Some Interesting Curses

Even though curses aren’t real – and we go to great pains to make that clear – they are pretty interesting, especially ones you haven’t heard of before. So we dug deep and found some of the curses that don’t always hog the spotlight for this fun episode. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Josh Clark?

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• 1:47Speaker 00

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio.

• 1:56Josh Clark?

  Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and Chuck's here and Jerry's here. So that makes this stuff you should know. And I guess we're just gonna call this one of our silly additions.

• 2:09Speaker 02

  Well, I don't know if it's silly. I think it's kind of fun. People like hearing about curses, even though, you know, it's not a real thing, right?

• 2:17Josh Clark?

  Yeah, yeah. But I would call silliness fun inherently.

• 2:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:21Josh Clark?

  Okay, well, then we're in agreement.

• 2:23Speaker 02

  I just wanted to clear up whether or not we were a cursed podcast because

• 2:27Josh Clark?

  We are.

• 2:28Speaker 02

  We've had pretty good success. Is that our curse?

• 2:31Josh Clark?

  Well, no, don't you remember? We have a curse on other people's TV shows and our own, actually.

• 2:36Speaker 02

  Oh, that's right. When we would mention something, a TV show would get canceled, right?

• 2:41Josh Clark?

  No, when we would go on a TV show, it would get canceled shortly after.

• 2:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:45Josh Clark?

  It happened to, I don't remember the name of her program, but one of Solid Ed O'Brien's shows.

• 2:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:51Josh Clark?

  The Whatever Show with Alexis and Jennifer.

• 2:54Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 2:55Josh Clark?

  Jeff Probst's daytime talk show.

• 2:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, Probstin it up, I think it was called.

• 3:01Josh Clark?

  And I'm sure there's more, but like all three of those, we went on and like, seriously, within weeks, they were canceled or off the air or something.

• 3:09Speaker 02

  Oh, man. Now I'm suddenly glad we never went on Conan O'Brien.

• 3:12Josh Clark?

  Yeah, really. So yes, we have our own curse, which is hilarious and wonderful because I think that's just one more, one more feather to put in our cap, you know?

• 3:21Speaker 02

  That's right. And as you pointed out, we, when we went on our own TV show, that was also canceled.

• 3:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that was bound to happen.

• 3:29Speaker 02

  Actually, not canceled. I always say canceled. It was not renewed. There's a difference.

• 3:33Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, there's a big difference. Cancelled is like, just stop, stop, just stop.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:38Josh Clark?

  And not renewed is like, you know.

• 3:40Speaker 02

  We, we, we covered one show last week that had a radar show for MASH had a pilot and that got canceled.

• 3:46Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it, it like midair, basically.

• 3:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, before it hit the West Coast. So that made me feel a lot better.

• 3:52Josh Clark?

  So let's just say, let's just give a little heads up to everybody, especially the people who are like, "All I want is science from stuff you should know." This is, like I said, it's a little silly. You said it's gonna be fun. A lot of this stuff is just legend. So we kind of tried to fact check as much as we could, but fact checking is a little bit beyond the point because when you start to look into them, everything just falls apart. So that's why, you know, we're basically doing an anthropological view of some famous curses or interesting curses that aren't necessarily famous.

• 4:24Speaker 02

  That's right. And we're gonna start with the curse on Brunswick Springs, and that is a place in Brunswick, Vermont

• 4:30Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 4:31Speaker 02

  that has, uh, has a spring, has actually six of them. And each one of these, they're, they're pretty great springs. They have some different minerals flowing out of each one. Magnesium, sulfur, bromide, calcium, iron, and arsenic. And because, you know, springs are a great place to heal oneself, depending on what's going on with you and what the spring can offer. And so obviously, a lot of people over the years have tried to, you know, capitalize and charge money on these springs, but not anymore.

• 5:01Josh Clark?

  No, they actually kind of stopped trying. And the reason why is because there's a curse on the springs. We'll see what the deal is with that, starting now.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  Sound like you're gonna say it right after this break or something.

• 5:15Josh Clark?

  So let's talk about the Abenaki, Chuck.

• 5:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, they are an Algonquin-speaking tribe, and they have lived in that area. And, you know, Brunswick, Vermont is a lovely area, so I don't blame them. But they've been living there for about 12,000 years. And they obviously were the first ones to say like, "Hey, this spring is pretty great." Uh, because they are a indigenous tribe, they considered it a sacred place. And they thought that the springs had mystical healing powers. And, you know, at the very least, they probably have some sort of health benefits.

• 5:45Josh Clark?

  Yeah, sure. But this is like sacred ground of the Abenaki. It still is, as a matter of fact. And so as part of their oral tradition, and as far as legend goes too, uh, during the French and Indian War, the Abenaki brought a wounded French soldier. And remember, French and Indian War doesn't mean the French were fighting, uh, the Native Americans. They were fighting together against the British.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 6:09Josh Clark?

  So the the French soldier was fighting alongside the Abenaki. He got wounded and depending on who you ask either he was wounded in his arm and was probably going to lose it. He was mortally wounded. The point of the story is that he was wounded. They took him to Brunswick Springs and he was miraculously cured by the spring water. It was a really bro gesture of the Abenaki to do that for him.

• 6:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. So obviously that soldier was like, hey, this worked wonders for me. I think I can probably make a little money on this thing. So he returned later after he was healed. He took over the spring, basically, and started bottling and selling the water. And the Abenaki confronted him or like, this is no good. There was a bit of a tiff that broke out and bloodshed as a result. There was the death of a man and his infant child, which is super sad. And the the wife and mother of those two basically said, all right, you know what that means? It's cursed time. Anyone from here till the end of time that comes along, and I'm summarizing, of course, that comes along and tries to exploit these sacred springs for profit

• 7:18Speaker 02

  shall be cursed and it will not be a success.

• 7:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah, which is kind of a mild curse for having just lost your husband and baby.

• 7:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would say like, and also you suffer illness and disease and die.

• 7:31Josh Clark?

  Right, exactly. So very shortly after that, the British won essentially the French Indian War. And the Abenaki were removed from the area around the Brunswick Springs. And they were essentially moved out of the way by British colonists who settled around there. And so they essentially lost control over their sacred ground. And 100 years after that, somebody finally was like, we're going to build a resort here. Like, these are, this is a great spa, right? So they build a spa resort and there's a website called The Vermontor. And they did a great story on this, but they turned up a hotel brochure from the 1860s.

• 8:15Josh Clark?

  And it said that this spa offered medicine. Waters from the Great Spirit. So just to add insult to injury, not only have they been like, this is our spring. Now, thanks. You go move somewhere else. They were like, by the way, even the Native Americans think this is pretty amazing. So come pay to stay here. So the hotel actually did fairly well for the first few decades. And then the curse finally woke up and was like, where am I? Oh, yeah, I better get to business.

• 8:45Speaker 02

  That's right. I'm surprised when they included that medicine waters from the Great Spirit. Like, they were really asking for it at that point. But yeah, that didn't awaken the curse. But you were right. What would awaken the curse would be when a dentist took it over and expanded the resort. And this was in 1894, and it burned to the ground.

• 9:04Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  About 20 years after that, a guy named John Hutchins bought the place, rebuilt it. And this was in 1929. That also burned down. So he's like, all right, I guess I'm going to rebuild it again. And I'm going to add a couple of more hotels to make it worth my while. They all burned down in 1930 and 1931. So he was like, all right, I guess this place really is cursed. I'm out of here.

• 9:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And since then, no one's tried to rebuild there again. And the ruins of the hotel are still around. It's pretty cool. There's some good photos of it on that Vermont or website. There's like a couple foundations, the old train platforms there, there's some staircases that go into an old cellar. But there's never going to be anyone who tries their hand at it again, who says, forget this curse, I'm going to try and build my own spa and see if that burns down. Why, Chuck?

• 9:59Speaker 02

  Well, because the Abenaki tribe actually purchased the land around the springs and sold it to Vermont. They said, all right, we're going to sell this to you. This is just a few years ago. And now it's held in a trust, and it's not ever going to be developed.

• 10:13Josh Clark?

  Pretty neat, huh?

• 10:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's great.

• 10:15Josh Clark?

  That's a great end to that story.

• 10:16Speaker 02

  Agreed.

• 10:17Josh Clark?

  And the curse was able to fall back asleep.

• 10:21Speaker 02

  Go back to sleep now, curse. And you're going to wake up in Hollywood, California.

• 10:25Josh Clark?

  Well, hold on, let's have Jerry put some interstitial Christmas music in between these.

• 10:34Speaker 02

  All right. So hooray for Hollywood. This is one I had heard of before, The Curse of Attuk. It's a pretty well-regarded curse as far as, you know, in Hollywood circles. There was a script based on a book. It was a 1963 satirical Canadian novel called The Incomparable Attuk by Mordecai Rickler. And it's about an Inuit hunter and poet from Canada who is discovered by a documentary crew and brought back to the big city of Toronto. And it's sort of like a King Kong thing. It's like an exotic curiosity. And of course, as you would expect, once Attuk is in the city,

• 11:15Speaker 02

  it's like a fish out of water story. But then he realizes like how awesome Toronto is and how great it is to be a big city guy and to be famous and kind of rich.

• 11:23Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  And so he wants to fit in there and live that life and eventually runs for office.

• 11:29Josh Clark?

  You're right. It's a great satirical novel. It's essentially the antithesis of Crocodile Dundee. Because remember, he moved to the big city. But he changed the big city. The big city didn't change him.

• 11:40Speaker 02

  That's right. And there was actually a line in Attuk where he had a knife pulled on him and he said, "That is a knife." That was really worth the effort.

• 11:47Josh Clark?

  It really was. You got there eventually.

• 11:50Speaker 02

  It took me four takes, everybody. Good lord.

• 11:53Josh Clark?

  I've never heard so many beeps in one spot.

• 11:55Speaker 02

  Oh, gosh. Okay.

• 11:56Josh Clark?

  Jerry, I can just see Jerry editing this with her face at her hands.

• 12:00Speaker 02

  This needs to go in her blooper reel that Jerry doesn't do anymore.

• 12:03Josh Clark?

  I know. So what, the book came out in 1968 and it was optioned within three years?

• 12:10Speaker 02

  Sixty-three, but yeah.

• 12:11Josh Clark?

  Sixty-three? I thought sixty-eight. Oh, okay. So yeah, I guess it took a little while for the Americans to catch on.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:19Josh Clark?

  The script was purchased. It took a few years to turn it into a script, to adapt it. And when they did adapt it, they Americanized it so that Attuk didn't come from the great northern reaches of Canada. Attuk came from Alaska and he wasn't taken to Toronto. He was taken to New York, right?

• 12:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:40Josh Clark?

  So that did not trigger this movie getting made. I guess, I mean, you would know way better than me, but I mean, like, what percentage of scripts actually get made? Like, are there way more scripts out there that have just been passing, passed around for years and years? Or is this actually kind of rare?

• 12:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, I wonder what the percentage is. I mean, if you're talking about scripts that actually get like bought by a studio, I bet, I bet 10% of those get made into movies. Maybe not even.

• 13:11Josh Clark?

  Wow. Well, this was one of them. It was, it was passed around Hollywood for years and years and years. It just never got made. But over the years, there were plenty of people who were like, this is a great script. I want to do this movie. And the first to step up came in 1982, the beginning of 1982, an actor named John Belushi, I think.

• 13:33Speaker 02

  I think it's Belushi.

• 13:34Josh Clark?

  Belushi, sorry. He got his hands on it. And he's like, I love this script. I'm gonna actually star as a took. And the, I guess the ball didn't even begin to get rolling. It was sitting there, held in place by inertia still, before Belushi died.

• 13:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, he died very sadly at age 33, in the Chateau Marmont Hotel from doing drugs, from a speedball.

• 14:01Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 14:01Speaker 02

  Very famously. I get the picture of Duke as probably a big fella.

• 14:05Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 14:06Speaker 02

  Because everybody that has followed in Belushi's footsteps has been, you know, of larger proportions. So after Belushi passed, it went back into turnaround, spent a few more years getting kicked around. And then Sam Kinison, the great comedian, signed on in 1988, and they actually started filming, right?

• 14:25Josh Clark?

  I think they got eight days into it.

• 14:27Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 14:28Josh Clark?

  Did you know, real quick, Sam Kinison was a fire and brimstone itinerant preacher?

• 14:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:35Josh Clark?

  I did not know that he started out like that. It makes sense. I can totally see it, but wow. So yeah, they filmed this, filmed eight days worth of this movie, and I guess. Sam Kinison hadn't really read the script because after that point, he was like, hey, I really want some more say in like what the script rewrites are gonna do. And the studio was like, ah, we're not really happy about that. And Kinison was like, oh yeah, well, I'm gonna deliver a terrible performance. And the studio said, oh yeah, well, we're gonna sue you. And they did. They filed a lawsuit against them.

• 15:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, it got pretty ugly. So, production was obviously halted, and it was still sort of in, uh, being contested, when Sam Kinison, very sadly, died in a car wreck in 1992 at age 38.

• 15:21Josh Clark?

  Okay, all right. That's a little weird so far. Two actors who tried to play a took have died young, but surely that doesn't mean anything, right?

• 15:31Speaker 02

  No, curses aren't real.

• 15:32Josh Clark?

  No. Although it is real, because if you continue on just a few more years, a took, the script, claimed more lives.

• 15:41Speaker 02

  That's right. Uh, in 1996, uh, screenwriter Michael O'Donohue, who I believe was an SNL guy.

• 15:48Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 15:48Speaker 02

  Uh, the original scriptwriter, I looked him up, I can't remember his name now, uh, maybe it was Todd Carey or something. He was a, uh, a National Lampoon guy.

• 15:57Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 15:58Speaker 02

  And maybe Michael O'Donohue was too. So it was kind of in that world. Um, long way of saying, he took over, did some rewrites, and recruited none other than the great, great John Candy. Uh, and very sadly, we all know what happened to John Candy. He passed away at the age of 43 of a heart attack. And O'Donohue also died of a cerebral hemorrhage at 58. So that was a double curse. And this is the point where I can remind everybody to go out and watch the John Candy documentary, because it is, it is wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.

• 16:28Josh Clark?

  Okay, good. Thank you for that. One other thing about that, John Candy and Michael O'Donohue died the same year, in 1996, which was also the same year that they decided to make this movie.

• 16:43Speaker 02

  Was that not clear?

• 16:44Josh Clark?

  No.

• 16:45Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 16:46Josh Clark?

  So that was, I mean, that to me, that's like, that's very surprising.

• 16:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:51Josh Clark?

  I'm also, you guys, I'm not this really this credulous, but it is very interesting to me. Okay.

• 16:57Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 16:58Josh Clark?

  What happened the next year, Chuck? Surely the horrible reign of terror of A Took came to an end after John Candy and Michael O'Donoghue.

• 17:07Speaker 02

  No, no, I think you know who's coming. Very sadly, if there's one more person kind of waiting in the wings for this kind of role. It's Chris Farley, of course, in 1997. He decided to take on this role and got his buddy Phil Hartman on board. And we should doubly point this out. They died before they could get that movie made the very same year.

• 17:27Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that same year.

• 17:29Speaker 02

  Same year.

• 17:31Josh Clark?

  Yeah, Chris Farley died.

• 17:33Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 17:34Josh Clark?

  The next year, Phil Hartman died. We did a whole episode on him.

• 17:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was a good one.

• 17:38Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so I mean, there's a bunch of deaths of people tagged on to A Took. And A Took still hasn't been made. It's a very weird curse. As far as Hollywood curses go, and there's plenty of those, it's a strange curse, if you ask me. But the people at Tales From Development Hell website, they did a pretty good article on this. And they pointed out that if A Took is a killer script, there's other killer scripts out there that all those same people were attached to, at least Belushi, Kinison, Candy and Farley were.

• 18:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, the very famously, the great, great book, A Confederacy of Dunces, has never been made. And there's been just tons and tons of people attached. I think Philip Seymour Hoffman was attached to that as well. And he passed away. I think Will Ferrell was attached. There's been a lot of people attached because it's just such a great, great book. Did you ever read that?

• 18:29Josh Clark?

  No, I, is it just about like southern foibles? Or is it like better, bigger?

• 18:36Speaker 02

  It's better.

• 18:37Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 18:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's good. What's a foible?

• 18:42Josh Clark?

  It's just a unique kind of sometimes negative characteristic or trait or habit or something like that. Just something that makes somebody themselves and not like other people that you kind of have to put up with if you're going to love that person. How about that?

• 18:57Speaker 02

  Oh, so I have many foibles.

• 18:59Josh Clark?

  Oh, I have a lot of foibles too. Yeah.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  Uh, what's the other one? The Fatty Arbuckle biopic? All those guys were attached to that at one point as well.

• 19:08Josh Clark?

  That's weird that all of those guys and Philip Seymour Hoffman were attached to Confederacy of Dunce's too. That's interesting.

• 19:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:16Josh Clark?

  I'm glad you mentioned Will Ferrell, though, because I want to take a second and give a PSA in defense of Will Ferrell and John C. Riley and their movie Holmes and Watson.

• 19:27Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. You texted me. You liked it, right?

• 19:29Josh Clark?

  Yes. When we did our episode on, I guess, Sherlock Holmes.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:34Josh Clark?

  We got a lot of hate from people who were like, that movie sucked. It's terrible. And it's got like a really bad rating generally on.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  It's supposed to be just one of the worst movies, so I'm glad you liked it.

• 19:45Josh Clark?

  That is wrong. I mean, if you're going in looking for any kind of highbrow cinema, yes, you're going to be deeply disappointed. But if you're familiar with the cinema of John C. Riley and Will Ferrell together, you're going to actually be pleasantly surprised, especially if you think you're going in there like, this movie kind of sucks. It's cute. It's a good movie. As far as those movies are concerned.

• 20:06Speaker 02

  I want to check it out now. Uh, well, uh, yeah. Was there a Catalina wine mixer in that one?

• 20:12Josh Clark?

  No, there was not. No, nothing like that. It was a very, um, it was true to the period.

• 20:18Speaker 02

  Well, I kind of want to see it now, so.

• 20:20Josh Clark?

  You should see it. I texted you and told you to see it. And this is what it takes for you to finally listen to me?

• 20:26Speaker 02

  All right. I'm going to go plunder my foibles and we'll be back after this.

• 20:31Josh Clark?

  And you came along and it was like, boom.

• 20:40Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, well, we were work pals.

• 20:44Speaker 02

  You know, you're never done decorating your home. You know what I mean?

• 20:47Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 20:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, because it's a process. There's always something you could do or buy or update. The only question is, what's next? For us, our animals just wear out our rugs so quickly. It's usually a new rug.

• 20:58Josh Clark?

  Well, Chuck, whether you need a rug or whatever is next for you, you can go to Wayfair. It's the smart place to get it.

• 21:05Speaker 02

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• 21:16Josh Clark?

  And with over 20 million five-star reviews, Wayfair must be doing something right. You can find pieces made for real life and get even more value with Wayfair Rewards. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com.

• 21:37Speaker 03

  Wayfair, every style, every home.

• 21:42Speaker 02

  Hey, everybody. Cozy season is upon us, and that means crisp mornings, that means soft layers, and that means Bombas.

• 21:49Josh Clark?

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• 22:03Speaker 02

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• 22:08Josh Clark?

  And of course, Bombas has socks. Not just any socks, socks for every type of weather, every type of occasion, because fall can be fickle, and Bombas makes socks that can handle it all. And the best part about Bombas, for every item you purchase, they donate an essential clothing item to someone facing housing insecurity. One purchased equals one donated, with over 200 million donations and counting.

• 22:30Speaker 02

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• 22:49Josh Clark?

  If you own a home, you already know stuff breaks. It's not if, it's when, and somehow it's always like the AC in July, or the fridge right after you go to the grocery store. That's why you always hear people say they don't make appliances like they used to, because it's kind of true.

• 23:05Speaker 02

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• 23:18Josh Clark?

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• 23:31Speaker 02

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• 24:09Josh Clark?

  Okay, Chuck, we're gonna head on over to present-day Uzbekistan. And there, you'll find that I had already parked the Wayback Machine. So let's get in.

• 24:25Speaker 02

  That's right. And we are talking about the curse of Tamerlane. Originally, Timur the lame. And we very much need to point out here that calling someone lame is not a word that we use anymore.

• 24:39Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  Very much an antiquated term, but that was what they called Timur. And it was then anglicized to Tamerlane, T-A-M-E-R-L-A-N-E. Tamerlane.

• 24:50Speaker 02

  Not lame.

• 24:50Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 24:51Speaker 02

  So maybe they were already getting the picture. Like, this is not a nice thing to say.

• 24:54Josh Clark?

  Right. He was a 14th-century Mongol warlord. I don't know if he was a descendant, probably, but he was certainly a successor to Genghis Khan or Chinggis Khan. And very much like Chinggis Khan, he was responsible for the deaths of lots and lots of people.

• 25:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:12Josh Clark?

  The number that I see bandied about most frequently is 17 million people.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  Oh, jeez.

• 25:17Josh Clark?

  Which even more impressive is that that is about 5% of the entire global population at the time. That's how many people died as a result of Tamerlane's conquests.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I think by impressive, you mean depressing.

• 25:31Josh Clark?

  Sure. Yes, exactly. I mean, if you are impressed by large numbers, regardless what they represent, that's all I mean.

• 25:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:41Speaker 02

  So what are you into? Large numbers.

• 25:43Josh Clark?

  Yeah, listen to this one. Seventeen million.

• 25:46Speaker 02

  Whoa, very impressed.

• 25:49Josh Clark?

  What are you talking about? Deaths.

• 25:51Speaker 02

  This date is over. So he was known as the scourge of God and he was a member of the Barlas tribe or the Barlas tribe. And well, you already spoiled that one and what is now Uzbekistan. And they, he was, you know, he did what they do. He, they sacked cities all over the place. Moscow, Persia, Delhi, Damascus, you name it. And he's, you know, known as one of the, you know, I hate saying great, but one of the great conquerors.

• 26:18Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I mean, as far as conquerors and all the terrible things that's attendant with being a conqueror or being conquered by a conqueror. He is often placed on equal footing with Darius the first, Alexander the great, Chinggis Khan again.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  And Darius Rucker.

• 26:35Josh Clark?

  Exactly. Wait, wait, as the Houthi frontman or as a country star?

• 26:40Speaker 02

  I think he's conquered all.

• 26:42Josh Clark?

  Okay, well then, yeah, Darius Rucker makes sense. One of the things though is about some of these conquerors, including Tamerlane. He was also credited with spreading a lot of culture too. And there's actually a type of architecture, architectural style called Timurud. And that you can find in the capital city of Samarkand in Uzbekistan. It's incredibly ornate and colorful and beautiful. And it's credited to his reign.

• 27:10Speaker 02

  That's great.

• 27:12Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's about the best thing you could say.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  You were trying to find something positive.

• 27:16Josh Clark?

  Sure. If you go look up pictures of that kind of architectural style, you'd be like, wow. That guy was impressive.

• 27:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's very nice. I know you guys are all going like, okay, geez, guys, is he cursed or not?

• 27:28Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 27:29Speaker 02

  So it turns out there was a curse. He died in 1405 during his last campaign. He fell ill and he was put in an ebony coffin and entombed in a mausoleum at a mosque in Samarkand. And he was there just, you know, entombed as a dead person for about 500 years until Stalin came along in 1941 and said, you know what? I want to see if this guy truly had, apparently the lame, and again, I hate even using that words, but his issue was that he had issues with both his right limbs, his right arm and his right leg. And Stalin, sounds like he wanted to get down to the nitty gritty and see if that was really true.

• 28:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I also get the impression that Stalin was also flexing his power like over his vassal states, you know, by saying like, you're this conquering hero that's like the most revered person in your culture. I can dig him up, basically, if I want to.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 28:27Josh Clark?

  One of the other points of the expedition was that the leader of the expedition, Mikhail Jarazimov, yeah, he was a renowned forensic reconstructionist. So he was going to take Tamerlane's skull and basically do a lifelike likeness of him from it, right? So here's the problem with all that. There's a, there was an inscription, they say, on Timmer's tomb that read, "Whosoever disturbs my grave shall unleash a conqueror greater than I." So they enter Timmer's tomb, they disentomb him, I guess is what you would call that.

• 29:06Speaker 02

  Exhum him?

• 29:07Josh Clark?

  Yeah, but I think exhum means take out of the ground. This is taking out of the tomb, right?

• 29:13Speaker 02

  Good point, yeah.

• 29:13Josh Clark?

  So they take him out of his tomb. Let's just stop being hoity-toity. And two days later, two days later, Hitler rolls across the Russian border, the Western Russian border, in the biggest land invasion ever, before or since. It's called Operation Barbarossa.

• 29:35Speaker 02

  And how many days later was this?

• 29:37Josh Clark?

  Two.

• 29:38Speaker 02

  Just two?

• 29:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah, two. Two days after they disentombed Timmer.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  The setting of two suns?

• 29:45Josh Clark?

  That's all. I actually saw it put like that.

• 29:50Speaker 02

  So, uh, yeah, it was a massive invasion, nearly 4 million German and Axis troops flooded there to help out. Uh, like you said, it's the largest invasion in history and as many as 16 million, not quite 17, but still a big number. And so I hope we're all impressed.

• 30:06Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 30:07Speaker 02

  Uh, Russian civilians, just civilians alone were killed and millions more, obviously, soldiers were killed. And it just, the bloodshed kept going on while Germany was there in Russia. And, um, it was, it was a bad scene.

• 30:21Josh Clark?

  It was a terrible scene, right? So like the, the tide eventually did turn and one of the battles that the whole thing turned on was the Battle of Stalingrad, which is considered still to this day, the bloodiest urban battle in history. Uh, the USSR lost 1.1 million soldiers in fighting in just this one city, right?

• 30:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:43Josh Clark?

  The Battle of Stalingrad ended about the same time that Stalin ordered Timmer's remains to be re-intuned.

• 30:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, as the legend goes, uh, Stalin got a little spooked and was like, all right, well, maybe this thing, uh, you know, this curse happened because of what I did. And so, uh, they put him back in there and that was it. They were, they were repelled, the, uh, Germans were repelled from the USSR. Uh, but here's the deal. The curse was kind of, not only, obviously our curse is not real, but this one doesn't even seem to be real at all, right?

• 31:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Like Stalin couldn't have even gotten cagey about the curse because it seems to have been invented not until 2003.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. And how did that happen?

• 31:31Josh Clark?

  Well, uh, our friend Craig Collins on the site Hidden Compass, he's the one who said two, two sunsets before the Nazis invaded, for real. Um, he had, he had a really good article about it. Um, he found a Russian documentary from 2003 and they mention, I get the sense it's a very History Channel-esque documentary from Russia. They mention a book that they don't name, they don't show, but they say in the book, there was inscribed this curse saying like, if you dig me up or disentomb me, I'm going to unleash a conquer on you. That seems to have kind of translated into this idea

• 32:13Josh Clark?

  that that curse was inscribed on his tomb.

• 32:17Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 32:19Josh Clark?

  We know, we know for a fact, it was not inscribed on his tomb because that same Soviet team that disentombed Timmer.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:27Josh Clark?

  They copied down all of the inscriptions. One of them went back and translated them all and published it as a book. There wasn't a single curse in there.

• 32:35Speaker 02

  No curse.

• 32:36Josh Clark?

  But the rest of the stuff is fairly accurate. The timing actually is still pretty accurate. It's just the fact that there wasn't an actual stated curse is the thing.

• 32:45Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 32:46Josh Clark?

  Wow, indeed, I think. But so let's stop talking about tens of millions of people dying, Chuck, and let's start talking more about baseball.

• 32:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, America's pastime. We're not going to talk about the curse of the bambino and the Red Sox. We're going to talk about the other great curse, the curse of the goat, which involves the beloved Chicago Cubs, a team that I have grown to love.

• 33:07Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 33:08Speaker 02

  Merely by growing up, watching them on WGN after school and by going to Wrigley Field now a few times.

• 33:14Josh Clark?

  Yeah. I tell everybody Wrigley Field's the easiest ballpark to just walk right into. It's wonderful.

• 33:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's the best. You don't even need a ticket.

• 33:22Josh Clark?

  So let's get back in the way back. Let's get back in the way back machine, Chuck, and talk about somebody who actually did have a ticket and still had a problem getting in. We're going to go back to October 6, 1945, a particularly chilly day. And when we show up at Wrigley Field, we're going to find that the Cubs are scheduled to play the Tigers in game four of what's known as the World Series of Baseball.

• 33:54Speaker 02

  That's right. And the guy trying to get in was a bar owner. He owned a tavern called the Lincoln Tavern on Madison. His name was William Sianis. He's a Greek immigrant and got a couple of box seats for $7.20 apiece, walked up to Wrigley Field with his pet goat, Murphy. Murphy had a little blanket on because it was unseasonably chilly for early October. And there was a sign on Murphy that said, "We got Detroit's goat." And he's like, "This will be great. I'm gonna go in here with my goat. I love this goat and we're gonna watch the ballgame." And the kid at the gate said, "Sir, I don't think you can have a goat in here." That's my best Simpsons guy.

• 34:36Josh Clark?

  That was pretty, pretty close, dude.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  Pretty good. And so they rejected him and he was not allowed to come in.

• 34:44Josh Clark?

  No. And so Sianis, I mean, he was fairly well-known. I don't know if connected's the right word, but he owned what was known as the Lincoln Tavern, I think you said. He had since renamed it before this, the Billy Goat Tavern, because Murphy, as a kid, had fallen off some truck back in 1934 and wandered into the Lincoln Tavern. And Sianis was like, "You're now the mascot." Apparently, he even formally adopted Murphy through court. And Murphy had a great home. So these guys have been friends for over 10 years by the time this incident happened. So Sianis is like, "You know what? I got just enough clout

• 35:25Josh Clark?

  to get in touch with Philip K. Wrigley. I want him to say I can't come in before I'll accept it."

• 35:31Speaker 02

  That's right. So he pleaded his case. He said, "I went to goat court for this guy and it's all legal and everyone loves Murphy. You should see people at the tavern." And Wrigley apparently supposedly said, "No." And then he said, "Let Billy in, but not the goat." Yuck, yuck, yuck. And when he was like, "Well, why not the goat? I went to goat court and everything," Wrigley said, "Because the goat stinks," which he didn't need to say that. Like, goats have an odor and everybody knows that. You don't have to point it out.

• 36:04Josh Clark?

  So Cianus was like, I'm not going to take this sitting down. He stood up. Uh, he said, my pride has been wounded, but you have insulted my goat friend of more than a decade. So he cursed the Cubs right then and there. He apparently exclaimed, the Cubs ain't gonna win no more. The Cubs will never win a World Series so long as the goat is not allowed in Wrigley Field. And he stormed off with Murphy in tow. Uh, there's another version that says that they were allowed in, but they ended up getting kicked out because other fans complained that Murphy was trying to eat their food. And then the curse happened. Either way, they got cursed because Murphy was not allowed to sit and watch the game.

• 36:46Speaker 02

  All right. I think that's a great cliffhanger because we gotta see what happened to the Cubs. And we'll find that out right after this.

• 36:54Speaker 02

  And you came along and it was like, boom.

• 37:03Josh Clark?

  Uh, yeah, well, we were work pals.

• 37:08Josh Clark?

  If you own a home, you already know stuff breaks. It's not if, it's when. And somehow it's always like the AC in July or the fridge right after you go to the grocery store. That's why you always hear people say they don't make appliances like they used to because it's kind of true.

• 37:23Speaker 02

  That's right. Good thing there's American Home Shield with an AHS home warranty. They can help fix major home systems and appliance breakdowns like your AC, plumbing or fridge. And if they can't repair your cupboard item, they'll replace it no matter how old it is.

• 37:36Josh Clark?

  And that's huge because fixing an AC can cost a lot. Like, hey, kids, our vacation is canceled a lot. Plus, as a benefit to select plans, you can get real time video help from live repair experts to troubleshoot home hassles at no extra cost.

• 37:50Speaker 02

  Listen, everybody, homeownership is already stressful enough. No need to upset your wallet. So check out American Home Shield now and get 20% off any plan at ahs.com/sysk and see promo details. See ahs.com/contracts for coverage details, including service fees, limitations and exclusions. American Home Shield, don't worry, be warranty.

• 38:17Josh Clark?

  World Mental Health Day takes place in October, and it's really meant to be more than just awareness. It's about actually taking the next step and getting support if you need it.

• 38:26Speaker 02

  But a lot of people still talk themselves out of therapy. They think it's too expensive. They're not sure if it'll actually work. They don't know how to find the right therapist, or they just get overwhelmed trying to navigate the whole system.

• 38:36Josh Clark?

  And that's exactly what Rula is built to fix. Rula makes therapy feel a lot more approachable, a lot more human. You can find a therapist who actually fits your needs, not just whoever's available. And with insurance, sessions average around $15 copay.

• 38:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can sign up in just a few minutes. You can get matched with the right provider and even book something as soon as the next day.

• 38:56Josh Clark?

  And it's not just about starting. Rula helps you stay consistent and actually make progress because taking care of your mental health isn't a one-time thing. So if you've been thinking about therapy, don't talk yourself out of it. This is a really easy way to take that first step.

• 39:08Speaker 02

  So turn off the talk track that's keeping you from progress and head to rula.com, that is R-U-L-A dot com, to find a therapist the easy way.

• 39:23Josh Clark?

  We've all done it, tumble down an internet rabbit hole trying to self-diagnose. And sometimes doing our own research can leave us more anxious than informed. Your feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong?

• 39:41Speaker 02

  That's exactly what Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy-nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel, and YouTube, talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends.

• 39:59Josh Clark?

  Not to cancel them, not to hype them more, but to actually understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Start asking better questions and listen to Health vs. Hype on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 40:29Speaker 02

  Cubs lose.

• 40:33Josh Clark?

  That was great.

• 40:34Speaker 02

  That's exactly what happened. They lost that game. They lost the World Series to the Tigers. And Sianas apparently sent a telegram that said, who stinks now?

• 40:44Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  And the curse of the Billy Goat was born. And for the rest of the 20th century and well into the 21st century, the Cubs were, you know, a 500-ish team. They didn't do so great. They had about 15 winning seasons over that span from 46 to 2003, finished first place three times, no pennants, no World Series appearances, and just four postseason appearances.

• 41:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And so just for people like me who don't follow baseball, or at least don't follow baseball stats that have a decimal involved, they had 15 winning seasons over 57 years. And that just means that in those seasons, they won more games than they lost, right?

• 41:33Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 41:33Josh Clark?

  That is terrible, especially Chuck, when you consider up to that curse, the Cubs were one of the best teams in baseball and had been their entire existence. They'd won the World Series the year before the curse too. So this was like a real reversal of fortune for the Cubs. And it seems to have hinged on the curse of the Billy Goat, Murphy.

• 41:58Speaker 02

  That's right. So, you know, because baseball is fun and people like doing, kind of goofing around with kind of lore like this, they tried over the years to lift this curse. They're like, we'll do some fun stuff. So in 1973, the new owner of the Billy Goat Tavern, Sam Sianas, who was the nephew to William, brought the goat to Wrigley, says he's got to lift this curse. The goat showed up, I think this was a descendant of Murphy, Socrates, showed up in a white limousine with a red carpet entrance with a sign that said, all is forgiven, let me lead the Cubs to the pennant. But the grandson of the initial denier said, I don't think you can bring that goat in here still.

• 42:40Speaker 02

  What I don't get is, they really like set this all up with the red carpet and still didn't let him in? Like, so the Cubs were not involved?

• 42:46Josh Clark?

  No, they weren't involved. There was, I think, a Chicago Tribune columnist who was kinda helping with the whole thing.

• 42:52Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 42:53Josh Clark?

  And the Cubs were not, I guess, informed ahead of time, or...

• 42:57Speaker 02

  Like, surely they knew this was coming. There was a red carpet out there.

• 43:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah, they saw the red carpet and they were like, "No, this isn't happening." So they actually turned a second goat away, a descendant of Murphy's, like you said, in 1973. That's not what you do when you're trying to lift a curse. And so this curse continued on for many, many more years. But over those same years, Chuck, the Cubs changed hands several times. I think the Tribune owned them for a while, and some of these later owners, they had a different feeling about letting a goat in the park. They were a little more goat-friendly.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. They're like, "If you can have a bunch of guys racing around the field in a footrace dressed as hardware and tools..."

• 43:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 43:43Speaker 02

  Or at least that's what they have at the Braves stadium.

• 43:45Josh Clark?

  Is it just the Braves? I've wondered.

• 43:47Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, it's a Home Depot thing, which is Atlanta, so, I mean, they do all kinds of funny races. I think sometimes in, like, in some cities, it's like a sausage races a bratwurst, races a hot dog...

• 43:58Josh Clark?

  I'll bet I can guess those cities.

• 44:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a drill that races a hammer and then like a wrench or something, I don't know. But at any rate, they're like, "If we can do that kind of silliness, we can let a goat in here to lift this curse." And at the very least, it'll be some fun press.

• 44:14Josh Clark?

  Right. So they did. There were actually a number of times, Sam Sianus, who led in Socrates in 1973, or tried to. They brought him back, and with other descendants of Murphy, over the course of a few decades, he would walk the goat around the field and say like, "We're lifting the curse. We're lifting the curse," right?

• 44:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:33Josh Clark?

  Remember, they only had four postseason appearances, 1984, '89, '98, and 2003?

• 44:40Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 44:40Josh Clark?

  All four of those postseason appearances came on years when they brought in Murphy's descendants to try to lift the curse.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  Okay. This is what I want to know. Were those the only four times they brought the descendant in?

• 44:55Josh Clark?

  Those, yes, as far as I understand, yes.

• 44:58Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 44:58Josh Clark?

  Those were the only four times over that span of those years when they brought them in. I'm, I'm pretty sure.

• 45:04Speaker 02

  I think that seals the deal then.

• 45:06Josh Clark?

  It does.

• 45:06Speaker 02

  This one is actually real.

• 45:07Josh Clark?

  Yes. And Chuck, they finally removed the curse in 2016. Sam Siannis did with help from the ghost of Murphy.

• 45:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. So in this case, Sam Siannis rang the trokani bell that was warned by the original goat in the 1945 World Series. And that year, as everyone knows, in 2016, the Cubs won it all. They, they beat the Cleveland Indians and it was kind of one of the, one of the great World Series. It ended in very dramatic fashion.

• 45:37Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it went into extra innings in game seven.

• 45:40Speaker 02

  And I think that was the game that he rang the bell, right?

• 45:43Josh Clark?

  Yeah, apparently he rang it while they were going into extra innings and the Cubs won.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  That's incredible.

• 45:49Josh Clark?

  Yeah. As they say, Cubs win, Cubs win, Cubs win.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  Man, that is a great Harry Carey.

• 45:58Josh Clark?

  Let's move on, Chuck. Let's head on over to Hong Kong.

• 46:03Speaker 02

  That's right. Jackie Chan, one of my favorites.

• 46:07Speaker 02

  Although I haven't seen a movie of his in a while, we did watch the, and I had never seen them. I might've talked about it on the show, but the, the one with Owen Wilson, the westerns, what were those? Shanghai Noon.

• 46:17Josh Clark?

  Shanghai Noon.

• 46:19Speaker 02

  And it's sequel. And I don't know why I never saw those and they were both quite delightful, especially to watch with, you know, like a nine or 10 year old.

• 46:26Josh Clark?

  How do you know they were delightful if you've not seen them?

• 46:29Speaker 02

  No, I did see them.

• 46:30Josh Clark?

  Oh, I see. Okay.

• 46:31Speaker 02

  I had not seen them up until like last year when we finally saw them.

• 46:35Josh Clark?

  Gotcha. Yeah, he does make some pretty delightful movies. Rumble in the Bronx was pretty good.

• 46:39Speaker 02

  I love that one. Yeah.

• 46:40Josh Clark?

  The Rush Hours were fairly fine.

• 46:45Speaker 02

  I did not see those.

• 46:46Josh Clark?

  They were watchable. Chris, Chris Tucker is pretty great.

• 46:49Speaker 02

  I like Chris Tucker.

• 46:51Josh Clark?

  At any rate, Jackie Chan is pretty big in the West, but he is. He can eclipse the sun in China. He's been an enormous star since the eighties when he started starring in movies. He started out as a stuntman and he kind of came, well, I don't want to say in the other side of the camera, but he actually started acting in front of a camera that was rolling and filming essentially, but as himself, not as some other actor, I guess is what I'm trying to say. And then he became a star very quickly. And this is a time, well, in the entire world where the internet wasn't around, but I think China had access to it even later than other people. So the choice of stars to choose from was much more limited,

• 47:34Josh Clark?

  which let Jackie Chan just get bigger and bigger and bigger over the years. So he's huge in China.

• 47:40Speaker 02

  He is, and my friend, I think you missed your calling. You could have been a director with your knack for the vernacular.

• 47:49Josh Clark?

  You just made me snort, Chuck.

• 47:51Speaker 02

  All right, so Jackie Chan gets famous in the United States finally. That Rumble, Rumble in the Bronx that you mentioned was his, I think his first big American film in 1995. I'm not going to count the Cannonball Run movies.

• 48:06Josh Clark?

  Oh, was he in that?

• 48:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:08Josh Clark?

  In the original ones?

• 48:11Speaker 02

  I mean, truly, they haven't been remade, right?

• 48:13Josh Clark?

  I think they have.

• 48:14Speaker 02

  Have they really?

• 48:15Josh Clark?

  I think. I just say stuff though sometimes.

• 48:18Speaker 02

  He was in, he was in Cannonball Run.

• 48:20Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 48:20Speaker 02

  Like, wait a minute, now I'm doubting myself. I'm pretty sure, remember there were the two, you know, the, the two, I think they were supposed to be Japanese in the movie, that didn't speak English, that were racing. And I think Jackie Chan was one of them, but now I'm doubting myself. I don't know, we'll look it up maybe.

• 48:36Josh Clark?

  I thought they only used Italian actors to play Japanese people back then.

• 48:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's true, old Hollywood. But here's where Jackie Chan's curse comes in because he has endorsed a lot of brands over the years as a pitch person, and a lot of those brands have gone out of business after he pitched them.

• 48:55Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so much so that there's a, what they call a Jackie Chan curse, where if you are going to take advantage of his fame, bask in, in the glow of his glory and say, hold this product while I take a photo of you and then turn that photo into billboards and maybe we'll have you move around with my product and turn those into actual commercials too, that we'll put on television. You do so at your own risk because there's a lot of companies that have taken a nosedive after they hired him as their pitch man.

• 49:24Speaker 02

  That's right, by the way, confirmed. That was Jackie Chan in Cannonball Run.

• 49:28Josh Clark?

  Wowee.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  But I have a feeling he didn't speak English at the time, and I don't think the character spoke English, so it didn't matter.

• 49:35Josh Clark?

  Yeah, he learned everything he knows about acting from Dom DeLuise.

• 49:40Speaker 02

  Maybe so, who I met when I was six years old.

• 49:43Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah?

• 49:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I met Dom DeLuise walking around Stone Mountain Park one time, and I was delighted because I was a big, big Cannonball Run fan. And he signed a envelope, a, my mom had a, you know, when you get autographs in those days, before the selfie. And my mom had a bill, like with the little cellophane window, and he signed that envelope. So somewhere in my past, I had Dom DeLuise's name scribbled on a bill to Georgia Bauer.

• 50:11Josh Clark?

  That's wonderful.

• 50:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. So should we read through some of these that went out of business?

• 50:16Josh Clark?

  Yeah, because some of them went out of business in fairly dramatic fashion, too.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm gonna pick this one then. The Seineer Frozen Dumpling Company went out of business after staff was found in their dumplings.

• 50:30Josh Clark?

  Yeah. There's a company that made video compact discs, also known as VCDs. They went bankrupt, and the head of the company went to jail for fraud after they hired him.

• 50:41Speaker 02

  Wait, is it VCD something?

• 50:43Josh Clark?

  VCDs.

• 50:44Speaker 02

  So did that predate the DVD?

• 50:47Josh Clark?

  Yes, I believe it did.

• 50:49Speaker 02

  Wow, I've never heard of this. And it wasn't like, obviously, the big platter, like LaserDisc or whatever?

• 50:54Josh Clark?

  No, they were compact discs, actually, and they were video compact discs. I don't know what year this was.

• 51:01Speaker 02

  Huh, that's crazy.

• 51:02Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I think it does predate the DVDs, or else they would have just called them DVDs.

• 51:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess you're right. Here's one for you. Do you know what DVD stands for?

• 51:11Josh Clark?

  Direct-to-video direct.

• 51:16Speaker 02

  I think a lot of people, in fact, I heard our pal Scott Aukerman on his movie show, Scott Hasn't Seen The Other Day, said digital video disc. And I was gonna text him and shame him, but I didn't. But it's actually digital versatile disc.

• 51:29Josh Clark?

  Oh, that's the, yeah.

• 51:30Speaker 02

  Strange little tidbit.

• 51:32Josh Clark?

  You can call it DVD or a VCD. So it is quite versatile.

• 51:36Speaker 02

  All right. An air conditioning company that Jackie Chan endorsed had a unit explode and sales dropped. And I don't know if they went out of business, but that's not a good look.

• 51:46Josh Clark?

  Also, there is an herbal hair loss shampoo called Ba Wang. And I don't think they went out of business, but their sales obviously plummeted after it was misreported that it contained a carcinogen. So there are also other brands where like their, their product just didn't get off the ground, even though they had Jackie Chan as their pitchman. Volkswagen had a panel van called the Caddy that they just stopped making because no one was buying them. Fen Wang Cola fizzled out. I see in every single article on the Jackie Chan curse. There was a children's computer called the Subor, Subor Learning Machine. All of these just failed, failed, failed. So Jackie Chan is clearly cursed, right?

• 52:27Speaker 02

  That's right. Clearly cursed. To be fair, Jackie Chan is one of those guys in his home country where they would just walk up to him and say, hey, we'll give you 10 grand if you'll stand here for 25 seconds and hold this thing. He was down with endorsing a lot of products. So you probably got about a 50 50 shot of a Jackie Chan product being endorsed and not doing so well.

• 52:52Josh Clark?

  So it's basically just the law of statistics that he's willing to pitch so many things that of course, some of them are going to be clunkers, right?

• 53:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, unless you count tennis.

• 53:02Josh Clark?

  Yeah, this Jackie Chan curse extended or just showed up or kind of spread its girth across the 2025 Australian Open. Not one, not two, but three different tennis players who made it to the final rounds. Arina Sabalenka, Alexander Zevrov, and Jelena Ostapenko, they made it to the final rounds and all three of them lost their matches after they met Jackie Chan and shook his hand.

• 53:28Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 53:29Josh Clark?

  That's really something. I wouldn't get too close to Jackie Chan if I had a business or was a professional athlete.

• 53:36Speaker 02

  Owen Wilson did all right.

• 53:38Josh Clark?

  Did he though?

• 53:42Speaker 02

  Do you want to do this last one, or should we call it a day?

• 53:46Josh Clark?

  Uh, sure. We can, we can call it a day.

• 53:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. I, I think, uh, in, in true to our curse, we can never get through a full list. And everyone's just gonna have to wonder what this last curse was. Uh, I think I had heard it called the zero factor at one point, so let's just tease that.

• 54:03Josh Clark?

  Okay, we'll call it that. Uh, you got anything else about curses, Chuck?

• 54:09Speaker 02

  I got nothing else.

• 54:10Josh Clark?

  Well, we gotta put the Wayback Machine in the shop because we don't normally use it this often. So it needs a good tune up, I think.

• 54:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's making a weird noise, too. That clunky thing?

• 54:19Josh Clark?

  And the smoke, too.

• 54:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:21Josh Clark?

  Uh, well, since we just talked about the Wayback Machine, that means it's time for listener mail.

• 54:29Speaker 02

  Uh, this is from Brett about our episode about Tippi Hedren getting the Vietnamese nail salon started in the United States. Hey, guys, I just listened to that episode and it reminded me of a documentary called The Donut King about Ted, and I don't know how to pronounce this, N-G-O-Y. Uh, he's Cambodian. I'm gonna say, mm, you know what? I'm not gonna try.

• 54:51Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 54:52Speaker 02

  But I know that, uh, N-G-E-N is pronounced Wen.

• 55:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I think it's like N-G-Y-E-N or something like that. But yeah, so this would be Yoi? Yoi?

• 55:07Speaker 02

  Maybe. We're butchering this. I'm sorry, everybody. We're trying. Anyway, guys, I often wondered about, uh, why so many donut shops, especially here in Southern California, are operated by Asian families. Uh, the documentary is about a Cambodian immigrant who opened a donut shop, then used it as a loophole to bring other Cambodian citizens over during Pol Pot's reign and trained them to have their own donut shops, which he helped fund.

• 55:31Josh Clark?

  Neat.

• 55:32Speaker 02

  Uh, he ended up helping dozens, maybe even hundreds of families immigrate. And he, uh, and he basically had a West Coast donut empire. Uh, he wasn't without his flaws, though, you should know, and the documentary touches on that stuff. But totally worth a watch. Maybe a candidate for short stuff. Uh, thanks for entertaining me at work all day and keep up the nerdy work. That is from Brett with one T.

• 55:51Josh Clark?

  Nice, Brett. Thank you for that. Definitely hadn't heard that story, and it sounds quite worth looking into.

• 55:58Josh Clark?

  If you want to be like Brett and recommend a great idea for a short stuff or a regular episode, or say, go watch this documentary, we always welcome that. You can send it off to [email protected].

• 56:14Speaker 00

  Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts MyHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 56:30Josh Clark?

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