Hello Cleveland, Week 4 NFL Picks, NBA Award Leans, Raiders Realities, and Boston Despair With Joe House, Tom Pelissero, and Bill’s dad

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Joe House to react to the Steelers-Browns 'TNF' matchup before making their Ringer 107 picks. Then, Tom Pelissero hops on to discuss six NFL topics heading into Week 4. Finally, Bill’s dad joins the pod to discuss the end of the Red Sox's season, Boston sports, and more! (0:00) Intro (1:08) Steelers-Browns recap (10:45) Fever-Aces recap (17:03) Ringer 107 Week 4 picks (49:09) Jalen Duren takes Pistons offer and other NBA talk (01:06:08) Six NFL topics with Tom Pelissero (01:49:08) Recapping the Red Sox's season (02:16:23) Celtics and Boston sports preview Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Joe House, Tom Pelissero, and Bill’s dad Producers: Chia Hao Tat, Eduardo Ocampo, and Chris Wohlers Now lime comes first. Flip the Sip. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by PayPal. The holiday rush is coming and you can get ahead of it with PayPal. Shop your favorite online stores with PayPal this season like eBay for collectibles, Fanatics for teen gear, Walmart for tech. Check out the flexibility to pay now or pay later and split your payments with Pay in four with no interest, no late fees. Shop now with PayPal. Paying for subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com slash paying for PayPal, Inc., NMLS 910457.

• 0:39Bill Simmons?

  This is the Bill Simmons Podcast presented by FanDuel. Make every NFL week more rewarding with FanDuel Rewards Club. You heard me. Just bet like you normally would, earn points in eligible subtle bets, win or lose. Keep collecting points, level up and unlock bigger rewards. So keep an eye on your rewards club progress and see what you can unlock. This is your most rewarding season ever and it's with FanDuel. 21 plus select states or 18 plus DC or Wyoming. Game prob call 1-800-GAMBLER or call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat Connecticut.

• 1:41Bill Simmons?

  All right. I was just doing a tweet house. It's the Bill Simmons Podcast. We're live on Netflix. Very good sports night. Joe House is here. You can also listen to him on Ringer Wise Guys and Fairway Roland. Uh, I have a new rewatchables coming on Monday, House. We're doing Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

• 1:59Speaker 01

  Wow. The OG from the seventies?

• 2:01Bill Simmons?

  The OG from 1974. It's on every streaming service right now, including Netflix. So CR and I are gonna break all of it down.

• 2:08Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 2:09Bill Simmons?

  Very fun movie to research all that stuff. Okay. So we had a pivotal best of three baseball game, which we're not going to talk about. We have.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  Well, it was over in one inning, so it's.

• 2:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it was over in one inning. Philly shut the door with their pitching. We have Fever Aces, which we will talk about in a little bit. And then we had an incredible for Thursday night, Browns Steelers game. The Browns win in the end, 56 yard field goal. They almost blow it. They kicked the ball right to the end zone. They learned nothing from, from the Cowboys four days ago. Uh, but then Rogers throws a pick. That's it. The Browns are three and one and looked really competent and they were underdogs in this game. I stayed away. If we had done Ringer 107 and include the Thursday night, I would have thought about them because I didn't think they should be underdogs, but I was impressed. I don't think it's like going to be a one seed or a two seed, but I do think they have a chance to make the playoffs.

• 3:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I feel kind of bad. I'll confess. I have two apologies. One, one to you. Um, and I'll, but, but the first one I want to.

• 3:14Bill Simmons?

  Why are you apologizing to me?

• 3:15Speaker 01

  Because you and I had a conversation about the Browns and you were like.

• 3:19Bill Simmons?

  You soured me on them.

• 3:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not sure that I'm really wanted to. And yeah, I tried to talk you out of it, but I also owe.

• 3:27Bill Simmons?

  Cause their over was five and a half.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I know. I owe Anthony Jeselnik an apology because on this program last week, you made mention of Anthony and his new podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network.

• 3:44Bill Simmons?

  Chasing a book club.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you tried to like get some enthusiasm out of me, um, in support of this. And I had been on a business trip. I was unaware of the arrival of the Chasing the Book Club. I was barely aware that you had interviewed him last week and I thought it was a bit. I thought you were setting me up for something. So I was kind of dismissive. I'm a big fan. I'm a fan of Jeselnik. I'm a fan of the book club. I'm a fan of the pod. So apologies to AJ.

• 4:13Bill Simmons?

  So they, so you want to be invited to the, uh, on the AJ book pod now? That's, that was your, that was your official resume? No, I think, listen, you're eligible. Ringer people go on the pod.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  I mean, I volunteer for every Ringer pod, so that goes without saying.

• 4:27Bill Simmons?

  What do we do with this Deshaun Watson resurgence? Cause this is now two and a half games in a row that he's looked competent. Um, and it started with that Tampa game that cost both of us money. Where in the second half, over and over again, he was just completing passes and doing things. Today, there were moments when he was moving around like Houston Deshaun.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:46Bill Simmons?

  And it was kind of shocking. I didn't even know he had that in him anymore, you know? And he made a couple dumb throws and, uh, it wasn't like he was perfect, but he's certainly so far ahead of where we were a couple of weeks ago when we were talking, we were doing the countdown to last games ever to bet against Deshaun Watson. I think he's, he's kind of shoved that whole thing away, right?

• 5:06Speaker 01

  The true credit, I think, goes to, to Todd Monkin. I think the combination of just the confidence that Monkin has plus Monkin is, we, we now are having this experience where we're seeing superlative offensive coordinators. And when you see it, you're like, oh my God, he's in his bag. This guy is calling a game where he understands where his advantages are. And the amplifying effect that it has on quarterbacks. We just watched an out of body experience out of Case Keenum on Monday night. Right? And then, and then that's same kind of concept reinforced here tonight with, uh, Deshaun Watson. We haven't seen in five years, six years?

• 5:49Speaker 01

  How long has it been since you see him playing with, with confidence, with instinct, right? He's not thinking anymore.

• 5:57Bill Simmons?

  No, he had a couple that create a play when there was nothing in the play place that he used to do when he was at Houston.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 6:05Bill Simmons?

  Haven't seen that in forever. Well, it really helps that they nailed two drafts in a row, which was one of the cases I had for trying to figure out if they were going to go over or not. And the quarterback situation looked so bleak in the preseason. It just wasn't a responsible pick, but Concepcion in Boston, they nailed both of those picks, right? And they're, and they're two different types of receivers that complement each other perfectly. And it's like, all right, they were two top 40 picks. Like congratulations. But listen, the Patriots have been drafting second round receivers and end of the first round receivers for this entire century and haven't nailed any of them. And they nailed both of them. Like you're lucky to go one or two in those situations. And then I thought Judkins had some life too.

• 6:47Bill Simmons?

  They lost, uh, they lost Mason Graham in the first half, which, which wasn't, didn't seem like a good omen. And they let Pittsburgh hang around.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:57Bill Simmons?

  And it was the kind of game that I feel like the Browns would have blown.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  Round away.

• 7:02Bill Simmons?

  In years past, and by, when I say years past, I mean, the entire existence of this Browns expansion franchise.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  Last year, earlier this season.

• 7:11Bill Simmons?

  Uh, the 2010s pick a year, they probably would have blown this game, but they did not.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  The interesting thing to me is also speaking of Monkin, I'm just going to do this whole Monkin dance.

• 7:25Bill Simmons?

  I like.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  They have, uh, a, a completely revamped offensive line. Which is to say, you know, nobody will of any particular acclaim or vintage, but scheme wise, because of what they are trying to accomplish with, with their, their run scheme, especially you see Judkins getting, um, getting loose and it creates an advantage for the, for the pass offense.

• 7:51Bill Simmons?

  Uh, yeah.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  And again.

• 7:53Bill Simmons?

  The fan in too, like they have these places. Judy, I forgot was on the team and then all of a sudden he had a couple catches.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Important.

• 7:59Bill Simmons?

  So they go, House, they go at the Jets next week.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:05Bill Simmons?

  Ravens home, at Titans, at Steelers. I'm just looking for easy games on the schedule for them other than at Titans. They have Texans, Raiders, Bengals, Falcons at home. They're at the Giants, which the Giants might be tanking at that point. Um, and their home Colts and at Bengals, there, there might be like nine wins in there. I don't know if that's, I don't know if there's 10.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a, I mean, the, the challenge now is like the Raiders, that's not a pushover team. The Jets, I don't think are a pushover team. Like where, where you would go through and say, okay.

• 8:39Bill Simmons?

  Two Bengals games left, two Ravens games left, basically. They do have two first round picks and they could potentially, uh, do one of them. Um, the better they are, the, the stranger these broadcasts are going to be when they have to, they force themselves to have the obligatory Deshaun conversation too. Where they, it's like, ah, we got, kind of got to do it. And then they want to do it, but they don't want to spend too much time on it and they got to kind of rip through it. And I guess that we're just going to be doing that forever too.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, four games in, let's see how this week plays out, but he's in the top half of the league of, of quarterbacks? Is he in the top 10?

• 9:17Bill Simmons?

  This is crazy.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  I mean. Where's Deshaun Watson?

• 9:20Bill Simmons?

  He was so bad in that first game.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:23Bill Simmons?

  That it felt like they, it almost felt like Monkin was throwing him to the wolves in those first two games so that he could start Shador in, in week three at home and just be out of this and be good. And, um, I don't know if it's going to happen. On the, uh, on the Pittsburgh side, they're two and two. Another competent Aaron Rodgers game. But you know.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  Almost 300 yards.

• 9:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he had a couple across the body throws. I thought he took some hits. I didn't get the feeling from him that, you know, he was just trying to get rid of the ball and not get hit at all, like you do sometimes when you watch them. And I thought he was good last week too. Um, they figured out something with the tight ends. Metcalf, who I think only had five catches, but they were over a hundred yards with the catches, uh, and Jalen Warren just, just turning the, uh, running game over to him. Seems like it's okay. They're fine. They're going to be in that eight, nine, nine and eight, somewhere around there too.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  Of course. Yeah. The defense is good. The defense turned the game with the, the two, generated the two turnovers that you expect out of Pittsburgh. That's what put the game in, you know, within arms' reach of them winning.

• 10:30Bill Simmons?

  Do you think they could have used Joey Porter in that game?

• 10:33Speaker 01

  End of game possession. Maybe, maybe they could have used him.

• 10:38Bill Simmons?

  Couple plays, Boston going deep.

• 10:42Bill Simmons?

  Good Thursday night game though.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  Really good, like good spirited, divisional game, well played. I'm interesting and I'm interested in looking at where the EPA and success numbers come in because it felt like it was pretty efficient. I didn't feel like I was watching a lot of bullshit tonight.

• 10:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, and Bills Lions was good in week one, at least fun to watch. Last week, Green Bay didn't show up, but Atlanta, they were kind of fun to watch. So maybe, maybe Thursday nights are back.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  Thursday night.

• 11:10Bill Simmons?

  Who knows?

• 11:11Speaker 01

  Fingers crossed.

• 11:13Bill Simmons?

  We're going to do a lot more NFL in a second because we have Ringer 107. We got to talk Fever Aces. How much, how closely did you watch what was going on in this game?

• 11:23Speaker 01

  I watched like the entirety of the second quarter and to me, that was the sort of difference in the game. It was that stretch where towards the end of that quarter, the Fever couldn't score. And every possession looked like it was hard. They were laboring on offense. There were step back, three attempts. They weren't getting offensive rebounds. And that was the margin the Aces needed because the Aces were getting buckets when they needed to throughout the game. And you knew for sure after the first quarter went 31, 31, like a, like a giant scoring quarter.

• 11:58Speaker 01

  In an elimination game, you knew it was going to ratchet down. And then, you know, you're looking at for the balance of the game, quarters where the highest scoring quarter was, was the highest scoring team was the Aces in the fourth quarter. And that's just because they're getting the fouls at the end.

• 12:12Bill Simmons?

  Championship game.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:14Bill Simmons?

  This is a team that's won three out of four years. They have the best player of all time in the league who put up 36 today. It was 12 for 15 free throw line. Watching it and thinking that Katelyn side too, Katelyn goes another year now without winning anything. It felt a little 2005, 2007 range Nash versus Duncan to me. Watching it because I think, I thought the Fever were really fun to watch this year. I love the way they played. But the worst habits of them were when they weren't running as much. Things slowed down and they would just start jacking up threes. And, and I think the two guards today for them, Clark and Mitchell, were six for 23 from three.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 12:57Bill Simmons?

  Right? But here's the thing, in the last five minutes, they had the ball with a chance to tie twice. Right? Mitchell missed a little bunny one of the times. And then the other time Caitlyn threw her the ball and, and it just kind of ricocheted off of her out of bounds. And then you go on the flip side, those, those two Vegas guards and, and Asia are just, I don't know how he's, the Asia, like, I guess you gotta double her. Maybe we'll see somebody do that in the next. I would never have her have the ball alone at the top of the key ever. I haven't seen anybody stop it. I know, just send a second person. Let everyone else beat me. I don't, you know, and then Chelsea Gray had a couple hand in the face crazy shots.

• 13:39Bill Simmons?

  But this game came down to like five plays and they just made all the plays because they're the champs. And if I'm the Fever, I'm like, alright, it's a little differences. But that was what that Nash Duncan era was like, where it was like, the Suns were right there. And, you know, it was just a couple of different plays. There was some style stuff and then there was Duncan and Asia.

• 14:00Speaker 01

  Like, you know, if they, if the Fever could figure out offensive rebounding.

• 14:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, what was the final? They got, yeah, Mitchell was seven for 23, by the way. They just, they just didn't play well. You know, the smartest thing Asia did was not playing the FIBA thing.

• 14:20Bill Simmons?

  Rest of the legs.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  She, I think she needed the rest. They were good at that.

• 14:25Bill Simmons?

  So Caitlyn, the narrative now will be, hey, she's never won anything. Congrats on your shoe selling out.

• 14:32Bill Simmons?

  I think she's incredibly fun to watch. I have, there's no, there's going to be no, no jabs in Caitlyn coming from, coming from my side. But it is true that she has never won anything. Today she was six for 18 and had six turnovers.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  Three for 12 from three. Not getting it done.

• 14:49Bill Simmons?

  And got nailed in the mouth at one point and looked like, uh, one of the things I noticed when I watched, I mean, this is probably one of the biggest non-finals game in the history of the league. Right?

• 14:59Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 14:59Bill Simmons?

  And the officiating was bad yet again.

• 15:04Bill Simmons?

  I just, I'm always like, what's, what was that? How was that? Are they going to challenge that? You're just kind of constantly asking. But I think the way Asia plays is just kind of perfect for that chaotic. The refs kind of don't know what to do. I don't know how you call anything one way or the other on her. She's creating contact all the time. And they're the best team and they're probably going to win the title.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  She went 12 for 15 from the free throw line.

• 15:29Bill Simmons?

  We're going to get Aces Liberty again. That's what's going to happen.

• 15:32Speaker 01

  That's fine.

• 15:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 15:33Speaker 01

  I'm disappointed in the Lynx. I wanted the Lynx.

• 15:36Bill Simmons?

  And then Miles got hurt though.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, she wasn't remotely the same. Do you follow the controversy at all of the guy pointing at Asia and Asia kind of good, leaving the court, walking toward him?

• 15:46Speaker 01

  I saw it.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  Don't think she needed to leave the court.

• 15:51Bill Simmons?

  It was a weird one.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  Don't mind her yelling at the guy. Understand, you know, from her perspective, why that felt the way it felt, but to leave.

• 16:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I don't know what the buildup was in those Indiana games with the fans.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:05Bill Simmons?

  And if it's other stuff and that was the culmination, but just as an isolated incident, that was ridiculous. And I didn't think that was a great thing. In this league over and over again, every time they're circling a great moment or a great game, they have to have some dumb shit happen. They just, it's like the league can't help stepping in it every single time with some dumb event like that. And this is Asia, the best player in the league, coming off a crazy game one, crazy in game three, and then tomorrow the dialogue will probably be more about her and that fan 24 hours of, you know, right into WA, Benny Punishment and all that stuff. It's just, the league can't stay out of it, House.

• 16:46Speaker 01

  They'll figure it out or they won't.

• 16:49Bill Simmons?

  You seem, did you lose money on this game? You seem kind of low energy on that.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  I just want to, I just want to be very careful. I feel like it's.

• 16:57Bill Simmons?

  It's a scared house.

• 16:59Speaker 01

  This whole thing, the whole, the whole kit and caboodle, just, I, I admire, the Aces handled their business.

• 17:05Bill Simmons?

  The funny thing is five minutes from now, you're going to be telling somebody to eat a big dick in the, in the NFL. But WNBA, we're going to be careful.

• 17:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, we are.

• 17:17Bill Simmons?

  You've been betting on WNBA this year.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  I did, I did. I, I had a nice run with the Mystics. The Mystics were very good. They made a push to get to the playoffs. It was absolutely the worst possible matchup for them going against the Dream. The Dream have their number.

• 17:33Bill Simmons?

  It was sad.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:37Bill Simmons?

  We're going to do Ringer 107. It's brought to you by FanDuel. Make this your most rewarding season. Download the FanDuel app to check all our Ringer 107 picks and boosted teasers. Every week this season, the biggest question I got for the past week was, did we find a sponsor for Eat a Fat Dick yet? And are there going to be T-shirts was another question.

• 17:58Speaker 01

  Oh, that's, somebody's going to do that.

• 18:00Bill Simmons?

  There were T-shirts about my colonoscopy.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 18:04Bill Simmons?

  So now people are wondering, are there going to be Eat a Fat Dick T-shirts? Would House be on the shirt? What are the shirts going to look like? Is there a logo? Seems like there's some, some interest and the sponsor stuff. We did get some approaches for some sponsors.

• 18:20Speaker 01

  Good.

• 18:21Bill Simmons?

  I wouldn't say there were any mainstream sponsors. And there was one that seemed like it might've been a sex toy company.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  That feels right.

• 18:31Bill Simmons?

  Couple sausage places.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 18:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but didn't, nothing that really caught my eye yet. I'll, I'll, I'll keep you posted.

• 18:39Speaker 01

  Okay, thanks.

• 18:40Bill Simmons?

  But I don't know if you, if you need me to set you up later for somebody to eat a fat dick, tell me.

• 18:45Speaker 01

  We'll see how, how this all plays out when we start talking about these games.

• 18:49Bill Simmons?

  What's your record in Ringer 107? Mine is seven and eight.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  I'm eight and seven.

• 18:54Bill Simmons?

  I'm seven and eight, but if you just remove Tampa Bay, I'm seven and five.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  What a fun, fun way to do it. Sure, just remove whoever the biggest loser is.

• 19:05Bill Simmons?

  Last week's strategy of Tampa can't possibly break the record for most times not covering the spread. This would be the week, didn't work and Baker Mayfield broke his thumb. Wasn't awesome.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  This is their week.

• 19:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I have a, before we get to Ringer 107, I do have a couple of mailbag things just really quickly.

• 19:25Speaker 01

  Great.

• 19:26Bill Simmons?

  I got a bunch of people sent Drake May names.

• 19:30Bill Simmons?

  That I didn't really appreciate, including Drake Bortles. Drake Mayday, Drake Madoff and Drake maybe Mac Jones seemed to be the more, the most competent ones. Walker from Georgia is a Pacers fan who thinks you should give the Eat a Fat Dick award to the NBA scheduler who scheduled Halliburton's first game to be against the Pelicans on League Pass.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 19:53Bill Simmons?

  He said all the Pacer fans would love for that guy to munch on one.

• 19:58Speaker 01

  Well, I don't understand, what's that mean?

• 20:01Bill Simmons?

  It just felt like the guy made the finals two years ago. He's one of the league's best young stars and his first game back from a really traumatic injury. And it's like, eh, go find it on League Pass.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  They get to, they get to play the Pelicans.

• 20:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but maybe they, maybe they should be playing like, I don't know, somebody good.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  I guess, I guess, I get it.

• 20:21Bill Simmons?

  Sam from Nashville, um, heard me, me and Brian Curtis talking about Mike Tomlin. And how he's the, been the first real football media star we've had since Roma broke out that year. And he mentioned that it was a day before we found out about this Minecraft thing that Tomlin had. When he spelled out the city that he built in Minecraft for 12 years and how he really got into the Jack and Jill bathrooms. And he doesn't think this is a guy that's getting back into coaching. We're going to have him announcing for a while. I don't understand Minecraft, do you? I don't, like, I didn't really know what was going on there.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  My kid plays it and he plays it with other kids. And there is like this concept of building things, but I don't know to what end.

• 21:09Bill Simmons?

  Well, I guess you build whatever you're building and then what do you do? Show people?

• 21:13Speaker 01

  I don't know. That's what I mean, that's exactly what I'm saying.

• 21:17Bill Simmons?

  Compete against other people?

• 21:17Speaker 01

  I don't know. I have no idea. Haven't gotten engaged in it. Just see him doing it. It feels like it's productive. It's, it's more, um.

• 21:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, neither of us are going to judge what somebody does in their dumb spare time.

• 21:32Speaker 01

  No.

• 21:32Bill Simmons?

  We've certainly done a bunch of dumb stuff, but the Minecraft, I just don't, I don't understand what it is.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  With the video game stuff that's out there, this feels wholesome to me, Minecraft.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  Although, no, I don't think I should reference it.

• 21:46Bill Simmons?

  Great. Karen in Manhattan Beach asked if I'm worried that the Seahawks Super Bowl was Drake May's version of the Atlanta Hawks game seven that Ben Simmons had when he spiraled the wrong way.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  That's a tough one.

• 22:00Bill Simmons?

  Karen, didn't appreciate the email. Patrick in Canada was one of many to point out that, um.

• 22:08Bill Simmons?

  That Jim Harbaugh theorized that if this Chargers season goes badly, he'll be looking for the exit door to go back to college.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:18Bill Simmons?

  Well, he can't because he's suspended for multiple NCAA things. So he actually, he can't go back to college, which I didn't realize. And he can't go back to college for a while. So it's either get fired, um, go into TV, or I guess resign.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  Or, or, you know, battle it out like a man.

• 22:43Bill Simmons?

  I think the, the point is, I think Jim Harbaugh is sticking around. All right, Ringer 107, I have first pick this week.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  You do.

• 22:50Bill Simmons?

  It's week four.

• 22:51Speaker 01

  It's week four.

• 22:55Bill Simmons?

  You know, there's a couple of lines that are at minus three. And I was kind of wondering if they might drop to minus two and a half for Sunday. And be my fifth Sunday pick because we picked three today and then teaser.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 23:07Bill Simmons?

  And then we have a fifth pick on, on Sunday.

• 23:11Bill Simmons?

  I'm just going to roll the dice with this first one. Cause I don't think the line's going to go down. Texans minus three against the Cowboys, Texans home. It seems like Nico Collins is back.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 23:25Bill Simmons?

  I assume he's back. He's practiced today. We won't know officially until tomorrow. I was going to wait until Sunday to make sure he was back, but I think if people know he's back, I think this goes up. Houston's 0-3. I think I've had them at least two of those three weeks in Ringer 107. Um, I thought they should have won last week and they just kind of gacked the game. Dallas is coming off that weird Brazil game. Dallas's defense, they traded for Joey Porter this week and might actually throw them out there.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  Why not?

• 23:56Bill Simmons?

  It's an all time must win for Houston, who's season ostensibly could be over anyway, because they've been 0-3 back to back seasons. Nobody's ever made the playoffs after two 0-3's in a row and made the playoffs both times.

• 24:09Bill Simmons?

  But I, you know, looking back at those three games, House.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 24:14Bill Simmons?

  I'm not saying they could be 3-0, but I'm saying they could be 3-0. It's one of those like either, three either or games. And, uh, and I just don't see how they go 0-4. I like the matchup with them too, because they have that secondary that they can throw on the Dallas receivers.

• 24:33Bill Simmons?

  And Nico is, where, if Nico wasn't playing, I think this line would be minus two. I think he's worth more than a point. So anyway, Texans minus three is my first one.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I like it. I couldn't, um, get myself there just because I had to get out of the, the Texans business that I lost.

• 24:49Bill Simmons?

  I don't blame you.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  The first couple of weeks, the same way you did. But Nico was, but I, I was trying to be stubborn and say, oh, they, they could still have success without Nico. My real problem with the Texans is going back to, to week three in Indianapolis, they just needed a stop and they couldn't get the stop. They just needed to keep the Colts from getting the ball and going down the field to get into the field goal range, and they couldn't do it. And the defense has been giving up explosives. And the one thing that Dallas can do, it's, it's an, in a dome, it's a fast track. I like the Texans here, um, but I'm just not willing to, to go the extra mile with it. I think that they're going to win, um, and I think they're going to win by, you know, three or more.

• 25:35Bill Simmons?

  To me, this is a big picture pick. Where it's almost, and I know we're not supposed to think this way going game to game, but is this Texans team really going to go 0-4? With the amount of talent that they have? And just because Nico Collins got hurt for two games, I, I can't buy it. So I'm, I'm going to have to lay the points and just do it. All right, what's your first pick?

• 25:56Speaker 01

  I was worried that you were going to take this one when you started off with the idea of, of laying the three. I have no problem whatsoever laying the three with the LA Rams going into Philadelphia and taking on this, this Philadelphia team where something inside seems rotten.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  I, I, I know that we've learned over the years to not overreact when it comes to, to Philadelphia. But their, their defense is not elite. Their defense was supposed to be elite. It is not elite. They are not getting pressure. They, they let Case Keenum get, um, whatever he wanted. They got out schemed and this is a must win for the Rams. Puka is back.

• 26:43Bill Simmons?

  Puka's back, but it's the one thing that worried me about this game is he's back, but am I, would I bet my life he's playing on Sunday? I don't know. They're like, it's looking like he's going to be back, but he, it feels like he's got like a hip hernia type thing.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  See, I, I wondered if they're doing a rope a dope with that a little bit so that Philly can't easily game plan for them. But there's some indication that Devante Smith is possibly going to miss. He's definitely banged up.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  And as a, you know, general proposition, that receiving core and Hertz still, you know, in, in search of, Goddard's injury is a big deal. Ertz got a catch. Zach Ertz, welcome back to the NFL. He had a great.

• 27:26Bill Simmons?

  He was on, he was on Schrager's show, I thought, the first week.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  Wow, amazing.

• 27:31Bill Simmons?

  Schrager renamed the show. He's calling it Get Back Up.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  Is he?

• 27:36Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  I don't think that's true.

• 27:39Bill Simmons?

  It was, it was a link to Get Up. It was in the afternoon.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  Get Back Up.

• 27:44Bill Simmons?

  Get Back Up. Exclamation point. Get Back Up.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  Shakes.

• 27:50Bill Simmons?

  I, uh, I'm with you on the Rams and that was my next pick.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  Oh, good. Okay.

• 27:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. So I'm piggybacking you. I, I think it's 2-1 on piggybacks.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  Look at us.

• 28:00Bill Simmons?

  Rams coming off a loss. I like it.

• 28:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:04Bill Simmons?

  Puka, I hope you're right on the rope a dope. Rams would be 1-3 if they lost this game. That seems inconceivable. But the biggest thing to me is I just don't think, there's a couple of teams I, I went against this week or I'm thinking of going against that I just don't think are good.

• 28:19Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 28:20Bill Simmons?

  And I don't think the Eagles are good. I don't think the Case Keenum thing was an accident. I don't think he took anybody by surprise. I don't think this was, oh my God, Ben Johnson was in his bag. I just don't think they're that good. They have one receiver. Barkley is clearly not the same guy that he was a couple of years ago. Their offensive line is not even remotely close to what they've had in years past. They're one of those teams where it's like, what, what is your, what's your like major strength that stands out? Cause in the old days, you'd be like, the Lions, they own the trenches. Defensive line, offensive line. Carter, they, he has an injury too, but he, Carter hasn't been the same guy.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:59Bill Simmons?

  And I, I, I thought the, I thought they could have easily lost in week one to your team. Right?

• 29:07Bill Simmons?

  And then week two wasn't impressive either. And then last week was embarrassing.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  Could have and should have lost to the Titans. I mean, it was a pretty extraordinary drive that Jalen Hurts led them on to beat the Titans at the very end of that game.

• 29:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, and you could excuse it because there's humidity and some other stuff. But last week, I just, I wasn't surprised. I liked the Bears in that game.

• 29:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. Eagles through three weeks, 24th in the NFL in defensive pressure rate. That sucks.

• 29:36Bill Simmons?

  That doesn't sound like them.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 29:39Bill Simmons?

  And when you watch the Lions, sometimes I just, when I watch the TV, I just like to see what, which way the Lions are going when the ball gets snapped. And the Eagles line always used to go forward and now it kind of doesn't.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:50Bill Simmons?

  So that was my second pick. Rams minus three. I thought about, that was the other one I thought about waiting until Sunday.

• 29:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:56Bill Simmons?

  But I don't think that goes down.

• 29:57Speaker 01

  No, I'm worried.

• 29:58Bill Simmons?

  Puka's going to play. I think that could bump up to Rams three and a half.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  If there's news of anything, like if, if Devante Smith misses, um, that might move a half point in the other direction. It might be three and a half by game time.

• 30:09Bill Simmons?

  The other thing, when you talk about home field advantages, and obviously if things are going well, Philly's got one. But I think Philly's one of those NFL cities where if it's not going well, you can really feel it.

• 30:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:21Bill Simmons?

  And.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  Those fans do not like it.

• 30:23Bill Simmons?

  I could see this being one of them where you can just kind of feel the vibe through the TV of the fans. The, you know, the Phillies lost today, they're out.

• 30:32Bill Simmons?

  And the Eagles, if they blow this game, you could feel the whole city kind of mentally shifting toward.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  The Sixers.

• 30:38Bill Simmons?

  The Sixers.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  They're getting ready for the Sixers. They're getting ready for LeBron time.

• 30:42Bill Simmons?

  If the Rams are up 27-10 early in the fourth quarter, it's like LeBron time, baby.

• 30:48Bill Simmons?

  Embiid said LeBron came to Philly to help him win a title. That was his number one reason. I love that Embiid, he's so sweet that he believes that.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  You only, your, your best bit this whole week was Embiid just play once a week. Amazing. Let's do that.

• 31:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  Why not? Why has he got to play more than 30 games before the playoffs?

• 31:08Bill Simmons?

  It should be like a TV show where one of the stars just isn't on every episode.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 31:13Bill Simmons?

  They just kind of, it's a 22 episode season and they're just on 10 episodes, but they still get to be in the opening credits.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:19Bill Simmons?

  All right, so I have Texans minus three and Rams minus three. You have Rams minus three. What's your second pick?

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Um, this one's a great 50 50 game and I'm fascinated to see how it plays out. I'm gonna go ahead and take Cincinnati at home, laying only the two and a half against Jacksonville. And it's, there's two, two pieces to it. The first piece is, um, I feel like Joe Burrow and his weapons haven't gotten entirely on the same page yet. They're not completely firing on all cylinders. But I think that this Jacksonville, um, they have a, a pass funnel defense, which is, you know, part of, of their thing. They're very good against the rush.

• 32:05Speaker 01

  Um, but they're okay with, with teams throwing. Um, and I, I think that this is a spot where Cincinnati comes in and we start to see those guys on the same page. The other thing about Cincinnati that I like is their ability to generate some pressure and the numbers are pretty dramatic when you're looking at,

• 32:29Speaker 01

  um, uh, the beautiful one under pressure. Lawrence, his splits under pressure versus clean.

• 32:35Bill Simmons?

  Just call him the beautiful one?

• 32:37Speaker 01

  I mean, with the, the luscious locks and everything.

• 32:40Bill Simmons?

  I didn't realize they were luscious.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  They're not? You don't think they are?

• 32:44Bill Simmons?

  He looks like a professional wrestler from the eighties.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  So we haven't really seen him against pressure, um, Lawrence, you know, Cleveland didn't really get to him. New England blitz, but they didn't get any pressure out of the blitzes.

• 32:56Bill Simmons?

  Defense is a little banged up too.

• 32:58Speaker 01

  And then Denver in that second half, especially they got to him and he was four for 13 on drop backs when, under pressure, um, and much better when he was clean. So I'm, I'm sort of, part of this wager is on the idea that the Bengals defense is going to be able to, you know, they, they run, they just rush four man. They put them down, but they generate their top 10 in pressure with that four man front. So I like the idea of Cincy getting some pressure on Lawrence. Um, and I like the idea of the offense getting going and I'm fine. Two and a half seems like a fair number.

• 33:33Bill Simmons?

  It's funny. I, I had the Jags as one of my almost picks and I didn't like the plus two and a half. If it was three, I would have really thought about it.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 33:40Bill Simmons?

  I watched that entire Bengal Steelers game last week. I think you can throw in the Bengals. And they had a lot of trouble over the middle with tight ends and running backs coming out of the backfield. They got beaten deep a couple of times and it feels like to me the Jags have the perfect personnel to attack them.

• 34:00Speaker 01

  They do. Three very good receivers and a very good tight end.

• 34:04Bill Simmons?

  It's a classic. If you like the Jags, it's, they're coming off a big, awesome win. The Bengals are coming off a loss. You never want to take the team coming off the awesome win against the team coming after the annoying loss.

• 34:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:18Bill Simmons?

  But I do like the matchup for them and Cincinnati's defense, they gave up 27 to Baker and they gave up 30 to Aaron Rodgers.

• 34:28Bill Simmons?

  So it's a little bit of a, are, are we sure they have a good defense? Uh, I know some of the stats have been favorable, especially against the run, but anyway, I stayed away from that. My next one's gonna be a tease. And it's the most chalk tease imaginable and I just gotta do it because, uh, I think maybe twice a month, there's gonna be one where it's just like, I just feel really good about this. First part, Seattle is minus seven against, uh, Herbert and the Chargers.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 35:02Bill Simmons?

  I love this cause Seattle's coming off a loss.

• 35:06Bill Simmons?

  If Seattle had won last week, I think I'd be more nervous about this because the Chargers about to go on four. But man, Seattle coming off a loss, Darnold, who we all made the mistake last week of forgetting that he just hadn't played football and that was being thrown. I kind of wish Locke had played last week. I would have felt much better about the bet.

• 35:26Speaker 01

  I handicapped, um, this game as though Locke was going to play.

• 35:30Bill Simmons?

  Last week. Yeah.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  Last week, uh, on, on our Ringer Wise Guys program on Friday, my wise wager was Seattle to win the first quarter. And when Darnold came out, I was like, oh, I'm, I'm, I'm dead. And then I was especially dead because Jadaian Price put the ball right on the floor on the 20 yard line and Washington got a touchdown off of that. Um, and that bet was, was dead, which I was kind of fine to, to, to live with because Washington.

• 35:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Cause your team had a great win. Your team might be alive for the season.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:02Bill Simmons?

  But I like that they're coming off a loss. They know that they have real running back issues now.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:07Bill Simmons?

  Which means that they spent the week trying to figure out an actual plan for the running back issues. Charbonne is not coming back yet. Um,

• 36:14Speaker 01

  Emmanuel Wilson touches are fine.

• 36:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And I'm sure they have some, some wrinkles for that. So you have Herbert on the road. You have an exceptionally loud crowd going against an offense that doesn't seem like it knows what it's doing yet. That feels like it's still learning all the signals, all the movement, everything. Herbert's a mess. They have a bad offensive line and, um, just a weird offense in general.

• 36:42Bill Simmons?

  And the big thing to me is Seattle is really gonna lose back to back games to Washington, a game that they probably should have won. And then they're gonna blow a Chargers game at home. I don't see it. So I'm bringing them down to minus one. And sadly I am teasing them with the Buffalo Bills down to minus one against the New England Patriots.

• 37:00Bill Simmons?

  I think this game will be rock bottom for the Pats. I, as you know, I took the Jags last week. I did not think the Patriots were gonna win last week. I think they're even in worse shape this week with a ton of pressure on May, who's been the talk of the town, him and the Red Sox. What's wrong with him? Has been all week, all anyone's talking about. Um, AJ Brown's not back yet. Their offensive line, they're on their third right guard. The backup for Unwenu got hurt last year. He's out now. Um, I think the middle of the offensive line is really rough. I don't think they're gonna be able to run the ball even against the Bills. They really don't have a deep threat at all. They don't have anybody that I think May trusts. Um, the two tight end offense with Henry

• 37:42Bill Simmons?

  and Raridan, the rookie, Raridan got hurt, so they can't do that. And I just don't, I don't think they're gonna be able to match points with Buffalo. And that's before going in all the defensive issues, injuries. I don't, to me, this isn't like, uh, our season's over if we lose this game because I think they're supposed to lose this game and I think they will.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:01Bill Simmons?

  And I think next week is when you start figuring out, you'd be one and three. You get AJ Brown back. Where are we? Okay. Time to, time to kick ourselves in the ass and get going. I just don't think they can match points with Josh Allen, a guy who has owned them over the years. So Seahawks minus one, Bills minus one. Both of them have to win six point tees, which is minus one 10 on FanDuel. And that's what I'm going with.

• 38:25Speaker 01

  Um, I'll go ahead and do my tees as well because I also have Seattle as one of my legs.

• 38:31Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  My second leg, I've been really going back and forth. I kind of want to do the Falcons because it sets up properly for the plus eight and a half. You get through all of the key numbers that way.

• 38:46Bill Simmons?

  Don't do the Falcons.

• 38:48Speaker 01

  I, I, I don't, but right. It's, it's the Katrina thing.

• 38:52Bill Simmons?

  It's the Katrina game. It's a stay away.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  And the state, right. That's where I'm, that's where I'm gonna end up landing on it. So I, I'm gonna violate the teaser rules a tiny bit, um, in terms of the, the, the math that supports the play.

• 39:05Bill Simmons?

  Are you going through the zero?

• 39:07Speaker 01

  No, I'm gonna back, I'm gonna back Washington getting nine and a half and take Washington from three and a half and go all the way up to, to nine and a half. I don't think Washington is gonna lose by 10 to the Colts. Both.

• 39:18Bill Simmons?

  So this is the London game. You are breaking a cardinal rule of teases.

• 39:22Speaker 01

  I'm breaking a lot of rules.

• 39:23Bill Simmons?

  Putting Europe slash London in a tease.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  I'm breaking every rule.

• 39:29Bill Simmons?

  It's, if you'd put that with Kyler Murray, I think you would get electrocuted.

• 39:35Bill Simmons?

  Hit by lightning bolt.

• 39:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. I don't, I mean, the case is both teams coming off of, you know, really important wins for, for their seasons, both potentially season saving wins. Not, neither team has an advantage in terms of like the, the travel circumstances. The spot is the same for both teams. And I think Washington, under the numbers, really good rush defense, one of the best teams in the NFL in rush defense. And if the Colts can't get explosives against the Washington secondary, cause Pierce is gonna be out again, then I like Washington within 10 points. That, that's the thesis for it.

• 40:13Bill Simmons?

  I like it. I wish it was actually 10 points.

• 40:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 40:18Bill Simmons?

  Nine and a half. I'm not sure what that's getting you.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  I got, I understand.

• 40:22Bill Simmons?

  It got you over eight.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 40:24Bill Simmons?

  So basically you don't think they're gonna be beaten by two stores. All right. So you have Seahawks. And then you have Washington.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  Down to one in Washington. Yeah.

• 40:33Bill Simmons?

  Plus nine and a half. Okay.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  I, I, I'm acknowledging, I'm conceding that the math is not supportive of a three and a half up to nine and a half.

• 40:42Bill Simmons?

  I can't believe I'm doing this third pick and you're gonna laugh.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 40:45Bill Simmons?

  But I do think I'm gonna grab this number while it's the number before it comes down.

• 40:51Bill Simmons?

  I am going to take the Tampa Bay Bucks yet again.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:54Bill Simmons?

  Plus three and a half.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  Fine.

• 40:55Bill Simmons?

  Against Green Bay. This will be the fourth week in a row. They might single-handedly kill my Ringer 107.

• 41:03Bill Simmons?

  This Daniels, so Pelissero and I are going to talk about Daniels in the next segment a bunch. This Daniels for Mayfield, if Mayfield was the QB, I think the line would be Bucks minus one and a half.

• 41:15Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 41:15Bill Simmons?

  Right? Do you think the Bucks would be favored with Mayfield with how banged up the Packers are all over the place?

• 41:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:20Bill Simmons?

  Their offensive line issues.

• 41:22Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 41:22Bill Simmons?

  Their defense. I just think the Bucks are favored. So they're saying, they're basically saying this is a five-point swing if you're operating under the premise Bucks minus one and a half. Now Bucks plus three and a half. And I don't think Baker Mayfield, the way he was playing is worth five points. I just don't.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  Well.

• 41:40Bill Simmons?

  Tampa, Tampa is 32nd in EPA in offense right now. They have, by EPA, the worst offense in the league. If anything, Daniels' ability to run for his life is probably going to be better than Mayfield's. There's some other Daniel stuff that I'll cover when I talk about it with Tom, but 13 straight Tampa Bay non-covers if they don't cover this.

• 41:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:59Bill Simmons?

  This is really a bet against Green Bay, who I don't think is a good football team. Um, I think they're closer to being a bad football team. They have two receivers left. They have Tucker Kraft who's not 100%.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:11Bill Simmons?

  I think they have the worst running backs in the league.

• 42:15Bill Simmons?

  I don't think they can block. I don't think they have a pass rush. I think you can move the ball up and down on them and this feels like a three-point game to me and I get the hook out of it. I'm in Tampa. I don't know what the weather is going to be. Hopefully it'll be nice and hot, make Green Bay tired. But I think Tampa can cover this and maybe even win. And I'm not scared with Daniels.

• 42:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:35Bill Simmons?

  What's he gonna do? Like turn the ball over and fumble it like Baker Mayfield did? It's not gonna be any different.

• 42:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, some of this, I'm, I'm interested to see a part of the thesis this season for why I, I liked Tampa Bay and thought they were going to be successful is the offensive coordinator, Zach Robinson, who's out of the McVay tree.

• 42:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  And, and was the architect of an offense that really did work in Atlanta when they had stability at quarterback in Kirk Cousins. Like the second half of that season, the offense was not the problem. It was game management and some, some defensive lapses for Atlanta that kept them out of the playoffs. But, um, for whatever reason, Robinson and Baker and yeah, I, you know, I'm not, the, the offensive line hasn't been good.

• 43:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's been the weird one for me that their offensive line can't block, at least the way they, we thought.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Right. I mean, but we just haven't seen any signs of it. They can't establish the run with Bucky. Um, but I do like the idea of a backup quarterback. I think there's some sneaky good angles, um, some trends out there that, you know, where it makes it really hard for a team to, to plan for a brand new quarterback. And this, this kid's undrafted. I mean, there, there isn't, you know.

• 43:46Bill Simmons?

  He was in college for six years.

• 43:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. So he's got plenty of experience. Um.

• 43:53Bill Simmons?

  Well, I, I talk about this in the next segment with Tom, but, um, they love him.

• 43:59Speaker 01

  Great.

• 43:59Bill Simmons?

  I don't think they understood what they had was the undrafted guy. And then they thought he was going against Jake Browning for the backup job. And by the end of training camp, they're like, that's our guy.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 44:09Bill Simmons?

  We're, we're in on Jalen Daniels.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  Well, I, I'll have this on the Ringer Wise Guys. I have him over 34 and a half rushing yards. It's one of my favorite bets of the entire week. I think he can run, run, run the football.

• 44:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I like this as it'll be something weird will happen in the last five minutes to one of these teams, but I think it's a close game. Hopefully it'll be nice and humid. I, the Packers, two receivers left, plus Kraft coming back and no running game at all. Feels perfect for Tampa. They'll blitz the hell out of them and, um, and shut down the run.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 44:47Bill Simmons?

  What's your last pick?

• 44:49Speaker 01

  Um, gonna go ahead and offer up a nice glass of settle down juice to the Las Vegas Raiders.

• 44:55Bill Simmons?

  Uh.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  Gonna go ahead and lay the four and a half with Kansas City. Um, it's a little bit of a rich number, but you know, based on what we've seen out of Kansas City thus far, um, in terms of their success rate, their ability to run the football. And, uh, you know, surprisingly, the defense has been now, it may, maybe it's not that big of a surprise because the schedule has been favorable for, for Kansas City, like your defensive.

• 45:25Bill Simmons?

  No, but then, but the young guys, we didn't know and the young guys have been good.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 45:29Bill Simmons?

  So they answered that question. We didn't know if they were going to be good.

• 45:31Speaker 01

  They were good against Denver. Uh, they were good against Indianapolis and they did exactly what they were supposed to do against Miami. Um, I like, uh, that this, um, situation here where the, the Raiders, so their numbers are inflated by playing the Chargers and the Dolphins, which kind of makes sense.

• 45:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 45:57Speaker 01

  But I think this is a whole different cat, a whole different ball of wax. And, and Mahomes and, and these guys are ready to serve up some settle down juice. I have Kansas City laying the four and a half as my fourth and final for this week.

• 46:13Bill Simmons?

  I like it and I respect it. I test drove the Raiders at plus four and a half for a little bit. The two games I came the closest on, other than Jags plus two and a half, which I, I think if that gets to three, that could be my fifth pick. But, um, Raiders plus four and a half and Saints minus two and a half in the Katrina game. And I don't think the Falcons are good. But the reason I couldn't get there with the Raiders is actually a little different than what you laid out.

• 46:36Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 46:37Bill Simmons?

  I wish this game was in Kansas City.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 46:42Bill Simmons?

  I think there's gonna be like 25,000 Chiefs fans there.

• 46:45Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 46:45Bill Simmons?

  And.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  In Vegas.

• 46:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I think it's, I think it's gonna be a really lively atmosphere, but I also think there's gonna be a lot of Chiefs fans. Chiefs are the most popular team in the league. Nobody knew the Raiders were gonna be good during the off-season, right? If you're a Chiefs fan, this is a great trip and I just think they're gonna have a good crowd. And I think, I don't like when the Chiefs are on the road in a location where they have a lot of fans going against them. You feel stupid in the second quarter, like Kelsey happens, Kelsey play over the middle. You just hear like a loud noise. You're like, the Chiefs aren't even at home. What's happening?

• 47:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:19Bill Simmons?

  Um, I think that I, I do think this Raiders thing is, is pretty real though.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  Oh, no, no doubt about it. I don't mean to, to be throwing shade.

• 47:28Bill Simmons?

  But you're right. This is a whole other level. And I think the Chiefs have a bye next week. This is a classic. We kind of fucked around in Miami. Let's lay the smackdown in Vegas. Let's go to the bye. We'll be four and O, feeling good about ourselves. So, yeah, I looked at that. The other one I thought about with a tease, the Lions Panthers over.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 47:49Bill Simmons?

  Um, I got burned last week on the under on Steelers Bengals, thinking that was like the lock of the year. I just had bad luck with over-unders, but Panthers with both cornerbacks out, the Lions with no secondary to begin with. And being able to tease that down to 41 and a half on a Monday night and just, you know, 24 to 20, I win. 23 to 20, 23 19. Basically, somebody just has to get in the mid twenties and I win.

• 48:15Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 48:16Bill Simmons?

  Or the Lions get to 27. So I thought that was spicy. And then the, the, the other one I stared at for a second was Washington plus three and a half in London. But I wasn't dumb enough to bet on the London game like you.

• 48:31Bill Simmons?

  Cause I went, you know what it was? I wasn't gonna wake up at 6:55 on Sunday morning

• 48:37Bill Simmons?

  and turn on the TV and it's like Colts 10, Washington nothing, we'll be back. And I'm just like, oh, I already lost. I just woke up. I didn't have any coffee yet.

• 48:45Speaker 01

  I'm so prepared for it. I'm so prepared for it. I know.

• 48:48Bill Simmons?

  Well, in the East Coast, it's easier.

• 48:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I understand, but it'll be the same thing. I'll be in, you know, pajamas. I will have my coffee and it'll be first quarter.

• 48:58Bill Simmons?

  So to recap, well, it's fun when it's your own team.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  I know.

• 49:01Bill Simmons?

  Plus you might get, uh, you might get your guy JD back pretty soon.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  He could be back.

• 49:05Bill Simmons?

  Unbelievable.

• 49:06Speaker 01

  I do think there's a decent chance this guy right here.

• 49:10Bill Simmons?

  So my picks Texans minus three, Rams minus three, Bucks plus three and a half, and a tease with Seahawks minus one, Buffalo minus one. You have Rams minus three, Bengals minus two and a half, Chiefs minus four and a half. And then a tease with Seahawks minus one, Washington plus nine and a half. I kind of like these picks. I can't believe I went back to the well on the Texans and the Bucks again. But that's what happens on Ringer 107. It was brought to you by FanDuel. Download the app now to find all our Ringer 107 picks. Make this your most rewarding season. FanDuel Player Game, odds subject to change. The other thing that happened today was Jalen Durin signed.

• 49:45Speaker 01

  Oh, I missed it. With the Pistons?

• 49:48Bill Simmons?

  Guess what? He ended up taking the five-year $200 million.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  He listened to the pod. You and Goldsberry laid it out for him very clearly.

• 49:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it was a great offer.

• 49:56Speaker 01

  His agent listened to the pod, maybe.

• 49:59Bill Simmons?

  You're gonna be one of the top five paid centers in the league. Take the offer.

• 50:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. What are the economics of the league? What direction are they headed in?

• 50:07Bill Simmons?

  Well, the question is, did he take the offer basically to force the trade down? Or did he take the offer and it's like, oh, it's forgiven. I've taken your offer.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, it, it, to force the trade, where's he going? If there was a trade out there, everybody had plenty of time to, to step up to the plate and make offers. Uh, the, the most compelling trade I, I heard was the one that, that you guys cooked up, you and KG, that Atlanta team. That Atlanta team, by the way, just keep an eye on how they continue to build assets. That Sala. That's the, that's, that's a GM who knows what, Ansia Sale, Sale, however you say his name.

• 50:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 50:48Speaker 01

  Not, not related to Robert, but last name the same. He is building stuff. Keep an eye on them. Just keep watching how they, you know, they're slowly, you know, this guy for that guy. That grabbing two guys at, at very low price from Oklahoma City, because Oklahoma City's rotating players out. Really shrewd.

• 51:09Bill Simmons?

  We need to, we need a Netflix poll. Is Jalen Duren worth $200 million for five years? I'm gonna see that before we wrap it up and go to a break. We had a poll already. Will the Browns make the playoffs? And no was 60%.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  I agree with no. I agree with that.

• 51:27Bill Simmons?

  Honestly thought the no should have been higher. So we're doing, uh, we're doing the over-unders with Zach in a week and a half.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  Let's go.

• 51:33Bill Simmons?

  And I know you've been doing some homework as a lie.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  Doing some homework. You know I have been.

• 51:39Bill Simmons?

  Can I spoil one team that I like for you?

• 51:41Speaker 01

  I'm listening.

• 51:43Bill Simmons?

  Cause I know you like the same team, because we've known each other since 1988.

• 51:48Bill Simmons?

  Memphis is 29 and a half.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:51Bill Simmons?

  It's too low.

• 51:55Bill Simmons?

  That was the one that jumped out to me in the West. I was like, oh, 29 and a half. There's no tanking this year.

• 52:02Speaker 01

  That's so.

• 52:03Bill Simmons?

  That team's gonna play hard every game.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  That's the challenge. This is the thing with, with, with a team like Memphis. The reason that we like Memphis is because they, they have their guys. They've done an amazing job of getting their kind of guys all under the tent in, in. They got rid of guys that are not their guys and they have a whole bunch of guys that are their kind of guys. They fit the grit and grind.

• 52:25Bill Simmons?

  Verno's kind of guy. They, I think Verno's in the front office now. It's like, would you like this guy? And Verno's like, I would. I would like Cam Boozer.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  But to your observation, 30 wins in this league now is, is not, you don't just coast to 30. You gotta go win. I mean.

• 52:42Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  Who, who's, who's gonna suck in the West? We know that the Clippers are gonna suck, suck, suck, suck. The Kings are probably gonna suck. Uh, and, and who else in the West?

• 52:55Bill Simmons?

  The Kings aren't gonna suck from a comedy standpoint.

• 52:59Bill Simmons?

  They're already giving us nuggets left and right. They're giving us magic.

• 53:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:05Bill Simmons?

  I know you like the light skins too, House.

• 53:07Speaker 01

  So annoying.

• 53:08Bill Simmons?

  With it, what, what did that lady say?

• 53:10Speaker 01

  I don't remember.

• 53:11Bill Simmons?

  The Ben Simmons, Zach Levine. We never, and it, it kinda went away.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  Good job. I'm glad. Let, let's let it go away. Let it die. Those, those, those girls didn't do anything wrong. They're just talking their truths.

• 53:22Bill Simmons?

  Hot Mikes. Watch out for the hot Mikes immediately.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  If you and I on hot Mikes.

• 53:26Bill Simmons?

  Oh, my God.

• 53:27Speaker 01

  This is why we can't, I mean.

• 53:29Bill Simmons?

  This is when Gahal blackmails us.

• 53:30Speaker 01

  I got so close.

• 53:32Bill Simmons?

  Um, oh, Gahal's gonna have the results for the Jalen Duren poll. What is your prediction? For the $200 million? Oh, is Jalen Duren worth the $200 million? No, 82%.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  People, America is waiting. It's, the answer is no.

• 53:51Bill Simmons?

  So was Memphis your favorite? Cause we're gonna do more stuff. We might change our minds, but that was, did you have a team that jumped out to you like that?

• 53:59Speaker 01

  Uh, not yet. No, I'm still, I'm still working through it. I mean.

• 54:03Bill Simmons?

  My other one was Toronto, but I gotta do the mental gymnastics with them more.

• 54:07Speaker 01

  I'm not there yet with Toronto. I'm, I'm, I might be on an island with Toronto. Go look at how they did against teams with winning records.

• 54:15Bill Simmons?

  I know, but now they have Kawhi Leonard and Murray Boiles is a year older.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  Congratulations.

• 54:19Bill Simmons?

  Maybe Jakob Pertle won't be stumbling around with a bad back.

• 54:23Speaker 01

  I mean, this is the conundrum of Kawhi. We're gonna see. Um, I, I mean, I'm not here yet. I'm not, I'm not talking shit about Toronto. And Toronto made me so much money last year. I was the, one of the most bullish.

• 54:34Bill Simmons?

  I know.

• 54:34Speaker 01

  Of our panel on Toronto last year. I'm, I'm already way over the top with the Pacers, so I don't need to keep talking about the Pacers. I think the Pacers are still being slept on.

• 54:44Bill Simmons?

  Can I give you one bet that I liked where there's actually been action and it's dropped a little bit?

• 54:48Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 54:50Bill Simmons?

  Luka Doncic to average 36 plus points per game.

• 54:55Bill Simmons?

  It was like plus 450 a few days ago and it's down to plus 340.

• 55:01Speaker 01

  How many games to be eligible for that? Does he have to play?

• 55:05Bill Simmons?

  It's.

• 55:05Speaker 01

  There's a minimum number of games to be eligible. It's not.

• 55:08Bill Simmons?

  It says the player must take the court in a minimum of one NBA regular season game.

• 55:14Speaker 01

  What?

• 55:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 55:15Speaker 01

  Oh, to average. Yeah. Okay. I see. So if he plays, wait a minute though, that doesn't make sense. If he plays 30.

• 55:22Bill Simmons?

  50 games and averages 36 points a game, you win the bet.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  If you, if, what if he plays 30 games? It has, it can't be that, that.

• 55:29Bill Simmons?

  I'm just reading what it says.

• 55:31Speaker 01

  There has to be a threshold. You can't play 30 games and average 36 and win the bet.

• 55:36Bill Simmons?

  Uh, it seems like he can. We'll find out from our Fanduel friends, but, um, I was trying to think, what is a realistic number? For him for points in my head, cause he's always around 33, but now they have a team that's built around him even more. That's probably gonna play a little faster. And it's, I had him in my head around 35, so 36 doesn't feel like a stretch. To average 34 a game is minus 105.

• 56:00Speaker 01

  I don't wanna mess with that. That, that tells you exactly, that market is so sharp. It tells you exactly where the number is.

• 56:05Bill Simmons?

  Plus 340, I thought was pretty intriguing. Uh, Yanis average 32 a game is plus 290, which seems outrageous.

• 56:13Speaker 01

  Nah. Um, that doesn't make sense.

• 56:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And there's some other ones, but, um, but that was Luca 36 a game. Only a couple of guys have done it.

• 56:22Speaker 01

  Be great. I'll root for it.

• 56:24Bill Simmons?

  MJ did it.

• 56:26Speaker 01

  Here's part of why I think it makes sense. I'm, I might be on an island with this. I think the Lakers are gonna suck. I don't think they're gonna be good. They can't defend. They're in the wrong conference for what they're trying to do.

• 56:38Bill Simmons?

  I knew they were in trouble when they were talking about how important Matisse Thybulle's gonna be. I was like, oh, at that stage already? That's usually February.

• 56:46Speaker 01

  So him getting 30.

• 56:48Bill Simmons?

  That in September?

• 56:49Speaker 01

  He, he, if he's, if he goes nuts scoring wise, it does take some of the stink off the situation, but they didn't, they, they, their team building was, uh, below par. That's the way I'll put it for, for now. I'll save my real comments for later.

• 57:03Bill Simmons?

  Well, their defense seems like it's hinging completely on Kessler, who played five games last year.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  I mean, good luck.

• 57:11Bill Simmons?

  He'd have to play 22, 2300 minutes for them to.

• 57:14Speaker 01

  Good effing luck. Good effing luck.

• 57:18Bill Simmons?

  You know, the favorite is to an MVP?

• 57:20Speaker 01

  It's gotta be Wemby.

• 57:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, two to one.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, makes sense.

• 57:24Bill Simmons?

  Lucas five to one. I personally think Lucas should be the favorite. Cause he's never won it and he's gonna have a giant stat year.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  I'm sick of betting on Luca to win MVP every single year and, and then losing that money.

• 57:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, see, this is the great thing about having a vote. I don't have to lose money on the, uh, award votes.

• 57:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Wemby's got defensive player of the year is minus 330. And to make the all D team is minus 500. So those are basically just, you're betting on him to get injured.

• 57:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, 65 games. That's it. That's exactly it. Will he play 65 games? That's the proposition. Minus 330.

• 57:58Bill Simmons?

  Six man of the year right now? Mitchell is plus 500 and Dylan Harper is seven to one. Like, we actually might have good six men this year. Simons is 15 to one. Io's 15 to one. DeRozan's 18 to one. Peyton Pritchard's 20 to one, which should be the, I know, well, he's, they're gonna turn the whole second unit to him. Pritchard's 20 to one would be the other one I would look at for that, cause I think they're gonna bring him off the bench.

• 58:22Speaker 01

  That would make sense for Celtics.

• 58:24Bill Simmons?

  And then coach of the year.

• 58:29Bill Simmons?

  Sean Sweeney 12 to one on the Magic.

• 58:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:32Bill Simmons?

  Jumped out to me.

• 58:33Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 58:33Bill Simmons?

  He's replacing somebody who was not a good coach, which is usually the recipe.

• 58:37Speaker 01

  They're, they, they are telling the world exactly what they think about their situation. They've brought back the whole goddamn team.

• 58:46Bill Simmons?

  Right. They're basically like, it was the coach's fault. Yeah.

• 58:48Speaker 01

  We're gonna run this shit back and we have a guy that we trust. Now, the problem is they have been a below average offense for 15 seasons now. And Sweeney's a defensive guy, so get Desmond Bain open looks and, and beg him to knock them down. Get Suggs to, to, to get his three point shooting back and then we can talk.

• 59:13Bill Simmons?

  Nick Nurse is 14 to one, both for coach of the year and to be thrown under the bus in January with an anonymous piece, but from somebody.

• 59:22Speaker 01

  That's two to one under the bus.

• 59:26Bill Simmons?

  Sources, anonymous sources say the team is frustrated with Nick Nurse.

• 59:30Speaker 01

  Jesus.

• 59:31Bill Simmons?

  Spoelstra is also 12 to one. The leader of all these bets is the Raptors coach and the Jazz coach, Will Hardy.

• 59:36Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 59:37Bill Simmons?

  Are both 10 to one, but it doesn't seem like there's a consensus for, uh, for that one. And then I talked about this a little with Goldsberry, but rookie of the year, Boozer is the favorite. It's Boozer, Wilson, Peterson and DeBansa. Are all three to one, four to one range. And your guy's fourth, just cause it doesn't seem like he's gonna have the ball as much as some other guys.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  Totally fair. Not, not gonna knock it. If Washington sees a way as their season progresses to feed him and to build him up so that he can get rookie of the year. I mean, I will, this, the, the two, it's hard to compare them, but I'm not going to.

• 1:00:13Bill Simmons?

  Uh oh. Are you regretting?

• 1:00:15Speaker 01

  Quiet about, no. Cooper Flag winning rookie of the year last year. That was a fucking abomination. It, what, what, what Dallas did, you know, in, in, in bringing him back and getting him a 50 piece at the very end of the season. I know he's a teenager. It was impressive. It was the lowest leverage situation imaginable. Charlotte had a genuine jump, a significant jump into actually competitive basketball because of Khan Canipal. And for, for Cooper Flag, history will always show that Cooper Flag won the rookie of the year.

• 1:00:52Speaker 01

  So what I'm saying is if Washington's season goes a little wacky because AD gets hurt, because Trey gets hurt, whatever. And there's 35 games left, then the thing they're gonna play for is DeBansa to win rookie of the fucking year. And they'll, they'll, they'll try and get him.

• 1:01:11Bill Simmons?

  Compelling case.

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  They'll try and get him to that, to that.

• 1:01:15Bill Simmons?

  Uh, I voted for Khan, but I rooted for both of them because it was Khan, my guy, or Flag, who's gonna be on the 2030 Celtics. So both of those, I root for both of those guys.

• 1:01:29Bill Simmons?

  Future Boston Celtic Cooper Flag. I don't wanna vote against him.

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  You'll have cap room, cause Paul George's contract will be off the books.

• 1:01:36Bill Simmons?

  Listen, the buzz, the buzz with Paul George has been great. Great vet in the locker room. Really looking forward to playing off Jason Tatum.

• 1:01:44Speaker 01

  When, when, when are you gonna give me permission to start calling him, uh, Beta Tatum? Is it, is like, how many games in after, after, you know, how far along?

• 1:01:56Bill Simmons?

  I, how about, how about never? They, well, he won a title. What did Bradley Mills win? Nothing. Bradley Mills already hurt.

• 1:02:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, but they did win a title.

• 1:02:04Bill Simmons?

  Before he took Chris Paul's number.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  You know who's not on that? You know who, who won finals MVP? Yeah. Not on the team anymore.

• 1:02:13Bill Simmons?

  Jalen Brown should not have won finals MVP. That was ridiculous.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:02:16Bill Simmons?

  One of my things that I would change about the NBA is more than five people should vote on the finals MVP. You should not be able to win finals MVP by a three to two vote.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  Fair enough.

• 1:02:26Bill Simmons?

  Have, have 15 people. You have a million reporters there. Um, are you gonna ask anybody to eat a fat dick or should we go?

• 1:02:35Speaker 01

  I don't have anybody this week.

• 1:02:36Bill Simmons?

  It's kinda your signature. I think you, you stumbled into the signature segment and now you're, you're just gonna let it go?

• 1:02:42Speaker 01

  You don't wanna overdo it. You don't, you don't wanna, I'm right now, we gotta save it. Like if, when I'm really upset, uh, I'll, I'll break it up. I did call, I, I thought long and hard about offering, uh, giving Jim Harbaugh an invitation to eat a fat dick after the performance of, of the Chargers.

• 1:03:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  That, that's great, but he's like a grandpa. He's a mouth breather. He's standing on the sidelines like this.

• 1:03:07Speaker 02

  And he's like, I think we're gonna go for it. It's fourth and 10, there's five minutes left. We've got all our timeouts right midfield. I think it's one score game. I think we're gonna go for it. I mean, I don't, I kind of keep making up this accent that he doesn't possess. But it's my, my, my best version of a mouth breather moron. Uh, what the fuck are you doing?

• 1:03:31Bill Simmons?

  It sounds like you're offering him a big fat one.

• 1:03:34Speaker 02

  It was seven and a half. The cupboard was sitting there staring me in the face. It's like I agonize long and hard. You're really gonna just boot your season this way? You can't get on the same page with your, with your, you know, Mikey mixtape, the, the DJ doctor? And, and run plays that are coherent with a, with a, a game plan, third down, a run, fourth down. If you're gonna go for it on fourth down, then let's have the plays make sense. Fourth and 10 with five fucking minutes left. All right. Hey, Jim Harbaugh, please go eat a fat dick.

• 1:04:08Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that's great. I wish you could offer that same thing to Chad Tracy for taking out my starter and back to back Yankee games before the end of the fifth inning. For reasons that remain unclear.

• 1:04:19Speaker 02

  Didn't they extend him?

• 1:04:21Bill Simmons?

  Oh, they sure did. I'm gonna be talking about that with my dad later.

• 1:04:24Speaker 02

  Have him in your life for a little while.

• 1:04:26Bill Simmons?

  All right, we're gonna take a break. We're gonna get to Tom Pellicero and then my dad and I are gonna talk Boston Red Sox. You'll be on Ringer Wise Guys tomorrow.

• 1:04:34Speaker 02

  Let's go, let's go. Get them all up.

• 1:04:36Bill Simmons?

  All right, taking a break and then Pellicero. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. FanDuel has a new one this Sunday. It's called Touchdown Tally. And this is pretty fun. Basically, you want touchdowns everywhere, all day, because the more touchdowns scored across the NFL, the more 100% profit boosts you can unlock. It's like a game. 30 touchdowns gets you one, 50 gets you two. And if Sunday gets completely ridiculous and hits 70, you can unlock.

• 1:05:04Bill Simmons?

  That's right, three 100% profit boosts. So TD picks, look, Lamar Jackson going against some bad defense, that sounds good. Jameer Gibbs, who's on, on pace to have like 500 touches and 35 TDs or something, grab him. Parker Washington on the Jaguars, I like that. I like Puka Nakua against Philadelphia in a comeback game. I always like how the Rams play against Philadelphia. So there's four. This Sunday, we're rooting for one thing, touchdowns, a lot of them. Doesn't matter what team, just get across the goal line. Check out Touchdown Tally on FanDuel. Make this your most rewarding season ever. 21 plus select states or 18 plus DC or Wyoming. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com.

• 1:05:46Bill Simmons?

  Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by 7-Up. Okay, here's a case for conspiracy bill. Let's bring them in. Ever notice lemon is everywhere? From lemon recipes to lemon scented cleaning supplies. Hmm, when it comes to lemon lime sodas. Why is lemon always first? There's a reason. A shadowy organization called the I Lemonati that's been padding the stats and keeping big lemon in the lead for decades. Yeah, I studied this. But the sip is about to be flipped.

• 1:06:26Bill Simmons?

  7-Up fighting back, swapping lemon lime for their new lime lemon soda. That's right, lime lemon. Now lime comes first. 7-Up flip the sip. Let's go. Tom Pelissero is here. He is just scooping everybody left and right. Joey Porter trade this week, which seemed like one of those logical trades that might happen. And then it actually happened, especially after Cowboys last. We're gonna open up a six pack. We did this last week, we're doing this this week. And also, we should mention you have the newsletter, The Sweep, which has been excellent. And you're on the Ringer NFL Show as well. First thing on the six pack, Cowboys.

• 1:07:07Bill Simmons?

  Now, have they officially spent more assets than they got back from Micah Parsons in that trade on other defensive players? Where are we? Where's the seesaw?

• 1:07:16Speaker 02

  It depends how you count it, because the last actual pick, I believe, from that trade was in the, the Malachi Lawrence pick that they made in the draft this year. I mean, you're talking about moving two picks for Quinnen Williams, which was a second, and then a first in the following year. And then you had, obviously, they traded a pick for Logan Wilson, who's no longer with the team. Now you're trading for Joey Porter, they traded for Rashawn Gary. This is, I mean, the past 12 months, or whatever you want to call it, 10, 11 months. I've never seen anything like it in terms of completely making over one side of the football through trades, you know? Jerry said it, though, if you remember that press conference after Mike, it was like, oh, all the stuff we can do with the additional resources. Well, they, they've done it. They have turned that into a lot of different players.

• 1:08:01Speaker 02

  And now, you know, the second round pick they gave up in the Porter trade is out in 2028. So once again, you're going well beyond the point at which you might even not know that that guy's even gonna be on your team.

• 1:08:12Bill Simmons?

  And yet they're not as crazy as what the Rams did. It's kind of like the discount version of all the assets the Rams gave up. I guess the question for me is, like, first of all, who else was in on the Porter thing? It seemed like his draft pick was second round was probably the range, but was there, were they even competing against anybody?

• 1:08:30Speaker 02

  It was really just the Cowboys. You know, there were other teams that had inquired. His agents were kind of shopping him around over the past several weeks. Like, the chronology on this is, they had negotiations going back through camp. He's saying he's got a back injury, didn't practice. You know, the first time they saw Joey Porter Jr. in pads with this new staff was like last Thursday. So he didn't practice at all. Well, then they got the organizational policy. If you get to week one, that's it. There's no more negotiations. So at that point, it was either Porter was gonna sit, he was gonna play for the Steelers, or he was gonna have to go someplace else. And what he told them was, if I'm gonna play this thing out, I'd rather go someplace else.

• 1:09:10Speaker 02

  Pittsburgh was still, because they didn't have the level of offer that they wanted to move him, they were still trying to ramp him up. So last week, they went through the week, they thought, hey, this might be it. Go and play against the Bengals, got to the end of the week, he's not quite ready. And they had had him, they listed him as limited, but you have to do that because he was playing scout teams so they could test him against DK Metcalf and Michael Pittman. This week, he, you know, they didn't practice much because it's a short week, but on Wednesday it was all right. It's looking good. He was listed as full on Monday and Tuesday. He's in the middle of practice yesterday and goes like, ah, I don't, my back doesn't, doesn't feel quite right. And at that point, the coaches, as much as anything, were like, we can't keep doing this. We can't keep planning for the guy. He doesn't want to be here. The Cowboys had a strong offer, so really ramped up.

• 1:09:55Speaker 02

  Last night, they had to get the final sign offs there. You know, Joey Porter Jr.'s 24 years old. If he were to hit free agency at some point, he, he's gonna make a lot of money. He's gonna be a 30-plus million dollar corner, even though the Steelers and basically everybody else didn't really value him at that level.

• 1:10:12Bill Simmons?

  That seems too high.

• 1:10:13Speaker 02

  That's why I thought it was hard to get a deal done. It was hard to get a trade done before the season, because no one was gonna be willing to do that on a contract. But Bill, you and I both know in free agency, people spend stupid money all the time. This could end up being like George Pickens, where they tag him and he plays another year in Dallas, and then we'll find out what they do. Maybe they do sign him to extension, maybe they let him walk and they take a comp pick. There's a lot of ways it can go, but make no mistake, this is a move for the Cowboys who have watched that defense not be able to get the stand. They saw the seven seconds in Rio, which sounds like a bad rom com.

• 1:10:45Bill Simmons?

  Or porn.

• 1:10:46Speaker 02

  And they're just like, we need, we need a cover corner. They needed it all along and they went and they got the best one available.

• 1:10:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but ironically, you know who else needed a cover corner? The Pittsburgh Steelers. I watched them last week, they, they couldn't stop the two receivers on the Bengals the whole game. Um, and they even benched the guy they started, Samuel, and they put in, I think a rookie in the fourth quarter. So it's not like they didn't need Porter, but this is, I don't know, this feels like a bad trade for everybody. Because you have, you're getting a second round pick in 2028, be of a 42-year-old quarterback. So what are you trying to do this year? I, I don't get it.

• 1:11:21Speaker 02

  If you came to the conclusion, this guy's not gonna play and we might, maybe he'll play one week and then all of a sudden, my back hurts again. He's out for a month. Like, that's, that's the spot they were in. Like, the whole, the way holdouts are used now, you know, this is really ramped up in the last five years. Like, a hold in is not a thing. There's not like a thing in the collective bargaining group being like, hey, you can show up and say, oh, my back hurts. Like, no, the teams can find them, they can punish them, they can suspend them for conduct detrimental. But players have started to learn that they've got power. And a back injury, as I know from personal experience, may not show up on an MRI. There's no way to prove you don't have a back injury. So Jalen Ramsey did it, Micah Parsons did it, now Joey Porter Jr. did it.

• 1:12:04Speaker 02

  Is it a coincidence they all have the same agent in David Mulligetta?

• 1:12:07Bill Simmons?

  Oh, look at you, I like this.

• 1:12:09Speaker 02

  We can all judge, we can all judge based on that. But Mulligetta is a big believer, you don't give up money, you don't hold out, then you get fined and then go after your bonus. If you show up and maybe you're just not quite ready to be on the field, they can't take away your money. If they try to, it's gonna end up being a fight. Once again, you know, Joey Porter Jr., like Jalen Ramsey back years ago, he got what he wanted and magically, maybe even as soon as this Sunday, his back's gonna be healthy enough for him to play.

• 1:12:36Bill Simmons?

  So you're not disgruntled, you're not gruntled, you're kind of ungruntled.

• 1:12:43Speaker 02

  I suppose ungruntling.

• 1:12:45Bill Simmons?

  Ungruntling, yeah.

• 1:12:47Speaker 02

  Temporary state until you're gruntled again.

• 1:12:49Bill Simmons?

  You're de-gruntled. All right, Joey Porter, good luck to the Cowboys. I don't think they have it regardless. J.J. McCarthy got traded. Is that a, is that six pack worthy or no?

• 1:13:00Speaker 02

  I, I mean, I think so. We talked about it last week. I, I wish we could play back your response when I brought up J.J. McCarthy as a, as a possibility for the Giants. I would say scoffed would be a fair, a fair reaction. For me, and I get it. I, I get it. It's, you know, he's had good moments, but the bad's been really bad with J.J. McCarthy. The Giants look out there. There's not a lot of starting options available. You know, I, I thought that it was one of those deals that kind of makes sense for everybody. Maybe J.J. McCarthy succeeds in New York. If he does, it's in part because he needed a fresh start. He didn't need to be in the place where he'd become a meme and had all the injuries and he was going to be compared to Sam Darnold and Daniel Jones and even Kirk Cousins. You know, go to, go to the Giants

• 1:13:43Speaker 02

  where they just need somebody different. It's a completely different environment. You're not being asked to step in and start. And maybe it works out. You know, the Giants add a guy who at least can do some of the quarterback movement things that Jackson Dart can do. So you can, that 20% of your offense that just goes out the window with Jameis Winston because he's never been able to move. You can maybe run some of those things with J.J. And for the Vikings, they get out from under over $4 million in guaranteed salary. They get a fifth round pick, which is market value for these guys. You know, you go back through time like Mac Jones went to Jacksonville for a sixth. Justin Fields went from Chicago to Pittsburgh for a, a fifth that could become a fourth. Baker Mayfield was the same from Cleveland to Carolina. Kenny Pickett was like a bunch of weird picks. So I was like, fifth round pick is kind of the value. And it's like, well, why didn't they

• 1:14:27Speaker 02

  trade him sooner? Because they weren't being offered a fifth round pick.

• 1:14:30Bill Simmons?

  They almost waived him, right? I mean, they really seriously.

• 1:14:33Speaker 02

  They were never going to waive him because they.

• 1:14:35Bill Simmons?

  Because they had to eat the money?

• 1:14:37Speaker 02

  They'd have to eat the money anyway. And they thought somebody's going to trade for the guy eventually. There's enough teams that high grades on McCarthy coming out that they're going to go, you know what? Like, let's take a stab at it. Like, there's something in there. He won a lot of games. John Harbaugh talked to his brother. You know, you get a little bit of an idea what makes the guy tick. I, I like the trade for everybody involved, including Minnesota, which now Kyler's on a one-year deal with a no-tag clause. Carson Wentz, I mean, he, he'll come back as long as you'll have him on one year backup deals. You can start with a new GM completely fresh now in 2027 and avoid whatever scenarios would have existed next year of J.J. And are you going to trade him? And are you going to start him? You just, you wipe the slate clean and start over.

• 1:15:19Bill Simmons?

  Fifth round picks, nothing. I never understand, like, if I was a GM, fifth, sixth, seventh round picks, I would take an actual player over those all day. How many times do those actually pay off? Like, who's the team that has a fifth round D-back right now? I'm blanking. Are the Raiders maybe?

• 1:15:37Speaker 02

  I mean, Seattle, over time, has had a lot of those day three picks. And the Vikings new GM, Nolan Teasley, came from the Seahawks. Like, they've lived with those.

• 1:15:46Bill Simmons?

  I get it, but J.J. McCarthy was like the 10th pick. The eighth pick is like 22 years old. The reason I was surprised they traded him was because I, I didn't think anybody would offer like a second or third for him. But a fifth is like, you're giving him away at that point. You just want him out of the building.

• 1:16:02Speaker 02

  Four, four or $5 million is also, that's a player that you can add for the guaranteed money that you'd be sinking into a third, you know, a, a number three quarterback. Like, the fifth round pick, that could be, you know, top 150, all right, maybe, yeah, the percentages are low, like hitting on that. Like, you can get guards in the fifth round, or you can use that as a chip to potentially move up if you're targeting a quarterback again in 2027. That's, it's part of why, like, some teams philosophically have really gotten into the pick swaps where everything's like, we're going to trade a second for a fourth, we're going to trade a fifth for a seventh. Like, the way that, that Nolan and that front office is going to operate, like, pick swaps, you still ended up with the same number of players. At least here, I can get a player with the fifth round pick and maybe another player with the money. So, yeah, it's not a frontline type of a pick, but

• 1:16:47Speaker 02

  based on where J.J. is and based on what the precedent is, it's pretty clear, like, a fourth to fifth round pick, maybe a sixth, like somewhere in there, is what you're getting for a former first round pick who's lost his job, who's still on a fully guaranteed rookie contract, and you're offloading the money because they're not even allowed to eat the money under NFL rules. And year three, you can't even eat that money. It, it makes sense.

• 1:17:08Bill Simmons?

  It's also a league where these guys bounce around and sometimes they bounce to the right spot and all of a sudden, and we've seen it over and over again this decade. The thing, you might have even been the one that wrote this. The fact that the Giants' offense is a little like the Michigan thing where it's just like, you're going to run the ball and play action and the quarterback's going to use the legs, but we're not going to ask too much of you and just steer the ship. Just be a good, be a good driver of this car. Maybe he can do that. I didn't.

• 1:17:38Speaker 02

  Built to be, built to be physical in the running game and, you know, use a lot of tight ends. And then, yeah, like the boots and stuff. Again, Jameis is like a, even when he came out, he was a two-sport athlete at Florida State, but he's like the least athletic-looking mover that I can ever remember being like a high draft. Like, even Jared Goff, like, you kind of know what Goff is. Like, Jameis is just limbs flailing everywhere. Like, he has to play from the pocket. Where Dart, everything they were doing was like, there's, you know, designed runs and there's play action and there's boots. Like, a lot of stuff goes away with Jameis. At least J.J. can do it. The question is, you know, can he stay healthy doing any of that stuff, which is also part of the reason that if you game it out, all right, what's the

• 1:18:19Speaker 02

  best they could have done? J.J. goes, he gets the reps next offseason. He looks pretty good. He manages to stay healthy through the preseason, which he hasn't been able to do. Maybe he get a fourth next year. It wasn't going to be more than that. Take the fifth now, rip the band-aid off and move on.

• 1:18:33Bill Simmons?

  Maybe he grows some facial hair. Maybe he, maybe he matures in some way. Who knows? Maybe, maybe he becomes more of an adult. Is Jaden Daniels worth a six-pack spot?

• 1:18:46Speaker 02

  Sure. I mean, I think the fact that he's already back on the field after that grotesque-looking injury.

• 1:18:52Bill Simmons?

  I saw, I was watching one of the ESPN shows today and they had footage of him in practice. And he, he didn't have a giant thing on his arm or anything. And they, they weren't, I mean, he had something on his arm, but it wasn't like, he wasn't like moving like this. And then they made it seem like it wasn't inconceivable he could play this weekend, which I find hard to believe. But what are you hearing?

• 1:19:13Speaker 02

  I would say it's a long shot that he plays this week. But the fact that he's already practicing, A, gives him a chance, and B, bodes, bodes pretty well for him being back on the field in Week 5. He is going to be wearing like the big Barry Bonds-type brace on it. Like, that was part of the discussion. I, I wrote this in the sweep, too. Like, he's probably going to have surgery after the year to tighten up the elbow. But he met with a bunch of different specialists who were all like, yeah, if you want the elbow to stop popping in and out, you're going to have to get surgery. But you're not at any more risk to make the injury worse now. He might aggravate it. I mean, obviously, if he gets tackled and he lands on it even with a brace, it's not going to feel good. But it's not like he's going to do additional damage. Jaden did not want to have surgery. He wanted to come back and play. Surgery would have been minimum three months. It's

• 1:19:58Speaker 02

  effectively, you're out for the season. Like, he wanted to get back. And so we'll see when that is. Again, it's possible this week. I think, you know, especially with the way Marcus Mariota played last week and they got a win, they don't need to push him out there in an international game. But it, it's not inconceivable. And, you know, it, it does bode well for him being back on the field in Week 5, which that Jaden Daniels we saw from the second half of the opener, the first half in Dallas, looked a lot like the Rookie of the Year. Like, he's moving well. They have some rhythm. Like, Stefan Diggs has been really good in that offense so far. Like, they seem to have some pieces coming together.

• 1:20:34Bill Simmons?

  I was genuinely impressed in that Seattle game. I, because I thought Washington was going to stink this year. They were well-coached. They, they kind of took it to Seattle. There were a couple of points in the game when it felt like they were going to die and they just didn't. Their defense was actually doing pretty well and they, they're blocking way better than I thought they were going to block. I thought their offensive line was just going to single-handedly kill them. They kind of held up against Seattle. And it, it wasn't one of those where it felt like Seattle was asleep and didn't want the game because Darnold was back. Like, they were, you know, they really got JSN involved. They really were going for it. But Mariota just played great. And I was impressed. And I, I know there's some coaching stuff with them, too, that people are excited about the offensive coordinator and some of the stuff happening there.

• 1:21:18Speaker 02

  For David Blau, who's calling the third game of his life against Mike McDonald in what, I mean, kind of feels like a must-win. Like, if you're 0-3 and now you're kind of like, oh, my God, this thing's unraveling. If you go back through that game, like, he, he had some really great calls and, and some schematic things that kind of threw.

• 1:21:38Bill Simmons?

  Especially the end of the game, they got those two third downs where it was like, oh, Seattle's going to stop them here. They're going to come back down the one by one. And they've got the third down both times.

• 1:21:46Speaker 02

  And he's doing it with a backup quarterback. It's not Jaden who can make something out of nothing. Like, Marcus could do that once upon a time. But now he's kind of a, you know, a pocket passer, too, even though he can run a little bit at this stage. I was really impressed. You know, both David Blau and Deronte Jones, they're both first-time play callers. This is all part of Dan Quinn's plan. Don't let the good young coaches out of the building. You, you roll the dice a little bit with that. And you definitely have risk early in the season. Those guys, we've seen it, you know, with Davis Webb and all the scrutiny on him in Denver. Like, it's your first time being a full-time play caller. Like, there's a, a growth process there. Not many guys step in and immediately it's like, just taking off. Not just because of you, but because all your players are learning a new system and you're learning how to teach it to them. I,

• 1:22:27Speaker 02

  I, I thought Blau did a really impressive job in a tough spot. And if they can come out and find a way this week, you know, all of a sudden you could be 2-2, getting your starting quarterback back in the lineup in a division that, depending, you know, how, in Dallas, it's the defense, what happens with the Giants, the Eagles are, you know, 2-1 and everyone's predictably losing their minds over it. Like, you're not out of it. I, I said from the beginning, I thought Washington was kind of a sneaky team that could be relevant. And if they can find a way to get a win this week, get Jaden back and let's roll.

• 1:22:58Bill Simmons?

  98 could take the division. What was that year when Dayball and Daniel Jones, what were they, like, 9-7-1 or 8-7? And 8-8-1 or something? I forget.

• 1:23:09Speaker 02

  2022, they went on the road.

• 1:23:11Bill Simmons?

  Did they win 10?

• 1:23:12Speaker 02

  I think they won 10. And they went on the road to Minnesota and beat the Vikings in Minneapolis in a wild card game.

• 1:23:19Bill Simmons?

  This wasn't on your six-pack list, but I'm throwing this at you because we're talking about Jaden Daniels and

• 1:23:26Bill Simmons?

  unexpected QBs. I've become intrigued by the Tampa guy.

• 1:23:31Bill Simmons?

  Jalen. Uh, and the whole story, I, I admittedly slept on it. I wasn't following the Tampa Bay backup quarterback battle with him and I think it was Jake Browning.

• 1:23:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:43Bill Simmons?

  But the story of this kid who was in college, like for, he's one of those guys who was in college forever and got hurt and redshirt a couple of times. But there's like good vibes with this dude. And I'm wondering, I don't, I'm not saying this is going to be Kurt Warner and the Rams because the Bucks aren't that good, but everyone has written them off because Baker was hurt and Baker has been bad this whole season. Is it conceivable that, that this rookie backup could actually, you know, give a little life into the Bucks? What are you hearing about him?

• 1:24:15Speaker 02

  So Jalen Daniels, when I did my annual quarterback story every year, like I had him seventh round of priority free agent, he was the top one that was kind of on that border where some people liked him, but I didn't get the sense anybody liked him enough to draft him. So he slides through, they signed him for like, it was like a solid guarantee, like 270,000, which usually if you commit that type of money to a guy, you're saying, all right, he's at least going to make the practice squad. So we're not going to lose all this money. He'll at least be around. And what happened in camp was exactly what you said, which was he came on and flashed like I kept, you know, when I'm trying to figure out trades and things like that through training camp and up to cut down day, I'm always asking, all right, like, you know, you're looking at the depth charts going, who needs a quarterback? And like Tampa was one that was just jumping out like clearly they got Jake Browning,

• 1:25:00Speaker 02

  who's not performing very well.

• 1:25:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:02Speaker 02

  Who's on a minimum deal. He got this undrafted rookie in Baker and everyone was like, no, I haven't called. Haven't heard from the Bucks on the quarterbacks. And a big part of that was they liked Jalen Daniels and everything that he brought to the table. Um, you know, he, you brought up how long he played. It was six years. He's the rare guy. Six years of college football, zero transfers, played all of it at Kansas. Now we get used to these guys play at three or four schools. I went back and looked, Jalen Daniels first game was against Coastal Carolina in the 2020 COVID season. In that game for the other team, for Coastal Carolina, Isaiah Likely caught a touchdown. Isaiah Likely is already on his second contract in the NFL, was playing in that game against Jalen

• 1:25:45Speaker 02

  Daniels. That's how far back he goes. Like he's got, he's one of those guys who when scouts talk about, they're like, what's the player's dominant trait? You know, do you have the big arm? Do you have the elusiveness? Jalen Daniels doesn't really have a dominant trait, but he's pretty good at everything. And so, you know, without the dominant trait, he's not the guy that gets drafted, but maybe he comes out and plays pretty good. You know, they, they only added, they didn't go out and trade for somebody, at least not yet.

• 1:26:10Bill Simmons?

  No, they seem fine with this.

• 1:26:12Speaker 02

  They, they signed Brett Rippon to the practice squad. They'll have Easton Stick backing him up on Sunday. Like they're rolling with Jalen, Jalen Daniels as an 0-3 team that, that really needs a win, which says a lot about, you know, what they think of him.

• 1:26:24Bill Simmons?

  I did some recon. I read, I went back and read the August stories when they were like, yeah, we think we have our backup. This guy's been good. And there was a lot of stuff about, you know, he, he was supposed to have his senior year. He was like, uh, you know, like a dark horse Heisman candidate and that chance to be the big 12 player of the year, and he hurt his back. And basically they had to punt on the air and it was the second time where he just had a blank year, which is why he was in college for six years. But he did have moments in college where people were like, huh, this guy, there's something here.

• 1:26:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:26:56Bill Simmons?

  And obviously it all came together in Tampa, but, um, from watching that team, I can't imagine anybody could be worse than, than some of the stuff I saw from Baker in those three games. I just thought Baker was, was the worst we've seen him since he was getting waved and passed around.

• 1:27:12Speaker 02

  But see, it seems like it's, you know, the classic hero ball thing where the harder you're trying,

• 1:27:16Bill Simmons?

  Right, totally.

• 1:27:17Speaker 02

  things go wrong. Even the way he got hurt is like a fourth down and he's scrambling around like the game's probably over, but like Baker's a competitor. He's always going to compete on every snap. So he's like 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage, falling out of bounds.

• 1:27:30Bill Simmons?

  Doing circles.

• 1:27:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then, and smacks his, and then his thumb just disappears on the replay, which is never a good sign. It's, it's dislocated. I mean, they've, they've got a lot to clean up here. So here's, by the way, Bill, I just pulled up my story, uh, from pre-draft. This was one of my favorite quotes. By the way, 19 and 26 is the starter at Kansas.

• 1:27:49Bill Simmons?

  I don't think it was ever better than six wins. Yeah.

• 1:27:51Speaker 02

  Of football Mecca. He's six foot and five ace, 219 pounds. So he's not a big guy. The line from an AFC scout, Jalen scares me. That guy should be a doctor by now with all the college football he's played and he still makes mistakes that are just goofy. You'll want to see this progression. Like that was it. He had injuries. He had the back injury. He had a shoulder. He just never really took off. Well, maybe get out of a place where you're throwing to future dentists and go to the NFL where you've got some weapons on that Bucks team. You with Jalen McMillan out. Maybe that, maybe that helps you is you're not throwing to guys who are overmatched every single week.

• 1:28:25Bill Simmons?

  And they're playing the Packers. This is on your six pack. The Packers are terrible. Uh, now they have 10 days between that Thursday night disaster and this next game against Tampa, but, um, and my, my guess is the Bucks 0-3, they'll run the ball. They'll try to pound the ball down the Packers. So the Packers are down on receivers. They're decimated all over the place. And the offensive line thing, which was already bad, is somehow worse. Is this, what are you hearing? Like about, what happens to this team? Does this, do they even think they, they can make the playoffs at this point? Or is this just a lost season already?

• 1:29:03Speaker 02

  I would say this, they did some very unpackers things after that loss on Thursday night to the Falcons. Like the Packers for years, going back to certainly Ted Thompson, even to Ron Wolf, you, you were just, you were a draft and develop program and we're going to play the young guys. Yeah, they might struggle, but they're going to get better. If you go back to the tape of that game against Atlanta, there are, I might count four times where they are sliding one direction. Okay. They are slide protecting like we're not going to get beat on this side. And they get beat to the slide side on a four man rush. That should never happen.

• 1:29:37Bill Simmons?

  Against Atlanta.

• 1:29:37Speaker 02

  That's not bad.

• 1:29:38Bill Simmons?

  Atlanta, who doesn't have their two pass rushers.

• 1:29:40Speaker 02

  Right. That's how bad the guard play was in particular. You know, you can cover up a tackle, but like covering up two bad guards. So what do they do? Again, they've always been drafted and helped. Let them play through it. They go and they sign Kevin Seidler, they sign Mackay-Beckton, and they poached Laken Tomlinson off a practice squad, like three guys who have between them probably made 200 NFL starts. They're like, this is a problem and we got to fix it. Like I'm not as panicky about the Packers as I think other people are because Micah Parsons is going to be back. If it's not week five, it's going to be week six that he should be back in the lineup. Josh Jacobs, we'll see. I think he comes back at some point, but you just never know when a guy goes on the exempt list. And they do, like the receivers are playing some of their best football. Watson and Matthew Golden are both

• 1:30:22Speaker 02

  playing the best we've seen them. Tucker Kraft still doesn't look like he's a hundred percent yet.

• 1:30:26Bill Simmons?

  I totally agree.

• 1:30:27Speaker 02

  That he gets, you'd think he gets better over the course of the season.

• 1:30:30Bill Simmons?

  By the way, they have no other receivers. They just have those two because Reed's out now.

• 1:30:34Speaker 02

  And they've got Sky Moore playing and.

• 1:30:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I was looking at fantasy because you know, that offense has been reliable over the years. I was like, oh, I wonder if there's a third Packer receiver that could be potential, like grab them. Maybe, maybe he'll play. And it was like Melton, Bo Melton, Sky Moore. It's like, oh my God, this is, this team used to have six receivers that you've heard of. Not anymore.

• 1:30:56Speaker 02

  Tucker, Tucker Kraft needs to be, along with John U. Smith, who also we forget is there, like those guys need to be the additional receivers. Like they're a team that is built to in many ways run the football and have everything come off of that. They haven't run the football well because the offensive line has been so bad. And their three running backs right now are all like third string caliber, if not practice squad caliber guys. Like that makes it really, really hard. I do think that they figure some things out, especially if they're able just to plug the holes with the guards and defensively, once Micah returns, like they still have a chance to be a really good defense. They're just not playing well right now.

• 1:31:30Bill Simmons?

  Their running backs are awful. Um, two receivers, Kraft, not Kraft yet. I just don't, I don't see where the offense comes from in this team. And by the way, Christian Watson isn't exactly, um, Cal Ripken Jr. From a durability standpoint, so.

• 1:31:46Speaker 02

  No, he is, he has not been, but this is, you know, knock on wood. This is the most durable we've seen. Like you see why they paid him.

• 1:31:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:53Speaker 02

  When he's out there, he's, he's unbelievable. Like he's, I mean, easily a top 20, if not a top 10 receiver in the NFL. He's that good.

• 1:31:59Bill Simmons?

  He's just not durable.

• 1:32:00Speaker 02

  It's just all of a sudden then he'll have a hamstring and he'll miss six weeks. Like that's been the issue, but like he's everything that the Packers want their players to be, other than able to stay on the field.

• 1:32:10Bill Simmons?

  And meanwhile, speaking of the Packers, the Jets now have this Colts pick. They have the best of the Packers Cowboys pick. I feel like this is the biggest story in the league that barely anyone's talking about. And then they have their own pick. They might have three of the top 10, you know, in this draft that has a bunch of quarterbacks. And I kind of like what I'm seeing from the Jets anyway. I think they're, they're at least frisky. They have some talent. Um, I think they easily could have won all three games that they played this year already. And now they have all this stuff. Do you feel like they're not going to try to shop any of those picks and talk themselves into maybe actually being good this year, right?

• 1:32:49Speaker 02

  I don't have any anticipation that they're doing that. Um, but they do already think that their roster should be competitive every week. And you've seen that, you know, what you've also seen is they've just, they don't know how to win yet. Whether it's how the games are being managed, you know, timeout usage, just making the big plays in the big moments. Like that's the Green Bay game obviously got away from and just sort of a wild, uh, type of a way. But you look at, you know, their frontline guys, they really did. Not many teams totally rip it down like Darren Muji did in that building. He's done that. They got all the capital. Then you bring in some veteran players to try to help you understand how to win those games. I mean, Demario Davis on a two-year deal and, and the other

• 1:33:30Speaker 02

  older players, Minka Fitzpatrick, who's banged up right now. That's, that's been the plan. Like they're anticipating, we're in it this year.

• 1:33:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:37Speaker 02

  And that's the launching point to then with all those picks, we really figure it out. You know, who, who knows what happens with Gino? This is probably a one-year stopgap and they're drafting somebody in 2027. He could play his way into sticking around for another year, but with three first round picks, Cleveland has two, and then there's going to be some really bad teams like Miami, even though they're competitive every week, they just don't have the players.

• 1:33:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:00Speaker 02

  Um, they're, they're going to be in position. The Jets are going to be in position to either have one of the top picks or package those picks to go get one of the top picks, whether it ends up being Arch Manning or Dante Moore, Trinidad Shambless, whatever, wherever we net out in this whole thing, they're going to be able to go get one of those guys. And I'm with you. Put a young stud rookie quarterback in there with, you know, Breece Hall, once he's able to be back. He's week to week right now. Kenyon Siddique, that first, I mean, his first touchdown catches go.

• 1:34:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:28Speaker 02

  That was a cool one. Garrett Wilson. Hey, we finally have a guy.

• 1:34:31Bill Simmons?

  He's alive.

• 1:34:32Speaker 02

  Garrett Wilson, the ball and he's nasty. Like he's a really good player. They've got some, some exciting pieces there.

• 1:34:37Bill Simmons?

  They easily could have beaten the Lions. They were throwing on them. Now it's hard to say with the Lions because their secondary is so bad, but that was about as good as Gino's going to look in a game. And Gino was somebody I think we all gave up on last year, but I don't know. If I'm the Jets, I'm watching what happens with the Pats because you have these two behemoths in your division, but the Pats might not be a behemoth, which leads us sadly to, uh,

• 1:35:01Bill Simmons?

  Drake May.

• 1:35:03Bill Simmons?

  What are you hearing? This is, this has to be, what's the number one topic where people going, what's going on with blank? Is it the Chargers or is it Drake May in the NFL right now? Who is hitting you up the most?

• 1:35:15Speaker 02

  Big picture, it's the Chargers. Just because the Chargers, they don't have a clear win on the schedule. And they don't really have a clear out of like, how would you fix this if this thing keeps going as south as it seems to be? I mean, the Patriots were in the Super Bowl last year. The Chargers have gone to the playoffs twice with Jim Harbaugh. They've won 11 games. Good for them, but like they've gone one and done in the playoffs, which is not what you pay a lot of money, which the Chargers generally have not done to go get one of the, you know, ostensibly top coaches in the entire NFL in Jim Harbaugh. You know, they go to Seattle this week. You feel, you fall to 0 and 4, you know, Seattle, like I,

• 1:35:52Bill Simmons?

  Seattle coming off a loss, by the way.

• 1:35:54Speaker 02

  Right, exactly. I would be mad if I were the Chargers, like why'd they have to lose that game in Washington? Just get them sitting pretty this week. They're going to be pissed off. They're going to come out willing to stick it to them. And you have, you know, the comments Jim Harbaugh made this week, which I think everybody interpreted as like they're about, Justin Herbert, or he's just doing like, you know, what do you need him to do? It's like, be better, be better, which is classic Jim Harbaugh where it's all just, we're going to do better. We're going to work harder. We're going to have more effort. Like, that's kind of his answer for everything. I read it as much about Mike McDaniel, where he's talking about like, we got to look at the scheme. We got to look at what we're doing and who's doing it.

• 1:36:31Bill Simmons?

  Is this too complicated? Are we trying to do too many things? Are we not doing enough things?

• 1:36:36Speaker 02

  And Jim's around, Jim's around, like he's in the meetings, he's Mike McDaniel's office, office a lot, trying to learn. Like, he doesn't know the system. And Jim himself doesn't have a system that he's leaning back on. Like, he's the guy who runs the culture.

• 1:36:51Bill Simmons?

  He's the CEO culture guy, yeah.

• 1:36:53Speaker 02

  Completely, you know, he talks to the team a couple of times a week, but he's not in there diagramming plays. He's not overriding calls. So now, the Euro and three, and this was something organizationally they wanted to do with bringing in Mike McDaniel. Let's put Justin in this office. Like, there's all these questions now that Jim's got to answer. Whereas with, I think with Mike Vrabel and the Patriots, it's pretty straightforward. Drake's not playing well. He's not playing with,

• 1:37:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but why? What's your take?

• 1:37:20Speaker 02

  He's, okay, I mean, I'm going to write more on this on the sweep for this weekend, but I would tell you, it's not the shoulder. I know the shoulder's back on the injury report. He, he's been fine. He's been ripping the ball all through camp. He landed on the shoulder last week. Like, it's not that. It's not the personnel per se, losing AJ Brown definitely hurt. It's all these different moving parts right now. And like, none of it looks good. I've talked to people who have played them over these first few weeks and they're just like, it just looks like the whole thing is disjointed. Like, nothing is connecting. So what tends to happen, especially with young quarterbacks, is then you start pressing more. And I, I writing part of it on, you know, the play last week where he throws the interception right before halftime in the end zone. Like, that's one of the most basic plays you've got in the playbook, which is like, it's a quick play action.

• 1:38:06Speaker 02

  And then it's a roll pass. You got Remandre Stevenson. If he's covered up, you know, you either throw the ball to him quickly. If he's covered, which he kind of was, like, buy some time, let him try to work. He's going against the linebacker. He should be able to get open. Or Drake, take off running. Or Drake, throw the ball out of bounds, kick a field goal. Instead, he's throwing the ball across his body for Eftin Chisholm, who is not even an option on the play.

• 1:38:29Bill Simmons?

  Who's standing, who's standing behind the D back.

• 1:38:31Speaker 02

  Standing next to Travis Hunter.

• 1:38:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:33Speaker 02

  And he's not, Eftin Chisholm's role in that play is just run around and try to make people follow you. The ball's never supposed to go to him. And Drake's like, across his body flipping it softly at him, it goes right to Travis Hunter. Like, those are the things that happen when you feel like, I got to make a play. I got to get us going. What they need more than anything is to stop pressing, just calm down a little bit, play with urgency, but that's different than panic. He's playing with panic right now. And so, I, I know that it's like, it's not the most direct answer, but it's not the play calling per se. It's not, yes, it is AJ Brown not being out there that makes a difference, but like, it's not, you know, we traded Kayshon Booty, that would have fixed it. Like, he's got six catches in Houston. It's not that.

• 1:39:16Speaker 02

  It's really just, nothing's working and Drake is trying way too hard to make things work.

• 1:39:21Bill Simmons?

  And he lost his number one guy an hour into the season that they had built a lot of the offense around. I don't understand why they're using the running backs, the way they're using them, how they've used Henderson. But the big thing with me, he had a swagger about him last year. And Diggs, who I, I think they miss from a personality standpoint, I think he was really important behind the scenes and building up everybody else. And just had a swagger that these current guys don't seem to have. But the quotes that really jumped out to me last year was the way the guys talked about him. And they'd be like, well, we have Drake. Well, this guy, nobody has a guy like this. And they were really talking about him like pretty reverentially.

• 1:40:01Bill Simmons?

  And you go from that to what, how the Super Bowl played out, to what we've seen this year, where now you see a guy who, he just seems like he's, like, he almost looks like a high school kid who has a big paper coming that he knows he's not prepared for and just has that glazed look on his face. So I think it's more head than shoulder, but I don't love how he answered the shoulder question this week.

• 1:40:28Speaker 02

  I, I would agree. A lot of it's between the ears right now with Drake, just in terms of talking to people who know him, who've been around, who've played against him. It, it's, a lot of it, it's confidence based. It's just,

• 1:40:39Bill Simmons?

  It really feels that way. It's like a Rocky, Rocky III situation where he, like, for the first time, Clubber Lang hit him and he's like, oh shit.

• 1:40:46Speaker 02

  Right. And think about where that started. You just brought it up. They moved the ball. I know they didn't score a lot of points in that first half against the Seahawks, but AJ Brown had three catches. He had like a 34 yard DPI that if Drake just layers the ball out there a little bit more, it's a long touchdown. Like, AJ Brown was, I know the numbers weren't huge, but he was impacting that game. And so much of what they built in the off season was, well, we're going to be able to isolate AJ Brown on one side. And then when we get one on ones, like he can win every ball that we're going to throw that way. You don't have another guy like that. So what else happens? He goes out, Romeo Dobbs has a huge drop in that game. And then it's the fourth quarter where Drake throws three straight interceptions. It was really just at the tail end. They, they moved the ball okay up until that point.

• 1:41:30Speaker 02

  So there, there's definitely a correlation between AJ Brown being out. He's eligible to come back week six. I know he's pushing to be back.

• 1:41:37Bill Simmons?

  He was in crease in the locker room this week for some reason.

• 1:41:40Speaker 02

  So that definitely, he can't practice until after week five, so we won't know for another week.

• 1:41:45Bill Simmons?

  So they lose the AJ Brown piece, but they also, this rared in this tight end that they drafted that they really loved. And they were going to be able to play him and Henry together. And they had this big tight end lineup that they were going to throw at people. And then he didn't play last week. So they lost that look too. They couldn't do the big tight ends. They didn't have a deep threat. And for whatever reason, Jacksonville's D play good and it just, I don't know. I mean, this Buffalo game, the timing of this couldn't be worse.

• 1:42:12Speaker 02

  Or, or it could be great, honestly. I mean, the Bills, they didn't look great.

• 1:42:16Bill Simmons?

  Tell me more.

• 1:42:17Speaker 02

  They didn't look like the Bills. No, here, here's the point is, no, it's not, it's not easy. Okay, this is not the team you want to be going against, knowing that they can put you in a points race from go. And all of a sudden you're like, well, shit, we got to score 35 points.

• 1:42:29Bill Simmons?

  Well, with half my defense not practicing right now, that's not helping us either.

• 1:42:33Speaker 02

  Right. But if you can hit on some of those plays, even last week, I know like it doesn't do you any good, but like they had five explosive pass plays. Seven of their 10 drives went past the 50. There's a near miss to Mac Jones. There's a miss to, or Mac Hollins.

• 1:42:46Bill Simmons?

  Mac Hollins, yeah.

• 1:42:47Speaker 02

  There's a miss to, miss to Pop Douglas. Like, you're, you're pretty close. Like, you have some explosiveness. You are moving the football. It's just the turnovers are absolutely killing you. And there's, there's a Murphy's law aspect to it too. Like, the center is bleeding on the football and that leads to the ball slipping out of your hand. Like, like to see Drake, you know, find the ball and fall on it in that particular spot. But like, there, there's a little bit of luck. Like, if you can just have the luck fall your way, I know that that's a vast oversimplification, but like, come out and just play a little bit better. Execute a little bit better, you know, and find a way to, to win that game. All of a sudden, you're two and two, you're a game back in the division. Again, it's not an easy opponent at all, but look at, look ahead at the schedule after this game. It looks like you've got some winnable games out there in front of you.

• 1:43:32Speaker 02

  You steal this one, like the narrative flips like that. You come out and play like you did and you continue to turn over the ball at the rate that Drake May is, it's going to be a lot more, well, now what? And the panic level, all the external noise and people going on the radio and saying, Mike Vrabel hates Drake May and things like that. Like, it's just going to ramp up.

• 1:43:50Bill Simmons?

  We hit that stage this week. That was fun. It's funny with the Chargers and the Pats, you can talk yourself into the same glass half full. With the Chargers, it's like, yeah, we sucked against Arizona week one. Fine. Week two, we lost to the Raiders. It seemed like a terrible thing. Maybe the Raiders are pretty good. And then last week, we gave away the Buffalo game. We kept, we, you know, we got a million turnovers and we still screwed the game up and that was stupid. That's not going to happen every time. So, I don't know. The Pats are the same thing. Yeah, we were right in that Seattle thing and then we blew it. We beat Pittsburgh in week two. They put up a bunch of points against the Bengals a week later and then Jacksonville throw it away. Raiders, let's end with them on the six pack.

• 1:44:35Bill Simmons?

  I'm not ready to go there yet to predict that they're a playoff team because the schedule is really hard. But man, they remind me a lot. The more I look at it and research it and study it, they remind me a lot of what happened with the Pats last year where new coach following just a catastrophe of a coaching staff, competent quarterback play, they can block, they block better than the Pats did. They hit their draft. They hit a bunch of guys in the draft that I think are, you know, were meaningful. And then Bowers, if he's going to play, which he did last week, is one of the five or six most impactful receivers in the league. And I think they kind of know who they are. There's an identity.

• 1:45:17Bill Simmons?

  Like I was watching the Kubiak, his, his, uh, his speech in the locker room after the game and, you know, there was a little like, nobody believes in us, Buzz. So they, they have my attention is my point. Where do you stand on the, on the Raiders?

• 1:45:31Speaker 02

  The other corollary is remember the Patriots, one of that huge spending spree on their defense before last season. They got Milton Williams and a bunch of other guys. The Raiders did that.

• 1:45:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:41Speaker 02

  You know, they, when they trade Max Crosby for the four days or whatever it was that he was traded, uh, in the meantime, they spent all this money on other defensive players. Then they accidentally get back to one, a guy who's still one of the best players in the league in Max Crosby, who last week like was absolutely dominating at the end of that game. Like he hasn't gotten to close games like that because they haven't had a lead in five years.

• 1:46:04Bill Simmons?

  It's a great point.

• 1:46:05Speaker 02

  The, the best part of the fit with Clint Kubiak going there, besides the obvious fact that he's a very smart offensive coach. When you're developing a quarterback, you want to run a proven system that's one at the highest level. It's also that Clint, it's frankly, the reason that a lot of people within the league, even people who are friends with Clint, didn't think he would ever get a head coaching job is he is so flatlined. He is so low burn. I think that helps them. I think that these guys have been in absolute chaos for so long, so many firings, so many changes, controversies. Now they've just got like a pretty normal group of humans. I mean, their two quarterbacks with Kirk and Fernando are the two most like unassuming

• 1:46:48Speaker 02

  guys you're ever going to have in that room. Like they're the anti Raiders right now.

• 1:46:53Bill Simmons?

  They have a God room. The quarterbacks have a God room with the third stringer. They, they just talk about religion. They're even keel.

• 1:47:00Speaker 02

  Like this is the Raiders. You couldn't come up with a less Raiders group. I mean, I thought Pete Carroll was the ultimate anti Raiders guy. This is even more so like it is absolutely like, it's a very positive group of people. You're not expecting them to like get in fights in games. You're not expecting them to have 200 yards in penalties, go get in trouble on the strip. Like I say that and anything's possible, but it just seems like Clint has managed along with some of the other guys he brought in, like Andrew Ginoko, the OC, Rob Leonard, who's really well liked in the building.

• 1:47:30Bill Simmons?

  People like him.

• 1:47:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. They're, they're just like a bunch of just kind of normal guys who've just calmed down all the bullshit. And I'm not saying that's enough for them to be a playoff team. This is the biggest game though, that they've had in probably five years in that stadium. Place is going to be absolutely rocking. Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs come in. If they win this game, I think that we have to start at least talking about, is this an actual playoff team in 2026?

• 1:47:57Bill Simmons?

  I'd be, I mean, if they had the schedule that Pats had last year, we would be talking about them as could this team win 12, 13 games. But their schedule is brutal. This game that they have in, against the Chiefs, so the line is plus four and a half for the Raiders. So they're baking in like Chiefs Raiders history, Mahomes, all that stuff. The real thing is the Chiefs fans. And I think there's going to be, I don't know if it's going to be good or bad for the Raiders, but I think that energy in that stadium with all the Raiders fans who are just, beating Mahomes would be the ultimate, right? But then you're probably going to have 25,000, 30,000 Chiefs fans there. And it's going to, I think it's going to feel like a soccer game. I think it's going to be really cool.

• 1:48:39Bill Simmons?

  I, to me, it's the game of the, it's the game of the week, other than Bill's Pats. Cause Bill's Pats is like, yeah, if the Pats lay an egg in this game, this is, then I think they're a write off. Raiders Chiefs, if they, the Raiders can stick it to the Chiefs and throw a couple haymakers and just have a good game, I think they could be a playoff team.

• 1:48:59Speaker 02

  I believe they've got the number one crew calling this game too.

• 1:49:03Bill Simmons?

  Unbelievable.

• 1:49:04Speaker 02

  CBS, a Raiders game in week four.

• 1:49:06Bill Simmons?

  Right. Mahomes.

• 1:49:08Speaker 02

  It's pretty wild. Like enjoy it Raiders fans. It's, uh, it has not been like this very often in a long, long time.

• 1:49:15Bill Simmons?

  And we think Pukunakua is healthy before we go?

• 1:49:17Speaker 02

  Everything I've been told is that he's feeling a lot better. Uh, consulted with a bunch of specialists. Everybody agreed does not need surgery right now. Um, seems like he's in a better place than he was a week or two ago. And so it appears to be, as far as I know, all systems go for him to be back against Indians.

• 1:49:32Bill Simmons?

  All right. Looking forward to the sweep on Saturday. You can hear Tom on the Ringer NFL Show as well. Thank you. I will see you next week.

• 1:49:39Speaker 02

  Sounds good. Thanks, Bill.

• 1:49:41Bill Simmons?

  My dad is here recording this on a Thursday afternoon, less than 24 hours after the Red Sox were knocked out in consecutive games by the Yankees.

• 1:49:51Speaker 03

  What do you mean? We're not playing at eight o'clock tonight?

• 1:49:53Bill Simmons?

  We're not playing. It was the best two or three. We lost.

• 1:49:55Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:49:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:57Speaker 03

  I thought it was three out of five.

• 1:49:58Bill Simmons?

  We didn't have high hopes. We had a lot of injuries on the Sox, but there, there's some big picture Red Sox stuff, including the fact that they extended the manager who was reprehensibly bad in the playoffs, but it's fine. He's a young manager, maybe learn in the playoffs. But they also extended the GM Craig Breslow through 29 and 30, um, which seems a lot scarier of a decision for Red Sox fans because it came off the high of the 32 and five winning streak and some good vibes. But for the most part, I do not know if Craig, Craig Breslow is the right guy to run the Red Sox. How do you feel about this?

• 1:50:35Speaker 03

  Well, I think you're right. You know, we had that terrific 15 game winning streak and suddenly Craig Breslow looked very safe. But I, I think before that, um, I'm not sure he would have lasted the season. I mean, the Red Sox have a history of only hanging in there for three or four years with, you know, general manager types. And that's the frustrating part. We had that great 15 game winning streak. I actually went to game 15 of that streak. We lose a couple and then we win nine more and we won nine in a row.

• 1:51:08Bill Simmons?

  32 and five in 37 games.

• 1:51:11Speaker 03

  Crazy. Uh, unfortunately it wasn't in September. It was, not unfortunately, but it was when it was, but, uh, then the bats got silent in September and you talked, you and I talked a lot about how the, the, the guys that had gotten them that winning streak, suddenly all of them weren't playing anymore because people like Roman Anthony was suddenly back in the lineup.

• 1:51:38Bill Simmons?

  And Trevor Story.

• 1:51:39Speaker 03

  And Trevor Story.

• 1:51:40Bill Simmons?

  Hangdog Trevor.

• 1:51:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yep. Um, and, and went to one of the games and suddenly the spunk didn't seem the same. It's like same old, same old. It was kind of weird how that happened. Not to say that if those guys hadn't come back and the same second string type players had kept playing, things would have been great. I don't know. We'll never know. The other thing that happened was.

• 1:52:07Bill Simmons?

  Well, wait, hold on on that point.

• 1:52:08Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:52:09Bill Simmons?

  Cause it was like a sports movie during that 32 and five streak.

• 1:52:12Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:52:12Bill Simmons?

  And it was Night After Night, A Different Hero, and Monastello, all these guys. And then the same guys came back who were all part of the team that we all couldn't stand watching in April and May and the beginning of June. And then we kind of slowly reverted back. And then there were just so many injuries. I mean, Rafaela was a zombie in that Yankee series. He didn't even look like himself.

• 1:52:33Speaker 03

  But you know, you and I think you and I were, were at the game when Rafaela got hurt.

• 1:52:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. The third base coach stopped him. He was running full speed and stopped him against Seattle.

• 1:52:44Speaker 03

  And that third base coach, the entire year had many suspicious, uh, decisions, running guys or not running guys.

• 1:52:53Bill Simmons?

  He was awful.

• 1:52:53Speaker 03

  That was, that was awful that you, and we saw him, he stopped so short, it looked like he got hurt. And sure enough, a couple of days later, he's out of the lineup.

• 1:53:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. My buddy Hench said our third base coach was the only third base coach with a negative war. That stat war, it was like minus five for the year because he kept taking out our guys or sending them into collisions. But yeah, Rafaela was never the same after that. Contreras got hit in the hand with two weeks left in the season. He was never the same after that.

• 1:53:21Speaker 03

  Well, and not only that, you, you had said throughout the last couple of months that once he got hit in the head previously and it looked like he got concussed, he never came back the same. He just didn't look the same. He looked like he was foggy almost.

• 1:53:37Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:53:38Speaker 03

  In a trance.

• 1:53:38Bill Simmons?

  Well, even in the Yankee series, he, that one when the, uh, you know, the pivotal play of game two, get a strikeout, Rutschman takes forever to go get the ball, throws it to first and Contreras is on the wrong side of the first base bag instead of stretching. And it was little stuff like that, that sunk this team ultimately.

• 1:53:56Speaker 03

  And, you know, obviously a mental mistake and you wonder a mental mistake because he's not a hundred percent.

• 1:54:01Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:54:01Speaker 03

  Mentally, after being hit twice. Yeah. I've never seen that happen where the first baseman's way back of the bag.

• 1:54:09Bill Simmons?

  It was crazy.

• 1:54:10Speaker 03

  If he's in the front of the bag, I think the guy's out.

• 1:54:12Bill Simmons?

  Well, have you ever seen when you make one of your big trade deadline moves, when they get Curtis Mead and he gets hurt within an hour of the first game? And then we never see him again? And then he comes back for the last game? I, that was the weirdest Red Sox career I could remember.

• 1:54:27Speaker 03

  Very strange, almost as strange as putting our ace pitcher, who hasn't pitched in four months.

• 1:54:36Bill Simmons?

  Crochet.

• 1:54:36Speaker 03

  Out there for relief appearance in game two.

• 1:54:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I don't think they were going to beat the Yankees with the team that they had, but the manager was awful and.

• 1:54:46Speaker 03

  Well, I want, let's talk about the manager, you know. It was, he, he got so out coached, you know, he seems like a really nice guy and I'll give him a lot of credit because he got the clubhouse together. He certainly was responsible, greatly responsible for bringing them back from the dead.

• 1:55:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:07Speaker 03

  I liked a lot of the small ball decisions he made, bunting runners over, you know, all that sacrifice stuff, all of which disappeared in the playoffs, by the way.

• 1:55:16Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:55:17Speaker 03

  And he, he looked like he just, he was managing scared in those two games. You know, I was thinking back to game one, we're down one to nothing. We're still in the game, even though our bats have been silent for a while, but we're down one to nothing and he takes Peyton Toll out of the game for no reason. I mean, the guy, his pitch count was still low and then we see him, see the same thing in game two.

• 1:55:42Bill Simmons?

  Well, and then brings in the same guy who's been dog shit for a month. He was good when we got him and then the last month was, I didn't trust him. I didn't want to see him in that spot. I thought our only chance in this series was Toly and Gray. And then if it got to a game three Suarez, just, just having three awesome starts or two awesome starts, whatever. And he pulled both of the starters, you know, before the, before the fifth inning or the end of the fifth inning.

• 1:56:09Speaker 03

  Well, he didn't, he let neither pitcher finish the fifth. And you know, you look at what the Yankees did with their starter yesterday.

• 1:56:21Speaker 03

  He, he was what 115 pitches or something.

• 1:56:24Bill Simmons?

  That's what you're supposed to do.

• 1:56:25Speaker 03

  And our guys, he just seemed to manage scared. And it's so unfortunate because I thought he managed very well during the year and now he's only going to be remembered for these two terrible decision games. I wish our starters had been allowed to go seven or eight. I don't know what would have happened.

• 1:56:47Bill Simmons?

  Well, and that's before you get into Roman Anthony, was he hurt before the series? Why did he have two at bats before they decided he was really hurt and you pitched inning for him, but you knew he was hurt before the game? Why is he on the roster? All of that was weird.

• 1:57:04Speaker 03

  This, all good, you know, all good questions because when he came back, he, I don't know if you remember, he was like eight for 12 or something. He was hitting really well.

• 1:57:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:13Speaker 03

  And then all of a sudden he was not hitting very well, but they kept him in the lineup. Then they took him out, put him back in. I don't think he ever got healthy. Somebody should teach him how it's not a good idea to stop your swing midway through the swing.

• 1:57:28Bill Simmons?

  All the time.

• 1:57:29Speaker 03

  Cause, yeah, all the time. Just go through with it.

• 1:57:32Bill Simmons?

  And maybe this swing, not wait till two strikes before you attack any pitching count. He's a really frustrating player. It's funny because you go to the games and I went to a couple this year and the 19 jerseys everywhere. He's, he's the guy they're pushing. He's the guy that the fans want to grab onto and you know, it's a lot like Drake May and the Pats. But he's a really frustrating player to watch and it seemed like by the time we got to the end of the series, it seemed like the team was really frustrated with him. And there's a lot of buzz about that behind the scenes about them wondering, you know, should he have played through pain? Is there stuff he could have done? Where you have Contreras, Contreras probably had.

• 1:58:09Speaker 03

  You said Contreras said stuff.

• 1:58:11Bill Simmons?

  Well, that there was, you know, there's buzz, but you know, Contreras probably had a broken hand that he was just playing with. Like, we don't even know how, how hurt he was. I wonder, like the big thing, it's funny because this is three seasons. This was the most depressing Red Sox season, like since I was a kid, the first, I don't know, 12 weeks. Then you had this improbable streak that really lit the city on fire, combined with the World Cup. Really like rejuvenated everything and, and Fenway was packed. It was impossible to get tickets. People loved this team.

• 1:58:42Speaker 03

  And I went out and I bought a red hat.

• 1:58:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you got a new Red Sox hat. You were excited about it. The old one, we had to finally bury.

• 1:58:50Bill Simmons?

  And then it became a question near the trade deadline of, hey, if we can get all these guys back and then add a couple of trade deadline pieces, this could be one of the best teams, like the bullpen was deep. At that point, Slaton was pitching and Guerrero came out of nowhere, lights out. Both of those guys, you know, didn't make it through the end of the season, but they make these two trades. One was for me, where they trade a lefty starter early that I thought was good.

• 1:59:15Speaker 03

  I, I never would have traded early.

• 1:59:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but they needed a bat. I get it and they're rich in pitching. I wouldn't have necessarily done it, but whatever. But then the Rutchman trade was the bigger one because he has a big contract coming up and watching him all the time here, he's injury prone. He doesn't look in shape to me. It's like having Engelbert from Bad News Bears in breaking training. Even when that, that drops strike, he's just slow. Everything about him just seems kind of doughy and out of shape and slow. And he's in his 27, 28 year range. It makes me think like, how is this guy going to age? We're going to give this guy a giant contract to justify giving three prospects up in that trade? I don't want to do that.

• 2:00:01Bill Simmons?

  Everything about that, I just think was a failure looking back.

• 2:00:04Speaker 03

  Well, looking back, you know, I, I was excited when they traded for him, but I was going on past history and I knew he had been hurt and he hadn't really played this year. But when he showed up, he looked about 20 pounds overweight.

• 2:00:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:19Speaker 03

  And they showed a rookie card of, and he looked 25 pounds overweight. I don't know. And as you said, he was slow and I never trusted he would get a hit, which was really strange because you look at his baseball card and he's done very well.

• 2:00:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:37Speaker 03

  But he's not, he's not the same guy.

• 2:00:39Bill Simmons?

  He'd have a couple of swings, like he hit a couple bombs at Fenway to places that I've only seen a couple of people, you know, like really big ones that wrapped around the pole in spots in right field that home runs don't normally go. And it's like, oh, that's interesting. This guy's got some power, but ultimately for what they gave up, I don't think he's a sure thing.

• 2:00:59Speaker 03

  A couple of things. Yeah, he did have some hits, but if you look back, most of them were not when people were on base.

• 2:01:08Bill Simmons?

  Right. They were like solo in the first five innings.

• 2:01:10Speaker 03

  He was not a guy I wanted to come up with two outs and men on second and third, and you needed the hit to drive in runs to tire, go ahead. He didn't do it. He'd, he'd have that soft fly to the outfield or if he was hitting lefty, the ground to the second base.

• 2:01:29Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 2:01:29Speaker 03

  He just, he wasn't the guy I think they hoped they were getting.

• 2:01:33Bill Simmons?

  He was still somehow better than Connor Wong.

• 2:01:36Speaker 03

  I don't know. You know, for what they gave up.

• 2:01:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:39Speaker 03

  You talked about their pitching. Yeah, they gave up early. They gave up their two top prospects, pitching prospects in the minors.

• 2:01:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And you, you actually go and you look at these guys' stats. It's one of your weird things. You like looking at our minor league stats, our best guys. You were the most upset when Jeff Bagwell got traded out of anyone I know.

• 2:01:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:01:59Bill Simmons?

  You were like, I was looking at his New Britain box scores.

• 2:02:04Bill Simmons?

  They give up a lot for Rutchman though, and it seemed like he was the leader of that Baltimore team. And I liked the reactions of his teammates. I was like, oh, that's a good sign. They seem really bummed out. They seem like they really liked him. But now you look back and you think they had this 32 and five, and then other than that, they were basically what 15 games under 500 for all the other games. And you wonder like Red Sox stats, this Twitter account I follow, the guy's great. And he was saying like, if, if all of the wins had just been scattered across the season and there was no streak like that and the team was just the team, would the GM have survived today? Would they have extended the manager? You know, it was really, that streak really, really broke everybody's brains, it felt like.

• 2:02:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, they got put in a tough place with the manager after he brought them back.

• 2:02:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he kind of, he kind of had to commit to him. I agree.

• 2:02:56Speaker 03

  But I would have not touched the general manager.

• 2:03:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, like so he signs last year, they don't get Alonso. But they get, you know, they get Contreras and they get the two pitchers Suarez and Gray.

• 2:03:13Speaker 03

  Well, let's back.

• 2:03:14Bill Simmons?

  And he spent a lot of money on Suarez and Gray, but those were also two of the best starters available and they just paid for them. I don't, I don't know how much credit you get for that.

• 2:03:22Speaker 03

  Well, but he paid the Alonso money for Suarez.

• 2:03:27Bill Simmons?

  Who we never saw in the Yankee series because we lost the two games.

• 2:03:30Speaker 03

  Exactly. And, and what did Alonso had 41 or 42 homers was a threat every, and, and he never get, seems like he never gets hurt. Contreras, a likable player, always hurt.

• 2:03:44Bill Simmons?

  Well, part of the problem is he stands over home plate daring these pitchers to hit him. I like Contreras. I think that one was a little more defensible, but I just, when I look big picture, the Devers trade, nobody's left. Right? Um, the Roman Anthony extension that they gave, which was a really big commitment that you give if somebody is the all time can't miss. Obviously he's not an all time can't miss. The Christian Campbell money they gave, that was kind of ridiculous. I just don't know if there was enough there. And then, and then a bunch of young people that were, you know, were pretty disappointing. But I, I think he got a lot of mileage from Tully and Early and, you know, this young generation of arms they were able to vote.

• 2:04:25Speaker 03

  I would have rather have seen them stick with Tully, Early and Sonny Gray.

• 2:04:32Bill Simmons?

  Who's probably going to leave now because they yanked him. His quotes after the game were disturbing.

• 2:04:38Speaker 03

  Very understandable though. I mean, if they, they had a, a video of his facial expression when the manager came out to get him.

• 2:04:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:47Speaker 03

  The manager put his hand on his shoulder. I'm surprised he didn't slap it away.

• 2:04:51Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 2:04:51Speaker 03

  I mean, what?

• 2:04:53Bill Simmons?

  Well, especially to bring in Miller out when we had just seen this the night before. It was like, this isn't going to go well. Yeah, the whole thing was, they weren't going to beat the Yankees. They, I mean, the Yankees, because they didn't have Judge, like even for this series, the Yankees were only like minus 170 favorites. And I was saying this out on Sunday night, I was like, I don't get it. Like we can't hit. That's the only way we're going to win is if the pitchers go nuts and this is like 2-1, 1-0. Did you feel, we both hate the Yankees, obviously. Did you feel like this hurt extra because it was the Yankees or this was just we, they just, they were obviously going to win. They had way more talent.

• 2:05:30Speaker 03

  This hurt way extra watching the Yankee fans for two nights in a row.

• 2:05:35Bill Simmons?

  That was my answer as well. I didn't even talk to Jacko. Jacko texted me today. He's like, you all right? You're okay? I was like, ah, I told you we were going to lose. That was bad.

• 2:05:43Speaker 03

  You know, it's funny. I have a, a friend who's a strong Chicago White Sox fan. And, and I was saying that I wish, you know, the, the downside of that streak we had was.

• 2:05:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it pushed us into that Yankee matchup. We were talking about whether we should have tanked. It just brought up all these dudes from the minors.

• 2:06:05Speaker 03

  I mean, Houston looked dead.

• 2:06:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:07Speaker 03

  I, I think I, I would have liked to, I, maybe eventually you have to play the Yankee. I don't know, but.

• 2:06:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Try to avoid them as much as possible. The other thing that hurt was the lockout. Because the one guy they didn't trade to the Orioles for Engelbert was Arias, the, the shortstop who seems like a phenom. And I think it, there was a lot of stuff written about this. If the lockout wasn't happening next year, they would have brought this guy up in September. And I think he would have played much like the Yankees had Lombard, who became a big part of their team down the stretch. I think Arias would have played. I think they would have fit him in somewhere and he would have maybe given them a little bit of a jolt, but they couldn't bring him up. Cause once the lockout happens, you can't even let those guys in the facility.

• 2:06:49Speaker 03

  Maybe, but it wouldn't have helped given the decisions the manager made pitching wise.

• 2:06:55Bill Simmons?

  True.

• 2:06:56Speaker 03

  I mean, it, I, I, it felt like he panicked in the fifth inning of both games. He just panicked.

• 2:07:04Bill Simmons?

  Are you going to give him a nickname like second row Chad?

• 2:07:07Speaker 03

  No, I like the guy. I, I, I like the way the camaraderie, I, I mentioned camaraderie on the bench, brought the team together. Everybody liked each other. Um, they did go south in the month, most of the month of September.

• 2:07:21Bill Simmons?

  Well, I remember when, we went to the game on Friday with, uh, with Zoe and Zoe's boyfriend and Carrie and.

• 2:07:28Speaker 03

  Oh, you did? I, I didn't get invited.

• 2:07:30Bill Simmons?

  You didn't get invited. Not after you wouldn't walk home the other time. But we were, we were, you wouldn't have liked it anyway because the weather was bad. But we had our lineup coming up and these different guys were coming up and Hank and I were being, you know, we're like, oh man, here comes a ground out. This is going to be a strikeout. Trevor Story, Trevor Story struck out all three times in the game we went to, but, and my wife was like, you guys are so negative. Like, why aren't you, why aren't you be more positive about the team? And I was like, because I watched this team. Like we're, we stopped hitting. Like this is not going to happen. We, our bats are dead. This is just the way it's going to be. And, you know, we won that game 2-0. But that was really their only chance. I mean, they, the injuries they had this year, first of all, Tristan, Tristan Cassis. I, I guess he's just gone. He's been gone for two years.

• 2:08:16Speaker 03

  Well, he's like, he's still a Red Sox, but he's still hurt. Yeah.

• 2:08:21Bill Simmons?

  Who misses two straight years? So he's gone.

• 2:08:25Bill Simmons?

  The crochet, we lost basically in April for the whole year. And then you go through the other guys, like people you haven't even thought of probably forever, like Cutter Crawford. Gaspard comes up right as the team's about to die, turns into Babe Ruth for three weeks. And then gets hurt right before the playoffs. He's the one guy I would have trusted in the Yankee series. He's just gone, you know, but.

• 2:08:47Speaker 03

  You know, you're right. With that short right field porch. Um, and, and he gets hurt Friday.

• 2:08:53Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 2:08:54Speaker 03

  Should he have been playing? I don't know. We didn't, we didn't need those games.

• 2:08:58Bill Simmons?

  And then Anthony seems like he got hurt in the very last game where they made everybody fly to Tampa Bay for no reason at all to play the Cubs. But, so big picture.

• 2:09:08Speaker 03

  Well, big, you know, I was talking to a friend, this friend Paul, and we were talking about a year and a half ago. And you and I had the same discussion. We were riding high. We had a franchise quarterback.

• 2:09:23Speaker 03

  Looked like he was going to be a stud for the next 10 years. And we had a franchise, our next Ted Williams, the lefty hitter.

• 2:09:32Bill Simmons?

  Roman Anthony. Right. It's going to start for the WBC for America.

• 2:09:36Speaker 03

  Yeah. And now, and things, and we had a stud leading the Celtics to 78, to 56 wins. And it's funny how in sports, things, things just change. You, you can't count on things anymore.

• 2:09:53Bill Simmons?

  I don't understand why we can't count on Drake May. I don't know what happened there. He was the last person I ever thought we'd be worried about. And yet we watched the game on Sunday together. And then when I was driving around in Boston on Monday, listening to WEI and he had the interview and was talking about his shoulder and.

• 2:10:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:10:14Bill Simmons?

  Just really wouldn't answer questions about it. And then he tried to clarify it yesterday, I guess. I don't know what's going on with him.

• 2:10:21Speaker 03

  I don't know if you saw, but for the first time this season, I think he was on the injury report yesterday for the shoulder.

• 2:10:28Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 2:10:28Speaker 03

  So they, they did put him on the report. I don't know. Yeah. The shoulder is one thing, but I know we switched to football, but it's just this decision-making. It's the funny feet in the pocket. It's, uh, it's not hanging in there the way other quarterbacks hang in there. To have that last second to make the throw.

• 2:10:48Bill Simmons?

  Well, and then the deep throws last year versus this year is the weirdest one to me. He had the best deep ball I've ever watched regularly in my life last year. He was just on it all the time. And this year he's either short or it's all over the place. Or Lasky did a thing today, actually on NFL Live about his, his right foot. And how last year it was pointed out for leverage and this year he's, his feet are straight and he's like, this is bad. This is why his. I, I, I don't know. There could be 19 things. Other, you know, obviously I talked to people and media people. And one of the consensus thoughts is like, this is all in his head.

• 2:11:27Bill Simmons?

  This is just, he got the shit kicked out of him in the playoffs last year by a couple of different defenses in a row who threw all these different things at him.

• 2:11:34Speaker 03

  Well, and we talked about that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we talked about how he, he really got beat up in the playoffs.

• 2:11:42Bill Simmons?

  And, and with way, in, in ways defenses throwing things at him that he hadn't seen. So like this weekend, they played Buffalo, who doesn't have a good defense at all. You know, a team that he's had real success against, and I don't have any confidence at all.

• 2:11:58Speaker 03

  But Jacksonville supposedly didn't have a good defense.

• 2:12:02Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 2:12:03Speaker 03

  And, uh, and they got to him or he thought they were getting to him, which is, which is part of what I'm seeing. He thinks they're getting to him and these wild throws off the back foot often too, which he didn't do last year.

• 2:12:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I think they're going to lose this weekend. AJ Brown will come back and then week five will be the week where they have the come to Jesus week. Where it's like, is this team, is this team going to rally or not? You know? It's not like there's seven AFC playoff teams that we can count up right now. So you can go one and three and be fine. I would expect that they lose this week, but big picture, like the AJ Brown was such a big piece of what they want to do. I also, McDaniel's drives you and I crazy. I don't understand how they're using Henderson at all. Makes no sense to me. They've had a lot of injuries, like even we're taping this today. Gonzalez didn't practice today. He's another, he's another one that it feels like we can't get four straight good weeks out of him in a row.

• 2:13:01Speaker 03

  Is there a reason why McDaniel, McDaniel doesn't have Henderson run wide? I'm, I'm so tired of.

• 2:13:07Bill Simmons?

  Swing passes?

• 2:13:09Speaker 03

  Or swing passes where he's out, out in the open. It's so tiring to watch. First, first down pass, second down.

• 2:13:18Bill Simmons?

  Second down run. Yeah. Run into the line.

• 2:13:20Speaker 03

  Two yard run right into the line. Our line is all beat up. So why are they doing that?

• 2:13:26Speaker 03

  Frustrating. Yeah. Obviously the last two nights were terrible. Uh, I had, and I was pretty positive about our pitching lineup.

• 2:13:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:35Speaker 03

  I liked all three starters.

• 2:13:37Bill Simmons?

  I thought, I thought they were going to win game two. I really thought Gray was going to come through and I thought it was, I thought it could be like a 1-0 or 2-1. I was, I would, I wouldn't say I was confident, but I had higher hopes than game one. I, I just think Schlittler is the best guy in the league. Like he wasn't, we weren't getting hits off him.

• 2:13:52Speaker 03

  He was pretty unhittable.

• 2:13:53Bill Simmons?

  He's ridiculous. Yeah. That's.

• 2:13:55Speaker 03

  But Tully, you know, matched him, except for the one pitch, he matched him 1-0 till he got taken out.

• 2:14:03Bill Simmons?

  How do you feel about the fact that we've had five years of Trevor Story?

• 2:14:09Bill Simmons?

  It's an entire half decade, Trevor Story and his 296 on base and kind of the sad look. I was saying to Hench and my friends on the Red Sox thread, he has the same kind of face and body language of all the guys from the 86 team. Like, he could have totally fit in with Rich Gedman and Bob Stanley and Chiraldy. He just, just feels like something bad's gonna happen when you see him. And as soon as he showed up after the streak, it was like, ah, we're back. I, I just feel like he's the jinx.

• 2:14:41Speaker 03

  I wish he had never come back, but, you know, I, I understand he's a real nice guy.

• 2:14:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he seems like a great teammate.

• 2:14:47Speaker 03

  And he's probably a good family man and a good teammate. But, uh, watching him at bat is, is, it's, it's a struggle to watch him at bat.

• 2:14:58Bill Simmons?

  That was most of the guys. Jaren Duran, Jaren Duran, I think I'm

• 2:15:02Speaker 03

  He's another one.

• 2:15:03Bill Simmons?

  Think I'm good on.

• 2:15:05Speaker 03

  But, you know, that, go back to, we won

• 2:15:09Speaker 03

  15 and then lost two and won nine in a row. It wasn't with Trevor Story.

• 2:15:14Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 2:15:15Speaker 03

  He wasn't part of that picture. And the guys they had, some guys I never heard of until this season, but they seemed to get big hits at the right time. Big hits, meaning they were hitting with guys on base.

• 2:15:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:29Speaker 03

  And suddenly, the month of September, we were not hitting with guys on base.

• 2:15:32Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 2:15:33Speaker 03

  Trevor Story would come up, guys on first and second, second, third. You weren't confident at all that we were gonna get runs.

• 2:15:40Bill Simmons?

  Or IKF was another one. None of these guys.

• 2:15:43Speaker 03

  IKF, I, I don't understand why he's playing.

• 2:15:47Bill Simmons?

  Well, Seigler got hurt.

• 2:15:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:49Bill Simmons?

  It's just, yeah, just everybody got hurt. You'd get used to these guys. I, I can't remember a baseball season quite like it, but I will say, it was the most fun I've had during a season in the, probably in the 2020s.

• 2:16:00Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:16:02Bill Simmons?

  But really, since Mookie left.

• 2:16:04Speaker 03

  Putting the three weeks, last three weeks of September aside, and the last two nights, it was a very, it was a fun comeback. It was a fun season. We probably never deserved to be in the playoffs that we were playing. The downside is, now we have a general manager, like you said, who's, we're stuck with until 19, until 2030.

• 2:16:25Bill Simmons?

  Well, the other downside is the Yankees have a legitimate chance to make the World Series, and they can't win again. It's the one thing we have. We have four this century, they have one. We, we need Tampa Bay to take them down. You need to become a Junior Cameron Arrow fan.

• 2:16:39Speaker 03

  I ordered a Tampa Bay shirt today, so.

• 2:16:41Bill Simmons?

  They were really good. I thought that was the best team we played this year.

• 2:16:45Speaker 03

  They were good.

• 2:16:46Bill Simmons?

  They're just like, they do everything right. And they have an absolutely terrifying main hitter, and they have a really good bullpen. And I, I just thought they're impressive.

• 2:16:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:16:57Bill Simmons?

  So Pats, you're still holding on. And then Celtics starting in less than three weeks.

• 2:17:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, pretty soon.

• 2:17:05Bill Simmons?

  You talked yourself into the Paul George trade. We, we can announce it now.

• 2:17:07Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:17:09Bill Simmons?

  You didn't.

• 2:17:11Speaker 03

  When did I do that?

• 2:17:12Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I thought, I thought you might have. I thought by opening day. I thought you were on a schedule, going to a therapist every day.

• 2:17:18Speaker 03

  I, I wanna see if he plays, how many games he plays this year. I guess that will tell me something. It seems like when he plays, he contributes.

• 2:17:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:29Speaker 03

  But he misses, he missed so many, I know he was suspended 25 games.

• 2:17:32Bill Simmons?

  Says he feels really healthy this year.

• 2:17:36Bill Simmons?

  He's really excited to play off Jason Tatum. He's said all the right things, media day.

• 2:17:40Speaker 03

  He, he has said all the right things.

• 2:17:41Bill Simmons?

  He loves playing off superstars like that.

• 2:17:44Speaker 03

  I like the Robinson addition, obviously. And I like the Garret addition in his 20th year, I think. I, I like the articles. Yeah, he's mentoring Pritchard. They become fast friends, and all of that is good. Maybe we're, we're more well-rounded, I don't know.

• 2:18:01Bill Simmons?

  The vibes are gonna be great on this team. And Detroit will be way worse. Philly's a wild card. Toronto is gonna be the, probably the, the team that jumps into the Detroit spot. I think Toronto's gonna be really good. Cleveland will be around the same. The, the, East is good.

• 2:18:18Speaker 03

  East is good.

• 2:18:18Bill Simmons?

  We're not gonna win 56 games again.

• 2:18:21Speaker 03

  But, yeah, again, it's so early, you don't know about injuries. You don't know about the Greek in Miami, how he'll play if he got hurt again.

• 2:18:29Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 2:18:30Speaker 03

  It's, it's so early. Wouldn't injuries play such a part during the season?

• 2:18:35Bill Simmons?

  Sounds like, sounds like you're like a C+ for excitement for the season.

• 2:18:38Speaker 03

  No, I'm probably a B-. You know, nobody's talking about Tatum, who is still not that far removed from an Achilles injury.

• 2:18:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:47Speaker 03

  Hopefully, he's 100%. I don't know. I hope so.

• 2:18:52Bill Simmons?

  It's your, it's your It's your 33rd year with tickets.

• 2:18:57Speaker 03

  No, it's

• 2:18:58Bill Simmons?

  I mean, your 53rd year.

• 2:18:59Speaker 03

  No, 54th year.

• 2:19:01Bill Simmons?

  54th? 73, 74, so then, oh, it's your 54th year?

• 2:19:07Speaker 03

  Yes, it is.

• 2:19:08Bill Simmons?

  Damn.

• 2:19:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, maybe, except for people who give their tickets after the dad dies to the, or mom dies to the family.

• 2:19:20Bill Simmons?

  You think you're the longest continuous season ticket holder?

• 2:19:23Speaker 03

  Well, I'm certainly up there. I'm certainly up there.

• 2:19:26Bill Simmons?

  God forbid they figured this out. Take them like two minutes.

• 2:19:29Speaker 03

  Maybe I'm the only one who's still thinking and speaking coherently.

• 2:19:35Bill Simmons?

  Still getting upset. I think this team's gonna be good. I, I really, I think they're gonna be fun to watch, and they'll just be a better version of last year's team, but the league's gonna be harder because there's less shit teams.

• 2:19:49Speaker 03

  I'll just segue one quick second. I watched most of two channels the other night. The Bruins looked pretty good in game one.

• 2:19:57Bill Simmons?

  Really?

• 2:19:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:19:59Bill Simmons?

  You're in on them, too?

• 2:20:00Speaker 03

  3-0 shutout, game one.

• 2:20:02Bill Simmons?

  Well, they made the regular season longer. It's 84 games now. You're the only person who watches all 84.

• 2:20:08Speaker 03

  It's a long season, when the first game is in September 30th, I guess. That's weird, but, hey, we got the Patriots, we got the Celtics, we got the Bruins. We had a, for the most part, a great run with the Red Sox until the manager imploded.

• 2:20:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:29Bill Simmons?

  Well, here's what we have with the Pats, if they lose to Buffalo. The next two games are home, Las Vegas and the Jets. Those are both winnable. At Chicago, at Miami, they'll at least split those. Miami's the worst team in the league. Las Vegas is home.

• 2:20:46Speaker 03

  Home, okay.

• 2:20:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, so that, they could be, they could be four and four after eight games. They play Green Bay, week nine. Green Bay's terrible this year. At Detroit, at the Chargers, which seemed like a really hard game, but the Chargers are terrible. Buffalo home, Minnesota home, at Kansas City, at Jets, home Denver, home Miami to end the season.

• 2:21:06Speaker 03

  You know, it's not the schedule. It's, are we gonna see a confident Drake May?

• 2:21:10Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 2:21:11Speaker 03

  Is he gonna, is, is he going to stay in the pocket? Is he going to not make those dumb decisions he's been making? And is, is his shoulder okay? I mean, everybody gets banged up. Is it okay? I guess we'll find out enough in the next couple of weeks.

• 2:21:30Bill Simmons?

  I wonder if we were the year from hell team. I've been thinking about it a lot.

• 2:21:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:21:35Bill Simmons?

  Feels like everything's gone wrong since the Super Bowl, starting the night of the Super Bowl. And all the signs were there, and I chose not to look at them. But I can't think of seven playoff teams in the AFC, so maybe, maybe we have that going for us. Vegas might be good, would be, we'll find out more about Vegas this week, but.

• 2:21:55Speaker 03

  Well, Vegas has played well, and, and they've played well, they've been home, though.

• 2:21:59Bill Simmons?

  Wait, before we go, can you, can you tell people what it was like to try to watch Sunday football with me with the multi-view?

• 2:22:06Speaker 03

  It wasn't, you had, you had four games on the screen, the big screen.

• 2:22:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:11Speaker 03

  And then you had a game on your iPad right in front of me.

• 2:22:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:15Speaker 03

  And you had the sound on only one game, and you kept switching it off the Patriots to other games. And I know when I went downstairs, I took, I think I took four Tylenol. My head was spinning.

• 2:22:28Bill Simmons?

  You did, you left after two hours, less than two hours. You were like, about.

• 2:22:33Speaker 03

  I know that you have to do it, because it's part of what you do, and you have to talk about it Sunday night. But as a fan trying to watch his own team, who's not all that interested in the other teams this early in the season.

• 2:22:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:48Speaker 03

  It was, it was difficult.

• 2:22:50Bill Simmons?

  Well, I would say the good news, it was distracting you from a really horrible Patriots-Jacksonville game.

• 2:22:56Speaker 03

  Uh, yes and no. Yeah, I guess a little bit.

• 2:22:59Bill Simmons?

  Wait, before we go, what, what TV shows are you watching?

• 2:23:03Speaker 03

  Well, the new shows start this week.

• 2:23:05Bill Simmons?

  Okay, so what are we looking forward to?

• 2:23:07Speaker 03

  Oh, we're looking forward to the three Chicago shows, definitely on Wednesday night.

• 2:23:11Bill Simmons?

  What's that, Chicago PD, Fire, and?

• 2:23:14Speaker 03

  And Med.

• 2:23:15Bill Simmons?

  Med, okay.

• 2:23:16Speaker 03

  And then on Tuesday, on, uh, Tuesday night, you have FBI and CIA. Those are, those are pretty good.

• 2:23:21Bill Simmons?

  That's CBS, too?

• 2:23:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, Monday night, you have NCIS and NCIS Origins, which I really like a lot.

• 2:23:30Bill Simmons?

  Wait, what was the show, LL Cool J and Scott Khan, NCIS New York?

• 2:23:35Speaker 03

  NCIS New York is a brand new show, yeah. It's in the lineup.

• 2:23:38Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 2:23:39Speaker 03

  It, it's in my lineup. I'll give it a try.

• 2:23:42Bill Simmons?

  And then, did you watch The Pit, or you didn't?

• 2:23:44Speaker 03

  No, I didn't watch The Pit, but, um, I like the, uh,

• 2:23:50Bill Simmons?

  You like the Taylor Sheridan shows?

• 2:23:52Speaker 03

  US Marshal show?

• 2:23:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:53Speaker 03

  Uh, that, that's pretty good.

• 2:23:59Speaker 03

  In, in the line, or the Line of Fire, or Line of Duty, I can't remember the name of the show, brand new.

• 2:24:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Line of Fire, I think it's called.

• 2:24:06Speaker 03

  Line of Fire, I gave it a try. I'm gonna watch the second episode. I, I, I have no more Red Sox, so I have time for my shows that are starting.

• 2:24:15Bill Simmons?

  It's really sad when, especially when you get in the habit of, of having it on every night, and then it's just gone. But I'll, I'll still, I'll watch the baseball playoffs. We're taping this before the third game of Indiana-Las Vegas for WNBA. WNBA's been really good this week.

• 2:24:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:32Bill Simmons?

  There's some, there's some things to patch it together. You have regular season hockey.

• 2:24:36Speaker 03

  A final thing, though, you just kind of alluded to, to it. It's so hard to watch the 162 games, and you're really into it.

• 2:24:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:45Speaker 03

  You get in the playoffs, and in two games, you're gone.

• 2:24:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:50Speaker 03

  And the two games, you don't get a home game.

• 2:24:55Speaker 03

  I just, and maybe someday, they'll seed them according to records, but you have Houston playing the Chicago White Sox. Houston's the home team. Does that make any sense to you?

• 2:25:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, and they were a 500 team.

• 2:25:09Speaker 03

  Right. They should have seeded the teams, I don't know where we would have ended up, but we wouldn't, wouldn't have started with the Yankees, for sure.

• 2:25:16Bill Simmons?

  It's still better than how we did it in the 70s. We're like, 1978, when we tied the Yankees, then had the playoff game. We had the two best records in the American League, and we didn't even play in the playoffs.

• 2:25:27Speaker 03

  It's better, but how, how hard would it be just to seed them by record in each league?

• 2:25:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, no, the

• 2:25:33Speaker 03

  It's not hard at all.

• 2:25:33Bill Simmons?

  Nobody from the AL West should have hosted a playoff game.

• 2:25:36Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:25:37Bill Simmons?

  I think that's fair. All right, well, uh, good luck to Drake May. Thanks for popping on. I'll see you next week.

• 2:25:43Speaker 03

  Thanks for having me. I'll see you, see you, uh, next week when

• 2:25:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:47Speaker 03

  your daughter's team suddenly starts winning.

• 2:25:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, well, I hope so. Really need to win at this point. All right, bye, Dad.

• 2:25:53Speaker 03

  All right, bye.

• 2:25:55Bill Simmons?

  All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to my dad. Thanks to Tom Pelissero. Thanks to the one and only Joe House. Thanks to Eduardo and Gao, and Chris as well. Enjoy the weekend. I'm gonna be coming back on Sunday, live on Netflix after the Sunday night game. And don't forget to watch Texas Chainsaw Massacre this weekend, because that is gonna be the next rewatchables. Enjoy the weekend. See you Sunday.

• 2:26:38Bill Simmons?

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