OpenAI Sets Sights on $750B Valuation, Warner Brothers Questions Paramount’s Funding, The 2025 Model Wars In Review | Diet TBPN

Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in under 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after. Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. TBPN.com is made possible by: Ramp - https://ramp.com Figma - https://figma.com Vanta - https://vanta.com Linear - https://linear.app Eight Sleep - https://eightsleep.com/tbpn Wander - https://wander.com/tbpn Public - https://public.com AdQuick - https://adquick.com Bezel - https://getbezel.com Numeral - https://www.numeralhq.com Polymarket - https://polymarket.com Attio - https://attio.com/tbpn Fin - https://fin.ai/tbpn Graphite - https://graphite.dev Restream - https://restream.io Profound - https://tryprofound.com Julius AI - https://julius.ai turbopuffer - https://turbopuffer.com fal - https://fal.ai Privy - https://www.privy.io Cognition - https://cognition.ai Gemini - https://gemini.google.com Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01John Coogan?

  I saved this for the show. So this reaction, I haven't seen the video, but I've seen the metrics around the video. It's got 15,000 likes just on a quote tweet of it. I think it's gonna be very funny. This is OpenAI showing the public its financials once it goes public.

• 0:20John Coogan?

  Okay, looks pretty good. Getting a haircut. Looks good.

• 0:25John Coogan?

  Oh, no.

• 0:28John Coogan?

  You know, I've been watching these haircut videos and they're actually incredibly good content because

• 0:33Jordi Hays?

  Dude, this, that, that, this video going viral, this guy's gonna be full GigaChat mode within six months.

• 0:39John Coogan?

  I guarantee it.

• 0:40Jordi Hays?

  Guarantee it.

• 0:41John Coogan?

  Guarantee it.

• 0:41Jordi Hays?

  He knew what was gonna happen. He did it to inspire himself to, I guess, look.

• 0:46John Coogan?

  For sure. I looked at a, at a haircut video where, and it's incredibly sticky content because you're watching the guy describe what he wants and then at the very end, they show you a montage of the photos. And when it works out, obviously the joke there is that, you know, it's a downgrade. It does make me wonder, like, there are certain, like, can every different vertical, can every different type of content become, you know, high retention? Or are there some things that are just like more naturally like payoff based, right?

• 1:18Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. Scoop. OpenAI could soon be worth 750 billion in a financing round. They've had early talks. Let's give it up for early talks.

• 1:25John Coogan?

  We love early talks.

• 1:26Jordi Hays?

  We prefer advanced talks, but early talks, you gotta, you gotta start somewhere. About raising tens of billions of dollars or even 100 billion. Company was last valued at 500 billion a few months ago. Take Kim chimes in, says, "Public markets are crushing OpenAI exposed stocks, while private investors with visibility into OpenAI's metrics and internal numbers..."

• 1:48John Coogan?

  ...dot, dot, dot. Are piling in essentially is what he's saying there.

• 1:52Jordi Hays?

  Both can't be right.

• 1:53John Coogan?

  I trust Katie Roof reporting. So he's saying that it's bullish for OpenAI? That's his take from this?

• 2:01Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, maybe, maybe some of the, the publics have been oversold. That said, yeah, I'll, I'll be interested to see how this round comes together. Again, remember, it's, I think it's a good time to be fundraising if you need tens of billions of dollars. If this, if Warner Brothers ends up going. With Netflix, right? If you're raising tens of billions of dollars.

• 2:24John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:25Jordi Hays?

  And you're not doing it from strategics like the hyperscalers. It pretty much has to be sovereign wealth funds.

• 2:31John Coogan?

  If they pass on Warner Brothers, they have they have they have loose change in the couch cushions to to toss OpenAI's way.

• 2:38Jordi Hays?

  They can collect.

• 2:39John Coogan?

  To the tune of $10 billion checks, potentially. I mean, it does feel like OpenAI is at a bit of a I feels like the it feels like the vibes around OpenAI trough of disillusionment. Potentially going into plateau productivity. It it feels like they're turning it around. It feels like the new models and the products.

• 2:58Jordi Hays?

  I don't know. I haven't I haven't seen many people say, I love 5.2. But then again, out outside in the real world, clearly, you know, ask people what AI app they're using.

• 3:11John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:12Jordi Hays?

  That'll give you a lot of signal.

• 3:13John Coogan?

  It just feels it just feels like like, you know, OK, maybe maybe we're not in Baja Blast territory, but we know that every code read is followed by an equal.

• 3:22Jordi Hays?

  Adult mode.

• 3:23John Coogan?

  Adult mode.

• 3:24Jordi Hays?

  It's coming in January.

• 3:26John Coogan?

  Yeah, maybe.

• 3:30John Coogan?

  But but it it it does. It does seem like a lot of the a lot of the a lot of the negativity has kind of worked its way through. The market's traded down. There's maybe not another like it's like it feels like we're finding a bottom. If we're like we're finding like the the footing of like, OK, reset the narratives, rebuild back up. Like, can they catch up in this? Can they catch up in that? If you see a couple of good charts, a couple of growth charts, then you're sort of back in business because.

• 3:58Jordi Hays?

  And again, I still think I still think the Disney deal.

• 4:01John Coogan?

  Negative as like the the point that I'm making is like is like a couple of months ago. It was like it's Enron, it's going to blow up, it's zero, it's not going to work at all. And it does feel like we're turning the corner on that.

• 4:13Jordi Hays?

  Maybe muted the people that that are still saying that because they're still saying it.

• 4:17John Coogan?

  They're still saying it. Well, it just got old.

• 4:20Jordi Hays?

  Funny post, they say Sam says, sell me this pen. Jensen says, I'll lend you the money to buy it.

• 4:28John Coogan?

  Warner CEO David Zaslove and Netflix co-CEOs Greg Peters and Ted Sarandos on the Warner Brothers lot, they took game day photo. They went out deliberately to just strut and just flex and they clearly knew what they were doing. Hey.

• 4:43Jordi Hays?

  Well, this is their new lot.

• 4:45John Coogan?

  You point, you look over here, guys, can we look over this direction? Okay, yeah, that's perfect. Snap, snap, snap. They know what they're doing. No hostile offer can get between us. We're bros. We're hanging out. This is a sign of strength.

• 4:56Jordi Hays?

  Sun's out, there's palm trees.

• 4:59John Coogan?

  Yeah, this is, this is them sending the signal, sending, sending a signal, hey, we're excited to work together. We're excited to be in partnership, collaborating. There was one person who quoted this and was unhappy about it. Where is?

• 5:13Jordi Hays?

  They were saying that they weren't well dressed.

• 5:15John Coogan?

  Yeah, they were saying that they weren't well dressed and, and he was like, I'm, I'm kind of in that boat. It's not, it's not that.

• 5:20Jordi Hays?

  They threw on a blazer, they threw on their, their rocking blazers. Give them a break.

• 5:24John Coogan?

  It's definitely like a Hollywood executive style that's sort of like become the norm.

• 5:28Jordi Hays?

  But this is also a good way for, for people that are maybe more on the tech side to start dressing up. You don't have to go from jeans straight into a suit. You can throw on a blazer, right? Something to consider. Matt Levine is back. He says, I've missed Christmas Eve and New York, New Years and the Fourth of July holidays for newsletters a lot smaller than this. This is as good as it gets for newsletter writers. He says Warner doesn't trust Paramount, revocable trusts, ESG side letters, IPO lockups, destiny and doing deals over the holidays. Trust. If you're a normal person, most of your wealth is probably in your own name, but if you're one of the richest people in the world, you probably have a lot more complicated estate and tax planning, which probably means that a lot of your wealth is in trusts, legal arrangements that your lawyer set up to hold assets for you. Most

• 6:10Jordi Hays?

  simply, you might have a revocable trust where your assets technically belong to the trust, but you have control over the trust assets, investment decisions, beneficiaries, et cetera. This can be useful for estate planning, but for most purposes, owning assets in a revocable trust is pretty much like owning them yourself. I regularly say that Mark Zuck, Mark Zuckerberg, Mark Zuck. Owns a lot of shares of Meta, or that Elon owns a lot of shares of Tesla, even though neither statement is exactly true. Their trust owns the shares, but for most practical purposes you can think of, they own them. This creates, I suppose, a small dumb problem. Let's say you build big yachts, and Mark Zuckerberg comes to you and asks to buy a billion dollar yacht. Naturally, he will pay you the billion dollars on completion of the yacht. You might ask him, "Well, do you have a billion dollars?" And he might say,

• 6:55Jordi Hays?

  "No, actually, I don't, but the Mark Zuckerberg trust owns like a bajillion dollars worth of Meta stock, and I control that, so I'm good." You find that persuasive, so you pull up the yacht sale contract. Who do you put in as the buyer? If you put Mark Zuckerberg, he has no money. If you put the Mark Zuckerberg trust, it has plenty of money now. But if it is a revocable trust, he can just take all the money shares out whenever he wants. It's revocable. If he changes his mind about the yacht, he can clean out the trust. You'll send the bill to the trust, but the trust will have no money, and you'll be stuck with the yacht. Not that bad of a situation to be stuck with a billion dollar yacht.

• 7:30John Coogan?

  But if you're in the business of selling them, you certainly want to be able to complete the transaction.

• 7:35Jordi Hays?

  I get the, I get the point.

• 7:36John Coogan?

  This is very interesting.

• 7:36Jordi Hays?

  Honestly, this is a pretty easy problem to solve. You put Mark Zuckerberg in the contract. He doesn't own the assets directly, but he controls the trust. So if he owes you a billion dollars, you can make him take it out of the trust. But maybe you'll get confused, or he'll get confused, and you'll end up signing a contract with the trust. Then if he changes his mind, he can zero out the trust and stiff you. I cannot imagine that this comes up a lot with yacht builders or anyone else. Elon Musk once did sign a contract to buy Twitter for 44 billion, then changed his mind and tried to get out of it. The fact that his wealth is mostly in a trust did not, at any stage of the proceedings, trouble anyone. He had signed his equity commitment in his own name, and everyone understood that if he was sued and lost, he'd have to pay with his trust money if necessary. And Twitter did sue him, and he did pay. Fine, fine, fine.

• 8:21Jordi Hays?

  On the other hand, Paramount is trying to buy Warner Brothers Discovery, breaking up Warner's deal to sell itself to Netflix, Inc. And Paramount does not have nearly enough money to pay for Warner. Instead, much of the money behind the bid comes from Paramount chief executive officer's dad, Larry Ellison. As of this, writing the fifth richest person in the world. Or, rather, it comes from his trust. And this would be one of the greatest tricks in the history of mergers and acquisitions. One major sticking point is Warner Brothers' concern about the financing proposed by Paramount, which is led by David Ellison. A big part of the equity is backstopped by a trust that manages the wealth of his father. Larry Ellison, because it's a revocable trust, assets can be taken out of it at any time, and Warner Brothers may have no recourse if that happens, the people said.

• 9:06Jordi Hays?

  Matt says, "Ah, ha, ha, ha, sure." The risk here is Warner throws over Netflix, pays it a $2.8 billion breakup fee, and signs a deal to sell itself to Paramount for something like $100 and $8.4 billion in cash. For some reason, changing market conditions, regulatory difficulties, and a change of heart by the Ellison's or a change of heart by their co-investors, the Ellison's decide they don't want to close the deal. Quietly, in the comfort of his own home, without saying anything to Warner, Larry Ellison takes all of his stock out of the trust, leaving it empty. "Yoink," he whispers to himself. "Oops, never mind," Paramount tells Warner. Warner sues Paramount for specific performance, seeking to make it pay $108.4 billion and close the deal. "LOL, we don't have that kind of money," says Paramount,

• 9:50Jordi Hays?

  which has a market capitalization of about $15 billion and about $3 billion of cash. "When we signed the deal, you knew that the money was coming from the Ellison Trust." So Warner sues the Ellison Trust for specific performance, seeking to make it pay $108 billion and close the deal. "LOL, we don't have that kind of money," says the Ellison Trust. "We did, sure, but the trust got revoked." "Yoink," adds Larry Ellison more loudly this time. So Warner sues Larry Ellison for the money. He says, "Who, me?" Says Larry Ellison. "You have no deal with me. I didn't even know what you're talking about. This is not my problem. This does not strike me as especially likely, and it would obviously be bad for Paramount and the Ellison's, but I suppose it is possible, and it would be a pretty fun trick." Today Warner officially rejected Paramount's bid, advising shareholders not to sell their shares

• 10:35Jordi Hays?

  in Paramount's tender offer. Paramount's own tender offer says that the Ellison Equity Commitment and Guarantee will be from the Lawrence Ellison Revocable Trust, not from Larry Ellison himself. The offer points out that the trust is rich. The Ellison Trust has financial resources well in excess of what would be required to meet its financial obligations under the Equity Commitment Letter, including many other assets and financial resources available to it. Record and beneficial ownership of approximately $1.16 billion.

• 11:03Jordi Hays?

  Shares of Oracle stock with a market value of approximately 252 billion as of the date of this offer to purchase, but as the name says, it's revocable. This seems extremely fixable. Have Larry Ellison sign the commitments personally?

• 11:16John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 11:17Jordi Hays?

  William Kohan reports that the whole situation is trains passing in the night and, quote, "The Ellison's believe they can still be sued for specific performance to fund the deal." He quotes a person familiar with their thinking, saying that "there is no financing condition in the deal." And Paramount and the Ellison's/Redbird, along with our lenders, are legally obligated to close regardless of future financial or business performance at Paramount. That is not an impossible thought to convey in merger papers, and yet so far, they apparently haven't.

• 11:47John Coogan?

  The real trick is, obviously, create a revocable trust and name it the irrevocable trust. Can you just do that?

• 11:55Speaker 02

  One simple trick.

• 11:56John Coogan?

  One simple trick.

• 11:57Jordi Hays?

  Eben A. lawyers hate this one simple trick.

• 12:01Speaker 02

  I am wondering, like, if this is very common.

• 12:04John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 12:05Speaker 02

  I mean, Matt Levine talks about this, but like, why did Elon not do this during the Twitter buyout?

• 12:08John Coogan?

  That is a good question.

• 12:09Speaker 02

  Because it says Elon did sign the contract in his name.

• 12:12John Coogan?

  In his own name.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  Which he could have just done to the trust, and then he could have backed out when he wanted to.

• 12:16John Coogan?

  Well, I mean, one thing is like, it feels like Elon, like, just rips checks and was very much just like, "Yeah, I'm good for it, I'm going for it. I don't want to play this game at all, like, because I'm all in. You have the full faith and credit of the Bank of Elon Musk, essentially." We talked about with, like, that when you make an offer for a big company, there's like the expected value of the close, and saying, "Hey, we have this backstop," is something that increases the probability that you close, that the financing condition is met. But then saying, "Okay, we're doing it in a trust or a revocable trust," takes that down a little bit. But again, there's a world where all of the different capital providers lined up.

• 12:59John Coogan?

  And you're not even talking about trust revocable or irrevocable because you never get there because all the different funds are jumping. I want to get in. I have to get my stake. I want 10% of this. Here's 10 billion. I'm ready to go. You don't even care about the backstop, or you don't care about the trust because everyone's lining up. The only reason that maybe they're in this scenario is because it feels like Warner Brothers did actually sort of kick the tires on the Paramount deal and get to the end state of evaluating it and saying, oh, well, like, we've heard, you know, you mentioned Jared Kushner's in, like, is affinity partners really in? And when they push them, affinity partners, it seems like they might be out. I don't know. I don't know exactly what happened.

• 13:43John Coogan?

  But there's a variety of stakeholders that came in. And the level of, it's not just that they were thumbs up, thumbs down. There were some that were, that people said that they were thumbs up, they wound up being thumbs down. Some of them were, you know, here and they wound up being there, you know, little bit edgy, depending on a lot of different folks where it's like, you know, it's like putting together any other financing round. Like, ideally, every investor that goes into a seed stage company or a series A company is like, yes, I'm good regardless of who else is in the round. Every once in a while, you get VCs who say, yeah, I'll sign a term sheet, but term sheets are non-binding and we'll see how the round pencils out. I'll sit on this signature. I'm not going to sign this. I'm not going to wire.

• 14:24Jordi Hays?

  Or they would give a verbal, and thinking that Sequoia is going to come in, Sequoia doesn't, and then they're like, oh.

• 14:32John Coogan?

  Or vice versa. They give the verbal, they sit on it, they're not wiring, they're maybe leaning back, and then Sequoia comes in, or founder, founder, and Dreeson or someone comes in, and then they're like, wait, wait, wait, you said that I could get 2% of this company for 100K. Like, give me my terms. And you're like, you didn't sign that doc, you were very much leaning out. I've been in that situation. Wall Street gets early taste of hot year expected for IPOs. Shares of a company called Medline began trading in the biggest new stock listing since 2021. Wall Street is getting a glimpse of what could be the biggest year ever for IPOs in the US. After four years of choppiness, the market.

• 15:13John Coogan?

  You didn't even let me get to the number. The medical supply company raised $6.3 billion in its stock offering. The stock closed at $41 a share. Massive offering. It's the biggest IPO since Rivian, actually, in 2021. "We're the largest company no one's ever heard of," said the chief executive, Jim Boyle. So the offering could help set the stage for some of the most highly anticipated IPOs, with rocket maker SpaceX, AI company Anthropic, and mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac among the companies looking at listings in 2026. OpenAI also rumored. There's a couple of other companies that might go out.

• 15:55Jordi Hays?

  There's a bunch of tech darlings that are, look kind of like infants in comparison to s- to

• 16:01John Coogan?

  But still might be

• 16:02Jordi Hays?

  But still could be

• 16:03John Coogan?

  Level of maturity to go out.

• 16:05Jordi Hays?

  Very notable.

• 16:05John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 16:06Jordi Hays?

  Companies that are basically at Figma scale.

• 16:08John Coogan?

  Sure, yeah, yeah, or even beyond. For a long time, you know, if you're a $10 billion company in the tens of billions, the decacorns, any decacorn should be comfortable going out, potentially, as long as they're not in some crazy R and D cycle and they actually have the core finances humming at this point. Bankers say their teams have been busy in recent weeks pitching companies to be lead advisor on their IPOs, marking a pickup in activity. Many startups had a shoot-going public in recent years. "I'm not sure that's entirely true anymore," said Magdalena Henrich, head of U.S. Technology Equity Capital Markets at Bank of America. In our newsletter today, we did a little review of the model wars. What a year.

• 16:52John Coogan?

  Just in terms of model releases, August 7th, OpenAI releases GPT-5. September 29th, Anthropic releases Claude Sonnet 4.5. Then, the day after, OpenAI releases Sora 2. The same day, Meta releases the Meta Ray-Bans displays. November 3rd, OpenAI and Amazon announce a partnership valued at $38 billion. November 12th, 5.1 drops from OpenAI.

• 17:19Jordi Hays?

  Yep.

• 17:20John Coogan?

  November 17th, XAI releases Grok 4.1. November 18th, Google releases Gemini 3. Massive response to that. It's crazy that that was just one month ago.

• 17:32John Coogan?

  November 20th, Nano Banana Pro comes out. Then November 24th, Anthropic releases Claude Opus 4.5. We talked to Shulto about that. And then December 1st, DeepSeek releases DeepSeek version 3.2. And of course, before the end of the year, OpenAI had to fire back with GPT-5.2 on December 11. And then December 17th, Google releases Gemini's Reflash.

• 17:54Speaker 02

  Also today, I think OpenAI released 5.2 Codex. So like the, you know, coding model. I think there's this whole narrative where like, oh, AI is stagnating.

• 18:03John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:03Speaker 02

  Where it's like, bro, look at the benchmarks. Like, it's like, it's on the trend.

• 18:07John Coogan?

  Look at the benchmarks, they're saturating. There was a moment where just multiplying two really, really big numbers together in, you know, on a computer, like, you needed more memory to do like, you know, a thousand digits times a thousand digits. We need to get you a massive winter coat to get through this AI winter. Because the AI winter is happening, dude. I'm telling you.

• 18:29Speaker 02

  There's no AI winter.

• 18:30John Coogan?

  There is, there is, there's an, I mean, it's the age of research, okay? The age of research is the age of winter.

• 18:35Jordi Hays?

  It's like June next year, it's hot in the Ultra Dome. Tyler, just keep the coat on, buddy. You can't take it off till it's over.

• 18:42John Coogan?

  Till it's over. The progress is...

• 18:44Speaker 02

  Like, people want AI to stagnate so bad. People, so many people want that.

• 18:48John Coogan?

  They do.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  And it's not happening, bro. It's like, the models are getting better.

• 18:52John Coogan?

  Everyone without bags is saying it's stagnating.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  Well, no, because all those people are like, oh, like I missed Nvidia or whatever.

• 19:00John Coogan?

  Oh, you think, you think Carpathia's like, I missed Nvidia, so I gotta go trash AI?

• 19:04Jordi Hays?

  Well, I think we can all agree, Tyler, that it's the age of research. But it's also the age of deals.

• 19:11John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 19:11Jordi Hays?

  We gotta talk about, we gotta talk about Trump media and technology. This morning, I woke up and, you know, a lot of people that, you know, do like mental health podcasts, they say, look at your phone within five seconds.

• 19:26John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 19:26Jordi Hays?

  Opening your eyes.

• 19:27John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 19:27Jordi Hays?

  Just immediately, you know, connect with the internet and just sort of start, uh, kind of marinating in all the notifications that you maybe got over the last eight hours. So that's what I did this morning. I, I opened my eyes, I immediately grabbed my phone. I see this push notification, I think it was from Bloomberg, that Truth Social parents to merge with nuclear fusion firm in a $6 billion deal. And I thought I was dreaming still because it just seemed insane. Trump's been so active this year on the on the deal making side. Who would have thought he had another multi billion dollar deal to do this year? So of course, Trump Media and Technology Group, the social media and crypto company,

• 20:10Jordi Hays?

  part owned by President Trump, said it would develop a utility scale fusion power plant. President Trump's social media company, which recently expanded into streaming and cryptocurrency, is now entering its fourth act. Fusion Power, a promising but still unproven source of alternative energy. DJT and Tay Technologies said Thursday they had agreed to an all stock merger that the company's valued at more than 6 billion. The deal would be a metamorphosis for Trump Media, the money losing parent company of True Social, a social media platform that has struggled to gain market share beyond serving as the main online megaphone for President Trump. Mr. Trump is the company's largest shareholder with a large stake worth more than 1 billion that is held in a trust, where trust, trust maxing, of course, managed by Don Jr., who is a Trump Media board member.

• 20:53Jordi Hays?

  The company, based in Sarasota, Florida, has only a few dozen full time employees and has recorded tens of millions of losses in recent years. The merger with Tay would create one of the first publicly traded nuclear fusion companies, according to the release.

• 21:08John Coogan?

  You know, people are going to talk trash about this, like, oh, what is a, what is a social network doing, building energy assets? But you look at what Amazon's doing, building massive data centers where for AWS, Amazon owns Twitch, that's a social network. What else does Amazon own? Well, they own some diesel generators for backup power at the data centers. Fusion, theoretically cleaner. Who would have thought that out of Silicon Valley tech people, they would be using diesel while the big guy is is using clean energy to power his social network?

• 21:43Jordi Hays?

  Fascinating, fascinating stuff. True Social is also getting into the prediction market game.

• 21:49John Coogan?

  No way.

• 21:49Jordi Hays?

  Launching a native prediction market feature in the app.

• 21:52John Coogan?

  It's crazy that they're not.

• 21:53Jordi Hays?

  I wonder if it'll be like predict, trade on what, trade on the content of Trump's next post. I am interested to see how the, you know, future presidents approach business, right? Who is the guy with the peanut farm?

• 22:07John Coogan?

  Jimmy Carter.

• 22:08Jordi Hays?

  He got into a little hot water because of his peanut farm. I think he didn't fully divest.

• 22:12John Coogan?

  No, he did divest.

• 22:13Jordi Hays?

  But he still got in hot water?

• 22:14John Coogan?

  No, it was, it's just remarkable because the peanut farm was so small and so insignificant in the US economy and even in his personal balance sheet. But the, the fact that he was saying, "Look, I don't want any, any idea of impropriety, so I'm going to divest from a small peanut farm that I'm like associated with, so that no one can say that I'm in the pocket of big peanut, or I'm pro peanut, or little peanut." And so, the fact that, the fact that Jimmy Carter divested from the peanut farm, he was not, he was not, you know, in big oil or railroad baron or associated with banking.

• 22:56John Coogan?

  He had, he had very little conflict of interest, and he reduced it even further. That's always been a sign of like the, what, what great looks like.

• 23:03Jordi Hays?

  Trump has been in founder mode for a long time, getting all kinds of criticism about the business from people who aren't actually in the arena.

• 23:11John Coogan?

  We, I, it is, it is crazy, the degree to which he is a successful technology founder.

• 23:19Jordi Hays?

  People can take, have their issues with the, the president, but they cannot deny that, they cannot say with a straight face that he is not a technology.

• 23:27John Coogan?

  He's never founded a unicorn tech company.

• 23:29Jordi Hays?

  He's never taken a social media app public.

• 23:31John Coogan?

  You can't say that.

• 23:32Jordi Hays?

  You can't say that. He's never merged with a, a nuclear fusion, you know, company backed by Chevron and Google and Goldman Sachs.

• 23:39John Coogan?

  Almost one trillion dollars has been invested into AI so far, and that may just be the start. Look at this graph, or this, this is an interesting way to, to visualize the flow of money, because we see it as these like moments in time, a $10 billion deal here, a $100 billion deal, deal, deal there. This is showing the investment over time, and you can see, you know, Nvidia flowing to Amazon and all the different companies. Where's OpenAI? OpenAI is just flowing around. It's just a, just a cool little like, you know, data visualization. I, I thought this was, I thought this was fun to look at. Can't wait for this AI bubble to pop, so we can all go back to normal, just like how the internet completely disappeared after the dot com bubble popped. It's another bullish take for AI. It's not going anywhere.

• 24:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a great take.

• 24:25John Coogan?

  It is a great take. And 18,000 people agree it's a great take. I also think it's a great take. This doesn't seem so fast takeoff build, more internet build, which is slow takeoff. The internet has a slow takeoff. Everyone thought it was gonna be, the internet is the superhighway. It's gonna be, you know, a thousand X growth, Yahoo's gonna be worth a trillion dollars, like, you know? And then, you know, it kind of settled in, took a while for things to, to, to find use cases, find value. But eventually it did transform everything, but this time it's different.

• 24:56Speaker 02

  I mean, yeah, this time's different.

• 24:57John Coogan?

  Exactly.

• 24:57Speaker 02

  Right? Well, because this time we have the internet, so it's way faster to do distribution.

• 25:00John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 25:01Jordi Hays?

  I don't wanna, you weren't even alive, Eric Tyler. I don't even wanna, don't.

• 25:06John Coogan?

  I was racking servers in a data center while you were in the cradle.

• 25:12Jordi Hays?

  More importantly, this Chinese streamer cut the Apple Vision Pro's weight in half.

• 25:17John Coogan?

  Whoa, that's genius. I, this is, this is innovation. This is, this is crazy innovation. Wow.

• 25:26Jordi Hays?

  Imagine walking into an office and every person there is just locked in with a balloon.

• 25:30John Coogan?

  This is somehow more cyberpunk than just the default, put the big screen on your face. I like this.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  And, and people say the Chinese can only copy and they can't invent new stuff.

• 25:39John Coogan?

  That's not true.

• 25:40Jordi Hays?

  Not true. If you're a class clown coded, which I certainly am, imagine walking around the office and just with a little needle.

• 25:46John Coogan?

  No, no, no, no, no, no.

• 25:48Jordi Hays?

  It doesn't actually, it's not gonna hurt them. It's still strapped to their head.

• 25:51John Coogan?

  But you're popping their balloon, then they have to go get more helium and helium is a scarce resource.

• 25:55Jordi Hays?

  I want this guy to make a personal blimp. It's just like a harness you can put on with enough helium to just take you up.

• 26:02John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 26:03Jordi Hays?

  I think the Mythbusters did that. You just get a bunch of balloons, yeah.

• 26:06John Coogan?

  And, and it worked.

• 26:07Jordi Hays?

  Did they, doing that and then skydiving down would, would be, would be pretty cool. You should work on that over, over the, over the winter break.

• 26:16John Coogan?

  Oh, this is so, so funny. Big news. Alpha ton, a ton of alpha. We got a ton of alpha over here at Alpha Ton Capital. We're making a historic. Thirty million dollar strategic investment in Anduril Industries and they tag them. So we are investing in the future of defense tech and the convergence of decentralized AI with next gen national security. This is a strategic bet on the companies of the future. This unprecedented investment positions AlphaTun at the forefront of next generation defense technology infrastructure, marking a pivotal moment in the convergence of public markets and advanced national security capabilities. NASDAQ, A-Ton. And so they're trying to become an Anduril like hold co basically or

• 26:57Jordi Hays?

  Treasury company.

• 26:58John Coogan?

  Treasury company. And Palmer just quote tweets them into the stratosphere by saying, AlphaTun is lying. This is not true. Public heads up to CEO Brittany Kaiser slash own your data now. The whistleblower who is Bitcoin, AlphaTun Capital. That's the, I guess that's the owner of this. You do not have permission to use my trademarks to defraud your investors. And Brittany says, hey Palmer, we signed an agreement to purchase economic exposure to Anduril shares through an SPV and to accumulate more exposure over time and offer access via formal secondary's product. Given our network's demand for your innovative tech, I will issue a clarification.

• 27:41John Coogan?

  And Palmer says, that isn't what you and your company said, though. To be extremely clear, Anduril has to authorize these types of transfers and I will not authorize it. Wow.

• 27:51Jordi Hays?

  Like this looks like an AI bot is just like posting, but this is a public company.

• 27:55John Coogan?

  It, yeah, it does look like just some sort of like complete slop scam. Like you would assume that, you would assume that if you go down this particular funnel, you wind up at like, hey, you know, like, send me some random crypto or something like it, it feels very scammy and it's, I mean, it, you know, Palmer is sort of calling it a scam, but it is a public company, I guess.

• 28:18Jordi Hays?

  Well, I'm sure Anduril's legal counsel will really enjoy.

• 28:23John Coogan?

  Having a nice calm holiday weekend, I'm sure, while they clean this mess up. One of many. Chew by, this is the new phrase. This is the new word you gotta learn.

• 28:31Jordi Hays?

  Chew by.

• 28:32John Coogan?

  People know chopped.

• 28:33Jordi Hays?

  The Duchess of Bushwick says, recently invented the word chew by, which is when something is both chopped and also spiritually Dubai. Examples, So House, Goyard, Pandora, Carbone, Kith. Drop your chew by things in the comments. So House, I gotta say, I think it's spiritually very English. I mean, that's obviously the origin of it. But, uh, but yeah, again, again.

• 28:57John Coogan?

  But is England spiritually Dubai now? Who knows? It's possible.

• 29:02Jordi Hays?

  Oat milk is definitely chew by.

• 29:04John Coogan?

  Better to be chew by than just chopped, though.

• 29:06Jordi Hays?

  I don't, yeah, but also I don't, I don't wanna, there's a lot of great things about Dubai. You can rent an SF 90 for the day for like a grand. I did that at one point during F1 in, in 2020, uh, 2022.

• 29:21John Coogan?

  If you ever fall off, people are gonna be calling you chew by for sure.

• 29:24Jordi Hays?

  Chew by.

• 29:25John Coogan?

  Massive Balenciaga sneakers. I saw these at breakfast this morning. Are those chew by?

• 29:30Jordi Hays?

  Ben says, imagine looking for a news show and finding this.

• 29:36John Coogan?

  Yeah, it's so good.

• 29:41John Coogan?

  I was just laughing at like, yeah, the, the sack and the gong doesn't even make noise. You're really. We're trapped. With all due respect to TVPN, I think this gets things a little backwards. CBS is basically unique in the network news business in being able to generate buzz. 60 Minutes still has great ratings and other CBS News properties produced. Talked about stuff too. Let's see his examples. So he has a, he's an older man and a younger woman next to each other.

• 30:08Jordi Hays?

  Do you know who that is?

• 30:09John Coogan?

  I don't.

• 30:10Jordi Hays?

  That is, uh, you're.

• 30:11John Coogan?

  He, what, he, does he run the Navy? He has a Navy shirt on.

• 30:14Jordi Hays?

  I think he run, I think he runs football.

• 30:16John Coogan?

  Okay, football player? Cool.

• 30:18Jordi Hays?

  I think he's with his.

• 30:21John Coogan?

  What position does he play? Isn't he a little old to play football? I thought you had to be like, we had Saquon on the show. I thought you had to be like

• 30:28Jordi Hays?

  His shirt's looking a little It's vintage Tyler.

• 30:31John Coogan?

  He said, "The reason why Alison wanted CBS and wanted Barry to run it is precisely because it was still capable of creating buzz and generating attention." They still got it over there and yeah, seems, seems, seems, seems good. It does feel like it's breaking through in a different way. It feels like it's like, like the, the content is, is shifting to something that's more certainly breaking through. I see, I see the clips. I feel like I see the clips more, but I don't know. In other news, Tim Sweeney says that Fortnite will not return to iOS in Japan in 2025 as promised. Apple was required to open up the iOS, uh, iOS to competing stores today. And instead of doing so, honestly, they have launched another travesty of obstruction and law breaking and gross disrespect to the government and people in Japan. Apple chose poorly again.

• 31:15Jordi Hays?

  Tim Sweeney is really Apple's worst nightmare.

• 31:17John Coogan?

  It's crazy. Very few companies have like such an outspoken just hater, you know? Like

• 31:23Jordi Hays?

  He was heavily, heavily, heavily, heavily incentivized.

• 31:25John Coogan?

  I guess, I guess Sam Altman has yawned. He wants Fortnite to be free, at least not completely free, but free to, to run their own stores. Arkway, this was an interesting

• 31:35Jordi Hays?

  By Caleb Barclay. Arkway.

• 31:39John Coogan?

  Oh, funny.

• 31:40Jordi Hays?

  A real time 3D engine where anyone can design a home. It is a simulated 3D world where buyers explore, change and decide as light physics, building rules and real products move as one. Very cool. I've seen Redfin playing around with some

• 31:54John Coogan?

  They're backed by NDVC. Yeah, I wonder if this will be, wind up be integrated into Zillow so you can like fully tour the house. This has always been sort of the dream. The Matterport team did a big job like pulling up, uh, uh, like, you know, 3D environments, like, you know, uh, spherical scans of various rooms within

• 32:15John Coogan?

  A home that you could see and a lot of that got wound wound up getting integrated to Zillow and Redfin. Okay, I want to know what it looks like during Christmas. I want to know what this house looks like. Yeah, um, we'll see. Any breaking news?

• 32:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, new executive order centered around the kind of NASA stuff. It's called ensuring American space superiority.

• 32:32Jordi Hays?

  I just searched executive order and the top story is Trump signs executive order expediting marijuana reclassification after lobbying from cannabis industry over at CNN. So he's really taking us to space.

• 32:44John Coogan?

  Who is, yeah, yes, who's lobbying cannabis?

• 32:48Speaker 02

  Okay, well, this, yeah, different space I'm talking about. So one is he wants to, uh, it's protees are returning Americans to the moon by 2028 and establishing initial elements of permanent lunar outpost by 2030.

• 33:01John Coogan?

  So.

• 33:02Speaker 02

  And then prepare for journey to Mars. Mars is is less, uh, kind of concrete Mars plans.

• 33:08John Coogan?

  I feel like his, his, he should add get Trump to space. He's never been. Take him on a little field trip. Get him pumped up. Put him on a rocket. Get him up there. Get him back. That'd be fun.

• 33:18Jordi Hays?

  I feel like Trump would want to be the first president to go to space.

• 33:22John Coogan?

  That is, that does feel like something he would want to do.

• 33:24Jordi Hays?

  Or I also feel like he'd want to rename the moon Trump moon.

• 33:31Jordi Hays?

  Or just Trump, drop the moon. Yeah. Oh, that's planet Trump.

• 33:36John Coogan?

  Planet Trump is wild.

• 33:38Jordi Hays?

  I mean, there's a lot, there's, you maybe could have a Melania planet, too.

• 33:43John Coogan?

  Mars, call it Mars. Yeah.

• 33:44Jordi Hays?

  We will be back tomorrow for the final show of the year. It will be surreal. And thanks for hanging out with us today and our guests, and we hope you have a lovely afternoon.

• 33:55John Coogan?

  Goodbye.