Meta Settles Addiction Suits, Tim Cook Signs Off After 15 Years, OpenAI’s Jalapeño Chip | Diet TBPN

Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after. Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. TBPN is made possible by: Ramp - https://ramp.com Public - https://public.com Cisco - https://www.cisco.com Console - https://www.console.com CrowdStrike - https://www.crowdstrike.com Figma - https://www.figma.com MongoDB - https://www.mongodb.com NYSE - https://www.nyse.com Railway - https://railway.com Shopify - https://www.shopify.com/ Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01John Coogan?

  We are back.

• 0:03Jordi Hays?

  We missed you.

• 0:03John Coogan?

  Two weeks is a crazy amount of time to be away.

• 0:06Jordi Hays?

  I don't understand how children do this for weeks or months at a time.

• 0:12John Coogan?

  It's wild. It's wild.

• 0:13Jordi Hays?

  It's crazy.

• 0:13John Coogan?

  There's a lot of video games.

• 0:14Jordi Hays?

  I was sitting there. I had somebody this morning say, it feels like it must have gone by so fast. And I was thinking, no, it absolutely didn't go by fast at all. It felt like, it felt like two months.

• 0:26John Coogan?

  Yeah, it did feel like two months.

• 0:27Jordi Hays?

  We manipulated time.

• 0:28John Coogan?

  Yeah, but thank you to the Microsoft team, the Activision team. They sent us codes for Modern Warfare 4. My review is in. It's fantastic. I love it. It's a really good game. Really polished. And the Kill Block.

• 0:41Jordi Hays?

  Did you revert back at all to?

• 0:44John Coogan?

  Didn't really have the opportunity. I was joking about full relapse, just gaming from dusk till dawn. But that is in fact not in the cards these days.

• 0:54Jordi Hays?

  Pizza. I was eating pizza like twice a day at times. Eating a lot of pizza, surfing a lot.

• 1:01John Coogan?

  That's good. Do you think pizza is potentially addictive?

• 1:03Jordi Hays?

  I do.

• 1:04John Coogan?

  You think that there could be a settlement?

• 1:06Jordi Hays?

  I do think, I don't think there could. I think there should.

• 1:09John Coogan?

  There should be. I do wonder, like, because cigarettes, it was very, cigarettes were very scientifically proven to be addictive. Like, you can give nicotine to a mouse and it will like go and try and get more nicotine. Like, it's the most cut and dry. You can run the experiment with, you know, any animal, any creature in the blood.

• 1:29Jordi Hays?

  Based on my own personal experience, pizza and surfing would fall into that same bucket.

• 1:33John Coogan?

  Oh, you give a mouse pizza?

• 1:34Jordi Hays?

  Get barreled.

• 1:35John Coogan?

  Yeah. If you give a mouse a cookie.

• 1:37Jordi Hays?

  You should give a mouse a barrel.

• 1:38John Coogan?

  A barrel.

• 1:39Jordi Hays?

  Get spit out of that thing.

• 1:40John Coogan?

  He was gonna want a Corona with a lime. Yeah, for sure. But it will be interesting to see where the addiction stuff goes because when, when all this came up, you know, the meta social media addiction, I was kind of like.

• 1:54Jordi Hays?

  Give a mouse a scroll.

• 1:55John Coogan?

  Like, I understand that people were trying to, I don't know, can you get mice or monkeys addicted to reels? Maybe.

• 2:04Jordi Hays?

  I'm sure, almost certainly.

• 2:06John Coogan?

  You think you could get a monkey addicted to Instagram reels?

• 2:09Jordi Hays?

  I think 100%.

• 2:11John Coogan?

  Well, we gotta try.

• 2:12Jordi Hays?

  100%.

• 2:13John Coogan?

  We're gonna find out.

• 2:14Jordi Hays?

  We can't get any monkeys because they're, they're sold out?

• 2:17John Coogan?

  No, no, you can get a monkey. You just have to pay top dollar.

• 2:19Jordi Hays?

  Okay.

• 2:20John Coogan?

  They're expensive, but you can, you can buy one. It did seem like it was a, it was a tougher sell because it was not a chemically addictive product. It was more of a psychological thing. There's a benefit to it. There's a free speech element, all very complicated. I was not expecting to see a big settlement when this first came up years ago. I thought it was going to be more nickel and diming, little case by case things. But in fact, there has been a huge settlement by Meta. Two days ago, or this was when this was written, this was August 26th. Meta announced settlements with attorneys general representing 48 states and the District of Columbia and three US territories. So there were only two states that held back. I believe it's Texas and New Mexico.

• 3:01John Coogan?

  Over allegations that Facebook and Instagram harmed children and teens. So this has been boiling up for a while. There were smaller settlements. This is the big one. And so the high level numbers here, Meta will pay the states $12.7 billion over 10 years. And it could go up to $18 billion if other platforms join the settlement.

• 3:27Jordi Hays?

  It is a big, it's a big number.

• 3:29John Coogan?

  It is a big number. And honestly, if you are a state legislator or you care about having your state funded for a variety of things, this is good news. This is a size gong moment for the states because they will be getting this money distributed to them. And they can use that to do whatever states do from education to healthcare. There's a lot of different things that states can do. I know Tyler's pissed because he doesn't like the government getting a dime, but, but it is a size gong moment for them.

• 3:53Jordi Hays?

  I did find a video of a chimpanzee hitting reels. If we can pull this up.

• 3:56John Coogan?

  Does it look?

• 3:57Jordi Hays?

  Let's pull this up. This is, this is important. This is definitely more important than.

• 4:03John Coogan?

  Ooh, okay. Yeah, this looks, okay, maybe, maybe, maybe social media is addictive now that I'm seeing this. This is, yeah, it might be universal. If it crosses, wow.

• 4:15Jordi Hays?

  Using it so intuitively?

• 4:17John Coogan?

  Yep, yep. I mean, that's just good UI design. Come on. You gotta give the UX engineers some credit here.

• 4:25John Coogan?

  Make it so easy to use that even a monkey could use it. That was the prompt. If it crosses species barriers, I'm much more likely to agree that something could be addictive. But.

• 4:37Jordi Hays?

  Well, and here especially, you know, he's looking at.

• 4:40John Coogan?

  Other monkeys.

• 4:41Jordi Hays?

  Monkeys.

• 4:41John Coogan?

  Okay, that's a little, I don't know. Yeah.

• 4:45Jordi Hays?

  No, I know, but an algo feed, it's gonna naturally start serving a lot of those videos.

• 4:49John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, makes sense. Anyway, everyone has been drawing analogies to the tobacco industry's master settlement agreement around this because that's the last time there was a huge multi-billion, tens of billions of dollars settlement between a large organization around addiction and a bunch of states. That's what's happened when cigarette companies signed the master settlement agreement, all of the companies agreeing to pay all the states. But the structure was a little bit different and there's some nuance there. And so Eric Sufer over at Mobile Dev Memo, friend of the show, he said Meta's settlement is no big tobacco moment. That was his takeaway in Mobile Dev Memo. You should go subscribe because this post is a paid, paid post. But I'll take you through some of the interesting analysis that he put together.

• 5:32John Coogan?

  I was debating with a lawyer friend of mine about this over the weekend and, and have some interesting details here. So the headline here is that what Meta is going to pay as a percentage of revenue or what the social media industry will pay as a percentage of revenue relative to what the tobacco industry paid as a percentage of revenue is off by almost an order of magnitude. So let's put them in context here. So he says Meta's settlement is comparatively paltry. A white paper from the USDA using BLS data estimates that the total US consumer expenditure on tobacco products in 1998, when the master settlement agreement was signed, was roughly $57 billion a year.

• 6:12John Coogan?

  Annualizing the roughly $250 billion in combined tobacco settlement payments over 25 years produces an average of $10 billion per, $10 billion per year is what they've been paying. And so that was equivalent to 17.5% in 1998 domestic expenditure. So you could think about it as like, when tobacco got hit with like, you're addictive, what did the government say you gotta pay? They asked for 17.5%.

• 6:39Jordi Hays?

  Very, very meaningful.

• 6:40John Coogan?

  Very, very meaningful.

• 6:42Jordi Hays?

  And that's, that's off the top, right?

• 6:43John Coogan?

  Yes, yes, this is revenue.

• 6:45Jordi Hays?

  It's, it's not like, hey, you gotta give us a percentage of your profits.

• 6:48John Coogan?

  Yes. And so it's calculated in a more complicated way. It's not exactly a percentage. It's on a per pack sold, but it is inflation adjusted. And so there's a whole bunch of other mechanics that really have, have allowed the master settlement agreement to deliver tens of billions of dollars on an ongoing basis, even while now tobacco sales are slumping, cigarette sales are declining. And so that does create more complex dynamics for the states. But still, it's 17.5% of the industry's revenue coming to states as effectively an extra tax on top, which I think a lot of people would agree is good because cigarettes are bad, right? But what's going on with Meta and social media?

• 7:28John Coogan?

  So given Meta's full year 2025 US revenue of $75 billion roughly, per the company's 10K, its average annual payment, if they pay the full $18 billion, because they're paying that over 10 years, it's $1.8 billion. So what is $1.8 billion of $75 billion? It's 2.4%. So instead of 17.5%.

• 7:48Jordi Hays?

  Sorry, where are you getting the 75 billion?

• 7:51John Coogan?

  75 billion was their US revenue last year.

• 7:53Jordi Hays?

  Oh, US, US. Globally, globally, it was like a couple hundred.

• 7:56John Coogan?

  Yeah, bigger, bigger. But, but you have to comp it to domestic because that's where this is taking effect, right? It would be even lower if you look at overall revenue, which is a good point. But you can think about it as tobacco had to pay 17.5% of domestic revenue. Social media, 2.5% of domestic revenue. So not quite an order of magnitude, but a significant gap, significant gap there. And so it's important to reiterate here, says Eric Sufer over at Mobile Dev Memo, that the MSA payment, the master settlement agreement payment schedule is inflation adjusted and tracks unit sales. Meta's statement settlement has no such mechanism. So let's say that Meta doubles revenue, their percentage they'll pay is lower.

• 8:38John Coogan?

  And then let's say inflation kicks in, they're still gonna be paying, you know, this $1.8 billion a year 10 years from now. Could be, could be pennies if, if hyperinflation happens. Who knows?

• 8:49Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, the only reason it felt somewhat significant from a dollar standpoint is because Meta is just spending so much money on AI, right?

• 8:59John Coogan?

  Oh, interesting.

• 9:00Jordi Hays?

  You can just imagine Zach being like, I really wish I could have given that to Jensen, right?

• 9:05John Coogan?

  So I had the opposite. I had the opposite read, which was I saw $18 billion and I was like, ah, that's like, you know, a month of AI spend for them. And I was like, ah, this is not that much money. And then, of course, it's over 10 years. And so when you think about it as it's, it's $1.8 billion a year, so that's 100 mil a month. That's their token budget right now? I don't know, maybe less.

• 9:32Jordi Hays?

  No, overall, it's insignificant.

• 9:35John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 9:36Jordi Hays?

  But when, when they are spending more money than they are making.

• 9:40John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 9:40Jordi Hays?

  It hurts a little bit more.

• 9:42John Coogan?

  Mike Isaac's been reporting on this. He says Meta is going full bore with pushing other companies to add the same restrictions it will add to its apps as part of the settlement. Meta plans to run this copy as a full print, full page print advertisement in the Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, and the New York Times tomorrow morning. Wow, little back, little circular deal for Mike promoting the New York Times. He works there, man. Undisclosed, what's going on?

• 10:08Jordi Hays?

  No. Yeah, and it is just a very wonderful spin to get, to be forced to pay $17 billion settlement for getting children addicted to your product. And then tell other social, other addictive social media companies to join us in supporting teens. It's just chef's kiss from.

• 10:33John Coogan?

  You think it should be like, join us in apologizing as well, basically?

• 10:37Jordi Hays?

  Well, I, I, I just think it's a good spin. That's all.

• 10:40John Coogan?

  Okay, well, here, here's what they said through this agreement. They've set out a path toward industry-wide commitments to further empower parents by introducing a two-hour daily time limit, turning off access to our apps at night as, as a default. No notifications during school hours, clear prompts and notifications to teens every 15 minutes of continuous screen time, new parental supervision controls. So parents can decide how their teens use their apps. I think all this makes sense. Defaults are powerful. So even if, you know, a parent wants to go in and allow their kid because they've got a night owl who's cooking up an incredible new IG account and is printing or something. I don't know. I mean, there are plenty of good reasons to use social media, even while you're young. But, but defaults are powerful and I think this is a good thing.

• 11:25John Coogan?

  I don't think it affects the business that much. I don't think they make that much money from young people because kids don't buy cars on Instagram, like expensive things. Whereas a lot of millennials and even Gen Xers and boomers are on there shopping all the time. So the immediate revenue impact of any of these is minimal. You just don't want to wind up in a situation where you lose ground to TikTok and YouTube because they become the kid-friendly one that the kids are like, oh, well, TikTok doesn't have any of these stupid restrictions. So I'm going to use that. And then they remain a user for their entire life and you lose an entire.

• 11:58Jordi Hays?

  Oh, yeah. I mean, the, the main, yeah, I mean, if, if somebody is primarily addicted to Instagram.

• 12:04John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 12:04Jordi Hays?

  And they get their two, two-hour budget.

• 12:06John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 12:06Jordi Hays?

  And historically, they would have used the product for three, four hours. You have that spillover attention. So it will potentially help less addictive, addictive social media platforms. Get more, get more user minutes.

• 12:19John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. And, and this was the original Instagram threat was that a younger generation was using Instagram and Facebook was going to become like the, what do they call it? The blue app or the old, old book or something? I don't know. It was going to only maintain the, the older cohort. And that's sort of what happened, but it didn't matter because Meta bought Instagram. Then Snapchat was even like the younger crowd tried to buy it. They couldn't. They wound up cloning it. They were successful. And so the, the company maintained, but they can't let a new social media app come up and dominate kids, not for the short-term monetization, it's for the long-term.

• 12:53Jordi Hays?

  They don't mention Snap in the open letter. Is that a, is that a shots fired?

• 12:58John Coogan?

  It's a dig.

• 12:58Jordi Hays?

  A subtle dig?

• 12:59John Coogan?

  I think so. I don't know. Tim Cook sent a final memo to Apple employees on his last day as CEO. He said, I will miss this work in ways I can only begin to imagine. Even as I remain completely at peace with my decision.

• 13:16Jordi Hays?

  Just reading the entire memo.

• 13:18John Coogan?

  I'm not regretting it, but I will miss it. He's a workaholic. He doesn't want to, he doesn't want to retire. I was really hoping he would have another 30-year run in him, you know? Like if, if, if Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger can work till they're in their 90s, why can't Tim Cook? Like fundamentally, how is the job of?

• 13:37Jordi Hays?

  I think he was unhappy with the pay.

• 13:41John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 13:41Jordi Hays?

  I mean, when you have, when you have, when you have MLB players making as much money as you while you're running one of the largest companies in history, when you're one of the greatest CEOs in history, period.

• 13:54John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 13:54Jordi Hays?

  And you can barely.

• 13:55John Coogan?

  75, 74.3. They couldn't even get him over 75.

• 14:00Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. And no, and not enough people were willing to march on Cupertino.

• 14:04John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 14:05Jordi Hays?

  In protest of this, right? And so I think at some point he's like, look, if people, if, you know, shareholders.

• 14:10John Coogan?

  Yeah, I'm voting with my feet.

• 14:12Jordi Hays?

  I'm voting.

• 14:13John Coogan?

  Exactly. I'm voting with my feet. I'm out, I'm out. In the news today in, in the Wall Street Journal, booming corporate earnings fuel lofty outlooks. The economy is doing very well. A lot of that's driven by tariff refunds. Tim Cook, I mean, people, people lament like the lack of like an entirely new form factor. The Vision Pro wasn't a breakout success. Like a lot of the great devices still came from the Steve Jobs era. And Tim Cook merely managed and carried everything along.

• 14:40Jordi Hays?

  Scaled.

• 14:41John Coogan?

  Did so much on the services side that no one really gives him credit for with advertising in the App Store and just money printing machine working flawlessly. But he also negotiated like a very tumultuous political environment for a decade or more, essentially flawlessly. Like the fact that Donald Trump has never called Tim Cook, Tim Crook, is a huge, huge feather in his cap.

• 15:07Jordi Hays?

  I agree.

• 15:07John Coogan?

  Because it was sitting right there as a, as a Trump-style dig.

• 15:13Jordi Hays?

  Never had to, never had to go for it.

• 15:14John Coogan?

  Never had to go for it. And so he was able to negotiate Washington and all of the different, you know, quagmires that are there. Not get his supply chain nuked, keep the, keep the products flowing. There were little, little hiccups here and there. But overall, the company has been firing on all cylinders. So what a great send-off. You can go read the full letter. Apple Vision Pro's layoffs went beyond video and gaming. It included employees across the company, including people working on device security, audio engineering, Siri integration, testing, and the product's operating system.

• 15:48John Coogan?

  They are focused on AI devices and people are really optimistic about the new Mac M6 chip, like just being really good for AI and being something that continues to, to drive value for the company. And creates like an AI winner narrative in the face of not really spending any money on AI in the traditional sense, not, not buying a NeoLab, not buying a bunch of data centers, staying out of the weeds. But still benefiting because these powerful computers get only more powerful when you have computer use.

• 16:17Jordi Hays?

  It still is so crazy. They haven't pulled the trigger on a NeoLab.

• 16:21John Coogan?

  I don't think they need to.

• 16:22Jordi Hays?

  Like.

• 16:22John Coogan?

  I don't think they will. I think they're just going to be a hardware company. That's what they do. They're like NeoLab is software. They don't need software.

• 16:28Jordi Hays?

  Now, I, I think the strategy is working.

• 16:31John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 16:31Jordi Hays?

  But if you asked me a year ago, will Apple make a 500 to $1 billion acquisition of a NeoLab, just a talent acquisition?

• 16:40John Coogan?

  Is that a NeoLab for ants? What are you talking about?

• 16:43Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, what NeoLab can buy for 500?

• 16:45John Coogan?

  500 million dollar NeoLab?

• 16:48Jordi Hays?

  I'm not going to name names, but there's been some NeoLabs that would raise 100 on 500.

• 16:53John Coogan?

  Isn't there a NeoLab that you were just on the phone with that they could baby pick up?

• 16:57Jordi Hays?

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:57John Coogan?

  Charleston AI. Do we have a video of Charleston AI?

• 17:00Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, let's pull up Charleston AI.

• 17:02John Coogan?

  Cupertino, Charleston. I think there's something there potentially.

• 17:06Jordi Hays?

  I actually think that you could rapidly scale a franchise business that takes the Charleston AI concept, gives somebody all the programming and all the different product offerings. And then helps local entrepreneurs set up their own.

• 17:19John Coogan?

  I think that's what Charleston AI does.

• 17:21Jordi Hays?

  No, I know, but I think Charleston AI needs to go global.

• 17:23John Coogan?

  Ooh, okay.

• 17:24Speaker 02

  I'm one of the co-founders of Charleston AI. We're local to Charleston and we're here to help humans, help humans with AI.

• 17:34Speaker 02

  And here is our lab. This is where AI comes alive. What used to take months to get accomplished, we can do in hours for you. Here we have an empty office available for somebody that wants to make Charleston AI their home. Charleston AI's conference room where our clients come in, individuals and small businesses come in, and we discuss what it is they'd like to do with AI in their business or personally. We listen very carefully, take notes and make sure we get it right. And then we offer them a way to make it work.

• 18:07John Coogan?

  AI is not. Now, you called Charleston AI, correct?

• 18:11Jordi Hays?

  Correct.

• 18:11John Coogan?

  Who answered the phone?

• 18:13Jordi Hays?

  So, yeah, one of the founders answered the phone, but it was an AI version of him and it sounded exactly like his voice.

• 18:18John Coogan?

  That's pretty impressive. That's why.

• 18:19Jordi Hays?

  I, yeah.

• 18:22Jordi Hays?

  It's a very funny video, but I'm, I, I think it's actually.

• 18:25John Coogan?

  A good business.

• 18:26Jordi Hays?

  A good business.

• 18:26John Coogan?

  Yeah, probably.

• 18:27Jordi Hays?

  And I think it should exist. Like some people, they're curious about AI. Maybe they're running a small business. Maybe they're a freelancer. Maybe they're a teacher, whatever. It's nice to just drive by something and go in somewhere and talk to real people that are in your community to learn about something that's complicated and sometimes scary. So I'm very in favor of it.

• 18:45John Coogan?

  Didn't Best Buy build a whole Geek Squad team for exactly?

• 18:48Jordi Hays?

  I think they acquired, they acquired Geek Squad, didn't they?

• 18:51John Coogan?

  Was it over or under 500 billion? Let's find out. Anyway, there's an interesting story.

• 18:57Jordi Hays?

  Yes, acquired.

• 18:59John Coogan?

  Read acquired. Wow.

• 19:00Jordi Hays?

  That would be cool.

• 19:02John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 19:02Jordi Hays?

  A new Charleston AI on wheels.

• 19:05John Coogan?

  On wheels. Oh, they come to you.

• 19:06Jordi Hays?

  Mobile data centers.

• 19:07John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 19:08Jordi Hays?

  That can come. So the Geek Squad acquisition was only 3 million.

• 19:12John Coogan?

  What?

• 19:12Jordi Hays?

  3 million.

• 19:13John Coogan?

  3 million?

• 19:14Jordi Hays?

  2002.

• 19:15John Coogan?

  Eh, it's not bad for back then.

• 19:16Jordi Hays?

  That's like 400 million in today's dollar style. And that was before you were born, but that was a lot of money back then.

• 19:24John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 19:26John Coogan?

  OpenAI has reportedly bought tens of thousands of Mac minis and Mac Studios for reinforcement learning and training computer use agents while Anthropic rents Mac minis through AWS. Oh, you can rent Mac minis through AWS? That's interesting. I didn't know that. The Information reported this. I was playing around with computer use over the break, had a lot of fun. I had Codex try and beat Bellatro, this poker-style game that I like to play on PC. It did okay. It wasn't, it was a little slow still, and I don't think it, I don't think it actually won the full game, but it's fun watching it like play a new game. I saw that demo of beating Slay the Spire, which is pretty impressive because it's a hard game.

• 20:08John Coogan?

  I like the, I like the Codex or ChatGPT playing the game. I want to see the latency come down. I want to see it play Modern Warfare because I want to play against it and I want to see who's better, me or the AI. In somewhat related news to the, to the speed of inference, OpenAI's jalapeno is spicy, says Dylan Patel. Dylan Patel says OpenAI's jalapeno is spicy. Usually, first-generation chips aren't competitive, but OpenAI is beating Nvidia Blackwell and even Ruben. This is huge news. We got to go into OpenAI's lab to dissect their new chip and dive into the software architecture and performance. Incredible work.

• 20:53John Coogan?

  There's a bunch of interesting details about this chip. OpenAI put a whole blog post, but to clarify some, some important points, it's an LLM inference chip, not designed for training, but the results are really good. So roughly 1.5 to 1.9x more useful inference throughput per watt than Nvidia GB200, GB300 systems, while simultaneously cutting end-to-end latency 1.7 to 3.6x. So faster inference, less latency, but also just your dollars and your energy, your watts are going to go a lot further, which is very, very good. It's a data center rack-scale system. I would love to get this in the consumer device, shrink it down, do something there,

• 21:36John Coogan?

  but it's going in the data center and they're going to do a lot of them. Did you know the size of the Broadcom deal? 10 gigawatts of this chip? It might not be exactly this chip. It could be the Gen 2, the Gen 3, but the pre-existing Broadcom, OpenAI-

• 21:53Jordi Hays?

  And put it into context, that's roughly five times more compute than the whole company currently has.

• 21:59John Coogan?

  Something like that.

• 22:00Jordi Hays?

  Operational, roughly.

• 22:01John Coogan?

  Yeah, but this is by, this is through 2029, but that's aggressive. That's, that's like three years, three months away, I guess, you can do the end of the year. Yeah, 10, 10 gigawatts of OpenAI-designed accelerator systems manufactured by Broadcom or in partnership with Broadcom, deployed from the second half of 2026. And the crazy thing is that like they're on track for the second half of 2026, like they, it is going into production and it's a lot faster than most people thought. The, the, the previous like industry knowledge was, yeah, any new chip is going to take years and this happened very, very quickly. So good to stretch that energy further. You need less data centers to do more inference. That's good, good for gross margins and also just good for the narrative of speeding things

• 22:46John Coogan?

  up.

• 22:47Jordi Hays?

  C W K O N E says, please tell me y'all are going to touch Address on Instinct in the $350 million raise, the $2.5 billion. Yeah, super impressive how much attention and traction Instinct has received after just, they've been building the company for like four or five months, it seems. It's like very recent. I haven't used the product yet just because giving that level of access to this new startup. I looked at, I looked, I mean, their terms and conditions were floating around and it kind of seemed like you're giving away the-

• 23:24John Coogan?

  I mean, everything you get is, all of your data is going to be saved like pretty much in like a clear text database. It'll be secure, but like they will have-

• 23:33Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, so I wasn't ready to, to try it yet, even though it seems like, it seems like a lot of people, what's cool is it seems like people are quickly having like a magical moment, right? Whether it's like-

• 23:45John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 23:46Jordi Hays?

  -getting a reservation for a restaurant or movie tickets or things like that. And I think that's super, super important for like a consumer product to have that sort of like short timeline. I, I was reflecting on the Instinct round and, and my immediate thought was, well, back in my day, when a hot consumer tech company like caught a little bit of attention, they would get like a 25 on 150 from Benchmark and that was seen as like, oh wow, this is, this is, this company has some meaningful traction and potential, but it's just crazy to see this quickly, a, a company get the, the $2.5 billion round.

• 24:30Jordi Hays?

  And I think I, there's some, I think that there's reasons to be a little bit wary. I want to see, I want to see them break out of like the, the VC hype cycle with this product. So when, historically, when we've seen consumer products or prosumer products, you know, I'm thinking of Clubhouse or Superhuman, when there's somewhat of a question of like, the more a VC likes something, potentially the less viable it is at a, at a massive, massive scale, right? So it's possible that it, it can, but again, if they can solve the always-on digital assistant, it is a massive, massive opportunity, but I'm just saying they're pricing a lot of

• 25:15Jordi Hays?

  that in right now when this company is four months old-

• 25:18John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 25:19Jordi Hays?

  -and valued at like a third of the, of what Snapchat is, right?

• 25:22John Coogan?

  Sure, sure, sure. The other, the other interesting question I had was like, going back to Sam's post about the merge, Sam Altman wrote the merge about how like in the future you might merge with AI. And I'm wondering about like, at least in the short term, is it better to have a product like Instinct where it has your email, it has your iMessage? Or is it, is it actually going to be more receptive for many people to have a degree of separation there and say, okay, I effectively have a, an assistant that has its own phone and its own email. And if I want to share an email, I'll forward my email there. And maybe it has read-only access to my email, but then if it, if it's going to go book me a, a reservation, I want it to call from its phone number-

• 26:07Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 26:08John Coogan?

  -and identify itself as someone else because it's like, there's a little bit of distance there. Maybe like, oh, I'm still in control of sharing certain things, maybe I share more stuff over time. And I'm wondering if there's, there's more of like, should, should your AI agent be Jordi or should it be like John Doe and, and it's, and it's embodied? I don't know. Gets to the question of-

• 26:29Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. That's the idea of the, the Gweren Guardian Angels like company-

• 26:33John Coogan?

  Oh, I didn't know that.

• 26:34Jordi Hays?

  -which is basically you have, like, it's not John's agent, it's like a copy of John.

• 26:38John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 26:39Jordi Hays?

  And then it's like, it's still a separate being, but it, it acts, it has like your preferences, whatever.

• 26:43John Coogan?

  Interesting.

• 26:44Jordi Hays?

  But it's still like a separate thing. It's not using all of your emails, text messages, stuff like that.

• 26:47John Coogan?

  Very, very interesting. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I can see, I can see why the value is high.

• 26:51Jordi Hays?

  Intelligence, we got to talk about the world humanoid robot games.

• 26:56John Coogan?

  Let's do it. They set a world record, right? They broke the speed record or something like that? This is the KeyG X1 DAX AI Robotics, this is the one? Ride a horse, dog? Its legs use self-developed high-torque electric joint motors powered by a high-voltage battery. This, we've seen so many AI videos of this.

• 27:22Jordi Hays?

  So this opportunity to not use like, you know, Hollywood, you know, fake flesh to make this look like Clydesdale.

• 27:28John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 27:29Jordi Hays?

  I think-

• 27:30John Coogan?

  Be a little low to the ground.

• 27:31Jordi Hays?

  All right, well-

• 27:32John Coogan?

  Corgi Clydesdale.

• 27:33Jordi Hays?

  Make the legs a little bit bigger.

• 27:35John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 27:36Jordi Hays?

  Anyways, I'm very excited to the, about, you know, this form factor. I expect to be, you know, riding autonomously to work.

• 27:44John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:45Jordi Hays?

  I expect this to be a commuter product, at least. A land jet ski, Davis in the, in the X-

• 27:50John Coogan?

  It is a land jet ski.

• 27:52Jordi Hays?

  -is calling it. Here's another video of one crashing and burning at high speed.

• 27:58John Coogan?

  Oh, wow. I didn't see this. I thought it only broke the record, but wow, that's really sparking. That is crazy.

• 28:08Jordi Hays?

  Absolute chaos. Rune had a good like take about the robotics thing, which is where like all, all the Chinese robots, the demos are all these like kinetic displays of like doing these like crazy dance moves or fighting or running really fast. And all the US ones are basically manipulating like small things that you do in a factory.

• 28:24John Coogan?

  Interesting.

• 28:25Jordi Hays?

  So it's like-

• 28:26John Coogan?

  Seems opposite. It seems like America prides like the, the 100-meter dash more than the, the fine motor skill manufacturing of things.

• 28:34Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, so, so, I mean, it's like-

• 28:36John Coogan?

  We should swap.

• 28:37Jordi Hays?

  In some ways, it's like, oh, we're so far behind the Chinese in robotics, but like maybe on the actual things that really matter for, you know, manufacturing, whatever, I think it's unclear.

• 28:44John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 28:45Jordi Hays?

  That's good cope. That's good cope.

• 28:47John Coogan?

  No, there's-

• 28:48Jordi Hays?

  I like that cope. Let's lean in there and cope harder.

• 28:50John Coogan?

  AI M&A is in full effect. We were asking questions about this maybe a year ago. Samir Kaji says, I don't think we're close to done. Cursor, 60 billion. Open Router, 8 billion. Hugging Face, 13 billion. Decart, 6 to 7 billion, along with SPX, SpaceX, Anduril, Anthropic, Ramp, OpenAI, Databricks and others on the IPO path. And the next few years will bring historic amounts of liquidity, although a lot of those deals have to be for stock. Of course, if you're getting bought by a public company, it's different, but for some of those, for some of those deals, like the Open Router is probably not that much liquidity in the short term, right? But still, it's a lot.

• 29:30John Coogan?

  And so he says, it's also likely prolongs the level of front, of froth, I imagine he's saying, we are seeing today, but after a long stretch of nothing, this is seriously incredible. There's been a ton of M&A and the appetite for M&A in the unicorn, Decacorn category has been remarkably resilient and, and significant. But it makes sense with so many trillion-dollar companies paying 1% of your market cap for something that could be an entirely new business line sort of lines up, but it does change the venture capital underwriting pretty significantly. And I mean, it justifies, it justifies a seed at $1 billion. If, if there's, if there's 10 comps that sold for 10 billion, your 10x is still there, intact today.

• 30:15John Coogan?

  So, I don't know. Also, I mean, Kevin Durant's doing well. He was a seed investor in Hugging Face. He made an estimated 467x return on that investment, like the company acquired Nvidia. He invested a 100K check that would equate to $46.7 million. And Stuart Bullard shares a post-

• 30:35Jordi Hays?

  Really, really wild.

• 30:36John Coogan?

  Investing is better than going to the club, he said in 2010. Wow, that, that is right. What a good, and he was posting, he was posting back in 2017, exciting for the new, excited for the new release of hashtag Hugging Face. And here's a Durant.ly link, proud investor, Durant.ly. We'll see you tomorrow. Thank you for watching the show. Great to be back.

• 31:01Jordi Hays?

  We missed you guys.

• 31:02John Coogan?

  We missed everyone here. We will see you tomorrow. We have a very special show for you and many more throughout the fall.

• 31:09Jordi Hays?

  An honor and a privilege.

• 31:10John Coogan?

  We'll see you tomorrow. Goodbye.