Pod Insights TBPN The Cournot Equation, Micron’s $200B Bet, Hollywood vs. Seedance 2.0 | Diet TBPN About this episode Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after.
Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:02 John Coogan? It's the year of the fire horse.
0:03 Jordi Hays? And we get to celebrate it twice. Because I remember we talked about it at the beginning of the year. But the Chinese New Year did not start until today.
0:11 John Coogan? It's Lunar New Year, right? Worshippers burned large incense sticks on Monday outside a temple in Hong Kong to mark the Lunar New Year.
0:18 Jordi Hays? There we go.
0:18 John Coogan? Which falls on Tuesday. People around Asia celebrate the start of the year of the horse.
0:22 Jordi Hays? In the Ultra Dome, it's the year of the horse.
0:25 John Coogan? Perpetual. Every year, I think so. Everyone is talking about the Korno equilibrium, at least Dario, Amodei, and Dwar Kesh Patel are.
0:34 Jordi Hays? And you.
0:34 John Coogan? And me, and some folks on the timeline. We're going back and forth and basically trying to get to this question.
0:39 Jordi Hays? I feel like we should give the context on this, on the titling strategy at least. Because we call the run of shit, like, we'll title an essay, "Why is no one talking about the Korno equilibrium?" Because this one guy had this super viral thread like a year or two ago. And the title was, "Why is no one talking about Marc Andreessen?" And we were laughing about it so much because he's one of the most talked about.
1:03 John Coogan? Oh, yeah.
1:03 Jordi Hays? Investors in venture.
1:05 John Coogan? He's on the Midas list constantly. He's written essays and books.
1:09 Jordi Hays? Everyone's talking about.
1:10 John Coogan? Been viral a million times.
1:11 Jordi Hays? And he's someone that, yeah, he's someone that everyone in the industry has an opinion on already. He's not like a Midas lister.
1:19 John Coogan? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:20 Jordi Hays? Up there, but not a lot of people. It's like, everyone's talking about it. But in this case.
1:24 John Coogan? The basic idea is that if there's only a few players in a given market, you can think about, you know, any, any specific market, lemonade stands or whatever. And they aren't competing on price, they will compete on supply. And they'll try to predict what their competitors are doing and then respond accordingly. And this is really, really relevant to the AI lab discussion because you can tell that even though all the leaders of the AI labs say, "I don't think about the competition, I don't talk about the competition, I'll use general terms," they're all obsessed with what everyone else is doing and they think about it constantly, very clearly. And if someone's buying 10 billion a compute over here, they're going to counter with eight over there, try and jump to 12. And everyone's sort of keying off of each other. You know, Microsoft pauses, AWS goes all in, there's all these.
2:10 John Coogan? Like horse races. It's why semi-analysis exists and provides great, you know, cross-functional data. Outside of tech, there's this, there's this discussion that I see that's always funny to me where people would be like, the price to earnings ratio.
2:23 Jordi Hays? Brian says they don't want you to talk about.
2:24 John Coogan? They don't want us to talk about it. They don't want us to talk about it for sure. There's this discussion. I saw him say, the price to earnings ratio for OpenAI and Anthropic is just simply too high. And I was like, earnings? These companies are losing money. They don't have a price to earnings ratio. It's divided by zero.
2:41 Jordi Hays? This is gonna blow your mind.
2:42 John Coogan? Yeah, it's so much worse than you think, right? They're not making any money. The other side of things is the inference factory. So this is essentially a manufacturing business. You have variable costs, so GPUs, power, engineering overhead, and then your revenue is subscriptions, API usage, and enterprise contracts. And so when you just look at inference, you see positive contribution margin. And we can see that because we can compare the cost to inference a model of the GPT-5 class size or the OPUS 4.5 size. You can see, what does it look like to run an open source version of that model on commodity hardware? It's way, way cheaper than what you pay to Anthropic or OpenAI, so they must have good margins.
3:25 John Coogan? And everyone sort of agrees at this point that inference margins are in fact healthy. The question is, how do you balance those two pieces? And when do you risk over-investing? And that's sort of this Kornow game of chicken that everyone's playing. The Kornow equilibrium comes when a small number of labs in oligopoly effectively choose supply at the frontier level, and then the market clears at a high price for frontier access. So choosing supply in this case means how many data centers get built, how many GPUs get ordered, but also how much low-latency capacity is allocated to the top tier. So, you know, right now, they just, OpenAI just did the Cerebrus deal, there's Claude Fast, and there's a whole bunch of different modes
4:01 John Coogan? that will deliver faster inference. And how many of those fast queries you get, how much, how much of the best chips are allocated to a particular tier that you're paying for is an economic question for the labs. There's a ton of developers and knowledge workers who are happy to pay hundreds of dollars a month or more, but they always want the best available model. This is most people in executive roles in startups. Yeah, I got my $200 a month subscription. I'll pay 250 or 100 or whatever, a couple hundred bucks, and it just makes me better at my job. I just do whatever I need to do. But. Don't give me the old thing. I want the best. I want to know that the hallucination rate is as low as possible.
4:42 Jordi Hays? 1% of the time, it makes a career-ending mistake. So having a product, not just an API business, gives you leverage because at some point, the models are smart enough where you don't need to train them, you don't need to train a model that is 4% better because people are still coming to your application and having a good product experience, right?
5:03 John Coogan? Yes.
5:03 Jordi Hays? So historically, one of the critiques to Anthropic's business was that they have to just be on this constant, constant fly, you know, sort of hamster wheel of training the best model because they have an API, the majority of their business is this API business.
5:18 John Coogan? They're not an aggregator yet.
5:19 Jordi Hays? Swap it out for a smarter model.
5:21 John Coogan? Yes.
5:21 Jordi Hays? That said, they have Claude Code now, which gives them some more leverage over the market.
5:26 John Coogan? And the really interesting thing is that Dario is now talking about being near the end of the exponential or maybe producing like the final models because we, we've talked to a few people about this, but it's very unclear if, if it's possible to create like a super intelligence of like 5,000 IQ. It might just be they get good at all knowledge work and they can answer all tasks, but it's like the digital guy. At that point, it does commoditize and you drop out of Korno equilibrium and you become more, customers are more aggressive about switching to cheaper models to cut costs because the frontier is now commoditized in the entire backlog. Everyone is at the frontier, basically. And so in that scenario, you switch over to Bertrand competition,
6:11 John Coogan? which doesn't really mean that profits go to zero, but there is more competition. And it looks a lot more like the hyperscaler cloud market, which is, I think, what people have been sort of signaling towards. And also, it sort of explains why a lot of the VU C firms are getting in multiple companies because they don't think it's going to be winner-take-all anymore. They think it's going to be much more oligopolistic for the long term and there will be competition between the major three or four labs. And it will be much more about how can you marshal enough supply, create a huge barrier to entry. Like you and I could start a native US competitor tomorrow, but it's going to be extremely expensive to bring up. Data centers that just serve web apps everywhere, let alone AI stuff, right? Building all those data centers. You're thinking what I'm thinking? You're thinking, you're thinking AWS contender? People are saying, when does T P P have a product?
6:56 Jordi Hays? I was hanging with my buddy, my buddy Ben on Sunday. We both live in Malibu. He was thinking of just getting some chips and setting up Malibu inference.
7:05 John Coogan? There we go.
7:05 Jordi Hays? Just, just the name alone. Sounds like you could get at least, at least one.
7:11 John Coogan? Malibu inference. It's really funny.
7:14 Jordi Hays? Would, would it be a beautiful name for, for a new cloud?
7:17 John Coogan? Yeah. Let's play the clip of Dwar Keshe Patel and Dari Omadeh discussing the economics of AI labs.
7:25 Speaker 02 Like we have a, you know, let's just imagine we're, we're in like an economics textbook. We have a small number of firms. Each can invest a limited amount in, or like each can invest some fraction, fraction in R and D. They have some marginal cost to serve. The margins on that, the gross profit margins on that marginal cost are like very high because, because, because inference is efficient. There's some competition, but the models are also differentiated. There's some, there's some, um, you know, companies will compete to push their research budgets up. But like, because there's a small number of players, you know, we have the, what is it called? The Cornell equilibrium, I think is what the, what the small number of firm equilibrium is.
8:08 Speaker 02 The point is it doesn't equilibrate to perfect competition with, with, with, with, with, with zero margins. If there's like three firms, if there's three firms in the economy, all are kind of independently behaving, behaving rationally. It doesn't equilibrate to zero. Help me understand that because right now we do have three leading firms and they're not making profit. And so what, what?
8:31 John Coogan? That's a good question.
8:32 Speaker 02 Yeah. What, what is changing? Yeah. So the, the, again, the gross margins right now are very positive. What's happening, what, what's happening is a combination of two things. One is we're still in the exponential scale up phase of compute. Yeah. So what, basically what that means is we're training, like a model gets trained. Yeah. It costs, you know, let's say a model got trained that costs. A billion dollars last year. And then this year it produced four billion dollars of revenue and cost one billion dollars to to to inference from. So, you know, again, I'm using stylized number here, but you know, there'll be seventy five percent.
9:15 John Coogan? These aren't my numbers. I'm just picking random numbers.
9:16 Speaker 02 Gross gross margins and you know, this this twenty five percent tax. So that model as a whole makes two billion dollars. But at the same time, we're spending ten billion dollars to train the next model because there's an exponential scale up. And so the company loses money. Each model makes money, but the company loses money. The equilibrium I'm talking about is an equilibrium where we have the country of geniuses. We have the country of geniuses in a data center, but that that model training scale up has equilibrated more. Maybe maybe it's still it's still going up. We're still trying to predict the demand, but it's more it's more leveled out.
9:55 John Coogan? There is another fun clip that we should watch from A Beautiful Mind. Jordy, have you seen A Beautiful Mind?
10:01 Jordi Hays? No.
10:01 John Coogan? It won the Oscar for Best Picture, I believe. It's about the mathematician John Nash. Have you seen A Beautiful Mind?
10:08 Jordi Hays? I've not.
10:08 John Coogan? Wow. Unc. Status over there.
10:11 Jordi Hays? You would have you would have. I was I was walking on the beach with Senra.
10:16 John Coogan? Yeah.
10:16 Jordi Hays? And we walked by an incredibly famous, one of the top movie directors of the last probably ten years.
10:24 John Coogan? Wait, really?
10:24 Jordi Hays? And Senra was like, do you see that? And I was like, see what? It's a guy with a dog.
10:28 John Coogan? That's hilarious. I feel like that your beach tours have been really star studded lately. This is different from the previous one you mentioned, correct?
10:38 Jordi Hays? Yes.
10:38 John Coogan? Wow.
10:39 Jordi Hays? Yes.
10:39 John Coogan? That's remarkable. Well, let's pull up the clip.
10:46 John Coogan? It's from A Beautiful Mind.
10:49 Speaker 03 Nash, you might want to stop shuffling your papers for five seconds.
10:52 Jordi Hays? Is that Eric Climon?
10:56 John Coogan? Yes, it's Eric Glennon. In the, in the ramp biopic, we got, we got, we got our cast right here.
11:04 John Coogan? This is the original, like, looks maxi movie.
11:09 Speaker 04 Will she want a large wedding, you think?
11:11 Speaker 03 Should we say swords, gentlemen? Pistols at dawn.
11:13 Speaker 05 Have you remembered nothing? Recall the lessons of Adam Smith, the father of modern economics.
11:20 Speaker 03 In, uh, in competition, individual ambition serves the common good. Exactly. It remained for himself, gentlemen. And then those who strike out are stuck with their friends.
11:29 Speaker 05 I'm not gonna strike out.
11:31 Speaker 03 You can lead a blonde to water, but you can't make her drink.
11:33 Speaker 05 I don't think you said that.
11:34 Speaker 03 Alright, nobody move. She's looking over at him.
11:36 Speaker 04 Right, she's looking at Nash.
11:38 Speaker 05 Oh god. Alright, he may have the upper hand now, but wait until he opens his mouth.
11:44 Speaker 04 I guess that was in the history books.
11:52 John Coogan? I think this, this is very, very stylized and completely apocryphal. Like, he definitely thought of this theory, but, uh, not at a bar.
12:04 Speaker 05 We block each other. Not a single one of us is gonna get her. So then we go for her friends.
12:13 Speaker 05 But they will all give us the cold shoulder because nobody likes to be second choice. What if no one goes for the blonde?
12:22 Speaker 05 We don't get in each other's way, and we don't insult the other girls.
12:27 Speaker 05 That's the only way we win.
12:31 Speaker 05 That's the only way we all get laid.
12:36 John Coogan? So he's describing the prisoner's dilemma.
12:39 Speaker 05 Adam Smith said.
12:40 John Coogan? Where everyone must work together.
12:41 Speaker 05 Best result comes from everyone in the group doing what's best for himself, right? That's what he said, right? Incomplete, incomplete.
12:48 John Coogan? Incomplete, incomplete.
12:50 Speaker 05 Because the best result would come from everyone in the group doing what's best for himself. And the group.
12:59 Speaker 04 Nash, this is some way for you to get the blonde on your own. You can go to hell.
13:02 Speaker 03 Governing dynamics, gentlemen. Governing dynamics. Adam Smith.
13:07 Speaker 03 He's wrong.
13:14 Jordi Hays? Thank you.
13:16 John Coogan? Anyway, very fun.
13:17 Jordi Hays? Dave says, "Just joined the stream. We watching a movie."
13:20 John Coogan? Yeah, lots of game theory going on in the AI wars right now. Everyone's trying to figure out how far to push it. There's a fair amount of risk. There's still the Korno game of chicken around who will invest the most in advancing the frontier. But the end state looks a lot more durable than pure model commoditization and the perfectly competitive situation that many were predicting a few years ago.
13:42 Jordi Hays? Puko Capital says, "I thought Dorkesh had a good point that software engineering is the only job where the full context needed to do the job is available to an AI agent via the codebase. And I didn't think Dari had a good answer for why automating other jobs will be as easy." This got a bunch of, a lot of people kind of reacting, kind of disagreeing generally that all of the full context needed to do the job is available. But I do think something we need to figure out.
14:07 John Coogan? Yeah, we were debating this because there was a post that was just sort of like a Wojak reaction that was just making fun of this. And it wasn't clear if they were saying that, like, that they were agreeing or disagreeing. But basically, my take was, well, it's possible that a lot of the, you know, the full context needed to do the job of a lot of different white collar jobs is in fact logged. It's just logged in the final product, which is like a deck or spreadsheet or a decision, and then a whole bunch of emails, a whole bunch of slacks, and then a whole bunch of Zoom calls that's recorded. And so, yes, if you're running a business where a lot of work gets done in smoky bars
14:49 John Coogan? late at night and, you know, back alley deal making, sure, that's going to be harder to automate. But in the world where it's someone sitting in front of a computer and there's a screen recorder running, like, you should be able to pull up most of the context. At the same time, you can't just snap your fingers and go back and get every decision that was made in the 80s that allowed Coca-Cola to become a dominant soda maker. But you can with Linux. You literally can with Linux.
15:16 Jordi Hays? If you get people on calls just being like, knowing the call's being recorded and used to train something to replace them, they're just like, "I'll tell you offline."
15:24 Jordi Hays? I'm not speaking this secret.
15:27 John Coogan? Yeah, golf this weekend?
15:28 Jordi Hays? Debate around the posture.
15:31 John Coogan? Yes.
15:32 Jordi Hays? Drakesh, his posture was absolutely excellent.
15:35 John Coogan? He looks fantastic. And I love this sweater. The crew deck works really well. The pushed up sleeves is a particular choice. Didn't translate into that Chad Wojcicki, but he looks fantastic here. Lot of fun on the timeline, looking at the looks mogging or whatever, the looks maxing. I don't even know. I can't frame mogging.
15:59 Jordi Hays? Yeah. He kept bringing up the example of a video editor.
16:04 John Coogan? Yeah.
16:05 Jordi Hays? Saying, yeah, but when will the models be good enough to edit videos well?
16:09 John Coogan? Yes.
16:10 Jordi Hays? Pick out moments?
16:10 John Coogan? Yes.
16:11 Jordi Hays? And give me two years and another 500 billion.
16:15 Jordi Hays? We've tried every tool there is. They can't do it yet.
16:18 John Coogan? Crikey, I don't know. I don't know what's.
16:21 Jordi Hays? And it's not even that we're not trying the tools to replace the people on our team. We're trying to make them have higher output.
16:30 John Coogan? One interesting thing is that the, there isn't, there aren't a lot of open source, like premiere profiles. Like I've edited a ton of videos for YouTube. There's a whole bunch of cuts in there. What I cut out, what I didn't, you could have that record, but it's not stored in GitHub. Like it's just, you can't necessarily train on it. You can train on the final product and understand, but you don't understand what actually got left on the cutting room floor. There's this whole concept of like, kill your darlings. Like when you're in the edit, like you need to be cutting more. You're like, I like that shot. So cinematic, so cool, but does it actually advance the story? No, so you cut it down. I was watching The Matrix this weekend and there's this amazing shot of when Neo and Morpheus are going to visit the Oracle.
17:13 John Coogan? And they reach for the doorknob and the doorknob has this perfect reflection. And the reflection shows Neo and Morpheus. And they had to do this crazy VFX shot to hide the camera in what looks like Morpheus's coat. Because if you point a camera at a mirror, you see the camera. And you don't want to see the cameraman there. That ruins the shot. And so they did all this crazy stuff to like, to like, you know, cover up the camera. And I'd seen the behind the scenes and been like, wow, that's really impressive. And in my memory, I thought it was like, oh, it's such an important shot. They probably lingered on that for like, five seconds to really let it sink in. Like, they're pulling a trick on the audience. It's beautiful. It's like half a second. And they did all this work. And then they knew that like, from a storytelling perspective, you don't want to hang out and watch a picture of a doorknob for five seconds.
17:57 John Coogan? And so, all these decisions, like, they sort of get chronicled, but they don't get neatly organized in the way that a GitHub log does with pull request discussions and what happens. So, it'll be, it'll be difficult. So maybe two years and another five billion dollars does it. But it's coming, so we'll, we'll keep monitoring it.
18:14 Jordi Hays? Andrew Reid says, "Horses don't stop, they keep going."
18:18 John Coogan? Wait, did he actually say that?
18:19 Jordi Hays? Yes.
18:19 John Coogan? No way.
18:20 Jordi Hays? Yes, in response to 2026 being the year of the horse.
18:24 John Coogan? I love it.
18:25 Jordi Hays? One of the greatest lyrics of all time.
18:27 John Coogan? Originally, to explain the joke, it's a Young Thug song. And the actual lyric is, "Hustlers don't stop, they keep going." But it sounds like horses. And so people put, "Horses don't stop, they keep going." And they show the AI-generated image of the horse bench pressing. And it's incredibly inspiring.
18:45 Jordi Hays? There's a lot of Young Thug songs that are hard to decipher.
18:50 John Coogan? 100%.
18:51 Jordi Hays? Let's hit the size gong for this Pennsylvania Girl Scout. Six years old, breaks record selling 87,000 boxes of cookies. She's unstoppable.
19:03 John Coogan? Unstoppable. Wait, how much is that? What's the ARR?
19:06 Jordi Hays? Estimating that it's somewhere around $600,000 of sales.
19:11 John Coogan? It's amazing.
19:11 Jordi Hays? At only six years old. Really incredible stuff. Heartwarming.
19:14 John Coogan? That's awesome.
19:15 Jordi Hays? India's Adani Group to invest $100 billion in AI infrastructure.
19:19 John Coogan? We gotta hit the gong again.
19:20 Jordi Hays? Hit it again. The Indian conglomerate's investment may boost the country's ambitions to become an AI power. India's Andoni Group, an energy and logistics giant, said it would invest $100 billion to develop large-scale data centers by 2035, the largest such commitment in India so far. Tyler, what do you think about the timing here? Is this gonna be too late? Are the clankers gonna, like, is 2035? How are we looking there? Is that post-singularity? Yeah, I'm very bullish on the clankers coming pretty early, so, you know, time will tell, I guess. I'll see. I cannot wait to pull up this clip.
19:54 John Coogan? It is, it is a big number that I feel like a lot of countries have been teasing big numbers, but this is like-
20:02 Jordi Hays? Yeah, they're kind of mugging Micron.
20:04 John Coogan? Yeah, this is like a really big number. You see a bunch of like multi-billion dollar deals, multi-billion dollar releases, but this is like a serious, serious, uh, serious investment. So, you know, good, good news.
20:17 Jordi Hays? Micron is spending 200 billion. So congratulations for saying the biggest number, Micron. Micron is spending 200 billion to break the AI memory bottleneck. For decades, memory chips were low-margin commodity products. Now the industry can't make enough to satisfy data centers' hunger.
20:34 John Coogan? Just like, this one company is like, yeah, we're gonna spend twice as much as India.
20:40 Jordi Hays? Micron Technology is the largest American maker of memory chips, the tiny slices of silicon that store and transfer data and help power everything from smartphones and car computers to laptops and data centers. Micron is rushing to add manufacturing capacity to avert the biggest supply crunch the memory industry has seen in more than 40 years.
20:56 John Coogan? Did you hear that the PS6, the PlayStation 6, is now delayed because of memory shortages? 2029, pretty, pretty big delay to 2029. They really don't refresh-
21:09 Jordi Hays? You just created a trillion gamer. No, seriously, I think adding insult to injury-
21:16 John Coogan? Yeah.
21:17 Jordi Hays? To-
21:18 John Coogan? The gamers might actually be-
21:19 Jordi Hays? Rise up.
21:20 John Coogan? Gamers might rise up. They might be an important voting bloc. A lot of them are- A lot of them are of age to vote and a lot of them would rather have new gaming hardware than, you know, necessarily AI slop in the feed. They're like, yeah, I can't afford the new PC that I wanted. What do you think?
21:37 Speaker 06 I don't know. I mean, I feel like this says a lot about how good the PS5 is, right? Because they can like afford to just like postpone the PSX. Like what games?
21:45 Jordi Hays? Oh, now you don't want technological progress?
21:47 John Coogan? Wow.
21:48 Speaker 06 I want it to go to the data centers. I don't care about like the next game graphics have like, have they gotten that much better in the past like five years? Like, yeah, maybe, but it's like, for the actual gameplay, is it that important if like the actual pixels are?
21:59 John Coogan? Realistically, a lot of this stuff should be moving to the cloud soon if it's not already. And then if you're running in the cloud, you can upgrade the hardware. And in theory, you should be able to run like a gen AI up ressing pass to make it more photoreal. And I feel like that's going to be where more of the juice is squeezed out of the graphics than just continuing on the traditional path of like more pixels, more ray tracing. It'll be make a really beautifully, you know, designed video game that works really well, really tight deterministic interactions. So it's satisfying and then give it a layer.
22:36 Jordi Hays? We gotta have like a ram trader on the show, like really somebody that's in the thick of, of deal making in this space. Moving on, Lucas Shaw was on a tear over the weekend reporting on the Warner Brothers Paramount conversations. He says this morning Warner Brothers is going to resume talks with Paramount after two months of rejecting them playing mind games. The company still says it's committed to Netflix, but needs to find out just how much the Ellison's will offer. He originally reported on this Sunday, but it's being confirmed today. Again, we kind of knew this was going to happen if the Ellison's had been saying, we're making it, we're giving you a big number, but it's not our biggest number. It's not our best and final.
23:22 Jordi Hays? So no surprise here.
23:23 John Coogan? Let's flip over to Claude Bot. Kent Dodd says, "Name's the thing Claude Bot." Claude asks for a rename, renames to OpenAI, buys it. Legendary, legendary couple of weeks. No confirmation on buying. It's an open source project. They're keeping it open source. There's a whole bunch of different.
23:42 Jordi Hays? Yeah, Dave, Dave Moran, I remember reading, is gonna step in to, I believe, run the foundation that will, that will kind of steward the open source project. And then Peter's obviously joining OpenAI. "I'll take this day off to figure out this whole OpenClaw thing every entrepreneur on President's Day weekend." We've talked about this on the show before. Long weekends are really good for AI progress and AI diffusion.
24:11 John Coogan? Petition for three day weekends to speed up AGI timelines. Probably would work, for sure. Fumblegate, fumblegate. Did Anthropic fumble OpenClaw?
24:21 Jordi Hays? Will Brown says, "Honestly crazy that OpenClaw sold for 1 billion." Like, he's really the first solo $5 billion founder. "Time will tell if it's worth 15 billion that OpenAI spent on the acquisition, but it's pretty wild that you can just vibe code an open source project and make 40 billion in a couple of months now."
24:39 John Coogan? It really, really nails it, because everyone jumped immediately to a billion, immediately.
24:44 Jordi Hays? Off of nothing.
24:45 John Coogan? Off of nothing, off of like, one rumor. It's very, very funny. Who knows? Alex Cohen breaks it down for Gen Z, if you're wondering what happened today. Claude was mugging OpenAI for weeks, then this gym cell dev ships Claude Bot, which was the fastest growing open source thing ever. Absolute looks max for the whole ecosystem. Anthropic tries to dairigoon him with legal. Dev renames to OpenClaw. OpenAI slides in like a void pulling Chad with acquisition interest. OpenClaw gets acquired by OpenAI. Now Anthropic is getting jester gooned by the entire timeline and OpenAI is giga maxing off their fumble. Anthropic could have just let them cook him, cook. Instead, they went full Moid and got outframed by the jester maxers at OpenAI. The looks max lingo is really, it feels...
25:31 John Coogan? Like hilarious, I do wonder the half-life. I feel like it's
25:35 Jordi Hays? I think it's over.
25:35 John Coogan? It's gotta be, it's gotta be towards the end in this boom, but the rise of, of the, of the kick streamers is certainly the story of the year. Certainly the story of the year.
25:46 Jordi Hays? What did Claude do?
25:48 John Coogan? What did Claude do?
25:49 Jordi Hays? Pentagon has said that Anthropic will pay a price. There was reporting last week that Claude was leveraged in some way during the Maduro planning, the planning of the Maduro
26:01 John Coogan? Sure.
26:01 Jordi Hays? Raid. I was imagining in my head Dario as Walter White, you know, in the SUV, just being like
26:09 John Coogan? No.
26:10 Jordi Hays? Watching, watching the logs and seeing Pete Hegseth running a deep research report on Maduro.
26:15 John Coogan? Who is?
26:16 Jordi Hays? Who is Nicholas Maduro? He's just like, no!
26:20 John Coogan? No, don't do it.
26:23 Jordi Hays? Yeah, very, very unclear how, how it was used, but a lot of pushback. SAG-AFTRA
26:30 John Coogan? What happened?
26:31 Jordi Hays? Put out a statement on Seedance 2.0 and
26:36 John Coogan? It's not a comment, it's a statement.
26:37 Jordi Hays? The Chinese, yeah, no, the Chinese are, have been quivering in fear ever since
26:43 John Coogan? Oh no.
26:44 Jordi Hays? SAG came after them.
26:45 John Coogan? What'd they say?
26:45 Jordi Hays? SAG stands with the studios in condemning the blatant infringement enabled by ByteDance's new AI video model, Seedance 2.0. The infringement includes the unauthorized use of our members' voice and likenesses. This is unacceptable and undercuts the ability of human talent to earn a livelihood. It is kind of interesting that just in this statement, they're admitting to saying like, it's so good, you're gonna make it impossible for our members to earn a living. Which doesn't actually
27:11 John Coogan? It says undercuts.
27:13 Jordi Hays? Undercuts.
27:14 John Coogan? It didn't say eliminates.
27:15 Jordi Hays? Seedance 2.0 disregards law, ethics, industry standards, and basic principles of consent.
27:20 John Coogan? Hit that boom. AI development demands responsibility that is non-existent here. Completely correct. Some of the Seedance videos are insanely infringing. It's just like, wow, it's Larry David. Beginning of the end, so's growing, so's growing Daniel.
27:36 Jordi Hays? Disney, as expected, sent a cease and desist letter to ByteDance over Seedance 2.0. I wonder
27:44 John Coogan? It's crazy.
27:44 Jordi Hays? I wonder how ByteDance will actually react to this pushback. Obviously, they expected it.
27:48 John Coogan? Yeah.
27:49 Jordi Hays? They know that they're not abiding by a number of different US laws. Whether or not they care is another thing.
27:56 John Coogan? Yeah.
27:57 Jordi Hays? Like if you, if you make an AI version of Andrew Huberman and you get in a fresh ad account, you can probably start spending money before the Huberman Lab team finds out what you're doing.
28:08 John Coogan? I would disagree. I think Rob's on top of it. I think he's goaded. So, but anyone else, any other team would be cooked.
28:14 Jordi Hays? I don't know. I mean, he might respond faster than, than, than the others, but this is certainly happening. So this is interesting. If, if you're already like an A-list massive superstar, I think you see some stuff like this and you're actually like, great, I'm going to be able to shoot a movie in a week from LA. I'm not going to have to travel to these insane exotic locations and spend a week in the desert filming all these clips. So if you're like a Timothy Chalamet, this is maybe like, yes, you're worried for the overall industry, but at the same time, you're thinking, okay, my name and likeness is now infinitely scalable. I can still like restrict the supply to some degree, right? I'm not
28:56 Jordi Hays? going to tell any, any movie studio, hey, you can make a movie with me, whatever. You're still going to kind of restrict it. The question becomes new, new talent that's emerging, trying to build their brand. At what point do studios say, we're just going to make a character, we're going to make a new actor out of thin air, place him across different movies, build them up over time. You could imagine, I don't think a company like CAA would do this because all their talent would be like, what are you doing? Like you're, you're taking our job. But I could imagine a group trying to make like a little Michaela style actor that you build up over time.
29:32 John Coogan? Yep.
29:33 Jordi Hays? One thing that we'll find out is how much does the actual actor's real life matter in the context of their career? Like if Timothy Chalamet is dating Kylie Jenner, does that like increase his appeal on the big screen?
29:49 John Coogan? Yeah.
29:50 Jordi Hays? And I would say yes, probably, right? There's so much fixation on the lives of all this talent. I can't wait for tomorrow.
29:56 John Coogan? And two tomorrow at 11 AM sharp, Pacific.
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