Pod Insights Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware Oti Mabuse About this episode In Strictly fabulous news, this week we’re joined by dance goddess, Oti Mabuse! Oti was beloved on Strictly Come Dancing in the UK, but she is also now head judge on the Irish version Dancing With the Stars - on top of that she is an author, presenter, podcaster and this week she has announced the wonderful news that she is pregnant with her second child! We heard all about Oti growing up in Pretoria and the delicious South African food her family would cook, being a destined dancer from age 4, competing in Blackpool from age 11, being best mates with gorgeous friend of the podcast Johannes Radebe, having more than double the invited guests turn up to her wedding, eating shark in Iceland, plus we discover the real meaning behind the name Oti! Thanks for popping over Oti, we can’t wait to try a traditional ’Seven Colours’ dish when we see you next. Oti’s latest book ‘Slow Burn’ is out now.
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Transcript 11,155 words · 7 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 State Fair food is getting smaller and pricier.
0:03 Speaker 01 We'll have room for fried cookies.
0:05 Speaker 00 Okay, you never overspend on food. What's your deal?
0:08 Speaker 02 What's his deal? He went to Metro and got $450 in value on the new Samsung Galaxy A37 5G for free and no activation fees.
0:16 Speaker 00 Free phone? Oh, sign me up.
0:19 Speaker 02 Get that more for your money feeling, only on Metro by T-Mobile.
0:22 Speaker 03 Bring your number and activate $40 period plan. $450 based on device discount waived activation fee. Not available if with Metro or T-Mobile in the past 180 days.
0:35 Jessie Ware? Hello and welcome to Tobin Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here on a... Well, there was just thunderstorms, but now it's blue sky. Make your mind up, London.
0:44 Speaker 05 Yeah, it's kind of a sunny day.
0:46 Jessie Ware? How are you, Mum?
0:48 Speaker 05 I'm okay, darling.
0:48 Jessie Ware? I was gonna wear a lemon shirt. And I'm glad that I didn't come down in the same outfit as you today.
0:54 Speaker 05 Oh, well, one in lemon.
0:56 Jessie Ware? It's very strange.
0:57 Speaker 05 It's very... Sorry. Do you think it's telepathic?
0:59 Jessie Ware? I don't know. Does anyone else sync their clothes with their parents? Maybe you can let us know, because this happens a lot.
1:09 Speaker 05 Does your daughter sync with you? No.
1:11 Jessie Ware? No, because I'm not wearing horse t-shirts or...
1:14 Speaker 05 Or shorts.
1:16 Jessie Ware? Yeah, I'm definitely not wearing them batty riders, I tell you that she's wearing. Do you know who I sync with? Who? My twin brother. Oh. Always in that way, the same colour. Producer Alice, can you get on the mic quickly, please? So you've just said... Go on. I always sync with my twin brother. I mean, that kind of makes sense to me, that you're twins. You're like genetically, you know, very...
1:38 Speaker 05 Combined.
1:38 Jessie Ware? Combined. But I... I mean, yeah, you're my mum.
1:42 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:42 Jessie Ware? And you're very close. That's very... Are you very close with your brother? Yeah. Oh, okay.
1:46 Speaker 05 But maybe it's because I've got such exceptional taste that you've inherited that from me.
1:51 Jessie Ware? Maybe it is.
1:52 Speaker 05 Maybe.
1:53 Jessie Ware? Maybe I will be shopping in Wallace and Faze and East and M and actually I already shop in M and S.
1:59 Speaker 05 Sahara now.
2:00 Jessie Ware? Sahara, okay. We have Otie Mabuse on the podcast today and we're both really excited because we're so fond of her.
2:08 Speaker 05 So fond of her, long time admirer of her dancing and her stature and her wonderfulness.
2:15 Jessie Ware? She's a star. She's, I think, the only dancer to win consecutive Stricklys. She's amazing. She's now a writer. She's written this book called Slow Burn, which is, sounds really sexy and gorgeous about two dancers that have a past. And she's also gone and done this trip back to South Africa with Reverend Richard Coles.
2:40 Speaker 05 How interesting.
2:42 Jessie Ware? I wonder how they became friends. Was it through Strictly?
2:44 Speaker 05 Possibly, because he was on Strictly, although he went very early on.
2:48 Jessie Ware? And yeah, she's coming on today to talk about the book, to talk about the documentary. I think she's just got some new, very, very exciting news that she's just announced to the world. So we will hear from her. And I am cooking.
3:02 Speaker 05 What have you done?
3:03 Jessie Ware? I'm doing something that I think I haven't done for a few seasons because I think the last time I did it was with Rose Matafeo. Alison Roman, who we do a lot of on this podcast, it's her slow roasted chicken with tomatoes and oregano. And you basically cook a bird for, on a lower heat for two and a half to three hours. Hold on, how long has it been on? Okay, it's been on for over two and a half hours. But you put loads of tomatoes in there, two garlic bulbs that you cut in half, and then fennel seeds. And then you add at the end, when it's resting, you add a bit of vinegar.
3:39 Speaker 05 Have we got bread for dunking?
3:41 Jessie Ware? We've got bread for dunking from, I mean, people that are in South East London will know about the Lirisham Italian Deli.
3:46 Speaker 05 Never ever heard of it.
3:47 Jessie Ware? It's the best. When I was writing my first record with David Kumu, he lived right around the corner and we'd go there and get these beautiful sandwiches and like espressos and stuff. Anyway, it's such a gorgeous deli and you're supposed to toast the bread.
3:58 Speaker 05 No, no, no.
3:59 Jessie Ware? Alison, I love you. You know I. Worship the church of answer Roman, but I'm just gonna use nice fresh bread.
4:04 Speaker 05 Yeah.
4:05 Jessie Ware? And so you just dip. And then I've just got, uh, you know, Alison's go to herb salad. You put any herbs that you've got in the fridge with lettuce.
4:12 Speaker 05 Did you appreciate all the herbs I sent, gave you?
4:15 Jessie Ware? Mum, no, I already had herbs, so thank you. So I'm just gonna have to have herb salad for the next year.
4:20 Speaker 05 Okay, good.
4:20 Jessie Ware? Um, with lemon and olive oil, and then you've done pudding.
4:24 Speaker 05 Yeah, I've made a mango and passion fruit cheesecake.
4:28 Jessie Ware? Mmm. Um, right, Otimabusi coming up on Table manners.
4:42 Jessie Ware? Otimabusi, you're here, looking glamorous, fabulous. Beautiful. You've just had a bag of crisps?
4:48 Speaker 06 Yes, I did.
4:49 Jessie Ware? And you're telling me all about the Irish crisps?
4:51 Speaker 06 I, I know.
4:51 Jessie Ware? Come on, hit me.
4:52 Speaker 06 I'm so obsessed with them. I'm obsessed with potatoes in Ireland, just potatoes, right?
4:57 Jessie Ware? Is this from working on Dancing with the Stars?
5:00 Speaker 06 Yes, so they have potato bread, they like, they've got incredible butter, it's called like Carri- Carri-.
5:06 Jessie Ware? Carrigold.
5:07 Speaker 06 Oh, my god.
5:08 Jessie Ware? Yeah, it's great.
5:09 Speaker 06 It's like drinking milk.
5:10 Jessie Ware? It is good.
5:11 Speaker 06 And they have crisps. I love O'Donnell's. They are like my favourite. But everyone there does love potatoes.
5:18 Jessie Ware? Yeah.
5:19 Speaker 06 And it's like their national, like it's their heart.
5:21 Jessie Ware? National crisps.
5:22 Speaker 06 Yeah, it's like.
5:23 Jessie Ware? What's the difference between an O'Donnell's and then Tato?
5:27 Speaker 06 I, no, it's, it's.
5:28 Jessie Ware? Like, thicker?
5:30 Speaker 06 It's thicker, it's a different cut as well. I don't, I kinda like the flavour to explode at me. And so they really do that.
5:39 Jessie Ware? What flavour did you just have?
5:40 Speaker 06 Uh, um, salt and vinegar.
5:42 Jessie Ware? The best.
5:42 Speaker 06 That's the only one I can have right now.
5:44 Jessie Ware? What?
5:45 Speaker 05 Absolute worst.
5:46 Speaker 06 What's your favourite?
5:47 Speaker 05 Cheese and onion.
5:48 Speaker 06 No!
5:49 Jessie Ware? No, no.
5:50 Speaker 05 I can't breathe.
5:51 Jessie Ware? No, I'll do cheese and onion when I'm on my own, in the privacy of my own home and I'm not socialising.
5:56 Speaker 05 Well, I'm just not kissing anyone. Well, there you go.
5:59 Speaker 06 So they have really good ones. Tato's have also really good ones. And I do think it's cheese and onion that they like, I'm not sure. But it's like a blue one. And then they are Keog's.
6:09 Jessie Ware? Dogs.
6:09 Speaker 06 Which are, they taste more potatoey than flavour, but but all of them are really good, no MSGs in them. So the flavours are like more natural.
6:18 Jessie Ware? Did you realise you were such a potato lover?
6:20 Speaker 06 No, until I went to Ireland, no.
6:23 Jessie Ware? So can you find your potato cakes in London, I mean in the UK now?
6:27 Speaker 06 No, I have to go to Ireland and I stuck and the nice thing about McDonald's is that they'll send me boxes.
6:33 Jessie Ware? Great.
6:34 Speaker 06 So I'll just pack loads of them in my bag. I think I had like two packets. I'll just pack loads in my bag as a snack and then I'll just eat them.
6:42 Jessie Ware? Well, I guess that leads us on to rate your carb.
6:44 Speaker 06 Oh.
6:45 Jessie Ware? Cause we could, okay, so potatoes, pasta, this is Phil Wang's favourite game, by the way, we did not invent this. Potato, pasta, rice, bread, noodles.
6:55 Speaker 06 In in.
6:55 Jessie Ware? In order of favourite, it's potato at the top.
6:58 Speaker 06 Potato is number one. I can eat all versions of potato.
7:01 Jessie Ware? Fine.
7:01 Speaker 06 Mashed, crisp, potato, like, oh, I love potatoes. My least favourite, I would say noodles, so that would go five.
7:09 Speaker 05 Oh, really?
7:10 Speaker 06 Oh, don't judge me, am I being kicked off?
7:13 Speaker 05 It was his number one, but of these reasons.
7:16 Jessie Ware? Was it his number one?
7:16 Speaker 05 Yeah, of course it was. He comes from Malaysia, darling.
7:19 Speaker 06 Don't they carry like parasites?
7:22 Jessie Ware? Do they?
7:23 Speaker 06 Yeah, yeah, well, like the noodles in the pack, I'm thinking. You know, I'm thinking those two minute, I don't want any breads, but those two minute ones with flavours, yeah, they have parasites in them, they're not.
7:35 Jessie Ware? Are you very into your health?
7:37 Speaker 06 No, my husband is East European and basically they just eat everything from the ground.
7:41 Jessie Ware? Yeah.
7:42 Speaker 06 And so anything in a packet that is like full of colour and full of flavour, he's like, no, I'm not putting in my body.
7:48 Jessie Ware? So what's your favourite Romanian dish that he cooks you?
7:51 Speaker 06 He doesn't cook it for me, his his mother does it and it's called sarmale. And it's basically, it's delicious. It is, um.
8:01 Speaker 06 Chopped onions, chopped garlic in mince meat and they wrap it around a cabbage leaf.
8:07 Speaker 06 And then they let it roast for like a couple of hours and then you can have it with like sour cream or yogurt.
8:13 Jessie Ware? Never tomato based.
8:15 Speaker 06 Ah, you can make the sauce out of tomato, but that I think makes it more Italian then. Um, so the East European side of the world, they wouldn't do that.
8:24 Speaker 05 Does she live near you?
8:25 Speaker 06 No, she lives in East Europe, in Romania.
8:28 Speaker 05 Come to cook these cabbages?
8:29 Speaker 06 Um, every two, three months. Yeah, yeah. And the nice thing about them is that she does them in like lunch boxes and then you can freeze them.
8:39 Speaker 05 Oh, wow.
8:39 Speaker 06 And then when I'm like, I'm too tired, I'll just go to the freezer and then I'll just take two or three and then I make them for my husband. He loves it. They eat a lot in Romania. They have like four cost meals. It's soup, then it's cold meats. Then it's your sarmale or your main dish and then it's dessert.
8:58 Speaker 05 What are the Romanian desserts like?
9:01 Speaker 06 Cakes.
9:02 Speaker 05 Lots of cakes.
9:03 Speaker 06 Lots of cakes, like, but fruit cakes. So, or they'll have, so we'll have a mince pie with meat in it. They would have it with jam and some cream in it. So I had to learn to make that, cause he doesn't like sweet things. He's very specific. Um, yeah, so it will be maybe chocolate cake, but like a little bit of chocolate or it would be cocoa with something that looks like chocolate.
9:26 Speaker 05 Did he take you out for dinner on your first date?
9:29 Speaker 06 No, we went to dance practice.
9:33 Jessie Ware? It's not romantic.
9:35 Speaker 05 And what attracted you to her?
9:37 Speaker 06 Um, oh gosh, so many things, so many things.
9:41 Speaker 05 Is he a Latin dancer?
9:43 Jessie Ware? So, okay, we'll, we'll get back to the first, the Slow Burn.
9:47 Speaker 06 Yeah.
9:48 Jessie Ware? The book is about a Latin, a sexy Latin dancer.
9:51 Speaker 06 Not him. It's not about him. It's ju- yeah, no, it's not.
9:56 Jessie Ware? Your book, Slow Burn. Is to tell the people about what what it's about. It's very racy, kind of exciting, sexy, gorgeous.
10:04 Speaker 06 It's a spicy romance about a spicy romance. I love that genre, um about a couple. So the guy is an Italian world dance champion, very macho, you know, leading man.
10:17 Jessie Ware? Vito?
10:18 Speaker 06 No, not Vito, no. The opposite of Vito, I would say. Vito is very sweet.
10:24 Jessie Ware? Sweet.
10:24 Speaker 06 Yeah, he's like a puppy.
10:26 Jessie Ware? Okay, so are we going for the one that got kicked off, Giovanni?
10:28 Speaker 06 No, we're not going for it. There's no one on Strictly.
10:31 Jessie Ware? Okay, fine, okay.
10:33 Speaker 06 Or we could say it's a combination of both of them.
10:35 Jessie Ware? Fair enough.
10:35 Speaker 06 But it's no one. Actually, this person has not been on television, thank goodness for that. But um very macho, very leading man, very this is my way, and has always been a winner and very toxic in his way.
10:48 Jessie Ware? Good bottom?
10:49 Speaker 06 Very good bottom.
10:51 Jessie Ware? Essential for, essential for Latin.
10:54 Speaker 06 Skinny hair.
10:55 Jessie Ware? Yeah.
10:56 Speaker 06 Um mama's boy, very big mama's boy. And then he meets a girl, uh she's also a dancer. But she is going to have to stop dancing because she has to go home and she has to go take care of her family. And the family were like, there's no future in competing. Let's just run the dance school. And ten years later, well, sorry, the first night, they have a, you know?
11:19 Jessie Ware? Yeah.
11:20 Speaker 06 A fun moment. She leaves, she takes a jet to fly home. And then ten years later, they bump into each other and he still remembers her because that was the best night of his life. And she still remembers him because she was like, oh, you've just gotten a reputation now. And so they clash and they clash. And they don't get along. And then they do get along and then they clash.
11:43 Jessie Ware? Okay, this is, it's giving, it's giving Strictly Ballroom, yeah. It's giving Off Campus.
11:50 Speaker 06 Yes.
11:51 Jessie Ware? And I like those two together.
11:53 Speaker 06 Yes.
11:53 Jessie Ware? Okay.
11:54 Speaker 06 That's the best description.
11:56 Jessie Ware? Okay, great.
11:56 Speaker 06 I finished off campus in a day.
11:58 Jessie Ware? Me too.
11:59 Speaker 05 I've got to watch it.
12:01 Jessie Ware? It's the girl from Mallory Towers, so I've been watching Mallory Towers with my daughter. And now old, what's her name, Daryl's all grown up now.
12:08 Speaker 05 She's grown. So are they at university?
12:11 Jessie Ware? They're at university. It's very kind of coming of age.
12:14 Speaker 06 And it's that ice hockey world.
12:16 Jessie Ware? Garrett Graham.
12:17 Speaker 05 Ice hockey world.
12:18 Speaker 06 And it's very, it's sensual.
12:21 Speaker 05 So.
12:21 Jessie Ware? It was sensual.
12:22 Speaker 05 In your, in your, in your book.
12:24 Speaker 06 Yes.
12:25 Speaker 05 Is he a tango champion? Which is his dance?
12:28 Speaker 06 So he dances the Argentinian tango.
12:31 Speaker 05 Oh, I love that.
12:31 Speaker 06 Yeah, so he's, his mom is from Argentine, Argentina, and then his dad is Italian, so he's a mix.
12:37 Speaker 05 What was your best dance? Was it the Argentine tango?
12:40 Speaker 06 No.
12:41 Speaker 05 Or your ballroom?
12:42 Speaker 06 Um, no, I'm Latin. So you have Latin and ballroom. So you have your samba, cha cha rumba, paso jive. And then you have your ballroom, which is your Waltz, Phoenix Waltz, foxtrot, quickstep, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then we get the off. Latin and ballroom style. So that's the salsa, the Charleston and the Argentine tango.
12:59 Jessie Ware? And that was your.
13:00 Speaker 06 No, I love the samba.
13:02 Jessie Ware? Okay.
13:02 Speaker 06 Samba was my thing. I'm obsessed with the samba. I, I love the roots. It's a dance from Angola. You know, and then those kind of roots were taken over to Brazil and then to America and then to the UK. So I love the, the whole story of it. I love the outfits. I love the cultural reference that it has to me being African as well. So it was always a way I could express myself the best.
13:26 Jessie Ware? Did, when you were, when you were younger in South Africa, was that your, always your dance that you wanted to go to?
13:33 Speaker 06 It was the rumba.
13:34 Jessie Ware? Wow.
13:35 Speaker 06 Same, another dance from Angola.
13:36 Jessie Ware? The rumba's the hardest one, by the way.
13:39 Speaker 05 It's the sexiest one, isn't it?
13:41 Jessie Ware? It's really hard to get right.
13:43 Speaker 06 It's, it is hard to get right.
13:44 Speaker 05 It's hard for men, isn't it? More than women.
13:47 Speaker 06 Yes.
13:48 Speaker 05 Because it's the men show off the women, I think.
13:50 Speaker 06 I love that. You think she's going.
13:51 Speaker 05 I watched, you know, I'm a.
13:52 Speaker 06 I love it. You watch every.
13:55 Speaker 05 I should have been one of the presenters, definitely.
13:57 Jessie Ware? Oh my god, you were.
13:58 Speaker 05 Didn't get the call sadly.
13:59 Speaker 06 I didn't get the call. Um, no, I I it's difficult because it's exposing. It's also difficult for men because they have to move in a very flexible sensual way. But they also have to show, uh, I think Shelly does this describes it as a horizontal desire. For a vertical movement. So you have to look at this woman.
14:21 Speaker 05 Horizontal decipher, vertical movement.
14:23 Speaker 06 It's a horizontal movement for a vertical. I don't know which way.
14:26 Speaker 05 Oh, and so is she saying you basically need to look. Yeah, exactly.
14:30 Speaker 06 But you're dancing. So you have to look at them with desire. You have to look at them with like.
14:35 Speaker 05 So it's the it's the eye contact, the face.
14:39 Speaker 06 And the hands and the bodies and when they go away and when they come back and like all of that has meaning. Now to say that to, for example, a rugby player, they'll be like, what?
14:50 Speaker 05 Yeah.
14:51 Speaker 06 Whether you can say that to someone who can act, because they can interpret the story.
14:56 Speaker 05 But it must be fun in Angola.
14:58 Speaker 06 It's apparently they dance in the streets. I wanna go to the streets.
15:01 Speaker 05 Do the rumba in the street. Oh, my god.
15:02 Speaker 06 Just like in Argentina, they do the Argentine tango in the street.
15:06 Speaker 05 Yeah, you see that all the time in Argentina.
15:08 Jessie Ware? This brings me on to your TV show.
15:10 Speaker 06 Okay.
15:11 Jessie Ware? You you you're going back, you're you're doing an odyssey.
15:15 Speaker 06 Yes.
15:15 Jessie Ware? With Reverend Richard Cole.
15:17 Speaker 06 Yes.
15:18 Jessie Ware? An unlikely pairing. Can you explain to me? Well, no, he's wonderful.
15:23 Speaker 06 Yeah.
15:23 Jessie Ware? I didn't realise you were friends.
15:24 Speaker 06 We we are really good friends. So first we met on Strictly.
15:27 Jessie Ware? Yeah.
15:28 Speaker 06 And about ten years ago now. Um, and I love to have deep, meaningful conversation and he's the same. So we could sit and just be in a room and just talk and talk with a bottle of wine.
15:39 Speaker 05 Spiritual stuff.
15:40 Speaker 06 Spiritual life, um, I mean, he's a pastor, he's a reverend, he's gay, he came out as gay.
15:47 Speaker 05 He was in the communards.
15:48 Speaker 06 Yeah, he was, you know, but then he just lived that rock life.
15:51 Speaker 05 Yeah.
15:52 Speaker 06 Um, and I was at a transition where I was, I just came from South, well, Germany, South Africa. He was very interested. He's, um, he's, his husband who passed worked in South Africa. And helped a lot of the the children and the women who had HIV AIDS. So he had a really deep, meaningful.
16:09 Jessie Ware? Um.
16:10 Speaker 06 Connection to South Africa. And then we met again in the jungle and spent three weeks there. And we had those conversa- which we completely. Forgot that you, cause you forget you're on camera. And we just had those meaningful conversations, those spiritual ones, those. Because I'm at a a point where sometimes I'm like, is is God a thing? And like, he was like, yes, oh gee, God is a thing. I'm like, what about Jesus? And so it's those conversations that we would have, just the two of us. And every time he has to convince me, I'm like, but I'm having a bad day. And he's like, yes, God does allow bad days. That's okay.
16:48 Jessie Ware? So on this um, Channel Four documentary, how many episodes is it?
16:52 Speaker 06 Four episodes.
16:53 Jessie Ware? Can you explain to everyone what it's it's about? It's about you returning to South Africa.
16:58 Speaker 06 Yes, so it's among.
16:59 Jessie Ware? With your friend.
16:59 Speaker 06 I'm going back to South Africa with my friend Richard Cole. And I am introducing him to things that I love about the country. But as we're driving, and it's like from from Johannesburg to Cape Town, it's a sixteen hour drive. But then we go Durban, and then we go Porte de Trabeja, it's called. And then we do um, the middle of the country as well. Ah, there are places that I've also never been, like Drakensberg, meeting a boys choir. Seeing them, how disciplined they are and and how tenanted those boys are. Going to the countryside, getting on a helicopter. And just flying over Lesotho, but then standing on the mountain tops.
17:42 Speaker 06 And then finding out the the the culture wars that we used to have as different black peoples, the Zulus. And the Indebellas and the kings and the royal families, things that I didn't even know about. And some of the fights they had and the tensions that they still have today. So all of that was introducing him to that, but also for me to find out more about. Another part of South Africa that I'd never learned. We met some incredible people as well. New dancers that I've never seen, yeah. So we pretty much danced everywhere and the rev hated it. He was like, oh my god, yes. He's like, please don't tell me all South Africans dance. I was like, yep. All South Africans dance. We have some sort of cultural dance.
18:23 Speaker 06 Um, and we danced Zulu dance, Kasa dance, we did the first man, so the Koi San. Their descendants, they have their own cultural and special dance, which we did in the middle of Norway in the desert. And he loved it, cause then he started going, who's your favorite football team? And they were like, Arsenal, so so he had um good conversations with the kids as well. And it was just a beautiful journey, really beautiful journey.
18:50 Speaker 05 Did you eat well?
18:51 Speaker 06 We, oh.
18:53 Speaker 05 I think South Africa, it's a hidden, it's a secret how good the food is there.
18:58 Speaker 06 So.
18:58 Speaker 05 It's so exceptional.
19:00 Speaker 06 So and it's it's mostly meat, yes.
19:03 Speaker 05 But the meat is exceptional. The bri.
19:06 Speaker 06 The bri.
19:06 Speaker 05 Bri, the the the ch- the lamb chops and the steak and.
19:10 Speaker 06 So good.
19:11 Speaker 05 And the and the fish king clip, which you can't get here or butter fish.
19:16 Speaker 06 When I my my husband, he's like, have you ever eaten vegetable in your life? Because because he would get a plate full of meat. And then he's like, oh, I would really like a salad. And then the salad would have meat in it. And then he was like, can I get a side? And then the side would have meat in it. And he's like, no, I just want a tomato. So it's lots of fish, lots of meat. We went to a fish town actually on the show when we actually, where we actually caught clams.
19:42 Speaker 05 Hmm.
19:42 Speaker 06 And we bribed the clam and we had that at the beach. Yeah, literally there with a with a bottom of one.
19:48 Speaker 05 Bri a clam?
19:50 Speaker 06 So basically you catch it and it's not alive anymore. And you baste it with butter, oil, vinegar.
19:58 Speaker 05 Do you take it out the shell? Or you leave it in the shell, okay?
20:01 Speaker 06 You leave it in the shell, you slice it in the in the middle and then you just let let it marinate.
20:07 Speaker 05 We won't let get some on that one. My husband's the worst. Yeah. Barbecueer in the world, but he's a man that thinks that he must barbecue and I'm like, just leave it to me.
20:16 Speaker 06 But barbecue is different from bri.
20:18 Speaker 05 Yeah, bri, explain the difference.
20:20 Speaker 06 It's the fire, so the fire must be flaming hot, like our nandos in South Africa, the nandos here is complete. Like when you go to South Africa, oh, you see just fire from the nandos. So it's that fire and you get the smoke inside of the meat.
20:34 Speaker 05 Okay.
20:35 Speaker 06 A barbecue is like hot, it's hot plate, right?
20:39 Speaker 05 Yeah.
20:39 Speaker 06 So it's not.
20:40 Speaker 05 Well, bri's are even harder to cook on them because you have to be.
20:43 Jessie Ware? Really, really good at it, right?
20:45 Speaker 05 Well, it's not charcoal underneath then, if it's so much.
20:48 Speaker 06 So it is charcoal, but but it's.
20:50 Speaker 05 You cook it earlier?
20:51 Speaker 06 Yeah, you cook it earlier and but the the flame must be going and the meat has to be really close together. So that the juices stay together.
20:59 Speaker 05 Oh wow. And how long would you cook a clam for on the bra- a bryoc clam for?
21:04 Speaker 06 That didn't take long. It took about twenty, twenty five minutes and it was so good. It was so, so, so good.
21:11 Jessie Ware? Can we take it back to Pretoria?
21:12 Speaker 06 Okay.
21:13 Jessie Ware? Where you grew up? Who was round the dinner table? We know one person was round the dinner table, but um who uh who was round the dinner table and what were you eating? What's a memorable dish from your childhood?
21:24 Speaker 06 So mom, dad, so dad, that's why I asked you why I sit here. Dad usually sits here. Mom sits on the other side of the table, opposite. Mutzi, our middle sister, Pimelo and myself, and then my grandma would sit on the other side.
21:39 Speaker 05 Your grandma lived with you?
21:40 Speaker 06 Yeah, she did before she passed.
21:41 Speaker 05 Which one?
21:42 Speaker 06 Uh, on my dad's side. On my mom's side, passed away unfortunately. I think straight after Mutzi was born. So, yeah, but on my dad's.
21:52 Speaker 05 You're close to your grandma?
21:54 Speaker 06 Very close because um me and my sisters have a ten year age difference. I always say that. I always make it longer.
22:03 Speaker 06 Ten years older than me, no. So she's nine years older than me and my other sister's seven years. And so they started dancing nine, ten years before I was around. And so because they were already really good, uh and were travelling overseas and were practising. Um grandma took over, yeah, and took care of me, which is great.
22:25 Speaker 05 Oh, so your mum travelled with them?
22:27 Speaker 06 Yes, because they need the the the person to be with them.
22:30 Speaker 05 Grandma stayed at home?
22:31 Speaker 06 And I stayed with grandma.
22:32 Speaker 05 So important, aren't they, Jessie?
22:36 Jessie Ware? They are. She were helping me this weekend.
22:38 Speaker 06 Yes, amazing. I'm jealous of that.
22:40 Speaker 05 It's so wonderful.
22:41 Speaker 06 I keep calling my mom. I'm like, please, please come. She's like, what's the temperature? And I'm like, it's twelve. She's like, no, don't call me. I'm not coming.
22:49 Speaker 05 You couldn't come today. You wouldn't know there was winter or summer.
22:52 Speaker 06 Every time I call her, she goes, let me see outside. I'll I'll come in July. That's it. She's like, July, August. She goes, then I'm out.
23:01 Speaker 05 It was a memorable dish.
23:03 Speaker 06 A memorable dish, which I think is still and will forever be a memorable dish. It's called seven colours.
23:10 Speaker 05 Mm.
23:11 Speaker 06 So basically, you have to have seven different colours of food on your plate. So we have white, which is bub.
23:19 Speaker 05 What?
23:19 Speaker 06 Bub, which is maize meal. So it's like a powder, uh like foo foo.
23:24 Speaker 05 Is that the same as mealy meal?
23:26 Speaker 06 Yes.
23:27 Speaker 05 Yeah, and yeah.
23:28 Speaker 06 Similar.
23:28 Speaker 05 I only know friends from Zimbabwe who have mealy meal, okay.
23:31 Speaker 06 Yes, so it would be pub and then you'd have your meat.
23:34 Speaker 05 Yeah.
23:35 Speaker 06 Whatever meat. Usually you'd have like steak, chop and vors, but we'll say vors. Um you'll have chakalaka.
23:44 Speaker 05 Chakalaka, that sounds, what is it? Sounds like a dance.
23:49 Speaker 06 So it is, it is, oh my gosh, chopped vegetables. We're talking carrots, garlic, onions. Um with lots of spices, paprika. Oh, it's so good. And and peppers, carrots. And then you add baked beans over.
24:07 Speaker 05 Good god, like tin baked beans.
24:09 Speaker 06 Like tin baked beans. And they have to be baked beans, not kidney beans, not pinto beans, not black beans. It has to be baked beans.
24:16 Speaker 05 Do you fry the onion first?
24:18 Speaker 06 Fry the onion first.
24:20 Speaker 05 Add everything else.
24:20 Speaker 06 Then the garlic, then even the paste, and then you have your.
24:24 Speaker 05 Which paste?
24:25 Speaker 06 The tomato paste.
24:26 Speaker 05 Okay.
24:27 Speaker 06 Then you add more tomatoes.
24:28 Speaker 05 Okay.
24:29 Speaker 06 Then now you're testing me. And then you add, what do you add? Uh carrots. Cause they take a bit of time to cook. Then you can add your peppers.
24:39 Speaker 05 And they chopped up very small?
24:40 Speaker 06 Yeah, so long, long strings, so very long strings. And then you add your spices.
24:46 Speaker 05 Which spices?
24:47 Speaker 06 Cuban.
24:48 Speaker 05 Paprika.
24:49 Speaker 06 Uh curry spice.
24:51 Speaker 05 Curry spice?
24:52 Speaker 06 Yeah, but but it doesn't come out like a, it comes out literally like a relish.
24:56 Speaker 05 Okay.
24:57 Speaker 06 Thick, yeah.
24:58 Speaker 05 Chakalaka.
24:59 Speaker 06 Chakalaka. And then at the end you add the baked beans and then you have to let it cook. But you can also make it spicy. Some people like it spicy. I know Johannes loves it spicy. He once made it and my mouth was like a disaster. It was on fire.
25:12 Speaker 05 Do you like hot?
25:13 Speaker 06 No, well, I used to.
25:15 Speaker 05 Be your Nando's?
25:16 Speaker 06 My Nando's would be peri tama.
25:19 Jessie Ware? What's that?
25:20 Speaker 05 What's that?
25:21 Jessie Ware? Is that for like?
25:22 Speaker 05 Is that a different one?
25:23 Speaker 06 No, it's like sweet, sweet sour.
25:28 Speaker 05 Where'd you get that?
25:29 Jessie Ware? Is that only in South Africa?
25:30 Speaker 06 No, it's here.
25:32 Jessie Ware? Who's had a peritamer here?
25:34 Speaker 06 Guys, you need to come to the peritamer side, it's like.
25:37 Jessie Ware? Is it like off, it like off menu and you're like, I want a peritamer?
25:41 Speaker 06 It's like, it's like not hot, cause I can't do hot anymore, cause in case the baby eats my food. So it's, it's.
25:49 Speaker 05 I mean, I'm on the line.
25:51 Jessie Ware? Peritamer, so it's between medium and hot?
25:55 Speaker 06 It's no, it's between mild and medium.
25:57 Jessie Ware? Okay, because she's a selfless mother that wants to kiss her child.
26:00 Speaker 06 Yes, but when she's not around me, I'm a hot girl. I do hot, but if she's around me, I can't, cause she might.
26:07 Speaker 05 You put lots of chili in.
26:08 Speaker 06 Yeah.
26:09 Jessie Ware? Now, are we allowed to say congratulations?
26:11 Speaker 06 Yes, you are.
26:12 Jessie Ware? Congratulations. Thank you very much. How are you feeling?
26:15 Speaker 06 Exhausted.
26:16 Jessie Ware? Oh babe.
26:17 Speaker 06 Exhausted.
26:18 Speaker 05 It's hard the first three months.
26:19 Speaker 06 The first three months felt like, like it felt like I signed up for London Marathon.
26:27 Jessie Ware? Oh babe.
26:27 Speaker 06 I would wake up and I'd have to call my agent, I'm like, I just can't do the job anymore, I'm so exhausted. I'm, I, I would just be exhausted and then I was nauseous, um, I was in the car, I was vomiting, it was just like. Yeah, it was a tough one.
26:44 Jessie Ware? Car sickness is horrendous with um, pregnancy, I found that.
26:48 Speaker 06 And, and you can't, you also can't tell anyone, right? So when you're vomiting, people think you're just hungover. Or like, oh yeah, did you have a good night last night? I'm like, no, and I can't tell you why I feel sick. Um, yeah, so it, it was really, really tough, but I got over it now.
27:05 Jessie Ware? When are you due?
27:06 Speaker 06 November, so I have to beg my mom to come.
27:08 Jessie Ware? Long.
27:09 Speaker 06 No, not long, so six months.
27:11 Jessie Ware? Yeah.
27:12 Speaker 06 Yeah.
27:12 Jessie Ware? How old's your little girl?
27:14 Speaker 06 She's two, two and a half.
27:15 Jessie Ware? So it's perfect, really, timing.
27:17 Speaker 06 Yeah, and she understands, we kind of let her know, she, she walks past me and she just to my belly, she goes, hi baby. And then she walks every morning, she's like, I'm like, you know what's inside, so you can't jump on mommy. Cause I'm like that type of mom, I'll do like strictly stuff, I'll throw it in the air, so she can jump on me or we wrestle. And I had to completely stop all of that. And so now she goes, baby's in mama's belly. And then she lets me go.
27:44 Jessie Ware? She could dance her.
27:47 Speaker 06 Yes, against my wishes.
27:49 Jessie Ware? Oh no. Well, I mean, it's in. Well, I think you said it.
27:53 Speaker 05 It would be hard to avoid it with both dancers.
27:56 Speaker 06 Yes, but all four. So me, my sister, her husband and my husband are all professional dancers. With dance schools, both on television.
28:08 Speaker 05 Have you got a dance school now?
28:09 Speaker 06 Yes, so I have a dance school in Park Royal, the O T and Marius Dance School.
28:14 Jessie Ware? And I've, and I've rehearsed there.
28:16 Speaker 06 Yeah.
28:17 Jessie Ware? Yeah, I did rehearsals for my music video there.
28:19 Speaker 06 Yeah.
28:19 Jessie Ware? Yeah, it's a great.
28:20 Speaker 06 We always, we always, my husband has cameras and she goes, you know, this is, I'm like, yes. Why didn't you tell me? I wanted to meet her.
28:28 Jessie Ware? It's a great, it's a great space.
28:30 Speaker 06 Thank you, thank you. Now, we've had it for six years now. We really love it. We got it actually during, while I was on Strictly. It was nice and we can use that and now they've continued to use it. But we have artists come over and rehearse because of the peace and quiet. And it's like in the middle of an industrial area. And then we have our kids who are competitive kids.
28:51 Speaker 05 When you were dancing on Strictly.
28:53 Speaker 06 Yeah.
28:53 Speaker 05 Every week, do you have to change your diet to keep going because the stamina you need?
28:59 Speaker 06 No, I think.
29:00 Speaker 05 Or do you lose weight whenever you're?
29:01 Speaker 06 You're gonna lose weight anyway, but it's not even a, a conscious thing. I think the show has so much pressure to it. That you eat what you can and, and.
29:14 Jessie Ware? And when you can.
29:15 Speaker 06 And when you can, genuinely, because you're running around during the week when you're with your pro, great. Cause they allocate eating times and then you could eat whatever. Everyone was really relaxed about it. But on show days, it, it does get quite hectic where you have an incredible team of runners that go, you haven't had lunch, you haven't had dinner. Or runners who like follow you with your, with your shoes and dresses and they're like, here's a snack, orange or a fruit.
29:41 Speaker 05 Cause you've got to keep your energy up.
29:42 Speaker 06 You've got to keep your energy up, yeah.
29:44 Speaker 05 I, I, just being in the audience, I needed to keep my energy up. I'm telling you, it's a bloody long day.
29:49 Speaker 06 It's so long.
29:50 Speaker 05 Oh my god. I went to the one where you sang.
29:53 Speaker 06 Hmm.
29:54 Speaker 05 Um, which was kind of, I took my best friend, it was the greatest day of her life.
29:58 Speaker 06 Oh.
29:59 Speaker 05 Cause she met everybody and we met all the dancers. Yeah, yeah, it was wonderful.
30:04 Jessie Ware? I'm gonna get the food together.
30:05 Speaker 06 Okay.
30:06 Jessie Ware? We're having, have you gone on?
30:09 Speaker 05 Off anything since being pregnant.
30:11 Speaker 06 No, why you ask me now?
30:14 Speaker 05 I'm worried that I'm gonna give you this.
30:20 Speaker 06 Uh cauliflower.
30:21 Speaker 05 Oh, I'm not feeding you cauliflower, thank god.
30:23 Speaker 06 That's it.
30:24 Speaker 05 God, that's an interesting one to go off.
30:26 Speaker 06 I can't stand it, the smell.
30:29 Speaker 05 Yeah, I understand the smell is a funny one.
30:32 Speaker 06 The smell is cauliflower.
30:33 Speaker 05 Okay, there's no cauliflower in sight, babe. Thank god for that, right.
30:41 Speaker 06 Yeah, so how was it?
30:43 Speaker 05 I want, so d- does Johannes cook for you?
30:47 Speaker 06 He did once when we had.
30:48 Speaker 05 He did once. He goes to a takeaway, when he was on, he told us he goes, Jessie, didn't he go to a Turkish takeaway every day, Johannes?
30:58 Speaker 06 Filipino.
30:59 Speaker 05 Filipino takeaway every day.
31:01 Speaker 06 Because if he was to cook South African food, it genuinely does take long.
31:06 Speaker 05 Yeah.
31:06 Speaker 06 But to be honest, I also like takeaway. I think probably because him and I, we didn't grow up in a.
31:13 Speaker 06 Like, we didn't have all of these things around us, and so now we're like free to just run, yeah, it's like kids in a candy store.
31:21 Speaker 05 Yeah.
31:21 Speaker 06 So we eat, I also, I'm bad at takeaway, I love a Wingstop.
31:26 Speaker 05 A what?
31:26 Speaker 06 Wingstop.
31:27 Speaker 05 What's Wingstop?
31:30 Speaker 06 I'm obsessed with you two because everything I say, you're both like, what's that?
31:35 Speaker 05 I don't know what.
31:36 Speaker 06 What you mean, Peritama? What do you mean Wingstop? Wingstop.
31:40 Speaker 05 Where is Wingstop?
31:42 Speaker 06 It's everywhere.
31:43 Speaker 05 It's in Berkshire?
31:44 Speaker 06 It's in Berkshire.
31:45 Speaker 05 Good.
31:46 Speaker 06 It is fried chicken but different flavors, so you'll get like a spicy mango. Or you'll get like a really, really, really hot but but fruit flavors. Like six different flavors, you can get.
31:57 Speaker 05 And is it just the wings?
31:59 Speaker 06 You can get wings, you can get tenders, you can get little chicken bites, you can get different types of fries. Because you're eating healthy food in the kitchen.
32:09 Speaker 05 But I have to admit that I think Kentucky Fried Chicken is the most delicious thing on the.
32:14 Speaker 06 Wow.
32:15 Speaker 05 Yeah.
32:15 Speaker 06 You have not tried Wingstop.
32:17 Speaker 05 I'm gonna try Wingstop immediately tonight.
32:20 Speaker 06 Uh you have to, it is so good.
32:22 Speaker 05 What other takeaways do you like?
32:24 Speaker 06 I I'm very specific. So Nando's, I would, I don't eat anything, anything. I don't, I don't like, and no, sorry, not Nando's, McDonald's. I can't eat anything else except the McSpicy chicken. That's the only thing I can eat at McDonald's.
32:39 Speaker 05 Okay.
32:41 Speaker 06 Uh, Nando's, it has to be a double chicken wrap, peri-tama or hot.
32:46 Speaker 05 Okay.
32:46 Speaker 06 When the baby's not around, with peri fries.
32:49 Speaker 05 Okay.
32:49 Speaker 06 Five Guys, it's a small cheeseburger.
32:51 Speaker 05 Right.
32:52 Speaker 06 With pickles and grilled onions.
32:54 Speaker 05 Do you cook as well as order takeaway?
32:57 Speaker 06 So much, yes, I know it sounds like.
33:03 Speaker 05 If we came for dinner, what's your best dish?
33:05 Speaker 06 Oh, I'd make you a South African dish.
33:07 Speaker 05 Okay.
33:07 Speaker 06 But then I'd make a different type of chicken. So I maybe make you butter, butter garlic chicken.
33:13 Speaker 05 Butter garlic.
33:14 Speaker 06 Yeah, which is like loads of garlic, loads of butter. It's, it's a nice sauce as well.
33:20 Speaker 05 Can you recommend a good South African cookbook?
33:23 Speaker 06 Hmm, all of them. Can you tell I don't need a South African cookbook?
33:27 Speaker 05 No, because you know it.
33:29 Speaker 06 Yes.
33:29 Speaker 05 You know it. Did your mum teach you?
33:32 Speaker 06 No, she refuses. She's, my mum is such a good cook. Oh my god, when, when I just had the baby. And she cooks really healthy stuff. So I was able, like, I felt warm. You know when you have soups that make you warm inside?
33:46 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
33:47 Speaker 06 Uh, but I was like, could you teach me? She said, no.
33:49 Speaker 05 Oh.
33:52 Speaker 06 Yeah, she just went, no, you make your own recipes. You figure it out. You go by your soul. I was like, mum, that doesn't help me.
33:59 Speaker 05 So you're cooking soul food every day?
34:01 Speaker 06 Every day. So I would make you that. I'd then make you some chakalaka, cause you probably.
34:06 Speaker 05 I'm dying for chakalaka now.
34:08 Speaker 06 I'd make you, I'd make you seven colours.
34:10 Speaker 05 Yeah.
34:10 Speaker 06 So we'd have a potato salad, you'd have your beetroot, you'd have your butternut, you'd have your corn, you would, it would be a feast. It would be a feast.
34:20 Speaker 05 What is celebration? If you're having a celebration and say it's a christening or a wedding. Big banquets, does everyone in your village or your neighbourhood come? So it's not just close friends?
34:33 Speaker 06 No.
34:33 Speaker 05 It's everyone, open to everyone?
34:35 Speaker 06 Our wedding had two hundred people invited, only friends.
34:41 Speaker 05 Yeah.
34:41 Speaker 06 Four hundred and fifty people were at our wedding.
34:44 Speaker 05 Where was the wedding?
34:45 Jessie Ware? Did they just turn up?
34:46 Speaker 06 They just, so like you, I would invite you and you'd, I'd be like, oh, mom is your plus one. But mom's like, yeah, but I can't leave my best friend. That would have been nice. She wouldn't have been like, and then the best friend would be like, yeah, but I can't leave my husband. Like I have, I go over with my husband and then the husband would be like, but what about the kids? So then it's your best friends and the kids and that, yeah, it generally.
35:05 Jessie Ware? A bride and groom just really resentful.
35:07 Speaker 06 No, so it's a wedding, basically. It's almost like a Indian, kind of the Indian way where you're feeding the village, you know, you're feeding. So when we cook, even if it's for two hundred, you just say, ah, you, you know.
35:23 Speaker 05 Do people bring along food as well?
35:25 Speaker 06 No, and people come hungry.
35:28 Speaker 05 Oh, my god.
35:29 Speaker 06 They don't, they come on empty stomachs. Sometimes they come with lunchboxes.
35:33 Speaker 05 Oh, my goodness. Tupperware to take.
35:36 Speaker 06 So we have these little cakes, we call them the gugu. And at every wedding, if like, of course, the, the family, close family and the ones that are invited, they would have the wedding cake. Then you order another cake, just in case the distant family, we're talking the cousins, they would have that cake. But then the guests of the guests, they would have the gugu. And they would just take the gugu in a plastic bag or in a lunch, a tin.
36:00 Speaker 05 So people bring their tupperware with them?
36:02 Speaker 06 Bring their tupperware with them, yeah.
36:03 Speaker 05 Where was your wedding?
36:04 Speaker 06 It was in our house, actually, where, in Pretoria, where we live, cause we've got, it's like a plot, uh, it's a big garden. And so we just thought, well, with dancers, we can't really afford getting a venue and it's silly and the house is here. And we'll always have that memory. So we just did it in the front garden.
36:22 Speaker 05 And music, was there any music?
36:24 Speaker 06 Yes, so South Africa, we've got loads of different musics. It was, I mean, we had to mix it. So there was South African music, which is like Kuwaito, we love R and B, uh, we had some Latin.
36:37 Speaker 05 What is Kuwaito?
36:38 Speaker 06 Kuwaito is like township music. That is very big in South Africa.
36:44 Speaker 05 Did any of your family come from township?
36:47 Speaker 06 Yeah, all of, all of the family. We grew up in a township and then later moved out into the suburbs. Mabupani.
36:54 Speaker 05 Okay.
37:03 Speaker 00 State Fair food is getting smaller and pricier. We'll have room for fried cookies. Okay, you never overspend on food. What's your deal?
37:11 Speaker 02 What's his deal? He went to Metro and got $450 in value on the new Samsung Galaxy A37 5G for free and no activation fees.
37:19 Speaker 00 Free phone? Oh, sign me up.
37:22 Speaker 02 Get that more for your money feeling, only on Metro by T-Mobile.
37:25 Speaker 03 Bring your number and activate $40 period plan. $450 based on device discount. Wait for activation fee. Not available with Metro T-Mobile in the past 180 days.
37:38 Jessie Ware? We have, Otie, we have Alison Roman's brilliant recipe that I seem to have cocked up today by making the chicken dry. It's her slow roasted chicken with tomatoes and vinegar and butter and fennel and oregano. And I don't know why it's fricking dry, but whatever. Enjoy it, yeah?
37:54 Speaker 06 Do not worry.
37:55 Jessie Ware? Anyway, try and find the most moist of it.
37:58 Speaker 06 Maybe it was meant to be dry.
37:59 Jessie Ware? Maybe it wasn't, Otie, and I'm pissed off.
38:02 Speaker 05 Darling, that's not enough.
38:04 Jessie Ware? Yeah, she want dry chicken, doesn't she?
38:05 Speaker 06 I'm just taking the sauce because you said it's dry, so I'm moistening it up.
38:09 Jessie Ware? Can you get a bit of the tomato?
38:10 Speaker 06 Okay, and I like the bone.
38:12 Speaker 05 You want the bone?
38:13 Jessie Ware? Okay, get that skin.
38:14 Speaker 06 I like the bones. I got the skin.
38:15 Jessie Ware? Yeah, great. Get a bit of that tomato. Would you like some salad and beans?
38:20 Speaker 06 Yes, I would love salad. It's probably dry at all.
38:23 Jessie Ware? Oh babe, it's, listen, listen, I can see it's fucking dry, but you're so sweet.
38:30 Speaker 06 I try.
38:31 Jessie Ware? Talking about going back to when you were younger and the amount of effort it took probably for your mum and dad to support your sister and you to go and be...
38:41 Speaker 06 Three sisters.
38:42 Jessie Ware? Oh, so your other sister danced too?
38:44 Speaker 06 Yeah, and she did Boreum. We did Letter, she did Boreum.
38:47 Jessie Ware? Was that completely inconvenient that she was doing a completely different one because she would have different teachers or?
38:53 Speaker 06 No, it was, I think it was... No, I think they wanted that. She did, she did ten dance. Because she just didn't want to compete against her own sister because they're so similar ages. They have to compete against each other. She didn't like the competitiveness of all of it. Um, and just the tension that creates in a family. Like, dance families have a lot of tension in them when you're competing against each other. And she didn't like that. And she was like, I'll just do the ballroom. Let her do the Latin.
39:22 Jessie Ware? But your mum, your mum and dad weren't, were they dancers?
39:25 Speaker 06 No.
39:25 Jessie Ware? So they just had this love for it?
39:27 Speaker 06 No.
39:27 Jessie Ware? And it was a way out of the, like.
39:29 Speaker 06 No, um, Mutzi had the love for it.
39:32 Jessie Ware? Okay.
39:32 Speaker 06 Mutzi was the one who was like, I want to dance, um, and I love it. And they were like, well, if you're all the sisters doing it, you have to do it too.
39:41 Jessie Ware? Because I can't be everywhere all at the same time.
39:43 Speaker 06 Exactly. And the other one, Pemelo, she didn't really have something that she was obsessed with. So they're like, okay, you'll be obsessed with this as well. So, yeah, um, and then my mom just became obsessed with it because she just. All she wanted to do was protect her little three blood kids. And so she, she was basically our umbrella, you know, she was like, I'm just gonna protect you guys until the end.
40:08 Jessie Ware? Protecting, I'm just wondering, regarding, regarding the dance schools that you're in, was it black? Um, only black kids that you were allowed to dance with?
40:17 Speaker 06 Yeah, uh, by then the rules weren't like that, but it was just the political stance of the country. So, yeah, we, we were, we did go to white schools, uh, but the dance school was in a black area. It was for black kids. Because we wanted to, well, my mom really wanted to uplift the township. Um, and give kids something to think about and give us, you know, we didn't have high performing centers. We didn't have after school care. So dance was their little sanctuary.
40:47 Jessie Ware? But you were, were you encouraged, apartheid had finished.
40:52 Speaker 06 Yeah, by then, it had finished.
40:54 Jessie Ware? But, but it still kind of pervades society, yeah.
40:57 Speaker 06 So we would be in the, the townships, be in the dance school, live there. And then the competitions were very much white and they were with white judges in white.
41:07 Jessie Ware? And did you have mixed couples, black and white?
41:11 Speaker 06 We could dance together. You mean, could we dance together? Yeah, you could totally dance together. I'm like, that ended. Already, I would say in the eighties, it was slowly started to die out. But the mentality is something that you cannot kill, you know, it's something that still lives on today. Um, but yeah, so my mom wanted to protect all the kids. She wanted to make sure that the judging systems were fair, she wanted to make sure that the policies that they were creating were fair. The election processes were fair, so she was on top of all of it, and not just her, but it was a group of moms. As well, who were also protecting their kids, so they felt really passionate about that.
41:52 Jessie Ware? She sounds amazing.
41:53 Speaker 06 Yeah, and if you meet her, she's so quiet, she's so quiet and she's so, no, it's okay, but um, she's a strong woman. No, never danced before, never danced before.
42:04 Jessie Ware? So what was her job?
42:05 Speaker 06 Mom.
42:07 Jessie Ware? So she didn't work.
42:07 Speaker 06 Oh, like work, no, no, no, she, she, she, she had a nursery and she was a school principal for that. Then she had a taxi company, then she had a flower business.
42:18 Jessie Ware? Oh my god.
42:18 Speaker 06 She had a, a sewing business and, but now she's like, now she's grandma and she still has the nursery.
42:27 Jessie Ware? She must be very proud of you or.
42:29 Speaker 06 Extremely proud, she's extremely proud and um. I call them every day, I make sure that I talk to them every single day. Um, and so she just is like, I can't believe the life that you're living, I just can't, or, or she'll be. Just paging through the show and she goes, I saw you on television and everybody's calling me that you're now in Ireland and I'm like, yeah. I'm in Ireland and so she's just really proud, and my dad as well, very, very proud.
42:55 Jessie Ware? So when you started coming over to Blackpool for the competitions, how old were you?
43:00 Speaker 06 Eleven.
43:01 Jessie Ware? Well. So like, but your first plane trip to, where was your first plane trip?
43:06 Speaker 06 Um, I was already competing competitively when I was nine, so that would, yeah, I was, yeah, they started.
43:13 Jessie Ware? How old were you in?
43:14 Speaker 06 Four.
43:16 Speaker 06 Yeah, four. I don't know, cause I look at my daughter now and I think I was a psychopath as a baby because. Because I look at her and I'm like, she's so small. And she's she's turning three this year, so it means I started like next year dancing competitively. And I asked my sisters, I'm like, were you guys lying to me? Like, did you just make up that number? Because I don't know, right? They were like, yeah, you were four, we knew.
43:43 Speaker 05 But but you have to be very disciplined. We were talking about Jessie's children and. Her husband wants the two boys to go to do jujitsu because he says the discipline you have to. But I can't imagine you disciplining your children to compete at four.
43:57 Speaker 06 I don't think.
43:59 Speaker 05 No, no, no, but I can't imagine being able to discipline the children.
44:06 Speaker 06 That no one had to discipline me. I wanted it. I literally would sit my family down. On a Sunday, like we say after dinner, and I'm like, right, girls.
44:14 Jessie Ware? It's showtime.
44:15 Speaker 06 Today, your practice was awful.
44:19 Speaker 06 I know, I was three, four, and I'd be like, no, um, you're, the way you present yourself is not good enough. You're not strong enough. You need to do your arms like this and like this and move your hips like this. And then my mom was like, do you wanna try? I was like, try. I'm gonna be amazing at this. And that's how it happened. And they were like, we'll find you a partner, let's go. And then I was like, okay, come to practice, come to practice. And I was go, go, go.
44:43 Jessie Ware? And they didn't work hard enough, did you?
44:45 Speaker 06 And yeah, I guess they didn't. And then I found another one and he did, and then that's when we started.
44:51 Jessie Ware? You said, sorry, four-year-old, you're not working hard enough. I need a new partner.
44:56 Speaker 06 Cause he'd come and he'd be like, I've got a stomach.
45:01 Speaker 06 He's always got excuses and I wanna win. And yeah, so I was just, oh, honestly, that's what I'm telling you. I was crazy as a child.
45:09 Speaker 05 Did you ever come across Johannes in?
45:11 Speaker 06 Yeah, we competed our whole life against each other, our whole life.
45:15 Speaker 05 But you never partnered him?
45:17 Speaker 06 I was supposed to.
45:18 Speaker 05 Okay.
45:19 Speaker 06 We were supposed to partner, we had a tryout and he was really good, but I was at the point in my life where I had to choose between dancing, I I was already South African champ for ten times at that point. And yeah.
45:34 Speaker 05 So how old were you at this age?
45:35 Speaker 06 I was twenty, I was twenty.
45:39 Speaker 05 Ten times.
45:40 Speaker 06 Yeah, I started competing when I was ten in South Africa and um and so the the choices were be an engineer, so I studied civil engineering, um.
45:52 Speaker 05 At uni?
45:53 Speaker 06 Yeah, at university and I was gonna start working, dance with Jojo and con- continue competing in South Africa, or leave and go overseas.
46:03 Speaker 05 And?
46:04 Speaker 06 And I left and I went overseas.
46:05 Speaker 05 Does your name mean anything?
46:07 Speaker 06 Yeah, my name means, so I have to start with my older sister.
46:11 Speaker 05 With the the to- the oldest one.
46:12 Speaker 06 Mutzi means, is Mutzhezi her full name?
46:16 Speaker 05 Yeah.
46:16 Speaker 06 Which is the one you can rely on.
46:18 Speaker 05 Okay.
46:19 Jessie Ware? Is that correct?
46:20 Speaker 06 Yes, but like now we're all kind of the same age and so when she gives us advice, we're like, stop.
46:25 Speaker 05 Yeah.
46:26 Speaker 06 Like, stop. Uh but yeah, she definitely is like the older sister, the the calm one.
46:32 Speaker 05 Yeah.
46:32 Speaker 06 And then the middle sister, sorry, the middle sister is called Pimelo, which means the protector. So when Mutzi would get bullied at school, Pimela would come to her school and like fight all the bullies off.
46:44 Speaker 05 Okay.
46:45 Speaker 06 And then the last one is Utlila, which means she has arrived.
46:48 Jessie Ware? Oh.
46:50 Speaker 06 Now you get it. Yeah, I do get it.
46:52 Speaker 05 Born to it then.
46:53 Speaker 06 Yeah, I was like, I am here. Um yeah, so they, my my parents literally were like, yeah, we're gonna name you guys in that way. And I was like, but why did you like my name? Then I would just really liked it.
47:06 Speaker 05 So what language is it in?
47:07 Speaker 06 Sichuan.
47:08 Speaker 05 Sichuan.
47:09 Speaker 06 Yeah.
47:09 Speaker 05 And can you speak Sichuan?
47:10 Speaker 06 Yeah, I only speak Sichuan. So it's like a language that natively comes from Botswana. So my family and heritage would be from Botswana. Yeah.
47:20 Jessie Ware? Mum, what? That looks delicious.
47:22 Speaker 05 Well, um, yeah, I think it's gonna fall apart.
47:24 Jessie Ware? That's okay.
47:24 Speaker 05 It's fine.
47:25 Jessie Ware? Um. Doesn't look dry like my chickens, so go on.
47:28 Speaker 05 Definitely not dry.
47:29 Jessie Ware? Go on.
47:29 Speaker 05 Um, it's a mango cheesecake.
47:31 Speaker 06 Oh, I love.
47:32 Speaker 05 Let's, and passion fruit, and there's some mango and passion fruit coulis to add on the top.
47:37 Speaker 06 I've never had that before.
47:38 Speaker 05 Oh, M and S, darling.
47:42 Speaker 06 So, so I put it over or I drink this?
47:44 Jessie Ware? Like, you drizzle it.
47:46 Speaker 06 Okay, okay.
47:47 Speaker 05 Shall I give you some?
47:49 Speaker 06 Yes, please. A lot of some.
47:50 Jessie Ware? Okay, oh, you've got a sweet tooth?
47:52 Speaker 06 I've got a very big sweet tooth. I mean, not since the baby, but we're gonna try.
47:56 Jessie Ware? Okay, well, see how you go.
47:58 Speaker 06 Yeah.
47:58 Jessie Ware? Um, last supper, O T.
48:01 Speaker 06 Hmm.
48:02 Jessie Ware? Starter, main, pudding, drink of choice.
48:05 Speaker 06 Oh, God. Oh, no. Can I go the other way around?
48:09 Jessie Ware? Yeah, sure.
48:10 Speaker 06 Dessert?
48:11 Jessie Ware? Yeah.
48:12 Speaker 06 I'll go a m- milk, milk tart, do you know, a milk tart.
48:16 Jessie Ware? Hmm, explain, like, what kind of milk tart? Where am I finding it? Can I find it in the UK?
48:22 Speaker 06 Yeah, no, a peppermint milk tart.
48:25 Jessie Ware? Oh, peppermint milk tart?
48:27 Speaker 06 It's milk, it's.
48:28 Jessie Ware? Peppermint, wow.
48:29 Speaker 06 Yeah, and the base is tennis biscuits, then it is.
48:33 Jessie Ware? Which biscuits?
48:34 Speaker 06 Tennis biscuits.
48:35 Jessie Ware? What are they?
48:36 Speaker 06 Stop it!
48:37 Jessie Ware? Does anyone else know what a tennis biscuit is? It's like a digestive.
48:40 Speaker 06 Where on earth am I? I wanna live your life. You've never eaten a tennis biscuit?
48:47 Jessie Ware? No, what's a tennis biscuit?
48:49 Speaker 06 It's a, it's a biscuit for tennis players.
48:51 Jessie Ware? I'm joking. I'm Googling this.
48:54 Speaker 06 It's like a square biscuit. It is, I think it's made by bakers. You do get it here in the UK, cause my daughter's obsessed with it. And it's coconut flavoured.
49:02 Jessie Ware? What?
49:03 Speaker 06 But not like, obviously coconut.
49:05 Jessie Ware? Never seen these, but I like the packaging. Are they kind of like milky malted milk? Are they like the malted?
49:11 Speaker 06 No, it's like a less intense digestive.
49:15 Jessie Ware? Okay.
49:16 Speaker 06 But it's really nice. It's almost like a.
49:18 Jessie Ware? It's very retro packaging.
49:19 Speaker 06 Yeah, that, that like, almost like a much classier, which other ones you, you get at the hotel?
49:25 Jessie Ware? Leaving it's.
49:26 Speaker 06 No.
49:26 Jessie Ware? No, Lotus. Lotus, the ones you get in the hairdresser.
49:30 Speaker 06 Yeah.
49:30 Jessie Ware? We love them.
49:31 Speaker 06 But like a much classier one.
49:34 Jessie Ware? Wow.
49:35 Speaker 06 So that would be the base with butter.
49:37 Jessie Ware? Where was the first time that you had a tennis biscuit? Is it in South Africa?
49:42 Speaker 06 Maybe in my mother's womb.
49:44 Jessie Ware? So is it South, is it a South African thing?
49:46 Speaker 06 Yes, yes.
49:47 Jessie Ware? Because you know we love anchivat in this house.
49:50 Speaker 05 Do you know anchivat?
49:51 Jessie Ware? Hex anchivat.
49:52 Speaker 06 No.
49:52 Jessie Ware? Anchovy spread.
49:54 Speaker 06 Oh no, I've never had that.
49:56 Speaker 05 I've just paid nineteen pounds to get two small things.
49:58 Speaker 06 That's, that's daylight robbery.
50:00 Jessie Ware? From South Africa, it's a South African fish paste.
50:03 Speaker 06 No, I've not had that.
50:04 Jessie Ware? Okay, well, you take the anchivat and I'll take the tennis.
50:08 Speaker 06 You have to get the tennis biscuit.
50:09 Jessie Ware? Okay, so you're going tennis biscuit base.
50:11 Speaker 06 Yeah, and then you get buttercream or condensed milk.
50:14 Jessie Ware? Yum.
50:15 Speaker 06 And you boil that.
50:16 Jessie Ware? Yeah.
50:17 Speaker 06 Uh, until it's really mixed together. And then you put it over the tennis biscuits and then you put it in the freezer for about three, four hours. And then you spread the, the peppermint crisp. You know peppermint crisp? Chocolate?
50:30 Jessie Ware? Oh yeah, okay, like, n- not like an after age, no.
50:34 Speaker 06 But it is like an after age.
50:35 Jessie Ware? Okay.
50:35 Speaker 06 But it's proper like, it's like crunchy, but inside it's peppermint.
50:39 Jessie Ware? Oh.
50:40 Speaker 06 Yeah.
50:40 Jessie Ware? Can you get them in the UK?
50:42 Speaker 06 Yes.
50:43 Speaker 05 Has anyone had a peppermint crisp here?
50:45 Jessie Ware? Yeah. Okay, fine, okay. Producer Alexandra.
50:47 Speaker 06 You need to come hang with me.
50:49 Jessie Ware? Okay.
50:49 Speaker 06 You all probably get diabetes, but we'll be fine.
50:52 Jessie Ware? So this is, okay.
50:53 Speaker 06 And then you put that in the, so it's a non-bake dessert.
50:57 Jessie Ware? Okay.
50:57 Speaker 06 Or you can put cinnamon.
50:59 Jessie Ware? This is a non-bake dessert as well.
51:01 Speaker 06 So, so then you can put cinnamon over and it's divided. It's like a cheesecake.
51:07 Jessie Ware? Uh, how, how lucky that we're doing a cheesecake today. This is delicious, Mum.
51:10 Speaker 05 Do you like it?
51:11 Jessie Ware? Yeah.
51:12 Speaker 06 Where did you get the idea of the mango?
51:14 Speaker 05 It was a recipe on Marks and Spencer's website.
51:17 Speaker 06 A Marks and Spencer's website. And what's in the base?
51:20 Speaker 05 Ginger nut biscuit.
51:21 Speaker 06 Yeah.
51:23 Jessie Ware? Okay, so we forgot you put.
51:25 Speaker 06 At the moment, I'm obsessed with lasagna.
51:29 Jessie Ware? There's nothing quite like a good lasagna.
51:32 Speaker 06 But it has to be in an Italian place with an Italian chef.
51:38 Jessie Ware? Okay.
51:39 Speaker 06 And you can taste when it's been like in the pot for hours and it's been.
51:45 Jessie Ware? Do you like that?
51:46 Speaker 06 Love it.
51:47 Jessie Ware? Do you like it wet or quite dry?
51:49 Speaker 06 Wet.
51:50 Jessie Ware? Oozing.
51:51 Speaker 06 Like the cheese, like when you.
51:53 Jessie Ware? Your children don't like it. I like it, Oozy.
51:56 Speaker 06 I love it. Like when you put the fork, it goes. Yeah, it just comes apart. Love that.
52:02 Jessie Ware? Where have you had your best lasagna recently?
52:05 Speaker 06 I don't know the name of the hospital, the the restaurant, but it is a rest, it is, it's in Covent Gardens. Do you know where the Hippodrome Casino is, like Magic Mike? If you cross the road.
52:18 Jessie Ware? Yeah.
52:19 Speaker 06 There's a little Italian there, little, like everyone's like a little Italian family. Um, I don't know the name, but it is, it was so good. I got two.
52:30 Jessie Ware? Good for you. Right.
52:32 Speaker 06 I got two.
52:33 Jessie Ware? They're small portions, you know, you know.
52:35 Speaker 06 It's like it's me and the baby. The baby likes lasagna. I never though eat lasagna. I never eat Italian food, except if I'm in Italy. Because I don't know where to go, right? So I feel like anywhere you go in Italy, the food will be great. But here's sort of hit and miss. But I was in that restaurant and I did not want to leave. It was stunning.
52:57 Jessie Ware? Okay, so we've got a cheesecake, we've got, we've got a lasagna. Where's the starter? What's the drink?
53:03 Speaker 06 The the starter, can I go for croquettes?
53:06 Jessie Ware? Yeah.
53:06 Speaker 06 Is that weird?
53:07 Jessie Ware? No. What's that? Croquettes?
53:09 Speaker 06 Oh, what sauce?
53:10 Jessie Ware? Ham and cheese?
53:11 Speaker 06 No, just cheese.
53:12 Jessie Ware? Where are you having them? In Spain?
53:14 Speaker 06 I'm having them in Greece with truffle over.
53:17 Jessie Ware? Where were you fancy pants? Where did you have these? Mykonos or somewhere?
53:21 Speaker 06 No, in Athens. And they were very affordable.
53:25 Speaker 05 Mmm.
53:26 Speaker 06 It was right by the beach.
53:27 Speaker 05 They love a croquette, don't they?
53:29 Speaker 06 Oh, it was like three cheese croquettes.
53:32 Speaker 05 Delicious.
53:33 Speaker 06 And over it, they had um a layer of truffle and then a rounded honey.
53:40 Speaker 05 It's the honey and cheese that just does it for me. Delish.
53:45 Speaker 06 I was in heaven.
53:46 Speaker 05 If you were having a dinner party, who would you like to come, dead or alive?
53:51 Speaker 06 Oh, gosh. Beyonce.
53:54 Speaker 05 Beyonce. Does she wiggle her bum well?
53:57 Speaker 06 She so well. She's the queen of bum wiggling.
54:00 Speaker 05 She's a great dancer.
54:02 Speaker 06 She's a great dancer. It has to be Beyonce.
54:04 Speaker 05 Expression.
54:04 Speaker 06 It's a yeah, no, it's not. Uh but I get you, mom. For you, we'll say, yes, it is.
54:10 Speaker 05 But she did go to Africa to learn it, didn't she?
54:13 Speaker 06 Yeah, she went to like Gambia or Ghana.
54:16 Speaker 05 Yeah.
54:16 Speaker 06 I think so, but then she brought South Africans over to.
54:19 Speaker 05 Oh, did she?
54:22 Speaker 06 Yes, South Africa, Zimbabwe, in her videos. So she was really good. So I would have Beyonce.
54:27 Speaker 05 Yeah.
54:29 Speaker 06 I would have Michelle Obama.
54:31 Speaker 05 Hmm, yeah.
54:31 Speaker 06 As well. I'd have Alison Hammond, of course.
54:37 Speaker 06 Yes, how many am I allowed?
54:38 Speaker 05 You can have it all. Yeah. All women or any men?
54:41 Speaker 06 All women.
54:41 Speaker 05 Okay, you're not having any men?
54:43 Speaker 06 No, I married one. I'm fine.
54:46 Speaker 06 No man. I'd have Jessie.
54:48 Speaker 05 Thank you.
54:48 Speaker 06 For some dried chicken.
54:52 Speaker 06 We're all need to have some dried chicken once in our life with some tomato.
54:56 Speaker 05 I'm so heartbroken.
54:57 Speaker 06 Just for the vibes.
54:58 Speaker 05 I'm heartbroken. Yeah, you bring your curry.
55:01 Speaker 06 Who likes bone? I'm like, we're bringing, and please bring the chicken.
55:06 Speaker 05 I'm I'm devastated. Oh, see, you see, I'd have Nelson Mandela at mine.
55:10 Speaker 06 Nelson Mandela.
55:12 Speaker 05 Wasn't he a god in your family?
55:14 Speaker 06 He he he was a god in the whole country, but that's controversial because you can't just bring him along. You need to bring.
55:21 Speaker 05 Really.
55:22 Speaker 06 You, yeah.
55:23 Speaker 05 I think she was good fun, probably.
55:25 Speaker 06 Do you know what I mean?
55:25 Speaker 05 She was a bad girl, but I think she was good fun.
55:28 Speaker 06 Like the the way she's spoken about in the UK or the rest of the world and the way she's spoken about in South Africa is just like worlds apart. So we grew up with her being the hero, the the actual warrior in the streets, walking around.
55:43 Speaker 05 To try and get him freed and and bring keeping him alive.
55:46 Speaker 06 But other things as well, you know, like other other army things as well and how she got treated was just always put in the background. So I'd have to have both of them. But I still wouldn't have them because I need the conversation to go that way.
55:59 Speaker 05 Okay.
55:59 Speaker 06 You know, I still, I think that I read, my dad made me, when we were naughty, my dad would make us read A Long Walk to Freedom.
56:06 Speaker 05 Oh.
56:07 Speaker 06 When you were naughty? Yeah, so that's where my love of books came from.
56:11 Speaker 05 It is a great book.
56:12 Speaker 06 It is a really good book, but it's a lot. We read that one, you know, that the thick one, the one that you can't even open the book.
56:18 Speaker 05 Before we let you go, one nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere.
56:25 Speaker 06 Okay, it's not nostalgic, but I do think it's um just weird. We had shark.
56:33 Speaker 05 Shark?
56:33 Speaker 06 Shark.
56:34 Speaker 05 Shark. When?
56:38 Speaker 06 I think thirteen years ago, the first trip my husband took me was to Iceland, which I was like, me and this guy are not gonna last. Because why would you take an African girl to like the coldest country in the world? Um, and we had shark with some shots, vodka shots, and it was the best experience.
56:58 Speaker 05 Oh, how interesting.
56:59 Speaker 06 It tasted horrendous, but the people of Iceland and the occasion and the food and the. It so we had food, we all had food and they went, you know what, we got some shark, you wanna try some shark? And I was like, yeah, and then we had the shot and then we had loads of shots afterwards. So I feel like the occasion. I will always remember Iceland for that. It was freezing cold. I got blown down the hill because of the wind. Then we went to a lagoon and then we went to a spa and it was beau- and the people were just incredible. And I remember it was all based of us sharing and me just saying, okay, I'll eat the shark and just accepting their culture.
57:41 Speaker 06 And their food and their ways that I always remember that.
57:45 Jessie Ware? And it made you realise that maybe you loved this guy, that you could be in a cold place and it could work out okay.
57:52 Speaker 06 Still argue about that. I sleep near the heater. He sleeps by the window.
57:57 Jessie Ware? What's the dance that you'll do when you make up? If you're fighting, what's the dance? Will you be like, will you just get them rum- rumba hips out and you'll be like salsa? You can't, you can't be grumpy with the salsa, can you?
58:07 Speaker 06 Can't be grumpy with the salsa. It's a local dance that you could do in the streets. You don't need to have a choreography. Most of the other ones, you kind of do need to know where he's going, but the salsa, it's all in his hands. And it's all in me to decide whether I go or not. So I make the choice. So. And it's any music, it can be fast, it can be slow, it can be romantic, it can be raunchy. As long as he's leading and I follow, that's how it works for the salsa.
58:34 Jessie Ware? I love that. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
58:37 Speaker 06 Thank you for having me.
58:38 Jessie Ware? And best of luck with the rest of the um pregnancy.
58:40 Speaker 06 Yes, thank you. Thank you for having me as well. Have fun.
58:58 Jessie Ware? O T M U C. Love her. Gorgeous woman. She really did arrive into the world being fabulous, didn't she?
59:07 Speaker 05 She did. She's just fabulous. Fun, warm, hardworking.
59:11 Jessie Ware? Yeah.
59:12 Speaker 05 From the age of four.
59:13 Jessie Ware? I can't actually.
59:14 Speaker 05 Competing.
59:15 Jessie Ware? My children are idle.
59:16 Speaker 05 Yeah, idle children.
59:18 Jessie Ware? Lazy. Buggers.
59:20 Speaker 05 Yeah, lazy children you've got, Jessie, compared to the Mabusi family.
59:24 Jessie Ware? I know, they are quite.
59:25 Speaker 05 High achievers.
59:26 Jessie Ware? Yeah, I know. And she was gonna go to uni and do engineering. I'm just like, oh yeah, just that on the side, a bit of engineering on the side, sure.
59:33 Speaker 05 Clever. And right now a novelist.
59:36 Jessie Ware? I know, it's really.
59:37 Speaker 05 I can see what she's written about on film, can't you?
59:41 Jessie Ware? Yeah, totally.
59:42 Speaker 05 Yeah.
59:42 Jessie Ware? She's fab. Really loved having her on. She's a really impressive, brilliant human and.
59:49 Speaker 05 Enthusiastic eater.
59:51 Jessie Ware? Enthusiastic eater. I'm really annoyed that my chicken was dry.
59:54 Speaker 05 Never mind, darling.
59:55 Jessie Ware? It's just annoying. So do I need to just not do it for as long, Alison Roman? Or was the chicken not big enough?
1:00:01 Speaker 05 I don't know. I cooked it for less time when I cooked it. I cooked it for two hours. And I felt that was over doing it as well.
1:00:09 Jessie Ware? Shit oven. I'm getting a new oven. I'm done with my oven. I'm like, I'm ready to break up with it.
1:00:14 Speaker 05 How are you going to get you a new oven? You'll have to get a whole new cooker.
1:00:17 Jessie Ware? This is a conversation for another time. Thank you to O T Mabusi for coming on. You can go and read her book Slow Burn. Or you can go and watch her documentary on Channel Four with Reverend, with Reverend Richard Coles, which is out, I think, in the summer. Um, I think it's in July, so it's not out yet. But thanks, O T, for coming on. And congratulations on having another baby. She looks amazing.
1:00:40 Speaker 05 She looks gorgeous.
1:00:41 Jessie Ware? We'll see you next week for more Ted and Hans.
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