Siri needs an App, OpenAI Acquires health startup Torch, Claude Cowork reactions | Diet TBPN

Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after. Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. TBPN.com is made possible by: Ramp - https://Ramp.com https://ramp.com/ AppLovin - https://axon.ai https://axon.ai/ Cognition - https://cognition.ai https://cognition.ai/ Console -https://console.com https://console.com/ CrowdStrike - https://crowdstrike.com https://crowdstrike.com/ ElevenLabs - https://elevenlabs.io https://elevenlabs.io/ Figma - https://figma.com https://figma.com/ Fin - https://fin.ai https://fin.ai/ Gemini - https://gemini.google.com https://gemini.google.com/ Graphite - https://graphite.com https://graphite.com/ Gusto - https://gusto.com/tbpn https://graphite.com/ Labelbox - https://labelbox.com https://labelbox.com/ Lambda - https://lambda.ai https://lambda.ai/ Linear - https://linear.app https://linear.app/ MongoDB - https://mongodb.com https://mongodb.com/ NYSE - https://nyse.com https://nyse.com/ Okta - https://www.okta.com https://www.okta.com/ Phantom - https://phantom.com/cash Plaid -https://plaid.com https://plaid.com/ Public - https://public.com https://public.com/ Railway - https://railway.com https://railway.com/ Ramp -https://ramp.com https://ramp.com/ Restream - https://restream.io https://restream.io/ Sentry - https://sentry.io https://sentry.io/welcome/ Shopify - https://shopify.com https://shopify.com/ Turbopuffer - https://turbopuffer.com https://turbopuffer.com/ Vanta - https://vanta.com https://vanta.com/ Vibe - https://vibe.co https://vibe.co/ Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://tbpn.com/ https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jordi Hays?

  Everyone wants to know, did John get a haircut? Yes.

• 0:03John Coogan?

  Yeah, I did, yesterday.

• 0:04Jordi Hays?

  Cleaned it up a little bit.

• 0:05John Coogan?

  Yeah, a little bit.

• 0:06Jordi Hays?

  It's getting wild.

• 0:06John Coogan?

  Some length still, we'll see. I think Siri needs an app. I think that that's under discussed. The news is that Apple and Google have a deal. We talked to Ben Thompson about it yesterday. Billion dollars going from Apple to Google. Now, my real hot take is that I think it's going to flip at some point. And I think Google, or someone else, is going to pay Apple to route LLM queries to them. Because with the Universal Commerce Protocol, Agentic Commerce Protocol, with ads and LLM responses, there's going to be a whole bunch of moments where an LLM query is actually profitable. And on average, I think they will be profitable. I think the price of inference will continue to decline.

• 0:48John Coogan?

  And the value of each query, the monetization of each query, will increase until there's a flipping. And then, all of a sudden, every LLM query that's generated is on net, across the entire category, generating profit instead of generating losses, which is what's happening right now. Of course, just like with Google, when you search for, you know, how old is Leonardo DiCaprio, or something, they're not making a lot of money on that. They're not running a lot of ads on that. But when you go to search for insurance, or something like that, they charge a pretty penny for those ads. And I think the same thing will be true for LLMs broadly.

• 1:23Jordi Hays?

  It is kind of interesting, they don't, I just looked it up, they don't run ads on how old is Leonardo DiCaprio. You'd think that they could figure out some type of ad to serve.

• 1:32John Coogan?

  Yeah, you'd think Brian Johnson would be buying an ad on that.

• 1:33Jordi Hays?

  Like some peptide.

• 1:34John Coogan?

  Because you're like, oh, he looks great, and what's he doing? Oh, and then they just put, look like Leo. He's 51.

• 1:39Jordi Hays?

  Leo was born in the 70s.

• 1:41John Coogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:41Jordi Hays?

  Which is crazy, when you say it like that.

• 1:43John Coogan?

  Well, he's looking great, he was at the Golden Globes, having fun, celebrating his movie.

• 1:48Jordi Hays?

  Goofing around.

• 1:49John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, he was goofing around. He was caught on like, some mic, looking at somebody, I don't know, I saw some random clips. The real thing I wanted to debate with Tyler was, I was arguing that Siri needs an app. It's crazy. Siri came out in 2010, hasn't had an app for its entire life. I mean, it actually started as an app back in the day. It was Siri is from the Stanford Institute of Research and Intelligence or something like that.

• 2:14Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, what was it? It was like a $200 million acquisition?

• 2:17John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah. So it was an app that you needed to install on your iPhone. There were a few of these speech recognition apps that you could go and you'd open up the app, click a button. Siri, because I think the fact that they were on the on the West Coast, was able to get the deepest integration in Apple, sort of win the Home button over time, win the Siri button. And eventually they teamed up and actually, oh, I have triggered Siri on my Mac.

• 2:43Jordi Hays?

  There you go.

• 2:43John Coogan?

  Fantastic. Eventually, you know, Siri gets baked into the in the operating system level and the rest is history. The first couple of years are pretty good. People are excited. You know, you can, it was somewhat magical to be able to just press a button, ask for the weather, ask for a stock chart, ask for, you know, what's on your calendar, dictate a text message. A lot of that was pretty great. Estimates are around 500 million active Siri users globally, which is huge, but there's 1.5 billion iPhone users. So having only a third of your user base use your AI feature seems a little bit low, if that's the case.

• 3:20John Coogan?

  Obviously juicing it up with an LLM like Gemini makes a ton of sense, but this deal between Google and Apple makes a ton of sense for a few reasons. Google's actually profitable, has the money. They don't need to take a huge amount of cash from Apple. They can give them sort of a deal on it because.

• 3:40Jordi Hays?

  It was really fun. Ben, Ben kept throwing around big numbers yesterday. Like, let's be honest, we're in tax. It's not a lot of money.

• 3:46John Coogan?

  Yeah, it's funny.

• 3:47Jordi Hays?

  It's actually true.

• 3:48John Coogan?

  It ramped up because at first it was the $30,000 DaVinci Resolve, the Blackmagic Ursa immersive camera that's $30,000. He's like, that's nothing. You just put those over. That's true for tech. And then he was like, you know, Apple's paying Google a billion dollars. That's nothing. It's like they're both nothing.

• 4:05Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, the whole thing with the

• 4:07John Coogan?

  Alphabet's a $4 trillion company now.

• 4:09Jordi Hays?

  The infrastructure, the hardware to do a live Apple Vision Pro broadcast being $30,000 or something in that range is like the fact that they could copy and paste that around every stadium and suddenly have like a probably a I imagine they could scale that to hundreds of millions of dollars of like

• 4:26John Coogan?

  You'd think so, pay-per-view and stuff, yeah.

• 4:28Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, not even pay-per-view, but just a subscription.

• 4:30John Coogan?

  Yeah, even just selling headsets. I mean, the headset's $3,500. You only need to sell 10 headsets to offset the price of one immersive camera. My take is that I think over time this will flip and I think over time, Google will be paying Apple for all of the LLM routing that happens because Google will be monetizing those queries. You will go to Siri and you will say, what's the weather? And Gemini, under the hood, will tell you the weather and they probably won't monetize that very well. But then every once in a while, you'll say, hey, Gemini, order me a new TV. And it'll say, what size do you want?

• 5:02Jordi Hays?

  And it'll just order it and deliver it. Order me Rain, Rainmaker.

• 5:04John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, it changed the weather. And they will get either an affiliate fee or a transaction fee or there will be an ad that's placed in the stream of content that comes back. And I would imagine that right now, Apple's saying, don't do any of those ads. Don't monetize these queries, but over time, I imagine that they will. But the big thing that I wanted to discuss with Tyler, he was fighting me on this. He says that Siri does not need an app. I think that Siri will need an app. I think that the LLM chat interface is so dominant at this point that everyone has the experience of going back and forth asynchronously. Like it's chatting to a helpful assistant, like you're texting with a friend. You want to be able to scroll up and see

• 5:48Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, if you think about it, it'd be very annoying if you had a real-life assistant and they were like, you can only call me.

• 5:52John Coogan?

  Well, Tyler, explain. Explain your position.

• 5:55Speaker 02

  So it's not that

• 5:59John Coogan?

  No, you flashbanged him.

• 6:02Jordi Hays?

  Hit him with a flashback. Sorry, trying to help out, John. Opinion denied, Tyler. You got flashbanged.

• 6:08John Coogan?

  We have a flashback now on the stream. What good timing. So Tyler, once the flashbang wears off, please tell us.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  Okay, so it's not that I disagree. I'm not like anti-app. It's just like the fifth most important thing that they need to like do.

• 6:24John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 6:24Speaker 02

  Like, I don't care, like, okay, would you rather have the same Siri, but there's also an app? Or a new Siri? There's no app, but it's a better model. Like, obviously, you're picking the latter.

• 6:33John Coogan?

  Yeah, you're picking the better model. But what I'm saying is that as soon as you integrate a better model that has more... He's gonna flashbang again.

• 6:40Speaker 02

  I'm too powerful.

• 6:41John Coogan?

  I'm watching this. As soon as you have deeper responses and more back and forth and more knowledge retrieval. Siri has, they had Wolfram Alpha integration. I think they had a Wikipedia integration for a little bit, but it was more just like pulling up a Wikipedia snippet. If you want to go deeper, you would open that webpage in Safari and look at the actual Wikipedia. Now, there is new context and new content that's being created on the fly by these models because you can ask questions that don't exist in a single Wikipedia page. Gemini, under the hood in Siri, will instantiate that for you, give you those paragraphs. And you might not be able to read through all of that in one screen time session. You might get a text message, need to answer it. You might get a phone call.

• 7:24John Coogan?

  You might have to put your phone down to, you know, keep doing whatever you're doing. And you want to come back to it. And so, yes, you could just say your prompt again and re-instantiate it all, but that takes time. These models are slow, especially if you're firing off a deep research report.

• 7:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, like, yes, like, these are, I agree that these are important things, but these are like far from the most important thing. I could just say, okay, if I'm asking about chips yesterday, we have this long conversation. And then I say, okay, yesterday, we were talking about chips. Let's continue that conversation. That's, that whole thing solves now.

• 7:56John Coogan?

  Yes, so, so that is a, that would be amazing. But the current chat apps don't even have that functionality. If you go to a new empty chat box.

• 8:04Speaker 02

  But you could very easily implement that. There are on all the, okay, on Claude, on ChatGPT Gemini, you can search through your past chats.

• 8:10John Coogan?

  Do you know how bad the search is? The search is not LLM power.

• 8:13Speaker 02

  I've found the search.

• 8:14John Coogan?

  It's not that good.

• 8:14Speaker 02

  Good.

• 8:14John Coogan?

  It's not that good.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  Okay, well, they can figure it out.

• 8:16John Coogan?

  It's not, it's not actually an LLM query. It's not, it's not just you're talking about something like you're talking with a friend. You have to use keywords again. You're back in like traditional search world. You, you don't just go to the same empty box and say, hey, remember when we were talking about the, the fall of the Roman Empire? Uh, re pull that, pull all that up. It doesn't do that.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  Okay, sure, but that's, I don't think that's that hard to implement. You just put them in betting models.

• 8:41John Coogan?

  But we're talking about Siri here. It can barely pull up the weather. We're going from like a D tier product.

• 8:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:46John Coogan?

  To now we're baking in a new model Gemini, which is gonna take it to like B tier.

• 8:50Speaker 02

  Implementation of the metal, of the model is way more important than if the app works. If, if I can like search through it correctly. So, okay, if you're doing a deep research, are you even, are we even sure that that is, you want to be using Siri for that? Like, maybe it's just better to do it. Whenever I do deep research.

• 9:03John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 9:03Speaker 02

  I never do it on the app. I'm always on like my laptop.

• 9:06John Coogan?

  Nerd, nerd alert.

• 9:07Speaker 02

  Because it's just like way more information dense. There's a bunch of links that I want to click on in order to do that on mobile.

• 9:12John Coogan?

  People definitely fire off deep research reports on their phone. Maybe they go read them later on their laptop, but we live in a mobile first world and Apple, and that's the Apple customer base. Part of what's cool about these apps is that if I pull out the sidebar, I can scroll through and I can remember, oh, wow, I was looking at, you know, uh, the, the NBA's history and, you know, their attendance over different, I don't even remember firing this off, but like I, I did, and now I can go back and enjoy the fruits of its labor.

• 9:43Speaker 02

  What would you rather have? Would you rather have Gemini 2.5 and an app?

• 9:47John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 9:47Speaker 02

  Or Gemini 3 and no app?

• 9:48John Coogan?

  It's not a trade off. They're getting the best Gemini, obviously.

• 9:52Speaker 02

  Okay, clearly Apple.

• 9:52John Coogan?

  And then also the, the app is coming. That's what I'm saying.

• 9:55Speaker 02

  Apple is bad at implementing AI.

• 9:56John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 9:56Speaker 02

  Do you agree with that?

• 9:59John Coogan?

  They have been to date.

• 9:59Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 10:00John Coogan?

  Yeah, no one debates that Apple Intelligence was sort of botched.

• 10:03Speaker 02

  So I think there is definitely a case to be made that they need to prioritize certain things and the implementation of the actual model, like them using the best model that's going to be fast, it's going to.

• 10:10John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 10:10Speaker 02

  Like maybe on Siri, people are used to having fairly short responses. You don't want paragraphs and paragraphs unless you ask for it.

• 10:15John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 10:16Speaker 02

  Stuff like this is, I think, much more important than having.

• 10:18John Coogan?

  Yes, yes, yes. Yes, and I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, truthfully, developing the type of app that I'm discussing about Siri, like, it should be able to be one shot by a cloud code.

• 10:28Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 10:29John Coogan?

  Like, it's super simple.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  Okay, let me say one more thing.

• 10:30John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 10:31Speaker 02

  Okay, so I'm just saying like.

• 10:31Jordi Hays?

  I'm about to flashbang you.

• 10:32Speaker 02

  If. Okay, if you're like writing this, who's the audience? Like, Apple, right? You want to make a change?

• 10:38John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  Maybe, right?

• 10:39John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:39Speaker 02

  Okay, so it's like.

• 10:39John Coogan?

  I, I.

• 10:40Speaker 02

  Ben Thompson comes on yesterday.

• 10:41John Coogan?

  All I'm saying is that, is that, is that I'm excited for, I'm excited to be able to access Gemini with a button. I feel like that's what this deal is giving me.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's nothing to do with an app.

• 10:51John Coogan?

  Also, after I access Gemini with this button, that triggers, trigger flashbang, then I want to be able to see my list.

• 11:10Jordi Hays?

  Pull up this clip from Gary Tan testifying in the Senate.

• 11:13John Coogan?

  Okay, okay, let's see.

• 11:14Speaker 03

  About. Uh, who here actually uses Siri? I personally do not, because I know that it does not have the cutting-edge technology that.

• 11:22John Coogan?

  I don't get along well with her.

• 11:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, but, exactly, that, uh, you know, Anthropic, or OpenAI, or many other American labs could provide. And, uh, imagine if, uh, Apple opened it up so that, similar to when you open Windows, you have to choose a browser.

• 11:38John Coogan?

  Oh, model picker?

• 11:39Speaker 03

  What if you could choose your AI agent?

• 11:41John Coogan?

  I love it.

• 11:41Speaker 03

  Then there are a billion consumers in the world who would suddenly have access to not just one self-preference Siri, but a variety of American labs. And that would open up investment, that would open up prosperity.

• 11:57John Coogan?

  That's a good pitch. I like this. When is that from? Is that recent?

• 12:02Jordi Hays?

  Ian is on an absolute tear.

• 12:03John Coogan?

  Let's see.

• 12:04Jordi Hays?

  The goat over Huber.

• 12:05John Coogan?

  Thank you, Ian.

• 12:06Jordi Hays?

  Hi, uh, he says, "Apple's currently hiring 300 Siri-focused roles."

• 12:10John Coogan?

  Oh, they're going big. They're, they're gonna do everything. You don't think one of those is an app developer? I'm ready to move the goalposts. We have the goalpost. So my new definition for Apple AGI, Apple and Apple Intelligence, Apple Superintelligence, Apple Superintelligence.

• 12:27Jordi Hays?

  It's just a functioning search function feature in iMessage.

• 12:31John Coogan?

  That would be very good.

• 12:32Jordi Hays?

  That's AGI for Apple.

• 12:33John Coogan?

  That's ASI. No, my, my definition is I want to be able to go to the new Siri and so I, I got an iPad and the iPad just accidentally installed like every app that I've ever installed on my phone on the iPad, which wouldn't be that bad because on my phone I have one home screen and then I have a second screen and then the third screen is just the app library and it just has a search box and then the app library actually very intelligently organizes things into productivity, utilities, entertainment. It does all that for me. I don't need to organize it. I don't choose where things go. It knows if it's a creativity app or a travel app or a news app. It puts it in its correct category. I don't need to manage that. So

• 13:14John Coogan?

  it's great. It's a good test of agentic AI to be able to, with a single prompt, one shot, hey, clean up the whole desktop because we're seeing that today with Claude Co-Work. As trivial as that example is, I think it's a good example of what an agentic system should be able to do if it has the proper hooks into the OS layer. Claude Co-Work can do it on desktop. What's the iOS equivalent of that? It's gotta be Apple Intelligence. They have their walled garden. The walls are staying up. They're not letting Claude Co-Work go around your, your iOS installation and hook into all your different local APIs. That's the domain of Apple Intelligence. That's the domain of Siri. Siri is now powered by Gemini. Let's see if that's what they launch. Apple ran a blind test of frontier

• 13:58John Coogan?

  models and picked Gemini. Interesting. And there's this old photo of the, the Tim Cook meeting with Sundar Pichai from Google in a dimly lit cafe or restaurant.

• 14:10Jordi Hays?

  Tim Cook very clearly mewing here. I think they're both mewing at each other. They're both mewing at each other. They're just having a mew off.

• 14:17John Coogan?

  Yes, that's how they really decided.

• 14:19Jordi Hays?

  They're not even talking.

• 14:20John Coogan?

  They want to do business together.

• 14:21Jordi Hays?

  The New York Times has a new profile. John Turnus, a low profile but influential executive at Apple, could be next in line to replace the company's longtime chief executive, Tim Cook, if he steps aside. They say around 2018, Apple considered adding a tiny laser to its iPhones. The part would allow consumers to take better photos, more accurately map their surroundings, and use new augmented reality features. But it would also cost Apple about $40 per device, cutting into the company's profits. John Turnus, Apple's head of hardware engineering, suggested adding the component to only the more expensive Pro models. And we have to take a minute to talk about the nominative determinism of turn us.

• 14:58John Coogan?

  Turn us around.

• 14:58Jordi Hays?

  Turn us around. Mr. Turn us around. Our AI strategy is failing. We need somebody to turn us around. Mr. Turnus could be the man for the job. He joined Apple in 2001. He is now considered by some company insiders to be the frontrunner to replace Tim Cook. Apple last year began accelerating its planning for Mr. Cook's succession.

• 15:19John Coogan?

  Like Mr. Cook, Mr. Turnus is known for his attention to detail and his knowledge of Apple's vast supply network. Both men are also considered even tempered collaborators. If Meta owns WhatsApp and includes that in the family of apps, and messaging is obviously a huge driver of social networking activity these days. People sharing content through there. Snapchat is a messenger. Instagram is, you know, you look and you see there's more shares on this reel than likes because people are sending it to each other. That's what people do. That's how people.

• 15:50Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, and I think the people have long had the idea to build a family-focused social network. And I don't think they'll ever be successful because group chats on iMessage function.

• 16:01John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah, totally.

• 16:02Jordi Hays?

  Do that very well.

• 16:03John Coogan?

  You just can't keep up with that. Apple's plans for artificial intelligence are also a big question. Is he AGI-pilled? Is he AISi-pilled? Whatever his timelines, is he a doomer? We got to get to the bottom of this. Hopefully, the New York Times is asking the hard questions. We will find out. While other giant technology companies have spent tens of billions of dollars developing AI, Apple has largely been on the sidelines and it pushed off making major changes to its products with new AI technology. It will be up to Apple's board of directors to decide who will eventually replace Mr. Cook, who also sits on the board. The rest of the company's eight board members did not respond to requests for comments and Apple declined. To make Mr. Turnus available for an interview. They couldn't get the New York Times in the room with Turnus. Is he a nice guy?

• 16:44John Coogan?

  Yes, says Mr. Rogers. He is a nice guy. He's someone you want to hang out with. Everyone loves him because he's great. And here's the quote that lives in infamy. Has he made any hard decisions? No. Are there hard problems he's solved in hardware? No.

• 16:59John Coogan?

  Cameron Rogers, hater of the year, right here.

• 17:03Jordi Hays?

  We should have Cameron on the show.

• 17:05John Coogan?

  Hater in chief, chief hating officer. It's crazy. Certainly, you cannot be at Apple for two decades and never have made a single hard decision or solved a hard problem in hardware. Like, that seems impossible.

• 17:16Jordi Hays?

  It's funny, there's another, there is a hardware engineer at Apple today named Cameron Rogers, but it is

• 17:23John Coogan?

  Different person.

• 17:23Jordi Hays?

  Different.

• 17:24John Coogan?

  Okay, very fun. Well, good luck to him. I don't know. I think he can figure it out. I would be shocked if he's really never solved a hard problem. Seems like he has some beef with this Cameron fellow. OpenAI, they've acquired Torch. It's a healthcare startup that unifies lab results, medications, and visit recordings. Bringing this together with ChatGPT Health opens up a new way to understand and manage your health, says OpenAI.

• 17:48Jordi Hays?

  Okay, founders of Torch. Torch was a four-person company.

• 17:52John Coogan?

  Oh, small.

• 17:53Jordi Hays?

  They, the co-founder of Torch, Ilya, I believe, one of the other founders, previously built Forward.

• 18:02John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:02Jordi Hays?

  Ilya was also an early Uber GM, so trained at the Travis Kalanick School of Mogging. Healthcare startup founded in 2016. They wanted to rebuild the healthcare system from the ground up. Sounds, sounds cool. The general belief was that healthcare was too reactive instead of proactive, right? You go to the doctor when you're sick, not to just kind of generally be healthy. They had an app, they wanted the sort of physical spaces to feel like Apple stores, right? They wanted this Apple-like experience for health. Subscription-only model. They didn't accept insurance initially. A bunch of folks, Founders Fund,

• 18:44Jordi Hays?

  Cosla, Eric Schmidt, a bunch of legends were in the round. 2018 to 2022, they expanded to dozens of locations. They had body scanners, real-time blood work, a bunch of different software that they'd built out. 2021 reached a valuation of over $1 billion, raised a quarter-billion-dollar-ish Series D round. At this point, from that point on, they they sort of pivoted to focusing on this thing called Care Pods. And these were like trying to be autonomous, like AI driven medical kiosk. So honestly, probably right idea, maybe a little bit too early. I think the the right way to read into this, OpenAI just launched OpenAI Health.

• 19:28Jordi Hays?

  They're now acquiring Torch. I would assume that they want all they want all of your they want all of your health data. Like, they really want to help you with your health.

• 19:37John Coogan?

  They want your blood. They're out for blood.

• 19:39Jordi Hays?

  They want your blood.

• 19:39John Coogan?

  They want your blood work.

• 19:40Jordi Hays?

  Maybe maybe they could say like, hey, this month, instead of instead of paying, you could be a blood boy for us. Our researchers are working really hard.

• 19:51John Coogan?

  Need your blood. I'm ready to upload. Upload me. Just let me know. Let me know.

• 19:56Jordi Hays?

  I'm going to read the the message that Torch wrote. Torch says, everyone deserves the best answers modern medicine can give them. And yet we've all had people close to our hearts who didn't get the answers they needed about their health. We have more data about our bodies than ever before, but it's never been harder to bring it all together. Patients see only a fraction of their own records, while clinicians have little have too little time to parse the growing stream of data patients bring in from wearables and consumer health companies, you know, like function, etc. AI is the most important new tool we've had in decades for turning the chaos into clarity. But AI can't help you if your health data is scattered across four hospitals, two labs, seven apps, and three web portals. We started Torch to build a medical memory for AI, unifying scattered records into a context engine that helps you see the full picture, connect the dots,

• 20:39Jordi Hays?

  and make sure nothing important gets lost in the noise again.

• 20:42John Coogan?

  Every time I see one of these, one of these new features drop from Claude, CoWork, or OpenAI, ChatGPT, Health, it just feels like the Siri thing is like bigger and bigger. Back to what Tyler was saying about implementation of the model. Because Apple has Apple Health. There's a whole promise there of what Apple Health as an app can do. You want that to be AI enabled. They so they need to update that as well. There's so many different, okay, shopping, agent to commerce, like like. There's Apple Pay. Is Apple Pay integrated with Siri and the new AI function? So they really do need to go around and update all over the place if they want to stay.

• 21:22John Coogan?

  You know, they have some dominant positions carved out, but every AI company is trying to eat off Apple's plate and as much as they can. But there's really, really strong lock-in to most of the Apple ecosystem. So they, they, it's not over if they don't move right now and get the app out and get updates out. But it's very clear that if Apple or ChatGPT Health is rolling out, it's going to take time for people to ramp up, start integrating things, start using it. But if that behavior develops and it's another two, three years until Apple responds, like, yeah, they are going to be a laggard in that category. Claude Code for the rest of your work, American middle-class desk jockeys watching the asteroid hit the dinosaurs.

• 22:06John Coogan?

  We will see, we'll, we'll see how much this moves productivity, how much this move GDP. That's the big question for this year is how much will people actually be able to use this to do the work they do every day? I've been in jobs where my job-

• 22:22Jordi Hays?

  Organizing desktop files was actually a $1 trillion industry.

• 22:27John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 22:27Jordi Hays?

  And-

• 22:28John Coogan?

  I mean, I, I have, I have been, I was, I was an intern once and my job was basically to open up an Excel template every day, copy, paste some, some numbers, sort of make sure all the formulas held. And over the internship, over the couple of months, I wrote more and more Visual Basic. So that my job went from eight hours on the first day to four hours to eventually it was like 15 minutes.

• 22:55Jordi Hays?

  We might see a bull market in water cooler talk.

• 22:58John Coogan?

  Ooh, yeah, that's possible.

• 22:59Jordi Hays?

  As people automate more and more of their work and just decide to yap.

• 23:03John Coogan?

  I'm AI-pilled after seeing what the new grad philosophy major I hired to fly drones from a mountaintop has automated at Rainmaker with Claude.

• 23:14Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, we keep asking Tyler, hey, can you automate this? And he says, ah, sorry, sir, it's, it's, it's not, it's not possible yet. It's not possible yet. I don't, I don't believe it. I never said that.

• 23:26Speaker 02

  He basically say everything.

• 23:27John Coogan?

  Okay, Claude, take this unstructured data and turn it into dashboards that will give executives deeper insights into critical business functions. Make no mistakes.

• 23:35Jordi Hays?

  Uh, cheer ticket says all reliable because Sophie posts some version of this.

• 23:40John Coogan?

  Wait, really?

• 23:41Jordi Hays?

  Once a day.

• 23:41John Coogan?

  No, once a day?

• 23:42Jordi Hays?

  Basically.

• 23:43John Coogan?

  No way.

• 23:43Jordi Hays?

  He's gone viral with the same concept. Atlas says Claude, here is a picture of my crush. Claude, here is her phone number. Make her my GF. Make no mistakes.

• 23:53John Coogan?

  That's also his been playing the heads. Everyone has their role to play in the post singularity hangout session.

• 23:59Jordi Hays?

  Juwan says, there's no point in learning or doing anything anymore. Just learn English and acquire a good mental model of things and just type, bro. Just type.

• 24:10John Coogan?

  We'll see. I mean, you have to actually be inspired to come up with something that people want. Talk to users or something like that. Uh, we gotta go over to the OpenAI device. There's new leaks, alleged leaks. We'll see. Uh, it's a new audio wearable meant to replace AirPods. This aligns with what the information has been leaking. Uh, the code name, Sweet P. Interesting. Uh, it looks like a metal eggstone with two little capsules behind the ear, aiming for a two nanometer chip, maybe a custom chip for phone-like actions. Big ambition, 50 million units in year one. That's a lot of devices.

• 24:46Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, so Foxconn has been told to prepare for five total devices by Q4 of 2028.

• 24:52John Coogan?

  Whoa.

• 24:53Jordi Hays?

  Uh, all not known but a home style device in a pen are still considered.

• 24:57John Coogan?

  I wonder how serious going to Foxconn if you're OpenAI, you go to Foxconn and you say, prepare for five devices? What does that really mean? Does it mean, okay, help me prototype, do some demo runs, build me one or two? And, and maybe we'll do one of the five, maybe we'll do two of the five. Uh, is Foxconn really reorienting everything about this? Are they totally prepared to make five? How serious that, serious is that? I don't know. All, all I know is that it's exciting. I like, I like hardware. It's fun. It's a, I'm, I'm, we're seeing it. We're seeing glimpse of this with the kids, with, with the board and with the, the, what was, what was it called? Camera box? No. Uh, sticker box.

• 25:37Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 25:37John Coogan?

  Sticker box.

• 25:38Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, I think, I mean, OpenAI, it sounds like, uh, Johnny's team are the ones that are kind of pushing for this form factor, according to, obviously, this is a rumor. But picking a form factor similar to AirPods, which have insane product market fit, which last time I checked are like a $20 billion revenue line for Apple.

• 25:57John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 25:58Jordi Hays?

  Very, it could be a standalone business by itself. And again, if you look back to the infamous interview with Gersner, Sam was saying, like, we have a device coming.

• 26:09John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 26:10Jordi Hays?

  We have a device coming. Don't worry, don't worry about that.

• 26:12John Coogan?

  That's a lot of revenue, potentially. I mean, I don't know if they sell them. What do you think the price point for a, for a OpenAI device would be? $300? $1,000? $999? $3,500 like the Apple?

• 26:26Jordi Hays?

  I feel like, I feel like they have to, I feel like they have to stay in the range of the AirPods.

• 26:32John Coogan?

  And AirPods are between $100 and $300, basically. So low, single-digit hundreds. Well, Andrew Curran has a projection for what it'll look like. If they ship this, I think they got an absolute blockbuster on their hands.

• 26:48Jordi Hays?

  This goes so hard.

• 26:50John Coogan?

  It goes so hard.

• 26:50Jordi Hays?

  The reason I like it is because the, the computer part is actually on the back.

• 26:54John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 26:54Jordi Hays?

  It frees you up to just stay locked in.

• 26:57John Coogan?

  Super cool. And also, I love that there's a display that you can't see, but everyone else can. Apple has just introduced Apple Creator Studio, says Aaron here, analyst at Mac Rumors. Final Cut Pro, Logic Pro, Pixelmator Pro, Motion Compressor, and Main Stage, plus new AI features and premium content in keynote, pages, and numbers come together in a single subscription.

• 27:19Jordi Hays?

  I would love to know what the average iPhone customer spends on software monthly.

• 27:26John Coogan?

  They're printing. Their services business is everything at this point.

• 27:29Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, I guess you could just divide services revenue.

• 27:32John Coogan?

  Well, services revenue, they don't really break it all out. Whenever they talk about services, they talk about Apple TV, all the wonderful TV shows and movies that they're producing. But then a lot of the services revenue comes from the App Store, 30% cut. You're laughing. What's funny?

• 27:46Jordi Hays?

  Dave says, "Jordan, you dork. You didn't pirate."

• 27:48John Coogan?

  You didn't pirate it.

• 27:50Jordi Hays?

  Honestly, I, my father was very much like, you wouldn't, you wouldn't, you wouldn't steal from the grocery store. Don't, don't steal.

• 27:59John Coogan?

  You wouldn't pirate a car.

• 28:00Jordi Hays?

  Big computer, big Apple.

• 28:02John Coogan?

  Yeah. Respect, respect big tech from day one. Let's read through this back and forth between Tim Sweeney and Palmer Lucky, because they're going back and forth. PC Gamer reported that Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney argues banning Twitter over its ability to AI generate adult images of minors is just gatekeepers attempting to censor all of their political opponents. Tim Sweeney fired back and said, "This is a vile lie by PC Gamer. I criticized a government official for pressuring Apple and Google to block a speech app owned by their political opponent, deplatforming 500 million users on the pretense of stopping a small number of users from distributing disgusting content." And Palmer Lucky chimed in and said, "PC Gamer loves to make things up about people they don't like." And he's going back to a report

• 28:47John Coogan?

  that PC Gamer put out about, this is an insane headline. "Tech billionaires, including Palmer Lucky, set up dumb new bank for those who didn't get burned enough in the 2022 crypto crash." You could write a headline like that? That's insane.

• 29:03Jordi Hays?

  Why, why does PC Gamer?

• 29:06John Coogan?

  Just so hard. They literally use the word dumb. I mean, I guess this is an opinion piece or something, but it's all about the stable coins and they call him a Bond villain. Wow, they really don't like him. This is crazy. Palmer replied, he said, quote, "The point of SVB and thus Arabor is risky bets on fledgling startups that are unlikely to be backed by traditional finance, which has all these pesky rules and regulations. Why are you lying? The point is literally the opposite." It's time for Silicon Valley to actually get involved and organize in California. One, financially tough times are ahead for California. California's government will almost certainly try to loot Silicon Valley. Silicon Valley will flee. Four, this will create a severe loss for the Bay Area in California and for the United States.

• 29:49John Coogan?

  Five, the only way out is for successful technologists to run and win for office at every level in the 2026 midterm elections, especially for governor.

• 29:57Jordi Hays?

  Newsom says, this will be defeated. There's no question in my mind. I'll do what I have to do to protect the state.

• 30:03John Coogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 30:04Jordi Hays?

  The governor has long opposed the wealth tax because of concerns.

• 30:07John Coogan?

  All of that is just very, very complicated, but there's really good news because now you can book a hotel on the moon. A new startup backed by Nvidia NY Combinator is planning to develop the first hotel on the moon by 2032. I'm going. I'm going. It's starting at $416,000 per night. We'll see where that actually lands. Thank you so much for tuning in. We will see you tomorrow at 11 a.m. Pacific. Leave us five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and sign up for our newsletter at tbpn.com. See you tomorrow.

• 30:42Jordi Hays?

  Cheers.

• 30:43John Coogan?

  Goodbye.