Selects: Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Gin

If there's one thing we've learned about Chuck over the years it's that he loves his gin. And he loves it even more now that understands it. Pour yourself a martini and cozy up to the classic gin-cast. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Josh Clark?

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• 1:41Josh Clark?

  Hey guys, it's me, Josh, and for this week's select, I've chosen our December 2019 episode on gin. I don't take much of a tipple anymore, but I still find that I appreciate gin, and this episode does justice to it, in my opinion. It has history, distillation, laws, junipers, everything you can imagine to make a well-rounded, floral-forward Stuff You Should Know episode. I hope you enjoy it very much.

• 2:12Speaker 00

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

• 2:22Josh Clark?

  Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. There's Jerry over there and we are wasted.

• 2:31Josh Clark?

  Wasted on excitement about talking about gin.

• 2:36Speaker 03

  Wasted on excitement.

• 2:37Josh Clark?

  Uh huh.

• 2:38Speaker 03

  I like that. That's a great motto.

• 2:40Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 2:41Speaker 03

  And not a, not the worst band name, but not the best.

• 2:45Josh Clark?

  It's not the best at all.

• 2:46Speaker 03

  It's like an album title more like.

• 2:48Josh Clark?

  Oh yeah, it's a good album title. Maybe it's Jungle X-Ray's second album, Wasted on Excitement.

• 2:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, or Bathtub Gin, Wasted on Excitement.

• 2:57Josh Clark?

  Bathtub Gin's a Phish song.

• 2:59Speaker 03

  Oh, it is? Mm-hmm. It's funny, I was, I was walking in the neighborhood yesterday and I saw a, a car that was clearly like the child home for, for Thanksgiving. It was like this kind of beat up Jeep from Florida. And it had a Phish sticker and a Grateful Dead sticker and like one other thing.

• 3:19Josh Clark?

  College.

• 3:20Speaker 03

  And this really nice thing. And I was like, oh man, I bet, I wonder how much weed is hidden in that thing.

• 3:27Josh Clark?

  That's funny.

• 3:28Speaker 03

  Welcome home, son. What's that smell?

• 3:34Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 3:35Speaker 03

  Oh, are you being the son? Were we act, play acting?

• 3:37Josh Clark?

  No, it just, it was that, that sip of coffee I just took went down the wrong, wrong pipe.

• 3:42Speaker 03

  The wrong pipe. Man, what is up with those faulty flaps?

• 3:45Josh Clark?

  I don't know, man. Probably too much gin.

• 3:49Speaker 03

  I love gin. And I love reading about it and researching it. And I might have a martini tonight as a result.

• 3:59Josh Clark?

  I don't think there's any way you could not have a martini after reading about gin for hours and hours and hours.

• 4:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, cause gin and tonic season is over for me sadly.

• 4:07Josh Clark?

  Oh yeah?

• 4:07Speaker 03

  And I'm into wine season, but wine season and martini season, there's some comorbidity there.

• 4:12Josh Clark?

  Martini season's year round.

• 4:14Speaker 03

  Eh, not for me. I mean, I don't drink that many martinis. It's a mood thing. Or if I'm with Hodgman, we pound them.

• 4:20Josh Clark?

  Sure. You can't not drink martinis when Hodgman's around.

• 4:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course. Yeah. No comment.

• 4:28Speaker 03

  But correct.

• 4:30Josh Clark?

  So, we're talking gin, because gin is great. We love gin. And it turns out gin's got a pretty, pretty interesting history to it.

• 4:39Speaker 03

  I think so, too.

• 4:40Josh Clark?

  And we did an episode not too long ago on, a short stuff, actually, on the difference between bourbon and whiskey, right?

• 4:48Speaker 03

  Has that been out yet even with the way our schedule works? I don't even know.

• 4:51Josh Clark?

  Oh, wait, it's coming out tomorrow now that I think about it. Yeah, yeah.

• 4:54Speaker 03

  Tomorrow is in today, or tomorrow's in after this is released?

• 4:57Josh Clark?

  Tomorrow is in, the people who are listening to this, the day it comes out, tomorrow to them. That very select group of humans, as far as the dimension of time goes.

• 5:06Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 5:07Josh Clark?

  So, tomorrow, everybody, you'll hear a short stuff about the difference between whiskey and bourbon. And one of the things that really stands out is there are a lot of laws surrounding whiskey, especially in the United States. What makes whiskey whiskey? What you can call a specific kind of whiskey? What you can put on the label of some kinds of whiskey? Lots and lots of laws exist.

• 5:30Speaker 03

  The law of the country? Don't forget that one.

• 5:33Josh Clark?

  The spirit of America. The native spirit of America. That's what it was.

• 5:39Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 5:40Josh Clark?

  But with gin, it's quite the opposite. Basically, as long as you have a neutral grain spirit that is distilled at, I think, 80 proof or higher, you can add whatever flavor you want to it, and that, you can call it gin.

• 5:58Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 5:59Josh Clark?

  Which is not, whatever you're, if you buy that thing that I just described, although it's technically, legally gin, it's not really gin. A lot of people call it flavored vodkas. But for gin, you, there are specific steps you want to follow, there are specific things you want to do. And more than anything, there's probably going to be a taste of juniper to it.

• 6:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, that is, that used to be very much the case. Uh, now, and we've talked a little bit about this on other episodes, just, uh, tangentially, I think. Is that there are many artisan gin makers now that are doing all kinds of crazy gins. And some, many, eschewing the juniper altogether. That beautiful little evergreen shrub.

• 6:43Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 6:44Speaker 03

  And those little cones that have that piney, uh, citrusy, peppery taste.

• 6:50Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 6:51Speaker 03

  That we love so much.

• 6:52Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 6:53Speaker 03

  Uh, by the way, I should say, our, our buddy, Ben Harrison.

• 6:56Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 6:57Speaker 03

  Of the Greatest Generation and Friendly Fire, he, I, I've seen this online elsewhere, but as far as he knows, he invented it. A smoked gin and tonic where he gets a little, uh, like a chef's torch.

• 7:10Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 7:11Speaker 03

  And smokes juniper berries.

• 7:13Josh Clark?

  Oh.

• 7:13Speaker 03

  And then throws the glass on top of it upside down.

• 7:17Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:17Speaker 03

  And lets it just smoke up. And then turns it over and adds the ice and the, uh, and the, the rest of the mix-ins there.

• 7:24Josh Clark?

  I would like to try that. I've had like smoked Manhattans and smoked whiskey drinks.

• 7:28Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah?

• 7:29Josh Clark?

  Wood smoked kind.

• 7:30Speaker 03

  And did they do the same thing?

• 7:32Josh Clark?

  Uh, yes, same, same process, but I've never, ever heard of a smoked gin and tonic, so hats off to Ben if he did invent that.

• 7:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was good. Uh, and I also want to, and I know shouted it out before, but, uh, I, I get this local tonic now that's delicious. That is the real deal, you know, the, uh, Chinchona bark.

• 7:51Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:52Speaker 03

  Um, and it's very different than if you're used to traditional like Schweppes tonic. Doesn't taste anything like that.

• 7:59Josh Clark?

  No.

• 8:00Speaker 03

  It's, uh, you cut it with, uh, soda water and it's a very, very lovely taste.

• 8:06Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, like good tonic water is just amazingly good.

• 8:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that's, you know, if you're talking about like Fever Tree will buzz mark it.

• 8:14Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 8:15Speaker 03

  Um, that is still a little more of a traditional tonic. This stuff is brown.

• 8:19Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 8:19Speaker 03

  Uh, and syrupy, and then you, you, you mix it with the soda and it's, it becomes sort of a real version of that stuff.

• 8:26Josh Clark?

  So it's probably very similar to stuff they were drinking in India in the 19th century.

• 8:30Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 8:32Josh Clark?

  So we'll go, we'll get all, we'll get to all that. Let's go back to gin.

• 8:35Speaker 03

  All right, so you start off, if you want to make gin, and I have a gin making kit from last Christmas. I still haven't used it. Um, this has inspired me to go home today and actually make my own gin.

• 8:46Josh Clark?

  And then pound it.

• 8:48Speaker 03

  I'll bring some in, we can all take a sip.

• 8:50Josh Clark?

  All right.

• 8:51Speaker 03

  Just a sip. But you start with that base spirit. Ethyl alcohol that's 96% ABV.

• 8:59Josh Clark?

  That you can power a car on.

• 9:01Speaker 03

  Yeah. And then you re-distill gin. And that is one of the keys here. A real gin. You re-distill that spirit with whatever botanicals you end up choosing.

• 9:13Josh Clark?

  Right, but typically, the main botanical that's used in the main flavor profile of gin, aside from alcohol that you can power your car on, is that juniper berry. That tastes of juniper, that kind of piney, evergreeny. Some people call it like drinking a Christmas tree. What makes gin gin? Once you've had a sip of gin, you will never mistake it for anything else for the rest of your life.

• 9:39Speaker 03

  That's right, and that base spirit can be...

• 9:42Josh Clark?

  Also, and you should also wait until you're 21 to have that sip of gin.

• 9:47Speaker 03

  That base spirit can be wheat, it can be rye, it can be corn, it can be barley. But it can be really anything. There, you can make potato gin or apple gin. I saw this company in Ireland, there was an article in Vice by Elizabeth Roche. Ireland's best gin is made out of milk.

• 10:06Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I saw that too.

• 10:07Speaker 03

  Bertha's Gin. They make it, and this is produced fully in Ireland, which is a great thing because it's a byproduct of cheesemaking, that whey.

• 10:17Speaker 03

  Sweet whey. They use that to make gin. It's crazy.

• 10:23Josh Clark?

  Yeah, they ferment the whey and then use that, they distill that fermented beer, basically. And then you distill that further in the process of, or the presence of botanicals, and then you have gin. It's just this multi-step process, but because you're starting out with such a ridiculously high-proof alcohol, like neutral alcohol, you can use basically an old shoe to make that neutral grain spirit. And it's going to taste virtually the same as neutral grain spirit made from, or neutral spirit made from barley, or from whey, or from potatoes, or grapes. It just is the alcoholic essence of those things.

• 11:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, and apparently that fermented whey is what makes Baileys as well.

• 11:10Speaker 03

  Which I didn't know.

• 11:11Josh Clark?

  Bailey's Irish whiskey?

• 11:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, fermented way.

• 11:14Josh Clark?

  Oh, that's cool. I did not know that either.

• 11:16Speaker 03

  Uh, and this, I gotta try this stuff, though. It's called Bertha's Revenge.

• 11:19Josh Clark?

  Or Bailey's Irish Cream, I'm sorry.

• 11:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, would you say Irish whiskey?

• 11:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 11:23Speaker 03

  No, no, it's the, it's the coffee additive.

• 11:25Josh Clark?

  That's that Conor McGregor stuff.

• 11:27Speaker 03

  For Grandma. Um, Bertha's Revenge, oh, it looks delicious, and it is,

• 11:32Speaker 03

  fully made in Ireland, and Bertha apparently is a, is a cow.

• 11:36Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm, I heard about her. Yeah, she, she died at like age forty-nine after giving birth to thirty-something calves over her lifespan. Yeah, she was a very prolific milk cow.

• 11:47Speaker 03

  In many ways.

• 11:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah, but they, um, they're not the only game in town making, uh, whey-based gin. There are others as well, but supposedly, again, it's, it's, they say that there's something in the whey that even once it's distilled into its spirit,

• 12:03Josh Clark?

  there's some, there's some mouthfeel to it or some flavor profile. The, a lot of people argue that that's just not the case, that no matter what you make it from, you're going to arrive at basically the same base neutral spirit. Okay?

• 12:16Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 12:17Josh Clark?

  We'll find out. Just let me have some, I'll try it.

• 12:21Speaker 03

  Uh, Bombay Sapphire, which we'll learn later on, um, perhaps kick-started the resurgence of gin.

• 12:27Josh Clark?

  Yeah, did you know that?

• 12:28Speaker 03

  In the United States. No, but it makes a little bit of sense.

• 12:31Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:31Speaker 03

  Now that I see the dates and the timelines of when it came over, but

• 12:34Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 12:35Speaker 03

  Uh, they very proudly displayed their ten different botanicals, uh, on the bottle. Licorice, juniper, of course, uh, kubeb berries,

• 12:44Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:44Speaker 03

  uh, angelica root, almonds, coriander, cassia bark, iris root, lemon peel, and grains of paradise.

• 12:51Josh Clark?

  Very nice.

• 12:52Speaker 03

  And I like a Bombay Sapphire martini. That's a, that's a good fallback for me, although I'm a Plymouth man through and through when it comes to martinis.

• 13:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 13:01Speaker 03

  And I like, uh, generally I like the Hendricks. And I like Tanqueray, good old fashioned Tanqueray for the tonics.

• 13:07Josh Clark?

  I'll get a Hendricks martini when I'm out and about. But if I'm like making it myself, I used to like the more boring, straightforward London Dry Gins, right? The traditional ones for the martini. And then I realized like, no, man, you want to go the exact opposite of that. You want like the most botanical gin you can find for a gin martini because, I mean, it's basically gin with a little bit of vermouth, right? So you want to taste your gin. So I've kind of gravitated toward stuff like the Botanist. Or St. George's Botanovore. Those are two really, really like, I guess botanical is the best way to put it. Gins that are out there that are really, really tasty.

• 13:51Speaker 03

  Is that the St. George that tastes like feet?

• 13:54Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so no, that is their aged, like reposado gin.

• 13:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, that I didn't love that.

• 14:00Josh Clark?

  Where they made it like, it was like kind of a mezcal or aged tequila style gin. Where it was gin, but it had like some quality of like really like long aged tequila. I think you weren't prepared for it. I wonder if you'd like it now, knowing like what it was going into it.

• 14:20Speaker 03

  Maybe, I mean, I'm always hip to try something, but I'd love a good, high quality London Dry Gin. That's my jam.

• 14:26Josh Clark?

  Sure, I mean, I'm with you. I just like the more botanical ones these days than I used to.

• 14:31Speaker 03

  The Britannical?

• 14:33Josh Clark?

  The pure botanical ones, the ones that don't have any alcohol at all.

• 14:36Speaker 03

  So I think we should quickly talk about, before we take our first break, about just how you distill it. Cause there's a couple of ways.

• 14:45Speaker 03

  And then we'll take our break, but the first way is steeping. And that is, you know, you steep tea and it's the same thing, basically. You have your base spirit heating up and it simmers. And then you have those botanicals right in there and the oils are releasing. And it's just infusing through the whole thing.

• 15:02Josh Clark?

  Exactly.

• 15:03Speaker 03

  The other way, and you know, Emily has a still now, I'd love to maybe get in there and try some of this for real.

• 15:07Josh Clark?

  I did not know that. Does she like carry a Tommy gun around and wear a Floraling fur coat?

• 15:13Speaker 03

  No, she's got a copper still. She's, uh, she goes to Athens, Georgia, once a week to harvest herbs and then distills herbs for her products.

• 15:22Josh Clark?

  I did know that.

• 15:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's very cool.

• 15:24Josh Clark?

  That is super cool.

• 15:25Speaker 03

  It's a lot of fun to see her out there doing that stuff.

• 15:27Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's neat.

• 15:28Speaker 03

  Uh, and then the other way is vapor infusion. And that is what Bombay Sapphire does, and that is when you have the botanicals in a basket hanging above the boiling spirit and that vapor rises and it does it more through like that steam, I guess.

• 15:44Josh Clark?

  Right. So, or you can combine the two, which is what another kind of St. George gin, Terroir, um, does, where they use the steeping method for most of the botanicals. And then they use the vapor method for, I think, like Douglas fir and bay laurel leaves. So it's, it's got like kind of the tea of botanicals brewing and then it's just vaporizing through those other, those last two.

• 16:08Speaker 03

  So cool.

• 16:09Josh Clark?

  It is pretty cool, actually.

• 16:11Speaker 03

  All right. Now we'll take a break and we'll come back and talk a little bit about the types of gin, uh, which also entails some history, right after this.

• 16:35Josh Clark?

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• 19:44Josh Clark?

  Okay, we've taken our break. We had our little half sandwiches. And we're ready to talk about gin some more.

• 19:49Speaker 03

  I can't believe you still cut the crust off. That's very interesting for a grown man.

• 19:52Josh Clark?

  Well, I just think it's a little, it always has like a, I guess a crusty taste to it that I'm not fond of.

• 19:58Speaker 03

  Hey, I've always maintained if they didn't call it crust, kids might eat it.

• 20:02Josh Clark?

  Do you think?

• 20:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think if you said, you know, the, do you want the magic ring left on your bread? I think kids would probably have a whole different view, but if you say, do you want the crust?

• 20:13Josh Clark?

  I disagree. I think that magic ring would be a gross term now. Be like, look at that magic ringy old guy. He keeps staring at us.

• 20:23Speaker 03

  Well, just insert Josh Clark's magic word of choice.

• 20:28Josh Clark?

  Magic ringy?

• 20:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, it doesn't even have to use the word magic, but what would you call crust that sounds better to a kid?

• 20:34Josh Clark?

  I'm saying, no matter what you called it, I think it would become synonymous with something gross.

• 20:39Speaker 03

  I know, but I'm asking you to yes and this.

• 20:42Josh Clark?

  Fine, let's see. Uh, yes and is not my strong suit. I failed out of improv.

• 20:47Speaker 03

  Yours is more no but.

• 20:48Josh Clark?

  Right, no. There's no but. It's no, here's why you're wrong.

• 20:54Josh Clark?

  The, um, the rainbow ring.

• 20:56Speaker 03

  Okay, great.

• 20:57Josh Clark?

  The rainbow circle.

• 20:58Speaker 03

  I love it.

• 20:59Josh Clark?

  I don't like it. I'll go back and edit this part out.

• 21:02Speaker 03

  All right, so let's talk about gin. We already talked about the fact that it has to be, if you ask me, really distilled with these botanicals to be real gin.

• 21:13Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 21:13Speaker 03

  Otherwise flavored vodka, that name is, uh, can come up, and that's a dirty word.

• 21:18Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 21:19Speaker 03

  But distilled London Dry Gin, uh, some of the big, big cats, Beef Eater and Gordon's and Tanqueray, are some of those, those big daddy London dries. Like I said, I'm a Plymouth guy.

• 21:32Josh Clark?

  I like Plymouth too.

• 21:33Speaker 03

  Yeah? But these are not sweet. That's why they're called dry gins.

• 21:38Josh Clark?

  Right, sweet gins are, um, have a long history and they actually predate gin for, uh, for, by many, many years, but the London Dry Gin is what most people think of when they, when they think of gin. And a London Dry Gin is actually a subcategory of a larger category, which is distilled gin. You got gin, which is basically flavored vodkas, which you could literally put any flavor into this neutral spirit and call it gin. Distilled gin means it went through that process like we described before the break. And London Dry is one of those.

• 22:12Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 22:13Josh Clark?

  Right?

• 22:14Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 22:15Josh Clark?

  Is that basically what you just said?

• 22:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:17Josh Clark?

  I mean, I was listening and following it, but it just seemed off.

• 22:20Speaker 03

  Oh, interesting. Well, I'm glad you cleared that up.

• 22:22Josh Clark?

  I'm sorry about that.

• 22:23Speaker 03

  That's all right. Uh, then we get to Old Tom Gin, and this has an interesting history of its etymology. Um, and I got this from, uh, Mark, uh, Veerthaler at TalesOfTheCocktail.com. Apparently the name Old Tom comes from, uh, these plaques that hung outside of pubs that look like there, there was like the shape of an old tomcat's head. And get this, and this is amazing. Apparently, uh, in London, if you had this sign hanging up in the window, underneath the cat's paw was a slot and a lead pipe attached to a funnel. And you could go down the street in England and drop a coin in the slot and get a shot of gin in your mouth.

• 23:07Josh Clark?

  Yeah, from under the cat's paw.

• 23:09Speaker 03

  Amazing.

• 23:10Josh Clark?

  I saw that too. I saw that it originated, Chuck, with this guy named Captain Dudley Bradstreet. And the whole reason he started doing this was because there was a law that said that the informant had to know the name of the person who was selling the illegal gin for the cops to have probable cause to raid a place.

• 23:29Speaker 03

  Oh, interesting.

• 23:30Josh Clark?

  So he holed himself up in this house on this one alley, Blue Anchor Alley, and started selling gin that way anonymously. And because no one knew who was selling it, the cops could never raid the place.

• 23:42Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 23:43Josh Clark?

  But yeah, it was under the paw of an old, like a statue or sign or something of an old paw or an old tomcat.

• 23:51Speaker 03

  I love it.

• 23:52Josh Clark?

  I do too, man.

• 23:52Speaker 03

  Old Tom went away. It was very much sweeter. That was when they were using sugar and a lot of botanicals because the base spirit wasn't that great taste wise.

• 24:01Josh Clark?

  Mm hmm.

• 24:02Speaker 03

  So they loaded it up with sugar and this other stuff and prohibition basically killed Old Tom Gin for a long time. By the time people started, you know, prohibition was over, they didn't really have a taste for it anymore. And it has, it has made a comeback in recent years, though. A bit of a comeback.

• 24:20Josh Clark?

  You, if you are interested in trying, you should start with Ransom's Old Tom Gin.

• 24:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:25Josh Clark?

  It's just beautiful stuff.

• 24:26Speaker 03

  Is it good?

• 24:27Josh Clark?

  Mm hmm.

• 24:28Speaker 03

  Uh, what about Navy Strength Gin?

• 24:30Josh Clark?

  I love that stuff. Have you ever had that?

• 24:32Speaker 03

  Nah, I don't know if I have or not, actually.

• 24:34Josh Clark?

  It will make you blind.

• 24:36Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 24:37Josh Clark?

  Your hangover is noticeably worse the next day for the same amount of booze. It's just

• 24:44Speaker 03

  What's a brand?

• 24:45Josh Clark?

  Stronger stuff. I think Anchor. I believe Anchor makes a Navy Strength Gin.

• 24:50Speaker 03

  That would make sense.

• 24:51Josh Clark?

  Um, I'm almost positive that's whose I've had, but it's, it's just like this higher proof. I think like gin can be as low as like thirty seven and a half percent and Navy Strength is at least fifty, fifty percent.

• 25:05Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 25:06Josh Clark?

  And there's just a noticeable difference in it. And the taste is, it's, you know, it's not terribly much different. It's just the potency of it, but it's

• 25:15Speaker 03

  Gotcha.

• 25:15Josh Clark?

  It got its name from a pretty great little legend, from what I understand.

• 25:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's in the Navy. They, they loved them some gin in the Navy and they actually got gin rations. And so sailors would test it out to see if it was, you know, up to snuff or if it was watered down. And they would drizzle it over a little pinch of gunpowder and then light it. And if it lit, then it was Navy Strength.

• 25:38Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 25:39Speaker 03

  I love it.

• 25:40Josh Clark?

  And it's not like a legal classification or anything, is it? It's just kind of like a

• 25:44Speaker 03

  Well, it says, it says Navy Strength Gin is at least fifty seven point one percent. So that leaves, I don't know if there's a law in the EU or if that's just a sort of a standard.

• 25:55Josh Clark?

  But that's, that's where the name came from at least.

• 25:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:58Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And it's potent stuff.

• 26:00Speaker 03

  What about Geneva?

• 26:02Josh Clark?

  So that is basically like the predecessor of gin, right? I mean, this Dutch drink that was first drunk to, for people to get drunk off of?

• 26:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's made more out of a malt wine. I think 15 to 50% malt wine.

• 26:17Speaker 03

  And so it, you know, it can kind of, it's sort of like the maltiness of a whiskey, but the botanicals of a gin.

• 26:23Josh Clark?

  I think, I've always heard that Old Tom and Geneva are a lot alike.

• 26:27Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 26:28Josh Clark?

  Yeah, they bear a resemblance.

• 26:29Speaker 03

  Oh, interesting.

• 26:31Josh Clark?

  But, um, so Geneva is like a pretty good place to start as far as this history of gin goes. Because it was, like I was saying, like a proto gin, like one of the first, I guess the direct predecessor of gin as we understand it today. But even further back than that, that essential component of gin, the juniper berry, has been used at least since the 70s. And not the 1970s, I mean, just the straight up 70s. There's a recipe from Polynne the Elder from 76 or 77 CE that used juniper berries. And you just were supposed to boil some white wine with juniper berries and then drink it. And it was a curative and probably got you pretty drunk.

• 27:17Josh Clark?

  And then I thought about this, this was like two years before he died in the eruption of Vesuvius.

• 27:23Speaker 03

  Oh, interesting.

• 27:24Josh Clark?

  Isn't that weird, kind of chilling?

• 27:25Speaker 03

  Well, at least he had a nice couple of years there at the end.

• 27:28Josh Clark?

  He definitely did.

• 27:29Speaker 03

  The word Geneva, G E N E V E R, is actually Dutch for juniper. And it is, it does come hail from Holland. And apparently in the 13th and 14th centuries, these, and this was when people were using herbs as medicine. They, you know, obviously still do that today, that's what Emily's doing. But apothecaries there were experimenting with all kinds of curative herbs and medical tonics and stuff like that. And juniper was definitely in that category. But where Geneva took a right turn was they said, wow, let's just get drunk. And like, it's not so much a cure-all, but, uh, I mean, maybe, maybe it cures some things. But it was a, it was a drink that you drank to get drunk.

• 28:15Josh Clark?

  It was like, yeah, the first spirit out of, I believe, out of Europe for that people drank. I mean, they had beer and wine and everything before, but Geneva was like this. The like the the first hard liquor, I think, that people really drank. And like you said, it was a malted wine, right?

• 28:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's the base.

• 28:31Josh Clark?

  Which sounds like something you buy in a convenience store.

• 28:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:34Josh Clark?

  Drink out of a paper bag, like malted wine. But they would add like sugar to it and it had juniper, which is why a lot of people say this is the direct predecessor of gin. And it was how the UK was introduced to gin, was Geneva. Because I think in the 15th century, maybe, something like that.

• 28:55Speaker 03

  16th.

• 28:56Josh Clark?

  The 16th century, Queen Elizabeth the first sent some of her royal soldiers to the Netherlands to fight alongside the Dutch when they were fighting for independence. And the Dutch said, hey, man, take a couple of shots of this Geneva and you'll you'll fight anybody. You won't be scared at all. And the English liked that a lot. And so they brought Geneva back with them, or a taste for it at least. And Geneva eventually got shortened to gin. That's where we got the word gin from.

• 29:24Speaker 03

  That's right. And about, uh, close to 100 years later, the end of the Anglo-Dutch war meant you could actually import it legally by the barrel. And they were called strong water shops was what the early liquor stores in London were called. I love that.

• 29:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 29:39Speaker 03

  I'm sure there are places in America where they have ganked that title.

• 29:43Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah. And they also wear arm garters.

• 29:45Speaker 03

  Probably so.

• 29:47Josh Clark?

  I'm so glad you taught me that word because I've always just called it, you know, those like

• 29:50Speaker 03

  The arm garter?

• 29:51Josh Clark?

  Full-timey armbands. And it never had quite the punch.

• 29:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, arm garters. The the first gin distillery in Britain, um, in Plymouth, right?

• 30:05Josh Clark?

  Okay, I'm I had a lot of trouble figuring this one out. I saw that in 1840, Booths was the first

• 30:12Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 30:13Josh Clark?

  gin distiller.

• 30:14Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 30:15Josh Clark?

  But and that the Plymouth one was Oh, wait, maybe that was like the 1700s. I'm not sure. There was a big rush to establishing gin distilleries in this period that we're talking about.

• 30:29Speaker 03

  All right. Well, I don't have a date for the Plymouth one, actually.

• 30:32Josh Clark?

  Let me look it up while you're talking.

• 30:33Speaker 03

  All right. Well, let's flash forward then to the gin craze because gin, depending on who you're asking, was the crack of the 1600s in England. William of Orange, Protestant king of the Netherlands, went to assume the throne of Great Britain during the Glorious Revolution. And they were drinking that Geneva, and they loved it as royalty. But the working class could not afford this stuff. So they started making their own rot gut like bathtub gin.

• 31:07Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 31:07Speaker 03

  And apparently bathtub gin is, it is not brewed, or not brewed, it's not distilled in a bathtub. It can be mixed with botanicals in a bathtub. But from what I saw, the main reason it's called bathtub gin is because to water it down and top it off with water, you couldn't fit it in these bottles in a sink. So you had to do that in a bathtub.

• 31:27Josh Clark?

  Oh, okay.

• 31:28Speaker 03

  But I think they were mixing up botanicals and stuff too. But at any rate, this rot gut gin in 17, in the early 1700s, and by the mid 1700s, there was a full on gin problem in the UK.

• 31:43Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it was called the gin craze. And like, especially if you read like, kind of the, the tracks railing against it at the time, and newspaper editorials and, and stories about just the depravity that was going on because of gin. Like, the whole country was just totally off its rocker on gin. And not even like, good gin, or even Geneva. This bathtub rot gut stuff that you were talking about, where they would add things like turpentine to give it a piney flavor, because they didn't have juniper berries. They would add sulfuric acid to give it a hot aftertaste like it was supposed to have. Just really, really bad stuff. And it was making people crazy.

• 32:25Josh Clark?

  And there were, there were stories about mothers who, there was a woman named, Judith de Four, who killed her own daughter so that she could sell her clothes to buy more gin. Her parents like selling their kids into slavery to buy more gin. Um, you know, people turning into sex workers just to get gin money. Um, and just supposedly, it was like you said, it was just like, like the crack epidemic and the same kind of response to it as well. Here in the United States, but this is gin back in the early 18th century.

• 32:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, and, and for sure, there was a gin problem. Um, now historians look back a little bit and they're like, you know what? These articles were written and these, uh, op-eds were written by the upper class in Britain. And they had basically an obsession with the, the English character being degraded and dragged through the mud by these gin drunks. Um, so take it with a grain of salt. There for sure was a gin problem, but there basically like was, is, is a chicken or an egg thing going on.

• 33:25Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 33:26Speaker 03

  Cause they're like, urbanization is going rampant in London at the time. And was the gin craze a product of this poverty, uh, or the cause of it? And by all accounts these days, it looks like it was sort of a product of it.

• 33:39Josh Clark?

  I saw that there were at least two documented cases of spontaneous human combustion.

• 33:44Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 33:45Josh Clark?

  From drinking this gin.

• 33:46Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 33:47Josh Clark?

  Isn't that crazy?

• 33:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:49Josh Clark?

  It's some hardcore gin.

• 33:52Speaker 03

  Geez, uh, there were eight different gin acts from Parliament over about a, uh, 22 year period. Uh, basically, I mean, they said different things, but one of the big ones was, hey, you can't put these, you can't put sulfuric acid in this stuff and sell it anymore.

• 34:09Josh Clark?

  Right, and little by little, these incremental laws over these eight acts like, made it really expensive to have a license to sell gin, really expensive to import neutral spirits. Um, and just basically made it so that unless you owned a large distillery and an established like tavern, you could not legally, um, engage in, in selling or producing gin.

• 34:33Speaker 03

  In ginnery?

• 34:35Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 34:36Speaker 03

  I think that's what it said in the act.

• 34:38Josh Clark?

  In ginnery?

• 34:39Speaker 03

  Yes, thou shalt not partake in ginnery of any kind.

• 34:43Josh Clark?

  Right, okay, so, uh, especially if your name is my cocaine.

• 34:46Speaker 03

  Oh, you finally did it.

• 34:50Josh Clark?

  Did I do it? If I did, it was accidental.

• 34:52Speaker 03

  No, you didn't.

• 34:53Josh Clark?

  Okay, so, but over the course of these acts, it left just like these handful of huge distilleries like Booth's, Plymouth, Plymouth, by the way, was the first. It was in the late 18th century.

• 35:03Speaker 03

  Oh, nice.

• 35:05Josh Clark?

  And a couple of others, I think Bootles might have been around by then. But all the small distilleries went away just by law. And so when this artisanal revolution that we're currently going in, that's going on now, swept over to England, this, this company called Sip Smith's went to go start their own. And they found out that they couldn't by law. That was 200 years old. So they had to lobby and they were the first company in 200 years to get a license to brews or distill small batch gin in England.

• 35:39Speaker 03

  Amazing.

• 35:40Josh Clark?

  Because of those gin acts.

• 35:42Speaker 03

  That's pretty great.

• 35:43Josh Clark?

  I think so, too.

• 35:44Speaker 03

  All right, well, let's take another little break here. And we'll talk more about gin right after this.

• 36:06Josh Clark?

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• 36:28Josh Clark?

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• 37:08Josh Clark?

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• 37:32Speaker 02

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• 37:45Josh Clark?

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• 38:01Josh Clark?

  World Mental Health Day takes place in October, and it's really meant to be more than just awareness. It's about actually taking the next step and getting support if you need it.

• 38:10Speaker 02

  But a lot of people still talk themselves out of therapy. They think it's too expensive. They're not sure if it'll actually work. They don't know how to find the right therapist, or they just get overwhelmed trying to navigate the whole system.

• 38:20Josh Clark?

  And that's exactly what Rula is built to fix. Rula makes therapy feel a lot more approachable, a lot more human. You can find a therapist who actually fits your needs, not just whoever's available. And with insurance, sessions average around $15 copay.

• 38:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can sign up in just a few minutes. You can get matched with the right provider and even book something as soon as the next day.

• 38:40Josh Clark?

  And it's not just about starting. Rula helps you stay consistent and actually make progress because taking care of your mental health isn't a one-time thing. So if you've been thinking about therapy, don't talk yourself out of it. This is a really easy way to take that first step.

• 38:52Speaker 02

  So turn off the talk track that's keeping you from progress and head to rula.com. That is R-U-L-A dot com to find a therapist the easy way.

• 39:16Speaker 03

  All right, so gin is going strong in the 1700s. Some might say it's a problem. Flash forward to the 1800s, 1830, and the invention of the continuous still came about.

• 39:31Josh Clark?

  That's pretty big.

• 39:32Speaker 03

  If you come over to my house, you see Emily down there, she doesn't have it, she has a traditional copper pot still, which means that you can do one thing at a time, basically. You boil your mash and the alcohol, boil that off, you collect that distilled spirit in the end, but then you gotta start all over again. The continuous still was a very, and the other bad part about that is, is your ABV is gonna be pretty low.

• 39:58Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 39:58Speaker 03

  If you're doing the single pot.

• 40:00Josh Clark?

  That's your alcohol by volume.

• 40:02Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 40:02Josh Clark?

  Because the longer it was, say, distilled, the purer and more alcoholic the ultimate spirit you captured would be, right?

• 40:10Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 40:11Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 40:11Speaker 03

  So if you have a continuous still, which was what was invented in 1830, that means you can just keep going, man. You just keep throwing that mash in there, and you keep that process going, and you get more and more pure as you go, and you're gonna get that beautiful, clear, grain alcohol around 96% in the end. And that really, really changed the game.

• 40:31Josh Clark?

  Yeah, because, so, like, these continuous stills, or coffee stills, after the man who invented them, it's like, the spirit rises through increasingly higher up stages, and it's reheated and heated and heated, and so it becomes purer and purer the higher up it goes, and then eventually it gets tapped off, and then you have that high-test alcohol. And because you could get pure alcohol to use as the base spirit for gin, you had less of a funky, foul, nasty taste that you needed to cover up with stuff like botanicals, or sugar, or turpentine, which meant that you could produce gin with a much purer gin that

• 41:16Josh Clark?

  eventually evolved into London Dry Gin.

• 41:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, and London Dry Gin, again, with the dry, that means it's not as sugary. Apparently Victorians in the upper class at one point decided to...

• 41:29Speaker 03

  Basically lower their sugar intake. I don't know if that was just a major health kick going on.

• 41:35Josh Clark?

  It sounds like John Harvey Kellogg's work here.

• 41:38Speaker 03

  Oh, maybe so. But that's when they started getting rid of the sugar. And that's why you get this drier version, which became the London Dry Gin.

• 41:45Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 41:45Speaker 03

  And the rest is history. They started producing some really high quality gins in England at the time.

• 41:54Josh Clark?

  Yeah, they did. I think that's when the like booths and bootles and all those guys started.

• 41:59Speaker 03

  Beef Eater?

• 41:59Josh Clark?

  Beef Eater.

• 42:01Speaker 03

  Gordons?

• 42:01Josh Clark?

  That was great. That was fine for a while. Like, like you said, the, the Navy was getting their rations and then going out to sea with their gin and testing it on gunpowder and all of that. But one of the things that you'll, you'll look at, especially with the London Dry Gin, is while there's no sugar, there's like a really interesting combination of those botanicals. And botanical, we didn't really say, but I think it's kind of self evident. It's any kind of like root, plant, seed, leaf, stem, bark, whatever, that's used to add a particular flavor profile to gin. Typically juniper is like the chief botanical in a gin. But if you look at like these lists of botanicals that are frequently used in London Dry Gin,

• 42:46Josh Clark?

  they come from all over the world. And it's no coincidence that England was at the height of its imperial colonial power at a time when London Dry Gin developed because it was in a position to bring all these ingredients from all over the world to the distilleries that had set up shop in London.

• 43:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I think even the Bombay Sapphire has each country listed behind the botanical. And it's the, you know, they're all from 10 different places or 11 different places.

• 43:14Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 43:14Speaker 03

  Pretty cool.

• 43:15Josh Clark?

  It is pretty cool.

• 43:16Speaker 03

  So the seafaring of the Brits, British Seapower, have you ever heard of that band?

• 43:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah, very good.

• 43:22Speaker 03

  I used to love those guys.

• 43:24Josh Clark?

  They were like early 2000s, right?

• 43:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was a big LA band for me.

• 43:29Josh Clark?

  Oh, okay. I didn't know where they were from.

• 43:30Speaker 03

  No, no, no, that when I lived in LA.

• 43:32Josh Clark?

  Oh, I see.

• 43:33Speaker 03

  They're British.

• 43:34Josh Clark?

  I always think so. They were from like the era of like of Montreal. And Someone Still Loves You, Boris Yeltsin and all those kind of indie bands at the same time, right?

• 43:43Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Love those guys.

• 43:45Josh Clark?

  British sea power.

• 43:46Speaker 03

  But the that had a lot to do with gin because the Brits and their navy were very strong and they sailed a lot and traveled all over the world, obviously. Because they had certain interests like conquering your country and making it their own.

• 43:59Josh Clark?

  And getting their hands on your botanicals.

• 44:01Speaker 03

  That's right. And also getting there until like, let's say, the tropics. And saying like, wow, I've never been here before. What are what are these things that we can eat and drink? And what is this disease malaria? I don't want to get that. And so they looked at the, you know, the people from there, obviously, to get their clue on. Like, they're fine.

• 44:23Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 44:23Speaker 03

  How can we be like them? And the natives of South America chewed on that chinchona tree. And that bark to combat malaria. And chinchona is pretty wondrous. That bark has a natural chemical. And that is the quinine that you hear, you know, if you look at a tonic bottle, it's contains quinine. And it calms your, you know, it makes you feel better if you have malaria. But it also disrupts the metabolism of the parasite and kills it. So it's a medicament as well as a help you feel better type thing.

• 44:55Josh Clark?

  Ooh la la.

• 44:57Speaker 03

  What?

• 44:58Josh Clark?

  Medicament. I'm in a predicament because my heart's all aflutter.

• 45:06Josh Clark?

  Something just happened to me.

• 45:07Speaker 03

  But these doctors were like, hey, yeah, you British soldier. You should, they started prescribing this stuff, this chinchona bark. And colonists in India and South America. And they were eating a ton of it, 700 tons, actually, in the 1840s. 700 tons of chinchona bark a year were being eaten by British soldiers and settlers.

• 45:29Josh Clark?

  Yep. And so they figured out how to, I guess, distill quinine. Probably using a coffee still. And started putting it into tonic, like making this tonic water. But basically, I'm sure what you're buying. Is just distilled quinine from the chinchona bark.

• 45:47Josh Clark?

  It's gotta be, right? I mean, that's

• 45:49Speaker 03

  I think I'm gonna look at the other stuff in there and maybe I'll follow up with some ingredients.

• 45:53Josh Clark?

  Okay, do, and bring me some too, please.

• 45:55Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 45:56Josh Clark?

  Um, but so with quinine, like you were, you were basically taking a dose of quinine in a shot of tonic water. And so because everybody was sailing around the world on British ships with gin in one hand and tonic water in the other hand, they eventually put the two together and came up with the gin and tonic. Throw a lemon or a lime slice in there to combat scurvy and you have a complete drink.

• 46:20Speaker 03

  That's amazing.

• 46:21Josh Clark?

  It is.

• 46:22Speaker 03

  Uh, and apparently a lot of these gin cocktails were born out of the, the nasty taste of the original alcohol.

• 46:30Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:30Speaker 03

  So they, you know, we were talking about that rot gut gin. What do you do? You're gonna mix it with a lot of stuff to try and make it more drinkable.

• 46:37Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 46:38Speaker 03

  Um, that is not the martini, however. This is a pretty neat story. Uh, in the 1870s and 80s is when martinis were born. And, uh, this is from a gentleman named Richard Barnett. And this makes so much sense. It's very cool. He said, "The martini is an embodiment of American history at its most averse. Dutch and English gin mixed with French vermouth, served with Mediterranean olives, German Jewish pickled onions, or Caribbean lemons."

• 47:05Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 47:06Speaker 03

  And that glass, which by the way, one of my more, uh, annoyances in life, uh, biggest annoyances is when you get a martini these days in some weird glass.

• 47:16Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 47:16Speaker 03

  Just get a martini glass.

• 47:18Josh Clark?

  But do you like the big honkin' 90s Karen from Will and Grace style martini glasses?

• 47:24Speaker 03

  I do.

• 47:24Josh Clark?

  Or like the classic 60s, you know, Mad Men martini glass?

• 47:28Speaker 03

  Uh, well, okay.

• 47:30Josh Clark?

  More compact version?

• 47:31Speaker 03

  I, I like them both. I'll, I'll take a, I'll take either one, but just give me that conical glass.

• 47:36Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 47:37Speaker 03

  Don't give me like a tulip glass.

• 47:40Josh Clark?

  I've not seen a martini in a tulip glass.

• 47:42Speaker 03

  I have. There are places around town that serve them in these little tulip glasses and like, just do it right.

• 47:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah, do it right. I mean, it's a, it's literally called a martini glass. It's the glass meant for it.

• 47:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's just like serving a margarita in a Well, you can serve a margarita in a lot of different things, I guess.

• 47:59Josh Clark?

  Sure, you can just cup your hands and drink a margarita out of there. And people have, including me.

• 48:05Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 48:07Josh Clark?

  You can, you can get the margarita ingredients poured down your throat. You don't even need to use your hands.

• 48:12Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 48:13Josh Clark?

  At Senior Frog's.

• 48:15Speaker 03

  The 1920s is when the gin craze kind of was re-kickstarted again. Uh, because of prohibition. And they even went back to putting like disgusting ingredients in there.

• 48:27Josh Clark?

  Yeah, you mean like, not the gin craze like, oh, everybody likes gin. Like the gin craze, like everybody's going bonkers because of the terrible gin they're drinking, right?

• 48:35Speaker 03

  Well, and everyone's drinking gin because it was, uh, it wasn't just straight up ethyl alcohol from a moonshine or like, hey, at least let's throw some, uh, quote unquote, ingredients in here.

• 48:48Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, turpentine again.

• 48:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:50Josh Clark?

  They use the same stuff that they used in the original gin craze. Sulfuric acid and turpentine.

• 48:55Speaker 03

  I know, isn't that gross?

• 48:56Josh Clark?

  It's a classic recipe.

• 48:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:59Josh Clark?

  Gross, dude.

• 49:01Speaker 03

  Uh, what else was made? The Manhattan, the Gin Fizz, the Gimlet?

• 49:04Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 49:05Speaker 03

  These are all born out of that, uh, sort of 1930s post-prohibition cocktail movement.

• 49:12Josh Clark?

  Yeah, we talked a lot about the origin of some of those drinks in that How Bars Work Live episode, if I remember correctly.

• 49:17Speaker 03

  Those are very first shows.

• 49:19Josh Clark?

  But it's funny to think like, some of our favorite cocktails were built to combat the tastes of nasty gin.

• 49:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:28Josh Clark?

  Which is why people are like, oh yeah, don't, don't use the good stuff to mix. Like, the whole reason for mixing is to, to cover up the nasty stuff.

• 49:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:36Josh Clark?

  Just drink the good stuff straight. Although I cannot imagine just drinking like, like a neat room temperature gin. That does not sound good to me.

• 49:44Speaker 03

  Well, let me tell you the story of my first gin experience. Uh, in Athens in college. And, and Dave Ruse put this article together for us and he very astutely points out that- If you're a child of the seventies and eighties, you probably didn't drink like a gin and tonic early on. Like, this is something you may have picked up on later. And that was the case for me. It was late college, and there was a fellow waiter at Mexicali Grill that was there for just a brief period named Don. Can't remember the guy's last name.

• 50:12Josh Clark?

  It doesn't matter.

• 50:13Speaker 03

  And Don and I ended up out on the river, late night,

• 50:19Speaker 03

  at Okoni Springs Park with a half gallon of Seagram's Gin.

• 50:23Josh Clark?

  Oh, my god.

• 50:24Speaker 03

  Just took it too far, and we're drinking it right out of the bottle and wading out into the river, and not being very safe, quite frankly.

• 50:32Josh Clark?

  It doesn't sound like you.

• 50:33Speaker 03

  But I'll always remember Don for that. He introduced me to gin, and he introduced me, unsuccessfully, to the Dave Matthews Band.

• 50:42Josh Clark?

  It didn't stick, huh?

• 50:42Speaker 03

  I don't know why those always stick out to me, but Don was the first guy who's like, "Man, this band is playing across the street, and it's crazy, it's kind of jazzy, and they're multiracial, and it's like, you never heard anything like it." And that was Dave Matthews Band.

• 50:55Josh Clark?

  Yeah, he was right about that.

• 50:56Speaker 03

  He was factually correct about two things.

• 51:01Speaker 03

  He's jazzy and multiracial.

• 51:02Josh Clark?

  Man, Seagram's right out of the handle, huh?

• 51:05Speaker 03

  Ooh, boy, it was bad. But I remember very distinctly, like, tasting that piney gin, and thinking like, "Ooh, this isn't a good thing to drink like this."

• 51:14Josh Clark?

  No, it took me many years to finally come around to gin and be like, "Oh, okay." I liked vodka martinis for, that was one of my first drinks ever, was vodka martinis.

• 51:24Speaker 03

  When you were thirteen?

• 51:25Josh Clark?

  Yeah, pretty much. In my treehouse, I was smoking cigarettes and drinking vodka martinis the summer before ninth grade. But, like, I, so I would drink vodka martinis. It wasn't like I just couldn't take the taste of, like, straight up alcohol, but for some reason, I did not like gin. And then I finally gave it a chance. I was like, "Actually, this is way better than vodka."

• 51:47Speaker 03

  I've never been a vodka guy.

• 51:48Josh Clark?

  Unless you're talking about that delightful birthday cake flavored vodka.

• 51:52Speaker 03

  Is that a thing?

• 51:54Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 51:55Speaker 03

  The...

• 51:56Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Hey, we don't judge, man, if that's what you like.

• 51:58Speaker 03

  Oh, sure. Of course.

• 52:01Speaker 03

  Gin is making a big comeback now, though, like we said. It may have started in the late 90s when Bombay Sapphire first came to the US.

• 52:08Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 52:08Speaker 03

  Apparently it was a pretty big hit. Then Hendrix came along in the US in 2003.

• 52:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 52:15Speaker 03

  Love that Hendrix. We're saying as many brands as possible, so...

• 52:18Josh Clark?

  In the hopes that they'll send us free stuff.

• 52:21Speaker 03

  We get a lot of whiskey, but we never get gin.

• 52:23Josh Clark?

  Yeah, no, no. Every once in a while, we've gotten gin, but not ever... No, not really.

• 52:28Speaker 03

  But the Genescent is on still.

• 52:31Josh Clark?

  Nice. Did you just coin that?

• 52:32Speaker 03

  I did.

• 52:33Josh Clark?

  That was really good.

• 52:34Speaker 03

  Thanks.

• 52:35Josh Clark?

  Genescent and medicant.

• 52:38Speaker 03

  Medicament.

• 52:39Josh Clark?

  Medic... Oh, even better.

• 52:40Speaker 03

  That's a real word, though. I didn't make that up.

• 52:42Josh Clark?

  I know, but you just pull it out of the ether. It's great.

• 52:49Speaker 03

  Fantastic. Do you got anything else?

• 52:52Josh Clark?

  No, I thought you were still going, and I'd interrupted you, and you're gonna pick up again. You'd think after like 12 years of doing this, we would have had that figured out by now.

• 52:59Speaker 03

  Oh, I got nothing else.

• 53:01Josh Clark?

  I don't have anything else either, except that gin is great.

• 53:04Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:05Josh Clark?

  It is great stuff.

• 53:06Speaker 03

  If you're of legal age.

• 53:09Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 53:09Speaker 03

  Drink responsibly.

• 53:10Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 53:11Speaker 03

  Don't drive, certainly.

• 53:12Josh Clark?

  Nope.

• 53:13Speaker 03

  Make it real easy on you to not drive these days.

• 53:16Josh Clark?

  Yeah, man.

• 53:16Speaker 03

  Take advantage of it.

• 53:17Josh Clark?

  Ride-hailing apps, you have zero excuse these days.

• 53:20Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 53:21Josh Clark?

  Well, if you want to know more about gin, well, again, I guess if you're 21, give it a try. See what happens. But like Chuck said, drink responsibly. If you're not 21, you're gonna have to wait. Sorry. And since I said you're gonna have to wait, sorry. It's time for listener mail.

• 53:39Speaker 03

  All right, so listener mail. This one is, let me see here. Oh, this is a hand-type letter. Look at this thing.

• 53:46Josh Clark?

  Nice.

• 53:47Speaker 03

  Not an email.

• 53:48Josh Clark?

  No.

• 53:48Speaker 03

  It's a printed email.

• 53:50Josh Clark?

  It's also not written in the cutout magazine letters either.

• 53:53Speaker 03

  No, thank goodness. So, uh, this is from, uh, Westwood Sutherland, and he's the guy who sent us that beef jerky.

• 54:01Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah. Thanks, Westwood.

• 54:03Speaker 03

  Uh, hey, guys. My name is Westwood Sutherland, currently a college sophomore in environmental engineering at University of Colorado Boulder. "Sco buffs," he says.

• 54:12Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 54:13Speaker 03

  Uh, "I'd like to say I'm your biggest fan, but I can't compete with my dad, who introduced me to your podcast. He's been listening for years and even acts on some of your information. After hearing your podcast, uh, about bees, uh, the first one, not, not the beekeeping, uh, he became a beekeeper.

• 54:30Josh Clark?

  Wow.

• 54:31Speaker 03

  And has reaped the rewards for years now and increased production from our fruit trees, as well as getting some honey.

• 54:37Josh Clark?

  That's awesome.

• 54:37Speaker 03

  Uh, though he has to deal with the bear. Uh, he, he's sending that picture of the bear.

• 54:42Josh Clark?

  Is that the, that's the local cop that hassles him all the time?

• 54:45Speaker 03

  No, it's a bear go after his honey, and he named the bear Jerry. How great is that?

• 54:50Josh Clark?

  That's great. Give me some miso.

• 54:51Speaker 03

  He also invested money into a stock, I'm sorry, into any stock that worked with CRISPR.

• 54:58Josh Clark?

  Oh, smart guy.

• 54:59Speaker 03

  Uh, "And after hearing your gene editing podcast," and he is very happy with the results. Wink, wink.

• 55:04Josh Clark?

  That's nice.

• 55:05Speaker 03

  I didn't. I should've.

• 55:07Josh Clark?

  Yeah. We didn't even take our own advice.

• 55:08Speaker 03

  What's my problem? Uh, anyway, the reason I got into your podcast is started a beef jerky company when I was 14. I love that stuff. And I was selling enough that I spent, uh, lots of hours cutting, marinating, laying meat, and bagging jerky. Uh, during those long hours, my dad would help. He'd listen to Stuff You Should Know, one after the other, and made time go by very quickly. Just wanted to say thank you for your wisdom, comedy, insight, and making my days of jerky production a bit easier. I've included some samples of my jerky as a thank you.

• 55:37Josh Clark?

  That is so cool.

• 55:37Speaker 03

  Uh, and that is Westwood Sutherland, and you can find his beef jerky at westsidjerky.com.

• 55:44Josh Clark?

  I believe Westwood comes from a pretty amazing family.

• 55:47Speaker 03

  And you know what? Let me correct that, too. He does come in from an amazing family. It is wests-side, as in westwood. So W-E-S-T-S.

• 55:58Speaker 03

  S I D E, jerky.com.

• 56:00Josh Clark?

  The extra S stands for super.

• 56:03Speaker 03

  Small batch, flank steak, beef jerky, gluten free, and 100% not vegan.

• 56:09Josh Clark?

  That's right.

• 56:10Speaker 03

  That's what he says on his card.

• 56:11Josh Clark?

  Thanks, Westwood. That was pretty cool. And hats off to your dad, too, for being so cool as well.

• 56:16Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 56:17Josh Clark?

  We need to do administrative details soon because I came across the list. We've got stuff that was given to us a year ago at like shows in October.

• 56:25Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 56:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so we need to do it soon, okay?

• 56:28Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 56:28Josh Clark?

  Okay, well, if you wanted to get in touch with us like Westwood did, you can go onto our social links, start at stuffyoushouldknow.com. And you can also send us an email, or you can send us a typewritten letter, but try an email, too. You can send it off to [email protected].

• 56:47Speaker 00

  Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 57:02Josh Clark?

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• 58:08Josh Clark?

  Introducing Voices of Vivgard. Vivgard is also known as its generic name, Fgard Tigamod Alpha F Cab, and this new show features firsthand stories from people living with a rare disease. Hosted by Andrew Stratton, these perspectives highlight that life is more than a moment, a condition, or a tough day. Living with a rare disease can be challenging, but it does not define the Voices of Vivgard. In these episodes, they share their stories, from diagnosis to working with their care team on their treatment plan. Listen to Voices of Vivgard on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 58:41Speaker 00

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