The Praetorian Guard: Rise to Power

From Gladiator to Rome Total War to I, Claudius, today the Cohortēs praetōriae are one of the most distinctive military units of Imperial Rome. It was their job to protect the Roman Emperor and his household, a task for which they hold a somewhat ‘chequered’ record (especially when we focus in on the Praetorian Prefects). But what do we know about this unit’s origins? How did this powerful force become protectors of the Emperor and his household? What other functions did they serve? And how did they differ from the standard Roman legions in their structure? To talk through the rise of the Praetorian Guard, with a specific focus on the reigns of Augustus and Tiberius, Tristan caught up with historian Lindsay Powell at Fishbourne Roman Palace in West Sussex. Lindsay is the author of several books about the Early Roman Imperial Period. His latest book, Bar Kokhba: The Jew Who Defied Hadrian and Challenged the Might of Rome, is out now. Presented by Tristan Hughes. The producer is Joseph Knight. The senior producer is Anne-Marie Luff. The Ancients is a History Hit podcast. All music from Epidemic Sounds Sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week and ad-free podcasts. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe. You can take part in our listener survey here https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/6FFT7MK. This episode first aired in October 2021. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tristan Hughes?

  Ever wondered why the Romans were defeated in the Teutoburg Forest? What secrets lie buried in prehistoric Ireland? Or what made Alexander truly great? With a subscription to History Hit, you can explore our ancient past alongside the world's leading historians and archaeologists. You'll also unlock hundreds of hours of original documentaries with a brand new release every single week, covering everything from the ancient world to World War II. Just visit historyhit.com/subscribe.

• 0:32Speaker 01

  There are two types of business owners: those who are busy and those who want to be busy. Toast is designed for both, with tools to keep you humming and help turn grind into growth. That's how you turn busy into business. Toast: Built for Busy.

• 0:47Speaker 02

  Bombas knows cosy winter footwear, inside and out. Inside, warm merino wool, soft sheepskin shearing. Outside, fluffy sherpa and smooth suede. Inside, layers and layers of luxe cushioning. Outside, sturdy soles and grippy bottoms. Bombas slippers and shoes: a cosy way to stay in or step out. Visit bombas.com/audio and use code AUDIO for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash AUDIO. One purchase equals one donated, always.

• 1:19Tristan Hughes?

  This episode is sponsored by Smart Travel, a new podcast from NerdWallet. Now, you know that one friend who always finds the best travel deals, picks the right cards and somehow ends up in first class for the price of coach? Smart Travel is like that friend, but in podcast form. They cover all things travel finance, so you can stop stressing and actually start enjoying your trips. I'm lucky enough to travel a fair bit. You might have heard me talking about being on tour with The Ancients in Australia and New Zealand quite recently. Well, Smart Travel Podcast from NerdWallet was a great help. They dig into which airport lounges are really worth it and which are just an airport

• 2:01Tristan Hughes?

  gate with better snacks and worse lighting, and what actually happens when an airline loses your luggage for 12 days, and how to get real money back instead of a free drink and an apology. Plus, the tip I really needed: how to book flights without it turning into a part-time job. Travel smarter and spend less with help from NerdWallet. Follow Smart Travel wherever you get your podcasts.

• 2:43Tristan Hughes?

  They're one of the most recognisable military units of ancient history: the infamous bodyguards of Roman emperors, famous from epic movies such as Gladiator. The Praetorian Guard. But these Praetorians were much more than just imperial bodyguards. Their duties stretched from policing to fighting on the battlefield, and it's the story of their rise that we're going to explore today. It's The Ancients on History Hit. I'm Tristan Hughes, your host. Our guest is Lindsay Powell, an author of many books on ancient Rome and an expert on this transition period from the Roman Republic to the Roman Empire, a period that

• 3:28Tristan Hughes?

  features larger-than-life figures like Julius Caesar, Augustus, Cleopatra, Tiberius, Mark Antony, but also the rise of the Praetorian Guard and how it came to be the unit associated with emperors. We're going to explore the Guard's origins, its structure, duties, and key figures that rose to prominence within this unit, including the fascinating yet horrifying figure of Sejanus or Seianus. That and much more is all to come. Now, this episode was very special because we recorded it in person a couple of years ago at Fishbourne Roman Palace, this strikingly large Roman villa that was built

• 4:09Tristan Hughes?

  on England's south coast, not far away from what is today Chichester, the place that I was born. It was the perfect location to talk all things the rise of the Praetorian Guard. Lindsay, the Praetorian Guard, it must be one of the most iconic aspects of the Roman Imperial period.

• 4:32Speaker 03

  I think you're right. There are certain things that stand out because they, in a sense, typify or embody some of our stereotypes, what we think we know about ancient history. And the word itself, Praetorian, somehow hits you in the face as being really powerful and important. And we use the expression Praetorian Guard as if it's somehow, like, I don't know, dare I say, like the Waffen SS standing outside their Icetag or something. But in a sense, that's what the Praetorian Guard, if we use the modern expression, did in ancient Rome, except that, of course, they were called the Cohortes Praetoriae. So they were actually cohorts, Praetorian cohorts. So we, in fact, in our translation, have even changed some of the imaging, if you like. We think of them as being a bit like the Horse Guards, you know, they just stand there looking pretty. But the function was much broader than that.

• 5:16Speaker 03

  They weren't just a security detail, they did other things. But you're absolutely right, I think that they're one of the very iconic aspects of Roman history particularly.

• 5:23Tristan Hughes?

  We're definitely going to go into those aspects, like those various jobs that they had, et cetera, et cetera, as the podcast goes on. One thing actually to start off with, and we were chatting about this just before we started recording, was when we do look at ancient history and we look at these iconic units like the Praetorians or these aspects of ancient history that sometimes we think we know a lot about, actually, when you look closer, when you study on these things, there is so many of those things that we think we know about them, that is actually, there should be a lot of debate around them.

• 5:51Speaker 03

  I think you're right. It's important to understand where we get our information from. So a lot of the time, we rely very much on classical sources. And depending on the period you're studying, it might be Appian, for example, talking about the late Roman Republic, connected to Augustus. Or it might be Tacitus, or it might be Cassius Dio, who are writing quite a lot later than some of the events we're going to be describing. And you have to understand that they're writing, one, they have an agenda. They're telling the stories to convey a particular narrative that they've structured for their book. In Tacitus's case, it's basically the abuse of power and how powerful men corrupt and corrupt the society which was before them essentially a good society. And he was trying to get back to a republic. So he's writing about in the 90s AD. So already Augustus is all a century behind him.

• 6:35Speaker 03

  And he would not have known people who lived probably in his day. So he was getting his, if you like, anecdotal information from second or third sources. The written sources that he was relying on were going to be things like official documents, Acta De Orna, this type of thing, the proceedings of the Senate, or other chronicles that were available. And so we have some of those, in the case, as I say, that's Tacitus. So there'd be Cassius Dio writing another 100 years after him. So he's writing about his world, trying to understand it by looking backwards. So you have to be careful when you look at these things, that is he interpreting what he knows now and explaining the time before him in now terms? So what that means is you've got to be careful. And there's a good example of this, is that Cassius Dio writes about how the Roman army

• 7:20Speaker 03

  was in 5 AD. And his account is different than Tacitus writing in 23 AD in terms of numbers and deployments and these types of things. And people agonize over, you know, how could they reconcile some of these things? And that's part of the joy of being an historian, you should delve into these things. And then there's another level where you've got things like inscriptions, and there are inscriptions, and some very remarkable depictions of Praetorians in different parts of Europe. And what you try to do is take all these piece parts and, like a detective, make sense of them. And like a detective, there are different ways you could look at things. And you'll read in some books that they're very definitive and fatigued, say, based on that, Cassius Dio, there were 10,000. And some of us will say, well, there were 10 cohorts, somebody else will say 9.

• 8:02Speaker 03

  And it's because one is taking Cassius Dio and the other's taking Tacitus. And they may not actually be in conflict because we don't know what necessarily the period they're talking about. So, as I say, you have to read ancient history, all ancient history, with an open mindset to this extent that you have to be willing to... Say that it's not the absolute truth, the truth in a sense that it can be absolute. It's more a case of that person writing in his time, making a sense of what an earlier age was. And maybe he's writing on documents which themselves are flawed and so forth, but to the listeners, I'm just saying that very often it's a surprise when you read one historian's interpretation and find another interpretation based on the same evidence and the question is how on earth can that be? And I think it's just, well, that is the state of knowledge that we have.

• 8:47Speaker 03

  And it's quite possible, as we've seen at Fishbourne, that something else can come out of the ground that can completely change knowledge as it stands and knowing full well that what you're writing about today will in due course be changed. And I think that's part of the fun of staying history of all periods, not just the ancient world. It's a living, changing subject and you can contribute to it in terms of the interpretations of things. And some things which are considered to be accepted wisdom can be challenged at some later date.

• 9:12Tristan Hughes?

  Absolutely. Ancient history is very much live and kicking. I'm glad you mentioned Fishbourne here because as I said, we are doing our live recording at Fishbourne Roman Palace in the jewel of Britain, at West Sussex. Wonderful to be here.

• 9:25Speaker 03

  Well, the last time I was here was with the Ermine Street Guard, so I was actually a legionary in the first century and we actually have a local member who lives not very far away from here and it's always a joy to perform here. We had proper displays and that would have been quite a while ago.

• 9:37Tristan Hughes?

  Well, let's talk about the other guard. Let's go back to the Praetorian Guard. Pre-Augustus, late republican period, because what do we know about this unit's republican roots?

• 9:48Speaker 03

  The evidence, again, you have to draw from a number of different strands. It seems to be that the term cohortis praetoriae, the Praetorian cohorts, was used quite early. So we're talking in 300s, 200s B.C. And it seems to be that the general idea is that the consuls, who are the two chief manstresses of Roman society, are the people who will lead the legions to war. So they have a personal bodyguard and it seems very unstructured. It's almost a case of like that they pick the best troops to defend this person who theoretically is not a, shall we say, a Wellington controlling the troops from a hill at the Battle of Waterloo. No, these people are probably engaged in the fighting. So there's a real risk.

• 10:30Speaker 03

  To the commander and his deputy, so they are going to have some kind of handpicked bodyguard. Beyond that, we really don't know much. We know that people, for example, like Scipio Africanus, who was in Hispania, I think it was Citerior, fighting whether Romans fought for 200 years before they finally conquered the entire Iberian Peninsula, had cohortis Praetorius with him. And again, it's very difficult from the sources to work out what exactly what the ranks were and the number of men and the terms and conditions which they were employed. But the general sense is that these men were legionaries, they had no particular skill sets as such, they weren't special troops in that way, but they were people that were handpicked, that were presumably willing to put their lives on the line for the commander. And then when you get to, for example, Julius Caesar, who's active in Gaul, he actually

• 11:13Speaker 03

  chooses a particular group of tribesmen in Spain, who actually are called Caetorum, I think is the name that probably refers to the tribe that they come from. And he's particularly impressed with them. And he has a bunch of those people with him, but he also has Batavians as well. So he sees the value in having non-Romans serving as close troops to him. And begs the question, well, why would he do that? And you could speculate, well, they have, in a sense, no vested interest in threatening him. I mean, he's going to pay them, right? He's going to pay them quite handsomely. What's interesting, later in the campaign, he dismisses the Gauls and keeps the Germans, the Batavians, seeming to trust them more. And again, it points to the fact that it might have caused and ruffled some feathers amongst

• 11:56Speaker 03

  the Roman legionaries who might think, well, why are we not special enough that we can be chosen for those roles? I imagine it's a sort of threat mitigation strategy. There are cases in modern history as well as ancient history where whatever your own people comes and attacks you. And in fact, during the campaign with Viryatus in Lusitania, he was finally killed through the treachery of someone he thought was a friend and actually in the employ of the Romans. So, you know, there is the risk that you have to know who's guarding you. And Caesar then effectively sets up a tradition of having a proper military guard, which his grandnephew Augustus, as we were calling, adopts and formalizes. So there is this tradition of military commanders having a guard.

• 12:38Speaker 03

  And even beyond that, there's an element of if you're a rich individual like a Licinius Trucatus, for example, you are rich enough to be able to pay for slaves or mercenaries to guard you. And again, there's an optic side to this. Romans of the upper class, the senatorial class, the patrician class. Are particularly aware that you need to have a following of clients. And you will go about your morning duties and these clients will attend to you in the morning through an occasion called the salutatio. And the intention is there that they will present themselves and it was their patron. The relationship is described as clien patrona, so the patron is the man with the influence and the wealth, but he relies on his clients to give the optics to people in the city that these are wealthy and they are influential. And I think it's the influence rather than the wealth.

• 13:22Speaker 03

  So adding a personal bodyguard in a sense is another dimension to this following that you have, you know, so not everybody can afford one, right? So if you've got a 300 men who armed, right? You've got that thing. Another dimension to this is that by the time you get to the time of Noctevan, so this is after the assassination of Julius Caesar, they passed legislation to prevent people carrying weapons in the city because they know that there's this period between Julius Caesar and when Noctevan becomes Augustus where it's very violent. And the way you do that is to disarm people. So that that has implications for the Praetorian cohorts because of course they by definition are a bodyguard.

• 13:59Tristan Hughes?

  I mean, so in that regard, it's quite interesting with the violence in Rome. We did a podcast and recently goes to that villain of the Roman Republic, that very colorful figure, Clodius and all of that. But going back to the Praetorians today, how does Augustus go about transforming this unit from its republican form into this organized force? Talk me through how he develops the Praetorian Guard, as it were.

• 14:24Speaker 03

  So we're already talking about Ides of March, right? So you go back to 44 and this young nephew, grand nephew of his is actually on the other side of the Adriatic. He's waiting basically for Julius Caesar to show up with his retinue because the plan is they're going to go and fight a campaign against the Sabatii and other people in the east. Well, of course, news comes on about that his grand uncle has been assassinated. And they're faced with, what are we going to do? So you fast forward by about six months where he has now made the decision to actually go to Italy, against his mother's advice, by the way. And he quickly recognizes that the situation is very delicate. And he's barely nineteen, he's eighteen at the time this happens and going into his nineteenth year, which is really remarkable. I mean, you think, what did you do when you were eighteen? Well, this man was already planning the destiny of the world.

• 15:08Tristan Hughes?

  That's what we all think of university, though, right? You know, in our first and second years.

• 15:11Speaker 03

  You must have had different experiences than I had. But I think the key thing is here is that he understands a couple of things. One, the place is dangerous. That Marcus Antonius, who seems to think that he is the natural heir of Julius Caesar, and then they discover in the will that actually that isn't the case. In fact, Octavius, his grandnephew, is the one who's designated. So Marcus Antonius puts everything in the way to stop him claiming his inheritance. And what Octavian does, this young eighteen, going on nineteen year old, is to go and appeal to Julius Caesar's veterans, a lot of whom were in Capua, far south of Rome. And these veterans rally around him, presumably with the chest of money to sort of entice them to come along. And these are effectively his first Praetorians.

• 15:56Speaker 03

  We have no idea how they're organized. They might just be, they might have naturally divided themselves into cohorts. So we know that between then and thirty-one B.C., which is the Battle of Actium, he had about ten thousand of these. And they seemed to be serving something like sixteen years, which caused a bit of a problem, partly because you've got people who are effectively retired from service. And some of those are going to die through campaigns, obviously, but some of them are just going to be too old and they will withdraw from service. So he has to bring more people in. So there's a certain rotation of people in that. So by the time you get to thirty-one, he's still got this body of what he's calling Praetorian Guard. And at the battle itself, he gives those people to Marcus Agrippa, who was in charge of his fleet, and they are spread across the different vessels.

• 16:41Speaker 03

  So what you've got is a bodyguard actually in active combat. So go back to the earlier point I made about these not having particular skills. I mean, they are trained soldiers, and that's how they use the Battle of Actium, which of course he wins. So second going into the third of September thirty-one, the world changes. And the next thing that happens is, there's a lot of those troops, of course, they're a great number, I think by then he had half a million troops, all of which have to be paid for, and this is the big problem. Just to explain as a footnote, that Augustus, he's not Augustus yet, he's Octavian at this point, runs very much a deficit campaign. He promises people he'll pay them back. When he's won, and he uses his sort of influence and the name of Julius Caesar, which of course is inherited as the guarantee of that. In the meantime, they've been doing these prescriptions where they've actually bumping

• 17:24Speaker 03

  off their enemies and taking their houses and their wealth, so they've been paying some of the money back. In contrast to Marcus Antonius, who one is checked up with Cleopatra, from whom he gets a lot of cash to finance his campaigns, but in Greece, and Actium is in Greece, off the coast of Epirus, he is actually raiding the Greek cities and stealing the money to pay for his campaign. So you've got two different ways of funding wars. And the big challenge is, I've got 500,000 troops, and they're not all mine, some of these are people that I've taken from the other side, and I think at one point he gets like 19 legions from Marcus Antonius just at Actium, who were not engaged in much of the fighting, it was essentially a naval battle, and there had been like a sixth run-up. There was an Actian campaign where Marcus Agrippa was actually sailing up and down the coast, picking off things, choking off supply lines.

• 18:08Speaker 03

  So when these people finally surrender, the first mission that he gives to his right-hand man Marcus Agrippa is, take these people, demob them, sort out the problem. So then he's able to reduce 60 legions nominally on paper down to some number like 30, which is kind of roughly where it stays. And what you then have is a situation that, fast-forwarding into 30, that Octavian captures Egypt, now he has money to actually pay off his debts. And by the time you get to 27, he then does this deal with the Senate, where he's able to strike an interesting balance. So up to that point, there's effectively one autocrat, whose mission, stated as the triumvirate, was to restore the Republic. So effectively, he has done that.

• 18:51Speaker 03

  But what he cuts is a deal which effectively gives him control of the provinces on the outer edges of the empire, ones which, I think in Cassius Dio's words, are not pacified but need to be. And then the Senate has its traditional provinces in the centre, but cunningly, in the interim, there's a passage, I think in Cassius Dio, where before he sets off from Italy to go to Actium... He has a meeting where he seems to think where does the army need to be? And it's almost he's playing a mental game of chess. I mean, this is my supposition to some degree. But this is, I think, the way that Augustus works. Is that he's positioning the legions in different places where he will need them. And ultimately, in twenty seven B.C., the accord is struck where he is able to have a province, which has Illyricum and then the Gaul, for example, and other places,

• 19:36Speaker 03

  where most of the legions are. The Senate basically has one legion, which I think is in Africa. And Egypt is his personal province. The Senate doesn't have anything to do with that. So he has, I think, two legions there. And there are fleets, of course, around the place. And what's intriguing about all of this, of course, is that his position is quite precarious. There is no magistrate called emperor. It doesn't exist and will not exist for quite a long while. What he is effectively is the winner in a long civil war, where he's outsmarted his opponents. And everybody is basically in fear of what's he going to do next? Because he could rule as an autocrat and he decides that's not the smart thing because his great uncle Julius Caesar got assassinated for that very reason. And what he smartly does, he plays this sort of political game,

• 20:20Speaker 03

  opting to divide his spoils with the Senate. And he keeps the bit with the army. And that's what he does all the way through his reign. And that's what his successors will do for a certain point. But then he manipulates the powers that he has. So gradually over time, he will start accumulating the political powers. So it doesn't matter that he only has part of the empire. He effectively rules it all. And what's happening with the army is that he professionalizes the army so that the legions, which you've got, what I think people tend to forget this, even as the civil war was happening, the commanders were still active on the frontiers. And in my book, Augustus at War, when I was researching that, I was quite surprised that there were actually still on the German frontier and still in Panonia. Because as far as the enemies of Rome, they're not sitting back.

• 21:03Speaker 03

  They're actually using this as an opportunity to try and nip at the frontiers. So Octavian has to still negotiate what's happening here. And gradually, what happens over time, and twenty seven B.C. seems to be the moment when this comes together, is that he has a command structure of propritorian legates, who, Legati Augusti Propritore, as they're called, who Are direct reports to him. They have control of the armies in each one of these provinces. Which leads you to think that there is actually, while there is a professionalized army. There's not actually one Roman army. There are armies of the provinces. There's army of Gaul, there's an army of Germany, there's an army of Syria and so forth. And the commander is responsible for everything that goes on. Uniquely, none of those legions are allowed in Italy. The only units allowed are the Praetorian cohorts.

• 21:46Speaker 03

  And what I find fascinating is at this point is there are something like, I think there are nine cohorts. And only three of them are allowed in Rome. So we were talking earlier about the fact that they couldn't carry weapons, so that instantly creates a problem. So what you had here was effectively a military unit. Which is not allowed to wear military uniforms, so they contrive to wear togas. I think they were allowed to wear their military caligai, their boots. And they have to keep their weapons sort of concealed in the toga. But there are assassination attempts against by now Augustus. Throughout his reign, it's quite surprising that a number of them were recorded. And the Praetorian are close, right? So they're available to deal with situations. But the other five or six that there remained are actually scattered across Italy.

• 22:30Speaker 03

  And what that means is there's two functions. One, he travels quite frequently when his. Two stepsons, Neraclitus, Druusus and Tiberius are campaigning in the north. He often goes to Aquilea or he goes to Tehinum. And you have to imagine that he's gonna have troops there. So my supposition is, we know that there was probably a cohort unit. Based in Aquilea, but there are probably other ones too. So the second function they can serve is that if there is an insurrection in Italy, he has personal bodyguard that can deal with it. And that hints at the way the Praetorian Guard will be used in future. So I think what that's very interesting is you start to see these peace parts of the Roman army. Serving different functions and their pay reflects that. So on the edges, you've got the professional citizen soldiers.

• 23:12Speaker 03

  Supplemented by professional non-Romans called the auxiliaries. And then you have the fleets, which are associated with those by and large. And then within Italy, which is supposed to be a non-militarized area, I forget, that's what Julius Caesar got in trouble about when he crossed. The Rubicon famously with it and that causes a civil war. So he was always mindful of the need to actually keep. The military units out of sight. But yet people seem to coalesce around the idea it's okay for him to have a bodyguard. And they were always there to help him. And nominally what they were doing was guarding his house. All right, so his house on the Palatium, hence we get palace. We're here at Fishbourne Roman Palace, this is the Palatium if you like. Has a central door and it has, I think there's a couple of, I forget, the laurel trees.

• 23:57Speaker 03

  And there's a couple of the decorations which he's been awarded, but you can imagine there's a contingent of troops probably in the streets as well. And these people over time begin to control who comes in and out of the building. So now you can see that beyond being a bodyguard, they begin to have this controlling, and I mentioned earlier, the salutatio. So he would have had a stream of visitors coming in, there will be people that are friends of the family and obviously have access rights. There will be people who are clients of his, he's the patron. And effectively he becomes the patron of the Roman state, if you look at it that way. And there are people who want to appeal to him to push a particular case and have him respond to certain legislation and so forth. And over time you can see the Praetorian Guard and whoever's in charge of it can have a very powerful role in the day to day running of the nation.

• 25:18Speaker 04

  The quarter pounder with cheese is made with 100% fresh beef, cooked when you order it. Add hot crispy fries and an ice cold Coke and hopefully a lot of napkins, all for $8.

• 25:33Speaker 05

  Hi folks, it's Farnoosh Turabi from the So Money Podcast, here to talk about NerdWallet Wealth Partners. Making more money doesn't come with instructions, but that's where NerdWallet Wealth Partners comes in. They're a financial advisory firm built for high earners in their 30s and 40s. They create a financial plan with every client. It's basically a roadmap from where you are today to where you want to be. When you decide you want to retire five years earlier or spring for the bigger house, they'll run the numbers on what's possible and meet with you regularly. Think of NerdWallet Wealth Partners as the manual for high earners that you never got. Plus, someone who's actually read it. Learn more at nerdwalletwealthpartners.com/so money. NerdWallet Wealth Partners LLC is an SEC-registered investment advisor.

• 26:18Speaker 05

  Registration as an investment advisor does not imply a certain level of skill or training, nor does it constitute an endorsement by any securities regulator. Please see nerdwalletwealthpartners.com for disclosures and important information.

• 26:29Speaker 06

  Every restaurant wants to be busy. Most restaurants aren't ready for it. I'm Chef Mike from Detroit 75, and Toast helps us stay ready when the lunch rush hits. We prepare for lunch like we're preparing for battle. Orders are flying, tickets are stacking, and the guests should never feel the chaos. Toast keeps our team organized, so we can serve more people, stay consistent, and keep growing. Visit toastapp.com to learn more. Pay testimonial from an actual Toast customer.

• 27:08Tristan Hughes?

  It does sound like, as time goes on, like the Praetorian embraces more policing roles in Rome II. Is that fair to say?

• 27:15Speaker 03

  I think there's a couple of dimensions. So if we see them first and foremost as a personal bodyguard, and also, by the way, for the members of the family. And I think what we have to imagine is that when, for example, I guess it would be his adopted son's son, so that would be his adopted nephew, Druusus the Younger, when he in AD 14 has to go and deal with the mutiny on the Panonian River, where the troops are mutiny against paying conditions of all things, he has two cohorts of the Praetorians with him. And up the Rhine, his brother, who's Germanicus Caesar, doesn't. And the reason for that seems to be that because he is the governor of the province, he already has legions, right? He doesn't actually theoretically leave them. But in subsequent years, when he goes on campaign, then they will assign him Praetorian cohorts.

• 28:00Speaker 03

  So you have to imagine that there's the wider family of the Domus Augusti, there's this family guarding, and they will be fighting troops if necessary. Going back Earlier to where Augustus was Octavian, one of the things that he had arranged was for his sister Octavia to marry Marcus Antonius. And that was a rather unpleasant affair because he basically got into bed with Caipatra and so he was actually doing a double act. And one of the things to try and placate him, he sends his sister over with two units of Praetorians. And you can imagine someone sort of saying, right, well, here's you on your assignment, you're going out to live in Greece. And I wonder how that was met. But it's interesting because people think that moment was also to provoke Antony, who he knew was having this other affair. Would he basically reject it?

• 28:42Speaker 03

  But the point is, they could protect her, his sister, a very important person in his life. So there's that protective element. There's also an element, I think, of intelligence gathering. So these people are in the city, but they're also in the rest of Italy, and they can feed G2 back to the Palatium. And what's remarkable about all this is that people think of the Roman Empire as being a bit like a modern state with a big bureaucracy. In fact, what's remarkable is if you look specifically at Augustus, he had like a team of five freedmen who dealt with correspondence. And he ran the whole thing through this group of people. It was really, really a tiny thing. And the reason he was able to do that, going back to those Legati Augusti, was that everything could be delegated out to the frontiers. It was a combination of pragmatics that, I mean, you can't email a request for instructions.

• 29:25Speaker 03

  What he does, he delegates these people his own power, his imperium, to make decisions on the ground, but they have to keep him informed. And they're rotated out every three years. Now, in the case of the Praetorian cohorts, what he has there is a different structure. So each one of these nine cohorts are headed by a tribune. And every day they're given a watchword personally by him, which begs the question, if there's only three in Rome, how do the others get their watchwords? Are they sending messages back every day or so? But that's a key thing. What I'm saying is, is that Augustus, at this point, after 27, has direct command through these people that he's handpicked. And they're serving like a year. And the other thing to notice is there are questions. So they're not a Senate or patrician group of people. They're questions.

• 30:08Speaker 03

  And they become progressively, over time, the club, if you like, the society club from which officers, administrators will be drawn. And it's significant, for example, Egypt was Actually headed by a prefectus, an equestrian officer, who would then report to him. And indeed Judea was, and all of the principal guard units in Italy, and we haven't yet covered the, for example, the vigiles and the cohortes urbanae, who had other functions. So to set them in context, if you think of the Praetorian cohorts as being the bodyguard and intelligence gathering, well, there's a city that needs functioning too. So one of them, in fact, is a police service. And in that regard, this is really where the urbanae really play their role. And the vigiles are a fire service.

• 30:52Speaker 03

  So it became increasingly obvious that you needed to have them as separate functions. And it was partly, somebody actually wrote in a book recently, it was a bit like the way Hitler set up his state. So instead of actually having one or two individuals who could be very strong and powerful, who could actually be in opposition to Augustus, he sets up these different heads, who were all vying to get his attention, and they start competing with each other. So it's an interesting game of deflection, if you will. And one of the consequences that is that he never had any serious opposition through his reign. There were assassination attempts, and there were a couple of challenges, but they were dealt with, and it never became to be anything big. And always he had his Praetorians, of course. And even inside the palace, there was this group of German bodyguards, which in a sense goes all the way back to Julius Caesar.

• 31:35Speaker 03

  And you have to imagine there, it was the foreignness of it, these must have been pretty intimidating Dutch guys, Britavians, who guarded him personally. And there was this idea that the Romans are on the outside and these barbarian people are on the inside, but the fact that they were intensely loyal to him, it only changed in nine A.D. under Varus, where there was a suspicion that, hold on, these are Germans, aren't they? We have to be careful. So he apparently sends them away and later brings them back. But what you end up with is it's very interesting. So Italy is very much a special case. So you've got Rome with this triad of forces. You have the Praetorians, you have the vigiles, and they also have the urban cohorts, who have slightly different functions. And then if we fast forward then to twenty-three A.D., where Seianus, we're going to come to him, I'm sure,

• 32:17Speaker 03

  one of the things that he does is actually to build the first cap and brings them all together, which is a very important moment. Up to that point, there have been these tribunes. And again, the pragmatic way that Augustus works. It's very hard for him to have with all of these legati he's got to control. And thinking about this for a second, every year he's choosing a vast number of people for particular roles, which which hints at him as a man manager. If you think about, he has all the legionary legates that he has to pick on an annual, sometimes it might be three years basis. So there are twenty eight of those. So he has to know who those people are because he's going to be trusting them. In charge of them are the governors of his province. So there are something like thirteen of those, that sort of number. And they will control the armies within their areas. He will choose all the prefects in charge of all the exor units.

• 33:02Speaker 03

  He'll choose for Judea, for Egypt, and for other units he has important. It's a vast number of people he's got to keep track of, if you think. So one way he deals with this is instead of having nine tribunes, is to have two, what he calls prefecti praetorio. And we actually know their names. One is Austrius Scapula, which British people will know. The person that came to Britain was a relation of his, so that was a different, but essentially Austrius Scapula. And Savius Aper. So we know these and it's very interesting when you can actually see history with names. It makes it much more personal. So I think it's from around about two A D, these people come and they sort of step in between the tribunes. And their job is to, I guess, man manage and control this whole thing. But that gives them interesting power.

• 33:44Speaker 03

  And when you fast forward then, like I said, when you get to twenty three, and by now Tiberius is the emperor from fourteen, this camp is built. Seianus, Lucas Ilia Seianus, Sir Janus, to our friends at home, will remember him, Patrick Stewart in I Claudius. I mean, this is part of the problem, by the way, that series was so well done, that George Baker, for me, is Tiberius, and Patrick Stewart is Sir Janus. And it's very hard sometimes as an historian to sort of put those artistic impressions aside. But that show pretty well, I think, showed the chemistry between those two individuals. And what it meant was for seventeen years, this is what people forget, it might have been just two or three episodes in I Claudius, but it was seventeen years,

• 34:23Speaker 03

  that this man Seianus, who in fact was a son of a Praetorian prefect, so it was in the family, another question, was picked by Tiberius to run the whole guard. And that gave him, he must have realised over time the immense power this gave him. There's a point, and we're talking Augustus has died at fourteen, Tiberius takes over. In twenty-one, he decides to leave Rome and go to Capri. And he leaves in charge, to all intents and purposes, is Sejanus. And you can imagine, like I said, we talked about the salutatio and the filtering of messages. That becomes Sejanus's job. So that gives him immense control. And he has armed troops as well. Now significantly, it's not till about ten years later when there are allegations that he was involved in the poisoning of the killing of

• 35:06Speaker 03

  Tiberius's actual son, Druusus the Young, who we mentioned earlier in the context of Memetania on the Danube River. A plot is inferred that he's going to try and take over the state. And significantly, it's the office in charge of the urban cohorts that is picked to try and actually sort of do the ferreting out. And there's the famous scene where Sejanus, actually, he goes to the senate house expecting to be given honours and in fact to be recognised as being the successor. And the statement is read out. And then halfway through, it becomes clear that this is an indictment. It's not actually a praising. It's not a memorialisation and commemoration of this guy's achievements. And the senators who are listening to this start to sort of leave the chain because they know something's up.

• 35:47Speaker 03

  And Macro, the famous Macro, who is the head of the urban cohorts, is the person who effectively eliminates his man. And in fact, for the family of Sejanus, it's a pretty brutal end. He executed and so were his kids, as it turns out. But that unfortunately hints to the fact that now it's too late because there's one man in charge of the Praetorian cohorts. And he wields immense power at that point.

• 36:09Tristan Hughes?

  I mean, it's good of you to lay out the story of Sejanus. We will go back to that story very soon and go into more depth, for instance, with the Castro Praetoria and Sejanus and his end. But one thing, just quickly before we really go into that, is one other fact about the structure of the guard. I love that you mentioned this idea of spies, the speculatores and the special role they had with these early imperial figures. But also, where were these particular soldiers for the Praetorians? Do we know where they were recruited from?

• 36:35Speaker 03

  The evidence points to Italy in the first instance, so Etruria, Latio and Umbria. So good quality sort of middle and north Italian troops. And it points to, at that point, about eighty-five percent of the Praetorian soldiers were recruited from Italy. But over time, they'll become much more widely recruited. By the time you get to later in the period, it's much more spread out. But there seems to be, the implication of that is that we need Italians to be personal in the sense. And in a way, there's another angle you could look at it is, these men will be deployed most of the time in Italy. So they're guardsmen in Italy, defending the homeland and the man in charge. So that kind of makes some sense there. It begs the question, were these conscious decisions by Augustus? This is what we don't know. Sometimes these things may have just happened by accident.

• 37:20Speaker 03

  And, you know, that's where his troops came from, because all the other nationalities, if you will, were actually feeding the legions at this point. And Italy is basically a non-military area. But you have young men who are between fifteen and thirty-two, who are eligible to enroll with the proper checks and all the rest of it to join the Praetorian Guards. But they're Italians, that's the point.

• 37:39Tristan Hughes?

  And so if we get to the end of Augustus's reign and the Praetorians, because we're going to go back to Sejanus now, as you highlighted this story. What does the Praetorian Guard look like when Augustus believes his last in fourteen A.D.? Can you see it evolving much during Augustus's reign? What's the status of it at that time? Is there still much more of its evolving to do during the reign of Tiberius and Sejanus?

• 38:02Speaker 03

  From what I've read, I don't think so. I think that it evolved, Julian Claudian, so we're talking about up to the time of Nero. So that reign of five emperors. Not a lot of change. The big change is really Sejanus, Sejanus, who brings them all together. And I think it goes once again to the pragmatic mindset of Augustus is to say that theoretically, you're not supposed to have armed troops in Rome, but the precedent had been set when the triumvirs, the Lepidus, Marcus Antonius and he, they celebrated their achievements by actually having their troops march in the city. And of course, they set the precedent. And the great thing about the Republic, or like any Republic, is that once you've done it once, you can say, well, it's been done before. So now you have these toga-clad men, three cohorts. Sejanus brings the remainder into the city.

• 38:44Speaker 03

  And in addition, they're also sharing the same space with the Vigiles and Urbanae. So what you have to imagine that... Up until Tiberius, these people are very dispersed. And the ratios of people, I saw one estimate where they were saying just by looking at the numbers, you get one Praetorian for, let's say, 500 Roman citizens. So they're not very obvious a lot of the time. And they're going to be parading in their field camps or whatever. And the rest are distributed around Italy. And it's much different when you bring them into a single place. And then they become much more obvious from that point on. And you could argue the optics was partly part of maybe Seanus's game, right? They'd be able to say, well, you know, the palace is here and the army camp's up there.

• 39:25Speaker 03

  But interestingly, the building itself is big enough to occupy a house of about 15,000 troops, but it doesn't have a principia. It doesn't have a headquarters building. And the implication of that is, well, if the headquarters is not there, where else must it be? And the probability is it's actually in the palace, in the Palatium. Where it would be, because the office has to be near the commander in chief, right? I mean, the bodyguard has to be able to deal with the crisis right now. So you're relying on runners and horsemen to go back and forth. And to that point, by the way, we didn't mention this, is that not only was the Praetorian cohort an infantry unit, it had cavalry too. So you see some coins where they talk about decursio, which is a sort of military riding event. And that's where these cavalry men would have been part of that. So you look at that from the point of view of evolution and change.

• 40:09Speaker 03

  What we can infer is that Augustus formalized the organization and Tiberius has banned Seanus, then took it to the next and concentrated it into one place. And that fundamental change changed the destiny of the guard completely. Because in a sense, and another thing just occurred to me, is that when these people are dispersed, they don't know their strength. But when you bring them into the same building, then you go, gee, we're all this many people. And this was interesting, there was a revolt in Illyricum. The Brucki were one of the tribes and Daisi diadis were the other. There were two chieftains who were preparing for one of Tiberius's campaigns into Panonia to deal with Marbodus, who was a big threat, or at least in their eyes he was. He was living in Bohemia in that time. So they bring together all of these cohorts of local Illyrican troops. And they realize how many there are.

• 40:54Speaker 03

  And the way that the Roman historians write this is they say, we're defending their stuff? Why aren't we defending ours? There's so many of us. And they rebel. So you can imagine there's an angle you could look at by bringing the Praetorians all into one place. Because most of them had been spread out in other places. They begin to realize, we have power.

• 41:12Tristan Hughes?

  It is so interesting, isn't it, though, if it is at this time at 20 AD or 23 AD during the reign of Tiberius and Sejanus? I'm going to say Sejanus now on, just so we're going to just say Sejanus.

• 41:22Speaker 03

  The trouble is, I keep thinking Patrick Stewart with the...

• 41:23Tristan Hughes?

  We'll call him Stuart, Sejanus. No, we'll call him Sejanus. It is so interesting. It's almost as if this progression, it's almost as now Augustus's dynasty, maybe it's more secured, that they could take that next step of creating this camp within Rome or just outside Rome at that time, bring all of the rest of those Praetorian cohorts into the centre of the empire, because they can, because their dynasty is more strong, because the imperial period is really now ongoing. It's almost as if, Augustus is dead, he's got his successor on the throne. It's almost like they can do it because they can, because the imperial period is now almost here to stay.

• 42:03Speaker 03

  Well, I'm going to challenge that a bit. I am, yes. This is why history is interesting. I think there's a misconception, in a sense, that, and I hinted at it earlier, that somehow that there's this idea of emperor, right? Emperor comes from imperator, which simply means commander, and it was an old idea going back into the republican days, where the citizen soldiers would acclaim their commander for bringing them victory, and they would thump the sky and say imperator, and they'd "our way", and so on. And they would take that title, and imperator would be added after the name of the person. So in fact, there are coins of Marcus Antonius imperator, and you're thinking, but he wasn't emperor. No, that's a different thing. And in fact, what was clever in the case of Augustus, if we keep using his name, is

• 42:45Speaker 03

  from around about the middle 30s BC, he cunningly takes the name imperator as his first name, right? There's not been done before. So what he's cheekily doing, he's actually calling himself Commander Julius Caesar as his official name. That's why when you see inscriptions as imperator, Caesar, Augustus, et cetera, because it goes back to when he cheekily took that as his first name. So effectively, he chose it to be his and prevented other people from using it. So I want to make that point. So we think of emperor, they thought of commander in chief, so there's a military overtone in that. The other aspect of it is, is that really this guy is referred to either as princaips... Which is to say like the first. And that can be the first man in Rome as opposed to the Roman Empire, but it also means the first man in the Senate.

• 43:29Speaker 03

  And that gives him the ability to convene the meetings and speak first and so on. So this idea really of him being unassailable. I I think is flawed because it's very clear all the way when you actually look at the way that the activities and responses, they point to. A sense of precariousness about it. So what you have to also remember is going back to twenty three B C, not eighty but B C. Where his powers came together, where he had already been declared Augustus, which had no any particular significance other than the meaning revered. But what it hinted at to people was that this man. Had influence, actoritas is the latter name, authority. And just by him being there, things could get done. It didn't need to be a necessary legal power for that basis of of activity and action. In twenty three.

• 44:15Speaker 03

  The game was up in a sense that the Senate gave him. The official title of Tribune of the People, which meant that he could overrule everybody. The Tribune was was a special role to protect the interests of the plebeian members of society, that the bulk of the population was plebeians. Where the senator group at the top. And there had been a war centuries before where the plebeians had felt that they were being abused. And they wanted something changed. And the way of dealing with that was to create these, I think there were seven or nine of them. Who had the ability to offer veto power, veto meaning I forbid. So if there was a piece of legislation coming through, they could say veto. And these men actually defended them. The trick was that Augustus wasn't supposed to have that. So what they gave him without the title were the powers. So he's able to play this game of I'm Augustus, I have lots of influence.

• 45:00Speaker 03

  And I can say I really don't like that piece of legislation. And people would go along with it, but in twenty three, they said, we're now going to actually officially call you Tribune. So you have these very interesting turning points where things that people saw were happening were officially recognized. And there are, like I said earlier, there are assassination attempts against him. So. If everything is so secure, right, I I wonder whether that's the case. There are no major problems in terms of someone coming forward with an army and challenging him, and you could argue. That that was partly because he had these Praetorians there, right? I mean, who's actually going to do that when there's, you know, potentially 3,000 troops on the doorstep? And wherever he goes, there's a whole retinue. Oh, and by the way, there were these big burly Germans. And so by the time we get to Tiberius, what's interesting, again, there is no title

• 45:43Speaker 03

  emperor. So what's happening is he is already assuming he's given powers. So by 14, to all intents and purposes, he has the tribune of power, he has, he has a whole series of consuls that he can clock up in his history. He has military commands more than anybody else. So he effectively was emperor, even the time of Augustus was dying. It was just that Augustus was alive. So people would have looked at it, I think, differently. And again, there's no magistrate, there's no position where you can vote for emperor. And it evolves. And what's interesting is the Praetorian cohorts are, in a sense, the catalyst that makes it more and more like that, because they get to choose this guy in the end. And then imperator becomes

• 46:25Speaker 03

  more what we think of. So my take on that, which I discuss in one of my books, is really, we have the benefit of hindsight, we can look back and we can try and draw conclusions and patterns. But at that time, things looked very different. They looked quite precarious. And what we don't have in the histories, because none of them are really contemporary, are the minutes of meetings. So we don't know what issues are discussed. I mean, for example, when Augustus becomes Augustus in 27, before that, he was kind of angling to be called Romulus. And there was a feeling, well, no, that sounds a bit too close to a call for comfort. He was recognized as the second founder of the city. But nobody actually wanted to really give him the the full title, because that sounded very much like maybe

• 47:06Speaker 03

  what Julius Caesar was trying to do, is first as dictator, perpetuo, and so on. But the guard becomes important in all of this.

• 47:14Tristan Hughes?

  I mean, it absolutely does. And then if we therefore, okay, the Castro Praetoria has been constructed, we're still talking about Sejanus at the high watermark period during the reign of Tiberius. Lindsay, do we hear of any particular events during this time, or are there several, where we hear that the Praetorians are involved in some way or form, showing the variety of jobs that they could perform?

• 47:36Speaker 03

  Interesting enough, funny enough, there's an inscription that comes from Ostia, where there was a fire. And it's a Praetorian who's involved in putting the fire out. Now, you think, hold on, isn't that the job of the Vigilis? Well, you know, actually, this man is in Ostia. The reason we know about this is that the Ostienses, that the people of Ostia were so grateful, they set up a description and they commemorate this sort of thing. So what that tells you is maybe there was a group of those people working, and it would make sense because it's a port, right? And there are supplies coming through, and you've got to guard the grain supply and all those things that underpin imperatorial power. But, you know, I think that's significant in terms of significant events. What we also don't know, by the way, again, because the historians don't tell us this, is there may have been events that were suppressed but not recorded. And you get hints of things. So, for example, there was actually an attempt to seize the south of Italy.

• 48:21Speaker 03

  I discovered this reading, a Tacitus, a while ago. I'm actually writing a biography of Tiberius right now. And I was reading a German book, and there was this mention of an event I'd never heard of before. And it was basically a slave revolt that happened in Italy. And it was, the whole series are just chance events. So these people that were gathered together, and they were using like their pitchforks and things because they were farm labourers and they were going to cause a revolution. And it was the local, I think the prefect who was in charge of like agricultural surveys and this type of thing, thinks there's something very odd going on. And the ships coming over from Illyricum into the port of Brindisium, he commandeers those and all of the marines aboard, and uses this little army that he's got to go and take on these. And then the message is sent to Rome.

• 49:05Speaker 03

  And Tiberius immediately sends Praetorians and other people he's got to disposal to deal with this situation, that they diffuse it completely. And I think what's significant about that is that, okay, that's a minor, it's like one paragraph of 300 words or something in Tacitus that comes to us by chance. He chose that because he wanted to illustrate a point. I think his point was to sort of show that he had power and he could see things all over. I think the other thing it points to me is, much as people tend to think of Tiberius as being deeply unpopular and somewhat incompetent and recluse, living on his island in Capri, he could nevertheless deal with things like this, and he dealt with them very quickly. And the force available to him were Praetorians.

• 49:49Speaker 07

  Hi, this is Mark Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman. I've been writing about food and restaurants for almost 50 years, my whole career, really. And what I know is that the good restaurants all have something in common. They're busy, genuinely, chaotically busy. And somehow, in the last few years, the best of them have begun to make it look easy. And do you know why? Because they're running on Toast's technology. Toast is built for restaurant owners who understand that Toast's tools keep the line moving and keep their customers happy with fewer mistakes and hiccups in ordering and paying. For owners, that turns busy into business. To learn more, head to toasttab.com.

• 50:34Speaker 07

  That's T-O-A-S-T-T-A-B, toasttab.com. Toast: Built for Busy.

• 50:43Speaker 05

  Hi, folks. It's Farnoosh Turabi from the So Money Podcast, here to talk about NerdWallet Wealth Partners. They offer free tools for high earners who'd actually like an answer, like their calculator that estimates if you're on track for financial independence. Plug in a few numbers to see how your savings path may support your goals. Or their wealth-building checklist for high earners. It's a step-by-step guide for prioritizing your dollars once you're making six figures. And if you still have questions, you can connect with one of their financial advisors, who specializes in working with high earners in their 30s and 40s. Learn more at nerdwalletwealthpartners.com/so money. NerdWallet Wealth Partners LLC is an SEC-registered investment advisor. Registration as an investment advisor does not imply a certain level of skill or training, nor does it constitute an endorsement by any securities regulator.

• 51:28Speaker 05

  Please see nerdwalletwealthpartners.com for disclosures and important information.

• 51:46Tristan Hughes?

  And that optics, that logistics, you mentioned Tiberius being Capri there. The fact that we can perhaps imagine if Sejanus is still in Rome.

• 51:53Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 51:53Tristan Hughes?

  If Sejanus is still in Rome, you can imagine speculatores, spies, or parts of the Praetorians going back to and fro between Rome and Capri, communicating all this stuff between emperor and at the time emperor's right-hand man.

• 52:07Speaker 03

  Well, and that's where Sejanus has a particular role, because he's the person deciding, yes, that can go, no, that one will stay here, and he'll control the visitors that flow to him. I think what's important to put it in context is that Tiberius leaves Rome in 21, and two years later, this castra Praetorius is built. And you almost wonder whether there's a situation where Sejanus, who's trusted completely, right, to run affairs, can almost make this decision without the need to consult. He just simply needs to, oh, by the way, I've actually arranged for this to happen. And you can almost imagine that Tiberius says, well, you're my right-hand man, I trust your judgment, do this. And my sense of Tiberius is that he found in Sejanus, who was an equestrian, whose father was himself Praetorian prefect, someone that he recognized as a fellow military man.

• 52:52Speaker 03

  Significantly, he didn't choose another senator, right, he chose an equestrian. So this follows very much in Augustus's way of looking at things. And what's remarkable, again, it's very easy to fall into the trap of watching i Claudius and think that these things all happened very, very shortly. It was 17 years. That's a long time. You know, that'd be half a Roman's lifetime in the sort of average, now, in a sense. So something happened, and it must have been, again, it could have been, I see all these people, I have all this power, and the seduction of the fact the old man is away, he's going to die, I have to secure my future, and there's an opportunity here for me and my family to improve ourselves. The problem was, he was an equestrian, right, and the imperial family sees them as a component of society to be manipulated and used, but not as a place where they're going to find successes.

• 53:36Tristan Hughes?

  And so, well then, talk me through then how Sir Janus's reign of power comes tumbling down.

• 53:42Speaker 03

  Oh, grief. Well, there are two sides. One, there's Tacitus, and then there's Diocasius, and they give us slightly different things. But in a nutshell, so we have a situation where Seianus is able to eliminate not only Tiberius's enemies, but his own. And this gives him immense power. And of course, what he can do by eliminating threats, he can begin to consolidate his own power in this. And what's intriguing is that Antonia, who is the, I think, the mother of Claudius, the wife of Nero Claudius Druusus, with the old grand dame of the family, if you will. She's a lady quite old in years. But amongst all the family who it seems to be is suspected by Tiberius, he trusts her. So she is able to gather this evidence, and I wonder whether he was able to use some of the speculatores

• 54:27Speaker 03

  who had this intelligence gathering function. Who knows? These are the sort of details that get lost. But somehow or other, information was collected without Seianus knowing. And this is delivered. She actually is able to get to Capri. And we have to imagine that she has to get permission from Seianus, because of course, they've got to lay on a security detail. And, "What are you going there for, ma'am?" "Oh, I'm going to visit, you know, my nephew or something." And that happens. She goes and she presents this dossier, we have to assume. And it's for Tiberius devastating. I mean, this man, for 17 years, he has trusted. But at the mindset from what I've been able to piece together Tiberius, he is a military man who believes in a mission is given to be completed.

• 55:11Speaker 03

  And you screw up, there's discipline that goes with that. And that's one of the things you read in Suetonius, is that he was a disciplinarian, but the troops liked him for that. And to find one of his own handpicked men to betray him like that, he has to deal with it. And a bit of gall and cunning, and I mentioned earlier where they set up this thing. Rather than sending a guard detail out to arrest him there and then, there's an element of humiliation and public spectacle that he makes out of this. He calls the head macro of the urban cohorts, who is another question. So you can imagine there's this interesting play, because you've got these slightly competitive units. The praetorian cohorts... Are paid a lot more money than all the other units. So you've actually got men in the camp who are paid half of what their Praetorians are and their prestige is less.

• 55:53Speaker 03

  And I know we're going off a little bit of a tangent here, but what's very interesting is, we haven't discussed it yet, there's a promotion structure. To be one of these praetorius, and there were two under Augustus I with Sir Janus's changes. You had to be an equestrian and one way to do that was if you were a centurion in the legions. And you rose up to be the primipius, the number one centurion. That made you an equestrian and you had enough wealth as well. And you could be eligible to become a tribune, for example, of either the vigiles and then you'd move from there to the open. And then you could actually become a tribune with the Praetorian cohort. So there's this pecking order as you rose up. And what you've got in terms of macro is you've got a man who hasn't got quite the same prestige. As Sayanus, but the relishing of the fact I'm going to bring him down.

• 56:36Speaker 03

  And again, to go back to why Claudius has brilliantly played in that particular scene. And they read out this long, you know, long have I trusted this man and so on and so on. He's been my loyal right hand man and partner in government and so on. But, and then they start reading out these charges and he is arrested and some are only executed. And it's for Tiberius, a profound moment, I think of upset because as an individual, I find him endlessly fascinating. I think history's done him very, very badly. As a young man, he is a loyal commander. He's a field commander going thither and yon. He actually arranges for the standards to become. And the prisoner exchanges and he brings the standards back from Parthia. So that's a big plus. He does service out in Spain as a tribune. He fights through Lyricum many times. He goes to Germany. He loses his brother.

• 57:20Speaker 03

  And his young brother, Dierel Claudius Druusus, which I think for him is personally devastating. He's confident, if you like. And worse, the lady that he loves, Vipsania Agrippina, who was the daughter of Marcus Agrippa. He's told to divorce her to marry Julia, who was the now the widow of Marcus Agrippa. So these seminal events in his early years, I think, really tear him up. And this is a life of service. I think what he wants is somebody he can look at and rely on. So all those years later, when Sayanus atrays him, I mean, this is something that for 17 years he'd relied on. He could go to Capri, knowing that there was someone who was going to look after his interests. And some people say, well, why Capri? Well, the great thing is actually it's an island and you can get messages and ships and all over the empire from there.

• 58:02Speaker 03

  So it's not such a dumb position, but by opening himself up to the whims of another man. Who begins to understand the extent of his own power. It puts him at great risk, so along comes, I'm turning on to this file and let's say, must be devastating.

• 58:17Tristan Hughes?

  It's so interesting though, when we look at the role of Sir Janus, say, Anus in the rise of the Praetorian Guard, in the early history of the Praetorian Guard. It seems like his reforms and in some ways his continuation of the Guard after Augustus and the roles they perform, this interchanging with the likes of the urban cohorts and the vigiles. He does seem like one of the most significant figures in the creation of the Guard that we envisage almost to this day of how it was structured, what it was for, all the way down almost to Septimius Severus.

• 58:51Speaker 03

  Hmm, who get away with them, pretty much. Yeah, again, I think you've got a guy that is a military man and understands the pragmatics and it must have struck him as being silly that they have nine cohorts and most of them are spread around Italy. So getting the watchword out right becomes a problem, keeping control of expenses and so on. And maybe their use in other cities, because the significant thing is Augustus travels a lot. And I mentioned Nero Claudius Druusus, he was active in Germany, for example, his brother was active in Lyricum. And what Augustus would do, he'd go to Quinum, he'd go to Aquilea, which were closer to those places without necessarily leaving Italy, to get war reports. He was actually getting field reports from his stepsons. And under Tiberius, that stops, he doesn't travel anywhere. That's the great complaint that people level at him. He's decided after fourteen to twenty-one, I'm done with Rome, I want to leave.

• 59:37Speaker 03

  And he leaves this other guy in charge. So you can see there's pragmatics here, these people don't need to be where the emperor's going because the emperor's not there anymore, he's an island. And then Seanus can look at this, again, he can justify this, right? I'm bringing them to one place, you can keep an eye on them, we're putting them all in the place. So if necessary, we can seal the gates even, you know, things like that. Because to get a legion that might have to deal with them is going to take days, right? So you've got to work on the control elements of this. He had through his father, you know, because you could trust me because, you know, I'm from the son of another Praetorian prefect. But again, it's individual ones, the cult was made of centuries and had centurions and there was a cavalry. There were lots of peace parts to these organisations. They're paid extremely well. What's very significant, to go back to Augustus, one of the first things he does in twenty-seven is to double their pay.

• 1:00:20Speaker 03

  The first thing he does, not anything else. So that recognizes their importance to him personally. And one of the things that he does on his death, he gives everybody in the army a bonus, a sort of like a donative for work and service, I'm giving this money. And the Praetorians get way more than everybody else. And of course, there's a pecking order, so the centurion of that will get much more money than the average Praetorianus, as they were called. And then the vigiles had more money than the legionary troops did, which is quite remarkable. So the ordinary squadi, the legionary, the milas, was getting really quite a low level of payback. And one of the first things that Tiberius, of course, does, he then pays a donative to the Praetorians, recognizing exactly what his predecessors have done. And that becomes a tradition.

• 1:01:00Tristan Hughes?

  It sets a precedent, doesn't it? I'm imagining the coin of Caligula now. Is it Caligula or Claudius where it has the coin minted, where he's at the castra Praetoria?

• 1:01:07Speaker 03

  So I'll interrupt by saying that there's a coin in the meantime. So Caligula, I actually have one. It's a brass susterius, it's about, it's about yea big, about the size of what, two P magnified by two, a thick, heavy brass coin. And it has a banner, a toga, standing on a rostrum, addressing a group of troops with standards. And his arm is raised and it's "Ad locutio" is the slogan. And what that means is basically to the call to arms. What I imagine, and I think this is what

• 1:01:32Tristan Hughes?

  Numisthetists.

• 1:01:33Speaker 03

  Believe, is that this coin was probably part of the coins that were minted to be given as part of this donative. Right? And what they're basically saying is, "I am your emperor, I call for your support." And of course, they're gonna say yes, because he's just paid the money. So these "Ad locutio" coins are very collectible on the other side. They have a magnificent portrait of a young Caligula. Now, the coins of Claudius who comes after Caligula, you're absolutely right, they have this interesting, they have this colonelated wall and buildings inside. And it's a strange image in a sense, because they're actually highlighting military camp in Rome. But then people will know the story, because Tiberius is long dead, Caligula took over, his successor. And it was an Equestrian prefect leader, Cassus Caria, who led the conspiracy to kill him successfully, as it turns out.

• 1:02:17Speaker 03

  And now apparently in Rome, they've actually found the corridor that he was assassinated in, which I'm sure is very emotive when you go and see it. The palace is where Claudius, this person who a lot of people think is a fool, turns out he's not quite such a fool after all. He is found initially by the German bodyguard, right, who are running around confused what they're gonna do. And they find this man behind a curtain. And the story goes that they present this man not quite sure what to do. And someone comes in and says, "No, this is actually a member of the family, you're supposed to protect him." And then the Praetorians take over and they take him to the Praetorian camp. And in the meantime, as news is reaching the Senate, the story goes that the Senate says, "We will now restore the res publica, the Republic." "We'll do away with these Caesar's." Except the Praetorians have a view in this, and they present their man and say,

• 1:03:02Speaker 03

  "You're gonna take this man, aren't you?" And of course, what he does, he takes over and he, of course, pays the enhancement fee for the charge. And later, in 8043, some Praetorians come to Britain, along with the elephants. And it's quite fascinating to think that Colchester would have seen elephants as well, but also Praetorian cohorts too, because they were a personal bodyguard. They would go wherever he would. So you can imagine, an entourage of the emperor on the move was thousands of people. Can you imagine if you're going by sea, I mean, you've got transports and triads, you're mentioning Hexarems and so on, moving, you know, equipment and horses and all this sort of stuff, and food if necessary, and this is how you have to imagine a trading on campaign with this large number of people, or Hadrian when he goes on his tours.

• 1:03:44Speaker 03

  We tend to think, I think these days, you know, like a US president, I'm living in the United States, and you constantly see Air Force One arriving, and a man comes down, and there's these guys with these curly cords in their ears and so on, and the Secret Service is quite a small body, at least in public, I'm sure it's hundreds of people. But the Roman optics of that would probably be much bigger. So there would have been an advance messenger saying, "We're arriving in the city in 48 hours." And literally, thousands of people would show up. Praetorians have to have a camp to go to, so they'll probably build one. I don't know how you do that in some parts of the developed empire. And there's all the personal staff, and of course, these German guards and all the rest of it. It's quite a production.

• 1:04:19Tristan Hughes?

  As you say, the logistics behind it, the whole operation must have been absolutely extraordinary, remarkable. We could go on talking about Claudius and Caligula and even Nero. You know, it's quite interesting how many Praetorian prefects are, Tijalinas that you remember. Maybe we've even betrayed him with Nerva, with Domitian, all of these prefects. Not really the Praetorian soldiers themselves, we remember the prefects because of the actions that they do. Normally, the end of a Roman emperor, or something along those lines. But just before we wrap up, I mean, if we're focusing back on Augustus, to the end of Tiberius's reign, we've discussed about a lot of things, Sejanus, the castrum Praetoria, the structure, its use alongside the likes of the urban cohorts and the Vigilantes and others. Is there anything else about the Praetorians, the rise of the Praetorians during

• 1:05:02Tristan Hughes?

  this early stage of the Imperial period that you'd really like to highlight?

• 1:05:05Speaker 03

  Well, I mentioned earlier, I think people tend to think of them as being elite, and that sort of was because they had special skills. I think the thing to think of is that these were initially predominantly veteran troops, so they were special in the sense that they had war experience and campaign experience, so they understood the rules of fighting. But as they became a formalized organisation and they began to be recruited from Italians, they see progressively less and less combat. So in fact, the legions, which are on the frontier dealing with all sorts of problems, internal and external, are the hard-nosed troops. And it's an interesting kind of dichotomy here, which is that, you remember the film Gladiator, and the implication is the main in black, Lorica segmentata, must be the Praetorians. And they all look very intimidating. But actually, from a sort of

• 1:05:50Speaker 03

  fighting point of view, they didn't have much practice. So in that sort of regard, they probably were more of a decorative thing than a really fully-fledged professional army dealing with the day-to-day. That said, I mean, the situation where, for example, Germanicus, who in 1580, 16, was active trying to hunt down Arminius, the man responsible for a viruses disaster. What's interesting there is that there are, I think, two cohorts of Praetorians who are in active service. So there's a scene that Tacitus describes where the Roman armies are deployed and they see these earth ramparts and they're going to go after them. They see there's a forest in the corner, and in fact, Germanicus says, we're going to charge over there. So send the troops up against the wall, we're going that way. And the Praetorians go with him. So he takes out a sword and off they go charging.

• 1:06:34Speaker 03

  So you can imagine that they are capable of fighting, but it's all these other things they do which probably makes them special. I think the other thing to think of is that if you think of them as being ordinary soldiers, I mean, there's a couple of people that I wanted to mention. So for example, there's one that was met by Cleniny the Elder, whose name is Vinius Valens, who was a Praetorian centurion. And the reason why he came to To Pliny the Elder's notice, he famously wrote the Natural History, so he was always on the lookout for a good story and things to write about the natural world. In fact, this Valens character was immensely strong, one of the strong men of the Roman world, and that's why he came to his particular attention. So we know a little bit about him. I mentioned that guy who was killed in a fire, so that person actually just acted like a

• 1:07:15Speaker 03

  good citizen and soldier. And we mentioned also the fact that Claudius brought people, including the elephants and Praetorians to Britain. A guy called Vetius Valens, for example, who was originally with the Fourteenth Legion, he came as a Praetorian of the Eighth Cohort to Britain. So he was one of that interesting detail. So we actually have names of individuals who, while they're not in the classical sources, we know them and their stories because of the inscriptions. And the great thing is, is that they find inscriptions all the time. So there are lots more people that we're going to find out in the future. And what's striking about them is the ordinariness of those people, right? I mean, they have the intimidating name of Praetorian Legionary or whatever it is, or the Centurion or something.

• 1:08:00Speaker 03

  And they were paid and rewarded and regarded as highly when the Praetorians were around because there's no point in bringing a charge against them because they're first in the queue to get justice. And who's going to believe you against them? And this is something that begins to become more important as they go into the future because they will become kingmakers effectively, because they control re-influential parts of the government.

• 1:08:20Tristan Hughes?

  Brilliant. Lindsay Powell, this has been absolutely wonderful chat, fantastic chat about the rise of the Praetorians. Last and certainly not least, you've done a number of books, including a couple of books definitely related to this period. Talk us through a couple of them.

• 1:08:33Speaker 03

  The one that was probably most relevant to this is Augustus at War, which is the struggle for the Pax Augusta, where I try to sort of present Augustus as a commander in chief. We tend to think the Roman Empire under him as being this wonderful world of peace. The point I make is that actually is what the history tells us, and in fact, Pax, the Roman idea of Pax, peace, in the way that we understand it as being this tranquil world, only comes when you win wars. So there were an awful lot of wars under Augustus, and in fact, because it involves the army, that's how he holds on to power. That's kind of the subtext. The two generals I mentioned, for example, Nero Claudius Drusus. Was his younger stepson, the son of his wife Livia, was very important from the point of view of consolidating Gaul. Because interestingly enough, when Julius Caesar conquered it, he didn't finish the job, he didn't pacify it.

• 1:09:15Speaker 03

  So in fact, that territory was left to basically fix itself. And he comes in and does censuses and this stuff. But he also leads campaigns into Germany, which will mean that under him and through Tiberius, the Romans occupy the lands on the other side of the Rhine, which famously get lost after Varus. And Germanicus Caesar, I wrote a book about him because I was just fascinated by his popularity. And now that I'm knowing more about Tiberius, you can see why some of the popularity is manufactured in the history. Because they're trying to make Tiberius the villain and they need a guy to have as a counterfoil. And when you put all these people together, it becomes an amazing family. I mean, Augustus created this family out of adoptions and marriages and so on and so forth. And they all had an impact on the story. And I think they're just fascinating people with wonderful stories.

• 1:10:00Tristan Hughes?

  Lindsay, great to chat to you today. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on the podcast.

• 1:10:04Speaker 03

  Absolutely, my pleasure.

• 1:10:08Tristan Hughes?

  Well, there you go. There was the brilliant speaker and author Lindsay Powell talking through the rise of the Praetorian Guard with all of those great details that Lindsay knows and loves so well. I hope you enjoyed today's episode that we originally released more than two years ago. Now, if you want more with Lindsay Powell, then we've got you covered. Because we also did very early on in the ancient story, we did two episodes with Lindsay all about the rise and reign, if you can say reign, of Agrippa. The fascinating Agrippa, one of the most important adjutants of the Emperor Augustus. This remarkable figure. And Lindsay is equally good in those interviews too. So do check out our episodes on the Agrippa with Lindsay Powell if you want more Lindsay in the meantime.

• 1:10:54Tristan Hughes?

  Thank you for listening to this episode of The Ancients. Please follow this show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps us and you'll be doing us a big favour. Don't forget, you can also listen to us and all of History Hits podcasts ad free and watch hundreds of TV documentaries when you subscribe at historyhit.com/subscribe. Lastly, if you want more ancient history videos and clips, then be sure to follow me on Instagram at @ancientstratum. That's enough from me and I'll see you in the next episode.

• 1:11:31Speaker 05

  Hi folks, it's Farnoosh Turabi from the So Money Podcast, here to talk about NerdWallet Wealth Partners. Making more money doesn't come with instructions, but that's where NerdWallet Wealth Partners comes in. They're a financial advisory firm built for high earners in their 30s and 40s. They create a financial plan with every client. It's basically a roadmap from where you are today to where you want to be. When you decide you want to retire five years earlier or spring for the bigger house, they'll run the numbers on what's possible and meet with you regularly. Think of NerdWallet Wealth Partners as the manual for high earners that you never got, plus someone who's actually read it. Learn more at nerdwalletwealthpartners.com/so money. NerdWallet Wealth Partners LLC is an SEC-registered investment advisor.

• 1:12:16Speaker 05

  Registration as an investment advisor does not imply a certain level of skill or training, nor does it constitute an endorsement by any securities regulator. Please see nerdwalletwealthpartners.com for disclosures and important information.

• 1:12:29Speaker 04

  The Quarter Pounder with Cheese is made with 100% fresh beef, cooked when you order it. Then comes the melted cheese, the slivered onions, the pickles, the ketchup, and the mustard. Add hot crispy fries and an ice cold Coke, all for $8. And if things go well, one loose fry at the bottom of the bag. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese meal, now $8. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba.