Thoma Bravo Loses Medallia, OpenAI Drops ChatGPT 5.5, Bob Iger Returns | Diet TBPN

Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after. Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04John Coogan?

  We're going to get that sound ready because we got some bad news. Toma Bravo is taking a massive write down on a software company called Medallia. Toma Bravo is reportedly handing over the software company Medallia to creditors after restructuring negotiations failed to materialize. This is a $5.1 billion equity wipeout for the firm who bought the business for $6.4 billion in 2021. There's some background in Reuters that I think I should read through and then you can sort of give me your analysis and your and what you're seeing on the timeline around take. So from Reuters, exclusive, Toma Bravo nears agreement to turn software firm Medallia over to creditors. That does not sound good. Private equity firm Toma Bravo is nearing an agreement to hand over software firm Medallia

• 0:47John Coogan?

  to lenders, wrapping up months of restructuring negotiations. The move will wipe out 5.1 billion in equity. Medallia has struggled in recent months under the weight of $3 billion of debt, which it owes to Blackstone, KKR, Apollo Group, and Antares Capital. Toma Bravo, Blackstone, and KKR declined to comment. Apollo and Medallia didn't immediately return Quest for comments to Reuters. So like other software companies, Medallia's valuation has been hit in recent months over concerns that its services will eventually be supplanted by artificial intelligence. What does Medallia do? Medallia provides software that collects and analyzes customer and employee feedback for companies. We've had some startups, some of them backed by Sequoia Capital, that are using AI to do this exact thing. That's potential disruption.

• 1:32John Coogan?

  And then there's also rolling around.

• 1:33Jordi Hays?

  Their main rivals, Qualtrics.

• 1:35John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:36Jordi Hays?

  But yeah, and maybe you said this already, but you know that Sequoia was one of the big backers of Medallia.

• 1:41John Coogan?

  I didn't know that.

• 1:42Jordi Hays?

  When they were a private company.

• 1:43John Coogan?

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:44Jordi Hays?

  I mean, they're still private.

• 1:45John Coogan?

  There's a long history of that with the firm that was before Zenefits was called like SuccessFactors. Lars Dahlgaard did that deal.

• 1:52Jordi Hays?

  Sequoia is a real winner here. They did $35 million in 2012. They did another $50 million in 2014, and then they later led a $150 million round.

• 2:02John Coogan?

  Wow. And then eventually, did they take it public or did they sell it for $6 billion to Tomo Bravo directly from the private? Was Medallia ever a public company? That would be interesting.

• 2:11Jordi Hays?

  I think they were.

• 2:12John Coogan?

  You look that up and I will keep reading from this to give some more backstory. So, private equity firms invested heavily in the software sector when interest rates were low following the peak of the COVID-19 pandemic. We all remember 3% interest rates. It was the golden era of startups and growth. All of the DCFs were massive and then, of course, the valuations came down once the interest rates went up. So, investors have become increasingly nervous about the sustainability of high valuations assigned to some of those assets and the debt raised to buy them. If you're on a floating rate, not, you know, these firms are not necessarily backed by a 30-year fixed mortgage like your house. Your interest rate went up and the debt payments ballooned and if the cash flow from the business has

• 2:54John Coogan?

  not also ballooned, you could be in trouble like this company potentially is. Blackstone, KKR and Antares hold some of the debt in traded and non-traded funds. FSKKR Capital Corp. marked the debt at 79 cents on the dollar in its last quarterly report and of course, debt is senior to equity. So, what does that mean for the equity? Not good and that's why this deal is happening. Apollo Debt Solutions marked it at 74 cents on the dollar. So, a question about can they even recover, you know, the full value of that debt? The equity is obviously in deep, deep trouble. So, Blackstone's global head of private credit Brad Marshall said on a conference call in February that Medallia had been, quote, "underperforming, not because of anything related to AI, but due to what we believe

• 3:35John Coogan?

  to be execution-driven issues." So, there is a question of, well, if they restructure and this company gets in the hands of creditors, maybe they can roll out AI features and become an AI winner and accelerate the top line and restructure the debt.

• 3:50Jordi Hays?

  I saw someone was sharing that there were, there were some salespeople doing kind of some anonymous reporting and saying a lot of the reps were struggling to hit quotas, you know, like basically delivering like 20% of quotas, something like that. So, just basically getting outcompeted in the market.

• 4:05John Coogan?

  Sure, yeah.

• 4:06Jordi Hays?

  And just go back to the earlier point. Yes, Medallia went public in 2019.

• 4:10John Coogan?

  2019.

• 4:11Jordi Hays?

  On the NIC, was taken private July 26, 2021.

• 4:15John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 4:16Jordi Hays?

  It had been, it had been trading around the $5 billion mark prior to the take private at 6.4.

• 4:23John Coogan?

  So, Tomo Bravo, after taking it private, installed a new leadership team in early of 2025. Marshall? The head of Blackstone's Global Head of Private Credit said that they were working on a turnaround plan and we expect there to be discussions around the capital structure. And so people are blackbelling on the timeline. Brandon says, yes, I am sure this is the bottom in software and we won't get worse from here. Not good signs. This is, you know, potentially one of those cockroaches that Jamie Dimon is worrying about. There's another post that seems like it was deleted, but

• 4:55Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, I mean, so the

• 4:56John Coogan?

  Some of the screenshot here.

• 4:57Jordi Hays?

  The tough thing is that everyone involved here

• 5:00John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 5:00Jordi Hays?

  Has been on a kind of a press tour saying like, everything's fine.

• 5:03John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 5:04Jordi Hays?

  Like, we're all good.

• 5:05John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 5:05Jordi Hays?

  AI is going to be an accelerant, but even ignoring the AI

• 5:10John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:10Jordi Hays?

  question, a lot of these businesses no longer have, you know, are founder-led. They're competing against other companies that are founder-led. And yeah, it's just kind of credit to Jamie Dimon for his comments.

• 5:25John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:25Jordi Hays?

  Saying like, you know, I don't think this is over.

• 5:28John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:28Jordi Hays?

  When you had First Brands and some other shutdowns.

• 5:32John Coogan?

  Yeah. In the previous startup era, there were, I mean, I feel like it would have been hard to raise for just like a vanilla Qualtrics or Medallia competitor and just saying like, pre-AI, like, we're just gonna build SaaS and we're just gonna build a crud app and

• 5:48Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 5:48John Coogan?

  write software.

• 5:49Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, new players, that company, Aru.

• 5:51John Coogan?

  Yeah, that's a very different approach.

• 5:53Jordi Hays?

  Simulation.

• 5:54John Coogan?

  Simulation. Yeah, that's a very different approach.

• 5:56Jordi Hays?

  And then we had another one, I'm blanking on the name, it was a YC founder. He had gone through YC a few years ago, but his company is taking off doing

• 6:05John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 6:05Jordi Hays?

  Doing something, something similar. So people have been well aware

• 6:09John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 6:09Jordi Hays?

  of the opportunity that Medallia and Qualtrics have owned.

• 6:14John Coogan?

  Yeah. But in other debt-related news, Xi Jinping wants to use the International Monetary Fund to rescue the array of distressed Chinese loans around the world. This is an interesting Piece from the Wall Street Journal opinion. Noah Smith is laughing. He says lol. Belt and Road failed so hard. Xi Jinping is incompetent. That is, this is very narrative.

• 6:41Jordi Hays?

  Do not go to China, Noah.

• 6:43John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 6:43Jordi Hays?

  Do not go to China.

• 6:44John Coogan?

  Yeah, this is, uh, this is, this is an interesting thing, but maybe a potential bargaining chip in all of the other discussions, you know? In, in tech, Tyler always points out that tech is like too focused on chips when it comes to Chinese diplomacy. That there are many, many other questions around trade and what Apple's doing and rare earths. And there are so many, and just the broad history of the Chinese empire that play into what their Taiwan policy is, how they will interact in the Middle East. And we tend to focus it all on AI. It's all about the data centers and the chips. And perhaps there are more things, and this is one example of something else that is a key factor in a broader negotiation.

• 7:26John Coogan?

  That includes chip exports and also rare earths and also talent movements. And whether or not Manus will be able to move over to Meta and a million other things. And so that is the job of these world leaders is to swirl around all the different trade offs and get to hopefully a, a, a good deal for both sides.

• 7:46Jordi Hays?

  Breaking news.

• 7:48John Coogan?

  Merriam-Webster.

• 7:48Jordi Hays?

  GPT 5.5 is out.

• 7:50John Coogan?

  Oh, it is.

• 7:52Jordi Hays?

  Is out. Introducing GPT 5.5, a new class of intelligence for real work and powering agents built to understand complex goals. Use tools, check its work and carry more tasks through to completion. It marks a new way of getting computer work done. Now available in chat GPT and Codex.

• 8:08John Coogan?

  I like this demo of the Rubik's Cube. GPT 5.5 excels at writing and debugging code, researching online, analyzing data, creating documents and spreadsheets, operating software and moving across tools until a task is finished. GPT 5.5 delivers this step up in intelligence without compromising on speed. Matches GPT 5.4 per token latency in real world serving. There's the model card there and there are some other posts.

• 8:33Jordi Hays?

  We will wait for the reactions to come in. We will, we'll gather them, we'll summarize them, but the team cooked.

• 8:38John Coogan?

  Cooked. Congratulations to everyone that worked on this.

• 8:41Jordi Hays?

  Um, let's head over to Merriam-Webster. John, what do you got?

• 8:44John Coogan?

  Merriam-Webster. Merriam-Webster added a new word to the dictionary, I believe. And I feel like the pace of vernacular. I don't know. I, I mean, it's in merriam-webster.com. Oh, okay. Slang and trending. They must be working overtime over there because the number of wombo's, if you're not familiar with wombo's, these are word combos, uh, things like queech.

• 9:08Jordi Hays?

  Lorraine.

• 9:09John Coogan?

  Lorraine. The lore plus explain or queech.

• 9:12Jordi Hays?

  I could tell, John, can you Lorraine GPT 5.5?

• 9:16John Coogan?

  Yes. Give you the lore.

• 9:18Jordi Hays?

  And explain.

• 9:18John Coogan?

  Tell you about what happened with 4.5, 4.0, 3.5, 3 Da Vinci. Give you the whole lore, but then also explain what this model is capable of. That's the full Lorraine of GPT 5.5. Uh, but we're not here to talk about Lorraine. We're here to talk about choppaganger, which is a new word in Merriam-Webster, the dictionary. It's basically the main dictionary as far as I'm concerned. Choppaganger is a term for a less attractive version of someone or something. So whoever's going out there and distilling 5.5 into sort of a chopped version of it, that will be the choppaganger of the official GPT 5.5. So stay away from the choppagangers unless you're, unless you're really down on your luck

• 10:03John Coogan?

  and you need, and you need a Chinese open source model to do something for you. Then, uh, you know, buyer beware because it might, it might have some flaws. Separately, there is, there is new news from Michael Kratzios that, uh, the government seems to be taking, uh, anthropic and open AI's messaging around distillation very seriously and is setting up a task force. We can read a little bit more about this later, but setting up a task force to actually figure out how to prevent distillation at scale. As the models get bigger, it's more and more of an economic impact. When you're talking about, uh, you know, a hundred million dollar training run and. A Chinese lab can distill it and sneak the weights out and sneak the, you know, exfiltrate the data. That's a lot different of an economic impact from stealing something

• 10:45John Coogan?

  that, I don't know, costs billions to train or billions to put together. Good news there. Hopefully they're successful. It was also sort of a white pill to see a lot of the labs working together to understand, hey, we're seeing this weird amount of data go to this particular company. Are you seeing the same thing? Or it's a shell company and we have five shell companies in these areas that are asking for these queries. And then the other lab says, oh yeah, we're actually getting something similar. And if you puzzle piece those together, all of a sudden you're getting a really solid map of what a frontier system is capable of. And so it feels like we, the industry, are the victim of a distillation attack, even if it might not register among a single lab, because that single lab is

• 11:26John Coogan?

  only getting hit with like one third or one fifth of the total attack.

• 11:31Jordi Hays?

  Subject: Adversarial distillation of American AI models. The United States leads the world in AI technologies. That lead reflects decades of foundational research, bold entrepreneurial risk-taking, and hundreds of billions of dollars in annual private investment. American AI leadership drives economic growth, strengthens national security, and advances the frontiers of science, medicine, and human knowledge. The breakthroughs emerging from American industry raise living standards, expand opportunity, and improve lives around the world. However, the United States has information indicating that foreign entities principally based in China are engaged in deliberate industrial-scale campaigns to distill US frontier AI systems, leveraging tens of thousands of proxy accounts to evade detection and using jailbreaking techniques to expose proprietary information. These coordinated campaigns

• 12:16Jordi Hays?

  systematically extract capabilities from American AI models, exploiting-

• 12:21John Coogan?

  I don't like that. That sounds bad.

• 12:23Jordi Hays?

  That at all. Exploiting American expertise and innovation.

• 12:28John Coogan?

  Every AI researcher needs this button on their desk. If they just attacked a distillation attack, fire it off and the security team will come and make sure you're locked down. And it does seem like overall, all the labs are being more careful about how the APIs roll out, how they're doing KYC, how they're doing different partnerships and stuff. And I think it's all a back and forth and a dynamic. But it's fun that this new model is available and people will play with it. And I'm sure we'll see some cool stuff.

• 13:01Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, and Quen 3.6 rolled out yesterday. People are like, wow, it's almost as good as Opus 4.5. Yeah, because they distill.

• 13:14John Coogan?

  Don't ask its name.

• 13:16Jordi Hays?

  Anyways, I'm glad that Kratos is on it and I'm glad that the labs can coordinate and work together on this one.

• 13:21John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 13:22Jordi Hays?

  More breaking news.

• 13:23John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 13:24Jordi Hays?

  And unfortunate, but we had talked about this previously, Meta is cutting 10% of their workforce, which is 8,000 employees.

• 13:31John Coogan?

  But this has been a telltale for a while.

• 13:33Jordi Hays?

  Eliminating 6,000 open roles.

• 13:35John Coogan?

  Yeah. I saw Microsoft was doing something similar. They're offering early retirement to something like 7% of the workforce, trying to lean out a little bit. I'm sure the debate will continue to rage over the underlying motivations. These companies can be big and sometimes maybe they're too big, maybe there's AI gains, maybe there's different investment strategies. We will have to see where they are moving chips around, what projects they are actually cutting, what projects they are doubling down on, because these companies are also hiring at all times effectively. Well, Christoph had some actual media ideas for the tech industry. He says there's not enough media in tech. He's upset.

• 14:16Jordi Hays?

  We need more tech positive media.

• 14:19John Coogan?

  Media, for sure. So he says, silent library with founders. Winner gets investment.

• 14:25Jordi Hays?

  What is silent library?

• 14:26John Coogan?

  Silent library, so you're, is this like a webcam that observes?

• 14:31Jordi Hays?

  Silent library is a television show. It had four seasons. It's a game show.

• 14:36John Coogan?

  Oh, it's a game show. Game shows are fun. I could see a game show being, being fun, at least different.

• 14:41Jordi Hays?

  Six friends vying for a cash prize. If only they can remain silent as one of them is forced to endure a bizarre stunt while seated in a library.

• 14:50John Coogan?

  Okay, okay.

• 14:51Jordi Hays?

  Uh, what else? Jackass with founders.

• 14:54John Coogan?

  What does that mean? How, how do you make that tech related? Maybe like humanoid robots? Like, I, I, when I think of Johnny Knoxville, I just think of riding, bull riding effectively. And so I imagine like riding some sort of, you know, robotic bull would be it. But, you know, it's very dangerous. Like the, the, the team that worked with like Dan Margera and Johnny Knoxville, uh, they had some serious injuries from time to time. And, and I, I don't know if it's in your best interest to be a founder and be like, yeah, I need to, I need to launch my startup. So I gotta go in the ring with a mechanical bull and potentially break my arm and not be able to code. And it seems rough, but would be entertaining and with the right twist, I, I believe it could work. Interview founders while going ghost hunting.

• 15:38John Coogan?

  I feel like paranormal tech content. Jesse Michaels doesn't get enough credit here, you know?

• 15:43Jordi Hays?

  He is a technology podcast.

• 15:45John Coogan?

  It's in, it's in the technology charts. And it charts high. Like it's up there and he has an incredible pedigree, great investor. And also, uh, you know, has, uh, some of the best reporting on aliens and paranormal activity and conspiracy theories. And I, I guess he just hasn't cracked the way to bring a founder along. But if you're, if you're friends with Jesse Michaels are, are in touch, maybe you just tag along for a little cameo on one of his videos. And that's all the PR you need.

• 16:14Jordi Hays?

  Founders give their pitches while skydiving. Can you?

• 16:18John Coogan?

  I like skydiving.

• 16:19Jordi Hays?

  Can you talk while skydiving?

• 16:21John Coogan?

  Uh, with the right headset.

• 16:22Jordi Hays?

  Have you gone skydiving?

• 16:23John Coogan?

  No, but I like the idea and I like the videos.

• 16:25Jordi Hays?

  Have I told you the story where I was, I was in, on an overnight flight back from Europe?

• 16:30John Coogan?

  No.

• 16:31Jordi Hays?

  I'm sitting on a, on a plane.

• 16:33John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 16:33Jordi Hays?

  And I'm awake, I can't sleep.

• 16:35John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 16:36Jordi Hays?

  And out of the shadows, John Wick.

• 16:40John Coogan?

  Oh.

• 16:41Jordi Hays?

  Starts walking up the aisle.

• 16:42John Coogan?

  Keanu Reeves. Yeah, the real actor.

• 16:45Jordi Hays?

  It's effectively like 2 a.m.

• 16:46John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 16:47Jordi Hays?

  And Keanu Reeves is like walking at me on this plane in the middle of the night.

• 16:51John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 16:52Jordi Hays?

  Um, we ended up talking for like five minutes.

• 16:54John Coogan?

  Really?

• 16:54Jordi Hays?

  It was cool.

• 16:54John Coogan?

  That's cool.

• 16:55Jordi Hays?

  And he went and then went back to his seat.

• 16:57John Coogan?

  And, uh, yeah, well, he stayed on the plane. He did not.

• 17:00Jordi Hays?

  Super, super nice guy.

• 17:02John Coogan?

  What else do they have here? SF party, I'm schmacked videos. I don't know I'm schmacked.

• 17:07Jordi Hays?

  Wow. Unc. You're unc. You got, you guys know. Uh, I kinda remember, but, uh.

• 17:11John Coogan?

  You remember?

• 17:12Jordi Hays?

  I need to remember. Basically, this was this whole like, um, like you could call it a media company, but it was really like a guy that would make party videos.

• 17:19John Coogan?

  Okay. What, what era are we talking?

• 17:21Jordi Hays?

  For every college.

• 17:22John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 17:22Jordi Hays?

  So it was really popular, probably 2010 to 2013.

• 17:26John Coogan?

  Okay, okay.

• 17:27Jordi Hays?

  And I'll, I, I will say a lot of people use these videos as a sort of college guide.

• 17:32John Coogan?

  Okay, okay, okay.

• 17:33Jordi Hays?

  So, so, um, I'm sure, I'm sure they have billions, millions of video, uh, of views at this point.

• 17:38John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kevin Kelly, the founder of Wired, had some incredible predictions in 2016. Let's read through them. Summary of the inevitable, understanding the 12 technological forces that will shape our future. This was Kevin Kelly's book from 2016. According to Kelly, much of what will happen in the next 30 years is inevitable. The future will bring with it even more screens, tracking and lack of privacy. In the book, he outlines 12 trends that will forever change the ways we work, learn and communicate. Becoming, moving from fixed products to always upgrading services and subscriptions. That has definitely happened. Uh, we're moving away from even seats. Everything's consumption based now. Cognifying, making everything much smarter, using cheap, powerful AI that we get from the cloud.

• 18:23John Coogan?

  Nailed it.

• 18:24Jordi Hays?

  That, that is fantastic prediction for, assuming he wrote it.

• 18:28John Coogan?

  Pre-transform.

• 18:29Jordi Hays?

  He actually wrote it probably in 2015.

• 18:31John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:31Jordi Hays?

  Published in 2016.

• 18:33John Coogan?

  But he's the creator of Wired. He's been tapped into tech his entire career. Depending on unstoppable streams of real time for everything. For sure. Turning all surfaces into screens, that definitely happened. Your toaster can watch

• 18:47Jordi Hays?

  Screening.

• 18:47John Coogan?

  TV now. Shifting society from one where we own assets to one where instead we have access to all services at all times. Collaboration at mass scale. On my imaginary sharing meter index, we are still two out of 10. Filtering, harnessing intense personalization in order to anticipate our desires. Remixing, unbundling existing products into their most primitive parts and then recombining in all possible ways. That's definitely happening. Coconut simulator, unironically, an example of that. Interacting, immersing ourselves inside of computers to maximize their engagement. Tracking, employing total surveillance for the benefit of citizens and consumers. Sounds scary. Potentially a good outcome if things are done properly. Promoting good questions is far more valuable than good answers.

• 19:28Jordi Hays?

  You're out.

• 19:29John Coogan?

  What?

• 19:30Jordi Hays?

  You think total surveillance is potentially a good outcome?

• 19:31John Coogan?

  Well, he says total surveillance for the benefit of citizens and consumers. So, if there is a black box where my Netflix recommend, where my Netflix activity exists, where no Netflix employee can see it because it's encrypted, but it can make great recommendations and recommend me the next great show that I will actually enjoy, I'm cool with that surveillance.

• 19:50Jordi Hays?

  For the benefit of John Coogan.

• 19:51John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah. There is, there is a surveillance bull case. Constructing a planetary system connecting all humans and machines into a global matrix. Okay, that one, we're still waiting on. But a lot of good, interesting predictions. Jason Schuman says, wild how accurate these predictions were. And they were, in fact.

• 20:08Jordi Hays?

  Wow. More breaking news in the Journal. Bob Iger is returning to where?

• 20:14John Coogan?

  Disney.

• 20:15Jordi Hays?

  Thrive.

• 20:15John Coogan?

  Thrive. No way. That's amazing.

• 20:18Jordi Hays?

  Back to Thrive.

• 20:19John Coogan?

  Love it.

• 20:20Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, I think he's been an LP in Thrive, but he also bought a piece of Thrive.

• 20:25John Coogan?

  Yeah, that's right. Okay, well, that'll be a good next act for him. I'm very interested to see where he goes. There's a whole alumni class coming together. Reed Hastings is out and on to the next thing. We'll see where they go, hopefully.

• 20:38Jordi Hays?

  Back to Intel. Intel announced its first quarter earnings after the bell on Thursday, beating analysts' expectations on the top and bottom line and providing better-than-anticipated Q2 guidance on strong data center sales. Intel said it expects revenue of 13.8 to 14.8 billion for the second quarter. Wall Street was anticipating 13 billion. And as of this morning, they were, they were at around 100, 100. Times PE and so only up for Intel.

• 21:09John Coogan?

  Climbing the ranks, climbing the ranks. Tesla also released Q1 earnings, revenue of 22.4 billion versus 21.4 billion estimated. So they beat on top line. They also beat on net income, 1.45 billion versus 1.17 billion estimate. The interesting article in the journal was that Elon was being more cautious about Tesla, talking, saying, I think we need to get realistic about some timelines. So he is certainly not pumping everyone up and he's trying to sort of reset around the fundamentals.

• 21:48John Coogan?

  And so we will see where that goes. It is a wild timeline that SpaceX, if it goes out at 1.75 trillion, will be bigger than Tesla, which is sitting around 1.1, 1.2 trillion these days. So still both huge.

• 22:01Jordi Hays?

  Credit to Bubble Boy over on X. Two hours ago, he says, everyone asks me about how I'm playing earnings. He says doubling down, 25% of my portfolio is in Intel calls.

• 22:13John Coogan?

  Wow, there we go, Bubble Boy. Congrats.

• 22:15Jordi Hays?

  Well done. Well played.

• 22:17John Coogan?

  Stuff. Well, leave us five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Sign up for our newsletter at tvpn.com. Throw that flashbang, Jordy, because we are out of here.

• 22:25Jordi Hays?

  Been an honor.

• 22:26John Coogan?

  It's been an honor and a pleasure.

• 22:27Jordi Hays?

  Thanks for hanging out with us. We love you.

• 22:29John Coogan?

  And we will see you tomorrow.

• 22:30Jordi Hays?

  We'll see you soon.

• 22:31John Coogan?

  Goodbye.