Crypto Going Bunker Mode, AI Mathpocalypse, Starbucks Explores Chipotle Takeover | Diet TBPN

Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after. Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. TBPN is made possible by: Ramp - https://ramp.com Public - https://public.com Cisco - https://www.cisco.com Console - https://www.console.com CrowdStrike - https://www.crowdstrike.com Figma - https://www.figma.com MongoDB - https://www.mongodb.com NYSE - https://www.nyse.com Railway - https://railway.com Shopify - https://www.shopify.com/ Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01John Coogan?

  It's the apocalypse day. There's so many apocalypses. Mathpocalypse, there's crypto apocalypse going on. Although the market is reacting in a very moderate way. But the timeline is being dramatic, so we got to break that down. Ethereum founder Vitalik Buterin and others in crypto are sounding the alarm that AI-driven math could threaten blockchain security. And so crypto is going bunker mode. That's the term that they're using. So we've all seen the progress in AI-driven math solving new proofs, solving Navier-Stokes. There's a lot of impressive progress in math

• 0:46John Coogan?

  that maybe has applications in physics, maybe has applications in engineering, fluid dynamics. A lot of these things are further out. And if they wind up being useful, they might increase efficiency here.

• 1:01Jordi Hays?

  Not as far out as you think.

• 1:02John Coogan?

  But the big thing is that crypto is here today. And if there's an advance in the underlying understanding of how cryptography works, it could really shake up how the crypto industry works and how these products are secured. So are they in danger?

• 1:21Speaker 02

  Cortisol rising.

• 1:22John Coogan?

  It's the Ralph Wiggum meme, I think. I'm in danger seeing all this. Matthew Green, who teaches cryptography at Johns Hopkins, put the situation in stark relief. He said, I think we might lose public key cryptography, which is a huge statement from an expert in cryptography. It would require a pretty massive restructuring of many security protocols, but also the crypto industry. At the moment, cryptography as a discipline has been exempted from the list of published papers related to AI-enabled math breakthrough. So there were hundreds of papers. And it's very clear that either the agent swarms that were sent to go solve math problems,

• 2:07John Coogan?

  they said, hey, don't even bother with any cryptography stuff. Or if they did, they didn't publish those. And they're burying them for now until there's a way to actually patch those.

• 2:18Jordi Hays?

  Or maybe the cryptography is just too strong.

• 2:20John Coogan?

  That's true. That's a third option. The crypto industry is a little skeptical about it. They think, man, there might be some flaws. Of course, they've been preparing for things like this before. Quantum computing is potentially existential to many blockchains. And so there has been the concept of Q Day and how they work backwards from that to make sure that they are quantum resistant.

• 2:42Jordi Hays?

  The interesting thing is like historically, when the crypto industry has faced headwinds, the strategy has been hodl.

• 2:48John Coogan?

  Hodl.

• 2:49Jordi Hays?

  And that's not necessarily going to be effective for this next chapter.

• 2:53John Coogan?

  That's true. Yeah, that's a good twist. Of course, there are very weird dynamics where if you break all the Bitcoin keys and all the wallets wide open and you completely erode all the trust that's been built up in that virtual currency, yeah, you stole it all, but it's worth nothing. And so the game theory there of no one would ever want to steal all the Bitcoin. Right? So it's more like, can someone go after long tail?

• 3:23Jordi Hays?

  I'm sure there's some people that would do it just for the love of the game.

• 3:25John Coogan?

  Just to watch the world burn Joker mode? Yeah, that's probably possible. We could be seeing a Jokerfied. Oh, you have the Joker ready to go. Yeah, a Jokerfied AI agent swarm would be a bad situation.

• 3:40Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 3:40John Coogan?

  For sure. But there is some cause for optimism. You know, much like the broader cybersecurity scare that happened back in March of this year, there's a gap between closed source and open source models. Most people say it's around six months. You know, the capabilities catch up in certain areas. It seems like it's faster. Sometimes it's three months, but six month is sort of a useful heuristic I have found. And that actually maps out pretty perfectly with the most recent news. So if you remember, Mythos preview was dropped by Anthropic on April 7, 2026. It's the fourth month of the year. And then CrowdStrike announced that a 26-year-old in China

• 4:25John Coogan?

  used an open source Chinese-developed AI agent to execute cyber attacks against South Korean banks on October 7. Like the same, I think the report came out October 7. So it's basically just exactly six months later. You see like an open source model be used in a cyber attack. Fortunately, the banks have, you know, a ton of redundancies, the ability to roll back transactions. They store things to tape. They store things on paper sometimes. There's a lot of different ways to secure a traditional bank that is not purely digital, even though they might have a digital front end and a lot of the money might be stored digitally. And the interesting thing is that when I read

• 5:09John Coogan?

  at least about one of the South Korean bank cybersecurity incidents, it was a pretty small amount of user data that was stored. It was like names and addresses and like phone numbers of like, it was a significant number. It was like tens of thousands of clients or something like that. But it wasn't like they robbed the bank and they got the money or they got everyone. Somehow they got into like one system for information. So it could have been like they hacked into like their paperless post account. That was like what the bank used to send out invites to clients or something like that. Like there are a whole bunch of different systems. And where, at what level did they get in is important. But it's clearly happening.

• 5:49Jordi Hays?

  They got into the client gifting software.

• 5:52John Coogan?

  Potentially.

• 5:52Jordi Hays?

  They sent everyone chocolates.

• 5:54John Coogan?

  Maybe, maybe. And so obviously you don't want hackers anywhere. And so cybersecurity is more important than ever. And so the crypto community does have, you know, a couple of months to go bunker mode as they are putting it. And it feels like there'll be an incredible amount of progress on these like AI-proofing systems, but it's an entirely new challenge. It's much less understood than quantum computing, which has been theorized mathematically and sort of formalized for years before the capability came. This is different because we're getting this capability before we've really characterized the shape of the threat. Like they know with quantum, like there's something called Chor's algorithm. And like they got to fix that. So they got to make sure the Chor's algorithm doesn't work

• 6:39John Coogan?

  to break Bitcoin wallets open. They know the mathematical problem. They got to solve that. In this scenario, it's like there might be a different algorithm that runs on commodity hardware that works. And how do you know when you don't know the shape of the threat that's coming? So it's a crypto apocalypse potentially, but the market doesn't think it is. Bitcoin's only down 3% today and it's still up 3% for the month. And so the market is, you know, digesting this and optimistic. There's still, you know, lots to do if you work in crypto. And potentially, even if you only own some crypto, there's things to do. Vitalik gave some recommendations on, you know, don't panic, but also maybe start thinking about this more intently.

• 7:24John Coogan?

  He said, I don't recommend anyone scramble to move their funds to new wallets today, but we should take the risks of cryptography from AI-accelerated math seriously and minimize our exposure to not just quantum vulnerable cryptography, but also AI-vulnerable cryptography. The new core area of risk from this viewpoint is unfortunately MLDSA, FAG, lattices. And this is also another reason along with quantum why ECD SA might fall even faster than expected. Hence the fresh address recommendation. So far, most people have been in the mode of thinking elliptic curves, broken hashes, safe, lattices, safe. But there's a good chance that the concrete security of lattices

• 8:06John Coogan?

  will take serious hits from the next two years of AI math. And so some people were posting, Scott Liu here was saying, oh, that's weird. The AI math god is somehow no better at cryptography than a 2026 human. We got super intelligence in math, but not cryptography. What's going on? He thought for a minute.

• 8:30John Coogan?

  And I think the interpretation of this, and you can tell me if you disagree, is, yeah, it's because the AI math god is run by an American company that has no interest in destroying Bitcoin.

• 8:44Jordi Hays?

  In like total chaos.

• 8:44John Coogan?

  Yeah, but in the open source world, it's a very different game. And so still, still interesting to think about the, still interesting to think about the game theory even in the open source world. But I think that will all be downstream of a whole bunch of changes. And then there is the question of how does crypto handle this? Like the cryptocurrency industry has been libertarian. They've been against the government in many ways, small government. I want to own the money. Well, now you're facing a threat from open source, from a non-government regulated entity. And so while a lot of people in the AI safety community have said, this is the moment for big government. This is the moment to register large clusters. This is the moment to track all the data centers,

• 9:26John Coogan?

  to have licenses for inference and training and reporting to the government. That is a solution. Like if you lock down open source and you say, yeah, like if you're going to spin up a million agents and try and do a bunch of inference to try and break Bitcoin wallets, like we're going to find out about it. We're going to arrest you. And it doesn't matter that you're using it openly. That's a very different psychological frame of mind for a Bitcoiner.

• 9:52Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, the other thing here is that there's obviously bio risk with model advancements. But it is going to be wildly different for somebody to use an obliterated model to try to create a bioweapon and then actually. Sort of distribute that out into the world than like using a new model to try to like mess around with cryptography.

• 10:11John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 10:12Jordi Hays?

  That feels squarely in the hacker camp.

• 10:15John Coogan?

  Totally.

• 10:15Jordi Hays?

  Like there's people that would just be kind of messing around.

• 10:17John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 10:18Jordi Hays?

  And then accidentally have a breakthrough or accidentally.

• 10:22John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 10:22Jordi Hays?

  Or maybe intentionally cause financial chaos.

• 10:24John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 10:24Jordi Hays?

  But that's purely digital.

• 10:26John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 10:26Jordi Hays?

  And that's the kind of thing that millions of people have been doing for a very long time.

• 10:30John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 10:31Jordi Hays?

  Just generally kind of hacking around wildly different than the kind of person who would go out and try to create, you know, a new pandemic.

• 10:37John Coogan?

  Yeah. And then also, uh, another layer of this will feed into like the whole AI doom loss of control scenario because you get an AI agent that's hyper intelligent and it's also able to break Bitcoin wallets. It breaks a couple open, then it has capital with capital that can marshal more compute, hire people to do things in the real world, et cetera, et cetera. And so the, the, the, the doom scenario becomes like way more human enabled if you are able to amass capital pretty quickly as a rogue agent. Do you have a take on this Tyler?

• 11:13Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, I mean, I feel like the crypto industry broadly is like fairly good at self governance, right? You've seen like, even if you're talking about like Bitcoin, you know, there's like, they can actually like change the protocol, you know, you like Bitcoin Cash, which is the, the shoot off stuff like this.

• 11:26John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  I think the Bitcoin Policy Institute, like, um, I don't know, maybe, maybe a month or two ago had this open letter about how, you know, the solution is we've got to build up defenses much more and we've got to use, uh, you know, spend a lot on inference to try to like, figure out what, what is the right path going forward. It's, I, I think most people are very against like limiting open source models, stuff like that.

• 11:45John Coogan?

  Totally. It'll be, it'll be interesting to see how these, how these like worlds collide and, and where things go.

• 11:51Jordi Hays?

  Ben, I don't know if we, you included this earlier, but he says, lucky coincidence, the labs are only successfully cracking esoteric math problems and not the problems where a solution would give the winner an asymmetric commercial advantage. Again, this is what I've said a bunch of times on the show now. Math problems are the perfect category of problems where you get a result and you're, you know, incentivized and excited to share the result. There's no immediate opportunity to commercialize a lot of the, a lot of this stuff.

• 12:18John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 12:19Jordi Hays?

  And so for every breakthrough in math, you should assume there's a bunch of other breakthroughs in other fields.

• 12:25John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 12:26Jordi Hays?

  That have more commercial applications where the person that has, and, and it's not just the labs. It's people using the current frontier models to find breakthroughs in their own field. And so again, I'm expecting a, you know, a real explosion of progress, you know, especially as we enter the later half of this year.

• 12:43John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 12:43Jordi Hays?

  Or the, or the sort of.

• 12:44John Coogan?

  Uh, the.

• 12:46Jordi Hays?

  End of the, end of the year.

• 12:47John Coogan?

  I believe, uh, Will Depew posted about this. That's what I was thinking of. Will Depew posted, uh, I think there was like a slight Bitcoin sell off like a while ago, like maybe around the mid summer time period. And he sort of took a victory lap or something or was like saying like, uh, yeah, in hindsight, once we, once like the AI community built like the Hack Machine 9000, it should have been obvious that, uh, you should get out of crypto. Uh, and then what was odd was that, uh, crypto rallied after that. So like, he was kind of a little bit too early with the take, but now it feels like, okay, everyone's pieced it together a little bit more. But also there's so many other factors where you could see this narrative dying down and

• 13:30John Coogan?

  all of a sudden there's some other narrative that's driving crypto and people are piling in for whatever reason. So OpenAI's drop of hundreds of new mathematical proofs is now being called the mathpocalypse. There's some white pills, there's some black pills. People are all over the place. Obviously we talked about the crypto knock on effects. Um, Nabeel Kreshi says mathematicians, AI is plagiarism and we don't want to know the answers anyway. Artists, AI is plagiarism and the art sucks anyway. Chess players, hmm, I wonder if I can use AI to increase my rating.

• 14:04Jordi Hays?

  How do you prevent against like botting in online chess? I'm comparing that to like, let's say somebody using like an aim bot.

• 14:10John Coogan?

  Yeah, no, uh, no, I mean, bots are like undetectable, like all the bots can like one-shot captures and, and fake.

• 14:16Jordi Hays?

  But not even that, but basically just running like an AI co-pilot.

• 14:20John Coogan?

  Yeah, no, you can definitely do that.

• 14:21Jordi Hays?

  So unless you're playing chess physically in front of somebody and watching them, you know.

• 14:25John Coogan?

  Yeah. And then, and then, what, what do you think?

• 14:27Speaker 02

  Well, uh, I mean, if you're like elo is like 800 and then you start making like, you know, 2000 rated moves, like it's pretty easy to tell that stuff.

• 14:34John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 14:34Speaker 02

  It's like, I, I think like if you, if you're on chess.com or whatever, I think it's fairly hard to cheat.

• 14:39John Coogan?

  Hard to cheat or, or people just don't cheat because it's like, what's the point? And like, it's like, okay, yeah, I played against somebody who was like smurfing and they had an 800 elo account, but they were clearly playing at 2000 elo. Like, okay, I lost that game. Let me queue again. Okay. I got someone who's actually 800 and I'll just keep playing until I get someone who's actually my.

• 15:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's probably true. But if you're consistently using, um, like an engine, it's like, I think it's not that hard to figure that out.

• 15:06John Coogan?

  Yes, but like, this is going to change, like, because like the models will be so good.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  It's over.

• 15:12John Coogan?

  That, I mean, the models will be so good that you'll be able to say like, I'm, I'm elo 800, help me play at 850 and also really mimic the human experience. So don't make, don't.

• 15:25Speaker 02

  But yeah, I agree. There's like little incentive to actually cheat on chess.com.

• 15:28John Coogan?

  Yeah, I, I, yeah.

• 15:29Jordi Hays?

  Uh, Gold says you can tell if they're bots if they're statistically always or nearly always make the optimal move.

• 15:35John Coogan?

  Yeah, exactly. Like there's no fun and you can always just go play against the best stockfish model if you want. Like you can just max it out if you just want to play against the best computer in the world. Nobody does. And so there's not that much value in it because everyone would just be like, cool. Yeah. You just ran the model that everyone else has. Like, do you want to play against me or not? Like, if you want to just be the model, just go and you don't win anything. So there's not any incentive, I think. I think that's how it works out. I don't know.

• 16:01Jordi Hays?

  I mean, you, you in the gym have been accused of using, you know, robotic assisted lifts, right? You'll wear like big sweatpants and you're on the deadlift.

• 16:11John Coogan?

  Can you imagine having?

• 16:12Jordi Hays?

  And you have, you know, your exoskeleton, you know, putting up, you know, 800 pound deadlifts. I mean, people, you know, know you're strong, but not that strong.

• 16:21John Coogan?

  They're skeptical. There's a very interesting post in the, in the Wall Street Journal about a former NFL lineman who solved a decades old math problem. Uh, John Urschel gave up his career with the Baltimore Ravens to study math at MIT and he has.

• 16:36Jordi Hays?

  Get this guy on immediately.

• 16:38John Coogan?

  He, he's so jacked. It looks like, uh, yeah, he's, he's definitely, doesn't need the exoskeleton in the gym. Uh, he's a former NFL player, John Urschel, decided to do some light reading this week. And for him, that meant leafing through the latest math papers from OpenAI about topics such as the Reiman hypothesis. Oh my Lord, he thought, I was absolutely floored. Good rhyming. Urschel was blown away by the findings because he happened to understand the hundreds of proofs better than nearly any human on the planet. Nine years ago, he traded the National Football League for the, uh, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Crazy that you can take, like the NFL has got to be an incredibly demanding schedule.

• 17:20John Coogan?

  Like you can take thousands of hours off of your like math career and then like go back in the game and not be.

• 17:27Jordi Hays?

  Well, not to mention getting just slammed in the head.

• 17:29John Coogan?

  I know. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. They want you to believe in CTE counter example.

• 17:35Jordi Hays?

  Make it make sense.

• 17:36John Coogan?

  One of one sample counter.

• 17:38Jordi Hays?

  No, he's possible. He's actually the smartest person to have ever walked the earth. So even after getting.

• 17:44John Coogan?

  Yeah. Or, or it could be reverse. You get hit in the head and it like makes you even more of a genius or something.

• 17:49Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. Unstuck something.

• 17:51John Coogan?

  Sort of like a, like a.

• 17:52Jordi Hays?

  What a legend.

• 17:53John Coogan?

  Magical realism.

• 17:55Jordi Hays?

  Tyler, is this going to make you get into watching football?

• 17:58John Coogan?

  Yeah, maybe you should play some.

• 18:00Jordi Hays?

  Future.

• 18:01John Coogan?

  Maybe you should play some full contact tackle football. Might make you better at math. You never know. Urschel was blown away by the discoveries and Monday, instead of studying abstract play designs, he was publishing some impenetrable language of his own to prove a decades old math conjecture. Urschel's paper titled On the Growth of, On the Growth Factor of Random matrices is one of a deluge of AI assisted proofs that mathematicians have achieved in this new era when they can combine their genius with supercomputing power. But within this community of brainiacs, there isn't a single person quite like the 35 year old Urschel. After three years with the Baltimore Ravens, the offensive lineman, who is listed at six

• 18:45John Coogan?

  foot three, 313 pounds, ditched his helmet and became a professional egghead in 2017. He hasn't regretted it for a moment. He says, I feel like I bet on myself in a big way. I'm living my best life right now. You'll love to see it. Long before Urschel became an assistant professor at MIT studying matrices, spectral graph theory and other subjects that sound like gibberish to just about everybody. Shots fired by the journal, uh, but I agree. He was an overachieving kid attending Penn State while playing for the Nittany Lions. He did more than pursue an ambitious major by studying math and win, and he won the prize known as the academic Heisman. By the time the Ravens drafted him in 2014, he already had earned his masters. But a year after protecting Joe Flacco, Urschel started to miss his life crunching numbers.

• 19:31John Coogan?

  While he felt his analytical background was useful to him as a football player, it didn't quite scratch his intellectual itch. That's when he decided to apply to become a doctoral student at MIT, the school he had always dreamed of attending. He began moonlighting there in 2016.

• 19:46Jordi Hays?

  I know, I know what this is all setting up.

• 19:48John Coogan?

  What is this?

• 19:49Jordi Hays?

  He is going to star in the next Terminator movie.

• 19:51John Coogan?

  Ooh.

• 19:51Jordi Hays?

  Football player, math genius, fights back.

• 19:54John Coogan?

  Triple threat. Yeah. This is exactly.

• 19:57Jordi Hays?

  Takes on the clankers.

• 19:58John Coogan?

  Yeah, I, I would love to see it.

• 19:59Jordi Hays?

  I mean, you would hate to be a clanker with this, with this guy walking you down.

• 20:04John Coogan?

  For sure. But he seems to be, uh, he seems to be a friend of the clankers because, uh, he has actually been using AI in, to assist him in his research. So his acknowledgements in the paper that he published cites the help of OpenAI models and says that he welcomes any question about the role of AI, which is upending his entire field. Uh, he says, but supercomputers haven't dented the passion that this football player turned mathematician has for math. He compares it to his enjoyment of chess. He also likes chess. Uh, the computers are better than the humans, yet he still enjoys the pursuit of finding the right move. I really want to understand the why of things, Urschel says. It doesn't ruin the why.

• 20:48John Coogan?

  AI doesn't ruin the why. That's a very interesting thing. And I feel like, I mean, just in knowledge retrieval over the past three years, I have felt that like, like I know a lot of obscure factoids about Silicon Valley lore, you know? But when chat GPT came out, I wasn't like, oh no, like the computer knows more about Silicon Valley history than me. They're like, oh no, like the computer knows more about the, you know, the random companies.

• 21:18Jordi Hays?

  You're basically, you're basically one of the top guys in your field.

• 21:23John Coogan?

  I did spend like five years making YouTube documentaries about these companies and like trying to learn a lot and like piecing it all together and like chat GPT can do that but like it's been such a benefit because I I want to know so I'm looking up stuff all the time and I'm like I want to go on the journey I want to gain that information and it gives that to me it's weird.

• 21:42Jordi Hays?

  We benefit from having knowledge and understanding within us.

• 21:45John Coogan?

  Maybe he's like you know what I'm going back to I'm going back to football math is solved going back to football. Creepy Cycles memeing it he says OpenAI we literally solved math uh him says nice one now please use the DoorDash CLI to order me some orange chicken. Speaking of ordering food Starbucks is thinking about buying Chipotle or they thought about buying Chipotle uh the headline is Starbucks has explored taking over Chipotle according to a Financial Times report. This is a scoop in the Financial Times. Let's see they've explored merging the two companies in a mega deal. It would be a $41 billion market value for the burrito chain and it would rank as the largest

• 22:26John Coogan?

  restaurant acquisition of all time. So the world's leading coffee shop chain has worked with advisors in recent months on a takeover proposal for Chipotle which I believe had McDonald's as an anchor investor a long time ago. I don't know how div- how divested they are at this point but it it's interesting to see that they're they're finding another dance partner. A burrito chain with a $41 billion market cap uh the status of Starbucks's takeover plans and whether the company has submitted any formal offers to Chipotle could not be determined. A transformative deal of this size might struggle to get off the ground the people warned and a tie-up may never materialize given the complexity of combining two consumer giants. The early-stage plans would also reunite Brian Nichols Starbucks chief executive with the fast food chain where he made

• 23:10John Coogan?

  his name over six years since as a CEO. So he was he left Chipotle uh August 2024 went over to uh Starbucks from Chipotle. Chipotle has uh lost half of its value in that time. So he was you know performing well there but maybe it's an opportunity to put them together. The combined market cap would be like 102 billion and uh

• 23:30Jordi Hays?

  It's also just what what the you know fast casual had been on a crazy run across the board. So I don't think it was him leaving that that caused the decline but

• 23:40John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:41Jordi Hays?

  he clearly loves the brand.

• 23:42John Coogan?

  Do you

• 23:43Jordi Hays?

  Man, it is so crazy to think about there was a time in my life where I was actually averaging one visit to Chipotle every day.

• 23:51John Coogan?

  Every day.

• 23:52Jordi Hays?

  You know some days I wouldn't go but other days I'd go twice.

• 23:55John Coogan?

  Have you ever daily driven Starbucks?

• 23:56Jordi Hays?

  And now I'm not even averaging once a year.

• 23:58John Coogan?

  Whoa just moved on. What about Starbucks? Have you ever been a Starbucks guy?

• 24:03Jordi Hays?

  Nah so so so bad.

• 24:05John Coogan?

  You don't like Charbucks? That's the whole thing. Uh Starbucks the the coffee is like burnt often or like it's a little bit more towards burnt so they call it Charbucks but it's I think it's because people at the time liked it so that was more popular and then they add so many things on top with like caramel and whipped cream that like you can offset the harshness of the raw black coffee ingredient.

• 24:29Jordi Hays?

  We got mosquitoes on the set.

• 24:31John Coogan?

  Lock in. Get the get the flyswatter.

• 24:34Jordi Hays?

  No.

• 24:35John Coogan?

  Do some damage.

• 24:35Jordi Hays?

  I'm shooting it away.

• 24:36John Coogan?

  Mike Isaac says coworker who clocks in to work carrying a venti whole milk quad latte in a double steak burrito bowl and heads straight to the bathroom. Lots of jokes like that. PepsiCo uh says some really bad things. Joe Eisenall shared PepsiCo CEO we don't feel good about the beverage business.

• 24:59John Coogan?

  PepsiCo CEO we're putting all the urgency to improve sodas. Yeah. Should they add alcohol to the sodas? Topo Chico the sparkling water brand created a alcoholic seltzer. Do you think there should be Pepsi Pepsi Zero Diet Pepsi Pepsi Max Pepsi spiked? What do you think?

• 25:19Jordi Hays?

  I think they should be optimizing for Pepsi Pro Max Ultra.

• 25:22John Coogan?

  Pro Max Ultra. Yeah, it is interesting that uh you know Coca-Cola never did like a rum and Coke. You could just do that if you were trying to just skew Max and get the most number of stock keeping units around.

• 25:36Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 25:36John Coogan?

  I don't know.

• 25:37Jordi Hays?

  They should make a the the Pro Max Ultra should be like a Magnum size

• 25:41John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 25:41Jordi Hays?

  bottle of soda. That's where things are headed.

• 25:44John Coogan?

  OpenAI reports revenues differently than Anthropic and so there was a leak that said OpenAI was at almost 70 billion and then there's another report today that says they're almost at 50 billion and it's very clearly clear that like the numbers are very closely held and then there's a game of telephone happening with investors and LPs and other investors and then by the time things make it to the press it's all over the place and it's sort of shifts and people uh you know true up the numbers to try and create an apples to apples comparison. Uh if you're not following on AWS if you buy an OpenAI model, OpenAI keeps that dollar as revenue, Anthropic gives some of that to to Amazon. They both probably give some to Amazon but Anthropic

• 26:27John Coogan?

  counts the part that they give to Amazon as a cost and so they they have a higher gross revenue number and so making these companies apples to apples. It seems like that's what someone tried to do a little bit but I don't know. It seems like they did it sloppily.

• 26:40Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 26:40John Coogan?

  It seems like they did it sloppily.

• 26:41Jordi Hays?

  Still very unclear and yeah it's unclear why it didn't get corrected faster. But I mean like extremely different uh difficult environment to be operating in because part of the benefit of being a private company is that you I mean one of the biggest benefits. You don't have to be on this constant reporting schedule.

• 27:02John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:02Jordi Hays?

  But at the same time

• 27:03John Coogan?

  You're like moving the public markets.

• 27:05Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, because you're because these companies are at a scale

• 27:08John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:08Jordi Hays?

  where they so much of public market activity is predicated on

• 27:12John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:13Jordi Hays?

  on their metrics.

• 27:14John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:14Jordi Hays?

  You know it's prudent to actually share these numbers at different times but there's also so much I mean all all the different media companies are working in in a perfect world the legacy media would be have a new article every day that just had all the updated numbers. Like what was you know they would they would love to publish

• 27:32John Coogan?

  Maybe like a quarterly report.

• 27:33Jordi Hays?

  Here was yesterday's revenue.

• 27:34John Coogan?

  Go on a website like Edgar online. You could call it Edgar online and and file it with the SEC. There could be a there could be a whole commission around securities and exchanging securities. I mean Sam Sam's been talking a lot about IPO stuff. He what was his what was his take with Vanity Fair? He had something about IPO timeline like he'll do it when he needs to do it whatever. The interesting thing is that I I do feel like IPO-ing is is aligned with like better corporate governance getting uh you know distributing the gains like yes like actually get the stocks of all the labs into the retirement accounts. That was very controversial with SpaceX when SpaceX went out.

• 28:16John Coogan?

  People were like I don't want it in my 401k. Um but there is a scenario. Of course it's like cap weighted so you don't need to actually or float weighted so you don't actually need to worry about it like blowing up your retirement account but um there's a there's a good case for like okay if this really is really if like the bull case is true like yeah distribute the gains through everyone's investment accounts getting slices of it just immediately because that's the way things diffuse through the public markets because everyone owns ETFs. Everyone has has some some money invested in the market. It becomes much easier than like the small group of insiders. There was this rumor that we were digging into which which is like is someone trying to manipulate

• 28:55John Coogan?

  the market? Uh because if you leaked a number about a private company normally that wouldn't move the market because everyone's like oh who cares if like some tiny company like is you know doing okay on revenue like if I like if we leak that like Lucy's doing a real oh we're gonna blow out revenue this year.

• 29:14Jordi Hays?

  There was no point there was no point even look at look at one of the greatest companies Silicon Valley's ever produced Stripe. There was no point where if Stripe if it leaked that Stripe had like missed their numbers for a quarter that like you would see

• 29:26John Coogan?

  Like Visa spike.

• 29:27Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 29:28John Coogan?

  Or Mastercard spike. Yeah, it wasn't really moving the market in that way. Completely different with OpenAI and Anthropic like uh SpaceX, Oracle, SoftBank like there are plenty of public company proxies and so it would be tempting if the SEC didn't exist to uh to go and leak a number that's better than what's true and then sort of uh buy the rumor, sell the news. So you would you would buy and then leak a really high number that's just a rumor to the press uh and then when the real number comes out you're already short so you're you're catching that on the way down. Uh this would be securities fraud by the way. Um so don't do that. But uh it is a it is a wild uh wild wild thing that we haven't seen before because manipulating public stocks with private

• 30:13John Coogan?

  company information just hasn't been viable in size before maybe very, very tiny here and there. Um but uh there are some cases out there that make it very, very clear. Sean Frank is vague posting. We'll let you try and figure out who he's talking about. I have a friend, young, 30, nine-figure exit. I've known him for years. Before he made it, before he knew what he was going to start, the one thing he always had, an unwavering belief that it was gonna work out. He was willing to burn the boats over and over, always doubling down, always moving bigger and bigger. It's changed the way I want to operate. If you want to change your life, do it. If you want to win, then win.

• 30:54John Coogan?

  Don't let anything stop you. The only thing you have control over is your attitude and effort. I love some mindset posting.

• 31:01Jordi Hays?

  Fire me up.

• 31:01John Coogan?

  Got the thousand like bagger on the Sean Frank post. He's locked in and he's encouraging you to lock in.

• 31:09Jordi Hays?

  We're off tomorrow. We're headed into a uh a long weekend as well. When we're back, there will only be 1700 hours.

• 31:16John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 31:17Jordi Hays?

  Until Christmas. Hard to believe.

• 31:19John Coogan?

  Flying by.

• 31:20Jordi Hays?

  Just flying by.

• 31:21John Coogan?

  It's flying by. Yeah. Uh leave us five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Sign up for our newsletter at tbpn.com and we will see you on Monday 11am Pacific. Have a great weekend.

• 31:35Jordi Hays?

  We love you.

• 31:35John Coogan?

  Goodbye. Smoke grenade tonight. Okay, goodbye.