1039: Should You Quit Your Job?

Scott and Wes dig into a listener mailbag full of AI questions: how to bill freelance work when the tools make you faster, whether coding still matters in interviews, and if the AI bubble is about to pop. Plus sandboxing your agents, managing block-based CMS chaos, and what it takes to leave a stable job when you’re risk averse. Show Notes 00:00 Welcome to Syntax! 01:09 Freelance Billing in the Age of AI: Who Gets the Speed Savings? 04:33 Value Based Pricing and Leveling Up Your Skills 06:37 Will Writing Code Become Irrelevant in Job Interviews? Ghostty, Superlogical Better Auth 11:05 Finding Human Answers in a Sea of AI Slop 14:57 Trust and Community Are the New Currency 15:49 Nobody Watches Conference Talks Anymore AI Engineer 18:18 Is the AI Bubble Going to Pop? The AI Bubble Survives on $1.65 Trillion in Hidden Debt 24:07 Where Is All the Software AI Was Supposed to Build? 26:19 AI Fatigue: When All You Do Is Review Code True Cost of AI Coding 30:03 Managing Large Block Based CMS Systems Fimo Sanity 38:57 Taking the Leap: Leaving a Stable Job as a Risk Averse Dev 43:45 Sandboxing Your Agents Instead of Running YOLO Mode CJ’s Video: Every Developer Should Know This Docker 45:38 Will AI Companies Fingerprint and Ad Target You? Colemak Web Audio API Brave on X 49:36 Labeling YouTube Exclusive Episodes for Podcast Listeners 52:16 Sick Picks + Shameless Plugs Sick Picks Scott: Sandpaper Pads, Jellyfin, Apps2Samsung Wes: Hisense TV Hit us up on Socials! Syntax: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Wes: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Scott: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Randy: X Instagram YouTube Threads

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Scott Tolinski?

  Welcome to Syntax. We got a potluck episode for you today. You bring the questions, we bring the answers. We got questions on how does freelancing work in the age of AI? It used to bail based on time and now I can do that so much faster. So do I make less money? Should I move to value-based billing? Got lots of thoughts on that. The future of CMSs, right? We have all these websites that are block-based and now they're really complex. How do we tackle that? And how does AI and agents play into managing a CMS? What do job interviews look like nowadays? Should I be sandboxing my agents or just YOLO running them on, on my computer, right?

• 0:38Scott Tolinski?

  And a really interesting question about like, I can't find any blog posts that are good anymore. They're all slopped out. They're all clanked out. And I can't Google it anymore. And we go into this little rant about like how trust and community is this huge new currency. So you got a question, syntax.fm, click on the potluck button, submit your question. We will answer it on a future episode.

• 1:09Scott Tolinski?

  All right. First question for today is Sarah Chen Rodriguez asks, a long time listener, first time caller. Thank you, Sarah, for calling in. Web development has been paying the bills for about 15 years for me. I do some freelance client work on the side. And now that we have AI coding tools, some things just take less time. I've leaned towards hourly rates. They have been working fine. I guess the core question or thought I have is, who should be benefiting from the increased speed, the dev or the client? I guess there are all sorts of ways to look at this. Devs have some additional costs and the client expects things to take less time. The budgets might stay the same overall, but you can expect more for the same money, et cetera, et cetera. Thanks for creating such high-quality dev content all these years.

• 1:54Scott Tolinski?

  Sarah, I'm going to say this in the complete, most unbiased way possible. This is me being unbiased. I think the developer should charge the same and get all of the rewards of the increase. That's what I think. Why do I think that? Because I'm the developer. Um, I mean, I, I think, you know, I think if it's like taking you less time and effort. The end of the day though, I think value-based pricing has always been a good thing. If you make a website in a week and that website manages to make your, your client a lot of money, or you know, it serves as their business foundation, the value is in the creation of it, not the amount of time it took to get there.

• 2:39Scott Tolinski?

  I do think that this is tough now because the amount of things that we can do faster has, you know, increased. So I do, I, I wonder about this. I, because I haven't done any freelance client work since this AI boom happened. I don't know, Wes. What do you think?

• 2:57Wes Bos?

  Yeah. I, I, I've thought for the longest time, and when I did freelance, it's like, like hourly billing is usually not the way to go. Because I invested a ton of time in my tooling and my process and all of that stuff. So that I could be quick and, and I shouldn't be penalized for, for being quick, right?

• 3:16Scott Tolinski?

  Shouldn't be what?

• 3:17Wes Bos?

  So I, you shouldn't be penalized for being quick, right? Scott, come on now, come on. That's, that's awful. But now more than ever, as you can like rice out your entire setup, and a lot of the stuff like maybe like you get an email from a client, they have feedback. You pipe that into your agent, it submits a pull request, and then you're the human in the loop there. Like, how do you, how do you bill based on that? Like, and if you're spending more tokens than somebody else, you know, like you're spending thousands of dollars on this type of stuff, it, it gets really muddy. So I think now more than ever, it's very important to ideally move to value-based billing.

• 3:58Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah. Do you put the token spend in the, in the invoice?

• 4:04Wes Bos?

  I, I don't think so. I think that you should, you should be charging much more than your actual token spend. Like it should, it should be negligible compared to how much you're, you're actually charging the client, right? If you are simply just like, again, being a meat proxy and taking what they want and sticking into the machine, you're not going to have a job for, for much longer because the client come so much more easily, just do that themselves.

• 4:28Scott Tolinski?

  Right.

• 4:28Wes Bos?

  They could just type into the box themselves rather than email you and have them copy paste it. I think the TLDR about this type of stuff is that you just need to get better. What you're able to deliver for the client, right? Like a 15-page website with a map integration and, and link off to a Shopify store used to be the bread and butter of, of a lot of these freelance devs where you could make five, 10 grand, right? And then, and then Squarespace came around and like the, like Wix and whatever. And, and a lot of that, like, like WordPress were kind of dried up, not to say, not entirely, but a lot of it did. Where clients realized we could just do a lot of this myself. I have a little bit more flexibility in it.

• 5:11Wes Bos?

  And I think that that's going to go even further with a lot of this AI stuff is that you are going to be expected to be doing a lot more. Not in terms of like the amount of work, but like you have to get better at your job. You have to get better as, as the stuff that we used to do is now simply a prompt away. We are, we have to move forward into harder stuff. You might have to get more into strategy. You might have to get more into design. You might have to get more into architecting your entire harness. So that, that these things are like, you can go on vacation and the whole thing will run itself, right?

• 5:45Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah. Yeah. Or be able to even get something unique and beautiful out of these agents rather than just another cookie cutter site. Yeah.

• 5:52Wes Bos?

  Exactly. Yeah. So whatever that is, you should be like focusing and looking forward as to like, what, what's the next step? As this stuff is now table stakes for absolutely everybody, what is my next step? And, and this has happened forever, right? Like you look back of what we were doing 15 years ago. That stuff is just an NPM install away a couple of years ago, and now it's just a prompt away. So it's, it's constantly changing ever more now than ever. But I would be looking at what the future of this thing looks like and move into, to value-based pricing.

• 6:27Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah. I remember when you needed a team of engineers to build a chat functionality on your site.

• 6:33Wes Bos?

  Yes. Oh, yeah.

• 6:35Scott Tolinski?

  Or anything real time whatsoever.

• 6:37Wes Bos?

  Tim Smith says, I heard y'all say on Sitax that job interviews are no longer about coding and they are about how you think. And more about how you prompt and, and how you think about when you're prompting, right? Like basically how you tackle a specific problem rather than the actual code that you're writing. Do you think there will be a time in the near future where actual writing code is irrelevant? And if so, uh, will frameworks and libraries also become irrelevant? This is tricky because

• 7:07Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah.

• 7:09Wes Bos?

  For, for some aspects, yes, I, I think like the, the actual code will, will become irrelevant for like just your table stakes stuff. But for, for so much of the other stuff, it becomes even, even more important, right? We look at, um, we had the PR computer guys on and they were obsessive about the code. Or I'm, I'm looking at the, uh, stuff that Mitchell Hashimoto is doing with Ghost to T. And what's this? What's the thing he's working on?

• 7:36Scott Tolinski?

  Super, super, super logical?

• 7:39Wes Bos?

  Super logical, which is like a terminal multiplexer. And he's just like obsessed about the performance and like going deep and nitty gritty on it. And like, it, now it, because we're building these crazy experiences, the, the actual low-level performance of the stuff matters so much more than, than it, it did before. So I think the code will matter differently based on the type of thing that you are, are working on. But I do agree that it's going to be so much more important as to like how you attack things, how you, how you solve problems. Because again, I know we said this in the last question, anybody can type into the box that they want.

• 8:20Wes Bos?

  But when it comes to building a beautiful experience into building a fast application, into building something that is actually going to be very good and be able to scale and provide an amazing experience. That's where the people that are able to do that, those people are going to shine way above than just the meatbags that are able to type in a box.

• 8:40Scott Tolinski?

  The meatbags. Yeah. I, I mean, I, I do think, you know, I, I've been the type of person that's been like hopeful that some of this stuff will still matter because I have so many skills wrapped up in this and I have so many opinions. I have so many opinions. I'm wearing a svelte T-shirt here, so I obviously care about what I like to use. Yeah. I don't know. There are, I, I can't, there is an app that I used React on lately that I didn't even look at the code and it was fine. I did not like, did not like it, but, um, it was fine. I didn't look at it. So do I think there's a time in the near future where actually writing code is irrelevant? And if so, I, I mean, it depends on what the word near is. And in the near future, I do think that is a thing.

• 9:23Scott Tolinski?

  I, I do think in the future it will be that way. How far in the future depends on how, how well the models and, uh, process continue to evolve here. I mean, the day that we're recording this, Fable 5.1 is set to drop and Fable one, or Fable 5 was really good. So I don't think Fable 5 is going to make it so we don't have to care about the code. But I think each new model that drops gets a little bit closer there. So yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a wild new world, folks. Uh, obviously like someone like us, we, we've been doing this a long time. We've seen a lot of changes and there were times where I cared nitty gritty about each individual function. And then there were times I stopped caring about that as much and installed a library.

• 10:08Scott Tolinski?

  I used to write my own auth from scratch somewhat regularly. And now guess what? I use Better Auth and I don't look and inspect every single file in Better Auth. And to me, obviously I think some people will disagree that this is the same thing, but it's just a, a layer of abstraction.

• 10:26Wes Bos?

  Yeah, it is. That goes back to the first one as well. Like you, you used to spend like weeks writing auth and integrating absolutely everything. And now we have very good abstractions that we can simply just install. And, and adding auth is, is now a couple of hours, an afternoon to, to get going versus, versus the weeks and weeks that this type used to take. So it's, it's just more abstractions on top of it. And, and that is the way forward with so much. The, I think the only difference that we have now is that it simply has just moved at this crazy pace. And the last, what, seven months that everybody has a bit of whiplash.

• 11:04Scott Tolinski?

  Yes, cool. All right. Next question from Christina. Hi from Czechia. Wow. Hi from Czechia. A big fan of yours. I have a question. I often find myself in a situation where I want to compare approaches, tools and libraries. For example, I'm trying to find alternatives to TRPC and figure out what to choose. I'm honestly interested in other people's opinions on that. I'm a bit old fashioned, so I don't prompt everything. What a, what a sentence that is.

• 11:33Scott Tolinski?

  I hate waiting for an answer when I could just find the right article on the web myself, but lately when searching for something, I keep finding answers and articles generated by AI. Every website looks the same and I hate it. I don't trust any site younger than a year old that uses, say, Tailwind. Because I also don't believe that so many people could actually love Tailwind. Christina, you're my kind of person.

• 11:59Scott Tolinski?

  So lately I've started searching for the results that are a year old or older, hoping to find an opinion on my question. How do you find good resources when web searching? Or did you completely give up on that? Do you have any tool that could filter them out? I currently use DuckDuckGo as a search engine. I could really use a tag in the search results saying, don't click, it's AI slop. Well, I think the big problem is that one, you are using DuckDuckGo as a search engine. Man, I love what DuckDuckGo stands for, but my God, I have a hard time getting anything useful out of DuckDuckGo. It's a bummer to me because I do really admire what they're doing and I've tried to main DuckDuckGo for so long and I just can't, I just can't.

• 12:44Scott Tolinski?

  There's too many times. I, I think the thing that you're looking for is community here. And community to me is the answer to all of these things because I find a lot of value in some Discord channels and rooms on specific tech. And I get into these things where there's people that I trust. You know, we have the benefit of having a large network. So if I'm asking for things like on Twitter, what do people, I'm going to get human responses and the ones that are AI, I'm going to block you. Right? So we have this like kind of ability to pull out from community opinions that most people don't have.

• 13:28Scott Tolinski?

  But I still think that community and trust invalidation there in that information is the way. Whether that is from trusted, I'm going to say trusted posters on Reddit. I mean, how, how much can you say that? But trusted posters in various chat rooms and various communities that you become a member of and a part of Slack rooms, those types of things. To me, that is where you find the value and it's, it's no different than going to your coworker and saying, hey, uh, hey Jeff, is this a terrible idea? And then Jeff could say, yes, you're, you're dumb for thinking this, or hey, you should check out this.

• 14:07Wes Bos?

  Yeah. And I also think like, like before all of this AI stuff, like there was so many blog posts out there that were like clearly just run up for the fact that they just wanted to SEO the crap out of it. Like, like Google results have been crappy for like four or five years now because people realize more traffic to your website. So they would write articles on absolutely everything. And they would do this very wishy washy, high level comparison of three or four different libraries. And like, like, like try it and go and search for. Yeah. Yeah. Like the state management libraries is, is a really good example of one where like,

• 14:47Wes Bos?

  it takes a lot of work to try them all out and to like get formed opinions on them all and write out a blog post. And so many of them were just these high level wishy washy things on it. Now, I agree with Scott. Trust is the currency going forward. We, we're already seeing this with like companies where literally anybody wants to launch something to get it out there. It's impossible for these companies to get in front of, of anyone. And that's why everything right now is, is people are just being paid off right now. And, and you can tell, you can tell when, when stuff is AI written, you can tell when people aren't genuinely into something.

• 15:28Wes Bos?

  Or you can tell when people are being paid off on something. And I think that that's why trust is going to be a huge currency. Community, people that you will look at their word and say, yes, I, I actually believe that. So you gotta get involved in a community and, and also from some same regard, like start sharing that, that content yourself. Also, kind of related. Nobody watches conference talks on, on YouTube at all, right? Like I often will spend like two weeks writing a conference talk. That talk will be posted on YouTube or whatever. Or like, if you go to like a conference that you missed and you want to watch, catch up on a couple of the actual talks.

• 16:10Wes Bos?

  Nobody's watching them. They have like a hundred views, 150 views. It's unbelievable. Like these are some of the, the smartest people in that specific area and, and people are just like not diving into it. So I think like another aspect of this is just like fix your attention span.

• 16:28Wes Bos?

  And, and don't hope to just be able to skim a blog post and, and absorb it all is like, spend some time and, and dive deep on it. Listen to the experts. It might take a little bit more time. It might not be as exciting as watching like a 20 second TikTok of some guy says, here are the five best state management libraries ever, you know? But you'll probably get a little bit more depth and be a little smarter for it.

• 16:53Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah. You know where people are actually watching conference talks? This should be not that surprising to you. The AI engineer conference. 1.4 million views, 1.4 million views, 1 million views, 624,000 views. Not all of the talks get that kind of views, but a number of the talks get major views, which I kind of shows you where that. Yes. Kind of shows you where the conference scene is right now.

• 17:22Wes Bos?

  Yeah, but most of them, 5.6, that's pretty good. 5.4 million views, you know? Last thing I'll say here is being able to just test it yourself. Um, like AI can scaffold out the examples super quickly. You could come up with an example, like your example here is TRPC. You could say, give me TRPC, give me better RPC. Give me like, like six or seven different possible RPC libraries. And I want to be able to update, pull data, refresh data. Like, give me an example of how to do this thing in all of them and have it scaffolded out. And then just go in there, read the code and, and you can, uh, you can form an opinion yourself.

• 18:04Wes Bos?

  That research used to be, take so long to do. And now you can simply scaffold it out and make, come to your own conclusions. By going in there, reading the code, who read the code? Who, who would have thought?

• 18:15Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah. I mean, it all comes back to that.

• 18:18Wes Bos?

  Oscar Erickson says, go Sweden. I'm a big fan. You're a big fan of syntax or Sweden? Probably both. So Oscar links to this YouTube video called, "The AI Bubble Survives on 1.6 Trillion in Hidden Debt." And it's kind of an interesting video. It sort of like goes into the economics of like people propping up and investing in a lot of these big AI companies and data centers and whatever. And all, there's just like so much money hinging on this AI stuff working out. And they're likening it to the 2008, like financial crisis where everybody like lost their homes.

• 19:02Wes Bos?

  And we'll link up the, the actual YouTube video because it's, it's kind of an interesting watch. So he says, "When I watch a video like that, I'm wondering, how will this really work out in the end? I would love to hear your take on the financial situation regarding AI." Now, I don't know if you necessarily want like economics or investing advice from Scott and I. But I, I just jotted on a couple of thoughts and I'll let you know my thoughts here. First, yes, I think this is scary because this has gone past, like all of this investing and all of this money that is riding on there. It's gone past like, oh well, screw rich people, screw AI. And it's like, no, like a lot of, a lot of people's like retirements and 401ks.

• 19:46Wes Bos?

  And a lot of the, the stuff is, is riding on this stuff now, you know? And if, and if this pops, then, then unfortunately so does a lot of people's like livelihood and, and their investments and their retirement and all that type of stuff. So it's not just like a LOL, screw AI. It's, it's become such a big pillar of the economy. The other thing, like I was thinking about this the other day because like we keep. Going between, holy smokes, this stuff is so expensive. And wow, these Chinese models are actually almost as good and are extremely cheap. You know, like, we just keep going between, wow, this is expensive. Wow, this is cheap. And it seems like the, the bridge between the cheap ones and the expensive one is, is getting

• 20:31Wes Bos?

  very, is getting closer, right? And I think that's why a lot of these AI companies are like doubling down on trying to get you into the, the products, right? They're, they're, they're not trying to just be the API that they can become a utility of anymore. They're trying to like, like, how do we lock you into our system so that you have to pay us every single day? And I just keep thinking about like, how big Salesforce is, you know, like Salesforce is like hundreds of billions of dollars for, I understand it's very complex, but it's just like, it's not, it's not that complex, but it's like, there's so many people that are just have built their entire businesses on top of Salesforce. There's so many people that are locked into it.

• 21:16Wes Bos?

  Same thing with like Slack and all of the stuff. You wouldn't think that these companies are paying thousands of dollars per employee per year for a chat app. If you told me that, like 10 years ago, I would be absolutely shocked.

• 21:31Scott Tolinski?

  Oh, especially with the, how, how every other AI chat app that came before something like ChatGPT functioned, right?

• 21:40Wes Bos?

  Yes. And I'm talking about like, like Slack alone. I guess Slack is owned by Salesforce.

• 21:45Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah.

• 21:46Wes Bos?

  Which is just like, it's really, yeah. It's really expensive to have Slack.

• 21:51Scott Tolinski?

  Well, Slack is now an AI editor as well.

• 21:54Wes Bos?

  Yes, there you go.

• 21:56Scott Tolinski?

  Everything's converging into one thing, so.

• 22:00Wes Bos?

  What I'm trying to say here is that these companies are trying to like, get that like, like corporate money, that enterprise money is where the big bucks are with all of this stuff. And that's, that's also why CloudFlare is $5. You know, why CloudFlare is $5 for me and you? It's because it's like $800,000 for like a medium company, because it's, that's where the, the big money is. So I don't, I, I don't see it having this massive, massive pop. And I don't know if people are, the higher ups are going to even let that thing pop because of what I said earlier. So not too worried, but I do hope that a lot of this like corpo stuff works out for these big companies that have so much money into it.

• 22:45Wes Bos?

  Otherwise, there could be some, some big problems.

• 22:48Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah, I mean, it's, I, I tend to like, just, you know, there was the whole, you know, financial crisis to the too big to fail stuff. To me, it just feels like we're actually in a world now where these companies can just do whatever the hell they want. So like, are we in a situation where they're actually going to be completely protected? Their house of cards is never going to fall down. It's kind of where I'm landing on it is that just that it's like the cat, it's just always going to land on its feet. And that could be an extremely ignorant perspective. What I do, like, I just have a hard time with the folks that are constantly saying

• 23:32Scott Tolinski?

  the bubble is about to burst and they've been saying it for the past like two years now. What like, I just don't know if that's going to happen. There's too much money floating around back and forth. And again, this, this is very much a dumb guy perspective on this. You can replay this in a couple of years when it crashes and whatever happens. But like, I, that's just kind of, I don't know, I'm just in a like, maybe it's just like a cynical perspective where like, yeah, you know, just everybody gets away with whatever they want these days. So therefore, you know, whatever. Yeah.

• 24:05Wes Bos?

  We'll see.

• 24:06Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah.

• 24:07Wes Bos?

  Yeah. We will see. I certainly don't want to be paying in 10 years from now, if we're still paying thousands of dollars per user to use a chat app. I think I will say like, where did we go wrong? Like, where's all the software that we said that this stuff would build? You know, I, I think about that a lot as well. It's like, day to day, like, what software am I using that?

• 24:29Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah.

• 24:30Wes Bos?

  That has been built with AI, you know? There's some things here and there, but there's just like so much stuff out there where I'm like, this sucks. Like I had, I went on this rant, how dragging and dropping images on the internet sucks. You try to drag and drop a hike, it doesn't know how to, how to convert it to a JPEG. You try to upload something that's not the right pixel shape or, or the, the file size is too large, it, it says, no, I can't do that. You drag and drop onto the wrong part of an app and it downloads it. Like, what are we doing that we have this magical genie in a bottle where you could literally just paste my rant into your genie and it will fix it for you, but we still haven't? You know, why is so much of the software still so crappy?

• 25:13Scott Tolinski?

  Yes. Well, yeah, it is. It's, it is, it is interesting. I mean, there, there's a tweet that I always go back to where it's just like, okay, that's a pretty cool process you've got going on, like, but what have you actually built? And I'm not saying that no one's built anything, but like, you know, you're not building a Sentry with just AI, right? All these people that will like, say that like, SaaS is cooked because they can just copy any SaaS. But I do think on a smaller scale, Wes, there's like some software, like there was, there was like a very versatile image downloader that works on YouTube and Vimeo and any site ever that has streaming video. Oh, you just click the extension and then click the video you want to download, it just downloads.

• 25:57Scott Tolinski?

  And to download videos at the highest quality from YouTube, it was like you pay 10 bucks or something. And I said, you know what, Claude? Just make me this extension. And five minutes later, Claude's like, all right, here's the extension. And now I have that without paying. So obviously there is some degree, right? Where, where things are just getting completely replaced.

• 26:18Wes Bos?

  Oh, yeah.

• 26:19Scott Tolinski?

  All right. So next question from Austin. What advice do you have for AI fatigue? Well, I guess this podcast episode, not doing good things for you, Austin.

• 26:27Wes Bos?

  No.

• 26:28Scott Tolinski?

  Before the days of agentic AI development, a typical workday involved a combination of authoring code and reviewing code. Nowadays, AI is authoring a lot of code, so I feel like all I'm doing is reviewing a lot of code and it's exhausting. Yes, it is. My output is higher, but so is my coworker's output. So I'm reviewing my own code, but also the number of PRs to review is greater. I'm considering going back to writing code without using AI. I don't like this new era of coding, but I also don't want to bring the get off my lawn energy and get left behind. I'm eager to hear the episode going over Scott's mental health survey. Austin, yes, that video is out. And since that video, we have gotten, man, we've gotten like an additional 2,000 responses

• 27:13Scott Tolinski?

  to the mental health survey that we did. So go watch that video. It's called the true cost of AI coding. And yes, there is a massive mental toll from AI coding, not just from the amount of decisions we have to make. I mean, like if you've used the Grill Me skill, Grill Me will ask you like 20 questions. And honestly, the output is better when you use that stuff. But what is the mental health ramifications of answering 20 questions several times a day on features that get built and then having to review and look over the code and then go back and forth with it about it not being right or needing to be tweaked in these following ways or all of the things. And there's people who say, cope, just use, get better, do all that, or stop being such a baby about it.

• 27:58Scott Tolinski?

  But there is real mental health effects that mimic addiction and all kinds of things from the process of AI coding. And yes, I think we need to adjust ourselves. Now, Austin, I don't know if going back to coding by hand completely is, is the move to solve these things. I think improving our process is the way to solve these things and improving the way that we work with these tools rather than just saying, you know what? Screw it, I'm going back to the Flintstones car instead of using my actual car.

• 28:34Wes Bos?

  As much as you want to like, screw it, going back to only coding by hand, like, I don't think. I don't, there's probably some people that are gonna be able to do that, have like this artisanal Etsy coding thing, but I think if you want to keep up in this industry, I don't think that that's the move. Hilariously enough, I think the solution to this AI fatigue part of it might just be more AI. You know, like the code review, the, the PR checks, all of this stuff, that will help quite a bit.

• 29:04Scott Tolinski?

  Wes, isn't it our fault for, for pushing this stuff on everyone to always pushing it on everybody?

• 29:11Wes Bos?

  It's, it's totally our fault.

• 29:14Wes Bos?

  But I, I do agree. I think that we are trying to figure out how do we keep up with the sheer amount of stuff that is coming in and being able to check it over and keep things constrained and, and stop things like, like obviously security issues, but even just like UI drift of like, oh, the UI just, oh, you added in a couple of font sizes there. And then six months later, your, your app is just an absolute mess from, from everything that's been put in there. So I think that we are all in this spot right now. We are all trying to figure out what does this look like? And I think that it's partially going to be just planning and teams being able to constrain themselves

• 29:57Wes Bos?

  and, and partially going to be new tooling that will help us have confidence in the code that we ship.

• 30:03Scott Tolinski?

  Yes. Word.

• 30:05Wes Bos?

  Dave has a question about CMSs, not an AI question. Bring it on, Dave. Dave says, we have different editable blocks on our websites. Whenever we add a new block, editing the site becomes more complex. We reached the point where having 20 plus blocks on them and the marketing team might ask us, how do we just add text to this page?

• 30:30Wes Bos?

  Or we might use the wrong module for the wrong job. Do you have any insight on managing large, flexible CMS systems? Initially, we thought we should limit the number of blocks to make development simpler, depreciation easier, style iterations, less impactful, training, less daunting, et cetera, et cetera. But since then, we have been looking at Apple and Stripe, and they clearly have no limit on modules and maintain coherence throughout. Maybe the examples are an indicator of manpower. Either way, have you ever mused over this conundrum? Yes, this is, this is really interesting because back in the day of CMSs, what would happen is you would have like, you'd have a page and you'd have like, like a body and you put all your text in there and then, and then people wanted a little

• 31:14Wes Bos?

  bit more flexibility. So you'd add like custom fields, you know? Okay. Well, maybe we want to have call to action. And then you can, if you put text in there, then the call to action will show up. And then people said, no, I want like a, I want a site builder. I want to be able to have flexibility. So we created this thing called blocks and you could add all what, you could just click them. Everyone's, it's like Lego. You could just grab whatever block you want, click them together and boom, you have this, this website. And then the blocks didn't do what you wanted.

• 31:43Scott Tolinski?

  Yep.

• 31:44Wes Bos?

  So you made more blocks or you added, you added settings to the blocks and you had to toggle on. And then before you know it, you've got so many blocks and then nobody knows where to go to edit absolutely anything, right?

• 31:56Scott Tolinski?

  Or, or Wes, or in Drupal world, you know, you, you either get into the templates or they have the, the dreaded PHP block where it's just, let me just throw some random PHP code inside this block instead of having it be editable just because I needed the PHP functionality, but I didn't want to build a whole module to do it, right? So then you have the display components mixed with actual functionality components that people are supposed to be editing, but are PHP. I mean, there's just, yeah, it was always a mess. It was crazy.

• 32:28Wes Bos?

  Well, let me tell you, this is not a question about AI, but I think the answer to a lot of this stuff is, is not limiting what people can do. At just a certain point, you do want to limit people so that they don't go absolutely nuts. But, and it's not just creating a million different possible blocks that, that these people can use. I think the answer to a lot of the stuff is, is AI is actually really good at taking unstructured content and being able to, to put it out there. So what a CMS looks like is, is kinda, kinda changing and kinda up for grabs right now.

• 33:05Wes Bos?

  Because the reason why we had such a rigid CMS was exactly for this reason, where we wanted to be able to, to scale up, but we still wanted to have some consistency across all of the pages. And, and to answer your question about like Apple and Stripe, maybe they just have more manpower. They absolutely do have more manpower. They have entire agencies. I've, I receive DMs. Whenever we talk about Apple websites, we receive DMs from people who work on it. They often have entire separate companies that work on just the iPad landing page, you know? Like just big teams. So yes, they, they are able to do that with the manpower. But I think that what a CMS looks like in the

• 33:46Wes Bos?

  future, I know the folks at Strappy are building this thing called Fimo at Fimo.ai. I think it kind of pokes at, at this area, which is just like, you want the structure of a CMS, you know, you have your, your content that is somewhat structured, but you also want the like fluidity and flexibility of, of an agent. And I think having an agent be able to manage your site and less so on the CMS is, is probably going to be the future. I do it on my own website as well, where I'm just like, I, I specifically use MDX. So I can write markup and my content in the same file.

• 34:29Wes Bos?

  And it's great because you can just type in boop, boop, boop, what you want. And now I'm, granted, I'm a developer, but I think that that we're getting closer and closer. We're just regular people are going to be able to do, to just use an agent to say, hey, I want to add X, Y, and Z on the webpage and it will boop, boop, boop, pop it out. You don't have to fuss with all of these stupid little rigid inputs and blocks and whatever, because blocks were invented because humans need structure. And AI is so much better at taking messy inputs and making them into a structured output. Not to say that it will look good. I think that you still need the guardrails and styles and whatever to make sure that it, it looks consistent across all of your

• 35:13Wes Bos?

  pages. But I think an agent is a really good use for that. So I messaged Pierre, um, he's the CEO of, founder of Strappy. What his thoughts are, I just messaged him like two minutes ago and he didn't reply yet. So I'm not sure.

• 35:28Scott Tolinski?

  What was the thing called?

• 35:28Wes Bos?

  Fimo, F I M O dot AI. This is making your website autonomous. And, and you have to think that the, this is the, the area because it's from Strappy, which is like a, a CMS, right?

• 35:41Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah. Yeah. I, I've been so out of the CMS game. When I worked at Ford, every single market that Ford had, had their own CMS for basically the same site, just skinned differently. And so I was on a team of people that were designing and developing components and building out full on components. This is, I mean, this is Angular one days, full on components that we would then have to send to whatever markets existed, which you can imagine are a lot of markets. And then their internal teams would then have to then implement those components in their own CMS, because each market

• 36:20Scott Tolinski?

  had a different CMS. The CMS game is, is, is kind of always been crazy. And I do think that, like you said, Wes, agents are perfect for this, even like on small sites. You know, I made a site for, for Courtney's podcast and I want to think that like she could go into our AI, which uses Hermes and say, update this on the website and it would just do it. Like she wouldn't have to go into a CMS. She would just go into her Hermes chat and say, hey, update this. And I also wonder with Web MCP, like Web MCP is just going to open this up even more where agents are going to be able to talk directly to the functionality of a site and it's just gonna do it. Yeah.

• 36:57Wes Bos?

  I think sanity is in this area as well. I'm just on their, their website. Sanity was the sponsor of the show for a long time. And they, like every business have moved into, we do this with AI. But they have a really good example on their website of like, being able to just like, click on the text you want to change. Like that was always the weird thing as well with like, with CMS and WordPress world is you would see the page and you say, now where do I change that? And like often it would be in the page, sometimes it would be in the settings or it'd be in like a, like a footer, like finding that piece of content. And like, a lot of these payload is another one of them as well. It's like, you should just be

• 37:36Wes Bos?

  able to click on the text that is on your website and then it should, either you type it right there, like content editable, or it should like pop up some sort of inline editor for you, or you can click on that and then tell your agent, hey, update this to X, Y, and Z, or add a section underneath this that will be a call to action or a product image.

• 37:58Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah.

• 37:59Wes Bos?

  CMS world, weird, weird world. We, I think we're due for another roundout. A couple of years ago, we did a,

• 38:06Wes Bos?

  We did like a whole roundup comparison of all the CMSs out there. It's probably one of our most popular episodes of the year. And that space has changed quite a bit. Maybe we'll do another roundup.

• 38:17Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah. Hey, I want to say this. Whoever is attempting to get into my X dot, my X the everything app dot com.

• 38:24Wes Bos?

  Me too.

• 38:24Scott Tolinski?

  I've got like 20 password request reset things this morning. Stop it.

• 38:30Wes Bos?

  Me too. I think.

• 38:31Scott Tolinski?

  There's nothing in there for you. Stop it. Don't, don't like, don't take, don't, don't do this. This is dumb. I don't want these emails.

• 38:39Wes Bos?

  Oh, I, I'm, I'm just searching it on, on X. Absolutely. Everybody is getting nailed with password reset requests. So I think.

• 38:46Scott Tolinski?

  Stupid.

• 38:47Wes Bos?

  Some script kitty is out.

• 38:49Scott Tolinski?

  Knock it off.

• 38:50Wes Bos?

  Yeah. My phone is just buzzing like crazy. I just got eight of them in the last.

• 38:54Scott Tolinski?

  That's what I'm saying. They're happening like all 24/7 this morning. God. All right. Well, next question for best was, hey, CJ, Wes and Scott, love the pod and have been here since episode one. Yes.

• 39:06Wes Bos?

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:07Scott Tolinski?

  Thanks for sticking around. My question for you is how you all would suggest or has seen risk adverse devs take the plunge into leaving a stable job. I've been at my company for the better part of a decade. Wow. They've treated me exceptionally well and I'm now running out of people to learn from and I'm at the upper end of what companies pay in my area. The problem I run into is that I'm the sole breadwinner for my family. So every time I think about jumping to a new company, how would you all think about this? Keep the growth on my own and stay comfortable in the position or take the leap of faith and start applying at bigger or remote jobs. The upsides of applying elsewhere are deeper,

• 39:48Scott Tolinski?

  less local talent pool to learn from and a larger salary. But that is a kind of secondary. I am specifically not unhappy, nor am I needing to chase that bigger bag. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Best was, if you are happy, man, stay happy. If you are secure at your job, then that's like something that, you know, is important because you see it, a lot of these bigger companies where you're just a number, man, they, they, they, you know, snap that finger and you're gone with 10,000 other people or whatever, you know? So there is something, I've always been the person who does take the leap of faith, but I, I haven't in a while. I guess the last leap of faith I did was when I quit my job

• 40:32Scott Tolinski?

  at Ford to do level up tutorials full time and then eventually start the syntax podcast with Wes. But I had done job changes where I left a job I really liked for a bigger bag and then ended up hating that job and then left within like five months to take a different job because the, the talent pool at the new job was worse. I didn't like the work we were outputting. It was an agency work and I was just like kind of unhappy. I was finishing faster than everybody else and just like not really that excited to go to work anymore. So yeah, there is something to be said about the comfort and stability of having a job and working with people that you know and trust. But then again, on the

• 41:14Scott Tolinski?

  other side of it, you really have a lot of growth from moving on and experiencing new things and doing things differently. It depends on, on like, if you were to take this new job and then get laid off in six months, like, what would you do? I guess you need to have that plan because I'm the type of guy who changes stuff up. I change things around. I, I, you know, take new jobs, but then, you know, at 40 years old here, I think my position on this has changed where I would try to, to, to risk things, you know? I don't know.

• 41:46Wes Bos?

  Yes. I, I think the risk here is the risk of not going to a bigger, better job is, is like, what's going to happen to your skills? If you're, you're at the upper end of who you can learn from, if you can continue to skill up by bringing things into your job that are, are going to be next level, learning new things that are coming, then I think that's going to be fine. Or if you, if you work on like, like side projects or your own little things where you just put it out there to the internet. Often that's how a lot of people find their like dream jobs is they simply just like working on stuff in public and, and somebody that works at a company will be like, hey, we need this exact skill set at our company. Do you want to come work for us? So like, that's, that's

• 42:31Wes Bos?

  maybe one like way to just like not actively go out and search for it, but to keep your skills up and to just like, let yourself be semi-available, just like putting yourself, putting your projects out there is probably a very good move. So like, I just don't want, like, we, we have this question all the time where people say, I've been at this job for 10 years and now my skills are like six years behind or four years behind. And like, I don't want to get this message from you in three years from now, when things are obviously changing very quickly right now. And you say like, now, now my company is shutting down and I'm not, I'm not skilled up and I'm not able to, to jump ship to another one.

• 43:14Wes Bos?

  So like, I would probably just be very aware of where are your skills at in comparison to what it has. So that if you were to have to jump ship for whatever reason, then you would be able to. Otherwise, it sounds like you're happy. You don't want more money. You don't necessarily want to change as long as you can keep that, that skill set up. That interest, you're listening to this podcast, you're probably pretty dialed. So I probably wouldn't worry about it too much.

• 43:42Scott Tolinski?

  Yes.

• 43:42Wes Bos?

  Probably a smart guy, best was.

• 43:45Scott Tolinski?

  Probably a smart guy, best was.

• 43:47Wes Bos?

  Jergen says, something I don't hear much on podcasts is how people are sandboxing their agents. I'm assuming you're usually running them in YOLO mode. Are you locking them down in any way so they won't RM, RF your home folder? I have experimented slightly with containers, but I haven't figured out how that fits yet. There, are there specialized tools like no no dot SH, which I haven't tried, would appreciate your thoughts on it. But yes, let me direct you to CJ just posted a video on the syntax YouTube channel and it is called CJ switches the names up every now and then thus is the, the YouTube game. But basically he has a 13 minute video explaining how and why you should be using different

• 44:32Wes Bos?

  types of like dev containers, Docker, containerization, excellent, excellent breakdown of how these pieces work. And then he's also going to be working on a video just told us yesterday is just basically instead of explaining how all the pieces work and what the actual options are, he's just going to come up with like a full recipe that says, just use this. Cause I think that's what a lot of people want. They're like, I know I shouldn't be using YOLO mode and it hasn't, I haven't actually had any problems yet. So maybe it's fine, but it's probably, especially when you're doing stuff for your employer or whatever, where there's possible security issues, you probably should be running this in some sort

• 45:11Wes Bos?

  of sandbox. So certainly subscribe to YouTube on syntax on YouTube and CJ's got you covered.

• 45:18Scott Tolinski?

  Yes. Perfect. I love that answer. Yes. Because YOLO mode sadly is, is, I don't want to give too much away how I operate a lot of stuff.

• 45:28Wes Bos?

  Yeah.

• 45:29Scott Tolinski?

  It's not just on, on coding. It's just in life. So, uh, yes, I want to see this because I need to get sandboxed, but it is such a pain in the butt sometimes. So I need that. All right. From Dither Dude, since I was stuck in bed for a short while using aux alpha test phase, I was prompting in bed for my phone. While a task was running, I asked the agent if it could determine my keyboard layout. I switched to Kolmak on mobile a year ago because QWERTY hurt my fingers to type fast. Wow. Kolmak on mobile. One time I switched to Dvorak on mobile and that was dumb because I didn't have a Dvorak on my laptop. Well, was shockingly it not only figured out, but it also correctly guessed my muscle memory as I use QWERTY on PC. Hey, look at me. Am I the only one who thinks

• 46:13Scott Tolinski?

  Anthropic, et cetera, will be using subtle fingerprinting technologies on their models to add target their user base? No, I don't think you're the only pro. I think chat GPT like, uh, announced that they were going to do that. I don't know if they ever did because I haven't just straight up used chat GPT outside of like a coding context. But no, I think they are going to be doing that. And get ready to, uh, not only have the brands that they think you'll love shoved down your face with the current for you pages and now goes that way, done even more because they have your every thought and everything you've ever sent to them. Yes.

• 46:52Wes Bos?

  Everybody.

• 46:52Scott Tolinski?

  Local models, folks.

• 46:53Wes Bos?

  Everybody's fingerprinting you, which is, is very unfortunate. Not to say like this aux alpha, whatever. I'm not sure which app he was actually using, but there are APIs that are able to tell you the keyboard layout on mobile. So it might've just used those APIs to figure it out. But that's the, besides your point is like, they certainly are fingerprinting. Did you see that AliExpress was caught using audio APIs in the browser to, they, they weren't recording you, but they were playing a silent sound and measuring how a user's specific device processed it.

• 47:32Scott Tolinski?

  God.

• 47:33Wes Bos?

  In order to fingerprint them. So I, I guess using the audio API, they played a silent sound and, and I'm, I'm not entirely sure how they were able to turn that into a, a unique fingerprint, but all of these APIs on the web are often.

• 47:54Scott Tolinski?

  I don't know. Yeah. They're listening to it on the microphone. I don't know. Yeah.

• 47:58Wes Bos?

  A user with Bluetooth headphones noticed that they couldn't play music via their phone because their headphones were playing AliExpress's silent sound from their PC. That probably has something to do with load or time to process the frames, you know?

• 48:11Scott Tolinski?

  Something weird. Yeah.

• 48:12Wes Bos?

  Often they will use several of these fingerprinting techniques and they'll put them all together and they say, ah, well, this person's computer was able to render this thing. It could play the sound and it could process it at this number of hertz. And then they take all of these things together and all of those together, hopefully come up with some sort of unique fingerprint for that person. And then you're able to track that person across all of their different websites that they visit, which is a bummer because so many of, of the nice web APIs have been kiboshed because they could be possibly used for fingerprinting, which is such a bummer.

• 48:48Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah. Yeah. Web MIDI. I, yeah. I like wondering that when they're going to start using like echolocation to map out your room. There's setting up. Oh God.

• 48:58Wes Bos?

  Oh, here we go. Brave, Brave says, there are slight variation on how each device plays the same audio file due to differences in CPU, sound card, browser, et cetera. When AliExpress played the silent sound, it measured these small variations to help build a fingerprint of a user's device. Yikes, yikes, yikes, yikes. Stop doing that. Stop doing that. Just let me buy my cheap electronics without, uh, tracking me across the internet.

• 49:26Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah. Do you really need to do that? Like, be cool about it. Do you, you already have a business. That business is selling stuff. Yikes. Okay. Podcast number one, podcast number two. Would it be possible to have a visual cue on the videos that are on YouTube, that are YouTube exclusives? A specific emoji in the description or something into the thumbnail. Currently, end users that use a podcast app also subscribe to the YouTube channel, have to play the guess if this will show up on the podcast feed on every video on YouTube. At this point, although I'm subscribed, I pretty much ignore that your YouTube feed, although I would like to enjoy the content that isn't going to show up on the podcast

• 50:09Scott Tolinski?

  feed. Thank you for your consideration. Here's, yeah. You know what we should just do, Wes? We should have a YouTube exclusive playlist and just put everything there and then make that playlist the first thing on the landing page channel for it. This is tough because like, we need to play some games with the YouTube algorithms.

• 50:32Wes Bos?

  Yeah. We used to put like the show number. We used to put the show number in the title, but guess what? That, that doesn't get, get clicks. Um, you have to put-

• 50:41Scott Tolinski?

  It gets like de-incentivized or whatever.

• 50:45Wes Bos?

  Yeah. Or, or we used to like, even with like guests, we used to put the guest's name in the title, which it makes so much sense. You want to know who's in that thing, but like, people don't know who that guest is, so they don't click on it. So you have to say like, this guy did X, Y, and Z. And it's, it's such a frustrating thing to have to, to play because we, I understand. I just want to be able to put like a hashtag in the thumbnail or be like, like, like, I think only Joe Rogan can simply just say like, J R E number 1,800 and put the name in it. But even him, I bet he could do, he could do a lot better if he were to like, put actual titles in it. We, I will tell you, the Mondays

• 51:25Wes Bos?

  episodes are on YouTube, they're going to be live streams and then they are released as a podcast the following Monday on the RSS feed. And then the Wednesday episodes are just exactly the same, both on the podcast feed and on YouTube. And then anything else, so if you could, you could simply just look at the day that it was released, anything else is going to be simply exclusive to YouTube.

• 51:48Scott Tolinski?

  Yes. I agree though.

• 51:50Wes Bos?

  We could even do something in the thumbnail as well, you know, like, cause we do put the little syntax in there. So maybe we could like change the color of it. We'll talk about it. We'll bring it up.

• 51:59Scott Tolinski?

  Talk about it. Yeah. We have an onsite in October that we're going to be chatting in the same room. So look out for that. We'll make some changes. We're always tweaking this bad boy. So we appreciate your feedback, podcast one, podcast or YouTube number two. We appreciate that. Um, cool. Well, I don't have anything, Wes. You got anything before we get out of here? Any sick pics? Any thing you want to share?

• 52:22Wes Bos?

  I've got a sick pick for you. Um, I unfortunately recently had to buy a new TV. So we had 75 inch Samsung Frame TV. Beautiful. I know people don't like Samsung Frame. They're like, oh, it's not a good TV. Shut up. It was sick. Okay. Um, kid hucked a toy at it. Whole thing cracked. No longer good. Very, very upset. So what did we do? Bought a bigger one. 85 inch.

• 52:48Scott Tolinski?

  You went 85.

• 52:49Wes Bos?

  Yeah, man.

• 52:50Scott Tolinski?

  Ooh, cool.

• 52:51Wes Bos?

  The, cause like some of the feedback we got when I, I've posted a photo of the 75, this is blowing my brain, given that I like had a 13 inch growing up. People said you could have gone bigger from the 75.

• 53:04Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah.

• 53:04Wes Bos?

  So we didn't buy as nice of a one as the Samsung Frame. It's not as flush or whatever. It's not OLED because I'm, I'm not going to let a kid throw a toy at a $8,000 TV, you know? Um, but we got a Hi-Sense, I think U8, 85 inch. Got it at Costco. It was about 2,000 bucks Canadian, which is 1,400 US. Um, and it looks awesome. Sounds great. It's not, like, I'm not like a TV snob, but like I do recognize that looks pretty good, you know? My wife's watching 4K baseball on it and, uh, it looks sick. I'm, I'm very happy with it. Aside from it's not being as thin as possible, everything

• 53:47Wes Bos?

  else, I couldn't, couldn't be more pleased about it. So-

• 53:50Scott Tolinski?

  Who cares about how thin a TV is these days? I mean, you put it on the wall.

• 53:53Wes Bos?

  I do, because we had it.

• 53:54Scott Tolinski?

  No, I know, but they're thin. They're, oh, it's, yours isn't, yours isn't as thin against the wall as the, as the-

• 54:00Wes Bos?

  No, because like the sides, like, like the sides bow out. Um, and like, like when you walk by it, you can kind of see behind the TV. Our last one was like flush against the wall. Um, and it's like, the Samsung Frame was like less than an inch and then this one was like three inches. But it's like, what are we doing complaining about this? You know, like unbelievable that you can get a TV that is larger than your children, um, for, for something that's not crazy, you know? People, TVs have gotten so cheap and, uh, I wasn't ready to spend like a ton on an OLED. So we went for the relatively cheap Hi-Sense and our, our idea is like, we'll have it for a couple of years until

• 54:42Wes Bos?

  the kids stop throwing stuff at it. And then we'll, we'll move that to the basement and we'll get like a, like an OLED once the prices on those come down. But we've been very happy with it.

• 54:51Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah. I, I, I've been the type of guy who's been like looking at getting and maxing out on the best OLED at 85 inches whenever. But ultimately I just don't need a TV. Uh, the Samsung we bought a while ago is fine. I mean, it's a Samsung, so it has a bloatware. The UI is crappy.

• 55:10Wes Bos?

  Yeah, man. The new one has Google TV. I love Google TV. People, I know people don't like it.

• 55:16Scott Tolinski?

  No, I like it. Yeah. I have portable Google TVs that I use for like my projector or I have them in the basement that isn't a smart TV. Uh, the thing with me is that I buy a nice TV and I hold on to it forever. So, um, I haven't really looked at Hi-Sense though. We used to be like a Vizio. We'd get a Vizio from Costco when they were cheap and, uh, there's something to be said about that TV that's just good enough. So I'll check out Hi-Sense.

• 55:42Wes Bos?

  I, yeah. It's, it's a kind of like a, like a cheaper one, you know? It's the, one of the cheaper ones at Costco, but it, it looks awesome. And the other thing about it is that like, you don't buy a TV for, for the long run anymore because they just get better and cheaper and hotter every single day.

• 55:58Scott Tolinski?

  Yes. Yes.

• 55:59Wes Bos?

  You stay at the same age.

• 56:01Scott Tolinski?

  Yes, yes. Right. Oh my God. Wes doing a Dazed and Confused. You never see that. You never hear Wes quote anything, let alone a movie. Oh my God.

• 56:12Wes Bos?

  It's one of the few movies I, I did see when I was a kid. Uh, Went Hot American Summer and Dazed and Confused.

• 56:16Scott Tolinski?

  Oh man, I love Went Hot American Summer. My God.

• 56:19Wes Bos?

  Have you seen the new one? Like a new one came out a couple of years ago.

• 56:22Scott Tolinski?

  Um, I don't, I might have. You know what? Courtney hates it. It's like not her type of humor. Like, her type of humor is Weekend at Bernie's and White Chicks and that type of, I love those movies too. But Went Hot American Summer, there's something about that movie that, uh, I always just, I, I got it at like used at Blockbuster on DVD one time and I watched it like a billion times. So, no, I, I don't know if I have seen the, the new one, but I'll check it out. Uh, I need to do that.

• 56:48Wes Bos?

  It's hilarious. And the funniest part about it is that like, I don't know who any, anyone is. I don't know who any movie stars are or any actors or anything. I just thought it was a funny video and I just like, I like, oh, I told my wife, we gotta watch this. And she's like, that's Amy Poehler. That's, I don't know who, who all these people are. Yeah. I was like, I don't know who that is, but they're hilarious. And she's like freaking out. She's like, how are all of these people on this movie?

• 57:14Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah. It's a very funny movie. All right. My sick pick is going to be sanding pads. Wes, 3D prints apparently look way better when you dang sand them. I, I, I started wet sanding 3D prints lately and I use these sanding pads. They're these little foam sanding pads and they just start at like a 320 grit and get all the way down to like a 3,000 or something. And either way, you just go one through nine here. You just start one, you do the next one, you do the next one. And then the, I, I've been sanding all kinds of 3D prints and it's a kind of a pain in the butt, but like for things that I'm going to be keeping a long time and have on my desk or like the prompt boy that I made, like the things that I want to be looking nice. My God, it makes a huge difference. It like

• 57:57Scott Tolinski?

  really takes that, it's 3D printed look and removes it. So yes, uh, these little sanding pads. Thank you. It was a lot of work and I almost sanded too much. It was getting a little transparent. So, uh, but it is very smooth and it feels great. Uh, so check out these sanding pads. They're cheap. There's a whole bunch of them. I use them just like by running the thing underwater while I do it. That way you're not kicking up dust, dust.

• 58:22Wes Bos?

  I, I used to, in university, I used to flip BlackBerrys. So I would buy, I would buy like AT&T BlackBerrys and then I would unlock them. I had this like sketchy website that would sell unlock codes for like eight bucks and I would unlock them. And then I would take the, the BlackBerry apart and then I would like rattle can it and then wet sand it to like look glossy. And then I would put it on Craigslist, like unlocked, custom color phone. And they sold like hotcakes. People love that.

• 58:54Scott Tolinski?

  Yes. Uh, I love that. Well, also, hey, I'm going to actually throw something else out here too, Wes. I recently installed Jellyfin next to Plex because I wanted to compare them. I know. And Randy shared this Apps2Samsung, uh, repo. So I'm going to share this with y'all because Apps2Samsung made getting the Jellyfin app on my TV actually possible for me, which I like, couldn't do it before. And, and I thought this like, this little app was so slick and it just made everything way easy. So now I have Jellyfin on my TV and I can finally watch Miami Vice without D-Synced audio. Cause Plex was, was giving me D-Synced audio on Miami Vice for some reason and, and who

• 59:38Scott Tolinski?

  knows why. So, uh, Jellyfin does not. And I'm going to, I'm going to be watching, uh, the complete series of Miami Vice now. Yes.

• 59:46Wes Bos?

  I didn't realize that. Are we, our Samsung was not Tizen. It was WebOS. So like we could, we could load the, the Jellyfin app, no problem. But we do have another TV down here that I had to like sign up for like a Tizen developer account and like sideload it on and that sucked. You had to sign, like get a certificate to sign the thing. No, thanks.

• 1:00:08Scott Tolinski?

  No, thanks.

• 1:00:09Wes Bos?

  This, this is a perfect example. It's like, obviously this is a vibe coded app and like somebody fixed a problem, made it work.

• 1:00:16Scott Tolinski?

  Somebody fixed a problem. Yes. Took many steps and turned it into a couple of steps and now I got, uh, some software on my TV that I flashed myself. Crazy.

• 1:00:24Wes Bos?

  Right on. All right. Thanks everybody for tuning in. Catch you later.

• 1:00:27Scott Tolinski?

  Peace.