Selects: Birthmarks: Probably Not the Mark of the Devil

It’s a pretty safe assumption that people have been born with birthmarks since humanity began, and between then and now we’ve come up with some wacky, even dangerous, explanations for them – even a few that survive still today. Learn all about them in this classic episode. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Josh Clark?

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• 1:37Speaker 02

  Hey, everybody. Chuck here. We're moving forward in time in 2020 for this select, the year of COVID with our February 20th episode, birthmarks, colon, probably not the mark of the devil.

• 1:50Speaker 02

  I honestly don't remember much about this one, but when I was looking through our 2020 list, it made me want to go listen to it. And so that's what I'm going to do and I think you should too.

• 2:03Speaker 03

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio.

• 2:13Josh Clark?

  Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant over there and there's Jerry. Jerry's back, everybody.

• 2:21Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 2:22Josh Clark?

  And all the listeners said, "What happened to Josh T.?"

• 2:26Speaker 02

  What are we doing? Did we decide?

• 2:27Josh Clark?

  Yeah, we're gonna do birthmarks.

• 2:29Speaker 02

  Okay, great.

• 2:29Josh Clark?

  Check the title, Chuck.

• 2:31Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I have two things in front of me.

• 2:35Josh Clark?

  How you doing?

• 2:35Speaker 02

  I'm great. How are you?

• 2:36Josh Clark?

  I'm good.

• 2:37Speaker 02

  You got any birthmarks?

• 2:38Josh Clark?

  I do.

• 2:39Speaker 02

  What you got?

• 2:40Josh Clark?

  I've got something under my right armpit.

• 2:44Speaker 02

  You're like, "It looks like Richard Nixon."

• 2:49Josh Clark?

  Close. It looks like Spiro Agnew.

• 2:53Josh Clark?

  Do you remember when Mad Magazine used to make fun of Spiro Agnew and you're like, "I have no idea who that is."

• 2:57Speaker 02

  I think it was the name, maybe?

• 2:58Josh Clark?

  No, it was because, like, they hated his politics.

• 3:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, me too.

• 3:02Josh Clark?

  But then there was a Simpsons where Milhouse is like, "They're making fun of Spiro Agnew again. He must work there," or something. And I remember specifically thinking that he must work there.

• 3:11Speaker 02

  Oh, he referenced Mad Magazine? Oh, that's funny.

• 3:14Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 3:14Speaker 02

  So you've got a, under your armpit, birthmark?

• 3:18Josh Clark?

  Yeah, how about you?

• 3:19Speaker 02

  I don't think I do, actually. What I have a lot of now, because I'm an old man speeding toward death, are skin tags.

• 3:31Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah. Those are not birthmarks.

• 3:33Speaker 02

  Around the neck and armpit, that's where they, like, tend to gather.

• 3:36Josh Clark?

  That's just your skin, you know, really going at it.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  I used to have them clipped and I did, I did that for a while, but it's been a while. But now, I went in recently, it was so annoying, it was one of these, our medical system is just broken. It was one of those reminders, because I went in to get it taken care of like I usually do and I got in there and the guy was like, "Oh, well, we don't do this now unless you make another kind of appointment." I was like, "Well, can I just make this, that, since I'm here, sitting in your office?"

• 4:05Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 4:05Speaker 02

  He's like, "No, no, no, those take much longer. These are just 10-minute appointments and that, that'll take like an hour." And some of them have their own vascular system, so they need to be cauterized. And I was like, "Oh, okay, so I'm just leaving?" And he was like, "Yes." He's like, "If you want to make that other appointment." And then they refunded the money for that appointment, which was nice.

• 4:25Josh Clark?

  Oh, there you go. That was nice.

• 4:26Speaker 02

  The copay. But then said, "Make the longer appointment if you want to come back."

• 4:30Josh Clark?

  Huh, so are you going to?

• 4:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, I mean, they're not like medically dangerous or anything, but they're rather unsightly.

• 4:40Josh Clark?

  It's fine.

• 4:41Speaker 02

  When they get long and big.

• 4:42Josh Clark?

  Well, long, sure. I mean, how long are we talking, like?

• 4:45Speaker 02

  I mean, some of the ones are like, you know, quarter inch.

• 4:49Josh Clark?

  So, okay, I was just about to say how big that was. Let me see if I can figure it out in metric. It's a few centimeters, I think, is what you just did.

• 4:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I want to get them clipped again. So I'm gonna make that longer appointment.

• 5:01Josh Clark?

  All right.

• 5:01Speaker 02

  And I think it will be painful.

• 5:04Josh Clark?

  Is it painful? I've never had one clipped.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  The regular clipping, the small ones aren't a big deal because they just hit it with a little quick shot and then clip it, and it's no big deal, but...

• 5:13Josh Clark?

  What kind of a shot?

• 5:14Speaker 02

  Like a, you know, a needle, like a little numbing, numbing thing.

• 5:19Josh Clark?

  Okay, I gotcha.

• 5:20Speaker 02

  Like with a needle.

• 5:20Josh Clark?

  Like lidocaine.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  Whatever, I don't know. They don't, they don't spray it with the freezy stuff.

• 5:26Josh Clark?

  No, you're thinking of the stuff for athlete's foot. This is like a shot, lidocaine.

• 5:31Speaker 02

  But anyway, the ones that are big that require cauterizing, I'm sure that doesn't feel great, even if they've numbed it up.

• 5:38Josh Clark?

  You just get the acetylene torch out?

• 5:40Speaker 02

  And imagine I'll have to shave my armpits because if you're torching something near armpit hair.

• 5:45Josh Clark?

  Plus, you just want to look good.

• 5:46Speaker 02

  Maybe. I've never shaved my pits. Might start that.

• 5:50Josh Clark?

  I usually, why not? I'll bet that's itchy, though.

• 5:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, maybe.

• 5:54Josh Clark?

  Anytime you shave something, it starts to grow out, it's itchy, you know what I'm saying? So, I used to get warts, actually, when I was a kid.

• 6:02Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah?

• 6:03Josh Clark?

  And I remember going into the dermatologist and they'd go into the freezer, put on these huge rubber gloves and pull out like this thermos of, I want to say nitroglycerin, that's not it.

• 6:13Speaker 02

  No.

• 6:14Josh Clark?

  You know what I'm talking about.

• 6:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, the cold stuff.

• 6:16Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and it would freeze

• 6:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:19Josh Clark?

  my wart basically right off, right there.

• 6:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:22Josh Clark?

  It'd just kind of sting for a second, and that was it.

• 6:24Speaker 02

  I never really had warts.

• 6:26Josh Clark?

  Believe me, buddy, you lucked out. Because if you're a little kid

• 6:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure.

• 6:31Josh Clark?

  in grade school and you have, like, it wasn't like, it wasn't coated with them. But, you know, like, I'd get one like here between my forefinger and my thumb, or I have one on my elbow or something like that.

• 6:42Speaker 02

  Just ammo for jerks.

• 6:43Josh Clark?

  Other kids zero in on that stuff.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  Yep, uh-huh.

• 6:45Josh Clark?

  And you're the, you're the little weird kid who is already the fat kid, now with warts. New and improved.

• 6:54Speaker 02

  I had freckles a lot, more than I do now, because freckles tend to fade.

• 6:59Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 7:00Speaker 02

  As you get older. And freckles are, I guess, a kind of, well, they're not a kind of birthmark.

• 7:03Josh Clark?

  No.

• 7:04Speaker 02

  Because you're not born with freckles. But I did look into it. Freckles are just an abundance of melanin.

• 7:09Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 7:10Speaker 02

  Like, collected together.

• 7:11Josh Clark?

  Well, that's basically what a mole is, which is a type of birthmark if you're born with it.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 7:16Josh Clark?

  So.

• 7:16Speaker 02

  I love freckles, though.

• 7:18Josh Clark?

  Freckles are great.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  Super cute.

• 7:19Josh Clark?

  Freckles are great, moles are great, birthmarks, especially interesting ones, are great.

• 7:23Speaker 02

  Warts are great. That's why the term warts and all came about.

• 7:27Josh Clark?

  It's true.

• 7:27Speaker 02

  Because that's how you should love.

• 7:29Josh Clark?

  That is true, Chuck.

• 7:30Speaker 02

  Man, quit making fun of people, kids.

• 7:33Josh Clark?

  Well, that's the thing.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  You're so mean.

• 7:34Josh Clark?

  Birthmarks have been around since the dawn of humanity.

• 7:38Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:39Josh Clark?

  I'm guessing. And people have probably been ostracized because of their birthmarks since the dawn of humanity. And, you know, for a very long time, people were ostracized for their birthmarks because of some really stupid ideas. Like, that it meant you were a witch.

• 7:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 7:56Josh Clark?

  Or it meant you were touched by Satan.

• 7:58Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:59Josh Clark?

  All sorts of stuff like that.

• 8:01Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:02Josh Clark?

  And then, over time, it got a little more innocuous. But even still today, there are parts of the world where you can find people who are ostracized because of their birthmarks. And then, even in the developed world, the Western world, which is rational and based more on science, you can still find yourself, you know, at the receiving end of being ostracized, maybe not because you're a witch, but just because you have a birthmark. You look different. And so.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  I've seen parents react to it if their baby has, like, a strawberry mark on their head.

• 8:30Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 8:31Speaker 02

  Like, I've seen them feel the need to say, like, "Oh, you know, this, you know, will go away," or something like that.

• 8:36Josh Clark?

  I was reading this birthmark support group from Great Britain, and they were saying this one mom had cards printed up explaining what her child's birthmark was, because sometimes she just couldn't, she just didn't have it together enough to have a conversation with a stranger who'd walked up and been like, "What's up with your kid's face?" And rather than belt them, she would just give them a card and then just probably go home and weep or something like that.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  Right.

• 9:00Josh Clark?

  Knowing, not for herself, but the life that her kid was gonna have to face. Not because her kid has a birthmark, but because the rest of the world are schmucks.

• 9:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:09Josh Clark?

  That's the, that's the long and short of it.

• 9:10Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 9:11Josh Clark?

  All right.

• 9:11Speaker 02

  Children are mean.

• 9:12Josh Clark?

  We managed to find a soapbox even in the birthmarks episode.

• 9:15Speaker 02

  I bet a kid, probably a collection of kids, could still make you cry if they start, if they started it on.

• 9:22Josh Clark?

  I'd just start kicking, throwing elbows. I'd just hold my arms out and start twirling around really fast and whatever got hit, got hit.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  People would be like, is Josh fighting a bunch of children? And be like, yeah, they made fun of him.

• 9:34Josh Clark?

  Yeah. They'd be like, I shoved one in a grocery store once.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  Oh, man. I'll never forget that lady.

• 9:41Josh Clark?

  So let's talk birthmarks. Chuck, it turns out, there's a lot to know.

• 9:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're usually not a big deal. They aren't painful. They're usually harmless. A lot of times, they go away. We're gonna detail the ones that do and that don't go away and the ones that are of more concern. But generally speaking, science doesn't really know why they come about to begin with. But they are something that doctors will sometimes wanna keep an eye on. And that's the intro.

• 10:15Josh Clark?

  That's intro number seven.

• 10:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a couple of big categories. Vascular and pigmented. And let's talk about some of these. Vascular are usually reddish because they have to do with blood vessels.

• 10:30Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I think reddish is a very common, when you think birthmarks, you think reddish typically.

• 10:35Speaker 02

  I think brownish.

• 10:36Josh Clark?

  Brownish too. Apparently, they can come in a whole rainbow of colors. Blue, brown, black, pink.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:43Josh Clark?

  White, although I take issue with that. Purplish or tan. And I take issue with white because I think white is like a reverse birthmark, although technically, it would still count as a birthmark.

• 10:54Speaker 02

  So the whole rest of your body is a birthmark and that one little spot is okay?

• 10:58Josh Clark?

  That's right.

• 11:00Josh Clark?

  Birthmarks tend to be an aggregation of either pigment or blood, as we'll see.

• 11:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:05Josh Clark?

  And white is like an area where pigment is absent.

• 11:09Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 11:10Josh Clark?

  So I guess it still counts as a birthmark, but it's not really a birthmark if you go into a dermatologist's office.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  Right.

• 11:16Josh Clark?

  They'll be like, "No, you got this all wrong."

• 11:18Speaker 02

  And like we said, the skin tags and freckles and things like that, they come later in life, although freckles can start out very early, but it's still not a birthmark, because you're not born with that mark.

• 11:31Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and even as we'll see, some types of moles don't technically qualify as birthmarks, even though they typically fall under the banner of birthmarks. You have to be born with something for it to count as a birthmark.

• 11:41Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 11:42Josh Clark?

  Although that's not even fully true, as we'll see.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  This is just full of lies.

• 11:46Josh Clark?

  Everybody who studies birthmarks needs to get their stuff together.

• 11:52Speaker 02

  So the macular, they're called flat sometimes, macular stains.

• 11:57Josh Clark?

  And we're in the vascular category, right?

• 11:59Speaker 02

  Right. This is the non-pigmented. These are usually caused by enlarged blood vessels. These have some cute names that go along with them.

• 12:07Josh Clark?

  Love them.

• 12:08Speaker 02

  Angel kisses.

• 12:09Josh Clark?

  Great.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  I think some of these can be because of where they're found, although I've heard people cross-referencing. Like, I think an angel kiss is usually on the forehead.

• 12:20Josh Clark?

  Oh, really?

• 12:20Speaker 02

  But not always. A stork bite is usually on the back of the neck.

• 12:24Josh Clark?

  Oh, that makes sense.

• 12:25Speaker 02

  But I've also, when you Google "stork bite," there are some like right on the tip of the nose, and people call them that.

• 12:30Josh Clark?

  I took it to me more like that those names were derived from the age that they're, like, kids who are born with this, and then it tends to go away at an early age.

• 12:42Speaker 02

  Oh, interesting.

• 12:43Josh Clark?

  That's what it's associated with. You know, like, the stork brings the baby.

• 12:45Speaker 02

  And the angels.

• 12:47Josh Clark?

  Well, angels love babies.

• 12:49Speaker 02

  What about the salmon patch?

• 12:51Josh Clark?

  I don't understand it at all.

• 12:53Speaker 02

  They are usually above the neck. They usually, or a lot of times, they'll disappear and fade away by the time they're two, three years old. But not always. Sometimes they'll last.

• 13:06Josh Clark?

  Yeah, but for the most part, if you have a macular, flat, vascular birthmark on your kid, they're probably going to outgrow it, is just really no other way to put it. They outgrow that birthmark eventually.

• 13:19Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 13:20Josh Clark?

  Most often. Port wine stains are a whole different ballgame.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 13:25Josh Clark?

  They look like kind of what they sound like. They're usually kind of a purplish-red, where it looks like, well, port or wine has been spilled.

• 13:35Speaker 02

  I would know nothing about what a wine spill looks like.

• 13:37Josh Clark?

  Sure. Right? Because you never, ever spill all your wine. It all makes it into your mouth.

• 13:42Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 13:43Josh Clark?

  I've seen it. So, port wine stain, I say that it's like a whole different kettle of fish. It's in the same category as macular, because they're vascular. It's like an aggregation of overdeveloped blood vessels, kind of close to the skin. But they seem to come from like a whole different place. There's a whole different reason. And in fact, we should say this, Chuck, because this is really important. If you go up to a dermatologist or anybody who would know what they're talking about, and you say, "Hey, where do birthmarks come from? What causes birthmarks?" They would say, "We actually don't know."

• 14:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:26Josh Clark?

  The closest that they've come is with port wine stains, from what I can tell. They figured out that there's a gene where this molecular switch that's supposed to go on and off is locked in the on position, and that they think that this is what causes port wine stains. And the reason that they found it is because about 6% of kids who are born with a port wine stain birthmark develop something called Sturge Weber syndrome, which is a neurological condition.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  Oh, interesting.

• 14:55Josh Clark?

  And it's, if you have a port wine stain birthmark, it does not mean you have Sturge Weber. But if you have Sturge Weber, you have a port wine birthmark.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  Gotcha.

• 15:05Josh Clark?

  6% of port wine birthmarks. Cases have Sturge Weber. It's actually a symptom.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  But 100% of people with that condition have

• 15:14Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 15:14Speaker 02

  The port Weinstein.

• 15:15Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and so in investigating the syndrome and the link between it and the port Weinstein birthmark, they found this gene that they think is the culprit.

• 15:25Speaker 02

  All right. Well, they never go away. A lot of times they'll get darker as you become older. And these are not a big deal health-wise either unless it's something near your eyes that can affect your vision, and then they might want to take a look at it.

• 15:40Josh Clark?

  I also saw that in some cases, they can start to get lumpy and actually become disfiguring as you age, too.

• 15:48Speaker 02

  I did see those.

• 15:48Josh Clark?

  And they can also, once they lump, they can scar, too. So a lot of people seek treatment for port Weinstein birthmarks, as we'll see.

• 15:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, strawberry marks is what I referenced at the beginning. You might see these on little BBs. They are hemangiomas. Is that right?

• 16:06Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 16:07Speaker 02

  And these, most of the times, I saw even less than 30%, but it says here 30% are visible at birth. Most of the times, though, they'll develop between four and six weeks.

• 16:18Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 16:19Speaker 02

  And I think by the time you hit six months, if you're going to have one, it will be visible by that point.

• 16:24Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 16:25Speaker 02

  You won't develop one of these at like the one-year mark.

• 16:28Josh Clark?

  No. But again, that's, there's that one, there's that loophole where it's like you, it still counts as a birthmark even though you weren't technically born with it. Drives me up the wall.

• 16:37Speaker 02

  Right. And these are a little more reddish, and you've probably seen these, like I said, on babies before because they're, you know, they're pretty common. They will, they have, they're raised off the skin. That's kind of one of the differentiators is they're not flat.

• 16:53Josh Clark?

  Right. So like hemagiome, hemagi, I've said it like five times in my head.

• 17:02Speaker 02

  Hemangiomas?

• 17:03Josh Clark?

  50 times, probably. Yes, and I can't say it out loud. Hemangiomas, macular and port Weinsteins, like we said, these are all overdeveloped. Blood vessels, clusters of blood vessels.

• 17:16Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 17:16Josh Clark?

  They're from blood vessels.

• 17:18Speaker 02

  That's like the sixth time we said that.

• 17:19Josh Clark?

  Which is why they have that reddish pigment is because the blood is close enough to the skin and it's clustered together. It's kind of almost pooled right there, right?

• 17:29Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 17:30Josh Clark?

  But it's not like a bruise or anything like that. It's the blood hasn't escaped the vessel. There's just a lot of vessels or big vessels all clumped together near the skin. What's interesting about hemangiomas, I did it Chuck. Hemangiomas.

• 17:44Speaker 02

  Nice work.

• 17:44Josh Clark?

  Thanks.

• 17:46Speaker 02

  Hemangiomas.

• 17:47Josh Clark?

  Oh man, did I miss it twice?

• 17:49Speaker 02

  I think there's an N in there that is being forgotten.

• 17:52Josh Clark?

  What's interesting about what you just mentioned is that in some cases, they can extend down into the body. And the further they extend down, they won't be reddish, they'll be bluish.

• 18:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, and they can even be on the organs. It's pretty rare, but it happens.

• 18:10Josh Clark?

  It is, and they can be threatening on the organs. You don't want to have a cluster of blood vessels on your organs. But back to the blue part. So the reason that they look blue is because as everybody knows, blood on its way back to the lungs to be oxygenated is blue.

• 18:29Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 18:30Josh Clark?

  That's not true. I'm sorry to set you up like that. I thought it was true up until this morning.

• 18:34Speaker 02

  That's why your veins are blue.

• 18:36Josh Clark?

  It's not.

• 18:36Speaker 02

  And as soon as you get cut and it hits that sweet, sweet oxygen.

• 18:39Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 18:40Speaker 02

  It just transforms into red.

• 18:41Josh Clark?

  That's what you thought, right?

• 18:43Speaker 02

  That's not what I thought as an adult, but that's what I thought as a small child.

• 18:46Josh Clark?

  That's what I thought until this morning.

• 18:48Speaker 02

  No.

• 18:49Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  Come on, you knew that.

• 18:50Josh Clark?

  No.

• 18:50Speaker 02

  Really?

• 18:51Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 18:51Speaker 02

  You thought blood was blue?

• 18:53Josh Clark?

  Yes, I thought deoxygenated blood was blue.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 18:56Josh Clark?

  Well, okay, well, do you understand why it appears blue?

• 19:00Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, no, but I just knew that that was like a playground falsehood.

• 19:07Josh Clark?

  Well, I was too busy

• 19:08Speaker 02

  Because veins are blue.

• 19:09Josh Clark?

  Thinking about how many

• 19:10Speaker 02

  You were fighting off bullies.

• 19:12Josh Clark?

  I was covered with it to learn this.

• 19:14Speaker 02

  You were like, I'm gonna draw some sweet blue blood out of that jerk.

• 19:18Josh Clark?

  So

• 19:19Speaker 02

  With my fists.

• 19:19Josh Clark?

  The reason it's blue is because the deeper it is, the less blue light is able to penetrate. So the less that can be absorbed. And so the light that's reflected tends to be blue more than say like red, which penetrates deeper and is absorbed.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  That has to do with blue foods, too, which is a bit for the next episode.

• 19:38Josh Clark?

  Thank you.

• 19:39Speaker 02

  Just put a pin in that.

• 19:40Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  Uh, these strawberry marks, though, back to those, they, uh, will disappear usually by the time a kid is like into double digits. Um, if they're large, sometimes you might see a scar. Uh, these are around the head and neck as well and are, uh, most commonly found on Caucasian girls.

• 19:59Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 20:01Speaker 02

  But they're not, they don't have a real impact on development either. Um, but if they are really big and puffy, again, they could, and around the eyes or ears, they could interfere with hearing and vision and stuff like that.

• 20:11Josh Clark?

  Right, yeah. And if you, if they're on the, on your internal organs, it's a problem, too.

• 20:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 20:16Josh Clark?

  So I think we should take a break because astoundingly, we're 20 minutes in and we have not taken a break.

• 20:21Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 20:22Josh Clark?

  Um, so we'll be back to birthmarks right after this.

• 20:36Speaker 04

  First thought is like, wow, how are we gonna do all this?

• 20:39Josh Clark?

  Hey, this is Josh and Chuck from Stuff You Should Know.

• 20:42Speaker 02

  That's Alan Goya, planning engineer at AT&T, and he's talking about Intuit Dome, home of the Los Angeles Clippers, where every seat, screen, phone, and transaction is connected with AT&T fiber and 5G, redefining the fan's experience. And Alan's master plan made it all possible.

• 20:58Speaker 04

  It was gonna rival anything that was already built. And that takes quite a bit of people and different teams to all be on the same page.

• 21:05Josh Clark?

  That includes field services manager, Drexel Jones. His team made sure it all came together and held up on game day.

• 21:11Speaker 05

  Through what Alan's whole crew designed, we connected the event visitors to the world.

• 21:17Speaker 02

  And after years of hard work and collaboration, it was opening night.

• 21:21Speaker 05

  To actually see the whole stadium light up and data's flowing is a beautiful thing.

• 21:25Speaker 04

  What the fans experience is incredible. It gave me a lot of pride.

• 21:28Josh Clark?

  AT&T, connecting fans to what they love.

• 21:32Speaker 06

  Connecting changes everything. AT&T.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  You know, you're never done decorating your home. You know what I mean?

• 21:41Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 21:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, because it's a process. There's always something you could do, or buy, or update. The only question is, what's next? For us, our animals just wear out our rugs so quickly. It's usually a new rug.

• 21:52Josh Clark?

  Well, Chuck, whether you need a rug, or whatever is next for you, you can go to Wayfair. It's the smart place to get it.

• 21:59Speaker 02

  That's right. Whatever your style, whatever your budget, whatever you're looking for, Wayfair makes it easy to find it. And you can feel good about your purchases, too, because Wayfair verified products go through a thorough 10-point quality inspection.

• 22:10Josh Clark?

  And with over 20 million 5-star reviews, Wayfair must be doing something right. You can find pieces made for real life and get even more value with Wayfair Rewards. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com.

• 22:36Josh Clark?

  Everyone has a story to tell. What's yours? The moment you met your partner, landed that promotion? For people living with a rare disease, life can feel divided into before the diagnosis and all the after moments that follow. On Voices of VivGart, VivGart is also known as its generic name, Efgartigimod alfa Fcab, you'll hear powerful stories from people facing challenges and embracing a life with a rare disease.

• 23:00Speaker 02

  Join host Andra Stratten as she guides listeners through honest conversations about life after diagnosis. You'll hear how each guest worked with her care team on their treatment plan, as well as their personal challenges, setbacks, progress, and moments of connection.

• 23:13Josh Clark?

  These stories reveal that life is bigger than a moment, a condition, or a tough day. Listen to Voices of VivGart on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  Okay, to recap, remember vascular blood birthmarks are reddish because of blood vessels.

• 23:44Josh Clark?

  Precisely.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  If anyone misses that question on the quiz tomorrow.

• 23:47Josh Clark?

  You're toast.

• 23:48Speaker 02

  It's not our fault.

• 23:50Josh Clark?

  So, the other kind of birthmarks are pigmented birthmarks.

• 23:54Speaker 02

  Nothing to do with blood vessels.

• 23:56Josh Clark?

  Well, I don't know. There could be a blood vessel or two involved, but no, not really.

• 24:00Speaker 02

  No, this is because like freckles, like I was talking about, is just a collection of melanin that's brought out by sun exposure.

• 24:07Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and you have melanocytes, melanin cells, melatonin cells, or melanin, one of the two, all over your body. It gives you like the color to your skin. Some people have more, some people have less, but everybody has them. But like you were saying, when they kind of congregate together, that's when they form these pigmented spots that we know as birthmarks.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  Right. We are, in our house, my daughter's at the age now where she has started to notice skin color.

• 24:36Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah?

• 24:37Speaker 02

  Which is something that you, you know, every parent has to deal with at some point.

• 24:40Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 24:40Speaker 02

  And that's how it was recommended to us to talk about it was scientifically, being like, hey, everyone's the same. We've got different skin tones because of science. Some people have more melanin than other people.

• 24:52Josh Clark?

  Is that why you had me over to dinner and started asking me about that?

• 24:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:56Josh Clark?

  You just wound me up and knew I'd go, huh?

• 24:59Speaker 02

  That's right. So, but I mean, that is tricky stuff for parents because what you're really talking about is the first talks of race.

• 25:08Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 25:09Speaker 02

  You know?

• 25:09Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  And you just, you have to do it in such a way that diffuses it almost. So we're just like, no, everyone's the same. Some people are lighter skinned, some people are darker skinned.

• 25:19Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 25:20Speaker 02

  Both of her best friends, though, are multiracial, which helps.

• 25:22Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, I'm sure.

• 25:23Speaker 02

  Because we can say, you know, your friend, blank. I'm not going to say names.

• 25:28Josh Clark?

  Jerry blank?

• 25:30Speaker 02

  She has two friends, they're both named Blank. We can just say, you know, her skin is a little darker than yours.

• 25:36Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  Because, you know, when you see her parents and try to explain all that and kids are like, oh, okay.

• 25:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah. How does this matter? Why does this have to do with Big Bird?

• 25:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 25:45Josh Clark?

  Can I please get back to it?

• 25:46Speaker 02

  Why is Big Bird yellow?

• 25:47Josh Clark?

  That's a great question.

• 25:48Speaker 02

  But these have some cute names too, and they're almost, well, that's not true. I was gonna say they're named

• 25:56Speaker 02

  because of what they look like, but really just the one is.

• 25:58Josh Clark?

  Yeah, there's really just two types of pigmented birthmarks, or broad categories of it.

• 26:03Speaker 02

  Yes, the very Parisian café latte.

• 26:08Josh Clark?

  Café au lait.

• 26:09Speaker 02

  Oh, café au lait, sorry, I misread that.

• 26:11Josh Clark?

  It's alright.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  A latte's different.

• 26:13Josh Clark?

  This has nothing to do with vascular aggregations of blood vessels.

• 26:18Speaker 02

  No. And do you get confused on coffee orders, or do you know all that stuff?

• 26:23Josh Clark?

  I'm pretty, pretty good with it.

• 26:24Speaker 02

  I don't know what any of them are. Like, anytime someone...

• 26:28Josh Clark?

  It's all just differing amounts of milk, steamed milk.

• 26:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, but like, when I hear like a macchiato or an americano.

• 26:36Josh Clark?

  Americano is just...

• 26:37Speaker 02

  I don't even know what these things are.

• 26:38Josh Clark?

  A shot of espresso, or multiple shots of espresso with ultra-hot water.

• 26:43Speaker 02

  Right.

• 26:43Josh Clark?

  That's an americano.

• 26:44Speaker 02

  I think that's what our friend Chad Crowley drinks.

• 26:49Josh Clark?

  It's just a really, really, really hot, black coffee.

• 26:53Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 26:54Josh Clark?

  That's all.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 26:56Josh Clark?

  Macchiato, you got me.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 26:58Josh Clark?

  Like, cappuccino, there's a lot, there's like more foam than milk, latte's more milk than foam.

• 27:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I know those two.

• 27:05Josh Clark?

  It's all just milk, or foam, or coffee.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  What's a café au lait?

• 27:08Josh Clark?

  Café au lait is simply coffee with milk. That's it.

• 27:11Speaker 02

  Really?

• 27:12Josh Clark?

  That's literally what it means in French.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  Is that like the, what's it called in Spanish?

• 27:18Josh Clark?

  Café con leche.

• 27:19Speaker 02

  Okay, that's the same thing then?

• 27:21Josh Clark?

  Coffee with milk.

• 27:22Speaker 02

  Okay. I am a dummy. I haven't been drinking coffee that long.

• 27:26Josh Clark?

  It's not, it's not that. It's just, it's not that.

• 27:30Speaker 02

  As you can see, I'm still drinking my café latte from this morning.

• 27:35Josh Clark?

  Those are great, aren't they?

• 27:36Speaker 02

  And it's still hot, thanks to, and I'll go ahead and plug it, the Zoji Rushi. And I've plugged this on our page before.

• 27:44Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  Like, if you like your coffee hot all day, get one of these little thermoses. This thing keeps this thing hot for 10 hours.

• 27:51Josh Clark?

  It really does.

• 27:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:52Josh Clark?

  So much so, I have the same one. Yumi has the little pink one, it's cute. When I pour coffee in, I have to like pour the coffee into a mug to let it cool off.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  Right.

• 28:02Josh Clark?

  To put it in there.

• 28:02Speaker 02

  Cause you won't be able to drink it.

• 28:03Josh Clark?

  No, like maybe the next day you could. It keeps it that hot for sure.

• 28:08Speaker 02

  We need to get them as a sponsor, man.

• 28:09Josh Clark?

  They also make out of this world rice cookers too.

• 28:13Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, I've got one though. I'm not sure if that's the one I have or another one.

• 28:19Josh Clark?

  Tiger, those are the two best ones, in my opinion.

• 28:22Speaker 02

  I can't remember. I'll have to look. But all I know is the one I have is very forgiving.

• 28:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 28:26Speaker 02

  You can be pretty off with your measurements and it still makes perfect rice.

• 28:29Josh Clark?

  You can use like buttermilk and somehow it still comes out just great.

• 28:33Speaker 02

  Oh man, buttermilk?

• 28:34Josh Clark?

  Buttermilk rice? That could be alright.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 28:38Josh Clark?

  Well, here's a little tip for you. You make sushi rice?

• 28:42Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:42Josh Clark?

  Okay. Um, usually you just do a one to one rice to water ratio.

• 28:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:48Josh Clark?

  Then go in and just put like half, like a teaspoon, half teaspoon even, depending on how tangy you want to be of rice vinegar.

• 28:56Speaker 02

  Oh, well, sure. I usually add that after.

• 28:59Josh Clark?

  No, no, you want to put it in.

• 29:01Speaker 02

  So you want to cook it with it?

• 29:02Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 29:03Speaker 02

  Okay. I used to make my own sushi rolls and then I just got to the point where I was like.

• 29:07Josh Clark?

  It's not worth it?

• 29:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's just a lot easier to get sushi.

• 29:09Josh Clark?

  Where did you get your, uh, your seafood?

• 29:11Speaker 02

  Uh.

• 29:12Josh Clark?

  Your sashimi, sorry.

• 29:13Speaker 02

  I would get that at, um, the DeKalb Farmer's Market.

• 29:17Josh Clark?

  Hmm.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  I would get the tuna there and the crab sticks, which that's easy. You can get that at Kroger's.

• 29:23Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 29:24Speaker 02

  Uh, and the seaweed there. But then there's also a Japanese market nearby where I would get the eel.

• 29:28Josh Clark?

  Nice.

• 29:29Speaker 02

  To bake in the oven.

• 29:30Josh Clark?

  Nice.

• 29:31Speaker 02

  But that's kind of as, you know, you could do spicy tuna, tuna.

• 29:34Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 29:34Speaker 02

  Eel and crab stick.

• 29:36Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 29:36Speaker 02

  California rolls.

• 29:38Josh Clark?

  I really want some sushi right now.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  I, I mean, we both eat a lot of sushi.

• 29:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 29:42Speaker 02

  It's good.

• 29:42Josh Clark?

  Okay, so cafe au lait birthmarks.

• 29:45Speaker 02

  So that is the cafe au lait. They are the color of a cafe au lait.

• 29:50Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:50Speaker 02

  Kind of a light brown.

• 29:51Josh Clark?

  Which means coffee with milk.

• 29:52Speaker 02

  Yep. There, and this is to me was, when I think birthmark, I think of these, cause it's just a little brown spot, anywhere on the body.

• 30:01Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and it that's I think one of the things we didn't say is with some of the birthmarks, there is kind of specific places that they'll appear.

• 30:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:10Josh Clark?

  Um, or they're tied to specific places usually, but with cafe au lae birthmarks in particular, they're just, they got no rules.

• 30:18Speaker 02

  Forehead, butt cheek.

• 30:20Josh Clark?

  Wherever.

• 30:20Speaker 02

  Wherever.

• 30:22Josh Clark?

  And they apparently don't, there's nothing, there's no problem with them, but very much like the, um, the port wine stain birthmark, the cafe au lae spots are tied to a neurologic, actually a nerve condition, where if you have six or more of these kinds of cafe au lae birthmarks, um, especially if they're larger than like a dime in a, in an older kid, uh, you want to go to see a doctor.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:54Josh Clark?

  Because that could mean that you have something called neurofibromatosis. I said that a million times in my head, too.

• 31:03Speaker 02

  You gotta start saying things out loud.

• 31:04Josh Clark?

  Also known as NF1.

• 31:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's easier.

• 31:08Josh Clark?

  But, um, NF1 is not even necessarily, it could, it could be asymptomatic, like if you, if you're like, oh, my gosh, I've got six or more cafe au lae birthmarks on me, maybe I have neurofibromatosis. Um, that, that's, it's not like a death sentence or anything like that. It's just go see a doctor.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  Right. Uh, the Mongolian spots are, these look like bruises to me. Uh, they can, if you don't know what you're looking at, it can be alarming because you see these pictures of babies that look like they're heavily bruised, kind of at the lower back, upper buttocks area.

• 31:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 31:42Speaker 02

  Uh, but it is not bruising. Uh, they're bluish gray, though, and like I said, usually on the lower back, I think, um, African Americans, African, Asian and Hispanic, uh, kids, usually with darker skin have more of, more of them, or more, more commonly have them. And these are the ones that fade out, uh, by the time they're like, you know, six or seven usually.

• 32:05Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And they're usually a bluish green because they're clusters of pigment cells together, deep under the skin. And so you've got that same thing going on with, like you have with the, um,

• 32:19Josh Clark?

  Hemangiomas.

• 32:21Speaker 02

  Nice.

• 32:22Josh Clark?

  I got it.

• 32:22Speaker 02

  You got it. Uh, there's a good old fashioned mole. Uh, this is a pigmented birthmark. Um, multiple of them are, uh, Nevii, brown Nevii, N-E-V-I, because a Nevis is a single mole.

• 32:35Josh Clark?

  Are any of these, like, band names?

• 32:38Speaker 02

  I don't think so, but very fortuitous mentioning of that because of listener mail later.

• 32:42Josh Clark?

  Alright.

• 32:43Speaker 02

  Uh, it is Latin for spot, and there are three categories.

• 32:45Josh Clark?

  Mole is?

• 32:46Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 32:46Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  Uh, no, Nevii.

• 32:49Josh Clark?

  I think mole is Latin for spot.

• 32:51Speaker 02

  Oh, is it? Oh, yeah.

• 32:52Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 32:53Speaker 02

  Wow. I was just about to make fun of you, too. I'm glad I didn't.

• 32:57Josh Clark?

  I'm glad you didn't.

• 32:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, mole sounds real Latin.

• 33:01Speaker 02

  Wart boy.

• 33:02Josh Clark?

  Oh.

• 33:03Speaker 02

  So, there are three categories of moles: congenital, acquired, and atypical.

• 33:08Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:08Speaker 02

  Uh, the congenital, about 1% of babies are born with these. Uh, and these are kind of all over the map as far as color and size. Some of them are hairy, some of them are not hairy.

• 33:19Josh Clark?

  I saw that basically every congenital mole, uh, has

• 33:23Speaker 02

  A little hair?

• 33:24Josh Clark?

  A hair of some sort.

• 33:25Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 33:26Josh Clark?

  It can be very, very fine. It can be thick. It can be coarse. It can be very dark.

• 33:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:29Josh Clark?

  Um, usually they're very dark because they're growing out of pigment cells that are like,

• 33:33Speaker 02

  Just pigment away! That's right.

• 33:35Josh Clark?

  Um, and I learned that on the Dollar Shave Club blog.

• 33:38Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 33:39Josh Clark?

  Um, and they say also to just kind of pluck, because shaving, if you're a man, like, say you have one on your face or whatever, it can nick very, very frequently.

• 33:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I've got some of those skin tags that obviously I don't shave, so it's not a problem now, but...

• 33:53Josh Clark?

  Well, maybe that's why you have skin tags. If you shaved, you'd just shave them off all the time. Trim them down.

• 33:59Speaker 02

  I don't think that's why.

• 34:00Josh Clark?

  No?

• 34:01Speaker 02

  No, the skin tags come from, like, clothing, uh, rubbing against the skin. That's why they're around the neckline a lot of times. Uh, or sometimes around the waistline.

• 34:10Josh Clark?

  Hmm.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  So you know, but again, those aren't birthmarks.

• 34:14Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 34:15Speaker 02

  Those are old man marks.

• 34:16Josh Clark?

  I got you.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  Acquired moles, they come around later in life as well. And this is not the same as a skin tag still. It is still a mole and a lot of doctors think that this is from sun damage.

• 34:31Josh Clark?

  Yes, but not necessarily cancerous.

• 34:35Speaker 02

  Right.

• 34:36Josh Clark?

  Which leads us into the third type of mole, atypical moles. These aren't necessarily cancerous either, but they're the kind you definitely want to keep an eye on. They're, um, there'll be multiple colors or have some sort of color gradient in them. Their shape will be, um, just kind of amorphous.

• 34:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, irregular.

• 34:55Josh Clark?

  Yeah, uh, they'll be, um, just kind of, you'll be like, that don't look quite right. That's that kind of mole. And those are the kind that you definitely want to have a doctor check out. Um, because a lot of people don't know this, but, um, uh, an atypical mole is associated with melanoma. And melanoma is no joke.

• 35:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:16Josh Clark?

  I think a lot of people are like, melanoma's nothing, you just go, you know, get it removed at the doctor. No, melanoma can spread like lightning through your body and it, it can be a real problem. It's a very serious thing to, to keep up with.

• 35:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've got a pretty sad situation with a family member with melanoma.

• 35:33Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 35:34Speaker 02

  That, um, the treatment is going really well, but it is, uh, it has definitely opened my eyes to the fact that it's no joke.

• 35:40Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I had no idea, um, Yumi opened my eyes, she had somebody that she lost, uh, to melanoma.

• 35:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, man, it happens.

• 35:46Josh Clark?

  She thought the same thing, like, oh, melanoma, and then nope, that's not at all how it is. Which is really weird because somebody's dropping the ball.

• 35:52Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:53Josh Clark?

  Because most people just think it's nothing.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, on messaging.

• 35:56Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 35:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:57Josh Clark?

  I agree with myself, apparently.

• 35:59Speaker 02

  It's interesting that different kinds of cancer have better or worse PR.

• 36:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah, great product, terrible marketing, right?

• 36:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:07Josh Clark?

  It's kind of what we're dealing with here.

• 36:09Speaker 02

  But I know that, um, Prostate cancer is often lagged behind breast cancer. Like, breast cancer does a bang-up job of marketing and press and PR and awareness. So, these, like you said, the doctors will want to monitor these over time. What I couldn't figure out was, what is the quote-unquote "beauty mark"? Is that an acquired mole?

• 36:35Josh Clark?

  I think a beauty mark is any kind of mole.

• 36:38Speaker 02

  This just happens to be in that perfect place?

• 36:40Josh Clark?

  I'm living with this and I'm loving every minute of it.

• 36:43Speaker 02

  It's so interesting how that has become a thing.

• 36:47Josh Clark?

  I was trying to figure out where it went back to.

• 36:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:50Josh Clark?

  Obviously Marilyn Monroe, like, really kind of popularized that.

• 36:53Speaker 02

  Right. She had one, didn't she?

• 36:54Josh Clark?

  I think it predated her. Like, Liz Taylor is at least contemporary, if not predating.

• 36:58Speaker 02

  Did she have one?

• 36:59Josh Clark?

  Yeah. She's very famous for one. And then, like, even still today, Cindy Crawford, Scar Joe.

• 37:04Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 37:05Josh Clark?

  Who else? Oh, Natalie Portman apparently has them, like, on her face.

• 37:09Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 37:10Josh Clark?

  I went over this list of celebrities. I was like, celebrity birthmarks. The only one that comes up, though, is moles.

• 37:16Speaker 02

  And Spiro Agnew.

• 37:17Josh Clark?

  Could not, I couldn't find any, like, well-known celebrities with birthmarks.

• 37:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 37:24Josh Clark?

  Like, birthmarks, birthmarks. Like, facial birthmarks.

• 37:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:27Josh Clark?

  You just, I couldn't think of one either. I couldn't find any.

• 37:30Speaker 02

  Well, that's probably because of the prejudice against them.

• 37:33Josh Clark?

  I would guess so, yeah. Which is sad.

• 37:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:37Josh Clark?

  It reminded me, though, Chuck, didn't one of the Fat Albert gang have a birthmark on his face?

• 37:44Speaker 02

  I don't know. Was he the guy that had the, pulled his toboggan cap over his face?

• 37:50Josh Clark?

  No, I think that was Mush Mouth.

• 37:51Speaker 02

  Because you never see his face at all.

• 37:53Josh Clark?

  Well, then, how would you know if he had a birthmark?

• 37:55Speaker 02

  I don't know. I just thought that might have been a, like, backstory or something.

• 37:59Josh Clark?

  I think this just went off the rails enough for a message break, don't you?

• 38:04Speaker 02

  Sure. Yeah, we'll be back right after this and we'll talk about treatment and what I think is a pretty interesting thing, superstitions throughout history about birthmarks.

• 38:15Josh Clark?

  Agreed.

• 38:28Josh Clark?

  Everyone has a story to tell. What's yours? The moment you met your partner, landed that promotion? For people living with a rare disease, life can feel divided into before the diagnosis and all the after moments that follow. On Voices of Vivgard, Vivgard is also known as its generic name, Fgart Tigamod Alpha F Cab. You'll hear powerful stories from people facing challenges and embracing a life with a rare disease.

• 38:51Speaker 02

  Join host Andra Stratten as she guides listeners through honest conversations about life after diagnosis. You'll hear how each guest worked with her care team on their treatment plan, as well as their personal challenges, setbacks, progress, and moments of connection.

• 39:04Josh Clark?

  These stories reveal that life is bigger than a moment, a condition, or a tough day. Listen to Voices of Vivgard on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 39:21Josh Clark?

  World Mental Health Day takes place in October, and it's really meant to be more than just awareness. It's about actually taking the next step and getting support if you need it.

• 39:30Speaker 02

  But a lot of people still talk themselves out of therapy. They think it's too expensive. They're not sure if it'll actually work. They don't know how to find the right therapist, or they just get overwhelmed trying to navigate the whole system.

• 39:40Josh Clark?

  And that's exactly what Rula is built to fix. Rula makes therapy feel a lot more approachable, a lot more human. You can find a therapist who actually fits your needs, not just whoever's available. And with insurance, sessions average around $15 copay.

• 39:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can sign up in just a few minutes. You can get matched with the right provider and even book something as soon as the next day.

• 39:59Josh Clark?

  And it's not just about starting. Rula helps you stay consistent and actually make progress because taking care of your mental health isn't a one-time thing. So if you've been thinking about therapy, don't talk yourself out of it. This is a really easy way to take that first step.

• 40:12Speaker 02

  So turn off the talk track that's keeping you from progress and head to rula.com, that is R-U-L-A dot com, to find a therapist the easy way.

• 40:24Speaker 02

  Do you ever feel like your computer is tracking you? Well, it's not. It's your browser following you. But not if you come back to Firefox. Firefox blocks the trackers automatically, doesn't follow you from site to site, and supports the ad blockers.

• 40:39Speaker 04

  Other browsers dropped. Plus, you can switch AI on or off when its intelligence is acting too artificial. And switching, totally painless. Your bookmarks, passwords, and browsing history come right with you. Come back to Firefox. Visit Firefox.com.

• 41:04Speaker 02

  All right. So like we said about most of these birthmarks, usually medical treatment is not necessary, but some are monitored over time.

• 41:12Josh Clark?

  Mm hmm.

• 41:13Speaker 02

  And what doctors will do, obviously, is examine them, take some pictures, and then just sort of follow that over time, that same routine to see if they're changing and to see if they're getting bigger or changing shape or anything unusual.

• 41:29Josh Clark?

  That's a wait and see.

• 41:30Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly.

• 41:32Josh Clark?

  If you have hemangiomas, they will frequently use, like a port wine stain is something that a lot of people go seek treatment for because it's often on the face, the neck, the head.

• 41:42Speaker 02

  Right.

• 41:43Josh Clark?

  And it actually responds pretty well to a laser treatment, something called a pulsed dye laser.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  Is this like the same tattoo treatment or no?

• 41:53Josh Clark?

  Probably.

• 41:54Speaker 02

  Because that's pretty painful, right?

• 41:55Josh Clark?

  Oh, yes.

• 41:56Speaker 02

  Like, I can't imagine, because it says children, a lot of times, can be treated with this laser treatment, but man.

• 42:02Josh Clark?

  I know, it's sad. It feels a lot like having, like, hot bacon grease splashing on your skin. That's what if getting a laser or tattoo removed with a laser.

• 42:13Speaker 02

  But without the knowledge that, like, in a couple of minutes, I'm going to be eating some sweet bacon.

• 42:17Josh Clark?

  More like, the only silver lining to it is that a pig didn't die for you to be in that situation, you know what I mean?

• 42:25Speaker 02

  Right. Or I won't have whatever tattoo I obviously don't want on my body anymore.

• 42:32Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 42:32Speaker 02

  That's the reward there.

• 42:33Josh Clark?

  Right. So if that is the case, then if it is the same feeling as that, then yeah, I feel bad for little kids who get that. But that's the best time to start this treatment is when the child is young. Because again, what you're doing is you're using a pulsed dye laser, which uses a certain frequency or spectrum wavelength of light. That is targeted so that that birthmark will absorb that light. The surrounding skin is a different pigment, so it won't absorb that light like the birthmark will. And that energy, that light energy is translated into heat energy in the birthmark. And there go the cells or the blood vessels that make up the cells. And after enough treatments, you've hopefully broken up the hemangioma or the port wine stain.

• 43:19Josh Clark?

  And like the birthmark will go away.

• 43:24Speaker 02

  Did you hear that?

• 43:25Josh Clark?

  Did you hear that?

• 43:26Speaker 02

  That was me.

• 43:27Josh Clark?

  I think the, no, it was me.

• 43:28Speaker 02

  No, that was mine.

• 43:29Josh Clark?

  Well, then we just had a simultaneous stomach growl because my stomach just growled at the same time.

• 43:34Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 43:34Josh Clark?

  Are we like synced up after, after 12 years of podcasting together?

• 43:40Speaker 02

  So if you are getting something removed, it's usually a vascular birthmark. Generally, they don't try and get rid of pigmented birthmarks. Although it's possible, I think, but usually doctors don't treat that.

• 43:51Josh Clark?

  No, but if you, if you have a child with, say, a cafe au lait birthmark on their, on their face, the doctor's not going to be like, no, we're not doing that. They'll, they'll probably try to, to work it out. But the, the results are not nearly as reliable as with vascular birthmarks, which have to do with blood vessels beneath the skin clustered together.

• 44:12Speaker 02

  Right.

• 44:12Josh Clark?

  Overdeveloped, that kind of thing.

• 44:14Speaker 02

  Or what your doctor might say is, you know what? This thing's on your forehead. Grow your bangs out until you get old enough to where you accept this as like an individual trait that you're proud of.

• 44:27Josh Clark?

  There's a, there's something called the British Association of Skin Camouflage that is dedicated to helping people, actually training makeup artists on how to cover birthmarks. Because for some people, they'll just never get used to it. They don't want to have to get used to it. They just rather cover it up. And that's their right. That's their prerogative. It's their birthmark. They can do whatever they want with it. And so the average makeup artist doesn't know how to do that. It actually takes special skills, apparently. And so there's groups who train people.

• 44:59Speaker 02

  Oh, interesting.

• 45:00Josh Clark?

  To do that, yeah.

• 45:01Speaker 02

  We should do, I don't, I don't know if it's a short stuff or full length, but we should do something on vitiligo.

• 45:06Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 45:07Speaker 02

  I had a friend in LA who, who had vitiligo. And again, like the same with some of this stuff. It's such a forward facing thing if it's on your face. And it's a big deal to people. It's an important.

• 45:23Speaker 02

  It's an important issue because like the bullying like we were talking about are just kids and adults remaining self-conscious about that kind of thing.

• 45:30Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 45:30Speaker 02

  It's sad.

• 45:32Josh Clark?

  It is sad, agreed. I think we could all do a lot better at accepting people with facial differences is what it's called.

• 45:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. We picked something on facial differences.

• 45:40Josh Clark?

  I don't remember what it was, but I know I've mentioned this group before, changingfaces.org.

• 45:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's awesome.

• 45:45Josh Clark?

  They're just, their, their whole thing is like, hey, actually, it's funny, they, they promote skin camouflage if you want it, but they're also, their big push is like, hey, rest of society, like, there's nothing different about these people except for their face. Like, they're not cognitively challenged, they're not, they're not disabled in any way or differently able, like, their face is different.

• 46:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:09Josh Clark?

  For any number of reasons, and it's really kind of on the rest of you to get over it.

• 46:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:14Josh Clark?

  You know, which I think is the, the healthiest approach, if you ask me.

• 46:18Speaker 02

  So, the superstitions we were talking about, I know we mentioned a couple early on, like that you were touched by the devil, like, that was real stuff.

• 46:28Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 46:28Speaker 02

  In some cultures. In China, there were some quirky ones, like if you have a right foot birthmark, means you're adventurous. If it's on the left foot, it means you're really smart. If it's on your tum tums, that means you're greedy. And this is just sort of, you know, culture and folklore.

• 46:47Josh Clark?

  Sure. And the world around, so, because we can't explain what birthmarks or where they come from, all over the world, people, societies have said.

• 46:56Speaker 02

  Oh, sure.

• 46:57Josh Clark?

  It's something the mom did while she was pregnant.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 47:00Josh Clark?

  And so, we came up with all sorts of dipstick ideas for exactly what the mom did wrong to explain birthmarks.

• 47:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:07Josh Clark?

  One of my favorites is that the mom was startled and touched her face.

• 47:11Speaker 02

  Oh, so the baby.

• 47:12Josh Clark?

  And at the exact same moment, the baby's blood vessels at that point in the baby's face formed a birthmark.

• 47:20Speaker 02

  It's very scientific.

• 47:21Josh Clark?

  It is.

• 47:22Speaker 02

  Or how about this, if you have a strawberry mark as a baby, it's because mom ate too many red things.

• 47:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Can't lay off the strawberries.

• 47:29Speaker 02

  Or port wine stain, they couldn't lay off the wine.

• 47:32Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 47:33Speaker 02

  Or coffee.

• 47:33Josh Clark?

  Cafe au lait, coffee.

• 47:35Speaker 02

  That's so on the nose, like, come on, people.

• 47:37Josh Clark?

  It is. There's this thing called the doctrine of signs, where like, if a food looked like. A body part. It was associated with helping to heal that body part, like beets are good for the, for the blood or something like that.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  Or avocados are good for the testicles.

• 47:55Josh Clark?

  Exactly. I was hoping you would bring that up.

• 47:59Speaker 02

  Uh, let me see, what else? Um, in Japan, if, um, a, a pregnant woman looked at a fire or into a flame of some kind, they thought that might cause a burn mark on the baby's skin.

• 48:11Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  And I think some of these carry forward a little bit even today.

• 48:14Josh Clark?

  Yeah, well, the x-ray one is obviously fairly modern.

• 48:17Speaker 02

  Oh, sure.

• 48:18Josh Clark?

  Like, the, the explanation is that the mom got an x-ray while she was pregnant and it, it basically left a mark on the baby.

• 48:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:26Josh Clark?

  That is not true.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  That is not true.

• 48:28Josh Clark?

  No. Um, the one that really has always stuck out to me, and it reminded me of this case I want to tell you about, um, is this idea that a birthmark is actually a mark left over from a past life.

• 48:39Speaker 02

  This is pretty neat. Like, if you have a birthmark that looks like a bullet hole in your back, that means you were shot in the back in a past life.

• 48:46Josh Clark?

  And not just like, that's what that means. Like, there are, there are, I really hesitate to use this word, there are documented cases of this, of this happening. Supposedly, there is this kid in Syria, um, who was born with like a, kind of like a slash-like birthmark, I think on the back of his head. And apparently, from a very early age, when the kid like was able to start to talk, started recounting being murdered with an axe.

• 49:15Speaker 02

  Oh, interesting.

• 49:16Josh Clark?

  And then started talking about the village where he used to live and who, what his name was.

• 49:21Speaker 02

  And?

• 49:21Josh Clark?

  And then the guy that killed him. And it was enough, allegedly, that the village elders where this kid lived were like, we need to go check this out. So they traveled to that other village. And they said, does so-and-so live here? And they're like, yeah, he lives over there. And it's like, well, did, did somebody else named this live here once? They're like, yes, he died, he vanished mysteriously.

• 49:42Speaker 02

  Along with my axe.

• 49:44Josh Clark?

  They went and talked to the accuser, and, um, he broke down and confessed and showed them where they buried the body that this kid supposedly was in the past life.

• 49:52Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 49:53Josh Clark?

  Who was murdered by an axe. There's just no way that that happened, but I love reading about stuff like that. The, the part of me that's like, uh, that's subscribed to that time life books of like paranormal phenomena.

• 50:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:05Josh Clark?

  Still loves stories like that.

• 50:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, uh, I think. You lost me when you said village elders.

• 50:12Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah?

• 50:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, cuz, you know.

• 50:15Josh Clark?

  They're the same ones that are like, "Well, you're a witch too because of that," right?

• 50:18Speaker 02

  Exactly. See if she floats.

• 50:20Josh Clark?

  Right. So, what else you got? Any others?

• 50:24Speaker 02

  Uh, let me see here. Well, we talked about the devil's mark. Supposedly, Ambeleyn was accused of witchcraftery?

• 50:32Josh Clark?

  Supposedly. I saw also that she most decidedly was not.

• 50:35Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 50:35Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I think that's the legend.

• 50:37Speaker 02

  All right.

• 50:40Speaker 02

  Possession by the devil?

• 50:42Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 50:42Speaker 02

  That could be another one.

• 50:43Josh Clark?

  And one thing that we did know was that it definitely did happen historically. From the 17th to the 19th centuries, if you were Russian nobility, you proved it by displaying your birthmark.

• 50:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess so.

• 50:57Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  What's the, what was the family? The Romanovs?

• 50:59Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Pretty interesting, which actually holds water because they think that some birthmarks may be congenital. It's entirely possible that a family line, especially one that kinda kept to themselves, you know what I mean?

• 51:12Speaker 02

  I know what you mean.

• 51:12Josh Clark?

  Could conceivably pass down something like a birthmark.

• 51:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, and so, unless you, do you have anything else?

• 51:20Josh Clark?

  No, I don't, Chuck. Take it away.

• 51:21Speaker 02

  I think we just should close by really like stressing to any kids listening and parents of children.

• 51:28Josh Clark?

  That vascular birthmarks have to do with blood vessels under the skin.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  No, just explain to your kids, if there's another kid in their class that has, you know, a pretty obvious birthmark, that they're just the same.

• 51:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 51:42Speaker 02

  And don't tease kids for that stuff. If you're a kid that's young and listening, we all look different. We all have different skin tones.

• 51:49Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 51:50Speaker 02

  Just, don't be a jerk.

• 51:52Josh Clark?

  No. I think that's really great advice.

• 51:54Speaker 02

  No, I think the golden rule, think about how you might feel if somebody was making fun of something about your body.

• 52:00Josh Clark?

  That's a good one, too.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:01Josh Clark?

  If you wanna know more about parenting, well, you could just listen to all of our other episodes. And since I said that, it's time for Listener Mail.

• 52:12Speaker 02

  This is from Ryan and Lucy, the aforementioned band name ref. They have been to our shows at the Bell House a couple of times, a few times. And, uh, let me see, where are they from here? Uh, "Road Trips Between New York and Providence." And then they've seen us at the Bell House. And they said, "We realize how much we get a kick out of the various band names, and we started to inventory them a few years ago. Since our wedding is next week, we realize that now's the perfect time to just go ahead and send you the list." I'm not sure why that has anything to do with anything. But Ryan and Lucy, congratulations.

• 52:46Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 52:47Speaker 02

  For what it's worth, Ryan's favorite is Worm Burden.

• 52:50Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 52:51Speaker 02

  From the Hook Worm.

• 52:52Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 52:52Speaker 02

  And Lucy's is Mouth Parts.

• 52:54Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 52:55Speaker 02

  That's from a lot of episodes.

• 52:56Josh Clark?

  A great one.

• 52:56Speaker 02

  But we'll just buzz through these really quickly, just for nostalgia's sake. And aspiring bands, jump in and take these.

• 53:04Josh Clark?

  And give us some money for them.

• 53:06Speaker 02

  There's some real gold in here.

• 53:07Josh Clark?

  Are we doing all those?

• 53:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:09Josh Clark?

  Oh, my God.

• 53:10Speaker 02

  That's all right. I'll go through them quickly. Fistful of Neurons, Worm Burden, Tub of Pulp. I know you want to comment on everyone, don't you? Just throw in what you think is really good.

• 53:21Josh Clark?

  I'm just gonna sit here like this.

• 53:22Speaker 02

  Threat Simulation Theory, Poor Fred Noonan, I remember that one.

• 53:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 53:27Speaker 02

  Sweet, Give Me the Teat. I don't remember that one. It was from Uncanny Valley, but I don't remember saying that was a band.

• 53:35Josh Clark?

  No, or even how it would relate to it.

• 53:38Speaker 02

  Uh, this is from Movie Crush, Sick Vandalism, that's a good one. Flesh on the Chunks, Hot Plastic Injection, Pyrocastic Flow, that's a good one. Flaming Death Bolts, Pintos.

• 53:50Josh Clark?

  That is a legendary one.

• 53:51Speaker 02

  Conceptual Walls, Framingham Cohort, Offspring Cohort, Omni Cohort, Third Generation Cohort, Offspring Spousal Cohort. I don't remember any of those.

• 54:01Josh Clark?

  All those were from that heart study.

• 54:03Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. Uh, oh, that's right. Cortical Homunculus, that's pretty good. Medieval Synthesis, Magic Bullet, and... I'm wanting to retract this next one, because apparently I said Herbal Douches was a good band name. I take that back.

• 54:18Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 54:18Speaker 02

  That's terrible. Slaughtered Narwhal.

• 54:22Speaker 02

  Peck Lube.

• 54:24Josh Clark?

  Great.

• 54:24Speaker 02

  Sex-linked, possessive, manhole incidents. That's a good one. Graphic spew. Gross. Nuclear bulge. Love it.

• 54:31Josh Clark?

  That is a good one.

• 54:32Speaker 02

  Local group. That's kinda dumb.

• 54:34Josh Clark?

  I don't know. I can see that's kinda like Scrantin-icity.

• 54:38Speaker 02

  Oh, sure.

• 54:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 54:39Speaker 02

  The Electric Death Commission. I'd love that one.

• 54:42Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 54:42Speaker 02

  Dr. Foss Bomb Drop.

• 54:44Josh Clark?

  What was that one?

• 54:46Speaker 02

  Michael Dillon.

• 54:48Josh Clark?

  Huh.

• 54:48Speaker 02

  I don't remember exactly what that referenced.

• 54:50Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 54:51Speaker 02

  Death Master File. Mouth Fart. The, of course, the classic Frozen Poop Knife.

• 54:57Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 54:57Speaker 02

  Sloth Moths. Radioactive Cats. That one's dumb. Static Crush. I like that one. Damage Night. Not bad. The Descriptivists. Eh, that's a little haughty, I think.

• 55:09Josh Clark?

  Sure. But I could be kinda like Mumford and Sunsy kinda music, right?

• 55:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 55:14Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Oh, gotcha.

• 55:15Speaker 02

  It sounds too much like Decemberists, I think. Who am I, love?

• 55:18Josh Clark?

  That is exactly right.

• 55:19Speaker 02

  Bathtub Gin.

• 55:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 55:21Speaker 02

  Wasted on Excitement. That's an album title, he says, but that's pretty good as a band.

• 55:25Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 55:25Speaker 02

  Mother Culture. Jungle X-Ray. Very recent. Wet Record. The album from Jungle X-Ray.

• 55:32Josh Clark?

  Right, right.

• 55:32Speaker 02

  Two Whale Bolt. From Corderoy, and then Going Postal, which he says is a lot of bands are called that.

• 55:38Josh Clark?

  Yeah. I think you looked that up even, didn't you?

• 55:40Speaker 02

  I think so. Those are good.

• 55:42Josh Clark?

  We always, always, anytime we talk about great band names from episodes, have to give a shout out, especially when Frozen Poop Knife comes up, to Diarrhea Planet.

• 55:51Speaker 02

  Well, he had that on the list. I think he didn't quite understand that that is a real band.

• 55:55Josh Clark?

  That is a real band that predates Frozen Poop Knife.

• 55:59Speaker 02

  I know. I'd like to think that they've been tweeted at over the years.

• 56:02Josh Clark?

  Oh, they've tweeted to us.

• 56:03Speaker 02

  Oh, that's right. They have, right?

• 56:04Josh Clark?

  They said, um, they said, "Hey, sorry, we're gonna stick with our band name." Thanks for thinking of us.

• 56:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:09Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 56:09Speaker 02

  In other words, shut up.

• 56:12Josh Clark?

  Maybe. I don't know. I think it depends on how you look at the world.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:16Josh Clark?

  Okay, so, uh, I think that's it, everybody. I don't remember what's going on anymore, but this is the end of the episode, so if you wanna get in touch with us, you can go on to stuffyoushouldknow.com if you want. Uh, you can also send us an email to [email protected].

• 56:35Speaker 03

  Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 56:51Josh Clark?

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• 57:21Speaker 05

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