LIVE FROM NYSE FOR $FIG | Dylan Field, Lynn Martin, Kris Rasmussen, Andrew Reed, Danny Rimer, Mamoon Hamid

(38:35) - Andrew Reed, a partner at Sequoia Capital, reflects on Figma's journey from its early days to its successful IPO. He highlights the company's meticulous attention to detail, evident in their product development and the recent New York Stock Exchange debut. Reed also discusses the evolving role of creative technologists and the impact of AI on organizational design, emphasizing the importance of adaptability and innovation in the tech industry. (53:25) - Kris Rasmussen, CTO at Figma, discusses his journey from contractor to CTO, highlighting the company's collaborative culture and the technical challenges of building a real-time, browser-based design tool. He emphasizes the importance of integrating AI to enhance designer efficiency and the necessity of fostering a culture where roles are flexible, allowing team members to tackle challenges beyond their defined positions. (01:04:40) - Danny Rimer, a partner at Index Ventures, has been instrumental in investments in companies like Figma, Dropbox, and Etsy. He discusses Index's early investment in Figma, highlighting their contrarian approach to the company's extended development timeline and the importance of talent in driving success. Rimer also emphasizes the significance of human intervention in design and the firm's commitment to maintaining a focused, small-scale investment strategy. (01:15:23) - Mamoon Hamid, a partner at Kleiner Perkins, discusses his 2017 investment in Figma, highlighting the company's strong user engagement and the strategic selection of board members to support its growth. He also emphasizes Figma's timely integration of AI features, enhancing its design platform's capabilities. (01:25:03) - Dylan Field, co-founder and CEO of Figma, a web-based vector graphics editing software company, discusses the company's recent product updates, including the introduction of offset vectors and enhancements to Dev Mode MCP, which facilitates translating designs into code. He emphasizes the importance of design as a critical differentiator in the software industry, highlighting its evolution from mere aesthetics to a fundamental component of business success. Field also reflects on organizational design in the age of AI, advocating for a blend of research and product applications to drive innovation and adaptability. (01:45:35) - Lynn Martin, the 68th president of the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) and the second woman to lead the exchange, discusses the recent surge in IPO activity, highlighting successful listings such as Figma, Circle, and Hinge Health. She emphasizes the NYSE's unique market model, which includes human oversight to stabilize stocks during their debut, and underscores the importance of technology in maintaining efficient and transparent markets. Martin also reflects on her journey from a technologist at IBM to leading the NYSE, attributing her success to embracing challenges and continuous learning. TBPN.com is made possible by: Ramp - https://ramp.com Figma - https://figma.com Vanta - https://vanta.com Linear - https://linear.app Eight Sleep - https://eightsleep.com/tbpn Wander - https://wander.com/tbpn Public - https://public.com AdQuick - https://adquick.com Bezel - https://getbezel.com Numeral - https://www.numeralhq.com Polymarket - https://polymarket.com Attio - https://attio.com/tbpn Fin - https://fin.ai/tbpn Graphite - https://graphite.dev Restream - https://restream.io Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00John Coogan?

  You're watching TBPN. Today is Thursday, July 31st, 2025. We are live from the New York Stock Exchange. It's the Figma IPO. This is the real fortress of finance. We have created a simulacrum of the fortress of finance in Hollywood, California. But today we're in New York City. We're in Manhattan. We're in the financial district. We're on Wall Street at the New York Stock Exchange and the mood is electric. It is wild.

• 0:26Jordi Hays?

  Just down here a second ago, there was a crowd breaking out cheering.

• 0:32John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 0:33Jordi Hays?

  And it is really a sight to see.

• 0:35John Coogan?

  Yes. So Figma is going public today and earlier today Dylan Field and the Figma team rang the bell to open the market. And then throughout the course of the day, the market is in the process of filling orders and actually taking the stock public and getting liquidity into the stock.

• 0:55Jordi Hays?

  And I will say Figma has really made this place their own.

• 0:59John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 0:59Jordi Hays?

  Every single floor and space in this building has been designed.

• 1:02John Coogan?

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 1:03Jordi Hays?

  Which makes sense. They're taking design public.

• 1:06John Coogan?

  There's little like graphics on the floor. There's every single, every single digital billboard has been done up with a motion graphic treatment.

• 1:14Jordi Hays?

  Even signs pointing you around the building, the merch. They made merch for, I guess this is the process that they do, but they made merch for a bunch of the employees in the building and they're all wearing it. Looks stunning. I want it for myself.

• 1:27John Coogan?

  Everyone's very happy.

• 1:28Jordi Hays?

  And it's just absolutely incredible to be here.

• 1:31John Coogan?

  So we will be interviewing a number of people today in and around the Figma IPO, taking you through the story of what's unfolding here on the ground.

• 1:39Jordi Hays?

  Some guy with the username Zoink. He's got an NFT profile picture.

• 1:43John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:44Jordi Hays?

  I think his name might be, oh, his name's Dylan Field. Dylan Field will be joining the show. Very excited for that. Chris, the CTO of Figma will be joining as well.

• 1:53John Coogan?

  Great.

• 1:53Jordi Hays?

  Of course, Andrew Reed, a friend of the show and former guest will be joining. From Sequoia and then Danny from Index.

• 2:00John Coogan?

  Danny Reimer.

• 2:02Jordi Hays?

  Mamoon from Kleiner Perkins and last but not least Lynn Martin from the New York Stock Exchange itself.

• 2:08John Coogan?

  Fantastic. So we should have about a 90 minute show for you. We are going to say thanks to our sponsors now. Thank you to Ramp, ramp.com. Time is money, say both. Thank you to Figma, one of our sponsors. We're very proud to be partnering with them. Vanta, you can go to vanta.com, Linear, linear.app, Graphite, graphite.dev, Aidsleep.com, of course, Wander. You can find your happy place at wander.com, public.com if you're looking to trade public securities, adquick.com, out of home advertising made easy and measurable, Bezel, go to getbezel.com, Numeral, hq.com, attio.com, fin.ai and of course Restream, which wouldn't, which the stream wouldn't be possible without. So without further ado,

• 2:51John Coogan?

  let's take you through what else is in the news so then we can dive more deeply into the Figma IPO. So we covered this yesterday.

• 2:58Jordi Hays?

  A little bit distracting. Everybody keeps breaking out into applause.

• 3:01John Coogan?

  People are really, really happy. It's, it's, we'll get into some of the timeline and what's going on.

• 3:06Jordi Hays?

  For me on a personal level, I mean, I'll start this off by saying, nothing on today's show is financial advice.

• 3:12John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 3:13Jordi Hays?

  We're not qualified to give financial advice. We're qualified, but I do feel qualified to talk about the product.

• 3:18John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:19Jordi Hays?

  I was lucky, I've basically been lucky to spend my entire career using.

• 3:23John Coogan?

  Here we go.

• 3:23Jordi Hays?

  And I can't even hear myself because people.

• 3:26John Coogan?

  You gotta yell it in the mic. They're really, they're, yup. So, yeah.

• 3:32Jordi Hays?

  I'm assuming that means it's trading.

• 3:35John Coogan?

  I think it's opening. Fantastic. So yeah, you were going to talk about your, your journey using Figma. It's a real overnight success. So the stock has officially opened. Here we go. Everyone's excited. You can hear it.

• 3:47Jordi Hays?

  And people on X are celebrating. They maybe got access to one share.

• 3:52John Coogan?

  Yes, yes, they're having trouble with the listings. But the excitement is palpable across both the online and offline world. We're seeing it here.

• 4:02Jordi Hays?

  And there's so many people that wanted to invest in this business forever, rounds and rounds ago.

• 4:06John Coogan?

  Totally.

• 4:06Jordi Hays?

  In the private markets and it's.

• 4:09John Coogan?

  Even public companies wanted to invest in Figma at one point.

• 4:12Jordi Hays?

  Yes, yes, do a little bit more than a best.

• 4:14John Coogan?

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 4:15Jordi Hays?

  But anyways.

• 4:16John Coogan?

  But now it's public.

• 4:17Jordi Hays?

  I was gonna say, I mean, the context here, you know, is very surreal for me. I've been lucky. I don't really know a time before Figma.

• 4:25John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:25Jordi Hays?

  Sketch was like kind of on the way out. I used it, you know, here and there early in my career. But I've been in Figma every single day. As somebody that never identified as a designer.

• 4:36John Coogan?

  Sure, sure.

• 4:38Jordi Hays?

  More of an ideas guy, more of a product guy.

• 4:40John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 4:41Jordi Hays?

  And it's just been with me throughout my entire career and it, someone was saying on the timeline, I think it was Norgard, he was saying, you can tell when a product's made with love. And despite Figma, you know, growing and launching so many different products over the years, you can just tell that the people that design and build Figma care so much about the people that use the products.

• 5:02John Coogan?

  Totally, yeah. A true overnight success, four years working.

• 5:07Jordi Hays?

  Four years grinding to get to launch.

• 5:08John Coogan?

  Fat MVP as they call it. And then another decade or so, building the public, building the product and the customer base and launching a lot of products.

• 5:17Jordi Hays?

  That's right.

• 5:18John Coogan?

  What a fantastic journey. I remember like learning about Dylan Field as this like, you know, teal fellow wonderkin and, and seeing that the product was growing and that they were always getting rounds done, but they were never like the totally frothy company. It was just like compounding, compounding, compounding.

• 5:34Jordi Hays?

  Looking, I pulled it up earlier. So Index did the seed round and somebody, Terrence Rohan, I guess was in there as well.

• 5:41John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:42Jordi Hays?

  I'm sure he's pretty happy today.

• 5:44John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 5:44Jordi Hays?

  And then Greylock did the Series A, but the seed round was 3.8 million, somewhat of a modest seed.

• 5:49John Coogan?

  Wow, yeah.

• 5:50Jordi Hays?

  At least in today's dollars.

• 5:51John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:51Jordi Hays?

  The Series A was by Greylock for 14 million in total.

• 5:55John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:56Jordi Hays?

  KP did the B, a $25 million round. Andrew Reed and Sequoia came in and did 40. And then the Series C was 50. And then the other thing is, I believe it was GC and Iconic.

• 6:09John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 6:09Jordi Hays?

  That did the round in 2022.

• 6:13John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 6:15Jordi Hays?

  I'm gonna look it up.

• 6:16John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 6:18Jordi Hays?

  But anyways, the vibes here on Wall Street are good. It's absolutely electric.

• 6:21John Coogan?

  They are.

• 6:21Jordi Hays?

  If you look at the headlines from today.

• 6:23John Coogan?

  Yeah, it's not just Figma. The timing is remarkable because, I mean, yesterday we got news that the US GDP grew at 3%, which beat estimates. And so, "The Economy Has Returned to Growth" is on the front of the Wall Street Journal, of course. We covered this a little bit yesterday, but, obviously, a good environment. People were talking about, like, will the IPO window open? And it kind of opened months ago, but people were still not declaring it fully open, because it felt like, oh, this is one special company that's sneaking out. This is just one... Maybe this is just one-off.

• 6:53Jordi Hays?

  Or CoreWeave, that makes sense. Circle, that makes sense, right?

• 6:55John Coogan?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 6:56Jordi Hays?

  Stablecoins, data centers.

• 6:57John Coogan?

  Yep, and now it's like, okay, well, all of the companies that make sense are now going public, and it's really exciting.

• 7:02Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, and there was some commentary earlier on the timeline, people talking about more companies need to be taking advantage of this moment, right?

• 7:09John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 7:09Jordi Hays?

  There's a lot of companies that probably, you know, the window's wide open, right?

• 7:13John Coogan?

  It is, it is. If it makes sense. But it doesn't make sense for every company to go public for a variety of reasons.

• 7:18Jordi Hays?

  And the bar is just so high now.

• 7:19John Coogan?

  It is.

• 7:19Jordi Hays?

  Part of what makes the Figma IPO special, just looking at the rule of 40, and just looking at their business broadly, it's, you know, coming out and, you know, day one being one of the most impressive companies in SaaS.

• 7:32John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah. And then the other news is that the Fed has kept rates steady over rare dissents. Two of the members of the Fed said, "No, we should lower rates," but they were overruled, and the Fed kept rates high. And this is interesting, because you'd think if they cut rates, we'd see the market ripping anymore, even more. The market's already ripping, which is kind of like, it feels like a little bit of like a safety deposit box, like a rainy day fund, that if something doesn't go well in the markets, there's still that lever to pull. And so, it feels reassuring that the economy's growing well. We're also seeing big tech earnings perform very well. And then we also have high rates, so there's a number of lever, like, the health of the consumer is strong,

• 8:14John Coogan?

  unemployment's doing well. There's just good news all across the economy, which I feel like we've been dancing around from one bull case, one minor story, one sliver of hope for a while, now we're really firing on all cylinders.

• 8:26Jordi Hays?

  Big tech, big tech, big deck. Big tech having just blowout earnings yesterday.

• 8:31John Coogan?

  Is that what they call Figma? Big deck?

• 8:32Jordi Hays?

  Big tech. I've made so many decks in Figma, you wouldn't believe. But yeah, big tech just blowing out earnings, Microsoft,

• 8:41John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 8:41Jordi Hays?

  Meta, et cetera. Certainly doesn't hurt.

• 8:44John Coogan?

  Yeah, I saw the I saw the headline number. We talked about Google having something like $100 billion in in cloud backlog. So if they could fill it today, they could just make $100 billion of. I mean, these might be longer dated contracts. People might not want them.

• 8:58Jordi Hays?

  This is kind of business. This is not financial advice, but business advice. Build up $100 billion customer backlog.

• 9:04John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 9:05Jordi Hays?

  Demand backlog. Just do that.

• 9:06John Coogan?

  Yeah, especially.

• 9:07Jordi Hays?

  Focus on that. Everything else will kind of solve itself.

• 9:10John Coogan?

  The share price will take care of itself at that point. So Google's been doing very well. Apparently Azure and Microsoft Cloud has an even larger backlog, something around 300 billion I was seeing. I'm not sure. But the Wall Street Journal is breaking down Microsoft's cloud business, which is driving a lot of the profits. That makes sense in the age of AI and every.

• 9:29Jordi Hays?

  And the relationship with OpenAI.

• 9:30John Coogan?

  Exactly. And so the Wall Street Journal kicks off by saying, demand for Microsoft's artificial intelligence services continues to pay off for the company. Its cloud computing unit saw another high growth quarter while the tech giant spends heavily on building out its AI data centers. Now, there has been some timeline and turmoil over whether or not the depreciation is the depreciation calculations are too aggressive for some of the hyperscalers. Somebody was talking about Meta specifically, but I'm I when I was reading into it, a lot of people were saying like, no, the depreciation schedule is widely disclosed. It's actually very well understood. They're not doing anything that crazy. And yes, it feels like it feels crazy to go out and buy a ton of the most advanced Nvidia GPUs that might be

• 10:14John Coogan?

  quote unquote obsolete, like next year, when there's a new model and new hardware out there that you want to be that we want to be taking advantage of. But if you think about those cloud workloads staying around and growing and doing the thing that is that they are capable at for a very long time.

• 10:28Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, we've covered a lot on the show, the sort of like capability overhang, even if the models don't get smarter, which they are. There's still so much to build and so much value to unlock with the agentic workflows.

• 10:39John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 10:40Jordi Hays?

  Who doesn't love?

• 10:40John Coogan?

  I mean, there's so many like PDFs to pipeline into databases and just.

• 10:44Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, we're still getting really good. We're getting really good at PDFs.

• 10:47John Coogan?

  Knowledge retrieval, just just basic knowledge retrieval is just a massive market for for for business overall. So the clouds groups, the cloud groups strong performance powered Microsoft during the last quarter of the fiscal year. The company on Wednesday also outlined that its first quarter would be better than analysts projected. Wall Street cheered and the result cheered the results, sending shares of Microsoft up nine percent in aftermarket trading. The support carries over, if the support carries over to trading Thursday, which is today, the company could be worth around four trillion dollars. That's that number that Nvidia broke, but also of course their capex is growing significantly. And they are getting very, very close to spending over twenty five billion dollars in a current, in a single quarter on capex.

• 11:32John Coogan?

  But when you have that type of cloud backlog, it makes a lot of sense to build the data centers to service that backlog.

• 11:37Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, Satya has also been fairly pragmatic. If you think about, you know, some of, I mean, he's conducted multiple layoffs this year. He's clearly feeling the pull of AI, but not getting over his skis. Wants to wants, you know, seems to be managing through this kind of euphoric

• 11:58Jordi Hays?

  revenue ramp.

• 11:59John Coogan?

  Yeah, I saw, I saw a funny post that was like something to the effect of like, well, we now know that Satya is good for his eighty billion.

• 12:06Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 12:06John Coogan?

  Because he blew out earnings and he's been doing fantastically. So just since April, where after Liberation Day and all of the big tech stocks kind of selling off in the first quarter of the year. Microsoft's been an absolute tear, up twenty percent over the baseline on the year, where the S and P five hundred has been around eight percent up. And so outperforming the S and P five hundred broadly, big tech continues undefeated.

• 12:29Jordi Hays?

  The Windows. Microsoft is sitting at three point nine eight trillion. It's up four percent today, but they're just touching fourteen.

• 12:37John Coogan?

  They're trying to do.

• 12:37Jordi Hays?

  So close, so close.

• 12:39John Coogan?

  Well, good luck to them and everyone involved.

• 12:41Jordi Hays?

  The funny thing to think about is imagine you joined Meta. You know, maybe a couple of weeks ago and the stock with with this like, you know, massive nine-figure comp structure.

• 12:54John Coogan?

  Are we wasting money?

• 12:56Jordi Hays?

  You've been averaging, basically making, you know, an extra million dollars a day in stock-based comp.

• 13:02John Coogan?

  Oh, I didn't even think about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 13:05Jordi Hays?

  People were running the math on how many AI researchers, you know, you, you know, that the added, you know, you could, you could, Zach could go and do this, this round of aggressive hiring.

• 13:16John Coogan?

  Like every, every single day.

• 13:17Jordi Hays?

  Every single day for, for a while.

• 13:18John Coogan?

  It's wild. So let's continue with Microsoft earnings. The Windows maker is among the many tech companies trying to cash in on the expected AI windfall. The cloud offerings, its cloud offerings put it in a stronger position to capitalize than other firms because of course they are very neutral in terms of what they are building. Satya has been very model agnostic. He has great access to OpenAI, which is a leading API, but then he's also happy to sell you Llama or Grok or anything else. And so he's, he's, he's kind of acting as a de facto model router in many ways. The model router companies are obviously doing something different and helpful in, in other contexts, especially in terms of bidding against Microsoft.

• 13:57Jordi Hays?

  He's excited to be a platform.

• 13:58John Coogan?

  But, but he is embracing the platform, of course, of course.

• 14:00Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, I'm interested to see if the markets, when, when the OpenAI-Microsoft negotiation around their whole licensing deal, they're cheering again. Not exactly sure why, but I love the sound of it. And anyways, it'll be interesting to see if the market reacts positively to that at all. I know Satya cares a lot about the partnership and I'm sure both sides are negotiating their hearts out.

• 14:27John Coogan?

  So Satya Nadella said, "We are going through a generational tech shift with AI." Absolutely true. Microsoft reported revenue of 76.4 billion for its fourth fiscal quarter. The figure topped Wall Street's expectations. Its closely watched Azure cloud business grew 39%, beating expectations. This is already a massive business in a highly competitive market. They compete directly with GCP and AWS. And so they're doing fantastically. All the cloud providers seem to be doing very well. Operating income increased 22% to 34%. 4.3 billion, higher than consensus projections to the beat on top line and bottom line. The company said net income was 27.2 billion or $3.65 a diluted share. That figure also topped analyst projections. They're just blowing it out across the board.

• 15:12John Coogan?

  This AI adoption is really helping the whole portfolio. It certainly gives us great confidence in our ability to continue to lead in the cloud and AI wave that is here. And so in other news, uh, uh, the, uh, Meta also beat earnings and went up, what 10%? Something like that. Uh, you mentioned this soaring Meta ad revenue fuels push into artificial intelligence. 22% revenue growth in its second quarter. We've talked to a lot of people about this, like they're just like, when you're in one of these companies that has the ability to continue to compound seemingly endlessly. It's just one of the best, uh,

• 15:52Jordi Hays?

  Online ads are a big market.

• 15:53John Coogan?

  Yeah. One of the best like financial phenomenon to ever exist.

• 15:57Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 15:58John Coogan?

  And so, uh, uh, showing that core ad revenue, uh, business remains strong at a time when the company is investing billions of dollars into artificial intelligence. For the first time this year, the company is spending its top capital is, uh, held its top capital spending projection steady. A move that is sure to ease investor concerns after, uh, Mark Zuckerberg's AI spending spree. Shares rose more than 11% in after hours trading. And it's interesting to read into the capex numbers because we were, we were talking about that they might be limited on power. So it might not be that Mark Zuckerberg and the Meta team want to necessarily hold that capex. But the market and, and the, and the, and the public market certainly is looking at that as, oh, well, um, you know, ad revenue grew a ton.

• 16:41John Coogan?

  And you didn't even need to spend more on capex. Maybe that's coming down the, down the pipe in coming quarters, but not this quarter. And so everything across the board looks, looks much better for the company.

• 16:51John Coogan?

  Shares rose more than 11% in after-hours trading. The results show the extent to which Meta's advertising business will continue to pay for the company's outsized AI ambitions, as well as how the AI tools are contributing to its strength. Sales came in at $47.5 billion, ahead of analyst expectations, and net income was $18.3 billion, also ahead of market expectations. Technology giant expects to post between 17% and 24% revenue growth year-over-year for the current quarter. The investments it's making in AI are already paying off in its ads business, said a researcher. Meta is the third biggest technology company to report this earnings cycle, and shareholders are keeping a close watch on the extent to which revenue is increasing as a result

• 17:35John Coogan?

  of the AI boom relative to spending levels.

• 17:37Jordi Hays?

  And Geiger Capital is reporting on X. Meta is now up 760% from its 2022 low.

• 17:45John Coogan?

  Wow.

• 17:46Jordi Hays?

  After the failure of the Metaverse. Never doubt Zuck. Obviously, there was a bunch of other factors going on there. Broader correction, rise in interest rates.

• 17:54John Coogan?

  Yeah, the Metaverse bet certainly didn't translate to bottom line as soon as the AI boom did.

• 17:59Jordi Hays?

  I do remember the iconic image of Zuck's face in the Metaverse.

• 18:03John Coogan?

  Yeah, the wee graphics.

• 18:05Jordi Hays?

  Okay, we're a little bit away from the Metaverse.

• 18:07John Coogan?

  Yeah, and the Oculus or the Meta Quest would sell well at Christmas time, but it wouldn't, like, the stickiness just wasn't there to drive real adoption. And then, of course, you know, the whole goal was never just to be in the hardware business and sell $300 headsets. The goal was to be a platform and then take an ad store-like cut of all software that's sold through those headsets. You need, you can't just get the install base up. You actually have to get the DAU base up. And that hasn't happened yet, but it may be well in the future.

• 18:35Jordi Hays?

  Meta ended 2024 with $44 billion in cash, in cash equivalents. They're now down to $12 billion. So he's been on a spending spree.

• 18:45John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 18:46Jordi Hays?

  Which makes sense. We've been tracking it. I wanted to cover an article here that Sarah Guo just posted. She says, "Design goes public. It took Dylan Field and Evan Wallace," and I think she's here in the building somewhere.

• 18:59John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 19:00Jordi Hays?

  We'll try to get her on. She says, "It took Dylan Field and Evan Wallace more than four years to go from founding Figma to public launch. They built Figma playing for the end game, not the headlines. Dylan didn't chase growth at all costs or settle what they could ship in 10 weeks. He didn't try to crush competitors. Instead, he spent a decade obsessing over the product he imagined should exist and the best company he could, making design and software product delivery more powerful and collaborative. He consistently acted with integrity and thoughtfulness. Turns out, not just good turn turns out that's not just good philosophy, it's a strategy for a special business. In 2014, when John Lilly led Greylock's Series A investment,

• 19:41Jordi Hays?

  Dylan and his team had seven people in a nondescript office on Alma Street in Palo Alto and barely an alpha product, but they described a future with remarkable foresight. A high-performance, collaborative, multiplayer design tool built natively for the web, harnessing all its power, changing product development forever. And this product was just so incredibly viral. Obviously, people don't design in a silo. They would make something, share it with people instantly. You could just open it in the browser. You could see everyone else's cursor. And we take that kind of software for granted now, but it's because so many different companies realized how powerful it was.

• 20:16John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 20:17Jordi Hays?

  And moved to, and you know, were inspired by Figma.

• 20:20John Coogan?

  I mean, it's the difference between Instagram and Hipstamatic. Like, they both had photo filtering and people saw them as like tools for photo filtering, but Instagram bootstrapped a network and was worth billions. And now, probably, if you spun it out, it's like hundreds of billions.

• 20:33Jordi Hays?

  So Sarah says, "Figma had its fair share of challenges. Market size was an early question, right? People were just looking at the market and being like, how many designers are there really out there? How many are willing to pay for this?"

• 20:45John Coogan?

  Totally, totally.

• 20:46Jordi Hays?

  And they were burning, Sarah says they were burning $800,000 a month pre-launch. So, no, no sign, no, no real sign of validation other than their own conviction.

• 20:58John Coogan?

  So bold.

• 20:59Jordi Hays?

  She says, "Like with any startup, getting early pilot customers required. Cajoling of our friends, competitors who built less product for a while seemed ahead. Dylan persisted, driven more by conviction than fear. He assembled a team of remarkable people. Chris Rasmussen, who's going to be on later, Joe Kuomato, Claire Butler, Praveer, Malwani, Kyle Parish, Amanda, Clea, Yuki Yamashita, and more. Each of these Figmates, which is a good name.

• 21:28John Coogan?

  Figmates, okay.

• 21:29Jordi Hays?

  Figmates, contributed extraordinary talent.

• 21:31John Coogan?

  I was thinking Fig Leafs.

• 21:32Jordi Hays?

  Fig Leafs.

• 21:33John Coogan?

  But Figmates makes more sense.

• 21:35Jordi Hays?

  Dylan himself evolved dramatically along the way from a clearly talented, thoughtful, dropout founder to a formidable CEO capable of scaling a legendary company. And this is a special, special one for me to, again, to just experience the product first as a user and then somebody that, you know, followed, followed tech closely. And being able to watch, watch, watch his evolution as a CEO is just amazing.

• 22:00John Coogan?

  Yeah, do you think you learned who Dylan Field was? Or did you use the product first?

• 22:05Jordi Hays?

  I think he always had insane aura. Do you think I used the product? I must have used the product first.

• 22:11John Coogan?

  I think I probably used the product first. Or it was brought into my, my organization first.

• 22:15Jordi Hays?

  Because again, it's not like he was coming out the gate raising 50 million or whatever. These were relatively normal rounds. They were great by.

• 22:22John Coogan?

  I mean, completely different go-to-market motion back then, too.

• 22:25Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 22:25John Coogan?

  It was not viral launch video podcast circuit.

• 22:28Jordi Hays?

  Growth.

• 22:28John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 22:28Jordi Hays?

  This was entirely the, showing the power of that. At just a few million in revenue, the board received a letter about aligning our path to IPO. Very few people, very few other people play secret Hitler as ruthlessly against their own spouse or casually suggest starting a game of diplomacy at 11:00 PM. These aren't just games to Dylan. They were exercises in long-term strategy, the same discipline that meant Figma. I don't know if, I don't know if.

• 22:57John Coogan?

  We're, we're getting news that the first trade might happen in a few minutes. And so I think people are getting ready for the first trade to happen. And so they're chanting, "Figma, Figma, Figma, Figma."

• 23:09Jordi Hays?

  Figmates, Figmates.

• 23:10John Coogan?

  I love it. This is wild.

• 23:12Jordi Hays?

  Absolutely wild.

• 23:13John Coogan?

  Continue with the piece when you're ready.

• 23:16Jordi Hays?

  Sarah says at Figma's IPO roadshow last week, "Two developer advocates, great job Jake and Tom, spent the first 35 minutes of the presentation doing a comprehensive live demo.

• 23:27John Coogan?

  Wow.

• 23:27Jordi Hays?

  It's something I'm convinced had never been done before to a room full of bankers, mutual fund managers, and hedge fund investors. Afterwards, Dylan turned to me with that familiar, slightly nutty gleam in his eye. I want them to understand the product they're investing in. They're all going to be designers eventually."

• 23:44John Coogan?

  Wow.

• 23:45Jordi Hays?

  I do believe that. In some ways, I've become a better designer over the years, even though I'm not classically trained, just because the Figma products have gotten better. Like, as Figma gets better, I get better, and that's such a powerful feedback loop. "Today, millions rely on Figma, and its scope and power continues expanding. The IPO is proof that special founders can reshape even entrenched categories, and that they will find the surrounding hills to climb, and focus on product is rarely wrong. It underscores that technology matters." We covered this yesterday at Config, but, you know, that focus on WebGL early, like, that was the why now. And it can be rare to have a true technological why now. Oftentimes, founders try to...

• 24:32John Coogan?

  I think that's the first trade.

• 24:34Jordi Hays?

  First trade.

• 24:37John Coogan?

  Dylan just rang the bell for the first trade.

• 24:40Jordi Hays?

  First trade is at 93. All right, climbing to 93.

• 24:44John Coogan?

  Climbing, wow. That is amazing.

• 24:47Jordi Hays?

  Dylan looks absolutely fantastic. And is that a purple suit?

• 24:50John Coogan?

  That's remarkable.

• 24:55John Coogan?

  We should just turn this around. We'll show the screen right there.

• 25:00Jordi Hays?

  Good idea.

• 25:00John Coogan?

  There we go. You can see the screen.

• 25:05Jordi Hays?

  Put it down and just point it up, maybe?

• 25:07John Coogan?

  There we go.

• 25:12John Coogan?

  There we go.

• 25:14Jordi Hays?

  Oh.

• 25:15John Coogan?

  I don't know if they can see that.

• 25:15Jordi Hays?

  So emotional, so emotional.

• 25:17John Coogan?

  It's remarkable.

• 25:18Jordi Hays?

  Going through the, the almost acquisition blocked. And to make it, to make it back here, uh, well beyond, uh, and, and the, the employees too. I mean, the resilience, right?

• 25:31John Coogan?

  Totally, totally.

• 25:31Jordi Hays?

  We saw this last week, uh, not, or the week before.

• 25:34John Coogan?

  Couple of weeks ago.

• 25:35Jordi Hays?

  You know, the, the Windsurf team thinking that they're getting acquired by OpenAI.

• 25:38John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, it's a roller coaster.

• 25:39Jordi Hays?

  It doesn't go through, uh, and, and that was a different scenario, but, uh, they had, they really had to,

• 25:44John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 25:45Jordi Hays?

  Uh, build, uh, you know, find, find a new gear.

• 25:48John Coogan?

  Yeah, I mean, we, we all know that there was a breakup fee, but.

• 25:52Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, it didn't hurt.

• 25:52John Coogan?

  But the value, like, like the, the value of focus is just so underrated. And you think about that for that, like, how long were they going through that process? Like a year? And, uh, the amount of distraction, both from just like a legal compliance, financial thing, but also just like, well, you think you're going to partner up with somebody, are you going to build a competitor? Are you going to be like, okay, let's just not put that, let's push that out on the roadmap because we, we, we're partnering with them.

• 26:17Jordi Hays?

  They'll bring that to the. Scott Belsky was, I imagine, I do it, running, effectively running, running the show over there. And, uh, you know, disappointing for him as well, but he obviously, uh, was, uh, very congratulatory.

• 26:32John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 26:33Jordi Hays?

  Sarah says, I'll close it out.

• 26:36John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 26:36Jordi Hays?

  She says, we're all going to be designers eventually. Congratulations, Figma. And, uh, yeah, design's going public today.

• 26:43John Coogan?

  Design's going public.

• 26:43Jordi Hays?

  I'm going to pull up Scott's post.

• 26:45John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, read me Scott's post. What a crazy day. Citadel Securities in the back looking great.

• 26:52Jordi Hays?

  Scott says, uh, thrilled for my friend Dylan and the whole Figma team today upon such a milestone. There are few products that have had such an impact on the lives of designers, our everyday experiences of products and the value of design. He says, I had, um, a unique opportunity to get to know the entire Figma management team and business very deeply a few years ago. Of course, Scott was, uh, at Adobe at the time.

• 27:16John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 27:17Jordi Hays?

  Uh, you know, one of the, uh, key players in the deal. Uh, and he says, what I learned inspired me in many ways and makes me confident that this team is just getting started. This is a team with deep empathy for, empathy for their customer. They of course, uh, in my words, are the customer. That's part of what Figma uses Figma to make Figma.

• 27:34John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:34Jordi Hays?

  This perfect, uh, perfect, uh, partnership.

• 27:38John Coogan?

  Yeah, the S1 showed that.

• 27:39Jordi Hays?

  The S1 showed that.

• 27:40John Coogan?

  Greatest design S1 of all time.

• 27:43Jordi Hays?

  But yeah, the story here is the thoughtfulness, right? Down to the signage in the building today. Every single step has been considered. And they have to, right? If they want to help other people have great design. They need to lead by example. I have a post here from John Lilly. Who was, I believe John was at Greylock. Let me confirm that.

• 28:11John Coogan?

  Yeah. I saw Greylock on the cap table. Pretty big shareholder, probably over 10%.

• 28:16Jordi Hays?

  Greylock led the A.

• 28:17John Coogan?

  Okay. And Wes had held on through a bunch of Pro Rata's.

• 28:21Jordi Hays?

  Yes.

• 28:22John Coogan?

  Did quite well.

• 28:23Jordi Hays?

  Yep. John says, "Today's IPO is a landmark moment for Figma. Not just a financial milestone, but a powerful validation of Dylan and Evan's founding vision back in 2012 to eliminate the gap between imagination and reality. Figma's relentless focus on product, community, and craft has reshaped how the world designs. What began as a bold technical challenge, building a web-based design tool that felt native, evolved into a platform that helped millions of creators design and build together." In a 2003 interview about the iPod, Steve Jobs famously said, "Design is not just what it looks like and feels like, design is how it works." Figma built around this idea, building tools so that designers of all kinds come together not just to make things beautiful, but to make them work better.

• 29:08Jordi Hays?

  And now we're standing at the threshold of a new era, one defined by the rise of artificial intelligence. It's an especially important moment to ask, what does the future of design look like? I think that's on everybody's mind. I think a lot of people have good ideas for what it can look like.

• 29:25Jordi Hays?

  John says, "Design has always existed in the space between tools and human intention. And as Mitch Kapoor wrote in his 1990 software design manifesto, 'What is design? It's where you stand with a foot in two worlds, the world of technology and the world of people and human purposes, and you try to bring the two together.'" That's powerful. 35 years later, that's still the clearest expression I know of what great design strives to do, and it's what Figma enables a connection between imagination and reality, and between the systems we build and the people we build them for, between our machines and ourselves.

• 30:01Jordi Hays?

  Not my words, not John's, but it's so funny to think about how when you are interacting with anything online, there's like probably like an 80% chance that it was built with Figma at some point or another. You can't open an app on your phone and not have a designer under the hood that probably spends, you know, hours and hours a day in Figma. I have so many great, I have so many great memories.

• 30:26John Coogan?

  And the stock is over $100 now. This is remarkable. And I saw something that it seemed like there was potentially some sort of circuit breaker going on where there was like a limit up where it seemed like they stopped trading for a little bit and then resumed. But the stock is jumping all over the place. I'm seeing like 107 now. Really, really on a rocket ship today.

• 30:49Jordi Hays?

  A couple, couple of fond memories for me. One is with Brandon Jacoby, who's at X. He's a free agent now. We'll see how long that sticks.

• 30:58John Coogan?

  Greatest Figma users to ever do it.

• 30:59Jordi Hays?

  And I have so, there were so many nights when we were building Party Round that it was like deep COVID, so we were, we were often remote. And so many nights we would spend just in Figma and had Zoom in the background, Figma just like, just grinding it out. And I cherish those memories. The other thing Sumit over, formerly at Andreessen, brought up today when I posted earlier, he said that when I was pitching A16Z originally, almost the entire pitch, I didn't have a deck when I first met them. So the entire pitch was walking around all of our product designs in Figma, showing them the product, showing them where we wanted to take it. And so it's really just been such a, such a core, core

• 31:42Jordi Hays?

  part. I'll close it out with John. He says, "On a personal level too, this is a significant moment for me. I was lucky in my career to be mentored by some of the best thinkers and designers in the world. Terry Winograd and David Kelly at Stanford and later Mitch Kapoor and many others. And from the very first time I set foot in Figma's offices, I felt like I'd come home. Dylan and Evan had built a temple of design." With typography books scattered around.

• 32:08John Coogan?

  Let's go.

• 32:09Jordi Hays?

  We love temples. Let's give it up for temples. But the whole company culture was infused with a belief in and a reverence for designers and their work. And that's still the core value of Figma today.

• 32:19John Coogan?

  Love it.

• 32:21Jordi Hays?

  We made somebody mad sometime when we joked on the show. We joked on the show that like Figma hadn't like released some feature fast enough.

• 32:31John Coogan?

  They released the ability to do to create more responsive designs automatically. And we were like, people were protesting the street for this one.

• 32:40Jordi Hays?

  And somebody came out and very angrily messaged us saying, no one was protesting.

• 32:45John Coogan?

  No one was protesting. This is fake news. And we were like, okay, we were joking, but people do love Figma. It's a thing.

• 32:49Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, people get emotional about it. That was the thing. We were at config and the number of people that there was somebody from every country there.

• 32:56John Coogan?

  It was standing room only. It was crazy. The community is wild. Yeah.

• 33:01Jordi Hays?

  John says, one of the other things that Mitch said to me about entrepreneurship is that you've got to build a house you want to live in. In other words, build organizations that can help create the world you want. By elevating and empowering designers, Figma has done that in a profound and lasting way. Here's to the team at Figma and to continue to build the world of designing together. It's so true. I mean, in a world without Figma, every digital product that you use is less beautiful. Every website that you use is less beautiful.

• 33:30John Coogan?

  Do you think in the original Microsoft formulation of what a platform is, Figma fits that definition? So the original, I think it was Bill Gates's conception of it was a platform is a business or product that where the value that is created on top of the platform is greater than the value that is captured by the platform. And so the classic example is, yeah, is Microsoft Windows. They're like the Windows app ecosystem is larger than the amount of money captured by just Windows licenses. And when you think about it, it's a little bit different because although there is a third-party ecosystem, there are also like design agencies that probably wouldn't exist.

• 34:12Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, I mean, the part of why Figma has such a great brand is they can't possibly. They can't possibly capture, there's so much value creation like happening on the platform.

• 34:21John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 34:21Jordi Hays?

  And it's as simple as like a company signing up, two founders paying 50 bucks a month.

• 34:25John Coogan?

  Everyone feels like they got their money's worth.

• 34:26Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, and creating something that allows them to go, create a deck that allows them to raise millions of dollars or creating a product with millions of users.

• 34:33John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 34:34Jordi Hays?

  And that flow of like, somebody can be a freelance designer, sign up for Figma, create designs that they can go sell and yeah, I think it definitely fits the definition. It's very much, it's an operating system for people that design and build software.

• 34:49John Coogan?

  We talked a little bit about it yesterday. Ben Thompson gave a breakdown on Strategery, which you should go read and subscribe to, obviously, of this Figma S1 and the IPO prospects. And he was highlighting the potential, the potential benefit of being a public company and having public company stock to do M&A with. And I'm wondering where you sit on the M&A question. There's the world where Figma has a talented team, they can build new products. They also have this network effect, they have amazing go-to-market and sales motion. But if they were to acquire something, what do you think would be the right angle? Is it more something like a foundational technology that can improve all the products?

• 35:30John Coogan?

  Or some sort of new line extension, new SKU to add on to the portfolio of products? I think that's where the debate should be going forward.

• 35:39Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, I'm less excited about what they, I'm personally, I'm more excited about them acquiring better, you know, I mean, the team is obviously beyond stacked. It's one of the most talented groups in certainly design, well, the most talented group in design and one of the most talented teams in the industry broadly. I'm less excited about individual app plays, although there's some exciting Gen AI applications that are growing quickly. Figma has compelling products in those categories, right? You look at Figma Make, Figma Sites, right? And everything they're doing around making it so that anyone within an organization can generate designs that are on-brand.

• 36:21John Coogan?

  I guess the question is, yeah, like.

• 36:23Jordi Hays?

  And again, trading has been halted at $112.

• 36:27John Coogan?

  $112, wow.

• 36:28Jordi Hays?

  On a limit up.

• 36:32John Coogan?

  If someone goes out and builds not just a not just a tool that is complimentary, but also has a network and is starting to bootstrap a network, that feels like the Instagram, Facebook moment and something that would potentially merit an M and A.

• 36:46Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 36:46John Coogan?

  But but just building a tool or different approach to the product or different feature. Always this question about like, you know, is it a feature or is it a company?

• 36:55Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 36:55John Coogan?

  And I think that will be something that people are are debating.

• 36:57Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, they they acquired a buddy of mine, Jordan, Jordan Singer's company.

• 37:01John Coogan?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 37:02Jordi Hays?

  Uh, I think it was probably two plus years ago. Um, and he was in building in, you know, very early to building in generative AI.

• 37:09John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 37:09Jordi Hays?

  I believe they integrated a lot of what he was working on.

• 37:12John Coogan?

  Yeah, I do wonder, uh, on the on the M and A topic, like, what is the formula for success? Because there's a little bit of a meme in Silicon Valley that like, you should never sell your company. It can never work. Then there are like these zombie aqua hires that feel like something that people want to avoid. And so, uh, one of the questions that have been kicking around my head is like, what is the shape of the company or founding team or employee base that is suitable for an acquisition?

• 37:37Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 37:37John Coogan?

  That could actually integrate well and be something where everyone is happy a decade later? Like, oh yeah, that was a fantastic partnership. That was great. It it probably has to be something around the, uh, the, uh, the acceleration that would happen post-acquisition and then also, uh, just the the actual integration and and.

• 37:57Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, there was a while back, you remember this company, it was a six-month own, uh, six-month-old solo-owned vibe.

• 38:03John Coogan?

  I remember this, yeah.

• 38:04Jordi Hays?

  Base 44, sold to Wix for 80 million. Wix was not, uh, to my knowledge, uh, not in the game at all.

• 38:10John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:10Jordi Hays?

  From a generative AI standpoint, so, uh, it looks like we have our first guest.

• 38:16John Coogan?

  Let's bring him in.

• 38:17Jordi Hays?

  Uh, lined up here. Andrew Reed.

• 38:19John Coogan?

  In a beautiful suit, looking great.

• 38:21Jordi Hays?

  Somebody, somebody confused me, uh, for Andrew Reed earlier. They said, hey, you're Andrew, right? I said, I am not, but he is close by. What's going on?

• 38:30John Coogan?

  Andrew, welcome to the stream. You're live. How are you doing?

• 38:33Jordi Hays?

  You are live.

• 38:34Andrew Reed?

  Welcome to the New York Stock Exchange.

• 38:36John Coogan?

  Thank you for having us.

• 38:37Andrew Reed?

  You guys look like you were made to be here.

• 38:38John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 38:39Jordi Hays?

  We're very happy to be here.

• 38:40John Coogan?

  The decision to put on the suits six months ago has paid off flawlessly because we don't have to dress up for something like this?

• 38:44Andrew Reed?

  Is this my microphone?

• 38:45John Coogan?

  That's your microphone.

• 38:46Andrew Reed?

  Wonderful.

• 38:46John Coogan?

  How are you doing? Give us your reactions. How's this day been for you?

• 38:50Andrew Reed?

  Let's see. Well, first off, congrats to your initial public appearance at the New York Stock Exchange.

• 38:55John Coogan?

  Thank you.

• 38:55Andrew Reed?

  It's really exciting. Today has been, it's been a good day. You know, you open Dylan rang the bell at 9:30 and it's 2:11 PM Eastern right now.

• 39:05John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 39:05Andrew Reed?

  So we've been milling around for many hours.

• 39:07John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 39:08Andrew Reed?

  And

• 39:08John Coogan?

  It's a little exhausting.

• 39:09Andrew Reed?

  It opened and yeah, it's amazing seeing the team here.

• 39:11John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 39:12Andrew Reed?

  And just the excitement of everyone chanting Figma and seeing all the traders in their swagged-out Figma jackets.

• 39:17Jordi Hays?

  The jackets are fantastic. I'm gonna go insert market, you know, bidding jackets after this because those are totally iconic. The thing that stood out to me is all the little, like, they really made, they really made NISEY their home. Like, every, like, every single place you look, there's something Figma and it's just so, so incredibly well done.

• 39:38Andrew Reed?

  Yeah, and this one of my, one of the experiences I've had with Figma, you know, dating back to when we first invested seven years ago was, it's a company that-

• 39:47Jordi Hays?

  Overnight success.

• 39:47Andrew Reed?

  Overnight success. The, um, it's a company that's always had extraordinary attention to detail and, you know, it shows up when you do an all-hands at their office. Um, and the way they do it- The board slides, the S1, config the conference and how they apply that attention to detail to the NISEY is incredible because, you know, there's applying the attention to detail and then realizing all the things you can do in terms of the signs on the ground and the party outside, the data set, an unbelievable job.

• 40:14Jordi Hays?

  They have to be doing things that haven't been done before.

• 40:16Andrew Reed?

  Yeah, I mean, I think the takeover outside was like breathtaking and I'm obviously very biased because I see the Figma logo, I get very excited, but, you know, it's like-

• 40:23John Coogan?

  Did you see the roadshow? Did you go to any of the roadshow? I heard there was like a long product demo there, which is kind of uncommon.

• 40:28Andrew Reed?

  Um, yeah, so I think it's, I think this is true for, you know, uh, many CEOs, but especially for Dylan. Like Dylan- Cares a lot about the product.

• 40:37John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 40:38Andrew Reed?

  And it's important that everybody who is considering investing in the company really knows what Figma, not just what Figma stands for and design and creativity and all the things you see.

• 40:46John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 40:47Andrew Reed?

  But really how the product works. And it was not a five-minute flyby, you know, look at the cool, you know, shiny features.

• 40:55John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 40:55Andrew Reed?

  The product demo was, you know, they were in the weeds. It was, yeah, I was, I in fact uncovered parts of the product I didn't know existed.

• 41:05Andrew Reed?

  But it was good. I think it's important, again, like, part of, you know, that's who Dylan is, right? He actually cares so deeply about every single pixel and every single feature. And then that shows through.

• 41:17Jordi Hays?

  How early did you actually meet Dylan? Sarah Guo was posting earlier that pre-launch they were burning $800,000 a month, which just sounds like, that's the most nerve-wracking scenario for any, you know, a lot of founders will go through that at some point. But when did you realize what a special founder he was?

• 41:35Andrew Reed?

  Well, Dylan and Evan, by the way.

• 41:37Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 41:37Andrew Reed?

  I think just, I think it's a nice moment to take a pause and just give a shout out to Evan Wallace.

• 41:42Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 41:42Andrew Reed?

  He's like an absolute legend.

• 41:44Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 41:44Andrew Reed?

  And I think the stories that people here tell about Evan are just, you know, will go on.

• 41:48Jordi Hays?

  Yep.

• 41:49Andrew Reed?

  Chris, who's going to come on next, you know, is Figma's CTO. He'll, I think, have a lot of, he'll tell you actually all the stuff Evan did in the codebase, but allegedly it's insane.

• 42:00Andrew Reed?

  And, you know.

• 42:01Jordi Hays?

  Well, and just going, like, taking another step back. People have, like, people love to use Figma as an example, that it's okay to take a long time to ship your products. And I think most, like, almost always when I hear founders say, well, Figma took four years. I go, well, you're not Evan Wallace.

• 42:20Jordi Hays?

  And you're not, like, fundamentally changing, you know, the way that, like, software works online.

• 42:24Andrew Reed?

  Yeah.

• 42:25Jordi Hays?

  You're just, you're building enterprise workflows. You should probably ship, like, next month.

• 42:30Andrew Reed?

  Yeah, the other thing about the, you know, you can take, take as long as you need, you know.

• 42:36Andrew Reed?

  Figma, there's this, there's something that Rulov talks a lot about for our business, which is the Red Queen dynamic. You have to run faster and faster just to stay in the same place. And I think in a world of accelerating technology change, like, in order to win in your markets, you just have to run the company faster and do more. And obviously, like, AI is allowing companies to do a lot more.

• 42:57John Coogan?

  Isn't the Red Queen race usually an anecdote of something you want to avoid getting into?

• 43:01Andrew Reed?

  Yeah, well, that's just the truth of technology, I think.

• 43:03John Coogan?

  Is it the truth of venture capital? Is it the truth of enterprise software?

• 43:07Andrew Reed?

  Yeah. And if you look at how, you know, when Figma went from four products to eight products at Config, right? Like, the pace, and I think everyone who uses the product feels it, like, the pace is just picking up.

• 43:17Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, we got a little preview of Config, and I messaged Nairi, and I was like, wait, all, you're announcing all of this at Config? Like, all four of these? Like, it was like four major announcements, and that's what, that's what picking up the pace looks like, like, finding that new gear.

• 43:35John Coogan?

  Yeah. How are you thinking about org design changing in the age of AI? This is something I've been talking to a lot of folks about. There's taking, you know, designers and giving them the ability to ship code. They're kind of this flip from going from a 0x engineer, a designer, to a 1x engineer. And that gain can sometimes be better than taking a 10x engineer and making them a little bit better, because you just unlock this new capability. How are you thinking about, companies just broadly, thinking about AI as a, as a product vertical that is its own silo versus something that infuses the whole company? What are you hearing? What are you seeing?

• 44:09Andrew Reed?

  So I've been, I've been thinking about that question a lot. And the way I kind of craft the archetype would be the creative technologist. And I think in the same way that all of us are capable of scribbling something on a piece of paper when we're bored in a meeting, I think similarly, all of us are going to be capable of creating something on the internet.

• 44:27John Coogan?

  It's actually interactive.

• 44:28Andrew Reed?

  Exactly. And I think that has been happening for a while. I think it's picking up steam at an incredible pace. And I think this role of creative technologist, I think, you know, in big companies, you'll still probably have siloed engineering, product design, you know, marketing teams. I think in our small companies, like, the founding, the founding engineers, founding teams, people are wearing a lot of hats, right? And using tools like Figma to do everything from ideation to prompt something, to iterate, get it in the hands of users, and to actually, you know, publish code. I think that the small companies, I bet will leave the like.

• 45:01Jordi Hays?

  Even my buddy Andreessen said that when I was first pitching them, we weren't like actually raising it. I didn't have a deck and so I just was in Figma, screen sharing, showing them the product and showing them all the different ways that we were gonna take it and things like that. And it's just, and again, that's just like evidence of Figma not being for designers.

• 45:20Andrew Reed?

  No.

• 45:21Jordi Hays?

  I never thought, I thought it was a tool for building things.

• 45:23Andrew Reed?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 45:25John Coogan?

  Yeah. One dynamic Ben Thompson's been talking about is that as a public company, sometimes it can be easier to do M&A. Have you ever run into that in your career, just broadly of a company that, where that is an important factor in kind of their long-term strategy? I've always, generally, the meme has been like, stay private as long as possible. But, you know, there's a reason companies go public. There are obviously tons of benefits, but what is the M&A dynamic in public and private markets right now?

• 45:56Andrew Reed?

  Yeah, I think the, you know, there's what you learn when you start out at Goldman Sachs. And it's, you know, it's, you have access to the capital markets. You can use public currency for M&A, you know, blah, blah, blah, to tell your story. To me, the, the reason why I'm so happy with the IPO timing today is coming off of config a few months ago and just like feeling the energy, you guys were there and felt the energy amongst the community, like the incredible community surrounding Figma. And then being able to tell that story and all the stuff we're doing with our new product initiatives with AI and tell it to the broader world.

• 46:30John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 46:32Andrew Reed?

  You know, in the S1, we reported, I think, 13 million monthly active users, two-thirds of which are not designers. And, you know, they got.

• 46:39Jordi Hays?

  Did you, did you know, did you, was that, was that your guess early on? Did you, did you, did you fully see that the TAM for this was not? Like, how many designers are there and just like add it up, multiply it? Did you, I imagine you believe that it could be used across.

• 46:56Andrew Reed?

  It's similar to what I was saying with the, you know, I think the creative technologist archetype who's going to do a lot of things and eventually in 10 years, the way that companies run their product engineering teams will probably look very different. I think similarly, like there were, even predating our investment, there were definitely examples of teams that went all in on the Figma way, collaborative way of building products. And you had, you know, full product engineering design teams at small companies or even at mid-sized companies. I remember Airbnb and Square were in our portfolio and we talked to them before we invested and they were, you know, early at pioneering this, you know, we're getting off of the drop box links being sent around. We're, you know, we're going all in on, on, you know, working in Figma.

• 47:37Andrew Reed?

  And it turns out it was a much better way of shipping products if you wanted to ship really good products quickly. And therefore, the entire world seemingly changed its mind in a few years. I think similarly, some small companies are going to pioneer new ways of doing things. They're going to move really fast. It's going to be obvious that there's like a new archetype emerging. I think many of those people are going to live in Figma. I think the most creative community on the internet today already exists in Figma.

• 48:05Jordi Hays?

  I always, it felt even, I remember using it as a, like a social app. Like, in the sense that like I would get, I would, it'd be late at night, I would open my laptop and I'd be like, oh, Brandon's up. Go over to wherever he was designing, I'd be like, hey, what's up dude? And it was like this, like, it was like, almost like, a lot of people built these in these like virtual offices, but like Figma was our virtual office.

• 48:29Andrew Reed?

  Interesting, yeah.

• 48:30Jordi Hays?

  I'd just be like, hey, what's up? Or I'd just like start, you know, I'd just mess with them and like change a button color.

• 48:35Andrew Reed?

  Yeah, the one thing I'm really excited about with the new products is, you know, they're both raising the ceiling of what it is possible to do for the most creative people in Figma. You know, like with Figma Draw, for instance, right? Like the ability to do like really interesting artistic creative work inside of Figma files. And also massively racing the floor for those of us who are, you know, more Excel inclined in our, you know, creative abilities. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I think it's so rare to find like technology shifts that allow companies to capture both of those things. Usually there's a trade-off. Yeah, it was really exciting.

• 49:12John Coogan?

  I mean, Excel kind of served the same purpose, but just decades ago, right?

• 49:15Andrew Reed?

  Totally. Yeah, like, and similarly to the idea of, you know, Figma slides came out of this intuition, or not even intuition, it's the reality that many people were torquing Figma files into slide decks.

• 49:25John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:26Jordi Hays?

  I had a, I had a file called deck formatting. Yeah. I've shared with probably hundreds of people at this point of like, this is how I build decks. Like, this is how I build fundraising decks. Here's like, you know, 50 examples for each page. And I would just send it out to everyone. They could just copy it and start working off of it.

• 49:45Andrew Reed?

  Okay, I mean, that sounds great.

• 49:46Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. It's great. We don't have to make many decks at TVPN.

• 49:51John Coogan?

  It really does stand out.

• 49:51Jordi Hays?

  No.

• 49:52John Coogan?

  We should make one.

• 49:52Jordi Hays?

  We should start making more decks just for each other.

• 49:54John Coogan?

  Yeah, we should, yeah. It'd be great. Last question, I think we'll let you go. I want to talk about the culture and hiring changes and just how going public changes any of that. How do you describe the culture of like, someone who's a good fit to become a Figma mate?

• 50:10Andrew Reed?

  Ooh, that's a really good question.

• 50:14Andrew Reed?

  You know, when I was reflecting-

• 50:15Jordi Hays?

  As the Series C lead.

• 50:16Andrew Reed?

  Well, yeah. When I was reflecting on what I was going to tweet today, you know, because there's always a fine balance, right? Like, how do I tweet something to say, "Congrats", without doing the, you know, "Can you believe this amazing"?

• 50:27John Coogan?

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 50:28Andrew Reed?

  So I kind of went into a very paranoid headspace of how do I get, you know, not end up in the wrong quadrant?

• 50:33John Coogan?

  We just go too far. Just, you're welcome, everyone.

• 50:35Jordi Hays?

  You said, "Congrats to the incredible Figma team, the most creative, determined, imaginative, and positive group of people. I'm just so happy for all of your success."

• 50:43John Coogan?

  There we go.

• 50:44Jordi Hays?

  And I was, I almost responded, "Our success."

• 50:46Andrew Reed?

  Yeah. So those four adjectives, I think they are, they're creative. I think I tried to pull off an analogy when I was talking to you guys at Config about how everybody, everybody who was at Config would be a good tattoo artist for my, my face painting artist for my daughter. And my brother said that was, that analogy did not land. They're very creative. I think they're extremely determined. I think, like, this is a company that, you know, when the early days of burning however much money, they were burning a month and not having product market fit and grinding your way to product market fit. And all the twists and turns over the last seven, eight years since they really started their ascent.

• 51:21John Coogan?

  But you still have like the hardcore WebGL crew.

• 51:23Andrew Reed?

  Yeah.

• 51:23John Coogan?

  And that's like, all, it's not like quite like foundation model level AI research, but it's like serious engineering.

• 51:29Andrew Reed?

  It's a company that does hard things. They are not afraid of doing really hard things.

• 51:32John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 51:34Andrew Reed?

  I think they're imaginative. I think that's, like- You know, the make believe billboard you see in San Francisco, it's a company that really does think out there. And I think Dylan, obviously Dylan is on the bleeding edge of technology and they're positive. Like they are just good human beings. And, you know, looking at, I would see the reaction to the, um, to the IPO is just, look around, like these are awesome people who are so cool. The valedictorian of my high school works at Figma, her name's Katie Zito, she's a PM here. She's literally like the smartest person I knew in high school and how she builds products at Figma. And anyway, I'm just so happy for them. I really am happy for their success and your success.

• 52:11Jordi Hays?

  We had, we had, I didn't put it out, but, uh, yesterday we did the, we did it meme with Ramp.

• 52:19John Coogan?

  The champagne meme.

• 52:20Jordi Hays?

  Every person involved.

• 52:21John Coogan?

  I sent you that.

• 52:22Andrew Reed?

  But now Ramp's congratulating Figma with the big billboard today.

• 52:26Jordi Hays?

  That was insane. You know, they had that idea Monday. We were on the phone with them. They were like, yeah, we think we might get a banner and like, because our office is right across the street from Figma's New York office. We should just hang it out. And it's like this like 40 by 40.

• 52:39Andrew Reed?

  It's unbelievable.

• 52:39Jordi Hays?

  It's, it's looks like it's a Figma canvas.

• 52:42Andrew Reed?

  I will say the, the Ramp thanking Figma with TVPN and the New York Stock Exchange today is a big day.

• 52:47John Coogan?

  Yeah, it's a big day for us.

• 52:48Jordi Hays?

  It's a big day.

• 52:49John Coogan?

  Yeah, it's awesome.

• 52:49Jordi Hays?

  Well, it's lovely having you.

• 52:50Andrew Reed?

  Yeah, thanks for being here. Enjoyed talking to everyone else and obviously, I hope we see you later.

• 52:54John Coogan?

  That's been great.

• 52:54Jordi Hays?

  Congratulations on your success.

• 52:56John Coogan?

  Congratulations. I'll talk to you soon. Let's bring in our next guest to the studio. We are going to tweak some cameras and give you an update.

• 53:06Jordi Hays?

  Kramer, Jim Kramer says, celebrate the moment.

• 53:07John Coogan?

  Celebrate the moment, says Jim Kramer.

• 53:09Jordi Hays?

  And we certainly are.

• 53:10John Coogan?

  And we are at 10154 and, uh, it's getting quieter. The, the, the, the folks of, uh, the Citadel Securities crew.

• 53:20Jordi Hays?

  Disappointed that nobody's manually executing trades, you know, yelling around.

• 53:24John Coogan?

  I also didn't see a single crowd surfing event happen. Maybe we can make it happen still.

• 53:28Jordi Hays?

  Nice to meet you guys on the app.

• 53:29John Coogan?

  Good to meet you. Good to meet you. Uh, where should we start? But please introduce yourself for the stream. Let people know who you are.

• 53:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm Chris Rasmussen. I'm the CTO at Figma.

• 53:36John Coogan?

  Great. Take us a little bit through your journey with the company. When did you join? What have you been working on, all that?

• 53:41Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, it's amazing to have like a barely a two sentence, you know, intro that just tells everything you need to really know. Took a lot to get there.

• 53:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a lot easier now than it was in the beginning.

• 53:51Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 53:51Speaker 03

  To explain it. But no, yeah, I joined Figma through a roundabout means. I actually started off as a contractor with the company.

• 53:56John Coogan?

  No way.

• 53:56Jordi Hays?

  So wow.

• 53:57Speaker 03

  For the first eight months, I was just writing code, helping to get the product launched publicly and then working from there.

• 54:01John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 54:02Speaker 03

  I think the thing that stood out to me back then was just like how incredible the team was.

• 54:05John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 54:06Speaker 03

  It was this insanely high aptitude team. It was probably the first time in my career I felt old.

• 54:09John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 54:10Speaker 03

  And yet I felt like everyone around me was just like some of the most gifted people I had a chance to work with. And the thing that like really sold me on the company was just how much people were trying to lift each other up rather than compete with one another. I think, you know, when you have these really fast growing startups, everyone's ambitious, everyone's hungry.

• 54:24John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 54:24Speaker 03

  And that's great. But I think it's really important to remember that, you know, you're not trying to drive towards an end state. You're trying to build something that's lasting.

• 54:30John Coogan?

  Does that culture just come from like four years in the trenches, not being like, you know, being a quiet company and kind of building in like this monastery almost is like the vibe that I get from like the early days and then you kind of carry that through?

• 54:43Jordi Hays?

  The other thing that stands out is-

• 54:44John Coogan?

  As opposed to like the first six months are insane and then you're like ups and downs?

• 54:47Jordi Hays?

  Sarah Guo said that the company was, leading up to the launch, the company was burning like $800,000 a month and didn't have a product really out in the wild. But I have to imagine you, you were using, were you guys, how early were you able to dog food the product and like build that conviction that, hey, we've actually built something really magical here?

• 55:03Speaker 03

  Yeah. So I, I started working with Figma about a month before the public launch. So there was a lot of work that had already been done. I think there was a time when people thought that, you know, everything just had to take six months. And if it took any longer,

• 55:13John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 55:13Speaker 03

  You know, it wasn't interesting. But you know, hard things take time.

• 55:16John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 55:16Speaker 03

  And I think it's a testament to the culture of the company and to Dylan to really persevere and push through that time and bring something to the market that hadn't existed before.

• 55:24John Coogan?

  So were you brought in for a specific WebGL experience or was WebGL at the focus of what you did? Or was there, were there other challenges? Because the, the whole like, the whole story gets kind of collapsed to like, oh, they just picked WebGL and like that was the key innovation. But I'm sure there was a ton of other stuff going on.

• 55:39Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, yeah. WebGL was, was the technology that enabled us to do graphics, like custom graphics in the browser and bypass some of the traditional browser graphics stack.

• 55:47Speaker 03

  I think I was brought in because I had this really weird intersection of things that aligned with the company. So I used to work at a company called Asana and I built a lot of their real time, kind of real time collaboration. Which relates to the multiplayer stuff that we've been working on at Figma and then funny enough, I had been taking a sabbatical. So the reason I got introduced to Figma is because I was working on a side project, it was just a passion project. And in my case, it was writing a game engine to simulate surfing because I'm a surfer. Stubborn enough to work on that long enough.

• 56:12John Coogan?

  You solving Navio strokes?

• 56:14Jordi Hays?

  I'm trying to think of the game, there was one. There was one browser surfing game that I used to play as a kid because I'm a surfer too. But it's funny you bring up Asana too, because like as, when I look back at like the real like start of my career. It was like I was quickly invited to Asana and I felt like such an adult. I was like, oh, look at me, I've got this, you know, very cutting edge, you know, project, project management tool. And then very quickly after that was invited to Figma and then ever since then I've used the product every, every single day.

• 56:42Speaker 03

  That's amazing, we're following the same path as.

• 56:46John Coogan?

  So yeah, what, what else were the technical challenges going on to release?

• 56:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, so I mean, first off, it's just not easy. I think a lot of people, like when they first looked at Figma back then, they were thinking, oh, a design tool, a single player tool. But under the hood, Figma is this real time multiplayer engine.

• 57:01John Coogan?

  And it had to be multiplayer from day one.

• 57:02Speaker 03

  Yes, because I think like the, the opportunity back then and the opportunity still today is not just to make a designer more efficient and more effective. It's also to bring the team closer together, to enable the best ideas to surface to the front and to help them align and ship and execute those ideas.

• 57:15Jordi Hays?

  And I was, I was saying to Andrew right before you jumped on the, for me, Figma was a social product in the COVID times. Because I would jump on, I'd open my laptop, my, my son would, would go to bed, he was just like six months old or something like that. I'd open up Figma and I'd see a couple other people on the team, like in, in the main, like, you know, file that we had. And I would just pop over their cursor and be like, you know, in the, in the comments being like, hey, what's up? I didn't realize you were up still.

• 57:42John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 57:43Jordi Hays?

  And it, it felt like a virtual office for the team at a time when there was like, no, there was not much social activity at all.

• 57:50Speaker 03

  Totally, yeah, I, I think it's really important to make work fun and to, you know. Again, it comes back to lifting each other up. We're all trying to kind of surface ideas and put things out there. And it's a lot more fun when you get to do it with your team. One of my favorite memories from the pandemic was actually this time when Slack went down. So Slack went down as like the middle of the pandemic.

• 58:06Jordi Hays?

  It doesn't go down that much, but you remember when it goes down.

• 58:09Speaker 03

  You do remember when it goes down. We use it too. We're big fans of Slack. But when it went down, we found out that a bunch of people were actually recreating the Slack UI inside of Figma. And then using our multiplayer functionality to chat on the canvas. It's just a super cool.

• 58:21John Coogan?

  That's wild.

• 58:22Jordi Hays?

  That's wild.

• 58:23John Coogan?

  Do you think that adding multiplayer features after launch would have been, if you play out like the counterfactual, would that have been much more technically challenging, you think? You think it's like, there's something this special about from day one, this is baked in?

• 58:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think there's, there's two sides to this problem. So the first is just getting the base technology in place. That's one problem. The other thing is actually rethinking all of the product features. So that they are actually eventually consistent and you're not stepping on each other's toes and dealing with conflicts. And so a big part of building collaborative multiplayer software is actually reasoning about how you design features. So they compose elegantly when multiple people are doing things at the same time. And that's very hard to bolt on later.

• 59:00John Coogan?

  Yeah, makes sense.

• 59:01Jordi Hays?

  The thing that makes it so powerful in my own words is if you have, no matter how talented an individual like designer, engineer, product person, founder is, no matter how much of a visionary they are, no matter how capable they are, the, whatever idea they initially have for something will be better once it has like the input of a group of people. And so the, the, the prehistoric era when design tools were built for like designers and like no one else would even have the file necessarily. It's just so wild to think back because I think like every, every great feature I've ever made, every great ad I've ever made, every great website was always like this combination of a bunch of smart people coming together and all contributing.

• 59:43Jordi Hays?

  And then Figma makes it so that it's as simple of like, even if you're not in the same room, right? Like I think about how much progress would have been lost if you. Didn't have something like Figma during COVID where if you were used to as a team working and like all working on the same, you know, feature and being able to be there in person. It it just made it so seamless to recreate that and actually build great things.

• 1:00:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. I I think the other aspect of design that sometimes people mistake it for is they think it's just about building like a static mock or a single image. And I think the reality is like the best designed products, people sweat the details all the way to production. So you're not just thinking about, you know, how is it going to look in a few key states? You're thinking about how is that going to work? What's the system behind the design? You know, and how are you going to make it performant and efficient? And how are you going to learn from that and keep iterating? And so it's a really broad space and super excited to be playing in it.

• 1:00:31Jordi Hays?

  What was the lead up to config like? You guys came out the gates with what? Four major new product areas, it felt like. And I remember Nairi gave me a little preview of what you guys were announcing and I was like, really? Four? I imagine it was pretty stressful for you, but you guys pulled it off?

• 1:00:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, we the team pulled it off to their credit. It was incredible. Yeah, we went from like four to eight products all in one config, which is really cool. And it was even cooler because I was on parental leave for the first month before config. So I was just so stoked to come back from my my heart little parental leave and see that this team had just cranked everything out and done such an incredible job.

• 1:01:07John Coogan?

  Yeah, talk to me about AI. Obviously, there are AI-enabled, you know, products. But then I imagine that AI is starting to infuse both in the internal workflows and also the subfeatures within products that exist already. And I'm I'm wondering how you think about organizational design, how you think about letting the existing team run with just adding on features and tools that leverage AI to setting up new teams and do you need a do you need a crack team that goes around and AIifies everything? Or is this just another tool in the tool chest that everyone can be pulling from regardless of where they sit in the org?

• 1:01:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, it's a it's a good question. We've been we've been kind of sweating that question ourselves, but I think it really comes back to what we've been doing all along for us. So at Figma, like when we started, the goal was to make designers more efficient and give them superpowers, if you will, so they can do, you know, more and, you know, bring the best ideas to life. And then also to enable them to collaborate more seamlessly and effortlessly with their team and make that whole process more accessible to their team as well.

• 1:02:08John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:08Speaker 03

  And I think AI is just this incredible tailwind and accelerant to all of that right now. It's like not hard to imagine the ways in which, you know, designers are using AI in the context of Figma, for example, with Figma Make, to not just like, you know, build a prototype, but actually breathe life into that prototype with prototyping and ship it all the way to production. At the same time, you know, all of these technologies are making the entire product suite that we have much more accessible to the people around them. And so, you know, people can come into Figma and they can prompt themselves to get started, but then they still have the full power of the Figma ecosystem. So, you know, when the prompting is no longer the most efficient way, they can just grab the mouse and, you know, grab that color wheel and find that perfect red color rather than trying to describe it.

• 1:02:46Jordi Hays?

  Final touch.

• 1:02:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, the final touch. So, yeah, it's super exciting.

• 1:02:48John Coogan?

  Yeah. Last question. I think we have someone else coming on in a second. Talk about the engineering culture. Figma is so interesting because I think every, I don't want to generalize too much, but it feels like everyone has some design chops or at least taste or cares about design. But at the same time, you have those deep WebGL roots. It feels like there's some pretty serious hardcore technologists in the organization. What's the blend? What is that like when those two orgs come together? I imagine that you've spent a decade integrating those two disciplines, but culturally, what does it take to really succeed at the company?

• 1:03:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think it takes like intellectual curiosity, right? That's what we seek out in our hires. Like, we're trying to find people who are just as passionate as we are about making things better, which really serves our customers too, because that's exactly what we're trying to help them do. You know, I think that we have like these incredible designers who also know how to code, and we have these incredible systems architects who have really, really good product sense as well.

• 1:03:41John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:03:41Speaker 03

  And I think it's this like kind of role blending that we've embraced as a culture. And we're starting to see, you know, with AI breaking down some of the learning barriers between these functions, other companies embrace as well.

• 1:03:51John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:03:51Jordi Hays?

  Last question. Andrew Reed says that Evan Wallace had some crazy contributions to the codebase early on. Any standout highlights in your mind?

• 1:04:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, Evan is just an incredibly gifted engineer. And the thing I remember is actually even before I joined Figma, when I was working on my own little game engine, I was reading these articles online about how to do constructive solid geometry and, you know, all these mathematical things. And I was reading these tutorials. And then when I started working with Evan at Figma, He's like, I went to his personal website and I realized the articles I was reading were written by him. Like, he's just, he's a super gifted person. It's really, really an honor to have worked with him.

• 1:04:27John Coogan?

  That's fantastic.

• 1:04:28Jordi Hays?

  Congratulations.

• 1:04:29John Coogan?

  Congratulations, everyone.

• 1:04:30Jordi Hays?

  An incredible journey to date and just getting started.

• 1:04:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, thank you so much.

• 1:04:33John Coogan?

  Thanks so much for hopping on stream.

• 1:04:35Speaker 03

  Great meeting you both.

• 1:04:35John Coogan?

  Congratulations. See you soon. And we are ready for our next guest on this Figma stream. TBPN is live from the New York Stock Exchange. Welcome to the stream. How you doing? Jordy, great to meet you. Danny, pleasure to meet you. What's happening?

• 1:04:48Speaker 04

  Me too.

• 1:04:48John Coogan?

  I've always heard great things. It's such a pleasure to meet you in person. Would you mind just doing a quick introduction for the folks who might not be familiar?

• 1:04:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, so I'm Danny Rimer. I'm with Index Ventures.

• 1:04:57John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 1:04:58Speaker 04

  And we're a firm that's based in London, San Francisco, and New York.

• 1:05:02John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 1:05:02Speaker 04

  We're investing early in growth stage. And we invested in Figma. We led the seed round in Figma. So, met Dylan when he was 18 for the first time, which is pretty amazing. I'm now going down, you know, melancholy hill as I'm nostalgia hill as I'm hearing this.

• 1:05:22Jordi Hays?

  What, I have to ask right away, what, how did you react early on to their kind of launch timeline, right? Like, the thing that keeps coming up today, and we talked with Andrew Reed about this earlier. Personally, as an angel, if somebody tells me they're building a software company for other businesses and they say that it's gonna, we're gonna launch in two years, I almost immediately think like, okay, this person probably needs to like, update their thinking, but

• 1:05:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:05:49Jordi Hays?

  And I think people generally use a Figma example of like, this fat MVP and it can be a trap because you can work on something for a long time and have it not, not really be that valuable. But I wonder what your immediate reaction was, given that this was, you know, well before the launch?

• 1:06:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, believe it or not, it's sort of in line with our contrarian approach. Like, we're contrarian on a bunch of stuff. We've been really You know, bearish on crypto. We didn't do any crypto investments. So for us, it was a feature, not a bug, that it was going to take that long.

• 1:06:19John Coogan?

  So how did you react to Dylan's?

• 1:06:20Jordi Hays?

  Contrarian about being loud, too, on Figma. A lot of people, I think, they saw like, you know, Index's ownership at the IPO and didn't, you know, you guys haven't been posting threads every single day.

• 1:06:32Speaker 04

  Well, it's about the team.

• 1:06:34Jordi Hays?

  But that's part of the culture.

• 1:06:34Speaker 04

  It's about the team.

• 1:06:35John Coogan?

  You know, you're bearish on crypto. How'd you react to Dylan's NFT profile picture?

• 1:06:39Speaker 04

  I think it's a god.

• 1:06:39John Coogan?

  Okay, this one.

• 1:06:41Speaker 04

  It makes sense.

• 1:06:42John Coogan?

  He's got the past for this.

• 1:06:43Speaker 04

  Doesn't mean that he can't be.

• 1:06:44John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:45Speaker 04

  But, but, you know, really, at the time, you know, all of the technology, all the software was sort of like in that meta spirit, that Facebook spirit of like, throw it against the wall, you know, ship quickly, doesn't matter if it's broken, break in.

• 1:07:01Jordi Hays?

  Build fast and break things.

• 1:07:02Speaker 04

  Build fast, break things. And this was so contrary. It's like, the two guys were contrarian, and they were committed to actually developing things for two years before we were going to have any sense as to whether it was going to be good or not. And it really had to compete against, Sketch was the primary competitor.

• 1:07:19John Coogan?

  I remember.

• 1:07:20Speaker 04

  And Sketch was a damn good product.

• 1:07:21Jordi Hays?

  People loved the product.

• 1:07:22Speaker 04

  Exactly, exactly.

• 1:07:23Jordi Hays?

  Which is like the hard, you know, even, even, you know, most investors, if they're looking at a new investment in a category with a very well-loved product that has massive saturation. I mean, I don't, I think it would be hard to find a product designer in San Francisco pre-Figma that wasn't using Sketch.

• 1:07:38Speaker 04

  You're absolutely right.

• 1:07:40John Coogan?

  Do you remember what the other comps were from that era of companies that had figured out how to do something utilitarian, but then bolted on a multiplayer aspect? We were kind of kicking around the obvious example of like Instagram. There were a few other photo filtering apps, but Instagram started with a social network out of the box, kind of bootstrapped it in the background, and wound up being a very successful product, obviously. But were there other companies that were coming to mind at that time?

• 1:08:04Speaker 04

  So we're big game investors.

• 1:08:05John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 1:08:06Speaker 04

  Right? So first of all, multiplayer was a term that we were very familiar with.

• 1:08:10John Coogan?

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 1:08:11Speaker 04

  And then we were Dropbox investors.

• 1:08:12John Coogan?

  That makes sense.

• 1:08:13Speaker 04

  So like, the notion of sort of the product, the consumerization of the enterprise, starting small, growing through, you know, guerrilla tactics and just mainstream adoption within the organization, we felt really comfortable with.

• 1:08:27John Coogan?

  Sure, sure. Is that, is that broadly product-led growth, or is product-led growth, in your mind, a broader term?

• 1:08:33Speaker 04

  No, that's it is BLG.

• 1:08:35John Coogan?

  Just BLG.

• 1:08:35Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 1:08:36John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:36Speaker 04

  And it was it was clear back to the your I totally agree with you. The line share of folks were using Dropbox and Sketch.

• 1:08:44John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:44Speaker 04

  And so for us, we knew what the problem was. Like, the first time I met Dylan was at Flipboard when he was 18.

• 1:08:51John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:51Speaker 04

  And they had amazing designers at Flipboard. And I just remember the confusion.

• 1:08:57John Coogan?

  Beautiful.

• 1:08:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, beautiful product.

• 1:08:58John Coogan?

  Beautiful, like, and also, I don't know if it was WebGL, but the 3D animation of the page flipping.

• 1:09:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:09:03John Coogan?

  Fantastic. And you can see that that comes through with like, OK, just the just the technical challenge of like, how would I implement that? I remember playing with it on the iPad and being like, OK, this is a different thing. This is hand-coded.

• 1:09:13Speaker 04

  I mean, they they launched it before the iPad was launched.

• 1:09:15John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, that's right.

• 1:09:16Speaker 04

  But the the versioning headaches that they were getting through, like, you know, they had all these amazing designers. One ended up leading design at Uber, another one is one of the senior designers at Apple for

• 1:09:28John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:28Speaker 04

  for like eight years. And the design problems that they would get into of like sending the wrong version, sending the wrong asset.

• 1:09:36John Coogan?

  Totally.

• 1:09:36Speaker 04

  You know, through Dropbox. It was clear that you needed a better solution.

• 1:09:40John Coogan?

  Yeah. What are you seeing broadly in terms of artificial intelligence as a sustaining or disruptive innovation to companies that have established a market? And then there's a whole bunch of companies that are coming in and saying like, we're going to be the AI version of that. It feels like in some ways you could say, oh, well, that's just like the multiplayer version, but in some ways it's more of a sustaining innovation. What's your broad take?

• 1:10:00Speaker 04

  I would say the latter. Sustaining innovation. I mean, I'm super bullish about AI. I mean, sure, it's hard not to be, right?

• 1:10:06John Coogan?

  Yeah, but you probably have to qualify that. Like, bullish on AI doesn't necessarily mean you're like upset about what's happening at, you know, the Foundation Model Labs or in terms of CapEx or Nvidia. Like, there's a million different places.

• 1:10:17Speaker 04

  But sort of like. You know, our our job is to see a trend and then to analyze a trend and then to go pretty deep.

• 1:10:26John Coogan?

  OK, yeah.

• 1:10:26Speaker 04

  And we are very bullish on AI.

• 1:10:28John Coogan?

  Very bullish.

• 1:10:29Jordi Hays?

  Well, it seems like every other time I see a billion-dollar M and A headline, it's another index always set up with the most.

• 1:10:35Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 1:10:37Jordi Hays?

  The thing that strikes me about Figma that I think is still powerful to this day is the the simultaneously, like, the complexity of the product and the simplicity of the product. If you land, if you get invited to Figma and you've never used the product before, you just get dropped in to the canvas. You're there. You can see the other people. And despite all that you can do with the product, it's still. I just found it like somehow intuitive even for somebody and I think that's yeah very, very difficult.

• 1:11:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, and you know, the the co-founder, you know, Dylan was brilliant enough to hire his co-founder, the best computer scientist he had ever met, who was, you know, his TA at Brown, right? Like convince him to stop doing a PhD and to code. Wow. That guy had such an understanding of that. Yeah. Or it still does. Yeah. Evan still has a such a clear understanding of how to create the lowest common denominator and make it inclusive with everyone while also because it's design and design is going to become central to everything, have enough sophistication so that you can differentiate from anyone else.

• 1:11:42Jordi Hays?

  Yep. No, it's really, it's really amazing to me, the magic of Figma and the thing that I, from the very first Figma that I was invited to, and that was obviously why the growth was so insane early is it's like natural product-led growth versus forced product-led growth.

• 1:11:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:12:00Jordi Hays?

  Was this, you know, as a user, if you can, if the thing that you provide a customer or user is the ability to take the thing that's in their mind and make it real so they can see it, that's like the most magic thing ever. And the other thing I would comp kind of this moment to is, you know, we cover Alphabet and Google a lot and we talk about how Google's initial mission to like organize the world's information and, you know, make it useful. I forget exactly how they position it and how that's so aligned to Gen AI in the sense that a lot of what LMs do today is just make organizing information for you and making it useful.

• 1:12:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:12:37Jordi Hays?

  That's like the core of the value. And it feels like Figma of this core of like taking a spark of an idea and making it into a thing is so aligned with generative AI because it's like, oh, you want to make a website? Like describe it. You want to make an app? Describe it. You want to change the details? You want to change this color? You want to, you want to build like an entire, you know, app underneath the website? It's just all there and reducing that time from spark of an idea to like real product.

• 1:13:02Speaker 04

  That's right. And I think it is a really important. Component and making sure that the human intervention is critical for differentiation. Right? Like you need that in order like the idea has to first manifest, but you can do that with AI tools. But then it has to have a human differentiation, like a human intervention that makes it way better to use.

• 1:13:26Jordi Hays?

  And this is the same, this is the same way that making things in an organization work. You might have the smartest person on a team, have an amazing idea and get it, get it here. And then, and then the intern might throw in, hey, by the way, what if we did it like this? And everybody's like, oh, that's a good idea.

• 1:13:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:13:40Jordi Hays?

  And even with like super intelligence or whatever we're hurling towards.

• 1:13:44Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:13:44Jordi Hays?

  It's like, you know, you can, you might be able to create a V1, but it's, it's this combination of ideas and experiences that makes it truly special.

• 1:13:51John Coogan?

  Uh, last question, uh, give me the update on index. It's a huge fund growing. What's the contrarian strategy?

• 1:13:58Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:58John Coogan?

  We're hearing rumors, are we gonna see you out there soon?

• 1:14:01Speaker 04

  Yes, of course.

• 1:14:02John Coogan?

  Are you gonna see public funds?

• 1:14:03Speaker 04

  I mean, I guess our contrarian element has been not to grow enormously.

• 1:14:08John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:08Speaker 04

  So, you know, we've had a billion dollar venture fund and $2 billion growth fund for a decade now. And we haven't expanded our size. So like, the idea is that from our perspective, investing is a craft.

• 1:14:20John Coogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:14:21Speaker 04

  And if we get bigger, we might lose the focus. And we're not going to be able to have the same relationship with the founders that we, that we adore having.

• 1:14:30John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:14:30Speaker 04

  So we just have to generate the returns. So that's what we're focused on, like keeping it small and, and hopefully, I mean, you know, I have, I have some amazing partners who.

• 1:14:42John Coogan?

  How big is the team now?

• 1:14:43Speaker 04

  Um, we're, we are, we're seven investing partners.

• 1:14:46John Coogan?

  Seven partners, yeah.

• 1:14:48Speaker 04

  Yeah. And what's cool is that, you know, like, Shardul is behind Wiz for us.

• 1:14:53John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 1:14:53Speaker 04

  And, um, we have Dream Games and we have Service Titan.

• 1:14:59John Coogan?

  Do you see it as a mentorship business?

• 1:15:01Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:15:02John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:02Speaker 04

  That's, that's, that's, that's what excites us.

• 1:15:05John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:05Speaker 04

  Is that the next generation.

• 1:15:07John Coogan?

  You already have met them.

• 1:15:08Speaker 04

  Are better, are better than the current generation.

• 1:15:11John Coogan?

  That's great. Uh, well, thank you so much for coming.

• 1:15:13Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 1:15:14John Coogan?

  It was fantastic. We'd love to have you back on the show soon.

• 1:15:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, pleasure. Thanks a lot.

• 1:15:17John Coogan?

  I'll take the microphone. And we will bring in our next guest. Jordy, do you have any updates from the timeline? What else is going on? We have Mamoon. Hello, welcome to the stream. Thank you so much. I like that pin. That pin is fantastic.

• 1:15:29Speaker 05

  We've been excited to have you on the show. I'm so fired up to be here. It's so fun.

• 1:15:33John Coogan?

  Perfect timing. Give us a little introduction on yourself and what do you do?

• 1:15:38Speaker 05

  All right. Well, I'm a partner at Kleiner Perkins, early-stage venture capitalist. Kleiner Perkins, the firm has been around for 50-plus years in amazing companies like Google and Amazon and Netscape and Figma, of course. And yeah, we invest in early-stage companies, but we also have a growth fund that invests in some pretty cool later-stage opportunities as well.

• 1:15:58John Coogan?

  And what is the story of meeting Dylan and Figma? When did that come together?

• 1:16:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think I met him- You guys hit the B, right? We did the B, yeah. And that was in 2017.

• 1:16:07John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:08Speaker 05

  I met Dylan probably in 2017, early in 17. I was on a board with John Lilly, who led the Series A.

• 1:16:14John Coogan?

  Oh yeah, we read his blog post today.

• 1:16:16Speaker 05

  And John and I were involved with the company. It didn't really work out.

• 1:16:20John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 1:16:20Speaker 05

  And he told me at the time, hey, this thing may not work out, so I owe you one.

• 1:16:28Speaker 05

  I'm going to introduce you to this guy.

• 1:16:29John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 1:16:29Speaker 05

  Dylan.

• 1:16:30John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:30Speaker 05

  And you're gonna love him. And by the way, like your background in Box and Yammer and Slack really could help.

• 1:16:37John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:37Speaker 05

  And so, spend time together, get to know each other, which we did over a bunch of months. And we really hit it off. And later that year, Dylan decided to raise a Series B. And this is around the time when the product had just come out of beta. And you could hear people talking about Figma. And you know, the company had been around for five years. So this was a long wind-up.

• 1:17:00John Coogan?

  Yep, totally.

• 1:17:00Speaker 05

  And it was coming out of beta, just started to monetize a few customers. And you'd walk around, actually, South Park, where we were based, and you'd see people in coffee shops, the designer types, using Figma.

• 1:17:14John Coogan?

  Interesting.

• 1:17:15Speaker 05

  Three, four, five years prior, you'd see Slack on people's screens. And so, okay, there's something going on. And then when I saw my friend Josh Williams, who's a designer, incredible designer, it's like, oh, Josh is using it. That means that the designer community has really latched on to Figma.

• 1:17:30John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:30Speaker 05

  And so, took a few tidbits, data points, and then I remember asking Dylan, like, show me this one chart. All I need to see is one chart. It's called the L28.

• 1:17:39John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:40Speaker 05

  It's the usage for the whole user base over a 28-day period of time. It's a histogram. It's kind of nerdy, but Dylan, just go look at this data and tell me what it looks like. So he sent it over, and it had this little smile, which effectively shows that at day 14, 15, 16 out of 28 days, many of the users were using it for like every day of the work week, which meant that effectively, if you're a designer, you are using Figma to get your work done.

• 1:18:10John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:11Speaker 05

  And there's just no question about it.

• 1:18:12Jordi Hays?

  By the way, I'm a non-designer, and I kind of came online in the work world startup game in 2017, and I was very quickly a DAU. Like, I use it all the time. As somebody that didn't consider myself a designer, I was just invited to Figma. And I was like, wait, this is a pretty good way to just do a lot of different types of work, whether you're making a deck, or marketing assets, or a website, or anything, so.

• 1:18:35Speaker 05

  Totally. And that's, you saw that, you know, I think the first board deck I think I ever got was actually in Figma. So, and Figma slides wasn't a product that we just launched, actually. Yeah, so, so yeah, you saw this like incredible depth of engagement with the product that I'd seen with products like Slack. And obviously like Slack, we all use and we love, some hate, but mostly love, right?

• 1:19:00John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:00Speaker 05

  And you saw that early-

• 1:19:02Jordi Hays?

  Regardless of how people feel about it, they still use it.

• 1:19:03John Coogan?

  So, yeah, L28, that's effectively like a churn analysis, but short-term?

• 1:19:08Jordi Hays?

  It's usage over the first 28 days.

• 1:19:11John Coogan?

  Because you should see some trials to conversion.

• 1:19:13Speaker 05

  Usage over a 28-day period. It's actually just a, take any user, like the whole user base.

• 1:19:17Jordi Hays?

  The whole cohort, yeah.

• 1:19:18Speaker 05

  Like, let's say a thousand users.

• 1:19:19John Coogan?

  Okay, so a random slice, they could have been installed months ago.

• 1:19:22Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:19:22John Coogan?

  But you want to see how they use it.

• 1:19:23Speaker 05

  Every person who signed up, let's- A thousand users?

• 1:19:26John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:19:27Speaker 05

  And did they use it for that once a month, twice a month?

• 1:19:30John Coogan?

  Oh, okay, okay, okay.

• 1:19:31Speaker 05

  Or 28 times, like 28 days out of the month?

• 1:19:33John Coogan?

  Okay, got it, yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:34Speaker 05

  So then you saw the tick up, like the smile curve.

• 1:19:37John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:37Speaker 05

  And only consumer companies typically look at that.

• 1:19:40John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:40Speaker 05

  So to see that sort of behavior out of a enterprise software product

• 1:19:44John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:19:45Speaker 05

  was incredible.

• 1:19:46John Coogan?

  Yeah. One of the analysis I saw was rule of 40. People were talking about how Figma is in a great position right now. Great margins, but also great growth rate. Add that together, that's the rule of 40. When did the rule of 40 come into your world? What did it factor into the series B? Or was it something you started tracking later? What can you tell me?

• 1:20:04Jordi Hays?

  Just the cafe analysis.

• 1:20:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:20:06John Coogan?

  Was enough?

• 1:20:07Speaker 05

  Real later, actually, funny enough, I think about 10 years ago, I came up with this thing called a quick ratio.

• 1:20:15John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 1:20:15Speaker 05

  Which was more interesting to me because for early-stage companies, it showed a quick ratio is effectively, in a given month, how much, how many users did you add?

• 1:20:25John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:20:25Speaker 05

  And how many users did you churn?

• 1:20:27John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 1:20:27Speaker 05

  So let's say you added 400 users.

• 1:20:30John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:20:30Speaker 05

  And you churned 100.

• 1:20:31John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:20:31Speaker 05

  Your quick ratio is four.

• 1:20:32John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:33Speaker 05

  And that was actually like a good number.

• 1:20:34John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 1:20:34Speaker 05

  But if you're adding 200 and losing 150, not good.

• 1:20:38John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:20:38Speaker 05

  Right? That's a leaky bucket.

• 1:20:39John Coogan?

  It's a leaky bucket.

• 1:20:40Speaker 05

  So for an early-stage person, the quick ratio was just way better than

• 1:20:45John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 1:20:45Speaker 05

  looking at growth rate and then looking at the net income.

• 1:20:48John Coogan?

  Margins could be all over the place. Based on what they did that month or that quarter. Makes sense.

• 1:20:52Jordi Hays?

  One question I have, I'm curious how you see it. So it was Index, Greylock, KP, Sequoia, A16Z were the leads. If this company, if Figma had been started in 2020, do you think there would have been one or two funds just like going back and forth? Was it, was it, you know, I feel like today you'll see these like fast, fast follow rounds.

• 1:21:13John Coogan?

  Concentration seems to be a real focus for a lot of funds.

• 1:21:17Jordi Hays?

  And was that something you think that like Dylan was just pushing for? Wanted a diverse board? Or was it more just the state of venture at that time?

• 1:21:26Speaker 05

  I think Dylan is just very nuanced and detail oriented and very methodical. And every round he had in his mind, who was the investor, the right investor for me at this point in time? Which is how I think he even sought out this, our relationship where John Lilly and Dylan was telling me downstairs, you know, you know, we sought you out for that series B was like a, you know, a beeline.

• 1:21:53John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:54Speaker 05

  And I think Dylan had that same sentiment towards the series C with Andrew Reed, who was just on, right?

• 1:21:59John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:59Speaker 05

  And then even the round thereafter. So he was always in his mind had is this is the, the person, the firm that I really want to work with, based on their skillset, their capabilities. And he went after it and he got it.

• 1:22:14John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:15Speaker 05

  Every single time.

• 1:22:17John Coogan?

  Uh, how do you think the board evolved? It seems like there's a lot of different investors, different firms joining. How do you think the board will evolve going forward? And it already has evolved. Can you talk to some of the additions and what the rationale was behind those?

• 1:22:29Speaker 05

  Yeah. So we, in just in the last month, we've, we've added three incredible people.

• 1:22:33John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:34Speaker 05

  Bill McDermott, OG, right? Like OG. You have, you have to have Bill on the show if you haven't.

• 1:22:39John Coogan?

  Oh no, we'd love to.

• 1:22:39Speaker 05

  Oh my God. Bill is the man.

• 1:22:41John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:41Speaker 05

  I mean, obviously he runs ServiceNow.

• 1:22:43John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:22:44Speaker 05

  Before that he ran SAP.

• 1:22:45John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:22:46Speaker 05

  So he, he's just a, the, the CEO of all, like the goat.

• 1:22:49John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:49Speaker 05

  In terms of like running an enterprise software business.

• 1:22:52John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:22:53Speaker 05

  And we added Mike Krieger.

• 1:22:55John Coogan?

  Mike Krieger.

• 1:22:55Speaker 05

  Uh, founder of Instagram. Come on guys.

• 1:22:57John Coogan?

  And, and a very interesting, people wouldn't think about it, but a very design focused.

• 1:23:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:23:01John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:02Speaker 05

  Anthropic. And now two product officers at Anthropic. He was downstairs.

• 1:23:06John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:07Speaker 05

  And then we added Louis Vanon, Louis Vanon, I think is from Duolingo.

• 1:23:12John Coogan?

  Amazing.

• 1:23:13Speaker 05

  And he's a founder, a CEO, went early in on AI.

• 1:23:16John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:23:17Speaker 05

  And, uh, you know, running a public company.

• 1:23:19John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:23:19Speaker 05

  Uh, also a KP company. So just like three folks who really bring different skillsets, but are just like A plus, top notch. And I think that's sort of how Dylan has really built the company from, you know, setting the tone, the culture. Amongst the team, his executive team, the board, and it's, you know, you couldn't be more proud of what's been built there.

• 1:23:41John Coogan?

  It's fantastic.

• 1:23:42Jordi Hays?

  When did, last question, then we'll, I'm sure you have a busy evening. One, when did the kind of Gen AI opportunity click with you and Figma? Was it instantly? Was there a specific moment that you realized what an opportunity Figma would have in terms of, if you're already helping people turn ideas into real things and products?

• 1:24:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:24:01Jordi Hays?

  Gen AI has an obvious, you know, immediate application there.

• 1:24:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think there's the more the features that allow you to do things with AI inside of the canvas of Figma.

• 1:24:10Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:11Speaker 05

  And then there's the, what do you, what can you do from prompting to code to design? And I think there's both elements of AI to integrate into the Figma product, which we've done. But I think Dylan just being such a, so early on technology, but also timing it really right as well.

• 1:24:29Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:30Speaker 05

  Was early, but you know, more recently, as you know, we've launched four products and one product is very heavy on AI, the Figma Make product.

• 1:24:37John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:37Speaker 05

  Which goes from prompt to code.

• 1:24:38John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:24:39Speaker 05

  So really just timing matters. And I think, you know, Dylan and the team are all over it. And you just had Chris on and.

• 1:24:46Jordi Hays?

  And you have millions and millions of DAU, weekly active users that are ready saying, please give us more.

• 1:24:53John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:54Jordi Hays?

  We're ready. So.

• 1:24:55John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:55Jordi Hays?

  It's amazing opportunity.

• 1:24:56John Coogan?

  Well, thank you so much.

• 1:24:56Speaker 05

  Thank you, guys. I'm a fan of the show. Thank you so much.

• 1:24:59Jordi Hays?

  Come back on sometime soon.

• 1:25:00John Coogan?

  Fantastic. And I think we're going to hop on with Dylan right now. Welcome to the stream.

• 1:25:04Jordi Hays?

  Here we go. Looking incredibly sharp.

• 1:25:07John Coogan?

  Thanks so much. Fantastic looking suit.

• 1:25:10Jordi Hays?

  Great.

• 1:25:10John Coogan?

  Uh, what do you have there? You have a gavel? We're going to ask you to hold this.

• 1:25:13Dylan Field?

  You know, I mean, you just gotta hold on to that.

• 1:25:16John Coogan?

  Because you rang the opening bell. Walk me through your day. What did you actually do today? Have you gotten any sleep? Are you okay?

• 1:25:22Jordi Hays?

  Your day also started, I don't know, I don't know.

• 1:25:24Dylan Field?

  Is that how bad I look?

• 1:25:25John Coogan?

  No, no, no. I just know the schedule is brutal. Starts in the morning.

• 1:25:28Dylan Field?

  You know, it's been intense schedule, but it was a great day.

• 1:25:31John Coogan?

  Amazing.

• 1:25:31Dylan Field?

  And the team was incredible. And yeah, the, in terms of the gavel, I mean, I just feel like. You're holding this thing, you know, you can do anything.

• 1:25:41Jordi Hays?

  You can do anything.

• 1:25:42Dylan Field?

  So it's a powerful gavel. I feel like it's time to make a bunch of product decisions.

• 1:25:46John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:47Dylan Field?

  Not sure on what yet, but like, you know, just.

• 1:25:49John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:50Jordi Hays?

  The gavel will symbolize.

• 1:25:51John Coogan?

  We also shipped a bunch of product updates today too, right?

• 1:25:54Dylan Field?

  We did, yeah.

• 1:25:54John Coogan?

  What were the highlights?

• 1:25:55Dylan Field?

  I mean, a lot of highlights, but the things that I was super excited about, one was Offset Vector.

• 1:26:00John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 1:26:00Dylan Field?

  Because we've been getting requests from that, uh, from the start of Figma.

• 1:26:03John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:04Dylan Field?

  And then also for Dev Mode MCP, we made a bunch of improvements. And, you know, it's interesting with Dev Mode MCP, I mean, this is one where, uh, the team was like, yeah, I think it's time to release it. And, you know, we kind of did the walkthrough and.

• 1:26:16John Coogan?

  This is for MCP servers for AI agents essentially?

• 1:26:18Dylan Field?

  Yeah, basically it lets you translate, uh, you know, designs the code.

• 1:26:21John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:26:22Dylan Field?

  And pull that in via MCP.

• 1:26:23John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:26:24Dylan Field?

  And, uh, kind of an extension of our Dev Mode functionality. And I was nervous, uh, because I just felt like we have so much to build out still and we do.

• 1:26:32John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:32Dylan Field?

  But it's been great to see the reception.

• 1:26:34John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:35Dylan Field?

  The reception has been really positive and then today we made some more improvements to it, but this is just the start. There's a lot more coming on Dev Mode.

• 1:26:40John Coogan?

  Yeah, we were talking about this. We were talking about this earlier, uh, kind of making the argument, I think we both agreed that, uh, Figma fits the traditional definition of like a platform that was designed, uh, was, I think, defined by Microsoft. Uh, this idea that the value that's created on top of the product is greater than the product, the value that the product captures. Um, but how do you think that's going to change or what is the shape of it right now? I know that there are, we, we have friends who run agencies that probably wouldn't exist if Figma did not exist. I'm sure they would find a way, but they're like, they have built a whole company and business around it. Uh, and they're obviously incredibly synergistic with you.

• 1:27:14Jordi Hays?

  Every single, every single thing that I've done in my career.

• 1:27:17John Coogan?

  Yeah, arguably Jordy's career is.

• 1:27:19Jordi Hays?

  Like, I don't think I've ever closed, like even Figma, I always love using it in the browser. It's just as good. I don't think I've ever closed.

• 1:27:25John Coogan?

  You have the tab open.

• 1:27:26Jordi Hays?

  Figma has just been like, you know, 99.9% like.

• 1:27:29John Coogan?

  Yeah, it's your operating system.

• 1:27:30Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:31John Coogan?

  It's your operating system.

• 1:27:31Dylan Field?

  Yeah, I love, love hearing that, obviously. Uh, but also, I mean, it's, it's, it's folks like you who are in the product so much every day that give us the best feedback and we learn from it. And the thing about designers is they are so thoughtful with their feedback.

• 1:27:47John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:48Dylan Field?

  And they really helped steer us and really oriented us towards the right things to build. And then, you know, of course, you got to also take some bets where everyone's saying one thing and you're going to do another thing. But or or things that, you know, people aren't thinking about yet. And so we try to do a mix.

• 1:28:04John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:04Dylan Field?

  Uh, but it's the feedback from designers, I think, is consistently just like probably some of the best feedback in the world.

• 1:28:09John Coogan?

  I saw it.

• 1:28:10Dylan Field?

  So we're very lucky.

• 1:28:11John Coogan?

  It was crazy, standing room only and standing ovations. It's like Woodstock, it was crazy.

• 1:28:15Dylan Field?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:16John Coogan?

  I want to talk about organizational design in the age of AI. Um, how is the org structure changing, if any, at all? Um, I imagine that you have your own team of designers and then developers and front end and back end down to hardcore WebGL folks, right? And there's some sort of, you know, uh, uh, different tiers and different groups and product groups. But how does AI fit in? How does it change it? Obviously with Figma Make, it's kind of its own product team. But then I imagine that there are folks using AI all over the organization. So how do you think about AI playing a role either as a vertical product focus or horizontal slice or support teams? Like, how are you tussling with that?

• 1:28:55Dylan Field?

  I think it's got to be kind of many things at once. So, uh, one dynamic that's always interesting is, uh, you have to motivate research by having, uh, you know, great product applications. But also, you know, if you don't have the research done, sometimes people go, I can't build the product application part yet.

• 1:29:15John Coogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:29:16Dylan Field?

  And I think you just have to break that chicken and egg.

• 1:29:18John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 1:29:18Dylan Field?

  You have to, um, you know, motivate by showing here's what's possible. And then you have to also, uh, try to break through and find new ways to do research, uh, so that you're able to inspire people on the product side. And it's just a virtuous loop if you can get it right. But the, um, I think I'd say more broadly on organizations beyond even just Figma is, you know, the core thesis of Figma is like over the last decade, we've had this point of view that as the inputs to software change, uh, as more people are creating software, as there's just an exponentially more amount of software in the world, then design craft point of view, that's the differentiator.

• 1:29:58Dylan Field?

  And I think that there's a really interesting dynamic that we're observing. You know, it was like two decades ago, design was lipstick on a pig. You know, make it pretty. And maybe a decade ago, the conversation shifted to, okay, design's how it works. You gotta really think about design through the whole process. And designers were like, yeah, we've always been saying this, but finally everyone else kind of got it. And then now I think it's, literally it's how you win or lose.

• 1:30:23John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:24Dylan Field?

  And I think there's, if you look at some of the companies that are doing the best, they, you know, so many of which have been on your show.

• 1:30:33John Coogan?

  I'm intimately familiar. It is my number one complaint between many of the modern products. I wind up making a, making a decision not on the foundational technology, but instead on the user experience and the UI, which feels crazy in the age of benchmarks and like something that's so quantifiable. And yet I find myself making decisions based on the unquantifiable.

• 1:30:54Jordi Hays?

  John Lilly had a, had a post earlier congratulating you and the team. He said in a 2003 interview about the iPod, Steve Jobs famously said, "Design is not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works." And he said that you just built like around this like core idea from the very beginning.

• 1:31:11Dylan Field?

  Absolutely, but I think it's evolving. I think it's now how you win.

• 1:31:14John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:15Dylan Field?

  And the companies that are understanding that, I think are just, are seeing them outperform. And the ones that are sort of like catching up, they're investing a lot in design. And not just in the design team, in how to get everyone in the organization to be part of the design process. And I think this is really interesting for the designer's role because designers are the ones who are then going to have to lead the charge.

• 1:31:39John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:39Dylan Field?

  And that's going to be a lot of power. And we're going to start seeing so many more designer CEOs.

• 1:31:44John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:44Dylan Field?

  So many more design oriented folks who are, you know, leading and shaping directions of the future of software and of companies more broadly, because every company is becoming a software company now.

• 1:31:57John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:57Dylan Field?

  And I just think that it's going to be quite a shift. I, I suspect we're already seeing this a little bit, but you know, maybe not at the level of magnitude of, you know, Zach throwing these offers at researchers.

• 1:32:11John Coogan?

  Maybe a lot of it.

• 1:32:12Dylan Field?

  But like, I think there's a parallel at a different scale on design. I think that the design talent wars are heating up.

• 1:32:19John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:32:19Dylan Field?

  And people are realizing that they have to get ahead.

• 1:32:22John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:22Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, really, I mean, the like clearest example here is despite how far Gen AI has come and how many new capabilities there are. Incredible designers are more in demand than ever. It's like you just get hit up all the time. And I think there's like a few people in my rolodex that I'm like, these people are truly incredible, but like, good luck recruiting them. Because like they have 50 other offers and infinite optionality.

• 1:32:46John Coogan?

  Yeah. Talk to me about research. You you mentioned doing research in the context of the of Figma. And I'm interested to know.

• 1:32:54Jordi Hays?

  And this dates back to Evan's Evan's work.

• 1:32:56John Coogan?

  I was thinking about the WebGL example. I was thinking about, you know, watching GPT-3 come out, GPT-4, and kind of understanding capabilities research. Like, walk me through the understanding of like, how do you think about design translating to tokens and then AI? Like, how do you even test all these new functionalities? Like, you can operate on pixels, diffusion models or tokens and HTML. There's so many different angles. Like, what does research actually look like in the Figma context?

• 1:33:22Dylan Field?

  Yeah, um, without sharing too much.

• 1:33:26Dylan Field?

  I I think one of the high level framing might be, you know, diffusion models are excellent. And just like, if you look at sort of some of the things that we've seen with diffusion, the results over time, I mean, it it's really felt like more of an exponential.

• 1:33:41John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:42Dylan Field?

  Obviously with LMs, whether it be language or toy problems and code and math.

• 1:33:51Dylan Field?

  That feels like an exponential.

• 1:33:52John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:52Dylan Field?

  I think that neither is quite the approach for design just yet. I mean, obviously with LMs.

• 1:33:59John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 1:33:59Dylan Field?

  You know, we use models to generate make outputs and make.

• 1:34:04John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:04Dylan Field?

  And Figma Make, we're super excited about. And I think it's the ideal case because you go from zero to one.

• 1:34:09John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:34:10Dylan Field?

  But we are still in a world where there are constraints.

• 1:34:13John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:34:13Dylan Field?

  And to actually get to the point where you're differentiating the output, where you're adding that craft, that point of view.

• 1:34:20John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:34:21Dylan Field?

  You know, the traditional models don't get you there.

• 1:34:24John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:34:24Dylan Field?

  And even if they were to be able to increase quality of visual output, I think it actually only makes design more powerful.

• 1:34:32John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:34:33Dylan Field?

  Because if you had, you know, five different designers in this room who are experts in their craft and they're all looking at, you know, some wonderfully generated design that was actually very good, which is not maybe where we're at yet.

• 1:34:47John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:48Dylan Field?

  They probably have five different points of view. And if that's how you're going to stand out is your design craft, your brand, your marketing.

• 1:34:55John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:56Dylan Field?

  I think it requires intentionality and systems thinking, not just in the design and software context, but even beyond cultural, business constraints. And so, you know, we have in the front of the New York Stock Exchange today, the sign, "Design is Everyone's Business."

• 1:35:10John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:35:11Dylan Field?

  It's so true.

• 1:35:11Jordi Hays?

  Design went public.

• 1:35:12John Coogan?

  It also does seem particularly like reinforcement learning resistant. Because there's no like taste benchmark yet.

• 1:35:18Dylan Field?

  Non-deterministic.

• 1:35:18John Coogan?

  It's non-deterministic, yeah.

• 1:35:20Jordi Hays?

  How did you think about adding to your board heading into the IPO and beyond? Every single investor that led various rounds, from Andrew to Danny to Mamoon, talked about your thoughtfulness around choosing the right partners at each stage. And I know you added Mike Krieger and Bill, and I'd love to.

• 1:35:41Dylan Field?

  Louis, too.

• 1:35:42John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:43Dylan Field?

  And yeah, we're super fortunate to have just the most incredible board. We also have two other independents, Lynn. She's the former CMO of Salesforce and on some other incredible boards, too. Kelly, Kelly was the former CFO at Cisco.

• 1:35:58Jordi Hays?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:35:58Dylan Field?

  And they are just powerhouses. They're amazing. And yeah, I'm just, my mindset, whether it be on the VC side, independent side, although I think as of right now, everyone's now an independent.

• 1:36:13Dylan Field?

  Technically.

• 1:36:13Jordi Hays?

  As of a few hours ago.

• 1:36:15Dylan Field?

  Yeah, a few hours ago with the gavel.

• 1:36:18Dylan Field?

  But yeah, I think that you're looking for folks that you can learn from.

• 1:36:22John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:22Dylan Field?

  Folks that you love spending time with. Because the perfect board relationship is one where, you know, you're going to be calling them up with questions and you're going to really enjoy spending the time and working through with them.

• 1:36:34John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:34Dylan Field?

  And I don't think they have to be folks, you don't have to find board members who are. Universally great at everything. That's a high ask.

• 1:36:41John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:42Dylan Field?

  But when you can find people that spike in certain areas and then you know what to call them for, that is awesome. And so I think we have a very great group on the board, also in our exec team, where we just on all these different levels of the company have folks that really spike in different areas. And then coming together, they really have, they can really help everyone in the group get to the right decision.

• 1:37:08John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:09Jordi Hays?

  Do you think your team pushed Nicie to the limit? You can't walk anywhere in the building without seeing like either the most iconic merch on the back of somebody down on the trading floor or, you know, this like meticulously designed sign pointing you to like a storage closet or something like that.

• 1:37:25Dylan Field?

  You know, I, I, I had some early previews, but it's nothing like walking around for real. I mean, this was incredible to see.

• 1:37:32Jordi Hays?

  It was probably the best this place has ever looked.

• 1:37:34Dylan Field?

  I, I haven't been here before.

• 1:37:37Jordi Hays?

  First time?

• 1:37:38Dylan Field?

  You know, first time, so I can't comment on that, but I thought today looked exceptional. They were great, great to work with. But yeah.

• 1:37:44John Coogan?

  Talk about the evolution of the company culture over just the entire journey. I mean, I have to imagine that like just the vibe changed from being, you know, pre, pre-release for four years and then, and then growing on this kind of steady trajectory where it was obviously tier one after tier one coming in, but never felt like super overhyped and never saw you on like the DFID podcast circuit, if you know what I'm talking about.

• 1:38:15Dylan Field?

  I think we're doing that right now, DFID.

• 1:38:17John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:18Jordi Hays?

  Well, you and Evan both, both kept, you know, a fair, a lower profile than other companies with your financial and

• 1:38:26John Coogan?

  Yeah, everything.

• 1:38:27Jordi Hays?

  Performance and growth.

• 1:38:29John Coogan?

  Yeah. So where do you see the company culture going from here on out? Is anything changing or do you think there's an evolution or shift?

• 1:38:36Dylan Field?

  Yeah. I mean, I think you look at the folks that come to Figma.

• 1:38:38John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:39Dylan Field?

  We sort of shine this bat signal in the sky of, through our product. And the folks that want to come work at Figma, a lot of them are people that use Figma.

• 1:38:48John Coogan?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:38:49Dylan Field?

  It's a very creative team. We're very oriented towards craft. We, I think as a group, are very first principles oriented. We're in the weeds, but we can talk about strategy. People need to be able to go across all those different levels. And I think very growth mindset, very humble, very kind. And I just think we're builders.

• 1:39:11John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:12Dylan Field?

  And I would imagine that in the future, that will all be the same.

• 1:39:19Dylan Field?

  I don't see why that would change. The things that, you know, I think about a lot right now are just clarity. I think that in order to, this is true for, I think, a lot of organizations. Just the more clarity you can create for your team, both top down, but also noticing and creating processes for stuff to bubble up from everyone in the organization and then have it me in the middle and quickly have a great cycle time where you're able to figure out, okay, what is the right decision here and progress? That's what will make it so that you're able to adapt rapidly in an era where everyone has to adapt rapidly right now. Things are changing that fast.

• 1:40:01John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:02Jordi Hays?

  How did the product demo go the other day?

• 1:40:06John Coogan?

  The investment bankers, are they converts, converts now?

• 1:40:09Dylan Field?

  You know, I did have one investor come up to me in the roadshow and say that they wanted to be a designer now.

• 1:40:16John Coogan?

  Wow.

• 1:40:17Dylan Field?

  So I don't know if they actually quit their job and, you know.

• 1:40:21Jordi Hays?

  It's never too late.

• 1:40:22Dylan Field?

  That's what I told them.

• 1:40:23John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:24Dylan Field?

  I was like, you can be, it's okay.

• 1:40:26John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:26Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:27Dylan Field?

  We didn't have time to go deep on it, but like, I was excited to hear that.

• 1:40:30Jordi Hays?

  I had never taken a design class. I'd never considered myself a designer. I knew I was creative. And I did have this moment like in 2021 and I was like, wait, am I a designer? I like use Figma a lot. I make a lot of designs and it was this like realization that it was like the reason, you know, a lot of like what all the people involved here are talking about today is like everybody's, everybody can be a designer, everybody can create things, make things. And it was true from the very first moment that I used the product.

• 1:41:02John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:02Jordi Hays?

  And just balancing that, you talked about having team members that have that range to be able to talk about strategy and then get in the weeds. And Figma, the product, what makes it so incredible is the range where you get invited to a file. You just land in it. You're there. You can see your buddies there in the same file, all together with your cursors. But then as you understand the product more, there's no, I don't think, I certainly haven't hit the limit of what the product's capable. And I don't know that maybe anyone has. So.

• 1:41:30Dylan Field?

  Yeah, I mean, I think it's, it's, there's this tension always of you got to make things both approachable. And, you know, you also have to cater to the most power user functionality. And for folks that are real power users of the product, how do you make sure that you do both? And I think that that's always a balance we're trying to strike. One thing that helps, though, is pulling out new areas and use cases into their own products. That lets them breathe, but it also makes us that Figma design can be focused on product design. So for example, FigJam was the first one we did it for. And we're like, I had noticed for a long time. Okay, people are doing brainstorming, whiteboarding.

• 1:42:09Jordi Hays?

  I would make the jankiest whiteboard diagrams and like I would pre-design graphics. And then I would like make them look nice. And then you had to like copy and paste them all in this like weird way. And then you guys made FigJam. I was like, okay, cool. That's, I was like making this myself in the product for years.

• 1:42:24Dylan Field?

  Yeah, and we saw that with many people. And then by taking it and bringing it to its own space. The other thing that we thought about was during pandemic times especially, people were treating Figma design like a space to hang out in.

• 1:42:36Jordi Hays?

  This is what I told Chris.

• 1:42:37John Coogan?

  And when people were watching the stream?

• 1:42:38Dylan Field?

  No.

• 1:42:39John Coogan?

  He's told this to six different people. I'm not kidding.

• 1:42:42Jordi Hays?

  I told this to Chris. I, Figma during the pandemic era was like a virtual office where I would open. I'd open my computer after my, my son would go to bed. It'd be late at night. I'd pop it open. Figma would be open. I'd see Brandon in there. I'd see his little cursor. I'd go over and put a comment. Hey, what's up? How you doing? I would mess with him. I'd change the button colors on him. I'd move stuff around, you know? But it was just like, it felt like a virtual office. I ultimately didn't adopt any other virtual office tools. Cause I was like, well, I kind of, I think at one point we even designed like an office in Figma that everybody would jump in. You could move your character around a little bit. It's so funny.

• 1:43:18Dylan Field?

  Was part of the insight for how we differentiated FigJam. You know, I told the team, you know, maybe a month before launch, hey, like our differentiator for FigJam is gonna be fun.

• 1:43:28John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:28Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:29Dylan Field?

  And I remember having a board call and I told, you know, the team this and everyone looks at me like, "Oh, man, you've been sheltered in place way too much, buddy."

• 1:43:36Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. Cause that was, I mean, there was a bunch of companies that were dedicated to whiteboarding and I don't even, I haven't heard about them in a while, but it wasn't like a category you just waltz into, you know?

• 1:43:46Dylan Field?

  Well, and, and to team's credit, I mean, I said this and at first there was skepticism and then people were like, "Okay, let's do it." We did a one day design sprint camp with like, I don't know, 30 ideas or something like that. I think four or five of them shipped, including many of the features that are like the hallmark features of FigJam. And stuff that's really gone very broad and like cursor chat, for example. Where we see that pattern replicated in other surfaces now. And that all came out of one day. So it's just like, when you got this amazing creative team, making it so that you're able to unblock them and just to let them go. And if you just point them in a direction, it can be incredible what you find.

• 1:44:26John Coogan?

  Yeah. We have to let you go. I want to-

• 1:44:28Dylan Field?

  Thank you for having me very much.

• 1:44:30John Coogan?

  I want to talk about everything from quantum computing to Dyson spheres, but that will be for the next one.

• 1:44:34Dylan Field?

  Next time.

• 1:44:35John Coogan?

  We would love for you to hit the gong with this mallet if you would do us the honor.

• 1:44:38Jordi Hays?

  I don't know. We might want to use the, uh, we might want to use the regular mallet. I want to, I want to keep the, the precious gong safe.

• 1:44:45Dylan Field?

  Should we? I guess we'll use this for the really serious stuff.

• 1:44:48Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:50Dylan Field?

  Okay. Oh, there we go.

• 1:44:51Jordi Hays?

  There we go. Iconic moment.

• 1:44:54Dylan Field?

  Happy night, everybody, and thank you for being here. Thank you for having me.

• 1:44:57Jordi Hays?

  So great for you here.

• 1:45:02Jordi Hays?

  You're a legend, guys. Congratulations.

• 1:45:06Jordi Hays?

  Incredible leader.

• 1:45:12John Coogan?

  We are taping, we are live right now.

• 1:45:16Jordi Hays?

  We're still taping, yeah.

• 1:45:17John Coogan?

  We're still live. We'll talk to you more after the stream.

• 1:45:21Jordi Hays?

  You're the man.

• 1:45:25John Coogan?

  And we will bring in our next guest.

• 1:45:27Jordi Hays?

  Who we got?

• 1:45:28John Coogan?

  Who do we have?

• 1:45:29Jordi Hays?

  I think we have Lynn from NICE.

• 1:45:31John Coogan?

  Do we have our next guest available? Perfect, thank you, we will bring them in.

• 1:45:35Jordi Hays?

  Here she comes.

• 1:45:36John Coogan?

  Is the market still open? I don't know.

• 1:45:38Jordi Hays?

  For another 40 minutes or so?

• 1:45:39John Coogan?

  Okay. I'm usually on west coast time.

• 1:45:43Lynn Martin?

  Hey, you're live.

• 1:45:44John Coogan?

  Hi, welcome, nice to meet you.

• 1:45:45Lynn Martin?

  Welcome.

• 1:45:46John Coogan?

  You are live on the air.

• 1:45:47Jordi Hays?

  It's so great to be here.

• 1:45:49John Coogan?

  What a day, what a day.

• 1:45:50Lynn Martin?

  What a day, he did.

• 1:45:52John Coogan?

  I haven't been to the New York, my mom knew that I was coming to the New York Stock Exchange and sent me a picture of me here when I was 10 years old.

• 1:46:00Lynn Martin?

  Oh, get out.

• 1:46:02John Coogan?

  And I got a booklet, a pamphlet, and then I came in college once for kind of an entrepreneur networking event, haven't been back since, but I picked the right day, it's been fantastic.

• 1:46:09Lynn Martin?

  It's been a great day here.

• 1:46:10John Coogan?

  Can you introduce yourself?

• 1:46:11Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, introduce yourself and then there's so much we want to talk about.

• 1:46:14Lynn Martin?

  I'm Lynn Martin, I'm president of the New York Stock Exchange.

• 1:46:17John Coogan?

  There you go.

• 1:46:18Lynn Martin?

  It's a great honor, a privilege. And I'm thrilled to be on this podcast, I listen to you guys.

• 1:46:22John Coogan?

  Thank you, thank you.

• 1:46:23Jordi Hays?

  Incredible.

• 1:46:23John Coogan?

  This is a big moment for us, I mean, we just started a couple of months ago, it's been, this has definitely been on like the vision board of like one day, and now we're here, so thank you so much for hosting us.

• 1:46:32Jordi Hays?

  Totally surreal. First question I have to ask, because it feels like Figma pushed the limits in terms of making this space like feel like the Figma brand, did they give you any trouble around the details of design?

• 1:46:46Lynn Martin?

  Oh gosh, no, I love a good takeover.

• 1:46:48John Coogan?

  Okay, that's great.

• 1:46:49Lynn Martin?

  You know, this space is really to celebrate.

• 1:46:52John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:52Lynn Martin?

  Capital markets and to celebrate our issuers, and today with the full brand takeover by Figma.

• 1:46:59John Coogan?

  Love it.

• 1:46:59Lynn Martin?

  It's been amazing.

• 1:47:00John Coogan?

  That's fantastic. Walk us through what else has gone this year, we've been talking about this dynamic that people were kind of like, is the IPO window open? And then all of a sudden we looked around and it was like, oh, it's wide open, there's been a ton of exciting news, but what have been the standout moments this year in your world?

• 1:47:15Lynn Martin?

  Yeah, I mean, the market very much is now open.

• 1:47:19John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 1:47:19Lynn Martin?

  I don't think anyone is debating that after today.

• 1:47:22John Coogan?

  I agree.

• 1:47:24Lynn Martin?

  You know, we've had a lot of great companies come to market. On the tech side, we've had, just in the last couple of weeks, we had Accelerant. We had Ambic Micro go yesterday. Obviously, Figma today.

• 1:47:34John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 1:47:35Lynn Martin?

  We had Circle.

• 1:47:35John Coogan?

  Circle.

• 1:47:36Jordi Hays?

  Yep.

• 1:47:36Lynn Martin?

  Couple of months ago, that was another great one. Nielsen IQ last week. McGraw-Hill. Hinge Health.

• 1:47:42John Coogan?

  Hinge Health.

• 1:47:43Lynn Martin?

  Mountain. So there's been quite a fair amount of deals.

• 1:47:46Jordi Hays?

  And they've done well.

• 1:47:47Lynn Martin?

  They've done well. They've helped.

• 1:47:49John Coogan?

  Broadly, tech IPOs have done very well this year.

• 1:47:52Lynn Martin?

  Yeah. And when I'm with institutional investors, the thing that I keep hearing from them, these are, you know, the big, long-only funds, is we want more issues to come to market. We want to add to our portfolio. When's the market gonna open? When's the market gonna open?

• 1:48:08John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:09Lynn Martin?

  So there's a lot of excitement, euphoria to actually get these companies out and a lot of demand. Which I think is great.

• 1:48:16John Coogan?

  Yeah. What are the key goals, the key value props, the key like action items that you bring to bear in your day-to-day, in your, in your role?

• 1:48:25Lynn Martin?

  You know, one of my big focuses, probably my primary focus, is to

• 1:48:29Jordi Hays?

  Scoot more.

• 1:48:31Lynn Martin?

  All right, all right.

• 1:48:32Jordi Hays?

  We're getting

• 1:48:33Lynn Martin?

  We're cozy in this, in the studio. Is really to ensure that our capital markets remain the envy of the world. For me, it's about price certainty

• 1:48:43John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 1:48:43Lynn Martin?

  and efficiency of risk management.

• 1:48:45John Coogan?

  How do you increase those?

• 1:48:47Lynn Martin?

  Have to have good technology. Now, I'm a technologist by trade, which most people don't

• 1:48:51Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, I was gonna ask how, what the path is to becoming the president of the New York Stock Exchange.

• 1:48:54Lynn Martin?

  Of course, in this day and age, you start as a coder. That's how I started.

• 1:48:58John Coogan?

  No way. That's amazing.

• 1:48:59Lynn Martin?

  I did.

• 1:49:00Jordi Hays?

  Where, where did you write code first?

• 1:49:02Lynn Martin?

  I was at IBM.

• 1:49:03John Coogan?

  There we go.

• 1:49:03Lynn Martin?

  As part of their global services consulting practice, and my clients were financial institutions.

• 1:49:08John Coogan?

  That makes sense.

• 1:49:09Jordi Hays?

  Incredible.

• 1:49:10John Coogan?

  What, what programming language did you write back then?

• 1:49:12Lynn Martin?

  You know, you're asking me to date myself.

• 1:49:14John Coogan?

  Okay. We don't need to do that.

• 1:49:16Lynn Martin?

  I'm gonna, you know, I'll say C.

• 1:49:18John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 1:49:18Lynn Martin?

  C was the main one that I used. C++ a little bit.

• 1:49:23John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:24Lynn Martin?

  But, you know, I'm not gonna go further back with the other stuff.

• 1:49:26John Coogan?

  Yeah, can you walk us through like a day in the life of a CEO going public? I didn't want to get, pull it out of Dylan, but it's like

• 1:49:35Jordi Hays?

  Well, by the way, Dylan's

• 1:49:36John Coogan?

  There's the bell ringing and then the, then the stock starts trading.

• 1:49:38Jordi Hays?

  Just how calm and collected Dylan was and just so focused on product,

• 1:49:41John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:42Jordi Hays?

  team, culture.

• 1:49:43John Coogan?

  Totally.

• 1:49:43Jordi Hays?

  Vision.

• 1:49:44Lynn Martin?

  But isn't that Dylan?

• 1:49:45John Coogan?

  Yeah, that's Dylan to a T.

• 1:49:46Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, Dylan, through and through. He doesn't have to like put on, he doesn't have to play a character on a day like today. It's just another day.

• 1:49:50John Coogan?

  Totally. But yes, walk me through the day in, a day in the life of a CEO taking a company public at the New York Stock Exchange.

• 1:49:57Lynn Martin?

  Well, you probably have gone through about a 10 day period where you've been on the road and you're probably a little tired.

• 1:50:03John Coogan?

  And does that mean literally on the, when people say roadshow, does that just mean like one big conference room wherever, where everyone comes to you? Or are you literally flying around to different long only funds?

• 1:50:12Lynn Martin?

  It's a mix. Some of the big long onlys, you will go see them in person.

• 1:50:15John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 1:50:15Lynn Martin?

  Um, you know, Boston based.

• 1:50:17John Coogan?

  Yes, like a State Street or something.

• 1:50:19Lynn Martin?

  Yeah, or more the Wellington fidelity.

• 1:50:23John Coogan?

  Wellington, okay, yeah, Wellington.

• 1:50:24Lynn Martin?

  You'll probably go see T. Rowe in person. You know, you're gonna see some of the, the big names, the ones that are generally the top holders of equities. You're gonna probably also go see Vanguard and BlackRock and all those folks.

• 1:50:34John Coogan?

  And some of those are in Manhattan, so it might be a stop here, but you're going around and you really are on the road.

• 1:50:38Lynn Martin?

  You are on the road. You are on the road.

• 1:50:41John Coogan?

  So 10 days of that?

• 1:50:42Lynn Martin?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:42John Coogan?

  Then the big day comes?

• 1:50:43Lynn Martin?

  This is calendar days.

• 1:50:44John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:45Lynn Martin?

  I'm going. Not, not business days. So it's more like five or six.

• 1:50:48John Coogan?

  Week and a half.

• 1:50:49Lynn Martin?

  Yeah, week and a half. Um, and then, by the way, you've already done testing the waters. So you've already met these people in the past. Um, and then the night before, you price.

• 1:50:59John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:51:00Lynn Martin?

  Your deal gets priced.

• 1:51:01John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:51:01Lynn Martin?

  Uh, and then the morning of, you

• 1:51:04John Coogan?

  And how does that, how does that happen? Is that just everyone, uh, like putting in different bids, testing the waters?

• 1:51:09Lynn Martin?

  The investment bankers.

• 1:51:10John Coogan?

  Is there an automated system or is this, is this piece happening more over conference calls and, and discussions? Like, walk me through that piece.

• 1:51:17Lynn Martin?

  It's probably a better question for the banking syndicate that's doing it.

• 1:51:20John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, it depends on who's doing it.

• 1:51:21Lynn Martin?

  I think it's probably a bit of everything at the moment, a bit of technology, also some phone calls.

• 1:51:27John Coogan?

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 1:51:27Lynn Martin?

  Um, they set the price where they think the supply that is coming to the market should price.

• 1:51:33John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:51:33Lynn Martin?

  And then you go to sleep.

• 1:51:35John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:51:35Lynn Martin?

  Then the next morning you wake up and of course you ring the bell.

• 1:51:38John Coogan?

  You ring the bell.

• 1:51:39Lynn Martin?

  At the New York Stock Exchange.

• 1:51:41John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:41Lynn Martin?

  And then you have a couple hour period where you're doing media interviews.

• 1:51:45John Coogan?

  Yes, of course.

• 1:51:46Lynn Martin?

  Talking about your company while your stabilization agents trying to figure out where the stocks.

• 1:51:51John Coogan?

  Will actually trade, yeah, will open.

• 1:51:53Lynn Martin?

  Where it, where should it open?

• 1:51:54John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 1:51:54Lynn Martin?

  Um, there's obviously, you know, a lot of supply on some of these or not, not a lot of supply, a lot of demand.

• 1:52:00John Coogan?

  A lot of demand on, on this one in particular.

• 1:52:02Lynn Martin?

  Yeah, there's a lot of demand.

• 1:52:03John Coogan?

  Because we've been hearing, maybe, you know, we were hearing like rounds of cheers around noon and then one and then it seemed like this particular stock opened at two, kind of around there. And that was all just based on matching the buyers and sellers.

• 1:52:15Jordi Hays?

  What, what, what have you done as president of the exchange to attract the circles and the Hinge Health's and the, and the Figma's, right? These are the blockbuster IPOs of the year. There's obviously other players.

• 1:52:29Lynn Martin?

  Read it last year.

• 1:52:29Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, there's obviously other, there's other plenty, yeah, you know, other companies I won't name that would like to have those opportunities. But what, what is, what is, you know, what makes NYSE so appealing at this moment?

• 1:52:44Lynn Martin?

  Well, I think there's probably a couple of different reasons. But one, our market model, the fact that there are guys and girls down on the floor who are putting capital to work, taking the other side to stabilize a stock once it is open in the market. So our market model is very much differentiator. We're the only exchange in the world that has that, that market model. Two are the services that we offer. We partner with the best in class firms to provide the best in class services. And three is the general community that we have of issuers at NYSE.

• 1:53:16John Coogan?

  That's great, yeah. Talk to me about the Bitcoin ETF. That was kind of an interesting one. Was anything different about that? How did that kind of play out?

• 1:53:25Lynn Martin?

  Yeah, so we were the exchange to bring the first Bitcoin ETF to market in partnership with Grayscale. We actually started working on that in 2016.

• 1:53:35John Coogan?

  What?

• 1:53:36Lynn Martin?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:37John Coogan?

  I thought you were gonna say like 2023, because I remember seeing some ads on CNBC and stuff for like, oh, Grayscale's happening. And then there was the approval and that took some time.

• 1:53:44Jordi Hays?

  Whenever you first got the pitch, was it, did it, did it immediately make sense? Did you think they were crazy at the time?

• 1:53:50Lynn Martin?

  I'm a big believer in the fact that ETFs are one of the great innovations.

• 1:53:55John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 1:53:55Lynn Martin?

  Of, in financial markets.

• 1:53:57John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:58Lynn Martin?

  It's a. Vehicle that allows for liquidity and transparency of assets that have less liquidity.

• 1:54:05John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 1:54:06Lynn Martin?

  And transparency.

• 1:54:07John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:07Lynn Martin?

  So bringing Bitcoin and ETH and some of the other ones that are being talked about into the ETF structure, it really focuses on trans- price transparency, liquidity.

• 1:54:19John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:54:19Lynn Martin?

  And trade certainty.

• 1:54:21John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:54:21Lynn Martin?

  And the whole investor protection.

• 1:54:23John Coogan?

  Sure, sure, sure, sure.

• 1:54:24Lynn Martin?

  So it made a ton of sense.

• 1:54:26John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:26Lynn Martin?

  To us that someone was thinking, yeah, well, if you wrap this in an ETF structure.

• 1:54:31John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:32Lynn Martin?

  You'll actually be able to get institutional investment.

• 1:54:36John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:37Lynn Martin?

  And people to get exposure to the asset class.

• 1:54:40John Coogan?

  So eight, eight years of work, I imagine a lot of that's with the SEC and regulatory. Um, but was there also a piece of, uh, talking to the, the buy side and the investing group to see if there was demand or is that, is that a piece of it? Or was it mostly just chopping wood on the legal side?

• 1:54:57Lynn Martin?

  It was chopping a lot of regulatory wood.

• 1:54:58John Coogan?

  That makes sense.

• 1:54:59Lynn Martin?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:59John Coogan?

  That makes sense.

• 1:55:00Lynn Martin?

  There's a lot of that. Um, Grayscale did a great job.

• 1:55:02John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:02Lynn Martin?

  As did, uh, the other.

• 1:55:04John Coogan?

  Another overnight success, just like Tigma.

• 1:55:06Lynn Martin?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:06John Coogan?

  Easy.

• 1:55:07Lynn Martin?

  Overnight success, what, seven or eight years in the making?

• 1:55:10Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, most overnight success are.

• 1:55:12John Coogan?

  I think Tigma was over a decade, but that's how these things happen.

• 1:55:15Lynn Martin?

  Exactly.

• 1:55:16Jordi Hays?

  What's been your, uh, kind of framework around market volatility this year? How have you talked with clients and issuers around just kind of navigating that broadly?

• 1:55:26Lynn Martin?

  Yeah. Um, as a technology, the big thing that I've been focused on is capacity in the systems to ensure that certainty and efficiency of trading was continuing to persist on those really volatile days. Um, I always like to say you're investing for the long term, though, like, don't watch the market on any one given day. Cause the markets go up and the markets go down.

• 1:55:48John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:55:49Lynn Martin?

  And we've had such a long period of time where the markets just went up.

• 1:55:53John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:53Lynn Martin?

  And I think people had forgotten that at times markets do go down.

• 1:55:57John Coogan?

  Of course.

• 1:55:57Lynn Martin?

  And it's, it's okay.

• 1:55:58John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:59Lynn Martin?

  Um, but if you are patient and thoughtful and disciplined about your investing and you invest for the long term, you'll see the rewards of that investment.

• 1:56:10John Coogan?

  Makes sense. Anything else, Jordi?

• 1:56:13Jordi Hays?

  What's, uh, what, what are you keeping track of for the rest of the year, the next quarter?

• 1:56:19Jordi Hays?

  What's on your mind?

• 1:56:19Lynn Martin?

  Excited to bring some more IPOs to market. We've got some big names that we're working with that we're really excited to to come to market. Yeah, and continuing to just watch the market market moves, ensure that our systems are the...

• 1:56:36John Coogan?

  How big is the organization right now?

• 1:56:38Lynn Martin?

  Um, well, we're part of a bigger organization. The bigger organization's about thirteen thousand. People, we've got about, within our area, we've got about a thousand.

• 1:56:48John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:48Lynn Martin?

  A thousand folks.

• 1:56:49Jordi Hays?

  And that still feels, that still feels, that feels pretty lean.

• 1:56:53John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:53Jordi Hays?

  Given, given the size of some of the, some of the companies that we cover that are maybe a couple of years old.

• 1:56:58John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:56:59Lynn Martin?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:00John Coogan?

  Impressive.

• 1:57:01Lynn Martin?

  Yeah, I mean, AI is a big area we're also watching as well. We've been using AI for more than a decade here.

• 1:57:07John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:08Lynn Martin?

  So, we're very focused on the application of it for specific use cases, but ensuring that there's...

• 1:57:16Jordi Hays?

  And you're talking about internally, not on the issuer's side?

• 1:57:18Lynn Martin?

  Yeah, yeah, internally. Uh, but our area of focus is ensuring data privacy is held. Um, that's the most important to us.

• 1:57:28John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, it seems like we're still in the early innings of actually getting a lot of those products into like enterprise-ready states.

• 1:57:35Lynn Martin?

  Absolutely.

• 1:57:36John Coogan?

  And when, when you're entrusted with the safety and security and liquidity of the, the most dominant American capital market, uh, you can't always be on the most risk-on frontier in terms of technological adoption.

• 1:57:48Lynn Martin?

  Yes, but we've been using AI, for example, to help surveil the market.

• 1:57:53John Coogan?

  Oh, sure, that makes sense.

• 1:57:54Lynn Martin?

  You can, you can point AI at a secure, protected data set.

• 1:58:01John Coogan?

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 1:58:01Lynn Martin?

  And get amazing efficiencies.

• 1:58:03John Coogan?

  That makes sense, yeah.

• 1:58:03Lynn Martin?

  Right? And that then feeds back to the human, who's like, okay, I just got a bunch of information based on this data set, this huge data set that I just pointed my AI at.

• 1:58:12John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:58:13Lynn Martin?

  Um, it makes the human much more efficient.

• 1:58:15John Coogan?

  That makes a ton of sense. Well, thank you so much for stopping by.

• 1:58:18Jordi Hays?

  Well-suited for this era.

• 1:58:19John Coogan?

  Thank you for hosting us.

• 1:58:20Jordi Hays?

  Given your, uh, engineering background.

• 1:58:22John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:23Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, thank you for having us. Hope to be here many more times this year.

• 1:58:26Lynn Martin?

  Come back, come back often.

• 1:58:27Jordi Hays?

  Ideally, ideally, the windows, the windows open enough that we're just here every day.

• 1:58:30Lynn Martin?

  Absolutely.

• 1:58:31John Coogan?

  Yeah, just fully relocated. Is there an apartment up there? I'll hang out.

• 1:58:34Jordi Hays?

  Thank you so much for having us.

• 1:58:35Lynn Martin?

  Thank you. Thanks for having me.

• 1:58:36Jordi Hays?

  Great to finally meet you.

• 1:58:37Lynn Martin?

  Take care. Nice to meet you guys.

• 1:58:38John Coogan?

  Thank you.

• 1:58:39Jordi Hays?

  Cheers.

• 1:58:40John Coogan?

  Well, thank you for watching our stream today. Do we have anyone else? Ben, are we ready to wrap? I think we're good, right? That's a wrap.

• 1:58:48Jordi Hays?

  That's a wrap, folks.

• 1:58:49John Coogan?

  From the New York Stock Exchange. Thank you so much for watching.

• 1:58:52Jordi Hays?

  First of many, hopefully.

• 1:58:53John Coogan?

  We will see you tomorrow.

• 1:58:54Jordi Hays?

  And one more congratulations to the thousands of fig mates.

• 1:58:58John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 1:58:59Jordi Hays?

  That made this a thing.

• 1:59:01John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:01Jordi Hays?

  It's truly incredible and I can't wait to see where the company goes from here.

• 1:59:06John Coogan?

  Me too. Thank you for watching. We'll talk to you soon. Bye.