Selects: Sammy Davis Jr: National Treasure

In this classic episode Josh and Chuck sit down and detail the complicated life of the late, great Sammy Davis Jr. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Josh Clark?

  Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota Ford ability, and it starts with a great deal on an off-road ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's longest lasting trucks, combining power for work, tech for adventures, and style in between. And they're built on a reputation for quality and reliability, which is why Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. So get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for more. Toyota, let's go places. When you're in do it yourself mode, the last thing you want to do is drop everything to pick up that one part or tool that you need. That's where My Lowe's Rewards and My Lowe's Pro Rewards come in. Place your order and Lowe's handles the rest.

• 0:49Josh Clark?

  Lowe's will make the run for you with free same day delivery. Members get more at Lowe's $25 minimum and loyalty membership required. Order eligible items by 2 p.m. Subject to weight and size restrictions and availability. Terms at Lowe's.com/shippingterms. Introducing Voices of VivGart. VivGart is also known as its generic name, Fgart Tigamod Alpha F Cab. And this new show features firsthand stories from people living with a rare disease. Hosted by Andrew Stratton, these perspectives highlight that life is more than a moment, a condition, or a tough day. Living with a rare disease can be challenging, but it does not define the Voices of VivGart. In these episodes, they share their stories, from diagnosis to working with their care team on their treatment plan.

• 1:34Josh Clark?

  Listen to Voices of VivGart on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, it's me, Josh, and for this week's S Y S K Select, I've chosen our February 2020 episode on Sammy Davis Jr. If I'm not mistaken, this is where I, you, and the rest of the world finds out that Chuck does a killer Sammy Davis Jr. impression, thus buoying the podcast for years to come. I don't think anything else is needed to be said about this one. Just enjoy.

• 2:09Speaker 00

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio.

• 2:19Josh Clark?

  Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles, Debbie, Chuck Bryant, and there's guest producer Dylan sitting in again, like a great guy.

• 2:28Speaker 02

  Like a cool cat baby.

• 2:31Josh Clark?

  I thought you were doing evil German doctor for a second, and then I figured it out.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  No, man.

• 2:37Josh Clark?

  Wait, I haven't said it yet, and this is stuff you should know. Okay. That was a good one. That no man was wonderful.

• 2:43Speaker 02

  I love how Sammy Davis Jr. Always said cat and baby. It was just, he was such a cool dude.

• 2:50Josh Clark?

  And, okay, do Sammy Davis Jr. Saying, "We have ways of making you talk."

• 2:56Speaker 02

  What sounds German about any of that?

• 2:58Josh Clark?

  I just do it, please. Please!

• 3:01Speaker 02

  "We have ways of making you talk, man."

• 3:04Josh Clark?

  That was pretty great. Pretty great.

• 3:07Speaker 02

  And that's a little soft shoe.

• 3:09Josh Clark?

  It's great stuff, Chuck.

• 3:10Speaker 02

  So, you know, Billy Crystal used to do Sammy Davis Jr. Way back in the 80s, when blackface was super cool to do. And not controversial.

• 3:23Josh Clark?

  Did he do blackface Sammy Davis Jr.?

• 3:25Speaker 02

  Yes, dude. He did blackface Sammy Davis Jr. Eight years ago at the Oscars.

• 3:31Josh Clark?

  What?

• 3:32Speaker 02

  Yes, you don't remember that?

• 3:33Josh Clark?

  No.

• 3:34Speaker 02

  He, it's the last time he hosted the Oscars, in 2012.

• 3:39Josh Clark?

  What?

• 3:39Speaker 02

  They did, you know, a remote intro thing where he was doing different things. And the last bit was him and blackface again, and people were like, and this is in, you know, 2012, so there was Twitter, and there was Facebook, and this social media. And people were like, "That wasn't cool in the 80s, and I can't believe he's doing that now."

• 4:00Josh Clark?

  For real.

• 4:01Speaker 02

  Sammy Davis Jr.'s daughter came out and said, "You know what? If there's one thing I know, is that my dad is looking down and laughing and smiling at Billy Crystal doing this." He was roasted pretty heavily for it, rightfully so. And he hasn't been around a lot, but he wasn't around a lot before then, you know.

• 4:19Josh Clark?

  Do you think like that did it? Like that was the demise?

• 4:22Speaker 02

  I don't think it helped.

• 4:23Josh Clark?

  I was, yeah, I haven't seen him in a while either. Man, how did somebody not step back and be like, "Okay, wait, we're about to do blackface."

• 4:32Speaker 02

  I know, like, how did no one on the production crew of the Oscars say, "Not a good idea"?

• 4:37Josh Clark?

  I don't know.

• 4:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, he did it.

• 4:41Josh Clark?

  So I came across something that I thought was pretty interesting. I saw a 1985 interview with David Letterman.

• 4:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I saw that too. So good.

• 4:49Josh Clark?

  And Sammy Davis Jr. says in this interview, he did blackface.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:54Josh Clark?

  He was a little kid. Apparently, his skin was lighter when he was a kid and they wanted him because he used to tour with his uncle and his dad, as we'll see.

• 5:05Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:06Josh Clark?

  And to get around labor laws, they would pass him off as a midget.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 5:13Josh Clark?

  And to do that.

• 5:13Speaker 02

  Their words.

• 5:14Josh Clark?

  Right, yes, thank you. They gave him a candy cigar and put him in blackface and told anyone who would listen that he was a little person.

• 5:24Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 5:24Josh Clark?

  Although, again, they didn't say little person.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  No, they didn't.

• 5:28Josh Clark?

  Boy, this is a really controversial episode right out of the gate.

• 5:31Speaker 02

  Well, there's a lot of sort of, I mean, he was a complicated guy who was, you know, his father was black, his mother was Puerto Rican.

• 5:39Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  He eventually would endorse two presidents, both Kennedy and Nixon. He served in the army. He was a Rat Packer. He was shunned by racists and also shunned sometimes within his own black community.

• 5:56Josh Clark?

  Yeah, like a little pinball getting bounced around.

• 5:59Speaker 02

  And Little is right. He was also a little guy who always, I think, had a complex about his height, about his looks. He had this weird sort of underbite jaw that would jut out to one side when he talked. Just a really fascinating guy that was super, super talented and had his little tiny fingers in a lot of pies from, you know, singing and dancing and performing live and in movies and on TV and. Uh, just really, really fascinating guy.

• 6:34Josh Clark?

  Yeah, when you look back at the Rat Pack, he was the one that brought the actual talent to the Rat Pack. Like Sinatra could sing, Dean Martin could sing.

• 6:42Speaker 02

  Everyone in the Rat Pack was talented.

• 6:44Josh Clark?

  Right, right, but he was multi-talented, like dancing, doing impressions.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:50Josh Clark?

  He, uh, he had like a little gunslinger routine for a while. Uh, yeah, I did, I saw it.

• 6:55Speaker 02

  He's amazing.

• 6:56Josh Clark?

  Um, I watched a PBS documentary for their series American Masters on him.

• 7:03Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:03Josh Clark?

  And it was like an hour, almost two hours long. And, um, it was really in-depth and really good, but they had some amazing footage of him just doing all sorts of different stuff. So I guess let me revise that. Yes, the Rat Pack was talented. Sammy Davis Jr. was, was more talented than all of them put together.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  Uh, oh, all right.

• 7:23Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  So he made, uh, did you see any of that documentary of the USO tour?

• 7:31Josh Clark?

  Uh, there were a few clips in there, yeah.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, so if you want to see a different, if you think Sammy Davis Jr. is, is just the Candyman, or Mr. Bojangles, babe.

• 7:43Josh Clark?

  Man, watching him do Mr. Bojangles and knowing how he felt about that song, it's very heartbreaking.

• 7:48Speaker 02

  It is. Um, but if you see this documentary, in 1972, he did a USO tour of Vietnam, where he performed at drug rehab camps and some other, you know, forward bases. Uh, if you look at this, man, this is like as swingin' 70s, kind of rock and roll as it gets. Really, really cool stuff. Uh, he was a, a bad A performer.

• 8:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 8:13Speaker 02

  Uh, he was at places, like some of them were kind of full-on productions where they were capable of pulling that off.

• 8:19Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 8:19Speaker 02

  Other times, there's this great footage of him where they could, had nothing but a microphone. And he's just like, alright, give me the mic and I will like, basically kind of do my own beatboxy rhythm section. And sing and dance and the soldiers are just loving it, man. They're eating it up.

• 8:37Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and this is 1972, I believe. And like, I mean, like his, like, he was a world famous star by then, but also he was an older dude. You know, like, he'd, he'd really had his heyday in the late 50s and throughout the 60s, and this is 72. And he's out there in Vietnam, belting out Motown hits and drumming on the mic stand. So, yeah. I didn't see all of it, but yeah, you can tell like it was.

• 9:02Speaker 02

  It's pretty cool.

• 9:03Josh Clark?

  Yeah, he's, he's even more of a talented performer than people realize because, you know, you do think of him as doing like standards and show tunes and stuff like that. And he did mostly do those things, but he was talented in all sorts of different ways.

• 9:16Speaker 02

  So, um, the Grabster helped us out with this one and he said that there were a few defining, sort of things about Sammy Davis Jr.'s life that inform who he was.

• 9:25Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 9:26Speaker 02

  Uh, one was that he, um, came from poverty. He performed, uh, with his, like you said, his uncle, which was not his real uncle, but his dad and his uncle Will Maston, uh, as the, uh, was it the Maston Trio?

• 9:41Josh Clark?

  The Will Maston Trio, right.

• 9:42Speaker 02

  And they came from nothing and he did not have any money. And he talked later in life about the thrill of leaving a waitress a hundred dollar tip and, uh, walking around with a thousand dollars in your pocket.

• 9:57Josh Clark?

  Yeah, later on in life.

• 9:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's like, that was a year's salary. And he was like, no one understands that unless you've been at the bottom.

• 10:04Josh Clark?

  Right. And he was definitely at the bottom and they, he and his father and his uncle Will worked their way up. You know, all through, they started all throughout the depression on the chitlin circuit, doing vaudeville. And he didn't go to school once because, this is really important to understand, he spent his entire life.

• 10:27Josh Clark?

  In show business and the earliest years constantly on the road with his uncle and his dad.

• 10:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, so that's the second point. Never went to school at all. Did not learn to read and write until he was in the army. And always apparently had trouble writing. And he always looked at it as he was always, you know, sort of ashamed of it. He was proud of who he became, but always was ashamed of his lack of formal schooling. And he called his, what he had was the facade of intelligence, which Ed rightfully points out is just bunk. Because there are many kinds of intelligence. He was a very intelligent guy.

• 11:06Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  He just didn't have formal schooling. But he was very self-conscious of this and about representing the black community. So like, have he ever mispronounced something because he didn't know? It would make him feel really bad because he thought that that represented black people as a whole. So that's number two. And the third thing is that early on, his family, his dad and his uncle really kind of shielded him from racial prejudice. He certainly encountered it on the Chitlin circuit, but he didn't really get the full deal until he went into the army. And it was a big shock to him.

• 11:42Josh Clark?

  Right. He, I think this kind of explains that he approached racism differently than some of his contemporaries, especially when he got to the army and was confronted with the full brunt of it.

• 11:58Josh Clark?

  And that that kind of informed how he viewed race and racial discrimination and the dynamic between the races in the United States in the middle of the last century. Because he hadn't really seen it firsthand or experienced it firsthand. He hadn't been in school and so other little white kids hadn't bullied him.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  Right.

• 12:17Josh Clark?

  Or he hadn't been around town. And just lived in a, in a set space where most kids were introduced to racism firsthand. He didn't get that until he was 18. And so by the time he was 18, he was like, this isn't right. What do you, what do you, who do you think you are?

• 12:34Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:34Josh Clark?

  And so when he got to the army and was confronted with it full on, he, um, he approached it differently. Uh, whereas other, some of his contemporaries in the army who were black, um, just kind of kept their head down and, you know, tried to go along and get along.

• 12:49Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:49Josh Clark?

  Uh, he would, he would fight back.

• 12:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:52Josh Clark?

  He would not, he would not back down. He would not step down. And he spent a lot of time in the army, physically fighting white racists who were trying to make things hard for him. And apparently at some point, he fought one, he fought one guy and won. He beat, beat up some white guy who had, um, done something racist to him. I'm not sure what it was. And then after the fight, the guy beaten said, you know, you may have beaten me, but you're still black. And apparently this got to Sammy Davis Jr. In such a way that it just transformed his approach. That he realized like, he could fight white boys his whole life.

• 13:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:30Josh Clark?

  And probably win some of the fights, probably get beat up a lot of the fights. He had his nose broken at least twice. Um, but that it wasn't going to get him anywhere. And so he decided then and there that what he could do is fight prejudice through his performing.

• 13:44Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:44Josh Clark?

  He would be such a good performer. He would transcend race at least while he was performing.

• 13:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:51Josh Clark?

  And he managed to do that, or as much as anybody ever has in, in the history, in modern history, at least in the United States.

• 13:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. So he's discharged in the army in 1945, goes right back to the Mastin Trio and touring with them. And he was sort of, even though he was just a little kid growing up in that, uh, trio, he was sort of the star still.

• 14:16Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Little Sammy.

• 14:17Speaker 02

  Little Sammy. Um, like little Stevie Wonder.

• 14:20Josh Clark?

  Yeah. He, he actually, Chuck, he won his first, um, contest at age three.

• 14:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:26Josh Clark?

  Uh, at like an amateur hour or amateur night. And he sang, "I'll be glad when you're dead, you rascal, you."

• 14:33Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:33Josh Clark?

  That's what he knocked the house down at age three. And that was the, the formal start to his, um, his show business.

• 14:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. He won 10 bucks.

• 14:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah, about 150 bucks today.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, which for him, I mean, that's a lot of dough.

• 14:45Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  For a very, very poor kid.

• 14:48Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 14:49Speaker 02

  So, he gets out of the Army, goes back to the Maston Trio. And this sort of corresponded with the same timeline as when Vegas started to become a big deal and a big entertainment center. And they played Vegas a little bit. And, you know, we should point out too, on the Chitlin' Circuit, they were never making much money.

• 15:09Josh Clark?

  No.

• 15:10Speaker 02

  It's a grueling thing, and they did get paid, but it's not like they were getting rich out there.

• 15:14Josh Clark?

  I mean, you'd have to be a vaudeville superstar to make a lot of money. And this was also during the Depression largely, too, so people didn't make money in general.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  Right, but doing three, four, or five shows a day on that circuit.

• 15:25Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 15:26Speaker 02

  But goes to Vegas, starts performing in Vegas, starts doing impressions, which he did throughout his career, was very good at them, and audiences ate it up. And then Frank Sinatra, the chairman of the board, as they say, gave him a call, or gave their people a call, and said, "Hey, I want this guy opening up for me in Vegas, this trio opening up." Took him under his wing.

• 15:51Josh Clark?

  That was a big deal.

• 15:52Speaker 02

  It was a very big deal. Said, you know, "You do these great impressions, you do me, it's hysterical, you're so talented, open for me in Vegas." And that was where he said, you know, "In Vegas for 20 minutes twice a night, our skin had no color." But the second they got finished, he said, "Other acts could go out and gamble and socialize, have a drink." He said, "We had to go through the kitchen with the garbage." And that's when it would all sort of hit home once again.

• 16:19Josh Clark?

  They had to stay in like an entirely different part of Vegas that, from the looks of it, almost didn't have electricity.

• 16:25Speaker 02

  It was still segregated.

• 16:26Josh Clark?

  It was all dusty roads, yeah. That's where they had to stay. They were beloved performers, but that's where they had to go stay after the show. And I saw that even after he was a member of the Rat Pack, a superstar, he had used the pool at the Sands. And guests in the 50s complained enough that the Sands agreed to drain the pool and refill it because Sammy Davis Jr. had been using the pool. And this is after he was a star already. That's how vile the segregation was, even in a place like Vegas.

• 16:59Speaker 03

  All right, let's take a break and we'll come back and talk more about The Candyman right after this.

• 17:20Speaker 03

  Hey, everybody. Cozy season is upon us, and that means crisp mornings, that means soft layers, and that means Bombas.

• 17:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah, Bombas makes your comfiest fall staples, so you can make the most out of one of the best seasons of the year. Bombas has new suede moccasins that are perfect for fall because they have cushy soles, a sheerling lining, and they're made of water-resistant suede.

• 17:41Speaker 03

  That's right, and their slippers are everything you'd want for a cozy night in, made with the softest, squishiest materials.

• 17:45Josh Clark?

  And of course, Bombas has socks. Not just any socks, socks for every type of weather, every type of occasion, because fall can be fickle, and Bombas makes socks that can handle it all. And the best part about Bombas, for every item you purchase, they donate an essential clothing item to someone facing housing insecurity. One purchased equals one donated, with over 200 million donations and counting.

• 18:08Speaker 03

  So head on over to Bombas.com/SYSK and use code SYSK at checkout for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash SYSK, using code SYSK at checkout.

• 18:24Speaker 04

  First thought is like, wow, how are we gonna do all this?

• 18:27Josh Clark?

  Hey, this is Josh and Chuck from Stuff You Should Know.

• 18:30Speaker 03

  That's Alan Goya, planning engineer at AT&T, and he's talking about Intuit Dome, home of the Los Angeles Clippers, where every seat, screen, phone, and transaction is connected with AT&T fiber and 5G, redefining the fan's experience. And Alan's master plan made it all possible.

• 18:46Speaker 04

  It was good arrival, anything that was already built. And that takes quite a bit of people and different teams to all be on the same page.

• 18:54Josh Clark?

  That includes field services manager Drexel Jones. His team made sure it all came together and held up on game day.

• 19:00Speaker 05

  Through what Alan's whole crew designed, we connected the event visitors to the world.

• 19:06Speaker 03

  And after years of hard work and collaboration, it was opening night.

• 19:09Speaker 05

  To actually see the whole stadium light up and data's flowing is a beautiful thing.

• 19:13Speaker 04

  What the fans' experience. It's incredible. It gave me a lot of pride.

• 19:17Josh Clark?

  AT&T, connecting fans to what they love.

• 19:20Speaker 06

  Connecting changes everything. AT&T.

• 19:27Speaker 02

  You know, you're never done decorating your home. You know what I mean?

• 19:29Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 19:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, because it's a process. There's always something you could do, or buy, or update. The only question is, what's next? For us, our animals just wear out our rugs so quickly. It's usually a new rug.

• 19:40Josh Clark?

  Well, Chuck, whether you need a rug, or whatever is next for you, you can go to Wayfair. It's the smart place to get it.

• 19:47Speaker 02

  That's right. Whatever your style, whatever your budget, whatever you're looking for, Wayfair makes it easy to find it. And you can feel good about your purchases, too, because Wayfair verified products go through a thorough 10-point quality inspection.

• 19:59Josh Clark?

  And with over 20 million 5-star reviews, Wayfair must be doing something right. You can find pieces made for real life and get even more value with Wayfair Rewards. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com.

• 20:19Speaker 07

  Wayfair, every style, every home.

• 20:34Speaker 02

  So Sammy Davis Jr. wrote a bunch of memoirs and autobiographies over the years. And one of them is a very great spinal tap joke.

• 20:43Speaker 02

  I know you still haven't seen it, right?

• 20:45Josh Clark?

  I saw it, but I've only seen it once, and it was a couple of years ago.

• 20:49Speaker 02

  Oh, OK. So one of his, I think his first one was called "Yes, I Can."

• 20:54Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 20:54Speaker 02

  And there's a great scene in Spinal Tap when Bruno Kirby, as a limo driver, is talking about it. And he said, he said something about "Yes, I can." He said, although the real title should have been, "Yes, I Can If Frank Says It's OK," because Frank called the shots for all those guys.

• 21:09Josh Clark?

  That's right. I remember that, too.

• 21:11Speaker 02

  It's a very funny joke.

• 21:12Josh Clark?

  Like, he just keeps going off about that, doesn't he?

• 21:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:15Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  It's good stuff. You know Billy Crystal and Bruno Kirby had a very famous falling out. And

• 21:21Josh Clark?

  No, why?

• 21:21Speaker 02

  Legend has it Billy Crystal sort of had him blackballed.

• 21:26Josh Clark?

  What is up with Billy Crystal? My impression of him is changing dramatically. He really sells it when the cameras are on, huh?

• 21:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, that's what you do, you know?

• 21:35Josh Clark?

  That's crazy, though, to be that. Wow. Wow.

• 21:40Speaker 02

  I mean, we know the game. People think you and I like each other.

• 21:44Josh Clark?

  Right. We got everybody fooled.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  It's amazing.

• 21:47Josh Clark?

  Like, what were their names, the Mythbusters?

• 21:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like, the day the cameras stopped rolling, they released press statements saying, "We never liked each other."

• 21:54Josh Clark?

  I know. Why would anybody do that? Even if you didn't like each other, why would you just let it go, you know?

• 22:02Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 22:03Josh Clark?

  But it's Jamie and, um...

• 22:05Speaker 02

  Adam.

• 22:06Josh Clark?

  Adam, that's right.

• 22:06Speaker 02

  Adam Savage. Adam's a great guy. I know him a little bit.

• 22:09Josh Clark?

  So... Are you implying Jamie's not?

• 22:11Speaker 02

  I don't know him any.

• 22:12Josh Clark?

  Oh, okay.

• 22:14Speaker 02

  I'm not siding.

• 22:15Josh Clark?

  This took a really weird turn, didn't it?

• 22:17Speaker 02

  It did. So, back to Sammy Davis Jr. He also started, his star started rising. Well, his star had already risen, but in the 70s, when The Variety Show came about, which was a big deal in the 70s and even into the 80s, Sammy Davis Jr. was perfect for that medium.

• 22:37Josh Clark?

  Well, this was, I think, even earlier than that, when TV really started to dominate. The earliest shows that they had were vaudeville shows that led to variety shows.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  He had his own variety show later in the 70s because he was so, it wasn't a huge hit, but...

• 22:51Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 22:52Speaker 02

  For someone who can dance and sing and do impressions and do comedy, and, for God's sakes, is a real-deal gunslinger...

• 22:59Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 23:00Speaker 02

  A variety show's pretty great.

• 23:01Josh Clark?

  It really was. So, he's, you know, he's getting onto TV. Their Vegas gigs have really put the Will Maston Trio on the map. And they were doing really well. They had reliable work, that kind of stuff. People knew who Sammy Davis Jr. was. He was already, you know, a protege of Frank Sinatra by this time. But it wasn't until 1951 that the big break came through. And it really came through in like a really kind of Hollywood story kind of way where, like, they were given this one shot in this one particular spot at just the right time, in front of just the right people, and they killed it. And that was it.

• 23:43Josh Clark?

  Sammy Davis Jr. was a star from that moment on.

• 23:47Speaker 02

  That's right. And that was at, um... Janice Page and a show at Ciro's, which is now the Comedy Store.

• 23:56Josh Clark?

  Right. Um, and- Oh, really? I didn't know that.

• 23:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. It became the Comedy Store after Ciro's. But was sort of a legendary place, you know, of its own, in its own right.

• 24:05Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:06Speaker 02

  But everyone, you know, apparently it's debatable whether or not it was an Oscar party, after-party or not. But regardless, there were a lot of Hollywood people there.

• 24:15Josh Clark?

  Including Bogie and his Rat Pack.

• 24:17Speaker 02

  Sure. The, the original Rat Pack.

• 24:20Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:21Speaker 02

  Which wasn't called the Rat Pack.

• 24:22Josh Clark?

  No, it was, actually.

• 24:23Speaker 02

  It was?

• 24:24Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 24:25Speaker 02

  Well, why did, oh, never mind. I'm not going down that rabbit hole.

• 24:29Josh Clark?

  What?

• 24:29Speaker 02

  That's all right.

• 24:30Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  So, he, uh, he kills it there. He's doing impressions of people that are in the audience. Everyone loves him. Uh, they sign with the William Morris Agency. And an overnight sensation, you know, twenty, thirty years in the making starts happening.

• 24:45Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and we should say, so Sammy Davis Jr. became known for his impressions. He, he was groundbreaking in the sense that he would do impressions of white people. And up to the time Sammy Davis Jr. started doing impressions of white people, if you were a black performer, you could do impressions of other black people, and that was it. It was just not okay for you to do white people. Sammy Davis Jr. just started doing white people, and the white people loved it. And at that show at Ciro's, he was doing impressions of some of the people in the crowd. Like, he did a killer Cary Grant. And Cary Grant was a member of Humphrey Bogart's Rat Pack. And he was probably there that night. Um, so there were a lot of people who were getting impressions done of them. They just loved it, killed. And, um, I think Janice Page said, "I was the headliner tonight.

• 25:29Josh Clark?

  I think these guys should be the headliner from now on."

• 25:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:32Josh Clark?

  Which was pretty cool of her to do that, you know?

• 25:35Speaker 02

  It's amazing.

• 25:35Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  So, he gets a record deal, uh, after that. He's putting out, like, show tunes, old standards.

• 25:42Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 25:42Speaker 02

  Uh, he does a pilot in the mid-fifties with his father and uncle about a trio of, uh, black entertainers that are kind of struggling called We Three.

• 25:51Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I would love to see that.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  Well, there's another pilot we'll talk about later that you definitely need to see.

• 25:56Josh Clark?

  I haven't checked it out yet, but I know, I know the one.

• 25:59Speaker 02

  It's pretty legendary.

• 26:01Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 26:01Speaker 02

  So, uh, a big thing happened that same year in nineteen fifty-four is Sammy Davis Jr. had a wreck in his Cadillac. And the Cadillac, and this is just- Horrific to think about. Cause I've seen these, you know, in the middle of the steering wheel, they had these little decorative cones that stuck out.

• 26:19Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 26:20Speaker 02

  His left eyeball hit that thing and he lost it and wore an eye patch for a while and then a glass eye.

• 26:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah, apparently he remembers coming out of the car with holding his eye in his hand. And then that's the last thing he remembers. The next thing he remembers after that was waking up in a hospital bed. And when he woke up and realized that he'd lost his eye for life, his eye was gone. He was really, really scared that his career was over.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:46Josh Clark?

  This is 1954. He'd just gotten his big break three years before and was on his way up. And now all of a sudden he loses his eye. And the thing about losing your eye, in addition to say, you know, having to sit for publicity photos and try to be a leading man in movies or on Broadway or that kind of thing. You have to relearn spatial awareness.

• 27:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:11Josh Clark?

  You're going from binocular vision to monocular vision and that has all sorts of weird tricky effects on you.

• 27:17Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 27:18Josh Clark?

  So if you're a dancer or a gunslinger or doing some old soft shoe or whatever you're doing.

• 27:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:24Josh Clark?

  You have to relearn how to move. And apparently, one of the things that Sinatra did that was really stand up for Sammy Davis Jr. Was he had him basically come convalesce at Sinatra's place.

• 27:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:37Josh Clark?

  And really guided him in, in saying like, you need to relearn how to move. You're gonna be fine, but you're, you're gonna have to, you're gonna have to start really attacking this. And you can't really sit around and feel bad for yourself. You need to, to get, you know, relearn movement now. Rather than, you know, spend a year feeling sad. And that was a huge help for him.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  It was. And he also was kind of, I don't think, I mean, maybe his life did kind of pass before him because he definitely had an awakening of. What have I done here with my life so far? What greater purpose have I served? And what can I do from this point forward? He, and put a pin in this, but this was the first exposure to Judaism in the hospital. He got a visit from a rabbi.

• 28:27Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  And just put a pin in that because that will come back again later.

• 28:31Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 28:31Speaker 02

  Is there a pin in it?

• 28:32Josh Clark?

  Well, look.

• 28:33Speaker 02

  All right.

• 28:34Josh Clark?

  I don't even know where this pin came from, do you?

• 28:36Speaker 02

  I don't. Well, you do have that pin cushion right there, but.

• 28:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah, this little tomato one with the strawberries dangling off of it. Do you remember those?

• 28:44Speaker 02

  Oh, man, do I.

• 28:45Josh Clark?

  Was there a 70s mom that didn't have one of those?

• 28:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, with a macrame owl hanging on the wall behind them.

• 28:50Josh Clark?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 28:51Speaker 02

  So here's where it gets really kind of great as far as knowing what a stand-up guy Sammy Davis Jr. was. His success is booming. And you would think Sammy Davis Jr., you can leave that Will Mastin Trio behind.

• 29:08Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  Because it's really all about you. He said, no, man. Shine us all up, babe. Three-way split.

• 29:16Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 29:17Speaker 02

  And that's what they did. They, he ensured contractually that they would get a three-way split that endured 10 years after he left as a solo performer. He was still giving them 33% each.

• 29:29Josh Clark?

  Yeah, for 15 years total, they got a third of the profits, each of them. And yeah, they, they were, you know, originally they were still doing their Vegas show as the Will Mastin Trio featuring Sammy Davis Jr. But then over time, you know, remember his uncle and his dad were a good 20 years older than him.

• 29:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:49Josh Clark?

  By this time, he's in his 30s. So, you know, they're starting to get, they're, they're losing their step a little bit. So they start to not be in the show quite as much.

• 29:58Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 29:58Josh Clark?

  Just stepping back. But even still, he made sure they were taken care of for another 15 years.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  That's great.

• 30:03Josh Clark?

  A third, a third. And this is a third during Sammy Davis Jr.'s peak earning years. So he got one-third of what he would have gotten had he just basically said, Dad, Uncle Will, thank you for teaching me everything I know. I'm going to move on now. Best of luck.

• 30:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:19Josh Clark?

  Let me know if you need a loan. Instead, he just took a third of what he could have gotten and gave the other two thirds to those two, which is for 15 years, Chuck.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:29Josh Clark?

  That's really amazing.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  It's pretty great.

• 30:30Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 30:31Speaker 02

  Uh, so that pen, it actually wasn't in there that long. We can go ahead and take the pen out.

• 30:35Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 30:35Speaker 02

  Because he, uh, after that first meeting with a rabbi, he reads more and more about Judaism. He draws a correlation between the plight of the Jewish people and the plight of black people. And it really spoke to him and he converted. And some people said, oh, this is a big publicity stunt. He's like, no, this is not a publicity stunt. He said, this is my new religion. And, uh, he, uh, very humorously started referring to himself as a one-eyed black Jew.

• 31:01Josh Clark?

  Sometimes a one-eyed black Puerto Rican Jew.

• 31:04Speaker 02

  Puerto Rican Jew, which was very sort of in keeping with his self-deprecating style.

• 31:09Josh Clark?

  For sure. He's like, um, Tim Watley. He converted for the jokes.

• 31:13Speaker 02

  Man, I remember that one. I've been plowing through Seinfeld again.

• 31:17Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 31:18Speaker 02

  I love, one of my favorite things that always gets me is when, uh, Jerry calls George Biff.

• 31:24Josh Clark?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  It never fails to make me laugh.

• 31:27Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 31:28Speaker 02

  Biff.

• 31:29Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  So good. Uh, should we, oh no, let's not take another break. Let's plow on here, right?

• 31:35Josh Clark?

  Yeah, sure.

• 31:36Speaker 02

  All right. So, dating-wise, he is dating, uh, black women and white women. When he dates, uh, white women, he gets, uh, racist threats from white people and he gets condemnation from the black community for betraying the black community by dating a white woman.

• 31:53Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  He can't win.

• 31:55Josh Clark?

  No, he really couldn't win. Apparently, from what I saw in that, um, that, uh, American Masters, uh, documentary, um, he really, really, really was in love with Kim Novak.

• 32:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:09Josh Clark?

  From what I saw, she may have been the love of his life. At the very least, he never got to explore whether she was or not, but, um, when he said that he intended to marry her, I guess it was in the 50s, um, he, uh, he, there was a contract put out on his life by the studio head at, I think, Columbia, where Kim Novak was an actress.

• 32:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, Harry Cone was the studio head and this was back when Vegas and Hollywood were, you know, there was some mob and mafia dealings going on, for sure. And Sammy had some mob friends too, just because he was friends with Frank and, you know, that was just sort of the thing. These guys would come to these Vegas clubs and he would meet them. He sought protection from a Chicago gangster that he was in with. The Chicago gangster was like, "I can't help you in California." He's like, "I'm no good there. I can protect you in Chicago. I can protect you in Vegas. Can't do anything about California. It's not my territory." And supposedly, and this is where it gets a little hazy, because some people say it happened, some people say it didn't. Supposedly, he was even kidnapped

• 33:12Speaker 02

  for a few hours to scare him. But who knows if that's really true?

• 33:18Josh Clark?

  Well, apparently, one of his friends who was there said, "No, it wasn't true. He was never kidnapped." But the contract basically said, there was a contract that said, "You have 48 hours to marry a black woman, or you die."

• 33:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:33Josh Clark?

  And whatever it was, whether there was an actual contract, whether it word just got to him that there was, it didn't matter to Sammy Davis Jr. at that minute, because he broke it off with Kim Novak, much to his own heart's break.

• 33:46Speaker 02

  Married a black woman.

• 33:49Josh Clark?

  Yeah, proposed to a woman named Loree White.

• 33:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:52Josh Clark?

  Who, she was a black singer, and I think they had dated years before. And I guess he never copped to the, to the idea that it was an arranged marriage, that it was basically a business proposal.

• 34:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:07Josh Clark?

  But that is definitely how it's portrayed by the people who were there at the time, who were his close friends, that he even paid her $10,000 to do this. And I'm sure it was very, you know, kind and congenial to it. But they described that day, his wedding day, to Loree White, as probably the worst day of his life, tied for first with the day that he lost his left eye.

• 34:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, and he, you know, we can't look over some of the ugly parts of that day. He got drunk and physically assaulted her in the car just after the wedding reception.

• 34:40Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 34:41Speaker 02

  Not making any excuses for the guy, but it was certainly not right to do that.

• 34:46Josh Clark?

  Right. So their marriage didn't last terribly long. I didn't see how long it lasted, did you?

• 34:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, a little over a year.

• 34:54Josh Clark?

  Okay, so about a year. And I guess he considered that the heat had gone down or whatever by that time. But I get the impression that the fact that Kim Novak had been taken from him... Strictly out of racism. Like Harry Cone, I'm sure was a racist, but he was also a businessman. And the reason that he was doing this was because he knew America was racist. This is at a time when there were laws that prevented black men and white women, or vice versa, to marry.

• 35:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, it wasn't legal yet.

• 35:25Josh Clark?

  No. So the idea of one of his biggest stars, Kim Novak, marrying a black man. He decided that he just couldn't take that risk business-wise, and so he threatened Sammy Davis Jr. Whatever the reason was, Sammy Davis Jr. really bristled under that. And so in 1960, this was a few years after the, he had to break it off with Kim Novak. He got married to a woman, a Swedish actress named Mai Britt. And he had children with her and was married to her, but he also ran around on her almost constantly, from what I understand. And you get the impression that Mai was in part a, I'll just put it as PG as possible,

• 36:10Josh Clark?

  thumbing his nose at all of the racists out there who took Kim Novak from him. He was saying, I think, as somebody put it, "I'm big enough now that you can't tell me who to marry, and I'm gonna marry this beautiful six-foot white woman."

• 36:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, who looks like Margot Robbie, sort of.

• 36:27Josh Clark?

  She does. Yeah, she does a little bit. I hadn't put my finger on it. And their children were incredibly beautiful, thanks largely to their mom, too. But they were, they had three kids together, and they were married for eight years. And I think it's very sad because Mai Britt immediately lost her career.

• 36:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:45Josh Clark?

  So she gave up her career to be with Sammy Davis Jr. I don't know, she must have fallen in love with them, because she had three kids with them, too. But she gave up a lot, and he gave up nothing. And I think that it was very unfair on his part. To ask for what he asked for from her and give so little in return.

• 37:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, and what was also not fair and sort of a black eye on John F. Kennedy was that Sammy Davis Jr. had been scheduled to perform at the 1960 inauguration.

• 37:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 37:21Speaker 02

  And he disinvited him because of his marriage to a white woman.

• 37:25Josh Clark?

  Kennedy personally had him disinvited. This wasn't like Kennedy's advisors or anything like that.

• 37:31Speaker 02

  Nope, it was him and he said, you know, apparently people said he, you know, it was a political move because he didn't want to alienate Southern Democrats, but either way, that was a big fracturing of the relationship between JFK and Sammy Davis Jr. He never got over that.

• 37:49Josh Clark?

  No, he never did. And it was also a moment where Sinatra, who had stood up for Sammy Davis Jr. multiple countless times against racists, against studio heads, against the record company executives, against all sorts of people, didn't. He did not stand up and argue and try to persuade JFK to change his mind. He just quietly went along with it. And I think that broke Sammy Davis Jr.'s heart as much as JFK betraying him and probably even more because he expected more from Frank than he did from Kennedy. And the other thing about Kennedy rescinding that invitation, Harry Belafonte's invitation wasn't rescinded

• 38:31Josh Clark?

  and Harry Belafonte was married to a white woman and was there with his white wife at this inauguration party. So Sammy Davis Jr. couldn't help but take it personally and he really did.

• 38:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:43Josh Clark?

  It was a big, it was a big deal, a big moment in his life and a very sad moment. And a lot of people think that it led to him later on embracing, probably ill-advisedly, the Nixon campaign in the early 70s.

• 38:57Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 38:58Josh Clark?

  You want to take a break?

• 38:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's take a break and we'll talk a little bit about his work in the civil rights movement right after this.

• 39:18Josh Clark?

  Everyone has a story to tell. What's yours? The moment you met your partner, landed that promotion? For people living with a rare disease, life can feel divided into before the diagnosis and all the after moments that follow. On Voices of VivGart, VivGart is also known as its generic name, Fgartigimod Alpha F-Cab. You'll hear powerful stories from people facing challenges and embracing a life with a rare disease.

• 39:41Speaker 03

  Join host Andra Stratten as she guides listeners through honest conversations about life after diagnosis. You'll hear how each guest worked with her care team on their treatment plan, as well as their personal challenges, setbacks, progress, and moments of connection.

• 39:54Josh Clark?

  These stories reveal that life is bigger than a moment, a condition, or a tough day. Listen to Voices of VivGart on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 40:10Josh Clark?

  World Mental Health Day takes place in October, and it's really meant to be more than just awareness. It's about actually taking the next step and getting support if you need it.

• 40:19Speaker 03

  But a lot of people still talk themselves out of therapy. They think it's too expensive. They're not sure if it'll actually work. They don't know how to find the right therapist, or they just get overwhelmed trying to navigate the whole system.

• 40:30Josh Clark?

  And that's exactly what Rula is built to fix. Rula makes therapy feel a lot more approachable, a lot more human. You can find a therapist who actually fits your needs, not just whoever's available. And with insurance, sessions average around $15 copay.

• 40:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can sign up in just a few minutes. You can get matched with the right provider and even book something as soon as the next day.

• 40:49Josh Clark?

  And it's not just about starting. Rula helps you stay consistent and actually make progress because taking care of your mental health isn't a one-time thing. So if you've been thinking about therapy, don't talk yourself out of it. This is a really easy way to take that first step.

• 41:01Speaker 03

  So turn off the talk track that's keeping you from progress and head to rula.com. That is R-U-L-A dot com to find a therapist the easy way.

• 41:14Speaker 08

  Do you ever feel like your computer is tracking you? Well, it's not. It's your browser following you. But not if you come back to Firefox. Firefox blocks the trackers automatically, doesn't follow you from site to site, and supports the ad blockers other browsers dropped. Plus, you can switch AI on or off when its intelligence is acting too artificial. And switching? Totally painless. Your bookmarks, passwords, and browsing history come right with you. Come back to Firefox. Visit Firefox.com.

• 41:56Josh Clark?

  This cat is interesting, man.

• 41:58Speaker 02

  Right?

• 41:58Josh Clark?

  I don't know if everybody's picking up on it. Did you know this before? Because this is your pick, right?

• 42:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I've always been pretty fascinated with him. Because we haven't even gotten to the super weird and interesting stuff.

• 42:10Josh Clark?

  Yeah, right.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  Which happens in the 70s. So, in the 60s is when, and possibly because of the JFK treatment, is when he really starts to get more socially aware, starts donating money to the cause, and marches at Selma for the civil rights efforts. When he supported Nixon, it was not just a thumbing of the nose at Kennedy, but he bought into Nixon and thought that it was gonna be a good choice for black America. He regretted that later on, of course.

• 42:43Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  But it wasn't just a poopy pants move, like, hey, well, I'm gonna support Nixon now because you disinvited me.

• 42:51Josh Clark?

  Exactly. And so, one of the other reasons that he embraced Nixon was that Nixon embraced him as a human being, and really stood in stark contrast to the treatment he received from Kennedy.

• 43:04Josh Clark?

  In that Nixon actually seemed to really like Sammy Davis Jr. That a lot of people are like, the Nixon administration was just using Sammy Davis Jr. They were at the same time using what's called the Southern Strategy, which is they were stoking racism among Southern whites to get them to turn on the Democrats. Mm-hmm. But he also apparently really did like Sammy Davis Jr. and admired him. And under Nixon's administration, this tastes like bitter acid saying this, Sammy Davis Jr. became the first black person to sleep in the Lincoln bedroom. Yeah. And apparently Sammy Davis Jr. was an avid Lincoln fan. And sleeping in the Lincoln bedroom with some of Abraham Lincoln and Mary Todd Lincoln's

• 43:49Josh Clark?

  personal effects in this room just blew him away. Oh, I'm sure. And that was actually how he ended up in Vietnam, doing this USO tour in 1972. He said, "What can I do to help?" And Nixon said, "That would probably, that would probably help a lot." But that just contributed even further to his alienation from not just black people, but young black people too. Because it was a really tone deaf move, as I saw it described at the time. That was not the kind of thing you did. Vietnam was so unpopular that even the troops weren't particularly supported at home. You know, it's not like today where it's like, you know, "We really, really hate this, you know, these endless wars.

• 44:31Josh Clark?

  We really disagree with the, you know, the hawks and the military industrial complexes that supports us, but we're still going to be supportive of the troops who have to go there, who are over there, whether by their own choice or, well, I guess it's all volunteer army. They still deserve support, these individuals over there overseas." That was not necessarily how it was during the Vietnam era. So Sammy Davis Jr. going over there to support the troops after embracing the Nixon administration really furthered this rift between him and the black community. Which, and I don't know if we've really said this enough.

• 45:13Josh Clark?

  Was unfair and unjust because he was a fervent supporter of the civil rights movement during the 50s and 60s.

• 45:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:22Josh Clark?

  I mean fervent, like he marched in Selma with Martin Luther King Jr., scared to death, apparently, but he still went and he still did it. He contributed a ton of money to the civil rights movement. He was legit, for sure, but he also was, you know, friends with Richard Nixon. So, one kind of tarnishes the other, you know?

• 45:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. So, in the 60s, he is blown up. He's everywhere. He's on stage, he's recording records, he's on TV, he's doing celebrity roast, he's on Broadway, he's writing books, he's doing the gunslinger thing. He's making a lot of money at this point and starts spending a lot of money because he came from nothing, like we said. This is when the Rat Pack thing really heats up and he's hanging out with Joey Bishop, Peter Lawford, Dean Martin, and of course, the chairman.

• 46:19Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 46:20Speaker 02

  And started their first movie together, which was Ocean's Eleven, not a great movie.

• 46:27Josh Clark?

  Oh, disagree.

• 46:29Speaker 02

  No, I think the original's not very good.

• 46:31Josh Clark?

  Oh, I liked it.

• 46:32Speaker 02

  I thought the remake was great, but did not care for the original.

• 46:37Josh Clark?

  I like the original.

• 46:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:39Josh Clark?

  Have you seen Robin and the Seven Hoods?

• 46:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, also not great. I don't think the Rat Pack ever made a great movie.

• 46:44Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 46:45Speaker 02

  That's just my opinion.

• 46:46Josh Clark?

  What about Time Bandits?

• 46:48Speaker 02

  Fantastic.

• 46:49Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  They were hanging out at the Coconut Grove at the Ambassador Hotel, which is a place that I have a neat little quick story. I did a commercial shoot there before they tore it down and it was, you know, an empty hotel at this point that they just used for movie shoots. And it was an overnight thing and at like 2:00 in the morning, I was working in the art department and they said, "Here, you need to go assemble all these flags that we're gonna hang." And they said, "Just go in the Coconut Grove and do it, because there's plenty of room in there." And I went in there all by myself, sitting in Coconut, in the dusty old shadows of what was once the great Coconut Grove and for like an hour and a half by myself, like sitting in a booth that the Rat Pack might have sat in.

• 47:34Josh Clark?

  Wow, that's amazing.

• 47:36Speaker 02

  Really pretty neat. And later that night, got to go see where Bob Kennedy was shot.

• 47:41Josh Clark?

  Oh, that's where he was shot?

• 47:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:42Josh Clark?

  In the Ambassador Hotel.

• 47:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, in the kitchen. And one of the guy, the overnight security guy, it was just sort of one of those slow shoots. He was like to me and my friend, he's like, you want to go down in the kitchen? See what happened? And we went, oh, yeah.

• 47:53Josh Clark?

  Wow, that's amazing.

• 47:54Speaker 02

  And it was super cool and creepy.

• 47:56Josh Clark?

  Wow.

• 47:57Speaker 02

  So, anyway.

• 47:58Josh Clark?

  It's a great story, Charles.

• 47:59Speaker 02

  They're hanging out with the Rat Pack.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  And this is where it gets a little like dodgy because the Rat Pack, they were all best buds. They genuinely loved each other. But when you look at their old shtick, there is a lot of sort of racial joking about Sammy.

• 48:19Speaker 02

  It's all in good fun, but they were, there were often jokes made about him being black, being the only black member. Dean Martin, one of his famous jokes was he would pick little Sammy up on stage because Dean was a big guy and Sammy was small and thank the audience for the NAACP award. So, stuff like that.

• 48:40Josh Clark?

  So, in that, in that documentary, and I'm not like justifying that at all, but in that documentary, Whoopi Goldberg is like, you know, you can, you could take any segment of their show and be like, this is really offensive to Italians or alcoholics or women or black people or Jews. And she said they, they went hard on everybody. But from what I understand, at least as far as Sammy was concerned, he wasn't secretly, didn't secretly have a chip on his shoulder and he had to just put up with this to be a member of the Rat Pack. He seemed to really not, like, he didn't take it as if they were being hostile or cruel, that it was just part of the act and that's how he took it.

• 49:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it was certainly a different time. I mean, there was

• 49:25Josh Clark?

  For sure.

• 49:25Speaker 02

  No doubting about it that back then you could make jokes about all kinds of things that you can't joke about now.

• 49:30Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and it's like, it's not like I used to hang out with Sammy Davis Jr. and had like quiet talks with him or whatever. So, it is possible that he did, you know, harbor resentment from it, but that's not the impression that I have from, from the research that I've done.

• 49:43Speaker 02

  Let me tell you, Josh.

• 49:44Josh Clark?

  Right. But apparently no one did because this is a really bizarre thing about him. When, when he was talking about converting to Judaism, I think in like a 1966 Playboy interview.

• 49:57Josh Clark?

  He was talking about losing his eye and then, you know, converting to Judaism and that it happened during a period of soul searching and that he did all this and went through all this, even though he was convalescing at Frank Sinatra's house, even though apparently Jerry Lewis spent seven days at his bedside when he was in the hospital, had all these telegrams coming in, all this outpouring of support, he considered himself alone.

• 50:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:19Josh Clark?

  And that he was a loner. And that that was, that's really bizarre when you step back and look at that, because Sammy Davis Jr. always had friends. He was always the life of the party. He was always a good guy. Everybody wanted to be around him. He was always having fun, but he considered himself a loner. Apparently, he didn't let people in.

• 50:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:38Josh Clark?

  So even if I had been hanging around with him, he probably wouldn't have had that conversation with me anyway.

• 50:43Speaker 02

  You're like Sammy, I don't feel like I know the real you.

• 50:45Josh Clark?

  Come on Sammy, let it out.

• 50:47Speaker 02

  And he said, "That's by design, babe."

• 50:49Josh Clark?

  I feel like I'm tripping or something right now.

• 50:53Speaker 02

  So, his career is booming in the, in the 60s and into the 70s. And the result of that, of course, well, through the 60s, I guess, is that he's not around much. He had a lot of regrets about not being around as a father. As a husband, he was flandering. He was drinking a lot. He was using drugs. So in 1968, he got divorced. In 1970, he married a woman named Altavies Gore, who was 18 years his junior.

• 51:23Josh Clark?

  Great name.

• 51:24Speaker 02

  Backup dancer. His children did not like the fact that she was so much younger, but they were, stayed married, you know, for the rest of his life.

• 51:32Josh Clark?

  Yeah, he was like, "Oh, if you got a problem with her, you should probably not know about everything else I'm doing."

• 51:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. So here's where it gets really interesting.

• 51:40Josh Clark?

  Very interesting.

• 51:42Speaker 02

  Sammy Davis Jr. had a convergence of two interests in the 70s. He became a member of the Church of Satan.

• 51:52Josh Clark?

  He was an honorary warlock.

• 51:54Speaker 02

  And he got really, really into porn. And porn...

• 52:02Speaker 02

  You know, there's no better way to say it than he, he was a swinger, he was in orgies, he participated in satanic orgies.

• 52:10Josh Clark?

  Right. Yeah, that was actually, I don't know if it was his first orgy or not, but that's how he became a part of, involved in the Church of Satan.

• 52:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:18Josh Clark?

  You know, like the original Church of Satan with Anton LaVey there and everything.

• 52:23Speaker 02

  Like the real good, like the classic golden years of Church of Satan.

• 52:27Josh Clark?

  Exactly. He, he went and participated in a satanic orgy.

• 52:34Josh Clark?

  Sammy Davis Jr.

• 52:35Speaker 02

  Which I think is like a regular orgy, but with just more like red candles?

• 52:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and pentagrams and black robes and stuff like that. But then the black robes come off, but I think the pentagrams stay on. But um, he, I read this really interesting Vice article about it.

• 52:49Speaker 02

  I read that too, yeah.

• 52:50Josh Clark?

  He, he was apparently at the first one, and this would have been in the late 60s, and somebody in a hood is trying to get his attention, and it turns out he lifts the hood, and it's his barber, his barber Jay Sebring, who would later be killed with Sharon Tate by the Manson family. But he was basically like, hey Sammy, it's me Jay, how are you doing? Isn't this awesome? And then they went back to the-

• 53:15Speaker 02

  They're coming. He pulls the mask back down.

• 53:18Josh Clark?

  Yeah. But he, yeah, he was hugely into pornography, he was into orgies, into swinging, he was, he loved cocaine, and loved drinking. I saw an Arsenio interview with him, must have been very shortly before his death, where he's like, you know, I had to give everything up. And I don't miss all the other stuff, but I miss booze, I miss whiskey, I miss vodka, I love that stuff. But then I also saw another interview where he, he basically said the same thing to Larry King, like, I've given everything up, I don't smoke anymore, anything like that. And then somebody went backstage, and there's Sammy Davis Jr. smoking a cigarette, drinking a brandy. And he goes, Sammy, what are you doing? You just told Larry King that you gave all this up. He's like, I'm, I plan

• 54:01Josh Clark?

  to. So who knows what he actually gave up or didn't do. But his whole jam was, I want to experience every possible human experience I can, and I approach all this stuff without judgment, which is how he ended up becoming involved in the Church of Satan, which went on for years.

• 54:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, no judgment here. If that's his bag, it's not hurting anybody.

• 54:22Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 54:22Speaker 02

  Um, did you see the one quote about the, the ritual with the lady who was tied to the bed?

• 54:29Josh Clark?

  Where he decided like it was okay?

• 54:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was talking about it and he was like, "That chick was loving it, man."

• 54:36Josh Clark?

  You're right.

• 54:37Speaker 02

  And it, well, I won't say the rest of the quote.

• 54:39Josh Clark?

  No.

• 54:40Speaker 02

  But do you remember?

• 54:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I remember. I remember.

• 54:43Speaker 02

  So, all of this led to, um, what we were talking about earlier, this, this TV pilot that is legendary in Hollywood as one of the weirdest, worst, uh, things that Hollywood has ever produced. And it was a pilot for a TV show in 1973 called Poor Devil, which was about a man who was a low, um, low down on the totem pole, or I guess, high on the totem pole.

• 55:10Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 55:11Speaker 02

  Coal shoveler in hell, who is offered the chance to work his way up the ranks in hell if he can get the soul of Jack Klugman.

• 55:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 55:22Speaker 02

  A living white man on earth.

• 55:23Josh Clark?

  Right. Jack Klugman, Quincy M.D.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it is on YouTube and dude, it is amazing.

• 55:30Josh Clark?

  I have not had a chance to see it. I can't wait to see it, but it sounds amazing. I saw it described as like, he's a reverse Clarence from, uh, It's a Wonderful Life, which you wouldn't possibly understand that.

• 55:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure.

• 55:42Josh Clark?

  But, uh, just imagine that somebody's not trying to get you to be good so that they can, or understand how great life is. He's trying to, to get him to follow his, his most bitter-

• 55:53Speaker 02

  Right.

• 55:54Josh Clark?

  revenge impulses and stuff like that. But at one point, apparently,

• 55:59Josh Clark?

  um, Jack Klugman wants to get in touch with Sammy Davis Jr., the devil, and is like, "Oh, I know. I'll call the Church of Satan downtown. They'll know how to get in touch with them." And the Church of Satan went, "Ohhhhh," because apparently the pilot was aired and they were all about Sammy D. at this point.

• 56:13Speaker 02

  Oh, sure.

• 56:14Josh Clark?

  That's when they made him an honorary warlock.

• 56:17Josh Clark?

  He used to flash like the devil horns at them from stage when they, when he would come do a show in San Francisco.

• 56:23Speaker 02

  Funny.

• 56:24Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 56:24Speaker 02

  He, uh, Christopher Lee, by the way, played, uh, the devil, um, which is pretty on the notes, but perfect.

• 56:29Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 56:30Speaker 02

  Uh, so, that doesn't succeed, obviously. It's terrible. Uh, the seventies and the eighties, his star starts to fade a little bit. He's still around, of course. He was on All in the Family in a very famous episode where he, uh, kissed Archie Bunker, uh, on the lips. Uh, he was, we have to talk, uh, about the great, great Cannonball Run.

• 56:51Josh Clark?

  Oh yeah, he was in that, wasn't he?

• 56:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, man, he and Dean were, uh, were partners. They played-

• 56:55Josh Clark?

  I forgot about that.

• 56:56Speaker 02

  They dressed up as priests.

• 56:57Josh Clark?

  That's right.

• 56:58Speaker 02

  Heavily drinking, smoking priests. They played themselves, basically, as priests who-

• 57:02Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 57:02Speaker 02

  Wanted to drive fast.

• 57:04Josh Clark?

  That's pretty great.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  Uh, but, you know, even though we revere that film, I don't think it was looked at, uh, generally as one of the big highlights of his career.

• 57:13Josh Clark?

  Oh, I'm sure not. By this time, he's kitschy Sammy.

• 57:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:16Josh Clark?

  From what I understand, like, he was fine with that. As long as he was working- he was okay. Because I said earlier that, like, he had a certain, uh, affiliation with that song, um, Mr. Bojangles.

• 57:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 57:29Josh Clark?

  Where if you listen to it, it's about an old performer who's washed up and has been washed up for years-

• 57:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:34Josh Clark?

  And he's still drinking and just doing, you know, he's, he's been reduced to doing basically sidewalk performances. And apparently Sammy was scared to death about that being his future.

• 57:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:45Josh Clark?

  So even just doing what he was doing with Dean and Cannonball Run, I'm sure was just fine in his, in his, uh, mind because he was still working and performing.

• 57:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. Of course. He looks around and there's, there's Burt, man. There's Adrian Barbeau.

• 58:01Speaker 02

  He was, he was, you're digging the Sammy now, aren't you?

• 58:04Josh Clark?

  Yes, dude. I think Sammy needs to be a recurring character from now on in Stuff You Know episodes.

• 58:10Speaker 02

  We'll see, we'll see.

• 58:11Josh Clark?

  Okay. He's the new hippie Rob.

• 58:13Speaker 02

  So, uh, in the eighties, he gets into some financial trouble, uh, to say the least, because, uh, I love how I'd put it. He'd been struggling with tax payments since the nineteen sixties. I think it was a Willie Nelson sort of deal, from what I could gather.

• 58:28Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah?

• 58:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I think he wasn't really paying his taxes.

• 58:31Josh Clark?

  Sure, sure. And, and apparently he'd also, I don't know if he got bad tax advice or what, but he had claimed some very extravagant stuff as a write-off-

• 58:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 58:40Josh Clark?

  And the IRS came back and said, nope, you're, that doesn't count. You also owe on that. And his estate was worth, or his net assets were worth about four million, but he owed about seven million.

• 58:52Speaker 02

  Jeez.

• 58:53Josh Clark?

  And he was a profligate spender-

• 58:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:55Josh Clark?

  Of money. I saw one interview once where a guy said that he walked six blocks and- New York with them. He even named the streets. So it seems like he really did just walk six blocks and dropped fifty thousand dollars along the way, stopping in different stores.

• 59:09Speaker 02

  I thought you meant dropped it out of his pocket on the street.

• 59:11Josh Clark?

  No, no. Buying stuff. Just buy, buy, buy. He just spent it because he'd come from nothing and he knew, you know, that thrill of spending money. He was terrible with his money. And so as he, um, as he found out he owed seven million dollars, he started to organize some, some shows and specials to try to raise some money to help him pay off this debt. And after the first one, I think in nineteen eighty-nine, he has found that he had a sore throat. So he went to the doctor and ultimately was diagnosed with throat cancer.

• 59:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, after the, that very first show. That's like such cruel irony.

• 59:46Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 59:46Speaker 02

  Uh, to raise all this money because when he passed away in nineteen ninety, in May sixteenth, uh, of cancer, he left that tax bill to his wife. Uh, like that, that carried over.

• 1:00:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah, Altavice.

• 1:00:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, um, it really left her kind of destitute for the rest of her life as well.

• 1:00:07Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, for sure. Um, I mean, like she, she, then she basically owed three million dollars and his estate was sold off, like basically at a yard sale auction.

• 1:00:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:17Josh Clark?

  All of his stuff was. Um, and yeah, he, that was not, that was the, the, the negative part of his legacy was that tax debt, leaving that behind.

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. And you know, in one way, it's like kind of a sad ending, uh, with the financial stuff and obviously dying way too young of cancer, but.

• 1:00:36Josh Clark?

  Yeah, sixty-five, man.

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  He did accomplish everything he set out to accomplish. He, uh, he showed everybody who said this diminutive, little, uh, mixed race, kind of funny looking guy, uh, is never going to amount to anything. And he had a lifelong career from the age of three to sixty-five in show business, so.

• 1:00:56Josh Clark?

  And one of the things Chuck is he did not really harbor regret. He apparently, whenever he talked about his life, he talked about it with great satisfaction, which is pretty reassuring.

• 1:01:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, that quote on that Letterman show was great.

• 1:01:09Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:09Speaker 02

  On the eighty-five episode, he's, he's talking about the younger generation. And he said, I look at the young performers today and I go like this. Yeah, man, go ahead, cook. I've been there. That's it, man. I have no envy. I did it all.

• 1:01:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah, pretty great.

• 1:01:24Speaker 02

  Go ahead, cook. That's great.

• 1:01:26Josh Clark?

  Sammy Davis Jr., everybody. Round of applause. You got anything else?

• 1:01:31Speaker 02

  Got nothing else.

• 1:01:32Josh Clark?

  If you want to know more about Sammy Davis Jr., just start watching some of his old performances. They're pretty amazing. And while you're doing that, we're gonna just move on ahead to listener mail.

• 1:01:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is about the 911 pizza thing. We heard from a lot of 911 people.

• 1:01:49Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I'm glad that you picked one of these, man.

• 1:01:51Speaker 02

  This is good. Hey, while we are not specifically trained to send EMS to calls where people pretend to order a pizza, most 911 dispatchers will, in fact, ask you, "This is 911. Did you dial the wrong number?" And if they respond, "No," we will then say, "Are you in a situation where you can't ask for help?" And then they can say yes or no, obviously. There are many stories of this working out, most in domestic violence or kidnapping situations. So even though it is a protocol necessarily or set in stone as a way to ask for help, it could help many people in bad situations. We will not just hang up on you. Even if you keep ordering a pizza and do not acknowledge that you need help, most will still send out law enforcement for a welfare check due to the suspicious nature of the call.

• 1:02:37Josh Clark?

  I'm glad to hear this.

• 1:02:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, please let this be known, because in a last-ditch effort, this may save someone's life. And that is from responder Brooke Diane.

• 1:02:45Josh Clark?

  Thanks, Brooke. And thank you also, not for being like, "Josh was wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong."

• 1:02:51Speaker 02

  Oh, I don't remember. Did you say, "That's not true?"

• 1:02:53Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I said specifically, "It's an urban legend."

• 1:02:55Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. I don't even remember that.

• 1:02:57Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so I was really glad when people started writing. I'm glad you picked one to say, like, "No, this is for real."

• 1:03:02Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 1:03:04Josh Clark?

  Great. Thanks again, Brooke. That was fantastic. If you want to get in touch with us like Brooke did, even if you do want to say, "Josh was wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong," that's all right. We love to hear that kind of thing. You can send us an email to [email protected].

• 1:03:22Speaker 00

  Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 1:03:38Josh Clark?

  Buy smart, drive for less and trade for more. That's Toyota Fordability. And it starts with a great deal on an off-road-ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's longest-lasting trucks, combining power for work, tech for adventures, and style in between. And they're built on a reputation for quality and reliability, which is why Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. So get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for more. Toyota, let's go places.

• 1:04:09Speaker 03

  Long hours, work deadlines, family commitments. You give so much to everyone else. Isn't it time to invest in yourself? The University of Arizona Global Campus is built for working adults with flexible online degree programs designed to fit your adult life. Your previous education, training, and eligible experience may even help you earn college credit. At UAGC, you can take one accelerated course at a time, helping you move toward your goals in five- and six-week class formats. Just visit uagc.edu today.

• 1:04:39Speaker 08

  Do you ever feel like your computer is tracking you? Well, it's not. It's your browser following you. But not if you come back to Firefox. Firefox blocks the trackers automatically, doesn't follow you from site to site, and supports the ad blockers other browsers dropped. Plus, you can switch AI on or off when its intelligence is acting too artificial. And switching? Totally painless. Your bookmarks, passwords, and browsing history come right with you. Come back to Firefox. Visit firefox.com.

• 1:05:09Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.