Jensen on Dwarkesh, Cursor x XAI, Netflix Stock Sinks | Diet TBPN

Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after. Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00John Coogan?

  Absolutely wild podcast between Nvidia's Jensen Huang and Dwarkesh Patel. So many clips, so much debate. We're going to kick it off with the question of whether or not Nvidia is a car. Let me start off with this vibe reel from Semi Analysis because it is a treat.

• 0:19Jordi Hays?

  Wait, and pause for a second. You know why I was asking you?

• 0:22John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 0:23Jordi Hays?

  Like what app you use to edit videos?

• 0:25John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 0:25Jordi Hays?

  It was to make this exact video. And then I saw this and I was like, oh, I need to make it.

• 0:29Speaker 02

  I don't, you're not talking to somebody who woke up a loser. And that loser attitude, that loser premise makes no sense to me. We are not, we're not a car. We are not a car.

• 0:42John Coogan?

  Such a great edit. It's absolutely, it's such a good vibe reel. And it's so funny because, I love to, this is Tokyo Drift.

• 0:56Jordi Hays?

  Very good.

• 0:57John Coogan?

  It's funny because it's this new type of vibe reel where the Semi Analysis team, obviously, they recontextualize the two clips and added the beat to get the video going. But that final edit with the cars sort of morphing together, like it goes from, there's a match cut, these are match cuts between one stick shift move and another, or one car drifting and then another car drifting. That takes a really long time. Somebody clearly made this video just because they're enthusiasts of Fast and the Furious. And then the Semi Analysis team was able to quickly recontextualize that to be about Jensen's answer on Nvidia's moat and the CUDA moat and what's happening with Nvidia. So let's go through this question

• 1:38John Coogan?

  because it's been, it's been humming for a while. And it's sort of bubbled up most recently because there was a whole bunch of news that Mythos might have been trained on Tranium, then maybe TPU, then maybe Blackwell, and it was sort of a mix. And it just feels like more and more of the AI labs are capable of making other Chipsets work in the early days. It was all about Nvidia. And now it feels like the incentives are really high to figure other options out. And that creates a different competitive dynamic. So we can run through my thoughts on this and then we can go into the geopolitical considerations as well, because that was another fascinating segment of the interview. So Jensen, the CEO of Nvidia, spent over 90 minutes, it was almost two hours when you

• 2:23John Coogan?

  include the ads too, in the ring with Dwarkesh Patel. It was electric and the key question, at least for the start, was whether or not Nvidia is a car. And I'm only half joking about that. It sort of was the key question. Nvidia has been the market leader for years. During the gaming boom, Nvidia was the gold standard for rendering PC graphics. There was always decent competition from AMD. But once the AI boom kicked off, the CUDA ecosystem significantly sped up development of AI systems and training of AI models. And for those who aren't familiar, CUDA is a programming model that enables GPUs to accelerate demanding workloads by parallelizing computation. So instead of needing to work on the very low level instruction sets, if you are a CUDA

• 3:05John Coogan?

  kernel engineer, CUDA engineer, you can access all the power of the GPUs very efficiently while staying up in the more mathematical AI research, more standard Python, C++ programming paradigms. You don't need to dip down too low, but it's getting easier to dip down lower and that's what we're seeing. So that created the CUDA mode because developers were way more productive and the biggest bottleneck to progress was allowing AI researchers to quickly test ideas and scale their experiments up to whole fleets of GPUs and eventually entire data centers. At the time, researchers really liked CUDA and really liked Nvidia and they did not want to have to spend hours and hours figuring out other hardware systems.

• 3:47John Coogan?

  They just wanted to run their tests and see if the model was getting better and continue to scale. But recently, the biggest cost center for AI labs flipped from researcher time, more or less, to compute capacity. And this creates a much larger economic incentive to figure out a way to drive down the cost of chips used to train AI models. I wrote about this back In on Tuesday, October 22 of last year. So I said, not every link in the supply chain of AI can be completely commoditized. Nvidia has an insane amount of power, having ramped full year revenue over the last three years from 27 billion to 60 billion to 130 billion. Absolutely insane top line revenue ramp at that scale.

• 4:32John Coogan?

  And that's why Jensen is so confident about how dominant this business is. It's the world's biggest company for a reason. It has been growing spectacularly at immense scale. And not only did they grow the top line, but net profit margin grew insanely. So it grew from 16% to 56%.

• 4:51Jordi Hays?

  You do that when you have pricing power and massive leverage. Because, you know, in this case, demand massively outstripping supply plus developer love and kind of just like.

• 5:01John Coogan?

  And I believe the forecast net margin was 70 something percent. We were hearing about 80% potentially. And so Nvidia, you know, the plan and the plan is still to make an incredible amount of profit off of these chips because they are incredibly valuable. But all the hyperscalers and the and the and the AI labs, they are sort of incentivized now to form a bit of an anti Nvidia alliance to commoditize the accelerator market and drive down those margins at least a little bit. And so today, the AI chip market is starting to look much less monopolistic. AI coding agents can make it easier to write software that works on non CUDA chip stacks. And the teams behind competing chips have plenty of resources and economic incentives to bring performance in line with Nvidia.

• 5:44John Coogan?

  Even if it's going to be a big hassle, even if you're going to need to spin up a team to get AMD or TPU working, it's going to be worth it because you're talking about billions and billions of dollars spent on chips. For the past few years, Nvidia.

• 5:55Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, another another example of like an instance where an AI lab had so much urgency that they were willing to spend whatever it took was Meta rebuilding like.

• 6:05John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 6:07Jordi Hays?

  They were willing to outspend pretty much any other lab on talent. Because they didn't have time to find a homegrown talent or go through a normal recruiting process, especially considering a lot of those engineers were like happy doing what they were doing.

• 6:20John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, the incentives flip when you get to this scale or the incentives just get so big, you can build a whole team for a specific thing, solve any problem. And so. For the past few years, Nvidia has sort of looked like SpaceX's launch program. It's incredible technology with very few viable alternatives. And so that creates great margins, as we've seen with SpaceX's launch capacity. And they control something like 90% of the launch market. While the products have not degraded, quite the opposite actually. Blackwell and Vera Rubin are incredibly powerful chips. They're clearly on the leading edge there. And they have an incredible amount of of supply chain guarantees from TSMC and across memory and all the other different pieces of supply chain.

• 7:04John Coogan?

  Like Nvidia is ready to make more chips. But increased competition makes the category look a little bit more like the car market than the rocket launch market. And so that, I think, is where Jensen is pushing back and saying, no, there's a lot more that we bring to the table with our customers that don't think of us like a car. This is not, you know, the difference between a Ford and a Toyota. They all sort of get you to the same place and you can swap one out. You can be driving a BMW one day, go to the dealer, turn it in for a Mercedes, and you're going to have a pretty

• 7:35Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, or the other, the other example that I was using with the team earlier was this idea of like, if you're, if you're a delivery company like FedEx and you have a lot of like Ford, Ford vans. And then Hyundai comes to you and says, hey, you've been spending like $50,000 per Ford van, but like, would you consider a Hyundai van?

• 7:55John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 7:55Jordi Hays?

  We'll, we'll sell it to you for $35,000. It's just as good. And it could be like mildly inconvenient for the company because like they're kind of used to using Ford. They maybe have like an internal team that does some maintenance. But when you start looking at that cost differential, it can start to get pretty interesting to say like, hey, we should, why don't we try out some Hyundai's? Let's like move over some of our routes to Hyundai's and like see how that goes. And they try it and they're like, hey, this actually, this works pretty well. Maybe there's like, you know, higher maintenance, but it actually like maths out.

• 8:26John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 8:26Jordi Hays?

  And like, we're going to actually start adding more Hyundai's to our overall fleet.

• 8:30John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 8:31Jordi Hays?

  And so Jensen's point. On the podcast is that like we're not, we're not selling cars, right? This is not like something like you can swap out.

• 8:39John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 8:40Jordi Hays?

  And Dwarkesh was obviously pushing, pushing back.

• 8:42John Coogan?

  And for a lot of companies swapping out Nvidia for TPU would be very difficult. Some workloads that Jensen focuses on, he says, we're not a tensor processing unit. We're an accelerator. There's a whole bunch of scientific computing workloads that work particularly well with Nvidia. The, the problem that

• 8:59Jordi Hays?

  And of course, Dwarkesh was just saying like, yeah, well, it's perfectly fine to have like a specialized chip for specialized workflows. Because the biggest companies in the world, the biggest buyers here have like a single type of workload that they're trying to do. And that's why they're using pure competitors.

• 9:15John Coogan?

  Yeah, because the AI build out does not seem to be slowing down as long as power can continue to be brought online. And data centers can continue to find towns that will approve of them. Demand for chips will presumably grow, but every chip designer and AI lab has to be praying that the net, that those net margins come down. How quickly will it happen? Very early to tell. The market did not react negatively to this back and forth, although the price of Nvidia has been basically flat since last August. And I think that's why Nvidia, Jensen is trying to sort of like reset on the narrative because it's possible that, you know, with the, there's a lot of movement up and down. They've been sort of flat. There's a desire to sort of like reset and, and recontextualize.

• 9:59Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, inference demand is scaling.

• 10:01John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 10:01Jordi Hays?

  In a very significant way.

• 10:02John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 10:03Jordi Hays?

  And the Nvidia stock price is relatively flat.

• 10:06John Coogan?

  Yeah, and there's, and since August, there's been so many different moments where fears of the AI bubble, fears of the products not finding product market fit. That revenue might stagnate. Like we've seen a ton of bullish signals for like AI demand broadly. Demand is there. And so if you're a supplier, you should also be going up. But there's been this overhang of what will happen to margins and market structure. And so that is what people are going back and forth on. Tyler, did you have anything else, thoughts on this?

• 10:35Speaker 03

  Personally, I think I probably am more on the Dwarkesh side where like, yeah, I mean, at some point, like, these margins are so high. There's so much opportunity here. We've seen that, like, actually, if you're a big lab, you know, it's a lot of resources.

• 10:45John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 10:46Speaker 03

  But you actually can just, like, train a model on a different architecture. You can serve them on a different architecture.

• 10:51John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 10:51Speaker 03

  Like, you actually can figure these things out. As models get better, you can go lower and lower on the stack.

• 10:56John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 10:56Speaker 03

  You can, you know, you can write the kernels.

• 10:58John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 10:59Speaker 03

  Semi autonomously. These things get faster and faster. And it's like, I'm probably much more on the Dwarkesh side.

• 11:04John Coogan?

  Yeah. It'll be interesting to see how Grok fits into this, the new CPU, integration between different pieces of the puzzle, like. And then also, Dwarkesh makes this point that the supply agreements that Nvidia has might be a bit of a moat for the next few years. While TSMC line time is so constricted.

• 11:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, but even then, like, you know, Jensen was saying that kind of supply constraints, this is like a two to three year problem. After that, like, you can just solve these things. Like, I don't know how to think about this because, you know, to me, it seems like, yeah, so much of the value of Nvidia is just, like, they have such an incredible relationship with TSMC.

• 11:36John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 11:36Speaker 03

  But if, and it's so valuable because of how constrained it is.

• 11:40John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 11:40Speaker 03

  But if that kind of constraint is maybe gonna, you know, go away to some extent.

• 11:44John Coogan?

  Yeah, TSMC?

• 11:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's what he says, like, that they're gonna increase, you know, they can build a new fab in whatever three years.

• 11:51Jordi Hays?

  I mean, the big, the big, the big takeaway from the conversation is like, you have one person who seems incredibly AGI pilled.

• 11:57John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 11:57Jordi Hays?

  Which is Dwarkesh.

• 11:58John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 11:58Jordi Hays?

  And then you have Jensen, who doesn't seem AGI pilled in that sense at all.

• 12:02John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:03Jordi Hays?

  Right? He, uh, Dwarkesh asks about, he was kind of getting it early on, the idea of like, will you be able to just like, prompt your way to Nvidia chips? He's like, you basically sell software.

• 12:14John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:15Jordi Hays?

  Um, and Jensen was basically like, no, I don't, I don't think that'll happen. And then, and then when you get to the whole geopolitical conversation too. Again, it's like, Dwarkesh is like, you're selling nukes. And Jensen is, in my view, like, I'm selling computers. And that, that was like, the big rift. It was like, these two kind of totally conflicting. Worldviews and it made for some very.

• 12:41John Coogan?

  Pay-per-view.

• 12:42Jordi Hays?

  It was a pay-per-view. It should have been a pay-per-view.

• 12:44John Coogan?

  Free Ram Krishnan summed it up pretty well. He said, "Every person here's reaction to the Jensen plus Dwarkesh podcast can be extrapolated directly from whether they believe in the Frontier Labs achieving short timelines for AGI/ASI. If you believe in the Labs achieving RSI and then AGI/ASI for some definition of all three, in the next few years, you're probably sympathetic to the frame Dwarkesh adopts. If not, you're probably more sympathetic to the arguments from Jensen." And so, we can go into the export controls next and talk about that. Metacritic Capital sort of summed up a little bit of why just Jensen's rhetoric and how he wasn't conceding a lot of things. Dean Ball said, "Dwarkesh Jensen reveals how inconsistent and unbattle-tested AI acceleration

• 13:29John Coogan?

  talking points are, especially when they're filtered through the prisms of corporate comms and mass politics. Strategically coherent accelerationism is possible," he says, "I try, but not currently prevalent." And Metacritic Capital says, "The problem is that Jensen doesn't concede anything. Compute spending going to the moon, one trillion revenue in sight, models keep getting better, no unemployment, software codes are good, other Western accelerators are bad, Chinese competitors are good, Nvidia makes token costs decline 90% per year, but Chinese compute scientists are capable of making all the necessary algorithm improvements." He also can't be AGI-pilled enough because at the end of the day, he is an intellectual property company in the business of sending a file to TSMC. I think it's part of Taiwanese culture to want to be loyal to all clients and don't have favorite winners. He doesn't want to betray his software co-customer. He has antitrust concerns.

• 14:13Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, he was making the bull case for software, which was that AI agents are going to use tools. So he's like, "There's going to be more users of software than ever."

• 14:23John Coogan?

  Which is something I'm somewhat sympathetic to, but yeah, it definitely.

• 14:27Jordi Hays?

  It's still very easy to take the counter.

• 14:30John Coogan?

  The flip side of that, yeah. Well, let's play the distilled recap from Dwarkesh Patel of the back and forth with Jensen on export controls. It's about four minutes and we'll watch this and then discuss, so.

• 14:42Speaker 04

  If Chinese companies and Chinese labs and Chinese government had access to the AI chips to train a model like Claude Mythos with these cyber offensive capabilities and run millions of instances of it with more compute, the question is, oh, is that a threat to American companies, to American national security?

• 14:58Speaker 02

  First of all, Methos was trained on fairly mundane capacity and a fairly mundane amount of it by an extraordinary company. And so the amount of capacity and the type of compute that it was trained on is abundantly available in China. And so you just have to first realize that chips exist in China. They manufacture 60% of the world's mainstream chips, maybe more. It's a very large industry for them. They have some of the world's greatest computer scientists, as you know. Most of the AI researchers in all of these AI labs, most of them are Chinese. They have 50% of the world's AI researchers. And so the question is, if you're concerned about them, considering all the assets they already have, they have an abundance of energy, they have plenty of chips, they got most of

• 15:43Speaker 02

  the AI researchers. If you're worried about them, what is the best way to create a safe world? Well, victimizing them, turning them into an enemy, likely isn't the best answer. They are an adversary. We want United States to win. Having a dialogue and having research dialogue is probably the safest thing to do. This is an area that is glaringly missing because of our current attitude about China as an adversary. It is essential that our AI researchers and their AI researchers are actually talking. It is essential that we try to both agree on what not to use the AI for. With respect to China, we want to have, of course, we want United States to have as much computing as possible. We're limited by energy, but you know, we got a lot of people working on that and we had to not make energy a bottleneck for our country.

• 16:28Speaker 02

  But what we also want is we want to make sure that all the AI developers in the world are developing on the American tech stack and making the contributions, the advancements of AI, especially when it's open source, available to the American ecosystem. It would be extremely foolish to create two ecosystems. The open source ecosystem, and it only runs on the Chinese tech, a foreign tech stack, and a closed ecosystem, and that runs on the American tech stack. I think that that would be a horrible outcome for the United States.

• 16:59Speaker 04

  I mean, I think the concern, going back to the flop difference in the hacking is, yes, they have compute, but there's estimates that because they're at seven nanometer, they don't have UVs because of chip making export controls. The amount of flops they're about to actually produce, they have like one tenth the amount of flops that the US has. And so with that, could they train eventually a model like Mythos? Yes, but the question is, because we have more flops, American labs are able to get to these level of capabilities first. And because Anthropic got to it first, they say, okay, we're going to hold on to it for a month. While all these American companies, we give them access to it, they're going to patch up all their vulnerabilities. And now we release it. Furthermore, if they, even if they train a model like this, the ability to deploy it at scale, you know, if you had a cyber hacker, it's much more dangerous if they have a million of them versus a thousand of them.

• 17:44Speaker 04

  So that inference compute really matters a lot. In fact, the fact that they have so many researchers who are so good is the thing that makes it so scary. Because what is it that makes those engineer researchers more productive is compute.

• 17:54Speaker 02

  We should always be first and we should always have more. But in order for that outcome for you to, what you described to be true, you have to take it to the extremes. They have to have no compute. And if they have some compute, the question is how much is needed? The amount of compute they have in China is enormous.

• 18:11Speaker 02

  I mean, you're talking about a country, it's the second largest computing market in the world. If they want to deploy, aggregate their compute, they got plenty of compute to aggregate.

• 18:20John Coogan?

  Very, very tense back and forth. Dean Ball says, it's a shame Jensen mostly fails here because the monoculture on export controls is bad. If you're a young AI policy researcher, trying to make a name for yourself, it's almost impossible to be taken seriously unless you are pro export controls. Monocultures are usually bad. And I am sympathetic to Dwarkesh's points there for sure, especially on the inference side. Even if models exist in both worlds, like having a whole bunch of, you know, good guy compute that can go and patch bugs while the amount of attackers is much smaller. It's just a matter of, you know, how many. You know, resources you have on each side. That's a great point.

• 19:03John Coogan?

  The only thing that they are like talking around is just Taiwan as a particular turning point and and how their various positions flow through to Taiwan policy and where the uh how China stance on Taiwan is something that I've always puzzled and I wish that both of them had articulated their uh sort of philosophy on actually war gaming out what export controls do to likelihood of of Taiwan uh intervention or blockade or anything like that. I don't exactly know. I've I've been trying to like work through it, but I don't have a complete thesis. But we've been debating it back and forth all day. I don't know if you have a strong take on any of this, Jordy.

• 19:43Jordi Hays?

  Uh, I appreciate Matt Zeitlin's point.

• 19:46John Coogan?

  What'd he say?

• 19:46Jordi Hays?

  I kind of appreciate that Jensen Huang seems relatively normal about non-business stuff compared to other tech founder CEO types, but then when it comes to Nvidia's actual operations, he's a complete sicko.

• 19:57John Coogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, I saw a couple takes around this that that he had like some very, very, very, very strong points. Uh, if you're deeper in the supply chain, I haven't, I I I couldn't uh really assess how he did on that, but some people were, uh, there were definitely people that were in uh Jensen's camp. Uh, it was, it was divided, which I think is why this went so viral. Jensen Huang and Dwarkesh today, most combative interview he's done in a while. The biggest regret not funding.

• 20:23Jordi Hays?

  Has there been a more combative interview ever with Jensen? It seems unlikely.

• 20:28John Coogan?

  I don't think so. There is, there is some funny details in here. Uh, apparently the Larry and Elon begged Jensen for GPUs at dinner story. That never happened. We absolutely had dinner. At no time did they beg for GPUs, uh, which is funny. Uh, I I wonder what that would happen. Dwarkesh posted uh tomorrow and it's him and Jensen standing next to each other and Alex Volkov said, hey, Dwarkesh, was this picture taken before or after the pod? Uh, because it does feel like it was a tense situation, although to both their credit, like uh Jensen, it felt like he loved being in the arena, asked, getting asked hard questions, like working through this. There's this back and forth where uh where Jensen's pushing back and Dwarkesh says, oh, I can drop it. And he says, you don't need to drop it. I'm I'm enjoying this. Like, like, let's, let's hash this out.

• 21:11John Coogan?

  And I thought that was very diplomatic and and and just good overall. Well, Intel is up on the news, up 4% today, 10% over the past five days, almost at all-time highs. I think we're very close to the 2,000 peak for Intel, which was also around where they were trading in 2021. $67 a share, $330 billion company. Clearly, with all of this backdrop and just the idea of more chips and maybe the CUDA ecosystem being something that you can work around. Can an American fab run by Intel produce a chip that's viable for an AI lab?

• 21:52John Coogan?

  It feels like increasingly, yes, that's certainly the argument that's being put forth by Dorakech. And it would be very exciting. I think it's something that everyone would support, an Intel resurgence. There's some news around TerraFab potentially getting involved. But first, let's start with the scoop from Grace K. over at Business Insider. She says, "Scoop Cursor plans to use XAI's infrastructure to train its Composer 2.5 coding model."

• 22:19Jordi Hays?

  Where's the golden scoop, Tyler?

• 22:21John Coogan?

  According to people familiar with the matter, Cursor will use tens of thousands of XAI's GPUs, they said. And we got a scoop for Grace K.

• 22:32Jordi Hays?

  This one's going to Grace. Grace, congratulations.

• 22:35John Coogan?

  You win the golden scoop of the day. Congratulations.

• 22:38Jordi Hays?

  Interesting to see, something we talked about probably midway through last year. XAI has shown a tremendous ability to, on the kind of infrastructure, data center side, spinning up a huge amount of compute very, very quickly, ahead of any timeline that any reasonable party would have probably expected. And demand hasn't exactly followed in the way that they would have liked. And so, opening that up to a company like Cursor, who has all the demand, and what they really need is their own model.

• 23:13John Coogan?

  Yeah. It was also interesting because... I don't know if it was thrown out as a potential project for other companies. I feel like MSL mentioned it at some point, maybe OpenAI. There was some talk of like, okay, if you're marshalling all this compute and you wind up with too much, like, what do you do then? And the idea of becoming a cloud provider, if you have a data center and everything.

• 23:35Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, that's been the big question of like, you know, with everything that SpaceX is doing and now TerraFab, they're going to be creating all of this capacity. Where's the demand for that capacity going to come from? Right? And so you could imagine a world in the future where if SpaceX has a bunch of space data centers, they open up that capacity to a bunch of companies other than just Elon Inc. businesses.

• 23:59John Coogan?

  So Grace says, "The setup effectively turns XAI into a kind of cloud provider by renting some of its GPUs to other countries, companies. XAI could start generating revenue from its massive infrastructure while still developing its own AI models. The arrangement could help the company offset the costs of building and operating data centers while also deepening ties with a startup that has access to valuable coding data." And so there could be some sort of trade deal going on. Ed Ludlow at Bloomberg has a report from the TerraFab. Musk's team is actively requesting price quotes and delivery timelines for a wide range of chip-making equipment, photo masks, substrates, etchers, deposition, cleaning, testing tools, according to sources.

• 24:40John Coogan?

  Elon Musk's lieutenants have reached out to chip industry suppliers for his envisioned TerraFab project. Remember, he was pictured with Lip Buteon from Intel, I think, last week. Early steps in an audacious and likely arduous attempt to break into the production of cutting-edge chips. That is a very, very tall order, but maybe there's never been a better time to break into the cutting-edge chip market, given that you don't need to, I mean, you sort of need to reinvent CUDA, but it's becoming easier, potentially. Well, there are two big releases from Anthropic and OpenAI today. Claude announced, Claude OPUS 4.7, our most capable OPUS model yet. It handles long-running tasks with more rigor, follows instructions more precisely,

• 25:23John Coogan?

  and verifies its own outputs before reporting back. You can hand off your hardest work with less supervision, they say. Very good score on Sui Bench Pro, 64.3%. Excited to test it. They say Opus 4.7 has substantially better vision. It can see images at three times the resolution and produce higher quality interfaces, slides and docs as a result.

• 25:43Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, I think the most notable thing here is you have a model, a model card that shows a model that's not publicly accessible.

• 25:51John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, they share the Mythos benchmark and so.

• 25:53Jordi Hays?

  Mythos, logging, Opus 4.7, just sitting there, but of course, unless you're one of the select companies, you won't be getting access to it at least yet.

• 26:04John Coogan?

  Well, OpenAI announced Codex for almost everything. It can use apps on your Mac, connect to more of your tools, create images, learn from previous actions, remember how you like to work and take on ongoing and repeatable tasks. With computer use on macOS, Codex can now use any app by seeing, clicking and typing with its own cursor. It runs in the background without taking over your computer, working on tasks like front-end iteration, app testing, or any workflow that doesn't expose an API. You can now generate and iterate on images with GPT Image 1.5 in Codex to create front-end designs, mockups, game assets, and more without leaving your workflow. Usage is included in your ChatGPT account, no API

• 26:48John Coogan?

  needed. Automations can now run in the same thread. Lots of updates here. And Thibault says, "Codex just got a lot more powerful. Computer use, in-app browser, image generation, editing, 90+ new plugins to connect everything, multi-terminal, SSH, lots and lots of stuff." So go give it a test. Go take it for a spin. OpenAI.com, of course. You can download it for macOS. The West creates the internet. Try nailing that jello to the wall. CCP nails it. The West creates LLMs. All right, try nailing this. And the CCP picks up a hammer. There's a piece in the Wall Street Journal opinion section, "AI is bound to subvert communism."

• 27:29John Coogan?

  This is a very contrarian take because people, at least with the internet, there was the perception of decentralization, permissionlessness, anonymity, a lot of things that felt very democratic. AI is very centralizing by default. This is the TL take of like, AI is communist and crypto is libertarian. And so, this is a pretty wild thing to argue, but you know.

• 27:55John Coogan?

  Read the read the opinion piece and see what they say. The the nail nailing Jello to a wall, I believe that's from the Clinton administration. The idea that the Internet would spread so widely that the Chinese Communist Party would not be able to control the population, everyone to be coordinating, it'd be sort of like an Arab Spring type moment, but of course, the firewalls went up, the surveillance happened, and nothing really changed, and the Communist Party seems stronger than ever. But this does sort of undergird a lot of what Dorash has been saying about the the risk of of China and having strong AI and stronger control over the population. It's always hard to get a read on exactly how things are rolling out in China. There's some people that seem to like it over there.

• 28:39John Coogan?

  Of course, Dorash took a whole trip to China and made it back OK, so it's not all doom and gloom, but it is a it's a tricky, tricky thing to argue, but we'll see. There's a ton of breaking news. The big one is Netflix.

• 28:52Jordi Hays?

  Reed Hastings.

• 28:53John Coogan?

  Reed Hastings is stepping down.

• 28:54Jordi Hays?

  Stepping off the board of Netflix, and the stock is down tremendously, but this is good.

• 29:01John Coogan?

  He's not stepping off the board. He's stepping off the board in June. He announced that he's stepping off the board. But yes, I mean, it's the same.

• 29:07Jordi Hays?

  No, but but but again, it's good because it's good for Reed specifically.

• 29:11John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 29:12Jordi Hays?

  Because it shows that people have confidence.

• 29:15John Coogan?

  Oh, sure, sure.

• 29:16Jordi Hays?

  In his vision. I would expect Netflix to make a quick recovery, but Reed is fantastic.

• 29:21John Coogan?

  Yeah, it's up 12%, 13% in the last month, down 8.5% overnight after hours, but we'll see where the stock settles.

• 29:29Jordi Hays?

  Alternative is a nightmare for Reed, because if he if he announced this, announced this, and the stock popped 20%, he was, you know, a handicap, handicapping the company.

• 29:39John Coogan?

  Yeah, and I mean, the flip side is that Ted Sarandos, it seems like he put on a master class over the last six months with the Paramount negotiations, not getting over his skis, the shareholders wound up really liking how that all penciled out, and so it seems like the company's in good hands, and all of the different strengths that Netflix has continue to show across advertising and subscriptions, and the big headline with

• 30:05John Coogan?

  Netflix is that they've kept their content budget essentially flat or slightly growing while they've grown subscriptions and revenue and top line very precipitously and very consistently, even at a time where they haven't needed to invest exponentially more money in content. Obviously, they spend a fortune on it, but it's not, it's not growing as fast as their revenue is growing, so their profits are growing, which is good news. Hastings' departure marks the end of an era for Netflix, which, under his leadership, transformed from a DVD by mail business to a juggernaut in subscription video streaming and disrupted Hollywood. He said, "My real contribution at Netflix wasn't a single decision," Hastings said in a statement. "It was a focus on member joy, building a

• 30:47John Coogan?

  culture that others could inherit and improve, and building a company that could be both beloved by members and wildly successful for generations to come." Well, we wish him the best on his next chapter, whatever he winds up doing. What an absolute run. And lots more stories to talk about, but we will be back with you on Monday at 11 a.m.

• 31:09Jordi Hays?

  It's been an honor and a privilege.

• 31:10John Coogan?

  And we'll see you soon.

• 31:11Jordi Hays?

  To be with you here today.

• 31:12John Coogan?

  Leave us five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Sign up for our newsletter, tbpn.com. Goodbye.

• 31:19Jordi Hays?

  Throwing flashbang.

• 31:20John Coogan?

  Throwing flashbang.