Reverse Engineering 200 AI Startups, Nucleus Genomics Controversy, Drone Hunting | Diet TBPN

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00John Coogan?

  Today on the show, we are talking about Claude Opus 4.5. The timeline was in turmoil over the weekend. People are settling into the idea that Gemini 3 might be good enough to actually pull some people away from ChatGPT as a daily driver. It certainly pulled Marc Benioff away from ChatGPT. He, of course, has partnerships with-

• 0:19Jordi Hays?

  He was swearing on the timeline.

• 0:21John Coogan?

  Holy S H I T. I've used ChatGPT every day for three years. I just spent two hours on Gemini 3. I'm not going back. The leap is insane. Reasoning, speed, images, video. Everything is sharper and faster. It feels like the world just changed again. I had a similar experience. I wound up basically daily driving Gemini. I didn't fully churn. I didn't, I didn't delete ChatGPT for my phone. It wasn't intentional. It was more like, I'm just curious. I really want to use Nano Banana Pro. That definitely just sort of sucked me into the ecosystem. I know you've been a gemmy boy for a couple of weeks. You look great in hindsight. You were early to this party.

• 0:59Jordi Hays?

  Honestly, way longer than that, months at this point.

• 1:01John Coogan?

  Yeah, there are some things that I do want them to improve in the consumer Gemini app. Because I think there's a lot of opportunity there. And I'm just not sure how monopolistic consumer AI will be. And that was a little bit of what my takeaway of this experience was. So basically, I switched over. I've been on Gemini on iOS for a while, mostly to access VO3. VO3 was the, was the moment when I was like, okay, they got something that nobody else has. I got to fork over 250 a month.

• 1:28Jordi Hays?

  Well, and then it switched.

• 1:29John Coogan?

  No, no, it was one, it was 125 and then it jumped to 250. VO3 is just a very special model that no one else had anything close to it. It was very accessible on your phone and I, and I enjoyed it. So I, but, but I switched to daily driving Gemini on iOS as the main app that I go to for all the different knowledge retrieval requests. And the result was around 15 minutes per day in the app. And this is roughly the same as what I spent in ChatGPT historic. And there was a lot to like about the experience. So first, it felt like Gemini 3 does a better job sizing the response. The question can be answered in one paragraph. It gives me one paragraph. If it can be answered in, in five little sub headers with little bullet points, it'll do that. If it needs more, more story, more history, it'll, it'll write more.

• 2:12John Coogan?

  In previous models in, in ChatGPT, certainly, I felt like I was falling into the trap of no matter what question I would ask, I would get- The two-page dissertation on it with the same structure because it was a little overfit on the format that it was delivering. Gemini 3 felt a little bit fresh there. It also felt faster. Everyone's been saying it's so much faster. For the last couple of months when I've been on ChatGPT, because the model router gives me anxiety about like, oh, maybe I'm going to get routed to like the dumb model that's going to hallucinate. I'm just hammering GPT-5 Pro because I'm on the $200 a month tier. And so because I'm on this $200 a month tier, I'm used to hitting GPT-5 Pro, but then that always means I'm waiting 10 minutes. And so if I'm always waiting 10 minutes and I go over to thinking and it's like, oh, it'll

• 2:57John Coogan?

  be one minute. Even if I'm on a different model, it's not as much reasoning. It feels faster and I feel like the level of confidence in the brand makes me feel that a Gemini 3 Thinking query that does maybe less reasoning than a GPT-5 Pro query will be at the same level of reliability. And you've pointed out to me something about when it's actually running, it does something psychologically that's really valuable.

• 3:22Jordi Hays?

  It's smart. It says it's running a Google search.

• 3:24John Coogan?

  It just says we're searching Google. And you don't think about it because everyone is searching the web. And I'm like, but I don't trust the web, but I trust Google because Google's had 25 years of building brand around trust on the web. And then also Nano Banana Pro, very interesting, strong differentiator. It really does handle the complex images. We saw that with the farm and it's been interesting to kind of throw a query like I wanted to understand Anthropic's model architectures. And I said, hey, summarize them all in an infographic and it just perfectly explained how Sonnet and Opus all fit together nicely next to each other. On the negative side of my Gemini app experience, there were a few rough edges. So the first was with that multimodality. Everyone's been saying that these models are

• 4:06John Coogan?

  multimodal. They handle image, text and video. I don't know if it was just a UI issue, but I was running into tons of problems where it wasn't feeling multimodal. And what I mean by that is that I would go and I would And I would, and it would issue it a, an image prompt, create this infographic. And then I would want to flip back into text and it would not be able to really stay. It wouldn't be able to go seamlessly back to text mode. It would keep generating images and then vice versa would happen where I would kick off a text, uh, a, a text flow. And then I'd say, okay, I'm ready for you to turn this into a nano banana thing. And it'd be like, oh, I can't, I can't really do that. Are you laughing about that because you think it's like a rookie mistake or something?

• 4:42Speaker 02

  Well, no, I, you always like, oh, it's not really multimodal.

• 4:45John Coogan?

  It's not really multimodal.

• 4:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, but.

• 4:46John Coogan?

  There should not be a button. If there's a button, it's telling on itself.

• 4:49Speaker 02

  Like it, it is multimodal in the sense that like everything gets baked down into like tokens.

• 4:54John Coogan?

  True, true, but I, I expect the models to be operating at a higher level of abstraction much earlier than I think they do. And so with the model picker, like I never liked that because the model should pick based on the text. I really like the router in, in, uh, in chat GPT. Because I should be able to go to a person, which is what we're trying to like recreate here and say like, hey, I have you, I have a research project for you and I need you to spend 20 minutes on it. What I'm saying is that we are still in the pre like selected dropdown UI functionality of Gemini. Because I, I, I'm prompted to pick what I want to do. Do you want to do image, video, deep research, text?

• 5:36John Coogan?

  Before you go into the flow, instead of just saying, I'm having a conversation. Oh, now is the time to generate an image. And it's like, yeah, sure, that's something I can do. Instead of being like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You didn't ask to talk to the guy who can generate images. Like, uh, that guy's over there. It's like, is it all one thing or is it not? And it's clearly not.

• 5:56Jordi Hays?

  My criticism is just that the Gemini app still has a lot of bugs.

• 6:00John Coogan?

  It just has bugs.

• 6:01Jordi Hays?

  It just has bugs.

• 6:02John Coogan?

  It was also disconnecting for me for some reason.

• 6:03Jordi Hays?

  I can get over it.

• 6:04John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 6:04Jordi Hays?

  Uh, for now, because again, it's like, it's fast and smart. I was doing a search and I had to like. It was stuck in this limbo where it wasn't running the prompt, but it wouldn't let me run a new prompt. And I just had to basically rage quit and restart it and just copy and paste the prompt into a new box. So yeah, again, it's incredibly impressive. It's a great model, but at this point, it's just like opportunity to like get more competitive on the product side.

• 6:29John Coogan?

  Yeah, I was noticing even like just straight up disconnection errors. Like I would submit a prompt and then it felt like if I closed the app, it would get confused or something. And I don't understand that because it's just sending a little bit of text.

• 6:42Speaker 02

  Do you guys ever use the like voice to voice, like the real time audio thing on chat GPT?

• 6:46John Coogan?

  No, I don't like that at all.

• 6:47Speaker 02

  You've never used it?

• 6:47John Coogan?

  I've used it. I've used it a bunch. I've used all of them, but they're, there is just not the preferred way of interacting.

• 6:52Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, you, you were testing it out Tyler by talking with it for like eight hours a day, right?

• 6:57John Coogan?

  Yeah. And you were on the X dot XAI one?

• 7:01Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, with, with.

• 7:02John Coogan?

  Was that her name?

• 7:03Jordi Hays?

  Imagine running constantly with a VR headset.

• 7:06John Coogan?

  With a VR headset and a full immersive suit in a sensory deprivation tank. Yeah. No, no, why do you bring it up?

• 7:14Speaker 02

  I, I actually, I started using, I started using it like, um, it's pretty good.

• 7:18John Coogan?

  The Gemini app launched almost two years ago and there's still like rough edges in the UI, which I think is crazy. But it does seem like they have an opportunity to actually take some serious market share at this point. Like they've caught up on many different, uh, many different, um, values and like value props. My question was, I'm not the typical consumer, like I'm going to try every different app. Like I'll probably keep bouncing around. Um, I don't know if consumers will do the same broadly. There's, it's very, very clear that chat GPT is just synonymous with AI. And people are not like, oh, well, like the new benchmarks, I gotta like change my, you know, app. Like no, no one's thinking like that.

• 7:58John Coogan?

  The fragility in the chat GPT monopoly aggregator thesis that I was picking up on was for the last year, there have been a lot of features and, and like theses around different things that could create lock in. So stuff like personalization or, or your memory or, um,

• 8:19John Coogan?

  Or even like the chat functionality between what you've linked, your custom instructions, your, uh, the, the different, like, I think at this point I've synced ChatGPT or auth ChatGPT with a number of different services. I've given it even custom instructions, just saying like, "Hey, cool it on the M dashes." And I didn't miss any of that. It, it made me think like, maybe it's a little bit more fragile. Maybe, maybe there will be a little bit more of a duopoly. There, it won't be such a winner take all market. Even though it has been historically, it's, it, it, it has been up to this date. Google has now added $2 trillion to its market cap over the past 20 months since the boob shirt guy asked Sergey Brin about woke Gemini images while having a foot long subway cold cut trio

• 9:04John Coogan?

  for lunch. What is this video? Let's play this. I have no idea what's going on here.

• 9:09Speaker 03

  Is that my art? The back of, yeah. Okay. I wasn't really expecting to talk about this thing. But, uh, um, you know, we definitely messed up, uh, on the image generation. Um, and, um, I think it was mostly due to just like not thorough testing. Earning?

• 9:33John Coogan?

  It's a crazy shirt to be wearing. I don't even know how you get into a meeting with someone as powerful and wealthy as Sergey Brin.

• 9:41Jordi Hays?

  I think it's obvious. You just wear, you wear a jacket, you wear a jacket and you get in, it's hot, you take your jacket off, you're just.

• 9:51John Coogan?

  I was not expecting that. That is so insane. That's very, very funny.

• 9:55Jordi Hays?

  It's a Bay Area thing, John. Yeah, it's notable. I mean, the stocks jumped 6% today. Barron's put out a report today just saying, the title is buy Google stock.

• 10:06John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 10:06Jordi Hays?

  Alphabet has been the clear AI winner, which is just funny because. Earlier this year, like, people weren't saying, people were saying they're the AI loser.

• 10:16John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 10:17Jordi Hays?

  So Barron's is saying, actually, they have been.

• 10:19John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 10:20Jordi Hays?

  They have been the clear AI winner.

• 10:21John Coogan?

  OpenAI's hardware division, says Mark Gurman, built around Johnny Ive's secretive startup, has ramped up the hiring of Apple engineers. The group has brought on about forty new people in the last month or so, with many of them coming from Apple's hardware group.

• 10:35Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, hearing that Schulto interview, I'm disappointed. I don't think we're getting ads from Anthropic anytime soon, and I don't think we're gonna get a mobile device.

• 10:43John Coogan?

  Forty people, that does not seem like cause for concern for Apple. I mean, I can't imagine how big their hardware group is, but it has to be, you know, in the thousands, I would imagine.

• 10:54Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, let's try to find out.

• 10:55John Coogan?

  It's a huge organization. So OpenAI is poaching left and right from Apple's hardware engineering group, hiring around forty directors, managers, and engineers in the last month from nearly every relevant Apple department. Mark Gurman says it's remarkable. So from what I've heard, this is Mark Gurman, "Apple is none too pleased about OpenAI's poaching, and some consider it a problem. The hires include key directors, a fairly senior designation, as well as managers and engineers, and they hail from a wide range of areas: camera engineering, iPhone hardware, Mac hardware, silicon, device testing, and reliability, industrial design, manufacturing, audio, smartwatches, Vision Pro development, software." They got one from every single, they sampled every single, every single division, I suppose.

• 11:37Jordi Hays?

  Gemini is estimating that Apple has between fifteen thousand and twenty thousand hardware engineers in total.

• 11:43John Coogan?

  Fifteen thousand? That seems like a lot. I don't know. In other words, OpenAI is picking up people from nearly every relevant department. "It's remarkable," says Mark Gurman. I wonder how the comp's structured, how everything will come together on those teams. I mean, there's a lot of people from Apple who go over to OpenAI. It's a greenfield project, probably really fun, probably really exciting, probably not the most mercenary scenario.

• 12:08Jordi Hays?

  If you're working at Apple and you're excited about AI. And you've been there for

• 12:13John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 12:13Jordi Hays?

  The last three years, watching all this progress happen.

• 12:17John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 12:18Jordi Hays?

  At the application layer, the model layer, and not being thrilled with the progress happening at the hardware layer. This is like a

• 12:24John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 12:24Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, just a wide open opportunity to like be working right at that intersection of the of the models and the hardware.

• 12:33John Coogan?

  There's a lot of AI engineers who have made moves because they don't want to be a GPU poor company. And it's weird because Apple's in this in this scenario where they're partnering with Gemini now. They're clearly going to survive. It's not a serious threat, at least not yet, maybe if this this device is incredible. But right now, Apple looks pretty strong. From an AI perspective, it's got to be one of the worst gigs because you were in this sort of like openly hostile environment. Two LLMs, two scaling, two building large GPU clusters. And then, yeah, they're sort of playing catch up now, but they're certainly not calling up Oracle for, you know, a trillion dollars of compute. Sam Altman replied to one of our cards we put up on November 22nd.

• 13:18John Coogan?

  And Sam Altman replied and said, cannot believe this was only two years ago. Subjectly, subjectively feels like five. Yeah, what a turnaround to go from from defenestrated to back in the back in the seat and so much and have so much control over the organization that you're able to raise at massive valuations, strike a broker all these deals, move the entire market. Just a remarkable run.

• 13:43Jordi Hays?

  Put on, put on such a master class in in deal making that people are now sitting here being like, there's no way that this would be a $500 billion company if Sam wasn't in the driver's seat.

• 13:56John Coogan?

  This is like a very like hacker news and turmoil segment, but I reverse engineered 200 AI startups. 146 are selling you repackage ChatGPT and Claude with new UI. Basically, the thesis of this article is that this fellow wrote a piece of of code that looks at the marketing copy and says, what are they claiming? And then looks at the call. That happen when you actually interact with their AI features. So if there's a chatbot on this particular startup's website and you are near chatting with it and you look into the into the trace that's happening in Chrome, is it going to the startup server or is it going to OpenAI server? Or is it going to Anthropic server? That's telling.

• 14:41John Coogan?

  And then there's also a little bit of API fingerprinting. Basically, OpenAI has a specific pattern of of rate limiting and it's exponential. So if you're spamming the OpenAI API according to a unique pattern, tell you, hey, you've you've sent too many messages. Cool off for one minute. And then the next time you do it, cool off for two minutes. The next time, cool off for four minutes, then eight minutes, then sixteen, right? And it gets exponentially longer. The shape of that curve and the specific timings are unique to OpenAI. And so if I'm a startup and I have the exact same backoff and timeout curve, well, then it's probably just OpenAI under the hood. At least that's the that's the claim that's being made here. And so the finding in this article is that seventy three percent

• 15:27John Coogan?

  had a significant gap between the claimed technology and the actual implementation. And so out of the two hundred AI startups that this fellow analyzed, fifty four companies either had accurate technical claims. They said, hey, we're using like we have a custom AI model that we trained and they did. Or they're transparent about their stack. They say, hey, this is a wrapper, like we're a wrapper company. And so, you know, our AI is powered by ChatGPT. We're partnered with OpenAI, we're partnered with Anthropic or whatever. Now, one hundred and forty six companies, that's seventy three percent.

• 16:00Jordi Hays?

  It's a very cool study, but there's tracks with exactly like I would guess that seventy three percent of AI startups are just reskinning.

• 16:09John Coogan?

  Yes, and so nineteen percent of the overall companies, the thirty eight that were analyzed in this study, found that when that the startup said they had in-house models and it was actually fine-tuned public models. So so this this author claims that after posting this, seven founders reached out privately, some were defensive, some were grateful. They asked for help transitioning their marketing from proprietary AI to built with the best in class APIs. One VC reached out and said like, I'd like you to audit my portfolio because I have been told that I was investing in companies that were training their own AI. And I made the investment on that.

• 16:50John Coogan?

  Assumption, and if I'm being lied to, then that's potentially, that's potentially securities fraud. I mean, I've, I've seen pitches for companies that where they've said like proudly, like you, you should invest in this because we're not training our own model. It would actually be a mistake. And you, and there's another company that's a competitor to us that is training their own model. And you don't want to invest in them. You want to invest in us because we're going to burn your dollars. Yeah, we're going to much better economics. Timeline isn't turmoil over nucleus for IVF. And he put up a subway campaign that says IQ is 50% genetic. Height is 80% genetic. I completely disagree with that one. It's entirely skill-based for me.

• 17:27Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 17:27John Coogan?

  I had, the genes did not matter. I had to grind for this view, grind my growth plates. Uh, have your best baby is what it says. And it says IVF done right in the subway, uh, all over New York City.

• 17:40Jordi Hays?

  I think it was intentionally trying to make some percentage of the population angry.

• 17:46John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 17:47Jordi Hays?

  To drive enough energy and attention. I would call it rage bait.

• 17:51John Coogan?

  So I would call it rage bait marketing, not necessarily.

• 17:54Jordi Hays?

  Not at the product level.

• 17:55John Coogan?

  But IVF as a category is a controversial category. It's much easier to wrap it in a campaign that will go viral for upsetting reasons. For you can upset people and you can get a lot of attention from that. This is an example from Kath Koravec. She says, so Eugenics is profitable now? And so, uh, being able to rap something that is just a, you know, a scientific process that's been worked on for a long time.

• 18:21Jordi Hays?

  Seems to be somewhat friend.com inspired. And apparently they're not actually, they're not able to offer the service in New York.

• 18:28John Coogan?

  So it's really just an image of a controversial phrase on a New York subway is more likely to go viral. So you do it there because it looks like you're on the global stage.

• 18:36Jordi Hays?

  There's a high density of people that have a, a large following.

• 18:39John Coogan?

  Audience, yeah, following. And so it's just the way to start a viral, viral trend and own the moment. It's the reason why, you know, so many TikTokers are in Manhattan now doing stuff like man on the streets stuff. It just like. It has more like aura almost. Every biotech founder should be seeing this and understanding how to get one tenth the mind share of Nucleus. I have a playbook for you below. A lot of people are like, I love the playbook. I don't love this example because the company's getting dragged. I don't know if it's good or bad with the rage bait thing. I think usually it's a, it's a negative thing. But it's a big, it's a big debate because Sishwan Mala posted a long essay all about the claims made by Nucleus.

• 19:22John Coogan?

  Keon says, everything levied unto Nucleus by Sishwan Mala is false, worse than false. It appears to be architected by a competitor that has repeatedly published misstatements and inaccuracies. Sishwan is compromised. But it gets worse.

• 19:35Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, to be clear, no evidence has been provided that, that it was being levied by a competitor. That's purely an allegation that has, there's no proof.

• 19:44John Coogan?

  Yes, yes, exactly.

• 19:45Jordi Hays?

  Thing here is, is it appears that the customer reviews

• 19:51John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 19:52Jordi Hays?

  are potentially fictitious. And if you're selling a service that allows people to pick their baby and you're, and you're showing reviews from happy customers that may or may not be real people at all, that just feels deeply wrong. So I think that one of the first things that they could have done, I don't believe they have, is just say like, no, our reviews are real. We use AI imagery because the real people didn't, didn't want their identity online tied to this service, right? For privacy reasons. One of the core tensions in this industry is the fact that most companies recognize they're working on an incredibly sensitive topic.

• 20:34Jordi Hays?

  They know the general population will need to be slowly and tactfully acclimated to the idea of advanced family planning. Nucleus is perceived as polluting the commons with their deliberately inflammatory marketing. Their virality comes at the cost of increased skepticism for the whole industry.

• 20:50John Coogan?

  A lot of folks were not very happy about that.

• 20:53Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, they also apparently, apparently they hired two people that had a non-compete for 18 months. Those people just immediately started on working on Nucleus. Nucleus claimed that they weren't competitive, so the, the non-compete didn't apply. Anyways, very messy, very messy, messy story if I'm a potential customer of Nucleus at this point. And I see just these series of exchanges. I'm certainly gonna wait and see how things evolve versus signing up to use this service. The latest Nano Banana model has officially crossed the line. I no longer implicitly trust photos anymore. And sometimes I can't even definitively claim it's AI now. I totally agree. I saw this picture.

• 21:35John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 21:35Jordi Hays?

  And my first thought was like, that's gotta be AI.

• 21:39John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 21:39Jordi Hays?

  Specifically because I don't think Sam is just walking down the Golden Gate Bridge in the middle of the day.

• 21:45John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 21:45Jordi Hays?

  Uh, it's like probably terrible from a security standpoint.

• 21:49John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 21:49Jordi Hays?

  Um, but, but it looks photorealistic.

• 21:52John Coogan?

  If you put the photo into Gemini, uh, Gemini will tell you, if you say, is this AI? Gemini will tell you, yes, according to the synth ID water molecule detection tool, this image was generated in whole or in part with Google AI. Of course, we've seen previous, uh, previous images where if you turn up the contrast and the saturation all the way, you can see kind of the rainbow, uh, like, like, like zebra pattern basically that's embedded in there very subtly. But yeah, I mean, this is, this is, uh, pretty, pretty photoreal. Uh, and so, you know, stay safe out there.

• 22:24Jordi Hays?

  Joe, why isn't Thal asked Nano Banana to create a really annoying LinkedIn profile?

• 22:29John Coogan?

  That's what I was talking about.

• 22:30Jordi Hays?

  And I couldn't tell, is this a real person?

• 22:32John Coogan?

  I have no idea because the, at this point, we're way past the Turing test for, for images in the sense that this looks perfectly edited, but, uh, this could also just be a straight up screenshot. I would need to fact check this.

• 22:45Jordi Hays?

  I don't do small talk.

• 22:47John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 22:47Jordi Hays?

  I do deep dives. My journey is a quantum leap through the liminal spaces of tech and spirituality. Chief visionary officer, TEDx speaker, professional storyteller, democratizing the metaverse one DAO at a time. 10x growth alchemist.

• 23:02John Coogan?

  What's up with, uh, Brian Johnson? He's starting a new protocol. Is he going to, uh, Taco Bell drive through? Is this a real photo? Is this, is this AI again?

• 23:10Jordi Hays?

  This has to be AI.

• 23:11John Coogan?

  That's a very funny, funny photo. This was my take was that, uh, you know, if he's really changed by his journey, he must come out of it liking at least one fast food restaurant. And Alexis says, those shrooms spiritually healed him in a way that has him living moss now.

• 23:27Jordi Hays?

  Living moss.

• 23:28John Coogan?

  The live moss tagline was really fantastic, really good.

• 23:32Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. Guy who doesn't want to be old. It seems like we'll get age reversing tech right when I'll be old. How favorable. Guy who thinks it is different this time, but this time it's different.

• 23:41John Coogan?

  This is insane.

• 23:43Jordi Hays?

  Uh, Amy Gurley, huge congratulations to Bill Gurley for receiving the Texas distinguished alumnus award. A remarkable honor for a remarkable longhorn. Congratulations, Bill. Well, well, well deserved.

• 23:57Speaker 02

  Congratulations.

• 23:58Jordi Hays?

  This, this made my day.

• 24:00John Coogan?

  Everyone was, everyone was wondering if he was going to make it.

• 24:03Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, it was kind of the elephant in the room.

• 24:04John Coogan?

  It was hugely, hotly debated. There was, there are a lot, what? $10 million in liquidity betting on this? Whether or not he would make it.

• 24:11Jordi Hays?

  Probably.

• 24:11John Coogan?

  Million, hundreds of millions?

• 24:13Jordi Hays?

  It was sort of the longhorn in the room.

• 24:15John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. It was, it was a huge deal, but he did it. He pulled it off. Keller said that he's launched zipping points. He can pick up packages and deliver them autonomously with the zip line autonomous drones. This is the, this is the private plane for your burrito, folks. It's arrived. We're here, we're in the future.

• 24:32Jordi Hays?

  Future is here.

• 24:32John Coogan?

  Future plane, the, the flying car is here and it will deliver you Chipotle in 15 minutes, in four minutes while it's still warm. Uh, so here's a zip grabbing a package from one of our restaurant partners. It'll take so many cars off the road over the coming years. That's great news for environmentalists, for congestion, for anyone who wants to be able to, uh, really let it loose on the roads. If we're getting less congestion, maybe the speed limit goes up to 80 miles an hour, maybe 120, maybe 160. Maybe we get up to 200 and you can really let it loose.

• 25:07Jordi Hays?

  Well, you need to prove that you're at a certain address in order to get stuff delivered there because

• 25:12John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 25:13Jordi Hays?

  Such a funny dimension to mess with people and just be like, hey, look on your lawn. And there's just like, uh, there's like a

• 25:19John Coogan?

  A burrito?

• 25:19Jordi Hays?

  A burrito, just chilling there.

• 25:21John Coogan?

  Well, people do that with pizzas, right? They prank call, I'd like a dozen pizzas delivered to this address. I'll pay in cash. This is like a famous prank. And then you show up and it's like, I don't need all these pizzas. I'm being pranked. Imagine how cool it will be to shoot one of these out of the sky to get a free meal. Uh, go and hunt in for your Chipotle burrito. Uh, that of course is extremely cyberpunk and hilarious, but it will be massively illegal. We're regulated by the FAA. So the consequences are similar to shooting at a 737 as it's taking off from the airport. Not a good idea. Also, communities love the service. And I imagine he's not, he's not saying the, the, the, the details, but if you shoot at a 737 as it's taking out from an airport, I think you're going to jail for a long time.

• 26:05John Coogan?

  And I think, uh, you will not just be able to shoot one of these out of the sky and pick up a free burrito with a 22. Thank you for supporting us, listening to the show. Uh, wherever you listen, leave us five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. We will be off on Wednesday and Thursday. No show Wednesday, no, no show Thursday, but we will be back on Friday for Black Friday. And we will be taking you on a whirlwind tour of the e-commerce world. We have some very exciting stuff planned for that. So we'll see you tomorrow.

• 26:35Jordi Hays?

  See you at 11.

• 26:36John Coogan?

  Goodbye.

• 26:36Jordi Hays?

  Cheers.