EP.235 - KIM DEAL

Adam talks with American musician Kim Deal of The Breeders and Pixies. Ramble topics include what it was like playing Glastonbury and what Adam thought of Coldplay, musical influences, Dad chat, identical twin chat, childhood memories, working with Steve Albini, and Star Trek TNG. Conversation recorded face-to-face in London on 19th July, 2024. Thanks to Séamus Murphy-Mitchell for production support Podcast illustration by Helen Green https://helengreenillustration.com/ RELATED LINKS KIM DEAL - NOBODY LOVES YOU MORE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osOWmt5YYuw&t=26s (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - 2024 (YOUTUBE) THE BREEDERS - LIVE IN BIG SUR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcFS92RAnYk&t=0s - 2024 (YOUTUBE) THE BREEDERS - CANNONBALL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxvkI9MTQw4 (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - 1993 (YOUTUBE) THE BREEDERS - DIVINE HAMMER https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db3nTa6UXwg (interview and track with Conan O'Brien) - 1993 (YOUTUBE) THE BREEDERS - THE SHE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dISgyfzHKPI (Live on Last Call with Carson Daly) - 2002 (YOUTUBE) PIXIES - LIVE AT VPRO STUDIOS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9_7AKZ90RE for Dutch music show 'Fa Onrust' - 1988 (YOUTUBE) THE BREEDERS - IRIS, WHEN I WAS A PAINTER https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzAt4D4r-9c Performances on Snub TV - 1990 (YOUTUBE) THE AMPS - PACER https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3DF7Mufmhw (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - 1995 (YOUTUBE) ROGER MILLER - KING OF THE ROAD - 1965 (YOUTUBE) LAUREL & HARDY - BLUE RIDGE MOUNTAINS OF VIRGINIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAfjgTc-t0U - 1937 (YOUTUBE) UPLIFTING MOVIES JANE GOLDMAN'S PICKS MEET ME IN ST LOUIS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdEouRM7Xv8 (TRAILER) Directed by Vincente Minnelli - 1944 (YOUTUBE) AMÉLIE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUECWi5pX7o (TRAILER) Directed by Jean-Pierre Jeunet - 2001 (YOUTUBE) LARS AND THE REAL GIRL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNcs9DrKYRU (TRAILER) Directed by Craig Gillespie - 2007 (YOUTUBE) TIM KEY'S PICKS VICTORIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qorWoQfoKFU Directed by Sebastian Schipper (TRAILER) - 2015 (YOUTUBE) SAFETY LAST https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhNtSU8ubf0 Directed by Fred C. Newmeyer, Sam Taylor (TRAILER) - 1923 (YOUTUBE) NUTS IN MAY https://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x52oy6(PART 1 of 5)) Directed by Mike Leigh - 1976 (DAILY MOTION) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Adam Buxton?

  Rosie, do you wanna come out for a walk in Storm Dara?

• 0:05Speaker 01

  No, thank you. I'd like a screech scratch.

• 0:08Adam Buxton?

  Under the chin, around the chestal area.

• 0:13Adam Buxton?

  How's that?

• 0:15Speaker 01

  Quite nice.

• 0:16Adam Buxton?

  Sure you don't wanna come for a walk in Storm Dara?

• 0:18Speaker 01

  No, thanks.

• 0:20Adam Buxton?

  Alright, I'll see you later.

• 0:30Adam Buxton?

  I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin. Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening. I took my microphone and found some human folk. Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke. My name is Adam Buckston, I'm a man. I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan.

• 1:03Adam Buxton?

  Hey, how are you doing, podcast?

• 1:07Adam Buxton?

  Adam Buckston here, your intrepid podcast host, reporting to you from a freezing rainy windy farm track in the east of England, Norfolk County. And this is, I think, the tail end of Storm Dara.

• 1:21Adam Buxton?

  It was lashing the house, buffeting castle buckles right through the night and for the last day or two. Not that I'm complaining, we have had it way easier than some parts of the UK. And we still have our power as I speak. Usually what happens when we get any kind of storm around here is that the power goes down. The old power lines in these country parks get a tree branch on them or whatever and then that's you out of action for a bit, till the power rangers can get them back up again.

• 1:55Adam Buxton?

  Anyway, I hope you're doing alright wherever you are.

• 2:00Adam Buxton?

  Oh, it's like having little needles fired at you. Little cold needles.

• 2:09Adam Buxton?

  I mean, you might be thinking, why don't you just do the intro from your house?

• 2:14Adam Buxton?

  Well, that's true. I suppose I could do that, but I didn't go out all yesterday. The storm was so bad. And it's not raining quite as hard as it was yesterday, just at this moment. Plus, it's the brand, isn't it? You've got to do that intro and outro from the fields.

• 2:33Adam Buxton?

  Oh, I'm regretting the brand at the moment. Oh, some quite good squelchy field action here for the Foley fans.

• 2:48Adam Buxton?

  Axel Foley. Here we go. Suddenly, everything's calmed down. Maybe I'm just in a stretch where I'm protected by this little cops over to my right. So I'm going to linger here while I tell you a bit about my guest for podcast number two hundred and thirty-five. She is one of my favourite musicians, someone whose music has improved my life immeasurably over the years. Kim Deal. Deal facts. Kimberly Anne Deal was born in June nineteen sixty-one, eleven minutes after her twin sister Kelly, and she grew up in the Dayton, Ohio suburb of Huber Heights. She learned how to play acoustic guitar from the Neil Young Easy Guitar Book

• 3:33Adam Buxton?

  and cut her teeth playing gigs at truck stops, biker bars and country bars, where she would play covers of songs by Delaney and Bonnie, Blind Faith and Hank Williams. Meanwhile, Kim got a degree in medical technology and after leaving college, worked for a few years in labs analysing patient test samples. In nineteen eighty-six, Kim moved to Boston after getting married, and during her first week working at a doctor's office, she was leafing through a local paper when she saw an ad that said, "Ban seeks bassist into Huskadoo" and Peter Paul and Mary, please, no chops. After responding to the ad, Kim met Charles Thompson and his flatmate Joey Santiago,

• 4:18Adam Buxton?

  and accepted their invitation to join their band, Pixies. Come on Pilgrim, an EP of songs from the band's demo, was released the following year, 1987, on the 4AD label. The Pixies' debut album, Serfa Rosa, was recorded by Steve Albini, a producer whose uncompromising and principled approach to music production made him an industry legend. Serfa Rosa was released in 1988, the same year that Kim got divorced. Pixies took a break after the breakthrough success of their 1989 album, Do Little, and during the hiatus, Kim formed The Breeders with Tanya Donnelly of the band Throwing Muses, Josephine Wiggs of The Perfect Disaster, and Britt Walford of Slint.

• 5:02Adam Buxton?

  Kim's sister Kelly stepped in following the release of The Breeders' debut album, Pod, when Tanya Donnelly left The Breeders to start her own band, Belly. The Breeders' second LP, Last Splash, was released in 1993 and included the huge hit Cannonball, accompanied by a music video directed by Sonic Youth's Kim Gordon and a young Spike Jones.

• 5:38Adam Buxton?

  Another track from Last Splash, an instrumental called SOS, was sampled a few years later by a British band for a song that went on to become another huge hit. This was the bit that was sampled.

• 5:54Adam Buxton?

  That was turned into...

• 6:02Adam Buxton?

  Firestarter by The Prodigy. As far as The Breeders were concerned, in the mid to late 90s, struggles with drugs, oh, struggles with drugles, and alcohol led both Kim and Kelly to spend time in rehab. But by 2002, a revitalised and reformed line-up of The Breeders released a new album, titled TK, followed by Mountain Battles in 2008 and All Nerve in 2018. More recently, The Breeders toured to celebrate the 30th anniversary of Last Splash. And this year, 2024, they even joined the phenomenally successful young actor and singer, Olivia Rodrigo, on her world tour as a supporting act, including four sold-out

• 6:46Adam Buxton?

  shows at Madison Square Garden in New York City. And I don't know if there are too many other bands who can say that they once toured with Olivia Rodrigo and Nirvana, as The Breeders did in 1992. This year has also seen the release of Kim's first solo album, Nobody Loves You More. The album, which often sounds quite different to what you might expect from Kim, features production one last time from Steve Albini, who sadly died from a heart attack in May this year, adding another layer of poignancy to an album already liberally sprinkled with the stuff. I talked to Kim about one of the tracks on there, Are You Mine?, a beautifully reworked

• 7:28Adam Buxton?

  version of a song Kim first released in 2013 that was inspired by a period in her life which began in 2002, when she moved back to Dayton, Ohio, to help care for her mother who had Alzheimer's. My conversation with Kim was recorded face-to-face in July of this year, 2024. It was a properly rambling chat that touched on our respective experiences of the Glastonbury Festival this year, hers from playing at the festival with The Breeders, mine from watching it on TV. We talked about Kim's earliest musical influences. She told me about her dad and his remarkable life. There's a bit of identical twin chat, childhood memories. We talked about working with Steve Albini.

• 8:11Adam Buxton?

  And then, at the end, you'll hear a short chat about our mutual love of the TV show Star Trek: The Next Generation. Back at the end for another couple of uplifting film recommendations from Tim Key and screenwriter Jane Goldman, but right now with Kim Deal. Here we go.

• 8:30Speaker 02

  Rumble chat, let's have a rumble chat. We'll focus first on this, then concentrate on that. Come on, let's chew the fat and have a rumble chat. Put on your conversation coat and mind your talking hat. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 9:09Speaker 03

  I have an SM7 at home that I use to sing in.

• 9:12Adam Buxton?

  Quite handy.

• 9:13Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:14Adam Buxton?

  This is a mini one.

• 9:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, it looks pugged.

• 9:16Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 9:16Speaker 03

  I've never seen a mini one.

• 9:18Adam Buxton?

  This is a relatively new one.

• 9:20Speaker 03

  Aren't those a pain in the butt, those vice things?

• 9:23Adam Buxton?

  Yes.

• 9:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:24Adam Buxton?

  I mean, it's...

• 9:25Speaker 03

  Mine doesn't swing like that, the arm, it doesn't have an arm like that.

• 9:29Adam Buxton?

  Well, look, I've got this, what would you call these?

• 9:34Speaker 03

  I know what those are called, but I forgot right now.

• 9:35Adam Buxton?

  Stretchy, a touch.

• 9:36Speaker 03

  Bungy?

• 9:37Adam Buxton?

  Bungy, exactly, right. Um, I've got one of those because the armature doesn't sit where you, where I want it to.

• 9:45Speaker 03

  I'm confused why that's helpful, where?

• 9:47Adam Buxton?

  Well, because sometimes, sometimes it's, sometimes it keeps popping up.

• 9:52Speaker 03

  Oh, that's surprising.

• 9:54Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 9:54Speaker 03

  I would have thought it was sinking.

• 10:00Adam Buxton?

  I'm gonna keep all of this in.

• 10:03Adam Buxton?

  No, it pops up because it's so light.

• 10:05Speaker 03

  Fantastic.

• 10:06Adam Buxton?

  There you go, that's better, that's better.

• 10:06Speaker 03

  Wow, okay.

• 10:08Adam Buxton?

  I think that sound is a bit better for my mic. That is good. Oh, I've got a terrible back.

• 10:16Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 10:16Adam Buxton?

  Sorry to offload all my middle-aged...

• 10:19Speaker 03

  No, I had one, but I've, I've gotten it pretty good, sussed out now. It was a nemesis of mine.

• 10:24Adam Buxton?

  What do you do?

• 10:25Speaker 03

  Um, I went to um, an ace. And he's had me do two things. And I keep going back if ever I get problematic. He sits here, I stand in front of him and he puts his thumbs here and he goes. And he's a doctor, but he's just in a strip mall and he says bend over.

• 10:45Adam Buxton?

  Kim is putting her thumbs on her lower back and raising her right knee. And then her left.

• 10:50Speaker 03

  Okay now, bend over.

• 10:53Speaker 03

  He goes, okay, hop up, you're out. Do you garden?

• 10:57Adam Buxton?

  No, but I cycle. And I have a Brompton, a fold up bike. And I worry that the weight of the bike is too much.

• 11:04Speaker 03

  When you're walking around.

• 11:05Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, I walk around with it and and carry it and stuff.

• 11:09Speaker 03

  Here's what he told me.

• 11:10Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 11:11Speaker 03

  It was really hard.

• 11:14Speaker 03

  Don't pick up guitar cases anymore. I'm like, no, but I I can't, I can't get somebody else to pick up my guitar. I mean, that's impossible. I can't, it's not gonna happen. I've got to pick up. Don't do it. And then go back and go back. And then now I'm like, now I'm like. Put my guitar away, lock up my case, and then I just like, somebody's gotta get that.

• 11:34Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:35Speaker 03

  So that's how I've stopped it getting worse. Because if I did pick up that and I carried your bike, I would have a problem then, definitely. You're too old to lift now.

• 11:44Adam Buxton?

  Yes, I don't wanna be too old to lift.

• 11:47Speaker 03

  That's too bad.

• 11:48Adam Buxton?

  Doctor deal.

• 11:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:50Adam Buxton?

  Why do you look so young?

• 11:52Speaker 03

  It's good living, positive thinking.

• 11:54Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 11:55Speaker 03

  Good energy.

• 11:56Adam Buxton?

  Do you dye your hair, do you mind me asking?

• 11:57Speaker 03

  Oh, no, I don't mind. Yeah, I just did it on Monday.

• 12:00Adam Buxton?

  Oh, it looks very good.

• 12:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just the roots, you know.

• 12:04Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 12:04Speaker 03

  But I've been doing it for a long time, so it's it's something I'm used to.

• 12:09Adam Buxton?

  A lot of my podcast conversations these days, I've noticed, start with vanity chat.

• 12:14Speaker 03

  Really?

• 12:15Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 12:15Speaker 03

  That's, are, why are you?

• 12:17Adam Buxton?

  Because I'm, because I'm getting to that age, like everything's, I'm. You know, the war with my cowardly hair is being lost in a far, far faster than it ever was. Like in the last five years, it's suddenly gone all patchy and baldy.

• 12:32Speaker 03

  Right.

• 12:32Adam Buxton?

  That's why I'm wearing a hat.

• 12:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:34Adam Buxton?

  And.

• 12:35Speaker 03

  It's hard, though, once you start wearing a beanie, it's hard to live life without it.

• 12:39Adam Buxton?

  Exactly.

• 12:40Speaker 03

  All of a sudden, it's like, oh, my head is really cold today. Why, oh, I forgot to put my beanie on. It's funny, isn't it?

• 12:47Adam Buxton?

  It is, but I don't wanna be. Anyway, look, I'm doing it again. I don't want to spend the whole conversation wanging on about my bald patch. How was, how was Glastonbury?

• 12:58Speaker 03

  You know, somebody asked me that and, um, or it was like Glastonbury.

• 13:07Speaker 03

  You'd have to ask somebody who went. I don't know. Only because, okay, so we were at the park stage.

• 13:16Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 13:17Speaker 03

  I suppose. Somebody told me we were gonna play there. Courtney Barnett told me we were gonna play there.

• 13:22Adam Buxton?

  Ah, she's brilliant.

• 13:22Speaker 03

  Stella.

• 13:23Adam Buxton?

  Yeah. Was she there this year?

• 13:24Speaker 03

  No, but they were backstage at the London show that we played and they said something about, oh, Glastonbury. It's like, it's just so big. How can anybody have an opinion about it unless you're like Dua Lipa or something? It's, you know,

• 13:37Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 13:37Speaker 03

  It's tremendous. It's cool. I'm Coldplay. I have an opinion. Anybody else, you're just, we're gonna need that space that your bus is sitting at, so get out so we can get the next band in. It's like, go, go, go.

• 13:49Adam Buxton?

  Right. So there's no, you didn't like wander around and go to a full

• 13:52Speaker 03

  I wouldn't, I wouldn't know where to wander. I don't even think I have the right pass to get off the grounds to wander. Seriously, I don't think I do.

• 13:59Adam Buxton?

  So that kind of thing, you go in, you're on your bus or your transit van or whatever, you go straight to the backstage area. Do you sound check?

• 14:09Speaker 03

  I can't remember.

• 14:10Adam Buxton?

  Or do they sound check for you? I always wonder how it works.

• 14:13Speaker 03

  I don't think, I don't, I would have been, I would be surprised if I had to sound check that day.

• 14:18Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 14:18Speaker 03

  Can't remember.

• 14:19Adam Buxton?

  Well, lots of artists had problems with their sound.

• 14:22Speaker 03

  This year?

• 14:23Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 14:23Speaker 03

  I read that.

• 14:25Adam Buxton?

  There was a few people who were out of sync, Cyndi Lauper's set, and then people online were going nuts.

• 14:31Speaker 03

  Is that on television?

• 14:32Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 14:33Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 14:35Speaker 03

  I heard that too, but then I didn't see it, but then, music always sounds bad on live TV.

• 14:43Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 14:44Speaker 03

  So all of these loving, this loving work that to create this sonic environment and atmosphere for this song to work perfectly at this one moment, it just, all you hear is this snare drum going quack, quack, and then me just going, ah.

• 15:02Speaker 03

  So it's painful. Thank you.

• 15:04Adam Buxton?

  You did sound good. It was fun. I mean, was it fun though? Do you remember if it was enjoyable?

• 15:08Speaker 03

  It was enjoyable. It was a nice day and yeah, it was enjoyable.

• 15:13Adam Buxton?

  I was impressed though, because I could see.

• 15:14Speaker 03

  Did you see that? You were at home watching it?

• 15:16Adam Buxton?

  I was at home watching it.

• 15:17Speaker 03

  But you felt like you were at Glastonbury, don't you a little bit?

• 15:19Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, I felt I was at, I felt I was at the best Glastonbury, the one with a sofa and a big projection screen and the cold beer.

• 15:28Speaker 03

  She was a good act for Glastonbury, wasn't she?

• 15:30Adam Buxton?

  Dua Lipa?

• 15:30Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 15:31Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, we watched that in the evening. We had some supper and then we watched a bit of Dua Lipa and then we thought that's enough Dua Lipa and then we went to bed.

• 15:38Speaker 03

  And did you watch the Coldplay? They're a good Glastonbury band too, aren't they? Explosions, color.

• 15:43Adam Buxton?

  I have to be honest with you.

• 15:44Speaker 03

  A festival.

• 15:45Adam Buxton?

  And say that I almost got a bit teary watching Coldplay.

• 15:49Speaker 03

  I think I'm gonna have to leave. Really? That's really sweet.

• 15:53Adam Buxton?

  I thought this guy is absolutely smashing it. And I turned it on right at the bit where he was saying some speech about like, okay, everyone in the crowd, turn around and just send out like a load of love. Just a load of love to like your granny or whoever, just send some like lots of, lots of love. And I was thinking, what the fuck is going on?

• 16:18Speaker 03

  And did you feel it through the, through the airwaves though?

• 16:21Adam Buxton?

  My initial response was a big wave of cynicism.

• 16:24Speaker 03

  Right, of course.

• 16:25Adam Buxton?

  And I was in trouble. I was almost overwhelmed by the cynicism. And then suddenly though, after that, he did this thing where he was, he got the cameras to focus on different audience members. And their faces went up on the Jumbotron. And then he improvised a song for each person.

• 16:46Speaker 03

  Get out.

• 16:47Adam Buxton?

  That he focused on.

• 16:48Speaker 03

  He did not.

• 16:49Adam Buxton?

  He did. He was out there with his guitar. And I don't know if he practiced beforehand, like maybe got the camera people backstage to pick out some people and then made up little ditties, but he improvised like four little songs and it was very good.

• 17:03Speaker 03

  The ditties were good and the people saw that they were on and he was singing the song for them. I bet they were freaked.

• 17:08Adam Buxton?

  The thing is that he's a really good singer.

• 17:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:11Adam Buxton?

  So it was like, wow, you can really sing. And the ditties were funny.

• 17:15Speaker 03

  So it was just him and his guitar.

• 17:17Adam Buxton?

  Him and his guitar.

• 17:17Speaker 03

  That's nice.

• 17:18Adam Buxton?

  And then the band come back in, the band sound absolutely brilliantly drilled, super tight.

• 17:23Speaker 03

  Did they sound good over TV?

• 17:24Adam Buxton?

  Very good.

• 17:25Speaker 03

  Nice.

• 17:25Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, I mean, they're paying the right people presumably, don't they? They can afford to pay the guy to turn the bass up.

• 17:33Adam Buxton?

  Who Cyndi Lauper couldn't pay off.

• 17:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 17:36Adam Buxton?

  But no, they were very good, whether you like their music or not, and it just.

• 17:40Speaker 03

  It's a perfect combination.

• 17:42Adam Buxton?

  It was perfect.

• 17:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:43Adam Buxton?

  It was really great. But I must say, I was impressed when you were singing. I gathered my children round. I said, we're going to watch The Breeders and.

• 17:51Speaker 03

  Daddy's gotta work. Help me get through this.

• 17:54Adam Buxton?

  Yeah. And I said, you're going to enjoy this. This is what music's supposed to be like.

• 17:59Speaker 03

  Oh, God, Lord.

• 18:01Adam Buxton?

  But immediately you came in and you and Kelly, you do harmonies that are very, quite precise, right?

• 18:08Speaker 03

  Well, I don't know. It depends on who's listening and what night it is.

• 18:12Adam Buxton?

  Yeah. You sang when you were very little with your sister, with Kelly, right?

• 18:16Speaker 03

  I mean, I, I have this cute tape. Um, it was a little, little tape machine that you have the little reel to reel.

• 18:24Adam Buxton?

  Like a Fisher Price type thing?

• 18:26Speaker 03

  Well, it was my mom's and dad's.

• 18:27Adam Buxton?

  Oh, so it was a bit better than that?

• 18:28Speaker 03

  Quarter inch, maybe two track. I think it was a two track.

• 18:32Adam Buxton?

  Okay.

• 18:32Speaker 03

  Uh, but it wasn't a nice one that you can find on eBay now. And it was really expensive because it needs to be cute. It's not one of those. But, um, we had a recording of that and we and her are singing. And I listened to it just recently. You know, I thought it was going to sound better. I had it in my mind that we were like, what is it called when children are little geniuses?

• 18:53Adam Buxton?

  Prodigies.

• 18:53Speaker 03

  Pro- I thought we were little prodigies. And I listened to it and it's like, eh, it's all right. Yeah, we're doing okay. But we do an ink, sing the whole thing in an English accent.

• 19:02Adam Buxton?

  Oh, wow.

• 19:03Speaker 03

  The English accent I think is pretty good. As long, I, I can't sing it. I can't do the English accent. A needs me in spite of what you say. Do you know what I'm even singing? Okay, this.

• 19:20Adam Buxton?

  No. What's the song? I want to hear the whole song though. I want to hear the whole song in that accent.

• 19:25Speaker 03

  But am I, do I sound like an, a barn owl to you? Or do you know what I'm talking about?

• 19:30Adam Buxton?

  I don't know the song. You, you sound.

• 19:32Speaker 03

  Barn owl it is.

• 19:33Adam Buxton?

  You sound like a soulful Cockney lady.

• 19:38Speaker 03

  It's the bar wench on, uh, what's Oliver?

• 19:41Adam Buxton?

  Oliver, yeah.

• 19:42Speaker 03

  That's right. So you did know?

• 19:44Adam Buxton?

  Oh, is it an Oliver song? I'm not very good on my musicals.

• 19:48Speaker 03

  I'm not either. I, this was, I was four.

• 19:51Adam Buxton?

  All I want is an home somewhere, far away from the cold night air. That's Mary Poppins though, isn't it?

• 19:59Speaker 03

  I don't know. I don't know musicals. But I do know Oliver. We had that one.

• 20:04Adam Buxton?

  Oh, well, that's very good. And then, were you and Kelly though? Had you already established that particular type of harmony that you do on a lot of your songs?

• 20:12Speaker 03

  Just singing together. I don't know. We were harmonizing then. And then we did, um, secondhand rose. I'm singing secondhand, whatever.

• 20:24Speaker 03

  I don't know the words anymore. We did that one too.

• 20:28Adam Buxton?

  That's good. You know what? I heard you on Six Music talking about the fact that the first song you ever learned to play was King of the Road.

• 20:34Speaker 03

  It is.

• 20:35Adam Buxton?

  Which I'm, I'm trying to play it. I can't play guitar and I'm learning to play King of the Road.

• 20:40Speaker 03

  That's a good one to be the first one to learn, isn't it?

• 20:43Adam Buxton?

  I just don't think my fingers are ever going to be able to move fast enough.

• 20:46Speaker 03

  Well, how, how fast are you trying to play the song?

• 20:49Adam Buxton?

  I want it, the guy on YouTube, the guy on YouTube is.

• 20:54Speaker 03

  Oh God, no, no, no, no. That's not, no, I don't know how to play that. That's way too fancy.

• 20:59Adam Buxton?

  So what are you playing then? Just the chords?

• 21:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 21:04Speaker 03

  Do you want me to get the one with the colorful one?

• 21:07Adam Buxton?

  That one's a tune.

• 21:08Speaker 03

  Which one does it start with?

• 21:10Adam Buxton?

  Uh, what's that?

• 21:22Speaker 03

  Oh, you got a D minor seven? Are you crazy?

• 21:26Adam Buxton?

  D minor seven?

• 21:35Speaker 03

  Fifty cents. No polo, no pets. I ain't got no cigarettes, all but two hours of push up of... T minor seven is hard for me. Push and bring guys and eight by twelve by four bedroom. I'm a man of means by no means. King of the road.

• 22:06Adam Buxton?

  Very nice. Do you remember what it was like to learn how to play guitar? Did you learn quite quickly? Were you quite a natural?

• 22:13Speaker 03

  My dad was sitting in the chair. It was his guitar.

• 22:15Adam Buxton?

  Ah, right.

• 22:16Speaker 03

  And he was taking lessons. Is that gonna be okay?

• 22:19Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, that'll be good.

• 22:20Speaker 03

  That make that mad. And my dad was taking lessons and he had a little folder and I sat down, opened the folder, picked up the guitar and began to um, look at the little, you know, these are cute. These little boxes with the little fingers on it.

• 22:33Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, love them.

• 22:33Speaker 03

  That's a puzzle thing. Yeah. So, I started playing it. Kimmy, you're gonna learn guitar quicker than I am. He never did learn how to play guitar.

• 22:42Adam Buxton?

  Didn't he?

• 22:43Speaker 03

  No, he didn't.

• 22:45Adam Buxton?

  Is that West Virginia accent?

• 22:47Speaker 03

  Kimmy, he, they didn't sound too West Vir- my mom did. Sang into the microphone, Kimmy sang. She sounded so hillbilly.

• 22:57Adam Buxton?

  Who, which celebrity has an accent that was similar to your parents' accent?

• 23:01Speaker 03

  Nobody has an accent similar to my mom and dad.

• 23:03Adam Buxton?

  Oh, really?

• 23:04Speaker 03

  No, no. They were, they were from the mountains and the, the Hollers and the stuff.

• 23:10Adam Buxton?

  The Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia.

• 23:11Speaker 03

  West Virginia and it's, is that the Appalachians?

• 23:15Adam Buxton?

  Uh huh.

• 23:16Speaker 03

  I guess there's a range in there, Blue Ridge.

• 23:18Adam Buxton?

  I'm just thinking of the Laurel and Hardy song.

• 23:21Speaker 03

  Oh, what is that?

• 23:23Adam Buxton?

  From the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia, on the trail of the lonesome pine. Am I getting this song right? Do you know this song?

• 23:31Speaker 03

  Um, it sounds familiar.

• 23:34Speaker 03

  Do you sing pretty good?

• 23:35Adam Buxton?

  No.

• 23:38Speaker 03

  Were your family, were your family singers?

• 23:40Adam Buxton?

  My dad thought he was a good singer. When he used to come to the carol service at school, he would sometimes record it, and I still have tapes that my dad made. And all you can hear is his voice booming over everybody else because he thought he was such a good singer.

• 23:55Speaker 03

  Wait a minute, but, but he was in, he was in the choir, right?

• 23:58Adam Buxton?

  No, no, no, he was-

• 23:59Speaker 03

  He was just sitting in the crowd?

• 24:00Adam Buxton?

  It was just the Christmas carol service at the end of term. And he would come along and maybe, like, one year, I think I was in the choir, and he came along and recorded it. And all you can hear is, Once in Royal David City. My dad just absolutely booming and drowning everyone else out.

• 24:22Speaker 03

  Did he sound like that?

• 24:25Adam Buxton?

  No, his voice was a bit higher, his voice, like, it was a bit like that, his voice, a lot of the time. Because he started out, he started out, he learned how to speak with an upper-class English accent.

• 24:38Speaker 03

  Oh, that might not be helpful at all, really, when singing, is it?

• 24:43Adam Buxton?

  He thought it was very helpful and he sang very, very loudly. Did your dad sing, though?

• 24:49Speaker 03

  I think he could, but he, what, he didn't, he wouldn't. He was Depression-era West Virginia coal miner.

• 24:57Adam Buxton?

  Was he an actual coal miner?

• 24:58Speaker 03

  My, my brother was the first male deal that did not work the coal mines.

• 25:04Adam Buxton?

  Really?

• 25:05Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 25:06Adam Buxton?

  Wow, me.

• 25:07Speaker 03

  Yeah. My dad was on the mountain and it hit, you know, ricocheted back and he always had these teeth with a, a replacement, you know, bridge piece.

• 25:16Adam Buxton?

  Holy shit, that is well authentic.

• 25:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, it is, isn't it weird? We always went down-

• 25:21Adam Buxton?

  Your dad's teeth were bashed in by a bit of ricocheting coal from the mine.

• 25:26Speaker 03

  No, a pickaxe that he was using and it ricocheted back into his mouth.

• 25:29Adam Buxton?

  Even better.

• 25:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:31Adam Buxton?

  I don't think my dad ever had any ricocheting pickaxe accidents.

• 25:34Speaker 03

  No. But then he went to Korea and he got the GI Bill and then he became a math professor and then they moved up to Ohio because Wright-Patterson Air Force Base was hiring.

• 25:46Adam Buxton?

  Right.

• 25:46Speaker 03

  And he then became like a physicist and was in the director of the avionics lab, so it wasn't, you know, it wasn't-

• 25:55Adam Buxton?

  What a journey.

• 25:56Speaker 03

  Yes, it is, isn't it?

• 25:57Adam Buxton?

  Yeah. That's amazing.

• 25:59Speaker 03

  I was born in Ohio with Kelly.

• 26:00Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 26:01Speaker 03

  My brother and everybody that I know in my family is from West Virginia, but-

• 26:04Adam Buxton?

  I know you, you- Grew up in Huber Heights.

• 26:07Speaker 03

  That's right. Thirty thousand community of brick homes.

• 26:11Adam Buxton?

  Right.

• 26:12Speaker 03

  Smiling people.

• 26:13Adam Buxton?

  What was it? What was the average summer holiday afternoon like in Huber Heights? What would you get up to?

• 26:19Speaker 03

  The parents yelling at you to pick the dog poop up from the backyard.

• 26:22Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 26:22Speaker 03

  And do the chores on the refrigerator for like a nickel, you know, if I water the backyard flowers, I get a nickel. Um, pick up your crap, that sort of regular thing, I think.

• 26:34Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, happy times.

• 26:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, totally. And then playing on the street constantly. Yeah, definitely. But I just remember the, like, the first thing is, like, the hot sun with me picking up poop. Of course, that's what I'm gonna remember. Not the, you know, the time we laughed when we got sprayed with the hose, you know, that's not owning when it gets gonna come up to me.

• 26:52Adam Buxton?

  Yeah. Would you listen to the radio or would you?

• 26:55Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 26:55Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 26:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you listen to the parents, right? It was AM parents radio at the time, you know? It was different back then, you know?

• 27:03Adam Buxton?

  Sure.

• 27:04Speaker 03

  It wasn't like you had your device and you just pick out whatever, you know, there was no autonomy about what you're gonna listen to. You listen to what's in the car. So just, it's AM. I remember driving around and singing a lot too.

• 27:18Speaker 03

  I honestly love you. Olivia Newton-John. Rock the boat, don't rock the boat. I don't know who does that one.

• 27:25Adam Buxton?

  DeBarge.

• 27:26Speaker 03

  Is that?

• 27:26Adam Buxton?

  Or the Hughes Corporation originally.

• 27:28Speaker 03

  Is it?

• 27:29Adam Buxton?

  I think was the Hughes Corporation.

• 27:32Speaker 03

  The Rock the Boat, baby.

• 27:34Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, weren't they from Philadelphia? I don't know.

• 27:36Speaker 03

  That probably, but why is, do you think there's a cover?

• 27:39Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, there's loads.

• 27:40Speaker 03

  No.

• 27:40Adam Buxton?

  There was a big one in the eighties by DeBarge.

• 27:43Speaker 03

  Oh, no, no, I don't know that one. That's way too late.

• 27:47Adam Buxton?

  Hughes Corporation would have been the one that you were going with, I reckon.

• 27:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, and um. And then high school, you know, sap, then it became Zeppelin and Sabbath.

• 27:57Adam Buxton?

  And did you, did you, when you were exposed to the hard rock, Kim, did you immediately respond positively?

• 28:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, you know, disco was going on really heavy around then. I graduated in seventy nine. So disco had been heavy and it was still heavy because we were in Ohio in Huber Heights. So everything's, it's, there's no punk rock.

• 28:22Adam Buxton?

  Right.

• 28:23Speaker 03

  Don't believe anybody who tells you that we had a punk rock scene in Huber Heights. We never did. But anyway. So, uh, my brother was really into disco. He had the white suit. And they would go to the bars. He was older than me and they were, but not that older, but they would dance and dance and they would have routines that they would do. They were really good.

• 28:43Adam Buxton?

  Wow.

• 28:44Speaker 03

  Yeah. But, um. I just like, if I had the T-shirt, it would have said disco sucks. And I liked having, I not having, it was hard rock back in the day. And the Midwest has a huge tradition of hard rock.

• 28:58Speaker 03

  Black Oak Arkansas, coming through town. Brownsville Station, coming through town. Are these only American things?

• 29:05Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 29:06Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 29:06Adam Buxton?

  I don't know any of those.

• 29:08Speaker 03

  Sammy Hagar solo.

• 29:09Adam Buxton?

  Sammy Hagar I've heard of.

• 29:10Speaker 03

  Right. And before Helen was even, Van Halen was even a band. Um, Nugent, coming through town, Rush. The Outlaws, Marshall Tucker Band. I mean.

• 29:20Adam Buxton?

  Would you go and see all of them?

• 29:21Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, those are the ones that I saw. And then there were tons that I didn't see.

• 29:25Adam Buxton?

  Right. God. Who was the one that made the biggest impression then?

• 29:29Speaker 03

  I watched. I think it was Marshall Tucker Band. And that was the one where I was sitting there and I noticed my sister was on the stage, sitting on the P A. Looking out this way. And that was like, is that Kelly? She was wild.

• 29:47Adam Buxton?

  Was she quite a lot different to you?

• 29:49Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Don't tell her I said that.

• 29:51Adam Buxton?

  All right. That's so wicked. You're identical twins, right?

• 29:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, we are. Mm hmm. I was born 11 minutes after her.

• 29:59Adam Buxton?

  Okay.

• 30:00Speaker 03

  Yeah. We're not very much alike at all.

• 30:02Adam Buxton?

  Really? Is that, is that typical? That's quite unusual, isn't it, for, for twins to have such divergent personalities?

• 30:08Speaker 03

  I don't think so. I don't think so. When I, I've, listen, I get so annoyed at people, you know, not being able, you know, I'm not annoyed, but it's just like. Can't tell us apart, blah, blah, blah. And if you give me a pair of twins, I cannot tell them apart. And I really don't care.

• 30:27Speaker 03

  Will you Linda or Laura? Whatever. So I do, I feel like I just do the same thing.

• 30:32Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 30:32Speaker 03

  When my mom got older, she just said, you know, twins are creepy. But she was in dementia.

• 30:39Adam Buxton?

  Yes.

• 30:40Speaker 03

  But, you know.

• 30:42Adam Buxton?

  But the truth came out.

• 30:43Speaker 03

  Exactly, exactly. But the thing is, you would think that I would have more empathy and an ability to actually pick up the very subtle differences of the way twins look and they just like. They look exactly the same.

• 31:02Adam Buxton?

  They are strange, magical creatures, twins, though, because they're, it's like a glimpse of.

• 31:06Speaker 03

  They're creepy.

• 31:07Adam Buxton?

  It's a glimpse of what everyone, well, I don't know if it's everyone, but I've certainly had the fantasy of like, you know, when you're not able to relate to people, you feel isolated, you sort of, when I was younger, I used to think, if only there was like me, if only I could just hang out with me and I could be best friends with me because I like me and we could just hang out together. And that was, that was in the old days before I didn't like me. You know what I mean? Like when you start getting neurotic and the last person you want to hang out with is me.

• 31:35Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 31:35Adam Buxton?

  But there was a point when I just thought how wonderful it would be if my best friend could be exactly like me.

• 31:41Speaker 03

  That would be wonderful. And I still wish for that day sometime that Kelly could just agree with everything I say and think I'm wonderful and agree with me.

• 31:48Adam Buxton?

  But is the bond between you strong enough that it helps you overcome bad rows? Or have there been times when it's gone full Liam and Noel?

• 31:59Speaker 03

  It's gone bad and we have overcome it. But a lot of it is just like, you know, do you know any sisters or brothers who are like a year apart, you know?

• 32:06Adam Buxton?

  Right.

• 32:07Speaker 03

  It's sort of like that. We have a lot of things similar because we were in the homeroom in the same year. Maybe in the same class because of our last name, because it's alphabetical. It was anyway. And then we were growing up exactly when, you know. Mash's last episode air. So we have a lot of these things as opposed to a brother who was seven years older, who has a totally different record collection. And you know, we didn't have that. I didn't have that. My brother is 18 months older.

• 32:38Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 32:38Speaker 03

  So.

• 32:39Adam Buxton?

  But is it fun now? Is it still fun to be in a band with your sister?

• 32:45Speaker 03

  It can be, it can be good and it can also be really annoying. I gotta tell you, it can be

• 32:53Speaker 03

  like all of them. Sometimes, you know, they can annoy me, but I can annoy them too. Yeah. But it is fun. It is fun. And we, I do enjoy all three of them. And we do have a good camaraderie.

• 33:06Adam Buxton?

  This is the rest of the breeders we're talking about.

• 33:08Speaker 03

  Yes, that I'm talking about. That's right. Yeah.

• 33:10Adam Buxton?

  Good. Well, you do. I mean, I saw you the other day playing at the Troxy. Sounded brilliant.

• 33:15Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 33:16Adam Buxton?

  Playing Last Splash stuff as well as lots of other bits and pieces.

• 33:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:20Adam Buxton?

  But it sounded wonderful.

• 33:21Speaker 03

  Yeah. Good. Thanks.

• 33:22Adam Buxton?

  Um, why didn't you do Last Splash with Steve Albini?

• 33:27Speaker 03

  I know that I wanted overdubs.

• 33:31Adam Buxton?

  Yes.

• 33:33Speaker 03

  I mean,

• 33:35Adam Buxton?

  Kim is giving me a cheesy overdub grin as if it's, as if she's admitting to something shameful.

• 33:41Speaker 03

  I mean, I didn't want to be Steely Dan overdubs, but I did want to like, you know, maybe I can replay that guitar and we don't have to keep the actual track that played with the drums, you know? So that's, Steve's not going to cotton to any of that nonsense.

• 33:56Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 33:56Speaker 03

  Maybe I wanted to double on my vocal. You don't need to double on your vocal, Kim. I'll do it.

• 34:04Speaker 03

  But you don't need it. I don't, Steve. I mean, anything like that.

• 34:10Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 34:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:11Adam Buxton?

  So you just thought, he wasn't going to tolerate the level of finesse that you thought would be nice?

• 34:17Speaker 03

  If finesse again is like, can we try another take?

• 34:23Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 34:25Speaker 03

  You don't need to do another take. There was nothing wrong with that one. And you can hear, he's got whole things. It's hilarious because it's exactly what I would say to him. So, oh, you've got eight on the tape and you think they all sound good? Yeah, let's do another one. You know, and that would be me. Yeah, these all sound great. Let's go for nine. So he totally doesn't want to get involved in that. And I will totally do that. So that's it's it's a good combination.

• 34:50Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 34:51Speaker 03

  Poor thing, poor guy having to deal with me.

• 34:54Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 34:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:55Adam Buxton?

  And his thing was always that he would make a faithful recording of the way a band was, for better or worse. And did it sound that way to you when you heard it back?

• 35:09Speaker 03

  Well, the thing that you said before, I think that he grew into that.

• 35:13Adam Buxton?

  Okay.

• 35:13Speaker 03

  Philosophy. That was something he did later in his life. He had that formed. But before, I think he was fully happy to do experiments. We did some fun things. We um, took some tools uh for a lead guitar uh solo. We took some pliers and we had the guitar amped up and threw a Marshall really loud and then we just clipped the strings and it's going

• 35:42Speaker 03

  and then he would take the tape, the recording of that, and then he would cut them and then take those piece, turn it upside down, put it in a wrong place in the timeline. So when it's going

• 36:00Speaker 03

  and that's the lead guitar.

• 36:01Adam Buxton?

  Ah.

• 36:01Speaker 03

  Which was, it sounded really cool, you know?

• 36:04Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, that's Vamos presumably, is it?

• 36:06Speaker 03

  It is, I think it is.

• 36:07Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 36:07Speaker 03

  I think. I'd have to listen and know. I think I could hear it if I listened to it. So that was his, that's very experimental, you know?

• 36:14Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, that's Wellstockhausen.

• 36:15Speaker 03

  Mm hmm, yeah.

• 36:16Adam Buxton?

  Have you ever met Neil Young and talked to him about things like that? Because he's another one who's absolutely fundamentalist about it.

• 36:23Speaker 03

  You know, I did see him down a long hallway when we played Pixies played Isle of Wight and him and Peggy were standing down the long hallway. And I had a choice to make. I could go back into this room that is mine, or I can walk down the hallway and introduce myself to people who probably have no idea who I am, but I could have done it. They were trapped. The hallway ended there. They had, you know, I could have said that. I could have done that. And I didn't. But I'll always remember that. No, I didn't meet him. Okay?

• 36:52Adam Buxton?

  Yeah. You took the higher ground.

• 36:54Speaker 03

  He's a coward.

• 36:55Adam Buxton?

  Well, it's not cowardly, is it? I mean, you probably made the more mature choice.

• 36:59Speaker 03

  It doesn't feel like it.

• 37:00Adam Buxton?

  Does it not?

• 37:00Speaker 03

  No.

• 37:01Adam Buxton?

  Oh, well, you'll have another opportunity.

• 37:02Speaker 03

  I think they were, they were, they would have been really friendly.

• 37:05Adam Buxton?

  I'm sure they would.

• 37:06Speaker 03

  Yeah. I just didn't, I couldn't do it.

• 37:08Adam Buxton?

  He would have been into your stuff, because he's always much more, you know, like, the superficial impression you get of Neil Young when you're starting out as a young music fan is that he's a sort of crusty old hippie guy. But actually, you don't have any idea of how open-minded he was and how sort of avant-garde his thinking about music was, which is how he could go off and do an album like Trans or whatever.

• 37:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:32Adam Buxton?

  He was always into fooling around and being weird. But yeah, he loves his special sounds.

• 37:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's where I learned to actually do be, uh, really get a grasp of guitar is the beginning guitar for Neil Young.

• 37:46Adam Buxton?

  Ah, yeah.

• 37:47Speaker 03

  And I, I had that book with me.

• 37:49Adam Buxton?

  What songs would you play?

• 37:50Speaker 03

  I would play Heart of Gold, you know, Needle in the Damaged, anything in the book, because here's why it's important for all the guitar players. But now you can just look online.

• 38:00Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 38:00Speaker 03

  But it's great to get songs that you know. And I knew them all, because you can tell when you're making a mistake and you can stop and re-address it, you know. So, I knew how it went and I could, and it's for easy guitar. Don't do those little flicky things. You don't need to do that.

• 38:16Adam Buxton?

  Okay, that's a good tip.

• 38:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:18Adam Buxton?

  Dee-dee-dee-dee-doo.

• 38:19Speaker 03

  No.

• 38:20Adam Buxton?

  Dee-dee. I'm just trying to make my little finger do things that it doesn't want to do.

• 38:24Speaker 03

  What is the dee-dee-dee-dee-dee anywhere?

• 38:29Adam Buxton?

  Have you got the pick there?

• 38:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:33Adam Buxton?

  It is, uh, okay, this is gonna be very slow.

• 38:37Speaker 03

  No, yeah, it should be.

• 38:50Speaker 03

  Oh, that's, and that's how the song starts right there?

• 38:52Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 38:53Speaker 03

  That's the beginning, intro of the song?

• 38:54Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 38:55Speaker 03

  I don't remember that.

• 38:58Adam Buxton?

  And it's got the finger clicks.

• 39:00Speaker 03

  Oh, right. Oh, my God.

• 39:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's awesome. That was really good.

• 39:08Adam Buxton?

  Thanks very much. I mean, it's taken one year to get to that point.

• 39:11Speaker 03

  That's great.

• 39:14Speaker 03

  Who do you make your kids do the finger snaps? Because it's really helpful. Do it again.

• 39:19Adam Buxton?

  That's a good idea. I could get them around.

• 39:21Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 39:36Speaker 03

  What is the words?

• 40:09Adam Buxton?

  Et cetera.

• 40:09Speaker 03

  That's great.

• 40:11Adam Buxton?

  It is a good song, isn't it?

• 40:12Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:13Adam Buxton?

  So, it's so nice to talk to you, Kim.

• 40:15Speaker 03

  Nice to talk to you.

• 40:16Adam Buxton?

  I feel like I did actually write some questions down, and I hope you don't mind if I ask them in a more boring, straightforward way. Do you mind?

• 40:26Speaker 03

  No, not at all. Sorry.

• 40:27Adam Buxton?

  Okay, let's see. I love the new record.

• 40:30Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 40:31Adam Buxton?

  Do you know what it's called yet?

• 40:32Speaker 03

  I think it's "Nobody Who Loves You More."

• 40:34Adam Buxton?

  "Nobody Loves You More."

• 40:35Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 40:36Adam Buxton?

  Is this your first full-length solo record?

• 40:38Speaker 03

  It is.

• 40:39Adam Buxton?

  And it sounds quite different to anything you've done. You've got some horny horns in there.

• 40:43Speaker 03

  I do. Can you imagine when I'm sitting there and I have these horns ideals in my head while I'm playing this song and I'm just like, "I think the horns would be good." And I'm like, "Am I gonna be a person who has trumpet on my record? I don't think I can do that." I told Josephine, I wrote this song, and I had a ukulele in my hand. And she saw the ukulele and she goes, "Absolutely." Not.

• 41:10Adam Buxton?

  This is Josephine from The Breeders.

• 41:11Speaker 03

  Because she's goth, you know, she's not, I mean, not, and she isn't playing. There's no, she's not gonna be in the same room where a yuke is. But you know what? I don't blame her. Am I gonna be a person who is got a yuke? But then it doesn't stop. It's still sitting there in the mind, isn't it? Might as well try it. I know what will work. Oh, no, that didn't sound good. Oh, I know what what it does. Here's what needs to happen. It needs to go this way and then it will sound good. And so it goes on and on. Until like just wrangle it and make it sound the way it sounds in my head.

• 42:39Adam Buxton?

  You know, the label for your new record sent out very kindly in advance of my chat with you today, a PDF of all the lyrics.

• 42:48Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 42:49Adam Buxton?

  Are you aware that they do that?

• 42:51Speaker 03

  It doesn't surprise me.

• 42:53Adam Buxton?

  How do you feel about that? Because that encourages.

• 42:57Speaker 03

  But do you do you get that from everybody or am I special?

• 43:01Adam Buxton?

  No, you're special. I've never, I've talked to a few musicians before and I've never been sent their lyrics.

• 43:07Speaker 03

  They're gonna be on it now. There, maybe they just like here.

• 43:10Adam Buxton?

  Sure, yeah, no, it's very interesting. But I noticed it because often what happens with musicians is they don't really want to talk about the lyrics because it's too on the nose. It encourages an interviewer to say, what's this song about? And that's the question that I feel most musicians don't want to be asked. Is that right?

• 43:30Speaker 03

  Well, I don't know if they don't wanna be asked it, but they, I think I would feel put on the spot because there's really no real answer. You know, because there's like, it's not about like a piece of corn. It's about, you know, the smoke that happened when you cooked the corn. It's like, here, let me show you, you know, then the smoke leaves. It's like, let me show you the smoke that's all gone. But here's a piece of corn. I guess it's about this piece of corn. But it's not about the piece of corn. You see what I'm saying?

• 44:01Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, very good analogy, I think, yeah. I mean, the thing is that I'd already heard the album. And then I saw the lyrics and actually seeing the lines there. And I'm thinking about the song Coast.

• 44:12Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 44:13Adam Buxton?

  Particularly.

• 44:13Speaker 03

  Hit me.

• 44:14Adam Buxton?

  I had an impression of what I thought it was about. And it really moved me because I totally made up my mind. And then I read what you had said about it. No, no, no.

• 44:26Speaker 03

  Hate that when that happens.

• 44:27Adam Buxton?

  That's okay.

• 44:28Speaker 03

  I don't like it when it happens to me.

• 44:29Adam Buxton?

  I think it's still in there. But maybe you were obfuscating when you explained it elsewhere. Maybe I was right. Well, there's a line, clearly all my life I've been foolish. Tried to hit hard, but I blew it. That's a sort of painful line.

• 44:45Speaker 03

  It is.

• 44:45Adam Buxton?

  There's some painful yearning in the, in the record.

• 44:48Speaker 03

  I mean, I am sort of obsessed with failure.

• 44:52Adam Buxton?

  Uh huh.

• 44:52Speaker 03

  I really am. I've got this thing about it.

• 44:56Speaker 03

  I don't know how I got involved in it. I'm just so drawn to it. It's so strange.

• 45:03Adam Buxton?

  As a theme?

• 45:04Speaker 03

  I don't like, I'm not drawn to it as a theme. I'm drawn to it emotionally. And I don't know why. Like I'm looking at these old outlaws like George Jones or Waylon and all of these guys. But there was a period of time where it was working for them. And then they go into the third wife. The high liver enzymes, yellow eat eye, the mutton chops, the huge alimony payments. And then the aviator glasses. And then they, they look, there's something about the bravado of the, and where they are now.

• 45:45Speaker 03

  And maybe there's a pathos that I was just surrounded by it with my mom having Alzheimer's for like 12 years. Just fully, a long time.

• 45:56Speaker 03

  And then my dad dying too, I mean, going down too, I just like every day like cleaning up, you know, the poop and the just living in this little thing in Ohio and I just, you know, and just watching him lose his mind and my mother and the failure of where we're all going anyway. I mean, it's all there for us. It's all out there, ready to be snatched. The failures are all ready for us. There's something so sweet about it. I think it's a really lovely, maybe also peaceful because there ain't nothing else to lose. That's it. And I think there's a quiet state in that. It's kind of relaxing. I don't know.

• 46:44Adam Buxton?

  There's a song that sounds very much like it's about your mom and Alzheimer's. Are you mine?

• 46:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was walking around the house and she was pretty good. She was walking, she was getting dressed, I think, still. And she would just do these things where she would just stop me in the hallway and go, "Are you mine?" And I knew what she was talking about. She was, I heard, baby doll. Is that, I know that's, yes, mama, I'm yours. Yes. Yeah. It wasn't just like, who are you? I've never seen you before. Are you the caregiver? It was like there was some sort of deep connection of mother that she wouldn't even know what a baby was or a mother was, but she was something in her that, that's mine. It was so sweet, you know?

• 47:34Adam Buxton?

  That's tough, man.

• 47:35Speaker 03

  It is, man.

• 48:31Speaker 04

  What's it like recording a song about that kind of thing, though? To try and wrangle those feelings? Because there's so much there. There's the pain of seeing someone you love go through that. Presumably, there's also some fear in there as well for your own future. I mean, I always think about that kind of thing. True. I think I take after my dad more. I think I'm gonna miss it. I think my brother is gonna get it. As far as I'm concerned, I'm fine with that. Because my mom had a banging body. And she was really tall and thin. And she had really thin wrists and ankles and a really nice torso. And my brother got all of that. And I took after my dad. So I'm like, you got the Alzheimer's. That's good. We're cool. Push.

• 49:31Adam Buxton?

  What's it like recording a song about that kind of thing, though? To try and wrangle those feelings? Because there's so much there. There's the pain of seeing someone you love go through that. Presumably, there's also some fear in there as well for your own future. I mean, I always think about that kind of thing.

• 49:49Speaker 03

  True. I think I take after my dad more. I think I'm gonna miss it. I think my brother is gonna get it.

• 49:56Speaker 03

  As far as I'm concerned, I'm fine with that. Because my mom had a banging body and she was really tall and thin and she had really thin wrists and ankles and a really nice torso. And my brother got all of that. And I took after my dad. So I'm like, you got the Alzheimer's, that's good. We're cool. Push.

• 50:19Adam Buxton?

  It's a very lovely song and it's very, yeah, it's it's of everything you would want from a song really. And um I admire it. I've been trying to write songs, but as a having a comedic background. It's so difficult to try and write anything serious, you know, and.

• 50:37Speaker 03

  I thought comedians had this core of pain that they worked off of humor. Wouldn't that core be helpful?

• 50:46Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, but but it's a question of accessing it without it being excruciatingly shit.

• 50:51Speaker 03

  Oh, it, oh, no, it's gonna be excruciatingly shit until you, it's gonna be bad first.

• 50:57Adam Buxton?

  Okay, right. You you just have to get through it.

• 50:59Speaker 03

  It it's gonna definitely be bad. I, everything I do is really bad at first and then it gets better. Like, it's like, oh, yeah, I see why that's, I'll put that away and never touch a guitar again. Okay.

• 51:10Adam Buxton?

  Really? You feel like that?

• 51:12Speaker 03

  Maybe not about guitar, but definitely about like writing.

• 51:16Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 51:16Speaker 03

  And, yeah.

• 51:35Adam Buxton?

  Hey, how you doing, podcast? Just stepping in to introduce this final short section of chat with Kim, which was recorded in the green room of the Rio Cinema in Dalston back in October of this year. Just after I had interviewed Kim on stage for an event to tie in with the release of her album. And by way of a small plastic thank you, I gave her my Commander Data figurine, which I'd had for many years and I thought that maybe it would find a good home with her. I got you a gift. I hope it's not too annoying to transport.

• 52:06Speaker 03

  Oh, I love it. What is this?

• 52:10Adam Buxton?

  It's my Commander Data doll.

• 52:11Speaker 03

  It's data. Is this your doll?

• 52:14Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, I've had it for years and years. But then, when you came over the other day and we were talking on the podcast, I saw you admiring it. And I don't get to meet too many Trekkies.

• 52:26Speaker 03

  This is from your personal collection?

• 52:28Adam Buxton?

  Yes.

• 52:29Speaker 03

  I'm honored.

• 52:30Adam Buxton?

  You're welcome.

• 52:31Speaker 03

  Oh, my god.

• 52:32Adam Buxton?

  And Commander Data was my favorite in the next generation, because I love robots.

• 52:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, do you really?

• 52:39Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, I do, yeah.

• 52:40Speaker 03

  Really?

• 52:40Adam Buxton?

  Do you?

• 52:41Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. But he was my, my Picard, I think, was mine.

• 52:45Adam Buxton?

  Oh, really?

• 52:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I like Picard.

• 52:47Adam Buxton?

  You're like a nice bald guy.

• 52:49Speaker 03

  Well, yeah.

• 52:50Adam Buxton?

  I'm gonna be bald soon.

• 52:51Speaker 03

  Really?

• 52:52Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 52:52Speaker 03

  That's exciting.

• 52:53Adam Buxton?

  I know.

• 52:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:54Adam Buxton?

  Give me a call.

• 52:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:59Adam Buxton?

  But I love Data because, you know, for a lot of men, a robot is a very relatable figure. Because it's like.

• 53:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:07Adam Buxton?

  Someone who's trying to.

• 53:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:09Adam Buxton?

  Find emotions and deal with emotions. That's a powerful allegory for being a man.

• 53:14Speaker 03

  It's true, actually. I never thought about it.

• 53:16Adam Buxton?

  That's true.

• 53:17Speaker 03

  But then you have Seven of Nine, Voyager.

• 53:20Adam Buxton?

  Oh, man.

• 53:21Speaker 03

  The Borg. I like her too.

• 53:23Adam Buxton?

  Too, great.

• 53:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like the captain again. I like Janeway best.

• 53:27Adam Buxton?

  Yes.

• 53:28Speaker 03

  That's my favorite.

• 53:29Adam Buxton?

  Really?

• 53:29Speaker 03

  Maybe I just like the captains.

• 53:30Adam Buxton?

  She's not a popular captain.

• 53:33Speaker 03

  In the, in the Trek universe?

• 53:34Adam Buxton?

  In the canon, yeah.

• 53:35Speaker 03

  I think you're wrong.

• 53:37Adam Buxton?

  Maybe.

• 53:37Speaker 03

  I think it's just like the Hillary bullshit. Do you know what I'm saying? What she, she shrieks, her voice is too high, she sounds yelly.

• 53:45Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, but.

• 53:45Speaker 03

  Fuck you.

• 53:46Adam Buxton?

  Janeway never.

• 53:47Speaker 03

  She's the captain.

• 53:48Adam Buxton?

  Janeway never dismissed the Kardashians as a basket of deplorables.

• 53:54Speaker 03

  They fucking are. Fuck them. They're horrible.

• 53:59Adam Buxton?

  The Kardashians. No, I meant.

• 54:01Speaker 03

  The Kardashians.

• 54:04Adam Buxton?

  The Kardashians or the Kardashians?

• 54:07Speaker 03

  The Kardashians are fine.

• 54:09Adam Buxton?

  Kardashians are fine, the Kardashians.

• 54:11Speaker 03

  The Kardashians.

• 54:13Adam Buxton?

  They're a basket of deplorables in the universe.

• 54:15Speaker 03

  I never, I always fast forwarded over the, um, what's Wolf?

• 54:21Adam Buxton?

  Wolf?

• 54:21Speaker 03

  The Klingon. I never liked the Klingon episodes.

• 54:24Adam Buxton?

  Really?

• 54:25Speaker 03

  No.

• 54:25Adam Buxton?

  Oh, I loved him.

• 54:26Speaker 03

  Too musky.

• 54:27Adam Buxton?

  Too musky?

• 54:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't like him.

• 54:29Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, he's definitely gonna be musky.

• 54:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:31Adam Buxton?

  And what about, what was her name, the empath? Deanna?

• 54:35Speaker 03

  Oh, Deanna.

• 54:36Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 54:36Speaker 03

  I liked her, you know, she was sort of a side character.

• 54:40Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 54:40Speaker 03

  I mean, she wasn't in every scene, she, you know, she was there, I liked her.

• 54:44Adam Buxton?

  She's quite a caricature of women, though, isn't she? Like, women like chocolate, women feel things.

• 54:50Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 54:51Adam Buxton?

  That's what the women are like.

• 54:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, she's all soft and round.

• 54:54Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 54:54Speaker 03

  And she's sweet and gentle.

• 54:57Adam Buxton?

  And she senses things.

• 54:58Speaker 03

  She does, yeah.

• 55:00Adam Buxton?

  What was your favorite episode?

• 55:01Speaker 03

  Of which one?

• 55:02Adam Buxton?

  Next Generation.

• 55:03Speaker 03

  Next Generation, there was one that's famous in the Breeders' Canon, and it's where Beverly, Josephine's favorite was Dr. Beverly Crusher, and she gets trapped in a bubble. Do you remember the bubble that she gets trapped in?

• 55:16Adam Buxton?

  No.

• 55:17Speaker 03

  It's not the most famous one, but it's one that we really liked, that-

• 55:20Adam Buxton?

  A literal bubble?

• 55:21Speaker 03

  She was trapped in some sort of-

• 55:23Adam Buxton?

  Temporal bubble.

• 55:24Speaker 03

  Temporal bubble, yeah.

• 55:25Adam Buxton?

  Probably temporal, so it's usually temporal.

• 55:26Speaker 03

  And that was the fa- that's famous, she's trapped in a bubble.

• 55:30Adam Buxton?

  Really?

• 55:30Speaker 03

  I think Josephine thought it spoke to her.

• 55:34Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 55:34Speaker 03

  Being in Ohio, you know how Josephine is, and she's, you know, got that Posh accent, and she's like, you know. Then she's there in Ohio with the deplorables, and she's having to stay there for weeks and weeks and weeks. I think she felt, and Dr. Crusher was her favorite.

• 55:50Adam Buxton?

  Right.

• 55:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:51Adam Buxton?

  Did you always-

• 55:52Speaker 03

  Maybe the red hair, maybe, I don't know.

• 55:53Adam Buxton?

  Did the Breeders sit around and watch Star Trek: Next Generation?

• 55:55Speaker 03

  I made everybody, the rehearsals stopped, and you can ask Josephine this, when- That when it started, when it was on, because it used to go on, you know, we were old enough that it was on air. We had to stop.

• 56:07Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 56:07Speaker 03

  We watched Next Generation and then we could resume rehearsals.

• 56:11Adam Buxton?

  That's right, because you were in prime Next Generation territory. So Last Splash comes out in ninety-three and, and I think around then you're getting some of the best Borg episodes, aren't you?

• 56:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:23Adam Buxton?

  Or maybe, maybe it's peaked by then.

• 56:25Speaker 03

  Ninety-two is when we were in working, that's when we would have been doing the Borg stuff.

• 56:28Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, that's right. It's a bit earlier, the Borg stuff, isn't it?

• 56:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:30Adam Buxton?

  I like the idea of you all sitting around watching Next Generation. I would have been, and I, as you were watching Star Trek: The Next Generation with the breeders, I was sitting at home listening to the Pixies.

• 56:43Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 56:44Adam Buxton?

  In the early nineties in my art college dorm room.

• 56:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:49Adam Buxton?

  And that final episode where they all sit around playing poker. Do you remember that one?

• 56:55Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't remember. If I saw it, I would probably go, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 56:59Adam Buxton?

  Do you remember they used to play poker?

• 57:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:01Adam Buxton?

  And Picard never really joined in the poker games.

• 57:05Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 57:05Adam Buxton?

  And then eventually in the final episode.

• 57:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:08Adam Buxton?

  He sits down and he says, "I should have done this a long time ago."

• 57:12Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 57:14Adam Buxton?

  It's very emotional. What a show. That was great.

• 57:19Speaker 03

  I loved it.

• 57:19Adam Buxton?

  Yeah. All right. I'm gonna let you go now. Anyway, take care of Commander Data and don't feel bad if you feel you have to leave it behind or give it away.

• 57:28Speaker 03

  No.

• 57:29Adam Buxton?

  Give it to a child.

• 57:37Adam Buxton?

  Wait.

• 57:37Speaker 05

  This is an ad for Squarespace. Okay, we'll return to the AI apocalypse in just a wee, wee moment, but first I wanted to talk about Squarespace. Do you know about Squarespace, Steve? Uh, yes, Monty. I think I might even be a little bit more tuned into modern tech, websites, et cetera, than you. I don't know, just guessing. Oh, Steve, I love this dynamic. I'm old and conservative and you're young and progressive and that's what makes the Newswind podcast such great listening. But yes, you're right. I must admit, I didn't know much about Squarespace, but because my new grumble book, Hell in a Handcart, is out this month. And I look forward to getting enraged by that. So I should hope. Em, um, um. Anyway, the publishers, Bluestar and Dogwhistle, made a beautiful website. For the book using Squarespace. I know, I got the newsletter that you sent out using Squarespace. And the website does look great.

• 58:20Speaker 05

  Videos of you airing your views, members areas for your mad fans. You've even got a merch store, I see. That's right, a Union Jack top hat is a big seller. But they constructed it all so fast with Squarespace. They did most of it over one lunchtime, Steve. Well, you wouldn't want to spend much longer on it, would you? Shut up, Steve. But here's the thing, anyone listening to this can start a free trial right now at Squarespace.com/Buxton and see how easy and versatile Squarespace is. And when they're ready to launch a new website or domain, they can save 10% off their first purchase by using the offer code BUCKSTON at checkout. Right, well, maybe I'll visit Squarespace.com/Buxton and start a new website just to refute all the nonsense in your new book. Oh, don't do that, Steve. I will. Oh, shut up, Steve. Uh, shut up. Now, back to more depressing matters on News Went.

• 59:05Adam Buxton?

  Continue.

• 59:26Adam Buxton?

  Hey, welcome back, podcasts. That was Kim Deal, little tiny bonus moment of Kim singing a little section from "Nobody Loves You More" while I was hooking up the mics for our podcast ramble, which I really enjoyed. It was great to meet Kim and I'm so grateful to her for making the time. Thank you as well to her team from 4AD, Annette and Billy especially, thank you very much for helping to sort everything out. If you go to my blog, adam-buxton.co.uk, I'll put a link in the description, you'll be able to see, along with the post for this episode, a picture of me and Kim and also

• 1:00:07Adam Buxton?

  a picture of my Commander Data doll, which originally, I think maybe we got sent back in Adam and Joe Show days when we were doing an item on figurine physiques, the changing world of action figure physiques, talking about the fact that when I had Star Wars figures as a youngster, they were all spindly and little. And then in the 90s, they all started to bulk up. You will also find on my blog post for this episode, a load of videos for music by Kim from various parts of her career, so you can immerse yourself if you're a Kim Deal fan, or if you want to find out more. Let me tell you, it's a wonderful world to explore.

• 1:00:50Adam Buxton?

  Okay, I've got to emerge from my shelter in the woods here and get back home fairly soon. But before I do, a handful of recommendations for uplifting movies. And before I share these with you, let me tell you, if you're a regular listener, that last week, I think it was Jessica Knappet recommending the film Vacation, not a remake, but a new installment in the Vacation Universe that came out in 2015, I think. Anyway, I was saying that it's got terrible reviews online. But we watched it last weekend, me and my whole family, and we really laughed. There's a Guardian review I came across that said, "You will laugh at this film, but you'll

• 1:01:30Adam Buxton?

  feel guilty." That's the Guardian all over for you, isn't it? I'm sorry, but you will have to feel guilty. I understand what they mean, but it is funny. I mean, you might watch it and just think, no, this is, this is terrible. But there's a lot of funny bits. There's definitely some revolting stuff in there. So don't go in if you're easily grossed out. So I'm going to go with Jessica Knappet and point you in the direction of that one, Vacation. But here's a couple of recommendations from friends of the podcast. Jane Goldman, screenwriter, and she knows her movies. Jane says, "My favorite uplifting movies that come to mind immediately would be Meet Me in St. Louis, or St. Louis, especially at Christmas." Haven't

• 1:02:15Adam Buxton?

  seen Meet Me in St. Louis. "Amelie," she says, "and Lars and the Real Girl, the latter being such an underrated gem that I think a lot of people probably avoided because it seems like it might be crass or silly, but it's actually an incredibly sweet and moving story about community and connection." And I watched that last night on Jane's recommendation and enjoyed it. It is a sweet movie directed by Craig Gillespie, and I think I did avoid it at the time because it seems like, oh, do I really wanna watch a film about a guy who goes out with a sex doll? It just seemed like Weekend at Bernie's or something, but it's not like that at all.

• 1:02:55Adam Buxton?

  Starring Ryan Gosling, Emily Mortimer, written by Nancy Oliver. That's Larsen the Real Girl. Thank you very much, though, Jane, for getting back to me with those recommendations. Now, finally, here's comedian Tim Key.

• 1:03:08Speaker 06

  Here's three cast iron bangers for you. Victoria, which is the German crime thriller, done in one shot. Then I would like Safety Last, Harold Lloyd with the clock stuff, but a lot more. And then the other one, I would say, well, Nuts in May, basically.

• 1:03:30Adam Buxton?

  There we go. Thank you very much, Tim.

• 1:03:34Adam Buxton?

  I've seen two of those. Safety Last, the Harold Lloyd film, amazing silent movie, directed by Fred C. Newmeyer and Sam Taylor, from nineteen twenty-three. It's a silent romantic comedy starring Harold Lloyd as a small-town boy who moves to the big city to make his fortune and impress his sweetheart. Working as a department store clerk, he devises a publicity stunt to draw customers by climbing across the building's exterior. Chaos ensues as the climb becomes increasingly perilous, culminating in the iconic scene where he dangles from a clock high above the city. And it is a tour de force of sight gags and crazy

• 1:04:17Adam Buxton?

  black-and-white slapstick madness fun. I've also seen Nuts in May, directed by Mike Lee. It's a classic. Nineteen seventy-six, especially in the comedy world. I think everyone certainly of my generation reveres that film and was heavily influenced by it in one way or another. Director Mike Lee's iconic tale of camping holidays and all the hazards involved. Keith, played by Roger Sloman, and Candice Marie, played by Alison Stedman, both of them amazing, arrive at a Dorset campground for ten nights of idyllic bliss.

• 1:04:54Adam Buxton?

  The other film that Tim recommended there, Victoria, directed by Sebastian Schipper from 2015, I have not seen. A thriller about a young Spanish woman in Berlin who meets a group of friends on a night out, only to get drawn into a dangerous bank robbery. It's one of those dangerous bank robberies, not a nice, safe one, that spirals out of control. Filmed in a single, continuous take, the film captures the raw intensity and emotional stakes of the unfolding chaos. That sounds stressful, but Tim finds that uplifting. So there you go, that's some more recommendations for uplifting movies. And you'll find trailers for all those movies on my blog. Thank you very much, Tim. Thanks, Jane. And thanks very much, once again, to Kim Deal.

• 1:05:39Adam Buxton?

  Thanks to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for his invaluable production support and conversation editing on this episode. Thanks to Helen Green, she does the beautiful artwork for the podcast. Thanks to everyone at Acast. But thanks most of all to you guys for sticking around. I appreciate it. Come here, let's have a hug.

• 1:06:03Adam Buxton?

  Until next time, please go carefully. And for what it's worth, I love you. Bye!