Caratacus: King of the Britons

Before Boudicca, another British leader brought the Roman war machine to a grinding halt. Meet Caratacus; the cunning King of the Britons who spent seven years outmaneuvering the empire. Tristan Hughes is joined by Dr. Miles Russell to uncover the forgotten story of this charismatic guerrilla fighter. From leading fierce resistance in Wales to his betrayal, capture, and a life-saving speech in Rome, Caratacus was Britain’s ultimate escape artist. MORE Who Was The Real King Arthur? Listen on Apple https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/who-was-the-real-king-arthur/id1520403988?i=1000680692709 Listen on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/episode/4K5Ty3c7dA6LKrVvlYG3et The Roman Invasion of Britain Listen on Apple https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-roman-invasion-of-britain/id1520403988?i=1000683490050 Listen on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/episode/1lTa6DyKYntcPdkRrvwCnc Presented by Tristan Hughes. Edited by Natasha Hughes. The studio manager is Hanif Hussain, the producer is Robin McConnell, the video producer is McKenna Fernandez. The senior producer is Anne-Marie Luff. All music courtesy of Epidemic Sounds The Ancients is a History Hit podcast. History Hit is part of Little Dot Studios, a Certified B Corp™ The Ancients is now on YouTube! Watch HERE https://www.youtube.com/@TheAncientsPodcast Want even MORE Ancients? Sign up to History Hit for early access ad-free, plus exclusive subscriber-only episodes. PLUS with a History Hit subscription you can watch hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tristan Hughes?

  Ever wondered why the Romans were defeated in the Teutoburg Forest? What secrets lie buried in prehistoric Ireland? Or what made Alexander truly great? With a subscription to History Hit, you can explore our ancient past alongside the world's leading historians and archaeologists. You'll also unlock hundreds of hours of original documentaries with a brand new release every single week, covering everything from the ancient world to World War II. Just visit historyhit.com/subscribe. When we think of ancient Britain's resistance to Roman rule, one name towers above them all: Boudicca, Queen of the Iceni. But before Boudicca, there was another British leader who resisted for far longer:

• 0:44Tristan Hughes?

  Boudicca's neighbour and rival, Caratacus. When other British rulers surrendered to Roman rule, Caratacus fought on for seven long years. When pitched battle failed, he turned to guerrilla warfare. Time and again, he slipped through the iron grip of Rome, eluding capture and proving himself not only an accomplished military leader, but also quite the escape artist. He was a commander so cunning that he became public enemy number one. He was a king so charismatic that even the Romans respected his resilience. Today, I'm very pleased to have my good friend, Dr Miles Russell, on the show. Miles's new book is called Caratacus: Great King of Britain, and it tells the remarkable

• 1:29Tristan Hughes?

  story of this British resistance hero.

• 1:44Tristan Hughes?

  Miles, it is such a pleasure to have you back on the show. It's great to see you again, my friend.

• 1:48Speaker 01

  It's brilliant to be here. It's fantastic. Thank you for inviting me.

• 1:51Tristan Hughes?

  Last time we chatted, well, we normally chat, we're out in the open field, aren't we? I'm usually at one of your dig sites.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  In some kind of sun blasted field, yes. Yeah, it's quite nice to be here in the studio.

• 1:59Tristan Hughes?

  Overlooking Iron Age ramparts, a top maiden castle and the like. So, so welcome to the big city, first of all, the big smoke. And you have written this new book about one of my favourite figures also from ancient history. I know a big figure of yours, you too. Caratacus, like this other big British resistance hero, many people think Boudicca straight away, but he's the other major one at the beginning of the Roman occupation, the Roman invasions of Britain.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  He is, he is. I usually pronounce him as Caratacus, but.

• 2:29Tristan Hughes?

  I was going to get.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  Well, come on. But yeah, he is, he's, he's one of those figures. He is actually really significant. I mean, arguably, he's the whole cause of the Roman invasion of Britain. He fights the Romans for such a long period of time, but he's always overlooked. So, so Boudicca gets the, the, the big lighting, Boudicca gets the big story, Boudicca gets the big sort of Hollywood treatment, whereas Caratacus tends to get ignored and forgotten.

• 2:51Tristan Hughes?

  I deliberately started by saying Caratacus because I knew you were going to challenge me straight away. So come on, let's get into the nerdy naming. Caratacus or Caratacus?

• 3:01Speaker 01

  It's, it technically should be Caratacus. So we've got the, the Cara bit is this sort of effectively in, in Bretonnich or Welsh, like same derivation as Carriad, it's the beloved. So it should be, the stress should be on the Cara and then Tarkus rather than Caratacus. Or sometimes even you see it spelt Caratacus with an extra C. So ignore those, it should be Caratacus.

• 3:22Tristan Hughes?

  So it's like how the evolution of Baudacia has become Boudicca over the decades? It's a bit similar with Caratacus?

• 3:28Speaker 01

  It is, it is. I mean, we're, we're, level was the problem that when we're looking at these sort of histories, the name's been transcribed multiple times through the medieval era and people been copying it. And there's so many spelling variations. So as with Boudicca, Baudacia has been a sort of a name corruption, but we think it should be Boudicca and Caratacus. We're, I mean, there's lots of different variant forms of his name, but that seems to be the one that, that is probably the most correct.

• 3:52Tristan Hughes?

  So what does Caratacus mean? So beloved?

• 3:55Speaker 01

  It's just really the beloved. He, he is someone who, and it's interesting in his story, he sort of gets, he's got, seems to have this great charismatic personality. People love him, people support him and people genuinely mourn his loss. So it's one of those difficult things. So is this a birth name or is this, is this a name he's inherited? Like with, with Boudicca, it seems to be translated as victorious. So is that a name she was given at birth with the hope she would be? Or is that more a sort of a name that she is given after her initial conquest against the Romans? So I think with all these names, we've got to be careful. We don't know when they're actually introduced.

• 4:30Tristan Hughes?

  And why can we also call him King of the Britons?

• 4:33Speaker 01

  He is somebody, well, he's minting coins to start with. He's got his name slapped all over a whole series of coins before the Romans arrive. And he seems to be wielding a significant power within central southern Britain. He's displacing other monarchs and he's creating a territory of his own. So he certainly identified himself as a king, although the Romans don't give him that kind of honour.

• 4:55Tristan Hughes?

  But this is great. So you mentioned archaeology there. So often for many of these kind of big rebels of Rome, you have to rely predominantly on just the Roman sources and that history is written by the winners. But with Caratacus, we do actually have archaeology surviving too.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  We do. We've got a lot of archaeology. As I just mentioned, there's a lot of coins with his name on. And that's great when you get those because on the other side, there's a whole series of images and usually it's great with Iron Age coins because you can see what kind of element of power they're trying to project to their people. You know, what symbols and signs they're copying from the Roman world, which ones they're bringing themselves. But also Caratacus occupies that area whereby he's linked to a whole series of, of sites like Colchester, like Silchester in, in, in central southern Britain, Chedestor. And then again, with the whole series of battlefields in, in Wales. So geographically speaking, he's, he's relatively easy to place. But you're right, he's also mentioned a lot in the Roman sources.

• 5:57Speaker 01

  And it's one of those bizarre things because essentially, you know, we don't know when he was born, we don't know when he died. And in fact, the written sources only give us about a decade of his life between AD 41 and 51, but it's a big decade. It's a point in his life where he's fighting Rome, he's making a huge impact. And it's, that's, I think, what makes him a great leader, a great character and someone who resonates down through history. It's just that, that brief 10 year period of glory.

• 6:25Tristan Hughes?

  Well, are the Roman sources also helpful for, for, for understanding that decade alongside the archaeology, for giving us, quite frankly, a narrative of his resistance?

• 6:34Speaker 01

  They are. I mean, the sources are incomplete. That's the first thing we've got to be aware of. Tacitus, who's writing sort of beginning of the second century, he, he gives us the end part of Caratacus's career and Cassius Dio gives us the beginning. Trouble with Cassius Dio is he's writing a good 250 years later and he's garbled, he's confused, he doesn't really care about the, the version of history that he gives us. And when you compare him with, with more reliable sources, you do realise that he's sort of, he ups the body count, he increases the gore, he's, he's not wholly reliable as a historian. But he's what we have to rely on for the beginning of Caratacus's career against Rome, the invasion. And it's Tacitus who gives us the end.

• 7:15Speaker 01

  But it's, it's a short window opportunity, but it's very clear that the Roman sources much admired this character as a, as a resistance leader, as a sort of a great, noble, heroic barbarian who effectively was managed to resist against them for, for a long period of time.

• 7:31Tristan Hughes?

  Interesting. So it's quite a bit of detective work then to piece together those sources alongside the archaeology when reconstructed the story of his resistance. One last thing on the background I have to ask is you mentioned that, you know, you've got battle sites as well in Wales and usually battle sites are so invisible, you know, today, quite frankly, to find. But, but do we have them then for Caratacus in Wales?

• 7:53Speaker 01

  No.

• 7:54Tristan Hughes?

  Okay.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  But the, the trouble is, I mean, even something as dramatic as, as Boudicca's battle against the Romans in, in 60 AD, when we're told, you know, tens of thousands of Britons die, no one's successfully located that battlefield. Ancient battlefields are really problematic because the landscapes change, they're not often tied into a specific named place. Bodies are removed or scavenged, weapons are, are taken away and recycled. So it's very, very difficult to positively identify an ancient battle source. We've got great literary descriptions for the two of the major battles that Caratacus fights against the Romans, but trying to place them has been notoriously difficult. And people have tried for the last couple of hundred years. They haven't been located precisely, but we, you know, geographically speaking, we

• 8:38Speaker 01

  can be fairly sure where they, they occurred, but not the exact place on the ground sadly.

• 8:42Tristan Hughes?

  Okay, fair enough. So there's no Caratacus Teutoburg Forest equivalent in Wales?

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Sadly, no, no.

• 8:47Tristan Hughes?

  Okay. Well, now we've covered all of that, let's delve into the background of Caratacus, the man, the myth, the legend. So do we actually know quite a bit about his family?

• 9:01Speaker 01

  We know quite a bit, yeah, about, about his ancestry. His father, Cunabilinus, is minting coins essentially around St Albans in Hertfordshire and also around Colchester in Essex. These are the two centres of power that he claims sort of authority over. He's mentioned a few Roman sources. Swettonius describes him as a great king of the Britons. So it's clear that he is trading with the Roman world. He's perceived to be one of the major players in Britain. One of the difficulties that the Roman Empire has is Britain's on the fringes of the Roman Empire. They're trading with Britain, but they want it to remain relatively stable. They don't want people to get too big and too powerful and sort of tip things over.

• 9:44Speaker 01

  So Cunabilinus is Caratacus's father. We know that a chap called Tasciivanus is his grandfather and all three are minting coins. So that sort of element of lineage is fairly clear. Um. They are, we don't, don't know how they came to power. But it is, is very obvious that these are the mate. If you think of them more like a mafia family, they're controlling trade. They've probably got their own bodyguard. They're probably organising protection rackets. They're looking after their own. But they're always looking for ways to expand their empire. So they're quite unstable as a power base. But Rome is quite keen to have them on board and to, to give them sort of the, all the sort of the niceties of the Mediterranean world. Wine, olive oil, garum, all this stuff.

• 10:27Tristan Hughes?

  The fish sauce.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  The fish sauce, yeah, which is quite offensive really. But it's, and, and in return, the Britons are giving the Roman Empire slaves and metals. And grain to feed the army, which then is based down the Rhine, you know, the Roman army can't feed itself, so it needs an awful lot of food supplies. And Britain is providing some of that food material. So it works great for Rome to have these allies and these allied monarchs. In Britain, as long as they don't overstep the mark and create too much of an empire. And that's really what it seems to be Cunabilinus might be doing um in the, sort of the early decades of, of AD. Is that he's expanding his empire too much at the cost of his immediate neighbours. So he's somebody whom.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  I, I guess other kings, other leaders are leaving Britain and going to the Emperor Augustus to ask for help. Because they feel that their kingdom's in peril, because this guy is expanding too much, is taking control of too much. And they want Rome to put him back in his box.

• 11:25Tristan Hughes?

  So Caratacus is, he is very much kind of born into the purple, almost in regards to kind of a very powerful British chieftain. At that time, who might be, you know, almost kind of like Hannibal Barker's father, Hamilchai, you know, he's raising his own family's power.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 11:41Tristan Hughes?

  At a time, but that is starting to raise concerns across the channel, in the Roman Empire.

• 11:46Speaker 01

  And I think we've also got to bear in mind that these aren't isolationists, these aren't British monarchs who have never been to Rome. The, the evidence seems to be that a good deal of them have been to Rome. They're copying Roman images on their coins. We know that Augustus promotes this idea that the Britons are coming to him. They're making sacrifices on the capital, Rome's most holy place um in, in the eternal city. So these are people who are very familiar with what Rome represents, what it can offer them. They're not living in a barbarian utopia, completely isolated from the Roman world. They know what it's got to offer, but they also know the threat. So they're playing a very careful game. They don't want. The Roman army to just turn up like Julius Caesar had done in the, in the fifties, mid fifties BC.

• 12:27Speaker 01

  And start imposing regime change. They, they want to keep Rome happy too, but they are trying to get away. With as much as they can without antagonising the emperor.

• 12:37Tristan Hughes?

  Do you reckon that Caratacus, when he was a young lad and, you know, he, I said, he would, not living in a vacuum, he would have heard of the Roman. Empire, all those Roman goods coming in. Do you reckon he would have gone to Rome?

• 12:48Speaker 01

  I think it's quite likely, yes. Yeah, I mean, again, he, he, on a lot of his coins that we see, there's a very nice Roman eagle. Um, as I said, on his father's Cunabilinus's coins, there's a whole series of Romans, Roman Sphinx, there's Roman ships. So.

• 13:02Tristan Hughes?

  Sphinx as well.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  They are, yeah. So they're, they're very much, they're living with this repertoire of Roman images. I think it's highly likely that Caratacus has, had been to Rome, so he knew what he was up against. Uh, he knew um sort of the, you know, all the kind of organisational ability, all the kind of architectural grandeur that Rome had to offer. So he's not, he's not a complete idiot in the sense of standing up, not realising that, that Rome is a major superpower. He knows that. But he is trying to create his own little kingdom. And it's that, I think, that really um antagonises the Rome. To the point that it decides to put sandals on the ground and to send Roman troops to Britain.

• 13:40Tristan Hughes?

  Interesting. So you think actually Caratacus is a cause in all of that? I, I just kind of want to linger on that potential of him going to Rome before. He becomes a king in his own right, when his dad is still ruling, because of course, maybe you could. Look at similarities with someone like Arminius, you know, kind of the great Germanic leader of the Basutti, the Tudorberg Forest, how he learnt Latin. How he spent a considerable amount of time in his youth in Rome. I guess it's fun to kind of query to. To theorise as to whether Caratacus would have spoken Latin as well.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  I think he did. Um, there, there was a stage, we're too far ahead, but where he's, he, he's credited with this great speech in Latin. And people said, um, he must have been given that speech, or it must have been added to him. But I think, yes, he would have understood Latin very, very clearly. I mean, Augustus and the emperors that come after him are very clear about who they want to rule the barbarian lands beyond their empire. And they demand that kings and queens, those sort of rulers, send their firstborn to Rome, where they can be brought up. Uh, in the Roman tradition, they can learn Roman law, they can speak Latin, so that when they return home to take over their kingdoms, they're model citizens. So I think Caratacus is, is part of that world. And if he himself hadn't been to Rome, then certainly his, his brothers would have done.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  So that, that sort of family element, that they would really know what, what Rome had to offer.

• 14:58Tristan Hughes?

  So who are these brothers of Caratacus?

• 15:00Speaker 01

  We've got, we've got one, uh, Togidubnus or Togodumnus, it is variant forms of his spelling, uh, of his name. Um, who is also minting coins in the sort of central um eastern Britain. We've got the Idubni part of his name element on those coins. And we've got a chap called Aminus. Or as the Roman historian Swetonius describes him, Adminius. So there's lots, again, garbling of these. The Britons' names aren't written down. So the Romans, historians, when they're writing them, they garble them, they corrupt them. And so we often have five, a bit like Shakespeare writing his name fifty-six different ways. The Iron Age Britons, sometimes we have to assume that a different spelling is the same person.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  But it's a corruption of that name form. So we've got Togidumnus, we've got Aminus. These are two brothers of Caratacus. Aminus flees to the Emperor Caligula in AD forty. We're told that he's ousted from Britain by his father Cunabilinus.

• 15:58Tristan Hughes?

  Wow.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  We don't know what he's done, but Cunabilinus effectively kicks him out. He, he grabs a ship. He goes over to the continent. Unfortunately, he arrives in Rome at, at the time that Caligula's in charge. Not the most stable of emperors, not the, the most secure place to go. We don't know what happens to him afterwards. Caligula makes a big show of, of having this guy and having. Basically, making the claim that the whole of Britain has surrendered to him, which of course it hasn't. But he makes a parade uh in, in Rome. He claims to have conquered the ocean. So there is that sense that part of the family is going over um to the Roman cause. Uh, Togidumnus or Togodumnus, again, we're not quite sure how his name is pronounced.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  He's minting coins in the Roman tradition. He may have gone over to Rome as well. So there's at least three brothers. We know there are more because various times in Caratacus's career, we're told that brothers are captured. And we don't know whether those are brothers at arms in the sort of general sense, or whether it's just a huge family. I suspect it is a huge family.

• 16:59Tristan Hughes?

  And do you think they're, are they also minting coins? When their father is still alive, when Cunabilinus is still alive? No. So that's all happening afterwards. And that's kind of when there's a, seems to be a bit of a struggle between them, we think.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  It is, I think, really that the whole problem with Britain comes when Cunabilinus dies.

• 17:15Tristan Hughes?

  Let's cover this then, yeah, this big succession crisis, yes.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  So some time before AD forty-three, we're told that he's dead. And there is a succession crisis. Now, usually Rome chooses a successor. You have to go to Rome, you have to make the sacrifices. The emperor basically says, you are the nominated successor. And then you go back and then you can use the title Rex. Uh, so we see a lot of the, the Iron Age coins in Britain have that R E X on them. That's basically saying they have been acknowledged by Rome as the legitimate leader of a particular area. So they've got the support of Rome. They've probably also got Roman troops somewhere in their territory to protect them. But also to, basically, if you decide to rebel against Rome, those troops are there to execute you or to imprison you. So.

• 18:01Speaker 01

  They, you know, it's a, it's a double-edged sword, being friends with, with the Roman world. But. I think there is that sense that, that Rome hasn't quite yet decided who's going to succeed in Britain. We've got one brother, Aminius, who's in Rome with, with Caligula, may or may not be dead.

• 18:16Tristan Hughes?

  Yeah.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  But he's, he's gone over. We've got Togidumnus, we've got um Caratacus. They are in dispute. I think what we're really seeing is a civil conflict between these two brothers. Rome feels that Britain is being lost, or at least it's becoming unstable. And it needs to assert control and, and say, which of the two brothers is going to be the legal inheritor of Cunabilinus? That's really where I think the whole concern with Britain arrives. But of course, it also occurs at a time that Claudius, the Emperor Claudius, has just become emperor. He is an individual, if you, you know, you obviously see, well, read Robert Graves's or seen I Claudius, you know, get a sense that.

• 18:56Speaker 01

  This is somebody who's been kept away. He's a member of the Julio Claudian family, but he's not the most successful. He hasn't had a great political career. He's got some kind of physical or mental ailment which has kept him out of the public eye. When he becomes emperor, he's basically following the assassination of Caligula. He's the last member of the family. Around who could take over. So he becomes emperor quite late in life. He's got no kind of military glory. He's looking for somewhere to start a war, somewhere where he can proclaim as a great inheritor of Augustus. And Julius Caesar, part of that family group. And Britain, because it's unstable at that time, is the ideal opportunity.

• 19:37Speaker 01

  For Claudius to say, right, I will go and resolve that. I will take all the credit for that. I will bring part of, you know, distant Britain into the Roman world. Because the thing is, Julius Caesar's been there twice in fifty-five, fifty-four, four BC, hasn't conquered Britain. But Julius Caesar's been turned into a god. If Claudius can go to Britain and bring it into the empire, that's better than Caesar. That makes him better than a god. So it's looking as the ideal opportunity to bolster his career. Is to insert himself and his army into southern Britain.

• 20:08Tristan Hughes?

  Okay, no pressure there. And then that will lead us into the Roman invasion of Britain, which we will cover next.

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• 21:25Tristan Hughes?

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• 21:55Tristan Hughes?

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• 22:14Tristan Hughes?

  Mars, there were so many things that I loved in that answer you gave there. First off, as so often in history, when a big titanic figure dies, who's been growing their domain, and it's unclear on the succession, or there are rivals struggling for power, you see with Alexander the Great, for instance, that's the big one, but there are so many others, that you do then get this civil war, this civil strife. So I like that theory that it was potentially this fracturing of power that the Romans take advantage of. They see, right, now is our time because our interests in southern Britain are threatened by this kind of war between Caratacus and Togadumnus.

• 22:55Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly. I think any, you look right through the medieval period and certainly the Anglo-Saxon England, it's the death of a monarch, that succession crisis. You need to make it really clear who is succeeding you. And in Iron Age Britain, that's complicated by the fact you've got to ask Rome's permission first. So I think in the absence of any kind of permission or acknowledgement by Rome, this uncertainty develops and you've then got a civil war brewing. And we know of at least three monarchs who fled to Rome and asked for help. There's a feeling that the whole of southern Britain is becoming unstable.

• 23:25Tristan Hughes?

  Right, so it's seeping through into the other tribal areas like the Attribates and the Cantiaci, so other places that very much know the Roman Empire and have interests with Rome. Rome has interests with them as well.

• 23:36Speaker 01

  There is, and we're told just before the invasion that one of the main reasons for it is an individual called Verica has gone over to Rome and to ask Claudius specifically for help. They've been kicked out as part of an uprising. And I think, looking at the spread of coins, Verica's territory seems to be really sort of West Sussex, Hampshire and up into Berkshire. That's exactly the same area that Caratacus's coins are appearing. So there's a feeling that perhaps Caratacus is developing his power base, is unsettling other monarchs, and Verica certainly has gone to Rome and said to Claudius, can you help? I'd like to be restored to power.

• 24:14Tristan Hughes?

  So as you can get the coinage evidence, that's really interesting to see how Caratacus's power is expanding south of the Thames into, as you say, the home counties today.

• 24:21Speaker 01

  And that's worrying for Rome because Verica had controlled Chittester Harbour, Portsmouth Harbour, some of the major ports of entry into Britain. So if Caratacus is controlling that, even if he's pro-Roman at that stage, Claudius doesn't know anything about him, and you can't allow a barbarian leader to oust an ally. Verica's an ally, Rome needs allies, and therefore Caratacus needs to be taught a lesson. So I think that's one of the major reasons why Claudius decides now is the time, we can reinstate our allies, we can put Caratacus back in his box, we can either imprison him or just make sure he's no longer in power. But we need to make sure that southern Britain is secure.

• 24:59Tristan Hughes?

  Right. So the Roman forces gather, ready to face the armies, the warriors of Caratacus and Togadumnus, as we'll get to, in this theory at least. So what happens?

• 25:12Speaker 01

  The main problem, and we get this with any history of Roman Britain, is where do the Romans land?

• 25:18Tristan Hughes?

  I love this. This is great.

• 25:19Speaker 01

  I've seen Romanists come to blows, physically very angry about, some argue that it's Kent, some that it's Sussex, some that it's Portsmouth Harbour. Ultimately, we don't know. Cassius Dio, who's our only source for this period, is vague. He just says, there is a force is sent to Britain, it comes across in three waves. We don't know whether that's three successive waves landing in the same place, or three separate landing places. My feeling has always been that if it's Verica, and Verica is asking to be reinstated to their kingdom, that's really Chittester, that's West Sussex, that's Hampshire. It's fairly pointless to land in Kent. Julius Caesar landed in Kent twice in 55 and 54 BC, and

• 26:02Speaker 01

  came a cropper twice. So Rome, Claudius has got no real friends in Kent. But if he's sending an expedition, almost like a peacekeeping, a UN peacekeeping force to Britain, to reinstate Verica, to find out what's going on. So it's not really, I don't think the first stages of AD 43 are full-blown, full-scale invasion, because Claudius is quite careful and quite thoughtful about these sort of things. He's sending a small force over to find out what's happening, to reinstate Verica and to restore order. And that would be a minimum loss of life. If you were sending in sort of four legions, about 5,500 men per legion, plus auxiliaries, you're looking at 30,000 to 40,000 troops in an invasion force, they need to

• 26:44Speaker 01

  be fed, they need to be kept safe. That could be catastrophic. But if you send 5,000, one legion or part of a legion, they can arrive, they can sort things out, they can stabilise the area. We know that Claudius keeps his major force back. We're told later on in AD 43, a second wave comes over and Claudius arrives with elephants, he makes a big prestigious arrival in southern Britain. I think that's the invasion force, that's the major attack on Britain. But the first stage, sent over in AD 43 with Aulis Plautius, who's a Roman senator, commanding it, that's the equivalent of a UN peacekeeping force to try and establish order, to get some kind of useful information, reinstate Verica. It could be at that stage

• 27:27Speaker 01

  job done. Claudius could go back and claim a victory without actually leaving a garrison in Britain.

• 27:32Tristan Hughes?

  Right. I've got to challenge you there. I know, but I want to believe the West Sussex theory because I grew up near Chittester. But I mean, I'm sure people will be shouting, well, what about Richborough? What about the fact that they then build a monumental arch there later, almost as a gateway?

• 27:48Speaker 01

  Richborough in Kent is very early Roman fortification, absolutely, and it does fit within the mid 40s AD. I think what we're looking at there is where Claudius lands. So the second wave with all the reinforcements, with the elephants, he's going for the shortest crossing from northern France to Britain. So that's where he is landing once southern Britain's been secured. So I've got no doubt that that is part of the invasion plan, but that's not where Aulis Plautius and his troops land in the first stage. We are told, essentially, they're going to protect Verica. Verica's Silchester, you don't land in Kent if you're going to be going over to Hampshire, Berkshire area. And one of the first stages

• 28:30Speaker 01

  of the campaign, we're told that the Badunni or the Debonni, a tribe in Gloucestershire, surrender to the Romans. Why is a tribe in Gloucestershire surrendering to the Romans if they land in Kent? If they land in Sussex and they're marching north, they're on those fringes. So I think from the limited literature, I mean, we're never going to know for sure, unless in Pompeii or Herculaneum, some amazing scroll turns up, which tells us word for word what happened in AD 43, we're never going to know for sure. But my feeling is there are two stages to the invasion. The second stage, the big one with Claudius and his retinue, that lands in Richborough in Kent, but the earlier stage is closer towards Chittester.

• 29:08Tristan Hughes?

  Yeah, Mars, that's all good. I've got to challenge you because that means you can explain your arguments as you've just done. So we're, you know, everyone's a winner.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  I mean, as I say, we're never going to know for sure, but that's, I think, makes sense of the limited sources that we've got.

• 29:21Tristan Hughes?

  So let's say that this advance force lands in West Sussex, maybe somewhere near Chittester. Caratacus, he's not just sleeping as this goes along. How does he resist this Roman invasion?

• 29:34Speaker 01

  It's really annoying because the text that we get from Cassius Dio is garbled. He says, the Britons don't come to hand. So the Romans arrive and there's no formal opposition. Perhaps Caratacus overplayed his hand, perhaps he felt that Rome would never invade, but there's no kind of organised opposition to the Britons, to the Romans as they land. And it might be that they're effectively, they're landing in relatively friendly territory, what's formerly Verica's lands. So they're not receiving a sort of a major military force trying to kick them out. So they've got a foothold. That's Caratacus's big mistake, if he wants to hold on to power, is he allows the Romans to land. Aulis Plautius,

• 30:17Speaker 01

  who's commanding the Roman forces, we're told that he effectively negotiates, he discusses with Caratacus and his brother Togadumnus.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  This perhaps to try and resolve this argument between them. It's quite clear that what we see later, that Togadumnus is the favoured candidate from the Roman side. So it might be that he's the older brother.

• 30:40Tristan Hughes?

  Right, I was gonna ask that.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  He's the legitimate heir and Caratacus is the upstart, is the younger brother who's trying to create his own kingdom. But from what we can see later, Togadumnus seems to be the one that Claudius favours. So the initial stages of AD forty-three seem to be a conflict resolution. And it seems to be largely resolved, but then things start unravelling. Caratacus starts kicking up a problem, is perhaps refuses this, this decision and makes trouble. And the Romans then have to go and march and find him out and to basically attack him, imprison him to get him out of the picture because he's, he's refusing to, to, to go back quietly into sort of civilian life.

• 31:21Tristan Hughes?

  And is this when we get these, these early river battles?

• 31:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, this is another problem. Cassius Dio says there are two river battles. Now, some have suggested that if he lands in Kent, which of course we're disputing, then the first major river they come to is the river Medway.

• 31:39Tristan Hughes?

  The Medway.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  If you go to the Medway now, near, near Rochester, there is a nice little stone monument that says here, the Romans crossed and there was a battle in Caratacus. There's no evidence for that at all. It just happens to be a big river that's between Richborough and, and the Thames. The second battle Cassius Dio actually mentions has the Thames. He doesn't say where on the Thames it is, but both battles that he mentions are played out exactly the same way. The actual nature of the conflict is, so I mean, it's heavily possible we're seeing the same battle tactics at both rivers, or what Cassius Dio is doing, he's got evidence for, for the same battle from two different accounts, and he thinks it's two separate events. He's done that before. A lot of the times when you look at his, his tech, he's

• 32:24Speaker 01

  confused by an original source and he just goes, yeah, that will do. And he sort of, he, he puts two separate events. But I think there's definitely one river battle. And I don't think the river Medway actually exists as a conflict. I think what Cassius Dio has done is he's taken these two different accounts of the same event and made them two separate conflicts. But the Battle of the Thames is, is the key one because, and what, what always annoys me when you see, it shouldn't do, but it does. Whenever you see films set in the ancient Roman past, is you see the Celts, the Britons, the Gauls, everyone's got a sword, everyone's got chainmail, everyone's got a helmet. They haven't. Britons would be very poorly armoured. Only the warriors or the monarchs would have swords. Very few

• 33:09Speaker 01

  would have any kind of armour. Most would have sticks or sling stones.

• 33:13Tristan Hughes?

  The sling is like the big weapon, the sling and the spear, they're the big weapons of our age, Britain.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  They, they really are. But conflict resolution in our age, Britain seems to be between champions. It's small scale skirmishing. It's more, it's a more civilised way, I guess, of sorting your problems out. The Romans don't do that. They send armies in, a legion is five and a half thousand heavily armed psychopaths. They're, they're massively armoured, they're trained to kill, they serve for 25 years. There's no way a British army can fight against that. Even just one legion, Caratacus knows that in an open battle, they're going to get completely annihilated. So what he does, the, the two major battles that we get from one on the Thames and one in Wales, is he tries to put a natural obstacle in front of himself and the Romans. So he's on the north bank of the Thames, the Romans got

• 33:59Speaker 01

  to cross to get to him. There's, you know, if they go across the river, many of them would drown. Many of them won't be able to use their weapons effectively. They'll be trying to crawl out the other side, being slaughtered, having slings, a stone, stone at them as they're crossing.

• 34:12Tristan Hughes?

  And we have to remember that the Thames was wider, it was more wild back then as well. That is a really difficult obstacle to cross.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  It is. It's been nicely sort of cannalised and, and controlled in the last 200 years. Then, as you say, there's, there's mud flats, there's marshes, it's really difficult. The Britons now to get across, the Romans don't. So we can imagine Alasplortius is on the south side, Caratacus is, is on the north. He's got a real problem of how do I get across this river without losing my initiative, without losing my army. Now Cassius Dio says, and this is, this is the problem in his text, he says, the Romans decide to send Keltoi across Celts. Now, a lot of recent historians have really suggested that what he's saying is he's sending Roman auxiliaries. Roman soldiers who've been recruited from another part, a Celtic part of Europe, they're trained to cross rivers. But he doesn't say auxiliaries,

• 35:00Speaker 01

  he doesn't say Romans. He's using the term Celts, I think, because these are friendly natives. They know the river crossings, they know how to get across the Thames, and they're on the Roman side. And later in the battle, he says that Togadumnus, his army, basically of army of Celts crossing the river, they are, they start, they are ambushed, they are being torn apart. And I think what we're really seeing is that Togadumnus, the brother of Caratacus, is on the Roman side.

• 35:31Tristan Hughes?

  Ah, okay.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  He's been supported by Rome. He knows how to cross the river, where to cross the river. His soldiers get across. It's basically brother against brother. I mean, the Romans love that kind of, ever since Romulus and Remus, they've got lots and lots of stories of brother fighting brother. So it, it's a, it's a fraternal, it's a brotherly conflict that we're seeing. But it's, it's Togadumnus who helps the Romans crossing the river. He and Caratacus are fighting. This conflict management is really getting out of control. The Romans now find, rather than sorting the situation out, the whole of southern Britain is in uproar, tribe against tribe. And Alasplortius doesn't have the manpower, doesn't have the resources to deal with this. He sends a message to Claudius, please send reinforcements.

• 36:13Speaker 01

  Claudius is in Gaul at that time. He then arrives with more legions, the Praetorian Guard to protect him, elephants, because he does everything in style. And that's when it becomes a full scale invasion, because they realise they've got a stamp on Caratacus massively. He can't be dealt with by this small first stage investor of, of the invasion.

• 36:32Tristan Hughes?

  But that's interesting, mentioning Togadumnus on the, on the Roman side. But that very much aligns with your argument you've, you've mentioned earlier, because the traditional view, isn't it, that Caratacus and Togadumnus, almost kind of their forces are together at the Thames and they're resisting the Romans. But as you've already mentioned, this kind of, this strife between them, this conflict for power, actually, you look at Togadumnus, Togadumnus, and actually, is it, is it his forces that the Romans are using to get across the Thames? Is it his local knowledge?

• 37:02Speaker 01

  I think it is. I think what Cassius Dio is saying, whenever you use the term Celts, he's talking about friendly Britons. When it's barbarians, it's the angry, violent enemy Britons. So it's Caratacus and the barbarians, it's Togadumnus and the Celts. And I think it, it's that kind of conflict that we are really seeing. And that, that's what Alasplortius can't resolve. And Claudius then decides, right, we're going to have to just go in there with mass troops and just deal with this as, as, as hugely as we can. We're going to have to involve ourselves in regime change.

• 37:33Tristan Hughes?

  And do they?

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Yes. Yeah. I mean, I think we, we know that late in AD forty-three, Claudius arrives. The, the traditional view that we get is that all the fighting's been done by this stage, and it's just a case of putting his stamp on the conquest.

• 37:48Tristan Hughes?

  Yes, he arrives in London, only spends 13 days in Britain to go up to Colchester and then back down and he's gone.

• 37:53Speaker 01

  He's just there to receive the surrender of, of the Brits. But I think the, the description that we get is that he arrives with massive reinforcements. And I think that, that is the real sense, that the emperor is coming to the rescue. He's like this of the, the Union Cavalry in a western, you know, they, they arrive at the end to save the day. And I think this is what he's doing. And of course, he, he gets to be adulation for that. But we do hear that there was a battle outside of Colchester that he is involved in. And I think it, it's Colchester, the, the major capital of Cunabilinus, obviously by now dead, but that is perceived by the Romans to be the centre of resistance. That is the site that needs to be captured. So it's the Trinavanti's tribe around Colchester, they're

• 38:36Speaker 01

  identified as the enemy, they're the ones that are stamped on, they're the ones that are subjected. Whereas the Cativaloni, just to the, the west of those around St Albans, they're treated as friends and as allies. So it could be we are seeing the, the Togadumnus, Caratacus division between those two tribal groups.

• 38:52Tristan Hughes?

  Interesting. And Caratacus, do we think he's fighting outside of Colchester? He's trying to lead the resistance to stop the Romans?

• 38:57Speaker 01

  I'd like to think, sadly, there's no evidence. Cassius Dio doesn't tell us what happens after the, the Thames crossing. I think if he's got any sense, Caratacus would flee westwards. Because Colchester, Camulodunum, is not a defendable position. It, it's got lots of bloody earthworks and ramparts around it. It's great if you're fighting an enemy who's coming towards you with chariots and, and poorly armed Celtic warriors. If you've got four legions marching towards Colchester, there's no way you can defend that. So he would think, I've got to get out of here. I'm going to try and fight the Romans on my kind of terms, rather than, if, if you're defending Colchester, you're dead, basically.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  There's no way you can stop that. So I think Colchester is abandoned. Claudius goes in, he receives the surrender, we're told, of at least 11 British monarchs, and the conquest of the south is secure. And I think the, the issue there is that all the tribal groups around Caratacus's territory thinks, well, the Romans are sorting him out, let's be friends with them. You know, he's our enemy, let's be friends with his enemy, and we surrender to Rome. That's a good thing. Because Caratacus is out of the picture, Rome's bringing peace and stability. That's a good thing.

• 40:09Tristan Hughes?

  But, but the story is not over, as we'll get to next.

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• 41:35Tristan Hughes?

  Mars, here's a surprisingly controversial question. Toggy Dumbness.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:40Tristan Hughes?

  Is he still alive at this point?

• 41:42Speaker 01

  I think so he is. I mean, Cassius Dio is a very, very garbled paragraph where he basically says that Togo Dumbness is destroyed, but the tribes of the area stand together with him, by his side, against the barbarians. Now, people felt that's really, if Toggy Dumbness is fighting the Romans, then to say that he's destroyed must mean he died in the battle. But Cassius Dio doesn't say that. It's a really complicated paragraph, but he says that the Britons stand together by his side against the barbarians. So I think what we're seeing is Togo Dumbness's army having crossed the river, they're ambushed, they are partially

• 42:25Speaker 01

  destroyed, but other groups are standing. Togo Dumbness is the Roman ally, Caratacus is the enemy. Cassius Dio is missing that that critical point, and he doesn't know how to describe the battle. He describes it very, very badly in a very garbled way. He doesn't really care. I don't think his audience cares that much either. But it's annoying that Tacitus, who's the more primary source, his version of the invasion is lost to us. If anyone ever finds that, that will resolve the whole situation and we'll know exactly what happens. But I think Togo Dumbness doesn't die in that battle. But what's interesting is just as he disappears from that account, a chap called Toggy Dubnus appears in West Sussex, and he's credited as being great king of the Britons. Their name forms are

• 43:09Speaker 01

  so similar, and the fact that one disappears as the other appears, they're, I think they're the same person.

• 43:15Tristan Hughes?

  I mean, I've got confused with the names already. I think I said Dubnus rather than Dumbness. So, so I think that kind of aligns with the thing, yet they're very similar names.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  They are.

• 43:23Tristan Hughes?

  Could be the same person, and that's the reward he gets.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. And Tacitus later is very, very sneering about Toggy Dubnus because he says he's an agent, basically he enslaves his own people. Because I think Tacitus likes the great honourable barbarian who goes down fighting. He doesn't like the ones who like a quizzling, one who surrenders wholeheartedly to Rome. And Toggy Dubnus, as Togo Dumbness, I think they are somebody who's on the Roman side. They're rewarded after the invasion because they've so greatly helped the Emperor Claudius. So one brother is on the Roman side, the other brother is stubbornly fighting this war of resistance against Rome because they feel they've got nothing less to lose. If they surrender to Rome, they're going to die. So Caratacus feels all I've got to do is just keep fighting.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  And as I move westwards, I'll stir up all the tribes in the west, tell them about the issue that Rome faces and how we've all got to stand together and fight.

• 44:17Tristan Hughes?

  Should we briefly mention Toggy Dumbness? The reward he seems to get is the largest residential palace north of the Alps, is Fishbourne Palace.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  Exactly. I mean, we don't know for sure that he lived there, but I think the fact that Fishbourne Palace is next to Chiswick, where big inscription is set up to the great king of the Britons, it would be very unlikely if he wasn't connected in some way with Fishbourne. And Fishbourne's not the only, there's at least seven other palace sites in West Sussex of the same date. So I get the kind of feeling that Toggy Dubnus and all of his sort of family are being rewarded by this huge gift, financial gift. They're living in palaces, they are given sort of a, well, basically, they've given Claudius power, they've given him legitimacy, they've given him the victory that he craved, and there's no reward big enough for him to give to them. So I think it's very likely that Fishbourne is a reward

• 45:08Speaker 01

  to this, this great Britain who has served Rome so well.

• 45:11Tristan Hughes?

  Fair enough. Well, that's one king of the Britons, but of course, there's the other brother, there's Caratacus, also king of the Britons, and he continues fighting. As you say, he goes westwards. And we've already mentioned how kind of that, that southern and eastern part of Britain is more connected to the Roman world. But the further west you go, is that more the kind of the Wild West, the more distant part of the country that the Romans know less about?

• 45:41Speaker 01

  It is. The Romans know far less. I mean, Julius Caesar obviously was just involved in Kent and around the Thames. Rome, the Mediterranean world has been trading with Britain for some significant time. They're aware of the metal resources, the tin and the lead and the West Country, but they've got no, there's been no real official contact between Rome and that area. There's been no sort of trade materials coming in. So the further west you go, the less likely that the monarch's there, the leaders are minting coins, the less likely they're aware of what Rome has to offer them. So Caratacus in moving west is moving into a less obviously Roman or sort of, it's a territory beyond the orbit of the Roman Empire. So his problem is going to be moving in that direction, trying

• 46:25Speaker 01

  to persuade them that Rome is a threat and that Rome is coming for them. I mean, effectively, Rome is coming for him. Wherever he goes, he's like the Osama bin Laden of the, of the, of the, of that period. Wherever he goes, the Romans will follow. They will feel the war's not over unless they capture this particular person and either killed him or brought him to trial. So he is trying to persuade the various tribes of the west that they need to fight Rome, but without telling them that the only reason Rome's coming in that direction is because of him.

• 46:56Tristan Hughes?

  So he's public enemy number one. And how long is it before the Romans do decide, we've got to get this guy, we've got to keep chasing him, we've got to expand?

• 47:03Speaker 01

  I think, yeah, I mean, it's annoying, but the Cassius Dio's account of the invasion sort of comes to an end. Tacitus has begun, there's a, there's a gap between the two of them. But it's very clear that something is going on in the West Country, that Caratacus has arrived in south east Wales, there's a tribe, the Silures, and he's encouraging them to attack Roman territory, particularly the Debbunny of Gloucestershire, Silures, that area.

• 47:29Tristan Hughes?

  Who had, you know, kind of given up to Rome very quickly.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  Who've surrendered to Rome, gone wholeheartedly over to the Roman cause, probably because they didn't like Caratacus and they wanted Roman security. But somehow he's persuaded the Silures to attack the Romans, to antagonise them. He's trying to draw them into South Wales. This is a very mountainous territory. It's less open, it's less good for a Roman army to build forts and to control. So he, I think he's trying to bring them into a place where he can wear them down, this kind of asymmetric warfare, guerrilla warfare. He can, he can attack Roman troops when they're on the march, when they're isolated, when they're trying to forage. That's his ultimate strategy, is to wear them down. And probably like with Julius Caesar, this idea of convincing Rome it's not worth holding on to Britain,

• 48:15Speaker 01

  we have to leave. And that, I think, is his ultimate game, is to destroy as many Roman troops, to make the war seem unsustainable, expensive, and to persuade Claudius or one of his later successors to leave.

• 48:28Tristan Hughes?

  And how successful is this type of warfare for Caratacus? Because you mentioned, you've got, let's say if there's one legion, you've got over 5,000 Roman psychopaths in heavy armour, but I say going into the more montane, the inland area of Wales to try and hunt this guy. How successful is Caratacus in those environments?

• 48:49Speaker 01

  I think it's very successful. Tacitus sort of says rather begrudgingly of the, of the many successes of Caratacus, without going into too much detail. But I think in southern Britain, you've got a relatively lowland landscape, you've got big Iron Age centres of occupation. Rome can attack those, it can negotiate with, with kings or queens or, or big leaders. In Wales, the situation is far more fragmented. You have got tribal, identifiable groups, but there aren't big centres of power. Settlements are quite scattered. Rome's got nowhere to attack, and it can find itself sort of cut off in sort of valleys in the various different sort of Highland zones. So it's the kind of territory that Rome's not happy being in. So from Caratacus's point of view, as that sort of expert strategist,

• 49:34Speaker 01

  is the perfect place to set up camp. What we don't know, of course, is how he persuades the Silures to accept him as their leader, because he's from south east England, you know, he's from that sort of general area. We're moving a whole series of tribal groups, we're presuming they've got the same kind of customs and language and so on. But he's arrives at their door and says basically, take me on as your battle leader. The Romans are coming and you don't want to mess with these guys, but I fought them, I know how to deal with them. And it's that kind of, he must have been an extremely charismatic individual to persuade people that he's right, because he's effectively saying, you need to burn your crops, you need to burn your settlements, you need to hide, and we'll attack them on the march. This isn't a very heroic way of doing things. So you're trying to persuade

• 50:17Speaker 01

  people, A, there's an enemy coming, we can't fight, but B, I want you to destroy everything and to go on the run with me. So how he does that, we don't know. But he does, and it's a very effective from that point of view, because Rome cannot deal very well with that kind of guerrilla warfare.

• 50:34Tristan Hughes?

  So hit and run ambushes, I guess also attacking Roman supply trains, if, as mentioned earlier. Um. The Romans also really want that mining. They want materials like lead and silver that they get from Wales and would have already known that those materials were there. So they're trying to kind of. I guess you can imagine some Romans, they're trying to cozy up to certain leaders in Wales who have access to those resources. But then Caratacus will likely know that as well. So his band of warriors will be attacking any Roman attempts to try and get lead and silver out of Wales at the same time. So it's being a real nuisance.

• 51:06Speaker 01

  Absolutely, exactly. And I think the, you know, problem for Claudius, the emperor, is that he didn't have to invade. I think the first stage was was trying to establish peace in in Britain. Having invaded, he now has to establish a garrison. And he needs Britain to be financially viable. So therefore, yes, you do need the gold of Wales, you do need the lead of the mendips, you do need the tin of cornwall. As a as a resource for the empire and Caratacus is now in the way. So you need to persuade the people of Rome that the war in Britain is over. You can only do that by bringing Caratacus in chains or by proving he is dead. But you also need to get rid of him so you can access that those those metal resources. So Claudius is now in a very difficult position. He's got no choice.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  But to pursue the war and to send his soldiers into an environment where they don't play very well.

• 51:55Tristan Hughes?

  And this is, this goes on for several years, doesn't it? I mean, do the Romans decide they have to adapt their strategy to try and counter these, well, this guerrilla warfare by Caratacus?

• 52:06Speaker 01

  They do. I mean, one of the, they, they, they decide they need overwhelming force. So one of the things that they do is the twentieth legion at that stage is still over in Essex at Colchester, over the Trinavantes. They bring them forward, they demolish that base, they turn it into a Roman town. Of course, that becomes the focus of hatred for the Trinavantes and the Cani later. Boudicca attacks Colchester. The twentieth legion is brought over to Wales. They're trying to encircle Caratacus in sort of the, sort of that area of southeastern Wales. He decides he doesn't want to be encircled, he needs to break out. We're told that he moves the campaign to North Wales, to the Order Vicis, which are up in sort of Snowdonia, Anglesey, that sort of area.

• 52:50Speaker 01

  And he then persuades them to come together. So he's opening up a second front. Later on, after that, he goes to the Brigantes in Yorkshire and tries to open another third front. So I think it's all this, he doesn't want to be surrounded. But he's trying to encourage all the Britons of the western part of the island to fight the Romans. You've got to bear in mind, there's no such sense at this time of national identity. Every tribe's got its own leaders, its own religion, its own cultural footprint. So trying to bring them together as a single force is difficult, if not impossible. But Caratacus has to do that if he's going to kick the Romans out of the island.

• 53:25Tristan Hughes?

  And how successful is he?

• 53:27Speaker 01

  Initially, very successful because the Romans now have to divert, they're marching into southeast Wales. They now have to turn around and go up into Snowdonia, which is far more mountains, terrain, far more difficult. It's at that point that Caratacus makes the decision to fight another battle.

• 53:44Tristan Hughes?

  Oh, interesting. Okay. He's got overly confident, should we say?

• 53:47Speaker 01

  Possibly. I think also he needs to show the tribes that he can win. At that stage, all he's basically doing is persuading them to burn their crops, persuade them to hide. And he's inflicting losses on the Brit, on the Romans, but it's small scale, it's lots of these sort of ambushes. They, the kind of heroic ideal in Iron Age, later Iron Age literature is this idea of warriors and fighting. Now, he knows he can't fight the Romans on their terms, but he needs to choose a battlefield site where he can draw them in. Where they, again, that has a series of natural obstacles, where he can then wear their forces down.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  And that will bring all the tribes of the north part of Wales together to see, yes, he is a good leader, yes, he can fight the Romans. So it's a big gamble. I think in an ideal world, he wouldn't want to fight that battle, but he's left with no choice. He has to prove that he is a great military leader.

• 54:41Tristan Hughes?

  It is a pretty epic battle though, isn't it? Tell us about this. Gosh, it's not a final stand, but it's, it's, it's, it's the climax. It's the great clash.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  It is. And what's always intrigued me is that Tacitus describes this battle. It's one of the few battles he describes where he doesn't mention the body count. Usually at the end of it, like Battle Against Boudicca, he tells you, tens of thousands of Britons are dead, only sort of 260 Romans. He doesn't do this here. And I think it's because Caratacus managed to pull his army out when the battle goes the Romans' way. So we're told, we're not told precisely where it is, but the geographical description is that the Romans arrive, there's a river in front of them. Again, they've got to try and cross it. All the slingshots raining down from the Britons against them. Having crossed that river, they then got to go up slope towards Caratacus and his army.

• 55:30Speaker 01

  And the Britons have built a series of walls, which I think forced the Romans into a narrower, a narrower point, much like in the Teutoburg Forest. The, the, the Germans there build a series of, of walls and fences to push the Romans into an area where they can be effectively ambushed and destroyed. That's what Caratacus is doing at this battlefield site. But he's positioned his forces in a way that they can retreat. If the Romans gain control of the hill, the Britons can melt away as quickly as possible because he doesn't want this to become a massacre. So the Romans initially, under Austrius Scapula, he's the, the new governor of Britain at that time, they cross the river with difficulty, large numbers of Romans go down in the river drowning, but also with slingshots.

• 56:13Speaker 01

  Having crossed that, we're told, they form a judesto, they, they, sorry, testudo, the, the shields, like a tortoise, you know, they, they're protected by their shields. So the Britons, slingshots are bouncing off the shields, the Romans slowly climb the hill, they start to tear down the walls. And at that point, having inflicted losses against them, Caratacus realizes the game is up. And he orders his soldiers to abandon the battlefield site. That's very difficult thing to do. Because you're dealing with lots of different tribal groups, but, but like sort of Caladan or this sort of later battles in Highland Scotland, lots of different clans. Each with their own identities, each with their own idea of what heroism is.

• 56:53Speaker 01

  Each perhaps with their own sense of wanting to fight the Romans and being told, no, let's run away. That's not a very heroic ideal. So I think probably a larger number of Britons die there than he, he had wanted. And we're told that his wife and his daughter, sadly unnamed by Tacitus. We don't get any names for them, but they're captured by the Romans. So I think the Romans advance far more quickly than he was hoping. He gets away. A bit unchivalrous, you know, he may, he gets away, but his wife and daughter are captured. But he lives to fight another day. So the Romans have won, but it's a bit of a pyrrhic victory in that they've had significant losses. And they haven't quite established the single climactic bloody victory that they'd hoped for.

• 57:37Tristan Hughes?

  Gosh, kind of sounds a bit similar, like Ominous and the Snelda though as well, doesn't it?

• 57:41Speaker 01

  Yes, yeah, it really does. And I think, you know, the thing is that we, we talk about Caratacus losing the battle. I mean, technically, yes, he does, but the Roman conquest of Wales still takes another 25 years. So I don't, this is not a, a conflict that is resolved in one day.

• 57:55Tristan Hughes?

  No.

• 57:55Speaker 01

  And I think it, it is a loss, but it's a strategic loss. And at that point, Caratacus, we're told, moves to Yorkshire, to the Brigantes. Ostensibly to open up a third front. And it's then he's trying to bring a war to the whole of Britain. So that the Romans find this is completely unsustainable.

• 58:11Tristan Hughes?

  And the Roman conquest of Wales, I mean, Caratacus is very much kind of chapter one in it. It will very much go on, as you say, for a few decades more.

• 58:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 58:19Tristan Hughes?

  And there's more guerrilla fighting as different troops. And then the Romans have to adapt. And I think that's when they bring in like Eastern Europeans, like Thracians and Dacians and the like, who are more used to the guerrilla fighting.

• 58:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 58:29Tristan Hughes?

  But that's another story in its own right. Caratacus is just the starter.

• 58:32Speaker 01

  I think, yeah, he starts, I think he convinces them how to fight and they do it extremely well. And you're right, it's another 25 years before Wales is fully subjugated. So it's Caratacus that begins that, that conflict. But it's certainly not ended by his defeat in North Wales.

• 58:48Tristan Hughes?

  I wish I had more time, but we, but, but there was, of course, there's the Braveheart style speech that he gives, isn't there, before the battle, which is kind of linked to all the like Boudicca has one, Calgarcus has one, they, the Romans like kind of giving a big kind of speech to the freedom fighter leader who is opposing the Romans and Caratacus is the same.

• 59:06Speaker 01

  He, he does get one, yes, but and sense of with Tacitus, I think, yeah, he's never, I mean, it's very unlikely the Romans were there to document exactly what their, their enemy was, was saying. But most Roman historians give the opponent the opportunity to, to sort of muse on liberty and freedom. So, yeah, you're right. It's that sort of kind of brave heart. Sort of shouting for freedom, you know, we need to win this, this battle to, to have victory with the Romans. And so Caratacus gets that, that sort of bit of a speech. But it's not the climax of Tacitus's account because he saves that. There's another climax coming once he's, he's captured.

• 59:43Tristan Hughes?

  And let's cover that now. So, um, so he wants to open a third front in Yorkshire with the Brigantes. He's not giving up Caratacus. But this time. His attempts to convince the leaders to join him and to resist the Romans, it doesn't work out quite as well.

• 59:59Speaker 01

  No, the Briganti, I mean Briganties have a very large territory. So it might be a whole series of different clan-based groups. We're told their leader is, is an individual called Cartimandua. And Cartimandua, as, as queen of the Briganties, is on the Roman side. They, the Briganties have been kept out of the conflict at this stage. We know there's lots of Roman trade goods coming into their territory. So it might be they've been paid off, that Rome is not going to invade them. And he wants the Briganties to be stable and quiet and content whilst they focus on getting rid of Caratacus in Wales. So essentially, when Caratacus turns up on Cartimandua's doorstep, she's not going to be very happy. And I think Cartimandua has a very bad deal as far as history goes

• 1:00:43Speaker 01

  because most people view her as a quisling, as a traitor, because she hands Caratacus over to the Romans.

• 1:00:49Tristan Hughes?

  The contrast to Boudica almost that people always say.

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I think, you know, even Boudica was on the Roman side to, to begin with, uh, until she's treated very badly by Rome. But I think Cartimandua, you know, we can't think of her as, as a part of this big pan-British collective. She's got her own tribe, her own people. She views Rome as a threat, therefore she's happy being friends with them. Caratacus is somebody who's going to whip up resistance and rebellion. If he stays in her lands, the Roman armies will follow and they will cause devastation. She doesn't want that. For her survival and for survival of her people, she has to hand him over. And of course, that bolsters her, uh, position within the Roman Empire. So I think, um, effectively she hasn't got a, it's a very easy decision to make. He arrives, capture him, send word

• 1:01:35Speaker 01

  to Ostoria Scapula, the governor, we've got your guy. Ostoria Scapula, fantastic. You know, the war now is over. You can send dispatches to Claudius to say, we've got the resistance leader. You can now say that the conquest of Britain is complete.

• 1:01:48Tristan Hughes?

  It's also interesting with, with the Briganties and their links to Rome, because with new archaeology, it's showing that kind of their centres like Stannic, there is clear Roman contact there. It's not like further west in Wales with the Siluris where there's much less Roman contact. There is clear Roman influence at that time, Roman traders and so on. So that, I guess that's another, uh, string to the bow, saying that why, you know, um, Cartimandua would not want to join Caratacus because that Roman influence is much clearer there than it was further west. Um, but, and as you say, it all links in with the fact that she does hand over Caratacus, they've now captured him. And can we say that he's the last kind of then independent king of the Britons?

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  I think so, yes. In, in the sense, he's the last one to actively fight against the Romans and to understand how their armies work. So in the sense that, that Boudica obviously a bit later fights another war against Rome, but at that stage, she is a client, she and her husband Prasutagus, they are friends with Rome, they are allies, they are on the Roman side. So he's the last leader that we know of who is really stirring up resistance, um, a, a, against the Roman state. So he effectively is the last free king of, of southern Britain.

• 1:03:01Tristan Hughes?

  So let's get to the epilogue. There is one last part to Caratacus's story, isn't there? Normally for these enemies, these figureheads that have caused Rome so much trouble for so many years and are finally captured, they're brought back to Rome, paraded and then ceremonially executed. It doesn't feel like Caratacus has a good end in store, especially as also his, his family's been captured as well. But how does it actually play out for him?

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  It plays out very well for him, uh, but it also plays out very well for Claudius because as you say, you quite to say that, that usually barbarian leaders form part of a, a great triumphal procession and they're then ceremonially executed.

• 1:03:48Tristan Hughes?

  Versingeterics.

• 1:03:49Speaker 01

  Versingeterics, exactly. After Julius Caesar's campaigns, um, a couple of years later, he is ceremonially strangled, garroted at the end of, of that, that celebration. So at that stage, um, Caratacus, as somebody who's fought Rome for 10 years, doesn't know what the future is gonna, is he gonna be crucified? Is he gonna be thrown into the arena? Is he gonna be strangled? We don't know what's, what's gonna happen. But Claudius, I think, I mean, he's the ma- arch-stage manager of, of events. He wants to present the conquest of Britain as a great military achievement akin to some of the Julius Caesar and all the kind of earlier Roman generals. So he stage manages this huge procession with all the captured trophies and prisoners of war and soldiers bearing full arms through the

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  city of Rome. And right at the end, we're told, we've got Caratacus, his family, um, and immediate retainers are brought forward as, as part of this, this, um, uh, procession. And right in front of, um, Claudius and sort of the imperial retinue, we're told that Caratacus gives a speech. Now Tacitus gives that speech, um, in, in, in whole. Obviously, this is the first time that a Roman audience is hearing a Briton speak, whereas in battles, it's someone on a hill shouting at his troop, you've no idea what they're saying. So here, Caratacus is giving this speech in Rome. It may be a speech that Claudius wrote for him. It may be that he composed it himself, but it basically sort of saying, you know,

• 1:05:14Speaker 01

  why do you envy our mud huts when you've got the city of marble? Um, you know, I had plenty of things to loss, to lose. That's why I resisted. Um, but if you kill me now, um, basically I'll, I'll be a nobody and you'll be a nobody. But if you let me live, if you show me clemency, then you're the bigger, you're the bigger guy in all this. And Claudius knows that very well because not only is Claudius trying to show that he's better than Julius Caesar militarily, because Caesar went to Britain twice, achieved nothing. Claudius has gone and has conquered the island. So he's saying, I'm better than Caesar in military terms, but I'm a better person as well because I don't kill my enemies, I forgive them. And so he shows clemency to Caratacus. We're told that the chains are

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  struck from him. He's given his freedom. He can't leave Rome, so not much of it. He is effectively house arrest. But that, we're told there are wild celebrations there because Claudius is showing he's a better human than Julius Caesar ever was. So we now got the situation where Caratacus and his family are residents in Rome.

• 1:06:16Tristan Hughes?

  So they're given citizenship as well, do we think?

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  Well, we don't know. That's where, having given that big speech, it goes quiet.

• 1:06:23Tristan Hughes?

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  So we don't know. There are, we know there are lots of Britons in Rome at that time. Um, there are lots of, um, Juvenal and other writers at the time, often quite sneering about these road painted barbarians in their midst. But it's quite clear they are there. There's probably a, a part of Rome or one of the cities nearby which is, is given over to these hostages. But that's where Caratacus, as far as we know, lives out his, his days as, um, as a, a guest of the emperor.

• 1:06:50Tristan Hughes?

  A trophy at the same time, I guess as well. But he's given, I mean, is he presumably given a house, you know, with his family, just got to adjust to the climates. And, but maybe compared to Togadimnas, with, with Fishbourne Palace or Togadimnas, uh, which has no, uh, good kind of stuff with that kind of southern Britain climate, maybe you got the better deal in the end.

• 1:07:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, perhaps. I mean, both brothers, yeah, as you say, both brothers end up quite well. They've got retirement homes. Uh, one's in, on the coast of West Sussex, one's in central Italy. I mean, you have to judge which is better.

• 1:07:19Tristan Hughes?

  Um, Miles, it's such a great story, that of Caratacus. And it's also been really interesting to explore various theories about various parts of his, his story, his resistance to Rome, because there are those big gaps that still survive. But it must have been quite the tale, and he must have been quite the figure to explore in depth in your book, because he deserves his time in the spotlight.

• 1:07:44Speaker 01

  I think he does. Uh, he, he's very much a forgotten character. And I think, you know, in the early medieval period, he's still remembered. He resonates down lots of, um, early Welsh dynasties claim descent from him. Um, he's a figure, I mean, William Shakespeare, he writes the play Cymbeline, uh, which is about Cynibelinus. We get Caratacus appearing in, in there. So he's someone who's, who's very much remembered. I think, I think by the beginning of the 20th century, he's associated with sort of the, um, the rising of, of Welsh identities, taken on board as a, as a Welsh resistance leader. He's linked also with recruitment at the beginning of the First World War. So he gets all kind of negative publicity because of the kind of deaths that occurred by, or sort

• 1:08:28Speaker 01

  of the Welsh, uh, mining villages and towns who sent troops over there as part of this great heroic Celtic adventure. So I think his publicity, his, his, uh, heroism, his story is on the wane by the beginning of the 20th century, at a point that Boudica is on the up. So Boudica gets picked up by suffragettes, she gets picked up by a civil rights movement. She's perceived more as an heroic character. And you really can't move for stories about Boudica today because she's, I mean, quite rightly so. But she's a very celebrated character, whereas Caratacus is forgotten. He's, he's the primary resistance leader, but he's somebody, for whatever reason, politically, socially, uh, he has been largely ignored.

• 1:09:09Tristan Hughes?

  Until now.

• 1:09:10Speaker 01

  Until now.

• 1:09:11Tristan Hughes?

  With your book, uh, and your book is coming out, it is called?

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  It is called Caratacus, Great King of Britain.

• 1:09:16Tristan Hughes?

  Great King of Britain, Miles.

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  It's published by Bloomsbury.

• 1:09:18Tristan Hughes?

  Um, Miles, it just goes to me to say, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show.

• 1:09:23Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:09:24Tristan Hughes?

  Thanks so much for joining us on The Ancients today. I hope you enjoyed the episode. And if you are loving The Ancients, then why not become a History Hit subscriber? As a subscriber, you will have access to hundreds of hours of original documentaries with a new release every week, plus early access and ad-free podcasts. You can sign up at historyhit.com/subscribe. See you in the next episode.