Pod Insights TED Radio Hour Who counts as a significant other? About this episode Finding "the one" can seem like life's ultimate goal—but should it be? This hour, TED speakers expand the definition of life partnership, whether it's with a friend, a spouse, a pet, or no one at all.
Guest include journalist Rhaina Cohen, marriage and family therapist Stephanie Yates-Anyabwile, social psychologist Bella DePaulo and photographer Elias Weiss Friedman of "The Dogist."
Original broadcast date: February 7, 2025
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Transcript 8,296 words · 10 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 This message comes from Planet Visionaries. Host Alex Honnold sits down this season with extraordinary doers, creating real climate solutions. Listen or watch wherever you get your podcasts.
0:11 Manoush Zomorodi? Hey, it's Manoush Zomorodi here, host of NPR'S TED Radio Hour. Can you believe that 2025 is almost over? There were times when it felt like this year would never end, right? 2025 was a seriously tough year for NPR and local stations. Despite the loss of federal funding for public media, despite attacks on the free press, we're still here. NPR won't shy away from exercising its critical right to editorial independence guaranteed by the First Amendment. And with your support, NPR will keep bringing you the news without fear or favor. Here at TED Radio Hour, that includes bringing you science, technology, human behavior,
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1:37 Manoush Zomorodi? This is the TED Radio Hour. Each week, groundbreaking TED Talks. Our job now is to dream big. Delivered at TED conferences. To bring about the future we want to see. Around the world. To understand who we are. From those talks, we bring you speakers and ideas that will surprise you.
1:57 Speaker 02 You just don't know what you're gonna find.
1:58 Manoush Zomorodi? Challenge you.
1:59 Speaker 02 We truly have to ask ourselves, like, why is it noteworthy?
2:02 Manoush Zomorodi? And even change you. I literally feel like I'm a different person. Yes. Do you feel that way? Ideas worth spreading. From TED and NPR.
2:15 Manoush Zomorodi? I'm Manoush Zomorodi. Today on the show, significant others. Who matters most to us in our lives? We start with a different kind of love story.
2:27 Speaker 03 It does feel a little like a movie cliche that I spotted her across the room at a bar. And I knew I wanted to talk to her just from her body language.
2:38 Manoush Zomorodi? This is journalist Raina Cohen. She had recently moved to DC when she met someone you might call her soulmate, who she refers to as M.
2:48 Speaker 03 She was leaning in, was making people laugh. And I could feel the confidence from her and also lightness. And I eventually struck up conversation, had what could have been a pick up line where I was like, you're a singer, aren't you? Because she has this voice that is melodic. Anyway, we just talked to each other very quickly and then found out we lived a five minute walk from each other.
3:14 Manoush Zomorodi? And before long, the two of them were inseparable.
3:17 Speaker 03 We'd see each other three, four times a week. I would stop by her house on the way to the metro. When I was commuting to work, we were just really integrated into each other's lives.
3:26 Manoush Zomorodi? They'd hang out all the time, cook together, share stories, ideas.
3:31 Speaker 03 I think I just wanted to know everything she thought, kind of at all times. She just has a way of observing the world and observing human dynamics that I wanted to absorb.
3:39 Manoush Zomorodi? They even went to each other's office holiday parties. Raina often caught herself mentioning M in conversation.
3:46 Speaker 03 It felt very quickly like I had fallen for her in a way that felt familiar because I had fallen in love before.
3:54 Manoush Zomorodi? Yeah, because when you describe that, I mean, it sounds like, oh, she had charisma that you were attracted to. You guys had chemistry.
4:02 Speaker 03 Yeah, but it was a platonic kind of love. It just didn't feel like what was driving the connection was something that was sexual, something that had a kind of conventional romantic relationship undertone.
4:17 Manoush Zomorodi? I mean, part of me thinks, oh, that is so beautiful. That's so nice. You have this incredible relationship, almost like a sister, it sounds like. But it also ended up leading you on a kind of journey to write a bestselling book about connections that push the boundaries of what we typically think of as a friendship. And was that in part because people were confused by your friendship with Em? What prompted you to start investigating these intense platonic relationships?
4:48 Speaker 03 Yeah, I wanted to find other people who had these sorts of friendships. And initially, I just kind of wanted to affirm them. I was upset by the idea that people's closest relationship would not only not be celebrated, but instead judged. And some of the early people I spoke to felt like their friendships were completely misunderstood, where they were gossiped about, where, you know, they were accused of being closeted, that they were actually in love with each other. And some of that happened in workplace settings. I mean, at least in the case of me and Em, mostly we had people being like, how do you get this? So it wasn't just-
5:26 Manoush Zomorodi? They were jealous of the closeness that you had.
5:29 Speaker 03 Yeah, they wanted a version of it.
5:31 Manoush Zomorodi? We should point out that you were married, are married, to a man. So what did he think about this new friendship?
5:40 Speaker 03 Very happy, yeah, on my behalf. I mean, he's just not a very jealous person. And, you know, in the way that the two of us think about what our ideal romantic relationship looks like, it is one where we welcome other close people into it. And so he was happy that I had, you know, just come to this new city and I had pretty quickly found my way, in part because I had found this person who really made my life feel grounded in DC.
6:09 Speaker 03 I want people to realize that friendship can be much bigger and deeper and more significant to our lives than we've been told it can be, and to open our imaginations when we're approaching the friendships in our own lives, to not set unnecessary limits on them.
6:29 Manoush Zomorodi? Why do so many of us still believe that finding the one should be the goal of an adult life? Are there other options? How do we decide who to share our lives with? Today on the show, our significant others, all we need from a life partner, whether that's a friend, a spouse, a dog, or no one else at all. So, back to journalist Raina Cohen. Her book, The Other Significant Others: Reimagining Life with Friendship at the Center, really struck a chord with readers.
7:06 Speaker 03 I'm interested in the questions that these historical friendships raise and how they can help us stretch the boundaries of what friendship is and kind of question a little bit what we think about romantic relationships. Some of the friends that I spoke to had this friendship occupy the space that's conventionally given to a romantic partner.
7:26 Manoush Zomorodi? Here's Raina Cohen on the TED State.
7:29 Speaker 03 Some had this kind of friendship and a romantic partner. It's not either/or. As I spoke to these people, I realized that they were at the frontier of friendship, helping us imagine how much more we could ask of our platonic relationships. Which is true, but another way of looking at it is, they're doing something retro, even ancient. In ancient Rome, friends would talk about each other as "half of my soul" or "the greater part of my soul," the kind of language we now use in romantic relationships.
8:08 Speaker 03 From China to Jordan to England, there was a practice called sworn brotherhood, where male friends would go through a ritual that would turn them into brothers. About a century ago, friends would sit for portraits like these, with their arms wrapped around each other, their bodies up close. What I took from this history is that if we don't limit friendship, it can be central to our lives. And so for me, looking at sworn brotherhood provokes questions about why we think about friendship the way we do now, where it is basically disposable, where you think of it as maybe temporary, or it's something that you stuff to the side of life, where
8:49 Speaker 03 what we see in friendships throughout history is that they were publicly recognized in ceremonies, like with sworn brotherhood, where some of the most intense emotions that we think of only as existing in romantic relationships, in fact, existed in friendships.
9:04 Manoush Zomorodi? I mean, a lot of people would say, like, well, when you find that person who you can, you know, tell everything to, you marry them. That's what marriage is.
9:14 Speaker 03 It's a very historically recent idea. I mean, like, we're talking last, like, 50, 60 years, the idea that your spouse should be your best friend is, it's a beautiful thing to have elements of friendship within a spousal relationship, that marriage isn't just pragmatic, but that you can find somebody who, who really knows you in your depths. But, you know, I don't think there's just one person who can know you in that way. And I think it's great to be able to have, you know, something wonderful or hard in your life and to feel like there is more than one person you can call and more than one person who can support you. And I think that's a very different mentality that can make it possible to have sustained friendships throughout the, the kind of challenges and
9:59 Speaker 03 seasons of our life.
10:03 Speaker 03 And the kinds of friends that I spoke to, they don't just have a weekly phone call. They're friends like these. Natasha and Linda are the first legally recognized platonic co-parents in Canada. Joe and John have been best friends for many decades. When Joe was struggling with alcohol and drug use, John got him into recovery. And then John decided that to support his friend, he would also become sober. Joy took care of her friend Hannah during Hannah's six-year battle with ovarian cancer. And that included flying
10:43 Speaker 03 out to New York, where Hannah got specialized treatment. Joy had trouble actually sleeping overnight in the hospital because she was too busy watching to make sure her friend's chest was still rising and falling.
10:57 Manoush Zomorodi? There's a moment that you describe where Joy tells the people in the hospital that she is Hannah's wife, just so that she can spend the night and be with her friend who is dying. And we should be clear, it's not like Hannah didn't have a family, she has a husband. But there's a moment where you also say that Hannah's husband and her mom were at the hospital a ton, and Joy was home taking care of the kids. It just felt like, wow, how great to have another loving adult on the scene to help in a terrible crisis for this family.
11:32 Speaker 03 I think so many people want more support in their lives. And when things go wrong, it is not just, you know, emotional support that you can get from someone who is by your bedside when you're in the hospital, but also that you have another set of hands to help at home. Or, I mean, there's a moment where it is Joy and Hannah's mother who are trying to make a decision jointly about whether to have an ambulance come. And they were able to kind of make that really hard decision together.
12:05 Speaker 03 And I still think about Joy saying that after Hannah died, like, she can't believe the world still spins when she's not here. I mean, and talked about Hannah as a soulmate. And so I wanted to help people understand how significant a loss can be in a friendship. And then, you know, connected to that is how little it's recognized, and how that makes the grief worse.
12:30 Manoush Zomorodi? So, keeping all this in mind, what is your living situation right now?
12:36 Speaker 03 I live with my husband and also two of our closest friends. I think what's surprising to people is not just that we're living with friends, but that it's not for cost-saving. We've done it because we've chosen to.
12:51 Speaker 03 I feel like I get to live in a future world where you can just build a life with your friends. I live not only with my husband, but also two of my closest friends. It didn't take long for us to start scheming with about a half dozen other friends about trying to buy property together. The kind of place where we could raise kids alongside one another, our working title for the place is The Village.
13:18 Speaker 03 I don't know if this will work out. I can keep you posted about it. But if it does, I feel really confident about one thing. That if one of us has a migraine at 6:00 a.m. and there's a toddler bouncing around, or we get a terrifying diagnosis, we will not be a lonely person calling out only for no one to answer. And this is what I hope for all of us. That we feel like we have permission to share our lives with whoever we are lucky enough to find, whether that's a spouse, a sibling,
14:03 Speaker 03 or a house full of friends. Thank you.
14:10 Manoush Zomorodi? That was journalist and NPR producer Raina Cohen. Her book is called The Other Significant Others: Reimagining Life with Friendship at the Center. You can see her full talk at ted.com. On the show today are significant others. I'm Manoush Zamirodi, and you're listening to the TED Radio Hour from NPR. We'll be right back.
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15:27 Speaker 00 This message comes from Planet Visionaries. If you're looking for a dose of optimism, Planet Visionaries is the podcast you need. Host Alex Honnold sits down this season with extraordinary doers, creating real climate action. It's a lineup that proves hope isn't naive, it's fuel for change. In partnership with the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative, this is Planet Visionaries. Listen or watch wherever you get your podcasts.
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16:10 Manoush Zomorodi? It's the TED Radio Hour from NPR. I'm Manoush Zomorodi.
16:15 Manoush Zomorodi? On the show today, significant others. And when we say that phrase, we're usually referring to a spouse or life partner.
16:24 Speaker 05 Most people, even if they're not in a committed relationship, have fantasies or hopes of one day being in a monogamous relationship.
16:31 Manoush Zomorodi? This is Stephanie Yates-Anye Bule. She is a marriage and family therapist.
16:37 Speaker 05 The goal is to find that one person, to live with them, to build a family with them. That is definitely the expectation societally. And when someone starts dating someone, we're asking, oh, do you think it's serious? Do you think they might be the one? Do you think that you all would, you know, you might get married one day?
16:55 Manoush Zomorodi? And of course, if you do find a partner, there are a slew of norms and assumptions that come along for the ride. Together, these partners are supposed to share a bank account, vacation together, maybe own a home, have kids.
17:10 Speaker 05 How you should function as a wife, how you should function as a husband.
17:14 Manoush Zomorodi? But what if doing those things causes problems? Does that mean you aren't married to the right person?
17:20 Speaker 05 I have a couple where they can't travel together.
17:24 Manoush Zomorodi? What do you mean, they can't travel together?
17:26 Speaker 05 They can't travel together.
17:28 Manoush Zomorodi? Because?
17:29 Speaker 05 They'll, they'll kill each other. They came back from a trip and I'm not joking. They were talking about getting a divorce.
17:38 Manoush Zomorodi? So Stephanie says, instead of feeling bad about doing those things, just don't do them.
17:44 Speaker 05 I have so many people that I'll see, especially in individual therapy, where they are harboring so much guilt because they don't cook. And that's what they saw their mom doing. Or, I don't know how to build and that's what I saw somebody doing. Instead of just accepting that, you know, our expectations may be outdated and they might not work for us. When we compare ourselves to societal norms, we can develop a sense of resentment toward our partner, as well as a sense of shame for how we ourselves are coming up short.
18:14 Manoush Zomorodi? Here's Stephanie Yates Anyabwile on the TED stage.
18:18 Speaker 05 Now, before we really get into this, I have to say that some of us have to reckon with the fact that we may be with the wrong person. And that will be clear if your deepest desire is that your partner changed fundamental aspects of who they are. You really want them to be a different person. But if you're confident that you're with the right person and you just still feel frustrated and dissatisfied, we may find that rejecting everything we've known about good relationships is the key to actually having one. I work with couples every day and I help them through relational crises. I remember I was working with an engaged couple for about a year. They were struggling to make a blended family work.
19:02 Speaker 05 One partner had kids, the other one had never lived with kids before, and they moved in together after only knowing each other for three months.
19:14 Speaker 05 One time I went on vacation and by the time I got back, they'd called off their wedding. But why? Their love was honestly, it was evident and they were not cruel to each other. Their issue was figuring out how to continue building their romantic relationship while also figuring out how to raise teenagers, who to be honest, already had two very involved parents. They weren't really in need of a third. After a particularly big blow up over chores and responsibilities, I finally asked a dangerous question. I said, do you think that living together has hurt or helped your relationship more?
19:55 Speaker 05 We took a few weeks to explore that question and they decided to test it out. They got a short-term lease on an apartment nearby for the partner who didn't have kids. And we were really strategic. We made a contract. Let's talk about dates, let's talk about expectations while you guys are living separately. And by the time they came back to me, I'd never seen them communicate so well. They said that they were looking forward to every weekend that they got to spend together. It felt like a vacation because they would spend the entire week planning their time together and savoring every moment they had together. They also found that their individual relationships with the kids drastically improved
20:35 Speaker 05 without the pressure of trying to transition them into an entirely new household dynamic, especially when they only had a couple of years left in the house. So at this point, some of you may be asking yourselves, what kind of couples therapist recommends that couples live apart? That's a fair question. And to be honest, for a majority of my clients, this solution would not work. And that is the point. There's no such thing as normal when we're talking about two unique individuals with their own backgrounds and their own values.
21:10 Manoush Zomorodi? So when a couple comes into your office, what are some of the common issues they have? Is it, you know, we're worried that we're not compatible? Or we're arguing? Or where does it go wrong with the significant other?
21:26 Speaker 05 Yeah, vast majority of my couples come in and they say, we're having issues with communication. However, usually through couples therapy, we can identify more specific issues or lifestyle factors that are making it almost impossible to communicate about what you're actually needing.
21:45 Manoush Zomorodi? What do you mean lifestyle factors?
21:47 Speaker 05 So if you have, let's say, a difference in values, for example, if you're in a relationship and your partner is, like, I'm having a hard time sleeping with you, and you hear that and you personalize that, you internalize it, you feel rejected, you feel like your partner is saying that they'd rather be sleeping with someone else. But what they're saying is that they've went eighteen, twenty, twenty-five years having a bed to themselves, and now they're sharing a bed with someone who might sleep very differently than they do. They might have someone who moves a lot, or needs all the cover, or prefers it cooler or hotter,
22:28 Speaker 05 small things where it's hard to talk about what could we do about that. And so sometimes, you know, I'll throw out a suggestion, like, well, is it absolutely necessary, based on your values, to share a bed with your partner every night? Do you need to be in the same room? Do you need to be in the same house? You know, allowing yourselves to really consider alternatives to what you've always seen on TV, or what you saw your parents do, or really a lot of the times, the thing that we're competing with is the fantasy in our minds about what a relationship should look like.
23:01 Manoush Zomorodi? So what do you think you're giving couples? Are you just sort of saying, like, why are you making a big deal out of something that really is more like a logistics problem? Are you giving them permission to stop getting in the way of their own happiness in some ways?
23:16 Speaker 05 Sure, sometimes it's permission, and sometimes also it's just floating the idea of, you know, your relationship seems really hard. I don't think your relationship should be that hard. You know, there are so many factors where we're trying to squeeze ourselves into something that doesn't work. And so I'll just ask them, you know, do you think this is worth your relationship? Because that's what's at stake here. There are some things we could test out, and I always bring it up as an experiment. Let's just do an experiment. Let's see how this works. If we try this for a month, for two months, and you're still in the same position, maybe there's something bigger happening that we need to talk about. But
24:01 Speaker 05 in the off-chance that we really are just arguing about the dishes, or we really are just arguing about your bedroom... If we fix that, can your relationship be easy again? And a lot of the time, I see that it really can be.
24:19 Speaker 05 One conflict that comes up a lot in my work is the difference in values between arriving on time and arriving looking and feeling your best. Neither one is wrong. But I had a great model for this with my parents. When I was growing up, we drove absolutely everywhere separately. You know, if you're going to be a little bit late, you arrive with my mom. And if you're arriving on time, you go with my dad. They had two minivans for only two kids, okay? We didn't go anywhere together. And one time, when I was about 12 years old, one of my closest friends finally worked up the courage to ask me about it. And I could tell she was so nervous, like I was about to reveal to her that my parents
25:04 Speaker 05 were secretly separated and she just figured it out. You know, now that I think about it, I bet her mom put her up to this.
25:13 Speaker 05 What's interesting is that her parents did go on to get divorced, and my parents stayed together for 23 years before my mom passed away. Now, do I think that's due to them commuting separately? Of course not. But I think it shows us two things. First, it shows us that any deviation from the norm can be met with curiosity and even judgment. It also shows us that sometimes when we decide to do things a little differently, we can avoid the difference between having a really challenging day as a couple or a smooth day by simply accepting our differences, not as a couple, but as individuals.
25:53 Manoush Zomorodi? This speaks to what you were saying earlier about people thinking that their relationships are quote unquote "hard." But if you remove the thing that's making it hard... It can go back to being easy?
26:06 Speaker 05 Yeah. So sometimes you have more serious discussions and I would consider children to be, that's a bigger discussion. So I have a couple who they both were very motivated to have children. And so they went through a round of IVF and it looked extremely promising, but in the end, they ended up having no viable embryos. Now during that time, she had so much pain during that process. Her hormones were out of whack and she was really at a point where she's like, I've made peace with the fact that I don't want, I can live without having kids. Like I don't have to have kids. I don't have to adopt.
26:49 Speaker 05 I don't have to go through the surrogacy route. Like I'm happy in our marriage. And her partner was very, very reluctant. So they kind of came to me to talk through this, you know, really to assess like, can we make this relationship work? It really became clear that he felt like he was letting his parents down. You know, he's the only child. So some of it was just accepting that this is not your grief to carry. You know, this is grief that you're feeling on behalf of your parents, who if they understood the situation, probably would be understanding. And even if they aren't, you know, this is your marriage or relationship. So come to find out, they were on the same page. They were trying to have kids for the sake of other people. If it would have been easy,
27:31 Speaker 05 they would have been great parents. But with the level of stress that it was putting on them individually and on the relationship, it just really wasn't worth it.
27:41 Speaker 05 Instead of trying to change our partners, what if we instead embraced their differences?
27:47 Manoush Zomorodi? There's a line in your talk that people loved and I really loved. And you said, "It's okay if people are confused about your relationship."
27:58 Speaker 05 It's okay if people are confused about your relationship. It was never theirs to understand in the first place. You know, it's so funny. That was a very late addition to the talk. So I was very surprised by their response to that. But that is the truth. A lot of times, we are so much more consumed with what people think about our relationship, people we haven't even met. You know, we're worried about how people are going to perceive things. You know, it doesn't matter if I invested 20 years into my relationship looking one way. If we decide that we want to do things a little differently now, that's OK. We have grown, we've evolved as people, and we want to explore something new. We want to keep growing and doing it on our terms.
28:43 Speaker 05 If we continue to accept the narrative that relationships are hard, then we'll continue to do nothing about it. If our relationships feel hard, I encourage us to reflect on what is hard about it. Is it really the relationship? Or is it external factors like our own personal trauma histories or work stress? If it really is your relationship, let's really think about what you and your partner are willing to do differently to enjoy it again. I want us to reject everything we've ever known about relationships and challenge ourselves to create a relationship that not only defies expectations, but honors the peculiarities
29:27 Speaker 05 that make us us. Thank you.
29:30 Manoush Zomorodi? That was Stephanie Yates Anya Boule. She is a marriage and family therapist. You can find her on her YouTube channel and watch her full talk at TED.com. On the show today, significant others. We have talked about spouses and friends, but what if the most significant person in your life is yourself?
29:59 Speaker 06 I'm Bella DePaulo. I'm 71 years old. I have always been single, and I always will be. And for the past several decades of my life, I have not only lived single, but I also study single people.
30:17 Manoush Zomorodi? Bella DePaulo is a social psychologist and one of the leading experts on single life. She has published countless books, studies, surveys, and articles on the subject.
30:29 Speaker 06 I write about what it means to be single in ways that reimagine single life from the stereotypes of how we're all sad and lonely and want nothing more than to un-single ourselves to what I have discovered in my life and so many other people like me, we'd love being single. We are happy and flourishing because we are single, not in spite of it.
31:03 Manoush Zomorodi? Despite all the research she's done, Bella says she still needs to defend her findings that people who live alone can do so by choice. Here she is on the TED stage.
31:16 Speaker 06 Even now, I keep getting reminded, get married and you will live happily ever after and you will never be lonely again. As children, we hear those stories in fairy tales. As grownups, we keep hearing them in all the novels and movies and TV shows that build up to a wedding. But here's the thing, that was never my story. I never wanted to get married. Living single was my happily ever after. But for the longest time, I never heard of such a thing as living single and loving it. Positive, affirming stories about single life would have resonated with me all those years ago. But those stories have never been
32:01 Speaker 06 part of our lives the way fairy tales have. I've made it my life's work to find the true stories of single life, stories no one is ever telling us.
32:15 Manoush Zomorodi? And you are still doing a lot of research, right, about these people who you call "single at heart"?
32:21 Speaker 06 Yes, people who are single, not as a default because they were unlucky in love or they just didn't find anyone. But instead, they are powerfully drawn to single life for what it offers them, the freedom and the autonomy and the opportunity to be true to yourself, if that's who you really are. I've gotten hundreds of emails and handwritten letters and social media contacts from single people. And they told me they never realized,
33:04 Speaker 06 until they came across my writings, that that wasn't something bad. That was a, could be a good thing to like being single. It didn't mean they were weird or abnormal or unhappy.
33:22 Manoush Zomorodi? For people who know they are single at heart, Bella says her research has been a real validation. But if you're wondering whether you are suited for the single life, she has a quiz for you. Question number one.
33:35 Speaker 06 Sure. The first one is, when you think about spending time alone, what thought comes to mind first? Is it, ah, sweet solitude? Or, oh, no, I might be lonely? In the quiz, 98% of people who are clearly single at heart say that they value their solitude. When people told me their life stories, they said things like, having time to myself is so important, it's like breathing.
34:16 Manoush Zomorodi? When we come back, more with Bella DiPaolo and her Single at Heart quiz. On the show today, significant others. I'm Manoush Zamirodi, and you're listening to the TED Radio Hour from NPR. Stay with us.
34:43 Speaker 00 Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors.
34:47 Speaker 04 This message comes from Google Workspace with Gemini. Ever notice how every new AI tool asks you to explain your business to it all over again? Google Workspace with Gemini skips that. You get Google's AI built right into the premium versions of Gmail, Google Docs, Sheets and more. No new tools, no extra logins, just one subscription that gives you personalized AI right inside your actual workflow. Try Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithgemini.
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36:21 Manoush Zomorodi? It's the TED Radio Hour from NPR. I'm Manoush Zomorodi. On the show today, significant others. And we were just talking to social psychologist Bella DePaulo. She is an expert on people who she calls "single at heart." And she has a quiz you can take to see if that's you.
36:41 Speaker 06 When you are thinking about making a big change in your life, such as embarking on a new career or moving across the country, do you prefer making the decision with a partner? Even if that means you do not pursue your favorite option? Or do you prefer making the decision that feels right to you, without worrying about whether a partner would approve or whether your decision might stand in the way of a partner's goals? And 96% of the people who are clearly single at heart say that they want to make the decision that feels right to them.
37:25 Manoush Zomorodi? Okay, and then there might be some people who say like, "Well, clearly, these people haven't learned the art of compromise, and that's why they're single." That's what being in a relationship is, is that you work together to figure out a path.
37:40 Speaker 06 Yeah, but no one gets through life without compromising. You compromise with your friends. You have to compromise at work. So this idea that, "Oh, only married people have the skill of compromising." No, that's not true.
37:57 Manoush Zomorodi? Fair enough. Let's keep going. I'm loving this. What's the next one?
38:01 Speaker 06 When you have had some minor mishaps, such as a fender bender, how do you feel? Either you would be relieved not to have to explain to anyone why you messed up, or you would want to have a partner to go home to and tell all about it. And most people who are single at heart don't want to have to explain to anyone why they messed up.
38:28 Manoush Zomorodi? I guess for me, like, my husband is a shoulder to cry on, but he also deals with our insurance.
38:34 Speaker 06 Right. I will concede that there are things I miss not having a partner. So I would love to have someone who took care of my car or someone who fixed my computer when it misbehaved or who swooped in and cleaned up the dishes after dinner. But then I'd want them to leave.
38:59 Manoush Zomorodi? It's funny, the most recent statistics say that over a quarter, nearly a third of households are single-person households. And when people usually say that, they say, "These are people who are living alone." And it's almost like in the tone that they say it.
39:16 Speaker 06 Yes.
39:17 Manoush Zomorodi? More and more people are living alone.
39:19 Speaker 06 Yes, and what they seem to say, often explicitly right after that, is, "That's why we have a loneliness epidemic." And the irony of that is that it may be the people who are single for a long time, especially the single at heart, who are least likely to end up alone. When psychologists actually started studying the real lives of single people, they found it's the single people who have more friends. It's the single people who are doing more than married people to stay in touch with their siblings.
40:03 Speaker 06 It's the single people who are more often tending to their parents, exchanging help with their neighbors, contributing to the life of their towns and cities. In contrast, when couples move in together or when they get married, they tend to be more insular. And they tend to do that even if they don't have kids. So they can't blame it on the kids. So the story we're told is that married people have the one. The untold, more revealing story is that single people have the ones.
40:43 Manoush Zomorodi? How do we know? Because I think there are some people who, yes, the most important person in their lives maybe is themselves, and they're very committed to living a single life. But maybe for people who, it just didn't happen for them, that they would like to potentially be paired up with someone.
41:00 Speaker 06 Right. If you... Look at single people in general, not just the single at heart. What you find is that women take to single life better than men do. They are more likely to be good at maintaining friendships. They are actually more likely to value having some time to themselves. Right now, if you look at people who are having a hard time being single, it often includes older men who have previously been married. And they have gotten used to having a wife
41:44 Speaker 06 who makes sure they have a social life and make sure there's food on the table and all the rest of it.
41:50 Manoush Zomorodi? Okay, let's go on to the next question, which is about indulgences.
41:55 Speaker 06 All right. When you are tempted to allow yourself your favorite indulgence, such as eating junk food or watching trashy TV, how do you feel? Either delighted to do exactly as you wish with no one else around? Or you prefer to have a spouse at your side, either to join you in your sloth or badger you to exert more self-control? And the single at heart are delighted to do exactly as we wish. What you hear most often is that it only goes one direction, that married couples help each other to stay healthy and do the right thing.
42:40 Speaker 06 When in fact, it could go either way.
42:43 Manoush Zomorodi? That's interesting because I had always heard that research had shown that people who were married had longer lives, longer and healthier lives.
42:53 Speaker 06 Yes, so if you look at the kinds of reports you will see in the media, they'll say, oh, married people have better blood pressure or whatever their metric is. But they only look at the people who are currently married, compare them to the people who are single and say, oh, look, married people win. But they're ignoring the people who got married and then got divorced and not because marriage was making them so healthy and happy.
43:28 Manoush Zomorodi? I can only guess that there are some people listening who think, well, you know, Bella is cherry picking the data to make her case about singledom because she's an advocate. She speaks for the other people who are happy to be single as well. But I think what you're also saying is that the data we're using to back up marriage or claims of loneliness epidemics are also cherry picking in some way, or defining health by, I guess, assumptions of what is good in society.
44:00 Speaker 06 Yes. What we think we know about single people is very much biased by what social scientists have chosen to study. So, for example, they have chosen to study loneliness, but only recently are they also studying solitude. And if we looked at people's comfort with being alone, that would change things.
44:34 Manoush Zomorodi? Hmm. Okay, so let's go to the last question about what happens when you go to bed at night.
44:40 Speaker 06 Let's see. Think about the possibility that when you go to sleep at night, there might not be anyone else in bed with you. How does that make you feel? And the people who are single at heart mostly say they are fine with that. In fact, some of them effused about it, saying how much they love getting to sleep in their own bed with no one else in it.
45:09 Manoush Zomorodi? I, I mean, not to be morbid, but the chances of someone who is partnered ending up in a bed alone are, I guess, 50/50 in some ways?
45:21 Speaker 06 Right. So if you marry, you have these options. You could end up divorced, you could end up widowed, or you could be the one who dies first. And in fact, some people say, no matter who is beside you, you always take that last step on your own.
45:48 Manoush Zomorodi? Do you feel that in some ways you're doing a service to people in that if you can take the fear out of being alone, I feel like that's what I hear all the time is like, oh, I just don't want them to end up lonely, to end up all alone when they're old, like by themselves. That is the number one thing I hear from people, like, well, I just don't want her to be alone when she's older.
46:12 Speaker 06 Yes. One thing that would save us from feeling so lonely is if we were more comfortable in solitude. And maybe we shouldn't be worried so much about the people who spend time alone and love their time alone. And we should be more worried about the people who can't be alone. Because being comfortable in solitude is a wonderful and underappreciated skill.
46:54 Manoush Zomorodi? That was Bella DePaulo. Her new book is called Single at Heart: The Power of Freedom and Heart-Fulfilling Joy of Single Life. You can see her talk at ted.npr.org. So this hour has been about significant others, our closest human companions. But what about man's best friend? I have to admit that I was never a dog lover until a few years ago, when I finally capitulated and got my kids a pup. But that pup decided that I was her special person. And now I finally understand why dog owners are so passionate about their canine friends. This is all I need in life. And the love they give them. It's unconditional, right? Ray, Rue?
47:39 Speaker 07 Yeah, what would you say, like, your favorite thing about having a dog is?
47:42 Manoush Zomorodi? The other day, I spent an afternoon with a TED speaker who has made a name for himself documenting dogs.
47:49 Speaker 07 Yeah, that's good.
47:50 Manoush Zomorodi? And the humans who love them. Rue, you're gonna be famous?
47:53 Speaker 07 Yeah.
47:54 Manoush Zomorodi? He's like, does famous bring treats?
47:56 Speaker 07 Yeah, I could get down with this fame thing.
47:58 Manoush Zomorodi? Elias Weiss-Friedman is known as the dog-est to his over 7 million followers on Instagram.
48:05 Manoush Zomorodi? Where he posts photos of dogs he meets on the streets.
48:08 Speaker 07 Black Lab walking that way.
48:10 Manoush Zomorodi? Since he started doing this over a decade ago, Elias has taken pictures of over 50,000 dogs.
48:16 Speaker 07 Excuse me, excuse me, may I take a photo of your dog? May I take a photo of your dog? May I take a quick picture of your corgi before he jumps in the car? Yes.
48:23 Manoush Zomorodi? In certain neighborhoods in New York City, people recognize him.
48:27 Speaker 07 You know who I am?
48:28 Manoush Zomorodi? But he has become the slow, soothing voice of dog lovers everywhere.
48:33 Speaker 07 Ziggy's also been patient.
48:34 Manoush Zomorodi? And even people who don't recognize him are thrilled to talk about their beloved doggo.
48:39 Speaker 07 Any funny personality quirks about him?
48:41 Manoush Zomorodi? People like Jason and Lauren Schneider.
48:43 Speaker 08 He's an aggressive kisser. He will pin you down on the couch and not stop.
48:49 Speaker 07 He's extremely loving you, so.
48:50 Speaker 08 Yes.
48:51 Manoush Zomorodi? After a quick chat with their humans, the doggist gets down to business, making all kinds of noises to get Dash's attention. And the shot that will get them both thousands of likes and comments.
49:06 Speaker 09 Oh, my God, he's so cute. Look at those lashes.
49:10 Manoush Zomorodi? So 50,000 photos that you've taken of dogs. Do you, do you ever feel surprised by what people tell you about why they love their dogs so much?
49:21 Speaker 07 The stories can be a little bit surprising and funny. Like, they were like, he ate a hundred dollar bill and pooped it out intact. It was just sort of like, even if a person were to do it, you would never tell that story. But because it's a dog, we just have this candid openness that we can just be funny and share these things and revel in it. And I feel like dogs are furry icebreakers. If it weren't for, for dogs, then how would I talk to people?
49:51 Manoush Zomorodi? So I read this crazy statistic that over 40% of US households now have a dog and that that number, the number of households, that has doubled over the last 30 years. What is it that you think people need? Why do they want a dog in their life so much?
50:09 Speaker 07 People are having children later and so dogs are like a bridge to children or a test. Also, I think we recognize that we're in a stressful time. Things are very divisive politically and dogs don't have any of that baggage and they they give us a sense of love and appreciation, non-judgmentally. I feel like on Instagram, you scrolling through your feed, everything either makes you jealous, upset, stressed out, and I think my project, The Dog Us, was to try and be an antidote to that. Where it's like sharing pictures of dogs, I'm spreading joy and it's non-polarizing. Dogs are the one thing we can all agree on. But yeah, enough about me.
50:54 Speaker 07 You showed me a picture of your dog, Lottie.
50:55 Manoush Zomorodi? Yeah.
50:56 Speaker 07 Who's a Havanese, kind of a rare breed.
50:58 Manoush Zomorodi? Yeah.
50:58 Speaker 07 How has Lottie changed your life?
51:00 Manoush Zomorodi? Well, my kids joke that we're turning into the same person, human, dog, that we are turning into the same thing, which I think is true. I think she's made me nicer, actually.
51:10 Speaker 07 Do you remember the person you were before, Lottie?
51:12 Manoush Zomorodi? I mean, I didn't have all those tummy rubs in my life and like the soulful looking into my eyes and just feeling very understood. No offense to husband, children, parents, siblings, humans in my life, but she's got my number and it's almost disconcerting in some ways, but also just so great to come home to at the end of the day.
51:37 Speaker 07 There's something a little bit more pure about your dogs, really, so if you can't stay mad at them.
51:40 Manoush Zomorodi? No.
51:40 Speaker 07 They cut through all of your self-consciousness and apprehension and doubt and they just run in at first, you know?
51:51 Manoush Zomorodi? That disarming sincerity is what makes dogs so easy to connect to. But their support and companionship can also save lives, especially for people with service dogs. Elias interviewed Kristin Sells, a veteran medic in the US Army.
52:07 Speaker 09 I'll cry if I talk about him too much. He saved my life.
52:10 Manoush Zomorodi? And he met her service dog Ziggy, a black lab who helped Kristin through her PTSD.
52:15 Speaker 07 In what ways do you think he's saved your life?
52:17 Speaker 09 I mean, his love of life. I still have my bad days, but he makes my bad days way better than they were. I love his eyes.
52:23 Speaker 07 That's what I noticed about him as well. Was it intimidating when you were trying to decide whether or not to reach out for a service dog?
52:30 Speaker 09 Absolutely. I thought other people needed one more than me, people that had gone through the worst thing. When I was on more medications than I could remember to take, decided that it was time to give myself help. I lived for years just getting up and going through the motions. And now I feel again this amazing dog. I'm experiencing life again.
52:49 Speaker 07 Thank you for your service.
52:50 Speaker 09 Thank you.
52:50 Speaker 07 And thank you for sharing your beautiful service dog.
52:56 Manoush Zomorodi? Elias Weiss-Friedman is the dog-est. You can find him on Instagram and see him on the TED stage at ted.com. His book is This Dog Will Change Your Life.
53:09 Manoush Zomorodi? Thank you so much for listening to the show this week and for listening all throughout the past year. We are so grateful. If you like what you've been hearing, get something out of it. Want something more different? Email us at [email protected] . We read every message. We love hearing from you.
53:31 Manoush Zomorodi? This episode was produced by Katie Monteleone, James Delahoussaye, Hershana Hada, and Fiona Guerin. It was edited by Sanaa Zemeckinpour, James Delahoussaye, and me. Our production staff at NPR also includes Rachel Faulkner White and Matthew Cloutier. Our executive producer is Irene Noguchi. Our audio engineers were Tiffany Vera Castro, Jimmy Keeley, Zoe Vangenhoven, Patrick Murray, and Robert Rodriguez. Our theme music was written by Ramtin Arablouei. Our partners at TED are Chris Anderson, Roxane Hylash, Alejandra Salazar, and Daniela Balorezo. I'm Manoush Zamirodi, and you've been listening to the TED Radio Hour from NPR.
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