AI Safety Timeline Takeover, Bending Spoons Acquires Miro, iPhone Duo Reactions | Diet TBPN

Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after. Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. TBPN is made possible by: Ramp - https://ramp.com Public - https://public.com Cisco - https://www.cisco.com Console - https://www.console.com CrowdStrike - https://www.crowdstrike.com Figma - https://www.figma.com MongoDB - https://www.mongodb.com NYSE - https://www.nyse.com Railway - https://railway.com Shopify - https://www.shopify.com/ Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Jordi Hays?

  Hundred and five days.

• 0:03John Coogan?

  Hundred and five days till Christmas. Get ready. Should we do a little bit of a news roundup? We have Y Combinator Demo Day going on today. We got Gary Tang coming on the show, 11:25. Then we're going back to back with five different startups that are in this YC batch, doing everything from humanoid robots to satellites to AI agents and credit cards, fintech. We're going all over the place, giving you a tour of what's going on in the startup world, which I personally enjoy because it's a good way to sort of ground yourself in what's happening in the, at the early stage. There's so much discussion about what's going on among the big labs and Apple, obviously, in the news yesterday. It can be all encompassing.

• 0:47John Coogan?

  But the big, the big story-

• 0:49Jordi Hays?

  It's time to talk to the future.

• 0:51John Coogan?

  Talk to the future, the next generation.

• 0:52Jordi Hays?

  No, that's really what it gives you a little bit of insight into what things are going to look like in a decade. Some people don't think we're going to be here in a decade.

• 1:00John Coogan?

  They don't. They don't. Coxson's one of them.

• 1:02Jordi Hays?

  Never black pill. I saw a good post this morning. Josha Box-

• 1:07John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07Jordi Hays?

  If you think AI will lead to human extinction by 2030, I will take that bet. If we are still alive by December 31st, 2030, you pay me 1 million USD. If not, I will pay you 10 million USD.

• 1:21John Coogan?

  That's a good, good, good-

• 1:23Jordi Hays?

  Take it. Yeah. There's a lot of people out there that should take the bet, I think.

• 1:27John Coogan?

  Why? There's no, I mean, that's the whole joke.

• 1:31Jordi Hays?

  No, I know.

• 1:32John Coogan?

  Yeah. I mean, with a lot of these, the arguments break down, a lot of things break down. It's also just so difficult to, to put a P doom over time because you, because you have to time bound it because, you know, general scientists will say humanity will go extinct eventually. The default number is 10 to the 100 years. That's a Google years from now. It's heat death of the universe. The stars collapse.

• 1:58Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 1:58John Coogan?

  Even in a billion years, we're going to be in trouble because the sun will be larger than the earth, will have expanded to become encompassing the earth. So you got to get off earth in the next billion years. We're working on that with SpaceX. Elon occasionally delayed. I think he's going to make it before the next billion years. The AI thing, obviously, much more pressing, all sorts of hacks and agentic capabilities, lots of debate going on and a wall-to-wall press tour from a lot of the safety community. Daniel from AI 2027 was on Joe Rogan. It was an interesting listen. He makes a lot of good points. He breaks things down for a broader audience and then Rogan will take him in these very funny directions,

• 2:39John Coogan?

  just being like, yeah, these AI agents are crazy. Let's talk about UFOs. It's actually like the meme. They're like, oh yeah, like, have you heard about remote viewing? And, and he breaks down remote viewing for him and Daniel has to be like, I'm a little more skeptical of that, but I'm a real believer in X risk. And so I think the net effect is going to be more awareness about the topic, more discussion about the topic. It might just wind up muddling it because people now put X risk in the aliens, UFOs, remote viewing camp. It's like, oh, it's like a fun thing that Joe Rogan talks about. It's like, becomes more abstract as opposed to being more concrete, but I don't really know. We'll see. What did AI 2027 predict

• 3:20John Coogan?

  for September of 2026? He said, this is the stage where AI becomes economically disruptive and starts accelerating AI research itself. We got the second part. The labs are all saying we have an automated AI research intern-

• 3:33Jordi Hays?

  Just an intern.

• 3:34John Coogan?

  Intern?

• 3:35Jordi Hays?

  Just an intern.

• 3:36John Coogan?

  Yeah, but that's accelerating and the models seem to be getting better at a faster clip. The economically disruptive is the, is the capability. Jobs. Junior software engineering faces major disruption. People managing and checking AI teams prosper. So junior software engineering, major disruption. We'll see. We'll see if, if, if that plays out this month. The job market has been pretty strong. We, we mapped that there's something like 17,000 monthly AI related job losses, but that, that's less than 1% of the 1.7 million jobs that are lost every month. But then of course, there are more than 1.7 million new jobs and new hires because people change jobs a lot. And so that's often what's going

• 4:20John Coogan?

  on. Markets and politics. The scenario forecasts a 30% stock market rise during 2026 and a 10,000 person anti-AI protest and growing defense contracts. That seems-

• 4:30Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, it feels notable that we haven't, we haven't had a protest.

• 4:34John Coogan?

  There's been a protest. There was a protest in San Francisco, a safety-led protest.

• 4:38Jordi Hays?

  It was not nearly 10,000 people.

• 4:40John Coogan?

  It was like more like under 100, but dozens. But yeah, I mean, it seems like the Joe Rogan experience, the, the national news tour. If you're going to get 10,000 people in the streets, like, this is, this is a key step in the, in the chain.

• 4:55Jordi Hays?

  Well, Sheryl Crow was over on Instagram highlighting-

• 4:57John Coogan?

  Yeah, she's worried.

• 4:59Jordi Hays?

  AI risk and someone was saying, Sherry O'Terry, is that, is that a celebrity or something? Says, take to the streets like they did in Albania, all of us. So we can't be ignored. So there's, I guess, calls for protests.

• 5:13John Coogan?

  Yeah. And there was another, there was another risk incident reported by the New York Times today. Anthropic says it blocked possible efforts to build biological weapons in a new report. The AI startup added that it could not determine if the research was legitimate or nefarious, leading the company to shut down the work. So some scientists were using an anthropic model to work on biological research and the anthropic team flagged it as, hey, this could be in the, in the line of a bioweapon. We don't know that that's what this person was trying to do, but we're going to shut it down because of course, a lot of the research that goes into building a nuclear power plant is the same that goes into a nuclear bomb. And same thing, these are a lot of dual-use technologies.

• 5:52John Coogan?

  Anyway, anything else to say about Jacob Coxson, who I think will have much more news? He went on Fox and Anderson Cooper, CNN, and I'm sure there will be a much deeper dive at some point. It feels like there's going to be a, it is interesting that with the launch of the Post and the Wall Street Journal article, there was not a one-hour, three-hour podcast. Like, we didn't get our situational awareness. Like, I want the five-hour sit-down with somebody.

• 6:19Jordi Hays?

  Based on the, based on the interviews, it doesn't really feel like he's got an hour of content.

• 6:25John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 6:25Jordi Hays?

  Maybe he, maybe he does.

• 6:27John Coogan?

  But it's the best, because you can just tell the story of the Terminator for an hour and like take someone on that journey. And that can actually be in service of updating people about X risk. You can, you can, you can tell the full story of how you think things might play out. There's so many different scenarios that are the bad ending worth avoiding. You can illustrate that. I don't know. Yeah.

• 6:47Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, I thought it was, um-

• 6:48John Coogan?

  I think it's coming. I think it's coming. Refresh your podcast player in a week.

• 6:52Jordi Hays?

  Let's pull up this clip. This is from Fox News last night.

• 6:55Speaker 02

  They think their industry needs to be regulated as soon as possible.

• 6:59Speaker 03

  Do you work with any third parties as far as this whistleblowing and coming out?

• 7:06Speaker 02

  Not at all. This is entirely my own personal concerns about safety and things that I've seen personally and conversations I've had. Be serious that they think their industry-

• 7:14John Coogan?

  See, a lot of people are keying on to the background here. They're like, wait, this guy just-

• 7:19Jordi Hays?

  He quit yesterday.

• 7:20John Coogan?

  And he already has a podcast studio. People are like, is that someone else's podcast studio? And so I looked at the image, tried to figure out whose podcast studio he's in. It's Caller Daddy.

• 7:29Jordi Hays?

  Boom.

• 7:29John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 7:29Jordi Hays?

  This goes way deeper.

• 7:32Speaker 04

  Welcome to Caller Daddy. I have been so excited to meet, I can't believe we've never really met.

• 7:38Speaker 02

  Surprise. There's a chance we could all die. Like, that, that is coming soon.

• 7:41Speaker 04

  Thank you for spending the time with me.

• 7:43Jordi Hays?

  I do expect it at some point as they dig in here, based on how much-

• 7:48John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 7:49Jordi Hays?

  Sort of, it seems like there's very much a significant push-

• 7:53John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 7:54Jordi Hays?

  From the overarching AI safety community-

• 7:57John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 7:58Jordi Hays?

  To make this week all about-

• 8:00John Coogan?

  Yeah. He clarified this a little bit on, on Anderson Cooper, saying that he like worked with a bunch of friends and where's the line between like friends and professional? Like, you know, we're all a big family here. We're all friends. So they're like, the answer could be muddled. I don't know. I'm sure we'll find out more soon. Anyway, you think he's going to launch a Neo Lab? Think he's going to drop a coin? Book? Movie? There's going to be something, you know? The story is not over. Story is not over. There's going to be something. Maybe he launches a software as a service company.

• 8:32Jordi Hays?

  It's crazy.

• 8:32John Coogan?

  And then his spoon gets back. Trying to transition here.

• 8:36Jordi Hays?

  No, it's, uh, somebody just said, Sebastian says he's a D cell with a crazy P doom. That's a quote from Mountain Head.

• 8:42John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 8:43Jordi Hays?

  Remember? Which is now out maybe a year or- A year ago.

• 8:46John Coogan?

  I remember you watched it.

• 8:47Jordi Hays?

  Which is, um, yeah.

• 8:48John Coogan?

  Yeah. But that was a, that was sort of a niche film. It didn't, it didn't go as big as I.

• 8:53Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, I didn't think it was a good film, but it had some funny moments.

• 8:57John Coogan?

  And it, and it was about like an AI apocalypse, right? They go to like a.

• 9:00Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was around all about.

• 9:02John Coogan?

  They go to a bunkie.

• 9:03Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 9:03John Coogan?

  Is there a bunkie?

• 9:03Jordi Hays?

  There's a bunkie.

• 9:04John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 9:04Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 9:05John Coogan?

  Okay. Maybe I got a mountain head now.

• 9:06Jordi Hays?

  It's all about the, the doom scenario was around deep fakes.

• 9:09John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:10Jordi Hays?

  Humanity thinking that there was like.

• 9:12John Coogan?

  Something crazy going on.

• 9:13Jordi Hays?

  Conflicts happening, which would create actual wars.

• 9:15John Coogan?

  I, I, I, I don't know that I'm super like worried about that particular scenario, but you could take me on that journey for 20 minutes and a long winded answer on a.

• 9:25Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 9:25John Coogan?

  Podcast and I would be, I would be entertained. I think that, I think that there is material there. And I did see genuinely a lot of, uh, like sort of AI safety skeptics just asking for more storytelling around how things go bad. Uh, it's so easy to condense a P doom down to a single number, but I think people like stories. They want something that actually illustrates the chain of events that lead to the bad scenario as opposed to these vague things where it's like, I have a lot of authority. I have a lot of insight and 5% or 20%. That, that obviously, I mean, it does go viral, but, uh, clearly there were people that had demand for more of a story that they could track and they could, and they could falsify individual. Uh, Keith Raboy yesterday was, was, was struggling with this where it was like,

• 10:10John Coogan?

  it's hard to falsify someone saying 10% in the next 10 years. But it's, it was easier to falsify about like, well, the, the, the nuclear weapons will be fired at this time, and this is what's going to happen. And this is how they get.

• 10:21Jordi Hays?

  Also the, the job loss stuff.

• 10:23John Coogan?

  Totally, totally. Anyway, we'll do a quick roundup of the rest of the news. Um, should we talk about Nvidia? Should we talk about bending spoons? What's interesting to you, Jordy?

• 10:34Jordi Hays?

  Let's start with bending spoons. Bending spoons acquires Miro for 1.79 billion.

• 10:42John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 10:42Jordi Hays?

  Paul Bonnet over a GP over 20 VC. Uh, says, but who gets the money? My usual breakdown. Uh, so this is 89% below the last round and at, uh, less than, less than three times.

• 10:57John Coogan?

  Whoa, Miro was valued at 17 and a half billion dollars.

• 11:00Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 11:00John Coogan?

  That's really high. Wow.

• 11:02Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. So, um, anyways, I, you know, we actually don't need to dive through all this stuff. A lot, you know, investors are getting.

• 11:09John Coogan?

  Yes, but, but I am interested in the bending spoon strategy because Airtable, Miro, Miro felt like, felt like modern collaborative slides and like mood boards. And then Airtable felt like the modern, you know, Excel sheet. And it feels like they're trying to maybe piece together a bundle, but I don't know if that's actually how Benny Spoon thinks about this. It feels like in the past, they've been very interested in just, it's a known brand with a strong business that they can run efficiently and it stands alone. But for the first time, I'm seeing glimpses of something that could be like a portfolio or a roll up where if you have Airtable, you get Miro for free or vice versa. And there's cross selling options because if you like these more modern tools like an,

• 11:51John Coogan?

  like a Miro, like an Airtable, uh, I've seen both of these deployed in the same startup. And the startup, there's always this tension between, hey, we're paying 20 bucks a seat for this, 20 bucks a seat for that, or we could just do 15 bucks for Google and we get all of them. So you actually wind up with a, the portfolio and I, I don't know. Maybe the sum is greater than its parts. What do you think?

• 12:11Jordi Hays?

  Potentially, but, but yeah, it was very, it's just insane to me that this was a, a 17 billion dollar company, uh, just, just a little bit ago. And ultimately this is why I have a lot of fear around like some of these like later stage or even like later stage rounds that are happening right now. Because they're clearly, there's certain teams that are fantastic. Great categories, great, on the path to being great businesses. And yet many of them feel so far from being on that path to being priced at a hundred or trillion or, or whatever the number is. And we're going to see this exact same thing play out right now where there's companies that are around this valuation now that, that three years from now will sell at a 90% discount.

• 12:56John Coogan?

  Yeah. I'd be interested to see if like, have the metrics at Miro changed in the age of AI? Because you could imagine that people, if they need a collaborative mood board or slide deck, they can vibe code their own tool, but it's still a little bit of a hassle to deploy that and maintain it, even if you can clone it. So SaaS apocalypse fully aver, fully averted by the sales forces of the world. And the revenue decline never showed up in the SaaS companies. And so the SaaS apocalypse was, was, was canceled. But was there a micro SaaS apocalypse that did show up at this level? And that's why we're seeing these deals? I don't know. Uh, do you think this is all just like a promotion for David Senna's new episode with Luca Ferrari?

• 13:42John Coogan?

  Cause David Senna's perfect timing. I have an episode with Luca Ferrari coming out this Sunday.

• 13:48John Coogan?

  It's just like, thank you.

• 13:50Jordi Hays?

  Thank you for lining up this deal with you coming on my podcast.

• 13:53John Coogan?

  Promise.

• 13:54Jordi Hays?

  No, uh, Jason says, uh, three X paying three X ARR at 600 million of ARR, over 750 customers paying over a hundred thousand dollars a year. Cash flow positive, man. But Jamie Quint says multiple years of 5% ARR growth will do that.

• 14:11John Coogan?

  Yeah. If you're not, if you're not accelerating, I mean, the, the entire multiple is based on growth. So there's not going to be a, you know, a significant acceleration.

• 14:18Jordi Hays?

  You gotta be growing.

• 14:20John Coogan?

  Yeah, it's true. Uh, so.

• 14:21Jordi Hays?

  Uh, another neck acquisition news.

• 14:24John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 14:24Jordi Hays?

  I think we got a card out, but Tailwind, uh, got acquired by Shopify. Uh, that's very cool. Remember, uh, if you remember, I think Tailwind.

• 14:32John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 14:33Jordi Hays?

  Was, uh, accelerating AI software development, but wasn't directly a beneficiary.

• 14:39John Coogan?

  And didn't they get like sort of?

• 14:41Jordi Hays?

  A bunch of people in the industry, I think.

• 14:43John Coogan?

  I think Google, right? Wasn't Logan?

• 14:45Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 14:45John Coogan?

  I think Logan was like. I am going to provide a grant to keep these guys going. I thought that was awesome. That was like such a cool community moment. Um, and interesting that they're, they now like found a proper landing spot.

• 14:57Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 14:58John Coogan?

  Which is cool. Uh, yeah, very optimistic scenario.

• 15:01Jordi Hays?

  Uh, we, we had a little bit of iPhone Duo coverage yesterday.

• 15:05John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 15:05Jordi Hays?

  We didn't see the crease.

• 15:06John Coogan?

  We had a key question in the chat from Saly Analysis. They asked, what do you guys think about the crease? I couldn't see it in any of those Apple renders. And they, Apple seemed to get really good with the lighting placement to not show up the crease. True, my accurate take, I don't care about this. That is not enough of a crease. Do matter at all.

• 15:26Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 15:27John Coogan?

  Especially if this is a mode where you're, uh, using two apps. You don't care about the middle at all. I have seen guys on football days off four TVs next to each other with full bezels. Like you can see the line going down the center of the, and they just don't care. So like, this is not a big deal. Uh, now the interesting thing is like, will it be an issue if you're like watching a movie on this thing on a plane? I think maybe, but I think the crease will probably completely disappear when you're actually locked in on a, on a film. But I think the bigger thing is the aspect ratio is kind of weird for modern content because we have films, which are widescreen and YouTube videos, which are 16 by nine.

• 16:10John Coogan?

  And those will show black bars that's at the top and the bottom. Or you could zoom in and then you're cropping the sides. Not a great experience. Some of the demos, some of the demo video that Apple showed was super cool because it was shot in this like four, three. So maybe you go back and you get some four, three content from like the seventies and eighties. And that displays really well because you don't need to do the, the, the panel scan thing anymore. But, um, and then the vertical content will also look like bars on the side, like you're on an iPad. So I wonder if that will be annoying. It'll probably melt into the background. I think people will still like it. I'm very interested in the mix. Like what percent, uh, like, will this be as popular as the iPhone Pro has been relative to the iPhone?

• 16:53John Coogan?

  Will this be 10% of overall phone sales from this cycle? Will it be 1% or 30%? It's the, the fact that it's different, the fact that it's a way to stand out. It's their most foldable phone ever.

• 17:07Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. This was a, this was a comment from.

• 17:09John Coogan?

  Thank you to the listener.

• 17:10Jordi Hays?

  prolific, uh, Spotify.

• 17:13John Coogan?

  On Spotify.

• 17:14Jordi Hays?

  Uh, comedian, Dave, he commented yesterday, it's their most foldable iPhone yet.

• 17:19John Coogan?

  It is.

• 17:20Jordi Hays?

  And it really is. So really it's like when they introduced the iPhone Duo two, which will.

• 17:26John Coogan?

  Quattro?

• 17:27Jordi Hays?

  I think they're going to have to, to multiply them and, and get the iPhone Quattro.

• 17:31John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 17:32Jordi Hays?

  Then they'll say it's our most foldable iPhone yet. It has four.

• 17:36John Coogan?

  Until it's just a full accordion, like a fan that just fans out its screens.

• 17:40Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, that the fan, the iPhone fan.

• 17:42John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 17:43Jordi Hays?

  It's just like this, you know?

• 17:44John Coogan?

  Yeah. 20 different folds. Um, what was funny is I'm going to put you on blast here a little bit as you come in and you're like, yeah, like this just makes me want, uh, an iPhone 18 Pro. And you were laying it out and you were like, it's their best iPhone at yet. They, it's just a great phone. They, they made it thinner, lighter, faster, better battery life. And I was like, this is your joke. You fell for your own joke. But it is sort of like this, it could be for some people, like an anti halo phone. For some people, it's going to be the halo where they're like, I wanted something different. I want something bigger. I want the best thing. I got that. For other people, they're going to be like, oh, thank God, I don't have to deal with the, with the foldable thing. Just give me the cheaper, you know, $2,000 iPhone Pro Max 18 plus, you know, all these crazy things.

• 18:26Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. Blake Scholl.

• 18:28John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:28Jordi Hays?

  Jumped in and said, when Steve Jobs introduced the iPad, he went to great care to explain why such a product category should exist to begin with. Apple seems to have made a pretty great version of a foldable phone without saying why foldable phones deserve to exist. I think it would be somewhat uncomfortable for them to explain why exactly you, you need a bigger screen. It's like, hey, you know, we know some of you guys are spending hours and hours and hours a day.

• 18:52John Coogan?

  This is such a. Okay, continue. Just finish or give me a second.

• 18:56Jordi Hays?

  No, why don't you jump in, John?

• 18:58John Coogan?

  I just think that there is, there's cool stuff to do on your phone that is actually less brain rotty when you're on a bigger screen.

• 19:06Jordi Hays?

  Like games on your phone, like which you would from times to time, from time to

• 19:10John Coogan?

  I would never watch Lawrence of Arabia on this screen, but you give me a screen with twice as much real estate, I'm going Lawrence of Arabia, I'm going Citizen Kane.

• 19:18Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, no, and, and, and, and I, I agree that that is the use case.

• 19:23John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 19:23Jordi Hays?

  But I think it's somewhat uncomfortable because of the overarching sort of discussion around phone addiction and screen time and all this stuff.

• 19:30John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 19:31Jordi Hays?

  It's bad for kids, it's probably not great for adults. And for Apple to come out, it's like, you know, we know that you're spending hours and hours every day, you know, getting mindless entertainment from our devices. And so we get, we get, we're giving you a bigger screen.

• 19:44John Coogan?

  I, I don't think Apple needs to touch that. I think that like the things that they promote on their phone are good. Like you can answer your emails, you can connect with your friends, you can text them, you can watch educational videos. There's a positive flip to everything that's like a negative example. Yeah, there's some game that's brain rotty, but there's also some game that's really fun that you remember. You talk about Rust and Halo, like these are, these are core memories for a lot of people. It's a positive thing.

• 20:11Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 20:11John Coogan?

  So being able to do more of that, plus it's just like, you don't know when you're, it's very hard to plan ahead for like, oh, I'm going to get caught with an extra hour waiting at the DMV or I'm going to wait a plane or I'm going to have some downtime and I'm going to want to actually like enjoy something more thoroughly. If you have the duo, it's your daily driver, it's always on you. You didn't need to think, oh, I should break an iPad because I'm going to be stuck waiting this line for 20 minutes. So I want to watch something nicely on a really big screen. You got the duo in your pocket, you're good to go.

• 20:42Jordi Hays?

  I'm not sold.

• 20:43John Coogan?

  Get me a sales job.

• 20:44Jordi Hays?

  But get, get this guy a job at the Apple store.

• 20:48John Coogan?

  Tennis, tennis, tennis. There was a match that ended at 3:30 AM. And people are not happy about it. The, the Wall Street Journal's headline is, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. There's nothing cool about a tennis match that finishes at 3:30, 3 AM. It's ridiculous. Sorry, but tennis at 3:30, 3 AM isn't cool. It's ridiculous. What, what happened? Bill Ackman loved it. He said, one of the greatest tennis matches ever, and very few got to see it live. This needs to be fixed now. It's unfair to the players, fans and sponsors in the sports. What is the actual proposal? What do they want to change? Start the game earlier or cut it off entirely if it keeps going?

• 21:33Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, so I'm, I'm trying to figure out why, why this ever was, is or was a thing. I, hopefully the journal article can, can break it down, but I watched a little bit of this game.

• 21:44John Coogan?

  You did?

• 21:44Jordi Hays?

  I went to bed. Yeah, I think I went, went to bed. It was actually a later night, I went to bed around 11. But the game was going well past three.

• 21:55John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 21:55Jordi Hays?

  Ben Shelton, who actually won the match, it was an upset, was hitting 146 mile an hour serves at, at, at Carlos. Carlos at one point was shooing off the, the, the camera crew because they were filming him and he was throwing like actively like going to throw up. He, he was like pushing it so hard that he was going to throw up into, into a towel. So really, really crazy. Wall Street Journal says, sometimes this glorious sport can't get out of its own way. Everyone is expected to pretend night tennis is a fabulous experience. We're supposed to deploy the word epic and act like we didn't brush our teeth and hit the hay after Shelton took the second set. I do actually have a family member that did exactly that, like blow out second set.

• 22:39Jordi Hays?

  They were like, all right, like.

• 22:41John Coogan?

  We're good.

• 22:41Jordi Hays?

  We're good. And it ended up being this incredible game. The US Open has long cultivated the idea that the wee hours are part of its identity as much of, as much a part of the formula as the $23 honeydewce cocktails and the plume of cannabis smoke wafting in from a nearby park. Even ESPN feigns enthusiasm for the opera midnight when it would never schedule a tent pole like the Iron Bowl for such an uncommon hour. It's a city that never sleeps. Why should tennis? Okay, how many 3:30 AM finishes have you attended at Yankee Stadium? I appreciate the romance. New York remains a restless town where you can get a steak dinner and a tattoo on your back long after quitting time. The subway is 24/7 theater. You can crawl out of a bar at dawn.

• 23:24Jordi Hays?

  There are amateur bike races that start in the dark at 5:45 AM. It's zany, but Alcaraz versus Shelton isn't a corned beef sandwich at an all night diner. This sounds like AI slop. It's a marquee showcase for a sport.

• 23:40John Coogan?

  I, I, I've been reading this and I think, I think it's just like fun turns.

• 23:43Jordi Hays?

  No, it's, no, it's, it's good. It's a marquee showcase for a sport that needs every bit of US attention it can get, and it got buried like a Tom Snyder sit down with Buddy Hackett. Even people in Hawaii were like, this Alcaraz Shelton match is running pretty late. This isn't a routine to celebrate. Okay, I'm sorry. A lot of, a lot of, a lot of, we're going to have to run this through Pangram.

• 24:05John Coogan?

  Parallelism.

• 24:06Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, this isn't a routine to celebrate. This is when someone needs to step in and scream, what are we doing?

• 24:12John Coogan?

  You know, I found two new AI phrases. I don't remember both of them. One of them is, in our increasingly online world, when someone's writing about online culture or something that happened on the internet or like with the boom of social media, like there's two phrases that were popularized because journalists who needed to write about things that happened online kept using this phrase. That got baked into the LLM and then now it's getting spit back at people. And so a lot of people are turning away from the phrase in our increasingly online world. So avoid that one too, I guess.

• 24:50Jordi Hays?

  Sash Shane says nighttime, you wouldn't understand that. It's a New York thing. Yeah, it's funny because I feel like you can maintain the, the mystique of the, the US Open by just having games wrap up around midnight. It's still very much nighttime.

• 25:05John Coogan?

  Totally.

• 25:05Jordi Hays?

  Like it's dark out, you know? People, people are sleeping. Anyways, definitely seems just incredibly rough and unfair to the, to the players. This has happened in, in UFC a few times where the, the, in order to hit a US time zone for the pay-per-view, the actual fighters have to be fighting at the equivalent of like 6 AM.

• 25:30John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah, internationally, yeah.

• 25:31Jordi Hays?

  Which is just, imagine waking, imagine one going to sleep at like 10, knowing that you have to wake up and get in a death match at 6 AM. Sounds pretty rough. The alternative is just to stay up and like, you know?

• 25:45John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 25:45Jordi Hays?

  Just try to, try to, try to be ready.

• 25:47John Coogan?

  Because it starts at 6, so you gotta.

• 25:49Jordi Hays?

  Your fight, like the whole event is starting at probably midnight, but then.

• 25:53John Coogan?

  I guess the move would probably be just don't adjust for jet lag, like get there on your schedule and just treat it like it's a 6 PM fight for whatever your local time zone is, I suppose. I don't know. What do you think about this? Chairman Burb Bernanke, you can eat the same thing for breakfast every single day for like 20 years in a row and no one will say anything. It's normal. You eat the same thing for dinner for a month straight and people call you psychotic. Think it's fine to eat the same dinner every night for a month?

• 26:22Jordi Hays?

  What's wrong with being a psycho?

• 26:24John Coogan?

  A psycho.

• 26:24Jordi Hays?

  I used to, I used to do chicken and rice.

• 26:27John Coogan?

  Chicken and rice.

• 26:28Jordi Hays?

  Every night.

• 26:28John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 26:29Jordi Hays?

  For months, for years.

• 26:30John Coogan?

  Leave us five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Sign up for our newsletter, tbpn.com and we will see you tomorrow at 11 AM Pacific sharp.

• 26:39Jordi Hays?

  We love you.

• 26:40John Coogan?

  Goodbye.

• 26:42John Coogan?

  Have a great rest of your day.

• 26:43Jordi Hays?

  Have the best Thursday afternoon of your entire life.

• 26:46John Coogan?

  Goodbye.