Samsung’s $70B Chip Bet, Apple Doing Nothing But Winning AI, Bezos’ New Fund | Diet TBPN

Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after. Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. TBPN is made possible by: Ramp - https://Ramp.com https://ramp.com/ AppLovin - https://axon.ai https://axon.ai/ Cisco - https://www.cisco.com https://www.cisco.com/ Cognition - https://cognition.ai https://cognition.ai/ Console - https://console.com https://console.com/ CrowdStrike - https://crowdstrike.com https://crowdstrike.com/ ElevenLabs - https://elevenlabs.io https://elevenlabs.io/ Figma - https://figma.com https://figma.com/ Fin - https://fin.ai https://fin.ai/ Gemini - https://gemini.google.com https://gemini.google.com/ Graphite - https://graphite.com https://graphite.com/ Gusto - https://gusto.com/tbpn Kalshi - https://kalshi.com https://kalshi.com/ Labelbox - https://labelbox.com https://labelbox.com/ Lambda - https://lambda.ai https://lambda.ai/ Linear - https://linear.app https://linear.app/ MongoDB - https://mongodb.com https://mongodb.com/ NYSE - https://nyse.com https://nyse.com/ Okta - https://www.okta.com https://www.okta.com/ Phantom - https://phantom.com/cash Plaid - https://plaid.com https://plaid.com/ Public - https://public.com https://public.com/ Railway - https://railway.com https://railway.com/ Restream - https://restream.io https://restream.io/ Sentry - https://sentry.io https://sentry.io/ Shopify - https://shopify.com/tbpn Turbopuffer - https://turbopuffer.com https://turbopuffer.com/ Vanta - https://vanta.com https://vanta.com/ Vibe - https://vibe.co https://vibe.co/ Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00John Coogan?

  Last time we had Mark Cuban on the show, we were debating ads in LLMs. And since then, we've gotten a bunch of data points about ads in LLMs. And I think that some of his takes have probably aged well. Some of our takes have probably aged well. It'll be an interesting time to reevaluate what's actually happening.

• 0:17Jordi Hays?

  I don't know.

• 0:17John Coogan?

  There's been a lot more points.

• 0:18Jordi Hays?

  I don't know, John.

• 0:19John Coogan?

  We just have more evidence.

• 0:19Jordi Hays?

  I said that ads would be fine.

• 0:21John Coogan?

  Well.

• 0:21Jordi Hays?

  And now the world is ending.

• 0:24John Coogan?

  Yes. Here's a white pill. Samsung is investing $70 billion to advance their fab capacity. They're getting back in the AI chips game. They've always been in the AI chips game. So, brief history of Samsung. You probably know them from the phones, from the TVs. They, of course, are a major player in HBM, high bandwidth memory. They are a massive company, over a quarter million employees. They're close to touching a trillion dollars in USD market cap. They pull in around 200 billion USD a year in revenue. Maybe 250 billion this year in revenue. Really good. All that's USD. I like to think in USD because I'm an American. They're the global leaders in memory and OLED displays as well.

• 1:09John Coogan?

  So, a lot of the displays that you see in other electronics, even if it has a different brand name, it's still Samsung actually making that OLED display. But they're second in smartphones to the iPhone and Apple. And they're second in the semiconductor foundry business to TSMC. Semiconductors still make up 30 to 40% of their business. And they supply HBM to Nvidia for the H100 and Blackwell systems. So, it's not like they're sitting out the AI bull market. They are doing great. They are definitely participating. They're incredibly important in the AI build out. But if TSMC is bottlenecked and TSMC is sort of a risk off, and they're not going to be guiding to insane capex numbers while every American hyperscaler is, well, that creates an opportunity for Samsung. And so Samsung is stepping up and they're announcing that,

• 1:54John Coogan?

  hey, we're going to put another 70 billion to work on this particular business. So Tesla has been working with Samsung on the foundry side in AI for a while. So Samsung's never really been on the frontier with a direct competitor to the H100 or the Blackwell chip. That's been more of like AMD's game and AMD also fads at TSMC. So there hasn't really been this neck and neck battle between TSMC and Samsung. But it's like you can do AI inference on a Samsung chip. And we know that because Tesla went to Samsung years ago and said, we need a chip that can take in pictures from the road. Decide where the lines are and decide.

• 2:30Jordi Hays?

  They want their chips with the dip.

• 2:31John Coogan?

  They want their chips with the dip and how Samsung does too.

• 2:34Jordi Hays?

  That's all you know.

• 2:35John Coogan?

  And so the FSD system, if you have a Tesla, you might be familiar with like HW3, hardware 3. That has been deployed into millions of cars and it was fabbed on Samsung's 14 nanometer process, which is a lagging node. We're not in the 3 nanometer, the crazy frontier stuff, but it's working and it's on the road. And according to a US regulatory probe, there were 3.2 million vehicles, Teslas, on the road in America with FSD systems that were basically all running Samsung chips inside. Now, to be clear, Tesla, just like any foundation model lab company, they have training and then they also have inference. They're a little bit different than many of the labs

• 3:19John Coogan?

  that you know and love because they do training in a data center using what's called the Dojo chip and that is fabbed at TSMC. So they train the system, they take all the data in from every Tesla camera, every road, all the information that they have. Every time that there's a disengagement, that's feedback to the reinforcement learning system. It says, hey, we were in FSD mode, but then someone grabbed the wheel or someone stepped on the brakes. You made a mistake. Understand what happened to get you to that point where you made that mistake. And so that, all that data gets collected into Tesla data center, runs on these Dojo chips. They do the training and then they deploy the model onto the Samsung chips in the actual cars. So with the backdrop of Nvidia's massive GTC news cycle, they've

• 4:00John Coogan?

  done so much press around GTC and so many different launches, you know that Nvidia is just going to suck a lot of the air out of the semiconductor discussion this week.

• 4:09Jordi Hays?

  Out of the clean room.

• 4:10John Coogan?

  Out of the clean room, yes, which is recycling all of the air every three seconds or something like that.

• 4:14Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, but I think this is like particularly important, especially this morning. The, I guess the CCP put something out in the last 24 hours, basically saying, hey, Taiwan is going to have an energy crisis due to the broader global energy crisis.

• 4:29John Coogan?

  So we need to reunify peacefully.

• 4:31Jordi Hays?

  There's an opportunity for peaceful reunification.

• 4:33John Coogan?

  But peaceful reunification, even if it was completely peaceful and all the Taiwanese people just say, hey, we want to be part of China and they all vote for it democratically. That's going to be rough for the American chip buying industry. And so having another... Chip on the board metaphorically to make physical chips is probably a good thing. So yeah, Samsung's been doing well over the last five days. Stock's up 11% during a time when the NASDAQ is down 2.2% and geopolitical tensions continue to rise. The compute bottleneck, we know it's important. We've been discussing this constantly and it's going to be very constraining over the next few years. So every increase in capex in the supply chain is a step in the right direction. And so Samsung gets the first gong hit.

• 5:22John Coogan?

  Congratulations, Doug, over at Samsung on making, making a big bet.

• 5:27Jordi Hays?

  Cursor is out with Composer 2.

• 5:29John Coogan?

  Composer 2.

• 5:30Jordi Hays?

  It is frontier level at coding, priced at 50 cents per million input tokens and two and a half dollars per million output tokens. It's also, they have a fast version. They say we're able to significantly improve the model quality and cost to serve. These quality improvements come from our first continued pre-training round, providing a far stronger base to scale our RL.

• 5:54John Coogan?

  It's not one of these graphs that's just like, oh, look, we made some arbitrary X and Y axes and like, we're in the top right corner, of course, because the axes are like good and cool.

• 6:04Jordi Hays?

  On TBN, TBN bench, like technology podcasts publish at least three hours of content every week.

• 6:12John Coogan?

  Yes, yes.

• 6:13Jordi Hays?

  Naturally, naturally, we are.

• 6:15John Coogan?

  Right at the top.

• 6:16Jordi Hays?

  Right at the top. And it's actually, there's no one else on there.

• 6:19John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 6:19Jordi Hays?

  But.

• 6:20John Coogan?

  But yeah, I mean, this seems fair. It is a little bit odd to read this because the cost, the cost is on the X axis and it's inverted. So the further you are to the right, the cheaper you are, which makes sense because people associate an X and Y graph with you want to be in the top right quadrant and they certainly are. And it does seem like in terms of this Pareto frontier, you want to be on the frontier. You want to be pushing out across every single curve. Maybe if you are interested in. Sparing no expense, you'll go with the GPT 5.4 high or medium model and you can align cursor to GPT. I'm sort of surprised that Opus is not doing as well on Cursor Bench.

• 7:05John Coogan?

  That feels surprising based on the general vibes around Opus 4.6 generally, but Cursor has specific needs for specific customers. And I don't know, what else do you think is going on here?

• 7:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, the cost is really big. Like, this is basically like 10x cheaper than Opus. So I think also Cursor has kind of been like, not really a dark horse, like everyone knows about it, but in the coding race, it's like, everyone's like, okay, there's Codex versus Claude Code.

• 7:30John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 7:30Speaker 02

  If you imagine that Claude Code and Codex are kind of like these environments for getting a ton of like really good data for training coding models, like Cursor has had that for way, way longer than OpenAI or Anthropic.

• 7:40John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 7:41Speaker 02

  So you should imagine that, like, at least, you know, in the near term, like, they actually have like really, really good data that they can, you know, train these good models on. And obviously, like, this is a very specific model. They've said it, like, you're not going to write poems with this model. It's this very, like, specific, almost like point solution model where it's just coding. Don't listen to them, Tyler. Write a poem with the model. Poem bench.

• 7:59John Coogan?

  Poem bench. Yeah, I would be interested to know, like, how many sacrifices were made because it's at a certain point, like, I remember talking to an AI researcher, actually a semiconductor, who was saying that, like, he actually thinks, he actually does believe that importing, like, the Odyssey and, like, Homeric epics is key to humanoid robots learning to walk.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I think, like, if you look back at just like the general history of, like, machine learning, AI, like, the lesson is that, like, big general models always beat these small, specific models.

• 8:35John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 8:35Speaker 02

  But i- if you kind of zoom in on the time scale, like, you can still train GLM, some open source model, on a very specific task, like accounting or something, and you can, like, hill climb, and you can actually make it better than the frontier models right now.

• 8:46John Coogan?

  At that specific thing. And especially at cost.

• 8:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:49John Coogan?

  Especially at cost.

• 8:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yes, yeah, very much so. But like, on the long term, if you zoom out, what actually went here, it seems like it's basically always going to be these big, you know, general models, but...

• 8:58John Coogan?

  And I wonder, I wonder if that's true. I mean, we talk about this a lot, where the big general model outperforms the smaller model, but...

• 9:06John Coogan?

  At the limit, like if you were to think about like a Python if statement, just like flow control that is truly deterministic, if you piped the same question of like the if statement, like is this number bigger than this number, you pipe that into 5.4, it's going to get it right all the time. It's going to be very expensive compared to an if statement, which takes like no compute whatsoever. But the if statement is 100% accurate.

• 9:29Jordi Hays?

  Legendary poster sent cop says all S H I T S and giggles on that headline until Anthropic or OpenAI decide to cut off their access to Cursor, referencing the Bloomberg article, Cursor is taking on Anthropic and OpenAI with a new AI coding model.

• 9:45John Coogan?

  Would that matter? Like at this point, if they have Composer 2, and it's a small model, but it's good at writing code, and it performs well on Cursor Bench, and the Cursor users are satisfied with the Composer 2 model, and they do, Cursor does get their access cut off, and when you install Cursor, you roll it out to your organization, you just get Composer 2, and you know what? It's, you know, maybe there's taste that would pull you towards.

• 10:11Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, we're just saying, at this point right now, I don't think we have any visibility into like, how much of Cursor's revenue right now is tied to using OpenAI or Anthropic models. George says, I'm hearing tons of complaints from Cursor customers at enterprise companies, a silent change, but almost all models Cursor uses behind max mode. Devs who used to manage to spread out monthly credits over a month, see all of it used up in one to two days.

• 10:35John Coogan?

  Oh, interesting.

• 10:36Jordi Hays?

  Are furious and switching.

• 10:38John Coogan?

  It does feel like there's a little bit of like an economic war here.

• 10:40Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, and this is what came up earlier this month around the labs sort of subsidizing.

• 10:47John Coogan?

  Yeah, you know who's.

• 10:48Jordi Hays?

  They're not, they're not in an easy position, but they're such a talented team.

• 10:51John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 10:52Jordi Hays?

  Nikita says, we're rolling out summaries for articles now. Just tap the summarize button if you want to know if it's worth your time to read it.

• 10:58John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 10:59Jordi Hays?

  And, yeah, it's basically Grok, turn this into a regular tweet. I am excited about the listen button. I've had this, you know, on my commute, there's so many moments where I'm like. I wish I could just have somebody read this article.

• 11:12John Coogan?

  I actually wound up doing this with a number of Will Minnitis long form essays. I would copy them, put them into 11 Reader from 11 Labs and have it read it to me in sort of a

• 11:23Jordi Hays?

  A silly voice.

• 11:24John Coogan?

  A silly voice. It was a good time.

• 11:25Jordi Hays?

  Well, I was trying, I was actually trying to use Grok in, I was trying to use Grok in the X app to just take an article, paste it into Grok and say, hey, can you read this to me? And it said, cannot find the post.

• 11:37John Coogan?

  This is, this is a response to, you know, every article people would post, people would always say, Grok, summarize this. And now there's just a button. I recently learned that you can only ask Grok, like at Grok, is this true? You can only do that if you're paying for X. Sort of underrated how well X has seemingly, I don't know how big the subscriber base is, but that was a crazy idea to have a paid social network.

• 12:04Jordi Hays?

  I think it's because people are, people are deeply addicted to X.

• 12:09John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 12:09Jordi Hays?

  It is very valuable to them to be on there, to participate.

• 12:14John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 12:14Jordi Hays?

  And the paid functionality, the way that it was marketed and the way that it generally worked was like, you were going to have a bad time on X. Like if X was valuable to you and you didn't pay the $10 a month, it was going to be like significantly less valuable to you. Probably, you know, you might, you might, depending on what kind of business you're running or what you use X for, it might be the equivalent of like losing thousands of dollars a month of value, or you could just pay the $10.

• 12:38John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 12:39Jordi Hays?

  So it was a good trade.

• 12:39John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 12:40Jordi Hays?

  But.

• 12:40John Coogan?

  It was also just, it was weird how the targeting never seemingly got dialed to the point where you could actually target the CEOs of companies who were on X. Like, I mean, you see Travis Kalanick on X, like replying to things. It's like, he's raising money, he's growing a business. Like, there's a lot of value in advertising to him, uh, because he's going to be. Picking a corporate card soon, or he probably already has, or it might be in that market. He might be picking a payroll suite. Like, there's all these things where if you could deliver that to that audience, it would be incredibly valuable and the CPM should be like through the roof. But I think for privacy reasons and for variety of other reasons and sort of like, like really monetizing that long tail has been very difficult across every platform.

• 13:24John Coogan?

  So they've just gone with scale and the products that have sold the most on social networks have been very broadly marketed. The criticism that we saw from the Oscars is always like YouTube ads are generic. It's just like for a pillow or like injury or like something that applies to every single person. But there's always this like hyper-targeted opportunity there.

• 13:43Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, the other, the other thing is, is the paid program with X has seemingly worked in that we know a lot of people that happily pay and have no plans to churn. But it would be a failure in the context of like meta-scale, right? I think the last reported number that I saw was something like one to one and a half million paid subs at $10 a month.

• 14:05John Coogan?

  Oh, on X?

• 14:06Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, so you're talking about somewhere in the range of 100 to 200 million of like ARR. If Zuck could launch a product like that, he would just wind it down, right? Reels went from zero to 50 billion of run rate in like a handful of years, right? That's what, that's what a home run looks like. And so I think it makes sense for X, but it certainly is not a home run from a, you know, consumer application standpoint, and they still need the, you know, the overall business.

• 14:31John Coogan?

  Olivia Moore said, "A big story that most people are missing in the AI race for the consumer, ChatGPT versus Claude, is ads. Right now, most consumer AI revenue is coming from power users who are willing to pay high subscription costs. This currently skews positive for products like Claude, but this will not be the end state. Google makes $460 per user per year in the United States, mostly on ads. I didn't know that their ARPU was so high. Meta makes around 250. I mean, I guess those Google ads are really, really valuable and it's so intent-driven that it makes sense. ChatGPT's ad-based ARPUs will be even higher as they will ultimately have deeper, more frequent user engagement, even at the $460 level monetizing everyone in the US via." Ads is one hundred and fifty two billion in annual revenue.

• 15:14John Coogan?

  By contrast, if you're able to monetize even five percent of the population at two hundred dollars a month subscription, which is a stretch, that's only forty billion. That's a that's actually a crazy difference because two hundred dollars a month subscription is is like super high like, you know, you're talking twenty times like Netflix or something else that's, you know, uh, premium and like really important.

• 15:34Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, the two hundred dollar subscription at the time was crazy.

• 15:37John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 15:37Jordi Hays?

  But even at that point, some of the people that were more AI pill generally were like, oh, it's actually possible that someday you could spend twenty thousand dollars a month.

• 15:45John Coogan?

  I I I was like, give me the twenty thousand dollar monthly. So she says, I suspect this will be even more drastic outside of the United States where users are even less willing to pay or directly pay for subscriptions. And the earliest data from a very small rollout shows chat G P ads are already outperforming that in in effectiveness. Just gets better over time. So, uh, interesting. This is an interesting story. This is an interesting story.

• 16:06Jordi Hays?

  Apple is way behind in A I and still making a fortune from it. Let's see.

• 16:11John Coogan?

  begs the question, are they actually behind?

• 16:14Jordi Hays?

  It's A I revenue is set to top one billion this year, reassuring investors wary of rivals' sky-high spending.

• 16:20John Coogan?

  And keep in mind, this is.

• 16:21Jordi Hays?

  Here showing gross revenue from Gen A I apps as well as Apple's commission. So.

• 16:28John Coogan?

  Look at this. The beginning of twenty twenty five was really the boom of Gen A I app growth. Four hundred million. Is this is this monthly app store revenue? Wow. They're really cooking. And then and then sort of a flat line.

• 16:42Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, it's so in so interesting that that, uh, it actually dropped.

• 16:46John Coogan?

  Well, we did read that article a few days ago about how Apple has been, uh, pushing back against some of the vibe coding apps. And there's this question about, you know, where are the bounds? Obviously, Apple's had pretty strict app store rules around adult content and, you know, what else you can do. Even just the app reconstituting itself, pushing changes because they want to review every line of code that goes in the app store. If someone's pushing ten, twenty, thirty thousand lines of code a day, that's a lot of code for Apple to review. It's gonna slow things down. So that could be a little bit of what what we're seeing. Maybe they've capped out on their ability to review all the vibe coded apps that are flooding the App Store.

• 17:27Jordi Hays?

  Apple's on pace to surpass one billion in AI revenue this year, a tidy sum that demonstrates the company's AI advantage even as it struggles to deliver an AI strategy of its own. Siri chatbot is still weak by modern AI standards. What Apple does have that the other AI players don't is a dominant position making devices. However, however fancy OpenAI, Google, Anthropic and XAI make their chatbots, iPhones are still a primary way to deliver them to customers. That means they typically pay the App Store tax roughly thirty percent of subscription fees in the first year and fifteen percent a year thereafter, though rates vary. Gen AI apps paid Apple nearly nine hundred million dollar in App Store fees in twenty twenty five, almost a billion of revenue and very, very, very little capex. Three fourths of the revenue Apple rakes in from Gen AI apps in its App Store come from ChatGPT.

• 18:11John Coogan?

  Oh.

• 18:11Jordi Hays?

  Next at about five percent is XAI's Grok. There we go, Grok.

• 18:16John Coogan?

  Fucking. I mean, there's so many different like funnels. They did the essay competition. They did the the video competition. And I've I've talked to people that are just people that are in the Apple ecosystem. They're like in the Tesla ecosystem. So they're like, yeah, I talked to Grok on my way to work. I I'm not kidding.

• 18:34Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, Grok in the iPhone App Store is that did twelve million last month.

• 18:38John Coogan?

  Yeah. And I know I know like the the true like AI heads will be like Grok's behind on this benchmark or model or whatever. Tyler, is that a correct characterization?

• 18:48Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, Grok did more revenue. Grok did more revenue last month than it than Claude in the iPhone App Store.

• 18:54John Coogan?

  I've started having conversations with, I mean, I'm using ChatGPT, but I wanted to just, I I wanted to get up to speed on Taiwan and the the the just the like, what was the the reason for the original civil war and stuff? And so I was just having a conversation back and forth. At no point was I like, oh, I really needs to be like, you know, GPT five point four pro. It's like, these are things that exist just like with one search to Wikipedia or one search to any, it's probably baked into the weights of three point five. So like, if I'm just going to be like chatting with someone who's like reasonably smart, like I would say Grok is there. And so what do you think?

• 19:31Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, but you like, you could be talking to someone who's really, really.

• 19:35John Coogan?

  No, like not if you're asking like basic, basic knowledge retrieval questions that like that like any model is gonna one, one shot and just be.

• 19:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you're just describing stuff that you could just like actually Google.

• 19:45John Coogan?

  But I can't Google via voice in my car on the drive. And for someone who's driving a Tesla and has a Grok integration right there, they're just like, sure. Like this is great.

• 19:54Speaker 02

  Okay. Yeah, that's fair. But like, I don't think those people have actually tried like GPT 5.4 Pro. It's so good.

• 20:02John Coogan?

  It is, it is good, but it's slow. And truthfully, like you can fire off the exact same query to 5.4 Pro and 5.4 and 5.4. 5.4 fast, fast. And, and if the query is simple enough, the answer will be exactly the same. Because if I ask, if I ask 5.4, 5.4 extended thinking, like what is the capital of California? And it thinks for 10 minutes and it just tells me Sacramento.

• 20:33Speaker 02

  See, you.

• 20:34John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 20:34Speaker 02

  There you go. That's why you need to think a lot of people.

• 20:36John Coogan?

  I told you, I run my life on GPT 2. I hallucinate a lot, but.

• 20:42Speaker 02

  People have said I have the mind of GPT 2.

• 20:45John Coogan?

  It's true. It's true. Anyway, let's continue. Apple's revenue from generative AI apps rose from about 35 million in January to a high of 100 million in August.

• 20:57Speaker 02

  Do nothing when.

• 20:59John Coogan?

  Do nothing when. Sales have fallen from their peak, partly because chat GPT downloads have declined, according to the data. As a proportion of Apple's total sales, $1 billion is small, yet Gen A apps are, Gen AI apps are the growth driver for Apple's services business, which investors have focused on in recent years because it has grown faster than device sales and boasts higher profit margins. Apple's dominant share at the top of the smartphone market affords it another luxury. Time to get its own AI strategy right. So they're making money while they figure everything else out. Apple's AI plans, plan runs counter to strategies of competitors that are spending hundreds of billions of dollars on chips and data centers to build frontier language models.

• 21:40John Coogan?

  Apple is spending a fraction of that, aiming instead to use all of the personal information people store on their iPhones, together with the chips that it designs itself to power an on-device AI strategy. If they can act as a toll road for providers of AI, then they'll probably end up looking good long-term for not having the big capex overhang. I have to imagine that Apple is not capturing. Any revenue from enterprises, developers, Claude Code, Codex, any of those developers, they're probably not, even if they, even if they are winding up using like a ChatGPT subscription in Codex, they're probably setting that new subscription up on desktop.

• 22:21Jordi Hays?

  It's a toll road on, on the, on the actual.

• 22:23John Coogan?

  Yeah, but it's a toll road on consumer, which is, consumer sales. All the more reason to get into ads, honestly, because Apple does not tax those.

• 22:31Jordi Hays?

  And AI is exciting for Apple because they need, they need a new product that they can just randomly bill you like $2.99.

• 22:38John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 22:38Jordi Hays?

  Anytime they need a cat, like some additional cash.

• 22:42John Coogan?

  $2.99?

• 22:42Jordi Hays?

  Like, don't, don't you get just random bills from Apple, like here and there?

• 22:47John Coogan?

  $2.99? Like $2.99?

• 22:49Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, like I, I feel like every time I check my email, it's like, Apple has charged you like some random amount for some, for some subscription. Uh, in other news.

• 22:59John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 23:00Jordi Hays?

  Rolls Royce has scrap plans to go all electric by 2030 as, quote, drivers prefer V12 engines. Would you look at that?

• 23:09John Coogan?

  Look at.

• 23:10Jordi Hays?

  I mean, and this is just a total shock, total shock.

• 23:13John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:14Jordi Hays?

  Total shock.

• 23:15John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:15Jordi Hays?

  Drivers totally had to experience, you know, being forced, EVs forced upon them for the last few years to know that they, they preferred, uh, combustion engines after all. Of course, I'm kidding.

• 23:27John Coogan?

  Elon has been saying the roads to reveal will blow your mind. If it has a V12.

• 23:32Jordi Hays?

  We've been, we've been.

• 23:33John Coogan?

  People are going to be going crazy. If he drops a V12, that would completely break the internet.

• 23:39Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 23:40John Coogan?

  It'd be, it'd be incredible.

• 23:41Jordi Hays?

  Let's talk about this Tesla that you were following yesterday.

• 23:44John Coogan?

  Oh, yes. Did you drop this in the chat already? I sent it to you. Oh, no, we, we, we shouldn't, we shouldn't, we shouldn't share the actual picture. I saw a Tesla that was a very funny mix of, it had the anti Elon club on it, but also an 1199 license plate. And it was a plaid and it just like mixed every possible political ideology.

• 24:03Jordi Hays?

  And, and it had a vanity plate.

• 24:05John Coogan?

  It was very sci-fi.

• 24:06Jordi Hays?

  Sci-fi. So it was mixing like, I do want to go to Mars.

• 24:09John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 24:09Jordi Hays?

  But not with Elon.

• 24:10John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 24:11Jordi Hays?

  The license plate basically said, beam me up.

• 24:13John Coogan?

  Beam me up.

• 24:14Jordi Hays?

  So they want to go to Mars, but not with Elon. They support.

• 24:17John Coogan?

  They have an incredible amount of disposable income based on the trim level.

• 24:20Jordi Hays?

  They enjoy high trim levels, but they, they, they do not agree with Elon's actions.

• 24:25John Coogan?

  Well, maybe they work for a rival AI lab or something. And so they they're extremely sci fi pill, but they just don't like they they just they just feel like they're competing with XAI.

• 24:36Jordi Hays?

  California has now spent over a hundred million dollars on a new bridge to nowhere. It is a wildlife bridge, which I have driven by hundreds of times. I've been seeing it. I've been experiencing the traffic that it causes. I'm not against the concept of a wildlife bridge. In fact, I think it's fantastic.

• 24:58John Coogan?

  It does feel like in a concrete jungle, this is beautiful.

• 25:02Jordi Hays?

  Totally.

• 25:02John Coogan?

  This has a lot of opportunity to actually improve the visual aesthetics of this particular part of the state.

• 25:09Jordi Hays?

  Caleb Hammer says, bro, this state cannot be real.

• 25:12John Coogan?

  Isn't Caleb Hammer?

• 25:13Jordi Hays?

  It's very real.

• 25:14John Coogan?

  Isn't Caleb Hammer, he's like a finance?

• 25:17Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, he's got like the the number one.

• 25:19John Coogan?

  He's like the one person you'd come to to be like, should I spend a hundred million dollars on a bridge?

• 25:22Jordi Hays?

  And it's actually it's actually quite a bit more than a hundred at this point. And the funny thing is like, it's just kind of a bridge, but it doesn't it's it's lacking the entrances to the bridge.

• 25:32John Coogan?

  I feel like if they had built just like even just a little bit of wood to like like smooth it out so that it looks like there's at least going to be start of a of a of a of a ramp to get on the bridge, like the bridge looks solid, the actual center part looks solid. It doesn't feel that hard to finish this bridge. I'm I'm optimistic that this gets done in the next hundred years, like tops.

• 25:53Jordi Hays?

  Apparently Colorado built a built a wildlife bridge for a low cost of fifteen million dollars.

• 25:59John Coogan?

  Oh, that's not bad.

• 26:00Jordi Hays?

  Like functionally, something very, very similar. The interesting thing is apparently the bridge is is in some part for cougars.

• 26:08John Coogan?

  Cool.

• 26:09Jordi Hays?

  And the wild thing is like on one side of the bridge, you have a bunch of like residential homes. And on the other side, you have a bunch of cougars. And so they're now gonna the cougars are gonna be able to go hang basically hang in all the backyards. So we'll see how this goes, but I'm I'm excited for this to be finished up.

• 26:27John Coogan?

  What else is Anthropic doing there? Hiring for a policy manager who will be in charge of chemical weapons and high yield explosives. This reads like. You're going to be building high-yield explosives, which sounds like an annual job posting, but it is in fact for a policy manager who will be hopefully stopping people from.

• 26:45Jordi Hays?

  No, no, no. I read this as somebody whose job it is to decide how Claude is used to create chemical weapons and high-yield explosives.

• 26:54John Coogan?

  I think it's probably like this person decides like where's the edge. If you're asking like, okay, I have a firework and I want to make sure it doesn't go off. Like, should I, you know, throw in the trash or put in the recycling or take it to a special place? Like Claude should answer that. But if you go to it and you ask it like, how do I build a C4 or something like that? Like, there's all these like policy edges where if you're talking about Counter-Strike and you say like, let's plant the bomb, it shouldn't flag that as, okay, you're actually trying to plant a bomb. It's like, no, you're asking about a video game. We know how to interpret that appropriately. But there needs to be like a human in the loop to decide like where that frontier is and where that particular territory is.

• 27:35Jordi Hays?

  Martin Scrawley.

• 27:36John Coogan?

  What's he say?

• 27:37Jordi Hays?

  He's coming on Monday for the great debate, the great peptide debate says, good music is the last mile of AI. And Lil Wayne has some thoughts on AI music. Let's play this clip.

• 27:47John Coogan?

  Let's play this two-minute clip.

• 27:49Speaker 03

  How you handle AI in this business now?

• 27:51Speaker 04

  Challenge, the challenge.

• 27:53Speaker 03

  Bro, this is wild.

• 27:54Speaker 04

  I love it. AI is a better thing. I love that AI is what it is.

• 27:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:58Speaker 04

  Because, man, I love to be able to stand right next to whoever AI is, he, she, they, whatever, or whatever AI is, stand right next to them and I'm still better.

• 28:10Speaker 04

  So I'm gonna keep telling you what you do again?

• 28:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:12Speaker 04

  You're gonna run your listeners? I do this, I do that.

• 28:18Speaker 04

  So I love it. I love the challenge of it. The first time I seen somebody was, my friends was a little worried. They was like, man, bro, they got this AI stuff where you can just ask it to do, give you a verse like Lil Wayne. And so I did it. I said, let me have a verse. It gave me her best shot.

• 28:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:33Speaker 04

  I did it on a couple of devices. Asked her to give me one and they are, you suck.

• 28:40Speaker 03

  I fuck with that.

• 28:43John Coogan?

  AI is another.

• 28:44Speaker 03

  Beanie Siegel, I think he had to start using it because he like was losing his voice a little bit.

• 28:49Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, another rapper to mog.

• 28:50John Coogan?

  Basically, that's his take. So funny.

• 28:53Jordi Hays?

  That's great. There is some breaking news that we do got to talk about. Jeff Bezos in talks to raise a hundred billion for AI manufacturing fund. The Amazon founders traveled to the Middle East, Singapore and fundraising after it linked to Project Prometheus.

• 29:05John Coogan?

  That is incredible.

• 29:07Jordi Hays?

  Very, very exciting.

• 29:09John Coogan?

  Breaking news. Advance talks, I don't care if it's just in there, it's talks, I'm hitting the.

• 29:14John Coogan?

  Congratulations to Jeff Bezos.

• 29:17Jordi Hays?

  It's meeting with some of the world's largest asset managers to raise funds for the project. A few months ago, he traveled to the Middle East to discuss the new fund with sovereign wealth representatives. It's being described as a manufacturing transformation vehicle. I am absolutely.

• 29:32Speaker 02

  Going up against TK, right?

• 29:33John Coogan?

  Oh, maybe.

• 29:34Jordi Hays?

  I mean, TK is not as directly focused on manufacturing, like this is something I asked.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  Vehicle, right?

• 29:40Jordi Hays?

  No, no, he's saying manufacturing transportation, like it's a vehicle, a fund for transforming manufacturing.

• 29:45John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like an investing vehicle.

• 29:48Jordi Hays?

  It's aiming to buy companies in major industrial sectors such as chip making, defense, aerospace. It would dwarf the size of some of the world's largest bio funds and rival SoftBank's a hundred billion dollar fund. I gotta wonder, how much, how much do you think, uh, how much do you think Jeff is pitching in himself? He's like, I'm good, I'm good for thirty, you know, something in that range.

• 30:07John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 30:08Jordi Hays?

  But this is such a white pill. Basically, we need to reindustrialize America.

• 30:12John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 30:12Jordi Hays?

  We're not going to do it by just copying everything from the past. There's some element of transformation that needs to happen as well as new efforts.

• 30:20John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 30:20Jordi Hays?

  This is tremendous news.

• 30:22John Coogan?

  Yeah. And I mean, there, there has been like a venture capital boom in reindustrialization, but most of the funds that we talked to that are in that category are fifty million, couple hundred million, certainly nothing at this scale. And this has got to be, uh, incredible news for, uh, the, the founders that we talked to that are part of the reindustrialization effort. Thank you for watching. Leave us five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

• 30:47Jordi Hays?

  It's been an honor to be with you today.

• 30:49John Coogan?

  And we will see you tomorrow. Goodbye.