Jersey Mikes's IPO, AI Lab Nationalization, SpaceX AIPhone | Diet TBPN

Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after. Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. TBPN is made possible by: Ramp - https://ramp.com Public - https://public.com Cisco - https://www.cisco.com Console - https://www.console.com CrowdStrike - https://www.crowdstrike.com Figma - https://www.figma.com MongoDB - https://www.mongodb.com NYSE - https://www.nyse.com Railway - https://railway.com Shopify - https://www.shopify.com/ Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02John Coogan?

  Fable has been freed. Fable 5 is now available. Good news for the AI world, of course. The Wall Street Journal says the battle over how to tame AI has just begun. Obviously, there's lots of back and forth on how these models get released. Who gets access? When people get access? Will the government get access at certain points? How fettered is the intelligence? How unfettered is the intelligence? But there's a number of interesting news. The interesting detail that people are sort of pulling at is the new Fable 5 that is now released seems to have been nerfed in some ways. There's always been questions about, you know, okay, you don't want it to be able to build a bioweapon or hack a system.

• 0:47John Coogan?

  So locking down cybersecurity makes sense, but you should probably disclose that and be transparent about it. And then the question of how do you deal with the self-replicating AI? If you just ask it to build an AI system that can build you a bioweapon? Well, then you have the permission.

• 1:05Jordi Hays?

  You could just say building the unfettered intelligence.

• 1:08John Coogan?

  Exactly. So you have to nerf that.

• 1:09Jordi Hays?

  Cambridge Analytica, unfettered, not limited by rules or any controlling influence.

• 1:13John Coogan?

  What did you say?

• 1:14Jordi Hays?

  Unfettered.

• 1:15John Coogan?

  No, no. What source is this?

• 1:18Jordi Hays?

  Cambridge.

• 1:19John Coogan?

  You said Cambridge Analytica, which I don't think has a dictionary website.

• 1:24Jordi Hays?

  They should launch a dictionary.

• 1:26John Coogan?

  That would be good.

• 1:27Jordi Hays?

  That would be great.

• 1:27John Coogan?

  Maybe.

• 1:28Jordi Hays?

  The Cambridge Dictionary.

• 1:29John Coogan?

  But the dictionary, the dictionary definition of unfettered is?

• 1:33Jordi Hays?

  Not limited by rules or any controlling influence. So if there's like.

• 1:37John Coogan?

  I feel like unfettered intelligence, you're going to get regulated immediately.

• 1:40Jordi Hays?

  Well, I just think like Neolab, like everyone wants to be the cool, friendly Neolab.

• 1:44John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:45Jordi Hays?

  There's space for kind of a sketchy villain.

• 1:50John Coogan?

  Well, we have Vipul from Together AI, building open source AI cloud infrastructure coming on the show. I'm sure he can talk about what's capable, what's possible when you are building unfettered intelligence. This is from the Financial Times. OpenAI proposes handing Trump administration a 5% stake. Joe Weisenthal is pushing back already. He says, I don't know about this path. Rather than equity stakes, why not make companies pay 20% of all pre-tax income to the federal government? And then instead of exercising shareholder influence, politicians and regulators could set rules on corporate conduct across industries.

• 2:26John Coogan?

  Interesting.

• 2:27Jordi Hays?

  I like where he's going with this. Someone should try this. At least try it out.

• 2:31John Coogan?

  Contrarian take. But yes, Dean Ball already chimed in on this news. He said, there are two broad ways this can work. One, you divide this 5% over all US households, handing each a direct stake. Or two, you give the stake directly to the government. One is fine. Two is probably ruinous, akin to inviting rats to live and reproduce in the walls of your house. Which is wild. He says it will never stop at 5%.

• 2:57Jordi Hays?

  Don't knock it till you try it, Dean.

• 2:59John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:59Jordi Hays?

  There's some rats out there that can be quite excellent roommates.

• 3:04John Coogan?

  Are you a rat guy? I thought you were a mosquito guy. I thought you liked mosquitoes.

• 3:07Jordi Hays?

  No, I do like squirrels.

• 3:08John Coogan?

  Squirrels, okay.

• 3:09Jordi Hays?

  Squirrels.

• 3:10John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:10Jordi Hays?

  I feel like I have a bond with squirrels.

• 3:12John Coogan?

  They're sort of the aristocratic rat.

• 3:14Jordi Hays?

  When I see a squirrel in my yard, I look at it and I just salute. And...

• 3:18John Coogan?

  People have said you have the mind of a squirrel.

• 3:20Jordi Hays?

  They have.

• 3:20John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:21Jordi Hays?

  They've said that I have the mind of a rodent.

• 3:25John Coogan?

  Yes. Dean Ball continues. He says, "It will never stop at 5%. It will go on and on. The governance will become a nightmare. Political capture will be real, and it will generate precisely no goodwill with the public." Yeah, that's a good point. And we were talking about this before, this idea of like...

• 3:40Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, one of the challenges is even the way this was phrased in the Financial Times.

• 3:44John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:44Jordi Hays?

  The assumption is that it sounds like they're giving shares not to a sovereign AI fund, which is, I think, what was actually proposed, but just giving it to the White House.

• 3:56John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:57Jordi Hays?

  Which, given the disclosures that were made earlier this week...

• 4:01John Coogan?

  Financial Times is not having fun with it. So, "Trump denies conflicts of interest as filings show he made more than $1 billion last year. $1.4 billion of stocks bought, $432 million sold. Deals for watches and perfume." Yes, the Trump watch happened. I saw a crazy chart that said that Trump earned, out-earned Coinbase in terms of profit from crypto. In the last 12 months or something like that. I forget the exact stat, but it showed all the different crypto platforms and many of them were down because it's been a rough market. Some of them are up, but no one is up more than the President of the United States. Wild times, wild times. But yes, it seems like the green shoot here, the white

• 4:45John Coogan?

  pill, the optimistic outcome is that if there's lab nationalization, if there's some sort of distribution of equity to Americans, it happens through the Trump accounts, through a social security number, through some sort of identity that the individual can have a stake in as opposed to, as opposed to just going into some fund. We were talking about this with data centers where people are

• 5:11Jordi Hays?

  Tyler has the data. We can pull it up.

• 5:13John Coogan?

  Okay, let's pull it up. Wait, do you have it or no?

• 5:16Jordi Hays?

  Well, yes. Coinbase made 1.26 billion net income. But pull up this chart because it is pretty remarkable.

• 5:24John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:27John Coogan?

  But as I was saying with data centers.

• 5:29Jordi Hays?

  You guys, you guys okay? I know it's 4th of July weekend coming up, but.

• 5:36John Coogan?

  There we go. Look at this. Okay, scroll off a little bit.

• 5:39Jordi Hays?

  Let's get it a little centered.

• 5:40John Coogan?

  There we go. Core scientific.

• 5:43Jordi Hays?

  Let's lock it into the center.

• 5:44John Coogan?

  Galaxy.

• 5:45Jordi Hays?

  Let's lock. There we go. Amazing. Thank you.

• 5:49John Coogan?

  Out-earned biggest listed US crypto firms. You have to imagine that is hyper liquid doing better? I feel like hyper liquid was on a tear for a while. I don't know how they're doing recently, but anyway, staggering chart. But as we were talking about with data centers, there's one idea, which is just tax them, increase the tax base, but having taxes go into your local government is great and can provide roads and schools and pay for things and balance the budget. And that's great, but it's abstract as opposed to the Ben Thompson proposal, which was data center shows up in a small town. It's in, you know, a sparsely populated area. There might only be 5,000, 10,000 residents in the city, but they all get checks for, he ran the numbers and it was like a thousand dollars a month for some of these data center.

• 6:34John Coogan?

  Projects where they're making so much money and the town's so small, they can do a meaningful check to the individuals. And that sort of direct payment, I think is going to be better received than this abstract, oh yeah, my government's better funded. But are they going to cut my taxes? Are they going to successfully build that road? I don't know. And it doesn't help me pay my bills, which I think is what people want. What are you saying?

• 6:56Jordi Hays?

  Trump did, in fact, out earn hyper liquid.

• 6:58John Coogan?

  He did.

• 6:59Jordi Hays?

  By a meaningful margin. Hyper liquid generated 908 million in total fees in 2025.

• 7:03John Coogan?

  Brutal.

• 7:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, so just like running very quick numbers on the opening, I think. So if it's like 5%, let's say it's at a trillion or something, that's 50 billion. If you're giving it to households, like this idea, there's like 130 million households. That's like $371 of like equity per household, which I think is like, sure, maybe that's meaningful. But it doesn't seem like that's really going to like change people's perceptions of the labs, if that's like part of the goal, right?

• 7:29John Coogan?

  Well, I think if it's, I mean, so.

• 7:31Jordi Hays?

  Maybe the idea is they do the right parlay with that.

• 7:36John Coogan?

  I mean, the nice thing about the Trump accounts is that they are set up in a way that you can elect to donate to just children born this year. And when you segment by that, the denominator gets a lot smaller. And so the impact gets a lot bigger. So you could be all of a sudden looking at something like a few thousand dollars for every kid born this year or something like that. You can narrow it down. You could do every kid under five, or you could do everyone under 18. And that type of, I mean, you're right, it's not going to move the needle as much as broad, broad distribution for everyone. But you can be a little bit more targeted with it. I don't know. There's different approaches.

• 8:21Jordi Hays?

  Ryan says, wait, does America get 5% of TBPN?

• 8:25John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 8:25Jordi Hays?

  I was never thinking about that.

• 8:27John Coogan?

  Yes. We podcast for you, America.

• 8:29Jordi Hays?

  That's right.

• 8:30John Coogan?

  This is the funniest outcomes, the most likely. And that's exactly what's happening here.

• 8:34Jordi Hays?

  Community ownership.

• 8:35John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 8:36Jordi Hays?

  Of this show.

• 8:36John Coogan?

  Somebody called me a fed based on this news. And I said, I don't even know what to do with that, but. I guess it's somewhat true. The actual story here, just to reset, OpenAI is apparently in talks, according to the Financial Times, with the Trump administration to give a 5% equity stake in the company. The Financial Times describes the talks as "early conversations", but the plans seem to involve other frontier AI players apportioning stakes in their companies as well. The obvious context around this story is, at least on a straightforward read, that AI companies need at least to stem the seemingly ever-growing negative sentiment around AI and data centers. Doing business with the Trump admin has turned out well

• 9:18John Coogan?

  for other companies like Intel and Dell. Intel's the big one, where post-government stake, I think the stock is up 200 or 400%, something like that?

• 9:26Jordi Hays?

  400.

• 9:27John Coogan?

  400%, very, very strong performance for Intel. And being difficult to do, being difficult to do business with the admin has been unambiguously bad for others. And now there's a vehicle with the Trump accounts that can facilitate equity transfers from corporations to average Americans. Again, these are early conversations, so we're very light on the details, but we'll be discussing this news, of course. In other news, Jersey Mike's is filing for initial public offering. Jersey Mike's is going public. The sandwich chain, Jersey Mike's, filed for IPO today. It's looking for a $12 billion valuation after being acquired by Blackstone last year for $8 billion.

• 10:06Jordi Hays?

  Let's give it up for Blackstone.

• 10:08John Coogan?

  Yeah. They needed a win. They're getting a nice 50% markup in just a year.

• 10:12Jordi Hays?

  Forced out of buying single-family homes.

• 10:16John Coogan?

  Yeah. That's not true at all. There hasn't been any, there hasn't been any regulation around that whatsoever.

• 10:21Jordi Hays?

  No, I'm joking.

• 10:21John Coogan?

  They do own 95% of homes, apparently, something like that. No, it's like, it's like half a percent or something. It's low. But Jersey Mike's has 3,300 locations across the US and Canada, plans to open 300 shops in the UK and Ireland. Peter Kankrow, Jersey Mike's founder, who's not named Mike, you would assume he was, but the founder of Jersey Mike's is in fact named Peter. He started the business in 1975 when he was 17 years old. Wow, young. Overnight success. He actually founded the business when he purchased a sandwich shop in Point Pleasant, New Jersey called Mike's Subs with a $125,000 loan that he got from his then football

• 11:05John Coogan?

  coach, who was also a banker. So you're

• 11:08Jordi Hays?

  Incredible.

• 11:09John Coogan?

  playing high school football in New Jersey and you have an idea to buy a sandwich shop

• 11:17Jordi Hays?

  Coach was like, this guy's a star. I should give him a six-figure SBA loan.

• 11:22John Coogan?

  Also, $125,000 in 1975 is like $25 million by today's standards. Isn't it?

• 11:30Jordi Hays?

  Also, that's just such a, at least personally, at 17, if I had a couple thousand dollars in my bank account, I was feeling like the king of the castle. So $125,000 to buy a sandwich shop. We don't really know what the financials were of the sandwich shop. It's very possible that, you know, it was just such a slam dunk deal that even a 17-year-old could operate it.

• 11:55John Coogan?

  This is a no-brainer.

• 11:56Jordi Hays?

  It might have just been a no-brainer, but clearly

• 11:59John Coogan?

  So, $125,000 in 1975, just using inflation, not investing in the market, not compounding, using the general CPI inflation numbers, that gives you $775,000 in today's dollars. So if you're a 17-year-old football player, just go to your football coach and say, hey, can you loan me 3/4 of a million dollars?

• 12:24Jordi Hays?

  CH in the chat says, Coach, I need A100s.

• 12:27John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 12:27Jordi Hays?

  You might be able to go to your coach and, you know, basically get the financing to set up some type of NeoCloud.

• 12:33John Coogan?

  Yeah. So he grew the company for almost 50 years, 1975 to 2025, basically, before transitioning to chairman this April. Former Wingstop CEO Charlie Morrison now leads the company. The ticker will be J M K E, Jersey Mike's. So go check it out. The other news, the Office of Personnel Management, OPM, otherwise known as Other People's Money, is ending taking other people's money via paper for retirement. OPM ends paper-based retirement process. The US Office of Personnel Management says it has digitized the retirement process for government employees.

• 13:14John Coogan?

  This might seem like a boring news item, but the story behind it is actually kind of wild. Up until now, the process for government employees and US veterans to retire and start receiving their pensions could take up to six months. That's a long time. This is because it's entirely paper-based and manual. Spike Brem, who helped with the effort, described how crazy this turned out to be in reality in a post on X. They said, "They did it. The Mad Lads actually did it." I never talked about my time at Doge last year because it was so controversial and contentious. Early last year, Joe Gebbia, founder of Airbnb and current US Chief Design Officer,

• 13:55John Coogan?

  recruited a handful of his most trusted early Airbnb engineers to embed at the Office of Personnel Management to solve the retirement paper problem. Said processing a federal retirement took months. And in the extreme, retirees could wait up to six months for their full pension to arrive. What was the holdup? Paper. Remember hearing Elon talk about the mine in Pennsylvania? We got to visit it in deep underground caverns blasted out of limestone. There were literally acres of file cabinets as far as the eye could

• 14:26Jordi Hays?

  I'm gonna go ahead and say this was a feature, not a bug.

• 14:29John Coogan?

  You like this?

• 14:30Jordi Hays?

  I think people generally yearn for the mines. And so it's possible that it wasn't the most efficient way to do business, but it was the most fun way.

• 14:39John Coogan?

  But now you're like a single-issue voter, like, "We gotta return. We gotta go back."

• 14:42Jordi Hays?

  We gotta bring back the mine.

• 14:43John Coogan?

  Yeah, okay, okay. You're into the mines. A controversial position, but enjoy it. Storing files detailing federal employees' employment and pasted up history. A simple case might be a quarter or a half inch thick, but really complex cases. Filled up whole filing cabinets. One famously took up a whole pallet. I wonder what was going on with that particular federal government employee that they had a whole pallet. Were they jumping around from job to job or something? I don't know. Each case was handed, was hand processed by caseworkers in cubicles deep underground. So you clock in at the ultimate lock-in factory, in the mine, in a cubicle, underground,

• 15:25John Coogan?

  processing someone's pension. They checked calculations, made sure forms were filled out properly. Many weren't, and handed the long tail of complex issues. We watched as they keyed data into a black and white terminal, transmitting to the Cobol mainframe built many decades ago. We gotta keep the Cobol flowing, for sure. We can't update that. It's such a good programming language. It just sounds so cool, Cobol. No one wants to write Ruby on Rails. You wanna write Cobol. Since cases were processed by hand, there were multiple rounds of human review, and additional rounds for complex cases. Case files were walked around between one worker's outbox and another's inbox. Sometimes it would sit in place, in one place for days, waiting to be picked up. To OPM's credit, they'd done multiple rounds of digital transformation spanning decades.

• 16:08John Coogan?

  So some systems were newer than others. Then there was a big effort in the mid 90s, but the systems were desperate, were disparate, and it was a total maze getting them to talk to each other. There was a big effort to build a web app where employees applying for retirement could digitally fill out the forms necessary, just to be mailed to the mine and stopped into the paper file. And a few federal agencies were even using it. When we arrived, OPM was midway through a fresh attempt at digital transformation, delivered by a software contractor. The black pill was seeing the entire, the terrible quality of the software and interaction with the contractors coming from Silicon Valley. I couldn't believe how low the talent quality bar was for selling software to the government. It's clear, as the O G U S D S people explained to me a decade ago,

• 16:51John Coogan?

  the primary skill these vendors have is securing government contracts. It's a huge moat. Delivery of quality product, be damned. We fired the vendor and took over the project. They'd been working on it for more than a year. And there was another year before they were going to deliver it. At first, we tried to bend it to our will to actually connect all the various data sources and get decent UX for caseworkers in the mine to use. But we soon realized we were going to have to rebuild the whole stack from scratch. It was around this time. I had to go back to New York. I had a new job waiting for me, a four-month-old, the wife whose patience was running out. But I got to watch from afar that the team cranked day and night, hitting early milestones. Now they've fully done it. Huge congrats to the team. Wow. Yeah, very interesting. There's other news.

• 17:32John Coogan?

  SpaceX apparently is maybe working on a phone. At the very least, the Wall Street Journal is reporting that during SpaceX's recent IPO roadshow, before SpaceX went public, they were showing investors a prototype of something sort of like an iPhone. AI-enhanced, maybe thinner. The Wall Street Journal has some reporting around it, and it's an interesting story. Elon's denied this a bunch, but the reporting seems pretty good at this point, that at least it was a demo.

• 18:07Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, it's hard to see why he wouldn't at least take a shot at it, is kind of my, is my point of view. He has one of the greatest telecom companies ever created.

• 18:17John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 18:18Jordi Hays?

  Global satellite network.

• 18:19John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 18:19Jordi Hays?

  Theoretically, over time, any person on the entire planet could have an internet-connected SpaceX device with Starlink. It makes a lot of sense. The other factor that I've just continued to think is quite interesting is the App Store as a moat has, is, is being diminished by AI. There's just so many things. There's so many things, there's so many apps on my phone that like five years ago I used a lot. Today, I don't use at all. So an example being like, I don't even need like the weather app.

• 18:50John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:50Jordi Hays?

  I can just be like, I can ask chat, give me the weather for the next week. Obviously not.

• 18:54John Coogan?

  Beer app?

• 18:55Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, and I don't even need that because I can just be like vibe code me my own beer app today. No, but obviously it's not like an efficient way to use, it's probably better to just open the weather app.

• 19:07John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 19:07Jordi Hays?

  But at the same time, I'm very used to it. The other thing is like even things like surf reports. Like I'll just pull a surf report in chat.

• 19:13John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 19:14Jordi Hays?

  And so there's a lot of, like, the long tail of apps are no longer like a lock-in to the iPhone for me, and I assume a lot of other people.

• 19:22John Coogan?

  Okay. Yeah, we gotta have a chicken and egg debate about this. Let me finish reporting the SpaceX news and then I want to ask you to dig into the source of why that's happening. But first, SpaceX developed an early prototype of an AI-focused handset. The device is said to be slimmer than the iPhone, runs proprietary operating system, uses XAI technology, built around Qualcomm's Snapdragon chipset. So they're not vertically integrating the chip like Apple silicon just yet, but Elon has fab chips before for Tesla. So not out of this, not out of the question. Elon Musk reportedly demoed the prototype to potential investors during SpaceX's recent IPO roadshow. The product fits with Musk's broader everything

• 20:06John Coogan?

  app vision, but it's still early and may never ship. Rumors about a Musk-built phone have circulated for years. There's videos on YouTube with like tens of millions of views that are like, "The Tesla Pie phone is coming next week." And it's all just completely fake clickbait, but it, the demand-

• 20:24Jordi Hays?

  It gets you every time.

• 20:25John Coogan?

  It doesn't get me every time. Stop it. But Elon's actually commented on this-

• 20:31Jordi Hays?

  You're sitting there in your Apple Vision Pro, you see the video and you're like, "I shouldn't click it. I know it's fake. I shouldn't click it. I know it's fake." And then you click it and you're like, "Ah, they got me again."

• 20:38John Coogan?

  Yeah. No, it is ridiculous. But Elon has had to comment on this many times. He said, "The idea of, the idea of making a phone makes me want to die," he said in October. "But if we have to make a phone, we will." Funny, funny way to say it. In February, he denied a Reuters report that SpaceX was building a phone that could connect directly to Starlink satellites, posting on X. "We are not developing a phone," and no one is commenting on this right now. So, very, very early stage. My question about apps, I think you're right. The number of apps, it used to be every month there was a hot app, every year there was a hot app, specific apps for specific things. What is driving the collapse? Because when we talked to Mark Pincus yesterday, he said that Apple is

• 21:21John Coogan?

  not pushing small apps. Like, Apple is not a, the App Store is not a reliable source of distribution for vibe-coded apps, for games, for anything. And so, back in the day- He was able to grow Zynga on the Facebook platform, which was very open and you could go viral within Facebook for a completely separate piece of software, not just content. And then you could keep that customer relationship, monetize that customer relationship off platform forever. Not the case anymore. Also, just discovery, people don't open up the App Store as much, I think. And say, oh, what are the top apps? Oh, what are the recommendations? I would love a new entertainment app. They're like, no, I got.

• 22:00Jordi Hays?

  One new app, please.

• 22:03John Coogan?

  They don't, they don't, that's not a behavior, but.

• 22:06Jordi Hays?

  Let me go to the App Store. I would like one or two new apps, please.

• 22:10John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah. But why?

• 22:11Jordi Hays?

  Doesn't happen.

• 22:12John Coogan?

  So, so, so why is it not happening? Is it because the super apps are getting more super in the sense that you don't need? You used to need, you needed Snapchat for stories, you needed TikTok for vertical video, you needed YouTube for a long form. Now Instagram can satisfy a lot of those things. If there's some new feature that pops up, Instagram will add it very quickly. As you mentioned, chat GPT and the AI chat apps can do a lot of other things that you might need a separate app for. But is it, is it that the, the apps consolidated or is it that Apple pushed that?

• 22:45Jordi Hays?

  It's a good question. I mean, I think part of it is like, we had 10 years of like very real innovation around what types of applications were possible or needed on a like powerful mobile device. And so I think that you just had like saturation, right? I still, I've said this a bunch of times on the show, but given that, you know, rewind to the chat GPT moment. I would expect there to be a lot more like net new hit apps in the App Store. And today, if you look at the top charts, obviously dominated by World Cup related things, but it's.

• 23:22John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:23Jordi Hays?

  Sports betting, like streaming apps.

• 23:26John Coogan?

  The Trump accounts are doing very well.

• 23:29Jordi Hays?

  And so it's not like, you know, if I'd, you know, fallen asleep at the chat GPT moment and woken up today, I'd expect to go and be like, okay. There's probably a bunch of new popular hit consumer apps. And it just turns out that AI is like been an extending innovation for a lot of existing apps. And so I just think the combination of the, of LLMs and chat apps being able to just do so much for you and going to continually be able to do more for you. And vibe coding is again, a, a positive tailwind for anybody.

• 24:02Jordi Hays?

  Building potentially a new device, even if it was, you know, especially if it's based on Android, but even if it was like an entirely new operating system. Elon built a new operating system for Tesla.

• 24:14John Coogan?

  But that's not the Elon goal. He's not the open platform guy. When Twitter, when he purchased Twitter, the API got smaller.

• 24:23Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying.

• 24:24John Coogan?

  Tesla's not an open ecosystem. You can't, you can't deploy a different self-driving system onto your Tesla. It's a closed system. It's a competitor to the Apple ecosystem. It's an equally walled garden, but it would be his.

• 24:37Jordi Hays?

  I'm just saying it's, it's, it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility to take a crack at a new device.

• 24:43John Coogan?

  Oh, there's a huge incentive to. I completely agree with that. You don't, no one wants to be locked in the Apple ecosystem. So you want to build your own ecosystem or your own walled garden. But the idea that it would be a non, a non-walled garden is sort of, it would be an uncharacteristic strategy. I, I think.

• 25:02Jordi Hays?

  I agree.

• 25:02John Coogan?

  Yeah. Anyway, there's another story. There was a, a couple that climbed to the top of the Empire State Building yesterday. Did you see this?

• 25:11Jordi Hays?

  I did.

• 25:12John Coogan?

  And they put up a flag and they got married or they, they, they proposed or they got engaged.

• 25:17Jordi Hays?

  A proposal.

• 25:18John Coogan?

  And brands have immediately jumped on it. Let's go, let's give it up for some advertising. No, there's backlash already. Jack Appleby said, this is so, so embarrassing. These brands think they really did, really think they did something. Loverboy is the worst. Congrats, you put your logo on a flag, really innovative stuff. The lack of originality and clever thinking in modern social media is just ridiculous. Everyone had the exact same idea. There's a meme, we got to get on the action. It, it, and what's interesting is that a lot of these are beverage brands. It looks like drink culture pop, drink Hiyo, drink loverboy, drink spritz, bulletproof. I guess that's bulletproof coffee. Fashion Nova, New York City, just the account, New York City? I don't know.

• 26:02John Coogan?

  Petco, stop breaking treats in two. It is a fun meme format, but brands always, it's very, very hard to break through if you're just piling on the top meme. What do you?

• 26:13Jordi Hays?

  And yeah, so this whole thing was.

• 26:17Jordi Hays?

  I, when I first saw the, the video of the flag going up.

• 26:22John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 26:23Jordi Hays?

  And they kind of botched the flag, I'm not gonna lie.

• 26:26John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 26:26Jordi Hays?

  And it seems like they didn't fully anticipate the wind conditions that day.

• 26:29John Coogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:30Jordi Hays?

  The flag was quite hard, uh, the, the writing on the flag was quite hard to read.

• 26:35John Coogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:35Jordi Hays?

  I would have liked to see them erect like a full-size, you know, billboard.

• 26:39John Coogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:39Jordi Hays?

  Uh, up there.

• 26:40John Coogan?

  Something permanent.

• 26:41Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, some, something, something, you know, more permanent.

• 26:45John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 26:45Jordi Hays?

  And, and certainly more legible than the flag. Uh, and then the quote was, "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." But then they were just kind of making out and proposing.

• 27:00John Coogan?

  That's kind of cool.

• 27:01Jordi Hays?

  And, uh, yeah, it just, it, it felt like.

• 27:05John Coogan?

  It has, it has a little bit of like the AI cadence to it, or like the, "Don't love your job, job your love."

• 27:11Jordi Hays?

  No, I mean, that's, that's, that's, that's a.

• 27:13John Coogan?

  Doesn't make a lot of sense, yeah.

• 27:14Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 27:15John Coogan?

  Could be a little more terse, I suppose, but, anyway, um.

• 27:19Jordi Hays?

  I just don't know if they were.

• 27:21John Coogan?

  I'm still impressed, it's just hard.

• 27:22Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, it was quite impressive.

• 27:23John Coogan?

  With a, with a climbing, how did they, did they climb up from the sidewalk? Or did they take the elevator and then hop out and then start climbing? Cause this wasn't like an Alex Honnold, "From the base, free climb, free solo attempt."

• 27:35Jordi Hays?

  How fast is this helicopter going, by the way?

• 27:38John Coogan?

  That's just the lens, baby, this is a 600 millimeter lens. Dude, lens compression, Jordy, you're learning.

• 27:43Jordi Hays?

  There we go.

• 27:44John Coogan?

  Optics, optics, this is looking through a telescope, basically.

• 27:46Jordi Hays?

  Dave says, "Quick tip for goth couples from the Matrix, make sure to account for wind speed."

• 27:53John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:53Jordi Hays?

  I agree.

• 27:54John Coogan?

  I heard some, uh, some, a recording of a helicopter pilot who was dispatched, uh, sort of emergency response, NYPD. And I think with helicopter pilots, like, they're like, "Uh, alert, sir, we have, uh, two individuals on the top of the Empire State Building." He was like, "That's, that's cool." He's like, "That's awesome, why are they up there?" And they're like, "Oh, they're not supposed to be, they're trespassing." He's like, "Oh, okay, bummer," but, uh, still, impressive, anyway.

• 28:20Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, good, good story, good story for them. I don't know if it made the, the sort of, maybe, uh, political impact, or whatever impact they were trying to have. But, uh, happy for them.

• 28:30John Coogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:31Jordi Hays?

  And congratulations to, uh, to the couple.

• 28:35John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 28:36Jordi Hays?

  You know what I need, John?

• 28:37John Coogan?

  What do you need?

• 28:38Jordi Hays?

  Jensen's signature black leather jacket.

• 28:41John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:42Jordi Hays?

  His leather jacket by Tom Ford is being auctioned off. I'm so curious.

• 28:47John Coogan?

  What was the estimate?

• 28:47Jordi Hays?

  How this ended up with Sotheby's. Did Jensen pass it along? He needed a few.

• 28:51John Coogan?

  What happened here?

• 28:52Jordi Hays?

  He needed a few bucks and just said, like, you know, wanted to use it as a way to raise some capital? Or did someone else get their hands on it and take it to Sotheby's? Uh, I, so there, the estimate from Sotheby's is forty to sixty thousand dollars.

• 29:05John Coogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:05Jordi Hays?

  I just think this goes way higher. I think there's so many people that would love to, to own this just for the, the novelty of it. It's a very unique item that, uh, will be a part of history. And so forty to sixty just seems way too low.

• 29:22John Coogan?

  What's funny is a lot of the people that can afford this are like competing with Jensen and probably don't want to glaze him too much. Like, you don't see Mark Zuckerberg pulling this up, probably, because he's like, I'm, I'm gonna be the best. I'm gonna have the biggest market.

• 29:34Jordi Hays?

  I'm gonna spend the most money with you.

• 29:36John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 29:38Jordi Hays?

  I'm not just buying your GPUs, I'm buying your old clothes.

• 29:41John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 29:42Jordi Hays?

  I'm buying your old clothes.

• 29:43John Coogan?

  We gotta close out maybe with this, uh, with this Jensen meme from Andre. I wake up, not a loser, infinite money, uh, because Meta employees consumed seventy-three point three trillion AI tokens in a single month, which roughly costs two hundred and twenty-one million a month or around two point six five billion a year. I thought it was higher. That sounds low, based on what I thought they were spending in terms of tokens. Might even be higher, who knows? But, uh, it is, it is very interesting. Nvidia has also partnered with AI cloud firms with revenue sharing, taking circularity to a previously unseen level. I don't know. Uh, sale and leaseback, all sorts of these financial deals, these happen all the time in other industries.

• 30:28John Coogan?

  It's just sort of new seeing it in tech because we are in this industrial era. So, uh, very interesting news, but good news for Nvidia. Anyway, thank you for watching TVPN. We are off tomorrow. It is.

• 30:42Speaker 03

  Fourth of July, and so we're having a long weekend, folks. Leave us five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Sign up for our newsletter at TVBA.com.

• 30:53John Coogan?

  And we'll see you on Monday.

• 30:55Speaker 03

  Cortisol rising.

• 30:57John Coogan?

  Have a good one.

• 30:58Speaker 03

  We love you.

• 30:59John Coogan?

  Bye.