Pod Insights The Bill Simmons Podcast Part 2: NBA Trade Team Grades With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre. Plus, Super Bowl LIX Million-Dollar Picks. About this episode In Part 2 of our NBA trade deadline special, The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre share some lingering thoughts right after the deadline, plus more on the Luka Doncic trade, including two appearances from "Conspiracy Bill." They also talk about who the odd teams out in the Western Conference playoff race will be, grade the teams who made trades, and more (1:52). Finally Bill reveals his Million-Dollar Picks for Super Bowl LIX (1:10:45).
Host: Bill Simmons
Guests: Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti
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Transcript 17,563 words · 5 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:01 Bill Simmons? Coming up, part two of the big NBA trade deadline extravaganza next. This episode is brought to you by Expedia. You know how at the end of the season, your team goes to Cancun? Sometimes earlier than expected, sometimes after blowing a 3-1 series lead, but what if you went to Cancun? With Expedia, save up to 30% when you bundle and save. You can book the flight or the hotel now, then book the rest later. In all fairness, though, hopefully your team doesn't go to Cancun. 1-2-3 Cancun. Or if they do, you go with them. Expedia, the one place you go to go places. Sign in to save. Savings vary. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. And whether it's a flea flicker or a tush push, you need a plan that fits your unique situation.
0:45 Bill Simmons? That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you, so they can help personalize coverage for your life and for your budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. We're also brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network. Put up a Before Sunrise rewatchables on Monday. You can watch it on our Ringer Movies YouTube channel. You can also watch me and Sean and Chris doing a trailer reaction to Jurassic Park: Money Grab, the new Jurassic Park movie. I think that's the title. If you missed it, part one of the Trade Deadline Podcast, which we did live on YouTube, which you can follow if you subscribe. Bill Simmons is the YouTube channel. Me, Rob Mahoney, Big Waz. We covered all the angles from the week, and then this is going to be part two, which we basically started recording
1:30 Bill Simmons? right as the trade deadline ended at 3:00 PM ET on Thursday. That is the first part of this podcast. First part of this podcast, then the first part of this podcast. And then after that, I'm going to be doing Million Dollar Picks for a little game they call the Super Bowl. We did not do a lot of football this week, but football was all over the place on the Ringer.com, on the Ringer Podcast Network. We had The Ringer Gaming Show, Ringer NFL, Russillo did some stuff. The Ringer Philly special was great. So if you want football stuff, I would steer you to the pieces in the podcast we did. And sometimes it's just one of those weeks. I really wanted to do a podcast on Tuesday night. I thought Durant was getting traded to Golden State, so I paused
2:13 Bill Simmons? it and then the window passed and we ended up doing a two parter for today. This is part two. First, our friends from Pro Gym.
2:41 Bill Simmons? Okay, so it's part two right now officially is 1201 PT. And we're going to talk a lot about the Lakers down the road. Once we know all the trades. The big thing we're waiting up, there's been another trade. Shom says Indiana trading James Wiseman and cash to the Toronto Raptors. He can't walk. He blew out his Achilles. So that's our first one.
3:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:06 Bill Simmons? But we're on Grizzlies watch now because they're clearly up to something. They're dumping salary and creating cap room for some reason.
3:12 Speaker 01 And roster spots, it feels like.
3:14 Bill Simmons? Is it Cam Johnson, maybe?
3:16 Speaker 01 I mean, they've been linked to Cam Johnson for sure. He makes a lot of sense for them.
3:19 Bill Simmons? What are your Cam Johnson? What's your Cam Johnson feelings?
3:23 Speaker 01 Very much like him as a player. I think he has been now appropriately placed. Now that we've had the Luca craziness, we've had De'Aaron Fox, we've had Jimmy Butler, everything has cooled down. Cam Johnson is a really good player who could help a bunch of different teams, including the Memphis Grizzlies. And now that is the context in which he lives.
3:39 Speaker 02 Yeah, he's not the kind of guy that you just stick him on a great wing and think, oh, it's gonna be fine. He's not. The D part of the three and D is.
3:48 Speaker 01 No.
3:48 Speaker 02 I think we finally like, let it go. He's a good, he shoots the hell out of the ball. Variety of ways to get a shot off, which I think is going to be important for Memphis. And he's respectable on defense. Like that's.
4:02 Bill Simmons? I like that we're putting him in the Grizzlies now. This is fun. Yeah, I think Memphis, he's gonna help them with shooting.
4:06 Speaker 02 If.
4:07 Bill Simmons? No, no.
4:08 Speaker 01 Well, but this is the kind of thing where I don't know to what extent these conversations could be linked, but if the Bucks could have gotten in on Cam Johnson instead of Kyle Kuzma, like that's the kind of fit it honestly might be.
4:19 Speaker 02 Too high.
4:20 Bill Simmons? Well, I mean.
4:21 Speaker 01 Brooklyn just doesn't trade any.
4:22 Bill Simmons? Kuzma's been kicking ass this year.
4:24 Speaker 02 You guys are gonna ruin the day. You laughed about the Kyle Kuzma deal.
4:30 Bill Simmons? I mean, when you can get a minus 59 plus minus in one game, you've really accomplished something. I have a quick Nets take before we find out the rest of their trades. Do they really need to do anything else? I kind of like Cam Johnson. I kind of like Nick Claxton. They're gonna suck anyway.
4:45 Speaker 01 Sure.
4:45 Bill Simmons? They're gonna be a bottom 10 team, which is their goal. And why not just keep those guys and keep them as assets for the, for the, for the summer? I'd rather do that.
4:55 Speaker 01 I don't think there's a tremendous amount of urgency. I think they do have the option to play out some things. There are a couple of guys, like Cam Thomas is sort of the one that comes to mind. Do you really want to be paying free agent Cam Thomas?
5:08 Bill Simmons? Probably not.
5:09 Speaker 01 But, you know, he's also a tougher sell for a lot of different teams in the first place. He has his own injury concerns that winning teams that are trying to contend right now might not want to take a flyer on something like that. So the guys that I look at for Brooklyn are more like, oh, is there not a way you can flip D-Lo again? Is there not a market for Cam Thomas? How do you really feel about Dayron Sharp? Why not?
5:30 Bill Simmons? D-Lo and Schroder, just start just trading them for each other. Was, I didn't want to bring this up because I don't want to spoil the mood because we're having a good time. I know Ben Simmons being traded on trade deadline as an expiring contract was a dream for you. And it feels like the dream is dying right now. What would have been your dream Ben Simmons team?
5:50 Speaker 02 The dream Ben Simmons team?
5:54 Bill Simmons? To the team that gets him and is like, I don't know, we'll see what he has. Maybe he could be an asset.
5:59 Speaker 02 Who are those teams? There's gotta be like a Charlotte. It's gotta be a Portland. It's gotta be a team that's like going absolutely nowhere fast.
6:09 Bill Simmons? Portland right now, they're on fire.
6:11 Speaker 02 You know, uh, what, like, who is the team that says, Ben Simmons, let's take a flyer on this?
6:16 Bill Simmons? I was thinking with Charlotte just losing their mind, he would have been like a fun LaMelo Ball kind of combo.
6:23 Speaker 01 I mean, they got time to kill at this point.
6:25 Bill Simmons? They got so much.
6:26 Speaker 01 Can I share something kind of funny with you guys? After all of these moves, the Wizards are now officially over the first apron. I mean, when you have a chance to really pay out the nose for a roster, that is technically true at the moment.
6:36 Bill Simmons? Just because they wanted to acquire 100 second round picks?
6:39 Speaker 01 Took on a bunch of picks, took on a bunch of money. Congratulations to the Wizards for winning the first apron championship.
6:44 Bill Simmons? And if you're over the first apron, what does that do exactly?
6:46 Speaker 01 For them, basically nothing at the moment. It just kind of limits the ways in which you can acquire players. I don't, and I think by the time that the summer rolls over enough of that money will come off that it won't prevent them from like getting somebody in a sign and trade or something like that.
7:00 Bill Simmons? Apparently, Shams said on TV that they are not moving Kevin Durant to Suns.
7:03 Speaker 01 Okay.
7:05 Bill Simmons? I wonder if they were ever really interested in moving Kevin Durant and I wonder if anyone in Ishbia's conference room was like, you, we're gonna trade Kevin Durant and get Jimmy Butler back? What are we doing?
7:17 Speaker 02 No, I don't think.
7:17 Bill Simmons? Why are we doing that?
7:19 Speaker 01 That seemed like a pipe dream for the Heat.
7:20 Bill Simmons? That was, that was. I think that was the Golden State trade, though.
7:25 Speaker 01 That was, that was their attempt was to make it a three-way deal.
7:27 Bill Simmons? But I think, I think if he wanted to go to Golden State, I think that trade was probably happening in some form. And there was the, Phoenix was getting Butler and some, maybe, maybe the protected pick from Golden State or whatever else.
7:39 Speaker 01 But if you are Phoenix's part of that, that's what we're saying. Like, the Beal for Butler conversation makes sense. The Durant trade, lose Kevin Durant and replace him with Jimmy Butler.
7:47 Bill Simmons? But that's what I'm saying. I think they were gonna do it, though.
7:51 Speaker 01 That's.
7:51 Bill Simmons? Which if I was a Suns fan, I would just be alarmed.
7:55 Speaker 01 I think they should be alarmed for many reasons.
7:57 Bill Simmons? Yeah. You know, Rob, that's a great point. The Suns fans, the alarms are going off either way. Uh, we do not have, the Knicks are not making a trade. So, all right. So, let's start the Lakers part of this conversation and then if anything else happens, we'll just audible and stop and keep going. So, the Lakers trade, Connect. I don't know if he's gonna get a 30 for 30 for his 50 Laker games or what's gonna happen, but it was a roller coaster ride. He seemed like the steal of the draft. I think I have a podcast somewhere where I was shitting on Miami for taking Ware over Connect. It's probably somewhere in my archives.
8:38 Speaker 01 Let's just delete that.
8:40 Bill Simmons? But, uh, so they turn Connect, Cam Reddish, who I think is just 24 years old for the next 10 years. I don't know if he ages. And then a 2031 first and a swap. And they bring Mark Williams back. The swap, whatever. Is Charlotte ever gonna have?
8:55 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:56 Bill Simmons? Come on. Uh, and then, um, the 2031 first for a team that is almost definitely gonna have Luka Doncic on it.
9:05 Speaker 01 Maybe.
9:05 Bill Simmons? Probably.
9:06 Speaker 01 Probably.
9:06 Bill Simmons? At 31 years old, probably. I'm not doing backflips about that. Why would they trade Mark Williams, a young center who has really played well the last six weeks? Is this offer like just too good to refuse? What was it?
9:21 Speaker 01 I really like Mark Williams, the basketball player. Mark Williams, the injury risk scares the hell out of me.
9:26 Bill Simmons? You mean the 85 career games in three years?
9:29 Speaker 01 He has played less than 40% of his games.
9:32 Bill Simmons? And he's had like three ankle things. He's had a back thing, broke his thumb, not his fault. The back thing was probably the most concerning. Then they said he had some sort of foot issue that they feel good about. So that's the risk.
9:46 Speaker 01 It's one of these things where I get why Charlotte would look at this offer and say, you know what? Maybe we just get out of the Mark Williams business. We like him. We like what he's brought. We like his potential, but ultimately maybe he's just too risky. And between connect and the pick and the swap, that's enough value. And I also honestly do get it from the Lakers. You know, they're not going to have many chances to take swings on players this young and this promising.
10:08 Bill Simmons? Cheap contract, like five, six million?
10:09 Speaker 01 Cheap contract, but it's going to come up sooner than you think because he's already been in the league and hurt for so long. And he's going to be just a hell of a lob target for Luka Doncic. Just an incredible finisher, already a pretty good rebounder, really needs to figure it out defensively. But as far as a team that can grow and build around Luka, that's, that's a great place to start.
10:27 Bill Simmons? So we know this because we're on the West Coast. The East Coast teams that start playing at four o'clock in the afternoon here. And you're like, oh, basketball's on. And then it's like Pistons, Hornets, Wizards, Hornets. Literally the games. And for whatever reason, most of the bad teams this year in the East, and those are the teams playing at four o'clock. So there's some people probably talking out of their ass about Mark Williams, but I think we've all probably watched him. And I've definitely watched the Hornets recently and noticed how good Mark Williams was. And they had, there was a Denver game, Jokic got all his stats, but Mark Williams was also getting stats. And I liked them coming out of college.
11:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
11:09 Bill Simmons? I think one of the reasons they traded Nick Richards was they felt like he was ready to be a guy. And he was a guy. And he was like lob guy. Who knows with the defense? He's been on bad teams. We have no idea.
11:20 Speaker 01 It's true.
11:20 Bill Simmons? Lob guy, gets 2012 basically every night and is exactly the kind of guy the Lakers needed. I thought it was a good trade. They gave up a lot, but I liked it.
11:30 Speaker 02 I'm a little bit more lukewarm on it just because I think the price was high. In terms of that 2031, everybody's like looking at that as the one.
11:39 Speaker 01 And that is kind of their one shot was like, I guess they still have Austin Reeves. They could move Reeves at some point, but connect and the pick. And I guess to some extent the swap were their primary catalyst.
11:49 Speaker 02 So I think that was, that was pretty high. And I think with Luca, building around him, I think you should be thinking defense first. And Mark Williams is an offense first player. We get it. He's a huge guy. Like he's like in the Rudy Gobert category in terms of like length and size and all of that stuff. But he has never shown to be like a great defensive kind of guy in his limited.
12:13 Bill Simmons? You know why he's never shown it? Cause he's played 85 games.
12:17 Speaker 01 It all makes sense.
12:17 Speaker 02 And that's the thing, like maybe he's going to turn into this defensive monster, this rim protecting beast that he hasn't shown yet. Cause he does have the tools. He's not very mobile, but I just think with Luca, you should be thinking defense first and offense like with Luca, like you just don't have to be that great. In order to make it work around everything that he does. And so that's the only.
12:38 Bill Simmons? He's like seven feet, two 50.
12:40 Speaker 01 Yeah. And a crazy athlete, like really, really athletic. And most importantly, he is not Jackson Hayes. So huge upgrade right out of the gate.
12:47 Bill Simmons? As you guys know, it's, it's, I have to always do a disclaimer. I hate the Lakers and I don't want them to succeed. I saw this trade. I thought they gave up a lot for a guy who we don't need, has not even played a hundred career games yet. But deep down I was like, fuck. Mark Williams is good. He's a good player. And I was just the fun, the Celtics fan side of me was like, fuck that guy. So now I think about the Lakers in a series. And I really want to talk about this.
13:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:15 Bill Simmons? Size, they're gonna, they're gonna play with a certain pace with Luca and LeBron.
13:20 Speaker 02 Oh, slow.
13:20 Bill Simmons? It's gonna be slow, methodical. They're gonna be big.
13:26 Bill Simmons? And it's the kind of team, if I'm OKC, I'm not pumped about playing. A team that's going to be able to try to dictate the pace against us, that's going to throw big bodies all over the place. And it's like, we're going to take Mark Williams out. Now, all of a sudden, we have LeBron, Luca and Rui Hachimura as our bigs. Like, they're always going to have size and length basically everywhere except the point guard position. But I don't think in the playoffs-
13:47 Speaker 01 Even at the point, like Austin Reeves is a big point, or Luca, whoever you want to consider to be the point guard.
13:51 Bill Simmons? And in the playoffs, like Luca just might be the point guard. They might just be Luca, LeBron, two wings and Mark Williams, and that's their crunch time lineup. I'd be really scared of this team in the playoffs.
14:00 Speaker 02 The only thing about the Lakers is you gotta do have to think about the defense because it's like, is LeBron guarding threes full time? You got Luca as a defender-
14:08 Bill Simmons? He doesn't guard one, two, three, four or fives.
14:10 Speaker 02 You got Austin Reeves, and you got Mark Williams. Like, it's not the greatest defensive situation happening there, but like Luca and LeBron figuring out your little postseason defense, that's scary.
14:25 Bill Simmons? Yeah, when, you know, people, people try to zag on the trade, like, how are those guys going to play together? They both have the ball all the time. And it's like, I'm positive they're going to figure this out.
14:34 Speaker 01 Not worried about it.
14:35 Speaker 02 LeBron and Luca are going to figure out how to play offense.
14:36 Bill Simmons? Who has the smallest guy in them, you or me? Oh, you do. All right, you're going to have the ball now.
14:41 Speaker 02 Bludgeon him to death.
14:42 Speaker 01 Also, low key, Luca, I thought was a pretty good sport about playing off the ball more this season in general, like had actually started to make some meaningful improvement in that part of his game. LeBron can obviously do it. These are brilliant players. It's not going to be a problem in terms of the offense. And you're right, the thing that we talked about is maybe the most important skill set in basketball is how do you break down half court defense? And can you score one on one against anybody?
15:03 Speaker 02 Definitely.
15:04 Speaker 01 They have guys who can do that at an incredibly high level.
15:07 Bill Simmons? Two of the most brilliant basketball players of this century. They're now together. They have a team that, that the worry is where we don't have enough size. How are we going to guard people? You know Vanderbilt.
15:21 Speaker 01 Finney Smith.
15:21 Bill Simmons? Finney Smith. No, we'd be like, all right, if we're playing some hot wing in a playoff series, do we have somebody that we can at least cover them with? They have that. I don't think they're gonna be able to guard point guards at all.
15:32 Speaker 02 No.
15:33 Bill Simmons? So like you pick a point guard, that guy's dust in them.
15:35 Speaker 02 Play a team that wants to spread you out because again LeBron, Luka getting spread out like.
15:41 Bill Simmons? But first two runs in the playoffs, like it's, it's like three, four. It really doesn't get to conference finals when it's every other day. And I think they could make the conference finals. Like, I can't believe how things have flipped. It makes me wanna pull one of my kidneys out and whip it against the fucking wall. But they're gonna be really hard to play. And if I look at like OKC number one, who's number two?
16:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
16:04 Bill Simmons? For playoffs, who has the ability to do this? The Lakers are the first choice.
16:10 Speaker 02 Denver's still my first choice, but again, like you're gonna have to pry Denver out of my cold dying hands, right?
16:16 Bill Simmons? So maybe, maybe they're two B. Yeah. Lakers, Denver, two A, two B and some.
16:20 Speaker 02 Houston is so young. The offense is like, you still gotta make shots.
16:24 Speaker 01 The Grizzlies are a sure.
16:26 Speaker 02 No, the, the Grizzlies.
16:27 Speaker 01 Come on, guys. I think the Grizz are gonna be really good in the, even in a playoff. They have a lot to prove, as all these teams do, the Lakers included. Like, we need to have the Lakers guard.
16:35 Speaker 02 Ja is taking all his time off. He's saving his body.
16:38 Speaker 01 I hope you're right. I hope you're right.
16:40 Bill Simmons? That's where, uh, that's where my train gets off.
16:44 Speaker 02 The Grizzlies?
16:45 Bill Simmons? No, with the Ja thing. I just, he's just not playing basketball enough.
16:49 Speaker 02 Got you.
16:50 Bill Simmons? And it feels like they're beholden to him and the potential of what he can do, but he's just not doing it regularly. And so I think that's probably the team that has the, the upside ceiling.
17:01 Speaker 01 Yes, they could.
17:02 Bill Simmons? But if I'm just betting, I'm taking Denver and the Lakers are the two.
17:06 Speaker 02 Another Laker thing with this trade, I think they're betting majorly on free agency in 2026. And I looked at it, it is a blank. You can look it up. It's like a bunch of older guys and the number one prize is Jaren Jackson, which.
17:21 Speaker 02 I'm not doing, I'm not doing that. I'm not putting the Laker jersey on Jaren Jackson. I'm just saying LeBron might be done. Obviously, he's good.
17:32 Bill Simmons? To grow up a Laker fan is one of those?
17:34 Speaker 02 No, no, no, no. I'm just saying he is the, the main target of pretty much every team in the league at this point.
17:41 Bill Simmons? But I think that's why they did the smart trade though, because I think Memphis is trying to give him a massive extension. By the way, he might be an all NBA guy.
17:49 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think he's in the running.
17:50 Bill Simmons? Yeah, like he could be.
17:51 Speaker 01 A tremendous season.
17:53 Speaker 02 But the rest of the guys in 2026, which I think the Lakers are also banking on that they're going to bring in a major talent in 2026 as well, that summer.
18:01 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Let's take a, we'll take a quick break for the podcast.
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20:20 Bill Simmons? This episode is brought to you by Core Power Protein Shakes. You know how we always talk about the little things that separate great athletes? Post-workout recovery is a big factor. Core Power Protein Shakes help you keep going after your workout with high-quality protein to build muscle and electrolytes to help hydrate. It's all you need for your recovery. One bottle, available in 26 and 42 gram protein options to pick what works best for you. Visit corepower.com to learn more. I'm going to read you the Western Conference odds. OKC is plus 105. Who do you think is the number two best odds in the West right now?
20:58 Speaker 01 Probably the Lakers, just because everyone bets on the Lakers, I would think.
21:01 Bill Simmons? What do you have, Wes?
21:02 Speaker 02 I would go Memphis.
21:06 Bill Simmons? So Denver is second at 6-1. Who do you think is number three?
21:13 Speaker 01 I'm assuming it's, I'm just going to keep saying the Lakers until they show up.
21:17 Bill Simmons? Lakers plus 750. So basically what we said before, the gambling public also agrees, Grizzlies are fourth.
21:24 Speaker 02 People seen that Laker, people seen that Luka trade and just said, yeah, I need it.
21:28 Bill Simmons? Grizzlies fourth at 11-1.
21:31 Bill Simmons? Houston, I'm sorry, Clippers 16 to 1.
21:34 Speaker 01 And this is to win the West?
21:35 Bill Simmons? Win the West.
21:35 Speaker 02 Clippers are above the Rockets to win the West?
21:38 Bill Simmons? 18 to 1. You know why they're above the Rockets? Cause everyone's seen these fucking crunch time Fred VanVliet plays. Nobody can watch them anymore. How many, how many, how many terrible step back threes can you have in one season?
21:50 Speaker 01 Leave Fred alone.
21:51 Bill Simmons? How many? I like Fred, but how is that your offense at the end of games?
21:54 Speaker 01 It shouldn't be, it shouldn't be. He's, he's turned out to be like quite critical to making them functional.
21:58 Bill Simmons? Do they draw those up in the huddle?
22:01 Speaker 01 I don't think that's the move.
22:02 Bill Simmons? Fred step back three again. We're, we're, we're only down two.
22:05 Speaker 02 He's miscast in his role as number one crunch time.
22:08 Bill Simmons? I think he thinks he's the guy on the team though.
22:11 Speaker 02 But often like who is going to create?
22:14 Bill Simmons? I'm just spreading the floor for Thompson and just get to the basket somehow.
22:17 Speaker 02 Maybe that's where they get to.
22:18 Bill Simmons? Just get to the basket.
22:19 Speaker 02 He may can't, he's not gonna bring himself to be like a men Thompson is now our freaking crunch time.
22:26 Bill Simmons? Or Jalen Green, one of those guys. Spread the floor.
22:28 Speaker 02 Jalen Green is the one.
22:29 Speaker 01 No, you lost me at Jalen Green. Look, he's had great moments.
22:33 Speaker 02 Rob has hated Jalen Green.
22:33 Bill Simmons? I'm just going to the basket over the Fred VanVliet step back. I can't do it again.
22:37 Speaker 01 I, I feel that, I feel that. I think Amen right now is thriving in chaos. Anytime the floor is unstable, unbalanced, unsettled, he's so good. Set half court defense coming out of a timeout, drive with a guy right in your face. Not quite his game yet.
22:50 Bill Simmons? Houston 18 to 1, Golden State 20 to 1. Minnesota 23 to 1, interesting, cause they have a chance to be a top five team.
22:58 Speaker 01 I want to say this too, there's a difference I would say between the odds to win the West and the odds to also make the conference finals alongside the Thunder. I don't think Memphis can beat OKC in a way that you can talk yourself into the Lakers. You could talk yourself into Denver. You can see the way their advantages profile.
23:14 Speaker 02 The, the, the, the size advantage and the sort of mind advantage of, you know, execute, out executing this really young team. Who's still only ever done the second round last year. Uh, you could see it's a Memphis is not going to have the IQ advantage in any series that they're in. It's just not going to be the case.
23:34 Bill Simmons? They're super young and relying on dudes that have never been there. So I haven't done a podcast since Sunday night with Goldsberry. And definitely not since the press conference, which I know, I think you guys talked about. Didn't you guys agree to that?
23:48 Speaker 01 Yeah, the Nico Harrison press conference?
23:50 Bill Simmons? No, the Luca press conference.
23:50 Speaker 01 Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. We, well, actually we didn't talk about that.
23:53 Bill Simmons? You didn't talk about that?
23:53 Speaker 01 No, no. You want to talk leather jackets or what? What do you want? What do you want to go?
23:58 Bill Simmons? I've been obviously like you guys talking a lot about this Luka trade the last few days. And so if you're in the room with Nico Harrison and he, he bring, first of all, let's live in the facade of the world where nobody knew about this trade except Nico Harrison, the Mavs owner, Jeannie Buss and Polinka. We'll, we'll, we'll be in that pretend world where LeBron didn't know and, and Rich Paul didn't know and Jason Kidd didn't know. Let's, we'll be in that pretend world that didn't actually exist. And you're actually in the room and Nico Harrison is like getting close. We might do this. Did anyone around him at some point say, don't do this. You're going to trade Luca to the Lakers. All the things that frustrate you about him, all you're doing is putting a giant fucking
24:43 Bill Simmons? chip on his shoulder and he's going to turn into Liam Neeson in the second half of Taken and be fucking awesome for the Lakers. You have to factor that in the trade. You're not trading this guy now who has 280 pounds in December and you know, as he's kind of, maybe he's kind of a dick to people. Who knows? Who knows what the reasons are? But just, this is what, this is what will be the result of the trade is this fucking maniac on the Lakers trying to get his vengeance year after year on you and the Mavs. Don't do this. And I don't think anyone said that to him.
25:14 Speaker 02 I think the Luca having issues with his body and his conditioning.
25:22 Bill Simmons? He's 25.
25:22 Speaker 02 It bothers people who, Jason Kidd, who was a great player himself, been around greatness, hyper competitive guy has, yo, talk about calling Luca out. Nobody in the history of Luca's career has done more publicly to call Luca out. I remember him saying, I'm not the savior. I'm not the one who people call the savior of the franchise. Like Jason Kidd and Nico Harrison, who again is a big Kobe guy. And you think about the way Kobe comported himself and took his superstardom so seriously.
25:55 Speaker 01 Eventually came to comport himself. Didn't start out that way.
25:58 Bill Simmons? Sure. The revisionist history of that one. We've just thrown out the entire mid 2000s.
26:03 Speaker 02 But, but that's the thing though, like he was around Kobe when he was that maniacal person. I think there's just like a boy king factor where it's, you just feel like this, we can't get Luca to do these things now. Why wouldn't we guarantee him $350 million? Is he going to do it?
26:19 Bill Simmons? Cause he's Luka Doncic? Cause he's off to one of the best five starts in the first seven years.
26:26 Speaker 02 I I'm playing devil's advocate here. I could see a bunch of hyper competitive people being like, this guy's just the next Embiid. He's never gonna do the requisite things to get his body in check. He's never gonna actually be on the floor for us. We get it. He took us to the finals, but he just doesn't care enough about this extra stuff. And so let's get out of this business. I don't agree.
26:48 Speaker 01 Rob, that's just, it's such a narrow view of what greatness looks like. Of that it basically has to look like Kobe Bryant's like basically fake work.
26:56 Speaker 02 I don't, I disagree. Look at Steph Curry. Look at LeBron. Look at um Jokic. He, look at what he did to get his conditioning and all of his stuff right. Like the best players actually do this.
27:08 Speaker 01 I I don't disagree with you, but like you could look at Giannis' injury history. And that's a guy who takes great care of himself, who puts incredible work on his game, on his body. Some guys get hurt and some guys get hurt for reasons that have nothing really to do with whatever their conditioning is, or whatever state their body is in. And honestly, the problem with the Embiid comp, and it's come up a lot. Like this is sort of the primary defense you hear is a Joel Embiid comparison for Luka Doncic.
27:30 Bill Simmons? Plays half of the games in his career.
27:32 Speaker 01 Also, Luca has our, Luca at his best is better than Joel Embiid has ever been. And he has done more in the playoffs than Joel Embiid has ever done.
27:40 Bill Simmons? Nine months ago.
27:41 Speaker 01 Nine months.
27:42 Speaker 02 That's the thing. I also think going to the finals is the thing for me. It's like, he's, he's put it on, he's put it on the floor. Like that he has it in him to carry a team to the freaking finals. Like, he's 25.
27:56 Bill Simmons? He's 25. He's not the person, human being slash work ethic guy he's gonna be.
28:01 Speaker 01 Yeah.
28:02 Bill Simmons? We've seen people, I know I made a shitload of mistakes in my mid twenties. I'm sure you guys did too. Things you would take back. We've seen it with athletes over and over again, including Kobe Bryant, by the way. Mid twenties aren't, if the talent is there and the competitiveness is there, which it has been the entire time with this dude. And your only thing is, ah, I wish he was in better shape. I wish maybe he treated people around here a little bit better like those aren't real reasons to trade him and and I just think they did him the all time favor you could see in the press conference he looked miserable no he looks shell shocked dude he looked like he couldn't believe this happened and I just think I maybe it's because I'm older and I've I've been
28:44 Bill Simmons? down this this road a few times in sports like I just think he's I would bet anything he's gonna be awesome on the Lakers I just think this is the kind of thing sometimes guys need it's like the cattle prime and that's it
28:56 Speaker 01 and again their bet the Mavericks have effectively bet not just by trading away Luca but by bringing back a Lakers pick as the primary future return of the deal that this will not work
29:05 Bill Simmons? or that he's gonna leave
29:06 Speaker 01 or that he's gonna leave I think I think both of those things are bad bets and in to put yourself in Luca's shoes oh boy
29:13 Bill Simmons? oh my god conspiracy bills back it's almost like they think he's headed somewhere in the summer of 2026 and that's why they wanted that 20
29:25 Speaker 01 but also they and Luca have said
29:28 Bill Simmons? like they're it's like a like they know something
29:32 Speaker 01 they're on Nico Harrison is now on the record as saying there was no indication that Luca from him or any of his representatives would not have taken the super max
29:40 Speaker 02 he's though but he's kind of talked out of both sides of his mouth on the
29:44 Speaker 01 well Luca also basically laughed at the question when it was presented to him of did you ever say that you were not gonna take the super like why would he turn down over a hundred million dollars to continue playing for the team that he just took to the NBA finals
29:59 Speaker 02 a couple guys have
30:00 Bill Simmons? because he likes Florida maybe
30:02 Speaker 02 AD did it in New Orleans AD asked for his trade before he could sign his big super max in New Orleans Kawhi did it to San Antonio yeah so there are guys who have done it before there's no indication that Luca was headed down that path
30:21 Speaker 01 We have, we have so little evidence or justification for this trade. You have to invent reasons why it could be valid.
30:27 Speaker 02 Our memories are kind of short too, because remember before the, the Gafford deal, the PJ Washington deal, that was like a big part of the chatter around Luca. Dallas needs to do something right now to prove the Luka Doncic that he needs to stay here. But so it wasn't that long ago.
30:42 Bill Simmons? That's like the lazy NBA discourse of they gotta, blah, blah, blah.
30:45 Speaker 02 Man, I think it was people that were plugged in with like, they need to prove that they're building a winner. That was a big part of the combo.
30:51 Bill Simmons? Is it possible Luca's just not from this country and sometimes an organization of mostly American people that couldn't really get a handle on a guy from Slovenia? Like, does it seem like Denver has a handle on Jokic?
31:03 Speaker 01 I mean, Nikola Jokic could retire this summer and I wouldn't be surprised.
31:06 Bill Simmons? If you talk to anybody who is either remotely associated with the Nuggets, they're like, that guy can fucking retire in two months and none of us would be shocked. So.
31:14 Speaker 01 And his jersey would go up in the rafters and still be one of the greatest players of all time.
31:18 Speaker 02 Like we're doing the two like Eastern Bloc guys, but like.
31:22 Bill Simmons? But I'm saying obviously.
31:23 Speaker 02 Jokic is different.
31:24 Bill Simmons? But there was a disconnect with the organization and their best player and it's come out ever since and they had no problem.
31:31 Speaker 01 Yeah.
31:31 Bill Simmons? Especially when they realized how unpopular the trade was. They had no problem leaking stuff out left and right, including stuff I'm not going to say in the pod. But the, uh, the, the, the fact that they kept this trade secret because they knew their fans were going to be so upset about it.
31:48 Speaker 01 Yeah.
31:49 Bill Simmons? That the moment it leaked, there was going to be such a reaction against it that the owners would have backed out. Should tell you, you're making the wrong trade.
31:57 Speaker 01 Probably should.
31:58 Bill Simmons? That's, that's all I need to know. It's like, hey, we have to keep this between us. It can't get out. Why can't it get out? What would be the bad thing about it getting out? Because then more teams would offer stuff for Luka Doncic. No, it can't get out because you don't want the Mavs fan base to have a riot outside the arena.
32:14 Speaker 02 Here's the thing, again, I personally would have signed the guy, then tried to move him if I hated his, his professional work habits so much. That's what I think they should have did. However. If you are of the mind, you put together a team that went to the finals last year, you have a guy who cannot play and you think if you bring in an all NBA level player, that you are going to continue to be a championship worthy type of squad. I don't agree, but I don't think it's the craziest thing that you could say.
32:43 Speaker 01 It is a little bit if you put the ages of those players into the conversation.
32:47 Speaker 02 If you're prioritizing this year, looping Luca and his agent and everybody and does not help you. They start telling teams, no, don't do it. No, it actually does start to handicap the amount of teams.
33:02 Speaker 01 I hear you.
33:02 Speaker 02 You can go about moving to. So if you, if you're going on Nico Harrison's idea of what, how good Dallas could be this year, it actually makes sense. I just think he's wrong.
33:13 Bill Simmons? He's gonna be in France with David Kahn in like two years. That's where it's headed for him.
33:18 Speaker 01 What, what gets me about this is you don't trade Luka Doncic, period. That's a failure. The decision to trade him because you don't like what basically are these puffs of smoke about his work habits and his conditioning, not real actual basketball factors.
33:34 Bill Simmons? And then also in the finals last year when Windhorse had the rant after game three, because Luca acted immaturely and caused those moments.
33:40 Speaker 01 Absolutely. That absolutely happens. The real thing that's a part of his game. I still would not trade him for any of those reasons. If you did decide to trade him, keeping it secret, not lobbying offers. And I, I hear you that for this season, that would be complicated. So play out this season, a season in which Luka Doncic is going to be a better basketball player than Anthony Davis, provided that he's healthy and back on the court. Play it out and then once you get him under contract for the super max, ask Crawford.
34:06 Speaker 02 But then that becomes another thing, like how, you, you can't bring Luka Doncic back after you put him on the trade market.
34:13 Speaker 01 If your assumption is that he wants to leave, then it's all part of the same process.
34:17 Bill Simmons? It's a scare, it's a scare tactic. Can we bring back in conspiracy bill? Let's do it one more time.
34:22 Speaker 01 So it's getting a workout today.
34:25 Bill Simmons? So the Mavs, Cuban sells the team, which was fishing to begin with. He was always like, I'm Mavs owner for life. And all of a sudden he's like, yeah, I'm selling, sells it to this, this Vegas group that has gambling ties, all this stuff. The league greenlights it. Did the league say, this is why conspiracy bill is sometimes he's on crack.
34:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:48 Bill Simmons? Did the league say, well, we'll greenlight the team, but you gotta trade Luca to the Lakers in two years.
34:53 Speaker 02 So, so that's, that's.
34:56 Speaker 01 This is coming from a place of deep hurt. I can tell conspiracy bill also wearing green.
35:00 Bill Simmons? Conspiracy, this is Q non, Q non bills here.
35:03 Speaker 02 That is another part of this. That's like Mavs ownership group is completely out to lunch on this.
35:11 Bill Simmons? Or are they, or are they, or they have a much?
35:14 Speaker 02 How do you put your stamp of approval on this?
35:17 Bill Simmons? Or are they, or are they hoping they just swap teams with the Vegas expansion in a couple of years and get the F out of Dallas?
35:23 Speaker 02 I don't, I mean, Vegas in terms of a market is not even close to Dallas.
35:27 Speaker 01 Not even comparable market sizes. No.
35:30 Speaker 02 Planet, like Vegas need to be compared themselves to Memphis.
35:33 Bill Simmons? It's funny that this trade happened five days ago and we're still struggling to understand a reason.
35:38 Speaker 01 We're at the level of like, looking at the Texas state legislative calendar to figure out when, when betting should become legal.
35:44 Bill Simmons? You realize what's gonna happen? Like five days from now, seven days from now, Luca's gonna have like 59 points in a game. And people are gonna be like, what just happened? How did we allow this trade? We're gonna move into that.
35:59 Speaker 02 Have you seen the Anthony Edwards sound? Where he's just like, guys, he kicked our asses to get to the finals. This guy is a stone cold killer.
36:09 Speaker 01 Yeah. That's Anthony Edwards.
36:11 Speaker 02 If this guy can be traded, like, bro, please don't trade me. If you could trade Luka Doncic.
36:18 Bill Simmons? So his next games, he's, so if he comes back Saturday, and I'm sure he's being a menace.
36:22 Speaker 01 I believe he's expected to come back Saturday at this point.
36:25 Bill Simmons? But figure, so rest of the schedule is Indiana, Utah, at Utah.
36:31 Bill Simmons? Home Charlotte, February 19th. That has 70 written all over it. At Portland, at Denver, home Dallas. Oh my God, home Dallas.
36:39 Speaker 01 I think they have two games left.
36:41 Bill Simmons? So February 25th, Dallas, and then Minnesota Clippers. He's gonna have like 59 in one of those. There's gonna be a game when we just all lose our minds that this happened.
36:51 Speaker 02 By the way, he had a tough start to the season for Luka standards.
36:55 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
36:55 Speaker 02 Felt like he wasn't, you know, didn't come to camp. And you know how a lot of the guys, best shape of my life, blah, blah, blah, 10% body fat. We didn't hear any of those rumors about Luka coming into camp.
37:07 Speaker 01 But the tough start is 28, 8 and 8.
37:09 Speaker 02 Yeah.
37:10 Speaker 01 That's a tough start for Luka Doncic, you know?
37:12 Speaker 02 33, 9 and 9 in the conference finals last year.
37:15 Speaker 01 What are we doing? What are we doing?
37:18 Speaker 02 He traded Scott to the Lakers. Oh.
37:22 Bill Simmons? My dad called me the next, cause he was asleep and the trade happened. My dad was terrified. He was terrified of Luka in the finals and he hates the Lakers more than I do. And he just, he said he got all these texts and he woke up the next day and thought, thought we made a trade, the Celtics, and then saw that was a trade. He was like, I, like, I don't, like, how did they not stop this? Like, yeah, now we have to deal with Luka, who's gonna be pissed off and humbled and, uh, big picture.
37:53 Bill Simmons? I don't want to see them in a playoff series if I'm anyone in the West.
37:56 Speaker 01 No, and that has changed dramatically.
37:58 Bill Simmons? Would not have said that about the Lakers.
37:59 Speaker 02 No.
37:59 Bill Simmons? Three weeks ago, that Knicks game when LeBron was starting to look better. I was like, oh, when Davis comes back, this team's interesting. I could see them maybe winning around and throwing some punches around too. And now this is the team that LeBron James at age 40 now has a chance to make the finals again.
38:14 Speaker 01 Well, it's a classic, like Anthony Davis raises your floor, Luka Doncic raises the fuck out of your ceiling.
38:19 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he knocks out the ceiling.
38:20 Speaker 01 Completely.
38:21 Bill Simmons? And you, you have no idea what to expect.
38:22 Speaker 02 And Denver, OKC are the only two teams you can credibly say Luka won't be the best player in the series. Head and shoulders, by the way. And then, you know, he's got LeBron backing him up. Pretty good. Pretty, pretty good.
38:36 Bill Simmons? Yeah, and you go through the rest of the West. I like this Clippers team, but, uh, the fact that they went backwards, I don't, Harden in a playoff series, I don't see it. Minnesota, mess. Phoenix, no way. Dallas is a possible wild card and Golden State is a possible wild card. And that's really it, unless Wemby just...
38:58 Bill Simmons? Does something absolutely all time insane.
39:01 Speaker 01 It would be shock, not shocking if the Spurs make the playoffs. If they advance would be pretty surprising.
39:05 Bill Simmons? That would be a huge mega upset.
39:07 Speaker 01 They have so many young guys, they need to learn a lot. Like the Warriors are a team that I could envision making it through to the second round. Not a run run, but keeping competitive, scaring somebody a little bit. That could be a thing.
39:18 Bill Simmons? Jimmy Butler was something to prove.
39:20 Speaker 01 Yep.
39:20 Bill Simmons? It's something I want to bet on.
39:22 Speaker 01 Quentin Post.
39:23 Bill Simmons? Was.
39:27 Bill Simmons? Was, can you walk us through the Jimmy Butler, Draymond Green text messages?
39:33 Bill Simmons? Lot of profanity. What Draymond does sends the first text, right? Definitely Draymond sends the first. Like a let's get it exclamation point? It's more like we're gonna rip people's faces off, chew them up, spit them out, kill them. They're a bunch of P words. These guys have nothing on us. It's about time we got together. Like we're talking about two of the ultimate like confidence maniacs that have ever existed in the NBA. They, I think we're together in the 2016 Olympics.
40:07 Bill Simmons? I, I think they're good.
40:09 Speaker 01 I'm not worried, like I see a lot of chatter about, oh my God, these two big personalities.
40:13 Bill Simmons? Off of each other.
40:14 Speaker 01 The people Jimmy Butler doesn't like are not the Draymond Green types. They're, they're the people that he sees as like timid or unreliable. And like Draymond shows up.
40:23 Bill Simmons? Andrew Wiggins type.
40:24 Speaker 01 The young Andrew Wiggins.
40:26 Bill Simmons? Yes.
40:27 Speaker 01 Pre, pre Warriors revolution, Andrew Wiggins.
40:29 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he's like, I think it'll be fine. I would say Draymond's short term, probably a bigger risk to everything than Butler. Because then he Butler will be on his best behavior for the season at the very least. And he'll probably come to Golden State. Maybe he'll launch a podcast with the Ringer, who knows?
40:48 Speaker 01 Invest in AI.
40:50 Bill Simmons? Bring them in.
40:50 Speaker 01 Move some coffee, like he's got stuff to do.
40:52 Bill Simmons? Maybe invest in Draymond Green's restaurant. Get his agent on a podcast. Bernie, that guy's got a lot to say.
40:58 Speaker 01 Character of the year.
41:02 Bill Simmons? So if you had wild card teams and I gave you Golden State and I gave you Dallas, for one of those two teams will be in the Western Finals, which one would you pick?
41:12 Speaker 02 Golden State.
41:12 Bill Simmons? I would take Golden State. Over Dallas?
41:14 Speaker 02 Golden State.
41:15 Bill Simmons? So you just think the stink of this trade is gonna submarine Dallas this season?
41:18 Speaker 02 Like Jimmy Butler and Steph's playoff pedigree and like level that these guys have gotten to, even if they don't get to what they've been, anywhere in that neighborhood is just no.
41:32 Bill Simmons? I think the part that, I mean Nico Harrison, there are many parts he missed with the trade. I don't think he realized what a distraction slash disaster slash running, running story this was gonna be, especially if Luka starts playing well for the Lakers.
41:45 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah.
41:46 Bill Simmons? It's gonna single-handedly submarine their season, I think.
41:48 Speaker 01 It's gonna follow him and the team for the rest of his career as a general manager, I would think. We'll see what it ends up doing to the Mavs. My concern is not just, oh, you gave away Luka Doncic. It's really hard to make long playoff runs when you basically have no plus level passers on your roster. And if you look at what the Mavs lineup is gonna be now, AD at the four, either Lively or Gafford at the five, Kyrie is now your primary and basically only creator, Klay Thompson, PJ Washington. How are you breaking people down beyond Kyrie just going Uncle Drew one on one?
42:18 Bill Simmons? The funniest thing about the trade is that they built this whole roster around Luka. All these dudes that were meant to fit with him and then they trade Luka.
42:26 Speaker 02 And like even those lineups where you're benching both Lively and Gafford and you're playing AD at his most optimal position, it's still Kyrie making that pick and roll happen? And that's just not.
42:39 Bill Simmons? And Kyrie, we know, and I think Kyrie's been really good the last couple of years, but.
42:44 Speaker 02 He's lost his stuff.
42:44 Bill Simmons? I also think you can, like the Celtics, the big thing when Luka fouled out in game three and it was like, all right, Kyrie, take us home. The Celtics shut him down.
42:51 Speaker 02 Yeah.
42:52 Bill Simmons? And you can shut him down with, with wings and size and if you know he's getting the ball, it's not the same Kyrie from five, six years ago. Davis, you know, Davis can be overpowering. Maybe he'll have a chip on his shoulder. I don't know.
43:04 Speaker 02 Depending on the matchup, like there's matchups that he overwhelms where like he can be that one-on-one guy. But for, you know, for the most part, it's not gonna happen.
43:14 Speaker 02 Bill still very upset about the Luca trade.
43:20 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I don't know if it's because I'm older and I just know how it's going to play out because I've seen it. But you know, same like it was similar to when Shaq got traded to Miami and it was like Shaq's out of shape. Shaq's fat and it's like, cool. He's not going to be fat anymore because you pissed him off. And then he went to Miami and he had two awesome years for them. If I had to go four West teams that I don't think are going to make it.
43:42 Bill Simmons? San Antonio. Sacramento.
43:47 Speaker 02 Those are my odd men out.
43:49 Bill Simmons? Phoenix.
43:53 Bill Simmons? Dallas because I think that I think that the karma and all that shit from the trade, those would be my four.
43:58 Speaker 02 If Kyrie goes down, it's toast.
44:02 Speaker 01 And he has a bulging disc in his back at this moment.
44:04 Speaker 02 It's toast. PJ Washington is going to be creating offense. You know, like Spencer Dinwiddie, who's been a nice backup this year, by the way. But he got signed for a minimum contract for a reason. Like I like Spencer Diddy. Diddy, Spencer Dinwiddie.
44:25 Speaker 02 But I, I just, I can't.
44:26 Bill Simmons? You're going to have to edit that out of the pod because actually they said Diddy. I'm not sure we're allowed to say that on a podcast.
44:31 Speaker 01 I think the Clippers might slide out. I say that with all due respect, all due respect to the season they've had. I just think they could be a candidate.
44:38 Speaker 02 They're overachieving like hell.
44:41 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think they probably will end up as a play in team, but maybe get bounced out of that group.
44:44 Speaker 02 And they haven't had one part of the season where they've had like lose five out of seven or like they haven't done that. They've just been consistently solid all year. They're due.
44:57 Bill Simmons? Philadelphia before we go.
45:01 Bill Simmons? Just seemed like they're shedding salary, maybe to pay Yabu in the, in the summer.
45:05 Speaker 01 As they should.
45:06 Bill Simmons? Most popular sixer. Four points maxing.
45:09 Speaker 01 One of their best players.
45:10 Speaker 02 Going to make the play in.
45:12 Speaker 01 Are they?
45:14 Speaker 02 Yes.
45:14 Bill Simmons? Wes, how'd you feel about Embiid missing the Boston and Denver games, but being ready for Dallas and Danu Gafford and no Luca?
45:21 Speaker 02 That's not really like him. He's always like for the big regular season matches.
45:24 Bill Simmons? Did that jump out to you or no? The Dallas game, he was ready.
45:28 Speaker 02 Look, man, um, this really, I feel very, very privileged to be at the table with two bona fide Embiid skeptics for a long, long time.
45:37 Bill Simmons? I've been, just play basketball. It's one of my rules. If you're a basketball player, play basketball.
45:41 Speaker 02 I gotta give it up to my guy Ben Golliver. He was actually the first person to point this out to me. He's like, oh, this, nobody, like, it's never his fault. It's, it's Tobias Harris. It's, it's Ben Simmons. It's.
45:52 Speaker 01 Brett Brown.
45:53 Speaker 02 Brett Brown. It's Sam Hinkie. It's, it's, it's always somebody else's fault. And now everybody's like, hmm.
46:00 Speaker 01 Bill has come due.
46:01 Speaker 02 Yeah. It's tough. But no, the Bulls are, the Bulls are in the 10th seed and they're one game above the Sixers right now. They're done.
46:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's fair.
46:09 Speaker 02 The Bull season is, is.
46:10 Speaker 01 You don't think, you don't think Pat Williams is gonna save these guys?
46:13 Speaker 02 I don't think Pat Williams is coming to the rescue. And the Hawks are.
46:17 Speaker 01 Counter?
46:18 Speaker 02 What was that?
46:19 Bill Simmons? I like Budzellis.
46:21 Speaker 01 Well, sure. But do you like him as a player who's gonna cement a play in?
46:25 Bill Simmons? I wonder if they can patch together a lot of Levine's stats with the guys they have. If Lonzo can play more minutes, Budzellis can be pretty good. Um, they kept Vucevic.
46:36 Speaker 01 They did.
46:37 Speaker 02 I think it's just a Kobe White, just shooting more.
46:40 Bill Simmons? Kobe White get more, like, I, I do feel like they can patch together 24 points a game from other people.
46:46 Speaker 02 I think the Bulls are done. And I don't think they wanna be, you know.
46:50 Bill Simmons? Well, they wanna be in the bottom 10, right? That's one of the teams that has the.
46:53 Speaker 02 They have the incentive, but you know, they got their pick back.
46:57 Speaker 01 They did get their pick back. Nothing sweeter.
47:01 Bill Simmons? Well, I mean, so Philly.
47:02 Speaker 02 If you love something, let it go. When it comes back to you.
47:07 Bill Simmons? Philly, um, Philly beats Dallas. Embiid looks good. Doesn't play the next night against Miami. And they end up losing to Miami by seven. Paul, Paul George didn't play either. Oh, no, he played 32 minutes and had nine points and one rebound and two assists.
47:22 Speaker 02 Are we doing worse contracts in the league this year?
47:25 Bill Simmons? You fucking better believe we are. He's in the running for number one pick.
47:30 Speaker 01 That's tough. Newly minted too. Not even, didn't take any time to age into milk, you know, just.
47:36 Bill Simmons? He's, there should be a Twitter account, Twitter account that just says, I, that the name of the account is, I don't understand why you're not playing tonight. And it could just be like, John Rant's not playing because, you know, his heel hurts. Paul George knee rest maintenance. Like these excuses these dudes have, the Paul George thing's really rough.
47:55 Speaker 01 They did get Quentin Grimes.
47:58 Speaker 01 I don't like, as far as trading Caleb Martin for Quentin Grimes, a better, younger player.
48:03 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I didn't understand that trade for, from Dallas's side.
48:07 Speaker 02 That's when I started getting scared for Nico Harris.
48:09 Speaker 01 Well, Jason Kidd hasn't trusted Grimes all year. At least that's the way it appears.
48:12 Speaker 02 What do you think that is though?
48:13 Speaker 01 I don't, cheap scorer. He can guard. He can guard. He can play. I thought he's off the dribble game. Has that actually been pretty useful? I don't, I never really got why he wasn't more of the, of like a fixture in the rotation of Dallas.
48:24 Speaker 02 I'm pretty sure I fell in love with Quentin Grimes the same summer league. I thought Matt McClung could, could stick on a team.
48:29 Speaker 01 That dream is still alive.
48:33 Speaker 01 Osceola magic stand up.
48:36 Bill Simmons? Was, how are you feeling with all the Lakers moving? Is, uh, is there a spot for Bronny now in the 10 man rotation or no?
48:44 Speaker 02 Still gotta pay his dues in the G League. Probably won't be on the playoff roster.
48:50 Bill Simmons? Okay.
48:50 Speaker 02 But it's early. He's signed a four year deal, Bill, so.
48:55 Bill Simmons? It's a marathon, not a sprint.
48:56 Speaker 02 It's a marathon, not a sprint with the great Bronny James.
49:00 Bill Simmons? Any last things before we go, Rob?
49:02 Speaker 01 I just can't believe we're still here with the Suns. I can't believe they didn't, like, they moved Usir Nurkic, all that spinning of their wheels. And we're just gonna have to watch them like try to get better by doing what exactly? I don't know.
49:16 Speaker 02 Ryan having KD more regularly.
49:17 Speaker 01 I mean, I mean, he's been pretty healthy. Like, I know he's out with the ankle thing right now, but like had pretty good health by Kevin Durant, modern standards. I guess you're just banking on some members of your rotation to play better, to somehow guard better. I just, I'm, I'm very disappointed by where Phoenix's season has ended up at this point.
49:34 Bill Simmons? Well, I mean, it could be worse. They could have given away Mikal Bridges and Cam Johnson and seven first round picks.
49:42 Speaker 01 They could have.
49:43 Bill Simmons? I still, I'll never get over them just throwing Cam Johnson in that trade. On top of everything else they were giving up and, and then Ishbe was, we gotta get him. All right, fine. Throw in Cam Johnson. Like, that part was nuts.
49:55 Speaker 02 He was thirsty, man. He had that new owner thirst. He had that look.
49:59 Bill Simmons? It's great. It's the opposite of the look that new owners of the Mavericks have.
50:03 Speaker 01 I've never.
50:04 Bill Simmons? To antagonize the fanbase.
50:07 Speaker 01 I've never seen anything like it.
50:08 Bill Simmons? Yeah, you know, a few Mavs fans, right?
50:10 Speaker 01 They're devastated. There's, I've never seen a fanbase this inconsolable and I get it. I completely get it.
50:17 Speaker 02 Also, like, if you know anything about their new owner, she's like, got her hands in things.
50:23 Speaker 01 She's got her hands, yeah. There's a lot of involvement.
50:25 Speaker 02 More than basketball.
50:26 Speaker 01 I want to say.
50:26 Speaker 02 She's a busy woman.
50:27 Speaker 01 As far as the fanbase part of it goes, I thought, uh, Josh Bo of Mavs Moneyball made a point that I thought was really well stated, which is that part of what makes this really hard, if you're a Mavs fan, is that you, for this trade to be successful for the Mavs, you basically have to root against, like, Luca has to fail for this to be a Maverick success. And this is the guy they've invested so much time, so much attention, so much like fan adoration in, and now you have to actively root against that guy if you want the Mavericks to be good again.
50:54 Bill Simmons? I just don't get it.
50:57 Bill Simmons? I just don't understand it.
50:58 Speaker 01 You and us and the rest of the NBA.
51:00 Bill Simmons? I just don't get it.
51:03 Bill Simmons? And the sad thing is, at least for me, loves the Celtics.
51:10 Bill Simmons? I think he's gonna be awesome on the Lakers. I think the fans are gonna love him.
51:13 Speaker 02 Oh, my God.
51:14 Bill Simmons? There's always been a weird LeBron thing, cause he followed Kobe, cause he wasn't a Laker.
51:19 Speaker 02 No baggage for Luca.
51:20 Bill Simmons? It's zero. It's like, I had a couple of people say to me that it was like their version of like when JFK got shot, like hearing the news. Like, they'll remember, I mean, in a good way.
51:32 Speaker 02 Damn.
51:32 Bill Simmons? No, no, in a good way, where they'll always remember where they were. I was at dinner and I got a text. Like, it's like one of those trades that you always remember for the rest of your life.
51:42 Speaker 01 Other points in history, we could refer to other than JFK getting shot.
51:47 Speaker 02 For me, it evoked the decision.
51:49 Speaker 01 Okay.
51:49 Speaker 02 For me.
51:49 Speaker 01 Yes.
51:50 Speaker 02 Like, I'm going to remember exactly what.
51:52 Speaker 01 But we knew the decision was coming.
51:54 Speaker 02 Yeah.
51:54 Speaker 01 And we knew Miami was possible.
51:56 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
51:56 Speaker 02 I just remember looking at the TV and being like. LeBron is on the Miami Heat. This is with D Wade and Chris Bosh.
52:04 Speaker 01 Yeah, brought to you by Vitamin Water.
52:06 Bill Simmons? Yeah, normally, normally when you
52:07 Speaker 02 My man Jim Gray.
52:09 Bill Simmons? Normally, when you remember where you were, it's usually because something terrible happened.
52:13 Speaker 01 That's true.
52:13 Bill Simmons? Or something completely insane happened. Like, I remember where I watched the second Holyfield Tyson fight, you know, it was like, this is insane. I'll always remember this. But the Luca out of nowhere, just hanging out on the couch with my wife about to start a movie on a Saturday night. And then just trying to decipher what was real for 10 minutes, like for 10 minutes trying to, and Shams having to reassure people that the trade happened.
52:38 Speaker 02 I'm telling the truth.
52:39 Bill Simmons? There's never gonna be another moment like that. Cause we had some other weird shit in the NBA this last decade. Like, we had that, a really fun one was the Deandre Jordan to the Mavericks and then he wasn't gonna go to the Mavericks.
52:50 Speaker 01 The hostage crisis.
52:50 Bill Simmons? Yes. The Anthony Davis, uh, not Anthony Davis, Kawhi Leonard.
52:54 Speaker 02 Yes, Lakers or Clippers.
52:56 Bill Simmons? And then on that Friday night, all of a sudden it was Paul George too. And, but never without warning.
53:01 Speaker 02 Yeah.
53:02 Bill Simmons? And I think, like I was saying, like, people are making lists about, was this the craziest sports trade ever? I'm not gonna compare this to the Red Sox trading Babe Ruth to the Yankees. That's fucking crazy.
53:11 Speaker 01 Sure.
53:12 Bill Simmons? But it's certainly like, since we've all been working together, the craziest thing that's happened. I think it's the craziest trade that's happened since I've had like a column or a podcast. So that's 30 years.
53:22 Speaker 01 Well, it's also the craziest that you can't compare it to something like the Babe Ruth trade for obvious reasons, but also we are so trade pilled now.
53:29 Speaker 02 Yeah, no trade makes, like, you would just say Jimmy Butler, who cares? I don't need to do an emergency podcast. Like, no trade shocks you like.
53:38 Speaker 01 Well, when a deal goes down, it's like, oh, we already know the three players who are probably involved for salary reasons. We've worked it out. It's been trade machine to death. If you're one of the apron teams, we basically already know what the deal is gonna be by the time it's made. This was a complete shock in an inexplicable move.
53:52 Speaker 02 Player for player. Pick exchanged, done.
53:57 Speaker 01 Yep, it's gonna go great.
53:59 Bill Simmons? We had some good ones in the 90s and it kind of brought me back. Like, I remember being on the phone with House after they traded Chris Webber for Mitch Richmond and he was just disconsolate. Even though Chris Webber was kind of a disaster on the Wizards, but it was still one of those trades where you just knew the upside for us is we might win round one. And the downside is Chris Webber might go to the Kings and be awesome. He's like 25. And this was like 100 times worse than that.
54:24 Speaker 02 One of the, one of those for me that I vaguely remember is the Knicks getting Sprewell. Because it was his first team after he choked out.
54:32 Bill Simmons? Right.
54:32 Speaker 02 Jay Carlisle.
54:33 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
54:34 Speaker 02 And it was like, wow, New York media was not behind.
54:39 Speaker 02 So, you know, they weren't crazy about it, but like, I just wouldn't be like, damn, they got Sprewell? That's, that's nuts.
54:46 Bill Simmons? Couple of questions from the chat before we go. Someone asks, how is LeBron gonna handle not being the most popular guy in his own basketball team? Which has never happened.
54:56 Speaker 02 So, not being the most powerful guy.
54:59 Speaker 01 That's a change.
55:00 Speaker 02 He is less relevant. This is the first time he's been less relevant than somebody in his organization ever besides Pat Riley. That's it. That's the only other time he's been on a team where there's a guy who's clearly above him in the pecking order. In terms of like, you can't tell ownership, anything like, there's nothing you can do about this guy. Luka, like you, you're, you're irrelevant. In comparison to Luka, like it's a Luka, you're living in Luka's world.
55:26 Bill Simmons? Or LeBron because of the way his brain works and the skills that he has will just figure out an awesome way to be. Not, not quite a sidekick, but like, a 1A, 1B type thing.
55:38 Speaker 02 This is now. We're a united front.
55:40 Bill Simmons? He'll treat this like a buddy cop movie, which was the way they tried to do it the first year with Wade.
55:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
55:44 Bill Simmons? In 2011.
55:45 Speaker 01 Joint media availability every time.
55:47 Bill Simmons? In 2011. Like, those guys.
55:49 Speaker 02 So good.
55:49 Bill Simmons? Those guys were equal as great players that year. LeBron was better the two years before, but, but I, you know, that was the last time we've seen at least somebody at the same.
55:58 Speaker 02 Yes.
56:00 Bill Simmons? Length of them. I think it's interesting that it's a teammate that has a lot of the same bad habits LeBron has. Luca not too interested in defense, LeBron uninterested in defense.
56:10 Speaker 01 Well, he's been interested when he's.
56:11 Bill Simmons? No, right now, age 40.
56:14 Speaker 01 Both of them. If you're 40 plus, defense is optional. Like, that's just, that's one of the, one of the rules.
56:18 Bill Simmons? Both of them can be a little bit, guys, I got it. Can you clear out for me at this stage of their careers? How they navigate that, but I, I have no doubt that they're gonna navigate it.
56:26 Speaker 01 But I think it's the discrepancy between these things where I think LeBron is still wildly more popular than Luka Doncic. Luka Doncic is a huge institution to basketball sickos like us.
56:36 Bill Simmons? Yes.
56:36 Speaker 01 To the outside world, it's not even comparable.
56:38 Bill Simmons? That won't be the case for very long.
56:40 Speaker 01 That is true. So that Luka is gonna move.
56:43 Bill Simmons? Someone on the YouTube chat asked for trade grades before we go. Hunter to the Cavs. Cavs, what's the grade?
56:49 Speaker 02 B plus, B, B, B, B.
56:52 Speaker 01 For the Cavs?
56:53 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
56:53 Speaker 01 I think B is fair.
56:55 Bill Simmons? I'm gonna go B plus. I like Hunter for the Hawks.
57:00 Speaker 02 B minus. I like, that's a nothing move. That's a backwards move.
57:04 Speaker 01 I might go C, just because I don't, I don't see the urgency of it.
57:07 Bill Simmons? Laverne, two second round, three second round picks, two swaps. D minus.
57:14 Bill Simmons? Butler to Golden State. Uh, Golden State, I have A minus.
57:17 Speaker 01 That's fair.
57:19 Speaker 02 A minus.
57:20 Speaker 01 Maybe, maybe even a solid A. Like, you have one objective and it's to make a Steph Curry team as good as you can.
57:25 Speaker 02 Star. When Jimmy's right, he's a star.
57:28 Bill Simmons? I said it wasn't a hail Mary, but it was third and 13 to A.J. Brown in double coverage.
57:34 Speaker 02 100%.
57:35 Bill Simmons? It's double coverage. Let's hope A.J. Brown gets to make the play or pass interference. We're trying to get some sort of thing to happen. Uh, for Miami, what do you got, Wes?
57:44 Speaker 02 Miami, this is A plus, honestly.
57:47 Speaker 01 This is A plus?
57:48 Speaker 02 A plus. What were they gonna get for Jimmy who no longer wants to be around them?
57:52 Speaker 01 I think for the Miami grade, you have to factor in the longer saga.
57:55 Speaker 02 He's done.
57:56 Speaker 01 You have to trade him in the offseason.
57:58 Speaker 02 Okay, well, okay, we're factoring that.
58:00 Speaker 01 I think that's part of the deal.
58:01 Speaker 02 Oh, then.
58:02 Speaker 01 Like, they should, they should have traded him last summer. Yeah.
58:05 Speaker 02 Then D.
58:05 Speaker 01 I think, I think it's probably a D.
58:07 Speaker 02 Their handling of the Jimmy situation as a whole?
58:10 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
58:10 Speaker 02 Oh, D, F.
58:12 Speaker 01 I want to say it's a D.
58:13 Speaker 02 You gotta go to summer school.
58:14 Speaker 01 And also, they might still be the fourth seed in the Eastern Conference by the end of the year. Like, I think both things are true.
58:19 Speaker 02 But the deal is like, as the world exists right now.
58:22 Speaker 01 Yeah.
58:23 Speaker 02 After Jimmy just tanked his value, after like, you literally couldn't bring the guy back.
58:28 Speaker 01 Yep.
58:28 Speaker 02 Okay, but like, no, the way they handled, managed the Jimmy situation, F. Sorry, Pat.
58:32 Bill Simmons? A minus for the trade, F minus for the last six months.
58:36 Speaker 02 Yes.
58:36 Bill Simmons? And F minus for Jimmy, too. Nobody, nobody covered themselves in glory. Mark Williams to the Lakers. What do you got, Moni? Lakers, great.
58:46 Speaker 01 B minus.
58:48 Bill Simmons? Was?
58:49 Speaker 02 B minus for me as well. I think they, they kind of jumped the gun on this one, a little bit. For a guy who's very unproven.
58:56 Speaker 01 They clearly identified a player they really like, and I like him too. I, I just am very spooked by his overall injury. Love, the level of consistent injury concern with multiple parts of his body is concerning.
59:08 Bill Simmons? I'm going B plus. I think LeBron takes him under his wing, introduces him to the versa climber. And some Pilates shit and all the other stuff LeBron does.
59:18 Speaker 01 The people say this about Christian Wood, they say like, we, we've had that.
59:22 Bill Simmons? Here's the thing though, I don't mind trading for injured, injured guys from shitty franchises, although Charlotte seems like they've turned it around a little bit, but this is a guy, he's going from like, worst possible franchise you could be on, although they turned around with Charles Lee at least this year to now Lakers, big spotlight. But I'm going B plus just because he really jumped out of the TV the last few weeks, like.
59:45 Speaker 01 He's good.
59:46 Bill Simmons? He was noticeably impactful on, on both ends, even though I'm not positive he knows what he's doing on defense, but he's big, he's got size, he leans on people. If he's around where the rebound is, he's getting it, like I just think he's a good player.
59:59 Speaker 02 I want to say this too, Rob Pelinka is not a good deal maker, but the Lakers.
1:00:04 Bill Simmons? No, we can't say that anymore because he, he stole Luka Doncic from.
1:00:08 Speaker 02 Stop it.
1:00:08 Bill Simmons? He Jedi mind tricked his buddy.
1:00:10 Speaker 02 Stop it. The Lakers' ability to like, recognize talent, young people that have some level of talent.
1:00:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:00:18 Speaker 02 More to give.
1:00:19 Speaker 01 They scouted well.
1:00:19 Speaker 02 They're pretty good at that.
1:00:21 Bill Simmons? Uh, Charlotte grade? What do you got, Mara?
1:00:26 Speaker 02 B plus.
1:00:26 Speaker 01 I'm gonna go just straight B.
1:00:28 Speaker 02 B plus.
1:00:29 Speaker 01 It's, it's, the only reason it's tough for me is like Charlotte is a team that should be betting on upside, given where they are in their cycle. And so for them to fail.
1:00:36 Speaker 02 They've had the guy in their building.
1:00:37 Speaker 01 They've, they've been through it. I, I give them that. But like Dalton Connect is not an upside prospect.
1:00:41 Speaker 02 Dalton Connect is older than Mark Williams.
1:00:44 Speaker 01 It's not what you want.
1:00:45 Bill Simmons? Not only is he older, he's like two, three years older, I think.
1:00:48 Speaker 01 Oof.
1:00:48 Bill Simmons? I think he's like almost 25.
1:00:49 Speaker 02 Yeah, he's, um, he's, he's, he's a senior citizen rookie.
1:00:53 Bill Simmons? I'm going, uh, I really wanted to do a D minus, but I'm gonna go C minus because I think Mark Williams was hurting their plan to get Cooper flag at all costs. When he's putting up 25 and 16.
1:01:05 Speaker 01 Too good.
1:01:05 Bill Simmons? On certain nights.
1:01:06 Speaker 01 Too good to be a Hornet.
1:01:07 Bill Simmons? Off the roster.
1:01:08 Speaker 01 Gotta get Yusuf Nurkic in there.
1:01:09 Bill Simmons? But you make the key point. Like if you're a young up and coming team, you kinda want the 22 year old guy who's two years away from being a free agent, who's put up huge stats.
1:01:18 Speaker 01 Like you can afford to see if he can get healthy, if you're the Hornets, uh, even more so than the Lakers can, frankly.
1:01:24 Bill Simmons? My fear with the Lakers, if I'm them, is like, why is Charlotte trading this guy? It's like, hey, you wanna buy my car?
1:01:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:01:30 Bill Simmons? No, it's going, it's running great. Did you see? We just took, here's some pictures of the road trip we just went on. Car's doing good. Uh, next trade, Brandon Ingram to Toronto. I'm gonna start and for Toronto, it's a D.
1:01:44 Speaker 02 D.
1:01:45 Speaker 01 D minus.
1:01:46 Speaker 02 D.
1:01:46 Speaker 01 I, I don't have any understanding of why this deal is happening.
1:01:50 Bill Simmons? Masai flew too close to the sun with the title.
1:01:52 Speaker 02 Dude.
1:01:53 Bill Simmons? He's been the same since. Uh, for New Orleans, eh?
1:01:57 Speaker 01 They got, New Orleans, if you told me a week ago, the Pelicans got a first round pick for Brandon Ingram. I'm giving him the standing ovation. That's like an, that's a B, B plus, B plus from me.
1:02:07 Bill Simmons? Is Bruce Brown a buyout guy? And could he be a Denver Nugget?
1:02:11 Speaker 01 Ooh, now we're talking. Now we're, now we're cooking.
1:02:14 Bill Simmons? Ooh, I like Bruce Brown.
1:02:15 Speaker 01 I like Bruce Brown too. He's, he started putting together a little bit. Kelly Olynyk too, a player who I, I kinda thought might get rerouted by the actual deadline.
1:02:22 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:02:22 Speaker 01 Also could be a buyout candidate, but they need bigs there. So maybe not.
1:02:26 Bill Simmons? Bruce Brown, like athletic feature a month from now, headline money isn't everything.
1:02:31 Speaker 01 Hmm.
1:02:31 Bill Simmons? About Bruce Brown's tough last two years after winning the title.
1:02:35 Speaker 01 But it was.
1:02:35 Bill Simmons? Was it worth it?
1:02:36 Speaker 01 If he gets the money and still gets to go back to Denver.
1:02:38 Bill Simmons? Yeah, there you go.
1:02:40 Speaker 01 You get, you can have it all.
1:02:41 Bill Simmons? Middleton, Kuzma, uh, I'll start. Milwaukee, F plus.
1:02:47 Bill Simmons? Not quite an F minus, but an F plus. Cause I've watched Kuzma play basketball this year.
1:02:51 Speaker 01 I didn't know they gave F pluses.
1:02:53 Speaker 02 Solid B for me.
1:02:54 Bill Simmons? Well, they got under the cap.
1:02:56 Speaker 02 Solid.
1:02:57 Speaker 01 The last Kuzma fan.
1:02:58 Speaker 02 Solidly B.
1:03:00 Bill Simmons? What planet are you living on?
1:03:01 Speaker 02 I think Kuzma won. He like looks like a crazy person with the way he dresses and the hair and the tattoos. He's actually a pretty grounded dude.
1:03:10 Speaker 01 He posts about RFK Junior all the time.
1:03:14 Speaker 02 Not a.
1:03:14 Speaker 01 This is your grounded dude?
1:03:16 Speaker 02 Lot of reasonable people are RFK heads, believe it or not.
1:03:20 Speaker 01 Alright, alright.
1:03:20 Speaker 02 Sorry.
1:03:21 Bill Simmons? Fluoride?
1:03:22 Speaker 02 We don't, we don't, we don't, look. We don't have to agree with everybody who loves RFK, even if we don't.
1:03:29 Speaker 01 I'm not the person propping up Kyle Kuzma as the voice of moderation and good sense.
1:03:33 Bill Simmons? I know after two hours, we'd end up in a Kyle Kuzma fight.
1:03:36 Speaker 02 Basketball. Kuz is gonna get it done, y'all.
1:03:40 Speaker 01 Alright, alright.
1:03:41 Bill Simmons? I mean, when you miss 73% of your threes, what's not to love?
1:03:48 Bill Simmons? Trade grades. Did we do New Orleans for this? Yeah, we did. So then I guess Phoenix would be the other one, Nurkic. Getting rid of Nurkic, using one of your dumb firsts that you gave up the 2031 first for. Getting, getting your fans excited about Martin, who's like the 19th swing you've had, who's like a defense shooter guy.
1:04:08 Speaker 01 I'm indifferent.
1:04:09 Bill Simmons? Okay, yeah, how about this? No grade.
1:04:11 Speaker 01 Yeah, no, no grade is fine. Not applicable. Did not register.
1:04:14 Bill Simmons? And then Memphis, whatever the hell they did with Marcus Smart.
1:04:17 Speaker 01 And just like clearing out players who could help them?
1:04:21 Speaker 02 I don't, I don't understand. Like just giving up on Marcus Smart being a playoff contributor. If you think, if you have designs on being a serious player there, maybe his injuries are so cooked that they don't think he'll be on the floor anyway. That's the only thing that makes sense.
1:04:35 Speaker 01 They are a potential buyout team, cause they're not over the aprons, so cleared to roster spots, have some potential there.
1:04:41 Speaker 02 Maybe they've already been on the phone with some folks.
1:04:43 Speaker 01 Maybe so. I want to say I saw it pop up that I think they took back Marvin Bagley.
1:04:48 Speaker 02 Marcus Smart to the Celtics.
1:04:49 Bill Simmons? Oh, are we allowed to buy out? We're not allowed to get buyouts.
1:04:52 Speaker 01 I don't believe so, no. I think they're over the second apron, so no buyouts whatsoever.
1:04:56 Bill Simmons? The apron just ruins everything.
1:04:58 Speaker 01 Except gave us the weirdest, craziest trade deadline in the history of the league.
1:05:02 Bill Simmons? Yeah, you're probably right. Uh, wait, Sacramento, San Antonio. The Fox.
1:05:07 Speaker 01 For Fox?
1:05:07 Bill Simmons? I have an A plus for San Antonio. And like a C for Sacramento and then an F for Chicago.
1:05:16 Speaker 02 Solid A, solid A for San Antonio.
1:05:18 Speaker 01 Yep, I'm there.
1:05:19 Speaker 02 I think B for Sacramento, like, I don't know, I thought the haul was good. The Bulls, what they got back for Levine and just making themselves a part of this trade, like, I called it a hill of beans. Rob said it was a stump of beans.
1:05:34 Speaker 01 Something less than a hill.
1:05:35 Bill Simmons? What was the Vince Carter trade when Toronto got back like Alonzo Mourning, but he had kidney issues?
1:05:40 Speaker 01 Yes, yeah.
1:05:41 Bill Simmons? With Eric Williams and then some other terrible contract and like two bad firsts?
1:05:46 Speaker 01 When the.
1:05:46 Bill Simmons? It's always bad when you're taking the bad contracts back in trade.
1:05:50 Speaker 01 And for the only benefit being your own pick that you were gonna keep anyway because your team is bad.
1:05:56 Speaker 01 The pick was protected, like you were gonna keep it.
1:05:59 Speaker 02 The pick was top tier protected.
1:06:02 Speaker 01 So yeah, F for the Bulls.
1:06:03 Speaker 02 What they got was, yo, take the protection off. We're, we're one of the five worst teams in the league.
1:06:07 Speaker 01 I think, I think the Kings did all right. I'm gonna give the Kings like a solid B, especially under the circumstances. They didn't have a lot to work with.
1:06:13 Speaker 02 Under duress.
1:06:14 Speaker 01 Under duress.
1:06:16 Bill Simmons? Before we go.
1:06:19 Bill Simmons? Luka Doncic getting traded. What's your best Luka Doncic trade that you think would have been a better trade for Dallas than the trade they made?
1:06:26 Speaker 02 Player for player?
1:06:28 Speaker 01 I think it's gotta be a pack. It would have to be like a Houston haul or a Memphis haul.
1:06:32 Speaker 02 Yeah, the only thing that would have made people happy was six years of picks, you know, owning somebody's draft picks from now till Timbuktu. And some young guys that are nice. So, I don't know, Houston making the money work. A Man Thompson, bunch of picks in the future.
1:06:52 Bill Simmons? You can't keep him in Texas, though. He has to leave. You can't.
1:06:57 Speaker 01 Well, like sending him to the Lakers.
1:06:59 Speaker 02 Trade him to your division.
1:07:00 Bill Simmons? You can't keep him in Texas.
1:07:04 Bill Simmons? Who says no, who says no Tatum-Luka if you know Dallas is trading Luka?
1:07:09 Speaker 01 I don't, I don't think, I don't think Boston would do it.
1:07:12 Bill Simmons? I agree. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't a homer.
1:07:14 Speaker 02 I mean, obviously Luka's a much better player, but karmically, that's just a, that's a disgusting move.
1:07:19 Speaker 01 It's almost like if you go to the finals, don't blow up the superstar core of the team that just went. You know, like that's, what a crazy thought.
1:07:26 Speaker 02 It's like you leaving your wife for Sydney Sweeney.
1:07:31 Bill Simmons? You're trying to get a reaction.
1:07:36 Speaker 02 Everybody would think that was insane of you. Good boy.
1:07:41 Bill Simmons? Bam and hero and every Miami pick for Luka on a contract.
1:07:46 Speaker 01 I don't like, I don't like that. But you know what I would like is listening to all these offers. I would love if I were the Mavericks to sit there and actually feel them.
1:07:53 Speaker 02 I was like, would Minnesota trade Ant Edwards for Luka Doncic?
1:07:57 Speaker 01 I would.
1:07:58 Speaker 02 100%.
1:07:59 Speaker 01 Love Ant Edwards. I would absolutely trade him for Luka Doncic.
1:08:02 Bill Simmons? But the problem is if you're trading for Luka, you also have to factor in, will he want to stay in a year and a half?
1:08:06 Speaker 02 That's the thing. That's what Nico Harrison's trying to say, guys. About all of these picks and all of these great trades that were out there. That's what Nico Harrison's trying to explain to you guys.
1:08:15 Speaker 01 What he's trying to explain is the defense wins championships, apparently.
1:08:19 Bill Simmons? The only one that makes sense from a basketball standpoint that I think would have been six hour meetings on both sides is Giannis.
1:08:26 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:08:28 Bill Simmons? Yeah, for both sides. And I get, if you're Milwaukee, you probably don't do it because it's like, well, why would Luka resign here in a year and a half?
1:08:35 Speaker 02 And you trade.
1:08:35 Bill Simmons? But fundamentally for what he wanted from the trade, which was size and rim protection, Giannis is the better version of Davis.
1:08:42 Speaker 02 All NBA MVP kind of guy, win now.
1:08:45 Bill Simmons? I still feel like if this trade was Reeves, Davis, 29 and 31 in two swaps.
1:08:51 Speaker 01 Different conversation.
1:08:52 Bill Simmons? It's still not enough, but at least it's like, oh, I see it. They don't feel like they can resign him. That's a lot.
1:08:59 Speaker 02 Combo.
1:09:01 Bill Simmons? Whoever they got, wasn't it? Uh, thanks to Michelob Ultra. They sponsored our little YouTube live thingy. The Superior Light Beer, the official beer sponsor of.
1:09:12 Speaker 01 Also, we should say happy birthday to Was.
1:09:14 Bill Simmons? Thank you.
1:09:14 Speaker 01 Today?
1:09:15 Bill Simmons? Today.
1:09:16 Speaker 02 Today's my birthday.
1:09:16 Speaker 01 Happy birthday to our colleague, Sir Sohi as well.
1:09:18 Bill Simmons? We got you Kyle Kuzma.
1:09:21 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah. Shouts to Sir Sohi, my birthday twin. We never get our love.
1:09:25 Speaker 01 Oh, Sir.
1:09:26 Speaker 02 Yes, we never get our love in the Ringer Slack on the birthday love.
1:09:29 Speaker 01 Called out.
1:09:30 Speaker 02 So we're doing it right now, live on the Bill Simmons Trade Deadline Special.
1:09:36 Bill Simmons? Wow, what a weird way to end the pod. Happy birthday. What happens today?
1:09:42 Speaker 01 You and Luka just going out?
1:09:43 Speaker 02 Uh, going out.
1:09:44 Bill Simmons? Just making bad food and drink choices?
1:09:46 Speaker 02 Going out for steaks tonight. Um, so yeah, man, that'll be it. Just a steak dinner. That's my birthday today.
1:09:53 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
1:09:54 Speaker 02 That's actually what I do every birthday.
1:09:56 Bill Simmons? What part of Los Angeles do you think Luka Doncic will live in with the limited information you have about things that he likes?
1:10:02 Speaker 01 I like this as like a personality test.
1:10:04 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:10:05 Speaker 02 Things that, I mean, realistically, he should move to Beverly Hills. Cause it's close to all the things that he's going to like socially. Uh, it's not gonna be in Beverly Hills itself, but Beverly Hills is adjacent to where a lot of these things happen. So, yeah.
1:10:21 Bill Simmons? What's the hooka proximity?
1:10:23 Speaker 02 Hooka proximity is close.
1:10:24 Bill Simmons? Okay.
1:10:25 Speaker 02 Somewhere in the Beverly, the hills of Beverly Hills. Um, cause Brentwood is too far from the action, to be honest with you. Brentwood is too far. Bel Air is too, is a little bit too secluded as well. Uh, what's another one that folks, he's clearly not an East sider. He's not gonna move with the freaking Hollywood East Side people. Uh, I think he's a Beverly Hills guy.
1:10:48 Bill Simmons? All right, caveat. They practice in Oceano.
1:10:52 Speaker 02 Mmm.
1:10:53 Bill Simmons? Mmm. He's 25.
1:10:56 Speaker 02 Mmm.
1:10:58 Bill Simmons? Has mentioned the beach and the ocean a couple of times.
1:11:00 Speaker 02 Yes. So I guess that is a Brentwood is, you know, you get the crib and you get to be closer to the ocean. I don't think he moves like, what are you thinking, like Manhattan Beach type of thing?
1:11:12 Bill Simmons? I was wondering, could he be like, like where the, like, that's where the hockey players live, right? The LA Kings live in like Manhattan, Hermosa, Rusolo's there.
1:11:20 Speaker 02 Luka's not a hockey guy. He's, he's a different, he's, he's an NBA guy. Let's just, let's just put it like that.
1:11:28 Bill Simmons? I see him in the Bay for a year while he figures it out.
1:11:31 Speaker 02 Hmm.
1:11:34 Speaker 02 I don't think he's gonna do that.
1:11:35 Bill Simmons? Do you think you run into Luka Doncic in LA at 2:00 in the morning at a club in the next 2 months?
1:11:40 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:11:41 Speaker 01 You think so?
1:11:42 Speaker 02 Yes. And maybe not a club, but like, you know, one of the, you know, one of the things my guys at H would do. I could see him being a H would guy, 100%.
1:11:52 Speaker 01 I'll have to take your word for it.
1:11:53 Speaker 02 100%. And it's not gonna be like a nightclub, loud music, blah, blah, blah, but like, you know, like,
1:11:58 Speaker 01 A lounge.
1:11:59 Speaker 02 Leo's gonna be there.
1:12:00 Bill Simmons? Is there a world where Luka lives with Rob and his wife?
1:12:06 Bill Simmons? If Rob moves to LA?
1:12:08 Speaker 01 Hypothetically.
1:12:08 Bill Simmons? Rob just, Rob gets a guest house in the back of his Brentwood estate. Would it be, would it be ethical or unethical for you to live in the guest house of Luka Doncic's Brentwood estate?
1:12:19 Speaker 01 I think I would officially have to give up my awards vote if I'm living in Luka Doncic's house.
1:12:23 Speaker 02 First of all, there are,
1:12:24 Bill Simmons? I'm glad you're open about it.
1:12:26 Speaker 02 There are media members in LA who that's open to, but they do not work for theringa.com. I promise you that.
1:12:33 Speaker 01 We stand up for journalism here.
1:12:34 Bill Simmons? Yeah, we try.
1:12:36 Speaker 01 Well, everyone but conspiracy.
1:12:38 Speaker 02 We're gonna be holding these guys' feet to the fire.
1:12:41 Speaker 01 Speaking truth to power, maybe living in their guest house.
1:12:45 Bill Simmons? Guys, I had a blast. Happy birthday, Wes.
1:12:46 Speaker 02 Thank you.
1:12:47 Bill Simmons? Thanks to everybody behind the scenes and thanks to everybody who listens. Thanks for the questions, too. We're gonna take a break. I'm gonna come back with million dollar Super Bowl picks.
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1:14:21 Bill Simmons? This episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. Look, I already have my dream job. I run the Ringer, argue with Chris Ryan, AKA CR. But even dream jobs have not-so-dreamy parts. You know, the work that slows you down never seems to go away. That's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in. They're like digital teammates who actually do the job, start to finish. No handoffs, no homework. That means more time for the work that actually matters, which for me is talking about whether the 86 Celtics can beat the 96 Bulls, which they could. To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com. All right, Million Dollar Picks, Super Bowl edition, presented by FanDuel Sportsbook. We don't have House this week because he is in New Orleans.
1:15:03 Bill Simmons? He's hanging out with Sal and with Van and all these Ringer dudes, the fantasy guys, and it just hurts my feelings. He didn't have time for us. I'm gonna carry on. I have a bunch of stuff I like, but I wanted to talk, big picture, about what I was seeing from the game, because I stared at this game, I don't know, for 10 days, and I just kept thinking Philly has more talent. Philly has more talent. Philly's better all over the place. The only things that you wouldn't give Philly the advantage are coaching, QB, pedigree in late-game crunch-time situations.
1:15:38 Bill Simmons? So I thought I was gonna take Philly for about a week and then I thought about more and more, I went to the playoff gambling manifesto. I looked at all the rules. Rule number one, first rule, beware of the looked a little too good, the previous playoff round team. That was Philly going against this Washington team that already was probably lucky to make the conference title game to begin with and then had a couple of big injuries and Philly looked awesome. Uh, rule number five, beware of the everybody believes in us team and the nobody believes in our QB but us team. So KC is a little bit of the everybody believes in us team just because everybody's like, KC can't go against Mahomes. Philly's got a touch of the nobody believes in our QB but us stuff, although I don't know, Hertz is making 50 million a year and he gets taken high in fantasy drafts and people know he's
1:16:21 Bill Simmons? good. So KC a little bit, Philly a little bit, but I'm not too sold on any of them. Rule number 10, when in doubt, gravitate toward one pick that would screw over the most gamblers and experts and would definitely go against the single worst gambler you know. Again, there's some KC stuff. I still feel with the, with people, just the infrastructure, 3P, don't go against Mahomes. I still feel like when we get closer to game time, I think this line's gonna move. I think it's gonna move toward Philly. Right now, it's still KC minus one and a half. So I don't think this comes into play. There is a prop that I want to hit when we do props that I think qualifies for rule number 10. Rule number 16, take one last look at the quarterbacks and remember, there's plenty of time to bet
1:17:06 Bill Simmons? against any QB or coach, except for the Super Bowl where you don't have a lot of time. Uh, take one last look at the quarterbacks, Mahomes, Hertz. What happens in a three-point game with nine minutes left and KC's down three and they have the ball and they're driving and you realize you bet on Philly and you didn't have Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid. You just have to factor that in and you also have to factor in rule number 17. Don't try to be a hero, just try to win money. The hero move is to take Philly and to say, this has been the best team. Uh, when you think about it, they only had three losses. They could have, they were three plays away basically from being undefeated for the season. They're loaded everywhere. Uh, they're gonna lay this smackdown and the only reason you're
1:17:50 Bill Simmons? not gonna take them is because of Mahomes and Reid. The counter is Casey has just been spectacular at winning close games against teams where they do all the little things correctly and they make the little coaching decisions correctly. And they always get one little break around halftime when the other team does something stupid. And maybe there's a bad special teams player, they get one fumble. They always kind of hang around, hang around, hang around and take care of business in the fourth quarter like they did with Buffalo. Mahomes is 17 and three in the playoffs career. He's 17 and zero in the last 17 one score games. That zero means no losses. This team just takes care of business all the time, over and over again. Meanwhile, Philly, their best wins this year, Green Bay twice, Washington, they went two
1:18:35 Bill Simmons? and one, Baltimore, they beat by five and Cincy. So the record is awesome, the stats are awesome, the fact that they're three plays away from being undefeated is notable. Their defense has looked great and yet you can make the case Casey has just had a much tougher schedule, a much bigger bullseye in them and over and over again has delivered. So I was trying to think, I was trying to do this for the Super Bowl. I do scenarios, best case, worst case, because I started leaning toward the Chiefs over the weekend. Best case scenario, comparing the Chiefs to Brady and the Pats, because I think there's a lot of similarities, including like the infrastructure, the coach, the experience in big games, all the veterans you have, just the ability to just pull out these close
1:19:19 Bill Simmons? games over and over again. What Brady's Super Bowl win would this be like for Mahomes? And I settled on Patriots 28, Seattle 24. Ironically, 10 year anniversary of that game this week. Really great YouTube clip that the Patriots put up with all this extended audio and video stuff from the game. I watched the whole thing. I made my dad watch it. I think it's probably my favorite Patriots win of all the wins that has the Malcolm Butler game. Anyway, they're down 10. They win the game by four, 28 to 24. It was a pick 'em line, so similar to this, 47 for the over under, pretty close to this. It was a game that had 10 punts, three turnovers, seven touchdowns and a field goal. So 10 possessions on each side.
1:20:02 Bill Simmons? That feels a little similar to what I think the game's gonna go on Sunday. Patriots couldn't really run the ball. 21 for 57 running it, but 37 for 50 for 328 passing. That feels like what's gonna happen in this game for them. I don't think they're gonna be able to run the ball that well against the Eagles. And I think the Eagles are gonna try to, try to push them to do short, medium passes. Just keep trying to move the ball downfield and eventually we're either gonna get a sack or a tip or we'll break up a play, something, but just take your time going down the field. Seattle on the other side in that game, 29 for 162 from the run, for the run, which kind of feels like what might happen with Barkley. They were 12 for 21 passing for 247.
1:20:45 Bill Simmons? That feels in the ballpark of what usually happens with an Hertz Eagles game. The Pats were 8 for 13 on third down. Big time of possession for them, 33 46, because it was a lot of the short, medium completions that just kept the clock moving. Brady ended up 37 50 for 328. So, close game. They had to throw the ball a lot because they weren't able to run it. And then they took care of business down the stretch. And then Malcolm Butler came up with the most famous play in the history of the Super Bowl. I think that if the Chiefs win, I don't think it's a big win. I don't think they win by 10 plus. I think the game is tight in the fourth quarter and they pull it out. All right, what would be the, the worst version of the game for the Chiefs? What bad Mahomes loss would this be like?
1:21:28 Bill Simmons? That's obvious. That's Bucks 31, Chiefs 9. That was the Super Bowl result. KC favored by 3. They ran the ball a little bit in that game, 17 for 107, 26 for 49 passing. Mahomes is okay, but he had a couple turnovers. And then Tampa ran the ball on them, 33 for 145. Only 8 incompletions for Brady, no turnovers. Took a big lead, held them off. Took over the game in the second half with their pass rush. And KC just couldn't do anything, 9 points.
1:21:59 Bill Simmons? I'm a little scared of that result for this. And I think if you're taking, if you're taking the Eagles, you're almost better off taking them by 10 plus. That's the, they're not, I don't think, winning a close game against Mahomes and the Chiefs in the fourth quarter. Which makes me think, if you're taking the Eagles, just take the minus nine and a half at plus 350 and get some juice on it and root for a game like that Bucks game, the 31 to nine game.
1:22:28 Bill Simmons? I am looking at this as a Chiefs win and a nail biter of a game. There's some advantages for the Eagles. Number two and limited explosive plays, according to Shio Kapadia. Really good tackling team. And then they have that recipe that used to work against Brady in the past. And I think the Eagles have it where you just rush the four. They're constantly pushing the pocket. And then you have the other seven guys can basically be doing all kinds of, you know, are they blitzing? Are they bouncing back? Are they pretending to blitz and then blitzing? That's what used to frustrate Mahomes. So I, Brady, so I feel like there's some recipe stuff here, but ultimately I just can't take,
1:23:11 Bill Simmons? I can't take Hertz over Mahomes and I can't take Sirianni against Reed. And if anything has taught us about this Chiefs team over the years, they just benefit from dumb shit from the other teams or just the play shouldn't have made. The moment that you can't believe this happened. And it's just, it always works out for them. I'm not going to talk about the refs. So here's what I'm doing. For million dollar picks, we lost 211,000 last week. We are still up 1.071 million dollars for the season. I'm going to try to double it. We're going to bet 500K in the Chiefs minus one and a half. We're going to bet a 250K parlay. Listen to this one. Eagles plus eight and a half. Mahomes 200 plus passing yards, under 60.5 points.
1:23:56 Bill Simmons? So it's a little bit of a hedge against that Chiefs minus one and a half because I think the game's going to be close and I'm going to try to middle it with that parlay. And that parlay is dead even on Fandel. So doing those two. And then 50K on the following Super Bowl props. Ready? Hertz anytime touchdown, minus 115.
1:24:17 Bill Simmons? I just, at some point, the tush push is happening near the goal line. That's just the way this goes. Mahomes over five and a half carries, minus 128. You go back, you look at all the Super Bowl, Sal and I talked about this on the Super Bowl props. He uses his legs in every big game. And even if he doesn't get to five and a half carries, it's five instead of five and a half. So the odds are in your favor on this, especially if they're going to rush four and he's going to be able to scramble around and buy himself some time. Think about the Eagles defense, if they get a little tired in the fourth quarter, who knows? I just think he gets the six carries. I like that a little more than the yards because the yards, if they had the lead, the kneel down, start cutting in the yard total, not doing that. Mahomes over 11 and a half yards for biggest rush, taking that.
1:25:02 Bill Simmons? I'm also taking Hertz over 11 and a half yards for his biggest rush. Figure one of those guys is rushing for 12 yards, maybe hit both. Worst case scenario, you split them. Chris Jones sack, plus 136. We talked about this on Sunday. Line pushes forward, Hertz holds the ball, holds it too long. And then all of a sudden, Jones gets him. Both teams get a fourth down conversion, minus 124. I think there's probably going to be a point in this game where both teams have to get a little bit aggressive. Because they're going to be worried about what happens if the other team gets the ball back. So even fourth and ones, fourth and twos, I just think both teams are getting a fourth down conversion. And then we have a boost on FanDuel that I'm just going to jump on for 50K.
1:25:43 Bill Simmons? KC wins, Mahomes over 225 yards passing, which you can use the profit boost token and go nuts on. And then I have some small 25K Super Bowl props. Mahomes 40-plus rush yards is plus 180. I like that one because if I'm betting on his rush over, I might as well just go for it and think he's going to go like eight for 45, whatever.
1:26:08 Bill Simmons? Eagles first half, Eagles to win the first half, Chiefs to win the game, plus 750. This is the Cousin Sal special. Can see it happening. So we're putting 25K on it. I think this is going to be a tight game. I do not think the Chiefs run away with this by any means, and I could totally see the Eagles winning the first half. So we'll fly on that. And last but not least, going back to the manifesto, no Barkley touchdown is plus 150. And at Fandel, they were saying, I heard through the grapevine, this is the least bet Super Bowl prop. So you want to have the prop that everyone has been in the other side on, plus 150, we're putting 25K on that. And those are the million dollar picks,
1:26:49 Bill Simmons? Super Bowl edition. Don't forget, Sunday night, me and Cousin Sal, at some point after the Super Bowl ends, we will be going, we will be going full tilt on everything that happened in the game. We're not going live on YouTube, but it will be on this podcast. We'll get the video up as fast as possible on YouTube. So there you go.
1:27:11 Bill Simmons? All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Kyle Crichton and Sarudy and Gahaw for producing. Don't forget, you can watch all the videos and clips from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can also check out the rewatchables on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel or on the rewatchables feed we did before sunset. We have a monster movie coming on Monday, a movie that was always on the shortlist. So stay tuned for that. I'm not going to tell you what it is. You don't need to know what it is because you've seen it. So there you go. I will be back on Sunday after the Super Bowl. We're not going live, but we will be doing a Super Bowl reaction pod with Cousin Sal, the final podcast of the year. Don't forget to consume all of our NFL content on the Ringer Podcast Network,
1:27:54 Bill Simmons? on the Ringer.com. We're doing some great stuff. We have a bunch of people down in New Orleans. Enjoy the weekend. Enjoy the game. See you Saturday.
1:28:26 Bill Simmons? Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-887-897777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-8778-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York. This episode is brought to you by Searchlight Pictures Wild Horse 9. John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell, I like those guys, star in the sharp-witted comedy thriller from Academy
1:29:10 Bill Simmons? Award winner Martin McDonagh, writer-director of The Banshees of Minnehoshan and Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, set in the 1970s, filmed on location on Easter Island. Malkovich and Rockwell play CIA agents Chris and Lee, who are caught in a dangerous game of secrets and survival. Also starring Steve Buscemi, another one of my guys, Parker Posey and Tom Waits. Wild Horse 9 is being hailed by critics as a revitalizing shot of pure entertainment and easily one of the best films of the year. Don't miss Wild Horse 9. Only in theaters Friday. Get tickets now.
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