Apple’s ‘Pro and Tell,’ Google’s Two New AI Models, OpenAI Eyes Google’s Custom Chips | Diet TBPN

Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after. Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. TBPN is made possible by: Ramp - https://ramp.com Public - https://public.com Cisco - https://www.cisco.com Console - https://www.console.com CrowdStrike - https://www.crowdstrike.com Figma - https://www.figma.com MongoDB - https://www.mongodb.com NYSE - https://www.nyse.com Railway - https://railway.com Shopify - https://www.shopify.com/ Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

• 0:01Speaker 00

  How was your morning, Jordy?

• 0:03Speaker 01

  It was great, but this morning is all about you.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  Mine was even better because I got to-

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Well, I was getting a fantastic workout.

• 0:09Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah?

• 0:10Speaker 01

  You were at some computer event.

• 0:12Speaker 00

  I was. I went to the Apple event this morning, Pro and Tell, very exciting. Speculation was all over the place. John Turnus shared a video of a cutout, a spotlight of the Apple logo shining on a wall brightly. You can see this video teaser. What do you think he's teasing? Christian Reber times in, "Apple car, obviously. They're just gonna drop the Apple car on you."

• 0:38Speaker 01

  Out of nowhere.

• 0:39Speaker 00

  Midweek on a Wednesday in a 10-minute keynote. No, it was a touchscreen, touchscreen MacBook Pro. And it was cool. This was my first Apple event in person. Obviously, I've been watching keynotes since I was a young child. I remember watching like the Steve Jobs keynotes in college. It was amazing. And seeing like those clips, we've watched a bunch of these on the show, and we've seen the evolution, the COVID era, the highly-produced big keynotes. This is a smaller event. You know, they're doing a number of launches. They launched the iPad. But man, John Turnus, the star power is incredible. I'm not joking. Like, he is so good on stage. He's incredible.

• 1:20Speaker 00

  What are you trying to hit the guys?

• 1:22Speaker 01

  No, I was hitting the chat button.

• 1:24Speaker 00

  Okay. I was like, why can't I hear it? No, he's really, really good. So, I mean, the whole script was very tight, very quick recap on what they've launched so far, like 15 seconds iPad Mini, 15 seconds on the MacBook Pro with the M6, and then straight into the touchscreen, they play a little example video, which had a hilarious theme to it, which was "if you give a mouse a cookie." They took the story of "if you give a mouse a cookie" and applied it. We should actually play the full ad because Tim Cook shared it on X. He said, "We brought touch to the Mac. We brought touch to the Mac from the new iPad, from the all-new iPad Mini to the MacBook Pro." Let's play this.

• 2:06Speaker 02

  Like a Pro OLED. Yeah, a Pro OLED XDR. So it'll have more vivid colors, brighter brightness, blacker blacks, razor-sharp contrast. Then you've got a totally portable reference monitor.

• 2:31Speaker 02

  So you'll need anti-glaring reflection, burn-in protection, and real-time pixel correction. It'll look so real, you'll want to reach out and touch it.

• 2:42Speaker 00

  Boom. Mic drop.

• 2:48Speaker 00

  No, they clearly listened to you. You were making fun. It's always just thinner, lighter, faster. Boom. You can't say that add and touch-

• 2:54Speaker 01

  Our most touchable.

• 2:55Speaker 00

  Touchable, touchscreen, that's not thinner, that's not lighter, that's not faster, that's a different vector of new features.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  It's our most touchable MacBook Pro yet.

• 3:04Speaker 00

  It is. No, I have no idea if this will be useful, or I will want the touchscreen version. I can't imagine a situation where I want that, and I would be very worried about fingerprints. I'm already like constantly battling smudges on my screen, and I don't really like using Window, Windex cleaner. I guess I should get the official Apple polishing cloth, which is like-

• 3:26Speaker 01

  Full employment for computer detailers, which we've pitched-

• 3:30Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  A bunch of times-

• 3:31Speaker 00

  No, no, I agree.

• 3:33Speaker 01

  As a great business-

• 3:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  At least in San Francisco, you know, schedule different companies, go by the office, take the computer for 10 minutes.

• 3:40Speaker 00

  We actually haven't solved that here. Like, we should, we should figure that out.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  No, you tried to clean your computer and your hands were burned by like a very toxic-

• 3:48Speaker 00

  It was terrible.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  Something off of Amazon.

• 3:50Speaker 00

  Nick was really skimping on the, on the cleaning supplies, and I got chemical burns all over my hands. No, we should, we should figure that out.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  So, yeah, my reaction to the launch is like, why the heck not? You know? You should be able to touch the screen of your computer. Why the heck not? Seems, you know, seems pretty cool. I don't, I don't think I'll care one way or another when I, when I upgrade my Mac next, if it has a, if it has a touchscreen or not.

• 4:18Speaker 00

  Yeah. I don't even know if it's an option that you pick. The actually bigger thing that's an update is the, is the OLED display, which if you've, if you've watched an OLED TV, like, it is brighter, the blacks are darker, it's actually a nicer contrast ratio, and a lot of people have been upgrading to OLED TVs, and they're like, "Yeah, this is better." And so bringing that to the MacBook Pro makes a lot of sense. It's been-

• 4:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's interesting because it, you know, the Mac, the Pro line-

• 4:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  You know, historically was for professionals, still is, but I don't think any of the, like, the most hardcore power users are like, "Yes, like, thank you for delivering the thing that I cared about." What did you learn about the Hinge? Are we gonna be experiencing this?

• 5:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, no, no. I think it is better. Is that an Air or a Pro?

• 5:06Speaker 01

  Pro.

• 5:07Speaker 00

  Okay, because mine's kind of similar. When I moved it around, it seemed not to do the springiness thing. You see how like when I do this, it like springs back and forth? It seemed not to do that. So it seems like they improved the, it seems like they improved the-

• 5:19Speaker 01

  Because if you have to hold it, reinforce it while you're touching it, it's gonna be a little rough.

• 5:23Speaker 00

  Well, I think the default, the default way you'll use the MacBook Pro touchscreen will be like this. You'll put both hands, then you can scroll Instagram and TikTok right here.

• 5:31Speaker 01

  You're like dri, like, like you're driving.

• 5:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, like you're driving. Like a huge iPad. I don't know, but John Turnus, very, very good on stage. Whatever he's been doing, practicing, it didn't, I think he has a confidence monitor with maybe some script, but like, it felt very memorized, like, and delivered perfectly.

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:50Speaker 00

  They really take that seriously. The other interesting thing about the, the actual keynote was that they didn't put the price up on the screen. Typically, there's like, "We do all this, and it's a, it's a phone, and it's a music player, and it's a blah, blah, blah, and it has the best screen ever, and it's only $199, or $999, or $2,999." We're no longer in that era because of the memory crunch and the, and the price of components going up, and so the price was not on screen. You can actually see it on apple.com, something around $2,900 for the 14-inch. The 16-inch is gonna be $3,400 to start, which is on the pricier end, but-

• 6:33Speaker 01

  And the way you specced it was 60?

• 6:36Speaker 00

  $6,000, $60.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  They also have an own nothing and be happy option. You can lease it.

• 6:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, you can lease it.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  36 months.

• 6:47Speaker 00

  I mean, it's not that crazy. Yeah, I mean, a lot of people are buying these for work. They're expensing them, and so there's, there's a way. And then, I mean, at the price for performance, like, you're in the right realm. It's not that dramatic. But we can talk more about the, this strategy that's merging with Mark Gurman. The interesting thing was that, that, that, that initial like light shined on the wall. That was a teaser for the fact that the Apple logo now lights up on the back of the screen.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I completely, I hadn't really been thinking about the fact that that had gone away.

• 7:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  Seemingly to save money.

• 7:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  And now they're bringing it back.

• 7:27Speaker 00

  And this-

• 7:28Speaker 01

  And it's crazy in hindsight because it's like, yeah, they probably saved a little bit of money, but it's so, such an iconic part of the Mac experience that was just gone.

• 7:36Speaker 00

  You're pro. You're pro having-

• 7:38Speaker 01

  Pro bringing it back.

• 7:39Speaker 00

  Cool.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  It offers no utility.

• 7:41Speaker 00

  So that might be the thing that gets you this cycle.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  I'm sold.

• 7:44Speaker 00

  You don't want the touchscreen, you don't care about the OLED, but the light up back is interesting to you. No, I mean, the, the applause from the audience at that moment was the biggest it was of everything, even more than touch. Like, even more than anything else, you know? Like, that was what people were excited about.

• 8:02Speaker 01

  Maybe, maybe they're bringing it back because a lot of people are live streaming, sometimes, you know, MacBooks are, are on screen-

• 8:11Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, you can't really tell what we have. I need to position it like this, if I really want to be nice to Apple comms. Here we go. Boom, nailed it. No, people were very excited about this. And yes, my theory is that it probably costs like $2 per unit to do that, and back when they were selling MacBooks for $1,000, that was, you know, a fifth of a percent of the total price, and maybe, you know, half a percent of the total component cost or something like this. These are very estimated numbers. But when the top-line price goes up because of memory going up and because of chips going up in price, all of a sudden, like, the, the technology that it costs to light up the Apple logo probably hasn't changed in price. It's probably, maybe even gotten cheaper.

• 8:53Speaker 00

  It might just be still $2. And so now they're like, well, most people are gonna be speccing these at like $4,000. $2 relative to $4,000 is way less than $2, $2 relative to $1,000.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  And Turnus feels like a guy that's like, yes, it's not necessary, yes, it has no utility other than like sort of brand-

• 9:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  And just sort of like enjoy, like enjoyment for the user. It looks nice.

• 9:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, and I think that's the premium Apple brand that they need to like stick with and stay with and stuff. So I thought that was, that was a nice touch. What did Google launch?

• 9:27Speaker 01

  Google has a couple new models. Sundar says, "Excited to share Genie 4, today our most realistic and interactive world model."

• 9:33Speaker 00

  This was really cool.

• 9:33Speaker 01

  "Steer dynamic environments in real-time, shaping events, camera angles and actions. Generate native audio, match the world, from realistic background sounds to characters who can converse in real-time." Simulate photorealistic scenes in real world physics, create more coherent multi-step events through reasoning from Gemini, and they've started to roll it out as a research preview. Looks incredible. I think that the primary use case for world models for me personally so far is, you know, making me think that it's more likely that we're living in our own simulation.

• 10:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:07Speaker 01

  I don't know who's using these.

• 10:09Speaker 00

  Well, right now, it's mostly research previews, so researchers are using them. And the immediate, the immediate thing is like, okay, it could be fun. It could just be something that you want to spend time in. So it's like a video game. It's a substitute for video games, or even just a full video game that you want to pay for, or subscribe to, or upgrade your plan to be able to tinker in. But the, the immediate case for content creators is like, set extensions, virtual backdrops, like, you can, you could effectively composite yourself into this world, and your camera could be moving you around. You've seen those videos of people larping with Higgs field, you've seen this? Where people would be like, "Look, look at me," and it's like them, and it's like, "This

• 10:54Speaker 00

  is my Lamborghini." And they've dynamically replaced the Honda Civic with Lamborghini, and then they're like, "And I'm on my private jet," and it's actually just their back staircase, or whatever. This allows you to do it in real time, if it's this high quality, because it can, it can interpret where the camera position is, and then dynamically generate the world. So even if you're, even if I'm filming you, and I have a virtual backdrop on you, and I'm like, "Okay, we're in, we're on the beach," and then we go outside, it can, it can imagine what's outside, and it says, "Okay, now we're, now we're on the boardwalk of the beach," and it can continually recreate this. So there will be some interesting, like, real-time applications as this rolls out.

• 11:34Speaker 00

  Everyone is probably familiar with the simulation hypothesis, proposes that what one experiences as the real world is actually a simulated reality, such as a computer simulation in which humans are constructs. Everyone's thinking we're in a simulation, in a simulation now. You had a different thesis, different hypothesis, the racing simulation hypothesis, which is that our world, what we know as Earth, what we know as the human experience, in fact exists in a racing simulator run by a higher-level organism that exists purely to propagate F1 and the F1 circuit.

• 12:12Speaker 01

  Motorsports broadly.

• 12:13Speaker 00

  And everything else that we do, Genie 4 isn't available yet, because you've played with some of them before.

• 12:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, I've played with Genie 3 a bunch. It was very fun.

• 12:21Speaker 00

  Genie 3?

• 12:22Speaker 03

  I don't have access to Genie 4 yet.

• 12:23Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 12:24Speaker 03

  I think it's still on, you have to like, apply to their like, early access program.

• 12:27Speaker 00

  Okay. I'm, I'm excited for that to roll out and be able to play. Jordi, what is the next Google?

• 12:32Speaker 01

  They got another model, multiple models this week. Sundar is back. He says, "I did say we'd be releasing our models periodically, introducing Gemini 4 Carbon, their next frontier model, which follows Argon's release just two weeks ago. Carbon shows the pace at which we're pushing the frontier, and it ranks number one on the recently updated V5 of the Artificial Analysis Intelligence Index at 59. And it also leads across cybersecurity evaluations, scoring 88.2% on SEC Bench Pro for finding vulnerabilities, and 54.8% on ExploitGym." Yeah, so very excited to see the reaction here. Seems like a great launch.

• 13:11Speaker 01

  Elon says it's impressive, and I think, again, they have to, at this point, have been learning from the sort of series of, of benchmark disappointments that they seemingly have had for about a year.

• 13:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, Semi Analysis is taking shots, right?

• 13:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, just about, about a year straight, where every single time, it's amazing on benchmarks, and then the, the sort of lived experience that people have is less impressive.

• 13:42Speaker 00

  I liked Gemini 3. I thought Gemini 3 had like, a good flavor to it. Maybe it was overly benchmarked, but it felt like it wasn't too verbose. Felt like it sort of answered questions in like, one page of text. And so I could like, see it, and see the answer, and kind of parse it easy, as opposed to getting like, pages and pages and pages, which is what LLMs do. It can be a little bit much. I was confused by this, because it feels like the, the hierarchy, like, with, with, like, Luna, Terra, Sol, Astra, I kind of understand that like, the moon is smaller than the Earth, the Earth is smaller than the Sun, the Sun is smaller than the celestial bodies.

• 14:24Speaker 00

  Same thing with Anthropic, where it's like, a Sonnet is shorter than an Opus, a Mythos is bigger. I kind of understood that. This is interesting, because they're going in maybe the opposite direction, depending on how you rank them. So Argon is the 18th atomic number, whereas Carbon's number 6. And so, does that leave them open to do a lithium, a helium, a hydrogen model that's like, bigger? Are they gonna go that direction? I like that they have a name.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  You think they're gonna do a helium model?

• 14:56Speaker 04

  Yes, I, I think the helium model could be the biggest model from DeepMind in years. It could change everything. It would be the, it would be significantly bigger than their new Carbon model, and the helium model will sell extremely well. You'll see it showing up on the Ramp Index any, any moment now, when they launch the helium model.

• 15:21Speaker 00

  Yeah. But it, it does sort of beg the question, yeah, like, what is the, what is the taxonomy here? It's kind of cool that they left a lot of space between Carbon and Argon for sodium, magnesium.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  Sodium. Honestly.

• 15:37Speaker 00

  Neon, aluminum.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  I love salt.

• 15:39Speaker 00

  Silicon's in there, phosphorus, sulfur.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  I would have liked if they did some more.

• 15:42Speaker 00

  I don't think you want a sulfur model.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  I would have liked some more fear mongering, they could do plutonium.

• 15:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:46Speaker 01

  Fluorine.

• 15:47Speaker 00

  Well, that's really deep. So, in the, this is what I'm saying, in the DeepMind taxonomy right now, plutonium would sound like a really scary model, but it would actually be much smaller than Carbon, because it goes from, Carbon's the biggest and best, then Argon, at 18, at the 18 atomic number, is smaller, and then you go way down to plutonium, and it's actually like, the least effective, the least smart model, in theory? I don't know.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  They should do Gemini 5 Nuke.

• 16:15Speaker 00

  Nuke. Yeah, we, wait, don't you have a button for that? I thought we had a button for Nuke.

• 16:20Speaker 01

  No, I think we, I think we removed.

• 16:21Speaker 00

  I think it's too, too aggressive for the show. Oh, here we go, Tyler has the truth there. Gemini plutonium's coming in any minute now. No! The truth nuke is good. Really slow still. The longest soundboard effect we have. But this, this all feels like, okay, a year ago, people were talking about like, the naming schemes at the labs don't make any sense. OpenAI was probably the worst offender with like, 4.0, and then like, you'd go to 4.5, which was a bigger model, but it was slower, and then there was like, Omni versus Fastmo, and it was like, too much, and everyone was like, "I don't get it."

• 17:00Speaker 00

  And then, and then it was like, 5.4, 5.5, 5.6, and then eventually, OpenAI said, "Okay, we're, we're going to use a human legible, not just purely numbers. We're gonna go Terra, Luna, Sol, Astra." And that, I feel like, makes a lot of, a lot more sense to people. It's just more intuitive. And so, I like that OpenAI's adopted that format, I like that Google's adopted that format, and I hope that the version numbers kind of melt away, and you're just in the world of like, okay, like, big model for this task, small model for that task, and, and it's a little bit, it's a little bit easier to just intuitively get a grasp of what every model is capable of.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  Anyways.

• 17:43Speaker 00

  But.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  Amazing benchmarks.

• 17:45Speaker 00

  Good benchmarks.

• 17:46Speaker 01

  Excited to see the reactions.

• 17:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  And.

• 17:49Speaker 00

  And the ramp data.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. In other news, OpenAI, OpenAI plans to buy Google's chips as part of its AI build-out. So now we have TPUs. Last week, it was, it was OpenAI models on GCP.

• 18:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  Feels like, start of a new era.

• 18:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, sort of a new era, I don't know. I mean, yeah, I guess OpenAI was founded because they were like, "Google's bad," right?

• 18:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

• 18:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's a good point. Now it's like, they're not that bad. But this is the same thing with like, Anthropic and Elon. It was like, you know, very, very diametrically opposed, you know, politically.

• 18:24Speaker 01

  Well, yeah.

• 18:25Speaker 00

  But it's like, hey, they got compute, and we need compute. Yeah, so.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:29Speaker 00

  Business above all. Business solves everything. Let's give it up for business.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  Let's give it up for business.

• 18:34Speaker 00

  Business solves everything.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Dylan Patel says, "Semi Analysis clients had this already."

• 18:40Speaker 00

  Whoa!

• 18:41Speaker 01

  Screen shot.

• 18:42Speaker 00

  Little victory lap.

• 18:43Speaker 01

  "AI lab's largest lease ever, more massive deals in the pipeline, AMD taking share, question mark." "OpenAI's quarter is one 8-gigawatt multi-phase commitment in Ohio, with Nvidia backstopping 4.25 gigawatts. It's the largest single leasing commitment we have ever seen."

• 18:57Speaker 00

  Cool.

• 18:58Speaker 01

  "In addition, we believe that OpenAI is discussing with NeoClouds for both GPU as a service and TPU as a service. We think there's a 1-gigawatt TPU commitment, and OpenAI is looking for sites."

• 19:09Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  "Anthropic leased 1.7 gigawatts this quarter, with notably 360 megawatts in Queensland, Australia. Let's give it up for compute down under. Signed on 16th of September, with operations starting in the first quarter of '28, the largest overseas lease by an AI lab this quarter. The 1.7 gigawatts includes 1 gigawatt backstop by Google, but also a large site where we aren't sure yet who will provide the credit support."

• 19:35Speaker 00

  Do you think AI researchers are gonna be okay with doing inference in Australia? That's kind of controversial, right? Because they're known for throwing another shrimp on the barbie.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  Oof.

• 19:43Speaker 00

  That's rough.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  Oof.

• 19:45Speaker 00

  You're gonna have to do a truce. No more throwing shrimp on the Barbie. Just Fosters. Just enjoy your Fosters.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  Enjoy your Fosters.

• 19:52Speaker 00

  And stick to inference and Fosters. Uh, no more shrimp. Every lab is using every part of the animal. Like it's the, you know, they're fully.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  They're going whole hog.

• 20:02Speaker 00

  They're going whole hog. They're using everything, uh, everything they possibly can. Every lab is using every chip and every data center and every hyperscaler and every uh, NeoCloud. And they're using it all for all different things and different chips will be better at different models and different part pieces of the inference stack. And like, everything will be u- used. Uh, very good for the, like, if you've been in semis and, and you know, NeoClouds and all this stuff. Like, uh, rising tide will like lift all boats as everything becomes, like, there was a moment where it was like, oh, if you made the wrong architectural decision, like you would get smoked. That was the theory. And now it's like, oh, actually, uh, these models, at least a piece of the models can be like,

• 20:40Speaker 00

  used in niche areas for different things. And so even if, even if one chip is better at something faster, but that what's less smarter, smarter but slower, like, like there will be an optimal way to, to get a model running on that. And with AI agents, it's pretty easy to port to different things. I, I think we saw that from the AMD uh, coverage we did with Lisa Sue, where Anthropic vibe coded their AMD implementation like pretty quickly. So, um, good for anyone who was betting on an oligopoly in silicon, rougher if you were like, this will not be a car-like market. But still very, very early, still a lot of dependence on Nvidia, obviously. So, uh, nothing too scary there.

• 21:22Speaker 00

  But, uh, just interesting that, uh, everything is getting used by everyone. So that's kind of my update. Uh, anyway, well, if you want to get in the game, there's a 300 rack AI supercomputer powered by 9,600 Nvidia A100 GPUs. It's on eBay. You can just buy it.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  Head over to eBay.

• 21:39Speaker 00

  If you were thinking about starting a NeoCloud, getting in the token, selling business, uh, hit up your local banker. Get a credit line for 60 mil. Go on eBay, click it. Uh, fair market value for this.

• 21:53Speaker 01

  eBay up 16% over the last six months, likely because people are realizing that this, it's a compute marketplace.

• 22:00Speaker 00

  Apparently, yeah. Uh, fair market value for this would be closer to 50, maybe 55 million, but, uh, you could still.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  I love how the screenshot, it says in six carts.

• 22:11Speaker 00

  In six carts? Oh, like people have added it?

• 22:16Speaker 00

  Two available. Wait, they have two available of these? Wow. Um, yeah, interesting. Uh, pretty, pretty solid depreciation too. This hardware originally sold, uh, for, uh, something like, uh, what was, what, what was this originally, originally went for? Let me, let me find it. Uh, 60 million now. The original hardware was almost 300 million. So there is depreciation, but there's still some value there. Of course, there's the A100's a seven-year-old chip now, something like that. Um, and so, um, you're banging the table. You're, you're hitting buy? Are you bidding?

• 22:54Speaker 01

  I was getting excited.

• 22:55Speaker 00

  Oh, you're just getting excited? Okay.

• 22:56Speaker 01

  No, very old chip, still worth a lot of money.

• 22:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, totally.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  It's the price of one dinosaur.

• 23:01Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Which one would you do? Jordy, which one are you going with?

• 23:05Speaker 01

  Are you going Gus? The, the T-Rex? Or are you going these GPUs? I think, um, I think I'm still to, to my oldest dismay, I'm still going, I'm going for the GPUs.

• 23:17Speaker 00

  You're going for the GPUs?

• 23:18Speaker 01

  Just because I think Malibu inference would be a great name for, uh, a NeoCloud.

• 23:24Speaker 00

  Yeah. And everyone's been making that claim. Oh, like put the data centers in like luxury towns. And you're like, yeah, I got one right here. Um, also you could stack GPUs up in the shape of a dinosaur.

• 23:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 23:36Speaker 00

  So that you have a beautiful architecture in your foyer. Uh, you'd of, of course need to add a lot of cooling. Cause all of a sudden your entryway is the hot aisle. That'd be rough, but, uh, it would make a statement. People would come in, they know you mean business. They know, they know you do, you do local compute. You're not paying API pricing, you know, you're saving dollars every.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  Why on earth does Malaysia have so much compute, John? Can you take a guess?

• 24:03Speaker 00

  It's a mystery.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  Nobody knows.

• 24:04Speaker 00

  Nobody knows.

• 24:05Speaker 01

  Nobody knows. It is a total mystery.

• 24:07Speaker 00

  This was the first story we talked about on this show. The very first show.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 24:11Speaker 00

  Very first show, I opened up the Wall Street Journal and, uh, and there was, uh, an article right on the cover about Malaysia being the new, uh, the new data center hub because.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  We gotta send you down there.

• 24:23Speaker 00

  They are the Switzerland of AI. That was sort of the, sort of the framing was that they can buy compute from the US and resell it in China. And so that was an incredible adv- advantage and they had a lot of power, uh, between the different, uh, locations there. And, uh, the, the, the government was sort of set up to allow a lot of compute build out. Um, pretty, pretty interesting. Uh, they, they have a lot. It's not that much compared to America. I mean, uh, Malaysia is not the green bar here. They're not the red bar. The red bar is China.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  I'm actually surprised that, I'm, I'm surprised that the EU has more compute than Malaysia.

• 25:01Speaker 00

  Okay, yeah.

• 25:01Speaker 01

  Aren't you?

• 25:02Speaker 00

  Uh, no, because the EU is huge and Malaysia is like a pretty small country.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  I know. But like they, they, Malaysia seems to be going so long.

• 25:10Speaker 00

  Yeah. Also, uh, Malaysia is interesting. These are sort of like the, uh, the AI industrial hub to Singapore. So Singapore's the, the global financial hub, the port city. So everything's coming in there. You get stuff delivered through Singapore and then you set it up in Malaysia, just a hop, skip and a jump over like a, a small river or small, uh, I don't know. Small waterway to get to where you actually need to deliver the final product. So, uh, interesting. But yes, I imagine that a lot of Chinese AI lab compute, if they're doing training, they're probably using like a Malaysian NeoCloud that's racking Nvidia chips. Uh, and they can, because there aren't as many trade restrictions, I think, something like that. Anyway.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  Uh, Lucas. The grubber, grubberinator. Lucas Gruber.

• 25:55Speaker 00

  Grubinator.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  Says, uh, Instinct is currently raising at 30 billion, 100 to 500 to two and a half to 10 to 30 in sub one year. If you're still not inside the private market, this should be a good signal to bid aggressively. Wealth creation is going to be heavily skewed towards private investors over the coming decade.

• 26:19Speaker 00

  T B.

• 26:19Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 26:20Speaker 00

  There is more risk and there is more reward. And so that's why venture capital firms diversify and.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:26Speaker 00

  And LPs diversify across venture funds. Uh, but, uh, it is a historic.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  People, people are naturally crashing out over this. Not, not even the take that's, uh, that's embedded in this post. But just, just that trajectory.

• 26:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  Um, it is insanely aggressive if it's true, but, uh, again, this business has been growing so rapidly.

• 26:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:47Speaker 01

  And the interesting thing is like, it's very hard to judge Instinct's growth relative to Muse, simply because Instinct doesn't have an app. So it'd be really fascinating to see like, where would they sit in the App Store rankings, right?

• 27:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. What is, what is Muse doing on App Store ratings right now? Cause it was at the top of the App Store for a while.

• 27:07Speaker 01

  Right now you have TikTok Pro.

• 27:08Speaker 00

  Muse is.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  Invented, of course.

• 27:11Speaker 00

  Muse is being like promoted in the App Store. If you just go to the search button, Muse is right there. It's doing well. It has 380,000 ratings, almost all five stars, 4.9 average. So, uh, it's number one in productivity, but not number one overall because TikTok Pro is.

• 27:26Speaker 01

  And vinted, of course.

• 27:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, vinted. I was on vinted. I, I was looking at some stuff, picking up some, picking up some Rick Owens. Head to town. It's coming.

• 27:40Speaker 00

  Jordy said I couldn't be a lifestyle influencer, but I think if I pull up in the Rick Owens, the Supreme, the Bottega top hat, you're gonna be apologizing.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  I didn't say, I didn't say couldn't.

• 27:53Speaker 00

  You literally said, you literally said, you should lean into comedy. And I'm like, and then, and then my counter example is just a bunch more comedy. So I'm, a hundred percent. Anyway, uh, you can now text your dot. Yeah. So there are a ton of these AI agents that everyone seems.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  Anyways, anyways, so, so the other thing with Instinct is like so few people have real information around the business.

• 28:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  That it's impossible to, everyone can give a take, right? Because the number has, the valuation has grown so quickly, so fast. Um, but it's just really tough when you don't have the information, right? And so you're just, it's, uh, entirely, investors are making a decision based on what they're seeing in the business. Everyone else is giving takes based on how they feel about the number going up really fast.

• 28:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  And, um, yeah, it's hard, it's hard to, it's hard to see exactly like what, you can only imagine kind of the way that they're positioning the business, how they're, what Noah's vision is and all that kind of thing. Um.

• 28:48Speaker 00

  It also highlights like when new capability comes online from a frontier lab, it can be at the frontier of that new capability. But unless there is a commensurate marketing push, it not, it's not guaranteed that it gets adoption. Because you only have so much screen real estate in the ChatGPT app, in the Claude app, Anthropic has Duet now. I saw the announcement, but I haven't seen a lot of advertising around it. And so there's plenty of people that are like, oh yeah, I have Claude code in my terminal, but like, I'm a Muse guy. Or like I use Grok Bot in Slack, but then I use Codex for coding and, or I'm Cursor over here and Instinct in my personal life.

• 29:30Speaker 00

  There's so much effort that needs to go in. And so Instinct is at least focused on like, let's get this value prop in front of people. And I think that's sort of like the value of like, maybe it's oligopolistic, maybe it's a big market, maybe there is a winner take all. Like all the investors are still like piecing that together, but they're just seeing like incredible growth. Everyone we've talked to has been like, the charts are incredible. Like every, every month is just huge growth. Even while being attacked by Mark Zuckerberg, being attacked by DOT and, and Duet, like there's a whole bunch of other, uh, companies going after this. I have to imagine Google's gonna do something soon. They've launched similar products in the past and it's so in line with them. They already have your email. They have Google, uh, Maps that has all your reservations. They own, it's not Michelin, it's the, uh, Zagat. Is that it? You know that one?

• 30:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know who owns him.

• 30:16Speaker 00

  But they bought, they bought like a, like a restaurant review, like brand. And so they have a ton of advantages there.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, the crazy thing is compare Instinct.

• 30:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Instinct, if they're raising a 30 billion to where Cursor was when they were raising a 30, which like massive competition from the labs.

• 30:33Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 30:33Speaker 01

  And some questions around how they would, how, yeah, how they would handle that, that competition, basically competing with their suppliers, right, in some ways. But I believe at the time Cursor had like north of a billion dollars of revenue, right?

• 30:47Speaker 00

  They were worried about the margins, right?

• 30:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, their margins weren't great, but at least people were giving them like billions of dollars.

• 30:52Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  Right?

• 30:52Speaker 00

  And that's not happening.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  And so with Instinct, part of what's jarring is that you have the same level of competition, potentially even more, right? Because it's like you have the major AI players. You have the major AI players, then you also have Zuck saying.

• 31:04Speaker 00

  With Cursor, it was like Cursor was the lead IDE. And then you had Windsurf coming from behind, nipping at their heels. But you didn't really have a product that was a direct competitor from OpenAI or Anthropic or Google, really. In like the.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, until Claude Code and Codex.

• 31:19Speaker 00

  But those were, those were terminal agents and they did disrupt.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm saying they're ultimately competing over the same.

• 31:25Speaker 00

  Totally, totally.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  You know?

• 31:25Speaker 00

  But like in terms of like the actual product experience, like if you wanted to at least review some of the code, still be in that hybrid Centaur model. It was really Cursor was far and away number one. And then Windsurf was kind of nipping at the heels. But no, none of the big labs had direct competitor products. And then all of a sudden it was like, uh, but flipping it around, if you're looking at the Cursor example, you might say, okay, yeah, they don't have the revenue, but they have the, the consumer adoption. And look at what happened with Cursor. Felt crazy at 10 or 20 or whatever, but got the acquisition done. And you're looking at Amazon and Apple and saying, well, I see the money. They, there's the money to buy this company at a valuation above where I'm investing at 30.

• 32:10Speaker 00

  And so it could happen if Apple or Amazon make a crazy move.

• 32:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:14Speaker 00

  I don't know, maybe Google too. But the price is getting hot.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like Elon was in a unique position. How would that work from an antitrust standpoint? Like all these companies.

• 32:23Speaker 00

  It should, it should 100% be allowed. It's the most competitive industry right now. It's like a knife fight for the personal agents.

• 32:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:30Speaker 00

  Like, like you're going up against the monopoly guy, Mark Zuckerberg. Like, you're like, oh, wait, you're like Amazon, you're, you're acquiring Instinct to take a shot at OpenAI and Anthropic and Meta. Like go, go to town with that, I would think. But again, I can never predict antitrust. So like you, you might be right that like, they might just say, no, you're big. You can't make a big acquisition.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:53Speaker 00

  Period. Like it, it just, it might be framed differently. But as a, as a consumer, as an analyst of the industry, I see them as like, this is the most competitive tech category we've had in years.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  So taking out an upstart doesn't actually change the competitive dynamics.

• 33:10Speaker 00

  Leave us five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Sign up for our newsletter at tbpn.com.

• 33:14Speaker 01

  We didn't, we haven't been doing a road to Halloween.

• 33:17Speaker 00

  No.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  We're not big Halloween guys, but we might. But I am, I'm, I'm kind of excited.

• 33:22Speaker 00

  You haven't been taking your eye off the ball. Okay. Yeah.

• 33:25Speaker 01

  I'm, I am, I, I think Friday's show might be fun.

• 33:28Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  I think we might have a good time.

• 33:30Speaker 00

  You gotta tune in. Hit the subscribe bell, set a calendar notification. 11 AM Pacific on Friday is going to be one for the ages.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 33:39Speaker 00

  You're gonna want to tune in.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  It's gonna be a good time.

• 33:41Speaker 00

  It's gonna be great. Goodbye.