Pod Insights The Ancients Emperor Macrinus: Usurper of Rome About this episode Denzel Washington stars as Emperor Macrinus in the epic new movie Gladiator II, but who exactly was this shadowy ruler of Rome?
Join Tristan Hughes as he sits down with Dr Alex Imrie and Matilda Brown to explore the real story behind this lesser-known usurper of Rome, a North African-born knight who toppled the fratricidal tyrant Caracalla and took the throne for himself. Discover the dramatic and brutal events that shaped Macrinus' reign, including his conflict with the powerful women of the Severan dynasty and the fateful battles that sealed his fate.
Presented by Tristan Hughes. The producer is Joseph Knight, audio editor is Aidan Lonergan. The senior producer is Anne-Marie Luff.
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Transcript 10,997 words · 6 speakers
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1:42 Tristan Hughes? This episode is sponsored by Smart Travel, a new podcast from NerdWallet. You know that one friend who always finds the best travel deals, picks the right cards, and somehow ends up in first class for the price of coach? Smart Travel is like that friend, but in podcast form. They cover all things travel finance, so you can stop stressing and actually start enjoying your trips. I'm lucky enough to travel a fair bit. You might have heard me talking about being on tour with The Ancients in Australia and New Zealand quite recently.
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3:03 Tristan Hughes? It's the Ancients on History Hit. I'm Tristan Hughes, your host, and today, where we're keeping on the Roman Empire and the real stories of characters that feature in the new epic movie Gladiator 2. Now, in the last episode, I interviewed Dr. Alex Imrie from Edinburgh University about the real Roman emperors Caracalla and Geta that have a star role in the new Gladiator film. That was a fantastic chat, exploring the terrible relationship that these two brothers had, and how it ultimately ended with Geta's brutal murder in his mother's arms at the hands of Caracalla. But alongside Caracalla and Geta, there is another central figure in the new Gladiator
3:43 Tristan Hughes? movie who is based on a Roman emperor, a North African-born knight who toppled Caracalla and took the throne for himself. That man's name was Macrinus, played by Denzel Washington in the new movie. And in this episode, we're exploring the real Macrinus's story: who he was, his background, his rise to power, his rule, and ultimately, his demise. Now, for this episode, it only felt right to bring back Dr. Alex Imrie to continue the story from where we left off in the last episode, covering the reign and fall of Caracalla, and then the rise of Macrinus. However, we know how much you love it when we spice things up a bit, and to have not one, but two guests.
4:24 Tristan Hughes? So joining Alex, we also have another good friend of the podcast, Matilda Brown, a final year PhD candidate at Edinburgh University, whose main interest is what happens after Macrinus's reign and the extraordinary women, these Severan Empresses, who rise to the fore and also play a big role in the downfall of Macrinus. These two, Alex and Matilda, they have worked together for many years at Edinburgh. They have great rapport, they're brilliant speakers, and we all know each other very well. So no surprise, this was a really fun episode to record, and I'm excited to now share it with you. Sit back and relax as we wrap up our Gladiator 2 episodes with the story of the real Macrinus.
5:10 Tristan Hughes? Alex, Matilda, what a pleasure. Who thought that the stars would align and that this could happen? It is great to have you both on the podcast.
5:17 Speaker 03 Thank you for having us. Fantastic to be here and to share a space with Matilda, who, probably dating myself, I knew first when she was one of my students, and now she has become an extraordinary scholar of the third century.
5:29 Speaker 04 It's wonderful to be back, Tristan. Thank you so much for having us both. And of course, I know you from my uni undergrad days. This really all is coming full circle. I've had the pleasure of having Alex as a colleague now for years, in addition to being taught what I know on the third century by him. So, you know, I'd like to push that compliment back. Any excellence I have is purely due to him.
5:55 Tristan Hughes? But look at us. Look at you guys. Who'd have thought it? Who'd have thought it? Not me, but here we are. And what a great episode we have in store today. And I also want to highlight something straight away, because I can see this, but you listening to this episode, I mean, you can't, but Alex and Matilda, they're both dialing in from Edinburgh, but they're in the same room together. So during the course of this fun chat, you guys are always going to be seeing each other's reactions to questions and answers. So, so no pressure on you both, because you've got another added level there.
6:19 Speaker 04 Yeah, hopefully we'll manage to stay cool. We've got this.
6:22 Speaker 03 I'll just look for Matilda frowning at me over my answers. And hope to goodness that I keep myself right.
6:27 Tristan Hughes? What better test than an ancients podcast together? Now, our topic today is this figure of Macrinus. And of course with the release of Gladiator two, but I mean, I feel straight away for both you guys. Of all Roman emperors, seeing Macrinus in a Hollywood epic, this was not on my bingo card. He certainly feels like one of the less, well, known Roman emperors, particularly outside of academia.
6:50 Speaker 04 Certainly. I mean, I think that Macrinus is sort of the meeting point of my and Alex's work. Alex is really a Caracalla expert and I have, you know, done my work really beginning with the later Severan empresses. And so we kind of meet in this middle ground. And for me, at least, this was sort of the last person I would expect to see dramatized on the silver screen. But, you know, there's so much to do with him because we don't really know that much about him, except for what we'll tell you today. So.
7:19 Speaker 03 Yeah, that's a really good point. That he is in some ways a bit of a blank slate that's just ripe for Hollywood's to put in something where the evidence drops off for us. I mean, yeah, like you, Tristan and Matilda, when I looked at Macrinus, when I've read about Macrinus, I would not immediately assume that he was going to be the subject of a Hollywood epic. Certainly not cast by somebody as Titanic as Denzel Washington. I should get right off the bat. I am already starstruck and yet struggling to kind of square away what I've read about Macrinus, short-lived that he is, with this, this major Hollywood star who's going to make him into this, this character, I think, so that people will come away. Well, maybe, I think just from the trailer, I already am intrigued and kind of already predisposed to admire
8:04 Speaker 03 what he's doing with this character. So it will be interesting.
8:07 Tristan Hughes? And as you guys have highlighted there, so Alex, you focus more on Caracalla and that period before Macrinus and Matilda that period after. Alex, we have had you on the podcast very recently because the episode before, we've been talking all about the story of Caracalla and Getta. And we, we finished that episode with Caracalla's brutal murdering of Getta and the removal of Getta's image across the empire. So I feel we've got a few years to do before we reach Macrinus. So shall we summarize over the next few minutes or so, what are the main achievements of those years of Caracalla when he's ruling alone? Get us in the mood.
8:43 Speaker 03 Okay, so, well, shall we start with Geta laying on the floor in the Imperial Palace, absolutely brutalised by his older brother or by a bunch of centurions that he ordered? After that, Caracalla runs to the guard and the army and tries to secure his regime with those constituencies very quickly, which he does relatively successfully. Now, interestingly, the Historia Augusta gives us a little bit of a hint that there might have been some discord for Caracalla, inasmuch as they have the Second Legion Parthica that's based at Albanum, closed the doors on him, because they swore allegiance to both brothers, and what is this he's coming to them with about?
9:20 Tristan Hughes? Sorry, where, Albanum, did you say?
9:21 Speaker 03 Yes.
9:22 Tristan Hughes? Where's that?
9:23 Speaker 03 About twenty miles outside Rome.
9:24 Tristan Hughes? Okay.
9:25 Speaker 03 Which is interesting, inasmuch as it's called the Second Legion Parthica, you would think it was stationed in the east, but for all intents and purposes, and hugely oversimplifying it, it becomes something of a kind of mobile reserve, a mobile field army, that the emperors can take with them, usually on campaign in the east, it has to be said. So, Caracalla secures the support of the army. He has less success maybe securing the support of the Senate, he certainly gives a couple of speeches where he decries Geta as this villain, this enemy of the state, and shores up his own regime, but it's quite clear that he is never going to enjoy life in the capital. And so, about six months, no more than eight months maybe after the murder of Geta, he's
10:07 Speaker 03 already gone, he's already outside Rome, and he is on a journey that will be predominantly military, he will do multiple campaigns, and he will never return home from. Now, before we get on to that, I should say that there's one other point that he does while he's in Rome, which is, you know, I'm labouring because it's one of my sort of major passions when I study it. Before he leaves Rome, he seems to enact an edict that we now know as the Constitutio Antoniniana, or the Antonine Constitution. In one move, in one edict, he gives the rights of Roman citizenship to nearly every free person living within the Roman realm. It's a constitutional watershed. Then certainly, historically, scholars thought
10:50 Speaker 03 that citizenship was this kind of mechanical process. You know, you're defeated by Rome and then you're gradually brought into the body politic. It doesn't seem to be the case. Modern studies have suggested that only around thirty, thirty-three percent of the empire's total population were in franchise in 212, prior to the edict. So this is a remarkable move, and it's something that is quite avant-garde, it seems, for an emperor who's usually known as a bloodthirsty tyrant. He seems to want to secure this huge loyalty base after the murder of Geta, and this is one of the ways he does it, just by making everybody citizens in one move. It's incredible.
11:24 Tristan Hughes? That is one of the big events of Roman history, isn't it? If you could do like the big, big hitters, just like, don't want to understate just how significant a moment this is.
11:32 Speaker 03 Yep, it is a watershed moment for how citizenship is perceived, certainly. There have been a lot of arguments about what is the actual application of it. It could be just a kind of legal expedient to make everything a bit smoother. It could be a political expedient, as I've argued, to kind of make everybody accept the new narrative that Caracalla's laying down, that Geta was this villain. But whatever the rationale for it, it's a remarkable move, which is now part of the UNESCO World Heritage Register, I think it is. So it has a very, very esteemed now afterlife, but it's introduced by this kind of murderous villain who spends the next five years on campaign on the northern frontier and then eventually the eastern frontier, where he wages Warum Parthea. And if you're looking for the kind
12:17 Speaker 03 of the spark notes, the short version, he raises an army basically wherever he goes, through Germany, through Thrace, through Greece, into Asia Minor. The only other really important point that I would raise for listeners, if we're doing a very short version of Caracalla's reign here, is that he visits Alexandria, the city of Alexandria in Egypt. Now, Caracalla, you may know, is a big Alexander the Great fanboy.
12:42 Tristan Hughes? Oh, he loves him. Absolutely loves the man.
12:45 Speaker 03 Cannot get enough of Alexander. Claims that he's Alexander reborn, according to the senators, according to Dio. Although I question that to some extent. Anyway, he arrives in Alexandria. This is supposed to be the pinnacle of his imperial tour. I mean, he's going to the city of his idol, he's visiting the tomb of Alexander, and he's offering sacrifices to the god Serapis as well. Now, he stays there for a few months. He arrives in the winter of 215 and he leaves in the early months of AD 216. The visit has gone incredibly sour at that point, though. There are sources, Dio, Herodian, the Historia Augusta. They all agree that for some reason or another, there's a breakout of civil disobedience, rioting in the city, and Caracalla puts it down violently.
13:28 Speaker 03 And the sources, while they may exaggerate slightly, they agree that he probably killed around a quarter of the city's population before leaving. I mean, it's a remarkable contrast, that emperor giving everybody citizenship and then laying waste to one of the foremost cities of the empire before he leaves. It's a remarkable story of kind of extremities, I would say, is Caracalla's reign. And then his final months are spent on campaign against Parthia.
13:53 Tristan Hughes? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, let's not release too much there. Okay, I gotta, I pause you exactly there. Too many spoilers there. Matilda, are there some really interesting things that take place in Caracalla's reign? Where there's like the people surrounding him that really helped set the scene of this, what seems to be kind of this new centre of the Roman Empire whilst Caracalla is travelling, which is the eastern part of his empire?
14:14 Speaker 04 Well, sure. I think that one of the really critical things that we see happen in this period during Caracalla's sole reign is his mom steps in, Julia Domna, who has been Empress of the Roman Empire for the past however many years that Severus reigned, was there at the moment of assassination when the elder son kills the younger. And after Geta's death, or even before Geta's death, she's granted all of these extravagant titles. She's granted more honorary titles than any empress had previously been given. She's named Mother of the Army Camp, of the Senate, of the Fatherland. She's named Pia Felix. Titles that have only those last two had only previously been given to emperors before.
14:59 Speaker 04 So we're seeing these honors lavished upon her and we don't really know what those mean. There's some debate in the scholarship, but we do get a sense that she's kind of stepping into almost an admin role for Caraculla. She's answering imperial letters. She's traveling across the empire with him and eventually ends up in Antioch as this eastern imperial center. She's answering letters. She's receiving petitions. She is holding public receptions for all of the most prominent men. The actual text of the Dio, you know, passage where this comes from the Greek, it says these are imperial receptions. These are official, public events and she's sorting
15:41 Speaker 04 through all of the mail. She's kind of the main admin on board. She's included in letters sent to the senate. This looks like a sort of official position and this is a more, I would say, official recognition from the sources of a role held by an empress like this than we have seen before. So Caraculla is making this movement eastward. He's a military emperor. We see him doing all of these sort of incredible and horrible things. And we know that there's got to be sort of a gaggle of administrators around him that are helping him rule this empire as he is leading the army.
16:23 Speaker 04 And his mom is one of them, which is incredible and becomes important to the Macrinus story.
16:28 Tristan Hughes? I mean, absolutely does, but something which blows my mind straight away is isn't Julia Domna the one who, at least in one colorful story, her younger son, Getta, is murdered in her arms? So, and now she's actively supporting her other son who killed her other son. I mean, it is absolutely brutal stuff where, you know, sometimes you have things like Game of Thrones where it's fictional stuff, but the actual history of certain events is more interesting than than fictional stories and this feels one of them. It is absolutely mad.
16:56 Speaker 04 It really is, and it's brutal to think about. And our sources talk about it a lot. How does she cope with this? We are told that she's pushed out of the public eye. And I've never really known how I feel about that description of her sort of disappearance from the public face of the imperial family following Geta's death. I don't know if it's that Caracalla says, Mom, you gotta get the hell out of Dodge because I don't want you here and I need to do this myself. I'm a big boy now. Or if it's really that she needs time to grieve. And we get a little bit of both from the source tradition. But in the end, she kind of steps up and does what she has to, I suppose, for her last remaining son.
17:37 Speaker 03 Yeah, I mean, family dynamics are complicated in the Roman imperial period. I mean, I suppose you could make the argument for for any monarchical or autocratic system. What goes on within the family dynamic is is an absolute mystery. And that, for me as well, is one of those big mysteries. If Di was correct that she was in the room at the point of Geta's murder, then it is, to our modern sensibility, absolutely unthinkable that she could then go on and be the faithful servant and the administrative figurehead of this regime for another four and a half, five years. It is utterly, utterly remarkable. I mean, Di will paints her in a very particular way, as I'm sure Matilde will talk about later. He depicts her as being kind of power hungry in her own right.
18:22 Speaker 03 So there's a little bit of a complicating factor in how our ancient literature talk about Julia Domna in as much as she's a powerful imperial woman and she can't really shake that baggage from some of these rather conservative men. But it is, to this day, one of these big mysteries. How on earth did they work that out? It's a very difficult dinner table situation thereafter.
18:43 Tristan Hughes? Well, let's move on to the figure of Macrinus and how he fits into this dysfunctional family. And this time of Caracalla in the East. Alex, first of all, who was Macrinus?
18:54 Speaker 03 That is the million dollar question, isn't it?
18:56 Tristan Hughes? Oh, really?
18:57 Speaker 03 Okay. Well, I mean, I think our sources give us a very particular version of who this individual is. But often he is a foil either to the violent extremity of Caracalla or he is just the pre runner to the later Severan era. I mean, often when you read even textbooks about this era, you'll have the Severan era and Macrinus will barely get a mention, such as the kind of limited amount that we know of him. In terms of his background, we know that he was born in the Roman province of Mauritania, so on the North African coast. And he was something, this is something that will become important for his story later. He was not from a senatorial family. He was not from a highly aristocratic
19:40 Speaker 03 family. He was a member of the equestrian order. So that second property class of Rome. And I don't want listeners to think that, you know, this is a kind of middle class for want of a better description. These people are still often obscenely wealthy. It's just that they don't have the family bloodlines of the senatorial order.
20:00 Tristan Hughes? The equivalent, some said they're like the knights or something. Is that right?
20:03 Speaker 03 Absolutely. I mean, the name, the Ordo Equestre, the Equites, it really all has that kind of equestrian knightly vibe to it. And historically, it was, you know, these people could afford horses to engage in warfare with. But certainly, it's by Macrinus's time, it is just a large social class within Roman society. And so this is the kind of context into which he's born. Our Dio and Herodian are fairly in much in agreement that he is trained as a lawyer. And he, I think it's Dio tells us that he's maybe not the most inventive legal mind out there, but he is quite diligent in his following of the law. And this seems to bring him into the orbit of the Praetorian prefect in the
20:47 Speaker 03 early 3rd century, Plotianus, infamous for his attempted coup later on against the Severans.
20:53 Tristan Hughes? Yes, we talked about him in the last episode, didn't we? Yes.
20:55 Speaker 03 We did. Yep. So sort of the internal problems that the Severan household faces in the 3rd century, a lot of it comes down to this Plotianus figure. And according to Dio, Macrinus is quite lucky, actually, not to be tarred by association and kind of gotten rid of after the Plotianus affair. But it seems that for a while, he kind of holds junior magistracies thereafter. I think the one office that Dio tells us Septimius Severus allows them after is kind of like a traffic superintendent on the Via Flaminia. So it's a little bit of a kind of step down from working in the Praetorian prefect's office.
21:27 Tristan Hughes? Waving flags, like red and green flags, which wagons can go kind of thing on the
21:30 Speaker 03 Well, that's how I like to imagine it. I'm sure it was probably much more administrative, but I do like to imagine him as a kind of glorified traffic cop for a few years in the wilderness. But he eventually, as Severus's reign goes into Caracalla's, he, his career seems to steadily increase again. He occupies a number of procuratorial posts.
21:50 Tristan Hughes? And ends up as Praetorian prefect himself.
21:52 Speaker 04 The one thing that I guess I would add is just my quick review of the sources this morning. Macrinus is really pushed as the legal nerd Praetorian prefect, along with his co prefect, who is sort of the military commander. So even under Caracalla, he's viewed as this kind of pencil pusher, dorky lawyer, which stands very much in stark contrast from the Macrinus figure that I've seen in these gladiator trailers. And I just can't get enough of it. It's been cracking me up. But yeah, I mean, that that legal history, that's really what we know of him. And I, you know, I think the thing that has been interesting to me, thinking about sort of the interaction with women is whether this bureaucratic role that
22:34 Speaker 04 he's always had puts him in any contact with the imperial women earlier in the reign. And there's no way that we can tell, but it would make sense if they sort of ended up working on some of the same objects, maybe. They certainly would have known one another.
22:50 Tristan Hughes? They're helping with the bureaucracy and all of that. So funny, like the legal nerd of the two. And of course, you've highlighted there's, you know, there are two Praetorian prefects, aren't there? It's a very, a nice, interesting other factor to highlight.
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25:00 Tristan Hughes? Well, let's get on to the main, well, the first big main event in Macrinus's story is rise to power. So what is the situation in the East in early 217 that ultimately results in the fall of Caracalla and the rise of this pencil-pushing Praetorian prefect, Macrinus?
25:19 Speaker 03 So in early 217, Caracalla is in the midst of a military campaign against Parthia, against the Parthian Empire. This is something that he had started in 216.
25:31 Tristan Hughes? That's Iraq area today, isn't it?
25:33 Speaker 03 Yes, that's correct. And under the Parthian royal household, we've not quite got to the stage in history where this becomes the much more aggressive Sassanid Persian regime. We're still in the final years of the Arsacid Parthian royal household. Now, the campaign that Caracalla wages has been rather inconclusive. To everybody's frustration, the first campaigning season, 216 to 17, appears not to have produced a single meaningful clash between Roman and Parthian forces. I think it's Herodian gives us this rather convoluted idea of Caracalla trying to outsmart the Parthians at a wedding reception, which is, I think, a lot of historical bunk. But in reality, it's been a frustrating year
26:17 Speaker 03 of campaigning. Caracalla wages another campaigning season immediately because that's basically his style. That's, that's him. He is a soldier emperor at that point. And it's quite clear, I think, reading between the lines of our sources, particularly Cassius Dio. That this is not going well. The soldiers themselves are starting to get a little bit frustrated, I think, with the lack of any kind of decisive outcome. And importantly for Caracalla, we've seen a real diminishment in his imperial concilium. That is to say, the group of senators are people that would usually surround an emperor and offer day-to-day advice. The account that Dio offers us is very fragmentary, but it suggests that basically there's only one senator left in
26:59 Speaker 03 that circle at all. This consular guy called Aurelianus. So Caracalla is in the field, mired down in a campaign, which doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Macrinus is there as Praetorian prefect, but it seems that there is a much smaller circle around Caracalla at this point as well, as everybody seems to be getting increasingly fed up with him as an emperor as much as a commander.
27:22 Tristan Hughes? His mum's not there at the moment either, so his family members aren't there. He's in the midst of the campaign. The campaign's not going well, soldiers getting more angry. I feel like we've seen this type of scenario again and again in history. I'm guessing then the soldiers, they just decide to take matters into their own hands, and Macrinus takes advantage.
27:37 Speaker 04 I would say about that much. My favorite, I can't remember which source it's in specifically, but we get this very detailed narrative of Caracalla's ultimate demise. There's a lot that kind of begins to boil under the surface. We get in Dio, we get a letter from Rome is sent to Julia Domna, reporting a prophecy that Macrinus and his son Diodumaniannus will take the purple. And another letter simultaneously sent by by Julianus from Rome to Macrinus. So we have these two letters speeding across the empire. And Domna, who was sorting the mail,
28:22 Speaker 04 you know, like a good mother administrator in Antioch, opens this letter and goes, my God, my son is going to get assassinated, and she is too late. Caracalla meets his fate. He's travelling, and I believe this is in the Dio, Alex, you'll have to correct me here. He stops and says, I need to relieve myself, and then gets stabbed in the back, which is a hell of a way to go.
28:50 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah. Caracalla has been in the midst of this rather frustrating campaign. It seems visiting a number of kind of local sites and towns and religious sites. And he's been to a lunar deity near the site of Karai, which, you know, those of you that maybe know Roman Republican history know that that is a kind of disastrous area.
29:07 Tristan Hughes? Oh, Crassus, yes.
29:08 Speaker 03 Crassus, Crassus meets his gold-plated finish near Karai. And it's on the way back from that visit that he stops to empty his bladder. And his guards, or at least an officer within the guard descends upon him and stabs him brutally. And yeah, I like Matilla, I just love this idea of these two letters coming across. It's highly dramatic. It's very diol inasmuch as the whole thing is kicked off by this portent or this prophecy. There's no real insight into the nitty gritty of what's going on. Actually, it's all down in there are literary sources to this prophecy that that Macrinus will seize power and his son will be named an emperor as well.
29:52 Speaker 03 It would be interesting to know exactly what was really going on in the military camp around that point. But one way or another, Macrinus feels vulnerable. And it seems that he doesn't waste any time to take action lest the letter from Antioch get to the front and reach Caracalla's eyes before he can do anything.
30:08 Tristan Hughes? I mean, well, it certainly makes for good television, I must say that. What a way to go for Caracalla. That's terrible. What happens next? Is there like an immediate reaction? If Macrinus has not killed Caracalla himself, is it that? How does he then take advantage? Does he know that he's got these powerful figures? And let's say the assassin as well, that they're very much on his side? Has he got a plan as to what happens next?
30:31 Speaker 04 There's different narratives. My favorite one is, you know, he, Herodian tells us, he cried, weeps over the body and is, you know, so sorrowful.
30:42 Tristan Hughes? Good acting, yep.
30:44 Speaker 04 All the while has, you know, organized this from the get go and then sends the ashes of Caracalla back to his mother in Antioch, where she promptly says both sons are gone and ends her own life. Alex, I'll let you get into the intricacy. The better narrative.
31:01 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's it. It does seem, no matter who you read, that there there seems to be a brief interregnum. Because Macrinus can't step forward and say, right, chaps, we did a good job here. It's my turn now. There's no way that that would be acceptable, even with just the army surrounding them. So Macrinus, I think Matilda's right to say that's that's probably what he does. He makes this great show. Oh, my goodness, there's been a murder. And the assassin is hunted down by some of Caracalla's loyal bodyguards and is killed. So in a way that helps Macrinus because there are no loose ends to implicate him at that point in the murder. Even if later on, the kind of story creeps out that he's been implicated in some way.
31:41 Speaker 03 And so it seemed that there are at least a couple of days between the murder of Caracalla and the accession of Macrinus where the army, those who are around from the imperial court are more or less compelled to put somebody on the imperial throne. The army is hundreds of miles into enemy territory at this point. The party and king seems to be raising forces to counter the Roman army in this region. An army and empire without a commander at this point is unthinkable. And so Macrinus, as one of the most senior magistrates of the court, is apparently installed at this point. And that this in itself is a remarkable chain of events because, as I said earlier,
32:22 Speaker 03 Macrinus is an equestrian. That does not happen. Macrinus is the first man of equestrian status to achieve the purple. This is this is a real watershed moment for who gets to be in charge of the Roman Empire.
32:34 Tristan Hughes? So Macrinus has taken advantage of being there in the east and and the soldiers are deciding who the next emperor is and making this unprecedented change. I mean, so militarily, I guess he's now straight away, he's got to deal with continuing that campaign. But Matilda, at the same time, you've already mentioned how Julia Domna, so Caracalla's mother, she's now lost both her children. She commits suicide. But I'm guessing there are also other members of the royal family that surrounded Caracalla who have like royal blood. I mean, how does Macrinus then decide? How do I treat these figures, especially if I'm in the east?
33:06 Speaker 04 What do I do with these other figures? So we need to go back because the first narrative that I told you, that's the one that's in Herodian. Dio tells us a totally different story. Okay. Julia Domna learns of her son's death, according to Cassius Dio. She's in Antioch. And Macrinus sends her a letter and he says, you can retain your title as Augusta. Can stay empress. You can retain your praetorian guard. So she keeps the imperial bodyguard. You can do whatever you want. Just stay there.
33:39 Speaker 04 And she does. And she, according to Dio, she considers ending her life. And then she sort of gets it together a little bit. And starts scheming with the soldiers who are around her. And then eventually dies of breast cancer before anything can be taken anywhere. But this is an incredibly important moment. If what Dio is reporting is true, this is really unprecedented or nearly unprecedented for Roman empresses. The only precedent that we have is Domitia, Domitian's wife, who is reported, you know, rumored to have been involved in his assassination and may have had more new imperial portraiture created under Trajan
34:23 Speaker 04 and left up around Trajan's forum. She continued to be celebrated as an empress and sort of retired in luxury with her brickworks in Italy. That is the only precedent we have. So why Macrinus would decide to, you know, keep this woman on with a title, which did not happen for Domitia. She retired without the title. We know this from the inscriptions from her brickworks. She keeps the title. She keeps the praetorian guard. She is still, you know, for all intents and purposes, empress of the Roman Empire. And This is something that's very perturbing. I think to anybody who looks closely at this period, there's this huge question of why.
35:06 Speaker 04 And Alex and I were talking about this prior to sitting down with you. And we kind of, we still have not really been able to wrap our minds around it. It is part of why I kind of wanted to bring up, you know, is it just that they know each other? Cause they've been in these bureaucratic circles. Is it that Macrinus is like, well, I just, I just like this woman. Does he already know that she's dying from cancer? And so
35:31 Tristan Hughes? I've just seen, I've just overseen the murder of, of her son, but I quite, yeah, I quite like the woman. So yeah, yeah.
35:36 Speaker 04 So I'll leave her alone, you know? Does he know that she's dying of cancer? And so he wants to, you know, he presents himself as in, he adopts the name Severus to present himself as a continuator of the Severan dynasty. He elevates himself on Septimius Severus's birthday. Is he trying to use her to create this continuity with the Severans? Sort of artificially knowing that she's really not going to last that long. It's a big question mark. It's really, really interesting. This doesn't happen with any other empress at any point, especially for one who is so incredibly influential and involved in the running of the empire.
36:21 Speaker 04 And Macrinus really shoots himself in the foot here because he, you know, allows Julia Domna to survive and she eventually, you know, dies, I think a couple of months after her son, probably in the summer of 217. And all around her are her family, her older sister and her older sister's two daughters, each of whom have a son. And she sends this family back to Amasa, the familial sort of home place, which is sometimes described as sort of a backwater in Syria, but has a massive temple to the deity, the solar deity Elagabal.
37:04 Speaker 04 And Julia Maesa promptly enrolls both of her grandsons. In this priesthood, which is the ancestral priesthood that her family has belonged to and has tons of money and tons of property at her disposal. And Macrinus, thinking that this won't be an issue for him, allows them to kind of retire. And Maesa immediately starts scheming and brings in nearby legions and starts bribing them and sort of fomenting a new Severan dynasty at coup to put her grandson Elagabalus on the throne.
37:39 Tristan Hughes? I think we'll we'll get back to that in a second, but I mean, you've mentioned that, I mean, it is really interesting part of the story, but Matilda, just to just to clarify, because you said a few names there. So Julia Maesa, so Julia Domna dies.
37:50 Speaker 04 Yeah.
37:51 Tristan Hughes? She lays the seeds for like kind of fomenting rebellion against Macrinus very early on. Julia Maesa, so this is a new name, that is Julia Domna's elder sister, is it?
38:00 Speaker 04 Yep, it's her big sister.
38:02 Tristan Hughes? And quickly introduce, who are these children of Julia Maesa who are also part of this family? We'll just introduce their names now and then come back to them a bit later.
38:08 Speaker 04 Sure, we have her elder daughter is named Julia Soamius. These are all women with the name Julia, and so it gets very confusing. Her elder daughter is named Julia Soamius, and she has a son who is the future Emperor Elagabalus. And then her younger daughter is named Julia Mameya, who also has a son who is the future Emperor Severus Alexander. And at this point, all of the men in the family, the husbands of Julia Soamius and Julia Maesa certainly have died. And so, you know, one reason that Macrinus would not view them as a threat. These are women without sort of any male familial support.
38:48 Speaker 04 And the husband, it appears that Julia Mameya has a second, she's in her second marriage to somebody who has not really had a formidable career that would make him a threat to Macrinus's fledgling reign.
39:06 Tristan Hughes? All right, well, there you go. Well, you've got those lots brewing in the background and we will come back to them. But if we focus back on the figure of Macrinus, Alex, so he's spared Julius Domna and Matilda's just given that story of the other Julius as well. But of course, this is on the eastern part of the empire and he's been elected and he's unprecedented. He's not one of the most elite figures of the Roman Empire, not belonging to the royal family either. As news starts filtering back to the heart of the Roman Empire and places like the Senate, really Macrinus must be a little bit worried about the, like, if his title as the new emperor will be confirmed. I mean, what's going through his mind as he's also got this military venture that he's now got to deal with at the same time?
39:48 Tristan Hughes? What do you think is going through his mind? What does he have to do to try and consolidate his position really quickly? It seems a difficult position.
39:53 Speaker 03 Oh, it's undoubtedly a difficult position and it's ironic, though, you say that he would be worried about news getting to Rome. It seems that Rome is probably the safest environment that he could have been in. Certainly Dio and Herodian a little bit less. They say it's questionable why he didn't just disband the army immediately upon ending the Parthian campaign, which we'll get on to in a moment, and just high-tail it back to Rome. Why he dallied in the east and why he himself ended up in Antioch for a while. It seems that he himself wasn't sure how to respond to the kind of myriad problems and myriad little situations that he was facing as emperor and that would ultimately cost him his life. In the immediate sense, he does send letters to the Senate in Rome.
40:36 Speaker 03 And it's interesting the way he tries to kind of seize the initiative, but also pander to the Senate as well. In his first letter, he apparently just claims a bunch of imperial titles. And this is where his imperial nomenclature changes and he adds Severus to his naming tradition. The Senate are a little bit confused by how presumptuous this new de facto emperor is being, I think, by claiming all of these imperial titles. But at the same time, they're just tremendously happy that somebody has gotten rid of Caracalla. And so for the, in the very short term, they're just kind of happy to let things roll and let him be the emperor. Now, his second letter follows after he concludes the Parthian campaign.
41:18 Speaker 03 He initially tries to negotiate with the Parthian king, because the Parthian king's bearing down on the Roman army at this point. Parthian king's having none of it. He wants Rome out of the Mesopotamian region. He wants them to rebuild all of the forts that they've destroyed at their own cost. And basically to apologize to everyone on their way out. And so, you know, rebuild the wall, I suppose you could use a modern political parlance. Now, Macrinus refuses. I mean, he's in no position to accede to that kind of demand. And indeed, it would have been political suicide with the army around him to be seen, I think, to surrender everything. So he has to fight, initially at least, and it doesn't go very well. The Roman army is defeated in the field at Nisibits. And he has to come to another negotiated conclusion.
42:01 Speaker 03 Now, in historical terms, he doesn't give away as much as the Parthian king seems to have wanted. So it's, it's not a completely dishonorable peace. And yet, in his communication, he's trying to big this up, that, that he has secured peace with honor. And this is where the threads start to unravel, because not everybody accepts this narrative. And certainly the army, while they may have been frustrated by Caracalla's campaign, this slightly ignominious end to their campaigning does him no favors either. And so I think it's very easy to see with hindsight how Macrinus, kind of his, his regime comes unfurled within the space of months. But it would be a mistake to class him as inactive. I think he gets an unfair rap. I think he is dealing with a very difficult and unprecedented situation.
42:46 Speaker 03 He's having to sort of set a new political narrative in motion at the same time as having to inherit a campaign of his predecessor, which is less than, than stellar. And I think this whole move about keeping the sovereign women alive. Yes, sure, we know it's a strategic tactical error. But if he is trying to paint himself as the sovereign continuator, as a way of kind of glossing over his equestrian heritage. It seems to me at least the sensible move. I mean, I would hate to sort of put myself into Macrinus's shoes, but I think it's coherent as a set of policy. So I think there's a reason why he doesn't retreat to Rome immediately. But I think ironically, that may have been
43:28 Speaker 03 the one course of action that could have saved his regime long term.
43:32 Tristan Hughes? He aligns himself with the Severans, but also his son as well. He's got a young son at this time. Is he a very young son or teenage? Do we know much about that?
43:39 Speaker 03 So he's barely 10 years old. Is that right, Matilda?
43:42 Speaker 04 Yeah, born around 208, so he would be about 10, nine, 10 years old.
43:45 Speaker 03 And he's initially named as Caesar, and that is the extent of his formal acclamations that get agreed by the Senate. Macrinus will later name Diaduemenian, his son, as a co-Augustus in the kind of frantic last few weeks of his regime. But the Senate barely even hear about this by the time he's assassinated.
44:07 Tristan Hughes? How does it all start to unravel for the poor of Macrinus?
44:10 Speaker 04 So he's made the critical mistake of underestimating Julia Domna's big sister, who he's sent back to her power base. She is, you know, this family are the descendants of the priest kings of Amesa, so they already have tremendous regional influence. Also, Julia Domna had at the very beginning of the reign of Septimius Severus already been aligned with the military pay on the coinage issued in the East. We see the very first coinage issued with liberalitas, you know, military distribution reverses struck in her name. So when Julia Maesa comes in and she says, I'm going to give you guys money, I think that it probably makes a lot of sense to people that she really will pay up. They're
44:54 Speaker 04 used to the women in this family giving the military lots of money. So she comes in and she says, I have these two grandsons, and they have both been enrolled in the temple of Elagabal. And from what we hear, the Third Gallic Legion, which is stationed near Amesa at Raphanea, are really big fans of the cult of Elagabal, and they love to come to the temple and watch the ceremonies. And they think that the Beautiful young Elagabalus, the head priest, is really doing a fantastic job. And she says, oh, well, by the way, he also is the illegitimate son of Caraculla, and I'm going to give you a hell of a lot of cash if you put him on the throne.
45:37 Speaker 04 And so it works. And on the 15th, the evening of the 15th of May 218, Maesa and Elagabalus's mother, Maesa's older daughter, Julia Soamius, and her younger daughter, Julia Memea, and Julia Memea's son, Severus Alexander, all get snuck into the fortress of the Third Gallic Legion at Raphanea. And then the next morning, on the 16th, they bring Elagabalus up onto the ramparts, and they say, here he is, the son of Caraculla. He is the legitimate emperor of Rome. And things kick off immediately.
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47:41 Tristan Hughes? Do they actually think he was the son of Caracalla? Do historians think he was the son of Caracalla today?
47:46 Speaker 04 No, we have, no, we have his father's gravestone. It was set up by Julius Suaemius. We know that he had a sibling at some point from that gravestone, though we have no record of this sibling in the literary evidence. However, we do have provincial coinage that has Elagabalus on one side, his face, provincial coinage struck in the east, and then the face of Plautilla, Caracalla's executed and exiled wife on the other side. So clearly, people are really running with this in the Eastern Empire, and it seems to be working.
48:29 Speaker 04 You know, he very much is accepted by a lot of these Eastern legions.
48:38 Speaker 04 It takes a little while, it takes a couple of months, but Macrinus's forces respond pretty quickly. And his Praetorian prefect, Julianus, who's the one who, you know, throwback, sent the letter to Macrinus saying, "By the way, there has been a prophecy that you are going to become emperor." We throw back to the beginning of this episode. He immediately marches on Elagabalus's forces and things with the Second Parthian Legion, I believe. Again, throwback to that legion.
49:12 Tristan Hughes? The one outside Rome, yeah.
49:13 Speaker 04 Yes, it's been brought east. Things go very poorly. He is, there is an immediate coup outside of Raphanea. His soldiers say, "We are going to join the Third Gallic Legion. We're joining Team Elagabalus." And they execute him, and they behead him. And they send to Macrinus in Apamea, his head wrapped up with his ring, and they deliver it to him at a dinner.
49:43 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's kind of gruesome stuff. I mean, just to go back a second, I'm a little bit more cynical on the whole Elagabalus as the son of Caracalla thing. I think, I think everybody knew this was complete hokum, but we're being offered so much cash that it was an easy conceit to accept. And also, I think it was probably a very thinly veiled statement by this quote unquote Severan cause, that they have more bloodline claim to being the Severans than Macrinus with his new Severan name coming out of nowhere. And yeah, events at Rafinha, I think, kind of show that the, the ground is ripe for the Severans to stage this counter-revolution. It's interesting that Macrinus, I think it's in Herodian's telling of this episode, she or Julianus has been sent with detachments
50:26 Speaker 03 to try and secure the Third Legion. Macrinus is at Apomia because that is the legionary fortress site of the Second Parthica when it is in the east. So he is actively trying to court that legion at the point where Julianus is, is murdered. And Herodian tells us that Macrinus gives this long speech and, and offers a bunch of money and a ton of honors and the troops at Apomia take the money, accept the honors, and then one of them pulls Julianus's head out the basket to show Macrinus and Macrinus is just penniless defeated. And that's it. Has to go back to Antioch, empty-handed, but at least with his head.
51:05 Speaker 04 Yeah, pretty grim stuff. I think it's also, this is the point where as soon as Macrinus learns about Elagabalus's coup, that he declares his son, the young Dio Domenianus, to be Augustus. And he also sends a letter to the Senate where he officially declares war on the usurper and his mother and grandmother. And that comes from Dio, who we think would have heard this letter read out in the Senate. So that's a pretty incredible moment here where we have the Emperor of Rome declaring war on a woman and child.
51:39 Speaker 03 Yeah.
51:40 Speaker 04 That's the political faction that he's up against.
51:43 Speaker 03 It's quite something. And it feels like this is the big test room, isn't it? It's all or nothing. I feel a bit sorry for his son, who's basically been told, yeah, you're now co-emperor with me, which also means if it goes wrongly for me, it's going to go wrongly for you. Sorry. So all that feels missing from this tale to make it a Hollywood epic in its own right, like the real history of the story of Macrinus, is a big battle. Is that what we're getting to next? Is this the big climax of the story? Oh yeah, there was a big battle, all right. The big battle takes place just outside Antioch, actually. The sources disagree a little bit on the location of the battle. Some want to see it situated further east, but it seems that in all of Macrinus's attempts to secure a power base, he really doesn't have a tremendously large force around him.
52:26 Speaker 03 It's mainly comprised of his loyal Praetorians and some other local formations that he has brought with him to fight this battle. And all of the defected forces that are now team Elagabalus are on top of him and a large battle ensues. And doesn't the account of the battle shifts and changes between our sources. In one telling, Macrinus's forces just don't put up a fight. They're steamrolled by the Elagabalus forces. But, and I think this is where Matilda can offer insight, there is another telling where Macrinus's forces actually put up some kind of stiff resistance and Elagabalus's forces, all of these cheats and defectors, on the verge of breaking and retreating.
53:06 Speaker 04 Yes, this is one of my favorite moments of Roman history. We have, you know, Elagabalus's forces who are about to give up. They're really lagging and Elagabalus is there and he's trying to cheer them on. And what actually succeeds in getting them to put up a fight and ultimately defeat Macrinus and bring Elagabalus to the throne is the presence of Julia Maesa and Julius Soameus on the battlefield.
53:35 Speaker 03 Oh, fantastic.
53:36 Speaker 04 And they step out of a chariot and with their cries and lamentations, according to Cassius Dio, they manage to kind of rally all of these soldiers and get them, you know, back in the game. And that is how Elagabalus ultimately wins.
53:51 Speaker 03 Wow. And so they win the day. Macrinus, is he killed on the field? I mean, what happens to Macrinus?
53:57 Tristan Hughes? Sent his son after that if he's he's lost his army and now it looks like his game is up.
54:03 Speaker 03 It seems like both of them, Macrinus and Diomedes, actually survive the conflict itself and they make to flee. They are caught in different locations. It seems that Macrinus is caught in Bithynia, so that that modern Turkish coastline.
54:17 Tristan Hughes? That's quite far. That's near Istanbul. Okay, so that's that's pretty far, yeah.
54:21 Speaker 03 It seems like he's trying to make for a port to actually get out of Dodge and maybe even go towards Rome. Maybe he's realised at this point that he has to get to the capital in order to raise any kind of significant resistance. And I think it's Herodion's telling, although it might be Dio, it might be Dio actually, because it's kind of supernatural. He gets in the boat and the boat starts to make progress and then a contrary wind comes and forces that boat back into port. And Macrinus is captured thereafter and his captors don't really know what to do with him at first. But it seems like on the road back to Antioch, they make the decision just to assassinate him and he is killed or beheaded en route.
54:59 Speaker 03 Now, he sent his son, I think at some point in that escape, he's actually sent his son, so the sources tell us, towards the Parthian border. He's sent his son to follow the good graces of the Parthian king after their negotiated settlement. Which suggests that maybe, if there's any truth to it, maybe the settlement was a little bit more substantial than our sources want to accept. But in any event, it's a futile effort. His trade, his baggage train or whatever, his his Cortes is caught. And he is murdered in the middle of that escape route as well.
55:31 Tristan Hughes? It's such a short story, isn't it? But like, but full of so many different extraordinary events. You've got it all and and it's like the dynasty of Macrinus, where they didn't last very long, but still for him to actually have got there in the first point from his, you know, pen pushing Praetorian background and his non senatorial background and from Mauritania to North Africa, Morocco area today.
55:54 Tristan Hughes? It's an extraordinary story. Is it a story that continues to be popular with Cassius Dio and senators and people in the Roman Empire following his execution? Or do the winners of this conflict, do they decide to try and remove his name almost?
56:10 Speaker 03 In terms of his immediate political legacy, it's almost non-existent. He's condemned, he is a road hump, it seems, or a bump in the road, rather, in the otherwise uninterrupted Severan story. His legacy is condemned by the new Severan regime, and that's really pretty much the end of it. As you say, it is so short, he's not really had enough time to lay down any more significant roots or create any kind of significant legacy. And certainly, while the senators seem to have been happy enough to accept him in the short term, equestrian as he was, Dio's account is just characterized, start to finish, by
56:49 Speaker 03 a rank snobbery as a senator against this absolute upstart. Now, Herodian's account is interesting because it's written slightly later. It's written probably in the 240s, maybe even into the 250s AD, at which point, who gets to be a Roman emperor is slightly different. So we find a little bit more emphasis in Macrinus's identity and Macrinus's apparent attempts to explain that identity in Herodian's account. But that's probably because Herodian was writing under the Emperor Philip the Arab, who himself was of equestrian descent and had risen to imperial power through military strength and through a coup that way. So that's quite an interesting way that Macrinus's identity is squared away by one
57:34 Speaker 03 writer owing to kind of history repeating a little bit later down the line. Only a couple of decades, mind you, but still, the divergence in the sources there is quite obvious. Dio of his time Arch-Senatorial, even though he's glad Caracalla's dead, he just cannot swallow this lower-class person. Again, still obscenely wealthy, holding the Imperial Throne.
57:56 Tristan Hughes? Well, we'll wrap up their story of what happens next, the Third Century Crisis and the later Severans. I know both of you find really interesting, particularly you, Matilda, and we've done an episode, I think we've done a couple, we've done a couple of episodes in the past about the sisters, Soemius, Moes, and Mamea, what happens next. But that's several stories for several more episodes. I think the best way to end this one is I'd like to get both of your, what are both of your thoughts on Macrinus, your overall thoughts on Macrinus and how he's regarded today? Having done this chat and having studied this figure as part of your wider research over the past few years. Matilda, I'll let you go first.
58:33 Speaker 04 You know, I kind of feel bad for the guy. The Severans were not a terribly, for lack of a better word, nice family. And he seems like he really just kind of wanted to do right by the Roman Empire. And it seems like he kind of was doing right by the Roman Empire during his brief reign. I think he terribly underestimated the later Severan women and made a massive mistake in underestimating what these women could do and the importance of the Severan bloodline coming through these women. But perhaps he deserves more attention than he really got because maybe if we had kept Macrinus, we wouldn't have seen the Third Century Crisis. I don't know, Alex, what do you think?
59:18 Speaker 03 Oh, that's, that's a bold statement. I mean, I think we're going to head in that direction, maybe regardless, but it is a really interesting counterfactual. I tend to agree with Matilda. I think Macrinus deserves a lot more attention. I think he... Is is completely overwhelmed by the circumstances that he inherits. I think that's really the defining feature of him. Now, I'm somebody who would like to go back and revisit his rise to power, though, because this whole prophecy declaring that he will be an emperor seems a very neat way to explain it in narrative terms and to kind of almost give him a blank slate or a green light towards this. I would like to know whether he was a little bit more calculating, you know, the protege of Plotianus at one point. Has that
1:00:02 Speaker 03 kind of ambitious Praetorian identity rubbed off on him?
1:00:05 Tristan Hughes? The scheming bureaucrat.
1:00:06 Speaker 03 Yeah, well, indeed, that pencil pusher is there more than meets the eye to the pencil pusher, perhaps. But I think, yeah, I would tend to agree that he may even have had good intentions towards the imperial government. Certainly, he wants to make that argument, but just he entirely underestimates the situation that he faces immediately militarily in the East, politically with the remaining Severans, and in kind of social class structure, about just how acceptable somebody with his background will be wearing the purple.
1:00:39 Tristan Hughes? Well, what a legacy. And it's nice to see, as we mentioned at the beginning, how, well, at least the name Macrinus is coming back into the public eye with Gladiator 2. His story, I don't think he would have ever thought that his story would go from the likes of contemporary Roman senator Cassius Dio and the like, all the way down to the 21st century and Ridley Scott. But hey, here we are. And what a time period it's been. Guys, it is such pleasure to have you both in the same room, literally, for this podcast episode. I mean, huge flashback for me as well. They said it could never happen. It has, and it's been fantastic. And it's just for me to say thank you both for taking the time to come on the podcast.
1:01:17 Speaker 04 Thank you so much, Tristan. It's been a blast, as always.
1:01:21 Speaker 03 Thank you. It's been such fun.
1:01:26 Tristan Hughes? Well, there you go. There was Dr. Alex Imrie and Matilda Brown talking through the story, the rise and fall of the Roman Emperor Macrinus, the real history behind Denzil Washington's character in the new movie Gladiator 2. I hope you enjoy today's episode. Thank you for listening to Please follow The Ancients on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps us and you'll be doing us a big favour. You can also follow me on social media. I'm on both Instagram and TikTok. Just search Ancients Tristan. You will find me doing lots of different ancient history videos. And don't forget, you can also listen to The Ancients and all of History Hits podcasts ad-free and watch hundreds of TV documentaries when you subscribe at historyhit.com/subscribe.
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