This is the One Mistake Almost Every New Investor Makes

This week on the Talking Wealth podcast, Filip Tortevski and Pedro Banales reveal the one mistake almost every new investor makes and why it could cost them years of potential wealth. They explain the dangers of chasing hot stock tips, compelling company stories, and small companies promising extraordinary returns. They also reveal the surprising maths behind compounding and why building wealth steadily over time could be far more rewarding than chasing the next stock market winner.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This podcast is brought to you by Wealth Within, a global leader in stock market education. For more information on our courses, head over to wealthwithin.com.au. Please note that the information in this podcast should not be considered personal financial advice. Enjoy.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  Welcome to the Talking Wealth podcast. I'm with Phil and Pedro and today we are going to be discussing the one mistake almost every new investor makes. It is universal. It's so common. It's something that I guess this podcast has spawned from having discussions with people that we chatted with during our recent visit to the Micro Cap Conference, which is basically a conference where the smallest cap stocks on our market go and present their stories on why people should invest with them. And it goes back to that

• 0:59Speaker 01

  whole, what attracts new investors? Oftentimes, they often chase the stock that could change their life before learning how to manage the money they already have. And this mistake is allowing an exciting story and a potential jackpot to replace evidence-based position sizing and exit plans and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, like mentioned, mate, well, welcome aboard, Pedro. Before we dive in, how are you?

• 1:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, good, mate. Good. That was what a conference that was. It was quite interesting. For me, the highlight was obviously talking to the students that made it there. I know that we gave away some tickets and they were able to make it down, which was great. And, you know, on this subject, I was actually quite impressed by the restraint and really the discipline that they showed. They weren't looking to just jump in based on the story. They were very analytical and it was, it actually made me quite proud, you know, to, you know, to call them our students because they're not in that camp that we're going to talk about today.

• 2:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Well, look, there was one or two that I could see their mind ticking on like, I remember there was one gentleman asking, which companies do you like? And I think we both basically said none, just straight away. And he was kind of like, oh, you know, but this company was saying really good things and this company was saying really good things. That's, yeah, that's their job to say really good things. They're not going to stand on that stage and say, by the way, guys, we've been losing money for 10 years. They're going to tell you all the good things they've been doing. That's the job of these conferences. And I could see they were kind of going, oh, that was exciting. That was interesting. But like you said, you know, pretty much everyone I spoke to as well from

• 2:49Speaker 01

  our students was, was in that camp, you know, always had the chart next to them to have a look and make sense of it all. But, but I saw this creep in this conversation and this talk. And I thought, you know what, let's make a podcast about it because this is the majority of people who enter the stock market. And, you know, most, I guess, new investors, they're not looking for a company, because we often were talking about like, well, okay, what really drives share price growth? Is it a story? Or is it a company that can grow, really grow, grow their earnings, grow their wealth, grow their underlying profit, not just their revenue? Because a lot of these companies in the micro cap space,

• 3:32Speaker 01

  even though they've got rising revenue, the costs still are outstripping it. And, you know, or they're, or they're buying this outlandish story that they're going to hit this new technology or whatever niche product they're building. So, you know, when you go back to the mindset of things, it's like, why, why do beginners think they need a spectacular winner to become successful investors? Like, it's almost the home run mentality. I'm getting

• 4:07Speaker 01

  into this market to hit that one spectacular home run and bypass everything else that this vehicle offers, which is consistent, stable, steady growth. And there's no surprise why, you know, so many, this, that number of people who try their hand at the share market or any market and end up blowing up, especially the share market, why that number is so high is, this is, I would say, probably one of the biggest reasons of the area that they decide to go into.

• 4:45Speaker 02

  Look, I can, I can relate a lot to this. You know, early in my, my journey, and I've told this story before, I'll keep it short, but I started the right way. I invested in BHP, I invested in Westpac, I remember. And back then, there was another one, I forgot the name of it, but it was another big one. It's no longer in the market. But they were pretty big, you know, solid stocks, because I always heard about BHP and the banks, you know, buy the banks and blue chip and all that. So I went the right way. And a couple of weeks went past and I wasn't rich yet. So I was like, mate, what's this? You know, I put my money in there, it's not doing anything. Where's the action? I, you know, I should be flying by now. So I took it all out and I started to, to look at speckies. I started

• 5:30Speaker 02

  to look for the next hottest thing. I started to go into forums, you know, get stock tip advice from there. I started going a little bit into crypto without knowing exactly what that was, how it moves. And it was a quick way to find out where the action is, but not necessarily in my favour.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, let's, let's discuss that. I mean, that's a good starting point. How common are the big winners? I went and did a bit of research and got some data on this, which is quite fascinating because, you know, oftentimes people that maybe listen to us or watch our YouTube shows would see we talk about this stuff, but we haven't really got into the nitty gritty of the facts. And that's why I think on these podcasts, we can kind of dive in a bit deeper into this information. And so, huge winners, they exist. I think that's, it happens. The difficulty is identifying them beforehand, holding them through the uncertainty, and allocating enough money for results to matter. Because what often happens in this specy place, people know that they're specy, so they're only going

• 6:34Speaker 01

  to allocate a small amount of capital over a multitude of speckies, right? So, we often hear about the successful ones more often than the unsuccessful attempts. That's normal. That's the gambler's fallacy. Yep, did well today. Doesn't talk about the 15 bets that he lost, you know, three minutes before that. People see a historical winner, you know, and they forecast and say that that's a repeatable method to find future winners. That flows into the mind, well, that happened, happened once. I can go by history, it's going to continue happening a lot. And here's a reference point, or here's a fact. There was this research

• 7:17Speaker 01

  that came out from the, where are we? If we can get the place, which is nice if I can get it, and I'll bring it up right now. It is from the Research and Policy Centre, CFA Institute, for anyone wondering, which covered more than 64,000 global stocks from 1990 to 2020. And it found that the top performing 2.4% of companies accounted for all net global stock market wealth creation above the short-term United States government bill benchmark.

• 7:53Speaker 02

  So the top 2.4% of companies. So that's, yeah, so top meaning the most liquid, the biggest companies.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  Well, the top performing, so the, the top performing 2.4% of companies accounted for all net global stock market wealth creation above the bill. So above the 5%, it was only 2.4% of companies that accounted for that growth. Other companies collectively offset one or another's gains or losses relative to the benchmark.

• 8:25Speaker 02

  Right.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  Okay. Now, if you're thinking and going, oh, I've only got a 2.4% chance of making money, that's not what, what this is.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely not.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  Or that, or that you've got a 97.6% chance of losing money. That's not what this statement is saying. But it shows you how concentrated aggregate wealth creation was during that period. Like, if you think about where the growth in the, in the US stock market has gone, I saw this interesting thing. I wish I saved it. It was like, over 65% of US companies are trading at a 50% or over 30% discount. I think it was something like 25 to 50% discount right now. Yet, the US stock market is at its all time high. So when you figure that in, the US stock market, the only place that there's been growth, real growth, has been

• 9:21Speaker 01

  concentrated in probably six or seven stocks, the AI space, the big ones.

• 9:26Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  And all the little ones would have been wiping out, you know, if 60% of the market's down, that's where the, the rise is. It should be equal. If it's 60 is down 40% up, we shouldn't see this growth. But yet we do, right? So that's to illustrate what, what it's talking about. So.

• 9:43Speaker 02

  I mean, for me, that says that really the, the stocks that move are the ones that the, the institutions or that the investors want to move. It doesn't, they could stay undervalued for many years to come. But it just highlights that the, the thing in favour, in flavour of the month or flavour of the year, AI stocks. So they're going to be the ones that move. And it goes back to the whole story that, yes, the stock can have a nice story, can have nice fundamentals and all. But if the market doesn't want to move it, it's just not going to move it. And, and really, you know, that's why we like to look at charts at the end of the day.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and I mean, you're right, mate, because at the end of the day, you can bypass a whole lot of work and analysis that is, to some degree, useless if the price isn't going in your direction. And unless you're looking at that, it means nothing. So, there is more research. I've got some more research here that I did. Alok Kumar's research found that investors with stronger preferences for shares with lottery-like characteristics experienced greater average underperformance. This supports the concern about jackpot chasing. It doesn't establish a universal success rate for home runs. So when someone tells you they've found a stock that has increased tenfold, should your next question be, what happened to the rest of their portfolio?

• 11:08Speaker 01

  You know, and really, you know, it's, it's important to dive into that.

• 11:14Speaker 01

  That story, um, because the winning stock, that's the one that gets the interview to some degree. The losing portfolio really does. So it's like always, oh, the winner, the winner, this, you know, let's diagnose the winner, but not the loser. And so you've got to ask the question, you said it a bit interestingly before, um, why the story really isn't enough. Um, so the reality is a compelling story can explain the opportunity, but it can't establish, like you said, whether buyers are going to be buying today.

• 11:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  It can't. Only price action can do that. And, um, you know, uh, there's, there's so much of the story that's different that people ask as well. It's not like, what's the overriding story? If it's something like, for example, you know, if it's a technology, can the technology work? Can the company make money from it? Can the shareholders earn an attractive return at that valuation? There's like all this stuff that goes into whether it, and I hate using this word, but should go up or down because nothing should do anything unless people do it.

• 12:18Speaker 02

  Um, yeah.

• 12:19Speaker 01

  You know, and, uh, there, there is, uh, a reference, another one that I want to dive into if I can. It's the United States Securities Regulator identifies limited operating histories, undeveloped products and low trading volumes among the risks associated with very small listed companies. Low trading volume can also make selling difficult. These observation concerns micro cap shares rather than every smaller company. So this is what we were talking about before, about the fact that even if you, you know, want to be someone who writes these stories, um, if you want to play in this end of the market, just know what you're dealing with and, and low trading volume is one of the biggest challenges for this area of the market.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  Like. Hundred percent.

• 13:06Speaker 01

  You, you may buy and it may go up hundreds of percent, but when you look at the volume and the liquidity, the next seller is all the way back at your buy price.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  Um, for sure.

• 13:15Speaker 01

  And you're, and you're sitting there going, well, what was the point of this?

• 13:20Speaker 02

  For sure. And I mean, you want a market to sell into, uh, and, and an easy way to, to think about it is, you know, if you were a business and would you rather have a hundred buyers or only 10 buyers for your product, right? You're just, you're, you're selling fruit. Would you rather have, uh, you know, a big market that you're selling into? Or would you rather sell into a small market? Well, you know, that, that's liquidity in, in, in a nutshell. We want to be able to transact at the price that we want. If there's not enough sellers or not enough buyers, one could be selling at 50 cents, the other one could be selling at 80 cents. That would be a huge spread. So if you're the ones trying to sell it at 80, but there's only a buyer at 50,

• 14:02Speaker 02

  you're gonna have to, if you need to get, get out, you're gonna have to take a huge pay cut.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, you're gonna, you're gonna get hurt. And I mean, uh, yeah, just, I, I want to get into now the, um,

• 14:17Speaker 01

  you know, that, that part of the, some of the discussions I was having yesterday about, you know, people listening to the reports or listening to the presentations and being somewhat impressed or wowed by the presentation. Um, how do you look at this? Like, uh, I guess, um, someone who, who, who could use the information that's being presented, because one thing you got to think, regardless of how they're presenting it, it still is information. Um, and oftentimes you can gauge certain things and you're going to have to, if you're going to be someone who wants to trade these low cap, small cap stocks and really dive into the company, try to understand what's happening, try to understand where it's going and buy the story.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  I mean, look, anything's, we're not, we're not trying to knock it, but if you want to do it, um, I think there's a way you've got to look at it. And, you know, I, I had a gentleman that, that I know quite well, that this is his forte, micro caps. He believes that because he's, um, you know, he goes out to the mines, he looks at how much gold there is, he does all this analysis that, you know, speaks to the CEO, um, they do whatever they can to get an insight and an understanding of the story and the company. And, um, but it was interesting when we spoke, you know, a, a while back, he, he said something like, it's important when you see a report from these micro caps, how you read it, you don't sit there and get wowed and schmooded and go, oh yeah, these guys told me some really nice things.

• 15:47Speaker 01

  You've got to read the report like an owner, not a customer.

• 15:50Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  That's what he said to me. And so think about it like this, um, management presentations communicate management's interpretation of the business. Treat that interpretation as something to test. Avoid claiming companies are designed to hide problems. Australian listed companies must disclose market sensitive information subject to specific conditions. Their obligation covers, you know, adverse information as well, favorable information. That said, I still think that you should be skeptical because they don't tell you everything if they don't have to. Um, if they can hide it through some quick or fancy.

• 16:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, gloss over words, uh, you know, little bit of an accounting sleight of hand as, as they call it. Uh, you know, different classifications of, of, of expenses and things. Um, yeah, all of that can go into it. And it actually, one comes to mind, there was one presentation where, and we were looking at the, at the share price, the share price had been bottoming for quite some time. Actually, the stock had been falling, but it, it actually peaked up and they were doing a share buyback. Um, and it was a company that was acquiring other companies a, along the way, they had a timeline of different companies that they were acquiring and they wanted to acquire a higher percentage of those companies.

• 17:14Speaker 02

  And they said that the share buybacks are going to continue till the end of the year, uh, because they thought the share price was cheap. Now I thought, well, that's interesting. This is a company that is, uh, it's basically a holding company. They're, they're purchasing other companies, but they're using those funds now to buy their share back. Uh, is this just trying to prop up their, their share price? Um, stop it from falling because at the end of the day, what does it benefit the business? It's a secondary market. That money isn't flowing back into their company. It's just buying shares in the secondary market and then taking them off the market. Of course, the, the, the amount of shares is lower. It, it offers a, um,

• 17:57Speaker 02

  a benefit to the existing shareholders because now there's less shares, there's less, you're, you're, you're less diluted. Um, but that's purely just to appease the shareholders. Um, I saw no benefit of, you know, a company that's using that money wisely. So, um, I think it's things like that that should be questioned.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. And I mean, you, you should question your jobs to connect the headline with the financial statements and the assumptions and the risk.

• 18:25Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  Um, ask what a milestone actually delivers, publicity, revenue, you know, cash flows. You need to question all of it when, when it's being presented. So I'll give you some examples, um, of things, you know, people could do when they are looking at these reports or these, going to these conferences and listening to these, uh, you know, characters speak. So let's say a presenter says revenue increased by 40%. The question you got to ask as an investor is, did the cost rise faster? Did operating cash flow improve? Let's say the, the presenter says, we signed a major partnership. What you should be asking or thinking is, is there committed revenue or an agreement to explore possibilities?

• 19:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  If the presenter says, our addressable market is worth billions.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  What an investor should investigate is what share can this business realistically capture at what margin?

• 19:22Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  If they, if they say something like, we have 12 million in cash. You should be asking, is it quarterly operating cash outflow? Uh, sorry, if quarterly operating cash outflow is 4 million, that's roughly three quarters of funding at the same rate before other cash movements. So, you know, how much of, do you really have?

• 19:46Speaker 02

  Um, yeah.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  And if they say something like, we raised funding to accelerate growth. You should be asking, how many new shares were issued and what return might the funding generate?

• 19:58Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 19:59Speaker 01

  Cause like your story there, if it's just purely to prop up a share price with no long-term benefit or growth opportunity from that, huh, that's not great.

• 20:10Speaker 02

  Exactly. And, and to add that, I actually, um, I, I heard a very good question. And I think that this is a, a, another question that investors should be asking. Um, it was, uh, one of the gentlemen that was in the, in the crowd, you know, the end, they do the, the Q and A. Um, and the presenter just finished saying that we had a record year, we made this much profit, blah, blah, blah. Uh, uh, and it's not the one that you're thinking about with the freelancer, how, why is your share price falling for, for the last 12 years?

• 20:38Speaker 01

  That was. Well, no, he said, he said, oh, oh, yeah, um, yeah, good mate. You, you, you've compared yourself to Amazon. And this was freelancer. You, you, you know, you've told me all these good things, you're expanding. When are you going to actually make a profit?

• 20:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. That was an absolute ripper question. I mean, that's the type of questions that they should be asking. Um, there was another gentleman that, that, you know, um, took, uh, actually I was, I was interested in his question. He was like, um, okay, you've, you've had this much profit or revenue this year, how much of that, uh, is, uh, gaining new customers and how much of that is recurring revenue? And I thought that was an excellent question to have because it's not guaranteed that they're going to have that same profit the next year. So how, how much of that is, uh, you know, subscription costs or just that recurring revenue? Uh, so then you can project out into the future.

• 21:33Speaker 01

  Amazing. Yeah. Amazing. And they're the things that that's, that's really in this space, how to, how to break it all down, not just sit there. Because the reality is the presenter tells you what management wants you to notice.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  Your analysis should establish, you know, what matters to the return of the company. Um, and I think before we move on, cause we, we're almost, um, at the end of this one, we'll do a nice and short one. But I just wanted to make a comparison of two people, two investors. If you're someone who's new and or someone playing in this space, I just want to give you food for thought, uh, and a comparison on what could be and what, or maybe what, uh, when they say the grass is green on, on the other side, well, let's have a look at what the, how green that grass is on the other side. So, um, let's just say we're using $10,000 starting capital, no further contributions or reinvested returns. This is all hypothetical, okay? Before tax, fees, inflation, all that stuff. Um, 15% compounded annually, it's ambitious.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  It's above the, if you just left your money at the nine percent, but we're assuming that you have some knowledge like, you know, a lot of our students do fifteen percent is, um, you know, you go look at the testimonials, you'll see numbers well, well past that. But anyway, we're, we'll, we'll play it low ballpark. Um, now, let's assume compound annually return after fifteen years and after twenty years. So at five percent compounded, from ten thousand, uh, starting, you get twenty grand, at nine percent, you get thirty six. Um, and at fifteen percent, you get eighty one grand after fifteen years. After twenty years, at fifteen percent, you get a hundred and sixty three grand. Now,

• 23:15Speaker 01

  we're going to introduce two investors, Alex and Sam. Alex earns five percent annually for fourteen years while waiting for the big opportunity. At least we're being nice to him, he's going to earn something, whereas it's probably zero. But anyway, we'll be nice to the, because really you're not earning anything sitting in these, um, um, but anyway.

• 23:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, they usually don't pay dividends either, so, yeah.

• 23:41Speaker 01

  Correct, yeah. So Sam compounds at fifteen percent annually for fifteen years. In year fifteen, Alex finds a spectacular winner. He hits, he gets his, uh, massive winner. Now, Alex's fifteen year result.

• 23:59Speaker 01

  Alex's entire portfolio doubles.

• 24:03Speaker 01

  In, okay, one holding representing ten percent of the portfolio increases tenfold. Everything else is flat that year, we're assuming that.

• 24:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:13Speaker 01

  So the entire portfolio increases if the entire portfolio doubles is thirty nine thousand. If one holding that's representing ten percent of that portfolio, um,

• 24:27Speaker 01

  you know, as mentioned, increases tenfold and everything else is flat, he gets thirty seven. If the entire portfolio increases tenfold, which means you're going to have to have either one thousand winner or a few hundred percent winners. If he's risking ten percent, or if he's risking twenty percent, he's going to need two hundred percent winners and like ten of them in a row.

• 24:47Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 24:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, anyway, um, I mean, we're, we're being nice here, okay? We're, we're, we're saying, what if he does do it? Ten out of ten.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  He manages, yeah, he's got a good lucky year.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  With, yes. Um, his portfolio after fifteen years will be a hundred and ninety seven thousand. Sam, on the other hand, will be at year fifteen, eighty one, eighty one, eighty one, right? Leading up in all those years. So now,

• 25:18Speaker 01

  even doubling the entire portfolio in fifteen years, leaves Alex behind Sam.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Okay?

• 25:28Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  Um, are you, are you with me?

• 25:30Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 25:31Speaker 01

  A, a tenfold stock return is different from a tenfold portfolio return.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 25:36Speaker 01

  Position size determines the effect. So to catch Sam, Alex's entire portfolio must rise approximately three hundred and eleven percent in year fifteen, after those first fourteen years.

• 25:51Speaker 01

  That's the entire portfolio.

• 25:54Speaker 01

  A massive home run, um, it can win, but this example here shows that how much harder it is to, um,

• 26:08Speaker 01

  to get anywhere near somebody with consistency. And so, um,

• 26:15Speaker 01

  you got to ask, and fifteen years is a long time too, yeah?

• 26:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  Fifteen years are nothing.

• 26:21Speaker 02

  Patients are wear thin, very thin, and most people give up in the next, you know, in the first couple of years if, if, if you're not getting what you want.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  Like, there were gentlemen at that, at that conference that had been in companies for ten years. I mean, that guy that was asking the question, I think he said, I've been with him for ten years.

• 26:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:38Speaker 01

  Like, it's a long time.

• 26:41Speaker 02

  Well, it's, it's, it's going down on top of that.

• 26:43Speaker 01

  You're not, you're not making money or losing money.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, and inflation's eroding at your, your, your money as well, you know, it's, you got to think while your money's in this stock, we're at, what, what are we at the moment? Four point something, uh, three percent inflation. Uh, slowly, slowly, your money's getting worth less. So you, you need to get the, the percentage, the return uh, to account for that and better than what you would have got if you put it in a term deposit or, or in a savings account, which at the moment is like five point two percent.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, and like, you got to think also the losses, because we're not talking about the losses on the home run strategy. So i- imagine this, consider you got ten equally sized investments of a thousand each. One doubles, producing a thousand profit, the other nine each lose twenty percent, right? Producing combined losses of eighteen hundred. The investor, um, you know, can say that they doubled their money on one stock while the portfolio falls eight percent.

• 27:45Speaker 01

  So, as you know, a fifty percent loss requires a hundred percent gain to recover.

• 27:49Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  Eighty percent, an eighty percent loss requires a four hundred percent gain to recover.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  It is not out of the ordinary when you trade stocks at that end of the market to be down fifty percent or eighty percent in the blink of an eye.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  Yep, yep. We've, we've, we've had people come to us, unfortunately, they show us their portfolios and some stocks are down eighty percent. Uh, and you feel for them, you know, it, it's hard to give advice, um, I mean, we can't give advice on, on personal stuff like that, but, um, sometimes you have to just keep on holding them, sometimes you just have to cut the loss and try to find some better ones.

• 28:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, or start, start looking at, you know, other, other areas of the market, because there are solutions and alternatives, um, that are just waiting, waiting for you to explore them. So, uh, let's leave it on that. I thought it was an interesting take to have a look at this, uh, stuff and, and really, um, if you're someone who's chasing that home run, hopefully this has, you know, opened you, you up a little bit to go, well, am I really doing something that's, that's in my favor in the market? Am I really giving myself the best shot? And if, if you love this style and you, and you say, I, I, I really enjoy finding the story and, and and that's me, mate, more, more power to you. You, you found your niche, you found what you want to do.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  Go for it. Absolutely. I'm, I'm not trying to knock this at all.

• 29:15Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  But when you look at all the parts and opportunities and all the risks involved and, and, and everything that comes with it, if you aren't aware and you're new and you think this is the spot,

• 29:26Speaker 01

  right, maybe just go up a few, a few numbers in the market cap, uh, list, maybe start with the top fifty of the top hundred and see what you can see there, because, boy, it's going to make your life a lot easier.

• 29:38Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, and, and I would just leave everybody with, with one final question. This is something that I asked of, of some of the students there. So, would you prefer to put one thousand dollars in a specky? Or one thousand dollars in a liquid stock like a BHP, but leveraged ten times? Uh, and, you know, really have a think about that question, because, uh, it, it's, um, it does have some, some things a- around it, and it's a difficult question to answer unless you know what you're doing. So, um, again, one thousand dollars in the speckies or one thousand dollars leveraged in a nice liquid market, just think about that for a second. So, that would be my final, uh, question.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  Awesome. Well, mate, thank you very much for joining on this one.

• 30:22Speaker 02

  Pleasure. It was a good one.

• 30:24Speaker 01

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• 30:43Speaker 00

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