Morris interviewed very well there.

• 1:22:36Bill Simmons?

  He's back.

• 1:22:37Speaker 02

  He could find his way back into the head coaching world.

• 1:22:40Bill Simmons?

  Can you just hire like a game management assistant?

• 1:22:43Speaker 02

  They won their last four games after being eliminated. There's something to be said for that in Atlanta.

• 1:22:48Speaker 03

  I think he would be awesome as a defensive coordinator of the Bills. Dayball and Raheem Morris would be, that's now you're, that would be something.

• 1:22:54Bill Simmons?

  I've made this point multiple times. I thought Atlanta was like. Easily the best under 10 wins team in the league. Like if there was like a play in tournament of all the non playoff teams, I would, I think they would have been favored. And that they were one of the best teams the Pats played.

• 1:23:10Speaker 02

  Oh, they should have won that game. We talked about that missed extra point, but I was there when they beat the Rams. Uh, I was there when they beat the Bucks like they, they win. I was there when they beat the Bills.

• 1:23:20Bill Simmons?

  Weren't they, I mean, weren't they three kicks away from being 11 and six, basically? I thought it was, it was like a missed PAT, the coup field goal and one other one. This episode is brought to you by Sony Pictures Classics. A perfect crime film, says the Daily Beast. John Torturo gives a career best performance. Don't miss the acclaimed new thriller, The Only Living Pickpocket in New York. Torturo stars as an aging master pickpocket. His latest score puts him in the crosshairs of a ruthless crime family. It's also starring Giancarlo Esposito, Tatiana Maslany, Will Price and our guy, Steve Buscemi. See the film that the O A Times calls instantly classic. The only living pickpocket in New York now playing in theaters nationwide.

• 1:24:05Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to by Viori. When it comes to clothes that score high in both comfort and style, Viori is my MVP. Sunday performance joggers. Oh yeah. They have the perfect, I could watch a game and then go out to dinner vibe. And the meta pant, that's my number one, I need to look like I tried option. Get 20% off your first purchase at Viori.com slash Simmons and discover the versatility of Viori clothing. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. All right. Which game do you want to hit first house? You pick Broncos or, uh, or Seahawks Rams?

• 1:24:37Speaker 03

  No, let's, let's do, uh, Seahawks Rams first because the Broncos and Pats is just so, uh, hard to, to, to, to put arms around, I feel like.

• 1:24:47Bill Simmons?

  Seahawks.

• 1:24:48Speaker 03

  There's more straightforward one is just this rubber match.

• 1:24:50Bill Simmons?

  Seahawks minus two and a half. That's the line on FanDuel. Threaten to be three for a while.

• 1:24:58Bill Simmons?

  Um, settled there. Big question is what we're getting from Sam Darnold. So Shreigs is going to tell us right now, how healthy is Sam Darnold? Cause I was worried about him last week. I ended up hedging some bets and felt stupid because he was fine.

• 1:25:10Speaker 02

  He threw a pass across his body in the back of the end zone to Jackson Smith and Jigba that I'll put up against any pass that was thrown this entire NFL season as far as just beautiful precision. I would say his oblique is going to be fine. That's now eight days, nine days removed. I have, we went on the pod, you and I, Bill, House, you weren't with us. It was the one day you were out and I filled in and it was after Seattle Rams part two. And that game was unbelievable. I have gone back and watched the first, the first two times these teams played. If you were to do a prize fight, which we love talking boxing, and you were to say each quarter counts as a round, Chris Shula's

• 1:25:49Speaker 02

  Rams defense was up seven to nothing on Clint Kubiak's Seahawks offense. That included all those interceptions from Darnold, seven interceptions, all that. But then the fourth quarter and overtime of that second game, they started doing play action. They started doing trick plays. There was all sorts of, and Sam Darnold came alive. It's like seven to one in as far as the rounds go, but the rounds that mattered, Seattle at the end there just leave, it's like any issue of like, oh, the Rams defense has dominated Seattle. Like I throw it out the window because they cracked some sort of code there in the fourth quarter and overtime. I think they're going to be okay as far as an offense goes. They showed flashes there in that second game.

• 1:26:34Speaker 03

  So the two questions I have on that note, how impactful do you think the Charbonne loss is? And are we 1,000% confident that Charles Cross is 100% ready to go? No issue whatsoever, not diminished?

• 1:26:49Speaker 02

  Don't know the latter. The former, I will say this because I couldn't tell you the X's and O's of it. I was talking to Orlovsky today, who you see on ESPN all day, every day. He's just an Energizer Bunny. But I was with him today and I said, tell me like Charbonne says, the thing that no one will know is, or that no one talks about too often. He's like, I watch all the tape. Kenneth Walker is not a great pass blocker. And that's why Charbonne is in as much as he is. And in fantasy football, you want to bang your head in into the wall. If you're a Kenneth Walker owner, you're like, why is he ever out? So that might be what they're missing more than just the interior runs.

• 1:27:23Bill Simmons?

  I thought Charbonne from an actual running standpoint was pretty grim. And he was, I think, a very frustrating Seahawk for the fans. But the, the pass protection stuff is worrisome. Gambling manifesto.

• 1:27:36Bill Simmons?

  Beware of the looked a little too good, the previous round team is just pulsating Seahawks. Like you can't have a better game than that. And it was actually a little too good of a game. There's some gambling stats about like, if you blow somebody out like that in a playoff round, what happens the next round?

• 1:27:53Bill Simmons?

  The beware of all dome or warm weather teams playing outdoors and cold weather. I don't think it's gonna be cold, right? It'll be okay, decent. It's not gonna be like in the

• 1:28:01Speaker 03

  It's not gonna be Chicago.

• 1:28:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Agent Q being cold weather, we don't have to worry about that.

• 1:28:08Bill Simmons?

  The only other one that really stood out to me, because even the coaches one is out. We have four really good coaches. Rule number 13, don't dismiss the nerd evidence if the nerd evidence is absolutely overwhelming. I just feel like the Rams special teams has to come back and haunt them in one of these games. This is their third road game, third road game in a row. And a road game where you end up in the worst spot in the league for a road game, Seattle. It's the furthest, you know, anywhere. So you're flying, where'd they go? Carolina, they're in the southeast, come back. Then they go to Chicago, come back. Now they're going to the Pacific Northwest, which from LA is in six hours. But I don't, the three road games in a row really worries me.

• 1:28:52Bill Simmons?

  And then the bigger thing, Shreigs, I just didn't think the Rams looked that good the last couple of games. It was almost like that, that Ram, especially that Rams game, the Rams Seahawks, week 16, as they lost steam in that game, they never got the steam back. Thought Carolina could have beaten them. They weren't better, but they could have. And I just thought the Bears were better and should have won the game. Though I went back and I watched the fourth quarter in the OT, the Bears had it. They're midfield, they fucking had the ball, they had momentum, they had everything.

• 1:29:23Speaker 02

  How about, how about McVay not, not letting Stafford throw the ball in overtime, first drive, three runs in a row?

• 1:29:30Bill Simmons?

  It's weird.

• 1:29:31Speaker 02

  Two minutes, two minutes, eight seconds left, and they decide to run the ball and then call a timeout before the two minute warning.

• 1:29:39Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:29:41Speaker 02

  Sean, Sean openly, I talked to him afterwards, he openly was like mortified with the way he called that game. And he's like, the players bailed me out, like Meeves bailed me out. And Cam Curl, former Washington commander, bailed me out.

• 1:29:55Speaker 03

  Incredible. Don't think that was lost on me.

• 1:29:56Speaker 02

  Emmanuel Forbes.

• 1:29:58Bill Simmons?

  How so? We're sure the Rams defense is that good?

• 1:30:01Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:30:02Bill Simmons?

  Cause the advanced metrics like a lot more than my eye test is like that dating back to that week 16 game. It feels like teams are now just going up and down the field on them. Fucking Bryce Young was doing it. So we have all these, we have the advanced stats and it's like a four month sample size. I feel like they're a team that's running out of steam a little bit.

• 1:30:21Speaker 02

  When you need it most on a third down, McVeigh calls timeout, he talks to Stafford, they see the hot route.

• 1:30:27Bill Simmons?

  No, I'm talking about defense, not offense.

• 1:30:29Speaker 02

  I know. I'm saying when you need it most though, their defense came up with the interception.

• 1:30:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:34Speaker 02

  And then their offense.

• 1:30:36Bill Simmons?

  Terrible miscommunication play and a play that I'm not sure why you're trying to get to the 20 yard line. When you need to get to the 38.

• 1:30:44Speaker 02

  And they weren't being stopped on and Cam, Caleb Williams uses legs, got two first downs.

• 1:30:48Bill Simmons?

  Legs, throw it to the tight end for five yards. Do a design scramble. I, if I was a Bears fan, that game is the, as the weeks pass. House, let me throw this at you.

• 1:31:00Bill Simmons?

  The Rams, who have been an awesome offense, they a little slow to you?

• 1:31:08Bill Simmons?

  Like a great defense like the Seahawks. And I, I think that at home, I think we can give them the great tag. Not like 2000 Ravens great, but really, really up there. And I don't think they really have any.

• 1:31:18Speaker 03

  The way they defend the run gets great.

• 1:31:19Bill Simmons?

  They don't have any weaknesses. And the Rams, the way they do it, it's methodical. You go down the field and you know, and then hope or hope Puka can break a play. They don't really, they're not getting the long plays like they used to. And I don't really know who their speed guy is.

• 1:31:33Speaker 02

  Well, it's too, too at will and he didn't dress last game.

• 1:31:35Bill Simmons?

  Right. And then Puka, like you look at the game, he was like five for 50 last week. Their biggest play that anyone made was, was Parkinson on a little tight end route. And I just wonder are the Seahawks going to move everybody up and basically dare the Rams to go over the top and attack and hit Puka and just kind of keep everybody in front of them and just make it a game where it's going to have to be 12 play drives to go down the field on them.

• 1:32:00Speaker 03

  So I, I thought where you were going with this when you started, uh, and I actually uh, quite like it as I'm thinking about it is, are we waiting on the Rams to go up tempo? Like this, this methodical bit that you're talking about.

• 1:32:13Bill Simmons?

  You can do that in Seattle.

• 1:32:15Speaker 02

  But they did it in overtime. That's what they did in overtime.

• 1:32:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:18Speaker 02

  And it worked.

• 1:32:19Bill Simmons?

  Tough for three hours. Tough for that crowd.

• 1:32:21Speaker 03

  Tough in that cold.

• 1:32:22Bill Simmons?

  Let me throw another thing to you. Stafford does look 100% healthy to me at this point, and I think had had a couple of really hard games there. Adams, we know isn't 100% and Puka has taken more hits this year than anyone else in the league. And now has to go against the Seattle defense. And Forbes went down with the hamstring. He'll play, but that's, that's real. I think that there's a lot of miles that have added up on this Rams team that makes me really nervous about them on the road. I think the line should be three. What do you think the line should be, House?

• 1:32:50Speaker 03

  Let's, yeah, I'm listening, I'm listening.

• 1:32:52Bill Simmons?

  Go ahead.

• 1:32:52Speaker 02

  I'll give you another little Schrager side note, fact anecdote type deal.

• 1:32:58Bill Simmons?

  Schrager's side notes.

• 1:32:59Speaker 02

  That's good. That's it. Not notes.

• 1:33:01Bill Simmons?

  Not for Pete's sake.

• 1:33:02Speaker 02

  Not for Pete's sake, not this one. Very difficult conversations they had internally after the season. And they were like, it's time to move on from Cooper Cup, who is a beloved Ram, triple crown winner, Super Bowl MVP. And they basically told Cooper, like, we're not going to pay you what you were making and you're free to go explore. He was a free agent for quite a bit, couple of days, sorts of, there were no real takers. The Seahawks paid him a lot of money and they're like, well, we got a spot for you. Meanwhile, the Rams used all that money and paid Devante Adams. It looked great for the Rams all season long. Cooper Cup's a competitor. Keep that in mind.

• 1:33:44Speaker 02

  Ernest Jones, Super Bowl hero from the Rams. They said, this isn't working here. They moved on from him. He had a nice little couple of years, whatever in Tennessee. Then he's become like the Seahawks best linebacker and he is a vocal player and he is a super spirited guy. I love revenge stuff. I love all that.

• 1:34:04Bill Simmons?

  You know, I do.

• 1:34:05Speaker 02

  Cooper Cup, Ernest Jones, just put those two out there.

• 1:34:09Speaker 03

  Ernest Jones cost me so much money because when the Rams moved away from him, I was like, oh, so the Rams are tanking, the Rams are getting ready for whoever the next quarterback is going to be. I can't remember what the quarterback class was. They rope a dope the shit out of it. I, I lost, because that defense was, was a no name defense. They had two incredible draft picks, then they immediately fortified the front again.

• 1:34:32Speaker 02

  Kobe Turner and Byron Young, yep.

• 1:34:34Speaker 03

  Yeah. And, and, and verse has been incredible, like. God, oh, it's okay. I mean, the money's gone. I lost it fair and square, but that's part of why I have to give McVeigh credit. They retooled. They did not rebuild in any way, shape or form. They pulled a defense together like that.

• 1:34:52Speaker 02

  I think, you know, the, the, the argument for the Rams is that they're not going to be scared of going to Seattle. They've won there for years.

• 1:34:59Bill Simmons?

  Third game is always scary.

• 1:35:01Speaker 02

  There. And it's just, he's a, he's a fucking unbelievable coach. And, and he, he's had a bad game last week and they survived. He's not going to have a bad game two weeks in a row.

• 1:35:12Bill Simmons?

  Case for Seattle, other than what we've already talked about. They've only lost one since week five. They've won eight straight.

• 1:35:20Bill Simmons?

  In the last few weeks, they beat the Rams and they beat the Niners twice. Now, the Rams game was goofy, obviously. The revenge stuff you mentioned, they seem pretty healthy, other than the Charbonnet thing. They're home. Rams special teams scares the living shit out of me. And I just did not like what I saw from the Rams the last two weeks. I don't know how you can feel good about it. And I think playing three road games in a row in the playoffs is fucking meaningful. I don't, I don't think you can skip over that. Like you.

• 1:35:51Speaker 03

  Well, they're the first team in the Super Bowl era to not cover the spread in the first two games. They have arrived at the conference championship without covering in, in either of the two previous weeks.

• 1:36:03Bill Simmons?

  It's really, really hard and.

• 1:36:05Speaker 03

  One of one.

• 1:36:06Bill Simmons?

  And.

• 1:36:07Speaker 03

  And they also are, are have a rest disadvantage. And then there's a, there's a nice, uh, action network, teams with the rest advantage, 21 and seven straight up at home. Seattle at home with that, with the extra day.

• 1:36:20Speaker 02

  Have you guys been to a game up there in Seattle before?

• 1:36:23Bill Simmons?

  I have.

• 1:36:23Speaker 03

  I, I, I'm dying to go.

• 1:36:25Speaker 02

  It's so cool. And I did Monday Night Football this year against the Texans, but I've been, I was at the playoff game where they played the, you know, the Michael Crabtree, Aaron Andrews game, that one, I was at the Sherman game. When it gets. Like, like last week when Shaheed returns to kick.

• 1:36:39Bill Simmons?

  Camera tremble, yeah.

• 1:36:41Speaker 02

  Yes, and it's like an avalanche. It's like you just, you can't stop it. It's just too much, the momentum. They don't lose many playoff games at home. The one that I remember was against the Rams, but it was during COVID. And it was a weird year and it was Jared Goff with nine fingers beats Russell Wilson off and Goff came off the bench. But like, I, they don't lose many games at home. And when that crowd gets going, especially in a night game, like it's, it's very hard to win there.

• 1:37:05Bill Simmons?

  Well, one other thing I like about this, it, it feels like every week they've gotten a little bit better using Shaheed. And kind of figuring out what kind of weapon that is, but him on special teams, I think should be terrifying for the Rams with how bad they've been. But then they can just get him involved a couple of times in different ways. And I, I think, I think they can throw on him. Now there's a chance Darnold could just shit the bed again. Can't be ruled out, but.

• 1:37:32Speaker 02

  He's thrown seven interceptions in two games against this team.

• 1:37:36Bill Simmons?

  Not great.

• 1:37:37Speaker 03

  Mike McDonald's first conference championship game as a head coach.

• 1:37:42Bill Simmons?

  I like the look of the.

• 1:37:43Speaker 02

  Second, oh, he was a coordinator for Baltimore and they lost to the Chiefs. Yeah.

• 1:37:47Bill Simmons?

  Coordinator. I like the two and a half too. And that's where I'm leaning unless you want to try to talk me out of it.

• 1:37:53Speaker 03

  No, it's so, it's super fair. One and a half, you know, whatever it was, three weeks ago, two and a half now. And, you know, I think the extra point, half of that extra point for the incredible home field advantage in the playoffs. And extra half a point for how good that defense looked last week.

• 1:38:10Bill Simmons?

  Shaheed, Shaheed to score a touchdown in the first half, 18 to one.

• 1:38:15Speaker 02

  Oh, see, I like Cup. I think they're gonna get him going.

• 1:38:18Bill Simmons?

  The first touchdown, 18 to one.

• 1:38:19Speaker 02

  First touchdown? I think Cup's an anytime scorer.

• 1:38:22Bill Simmons?

  Cup anytime score, two, plus two.

• 1:38:24Speaker 02

  Get him, they want to get him in there, trust me.

• 1:38:27Speaker 03

  I gotta make a note of this, hold on.

• 1:38:28Bill Simmons?

  I like, uh, I like the, um,

• 1:38:33Bill Simmons?

  I like the Seahawks minus two and a half and I like Stafford interception.

• 1:38:38Bill Simmons?

  Minus 114, that Stafford will throw one pick. I would like to, so for Ringer 107, we have, we had to pick both games straight up. And you can parlay them or go straight up and then props or unders for the other two. And I would like to suggest as a possible prop house, Stafford interception minus 114.

• 1:38:57Speaker 02

  Did you?

• 1:38:57Bill Simmons?

  I don't have, go ahead Pete.

• 1:38:58Speaker 02

  Did you see the whole thing with the Pope and the Seahawks? Have you seen that?

• 1:39:03Bill Simmons?

  What's that one?

• 1:39:04Speaker 02

  Oh, this is up your alley. In 2005.

• 1:39:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:11Speaker 02

  We got a new Pope and the Seahawks went to the Super Bowl.

• 1:39:14Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:39:14Speaker 02

  In 2013, we got a new Pope and the Seahawks went to the Super Bowl. In 2025, we got a new Pope to the Seahawks.

• 1:39:26Bill Simmons?

  It sounds like I have to add this to the gambling manifesto if it happens. Don't bet against the Seahawks in the year of a new Pope.

• 1:39:34Speaker 03

  It's a great one.

• 1:39:35Speaker 02

  Make this a social clip, will ya?

• 1:39:37Bill Simmons?

  Well, I was thinking the flip side of this. Patriots 2001, Brady's first Super Bowl, they upset the Rams. It all comes full circle in 2018, Brady's last Super Bowl, they beat the Rams. Now we're starting the Drake May era. Could it be Drake May trying to beat the Rams for his first Super Bowl? And we're basically just bookending. I like your Pope thing more though.

• 1:40:07Bill Simmons?

  All right. So it sounds like Shriggs kinda understands why we're going Seahawks minus two and a half, but doesn't really wanna say, I don't think.

• 1:40:15Speaker 02

  I'm not saying a pick, I'm just, I laid out some things and I'm not disagreeing.

• 1:40:21Speaker 03

  Doesn't, you know, you could make arguments to the contrary.

• 1:40:26Bill Simmons?

  Patriots Broncos.

• 1:40:32Speaker 02

  By the way, did you, you read Klosterman's book, right?

• 1:40:34Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 1:40:35Speaker 02

  Do you have any knowledge of that bloody Sunday that he wrote about? The, the Super Bowl 10 Cowboys versus Steelers? And the, the line started off at two and a half, but nobody was betting it, then it kept on going up.

• 1:40:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that was the Jackie Smith game. That's the most famous.

• 1:40:51Speaker 02

  Did you know that story?

• 1:40:52Bill Simmons?

  Oh yeah, that's the most famous gambling story. They moved the line around and basically the books lost on every version of every bet.

• 1:40:58Speaker 03

  Gets smoked with a middle, right?

• 1:40:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. That was like the first famous gambling story I think I ever knew.

• 1:41:04Speaker 02

  I had never heard that. And basically, if you haven't heard of it, Chuck writes about it. I just, I ripped through that book in like three days.

• 1:41:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:10Speaker 02

  It was two and a half. No one was betting on the underdog, which was the Cowboys.

• 1:41:15Bill Simmons?

  I thought it was three and a half.

• 1:41:16Speaker 02

  Was it three and a half?

• 1:41:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. It moved between three and a half and four and a half. It bounced back and forth. And every time the line moved, it ended up winning.

• 1:41:24Speaker 02

  And then it ends up being a four-point game and all the betters who came in early and all the betters who came in late, all won.

• 1:41:30Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:41:31Speaker 02

  And I'm like, this is incredible.

• 1:41:32Bill Simmons?

  And then, and then the push is, which is the worst case scenario for the books. Not great either.

• 1:41:40Bill Simmons?

  How, start us off with Broncos, Pat's.

• 1:41:43Speaker 03

  Well, the starting point is whether, you know, what your perspective is on the amount of, of line movement. Because where is it sitting right now?

• 1:41:56Bill Simmons?

  It's four and a half.

• 1:41:57Speaker 03

  It's four and a half.

• 1:41:58Bill Simmons?

  Between five and a half and four and a half. I personally think it should be three and a half, but fine.

• 1:42:04Speaker 03

  So that, that's the, you know, you have to first get yourself comfortable with the math problem, which is, in the absence, if Knicks was playing, I think Denver would be favored by one and a half. Do you agree with that or no?

• 1:42:19Bill Simmons?

  I, yeah.

• 1:42:21Speaker 03

  Denver at home. That's all we're saying.

• 1:42:22Bill Simmons?

  This is the problem with this line. And I said this Sunday night. I don't think going from Knicks to Stidham should be worth six points. I thought it was gonna be worth three.

• 1:42:31Speaker 03

  That's.

• 1:42:31Bill Simmons?

  I was way off. I picked Pat's by one and a half and the line opened at five and a half. Because I think there's ways for them to win the game without having to rely on Stidham too much. I did, I just thought it was an overreaction. If it was Josh Allen, I get it. But not Bo Nix.

• 1:42:48Speaker 02

  You cleared that trace.

• 1:42:50Bill Simmons?

  I get it. I get it.

• 1:42:51Speaker 03

  And, and game plan wise.

• 1:42:53Bill Simmons?

  Points better.

• 1:42:54Speaker 03

  Here, here's the thing. The way that the Broncos decided to scheme offense last week against the Bills, they threw the ball 51 times. The, the strength of the Buffalo's Bills defense was supposed to be defending the pass. Now, the way that, that Denver played all season long, one of the, I think they were either second lowest or lowest air yards, right? They, they don't, they don't go down the field. Everything is around the line of scrimmage in terms of how the, the ball comes out. That's something where they have such an implicit trust in, in Knicks, this is that this, they're gonna have success with that. And so if you wanna say. Can they replicate that with Stidham? Is that, are they going to be comfortable doing that with Stidham? Is that, can they, can they run that?

• 1:43:35Bill Simmons?

  You love that the other variable because the Pats run defense, people are finally starting to realize is really, really good. And they're gonna have to throw the ball on us to beat us.

• 1:43:44Speaker 03

  Denver can't run the ball. I, I tried that last week.

• 1:43:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's like there's some McLaughlin in there. Dobbins might come back.

• 1:43:51Speaker 03

  Yeah. Just take my money and set it on fire. Broncos are not going to try and step. The J K Dobbins thing, what's the current state of affairs? Do we think that he's gonna play?

• 1:44:02Bill Simmons?

  By the way, is he gonna really make, he's gonna come back out of nowhere? And his foot's gonna, I don't know. I'd be surprised.

• 1:44:07Speaker 02

  The practice window is open. We'll see, you know, it's got two days.

• 1:44:11Speaker 03

  That might, that could change.

• 1:44:12Bill Simmons?

  Shakes, let me read you.

• 1:44:14Speaker 03

  They did establish the run with him.

• 1:44:15Bill Simmons?

  Let me give you some history with this Jared Stidham situation. Not sure if it was covered on Get Up. Might've been. But Green, he might've been on this. Past 50 years, playoff home dogs of four plus points are nine and O against the spread.

• 1:44:31Speaker 03

  It's true.

• 1:44:33Bill Simmons?

  No QB has ever made his first start of the year in round three. It's never happened.

• 1:44:38Speaker 02

  Staubach did it in 72, but it was the second round.

• 1:44:42Bill Simmons?

  Round three. It's never happened.

• 1:44:45Speaker 02

  It was the NFC championship game, but yes, there was only two rounds. Go on, sorry.

• 1:44:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, true.

• 1:44:51Bill Simmons?

  He's the seventh QB since 1950 to make his first start of the season in the playoffs. And I'm going to talk about the other six. One of them was near and dear to House's heart. Taylor Heinecke in 2020 with the Washington commanders.

• 1:45:06Speaker 03

  Covered.

• 1:45:07Bill Simmons?

  Covered. They lost Tampa's favored by 10, they went by eight. Heinecke throws 306 with a, with touchdown.

• 1:45:13Speaker 02

  Played well.

• 1:45:14Speaker 03

  Did.

• 1:45:14Bill Simmons?

  Next one was.

• 1:45:15Speaker 02

  Ron Rivera.

• 1:45:16Bill Simmons?

  Connor Cook for the Raiders. I don't even remember this game.

• 1:45:19Speaker 02

  I'll tell you, that was against the Texans. Here's what happened. It was Derek Carr got hurt late and then Matt McLaughlin was supposed to play and he got hurt in week 18. And then they had to start Connor Cook.

• 1:45:29Bill Simmons?

  Well, they lost by 13 and he threw one touchdown and three picks. I do remember this next game. Joe Webb, the 2012 Vikings, Packers favored by 10.

• 1:45:40Speaker 02

  Saturday afternoon game, Christian Ponder's wrist, I believe, was what the issue was the morning of.

• 1:45:45Bill Simmons?

  Joe Webb threw 30 passes. How many did he complete, House?

• 1:45:50Speaker 03

  Oh, I remember this.

• 1:45:52Bill Simmons?

  We've won money on this.

• 1:45:54Speaker 03

  Less than 12.

• 1:45:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I was 11.

• 1:45:57Speaker 02

  It was a Saturday day game and then the night game was that crazy Arizona Green Bay game when Rogers hit two Hail Marys.

• 1:46:03Bill Simmons?

  Oh, right, right. 1992, the only win out of all these first time starting all your playoff guys.

• 1:46:10Speaker 02

  Can I guess it? Frank Reich?

• 1:46:13Bill Simmons?

  Frank Reich.

• 1:46:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:14Speaker 03

  Great call.

• 1:46:15Bill Simmons?

  So here's how it's a little different and this has happened a couple of times. Frank Reich, there was a, he played a bunch the week before. He at least got a, got his feet wet and then, cause I think Kelly got hurt. Buffalo was favored by two at home over the Oilers. They fell down 35 to three. Stage the biggest comeback in the history of football. Just an amazing moment. I definitely gambled on the game, but I don't remember who I had. But I was definitely gambling at that point and had one of the two sides. Maybe I must have had the Oilers because I think I have blacked out. So that's the only win. This one is a great one. 1983. The Detroit Lions are playing Montana and the Niners in San Francisco. Niners are-

• 1:46:55Speaker 02

  They win this game, right?

• 1:46:57Bill Simmons?

  They do not win this game. They do cover because the Niners were seven and a half. They lose by a point. Gary Danielson, 23, 24, they lose.

• 1:47:06Speaker 02

  And they lost on like a missed field goal or extra point that was like a chippy.

• 1:47:11Bill Simmons?

  Well, that's one of the reasons they lost. They also lost because Gary Danielson threw five interceptions.

• 1:47:16Speaker 02

  That hurts.

• 1:47:19Speaker 03

  The full delo?

• 1:47:20Bill Simmons?

  He did a full delo on us. I don't know if any of them were a pick six.

• 1:47:23Speaker 03

  Before delo.

• 1:47:24Bill Simmons?

  And then the last one was Staubach with they, Dallas got killed in Washington. So 1972. So six quarterbacks, they go one and five straight up, three and three against the spread. The only thing that's different is that Buffalo was the only one that was home and that was Frank Reich who won.

• 1:47:43Bill Simmons?

  So I don't know what we learned, House.

• 1:47:46Speaker 02

  I'll give you, I mean, just, he hasn't thrown a pass in a game in over 730 days. That's a lot.

• 1:47:57Bill Simmons?

  And, all right, so we had him in New England.

• 1:48:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I could empty the bag on what Payton's told me if you wanted me to give you the rallying cry behind it.

• 1:48:05Bill Simmons?

  Well, here's the thing, he, when Brady left, he was supposed to be the starter the next year and he got hurt and he hurt his back and he missed the whole year. They ended up doing the Cam Newton thing and, you know, Brian Hoyer and, but it was supposed to be Stidham's job and they like Stidham. The McDaniel's went to Denver and was like, I need Stidham.

• 1:48:23Speaker 02

  Vegas.

• 1:48:24Bill Simmons?

  I mean, Vegas and.

• 1:48:25Speaker 02

  Took him with them.

• 1:48:26Bill Simmons?

  It was like, I'm taking Stidham, that's my guy. And then Peyton was like, I like him, brought him to Denver. So he's been a pretty fairly paid backup. I think he's one of the highest paid backups in the league and I think coaches have liked him and think, think he's at least competent.

• 1:48:44Speaker 02

  Coaches and players. So his nickname is Stiddy.

• 1:48:47Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 1:48:47Speaker 02

  He's got a ton of like charisma and swag and Jason McCordy was on those Patriots teams and was telling me like, oh, Stiddy thinks he's, you know, he's the number one quarterback in the NFL and he acts that way and he almost loved it because he's on the scout team that whole season and he's talking shit to all the defensive players. He was beloved in New England. The very first day of whatever it was.

• 1:49:09Bill Simmons?

  And by the way, they let him go because I think they got Mac Jones. I think that was one of the reasons they, they were like, okay, good luck, Stiddy.

• 1:49:15Speaker 02

  So McDaniel's brings him with him. Obviously, they benched Derek Carr. It's great controversy. Derek Carr's, you know, his brother talks on NFL Network, how, you know, how this all everything. And then Stidham comes in against the number one defense in the entire league, the 49ers, and Stidham throws for 350 yards and lights up the Niners as a Raider. Free agency comes, Sean Payton's first year with Denver, has a big board in his office and he's listing out his priorities. Now, he's already got Russell Wilson, who they're on the hook for, for about a billion dollars. And the first name on the list is Jared Stidham.

• 1:49:49Speaker 02

  And they paid him as high a salary as any backup quarterback in the league. And they brought him in and then you'd say, okay, well, Russell didn't work out. Why would they draft Nix? Well, they fell in love with Nix. They took Nix. He's been there all along on Peyton's hip, on Davis Webb's hip, on Joe Lombardi's hip. And like, when I tell you, talking to Peyton in the summer, like, telling me stories about Stiddy. Like, they love, they love Stidham, so.

• 1:50:14Bill Simmons?

  Well, did you buy anything when he came out and did the press conference immediately?

• 1:50:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's a master.

• 1:50:19Bill Simmons?

  Like, what was that? Cause I saw on one of the shows, they were like, he wanted the Patriots to know he was fine with going to war with Jared Stidham the next week.

• 1:50:28Speaker 02

  Yes, it's also for the Broncos to know that. So instead of Schefter coming out with a tweet during the second half of the Seahawks game, Peyton gets in the news, runs to the podium. There's never, ever been a second coach's press conference. They assemble the media and he's like, yep, Nix is hurt. We got Stidham. We feel great with Stidham. Stid is good. You know, look, I'm going to give you a quick Sean Payton history lesson here. You know that he won a Super Bowl and you know that he got suspended for a league, for a year from the league. That's the two big things in his career that everyone knows him for. Gut wrenching, horrible, all time playoff losses. You're talking about Minneapolis miracle.

• 1:51:09Speaker 02

  You're talking about Alex Smith to Vernon Davis and candlestick at the last second to be true breeze. You're talking about the Nicole Roby Coleman play, where they didn't call the pass interference. They were home and lost an NFC championship game. You're talking about that wild game against the Buccaneers in the playoffs where they were the home, you know, favored team and Tom Brady lights up the Buccaneers, lights up the Saints and wins the division round. And then the beast quake where they're 11 and 5 and they got to go to Seattle. So like, they've had horrendous, Sean Payton has had horrendous playoff losses. And it's almost like.

• 1:51:44Bill Simmons?

  Well, I mean, the worst one ever was that Rams one. That's, that's probably the worst call of the quarter century, right? How, is that the number one worst call?

• 1:51:52Speaker 02

  Non-call.

• 1:51:53Speaker 03

  It was such a bad non-call that they brought in a brand-new rule that they never used one time.

• 1:51:59Speaker 02

  I still don't understand how they messed that up.

• 1:52:03Bill Simmons?

  It was one of the most blatant pass interferences, probably the most blatant pass interference that wasn't called that I can remember.

• 1:52:10Speaker 02

  Now, the Rams fan will tell you this, because I've often said that, and the Rams fans' retort is, the Saints were up 13-0 at home and lost that playoff game. They also got the ball in overtime.

• 1:52:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:23Speaker 02

  And Drew Brees threw a terrible pick.

• 1:52:24Bill Simmons?

  I remember making that point in the podcast. They did get the ball in overtime. It was still a bad call.

• 1:52:29Speaker 02

  So, anyway, Peyton's had all these horrible losses. It's like, he's always got, like, some crazy way to lose. Is this the year with Stidham that they get over the hump and he gets back to the Super Bowl? Crazy stat, no, seven coaches have coached in two different Super Bowls with two different teams. No coach has ever won a Super Bowl with two different teams. Peyton would be the first.

• 1:52:50Bill Simmons?

  House, give us your Jared Stidham thoughts. Because I'll just tell you right now, he violates at least three rules in the manifesto. How can I have any Jared Stidham thoughts? I'm trying to cover this. Like, please, don't talk yourself into Jared Stidham as a manifesto staple.

• 1:53:06Speaker 03

  It's a scheme, uh, concept. You just have to believe in what the Broncos are doing scheme-wise. They do have one of the, what, top three offensive lines in all of football? That will be a difference for the Patriots. The Patriots had the luxury of playing at home against two of the worst offensive lines, and now they're going up against, by many measures, a top-three offensive line. You know that he's going to be comfortable at home. You know that he's going to be comfortable with the rhythm that they want to play at. It's just execution. I have no effing idea.

• 1:53:38Bill Simmons?

  Well, and then...

• 1:53:39Speaker 03

  How can you handicap that?

• 1:53:41Bill Simmons?

  You figure there's some kitchen sink stuff in this game with the Broncos, right?

• 1:53:47Speaker 02

  Every trick you can imagine.

• 1:53:49Bill Simmons?

  They're going to be pulling all the stops. Yeah, whatever.

• 1:53:54Bill Simmons?

  And pro-Stidham stuff, other than that, we know Peyton likes him. There's a really gruesome Patriots and Denver playoff history.

• 1:54:02Speaker 02

  So, have you guys ever won one or not?

• 1:54:03Bill Simmons?

  Not in the playoffs, 0-4 and bad losses. Rulon Jones is a legendary loss. Denver altitude, not great.

• 1:54:12Bill Simmons?

  Denver is not going to be able to run the ball and I think Denver's going to know that and sit him. It's not going to be like, hey, sometimes you're, I think they're just like, dude, you're going to have to chuck it in this game or we're not going to win, which I think might be good or might be terrible. If you're going anti, if he starts out slow and a couple of bad things happen, the crowd's going to die.

• 1:54:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. And the team morale is going to go.

• 1:54:33Bill Simmons?

  It'll just, we've seen this where it's just like, it gets dark. And then I think McDaniels really knows him.

• 1:54:40Speaker 02

  He does.

• 1:54:41Bill Simmons?

  So he's gonna.

• 1:54:41Speaker 02

  Inside and out. I would say Sean Payton's his biggest supporter. Josh McDaniels might be his second biggest supporter in the world. I mean, so much so that they had him as the guy and put that in New England until the injury and he, he brought him to Vegas with him.

• 1:54:54Bill Simmons?

  So he knows everything he can do and not do.

• 1:54:56Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 1:54:57Bill Simmons?

  Pro Pat stuff beyond the run D. Matt Collins coming back is huge. I'm just telling you. Like he really is going to help them run the ball and he's kind of Drake's twice a game guy and like a third and eight. I feel like May is due for a good start to finish game. Maybe it's just, maybe he's just too young in his career, but he has this habit of just starting slow for an hour and then it kicks in. But Denver's defense, not as good as Houston or the Chargers, I don't think. And I think Denver's defense has had some games where they've looked pretty shaky. And then the Sean Payton thing, talking about they're going to have plenty of rest. The fans got to be loud. They're going to be plenty of rest in

• 1:55:36Bill Simmons?

  two weeks. Vrabel's going to fucking jump all over that all weekend. You can't do that with Vrabel. He's going to bring that up all the time. So those would be my big ones. House, any other, if you're going pro Pats, anything else you're looking at?

• 1:55:53Speaker 03

  Uh, no, I was thinking more, I wanted to hear whether there's any indication that Stidham can run because Nix ran 12 times last week and that was only for about 30 yards or so. But that, the ability of the quarterback.

• 1:56:06Bill Simmons?

  Scares you enough at least to.

• 1:56:07Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. Kate, Kate, does he have that? Do we think?

• 1:56:10Speaker 02

  He's got it, but it's not, it's not like we've seen it. I mean, he's got that in his game. Apparently he can move. I asked the same thing and yeah, he's got some mobility, but he's not Bo. Bo Nix can run.

• 1:56:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. Well, he definitely can.

• 1:56:22Bill Simmons?

  I don't, I don't like this line at all.

• 1:56:25Speaker 02

  Wait, Bill, a couple of thoughts on the Patriots for you and I want to hear your thoughts. First thing.

• 1:56:32Bill Simmons?

  Drake May, six fumbles in two playoff games?

• 1:56:34Speaker 02

  Not great.

• 1:56:36Bill Simmons?

  To-

• 1:56:36Speaker 02

  Will Campbell, he might start in a Super Bowl at left tackle. I'm not sure this guy is your franchise left tackle. He might be an amazing left guard. I don't, I understand Khalil Mack and Will Anderson are unbelievable. But like, every time May went back last week, it was, hold your breath. This Nick Bonito can, can run and can rush the quarterback. So that's something I would watch out for.

• 1:56:57Bill Simmons?

  Triggs? I'm aware.

• 1:57:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:01Bill Simmons?

  I'll tell, I'm gonna float this at you. Are we sure Will Campbell's healthy?

• 1:57:06Speaker 02

  Fair. He missed what, three or four weeks at the end of the season?

• 1:57:10Bill Simmons?

  He doesn't look like he has the same kind of side to side movement that he used to have. A little worried about that.

• 1:57:17Speaker 02

  Then I have a flip side kind of thing for you.

• 1:57:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:20Speaker 02

  I, I've seen this a lot.

• 1:57:23Speaker 02

  A lot of hate on this Patriots run and that like, we should discredit it based on the quarterbacks that, or the teams that they've played and the easy schedule and all that. As someone who follows the NFL, I am here to tell you, and I am not a Patriots fan by any means. It is the most ludicrous thing to say that a team that's on the eve of a Super Bowl has had it an easy path. I think it's absurd. That defense that they faced last week in Houston, against Houston, is one of the best defenses the NFL has seen in years. And the Chargers defense, whether or not they play that way consistently all season, was phenomenal against the Patriots that week. Denver's good too, but like, if I'm a Patriots fan, do not apologize for anything. This has been an amazing run.

• 1:58:04Bill Simmons?

  I made that point on Sunday. The Chiefs had that first Super Bowl Mahomes one, where they played like their freaking Texans and then Tannehill and the Titans and like Jimmy Garoppolo in the Super Bowl. No, nobody was like, oh, who'd they play?

• 1:58:19Bill Simmons?

  I, uh, there's some stat going around on one of my Pat's text threads about the DVOA of the defenses the Patriots have played this year is seventh and the Rams defenses is ninth. So why don't they mention that?

• 1:58:35Bill Simmons?

  I, uh, I think the line's too high, House.

• 1:58:39Bill Simmons?

  But I still think the Patriots are gonna win.

• 1:58:41Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:58:41Bill Simmons?

  So I'm, I'm really, I, I just, I think this is gonna be a close game. I think it's really hard to like, win a game convincingly in Denver with a team. It's one thing if Stidham came in in the second quarter and they're like, oh shit, we gotta change everything. They've had all week to figure out exactly how to do this.

• 1:59:00Bill Simmons?

  They're going to be able to throw on the, on the Pats a little bit. And then it's really going to come down to is Remandre going to be able to run the ball? And is Drake not going to turn the ball over? And I don't know the answers. I think Remandre is going to be able to run the ball.

• 1:59:14Speaker 03

  I want to ask you, you need to run the ball. And for God's sake, can Drake May, can Drake May run the ball? Is that too much to ask for?

• 1:59:23Speaker 02

  The fourth quarter, finally, they started running. It was crazy.

• 1:59:26Bill Simmons?

  A couple of the bets that I like for the props.

• 1:59:28Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:59:29Bill Simmons?

  Drake's longest run is 12 and a half yards. He did that in six of his last eight games.

• 1:59:34Speaker 03

  Not against Houston.

• 1:59:36Bill Simmons?

  No, Remandre's longest reception, 10 and a half yards is the over under. He's done that in seven of the last nine.

• 1:59:42Speaker 02

  Is he 100% healthy? What's the deal with his eye?

• 1:59:45Bill Simmons?

  He's fine. He got poked in the eye.

• 1:59:49Bill Simmons?

  So I like that. And then there's some Stidham props, like Stidham basically to throw 20 completions or more is, is 19 and a half is the completion number. And I just don't think they're going to be able to run the ball that well on the Pats. And Stidham's going to have to throw the ball. They, how many times they throw it last week? 51?

• 2:00:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:00:07Bill Simmons?

  Plus he scrambled 12 times.

• 2:00:08Speaker 03

  46, 46, 46 passes.

• 2:00:10Bill Simmons?

  And then Stidham 199 plus yards, I thought was interesting too, because they're going to get offense. Triggs, I know you love the tie first half money line second half game.

• 2:00:21Speaker 02

  I was texting you throughout the first half. I'm like, I don't like this. They're up 11. I don't, I don't like this. They're up four.

• 2:00:26Bill Simmons?

  That's 16 to one. Do it. And then, uh, there's some money line stuff we can do, House. You can do Pat's money line with the under of 50 and a half. That fits Ringer 107 rules. You could do Pat's money, Denver plus 14 and a half. It's minus 108. So basically the Pats win between one and 14 points. We could do that. We could do Pats plus five and a half with Denver plus eight and a half. That's minus 111. Basically saying it's going to be either the Pats will lose a close game or Denver's going to lose by less than a touchdown.

• 2:01:07Bill Simmons?

  Those were probably the ones I was looking at the most, but I had the Pats money line with the under 50 and a half. There'd be 51 points in this game. Seems pretty high.

• 2:01:16Speaker 03

  If we knew how many turnovers there would be, then I would feel more comfortable with it. But like we, I just.

• 2:01:23Speaker 02

  Let's just hope there's not a close call at the end because the NFL has got to, you know, get it going. We got to kick off afterwards.

• 2:01:30Bill Simmons?

  Shriggs, Broncos D gave up 29 to Indy, 32 to the Giants, 24 to Dallas, 26 to Green Bay, 26 to Washington and 30 to Buffalo last week.

• 2:01:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. And yet they rushed the passer, which is what you have to be worried about with your quarterback.

• 2:01:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Can we just target Riley Moss and throw it to him?

• 2:01:48Speaker 02

  I think they might have let the league in sacks. I could be actually throwing that number out. They might not even be good at sacks.

• 2:01:51Bill Simmons?

  Can we go, can we go big picture? Did you think Denver was that good this season?

• 2:01:57Speaker 02

  Uh, cardiac kids type season like the Bears, like just one amazing games, but I don't know if they're that good. They're the number one seed though, and they earned a home field advantage, which I think is huge there.

• 2:02:06Bill Simmons?

  I thought they were good. House?

• 2:02:10Speaker 03

  I thought they were good.

• 2:02:11Bill Simmons?

  I think the Seahawks are like another level than.

• 2:02:13Speaker 03

  The Patriots. Think they're good. They're fine. Two, two fine teams. The conference championship play for their right to go to the Superbowl.

• 2:02:21Speaker 02

  Fine.

• 2:02:22Bill Simmons?

  So it sounds like we have to trust the manifesto.

• 2:02:25Speaker 02

  What's the manifesto net out with? We had a lot of different arguments there.

• 2:02:29Bill Simmons?

  It says, but where are the nobody believes in us team for the Broncos? That's scary.

• 2:02:36Bill Simmons?

  Beware of any team that could use a notable off field distraction, major injury or tragedy as a gobblinizing force. They fit that one. Never pick an underdog unless you genuinely believe that it has a chance to win. They hit that one as well.

• 2:02:51Bill Simmons?

  Rule number 11. Don't talk yourself into a terrible QB ever for any reason.

• 2:02:58Speaker 02

  It's tricky. We don't know if he's terrible.

• 2:03:00Bill Simmons?

  And be super careful with first time playoff QBs who are basically like 20 and 42 against straight up and also terrible against the spread. And then, uh, and then remember the law of Lombardi, bad offensive lines don't travel. That could be the Patriots.

• 2:03:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's the, that's the Patriots.

• 2:03:19Bill Simmons?

  And then.

• 2:03:19Speaker 02

  Denver's offensive line is pretty good.

• 2:03:21Bill Simmons?

  Rule number 18. Take one last look at the quarterbacks.

• 2:03:26Speaker 03

  Doesn't help us.

• 2:03:28Bill Simmons?

  The fear of this is you talk yourself into the Broncos all week. And then Jared Stidham sucks. And the reason he sucks is because he's been a backup QB his whole career. And you're watching the game and you're a half hour and you're like, what did I do? I just bet on the Broncos backup QB in the AFC title game. I'm an idiot.

• 2:03:48Speaker 02

  Sean Payton loved him so, so much that he drafted Bo Nix in the first round with him on the roster.

• 2:03:54Bill Simmons?

  Right. He loved him so much, he used the biggest draft capital PC had on a competitor that could take his job.

• 2:04:03Speaker 02

  Here, here's what I envisioned. And when you're talking about, oh shit, you start the game and you're like, wait, House is exactly right. One of those wide receiver screens to like Marvin Mims or Cortland Sutton and he throws a wobbly ball and it's a pick six to start the game. And you're like, all right, here we go.

• 2:04:18Bill Simmons?

  Right. House, we taking the Pats minus four and a half? I hate it. We're not.

• 2:04:25Speaker 03

  Too many points. You gotta take Denver. The math says, take Denver. There's no, no, from, from the perspective of like, just the basic math of it, you have to play Denver.

• 2:04:36Bill Simmons?

  I can't do it.

• 2:04:37Speaker 03

  You can't lay, you can't lay four and a half. It just doesn't, there's no basis for it. It doesn't make any sense.

• 2:04:43Bill Simmons?

  All right. So I'm going to do Pat's money line with the under 50 and a half then.

• 2:04:47Speaker 03

  Okay. You, I, I'm not going to argue with you. Uh, I'm just, you know, we haven't had great success tying things together.

• 2:04:56Bill Simmons?

  Maybe this will be when it turns.

• 2:04:58Speaker 03

  It could be. We did go three and one last week.

• 2:05:02Bill Simmons?

  We should have gone 4-0. We talked ourselves into the stupid Niners.

• 2:05:06Speaker 02

  I know. That was me.

• 2:05:07Bill Simmons?

  No, it was fair.

• 2:05:09Speaker 02

  Very interesting nugget here. Maybe my most insightful stuff. Um, if it goes as you guys say, we'll have two mics coaching against each other in the Super Bowl. If it goes the opposite way, it'll be two Shans coaching against each other in the Super Bowl. My work is done.

• 2:05:25Bill Simmons?

  Do you like?

• 2:05:25Speaker 03

  That's so dumb.

• 2:05:26Bill Simmons?

  Do you like, uh, you don't like any under in the Seahawks, right? That's the stay away. All right, winner 107 is presented by FanDuel Sportsbook. That's where we get the lines from. And our first game is going to be the Patriots Broncos. We are going to take the Patriots money line parlayed with an under of 50 and a half. So if this game goes to 51 points and up, we lose. We're scared of the line.

• 2:05:54Speaker 03

  It's happened before.

• 2:05:54Bill Simmons?

  Broncos plus four and a half at home. There's no sign of history of this not covering, which is a little worrisome. There's also some bad bet. We covered all of it in the pod. That's one. Second, Ramon J. Stevenson, longest reception, 10 and a half yards over. Little bailout or maybe a little wheel route.

• 2:06:14Speaker 03

  I adore this.

• 2:06:15Bill Simmons?

  Something he's did it seven of his last nine times. That's our second bet.

• 2:06:18Speaker 03

  Chef's kiss. Love this one.

• 2:06:20Bill Simmons?

  Third bet, going Seahawks minus two and a half against the Rams. Rams, third straight road game. I think the Seahawks are the best team in the league. We'll see if Donald's oblique can hold up. Then last but not least, what do you think? Matthew Stafford for the interception minus 114?

• 2:06:38Speaker 03

  What is the cup anytime touchdown?

• 2:06:41Bill Simmons?

  That we didn't, we, but we're doing ring or 107. We don't need to take like a risk.

• 2:06:45Speaker 03

  Got it, got it, got it.

• 2:06:46Bill Simmons?

  So we could do, we could do Stafford. You could do the Drake May longest, longest rush 12 and a half yards. Or we could do Stidham plus 19 and a half completions.

• 2:06:59Bill Simmons?

  What excites you the most, House? Stafford interception? That'd be the most fun to root for. You don't like that one?

• 2:07:06Speaker 03

  Well, he didn't throw, he, he just doesn't throw a ton of picks. Like not his thing. And he didn't throw it, uh, you know, whatever that was three weeks ago, no interceptions.

• 2:07:17Bill Simmons?

  Shrigs, is there a guy in the Seahawks Rams game you feel like could be heard from?

• 2:07:24Bill Simmons?

  Could I give you? You like the cup alt receiving?

• 2:07:28Speaker 02

  I feel like they're gonna, this is, it sounds absurd. I feel like they're gonna make a priority and an emphasis on getting cup involved against his former team with a trip to the Super Bowl on the line.

• 2:07:38Bill Simmons?

  Cup 30 plus yards, minus 114, fits our parameters.

• 2:07:43Speaker 02

  I like it.

• 2:07:43Bill Simmons?

  You like that one, House?

• 2:07:44Speaker 03

  That's my favorite of all the ones.

• 2:07:46Bill Simmons?

  Really? You like that more than the?

• 2:07:48Speaker 03

  My second favorite is Stidham completion. So think, so you can tell.

• 2:07:52Speaker 02

  Doing both and the tie.

• 2:07:55Speaker 03

  Well, I'll parlay it.

• 2:07:56Bill Simmons?

  I could also offer you Rashid Shaheed, five plus rushing yards at minus 108. It's one sweeper on the corner.

• 2:08:05Speaker 02

  They had that great sweep for a big play.

• 2:08:07Bill Simmons?

  Just one time, one little gimmick sweep.

• 2:08:08Speaker 03

  I love that one. Why did you wait so long to do that one?

• 2:08:12Bill Simmons?

  I don't know. We'll do that one.

• 2:08:13Speaker 03

  That's one favorite. That's a terrific, that's one run.

• 2:08:16Bill Simmons?

  Rashid Shaheed, five plus yards, minus 108. Today's Ringer 107 was brought to you by FanDuel. Odds subject to change. Shreks, so you're going to the Super Bowl?

• 2:08:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:08:31Bill Simmons?

  And then what happens?

• 2:08:32Speaker 03

  Are you at one of these games this weekend?

• 2:08:34Speaker 02

  I'm not. I work on Monday Night Football, so there's no Monday situation. I'll say this. There's supposed to be this horrendous blizzard. Joe House, I know you're aware.

• 2:08:43Speaker 03

  It's coming. It's coming.

• 2:08:45Speaker 02

  I think the NFL is in cahoots with the weather gods. The ratings are gonna be absolutely insane. No one's leaving the house for two days and we just have two football games on. I can't wait.

• 2:08:56Bill Simmons?

  There's even stuff in like Texas, like Dallas is getting annihilated like they did at that Super Bowl. Yeah.

• 2:09:03Speaker 03

  We were at that Super Bowl.

• 2:09:04Bill Simmons?

  We were.

• 2:09:04Speaker 02

  The Ice Bowl.

• 2:09:05Bill Simmons?

  That was my favorite Super Bowl. We were the only ones there. Nobody else figured it out.

• 2:09:08Speaker 03

  Were you at that one?

• 2:09:09Speaker 02

  Of course I was.

• 2:09:10Bill Simmons?

  That's my favorite one. I don't think we're ahead of Shreks at that.

• 2:09:13Speaker 03

  We had a great time.

• 2:09:15Speaker 02

  I don't think we hung. I think the first time I hung with Bill at a Super Bowl was New Orleans when it was. Forty Niners Ravens.

• 2:09:21Bill Simmons?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:09:22Speaker 02

  I think Louis, Louis K. introduced us and I was like a kid in a candy shop.

• 2:09:26Speaker 03

  I was there. That was 2013. That was me against Cousin Sal.

• 2:09:29Bill Simmons?

  Were you there the last night and before the game in Dallas? When we went to that party and nobody was at the party and they had like a million things of booze?

• 2:09:37Speaker 03

  Uh, was that the party?

• 2:09:40Bill Simmons?

  And it was outdoors.

• 2:09:40Speaker 03

  Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher? Yes.

• 2:09:43Bill Simmons?

  And we were all huddled under the heat lamps?

• 2:09:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, with Aaron Andrews, name drop, motherfucker. We did it all.

• 2:09:48Bill Simmons?

  Louis was there. We had a bunch of people, but.

• 2:09:50Speaker 03

  Louis was there.

• 2:09:51Bill Simmons?

  We were drinking and freezing to death. And I flew from there to New York and I got bronchitis. I was the sickest I've ever been. I was, I was in the ironically, the Trump Plaza Hotel in New York City for two days. Like, like having like fever dream, like thinking I was gonna die level sick. And missed multiple flights back. It was the most sick I've ever been, but I had a great time. Thank you, Dallas.

• 2:10:17Speaker 02

  Thank you, Dallas. Do you go to that Nick and Steph's? Great steakhouse down there.

• 2:10:22Bill Simmons?

  Definitely did that.

• 2:10:22Speaker 02

  Or Nick and Tony's?

• 2:10:23Bill Simmons?

  The funny thing is with Dallas.

• 2:10:25Speaker 02

  Nick and Sam's.

• 2:10:26Bill Simmons?

  Dallas is set up where it's like they have no snowplow. They have no ice. They have no salt for the, no salt for the ice and the things. They, they just have no plan if there's ever bad weather. It's like, sorry, guys, you're on your own. It's the strangest thing I ever saw. Nobody could drive around.

• 2:10:41Speaker 02

  No, the bus drivers didn't know how to do it. They like careened off the road, if you remember.

• 2:10:45Bill Simmons?

  It's like black ice.

• 2:10:47Speaker 02

  Yes, it was brutal.

• 2:10:48Bill Simmons?

  Honestly, Dallas's handling of bad weather would be the most inexplicable thing this century with Dallas if they hadn't traded Luka Doncic for a banged up Anthony Davis. That's still number one.

• 2:11:00Speaker 02

  How about you suggesting Luka? How about you suggesting, what was it? LeBron James for Kat? All my Knicks fans texting me.

• 2:11:06Bill Simmons?

  Would they get mad?

• 2:11:08Speaker 02

  No, everyone's sick of killing it.

• 2:11:10Bill Simmons?

  Earlier in the podcast, we did, we traded Luka for Giannis.

• 2:11:14Speaker 03

  He just tried that.

• 2:11:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he tried it. It got rejected.

• 2:11:16Speaker 03

  It's on today's show.

• 2:11:17Bill Simmons?

  Triggs.

• 2:11:18Speaker 02

  Real quick.

• 2:11:18Bill Simmons?

  Oh, go.

• 2:11:19Speaker 02

  Netflix, they had this whole thing. Netflix is a joke. I'm seeing all these ads about Tim Dillon doing something and this one's doing something. Can we get a Simmons in house?

• 2:11:29Bill Simmons?

  May Netflix is a joke like a live event where you guys are doing something for Netflix? Can I go and attend that? I would love that. Well, I'm actually doing that because I'm doing something with the guys from tires. Oh, Shane and those guys. Shane Gillis and Matt. We're doing that in there. Yeah.

• 2:11:44Speaker 03

  Well, I have to invite myself to be in the audience for that.

• 2:11:46Bill Simmons?

  You can.

• 2:11:47Speaker 03

  You and I will be backstage.

• 2:11:49Bill Simmons?

  Wearing Bill Simmons t-shirts.

• 2:11:51Speaker 03

  Where's the food?

• 2:11:51Bill Simmons?

  She'd be throwing it out to Shane. Uh, it's in LA.

• 2:11:55Speaker 03

  Oh, great.

• 2:11:56Bill Simmons?

  I think I'm going to see Shane Gillis this weekend if the snow doesn't stop me. He's playing at the Garden. New York City. I know. I have friends that are going to that. Okay. Happy for that.

• 2:12:04Speaker 03

  Enjoyed.

• 2:12:05Bill Simmons?

  Shreggs, great to see you. House, thanks for sticking around for two hours and nine minutes. House with the Eastside golf hat. I see that.

• 2:12:13Speaker 03

  No, you know how we do it.

• 2:12:14Bill Simmons?

  Great print. Thanks to Gahan Eduardo as well. Don't forget, uh, new rewatch was coming Monday. We're first time on Netflix. It is going to be Zodiac. You can also get it on Spotify, Spotify as well. We're taping it tomorrow.

• 2:12:26Speaker 03

  Shreggs didn't know.

• 2:12:26Bill Simmons?

  Could be three hours. Yeah, me and Fantasy and Chris Ryan. Fincher. And, uh, and that's it. We have a bunch more pods going on Netflix as well, uh, starting on Monday. Guys, enjoy the weekend. Go Pats.

• 2:12:38Speaker 03

  Let's go football.

• 2:12:54Bill Simmons?

  Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino. Or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 888-797777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplineMA.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts. Or call 877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York. This episode is brought to you by Core Power Protein Shakes. You know how we always talk about the little things that separate great athletes? Post-workout recovery is a big factor.

• 2:13:35Bill Simmons?

  Core Power Protein Shakes help you keep going after your workout with high-quality protein to build muscle and electrolytes to help hydrate. It's all you need for your recovery in one bottle. Available in 26 and 42 gram protein options to pick what works best for you. Visit corepower.com to learn more. This episode is brought to you by Searchlight Pictures Wild Horse 9. John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell. I like those guys. Star in the sharp-witted comedy thriller from Academy Award winner Martin McDonagh. Writer-director of The Banshees of Minnehoshan and Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri. Set in the 1970s, filmed on location on Easter Island. Malkovich and Rockwell play CIA agents Chris and Lee, who are caught in a dangerous game of secrets and survival.

• 2:14:19Bill Simmons?

  Also starring Steve Buscemi, another one of my guys. Parker Posey and Tom Waits. Wild Horse 9 is being hailed by critics as a revitalizing shot of pure entertainment and easily one of the best films of the year. Don't miss Wild Horse 9, only in theaters November 6. Get tickets now.