Summary
Written by a model from the transcript; not yet reviewed.
Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins host a movie draft episode of The Big Picture, joined by Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan to debate and draft cinematic failures across specific categories including low-grossing studio releases, star bombs, massive financial losers, Roger Ebert zero-star reviews, poorly rated Rotten Tomatoes titles, and failed franchise launches. The participants playfully negotiate the loose rules, challenge each other's selections like Shawshank Redemption, and defend misunderstood or nostalgic flops such as Congo, Ishtar, and Eight Millimeter. The discussion covers box office expectations, critical reception, home video second lives, and the strange history of Hollywood hubris.
- Distinguish between independent art-house films and high-expectation studio releases when evaluating whether a financial disappointment qualifies as a true box office flop. 12:43
- Examine pre-release press and studio interventions as key indicators of whether a high-profile movie will struggle with audiences and critics upon release. 8:10
- Account for inflation when assessing the true financial impact of historical Hollywood box office disasters and studio losses. 15:46
Chapters
- 0:00Brian Dawkins Shares Mental Health Story
The episode opens with former NFL player Brian Dawkins discussing his battle with major depressive disorder and encouraging listeners to seek help.
- 0:37Caplyta Prescription Discussion
The hosts transition to a medical segment about the antidepressant Caplyta, its benefits, and safety considerations.
- 1:31Applebee's Late‑Night Promotion
A brief commercial break featuring Applebee's half‑price late‑night appetizers interrupts the conversation.
- 2:17Introduction to the Flops Draft
Sean Fennessey, Amanda Dobbins, and Bill Simmons introduce the episode’s main focus: drafting the worst movies of all time.
- 3:00Defining Flop Categories
The hosts outline the criteria for the draft, including budget limits, star bombs, and other categories that qualify a film as a flop.
- 8:00Draft Order and First Picks
The draft order is revealed, and the first overall pick—Tom Green’s "Freddy Got Fingered"—is announced along with a brief Ebert review.
- 8:36Debating Classic Flops
The panel debates which older films, such as "Waterworld" and "Heaven's Gate," should be included, discussing financial loss and critical reception.
- 10:00Salt and the Failed Franchise Launch
They pick Angelina Jolie’s Salt as an example of a franchise that never expanded, noting its modest budget and limited box‑office impact.
- 20:00Closing Reflections and Listener Takeaways
The episode wraps up with final thoughts on the discussed films, audience engagement prompts, and a brief recap of key points.
- 24:06Wildcard: The Last Duel as a Missed Opportunity
The hosts discuss Ridley Scott’s The Last Duel, a high‑budget film that underperformed due to timing and cultural context, and debate its potential as a franchise.
- 46:05Intro and Lost City of Z Overview
The hosts introduce the episode and discuss the box‑office performance and critical reception of James Gray’s Lost City of Z.
- 49:57Black Hat as a Sub‑$30 Million Flop
The group selects Black Hat, a Michael Mann film that barely made $30 million domestically, and explains its box‑office failure and cult status.
- 1:13:13Manhunter and the Resurgence of 90s Bombs
They highlight Manhunter, a 1990s thriller that was a flop on release but has since gained appreciation, illustrating how reception can change over time.
- 1:30:21Typos and Aging Conversations
The hosts joke about typos in documents and discuss aging, reflecting on their past roles and personal milestones.
Highlights
- 14:42
Defining the Flops Draft Parametersstrategy
Sean Fennessey explains the specific categories for the movie draft, replacing traditional drama and comedy buckets with rules targeting low domestic gross, star misfires, 100 million dollar losses, Ebert zero-star films, and failed franchises.
- 20:52
Freddy Got Fingered as First Pickinsight
Sean Fennessey uses his first overall pick in the Ebert zero-star category to select Tom Green's comedy Freddy Got Fingered, reading from Roger Ebert's famously scathing review.
- 31:47
Shawshank Redemption Eligibility Disputedebate
Chris Ryan attempts to draft The Shawshank Redemption under the low domestic gross category, leading to immediate pushback and vetoes from Sean Fennessey and Bill Simmons over whether the acclaimed film was ever truly a flop.
- 35:29
Defending Cruising as Pacino Star Bombdebate
Bill Simmons successfully defends drafting William Friedkin's Cruising under the star bomb category, arguing that the controversial thriller damaged Al Pacino's career momentum in the 1980s.
- 37:45
West Side Story Box Office Lossdata
Amanda Dobbins selects Steven Spielberg's West Side Story in the category of films that lost more than one hundred million dollars, noting its heavy financial shortfall despite critical acclaim.
- 42:46
Congo and the Loss of Innocencestory
Sean Fennessey defends Frank Marshall's Congo as a sub-25% Rotten Tomatoes pick, explaining how discovering its terrible reviews as a kid marked a pivotal turning point in his life.
- 50:01
Black Hat as Michael Mann Epicinsight
Chris Ryan drafts Michael Mann's Black Hat under the low domestic gross category, celebrating its physical media legacy and Chris Hemsworth's unique performance.
Quotes
“I carried sadness and anger because I thought I could handle it alone, but I couldn't.”
Unnamed speaker · 0:08 “Waterworld, I feel like is about hubris, you know?”
Sean Fennessey · 7:19 “I don't know why I'm here right now.”
Amanda Dobbins · 5:42 “I think it has a couple of the best stretches, which makes it a rewatchable.”
Unnamed speaker · 48:42 “I had a hard time watching Wolf Creek.”
Unnamed speaker · 1:17:32 “The Thing made $3 million.”
Sean Fennessey · 1:29:29 “I was going like, I honestly thought I was dying.”
Unnamed speaker · 1:31:24 “John Carter lost the most money of all the movies that have lost money.”
Unnamed speaker · 1:50:08
Sponsored segments
- Applebee's 1:30–1:56
- NOS Energy 1:01:21–1:01:40
- Panda Express 1:01:45–1:01:58
- FanDuel 1:02:18–1:02:26
- Lucas Kavanagh 1:54:02–1:54:06
About this episode
We’re drafting again! Sean and Amanda are joined by Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan for their first ever “Flops Movie Draft” where they highlight some of their favorite movies that were commercial failures at the box office. (0:00) Intro (1:43) Earliest flop memories (12:34) The Flops Movie Draft rules breakdown (17:17) The Flops Movie Draft (1:38:25) Honorable mentions (1:48:06) Draft recap Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guests: Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan Producer: Jack Sanders Editor: Jamie Yukich Production Support: Sarah Reddy and Lucas Cavanagh Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Transcript
22,951 words · 7 speakers
Speaker names marked are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
Topics
- The Thing
- Waterworld
- Salt
- Ishtar
- Black Hat
- Heaven's Gate
- Battleship
- Police Academy
- Lost City of Z
- Congo
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