Wednesday’s Diet TBPN

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00John Coogan?

  What's going on over there, Jordy? You got caught lacking?

• 0:03Jordi Hays?

  I was publishing an essay.

• 0:05John Coogan?

  You were publishing an essay. It's live on X now. You can go listen to it. You can also subscribe at tbpn.com. Our Substack will email you every morning with the TBPN newsletter and, you know, 500 words from me or Jordy. It's a lot of fun. Go check it out. The thing that got Jordy to learn to type was this video, this launch video. You were like, I gotta write an essay. I gotta learn. I gotta lock in. I gotta learn how to write because

• 0:34Jordi Hays?

  I gotta respond.

• 0:35John Coogan?

  This is, this is, uh, it's, it's enraged me. Were you enraged?

• 0:39Jordi Hays?

  I wasn't enraged. I try not to let the internet make me mad.

• 0:42John Coogan?

  Okay, but they were trying to enrage you and the fact that they tried made you angry. I'd love to watch the Chad IDE Brainrot Code Editor video. First, I want to see, I want to see the video for myself. Let's play it.

• 0:59John Coogan?

  Okay, so he's got some Newport cigarettes. He's packing, pulls out a cigarette.

• 1:05Jordi Hays?

  With the Stanford.

• 1:06John Coogan?

  Lights it up. He's got the cutoff.

• 1:08Jordi Hays?

  Stanford cutoffs.

• 1:09John Coogan?

  What is this music that's playing? He's got the guitar in the background. And what is he playing? Some sort of plink?

• 1:15Jordi Hays?

  This is steak.

• 1:17John Coogan?

  Oh, this is steak. Okay, so this is gambling. So he's gambling and

• 1:21Jordi Hays?

  He's gambling in the IDE.

• 1:26John Coogan?

  Okay, so I assume, I assume that means he's won something or other.

• 1:31John Coogan?

  I actually don't know what the steak UI looks like. Okay, so he's done winning. He has won the gambling session with steak and now he's back in his IDE. And he writes a prompt and he says, test the code and it pulls up some sort of mobile game that it's playing. Do you, do you know?

• 1:48Jordi Hays?

  This is Clash Royale.

• 1:49John Coogan?

  This is Clash Royale. Okay.

• 1:51Jordi Hays?

  Have you played? I have played, uh, in middle school, yeah. So I'll start by saying I think the video is funny.

• 1:57John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 1:58Jordi Hays?

  And I'm sure the founders are smart for a low budget launch video. I think they did well. They broke through.

• 2:03John Coogan?

  That is a very low budget launch video. That literally cost nothing.

• 2:06Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 2:07John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 2:07Jordi Hays?

  So I think that's great. And I'm not, and I want to be clear that I'm not bearish on the founders at all. But yesterday, YC announced Chad IDE, AKA the brain rot code editor. Chad is an AI code editor that allows you to gamble, watch TikTok and use dating apps while you work on coding tasks. Their launch rightfully got a lot of attention. On one hand, it's funny. On the other hand, what are we doing here? And why does this belong in the official YC account? To understand Chad IDE, Clouly, Icon, Friend and the new class of Gen Z startups, you have to understand the online environment that these founders grew up in. If you grew up on the internet and you studied how and why certain people would regularly go viral, you know that making people mad has and always will be an effective way to get attention.

• 2:51Jordi Hays?

  The feedback loop is simple. You make something that makes people angry and people comment, share and dunk. And because feeds are optimized to show posts with high engagement the most, you get a lot of reach. Rage baiting for commercial purposes, in my view, was pioneered by course bros. People like Tai Lopez realized that making the masses mad was an effective way to drive course sales. You could flaunt Lamborghinis, make a bunch of people angry. And as long as a handful of people found their way into their course, it was a viable, repeatable strategy. Historically on X, rage baiting was a marketing strategy, not a product strategy. Accounts like Sweaty Startup, AKA Nick Huber, frequently post things to get an angry reaction and the subsequent reach. But behind the scenes, Nick has always been running a pretty normal commercial real estate fund.

• 3:34Jordi Hays?

  In 2025, rage baiting has become a product strategy. Clouly started as an app for cheating on coding interviews. Chad IDE's only known differentiation from the other 100 AI-native IDEs is that you can gamble and swipe on dating apps in it. It's becoming clear that while rage bait might occasionally work as a marketing strategy, it really should not be employed as a product strategy. Running a successful VC-backed company requires you to build a coalition of people that want to see you win. Getting media, investors, talent and customers on your side is not an easy task. Rage baiting, whether at the marketing level or product level, is the most effective way to get people who could be potential investors, customers, or team members to actively prey on your downfall. YC has long provided some of the most durable, high-quality, generalizable advice for startups,

• 4:17Jordi Hays?

  and I believe that it has had a tremendously positive impact on the companies that go through YC and even those that don't. Launch now, make something people want, do things that don't scale, ignore your competitors, or just some of those. So as someone who believes that YC is one of the most important and influential institutions in tech, I believe it might be time to include this in their list of essential startup advice. Rage baiting is for losers. But I do think it's notable that rage bait has moved from kind of a fringe marketing strategy to a marketing strategy within tech to now living at the product level. And I just don't think that's going to create a lot of enduring value for the companies that pursue that strategy.

• 4:57John Coogan?

  Yes, so the reaction to this was very negative, and I think there's a few, it really has to do with that layer of the stack.

• 5:04Jordi Hays?

  And it also reflects, it ends up impacting the brands of the firms that fund these ideas.

• 5:09John Coogan?

  Of course, the most important thing in your piece that I liked was this idea that there is rage bait marketing, doing a stunt, doing something a little bit crazy, but then delivering a quality product is separate from making the product itself rage baity. And so I think a lot of people, when they saw this video, they wanted, they were wondering, what does the product actually do? Because all you've told me is that you created an April Fool's joke, and Google's been doing April Fool's jokes for years. The question for me, and the question I had for Tyler, was what's actually under the hood at Chad IDE? The company is not called Chad IDE, it's called Clad Labs.

• 5:53John Coogan?

  The steel man here is that, hey, IDEs are boring, you gotta do something funny, film a funny video, create a fake product, but then have something under the hood that is actually real, that does actually advance the conversation, and is maybe something that a real product would-

• 6:10Jordi Hays?

  Tyler, try to sign up and need a code. Think this would have been a brilliant kind of like stunt.

• 6:15John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 6:15Jordi Hays?

  If they did it as a stunt and it wasn't core to the brand that they're building. It wasn't core to the product.

• 6:21John Coogan?

  If it was April Fool's and and Michael Truell at Cursor or Scott Wu with Windsurf were like, we're doing, we're doing a brain rot version of the IDE. Everyone would be like, that's hilarious. Okay, now back to using Windsurf and Cursor, right?

• 6:34Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, so, so I go to the website. Um, you can't download it yet because it's still in beta. You need, you need a code. I DM the founders, but they didn't get back to me. Um, the, the company is not Chad Labs. It's Clad Labs.

• 6:43John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 6:44Speaker 02

  This like, it's the Chad IDE, but like, this is obviously a marketing stunt. I, I kind of disagree.

• 6:49John Coogan?

  Yeah, but can you get a product from Clad Labs? Like, Google would come out with a joke, you know, uh, pigeon-based algorithm or something like that. That would be out or like, Google Translate for animals would be at like, animals.google translate.com that day. But Google Translate would still work. So like, walk me through the Clad Labs product. Like, what is their core product outside of the stunt?

• 7:12Speaker 02

  When you go to the download page, there's options like which brain rot do you want?

• 7:15John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  And it's like, uh, you know, steak or like Minecraft parkour or whatever. And then there's an option that says, I don't want brain rot.

• 7:21John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  There's obviously a product here. This is a marketing stunt. I like, believe that.

• 7:26John Coogan?

  Okay. Met a very successful founder who said, I chose fund blank, uh, because they gave me credibility when I needed it. Now the fund backs everything, including the dumbest ideas I've ever seen. I don't think the next wave of founders will pick them. The credibility they had is gone. And I was thinking about how AUM weighted brain rot or AUM weighted slop is not an excuse for slop and, and controversial investments. If you put 1% of your fund into something that is just going to go all over the internet and be like, we are the most degenerate. We're the craziest. We're the most insane. We're the most fraudulent, like in-your-face company.

• 8:06John Coogan?

  Even if it's only 1% of your fund, you're not going to be able to say like, no, no, no, 99% of my investments are just like, you know, trying to cure cancer genuinely, or like actually trying to improve developer productivity. Or like 99% of my investments are just reasonable down the fairway, like good businesses. I took a flyer. 1% is a little bit crazy. Well, if that 1% gets a thousand times more views than your enterprise SaaS portfolio, like you're going to be known as the slop fund. So like, you need to be careful about that.

• 8:33Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, you know, one of YC's challenges as an institution. Is that they can only accept something like, I think it's like less than one, isn't it less than 1%?

• 8:42John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 8:42Jordi Hays?

  So, super small, you know, very, very low acceptance rate.

• 8:47John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 8:47Jordi Hays?

  And so if you're a founder that applied with an idea that you think is, you know, world positive, and then you see them announcing this kind of stuff, those founders are going to be even more frustrating.

• 8:56Speaker 02

  Say that I have some new way to do, you know, agents in my editor.

• 9:02John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 9:02Speaker 02

  And it's like, it actually works way better than Cursor, it's way better than Win Surfers, but better than everything else. And I apply to YC with this thing. Okay, there's like probably, what, like 10 other YC companies that are like little YC companies in the same batch, doing similar, you know, coding editor stuff. How do I differentiate myself? I feel like this is like fairly reasonable. Okay, we get some users that are, think it's like funny to gamble in their IDE, and then they realize like, oh, this is actually a pretty useful feature.

• 9:26John Coogan?

  Hmm.

• 9:26Speaker 02

  Jordy, if you were in YC and you had a coding editor company, how do you like recommend, like, instead of doing stuff like this, how do you, how do they differentiate?

• 9:35Jordi Hays?

  Back to what I said, which was, which was separate out the rage from the core product and have it be like a marketing stunt. I still think you could have gotten the same amount of attention, but then people would go in and they'd be like, wait, this is actually a really cool.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  But I, I don't think we know for sure that they're not doing that.

• 9:51John Coogan?

  Like, there is no real product here. And that's, and that's what Jordy's risk is, is that they haven't built anything behind the scenes. It's all marketing, it's all stunt. The product you're making is to help people gamble, and gambling is bad. And so if you're anti-gambling, you are anti this product that they built, and they, and they, now they have the opportunity to say, no, no, no, like, here's the real thing, and they haven't done that yet. It would have been so easy if at that end of that video, been like, that's what people feel like Gen Z entrepreneurs built.

• 10:23Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 10:23John Coogan?

  But we didn't want to do that, so we actually built this.

• 10:25Speaker 02

  Let's pull this video. But I'm not gonna, I wanna try the, I don't wanna gamble, but I wanna see it actually like in the IDE. That's like funny.

• 10:32Jordi Hays?

  Tips to apply at YC Batch Winner 2026. And I think, I think Sharav is a literal, is a literal child.

• 10:40John Coogan?

  Good job.

• 10:41Speaker 03

  First tip, you should have some clear goals in mind, like what you should do after. And you should have at least

• 10:49John Coogan?

  I can barely hear this, but

• 10:50Jordi Hays?

  Okay, we can pause it. But the reason, the reason I included this is because I think there's a lot of people like Shirav and tons of young people that look to Y C as whatever Y C is promoting, they approve. And so I just, I want to avoid a scenario where the Shiravs of the world think that they need to rate, put rage bait in order to break out in this industry. It's not the reality. You can just build a great product. Uh, you can get, let that speak for itself. You can find ways to market it along the way. Albi, uh, who is a 14 year old applying for Y C went extremely viral earlier this week, got 3.6 million views.

• 11:23John Coogan?

  Wow.

• 11:24Jordi Hays?

  14 year old founder.

• 11:26Speaker 04

  I'm Albi. I'm 14 and I'm based in Sydney, Australia. I've been building things ever since I was six or seven.

• 11:34Speaker 04

  Don't get the joke.

• 11:35John Coogan?

  Really good editing.

• 11:37Speaker 04

  Well, I've been building things ever since I was nine. First writing code at Code Camps, then building Roblox games and even launching a soccer gear brand when I was 12.

• 11:45John Coogan?

  Wait, did you edit this? We gotta hire this guy to edit for us.

• 11:48Speaker 04

  A game of learning platform where teens learn the real world skills that school forgot. Like entrepreneurship, coding, AI, content creation, et cetera. Instead of boring textbooks, you level up, earn XP and unlock challenges as you go. All while learning from top founders, creators, innovators and other young people doing amazing things. I started Finkel because school wasn't teaching me or my friends how to actually build, create or launch something in the real world.

• 12:12Jordi Hays?

  Teddy says my default reply to high schoolers hitting me up for V C funding is put me on the phone with your parents.

• 12:16John Coogan?

  You're supposed to just turn on the webcam and basically just talk for one minute. That's how you apply to Y C.

• 12:21Jordi Hays?

  One shot it.

• 12:22John Coogan?

  Yeah, you're supposed to just one shot it, no editing, because they don't want it to turn into, oh, to apply to Y C, you spend two weeks doing an edited video. They're like, no, work on your product. And then the marketing is like the last little cherry on top. Like, that's always been the Y C mantra. And that's a little bit of like this Cloud Labs thing, although the weird thing is like the video, I love the video. It's funny and it's cheap and it's clearly just like a bit and they did it and it was two seconds, but then it feels like, like

• 12:47Jordi Hays?

  They did products.

• 12:47John Coogan?

  They didn't, they didn't give me the payoff of like, oh, okay, you guys are funny and you're working on something cool and interesting and hard. Ev Randall, who's coming on the show on Friday, went on Harry Stebbing's show 20 VC is putting the timeline in turmoil over some comments about other funds.

• 13:04Speaker 05

  I don't think Ravi or Hamant or even Ben and Mark at this point, I don't think that they can go to LPs, one of those legs of the stool and say, hey, this, this basket of funds that we're making you invest Paripisoo across, we're going to get you 5X net on that. I don't think they can say that, or they at least can't say that with a straight face. And if you look at the recent return data, I think it suggests that. So I think they'll be able to make an immense amount of money on an absolute basis, but I think a lot of these LPs are in the business to make, or in venture to make high money on money returns. Like they had PE for the low return stuff and they probably get better liquidity from PE. They're here for the high money on money returns. And this is one of the reasons why I'm extremely excited about benchmark's competitive position in today's market, because we can go to LPs, we can say, hey, we're shooting for higher than 5X net.

• 13:49Speaker 05

  We have the historical track record to back it up and we have the fund sizes to back it up as well. I mean, you had Miles from Carnegie Mellon come on here and do the awesome math and the very clear math of, hey, do you know how hard it is to return 4X net on $8 billion, $10 billion? It is immensely hard and it's, it like defies the laws of physics. So I think there's a difference between, are they going to make a ton of money and are they going to produce the returns that LPs really want this asset class to produce? Two very, very different things, but for now, like the rubber is, like the rubber won't meet the road because as you mentioned, there's just so much global demand from LPs for exposure to private technology and they are happy to take lower returns. And so I don't think there's any end in sight, but I think on a relative basis, between all of these different constituents and all these different GPs, there's a huge, huge

• 14:33Speaker 05

  delta and a huge differentiation between who can actually produce venture-like returns.

• 14:36John Coogan?

  Boo, he's not AGI pilled. Boo, 10X, you're going to 10X the fund, just 10X it again. Just 10X it again. 10X the fund, raise a $100 billion fund and 10X it. Just 10X it and we're going to 10X it again. No, obviously.

• 14:53Jordi Hays?

  Ev was on a little bit of damage control this morning.

• 14:55John Coogan?

  Wait, wait, so I want to hear what, what exactly did he say the first line? He says, they cannot go to LPs and say with a straight face that they can do 5X net. Can we play the actual clip? Cause I feel like that's not quite right. What did he say?

• 15:09Speaker 05

  I don't think Ravi or Hamant or even Ben and Mark at this point, I don't think that they can go to LPs, one of those legs of the stool.

• 15:15Jordi Hays?

  Said, I don't think they can go to LPs.

• 15:17Speaker 05

  And say, hey, this, this basket of funds that we're making you invest Paripisoo across, we're going to get you 5X net on that.

• 15:22John Coogan?

  We're going to get you 5X net. Yeah, because maybe they can go with a straight face and say, we're going to get you 6X net.

• 15:26Jordi Hays?

  Part of the the reality is I don't think no fund manager can really go to LPs and you can you can share that you you believe there's a chance we'll get a 5X net, but isn't it like

• 15:39John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 15:40Jordi Hays?

  99% of funds just don't come anywhere close to that?

• 15:44John Coogan?

  I think the broader point that he's making is something along the lines of like, I I saw some other posts about like, there will be fortunes made just by getting getting retail investors and the broader capital that's out there in the world into the private mag seven, the Open AIs, the Anthropics, the SpaceXs, the Andurals. There's a whole host of companies. There is a world where where you set up a fund that has lower return expectations, but also lower risk and it's a great deal and LPs love it. I don't know that it's that hot of a take, but it certainly certainly put the timeline in turmoil.

• 16:21Jordi Hays?

  Part of it is that Benchmark is feeling feeling pretty good right now. If you look at their 2020 fund, they have Merck four, they have fireworks. What's the other one? They have a bunch of like multi 10 baggers at this point in that fund. So they're feeling pretty good about going to LPs and saying, look, we still got it. Still cooking.

• 16:37John Coogan?

  To be clear, I slash we love working with our friends at all of these funds and this part was not meant as a slight slash commentary on the on their quality as investors, just POV on fund strategies and the unique value prop of Benchmark. I think it's I think it's a fair fair tweet, but it's it's amazing because everyone is coming out and just trash.

• 17:02Jordi Hays?

  Part of what made it feel super personal is that Harry tagged Robbie Robbie.

• 17:07John Coogan?

  Totally, totally, totally.

• 17:09Jordi Hays?

  And Ben.

• 17:09John Coogan?

  Yeah, we we act we actively try to avoid like tagging people if someone is talking trash about someone else or like sub tweeting them. We don't really try and like hand hold into drama since my former colleagues at A16Z are RIAs and thus cannot legally comment on what they can slash cannot say with a straight face to LPs. This sounds a lot like what crappy board members say when as an outside observer. They have zero clue what actually happens day to day in the business. Ev thinks he understands Andreessen's business, but in fact, he does not understand Andreessen's business. But I want to know, like, what is the misunderstanding? Because the steel man, the bull case on the Andreessen strategy is that Ev is making the claim that they will make more money dollars,

• 17:54John Coogan?

  total dollars, because they're investing out of a bigger fund size. They don't need to go and say, we're going to 5X it, so it's a different pool of LPs.

• 18:02Jordi Hays?

  Also, part of like the major appeal of investing in A16Z is that you pretty much know that you're going to get in every important company. That's my point of view. I'm not an LP, but I happily would be. And it's because you know you're going to get some exposure to pretty much every important company. Not necessarily always super early, but at some point in the company's life cycle, it's very likely that they will take a meaningful check from A16Z.

• 18:32John Coogan?

  What does Ev say? He says, "I think smaller constrained funds can produce higher returns in venture." Quote, "This must be a shitty board member. Don't work with him." Incredible non sequitur. Thanks, Scott.

• 18:45Jordi Hays?

  Meanwhile, over on X, people are saying, calling me unk. They're saying I'm a boomer.

• 18:51John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah?

• 18:51Jordi Hays?

  For my, for my posts, which I think is fair. But again, there's more nuance.

• 18:56John Coogan?

  During the clearly heyday, I would imagine that 80% of the team's hours were spent on marketing and 20% were spent on, on product, maybe. Now I think it's flipped, and I think that's very bullish. I think that's good. But Tyler, you had a rebuttal?

• 19:09Speaker 02

  This seems very different from, like, you see the gambling on your credit card statements or whatever, like, from other accelerators. Like, this feels very different. Like, this is like the marketing, like, I think people kind of tend to group all this stuff together, where it's like, like what Grant Daniel was talking about yesterday, where it's like, some of these are like immoral companies that you could say.

• 19:30John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 19:30Speaker 02

  I think this feels different than that.

• 19:33John Coogan?

  What if the whole, if the whole product is, and this is all we've, this is all we've seen, a VS code fork with minimal autocomplete, they're always, you know, a year or two or five behind Cursor and Windsurf. And yes, it has the ability to add Tinder and steak and sports betting in it. And like that, the product that they are telling us they're building is what they're building, and they stay with it for five years. Like, what do you say then?

• 20:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, then that's not good.

• 20:02John Coogan?

  Dwarash Patel, Dylan Patel, sat down with Satya Nadella, and they got an exclusive tour of Fairwater 2, the most powerful AI data center in the world.

• 20:12Speaker 02

  Maybe this is wrong, but I think Clauses 2 will be bigger. It's just currently it's not big. Like, this is the current.

• 20:18John Coogan?

  Current biggest.

• 20:18Speaker 02

  It's the current biggest.

• 20:19John Coogan?

  Okay, okay. So you had a, you had a chance to actually sit down and watch this whole interview before we started the show. Can you give me some takeaways? Where should people, are there any timestamps that we should pull up? Are there any takeaways that people should know before they go and watch it?

• 20:33Speaker 02

  It was pretty enlightening. I usually think of Satya as being very non-AGI-pilled. And I think this was a bit of an update. So there's, there's a bunch of reasons for this. I think so. So early on, he, like, in the very, I think it was one of the first questions. He's like, what is AI? AI is basically two things. This is Satya saying this. There's cognitive, like, enhancement. So this is like your, like, tools, or this is your autocomplete, this is your.

• 20:57John Coogan?

  Copilot.

• 20:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, copilot, stuff like this. And then there's like the guardian angel. And this is like the, the very AGI-pilled where, I mean, it's like, kind of lording over everything. And, and so he, he actually does like, say these two things are like very possible. Okay, so the next thing, he's talking about, kind of how he thinks about pricing structures of AI broadly. So there's this, this kind of conflict between subscription models and usage model of, of pricing. I think he's broadly more, kind of focused on, at least in the, in the short term, on the subscription kind of thing, right? Throughout the interview, he, he, he keeps emphasizing the point that like Microsoft is a hyperscaler. And so that means like a bunch of things. That means that they're gonna keep supporting multiple models.

• 21:37Speaker 02

  It means that they are going to, like, that they want to prioritize the kind of long tail of, like, high-margin users. Compare that to Oracle, who, you can think of Oracle as basically.

• 21:49Jordi Hays?

  Prioritizing one potentially low-margin.

• 21:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. You're, you're, you're giving bare metal, essentially, to one customer, OpenAI. All the big hyperscalers have their own chip play, right? There's training, there's TPUs. OpenAI is doing their own chip and Microsoft does have their own chip. The actual production is like way behind everyone else.

• 22:10John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 22:10Speaker 02

  And then Satya basically brings up that like Microsoft has IP to everything OpenAI has except for consumer hardware.

• 22:17Jordi Hays?

  Satya signaled that he's open to buying capacity from Neo clouds like Oracle, Nebius, Lambda, Iron, N scale.

• 22:25John Coogan?

  Isn't he already doing that?

• 22:26Jordi Hays?

  To fill the, yeah, he is, but, but he, he semi-analysis has a concept called like the pause, which is like basically a gap of like this like insane period of demand.

• 22:38John Coogan?

  Oh, right now.

• 22:38Jordi Hays?

  Meet that demand.

• 22:39John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 22:40Jordi Hays?

  And Satya actually says specifically, you're right, you're rightfully calling out the pause in the interview.

• 22:46John Coogan?

  Interesting.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  The like chip question is also like very important because you can think of it like if you build a bunch of data centers right now, they need, they have very specific like power requirements that are directly based on the chip. Like if you're building based off the H100 chip, that's different than if you're building a data center based off GB200s. And it's like there, you can't really, it's not like fungible, like you can't just trade one out for another. So that, that's another one of the reasons why you don't want to basically have insane build out right now because you think, you don't think, you know that chips are going to get much better.

• 23:16John Coogan?

  Sure, especially with like ASICs, right?

• 23:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. And Nvidia is like constantly, they're saying, we got this next chip coming out.

• 23:21John Coogan?

  Yep, yep, yep.

• 23:22Speaker 02

  You want to build up your data center with those chips because otherwise they're going to depreciate and you're going to have these basically data centers in like five years that like are using, you know, the old gen chips or two generations back.

• 23:33John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:35Jordi Hays?

  Anything on depreciation?

• 23:36Speaker 02

  He gives like two reasons how you can justify data centers, right? Because data center are basically depreciating in like five years or the chips, which is a big part of the, the cost. There's basically two ways to like justify the actual build out. One of them is basically you can think of like research as just being like R and D spend. And the other is just like, everything has to be like super demand driven. So that's also why he's not, it's like, again, in comparison to Oracle, Oracle is basically, maybe you could say that they're kind of skating to where the puck is going or trying to figure that out and then. Doing a bunch of debt, et cetera. And then Microsoft Satya is saying, no, where is demand right now? How do we fulfill that demand?

• 24:13John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 24:14Speaker 02

  Basically, exactly. If we're not fully built up, then we can, you know, lease from the, you know, Neo clouds.

• 24:20John Coogan?

  Yeah, makes sense.

• 24:21Speaker 02

  Okay, one last thing. Dorakesh asks Satya, like, does he buy basically the revenue growth of like when OpenAI or Anthropic says they're going to be like 70, 100 billion in like three years? He's like, well, you know, they have to justify their fundraise somehow. And then he basically doesn't say much else besides that.

• 24:38John Coogan?

  Wow, Satya, absolute dog. I love him. He's the best.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  Another thing that I was, I was surprised to hear is that Satya, he made a big point of saying that like, there is a super intelligence lab within Microsoft. They're going to be training their own models.

• 24:53Jordi Hays?

  That's why I've always felt like the dynamic between OpenAI and Microsoft is so interesting because OpenAI just has massive ambitions in the enterprise. They want to create, Sam, you know, alluded to a AI native Slack recently. Microsoft has Teams.

• 25:07John Coogan?

  Teams.

• 25:07Jordi Hays?

  Imagine those competing.

• 25:08John Coogan?

  It's going to be AI native.

• 25:08Jordi Hays?

  You can imagine OpenAI having like word processing.

• 25:13John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 25:13Jordi Hays?

  Excel-like product, you know, you can imagine them ultimately competing on like every single layer, including at the, eventually at the cloud layer.

• 25:21John Coogan?

  Have you ever done illegal drugs, Tyler? Answer the question.

• 25:25Speaker 02

  No.

• 25:26John Coogan?

  Answer the question.

• 25:27Jordi Hays?

  Good answer.

• 25:28John Coogan?

  Who's your favorite host? Me or Jordy? Answer the question. Answer the question.

• 25:32Speaker 02

  I'm my favorite host.

• 25:33John Coogan?

  Oh, taking shots. An emotional and expressive robot to reshape our attachment to technology. Is this a CGI vibe reel or is this a real product?

• 25:44Speaker 02

  I don't, it's pretty cool. I don't know.

• 25:45John Coogan?

  It's weird. It just feels cool.

• 25:47Speaker 02

  A cool thing to have. There was, um.

• 25:49John Coogan?

  Put a speaker on it.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  I'm like 90% sure it's real. There was a Apple research paper that came out like, I don't know, six months ago. And it was all about like expressive robots.

• 25:58John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 25:58Speaker 02

  And they had a bunch of like demos and stuff and how they could build this stuff.

• 26:01John Coogan?

  Wow. Okay. This is, this is very cool. Uh, I, I have been delight baited. I have not been rage baited by this. Rigetti, what an opportunity. Ka-ching. Buy IBM.

• 26:13Jordi Hays?

  What does that even mean?

• 26:15John Coogan?

  Kramer posts like a crazy amount. I mean, he's got 2.3 million followers. He's posting like every half hour. That's our show for today.

• 26:23Jordi Hays?

  I do not tolerate Kramer slander.

• 26:26John Coogan?

  Yeah, no, no.

• 26:27Jordi Hays?

  I think he.

• 26:28John Coogan?

  He's, he's entertaining. He's insightful. He's controversial. He's a total package. We love Kramer here. I took delivery of a beautiful shiny new HW4 Tesla Model X today. I like this hardware for, he cares about the chip inside that thing. He doesn't care about what the light bar on the front is, or the door handles, or whether the doors go up. Andre Karpathik cares about the, the GPU inside. So I immediately took it out for an FSD test drive, a bit like I used to do almost daily for five years. Basically, I'm amazed. It drives really, really well, really smooth, confident, noticeably better than what I'm used to on HW3, my previous car, and Elon's eons and, and eons ahead of the version. I remember driving up Highway

• 27:10John Coogan?

  280 on my first day at Tesla nine years ago, where I had to intervene every time the road mildly curved or sloped on city streets. The car casually handled a number of tricky scenarios that I remember losing sleep over just a few years ago. It negotiated incoming cars in tight lanes. It gracefully went around construction and temporary in-lane stationary cars. It correctly timed tricky left turns with incoming traffic from both sides. Uh, it's a glowing review, glowing review of, uh, of Tesla self-driving from the man who basically invented it and started the whole, sort of the whole process.

• 27:45Jordi Hays?

  We also missed it, but, uh, OpenAI released GPT 5.1 rolling out to all users this week. Uh, ChatGPT is officially in its Fiji phase now. If you're wondering why the upgrade doesn't come with benchmarks. Have fun.

• 27:58John Coogan?

  Podcasts on Spotify. Subscribe to the email at tbpn.com and we'll see you tomorrow. Goodbye.