Pod Insights Talk Easy with Sam Fragoso Actor Monica Barbaro (‘A Complete Unknown’) Takes the Stage as Joan Baez About this episode In celebration of Oscar Sunday, our conversation with actor Monica Barbaro. Her portrayal of Joan Baez in the Bob Dylan biopic, A Complete Unknown https://www.searchlightpictures.com/a-complete-unknown, earned her an Academy Award nomination for Best Supporting Actress.
At the top, we discuss how director James Mangold drew inspiration from Miloš Forman’s Amadeus (7:00), the vocal lessons Monica received in preparation for the role of Baez (10:15), and her affecting rendition of House of the Rising Sun (16:00). Then, we dive into Monica’s California upbringing (18:00), her pivot from dancing to professional acting (24:00), and the winding journey that led her to A Complete Unknown (29:00).
On the back-half, we talk about her breakout role in Top Gun: Maverick (38:00), her evolving relationship to perfectionism (39:30), the deep, autobiographical research she did to portray Joan Baez (42:00), and what she hopes for in the years to come (54:15).
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Transcript 10,147 words · 6 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:02 Speaker 00 Lemonada.
0:21 Sam Fragoso? This is Talk Easy. I'm Sam Fragoso. Welcome to the show.
0:38 Sam Fragoso? Today, Oscar-nominated actor Monica Barbaro. She plays musician Joan Baez in the newest Bob Dylan biopic, A Complete Unknown. The film tracks Dylan, played by Timothy Chalamet, through the pivotal years of 1961 to 1965, in which the Minnesota-born musician transitions from folk hero to rock star. It's during that interlude that Dylan meets Baez in the basement of a Greenwich Village cafe, at once impressed and a little bit envious of how her voice commands the room. It's in a rendition of "House of the Rising Sun," which you'll hear a little bit of today, that Barbaro captured my attention, too.
1:19 Sam Fragoso? A Complete Unknown focuses primarily on Dylan's tumultuous relationship to, well, pretty much everything and everyone. But it's Barbaro's portrayal as Baez, first as a mentor to Dylan, then as a lover, that has really stayed with me. It seems to have stayed with the Academy as well. Barbaro was nominated earlier this year for Best Supporting Actress, alongside talents like Isabella Rossellini for "Conclave" and Ariana Grande for "Wicked." And so, in celebration of Oscar Sunday, I invited Monica on to talk about how she embodied Baez, the vocal lessons required, the deep autobiographical research she did to make the performance feel true and lived in, and a whole lot more.
2:04 Sam Fragoso? Before we get into it, I just wanted to take a moment here at the top to honor my late grandmother, Jan Myers. She passed away this week at the age of 85. The only thing that rivaled her love for her grandkids was her love for film and theater. For decades, she directed and acted in plays as part of the Alleghen Community Players in Michigan. My mom still talks about her performance as Mother Superior in The Sound of Music. Even my dad called me this week to talk about this production she mounted of Oklahoma. I never got to see any of this. By the time I was born, she was mostly working as a social worker and substitute teacher. But what I did get to see, what I got to
2:49 Sam Fragoso? experience, was a woman whose love for the arts was completely infectious. For years, every Oscar weekend, we'd have these long calls about the nominees, what she liked, what I liked, comparing ballots, arguing over what will win versus what should win. She never got to see a complete unknown, but I could imagine her in the movie theater, being transported back to that period of American life, an era in which both her and Joan were just young 20-somethings, trying to make their voices heard in a world determined to tune them out. I can imagine her calling me this weekend to talk about the Oscars,
3:34 Sam Fragoso? which of course was just a pretense, an excuse to connect and revel in this shared passion of ours, a passion she cultivated in me throughout childhood and without which I would not be hosting this show today. And so with that, much love to her on this Oscar Sunday. And here is Monica Barbaro.
4:16 Sam Fragoso? Monica Barbaro, thank you for being here.
4:18 Speaker 00 Thank you for having me.
4:20 Sam Fragoso? How are you feeling?
4:20 Speaker 00 So good.
4:24 Sam Fragoso? It's weird because you are a good actor, but that was so not convincing.
4:27 Speaker 00 I didn't feel the need to convince you.
4:30 Sam Fragoso? You don't have to.
4:30 Speaker 00 I actually started with your producer outside. I was complaining about something in the elevator, my poor team following me around today. I was like, oh, my God, look at this text of all these things I need to respond to. And I can't believe they want to have my reps want to have a phone call after this entire day. And then we like pop out of the elevator, walk down the hallway. Your producer's like, hi, I'm like, hi, hello. And that fractured so quickly. It just, I completely, I tried for about five minutes and then I was like, no, I am broken.
4:59 Sam Fragoso? And then you met me.
5:00 Speaker 00 I met you.
5:01 Sam Fragoso? Fellow broken person.
5:03 Speaker 00 Let's undo our top buttons and relax.
5:07 Sam Fragoso? Right. And for context, for the listeners, she does literally mean unbutton the top button, which we both did because my pants are too tight.
5:17 Speaker 00 That's how.
5:18 Sam Fragoso? It was kind of a metaphor for what this conversation is going to be.
5:21 Speaker 00 Yeah. I hope there's someone at work listening to this podcast with a top button undone and feeling seen, or they're not undone and they're like, you know what, I can.
5:32 Sam Fragoso? That's a good idea. Sam and Monica came up with it. I want to start with the movie. You play the legendary Joan Baez, opposite Timothy Chalamet as Bob Dylan. The film begins in 1961 Greenwich Village, where at that time she was kind of the queen of folk music and Dylan is just this young 19 year old from Minnesota. But the film is not like your conventional biopic, like in part because of director James Mangold, who told you upon first meeting him that the main inspiration for the movie was Amadeus. How did that movie, which is about Mozart, shape your understanding of how this story was going to be told, how you were going to move through the world?
6:17 Speaker 00 Well, I watched it right after Jim told me that. I rewatched it right after he told me that. In that movie Mozart doesn't stand there and like monologue about why he is the way he is. He doesn't explain himself. What you get is a, an understanding of this person based on the reflections of everyone around him, the impressions he's left on the people around him. And that was similar to the structure of this. So I was just excited to get to be one of those people who, who Bob, you know, made an impression on. Obviously, like you said, Joan stood in her own right. She, she was this independent performer person. And that was really important to Jim to maintain. And he, he would
7:02 Speaker 00 kind of say, you know, she's sort of kind of the only one who doesn't really get wrapped up in his orbit in a way that like, you know, robs her of her autonomy. Um, one way he showed that was always having her with her guitar. If you watch a lot of old footage, she doesn't have her guitar when she duets with Bob, especially during that time. Um, and I, you know, being sort of like a slave to my own research and, and just trying to be as authentic as possible. I'd be like, but she didn't have a guitar here. Also, it's really hard to share a single mic with two guitars.
7:37 Sam Fragoso? Right.
7:38 Speaker 00 But yeah, so she, she wouldn't have her guitar in a lot of those situations. And Bob was like, I love this image. And he would like put his arm, like hands out to show me in the frame essentially with my guitar. And I'd be like, okay. And he's totally right. I think it's one of those symbols of her autonomy in this movie amongst, you know, many others and, and the way she is at the end. And, you know, it's definitely not to say that she's not affected by him. Of course she is, but he just really maintained her, her strength.
8:08 Sam Fragoso? I like that the entry point into understanding Dylan is by how he affects the people around him.
8:15 Speaker 00 Yeah.
8:15 Sam Fragoso? None more so than. Your character in a way, who at the time, by 1962, she's on the cover of Time Magazine, introducing folk music to a new, younger audience. Like, the problem with most biopics is that it's really hard to play a great artist whose work you already know and love. Because in turn, you have to, as a performer, also be great to approximate their greatness.
8:42 Speaker 00 It's a great way of putting it, yeah.
8:44 Sam Fragoso? Like, you know when movies about comedians?
8:46 Speaker 00 Oh, God.
8:47 Sam Fragoso? And then you're like, the problem is, it's not funny.
8:50 Speaker 00 Oh, God.
8:51 Sam Fragoso? So then, no one's funny, but it's about a funny person who's being unfunny in front of you. But then people are telling you, no, this is a generational comic.
8:59 Speaker 00 Yes.
8:59 Sam Fragoso? So when it comes to Joan, you have to figure out her voice and her musical talents. You had never sung or played guitar in any serious way before this movie. Tell me, like, what did a typical day with Eric Vitro look like?
9:17 Speaker 00 I mean, the main things with him that we worked on were expanding my range. I didn't sing very high, didn't have experience doing that.
9:28 Sam Fragoso? He's a vocal coach who helps a lot of people.
9:30 Speaker 00 He's a vocal coach. Ariana Grande worked with him for Wicked. She works with him on, I think, all her albums. And he's her guy. Sabrina Carpenter, a lot of like, there are a lot of pop musicians who work with him. A lot of actors work with him. Austin Butler did Elvis with him. Renee Zellweger, Judy, like, he's on another level. He also, like, it's fun, because like, he's a, I don't know, I should say, admit this. He's a bit of a gossip. Well, everyone who's trained with him now knows this. He can be a gossip, and so it's also, you also have a good time with him, I will say.
10:03 Sam Fragoso? So in between gossiping?
10:04 Speaker 00 In between gossiping.
10:05 Sam Fragoso? What are some of the warmups he would make you do? Can we do them together?
10:09 Speaker 00 I'm way too shy to do the warmups in here. Oh, my God, no way.
10:12 Sam Fragoso? Come on, let's give it a go. It'll wake you up, it'll wake me up.
10:16 Speaker 00 No. Well, I started this, by the way, coming into this room and asking if I could jump out the window. Now you're asking me to, now I'm gonna jump out the window now.
10:27 Sam Fragoso? So you're saying you would rather jump out a window that can't open than do a vocal warmup?
10:32 Speaker 00 I'm just be ramming myself into this unopenable window.
10:35 Sam Fragoso? By the way, that will be the headline that comes out of this podcast. Oscar-nominated actor Monica Barbaro.
10:42 Speaker 00 He tries so hard. To jump out a window.
10:46 Sam Fragoso? Minutes within starting the Talk Easy podcast declares, "I'm jumping out a window."
10:52 Speaker 00 Hey, man, run with it. I think it's good.
10:55 Sam Fragoso? Yeah, I think it's good for me because no one else will come on the show after that.
10:57 Speaker 00 I'll never get nominated again.
10:59 Sam Fragoso? You won't ever be here again.
11:02 Speaker 00 True. And I probably won't get nominated anyway on the probability of all of any of this.
11:07 Sam Fragoso? Oh, please. I love that it's her first priority is death, maybe, but most importantly, I won't get nominated.
11:13 Speaker 00 Yeah, oh, maybe I shouldn't do that because it might ruin my chance for nominations. And what's a vacation? Look, I woke up today and my publicist said, "Just be yourself," and he was mistaken. This is the most unhinged interview I have done this entire time.
11:29 Sam Fragoso? It's gonna be the most interesting.
11:30 Speaker 00 Yeah.
11:30 Sam Fragoso? So you don't want to do any of the vocal warmups?
11:32 Speaker 00 Oh, my God, I don't think I can do the vocal warmups. You should get Ariana Grande in here and do the vocal warmups. They're inherently embarrassing. Here's the thing about vocal warmups. I felt so shy about doing them. I even moved into a house during the making of this movie and immediately was shy about, I had been shy about apartment neighbors listening to me. And then when I moved, I was like, this should solve everything. Immediately was like, oh, no, can you hear me through these walls? Terrified, especially with vocal warmups because they're inherently obnoxious sounding. You don't have to be super loud with them, but they're just, they just sound unhinged. And I feel very self-conscious all the time anyway.
12:13 Sam Fragoso? You do?
12:13 Speaker 00 Yeah. Yeah. I really don't seem like it right now. Oh, my God. You're reading me at my least self-conscious. I'm just saying everything on my mind. And this is probably why I need to be self-conscious. No, yeah, I just, I don't, I don't like showing anyone any part of my process. I'm happy to kind of talk about it, but I feel sort of like protective of it. Sometimes it can be, I don't know, actors, like, we do weird.
12:40 Sam Fragoso? Oh, it's embarrassing.
12:41 Speaker 00 Stuff. Well, and ultimately, you have to, like, just exist in this space without shame. But for some reason, a lot of what you do to get there, just for me, feels like it can come off as self-indulgent or performative. And like, the intention is so the opposite. And yet you gotta go to these weird places. And for me, vocal warmups are kind of that thing. Like, part of my challenge in learning guitar was feeling so self-conscious about how bad I was for so long. It was so much easier to practice when, A, I liked the sound of it. And B, like, I felt like people around me wouldn't be just like cringing at the sound of me playing. And my dream is to have a room that, like, in my house or separate from my house, somewhere
13:26 Speaker 00 that is completely soundproof. I think that would be the freest space I could possibly have to experiment and play and not be afraid of making mistakes.
13:39 Sam Fragoso? I do sense that you have a perfectionist streak.
13:43 Speaker 00 Oh, God.
13:44 Sam Fragoso? As someone who similarly suffers from this sickness, and it is a sickness.
13:49 Speaker 00 It is an illness, for sure.
13:51 Sam Fragoso? I want to hold this quote from an interview Joan Bia said in The New Yorker a couple of years ago.
13:56 Speaker 00 Thank you for finally pulling, I think I know what you're gonna say, go ahead.
13:59 Sam Fragoso? She was talking about her creative process, specifically with paintings. And she said, "With the paintings, a lot of artist friends will say, loosen up. If I really don't like what's happening, I drop the drawing in the swimming pool. If I've gotten too precise about it, the imperfection brings it to life." One of my friends said, "Tell me just one thing that will last. Make as many mistakes as you can. When you're trying to make it perfect, trying to make it exactly what you want it to be, then it's time to drop it into the pool."
14:29 Speaker 00 I have been misquoting that for months and saying, I should really find the quote and read it.
14:35 Sam Fragoso? You were waiting to talk to me.
14:36 Speaker 00 Thank you, I was just waiting for you. What was the line, the precise?
14:41 Sam Fragoso? "If I've gotten too precise about it, the imperfection brings it to life."
14:45 Speaker 00 I need that tattooed to the insides of my eyelids.
14:51 Sam Fragoso? So did you have experiences at some point of dropping the performance in the pool? Where you're like, this is, I'm doing too much in one direction, or I'm trying to do too much, and it's actually not feeling human and real and imperfect, like she's saying?
15:09 Speaker 00 Yeah, I felt like that often. And what I would lean on in those moments, a couple of people who who helped me with this were Eric Vitro and Nick Baxter, who was our music producer. He would encourage me to get away from trying to exact her sound and instead tell the story of the song and like, keep remembering, just to tell the story with the song, really. We would do takes where it was like all technical and all vibrato and, you know, I would play with dynamics. But like, as soon as I would just take all my brain imagination space and and instead envision
15:54 Speaker 00 what I'm saying in the song. As soon as I did that, I was so dialed into some imagined experience that I would finish the recording and he'd be like, that was it. And the nice thing about that is that I also got to take a trip through some other storyline and not really cloud my vision with, you know, corrections and critiques that just like happen constantly when you're a when you're a perfectionist. I think it's in part like ballet. I mean, my ballet background, like you do things and then you get corrections as you're doing them constantly. And that's just like, that's how that brain functions. And it's chicken or the egg. I mean, I think I was drawn to it for a reason, but I think
16:38 Speaker 00 it also really reinforced that kind of thinking for me. And so it takes a lot to break apart from that. And I can tell when I'm acting and watching myself and I can tell when I'm singing and listening to myself. And like, it just turns out when you're when you're trying to be too precise.
16:56 Sam Fragoso? Put it at me when you said that.
16:57 Speaker 00 Well, your quote, you found it. You're when you I'm pointing. You're when you're trying to be too precise. I was like, finish my sentence. What is their quote?
17:08 Speaker 00 What is it? I've already forgotten. My my short term memory has completely.
17:14 Sam Fragoso? I'm gonna give you, I'll give it to you when we leave.
17:16 Speaker 00 Oh, my God. Thank you. Cut it out. Glue it to my.
17:20 Sam Fragoso? If I'm not.
17:24 Sam Fragoso? Geez, two unwell people here. If I've gotten too precise about it, the imperfection brings it to life.
17:30 Speaker 00 That, yeah, yeah. And I think the imperfection, I don't know. I mean, I think, I think imperfection is so attractive. I know my favorite musicians are so imperfect. And, or my favorite parts of what they do are, are the parts where they, you know, fracture.
17:48 Sam Fragoso? Well, why don't we take a listen to what that sounded like in the end? What you arrived at when you do make this movie? This is Monica Barbour as Joan Baez, singing "House of the Rising Sun" in the movie A Complete Unknown.
18:13 Speaker 02 If I had listened to what my mother said, I'd have been at home today. But I was young and foolish. Oh, God, let a rambler lead me astray.
18:49 Speaker 02 Go tell my baby sister, don't do what I have done.
19:06 Speaker 02 But shun that house in new leaves. They call the rising sun.
19:25 Sam Fragoso? But coming back, you mentioned ballet, which is where you started performing. You grew up in Marin County, dancing at the Marin Ballet in San Rafael. Do you think that experience made you uniquely suited, in terms of structure and discipline, to throw yourself into this part?
19:44 Speaker 00 Yeah, well, the thing ballet gave me is a certain level of snobbery, where I think a lot of dancers feel this way. You can tell immediately when someone's portraying a dancer who isn't one.
19:56 Sam Fragoso? So this is snobbery, right here?
19:59 Speaker 00 This is, so this is your, this is what comes out of snobbery and perfectionism? This train wreck? But in particular about things like training thing, where it's like you're portraying someone who has done something for their whole life, and that looks different than a person who's been doing it for five months. So as an actor, the job is to make it look in five months like you've been doing this your whole life or since you were 14. And that takes just a complete overhaul of your time and your life, and that's what it gave me in terms of discipline.
20:39 Sam Fragoso? And your life was dominated by ballet, growing up?
20:43 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah.
20:43 Sam Fragoso? So you're like, you grow up in Mill Valley. Both your parents loved the arts. Your father was a neurosurgeon who harbored dreams of being a pianist. Your mother was a nurse who would take you and your two older siblings to the ballet, to the opera, to the symphony.
20:59 Speaker 00 Yeah, she wasn't a nurse by the time I was. She stopped when she had my sister, my oldest sister.
21:05 Sam Fragoso? Formerly a nurse.
21:06 Speaker 00 Yeah.
21:07 Sam Fragoso? Basically, she would expose you to all kinds of art, except for television, which I read was not permitted in your house.
21:14 Speaker 00 No. Well, it wasn't, and my stepmom, by the way, was in the San Francisco Opera when she and my dad started dating, and then she stopped.
21:23 Sam Fragoso? Your parents split up at four?
21:25 Speaker 00 Yes. Yeah.
21:26 Sam Fragoso? He remarries at eight.
21:28 Speaker 00 He, yes.
21:29 Sam Fragoso? In your eight.
21:29 Speaker 00 At when I was about eight. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Really thorough research.
21:34 Sam Fragoso? But so I guess like, did you think that the only way to be an artist was through fine arts?
21:41 Speaker 00 My mom did watch TV. We just, we had like basic cable and like my TV time was kind of limited. But yeah, there was definitely, um, you could say there was, um, an element of elitism about the arts. Like we're, it's like New Yorker reading, symphony going family for sure. And yet every Christmas, my dad's favorite movie is, um, Christmas Vacation. He watches it every single year without fail. My mom and dad, like the one show that they could agree on was Law and Order.
22:19 Sam Fragoso? My favorite.
22:20 Speaker 00 It's so good.
22:22 Sam Fragoso? So they weren't so highbrow that they couldn't enjoy Law and Order?
22:26 Speaker 00 Yeah. The Law and Order, I guess, has its own sort of like, it's educated, right? All of the writers are ex-lawyers. Like it's intelligent. I don't know if I could totally say the same thing about Christmas Vacation. My dad loves it.
22:40 Sam Fragoso? No, no. Christmas Vacation is written exclusively by ex-lawyers.
22:45 Sam Fragoso? That's how it's so funny.
22:47 Speaker 00 It does feel, it is that like biting, uh, Chevy Chase.
22:51 Sam Fragoso? You know how litigious people can be funny?
22:54 Speaker 00 They, they can.
22:55 Sam Fragoso? They can.
22:56 Speaker 00 You know.
22:56 Sam Fragoso? What did you like?
22:57 Speaker 00 I loved, um, one of my favorite movies of all time is, was, uh, Romy Michelle's High School Reunion.
23:05 Sam Fragoso? Incredible.
23:05 Speaker 00 I had one of those like little TVs with the VHS thing attached to the like big, it's big. Now it, now it wouldn't seem little, but it was a small TV. And I ruined my VHS copy because I watched Romy Michelle's High School Reunion so many times. And they're so funny. I heard, someone sent me this thing about them being potentially in talks to do like a sequel. And like, I, having been in a sequel that people dreaded, I want to just be supportive of every. Everything but and just know that like a new movie can't ruin the old one. But also like it's an intense experience to think like, oh, my God, you're revisiting this. This thing that I love so much. Whoa, I didn't even think about that.
23:48 Speaker 00 I feel like I'm trying to live the businesswoman special every day. I bring it up and then I'm like, have you seen Romeo and Juliet? God, I love them so much.
23:56 Sam Fragoso? Give me a sense of like, like you said, like your parents split up at four when you're four. And then your father got remarried at eight. And I heard you say in one interview that it's still shocking to me that I had to pack a case every week to move between my parents' homes.
24:12 Speaker 00 Yeah, I packed a bag weekly and moved. I remember when I was really, really young, I felt so guilty if I didn't want to leave one house. Oh, my God, you're gonna make me cry. If I didn't want to leave one parent's house, I would feel guilty about that going to the other. Your knowing nod and the eye, the eye like slow blink eye roll, kind of like, absolutely, I understand you nod was what made me feel like crying. Cause it's it's this thing that like, it's this very specific feeling that you are raised with. And it's really complicated between two parents in that situation.
24:54 Speaker 00 I don't know what a better solution would be, and I don't blame them for what that was. But my God, it's it's it's crazy that like formative. I mean, I think my first memory is my parents getting divorced. Even though they like, you know, there wasn't like all that much animosity between them. I think comparatively to some other divorces I heard about. It wasn't like they just, they split up. I mean, divorce is hard no matter what. And they weren't like besties by any stretch, but but it wasn't as contentious as it could have been.
25:23 Sam Fragoso? Why does my knowing nod make you want to cry?
25:27 Speaker 00 You're just trying to get me to cry again.
25:30 Sam Fragoso? I'm just trying to understand.
25:33 Speaker 00 You know, it's all coming back for me right now in a really interesting way because as I was doing A Complete Unknown, I was going back and forth between the movie and Toronto to shoot a show that I'm on called Fubar. And I would like wake up and not know where I was and like just living out of a suitcase. And I, I started to remember that being so dramatic for me, that feeling so unsettled and so unstable. I mean, I, I'm drawn to my profession, I think in part because I like the change up and I like, I'm good at adapting to new places, but like never really landing
26:13 Speaker 00 in any way. I was like, oh, I grew up in this environment and I kind of can't believe as an adult, I can't imagine putting a child through that. I can't imagine how I managed to do, it just was my circumstances. And, but that is so, it changes you as a person to be that uprooted, weakly. And my dad would be like, what is this mess in your room? You're living out, it's like you're living out of a suitcase. And I'm like, well.
26:44 Sam Fragoso? Subconsciously, do you think you recreated the conditions of your childhood now as a working actor?
26:50 Speaker 00 Probably. I think I try not to. I have not been in my home for longer than like a 10 day stretch since March. I, I don't know if I've ever in my life just known I would be like waking up in the same place every morning for a stretch longer than a couple of months. And that is wild. And it's like, I could say it's comfortable for me or maybe I'm attracted to it. It's normalcy, like my homeostasis.
27:21 Sam Fragoso? You may just be good at it.
27:22 Speaker 00 But I don't think it's comfortable. Yeah. I don't think it, and sometimes I feel like I'm telling people about it or like it comes up and people are like, wow, that's really crazy. But when you meet someone who gets it.
27:32 Sam Fragoso? Yeah.
27:32 Speaker 00 It's just, there's just an undercurrent of understanding.
27:35 Sam Fragoso? I think it's the distinction between being good at something doesn't necessarily mean it's good for you.
27:41 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah. Of course.
27:42 Sam Fragoso? And that's hard to reckon with because I suspect we both like to be good at the things that we do.
27:48 Speaker 00 Yeah.
27:48 Sam Fragoso? Even if they're not always serving us or working for us.
27:51 Speaker 00 Yeah.
27:52 Sam Fragoso? But when you do decide to give this a go.
27:56 Speaker 00 Acting?
27:56 Sam Fragoso? Yeah. Like, you go to NYU to study dance.
28:00 Speaker 00 Yeah.
28:01 Sam Fragoso? You fully graduate with a degree in dance.
28:05 Speaker 00 Yeah.
28:05 Sam Fragoso? And then after graduating, you're like, I don't know. I maybe want to pursue this acting thing. You said once, I guess you could compare it to being with someone and you know it's not quite right. You love them, but not enough, and you can't stop thinking about doing other things with your life. That's kind of how I was with ballet. So how did you decide to break up with ballet?
28:30 Speaker 00 I was really burnt out and my body was exhausted and there was no foreseeable financial relief in that, you know, there was no, there was no like lucrative ends to where I was headed with dance. And I, I was not particularly interested in becoming a dancer on Broadway. And that, that would have been the best financial possibility for me. It was the end of the recession when I graduated and I just knew, I had known for a long time. It really is that feeling. You're like, I just know this isn't for me. And that feels like a weird thing to say because it feels like I'm somehow like rejecting dance, but I have the utmost respect for it and love it.
29:14 Speaker 00 And like, just was in a dance studio yesterday for something, but I couldn't pursue it to the degree that I've pursued acting. So I just didn't care in that way. I call myself a commitment phobe, but I actually like have committed wholeheartedly to this career in a way that has uprooted my life.
29:30 Sam Fragoso? That's who you put on the dating apps is commitment phobe?
29:32 Speaker 00 Commitment phobe. Yeah. Oh, I tell people very early on when I, yeah. It's cool. And it's probably my childhood is fine. I, I don't know. I, I think somewhere in me, I actually have always known that like I will commit completely to something, to, to like my work. And I wanted to be able to give that energy to something, but I just needed to know that I cared so much about it. And I just didn't want to be in a studio all the time.
29:59 Sam Fragoso? Right.
29:59 Speaker 00 And acting gives you the chance to take on, you know, a thousand different skills and live as many lives as you can pack into your schedule, sort of.
30:12 Sam Fragoso? So you moved back to San Francisco?
30:14 Speaker 00 Mm-hmm.
30:14 Sam Fragoso? And you begin to really give this a go.
30:16 Speaker 00 Yeah.
30:17 Sam Fragoso? You go to the Barnes and Noble and buy the book, How to Be a Working Actor.
30:21 Speaker 00 Yeah. I think I still have it somewhere.
30:25 Sam Fragoso? What did the book help you with? Like, was it useful?
30:29 Speaker 00 It was really useful. I remember it had little anecdotes, like, I guess Michael Caine lied on his original resume. He said something like he was in the play waiting for Godot as Godot. And he went into an audition and they were like, you realize he never shows up in the play. And he was like, oops, it's so good.
30:47 Sam Fragoso? Did you have your version of that?
30:49 Speaker 00 No, I mean, I learned how to, but it taught me how to like write an acting resume specifically. I was in New York for that summer and planning to move back to San Francisco. I had no money and just was like, oh, God, what, what am I gonna do? And it said in there, like, it can be useful to actually start your career in smaller markets, like, you know, smaller cities where there's acting opportunity, but it's not quite as big of a pond. And San Francisco was one of those places. It was like Chicago and San Francisco were some great places to start acting, get your feet wet, do student film, short films. There's training program, you know, like the resources available to you and potentially
31:31 Speaker 00 work. And I was like, great, I'll move home. And it even had like sfcasting.com. And I got on that site and uploaded a headshot that they forced me to take and pay for NYU. And, um, and I uploaded my new version of a resume that I learned how to write and started self submitting.
31:51 Sam Fragoso? It goes pretty well in the beginning. You get commercials, you're in a bunch of short films. It's my understanding that you had some contact with a manager that you believed was going to represent you. And when you land in the city, she sends you an email that says, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna take you on, but it's good you're here to see if this is really for you.
32:11 Speaker 00 I can't believe I, where did you find that? Have I already told someone that in an interview?
32:16 Sam Fragoso? No, no, I called her up this morning.
32:19 Speaker 00 Is she eating her words?
32:20 Sam Fragoso? She is. She is. She actually hasn't slept since the Oscars were announced.
32:28 Speaker 00 You know, honestly, I think every bit of struggle has been so
32:33 Sam Fragoso? Right.
32:33 Speaker 00 helpful for me. That did not, that felt terrible when it happened.
32:38 Sam Fragoso? Yeah, tell me.
32:38 Speaker 00 Yeah.
32:39 Sam Fragoso? How did you hold that rejection? How did you move past it? That must have been an upsetting email to get.
32:44 Speaker 00 I just love the like, see if this is for you.
32:47 Sam Fragoso? Oh.
32:48 Speaker 00 I had had an acting class in San Francisco with a lot of close friends and a really lovely teacher who really believed in me. And that was really helpful. And I had proven myself in a way, and I mention this when I can, in these spaces of awards where like, the idea of being in a film that is getting this attention, it's like, these five supporting performances that are nominated, like, yes, are excellent performances. But like, it also takes being in a movie that's revered. It takes having had the opportunity. It's that year that that movie is ahead of the others.
33:32 Speaker 00 It's if you look at like, the list of movies that came out in 99, it's like, the competition is insane. There are so many things that have to go right for you to even be in this position. And like, I always say, I've seen acting performances in acting class, in like, scene study class in LA and San Francisco, that I would give awards to. But nobody sees them. And I just, I've had experiences. I don't think Joan is necessarily, like, like having played Joan in this movie is the best thing I've ever done as an actor. But it's definitely the best thing I've done that people see.
34:08 Sam Fragoso? Yeah, I think the best thing you've done, but you can't find it, is playing Jogger Number One in the short film Touchdown.
34:16 Speaker 00 That's my brother's favorite IMDb credit for me. It's like, so Jogger Number One. But it's like, at that time, I was working on Cat in a Hot Tin Roof. Like, it's just, it's, I guess what I'm trying to say is like, I had an undercurrent of belief in myself and like, support through a community that nobody knows about, that was like, putting Wind in my sails and I've experienced so much disappointment, but I was also like, I've committed this far. I love it. I was in that like toxic love with it. And I just kept going and then kept training and figured there was something to learn. And if I had gotten the attention of a manager, I could maybe do that again.
34:57 Speaker 00 And maybe the timing would make more sense. And I'm glad I had two years of absolute painful struggle and like no jobs aside from, I think, one or two commercials to bang my head against a wall, try improv, like have fun, obsess over work and like learn how really difficult it is to create a career in this industry from nothing.
35:22 Sam Fragoso? So you knew her email was wrong?
35:25 Speaker 00 I think some days I would wake up and feel like she's right. And I think some moments I would feel like she was wrong. And I think that's just kind of how that goes. And I don't think she necessarily would have been wrong if within me I went, she's right and I don't want to do this, or I, I like hate this and I want to quit. It was always an option to quit and I just didn't take it. It wasn't about whether she was right or wrong. Whether she was right or wrong depended on what I did next.
36:06 Sam Fragoso? After the break, what Monica Barbaro did next.
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37:50 Sam Fragoso? When Top Gun got nominated,
37:51 Speaker 00 Mm, yeah.
37:52 Sam Fragoso? you went to the Oscars and you said, "You want to believe that this could happen, that you could go back to that room. You want to be hopeful that you'll be back there. But there's been so much working against me that I don't take things like that very lightly." What did you mean by that? Like, things working against you?
38:10 Speaker 00 I've always understood that the likelihood of becoming a working actor is very low. And so when I became a working actor, I knew it was monumental. I didn't have anything really telling me that that was a shoo-in. I mean, and I think, like I said, I recognized people were doing... I met people in acting classes who had been putting up excellent work for decades and weren't working. Getting work is like, it's almost a whole different job. And so I think I just was keenly aware of that. I went to a SAG meeting when I first moved to LA like, okay, I'm a part of this union now.
38:52 Speaker 00 Like, and my God, like, these actors who were explaining their resumes and then telling this panel that like, they had no money and that their pension was, I was like, oh my God, I'm so screwed. And it's so hard to get to a place where you can rely on your financial. I mean, I still don't feel like I'm in a place where I could just like coast financially. It's just so hard to build an acting career. I don't take any of that for granted. And I'm so, I feel so lucky to be a working actor. And any accolades that have come my way, any jobs that come my way, like, one of my immediate thoughts, like, yeah, of course, the artistic satisfaction of working on certain projects is just like unbelievable. It's miraculous.
39:37 Speaker 00 But also, there's a part of me somewhere that goes like, oh, good, then I'll be able to work again after this. Like Top Gun, I was like, you know, if this goes well, hopefully, I'll get more work after because I've been associated with this project. But even that, I was like, I can't rest on laurels. Like, just in case this doesn't go well, let's make sure, you know, I gotta make sure my team is still submitting for me for, you know, I don't know, it breathes a certain kind of anxiety and desperation a little bit, this business.
40:09 Sam Fragoso? When you did Top Gun, you talked to some women who fly planes and fight. And they talked about working in a male-dominated industry and working twice as hard to get half as far. And, you know, in reading about your life, I was re-watching the movie last night, and there's that scene in Complete Unknown between you and Timothy.
40:35 Speaker 00 I had lessons as a kid, you know, normal lessons. I write, too. I'm not sure there's a way to learn that.
40:45 Speaker 03 Too hard.
40:47 Speaker 00 Excuse me?
40:51 Speaker 03 You try too hard to write.
40:55 Speaker 00 Really?
40:56 Speaker 03 Yeah, if you're asking.
40:59 Speaker 00 I wasn't.
41:02 Speaker 03 The sunsets and seagulls, smell of buttercups. Your songs are like an oil painting at the dentist's office.
41:11 Speaker 00 You're kind.
41:12 Speaker 03 An asshole, Bob.
41:15 Speaker 03 Yeah, I guess.
41:18 Sam Fragoso? I've seen the movie now three times and I at once look forward to that scene that we just heard and dread that scene. And it's such a demoralizing, painful moment that she takes on the chin really well. I couldn't help but think like, if any part of you was brought back to those two really painful years in Los Angeles and those lines, like trying to make it in an industry often run by men that treat women unfairly, where people try to put you down in a way that Dylan did to Joan in that scene.
41:57 Speaker 00 I don't know that I feel so gendered about it. I think I just feel like my inherent self doubt is, I think I've even seen, more than anything, I think, how I connected with that moment if I did personally. It's sort of like, sometimes I watch my own work or feel about my own work like, oh, it's too safe.
42:21 Sam Fragoso? You believe that?
42:22 Speaker 00 Yeah. Yeah. Not all the time, but I, but I've definitely, I definitely have certain judgments about myself and my look and my, you know, what I bring to the table and, and like when I see my perfectionism at play, I get frustrated with what I'm putting out. I, I think I sort of relate, related to that moment in, in that way, that if someone said to me the exact thing I was most in fear of playing or representing in my, in my artwork, if someone essentially said to me like, well, your acting's kind of boring, or, this happened in dance too, where like I had a ballet background. And so in modern,
43:04 Speaker 00 I was, it was sort of like, oh, you're, you're balletic and, and that is not cool. And so to have that pointed out to you is a frustrating experience. And it's one of those things where like the insult hits harder because you kind of maybe believe it a little bit yourself and-
43:24 Sam Fragoso? Yeah, the 10% of you that goes, everyone else is wrong. That person sees me, right?
43:30 Speaker 00 Yeah, especially when you hear Joan talking about like her interest in imperfection and throwing things in a pool and wanting to be free. Calling her work overly beautified is like that exact thing he knows to say to fuck her up. And so that's kind of how I saw it. I don't know that I felt gendered about it, really. I think it can go both ways.
43:53 Sam Fragoso? Anyone making something, yeah.
43:54 Speaker 00 Yeah, if someone can cut, it's like internet commenting, like there's that one comment someone will make on a thing and you're like, they know I'm a fraud. I think it's interesting, like I find I change, like criticism has really, it doesn't hit me in the same way that it used to. Like that comment of, see if this is for you. I have no animosity toward that woman whatsoever. I completely.
44:24 Sam Fragoso? I do on your behalf, but okay.
44:26 Speaker 00 Thank you. But I understand where she's coming from and she's probably navigating, like, young girl coming to town in LA, like dime a dozen. And I kind of want to like, I think it'd be really interesting to talk to her.
44:41 Sam Fragoso? You should invite her to the Oscars.
44:43 Speaker 00 I had a moment with, yeah, can you be my guest? No, that makes me mad. I would never. That, now I'm mad at her again.
44:50 Sam Fragoso? I got you back.
44:51 Speaker 00 I don't even know who I'm gonna bring, but it's not her. But I think, you just invited her back into my space, I'm like, no. No, but it's interesting, I actually had an interaction recently, I'll give like as much as I can of this without exposing this person. I had an interaction with this person who I like grew up with, who I found to be in the dance space, to be someone I was afraid of, and she was critical of me. That's my memory of it. I don't know how she would remember it. It was the craziest thing, we ran into each other, she's actually, no, she's definitely gonna know who I'm talking about. She's working closely with me on this, actually. It was just this crazy circumstance where it was this person from my past who's meeting
45:31 Speaker 00 me in this space now, and it's all support and all love, and I'm like height of my career, but we came from this. Place where in high school, in the space that we shared, I felt she hated me. I felt that she did not like that I got good parts in ballet. Like, we had a relationship where I was in fear of this person. And then to meet her so many years later and have this incredible cordial conversation, I was sort of like, wow, this is really healing for me. This is like, I don't know, it's kind of amazing to run into people later. And again, I'm at, I'm at a really peak point in my life where someone saying, maybe this isn't for you,
46:11 Speaker 00 doesn't get to me because it's so, I'm so clearly validated right now in my decisions. And, you know, whether or not I deserved a part in ballet in high school has no relevance to me right now. I mean, it does in terms of my development, my psychology, whatever, but like, but it's kind of crazy to like, look back at these people who did sort of hurt you in some way, whether they meant to or not, and evaluate whether that still affects you or what, or how important they were to you. I'm not trying to just be like toxically optimistic. Clearly, I'm not that person, although the coffee is hitting and it changes me as a person.
46:54 Speaker 00 But I think, I do think all of those interactions are of value. I think internet critics suck, for the record, and they're wasting everyone's time.
47:03 Sam Fragoso? Any of that stuff?
47:04 Speaker 00 Oh, uh, some, yeah, I do and I don't. I, I, honestly, doing this movie was very helpful because I did see a lot of people very critical of all kinds of things about me before ever seeing the movie. And then going like, well, they haven't even seen it yet. And I'm like, cool, there's your answer. They haven't even seen it yet. And like, in the end, they may hate you. And that's, that is what it is. And, and I think there was like someone trying to make the hashtag happen, not my Joan, when the trailer came out. And I was like, to be fair, I'm not my Joan either. Joan is my only Joan. And she's the coolest and I don't replace her. That's it.
47:41 Sam Fragoso? Thank you for being, what was it? Toxically optimistic on my behalf?
47:45 Speaker 00 I don't know if it's, maybe it's just neutral. And I mean, but you're ambitious and you're a hard worker and you have perfectionism. So you see the negative, like you have the critical voice thing.
47:56 Sam Fragoso? You mean the voice you have?
47:58 Speaker 00 The divorced parents.
47:59 Sam Fragoso? Quarter Mexican, half Mexican.
48:01 Speaker 00 Are you really?
48:02 Sam Fragoso? Yeah.
48:02 Speaker 00 Oh, my God, cool. How are we only touching on that now? It's everyone's favorite first thing to say to me.
48:08 Sam Fragoso? Which is why I didn't say it.
48:09 Speaker 00 Thank you. That's how I know you really understand.
48:12 Sam Fragoso? If we polled five people.
48:14 Speaker 00 Yep.
48:14 Sam Fragoso? And we were like, which one do you think is half?
48:18 Speaker 00 Which one is a quarter? Well, I would assume it's a trick question and I would guess you.
48:27 Speaker 00 Yeah, do you look more like your non-Mexican parent?
48:32 Sam Fragoso? I look like an amalgamation of both of them, but I don't look. My dad doesn't look that Mexican either, even though he's 100%.
48:39 Speaker 00 Yeah, well, like if you were in Mexico, speaking Spanish with the perfect Mexican accent, no one would think twice. Like you do fit in fine. It just, that's what I think a lot of people in the States don't understand. And a lot of people casting a lot of movies don't understand is that a lot of Mexicans don't look like what they think they mean when they're saying Mexicans.
49:01 Sam Fragoso? Including Joan Baez.
49:02 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Often when people are stereotyping a Mexican look, they're talking about indigenous looking people. That's just a distinction, that's it.
49:11 Sam Fragoso? Before you did the film. You would have dreams of being with Joan Baez in like a convertible.
49:18 Speaker 00 Yeah, we were on a highway in a convertible. This is, I was definitely gonna never tell anyone this. And then it just slowly, every interview gets more of it out of me. I feel like we hung out in different spaces at different times, but that's the one I remember most. And she was just laughing and I felt bright and spirited and it was joyous and light and lovely. And I think my subconscious was trying to tell me that it was gonna be okay.
49:45 Sam Fragoso? So when you do speak to her.
49:47 Speaker 00 Yeah.
49:47 Sam Fragoso? On the phone.
49:48 Speaker 00 I was like, do you have a convertible?
49:50 Sam Fragoso? Did you? Did you call her or did she call you?
49:53 Speaker 00 I was in the W Hoboken, where I was put up for this movie, where I learned to make eggs in a microwave and used an air press to make myself coffee every morning. And. I sat and I think I probably called, I think it was like, call this number at this time or something.
50:10 Sam Fragoso? Mm hmm.
50:11 Speaker 00 And we got on the phone and I heard her say hello and I like, uh, kind of couldn't breathe. And then by the time we got off the phone, I like, we hung up and I just like flood.
50:24 Sam Fragoso? When you're on a call like that.
50:26 Speaker 00 Yeah.
50:26 Sam Fragoso? Cause I've had a lot of people on the show that I've like grown up loving.
50:31 Speaker 00 Sorry, not me?
50:33 Sam Fragoso? No, no, I grew up loving you. Like I said, the short film Touchdown, year 2013, maybe?
50:39 Speaker 00 I know, it was the jogger number one.
50:41 Sam Fragoso? Jogger number one?
50:41 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
50:42 Sam Fragoso? There was actually a part before that, that was an uncredited role in a film I can't remember the title of.
50:46 Speaker 00 That I did a Philip Kaufman movie. They say it's uncredited, but I'm in the credits. I don't understand what that means. It never ends.
50:53 Sam Fragoso? Yeah, so obviously I grew up loving your early formative work.
50:57 Speaker 00 Sorry, I didn't mean to derail on that.
50:58 Sam Fragoso? That just happened.
50:59 Speaker 00 That was a dumb joke.
50:59 Sam Fragoso? No, it was a good.
51:00 Speaker 00 No, you've grown up loving people, admiring people and like, what? The stakes are just so high. Sorry, I'll get you back on track because it wasn't even a funny.
51:07 Sam Fragoso? It wasn't that bad. I mean, I've enjoyed this.
51:10 Speaker 00 I'm enjoying the hell out of it.
51:12 Sam Fragoso? We've had a couple of good bits.
51:13 Speaker 00 I just, I wish, I always wish my vocabulary was better and that my sentences were stronger and that I was better at expressing myself.
51:21 Sam Fragoso? Okay, so you are like everyone else in the world.
51:26 Speaker 00 Someone with their button unbuttoned at work is going, uh huh, and they're nodding and I feel emotional thinking about them with their.
51:33 Sam Fragoso? We saw and heard our listeners in the beginning of this episode, we're also ending that way.
51:39 Speaker 00 Perfect.
51:40 Sam Fragoso? When we have people that are older.
51:42 Speaker 00 Yeah.
51:43 Sam Fragoso? I'm not just meeting people, like I'm, I'm doing my job.
51:46 Speaker 00 Hmm.
51:47 Sam Fragoso? The same way you're not just calling Joan, you're doing your job.
51:50 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
51:51 Sam Fragoso? So there's one track that goes. This is so weird. I'm talking to Joan Baez.
51:58 Speaker 00 Yeah.
51:58 Sam Fragoso? And I've had many episodes like that where I go, this is so weird. I'm talking to Frances Ford Coppola.
52:04 Speaker 00 Yeah.
52:05 Sam Fragoso? But then the other part of you goes, yeah, but I have to do a great job.
52:09 Speaker 00 Yeah.
52:09 Sam Fragoso? And the person that has to do a great job is not the same person who's like, I can't believe I'm talking to Joan Baez.
52:16 Speaker 00 Right.
52:17 Sam Fragoso? And so I want to know, as we go, like in that call, how are you holding the person that's nervous versus the person that's nervous to do a great job and be this woman that you love?
52:30 Speaker 00 I don't know. And I think I hung up that call probably in the whale walk away from this, where I will sit and I will question everything I said and did and was it, did I get enough information? Did I express myself clearly? Did I, did I do it right?
52:48 Speaker 00 The constant critic. But I think, I think that's so interesting, the way you say it, because I also have this crave, I mean, having researched, stalked, researched her so carefully and, um, and feeling a connection with a lot of, you know, elements of her and her life. And, um, I do have that craving to like, sit down and meet her.
53:16 Sam Fragoso? Right. Untethered to the legacy of Dylan.
53:19 Speaker 00 Yeah. And completely untethered from awards. God, yeah. So far away from Dylan. I'm so much more interested in Joan. And just as two people, as two creative, I mean, I wouldn't have that opportunity if it weren't for this job. But like, I think now, having been through what we've been through, me representing her, her being talked about a ton in the context of this film, film that she had no control over. I, yeah, I would love to just actually have a normal-ish, nothing's normal about that situation, but like, have a normal-ish chat with her, which I imagine is probably how you feel with,
54:02 Speaker 00 like, you want to do a great job, but you're also like, man, the creative in me really wants to just like, kind of get weird.
54:09 Sam Fragoso? As evidenced by this podcast, I can usually do both. As we leave, on the other side of the phone call, you create your portrait of her. You're nominated for an Oscar. As you're heading towards this day, this award ceremony, the end of this cycle, if we were to do this again in five years, what would you like to have done?
54:34 Speaker 00 I'm curious how I'll feel about everything in five years, but I think the coolest thing about all of this is that I get to continue working. And for the first time in my life, I don't constantly fear that I will be fired on everything I do. And that, and literally every time I rap something, I go, well, maybe I'll never work again. And that's been my whole career. It takes a long time to kind of beat that out of your system. And obviously it can all, I mean, still can all fall apart at any time. I also auditioned for something recently that I didn't get. And like, I love that. I like that I'm still a working actor,
55:19 Speaker 00 doing my best, getting to create, starting from scratch, walking onto set, feeling like, oh, God, am I going to be able to do anything good today? And that like, I get to keep doing all of that. I hope in five years I have furnished my home finally and have made some like personal moves that I won't share right now. But like, yeah, I don't know. I'm, I'm 35 and need to like, look at my life in a way that I haven't let myself. So I'm, I'm hoping there's like some personal development as well. But yeah, I just want to keep like, working with cool people and getting to like, create and get weird and mess up.
56:00 Sam Fragoso? Well, I thank you for looking at your life together on a podcast.
56:04 Speaker 00 Thank you for such thorough research. Stop reading my journals. Jesus.
56:10 Sam Fragoso? And most importantly, I hope on the other side of this, you can put the suitcase in the closet and let it sit there for a second. I think we have to button our top button now and leave.
56:22 Speaker 00 Oh, God, I forgot about having to button up again, literally.
56:25 Sam Fragoso? I know.
56:27 Sam Fragoso? You ready?
56:28 Speaker 00 Yeah, I'm ready.
56:28 Sam Fragoso? Okay. Monica Barbaro, thank you for coming on.
56:32 Speaker 00 Thank you for having me.
56:36 Speaker 02 On my window, leave at your own chosen speed. I'm not the one you want, babe.
56:50 Speaker 03 I am not the one you need. You say you're looking for someone never weak, but always strong. To protect you and defend you. Whether you are right or wrong. Someone to open each and every door. But it ain't me, babe. No, no, no, it ain't me, babe. It ain't me you're looking for, babe.
57:55 Sam Fragoso? And that's our show. If you enjoyed that conversation with Monica Barbaro, please be sure to share it online, on social media with a friend, a family member, anyone that you think may enjoy the kind of conversations we have here each and every Sunday. I want to give a special thanks this week to Narrative PR, Searchlight, and of course, our guest, Monica Barbaro. Her Oscar nominated performance in the film A Complete Unknown is now available to watch on VOD. If you'd like to learn more about her and her work, visit our show notes at TalkEasyPod.com.
58:31 Sam Fragoso? For more episodes with other Oscar nominated actors, I'd recommend Edward Norton, Mikey Madison, and Jesse Eisenberg. To hear those and more Lemonada Podcast, listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you like to listen. You can also subscribe to Lemonada Premium if you're interested in some bonus content. Just hit the subscribe button on Apple or head to lemonadapremium.com. If you want to drop us a line, you can email me at [email protected] . That's [email protected] . If you want to follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, we're at Talk Easy Pod. And of course, if you want to purchase one
59:10 Sam Fragoso? of our mugs, they come in cream or navy, you can go to talkeasypod.com/shop. Talk Easy is produced by Caroline Reebok. Our executive producer is Janix Bravo. Today's talk was edited by Lindsay Ellis and mixed by Andrew Bastola. It was taped out of City Box here in New York City. Our music is by Dylan Peck. Our illustrations are by Chris Shannoy. Photographs today are by Jeb Burrows. Additional research comes from Ben Eisen. This episode was made in partnership with the good people at Lemonada Media, and I'm Sam Fragoso. Thank you for listening to Talk Easy. I'll see you back here next week with
59:48 Sam Fragoso? a brand new episode. Until then, stay safe, so long, and my late grandmother, Jan Myers, 85 years old. May she rest in peace.
1:00:03 Speaker 04 I'm Dan Heath. On What It's Like to Be, I interview people about their jobs. Here's a married couple that drives a long haul truck together.
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Previous Oscars Week with Jesse Eisenberg (‘A Real Pain’) Next A Portrait of the Artist Tyler Mitchell Page updated November 3, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated