Brian Hoyer

Brian Hoyer is an environmental health consultant and founder of Shielded Healing, specializing in electromagnetic field (EMF) testing, shielding, and mitigation. As a certified geobiologist with a background in functional nutritional therapy, he focuses on identifying electrical, wireless, and magnetic field exposures and their potential effects on sleep, stress response, and overall physiology. His work includes grounding strategies and shielding techniques to reduce environmental electromagnetic interference in both existing homes and new construction. ------ Thank you to the sponsors that fuel our podcast and our team: Anthropic https://Claude.com/tetra ------ AG1 https://DrinkAG1.com/tetra ------ LMNT Electrolytes https://DrinkLMNT.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Squarespace https://Squarespace.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Lectio 365 https://Lectio365.com ------ Sign up to receive Tetragrammaton Transmissions https://www.tetragrammaton.com/join-newsletter

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Rick Rubin?

  Tetragrammaton.

• 0:23Speaker 01

  My wife, she was a zookeeper. And as a zookeeper, you're always trying to create habitats that the species you're caring for, they're a natural habitat. And you're not allowed to feed them foods that they wouldn't find in nature. And so if you apply that to humans, the same way, it's like, our environment in a zoo, if we're like, living in the modern world, is in front of a TV, slouching, like with, like, your head leaned over your device, like, that's not where humans came from. That's not where our ancestry came from. So I kind of applied that to, like, the world of food and nutrition, and then also to, like, okay, what we put our bodies into, not just what we're putting into our bodies, but what our bodies are being put into, our environment, should also be ancestral

• 1:08Speaker 01

  in order for us to have optimal health. Because I like to talk about respecting our biology and where we came from. So one of the themes for one of the companies I started a few years ago, The Shielding Shop, was technology that respects your biology.

• 1:25Rick Rubin?

  Tell me about your training.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  Well, actually, I had a, somebody from Austria that was at a naturopathic clinic. They just came to California and did a few trainings. And so I learned from them, they're like an environmental medicine clinic. And so they talk about EMF, geopathic stress, all the different kinds of environmental stressors that can really impact a person's body, you know? And they found that geopathic stress was a big issue, and that's just energy that comes up from the earth that can create interference patterns in the body, but also all the man-made stuff that's not natural. You know, my training even before that was nutritional therapy, so like, functional nutrition.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  So I had to practice doing that for probably five years before I got into the EMF stuff.

• 2:15Rick Rubin?

  What is EMF?

• 2:18Speaker 01

  EMF, it stands for electromagnetic fields, or some people say electromagnetic frequencies. There are natural types of EMF, and then there's also unnatural ones.

• 2:28Rick Rubin?

  What would be natural?

• 2:29Speaker 01

  Natural would be, we get EMF from light. Light is a type of EMF in the visible spectrum.

• 2:35Rick Rubin?

  So even sunlight?

• 2:36Speaker 01

  Even sunlight is a type of electromagnetic field or frequency in the visible spectrum. You know, magnetism is, is, is part of the lower frequency magnetic field. And, and from the earth, we have static DC, direct current magnetism and electricity. Those are natural types. And then there's also the ionizing type that you can get from the sun that the atmosphere filters out.

• 3:02Rick Rubin?

  What about lightning?

• 3:04Speaker 01

  Lightning creates a resonance around the earth called Schumann resonance. And that's a natural frequency that we also, you know, have had on this planet since storms started happening. So lightning creates a 7.83 hertz-ish, plus there's steps of resonance beyond that that go up to like 7.83 times 2, times 3, times 4. Those are the different hertz levels that you typically see just going around the earth from lightning striking. And you can also even hear, like, if you have an AM radio and there's a lightning storm, you can hear the crackles

• 3:42Rick Rubin?

  Wow.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  of radio frequency from the lightning just disrupting the, the atmosphere in the earth and causing an electrostatic frequency.

• 3:51Rick Rubin?

  Does that Schumann frequency resonance have a positive effect on humans?

• 3:57Speaker 01

  It's a positive effect because we've always had it. There have been studies that show like, if you don't have it, like if you're underground in a bunker and shielded from that resonance, that your circadian rhythm starts to be thrown off. And so, from what I understand, when astronauts go to space, they have to have a Schumann resonance generator onboard in order to continue to have normal function of their bodies, normal sleep patterns and rhythms and, and all of that. And then when they come back, there's a lot of physiological reasons why, you know, leaving the earth can cause problems for a person. But, you know, just the whole astronaut thing, them going out into space and then coming back, you can see that we are meant to be on this planet.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  This planet has known, and I like to say unknown, Characteristics about it that help our bodies to be in tune and to continue to be healthy.

• 4:55Rick Rubin?

  So what would be negative EMF?

• 5:00Speaker 01

  Negative typically is anything that's not natural, that's pulsed, that has been found to have a biological effect. And a lot of times, the pulsed frequencies are negative. The easiest example I give to people is imagine, like, the one EMF that we can perceive visibly is light. So if you're around a strobe light or flickering light, it's known to have a biological effect on your body. And neurological issues can be caused for a lot of people, like people with epilepsy, they can't be around strobing lights because it'll give their brain a seizure.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  And really, any person that's around strobing lights, it can cause similar stress on your brain. And I've thought about that ancestrally, like, what does that mean? And if you're around a strobe light, you kind of feel tense and more alert, paying attention to what's going on around you. And ancestrally, you know, our ancestors only would have had that strobing effect when they're either being chased by a predator in the forest with the sunlight going through the trees, it can kind of have a strobing effect, or you're chasing something. And so that's really the only time in nature where you kind of have a strobe-like effect

• 6:20Speaker 01

  is when you're in that fight-or-flight response. And so our body is kind of programmed into a cortisol response, a fight-or-flight response, where you're just alert and you're stressed, or you're, you know, stress can be a good thing when you're active, or it can be a bad thing.

• 6:38Rick Rubin?

  It seems that even in the mainstream, the strobing effects are now considered an issue because on television, you'll see warnings, the show has strobing effects.

• 6:48Speaker 01

  Totally, yeah. And I think more and more lighting companies are starting to understand this, too. I mean, the last time that you and I met was, I think, 2019. Like, even back then, you know, I was, you know, I was one of the few that I remember talking about flicker being an issue.

• 7:06Rick Rubin?

  I never heard anyone mention flicker before you.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, just talking about how that has a physiological effect on the body, and that can, that can be something that's really stressful for the brain.

• 7:17Rick Rubin?

  So which lights have flicker?

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Well, it's interesting because it depends. There's now a lot of the people that are designing the lights even with LEDs are noticing the flicker issue. And so that's evolved since 2019. When I first started talking about it to where nowadays like there's companies that are offering flicker-free options for LEDs.

• 7:42Rick Rubin?

  If we went to Home Depot and just bought a bunch of bulbs, would they likely flicker?

• 7:47Speaker 01

  I would say, you know, rough estimate, maybe 60 to 70% of them would flicker. So it's, we're still not there yet as far as where, you know, technology needs to go.

• 7:58Rick Rubin?

  But it's moving in a better direction.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, before you could go there and I could guarantee you like nine out of 10 of them are going to flicker. But it has to do either with the technology in the LED, the circuitry in the LED itself that causes a flicker, or just the fact that it's running off of pulsed electricity, which is another type of pulsed EMF that can cause biological effects in humans and animals. And so because it's running on pulsed electricity, the light is pulsing on and off with the pulses of electricity. And that's true even for incandescent and halogen light sources that are running on heat. They'll pulse and turn, turn the filament on or make the filament hotter when the pulse is on versus when the pulse is off.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  With the waveform, it will cool down in between those pulses. And it, it won't pulse as much as a strictly like a black and white on and off LED, but it will kind of sink back and have like a lower glow and then a bright glow.

• 9:00Rick Rubin?

  In America, how fast is the flicker rate?

• 9:04Speaker 01

  So it's 60 hertz, which will go on and off 120 times per second. And if you hear that on a flicker meter, it kind of has this low buzzing sound. And then there's some lights that are designed to not flicker as low with the electricity. They'll have a higher flicker rate. And on a flicker meter that has audio, you can hear it go up in tone. So it'll have a higher frequency, just like sound. And it will go up in tone on the meter when you're because it's translating what it's detecting with the light detector into a speaker. And then you can hear it on the speaker. And those are the best flicker meters. You can get ones that are visual that will show you the waveform. But I like to have both because when I'm going to someone's house and testing their lights,

• 9:49Speaker 01

  I'll show them what the waveform looks like. But then when you hear it, it's almost like you can hear how stressful that is to your nervous system and to your body. And it also kind of tells you more information.

• 10:00Rick Rubin?

  So it's like a fast clicking sound?

• 10:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, like a it can be a fast clicking sound or it'll actually go up in tone, like have a higher pitch sound, the higher frequency it is.

• 10:11Rick Rubin?

  Every time it goes on and off, your brain is doing a calculation to overcome the flicker.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. There's this mechanism with the eye. Actually, I learned it in my functional nutrition training where we'll take a flashlight, which has a constant beam of light, no flicker, and we'll shine it in someone's eye. And they do this at doctor's offices when they're looking in your eye. Usually, they're checking to see if your pupil will constrict. And when that constriction happens, if your pupil starts to pulse, that's a sign of adrenal fatigue. Or sometimes if it doesn't, if it's just totally dilated and then doesn't constrict at all, it's adrenal failure or there's something else more serious going on.

• 11:00Speaker 01

  And so the idea is that when you shine light into it, like imagine that you have you're under a flickering light, your pupil's constantly constricting and then getting bigger and constricting and then dilating. And over time, that actually will exhaust your adrenal glands because your eye is connected to your hypothalamus and pituitary gland in your brain. And there's this thing called the HPA axis, hypothalamus, pituitary, and adrenal axis, that, you know, all of those glands.

• 11:33Speaker 01

  Are connected together and they depend on each other for proper signaling and circadian rhythm. And it's a proper stress response, all of these things, because your brain has to communicate with the rest of your body in order to respond to stress. And so your body is perceiving this flicker as a stress and your eye is constantly working. And sometimes you won't even see the flicker, it'll be an imperceptible flicker, because your eye is made with really fast-acting cells. And the brain isn't fast enough to respond, but your eyes are constantly trying to adjust to it. So that's what can cause that fatigue in that HPA axis, that whole system.

• 12:13Rick Rubin?

  So imagine that 120 per second flicker powering our lives has other impact beyond just the light.

• 12:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. The fact that it can cause that stress response, it can raise your cortisol, which can lower your melatonin. And that's separate from the spectrum of light, which I'm sure we'll talk about later. The flicker can just cause stress in and of itself, even if it is a so-called good frequency or more natural frequency. It can still cause a stress response and a cortisol response in the body. Just it not being natural and a good source of light, that causes stress in and of itself too, and can throw your body's circadian rhythm off. It can just feel different, too. You go into a room and there's flickering lights, a lot of people get headaches.

• 13:02Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Like they've been in an office environment, or there's a certain store, they just don't like the lighting, they go in there like, I don't know what it is. The spectrum's okay, it's warm lights, but it just feels off to me, or I get a headache every time I go in there. And it's like that with light, it's like that with a lot of different types of EMFs that we test for, is you just go into space and something feels off. And then if you're like me and you have the equipment, you go in there and measure and you'll find it like within five or 10 minutes what the source is.

• 13:36Speaker 02

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• 15:06Speaker 02

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• 15:29Rick Rubin?

  Is all bad EMF from the flicker? Is that the biggest problem?

• 15:36Speaker 01

  It's the flicker, the pulsing, and then also the chaotic waveform that you can see on electrical instruments like an oscilloscope or a spectrum analyzer. You can see that the wave looks choppy. It looks different. It's rhythmic. And in nature, you have things that slowly, like the sun, it slowly goes up and then the spectrum slowly changes. And then at sunset, it goes down and the spectrum slowly changes. And along that whole pathway of travel from one side of the horizon to the other, it's a constant beam of light with no flicker. And so that's what we get from nature, is things aren't drastically changing.

• 16:21Speaker 01

  Even with firelight, you can test, you can be like, oh, well, a candle flickers. But if you look at it on a flicker meter or a spectrum analyzer, or you hear it, it's way different than this pulsed frequency. So the chaotic pulsing, that's really the thing that the body's not used to. In nature, we're just used to consistency, DC energy from the earth. It's constant electrical flow. You get negative ions from the earth when you touch your bare feet to the earth and you're electrically connected to the earth or you're in the ocean. You can get negative ions, which have a positive effect ironically on the body. And it's all just a wave of good energy

• 17:06Speaker 01

  that you can get. Whereas these pulsed energies are foreign to the body and your body perceives it as stressful. Just like if you think about pulsed electricity, like if you have ever had electrodes connected to your body or with a defibrillator, they restart a heart. They pump like a big pulse of energy into your body and it causes this involuntary muscle contraction of the heart. Or with the electrodes, it does it for your muscles. And that stimulation will cause your body to contract, your muscles to contract. So on a low level, like at night, if you're sleeping around a bunch of AC, alternating current electricity, and you can actually literally test the voltage coming onto your body.

• 17:51Speaker 01

  That's all these micro contractions happening all night long while you're sleeping and causing your body to not get into a truly restful state that it's supposed to be in all night long.

• 18:03Rick Rubin?

  When you say sleeping around a bunch of AC, do you mean just the wires in the walls?

• 18:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:10Rick Rubin?

  Everywhere we go, there are AC wires in the walls. Most beds are against a wall that has AC in it.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 18:19Rick Rubin?

  So it's a constant issue that we deal with.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a constant issue that most people are, you know, dealing with. And it's not just that it's 60 hertz alternating electricity. There's also other frequencies that can ride on that waveform and cause what's like electromagnetic interference for the body. So you're a great person to talk to about this because one of the things you do with recording is you gotta make sure you have a clean ground. You gotta make sure that your environment, your recording environment, is very clean. So you get a nice, the nice sound that you want. So a lot of the products that are out there are designed to protect the sound quality. A lot of the recording products out there and even

• 19:05Speaker 01

  power cables, they come shielded. They're shielding that, they're protecting the signal or the recording device from having any electromagnetic interference or radio frequency interference. And we're treating these electronics like very precious things, which they, which they are when you're recording beautiful music. But, you know, I, I look at it as treating your body in a similar way.

• 19:29Rick Rubin?

  I think it's done for the hospital equipment.

• 19:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, anytime that there's high stakes involved and it, and it really, the signal really matters. The highest quality products are always shielded and grounded, sometimes double shielded. So if we're thinking about like how your body runs on DC electricity.

• 19:49Speaker 01

  That's how I think about it with people and I explain it to people is that you need to be protecting your own electronics in your body and shielding your body from that because it's a very intricate and dynamic system that has just subtle frequencies, subtle communication from cell to cell, from neuron to neuron. And there's all sorts of different ways that are known and unknown in the body. We're always discovering something new every single day in the medical field about how the body works, how the brain works. And you know, the overall philosophy I have with everything that I do from an EMF perspective

• 20:31Speaker 01

  is just trying to recreate a more ancestral environment for people so that we can tap into some of these dormant healing responses that we don't even know about. But we see real results with people who track their sleep, who track their nervous system, their brainwaves, and we see things calm down. We see, we see people get deeper sleep, more REM, when they're in that more protected environment where their bedroom's shielded from radio frequency, wireless radiation, and the 60 hertz AC. And we got, we have them in a low magnetic field environment so that there's not anything that's impacting them that shouldn't be there.

• 21:14Rick Rubin?

  So what I'm hearing you saying is that there's a delicate electric system in our body, and these heavier electric systems from around us can throw off those natural systems. Is that right?

• 21:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's correct.

• 21:30Rick Rubin?

  Okay. When did we first learn about the downside of external powerful fields?

• 21:38Speaker 01

  Well, it first started in the late 1800s when Nikolai Tesla created the AC electricity. There's a book called The Invisible Rainbow where the author kind of goes through the whole history of electricity and how it was introduced. And in that book, they talk about how like even before we had pulsing electricity, there were instances of people in throughout history who got sick during lightning storms.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  And so even those pulses of electricity that were natural, were causing symptoms in some people. Some people get a sore leg before a storm comes. And so our bodies are very in tune with the natural environment, even when there's some disruption in the natural environment, that's some kind of interference. You know, after the introduction of electricity, it took about thirty or forty years before it became real widespread. But then, in around the thirties and forties, we had a lot going on in our world. Industrialization, new chemicals that were coming in, into like, be more common in our everyday life. It's really hard, when you introduce so many new things, to blame it all on one thing.

• 22:49Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  But one of the things that we did have happen was electrification. And there's a great book called Dirty Electricity, where there's this doctor, he's an epidemiologist, someone who studies large populations and sees patterns in those populations. And the people that first got electricity, he documents in that book, like different cancers, fertility issues, and things like that, that happened in the areas, the pockets where we introduced electricity first.

• 23:21Rick Rubin?

  Are some people more vulnerable to it than others?

• 23:25Speaker 01

  I think in general, there's always gonna be vulnerable populations in any, you know, group that you're studying. But what I would say is that children are definitely a more vulnerable population, just simply because of their physiology and their anatomy. Their brains are thinner, like, it's easier to penetrate into the brain. And then just people who are generally sicker, they have more oxidative damage that's happened and taken a toll on their body. And that's one of the main mechanisms of action, is that EMFs, they don't have to be ionizing to cause physiological damage.

• 24:05Rick Rubin?

  I don't know what that means.

• 24:07Speaker 01

  So ionizing is typically, a physicist will say, ionizing radiation is this, this type of radiation needs to have enough power to move an electron off of its space. And that's the only way that EMFs can do damage. That's the traditional viewpoint. But, it's not true.

• 24:29Speaker 01

  It's the only way that ionization can do damage to a cell. But we have to define damage. And I like to think of things more in terms of like, what's optimal? And if something is suboptimal and it's causing some kind of deviation from normal that leads to something that can cause damage, then I think that's causing damage by default. And so what happens is when voltage hits a cell, every cell has these little gates on them called voltage gates. And when that energy hits the cell that is a pulsed voltage,

• 25:11Speaker 01

  it opens the gate and lets calcium or different minerals flood into the cell. And it interacts with nitric oxide and superoxide, these different chemicals in the cell, and creates oxidative stress with this molecule that will be created called peroxynitrite. And that's basically a free radical. We hear about oxidative stress. When you oxidate something, you're making it age. And so you're aging your cells more and more the more oxidative stress that you have. And so EMFs have been known and studied to cause this type of oxidative stress. And every cell in your body has these voltage gated channels.

• 25:55Speaker 01

  And they're concentrated in the heart and in the brain. And you see in a lot of the literature, what are some of the main issues we're having in modern day? We're having cardiac issues. We're having brain issues with Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, neurological stress, autism, those types of things.

• 26:14Rick Rubin?

  How many homes have you looked at and made suggestions for how to repair them?

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Well, when I first started, I was doing this alone. And for about two years, over those first two years, in 2016 and 17, I'd say maybe three years, 18, I first tested maybe a thousand homes those three years. And then I started training other people. So I have a team of about five people. We travel all over the United States and do testing, sometimes in Canada, sometimes in Mexico. And all together as a company, I think we've probably tested over 5,000 homes.

• 26:52Rick Rubin?

  In 90% of these 5,000 homes, do you find the same problems? Or there's some issues that are like, almost every home has this issue?

• 27:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, definitely. There's very similar issues in most homes. You could almost put them into different categories as you test. When you go in, you don't know what's there until you start opening the Pelican case and pulling out all the equipment and testing. But a lot of times, we can tell what we're gonna find based on the symptoms.

• 27:22Rick Rubin?

  Just experience?

• 27:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, just on the experience visually looking and seeing like how close a property is to a power station or power lines or what neighborhood it's in now. I've started to be able to tell from that, like, oh, they're gonna have this issue because we know these towers, these cell phone towers are on that hill over there. Or they're in the neighborhood that's close to where we've detected issues with ground loops in the neighborhood that cause large magnetic fields. And so, just like if you have a ground loop when you're recording, there's gonna be a buzzing sound. That buzzing is coming from an imbalance in the ground. And you have to fix that with a ground loop isolator or something to get that buzzing to stop.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  That buzzing is actually a magnetic field that you have to stop from looping around and going a direction that you don't want it to go. And so, we find that in whole neighborhoods where the cable companies come in and they've grounded something incorrectly. And we have to put in ground loop isolators in strategic locations in order to stop the whole neighborhood from having magnetic fields. Like a typical reading we would get, background level is 0.2 milligauss of AC magnetic field.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  And some neighborhoods are in 10 to 15 milligauss range.

• 28:42Rick Rubin?

  So five times to 10 times.

• 28:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. And there's studies even endorsed by the World Health Organization that talk about 0.9 to 3 milligauss being in the range where you start to get childhood leukemia elevation in those ranges from 0.9 all the way up to 3 to 4 milligauss.

• 29:02Rick Rubin?

  Other than your testing, when you buy a new house and do an inspection, these are not things that are normally tested for, is that correct?

• 29:12Speaker 01

  That's correct. I mean, there are a few things that a normal inspector would find that just by happenstance, just by chance, with things like wiring errors. So a lot of the things that we find in homes, if there's a wiring error, many times that will cause a magnetic field issue just because of the energy of the current on the circuit going in the wrong direction back to the panel. So it's not canceling out the magnetic field. Everything with the electrical system and the way the National Electric Hood talks about things, you're supposed to have balanced loads, balanced energy on all the circuits in your house. And a lot of times that doesn't happen. If there's something that's done incorrectly

• 29:56Speaker 01

  or there's a loose screw somewhere, the energy will take the path of least resistance to go back. And sometimes that path of least resistance is through a ground wire, through another circuit. And that is technically a wiring error, a code violation. And we're fixing those with electricians all the time when we go into people's homes.

• 30:17Rick Rubin?

  Tell me about grounding in general. How does it work systemically?

• 30:22Speaker 01

  So grounding and earthing, I kind of talk about them in two different ways because there's grounding for therapy or earthing for therapy.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  And that's good. That's when you're connected to the earth. You're receiving the constant energy, the DC energy, negative ions.

• 30:40Rick Rubin?

  Barefoot on the ground.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  Yep, barefoot on the ground, in conductive ocean water. Even if you're on dry dirt, you can throw some water on it. You can literally detect it with a meter that you're getting DC electrons, like current, through the earth, onto your body. So that's one thing. That's beneficial. And then, the other part of it is that when you do ground something or earth it, and you're around AC electricity, the AC electricity is actually attracted to the ground. It will go through the ground, through your body, if you're grounded, to go back to the ground.

• 31:18Rick Rubin?

  Is that a bad thing?

• 31:20Speaker 01

  It's not a natural thing because AC electricity is not something that is native to this planet. So, I don't like it. If the voltage and current is high enough, you get electrocuted in those situations. So imagine being grounded and reaching up and touching a live electrical wire or the power lines or something. That is bad for the body, obviously.

• 31:42Rick Rubin?

  Yeah, sometimes it's recommended in an electrical storm to maybe go into your car where there are rubber tires.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, rubber tires, so you're insulated from the earth. So that way, if lightning strikes your metal car, it goes around the outside and it doesn't electrocute you. So you're basically in what's called a Faraday cage in that situation.

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• 34:25Rick Rubin?

  What is dirty electricity?

• 34:27Speaker 01

  So dirty electricity is like electromagnetic interference on your electrical lines. And that can cause even more chaos in the nervous system. There are studies by a Dr. Magda Havis around dirty electricity and blood sugar regulation, where they had people going on these treadmills that actually produced a lot of dirty electricity and it raised their blood sugar much more than just normal walking. And then they installed filters to actually filter out the dirty electricity and the phenomenon disappeared. And so, you know, I tell people a lot of times, according to that study and personal experience in thousands of homes, people who have had blood sugar issues, is that

• 35:12Speaker 01

  like, if you have dirty electricity in your house, it's kind of like you're constantly dripping donuts into your system. And it's not good. It can raise your cortisol, which then raises your blood sugar and can cause a phenomenon that's very similar to eating a donut.

• 35:30Rick Rubin?

  What are all the different tests that you do? Walk me through the different tests.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  Well, we test for all different types of EMF, mainly man-made sources. So, we like to start with light, because that's the visible spectrum. A lot of times, we'll take slow motion video of people's living space. And so, I've got in my Google Photos, probably thousands upon thousands of slow motion videos of clients' homes, where we've tested their lights and you just see the slow motion video, you can see the lights flicker. And so, that's one of the things we test for, is the lights, not only the flicker, but also the spectrum. And we want to create a balanced environment in the home, where we have a good amount, actually, of blue light, visible light in the morning.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  But it has to be balanced with infrared. Just like during the daytime, you get blue light from the sun and the sky and a full spectrum of visible light. But you also are always getting infrared at the same time that you're getting that blue light and visible light. And that gives your body a signal to produce serotonin during the day, which then, once the sun goes down and hopefully your lights in the house are dimming or going off, all that serotonin that you've built up from that visible light starts to turn into melatonin. And that puts you to sleep faster and deeper and helps your body detox better at night, especially your brain.

• 37:00Rick Rubin?

  So better light during the day has a good effect on your ability to sleep that night?

• 37:06Speaker 01

  That's correct, yeah. And there's, there's many, many studies that show that. And if you just think about nature or just your own experience when you're on vacation camping or going somewhere that's really, really natural, where you're outside a lot, especially if you're visiting a place like Hawaii or having a tropical vacation, you spend a lot of time outdoors in the sun. And then if you're in that environment and you're camping at night, you don't have another light source. You just go to, tend to go to bed earlier and you sleep deeper. And there's many times when I've been camping, it's not just about we're away from everything, there's no EMF. It's that we've been outside and getting light all day. And then at night it gets dark and the only light you have really is campfire that doesn't have any blue light in it

• 37:51Speaker 01

  that stimulates a cortisol reaction that lowers your melatonin and stops your melatonin production. If you have blue light, the firelight doesn't have that blue light in it. So you just have, have that and that's continues to help you calm down and wind down. And yeah, the lighting is, is a huge thing and we always test that first because when people hear about EMF, they tend to be very skeptical of what we're doing. Cause there's these invisible stressors.

• 38:21Speaker 01

  And so we try to make them visible first by testing light and showing you, okay, this is what light is doing to you. And then we move on to other types of frequencies that we test, like wireless frequencies. So that's like your Wi-Fi router, your cellphone, all the Internet of Things gadgets and Bluetooth things you have around your house. We're testing all of those sources in a home. We're testing the cellphone towers that are penetrating your home, radio towers, television towers. There's all these invisible frequencies flowing through the air. And we have meters where we can test these. And also you can hear what they sound like on this equipment. And that kind of opens people up to, oh, my gosh, I didn't even know this was happening in my house.

• 39:05Speaker 01

  And I've got a Wi-Fi router right next to my head underneath my bed when I'm sleeping. There's a lot of people that actually have that, if you can believe it.

• 39:14Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  We're not even using that at night. And so we have them unplug that. Often people will report that they sleep better immediately. Certain symptoms start to dissipate right away. Some of the most drastic changes we've had is when we're testing, we'll fully shield a bedroom with either shielding paint or a canopy that's got this silver lining in it. And we've had a few people who have, women who have even gotten off of their thyroid medication within a week or so of

• 39:44Rick Rubin?

  Wow, quick.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  of doing this, simply because you're removing a stress, something that was really stressing their body and causing inflammation that was leading to a flare up for their autoimmune tendencies.

• 39:58Rick Rubin?

  What's interesting about these things is that the stress may seem low level, but because it's constant, it ends up being really profound.

• 40:06Speaker 01

  Especially with sleep. And that's where we really focus a lot of our time and energy on is the sleeping environment. There's so many things we can do for our health. But if you think about what does your body do to recover? It's always sleep. Sleep's the number one time your brain is detoxing. Your body's going through these cycles of maintenance at night while you're sleeping. Your brain is resetting. A lot of brain science shows how important sleep is to your brain recovery every single day. That's your body's number one biohack. It really is just sleep in and of itself. So anything we can do to optimize sleep and the bedroom environment.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  Is like paramount because that's the number one healing time. But also, it's also a huge chunk of your life. If you think about it, if you start from a baby and you live until you're 100 years old, you spend about a third of your life, so that's 33 years in the same spot. And that's either gonna be a place that's healing you, or not helping at all, or harming you even. And so, if we can make that a place that heals people, then that's when you can really compound the results over time, is you have more and more time of healing throughout your life, every single day. And also with, I have four kids and one more on the way.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  With kids, a lot of times, it's really hard to get them to eat what you want them to eat, what you know is good for them, or to take the supplements, or do the therapies and things like that. But if you make their room a safe place, that's a healing place, it's 100% compliance. They just go in there, they sleep, and you don't even have to think about it. It's 100% compliance for anybody that takes that step to make that a healing space. Is you're automatically getting it just by going in there and being protected from the wireless, from the electric fields, from the magnetic fields, and from the dirty electricity. And then during the day, we're making sure the lighting is optimized for day and night.

• 42:19Rick Rubin?

  How are the conditions different in a rural place versus a big city?

• 42:26Speaker 01

  It can be pretty drastic. Even places that are more rural, you still have to deal with the house wiring because everybody's got electricity. So that's usually always, always pretty much the same. In the big city, a lot of times, you're squished together with a bunch of other people living around you that are all using their devices. And so you, a lot of times if you're in an apartment complex or a condo, you have to deal with everyone else's Wi-Fi radiation. You also have to deal with them all using their cell phones and their microwaves and, and all of these different things. And if their, if their unit has a wiring error, sometimes you can have all the wiring in your condo or your apartment perfect,

• 43:08Speaker 01

  but the neighbor has an issue and that can penetrate into your living space. So we've had some customers, some clients where we've fixed everything in their house. We don't know if it's coming for sure from your unit or the unit next to you, but we'll get it as low as we can. And then we just kind of have to live with that. And then there's some things that we recommend that they do to help their body deal with that stress. But living in the city presents more problems just because you have more electricity, more connectivity. All the telecom industries are competing for better signals. And there's more signals. So you can feel it. A lot of you can feel it when you go into the city,

• 43:53Speaker 01

  but you can also see it on the, on the equipment when we're measuring.

• 43:56Rick Rubin?

  Are there ever cases where there's an electrical problem? You can't fix the electrical problem, but there's something else you can do that mitigates the problem?

• 44:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, so the first thing that we do is we try to see if we can remove it or replace the, the problem. And by that, you know, a good example would be like, okay, someone has a CPAP machine and it's plugged in. They have to use it at night. We'll replace the cable on their machine with a shielded cable. And that makes it so that there's not as much electricity coming to their body.

• 44:29Rick Rubin?

  And you can test that and see that that's the case?

• 44:31Speaker 01

  Yep, can see that that's the case if, if that's a problem. So that'd be something where we can just replace some cables. We do that in people's offices all the time. There, you know, a few months ago, I tested Dr. Pampa's desk at his house. And his voltage was over 5.5 volts, 5,500 millivolts. After we replaced everything with shielded cables and shielded power strip and everything, even lamps on the desk can cause electricity coming onto the body. We got that down to below 300 millivolts.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  So that's like a huge reduction. And that's without changing the wiring in the walls. Yes, correct. That was just external. Now, if we wanted to get it all the way down to zero, we could. But we might have to paint the back wall and ground it. And then also like put a grounding mat under the floor of where he's sitting. And that would block the rest of whatever is coming in. So with electricity, we can usually get that all the way down to 0.000 on your body. So you're not exposed to any of that, you know? And I'm always developing more products. I probably got like 30 in queue right now of things that we commonly see in people's homes. There was just like, okay, there's no solution for this, so we have to create one.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  And so we've created different types of power cords. Anything in the office that can be shielded and grounded. We have that, you know, we're developing those if we don't have them yet. But number one is replacing and removing the original. And then if you can't do that, then we go to either filtering or shielding. So with dirty electricity, we talk about filtering those frequencies out. Usually, there's several different companies we use. We use Stetzer filters or Greenwave filters. Or there's a company called Satic USA, and they have whole house filters. We usually start with a whole house filter. And what that does is it takes the messy, dirty electricity and the chaotic sine wave.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  If you're an electrical engineer, you'll often notice a chaotic sine wave on your main AC electricity. And it cleans it up. So it makes it so the electricity runs more smoothly. It'll do what's called power factor correction, which helps everything run more efficiently. And then it'll also help to get rid of that noise that's on the line. And that improves the quality of the electricity, but also it lowers the amount of stress that it can cause you when you're exposed to that electricity.

• 47:08Rick Rubin?

  And I imagine all the machines that are plugged in probably last longer and work better.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that's one of the things that some of the companies claim. And I would agree with that, that if it's, if you've got a cleaner power source.

• 47:21Rick Rubin?

  Like better fuel in your car, it'll run better.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 47:25Rick Rubin?

  Makes sense.

• 47:26Speaker 01

  So filtering the dirty electricity, that's one thing. Or you can block the whole 60 hertz.

• 47:31Rick Rubin?

  If you do a whole house filter, would that happen at the meter? Where would that happen?

• 47:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, the main panel is where, right where the electricity comes in. You want to, you want to filter it as close to the source of dirty electricity as possible. So a lot of times the electricity just in general in an area coming from the electric company is dirty, or it's dirty because you have solar panels, or your neighbor has, has solar panels with inverters that are causing a lot of this energy to come on to your whole electrical system.

• 48:02Rick Rubin?

  Do solar panels always cause that, or no?

• 48:05Speaker 01

  There are a few companies that we've tested that are really good with their inverters. They've got better technology to mitigate the problem with most inverters. We've measured in multiple homes and it's like almost nothing that it, that it causes. But just about every other one that we've tested has had issues with this. There's different units of measurement with dirty electricity. There's, if you're using a Steitzerizer meter to measure, it's gram-Stetzer units. If you're using line EMI meter, or a green wave meter, or a SADC meter, it's millivolts. So it's the millivolts of the amount of other frequencies besides 60 hertz that are on that system.

• 48:48Speaker 01

  And we like that number to be below 80 ideally. And sometimes with inverter or solar system, it's going above 2000. Sometimes it just pegs the meter completely to the top. And that's running off of battery or running off of just the inverter with the solar going during the day.

• 49:07Rick Rubin?

  You mentioned blocking the 60.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:11Rick Rubin?

  How do you do that?

• 49:12Speaker 01

  That you just do with anything conductive. So you ground the conductive material. And we like to use paint, a carbon based paint.

• 49:21Rick Rubin?

  Better than a copper wire?

• 49:22Speaker 01

  We'll use the copper wire to actually ground the paint eventually. We have a whole system where we'll do the carbon paint on the walls. Most people have walls that can be painted. Or if you have paneling, you might need to take the paneling down and then put something behind it. If you don't want to paint the paneling. And we have copper meshes that we use. We have carbon meshes that we use that are fiberglass and painted with conductive paint. And then there's also just the paint and then the grounding tape. So we'll have the grounding tape that'll ground the paint or the mesh or whatever it is that we're using. And then that'll go into the equipment grounding conductor for the home. So that your every home typically, especially new builds are supposed to have grounds now.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  And we just connect to that and that will dissipate the energy. So as that energy hits the ground, it just goes and drains out through the ground wire. And then doesn't come into the living space or onto your body. And that's how we can block that. And when you block the 60 hertz, it also blocks the dirty electricity because that's riding along the 60 hertz.

• 50:26Rick Rubin?

  I see.

• 50:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:28Rick Rubin?

  Have you worked with people for new construction to mitigate the issues before they begin?

• 50:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, so that's actually primarily what I've been doing the last three years. Is working with with a new construction. I've worked with a lot of private residential. That's mainly, that's maybe like 70% of what what we do as far as new builds and stuff. So it's kind of like I'm an EMF architect.

• 50:53Rick Rubin?

  I see.

• 50:53Speaker 01

  And lighting. So we'll, we'll design the circadian lighting. We'll design the whole electrical plan so that we're protecting the spaces that are the most important landing spots for people. And we've done it for, I'm probably doing like 50 or 60 of those consults right now in process. And some builds take longer than others. So there's some we've been working on for a few years. There's some we've just just started last week.

• 51:21Rick Rubin?

  Is it easier if you're starting from scratch than trying to fix an existing location?

• 51:27Speaker 01

  It can be, it depends on what the issues are when we find them. So we'll have an initial, we'll have a person, either myself or another person that I've trained, come out and test and see wherever we're at with things. But even with existing homes, as long as you're willing to do some remodeling, like the basic one is just pulling up floors. If we can get the grounding material underneath the floor, then any electrical that's coming up from the ground won't be able to penetrate into that room. And also it blocks the wireless. You'd be surprised how much of the wireless can seep in through the floor, even on the ground level. So we do like to, especially in city, urban environments,

• 52:10Speaker 01

  we like to get the floors done. Sometimes you can get away with not doing floors in more rural areas, but we do like to do the full shielding, even in existing homes.

• 52:23Rick Rubin?

  Have you ever gone anywhere where you look at a place for a new build and say, "I wouldn't build here"?

• 52:32Speaker 01

  Most of the time, I'm a more optimist with everything. And most of the time also, you're going to this place, they've already purchased it. And so you don't want to be the bearer of bad news for people. There have been a few instances where like, they bought something next to a power line. I do remember one customer where they got this land really cheap and there was huge power lines adjacent to the property. And they were just crossing their fingers, hoping that it wouldn't be an issue. That particular customer, they backed out of that deal and went with a different property and they're so glad that they did. Because there's really nothing you can do for that unless you're willing to spend a hundred thousand dollars in magnetic shielding, which is a whole different animal.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  Way harder to shield a magnetic field from power lines than it is to shield wireless or electricity.

• 53:22Rick Rubin?

  Being near power lines is always bad?

• 53:25Speaker 01

  Well, if they're the big ones, I would say. Like the big transmission lines that are like cutting through like hillsides, like knocking down trees to run these lines somewhere. If you're near those kind, then it's pretty much always bad within like 200 yards of them. You have to measure every time that you're considering property. And if you see those lines, that's something you definitely, that's a red flag. You want to get a meter out there and measure how much of the magnetism is actually, how far does it go out?

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• 55:36Rick Rubin?

  For things like wireless, whether it be Wi-Fi or cellular, could there be frequencies used that we do better with? Could they even be healing frequencies as opposed to hurting frequencies?

• 55:51Speaker 01

  That's a good question. So I've heard a lot of people talk about different types of frequencies that could be used for healing frequencies. I just haven't seen any that actually communicate the amount of data that we need to sustain the system that we've built around these chaotic frequencies. But I do think that they've done lots and lots of studies, many studies, on the different frequencies and what they can do to the human body. I think there are definitely frequencies we should avoid. I mean, at 915 megahertz, they use that in Europe to open the blood-brain barrier in rats to test different medicines. And we're using that frequency here all over. The smart meters

• 56:36Speaker 01

  that everybody has on their house that monitors their electricity, they have a pulse that goes out anywhere from one time a minute to like 30 times a minute. That's 915 megahertz.

• 56:48Rick Rubin?

  Wow.

• 56:49Speaker 01

  That very frequency that we use to open up the blood-brain barrier in studies. So like that one, I think we should avoid that frequency. And there's certain other frequencies that I think we could avoid and we could use other, you know, better frequencies that are less biologically active for us. But as far as beneficial, actually, I think we should be using light. Infrared is a beneficial light frequency. You know, people who are hard of hearing, they can use these infrared headphones. And it sends infrared light to communicate. You can hear through that. And they actually make stereo systems like that in cars for like infrared headphones in vehicles that will send infrared.

• 57:34Speaker 01

  And infrared is something we get naturally from the sun. And so it is a pulse frequency, but it's such a high frequency, it only penetrates a little bit and the irradiance or the power of it isn't as strong enough to penetrate, but we're getting a lot of that infrared from the sun.

• 57:49Rick Rubin?

  Could there be a Wi-Fi like system that was UV?

• 57:53Speaker 01

  There could be something, I know, I think UV, UV can be beneficial, but it can also be damaging to some to

• 58:02Rick Rubin?

  Infrared is

• 58:03Speaker 01

  Infrared would be preferential, I would think, yeah.

• 58:06Rick Rubin?

  And can it be done with infrared Wi-Fi, let's say?

• 58:09Speaker 01

  I would love to see that happen. That's one of, that's on my wish list of things to like create with somebody is something like that. There, there is Li-Fi.

• 58:17Rick Rubin?

  What's that?

• 58:18Speaker 01

  It's light Wi-Fi and they use light to communicate. Like with any new technology, I think no matter what, even if it is beneficial, we still should study it extensively to see what kind of effects it has. And there's some people in the health space who, who have like looked at Li-Fi and just think it might be terrible. And even that was happening with, with 5G with the fifth generation of wireless. A lot of people were concerned about millimeter waves and, and I, I am too, but there's this, I think, false sense of the higher the frequency, the worse it is for you. But higher frequency is just a different

• 58:58Speaker 01

  frequency. And it was almost like when 5G was coming out and the millimeter waves were being talked about a lot a few years ago, like in 2020, 2021, that it was like, this is way worse than what we already have. But in my experience and those of some of my mentors like Dr. Klinghart has been and is a huge mentor of mine. And he's one of the people who really pioneered the idea that EMF is a problem within the health practitioner world. We would say that 4G and 3G and 2G and 1G penetrate the human body. They, they travel farther, they're, they're, they have a

• 59:35Rick Rubin?

  Just as bad?

• 59:36Speaker 01

  Profound impact, just as bad, if not worse

• 59:39Rick Rubin?

  Than 5G?

• 59:40Speaker 01

  Than what the 5G was. The 5G is bad just because there's more frequencies and different and we haven't studied all the impact of everything all together. But as you go higher in frequency, that it penetrates less, it doesn't travel as far and you also get more data. If you're getting a signal from a millimeter wave signal, you get your data faster. You don't have to be exposed as long. And a lot of times, the technology is directed right at the person using it instead of blasting everybody all at the same time. So I think there's some advantages to using some of these higher frequencies just in the fact that it respects. If you don't want to use it, you're not exposed to it nearly as much as a person who wants to use it.

• 1:00:22Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:22Speaker 01

  I think that respects people more than like just blasting everybody, no matter if they're using it or not, even the animals and plants.

• 1:00:30Rick Rubin?

  If you have your cell phone on your body and you're not making a call, but you're connected, does that mean that the negative effects are there when your phone is on?

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, so if you're...

• 1:00:46Rick Rubin?

  If you're not on a phone call?

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  If you're not on a phone call and you still have bars on your phone.

• 1:00:51Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're still getting, your phone's still pulsing. Every, either a few seconds or every like 20 seconds about, it's pulsing and checking in on the tower and also updating your apps. If you turn your cellular data off on your phone.

• 1:01:08Rick Rubin?

  Or airplane mode?

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  Or airplane mode. Cellular data is the first step. That won't ping and update all the time. It might only do it like once a minute instead of like once every 20 seconds or maybe once every five minutes. They're always changing phones, so I don't know. Like last time I tested, it was like once every five minutes or something. But if you put it on airplane mode and make sure that your Wi-Fi and your Bluetooth are both off, completely off, not just grayed out on the iPhone, but black, then you can carry your phone around with you and you're not going to get any RF signal at all. There's no radio frequencies, no wireless radiation at all in that mode when you're on airplane mode.

• 1:01:51Rick Rubin?

  Most people leave their Wi-Fi and Bluetooth on all the time.

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:01:54Rick Rubin?

  And if they're not using them, are you still getting bombarded by those frequencies?

• 1:02:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, there are some routers you can get called eco Wi-Fi routers that only turn on when you're connected to them. But... Ninety nine point nine nine percent of other routers, besides that particular one, it's just bombarding you constantly, whether you're using the Wi-Fi or not.

• 1:02:22Rick Rubin?

  And does the eco Wi-Fi work as well as the non-eco Wi-Fi?

• 1:02:27Speaker 01

  It works for basic things just as well. And it depends. There's some eco Wi-Fi where it'll pulse once every second, instead of 10 times every second, like a normal Wi-Fi router or more. And that's like a way for it to be eco, is it's not giving you as much, as many pulses. The other way for it to be eco is that maybe it will pulse just as much, but it will only stay on when you're on. So that version can have theoretically just as much connectivity as like, okay, say you want to, you're doing a Zoom call and you want to make sure you're not choppy. So when it's on, it's on. But then when you disconnect, it'll shut off automatically after.

• 1:03:08Rick Rubin?

  And you have to disconnect. It won't shut off when you're not using it. You have to disconnect from it, is that correct?

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  I think that when it's not getting a ping from your computer, like you can shut Wi-Fi off on your computer. And that basically would be the disconnect, right? So like if you shut your Wi-Fi off on your computer, it stops pinging your router. And then I believe that's when it was shut off. But if you have another device connected to it from the house, I mean, I guess they're making even toasters now that have like Bluetooth on them. So if your toaster is still connected to it, then it would stay on.

• 1:03:43Rick Rubin?

  I see.

• 1:03:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:46Rick Rubin?

  Are there certain appliances that are particularly offending in terms of bad signal coming off them?

• 1:03:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, so one of the main appliances would be pretty obvious, the microwave. And what a lot of people don't realize is it's not just microwaves that are coming off of the microwave, which are also, you know, radio, a type of radio frequency that, you know, basically it just super concentrates into the middle of the microwave and heats up your food.

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  The microwave itself is fairly well shielded, but not nearly as shielded as you would think. Because if you actually take a meter that measures this type of radiation, you can detect the microwave up to, you know, I've been at homes where we've turned the microwave on and then we walk out into their yard and we can still detect the frequency from the microwave like 100 yards away.

• 1:04:42Rick Rubin?

  Wow. Okay, so microwave is a no-no.

• 1:04:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:45Rick Rubin?

  Any other?

• 1:04:46Speaker 01

  Well, pretty much any appliance while it's running, it's good not to be a certain distance from it. Anything that has a motor in it. So about four to five feet away from like dishwashers or fridges when they're on is really important. If you're sleeping on the other side of one of these appliances, especially a fridge.

• 1:05:07Rick Rubin?

  So in other words, if the fridge is on the wall behind the bedroom wall.

• 1:05:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:05:12Rick Rubin?

  That's bad.

• 1:05:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's bad. Especially if you have a child or someone who's ill. You might notice, you know, we've actually had multiple instances where someone's been sleeping on the other side and their child's not able to sleep very well. Or they have some chronic health issue that's going on. And they'll do something so simple as move the bed two, three feet and then.

• 1:05:36Rick Rubin?

  Off the wall.

• 1:05:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, off the wall or just to the side or rearrange the room so it's on the other side of the room, the bed is. And they'll resolve the health issue or the thing that was going on. But that's really important just because it's so simple to fix that. And, you know, even with the microwave, when it's running, it's not only got that microwave radiation, but it also has a magnetic field that goes about 10 to 15 feet out that you can measure. So before we were talking about in terms of milligauss, 0.2 is what we like to see in sleeping areas. That microwave, if you're standing right in front of it. Just a couple of feet away, when you turn it on,

• 1:06:19Speaker 01

  it's gonna go from 0.2 all the way up to about 30 milligauss. And that's not gonna dissipate until 15 feet out.

• 1:06:28Rick Rubin?

  How about induction stovetops?

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  Those are another big source of magnetic fields when they're on. And a lot of people ask us about those. We prefer like either gas with a good vent because we also don't like breathing in toxic air. Or the regular electric.

• 1:06:46Rick Rubin?

  Like the heating coil, I think it's called.

• 1:06:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, the heating coil, regular electric stove. Those are okay as well. And a lot of times, there's just a better place to stand, off to the side usually, a little bit. Usually, right in front of the stove, there's a field that'll come out about one to two feet on those electric stoves. But usually, when we come to someone's house, especially if they're sensitive, there's a lot of people, a surprising amount of people that are actually sensitive to EMF and different fields, and they can feel it and physically notice a difference being around something or not around something, or when Wi-Fi is on or off, or they're around a magnetic field. For them, we'll test their stove and say, okay, stand here while you cook.

• 1:07:28Rick Rubin?

  Yeah. Is there no version of wireless that's clean and safe?

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  Nothing in the radio frequency range that's natural. There's probably amounts that are safe. And the reason I say that is because probably six or seven years ago, I went to Green Bank, West Virginia. And people are like, what's so special about Green Bank, West Virginia? Well, they have this area there called a radio quiet zone. And they have this radio telescope for radio astronomy. And so there's a certain distance around this telescope where they can't have any interference from any wireless so that they can still be exploring space. And a lot of people don't know this, but a lot of the images we get from space aren't actually optical visual pictures.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  They're actually translations of that from radio frequencies that were subtle radio frequencies that we're getting from celestial bodies. Things way off in space somewhere, really, really far away. So this telescope is huge and it needs to be able to detect those subtle signals that are coming from space. And so people aren't allowed to have Wi-Fi on a certain distance from that telescope. And then also a certain distance out, they're not allowed to have any cellphone towers. And there's a ski mountain up there that has to only blast their towers a certain way so that it doesn't interfere with the telescope. And we're talking like a two mile radius for Wi-Fi and then multiple miles. I don't know, remember the exact distance, but.

• 1:09:02Rick Rubin?

  Wi-Fi can travel two miles?

• 1:09:04Speaker 01

  That's how delicate that that telescope is, is it can interfere with it.

• 1:09:08Rick Rubin?

  If it can pick it up, that means it's going there.

• 1:09:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. After I went there, I was like, man, I gotta research this some more. And I found this really old book that's out of print now. I can't even tell you the name of it. Something about changing universe. But he was documenting these radio telescopes and just talking about the history of them. And in one of the little paragraphs, I'll send it to you sometime. He talks about how they used a radio telescope and they found out that they could detect from four miles away, they could detect the human body giving off minute amounts of radio frequency. And then they also said that it gives off X-rays and like a full spectrum. And that's why I like to think about if your body subtly communicating

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  with a full spectrum of electromagnetic frequencies, even X-rays and gamma rays and radio frequency. And this telescope can can detect radio frequency in your human gut microbiome from four miles away. This book said, there's some subtle communications going on that we we don't even know about to this day. And things that are happening in the body that we don't understand yet. And so the idea that we're creating these frequencies that are quintillions of times more energy than what our bodies are subtly creating themselves, that's profound. No wonder this can have a biological effect and why when we shield a space and we see the profound effects

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  that it has on a person's life, and not only on people who are ill, but also people who are trying to optimize. We've done a lot of solutions for professional athletes, and they see profound effects for recovery with implementing some of these solutions. We're getting more and more of this radiation in our lives. And so in a lot of places, we're seeing a tipping point. I mean, there's this viral thing going around with San Francisco 49ers. I don't know if you saw it, where somebody actually went there to measure magnetic fields in their stadium, and the readings were like 10 to 12 milligauss or something like that, where they're training all the time. And these athletes are training at a really high level,

• 1:11:22Speaker 01

  so high that it's like teetering on, like their body could break if they do even one thing wrong. And the 49ers have been like injury after injury after injury the last few years. The viral claim that's out there is that it might be related to this magnetic field issue in the stadium. Wow. And I've had multiple doctors and people text me, and we're working with one of the NFL teams right now. And he's like, I want my team to be protected from this. Yeah. And so they're using that as a springboard to like, okay, let's see how we can actually optimize the recovery spaces. Because it's not that, like, there's a study that says it can cause this much soft tissue damage.

• 1:12:05Speaker 01

  But the fact that there is physiological evidence for it causing oxidative stress, any oxidative stress in the body can tip you over the edge to where you're more prone to injury, that is true. And so the more we can optimize our environment with anything, the more quality of life we get, the better we can perform, the better athletes can perform, the better we can just have more time enjoying our life here on this planet with this wonderful experience that we have.

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• 1:14:06Rick Rubin?

  Tell me about batteries and generators.

• 1:14:09Speaker 01

  So batteries actually are running off of DC. In general, they're not as biologically a problem for humans than something that's running off of normal electricity, like AC electricity.

• 1:14:24Rick Rubin?

  So even the battery that your solar panel attaches to would still be a DC battery?

• 1:14:30Speaker 01

  It would store it as DC. The issue with some of the solar systems is they'll store the energy as DC, but then they convert it back to AC, so you can use all of your AC appliances.

• 1:14:41Rick Rubin?

  And it's in the conversion is where the problem happens?

• 1:14:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, because they just... They call them transients or electromagnetic interference that happens with that conversion process. And they don't have the filters included in a lot of these systems to stop that from happening. They just dump it onto the neutral wire usually, which is part of your circuitry in the house, and then it shows up. In the electric field when you're when you're testing and that comes onto your body. So if they designed them better so that they would actually filter them, filter that energy out, then they wouldn't, it wouldn't show up when we're measuring an electric field coming off of a wall and the circuitry in the house.

• 1:15:22Rick Rubin?

  Tell me the difference in using a laptop when it's plugged in versus not.

• 1:15:26Speaker 01

  So that can depend, like the laptop will run off of a battery when it's unplugged. If you plug it in and the laptop is not, doesn't have a ground prong, a ground wire, and the laptop's not grounded, then that AC energy won't have anywhere to go but onto the metallic parts of the laptop and then onto your body. So it's better to either make sure your laptop is grounded and it has that third prong, or to just charge it and then use it without, yeah, an unplug.

• 1:16:00Rick Rubin?

  What's PEMF?

• 1:16:02Speaker 01

  PEMF is a type of pulse, it stands for pulsed electromagnetic frequencies.

• 1:16:08Rick Rubin?

  Sounds bad based on everything we're talking about.

• 1:16:10Speaker 01

  Right, yeah, it does. It can be bad, actually. Based on everything we're talking about, we're talking about frequencies that are pulsed, but they're not pulsed that way on purpose for a specific reason. There's some types of pulsed electromagnetic frequencies that they've tested that can be therapeutic in certain circumstances. So Dr. Robert O. Becker, he's the pioneer in this, he studied this in the 60s, I believe, and 70s, and he did many, many studies and demonstrations about how you can use different pulsed electromagnetic frequencies to regrow bone and tissue. And he started doing that, those experiments on salamanders and things like that.

• 1:16:56Speaker 01

  It's even an FDA-approved treatment now for bone density and bone growth is pulsed electromagnetic frequencies. So the issue that I've heard and what I'm concerned about with doing that type of treatment all the time is that it has the effect of growing bone and creating new cells, new bone cells and different tissues that can help to regrow tissues. But I've heard that, you know, people that have certain conditions are not recommended to use that because it can also grow bad cells. So like if you have cancer, it would be contraindicated for cancer to use that type of therapy. A lot of people are leaning towards cancer and they don't have a diagnosis and they might be using that therapy.

• 1:17:41Speaker 01

  So I've always told people and I've used that therapy with my kids when they break a bone. And we use it for a short period of time and then we stop using it. So if you're using it, it should, in my opinion, my non-medical opinion, is that you should use it for a specific purpose, for a reason, for a short period of time, but it shouldn't be something you're just using day after day just because the company that sold you it said that, hey, this is healthy for you all the time. And the filter I take that through is, is it ancestral? Is it something that our ancestors would have been exposed to all the time? If not, then it's probably not one of the foundational types of EMF that humans should be exposing themselves to.

• 1:18:25Speaker 01

  Because the foundational ones are sunlight, grounding in the earth and getting the earth's magnetic field. And those are the things that we should be getting consistently all the time and dosing those in abundance for ourselves.

• 1:18:41Rick Rubin?

  It sounds like erring on the side of more time outside solves most of the issues.

• 1:18:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, it gives you the foundational architecture from nature that humans need for the human body. And then the rest of the stuff is interference. So we minimize that as much as possible while we bring in the stuff that's like the main signal that we need to run our bodies, which is from the sun and from the earth.

• 1:19:11Rick Rubin?

  How did the phases of the moon affect us?

• 1:19:14Speaker 01

  So just like the tides, the phases of the moon cause more DC magnetism at certain times of the day or the, or certain parts of the month. So the reason that women get their cycles every month has to do with magnetism, and that's been studied. There's this old book, another one that I like getting out of print books. There's this other book that talks about, it had to do with the circadian clocks. It's an old book that's out of print now, but they had a study in there where they had mussels, like the mollusks, the mussels that they took from the ocean on the east coast of the United States, somewhere in like Massachusetts.

• 1:19:55Speaker 01

  They shipped them to Illinois, Evanston, Illinois, and they put them in salt water. And they started putting water on them, just like the tide was going in at the same time that they were in Boston. But then what happened was they noticed that they kept opening the same time, but when they took the water away, they changed to open as if the tide was coming up in Illinois. And so they were, their clock was based on the magnetism from the moon

• 1:20:28Speaker 01

  as if the tide was happening in Illinois. And it shifted from Boston to Illinois, even though the water was the same. So what they found out was that it wasn't the water that was the signal to these mussels.

• 1:20:39Rick Rubin?

  It was the moon.

• 1:20:40Speaker 01

  It was the magnetism from the moon. And so back to the core philosophy here is there's things that, that we don't know about.

• 1:20:49Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:50Speaker 01

  That we're discovering.

• 1:20:51Rick Rubin?

  We think it's reacting to the tides, but the tides are also a symptom.

• 1:20:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:20:57Rick Rubin?

  Of the moon.

• 1:20:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:00Rick Rubin?

  So you could change the symptom, but if the moon is still the moon, it doesn't react to the symptom.

• 1:21:06Speaker 01

  Right, yeah. So I think like with, with the moon, a lot of times we're not thinking about us, our physiology being related to it, but with women, it's obvious. There's also a lot of evidence that parasites, when there's a full moon, that's when parasites proliferate the most. And no matter who you are or where you're at, like, it's well-known that everybody has parasite infections of some sort, and they're part of the ecosystem, even in the human body. And whether they're good or bad, it depends on the person and where you're at with your health and the whole inner ecosystem of your own body. And a lot of the parasite cleansers that are out there, they'll tell you to start taking it the full dose on the full moon.

• 1:21:51Speaker 01

  That's because the parasites are connected with the magnetism. So to think that, as a man, you're not connected to the magnetism, that, to me, would be naive.

• 1:22:03Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:03Speaker 01

  You know, I think that we are connected to the magnetism from the moon and the tides and this planet in a way that sometimes we don't fully understand.

• 1:22:13Rick Rubin?

  If you were looking for a location to move to, what would be some of the things you would test and look at for picking a place to live?

• 1:22:22Speaker 01

  First, I would be looking at where the main power lines are going and what neighborhoods. And I would also be looking at the geography of the land. So typically, if you're looking in a place that's more coastal, if you're facing out toward the water, there's usually not much wireless radiation coming from the water, unless you can see the land across the way. There might be some signals coming in that instance. But usually, like, if you're on an island, like, there's not going to be any radio signals coming from that direction, out toward the ocean. And also, like, sometimes we'll tell people, like, that if you have a mountain behind you, you're pretty good, too, because the signals will usually either go over

• 1:23:07Speaker 01

  or they're just blocked by the mountain on the other side.

• 1:23:10Rick Rubin?

  So in some ways, the best version would be mountain behind you, ocean in front of you, and then you're protected.

• 1:23:16Speaker 01

  Right, yeah. In general, you're very protected that way. And I always recommend people to get an affordable Gauss meter. And that's just measures magnetic fields. So that's the thing that's the hardest to block from an EMF perspective is the magnetic fields. So if you're in a neighborhood that has issues, sometimes it's very hard to mitigate that. And you want to measure at the street and then go on to the property and see if it gets lower as you go on to the property. If it gets higher when you go on to the property, that's actually, it's not a good sign, I would say, but it's a better sign than it being high at the street and still high at the house.

• 1:23:58Speaker 01

  And the reason I say it's a better sign if it gets higher going toward the house than than just staying high the whole time is because if it's higher going toward the house, then that means there's something in the house that can be fixed. But if it's high at the street and continues to be high going on to your property where your house would be or wherever the house is, it's coming from the street.

• 1:24:18Rick Rubin?

  It's a neighborhood issue.

• 1:24:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a neighborhood issue and it's gonna be-

• 1:24:21Rick Rubin?

  Hard to fix or impossible to fix.

• 1:24:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, either hard or impossible. Sometimes you might have to work with the utility company, which is sketchy. They don't always work with you depending on the area. Or you have to work with the cable company who's got coax and ground loops and all sorts of electrical engineering gone wrong in those situations.

• 1:24:40Rick Rubin?

  If electric wires are going underground as opposed to above, is that better or no?

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  It tends to be better because the wires are usually closer together. And when the wires are closer together, they cancel out better. But it's not always the case because a lot of times the cable company will have an issue and they'll have the lines buried too. And that's more often if there's an issue in a neighborhood and there's magnetic fields, it's more often the coaxial cables for the cable companies that are the issue than the power lines themselves. But overhead power lines in the neighborhood aren't necessarily bad. It's only bad if there's- A cable company that's that's causing an issue, or if sometimes if you're living in a place like Florida,

• 1:25:29Speaker 01

  we see a lot of issues there because the wires that go into the transformers on the street sometimes will get corroded. And then the ground there is so conductive that it'll take the next path of least resistance and go through the ground there. And that can cause a ground loop issue, too, when the neutral wires to the transformers are either disconnected or corroded. And that's where the electrical company would need to get involved and test the transformer or multiple transformers in the neighborhood to dissipate that issue and take care of it. Tell me about electric cars. So, electric cars, I think they've been demonized in the EMF community a lot. And I can see why.

• 1:26:13Speaker 01

  But when you take real measurements, what I've found is that in the front seat, especially in like Teslas, it's about the same as a normal car. Is that true? That's interesting. Yeah. In the backseat, it's a different story because there's batteries back there. When those batteries have current flowing through them, then there's a lot more, a higher magnetism that's back there. All cars nowadays have wireless features and radar and all kinds of things like that. So from a wireless perspective, it's not really that much different either. It's just a matter of measuring and knowing based on your model. Like, there's different types of electric cars. There's hybrids.

• 1:26:58Speaker 01

  Know where the batteries are. Ask the manufacturer. Look up the specs online where the batteries are. And if you have a plug-in hybrid or, you know, we have a Toyota Highlander hybrid at home, and there's one spot in the backseat that's that's worse than the other side. Interesting. Because that's where the battery is. I have a Jeep four by E at home. And that's a plug-in hybrid. In the middle of the seats, that's where the batteries are. So I actually have magnetic shielding that I put on there. Two or three layers of magnetic shielding helps to dissipate that. What is magnetic shielding? They'll use magnetic shielding in MRI rooms with the magnetic resonance imaging. They'll use that to block the magnetic field to protect the people that are constantly, the workers that are constantly doing that.

• 1:27:43Speaker 01

  So there's special materials and layers of metals that technically they don't block. They just create it so that they direct the energy in a different direction. And they permeate one metal and then the other metal helps to reflect it a different direction. But there's materials we use from Germany and we stock them in the United States to block breaker panels and different issues in homes where like the design can't be changed and they still want to make that wall safe. There might be a fridge on the other side of a wall in a build that we're doing, but we'll be like, oh, we'll just put in three layers of magnetic shielding there.

• 1:28:24Speaker 01

  Or they have the electrical coming in on one side or there's a big Tesla wall there or something and we'll just totally use that material to block the magnetic field there. Whereas like a normal metal sheet won't do that. Like if you do steel or aluminum, some people think that those will work to block the magnetic field, but imagine you have like a fridge magnet and then you have a nail. Will it go right through the aluminum foil? Yeah, it will. So it's not really blocking that magnetic field. But this other material, if you have enough layers of it, it would actually block that magnetic field from coming through. It's a very specialized material. One of the materials is called Mu metal, M U metal, that they use for blocking magnetic fields, but that's a very special material.

• 1:29:09Speaker 01

  Are these ideas more mainstream in Germany? Oh, definitely. Yeah, the whole practice of measuring EMF came from Germany. Really? They call it bau biology over there, building biology, bau biology. And Germany and Austria. And then a lot of the research is also out of Russia, too. It's more common over there. Doctors are more accepting of it over there, of it as a factor in your health. And the whole idea of shielding a bedroom and completely encapsulating, that came, for me, it came from Dr. Klinghardt, who's from Germany. And he works with many patients who are like the sickest of the sick. They've been to like thirty different doctors and then they finally come and see him. And he helps them out with chronic infections, autoimmune diseases, brain issues,

• 1:29:54Speaker 01

  like all sorts of things. And one of his main foundational protocols is we have to shield the bedroom completely from wireless radiation and from electromagnetic interference to the body so that we can get good signaling and the body can finally have the environment to heal without being distracted from the healing.

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• 1:31:02Speaker 06

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• 1:32:34Rick Rubin?

  What are ley lines?

• 1:32:36Speaker 01

  Ley lines are also called geopathic stress. Some people would refer to them in the literature as telluric currents. There's differing conductivity in the Earth's crust, where different energies can flow.

• 1:32:51Rick Rubin?

  Is it like a grid?

• 1:32:52Speaker 01

  There's also the magnetic field of the Earth that creates a magnetic grid as well. And so if you have a magnetic field, what happens over time is all the conductive material will be attracted to those lines. Just like if you have the little iron shavings and a magnet that you're playing with as a kid, you can see that, oh my gosh, they all go into this line. Well, over time, with the Earth's magnetic field, you have the rock in the Earth's crust doing the same thing. It creates this magnetism that can change slightly over time, but there's more magnetism in some areas than other areas. And they found that just about every ancient culture has some tradition of these ley lines or geopathic stress.

• 1:33:42Speaker 01

  The Indian people from India, they have Vastu tradition. Chinese have Feng Shui. The Chinese tradition, they talk about how the the earth has meridians. And there's this practice called earth acupuncture, where they actually will stick a metal stake in the ground to change the energy or the the meridian of the earth. And in Feng Shui, they do that to move the energy in different directions so that it's more healthy in that area. And even the ancient Greeks and Romans, they used to have their livestock graze on land for a year before they would build there. And then they would check to see if the organs were healthy in the livestock. And if they were healthy, they would build there.

• 1:34:27Speaker 01

  If not, they would avoid that area. So there's there's big traditions. Even in the Native Americans from from America, they were concerned when the American settlers were building large metal structures in the grounds. There's just a lot of traditions around the globe that know that there's different energy feelings around the earth related to this this magnetism that that happens. And so being on on the more energetic spot, sometimes you could get sick. And back in ancient times, people would take that to mean that the gods were not happy with you living there, so they would move away from that area.

• 1:35:09Speaker 01

  And there's a lot of ideas and things that you can think of when it comes to that. But in general, like, we do test for some of those things when we come into someone's house and and make sure that their beds are located in a better location. And you can test it with dowsing, you can test it with a magnometer. We usually don't bring those with us when we test, but there is a scientific way to test, and there's a there's a way to test also with the dowsing rods.

• 1:35:37Rick Rubin?

  What about sleeping direction?

• 1:35:40Speaker 01

  Generally, what I recommend people to do, based on what I've read, is that if you're in the northern hemisphere, to sleep to the south, head to the south or east. So southeast is good. And then, the idea is that when your head is faced north, in the northern hemisphere, there's some studies that show more illness when you sleep that direction. Possibly because there's metals that are pulled up into the brain more when you're doing that.

• 1:36:13Rick Rubin?

  So you want your head away from the poles and towards the equator? Would that be right?

• 1:36:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 1:36:19Rick Rubin?

  Thoughts on grounding sheets?

• 1:36:22Speaker 01

  Grounding sheets can be good if your environment is mitigated from electric fields. If your environment is not mitigated from electric fields, then it's just like you're surrounded by electricity and you're the grounding rod.

• 1:36:35Rick Rubin?

  I see.

• 1:36:36Speaker 01

  So you're...

• 1:36:37Rick Rubin?

  So it can amplify the negative effect?

• 1:36:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's kind of like you're pulling all that energy through you and you're the shield. And that's not really what we want. We want you to not be exposed to that energy at all. And a lot of times, people will have you test a grounding sheet by... When you touch the grounding sheet, your body voltage goes down. But the only thing that does is it demonstrates that the energy's there. And then when you ground, the energy disappears from your meter, but it's still there. So basically, what it does is it reroutes that energy through your body to the ground, and it bypasses the equipment. And so, it shows on the equipment that the reading is lower, but the missing energy is just going through your body out to the ground.

• 1:37:24Rick Rubin?

  Is that necessarily worse than just getting it into your body?

• 1:37:29Speaker 01

  That's the conundrum. Is we get to where like, we're receiving good energy by grounding, the DC energy, but then there's also this interaction with the AC that we're exposed to. And so, is it better to to ground and route that through your body and out? Or is it better to just be exposed to that without grounding and still have the AC energy? So, I always tell people, just skip that question, go to the end and...

• 1:37:58Rick Rubin?

  Block the problem.

• 1:37:59Speaker 01

  Block the problem and then get the therapy.

• 1:38:01Rick Rubin?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:38:02Speaker 01

  That's the best of both.

• 1:38:03Rick Rubin?

  Do you prefer a mattress that has coils or no?

• 1:38:07Speaker 01

  No coils is typically better. And here's something interesting to ponder with this whole thing is the reason we normally say no coils is better is a lot of times in the manufacturing process, the coils in mattresses get magnetized with a static DC field. Just like when you're a kid in science class, they say, okay, take a magnet, rub a nail on it, and the nail becomes magnetized. Somehow, a lot of times that's happening with the springs in our mattresses during the manufacturing process. They become magnets because the machinery they're using to make the coils is a magnet. And so a lot of times the springs are magnetized. Even baby cribs, we've tested. The magnetism goes up.

• 1:38:50Speaker 01

  Take a compass, that's how we measure it, and the compass will spin or shift when you're going over the mattress. And that's not natural, it's not healthy. So we want to be telling our body that we're facing a certain direction. And when you have a different type of magnetic field there with the springs.

• 1:39:09Rick Rubin?

  Confuses it.

• 1:39:10Speaker 01

  It confuses your body. You're telling one part of your body that you're facing north, the other part of your body that you're facing east and south. And it's very confusing to the cells, and it's not something that our bodies have been used to. So that's an issue. The other issue is that the coils in the mattress can receive radio frequency signals, and you can actually measure that. And so it'll resonate that frequency out from the metallic springs. And then it also acts as an amplifier for any electric fields. If you're exposed to those in the room, it'll go on to that conductive material more easily, and then your body's more exposed to those as well. What we tell people is no metal in your mattress, no coils.

• 1:39:54Speaker 01

  And get something like an organic latex or wool mattress. And then no big metal beams under the bed frame. You can have little brackets or screws or things like that to put the bed together. But typically, we'll just try to avoid the long metal and the springs and everything. And then as far as grounding at night, this is the part that's kind of fascinating when you think about it. Because for a long time, I was in this space, thinking about grounding is good once you've mitigated everything. But really, when I stepped back and started questioning my own thought on that, well, what's the ancestral perspective on grounding at night? And really, when I thought about it, I was like, okay, what did they do? What did they sleep on?

• 1:40:36Speaker 01

  Okay, well, they slept on animal skins and maybe some plant matter. And it wasn't wet ever ancestrally. They didn't sleep on wet surfaces because that would cause illness. So they're insulated from the earth at night. But during the day is when you get most, you're supposed to get most of your grounding. You're walking around barefoot. You're going in the ocean. You're going on the dewy grass in the morning. So if you're trying to go for this more ancestral perspective of respecting our biology and the rhythms of our physiology, I think actually getting a lot of grounding in during the day makes sense, a lot of input, negative ions during the day. And then insulating yourself at night is actually good and more ancestral.

• 1:41:22Rick Rubin?

  Why do you think Western medicine is missing the whole downside of EMF?

• 1:41:28Speaker 01

  Well, I think Western medicine kind of operates on a whole paradigm of diagnosing disease and sickness. That's what doctors are taught. They're taught to diagnose if there's an illness. If your blood chemistry is a certain way, they can give you a diagnosis. So if you're 98 on the blood sugar, but not 100, you don't have diabetes, it's a diagnostic paradigm. Whereas I think that with EMF and any stressor that's environmental, there's a more optimal paradigm where you can get sicker and sicker and have more oxidative stress, more general

• 1:42:13Speaker 01

  environmental stress without actually getting to that diagnosis. But there's a lot of things that can affect you up until your body kind of starts to present symptoms. So from this optimal health paradigm.

• 1:42:28Speaker 01

  People who are, you know, elite athletes or really into health and wellness, they can feel a lot of the changes, the subtle changes with EMF that really impact the optimal function in their body. Because the big question's always been, does EMF cause cancer? Does EMF cause this or that, A, B, or C illnesses? And the studies are set up to do that, but they're not set up to say, hey, does EMF impact melatonin production? Does it impact sleep? Does it impact focus and memory recall and some of these things? And there are a lot of studies that actually are studying that. But until, you know, in the Western medicine model, until A plus B equals a diagnosis

• 1:43:12Speaker 01

  of disease or illness, they just write it off. And so I think more and more people are understanding that we know so much about the physiology of the body that we can see if something interferes with optimal function. And we can start to carve out a path and a way forward where we're operating from a whole different paradigm of health and wellness, instead of just, this type of energy can cause this disease. Which that, I don't even think about. I think about it in terms of can we improve health by blocking something out and making the environment more optimal for humans to live in?

• 1:43:50Rick Rubin?

  It also doesn't sound unrealistic to think, if it's suboptimal, let's say for 10 years, that eventually it could lead to cancer.

• 1:44:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:44:02Rick Rubin?

  That's not an unrealistic assumption.

• 1:44:04Speaker 01

  Right, exactly. Yeah. And that's the thing is, is there are, there are studies that, that show that, you know, chronic exposures do cause cancer over time, or have caused them in rats. There is a big government study, like a multimillion dollar, $30 million study by the National Toxicology Program years ago, and they showed that it caused cancer in rats. But the conclusion was that it causes cancer in rats, and that doesn't apply to humans. So it's interesting, like what the conclusions they can come to based on the studies that they do. The whole reason they were studying it was so that we could

• 1:44:44Speaker 01

  see if it was affecting humans. And then they say, oh, well, it's, it causes cancer in rats, not-

• 1:44:51Rick Rubin?

  So it doesn't matter?

• 1:44:52Speaker 01

  So it doesn't matter.

• 1:44:55Rick Rubin?

  Well, we accept that smoking leads to cancer. But if you smoke a cigarette, you don't get cancer.

• 1:45:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, it can contribute to it.

• 1:45:04Rick Rubin?

  It's a subtle stressor that, over time, turns into something bad.

• 1:45:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, correct.

• 1:45:12Rick Rubin?

  Do people come to see you more for optimum health? Or do you get people who are just sick and not finding help in other ways?

• 1:45:22Speaker 01

  We get both. I would say probably 60 to 70% of the people we get are looking to optimize their health. But then the other 30 to 40%, it's people who are chemically sensitive, chronically ill, just debilitated, and they can't stand being in their environment. And so they're in this oxidative, stressed-out state where their nervous system can't handle any more environmental pressure or stressors. And so for them, it's people that are really sensitive to mold and chemicals and fragrances. A lot of times, they're also sensitive to EMFs. And that's because of that physiological pathway that they're right on the edge of

• 1:46:04Speaker 01

  that oxidative stress overload for their nervous system. And so any fragrance can have them go into an inflammatory response. Chronic or acute EMF exposure to pulsing types of man-made radiation can cause them to tip that scale in the wrong direction and overflow that bucket for them. Or just lighting that's flickering can cause them to go over that edge as well. Usually with the people that are chronically ill that come to us, it's never just one cause. A lot of them focus on EMF because they notice when someone turns their phone off of airplane mode, or there's a Wi-Fi router, or they're near power lines that they get symptoms. So they focus on that.

• 1:46:46Speaker 01

  But there's usually multiple components to why their body is at that such high of a stress level. And it usually has to do with chemicals, heavy metals, mold, things like that that they've been exposed to in the past that are also other contributors to making their body so sensitive in that way.

• 1:47:06Rick Rubin?

  Is there an argument that the sensitivity...

• 1:47:11Rick Rubin?

  Is not a weakness, but actually a superpower.

• 1:47:15Speaker 01

  Some people would argue that, yeah. Because if you can feel it, then you're avoiding it. And if you can't feel it, then is it still doing damage? Well, a lot of the studies show that yes, it is still doing damage.

• 1:47:29Rick Rubin?

  So the fact that someone is numb to it doesn't mean it's not bad for them.

• 1:47:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:47:33Rick Rubin?

  They just don't feel it because they're desensitized.

• 1:47:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, and maybe their body can handle more because they don't have other types of stressors in their life, but it doesn't mean that, you know, if if you're taking a poison, but it doesn't kill you, is the poison still good for you? You could argue that, no, it's not. You should, it's better to not take the poison because it's still doing something physiologically to your body or making it so you're more susceptible to other stressors. Because the other thing we found is that even people that go through emotional turmoil, it triggers some of the same physiological pathways as EMFs do with the oxidative stress on a cellular level. So people that have trauma, past trauma, and you know, some, something really big or stressful that happens in their life,

• 1:48:21Speaker 01

  sometimes they'll become sensitive to chemicals and their, their health will go downhill. I mean, I, I know a lot of people who had something really big and tragic happen to them and they got really sick a few years afterwards. And it wasn't until they dealt with that that they, they got better. And sometimes the nervous system just gets to that, that tipping point. And environmental stressors can do that, emotional stressors can do that. The body just kind of it says, it throws its hands up and said, I had enough. I, you can't handle any more of this type of stress anymore. And so like, the easiest thing to do for people that are in that boat is to say like, it's not just one thing that you have to deal with.

• 1:49:05Speaker 01

  This, the EMF piece is something that we can measure, we can control, we can, we have solutions for it. But you also have to not be living in a moldy house. And, and clean your cabinets and, and everything from, from all of the chemicals and things that you're inhaling and being exposed to all the time.

• 1:49:23Rick Rubin?

  How good is mold testing these days?

• 1:49:26Speaker 01

  It's actually really good. There's, there's a lot of people that know more than me about mold, but they do a lot of testing in homes with little cultures. Like you can take samples from around the home, in the vents and, and around different areas where there's possibly been water leaks in the past, or, or some water coming into the house. And you can test and see if there's any mold spores present. And I think that's kind of the gold standard for testing is seeing if there's anything present. And then you have to fix the problem. And then you need to clean up all the spores that are currently in, in the house from the previous problem that existed. What are your thoughts on supplements?

• 1:50:08Speaker 01

  I think there's a lot of supplements that can help with EMF exposure and sensitivity for people. Which ones help the most? Since EMFs cause oxidative stress, it's really good to use antioxidants and pulse them, ironically. But you want to use water soluble antioxidants like vitamin C. And then molecular hydrogen is a really, really good one. Or hydrogen inhalation therapy can be a really good remedy for EMF because it doesn't provide too much antioxidants, which you can overdo it with some of the exogenous antioxidants,

• 1:50:48Speaker 01

  like vitamin C and, and some of the different fruits and, and, and the other water soluble antioxidants. But then you also want to do fat soluble antioxidants, like vitamin E is one of those. And I also like to think that astaxanthin is because it comes with fish or shrimp or, or krill, has astaxanthin in it, and that's, that always comes with fat. So that's a very potent antioxidant and that actually can prevent, you know, I use it to prevent sunburns when I go to places that are very sunny and I'm, I'm not used to it. So I never burn because I'm dosing fat soluble antioxidants, astaxanthin, vitamin C in the morning.

• 1:51:30Speaker 01

  It helps to prep the body for some of that oxidative stress from the sun. And molecular hydrogen, you do with pellets in water? Yeah, they have some pellets that you can put in water and it will dissolve within like 30 seconds to a minute. And then you just drink the hydrogen bubbles. And then there's some machines you can get that will, you can inhale it through your, through your nose that are very beneficial.

• 1:51:53Rick Rubin?

  And there are some devices that emit healthy electric frequency. Do you know about those?

• 1:51:59Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:52:00Rick Rubin?

  What are your thoughts?

• 1:52:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, so there's, there's some that emit an actual signal like that is producing Schumann resonance. There's Schumann resonance generators. Those you can measure. Those, that's the type that they would put on a shuttle, a space shuttle and, and use with the astronauts. And so there's some companies that I know have been producing that and, and showing that that has had some kind of therapeutic benefit for people. There's others that claim to be producing some other type of measurement that you can't really measure with something like scalar energy. And those, they don't make a difference in the EMF that I'm testing, the manmade EMFs, like the

• 1:52:42Speaker 01

  radio frequencies, magnetic fields, the AC currents and voltages that we're testing and that are common in every home. They don't change the meters at all. And there's no meter that can measure scalar waves. So my question to some of these companies would be.

• 1:52:58Rick Rubin?

  How do you know if it's working?

• 1:52:59Speaker 01

  How do you know if it's working? How do you calibrate it to make sure it's beneficial? And why, how does it have anything to do with electromagnetic radiation? If an electromagnetic radiation meter can't measure it. So scalar is more of a, they say it's longitudinal, it's, it's on a different spectrum. If you can't measure it, how do you calibrate it? That's my question. So I, I try to stick with the science and what we can measure and the benefits that we see with people. But I also don't, at the same time, I don't discount when someone has an experience that works for them. Now, whether it's a placebo or a catalyst to the placebo effect, I think we should be using the placebo effect to our advantage, no matter what the catalyst is.

• 1:53:44Rick Rubin?

  Whatever works.

• 1:53:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:46Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:46Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:53:47Rick Rubin?

  What are the biggest offenders in most homes?

• 1:53:52Speaker 01

  Biggest offenders in just about every home is the electrical wiring. And it's not necessarily that it's done improperly or not to code. Sometimes it is, and that can have more of an effect. But it's the fact that we're using unshielded Romex wires that emit electric fields that you can measure with, you know, any electrician can measure this with a multimeter if you have it at home. You just use the ground as a reference and test what we call your body voltage. So you hold on to the lead to test voltage, just like you'd test voltage in an outlet. You have have one side connected to the ground as a reference, the other side connected to actually your body.

• 1:54:34Speaker 01

  And you can walk around your room and and get close to the walls where the electrical wires are, and you'll see your voltage will go up. Now, if we did the same experiment out in nature camping, your voltage is always going to be 0.0000, like no AC voltage at all. If you're walking under electrical lines, your voltage will elevate in that scenario, even if you're outside. But inside, you're going to have a high amount of this body voltage that is coming from the electrical wires. And humanity never had that before the mid 1900s. It's standard today, but it's something that could be changed. Yeah, it can be changed.

• 1:55:19Speaker 01

  We could use more DC, like devices. And we do use use devices that operate on batteries and things like that. So there are some positive things going on in the world in regards to that. But we could also just build our AC systems smarter with human biology in mind. We could be shielding ourselves from these frequencies because the technology exists to do that. Are there shielded options for everything?

• 1:55:46Speaker 01

  Not for everything, but that's something that I'm trying to create with one of my companies, The Shielding Shop, is we're trying to innovate and redesign with human health in mind.

• 1:55:58Rick Rubin?

  Give me an example of something that's a product that everybody uses, that gives off a lot of EMF, and that you've found a way to have it not give off a lot of EMF.

• 1:56:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, so one great example is what I consider to be the flagship product of our company that's really popular right now is called the Safe Charger. So everyone has a cell phone charger, and a lot of times we'll be using the phone while it's charging, and just because the battery went dead or whatever. But when you do that, your phone is plugged into just a two-prong outlet that's not grounded. And even though the little transformer block that you have that you plug into the wall, it's transforming the energy from AC from the wall to DC in order to power your device and charge your device. But because it's not grounded, all of that AC energy leaks onto the charging cable and

• 1:56:50Speaker 01

  onto your body, onto the phone, and you're not even using that. You're using DC to charge. So what we've done is we created a charger that will basically drain all that AC voltage out through the ground, and it won't come onto the cable, so you can use it without getting that electric field exposure. So if you're in an environment that's really clean and already shielded from AC, you plug in a normal charger, you would have a body voltage of like 1 to 2 volts of AC onto your body. With that charger, it doesn't increase your voltage at all in that environment.

• 1:57:26Rick Rubin?

  What are your thoughts on Bluetooth headphones?

• 1:57:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, so Bluetooth headphones, you know, we've tested them, and you can test it with a radio frequency meter, and you basically put them in your ear, and you've got two antennas like on either side of your head, just kind of literally, you know, it's using microwaves, and it's microwaving your head. Now, there are studies that show that like, you know, we've also tested hearing aids, and it's the same. Thing now, there's a lot of hearing aids that are just as strong as AirPods or Bluetooth headphones. You know, any anything that has wireless in them. So I avoid them. I go back and I use the wired headphones.

• 1:58:08Speaker 01

  And I think that it's smart to do that. But I feel especially bad for a lot of people with hearing aids because they have to use them to in order to hear.

• 1:58:18Rick Rubin?

  I wonder if there's a hearing aid that doesn't have the problem.

• 1:58:21Speaker 01

  There are some, and I did a post about this a few months ago. And there is a level of of this Bluetooth radiation that can cause the blood brain barrier to leak. That's been documented and studied. And some of these Bluetooth headphones exceed that that we've measured. So it's important to protect your brain, especially in today's world where we have so many things that are causing illness in the brain with chemicals and pollution and and many, many different environmental stressors as well.

• 1:58:56Rick Rubin?

  I use wired in ear headphones and I wanted to ask if we could test them to see how they're doing. Typically, this is the way my phone is set. I have Bluetooth off. I'm in airplane mode, but I have Wi-Fi on.

• 1:59:13Speaker 01

  So we do have some Wi-Fi in the area and the phone's Wi-Fi is on. So the the average reading here or the peak that we've got so far is between four and 500 micro watts per meter squared. Okay, so we'll play it. We'll see if there's any elevation from that baseline.

• 1:59:31Rick Rubin?

  Okay, now I'm playing a podcast.

• 1:59:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's not. It's not really elevating at all with that. Now, if I had Bluetooth headphones, the reading right now is about six, 700, 800 peak. But if we had Bluetooth headphones, that number, if I was right on the headphones, it would be around 500,000 to 800,000.

• 1:59:56Rick Rubin?

  And being right on the headphones makes sense because the headphones are right on your head. So

• 2:00:00Speaker 01

  Right, exactly.

• 2:00:01Rick Rubin?

  That's an accurate reading.

• 2:00:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:00:03Rick Rubin?

  There's no reason to test headphones from five feet away.

• 2:00:06Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah, exactly. Yep.

• 2:00:09Rick Rubin?

  Because we're in a room that has Wi-Fi, that's impacting this. If I was out for a walk where there was no Wi-Fi, but I still had my Wi-Fi on. How would that impact it?

• 2:00:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, your phone still has an antenna in it, so it's transmitting a signal to try to reach, to connect with your Wi-Fi router. And so if, if you're not connected to the Wi-Fi, then there would be no reason for it to be on. So what we would recommend is just download your podcast or music before your walk.

• 2:00:40Rick Rubin?

  Which I do.

• 2:00:41Speaker 01

  Yep. I have this protective case that you can use to basically stop all the Wi-Fi signal. I like to use this as a demonstration for what it's like to be in a shielded space. What I do is I'll take the EMF meter and turn the sound on. And then you can hear.

• 2:00:59Rick Rubin?

  And I'm gonna leave the Wi-Fi on the phone on just to see if it makes a difference.

• 2:01:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure.

• 2:01:07Speaker 01

  And then what I do is I put the EMF meter with the speaker on, just right into the pouch.

• 2:01:19Speaker 01

  And it goes completely silent.

• 2:01:21Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:21Speaker 01

  Like that. And then I start to open it up. You can hear it. So essentially, like, when you're, when you're in a shielded environment, it's like you go into that quiet zone.

• 2:01:33Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:35Rick Rubin?

  Is there anything we can do for grounding either in a car or when flying?

• 2:01:41Speaker 01

  There's not much you can do in a car or when you're flying because you're technically not grounded. What they use for ground in airplanes or cars is like the connection to the, the metal frame of the, of the vehicle that you're in. So the most metal would be the lowest, that's connected together would be the lowest voltage potential, which is what they would technically use as a ground. You can connect to that potential when you're in that environment, and it will make you a part of that potential. And if you're away from the AC motor, it will try to drain through that, that area. But there's not really a way to ground.

• 2:02:24Speaker 01

  There's just a way to shield yourself from the highest voltage sources if...

• 2:02:33Speaker 01

  You're shielded with that actual ground for the airplane or the vehicle. Have you ever tried it to ground to the vehicle? Yeah, years ago, I saw someone post about grounding to the metal on the airplane seat like in front of you. And so I've tried that and noticed a little difference in how I felt during the flight. But it's all just opinion. But measurement wise, one of the things that you do need to be concerned about on an airplane is, you know, getting a seat that's really close to the engines. Because the engines are spinning and the jets are spinning. And so there's more of a magnetic field in those locations. So the further away from the engines, the better? Yeah.

• 2:03:18Speaker 01

  On most planes, are the engines in the back of the plane or are they on the wings? It depends. Usually they're on the wings that I've seen. And so if you're really close, like if you're in front of it, in front of the wing, or you can see the wing, usually it's okay. But like if you're kind of toward the back, I tend to get a little elevated readings there. And then also, there's a lot of wifi now on planes because everyone's using the airplane wifi. Even though your phone's on airplane mode, you've got wifi on every device. You've got wifi on the seats if they have a screen on every single one of those. That's one of those instances where I've recommended that people would use shielded clothing when they're on a flight like that in a contained environment.

• 2:04:02Speaker 01

  Is it readily available, shielded clothing? There's a few companies that make it. There's a one brand called No Choice that makes like a full body suit that I've had some people use. What I tend to do is I'll use the supplements to help mitigate a lot of the damage from... There's ionizing radiation that's well known when you go up in the atmosphere. You can take a Geiger counter and you'll measure that. So even antioxidant support helps with that, but also it helps with your wifi exposure from going up in that environment where you're basically in the metal container with all the wifi signal going on. And best practices in a car?

• 2:04:46Speaker 01

  In a car, best practice would be to disconnect your wireless connection to the vehicle itself, to use regular charging cable to connect for like Apple CarPlay or the Android version of that, because you can actually connect and still use navigation with that instead of connecting via Bluetooth. The other thing would be if you're using GPS to get somewhere, load up the GPS first and then you can put it on airplane mode and your GPS will actually still work. Now, if you make a wrong turn, it won't reroute, so you'd have to take it off of airplane mode to reroute and to reconnect to the data.

• 2:05:26Speaker 01

  But you're drastically reducing your exposure while you're driving if you're using GPS by loading the map, then turning it into airplane mode and then following the instructions. And cars can be extra problematic because you can start to lose reception as you're driving if you're like on a road trip because you're going farther away from a tower that you're connected to. So your phone will actually pump out more juice in order to connect, have a good connection. And then when you get to the next tower, it will spike up again and talk to the new tower. So it is really important to be on airplane mode when you're driving and you can still use your GPS when you're doing that. Tell me about your work with Sauna Space.

• 2:06:09Speaker 01

  I've been working with Sauna Space since about 2018, I believe. And I helped them with some consulting on the EMF shielding in their saunas. So all of their sauna panels are shielded from electric fields. And we, you know, helped them do the internal, like plan the internal shielding for that. And then also, we designed the Faraday model of their sauna where we have this organic cotton shield that goes completely around the sauna, blocks 99% or more of the wireless radiation from any environment that it's in. And it's grounded, so there's, so you can put it in any environment

• 2:06:50Speaker 01

  and it's completely grounded and your body voltage in that environment is zero as well. And that's important because in a sauna, you kind of have Two different types of therapies that you want to be getting. You want to be getting like the first half of your sauna session, or maybe even three quarters is really relaxing. The heat kind of relaxes the muscles. And when you get into that relaxed state, your body is more able to release toxins because toxin release and detox is a parasympathetic process. That means your relaxation part of your nervous system needs to be activated. And then that allows you to release more of the chemicals from the being in the heat and everything with sweating.

• 2:07:34Speaker 01

  And then the second part is you get really hot and there's these heat shock proteins that give you all sorts of other benefits. And so you sweat a lot. And there's no EMF stress to put you into that stressed out state before your body is ready for it. So you start relaxed and there's nothing stressing your body because there's no EMF. And then you get hot enough that you start, your heart starts beating and then you know, okay, it's almost time to get out of this. And you get all the benefits of the sauna instead of being electromagnetically stressed the entire first half and then heat shock stressed the second half. So people that use that sauna, especially the Faraday model,

• 2:08:16Speaker 01

  they report that it's much more relaxing when you get out. Your body is able to like recover a lot faster and you're also able to sweat a lot quicker.

• 2:08:28Rick Rubin?

  In the 10 years or so that you've been doing this, is anything a lot different now than when you first started looking at this stuff?

• 2:08:35Speaker 01

  That is a great question that I haven't thought about too much. But I would say that when I first started doing this, it was right before the 5G rollout. And one thing that I didn't see a lot in the beginning was the concern for millimeter wave radiation in the next generation of wireless. And also, I think a lot of solar started to really increase. And the technology got better, but there's a lot of solar companies and there was some government subsidies. So a lot of people were installing it. And in the beginning, every single solar panel or solar system you installed was dirty and bad.

• 2:09:17Speaker 01

  Now there are a few that are popping up, only one or two that. Have actually mitigated the problem with a lot of these solar inverters. There's one called Nphase that some colleagues of mine have tested that's good. And then SolarEdge HD Wave, that's another one that that we've tested multiple times. It's been very low and especially there are more recent renditions of it. So I think as technology changes, we should be skeptical and optimistic at the same time. I never like to recommend something that I personally haven't tested or my team hasn't tested.

• 2:09:57Speaker 01

  And so when something new comes out, I try to approach it with the curiosity of a child. Like, okay, what is this? Let's test it. Is it good or bad? Can it be better than what we had before? If yes, then we're doing a step in the right direction. If no, then how do we mitigate that problem?

• 2:10:18Rick Rubin?

  Are there any appliances that we use on a regular basis? Like electric toothbrush or a vacuum cleaner? That are particularly questionable?

• 2:10:32Speaker 01

  A lot of the things that we use, we're only using for a short period of time. So it's it's usually less of an issue. And there's some things I talk about in, I co-teach a course called The Electropollution Fix with Nicolas Pinault, the EMF guy, that's what he calls himself. So if you go to the EMFGuy.com, that's that's where you find our our course. But we, in that course, we talk about the, a 3D system. And that stands for distance, duration, and downtime. So those are the the things that you have to be concerned about with EMF. Like what what's the distance that you're using it at? So like with a toothbrush or a hairdryer, those can be very high EMF.

• 2:11:16Speaker 01

  And they're really close to your body. So the distance is an issue. But the duration that you're using is very small. And then are you using it when you're relaxed? That's the downtime part. Like, you need to be in a parasympathetic state when you're using it. Because if you're sleeping, that's your, that's definitely a downtime. And your body is actually more susceptible to problems with various environmental stressors. I don't know if it's a study or a statement from someone prominent in the natural health world, or a doctor or somebody like that, that said that, you know, you're 10 times more susceptible to EMF damage at night than you are during the day.

• 2:11:58Speaker 01

  And that makes sense because you're in a more sympathetic, aware state during the day. Your defenses are up. You can also receive inputs from nature and from food that can help you. You can get light from the sun that helps your body's defenses against oxidative stress. You can get nutrients from food and antioxidants from food that can help with oxidative stress during the day. But at night, you're not eating and the sun is down. So your shields are kind of down for whatever you exposed yourself to during the day. And so like, you're, you're more defenseless at night than you are during the day,

• 2:12:39Speaker 01

  just based on the inputs that you have as well. What is a smart meter? Smart meter? So that's the electrical meter that they've been installing, probably the last 15 or 20 years, on people's homes. And it produces a radio frequency signal to send data back to the utility company. Non-smart meters did not do that? Correct, yeah. The traditional meters had the little clocky dial things. And, and you'd go and you'd, you'd see it spinning around. Or if you've, if you've seen National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation, remember when they turn on the lights? And then they have that shot where, where it's like spinning like crazy? Yeah. That was an analog meter in that movie. And, but now they have digital meters.

• 2:13:24Speaker 01

  And there's typically a radio frequency that where all the meters in the neighborhood are communicating together. And we talked about before, the frequency they use is 900 to 915 megahertz. And that's the same frequency that opens up the blood-brain barrier in, in a lot of the medical studies that they, they do over in Europe. So do you recommend? Moving away from a smart meter? Yeah, you can opt out, contact your utility company and ask them to replace your smart meter with an analog one, or they, some of them have special meters called opt-out meters that they'll install if you don't want that. And the other solution is to just get what's called a smart meter cover, or a smart meter guard.

• 2:14:09Speaker 01

  There's several different brands you can get, or you can even make your own. The quickest thing to do is to just put aluminum foil over the smart meter and that will dampen the signal, leave a little hole so that a little signal can get out. But they usually make these frequencies like 100 to 500 times stronger than they need to be. Wow. And so if you do that, usually the signal will still get through adequately and they'll get the information they need, but it's not blasting you in the process. And this is especially important if that meter is on the other side of the wall from a bedroom, or an area where you're spending a lot of time. How far does the signal go out from the smart meter? It will go out anywhere from 100 to 300 feet.

• 2:14:54Speaker 01

  Really? Yeah. Like when I'm in a neighborhood that's pretty tight together, I've got a real-time spectrum analyzer from this German company, it shows a very colorful display of like the different frequencies. I'll see what I call a sea of smart meters. So I'll see the person's smart meter will pulse, and it'll be really strong, and then the neighbors will be like halfway as strong. But then I'll see a bunch of other ones on the screen that are popping up like ocean waves. So even if you block yours, if there are neighbors close by, you'll still be getting hit with it? Yep. What are the main suggestions for a new construction?

• 2:15:39Speaker 01

  New construction, we do a lot of consulting on those and it really depends on the preference of the person. And what I mean by that is that sometimes you have one person that wants to block everything and have an extremely healthy home with no EMF exposure. And you have another person that wants a smart home where everything's automated. And so you have to meet in the middle sometimes. But some of the things you can do in general for everyone is it's more expensive, but you can get most of your wiring done in a flexible metal conduit. Or you know, you can go to the store and there's the armored armor light cable from Home Depot

• 2:16:21Speaker 01

  or Lowe's and it has the electrical lines already in it, but it's wrapped in this aluminum or steel ribbed metal. So it's shielded. So it's shielded and that shield is grounded by default according to code. And they use this a lot in commercial wiring. It's required in cities like Chicago to prevent fires. After the Chicago fires, they changed the code so that any building above a certain number of stories had to have this metal type of conduit for the electrical because it does help prevent fires. But also it blocks the electric portion of the fields that are in the AC systems. So basically you can walk around the house and like I was talking before, you test your

• 2:17:05Speaker 01

  body voltage in a house that's wired with all of those. If there's nothing plugged in, you won't be exposed to any of that AC electricity. So like when we have a new build, that's one of the things we recommend to do. If you can't do that, or it becomes cost prohibitive, or you can't find anybody to do it. How much more expensive is it to do that? It really depends on the contractor that you find. We've had quotes where it's only 20% more for labor and maybe 15 to 20% more for materials. And we've had somewhere it was like they charged twice as much, you know? So it depends on the area, what's available, the contractors that are available. Some people have a sea of contractors they can choose from.

• 2:17:48Speaker 01

  Others have like a very small number of people they can hire to do it. But if you can't do that because it's cost prohibitive in your area, there's other ways around blocking that EMF. We have this mesh that we offer where you can do this grounding mesh for the floors. You can put it up behind the walls. And it's grounded, so it blocks that electric field from coming into the space, the same as the metal conduit would do. And so sometimes we'll just do landing spots in the house where, okay, we want this spot. This is where our big couch is going to be. So we'll ground the floor here and the wall here. And then in the bedrooms, we typically would recommend full shielding with conductive shielding paint.

• 2:18:32Speaker 01

  And we do the floors, the walls and the ceiling. And then we have coverings that we do for the windows. But one of the main things for construction is the design, making sure that big appliances, the electrical runs are going in good locations so that we can stay away from seating areas and sleeping areas and making sure that the magnetic fields are low in those areas. And over time, when someone's in a house that's been designed with all of this in mind, they won't have nearly as much exposure as someone who's in a house that's just randomly designed with random materials. And your body feels calmer in those environments. We've had some homes where they're done, they've done all the shielding and everything we've recommended.

• 2:19:17Speaker 01

  You go into it and there's a stillness, just like you feel when the power goes out.

• 2:19:23Rick Rubin?

  Yeah, it's a great feeling. I love that feeling. Are there any EMF mitigated hotels in the world?

• 2:19:30Speaker 01

  There are some in Germany and Austria where this is more prevalent. There's one hotel I'm working with called Alumina down in Tulum. And I'm consulting with them to build their hotel in a low EMF way. Generally, if you're staying in someplace that's in South America, or they have a certain style of buildings, the way that they build down there with the electrical and conduit, and then they have clay and stone that they build with. The walls tend to be grounded and to mitigate a lot of that electricity.

• 2:20:03Rick Rubin?

  Great.

• 2:20:04Speaker 01

  And so you have in some of the places that have different types of building materials, you'll actually have some EMF protection just from the way that they build.

• 2:20:13Rick Rubin?

  Seems like a great opportunity for a new hotel being built in terms of separating themselves from the other hotels.

• 2:20:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally. It's it's an untapped market and there's a lot of people that are searching for environments where they don't have all that connectivity because it's at hotels especially, they're trying to make sure everyone's connected, everyone has their Wi-Fi access because everyone's, you know, if we admit it, we're actually, a lot of us are addicted to this technology and to being connected. And there's a lot, there's a dopamine hit that happens every time you get a signal notification or on an app and and everything. And so we're, we have this need for this connection. But more and more of us are realizing how important it is to disconnect and live life in the real world and to be more connected

• 2:21:02Speaker 01

  to nature. And some of us, when we go on vacation, we need that desperately to be able to disconnect and not only mentally, but also physically from those frequencies. One of my friends talks about being a freak of nature, a frequency of nature, instead of a freak of, you know, the system. So if you're a frequency of nature, then you're connected more to the frequencies that are in nature. But if you're a frequency of the system and the technology, then you're constantly connected to that and and you kind of have a need or an addiction to that.

• 2:21:47Rick Rubin?

  Have you looked at the Starlink satellite hookups?

• 2:21:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, so we have a lot of our customers use Starlink, some in very rural areas. And as long as you hook it up to a wired router system, you can actually have a really solid, fast connection without Wi-Fi exposure. And the satellites, they actually just beam down to the dish. And then it takes that and usually puts it in a Wi-Fi router with the modem that comes with the whole system. But if you switch that Wi-Fi to a wired router, then you can still have a very clean environment with the Starlink system.

• 2:22:31Rick Rubin?

  Have you considered writing a book about mitigating EMF?

• 2:22:34Speaker 01

  I have, and I've started one many years ago, but then I got busy running the businesses and starting new products and things like that. So I think I'm probably in the next couple of years, I'm gonna put together everything that I've collected over the last 10 years and really kind of provide a manual for people where they can do that because I know it's needed. There's a lot of books about EMF, but I don't know how many people are doing this the way that I'm doing it in this space. And I'm always trying to improve the way that I do things. And then when new technology comes out, we have to kind of recalibrate and think about things.

• 2:23:17Speaker 01

  I think the tendency is whenever there's something new is to be very skeptical of it. I think that's healthy. But also, I think there's a flip side of that where we're assuming that it's always gonna be bad. And I think that's especially true in the EMF space, that we assume that 6G is gonna be bad, that 7G and 8G is gonna be bad. When in reality, I think we should have an open mind to this, like, hey, could we make it better? Can we be an optimist about this? And can we change the world so that we can actually make a bigger difference in people's lives and change it and shift it away from something that's been bad and shift it towards something good?

• 2:23:59Speaker 01

  What if 7G was healthy?

• 2:24:03Rick Rubin?

  That'd be great.

• 2:24:04Speaker 01

  That would be awesome.

• 2:24:31Speaker 07

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