Squirrels, Ahoy!

Squirrels are rodents, sure, but they’re rodents with personalities the size of Las Vegas and Detroit put together. Get to know your bushy-tailed (and sometimes not so bushy) neighbors who live interesting hidden lives right out in the open. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Josh Clark?

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• 1:06Josh Clark?

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• 1:41Josh Clark?

  Longtime listeners of Stuff You Should Know are well aware that I've come a long way with my feelings on squirrels. Time was, I saw them as a common pest who invaded my bird feeders and made me see red. But then along came my precious four-legged daughter, Momo, who taught me to appreciate squirrels in ways I never thought possible. Now Momo takes me and her mom to feed the squirrels in the park every morning, and not a day goes by that I don't lift my gaze to the skies and thank Mother Earth for our squirrel friends. Squirrels are great. Squirrels ahoy.

• 2:21Speaker 00

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

• 2:31Josh Clark?

  Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry is here. And this is one of the greatest episodes we'll ever do, as far as I'm concerned. Squirrels.

• 2:44Speaker 04

  All I really want is squirrels. I've been saying that all day.

• 2:48Josh Clark?

  That's wonderful. That is so wonderful.

• 2:51Speaker 04

  It is. That song isn't, but you know.

• 2:55Josh Clark?

  Yeah, yeah. If you go back and listen to Beastie Boys, you're like, wow.

• 2:58Speaker 04

  They've come a long way, though, in renouncing that stuff.

• 3:01Josh Clark?

  Yeah, for sure. So we're talking, not about the Beastie Boys, surprisingly, we're talking about squirrels. In the morning, it's squirrels. Every evening, it's squirrels.

• 3:10Speaker 04

  Squirrels, two syllables, right?

• 3:13Josh Clark?

  I don't care. However you want to say it, they're wonderful little bees. Sure. Or Boston, I guess, probably they say it similarly as well.

• 3:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:24Josh Clark?

  But if you want to get fancy, you can bust out their Latin name. They're members of the rodent order, but for their family, they're squiridae. Skuridae?

• 3:34Speaker 04

  Nope.

• 3:35Josh Clark?

  Skuridae?

• 3:37Speaker 04

  I'll look this one up.

• 3:39Speaker 04

  Siuridae.

• 3:43Josh Clark?

  I like mine more.

• 3:44Speaker 04

  Okay. Did you just toot on my pronunciation?

• 3:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah, even though it was correct.

• 3:50Speaker 04

  Did you give me a Bronx cheer?

• 3:52Josh Clark?

  How, how is it? Siuridae?

• 3:55Speaker 04

  Well, let me do the person online. Siuridae.

• 3:58Josh Clark?

  Okay. Is that Emma who said that?

• 4:00Speaker 04

  Or Siuridae was another, but I think we've heard from people that D A E is die.

• 4:06Josh Clark?

  Okay. And that's fine, if that's what it's called. I, I'm just going to call them squirrels from now on, but there's actually

• 4:13Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 4:13Josh Clark?

  like 300 species of squirrels. And it's, it's kind of hard to wrap your head around, because usually, if you live in a place with squirrels, meaning you live on a continent outside of Antarctica.

• 4:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, like everywhere, basically.

• 4:28Josh Clark?

  There are probably a lot of squirrels living around you, and they probably all look basically exactly alike. Because it seems like when they fill an ecological niche, brother, they fill it. And it, there's not much room for competing species, it seems like, from my experience.

• 4:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, there are, and who helped us with this? Was this Ed?

• 4:50Josh Clark?

  This is a Grabster.

• 4:51Speaker 04

  Yeah. So Grabster points out that, you know, you can find mountain squirrels and city squirrels and forest squirrels and jungle squirrels and desert squirrels. You can find squirrels in Alaska that hibernate with the lowest body temperature of any mammal. Their body temperature is below freezing at times.

• 5:14Josh Clark?

  That's so cool.

• 5:15Speaker 04

  You can go to Africa and find one of the cutest squirrels, the African pygmy squirrel, which is as small as a tiny little mouse. Or you can go to Bhutan and find the giant flying squirrel of Bhutan that with their head and body and is over two feet long with that tail. They're huge.

• 5:35Josh Clark?

  No, two feet long without the tail.

• 5:37Speaker 04

  Oh, without the tail, yes.

• 5:38Josh Clark?

  They're distressingly large.

• 5:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, because the squirrel tail, we'll get into this, but that's one of their signature features generally, although depending on the species, because there are 300 species, like you said, more than, or almost 300. Some of those tails are a little diminished, but usually when you think squirrel, you think of that big bushy tail.

• 5:59Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and not only when you think of squirrel, you think of the tail, but the Greeks themselves.

• 6:06Josh Clark?

  Somebody decided that a Greek term would make sense, but scurios or scurios, which roughly means something like shadow tail. Ed says shady butt. I also saw shadow tail, which is a reference to how squirrels sometimes hide in the shadow cast by their own tail. It's pretty clever. But the squirrel is usually kind of, the bushy tail of the squirrel is what makes a squirrel a squirrel. One of the other things that really differentiates it from other rodents is the way that its jaw and muscle are attached to its skull. There's actually a name for it. Seriomorphis zygomaseteric system.

• 6:43Speaker 04

  Hey, look at you.

• 6:45Josh Clark?

  Hooked on phonics works for me.

• 6:48Speaker 04

  You even recorded the new pronunciation.

• 6:50Josh Clark?

  That's right.

• 6:51Speaker 04

  You worked it right in there with the Syria die.

• 6:53Josh Clark?

  I adapted. Yeah, cuz you should have heard it before when I was workshopping it.

• 6:58Speaker 04

  That was the first take, everybody. We're not lying.

• 7:01Josh Clark?

  So, um, so, uh, those are two things that really kind of differentiate squirrels. But as we've really, um, gotten better and better at taxonomy with the introduction of, um, uh, genome mapping.

• 7:15Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 7:15Josh Clark?

  We can see like, oh, this animal that doesn't look anything like this animal is actually really closely related. And with, as with just about every other animal we've studied using modern genetic taxonomy. Um, squirrels, our, our understanding of squirrels has really kind of changed shape of who's related to whom, uh, who's descended from who. But there's, there, we're kind of gonna go the old school way, which is differentiating them based on their habitat and their behavior. So there's three groups of squirrels that we're gonna cover, even though there's technically five sub-families now. Ground squirrels, tree squirrels, and flying squirrels. And before we go any further, I officially dedicate this episode to Momo.

• 7:59Josh Clark?

  One of the great lovers of squirrels of all time, who changed, changed me and my heart.

• 8:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:06Josh Clark?

  Towards squirrels. I used to be a squirrel hater, Chuck. You remember?

• 8:08Speaker 04

  Dogs love squirrels.

• 8:09Josh Clark?

  You remember?

• 8:10Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. The bird feeder.

• 8:12Josh Clark?

  Momo pointed out to me, said, Dad, squirrels are great. I'm gonna teach you to love them. And she did.

• 8:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, dogs and squirrels. It's, uh, what was the Disney, uh, it was either Pixar or Disney had an animated, uh, movie where the dog would just stop and go squirrel. Anytime there's a squirrel. I can't remember which one it was.

• 8:34Josh Clark?

  I don't remember.

• 8:35Speaker 04

  It wasn't that long ago. Uh, but before we move on to ground squirrels, uh, it is kind of fun to learn that because of that DNA, uh, analysis that we now have at our fingertips and fossil evidence, we know that squirrels, uh, went to Western North America 35 to 40 million years ago. Because squirrels like to get around, as we will see. They crossed a land bridge to Eurasia about 10 million years after that. And then as soon as they could, as soon as Eurasia met up with Africa about 20 million years ago, they went, all right, we're in Africa now too, because squirrels like to get around. They, uh, as you will see. Well, we'll just tease that and say squirrels like to get around.

• 9:17Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I mean, you put one tree next to another, squirrel's gonna go from tree to tree. Put another tree, squirrel's gonna go to the next tree. If you put trees all the way across one continent to another, they're going to migrate. That's just what they do, and that's what they did. But if I thought I loved squirrels before, now that I know that they're actually native from 35 million years back to North America, I just think that's, that's just the tops.

• 9:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, and we talked about it before when you were having your bird feeder issue. But, you know, Atlanta is a city in the forest and we have tons and tons and tons of squirrels. Kind of everywhere along the East Coast does, but Atlanta just has a lot of squirrels. And as I was reading, you know, from my upstairs office, there's a window, not right in front of my face, but sort of above me, and our huge, big, beautiful oak in our front yard. I'm doing this on squirrels. I just look up for a second and I see four squirrels running around that tree together, playing, like circling it like a barber pole.

• 10:16Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 10:17Speaker 04

  I take my daughter to school this morning and I count the squirrels that I see on the way. I counted 22 squirrels that I just saw on a, you know, 12 minute car ride.

• 10:27Josh Clark?

  You hit one of them.

• 10:28Speaker 04

  There, I have before, it's the worst thing ever.

• 10:30Josh Clark?

  It is the worst.

• 10:32Speaker 04

  But they're everywhere in Atlanta, and it hit me a while ago about how easy it is living here, just, or anywhere where there's a lot of squirrels, just to sort of be like, yeah, the squirrels, but it kind of hit me like how crazy it is that there are these little mammals, they're not hiding in holes generally like mice and stuff like that.

• 10:54Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 10:55Speaker 04

  Like, they're just out all over the place at all times, we're surrounded by these little mammals.

• 11:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah, out and proud. And if you come close, too close to one of their trees when you're walking by and the squirrel doesn't like it, he's gonna sit there, or she, and chatter at you and basically tell you to beat it, you punk, get away from my tree. That's how, that's one of the great lovable things about squirrels. They have such huge personalities. They're just so great, Chuck.

• 11:21Speaker 04

  I got, remember my famous squirrel attack not too long ago? When I went outside, I got it on my doorbell camera and that squirrel leapt through the air and hit me in the leg. It was a complete accident, of course. I don't think the squirrel was trying to kill me, but

• 11:35Josh Clark?

  You don't know.

• 11:36Speaker 04

  They're just, they're all over the place. We're going to get to all the fun stuff about the, the black squirrels of New York and why squirrels stop in the middle of the road when they go to cross the street. Like there, we found reasons for all this stuff, which I love. It's not that squirrels are dumb and we're going to reveal all that in this episode.

• 11:55Josh Clark?

  Okay. I'm a little excited. I'm a little worked up. I know it's a tad early, but I say we take our first break. Okay. We are so squirrel positive that, I mean, it's a great way to put it, Chuck.

• 12:06Speaker 04

  All right. So are we taking a break?

• 12:08Josh Clark?

  I say.

• 12:08Speaker 04

  All right. I need to calm down too. And I guarantee you, I'm going to go like blow my nose in the other room. I'm going to see a squirrel. I'll be right back.

• 12:26Speaker 05

  First thought is like, wow, how are we going to do all this?

• 12:29Josh Clark?

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• 12:32Speaker 02

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• 12:55Josh Clark?

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• 13:19Josh Clark?

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• 13:31Josh Clark?

  Sure.

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• 13:42Josh Clark?

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• 15:05Speaker 02

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• 15:37Josh Clark?

  All right Chuck, so as promised, we're gonna break squirrels down into three groups, ground, tree, flying, or aerial. And I propose that we start with the ground squirrel.

• 15:50Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 15:51Josh Clark?

  Many species of which you probably, not you, but I mean you dear listener, and me all include too, didn't realize were actual squirrels.

• 16:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, I didn't know that either.

• 16:02Josh Clark?

  Groundhog Chuck?

• 16:03Speaker 04

  Did not know that was a squirrel.

• 16:04Josh Clark?

  Chipmunk?

• 16:06Speaker 04

  I had a feeling that might be a squirrel.

• 16:08Josh Clark?

  Gosh, they're so great too.

• 16:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, I love chipmunks.

• 16:10Josh Clark?

  What about a groundhog?

• 16:14Speaker 04

  You already said groundhog.

• 16:15Josh Clark?

  Did I?

• 16:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:17Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 16:17Speaker 04

  I love in a list of four things.

• 16:19Josh Clark?

  I'm swirling, I'm swirling still at my love of squirrels.

• 16:22Speaker 04

  Prairie dog.

• 16:24Josh Clark?

  Yeah, well that's what was coming out of my mouth next, a prairie dog.

• 16:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, prairie dog, didn't know that.

• 16:28Josh Clark?

  What about that? Meerkat?

• 16:30Speaker 04

  I didn't know that.

• 16:31Josh Clark?

  Well, that's because they're not, but.

• 16:33Speaker 04

  Oh, okay.

• 16:34Josh Clark?

  Prairie dogs, chipmunks, and what was the other one?

• 16:38Speaker 04

  Marmots.

• 16:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah, marmots, I had brought them in, and groundhogs. Those are all ground squirrels. They're squirrels friends. And that makes them pretty awesome. But one of the reasons why you wouldn't think they're squirrels is because in a lot of those species, they lack that characteristic bushy tail.

• 16:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:56Josh Clark?

  But then also, they live almost a totally different life from their tree dwelling, more famous cousins.

• 17:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, they might climb a tree, but generally, you're not gonna see a groundhog or a prairie dog up in the tree. If they need to, you know, for a brief time, if they're trying to find food or something, or like on the run from something trying to kill it, they might go up in a tree. But they generally hang out on the ground, hence the name. They love their rocky terrain. Chipmunks, for just speaking for them, are pretty solitary unless they're trying to reproduce. But I know that you've found some stuff. Was it on the prairie dogs that have their big families and colonies?

• 17:38Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I mean, that's one of the main characteristics of ground squirrels in general, aside from a couple, but they're much more communal than tree squirrels. And in particular, the largest town, a prairie dog town is what they're called. The largest prairie dog town on record is in Texas, because of course, everything's bigger there. But it was a colony of black-tailed prairie dogs. And this town, Chuck, stretched 100 miles wide by 250 miles long and contained 400 million prairie dogs.

• 18:11Speaker 04

  Oh, my gosh.

• 18:12Josh Clark?

  Again, ground squirrels, all living in this kind of large community.

• 18:16Speaker 04

  Jeez.

• 18:18Josh Clark?

  I mean, that's like, it's like a Chinese megacity or something like that times 10.

• 18:22Speaker 04

  Yeah. So are these the ones that tend to stay grouped with their own sex?

• 18:29Josh Clark?

  No, those tend to be either tree squirrels or flying squirrels. These are more, because they live in communal groups and kinship is a big deal. Ground squirrels, like prairie dogs, tend to have a really good ability to smell the scent of other ground squirrels. So they can tell like who's a blood relation, who's not. And they've done studies to see, you know, if a ground squirrel, they have a lot of really sophisticated calls too, because they're alerting others to the presence of a rattlesnake or a hawk or something. So they're really talkative and they have a lot of sophisticated, different communication.

• 19:11Josh Clark?

  And they found that like a prairie dog that will stand up and take the time to risk its own life to alert others, it's actually alerting the others that it's alerting are actually related by blood. And the groundhog or the prairie dog knows this because it can smell its blood relations among all these other, you know, extended family members in the town.

• 19:33Speaker 04

  There's not much cuter than a squirrel sitting up on its rear haunches.

• 19:38Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 19:39Speaker 04

  Uh, whether it's, I mean, obviously those prairie dogs, you know, they do it for a living, but uh, even our eastern gray squirrels sit up on those back legs if they wanna work a nut with their little front paw pads.

• 19:51Josh Clark?

  Yeah, or a chipmunk on its back legs. It's, it doesn't get much cuter than that.

• 19:54Speaker 04

  Those little busy hands. Goodness me.

• 19:56Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 19:57Speaker 04

  All right. So we can move on to our tree squirrel. This is, uh, they're known as, uh, arboreal squirrels, obviously, because they are tree squirrels. And this is when you're talking your eastern gray squirrel. This is not a groundhog. This is not a prairie dog. This is your dyed in the wool, cute little fluffy tailed, sort of, you know, they're called gray, but they're sort of a light brownish color generally, although the colors do range, as we'll see. Uh, and these are the ones that you're gonna find all over Atlanta, jumping around, climbing around, leaping at podcasters in their, uh, front lawn.

• 20:32Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 20:32Speaker 04

  Uh, they spend most of the time, uh, I mean, you see them on the ground plenty, but they live in trees. They nest in trees uh, called drays or, uh, drays or drays, spelled with an E or an A.

• 20:46Josh Clark?

  Right. Um, and you probably, if you've ever looked up and seen a mass of like sticks and twigs in a, a leafless tree in the middle of winter, you're looking at a squirrel's nest called a dray. Um, and this is where you were, you were asking about them, um, staying in like same-sex groups. Apparently in the winter, um, even though the, the tree squirrel does not live in a communal society like a ground squirrel does, it's, they're still social. They still interact with one another. They play, they chase, they chase one another off. They like mate. Um, but when it gets really cold, uh, tree squirrels will, um, kind of group their heat together by staying in a, a dray communally, up to like 30 members.

• 21:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's adorable.

• 21:32Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it is very adorable. I, I wanna do a little exercise here real quick, Chuck.

• 21:35Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 21:36Josh Clark?

  I want you to use your imagination.

• 21:39Speaker 04

  Eyes are closed.

• 21:40Josh Clark?

  Imagine a very cold winter day. The wind's blowing. Snow's being carried on the wind. And it's passing by just outside a woodpecker hole. And we're inside that woodpecker hole.

• 21:52Speaker 04

  I love it.

• 21:53Josh Clark?

  Dark, the light is very, very faint because it's it's kind of an overcast snowy day to begin with. But we're also inside a tree in an old woodpecker hole. And it's lined with a bunch of different leaves. And there's half a dozen or so squirrels all kind of snuggled together, sleeping, sharing their warmth as the winter day passes by outside and they snooze an afternoon away, fat on acorns that they all just ate.

• 22:17Speaker 04

  Oh, boy.

• 22:18Josh Clark?

  Isn't that amazing?

• 22:19Speaker 04

  I almost fell asleep. You're real Robert Frost, my friend.

• 22:22Josh Clark?

  Thank you. Thank you.

• 22:23Speaker 04

  That was something else.

• 22:24Josh Clark?

  I like to think Robert Redford crossed with Robert Frost, but sure.

• 22:28Speaker 04

  Well, you know, Robert Redford, if you look in the mirror, but Robert Frost, when you pick a pen up.

• 22:33Josh Clark?

  With the touch of Robert Goulet.

• 22:35Speaker 04

  If you sang it, surely.

• 22:38Speaker 04

  Oh, man, that really did almost put me to sleep. That's quite nice. I love that scene. So here's a little fun adaptation that squirrels have. If you see a tree squirrel running down a tree face first with with little

• 22:55Speaker 04

  resistance, just like it was made to do it, it's because it is. And they have those little claws, of course, that really helps. But if you look closely, or if you look up a picture rather, and you see like a still image, you will notice that they have the ability to, and Ed says they can turn their feet around. They really kind of just turn their whole back legs around backwards.

• 23:15Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 23:15Speaker 04

  To where those claws are gripping on the way down. And that's why they're, you know, it's like the perfect adaptation to be able to run up and down a tree.

• 23:26Josh Clark?

  So have you ever watched one do that up close?

• 23:30Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 23:31Josh Clark?

  So anytime I've seen that there, if you look their legs, because they're turned around, it kicks kind of their elbows out a little bit. And though they climb down, it looks a little different. And I've noticed that it triggers the part of my lizard brain that's like a spider alert. It's like, that comes that it's triggered by that. So it's like a giant furry spider is coming down to some little part of my brain that sends off an alarm. And it's really off putting sometimes until I, you know, the larger part, the executive functioning part of my brain is like, it's a squirrel, don't worry. But there's that one just zap of like, this is weird and scary for a second, but it happens to me from time to time when they come down the, the, the tree like that.

• 24:15Speaker 04

  Well, it can be a little startling, you know, if you're going to take out the trash or something and your trash can is next to a big live oak like ours is, and, and there are two or more squirrels that are, they seem, I don't know what they're doing. They seem like they have a beef with one another, but maybe they're just playing chase. But when they're really boogie and up and down and around a tree, uh, right as you walk upon it is, it can be a little bit like, oh, okay.

• 24:37Josh Clark?

  I read that when one was chasing the other, um, it's a part of the mating ritual.

• 24:41Speaker 04

  Oh, okay. So that's, that's, uh, embarrassing for them.

• 24:45Josh Clark?

  Right. I don't, I don't know if that's across the board, but I saw that in at least one place.

• 24:50Speaker 04

  All right. I like knowing that. Here's another cool thing about squirrels. They have all kinds of squirrels have scent glands and it depends on the species where that scent gland is located. It can be, uh, near their little bum hole. It can be near their mouth and the corners of their mouth, uh, can be on their back. But in the case of the tree squirrel, um, they have their scent glands on their feet and sweat glands on the bottom of their feet. And they are a squirrel that buries their, uh, their food over large, large areas, sometimes like up to 25 acres, uh, can be their habitat where they're burying and hiding food. And they are literally every time they walk to bury something, they're leaving a little scent trail that they can go back and pick up ideally, uh, but it's not a perfect system.

• 25:35Speaker 04

  Sometimes they will lose stuff and not be able to go back. But what they have then done is planted a tree.

• 25:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Which brings up their huge ecological role, um, which is like planting new forests, like keeping forests healthy by forgetting about nuts and that nut is actually a seed and it grows into a new tree that the squirrel helped move away from the tree.

• 25:57Speaker 04

  It's amazing.

• 25:57Josh Clark?

  Expanding its range.

• 25:58Speaker 04

  They're known as the gardeners of the forest.

• 26:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and we did a whole short stuff on squirrels burying nuts. And I remember one of the things that came up was there was a study that found that if they know they're being watched by another squirrel, they'll fake dig a hole and then won't drop the nut in it and then will go somewhere else and mislead a squirrel that they think is watching them.

• 26:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, they'll look around first and be like, did anyone see that?

• 26:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 26:23Speaker 04

  I think I'm good.

• 26:23Josh Clark?

  Todd was watching. I better not drop the nut in this hole. He'll come along.

• 26:28Speaker 04

  So that's what the, I'm sorry, not the flying, but the tree squirrels, that's how they use their scent. The ground squirrels, we should say, mainly use their scent glands to mark their territory and, you know, because they're all about their clan or their colony to sort of mark their territory and find out if someone is a part of their clan.

• 26:47Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And then also, as far as scents go, I saw somewhere that some kinds of ground squirrels that are prey to rattlesnakes will actually find shed rattlesnake skin, rub it on themselves.

• 26:59Speaker 04

  Oh, wow.

• 26:59Josh Clark?

  Chew it up and rub it on themselves to give themselves a rattlesnake scent to throw off rattlesnakes. They camouflage their scent.

• 27:06Speaker 04

  That's pretty cool.

• 27:08Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 27:09Speaker 04

  I wonder if they ever wear it and just like fashion a couple of holes and stick their arms through.

• 27:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and they brag that they killed it.

• 27:14Speaker 04

  Yeah. Have you, oh, man, I shouldn't even mention this. Nah, I'm gonna mention it. Have you, because it is roadkill, but have you ever seen the pictures of the squirrel roadkill with the little G.I. Joe action figures?

• 27:29Josh Clark?

  No.

• 27:31Speaker 04

  Just look it up. I can, they aren't squirrels that someone killed. It's someone will take a roadkill picture of a squirrel and they'll take the little G.I. Joe figures as if they were big game hunters and they'll have their guns and they'll have like one leg up on the squirrel's head as if it was their trophy and the squirrel looks positively giant next to the little action figures and it's kind of funny.

• 27:55Josh Clark?

  I'll have to check that one out.

• 27:56Speaker 04

  I don't want to encourage people. Maybe I shouldn't have even said anything.

• 27:58Josh Clark?

  Well, I don't know if you're encouraging people to like swerve onto a squirrel, you know?

• 28:03Speaker 04

  I know.

• 28:04Josh Clark?

  There's probably just that one guy.

• 28:05Speaker 04

  Or kill a squirrel to do that, but maybe just look it up on the internet if you want to see that. Don't recreate it.

• 28:10Josh Clark?

  If you kill a squirrel and we find out about it, we're coming to your house.

• 28:14Speaker 04

  I know.

• 28:15Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 28:16Speaker 04

  With the ghost of that squirrel.

• 28:18Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 28:19Speaker 04

  That we'll introduce to your attic.

• 28:21Josh Clark?

  There you go. So have we moved on to flying squirrels yet?

• 28:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, let's do it. Those are, you know, the old story when we had one growing up for a little while. You probably don't remember, but my uncle gave us his flying squirrel to watch for a while and he would leap from the curtains on the other side of the room onto my shoulder. And then when we went out of town, apparently they said the squirrel got out. But now that I'm adult, I realize that the cat ate the squirrel.

• 28:48Josh Clark?

  Oh, man.

• 28:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, just to recap that childhood trauma.

• 28:51Josh Clark?

  That's wow. Okay.

• 28:54Speaker 04

  But for a little while, we had a flying squirrel in our home.

• 28:57Josh Clark?

  For a brief shining moment.

• 28:59Speaker 04

  That's the upshot.

• 29:00Josh Clark?

  So a flying squirrel, I, and I thought this, I thought they were fairly rare. Apparently they're as common as tree squirrels in some places. The reason that you think they're rare is because they're nocturnal. So we're usually sleeping when they're out and about.

• 29:15Speaker 04

  I love thinking about those things just flying around all night.

• 29:17Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and flying is right, man. I saw, Ed says the thing glide up to 150 feet. I saw 300 in some cases.

• 29:25Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 29:26Josh Clark?

  And that's what they're doing. They're gliding. They're not flying. They have no means of like propulsion. But they have a skin flap. They've evolved the skin flap that is, you know, the bat suit that people like, you know, skydive with. That's, that is based basically 100% on the, the flying squirrel's membranes between its front legs and hind legs. That it can, you know, spread out when it jumps and it just catches the air and they can move it this way and that and use their tail as a rudder and go 150 feet in a pretty purposeful direction too.

• 30:03Speaker 04

  Did you say what the name of the flap was?

• 30:05Josh Clark?

  No.

• 30:06Speaker 04

  Do you want to?

• 30:07Josh Clark?

  No, I'd probably screw it up.

• 30:11Speaker 04

  I'm gonna go with a pitagiam.

• 30:13Josh Clark?

  That's great.

• 30:14Speaker 04

  I wonder what they call that.

• 30:15Josh Clark?

  Patagiam.

• 30:17Speaker 04

  I wonder what they call that in the, in the flying suit biz, extreme flying suit biz.

• 30:23Josh Clark?

  I don't know. And I think they call them bat suits, but that's, that's a misnomer, if you ask me.

• 30:28Speaker 04

  Those, I gotta say, I mean, I'm not into any of that stuff. I would never do it, but those videos are amazing and it's.

• 30:34Josh Clark?

  Oh, I know.

• 30:35Speaker 04

  As it closes, humans have come, I think, to flying, it feels like.

• 30:39Josh Clark?

  Agreed. I, yeah, I would have to have probably a lobotomy to, to actually try that. It would take that radical of a personality change for me to try.

• 30:50Speaker 04

  Well, and I mean, sure, that kind of thing, that's the most extreme, like years and years of training.

• 30:55Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 30:55Speaker 04

  Skydiving training and stuff like that. You don't just jump into a bat suit.

• 30:59Josh Clark?

  No, no, no, definitely not. But even if you do, you know, once you get to that point, like, I can't imagine how dangerous that is, you know? If you smack into something, you're going really fast.

• 31:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. You're toast.

• 31:10Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 31:11Speaker 04

  And that happens sadly.

• 31:12Josh Clark?

  But I get the impression that it's, the rush is worth the risk.

• 31:17Speaker 04

  That's right. And speaking of risk, there are endangered flying squirrels, the Carolina northern flying squirrel. And we talked a little bit about these little land bridges that are starting to pop up in the United States over, overpasses and freeway crossings.

• 31:35Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 31:35Speaker 04

  And I just read today, there's one in, in LA that's opening up, that's like 160 feet wide. I can't remember the name of it. It's named after someone and to allow cougars and, you know, mountain lions to pass and all kinds of animals. And they're using, you know, they have done studies for squirrels and that they found tagged, like radio tagged squirrels. Are foraging and building on the other side of these massive freeways, thanks to these bridges, like it's been proven to work.

• 32:06Josh Clark?

  Yeah, for sure. I think it's called the Robert Evans Memorial Animal Land Bridge.

• 32:12Speaker 04

  Baby.

• 32:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, if only.

• 32:17Josh Clark?

  So that actually kind of leads us to a quote I ran across Chuck. Because if you put, like I was saying, if you can kind of connect a tree to another tree, which really ties into that rewilding episode, because you're using, you're connecting core to core via corridor, basically is what they're doing with that. That, there was an old saying that before, not too long ago, I think into the 18th century, maybe even early 19th century, that there was so many chestnut trees in North America that a squirrel could make it from Maine to Georgia without ever touching the ground.

• 32:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, where did we cover that in? Was it?

• 32:56Josh Clark?

  I don't remember.

• 32:57Speaker 04

  I remember that factoid, that's a great one.

• 33:00Josh Clark?

  So it really kind of goes to show, like, there used to be a lot more forests in the United States, but there were also a lot more squirrels, because there's a positive correlation between mast-producing trees, which are chestnut, beech, oak, trees that produce nuts that squirrels and other forest animals eat, and the number and population density of squirrels in an area. You have a lot of mast-producing trees, you're going to have a lot of squirrels. Because again, they fill their ecological niche to basically bursting.

• 33:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, and they, you know, bursting with food, because they are opportunistic eaters, is what Ed says, and that's a pretty good way to say it, because while they, well, obviously, if they can get fruit or nuts and seeds, that's the stock of their diet, but they will eat whatever keeps them alive. They will eat insects and fungus, and they actually spread fungus, which is great.

• 34:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 34:01Speaker 04

  They eat roots, they have, they have found little tiny eggs and little tiny birds and little tiny lizards in the guts of squirrels.

• 34:09Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 34:10Speaker 04

  So they, you know, technically are omnivores, which is just to say squirrels are remarkable at staying alive, and they will eat your garbage, they will eat whatever they need to, but that's only if they're not finding the nuts and the seeds and stuff like that, which there are generally plenty of in the United States.

• 34:29Josh Clark?

  And one reason that they're suited for nuts, or that nuts are suited for them, is because they have two sets of incisors, I believe, up and down is the technical term, and they grow constantly throughout their lifetime. I think they grow something like... Is this even possible that I'm seeing it six inches a year?

• 34:50Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, they're constantly grinding them down. So I think if a squirrel was in a coma, they could have six inch fangs.

• 34:56Josh Clark?

  That's crazy. And then apparently if they don't continuously grind them down and they kept growing, they would grow through the top and the bottom of their face, ala Lisa Simpson, that time she needed braces.

• 35:10Josh Clark?

  But that's crazy. So they, they use these very, very hard nuts, like a chestnut or pecan or walnut shell to impart, it's a food source, but as they're getting to the food source, they're keeping their teeth ground down, which apparently they have to do all the time.

• 35:25Speaker 04

  That's pretty amazing. Squirrels also like a little sweet treat every now and then. They have found red squirrels in Maine that will tap sugar maple trees. They make little bite marks in the tree and then they just say, all right, do your thing. And they come back a few days later and that trap has hardened up and run out a little bit. And that is just a little tiny sweet treat for a squirrel.

• 35:46Josh Clark?

  That's right. It was pretty awesome. They also found that squirrels can learn by observing other squirrels doing something, particularly finding new ways to get food. They're adept at that.

• 35:58Speaker 04

  Okay. So they see Todd doing something and they say, not a bad idea. Let's give that a shot.

• 36:03Josh Clark?

  Yeah. That Todd really came around.

• 36:06Speaker 04

  Yeah. And if you'll notice, I think we kind of skipped over this. If we didn't mention Australia, squirrels, I think, used to be in Australia, but aren't so much now. And is it a mystery? Or is it just the obvious that the Australians were like, soup's on, mate?

• 36:21Josh Clark?

  I don't know. I didn't see that anywhere, but I know that they introduced the eastern gray. And then in Perth, they introduced the Indian palm, which is like, if you mash together an eastern gray squirrel and a chipmunk, that it would be an Indian palm squirrel. But apparently they both died out. I don't know if it's a mystery or not, like you were saying, but supposedly there's some feral colonies that escaped from zoos, at least in Perth. So there are wild squirrels in Australia, but they were introduced in the 19th century, which is actually a trend, as we'll see. But I say, before we, we tackle all that, we take a break. How about that?

• 36:59Speaker 04

  All right. Well, we'll take the break and we'll talk about squirrel migration right after this.

• 37:16Josh Clark?

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• 39:29Josh Clark?

  Okay Chuck, so as I was saying, like back before pre-colonial days in particular, but also even into the 19th century, I think even the 1960s, there were reports of massive numbers of squirrels, basically stampeding.

• 39:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 39:45Josh Clark?

  They call them squirrel migrations, and they have been documented enough times that it's not an anomaly, but they are fairly rare. And today, they've kind of figured out that there aren't dense enough populations of squirrels to ever have a genuine squirrel stampede like they had before. But there used to be so many of them that every once in a while, thousands to tens of thousands, to tens to tens of thousands of squirrels would pass generally in like a big wave over an area. And apparently, it was quite a thing to see.

• 40:17Speaker 04

  I imagine it was, and this happened because there would just be a really big fruitful year for squirrel food, tons of availability, and they would boom in numbers because they go to where the food is. And usually if that is followed by, or I guess historically, when that was followed by a really bad year, like the rain didn't work out so great for producing nuts and seeds and stuff, and fruit, that all of a sudden, you've got a ton of squirrels in an area that are all looking around going, "Oh, what's the deal?" And they're opportunists, so they said, "All right, we're getting out of here, we're going to where the food is. Let's go, everybody!" And they would do it all at once.

• 41:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah, all at once for some reason. And so these migrations, they would be, they'd be running through the forest, they'd be running across fields, they'd be swimming across rivers. And apparently, in at least one account I saw, they would be gulped up by bass in the rivers. And I can't imagine seeing anything worse than a squirrel being eaten by a fish.

• 41:21Speaker 04

  That seems unnatural.

• 41:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah, but there were so many of them. And this is also at a time where squirrels were roundly among basically everyone living in America viewed as vermin, as...

• 41:34Josh Clark?

  Invaders as things that were unwanted, but also a tasty food source, too.

• 41:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:39Josh Clark?

  Anytime there was a squirrel stampede, the yokels would run out with their sticks and bags and beat squirrels to death and then cook them and sell their pelts and do all sorts of things with them. And one of the reasons why they were viewed as vermin, Chuck, is because on these squirrel migrations and other times where they were just, you know, if you were unlucky with your planting, those squirrels might see as a food source, the crops you just planted, all those seeds and would dig them up and ruin your year's crops in a day or so. So people didn't like squirrels for a very long time. And this idea of squirrels being everywhere, these little mammals living among us, like you were talking about earlier, that's fairly new and that's actually very deliberate and purposeful because squirrels were basically gone

• 42:24Josh Clark?

  up until about the mid to late 19th century in America.

• 42:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, between being hunted because people hated them on their farms. Like you said, people and people still and like generally in certain parts of like Appalachia still eat squirrel on the menu. It is a little gamey from what I'm told. I'm never going to eat a squirrel. But they still use pelts, but that kind of, you know, just like they would eat any larger mammal and use their pelts. They would just get crafty with, you know, as small as a squirrel. And certainly in times of, you know, real need, you know, small rodents would come in handy on the menu back then. But they were almost gone. We started growing more urban in the 1800s, obviously. And they were killing squirrels as fast as they could.

• 43:13Speaker 04

  And in the 1840s and 50s, there were so few squirrels that they were introduced to city parks. But not many at first. They were just like this weird curiosity where you would go out kind of like bird watching and you would like try to spot a squirrel running around.

• 43:30Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 43:31Speaker 04

  Because it was such a novel thing. But then by the time Frederick Law Olmsted, who by the way deserves his own podcast, came along and really introduced the idea of these really large city parks and urban parks. They introduced a lot of squirrels to these parks. And they really, really like, that's kind of why we have the squirrels we have today. Was from this movement to reintroduce them in a big way to urban parks.

• 43:55Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and I mean, we talked kind of a lot about that whole idea in our Central Park episode, this idea that, you know, they just kept building the city and building the city and building city and people started going crazy because there weren't green spaces. So that that brought the parks in and then the the idea of adding animals to the park just to kind of naturalize it even more. That squirrels played a huge role in that. And not only, you know, in Central Park, but also it started out in, I believe, Philadelphia and then followed by Boston. And so by the the mid to late 19th century, that's when squirrels started to reestablish themselves and the way that people saw squirrels started

• 44:34Josh Clark?

  to change too. And there was this idea that they weren't vermin anymore. Don't shoot them. Please try not to hit them with a stick. Instead, let's go to the park, spend some time outside and bring some nuts with you and maybe feed the squirrels. And not only you feed the squirrels, but you got a little kid? That little kid wants to hit that squirrel with a stick so bad because kids are awful like that.

• 44:57Speaker 04

  Good luck.

• 44:58Josh Clark?

  But you can actually use squirrels, feeding squirrels, as a way to teach kids to have compassion, to be upstanding morally, to have charity. And that was kind of how the the whole interaction between humans and squirrels was kind of framed around that time, like the late 19th, early 20th century.

• 45:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, the Boy Scout co-founder Ernest Thompson Seaton said that squirrels and introducing them to to boys in general would say would cure them of their tendency toward cruelty. But I said, good luck a second ago. How do you hit a, I mean, I guess if there's a stampede, but you show me a kid that can get a squirrel and hit it with a stick. And that's a future Olympian.

• 45:41Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 45:42Speaker 04

  There's no way. Those things are so fast. But don't try to do it, kids. Definitely.

• 45:46Josh Clark?

  No, don't even practice that. Don't try to qualify for the Olympics and that because you'll show up to the Olympics, they'll be like, we don't, we don't have that. That's not one of our sports.

• 45:55Speaker 04

  See, what do you think this is, Australia? So these days, you know, we've kind of come full circle into just sort of letting squirrels be. There are, you know, if you're a hunter in the United States, and it may be the tradition in your family. If you live out in the country to start off your child with hunting squirrels, with a little 22 rifle or something to, as practice to teach young hunters. I'm certainly not into that, but I'm not going to judge you if that's your thing. And like I said, people still do eat squirrel in certain parts of the United States today.

• 46:36Speaker 04

  I guess we can talk, I mean, we found a lot of extra fun stuff.

• 46:40Josh Clark?

  Well, well, let's talk about, so we were talking about how they're viewed in America. Depending on where you are in the world and depending on the squirrel you're talking about, they're actually, they can be viewed quite negatively. I remember in our rewilding episode, we talked about how Eastern gray squirrels are considered an invasive species in Italy, where they call them American killer squirrels. And there's also an issue with Eastern gray squirrels in Europe, where they've killed off most of the Eurasian red squirrels over there.

• 47:11Speaker 04

  That's true.

• 47:12Josh Clark?

  They've just outcompeted them. It's not like they've, you know, choked them or anything like that. They just, they're like almost twice as big, they're a lot more ornery, and they've just kind of diminished the, the number of Eurasian red squirrels in the UK. So much so that three quarters of the population lives in Scotland. And I would just like to direct everybody to the Scottish squirrels website. Go to Scottish squirrels.org.uk, and this is very important, slash about. And on their about page, the header image is maybe the cutest squirrel you'll ever see in your entire life.

• 47:50Speaker 04

  Is that the one you sent me and Jerry?

• 47:52Josh Clark?

  Yes. Isn't that the cutest squirrel ever?

• 47:57Speaker 04

  It's pretty cute. You also sent something else. If you go to rspca.org.uk/advicinwelfare/wildlife/hamels/graysquirrels/feeding,

• 48:10Speaker 04

  or you could just Google feeding squirrels and using nest boxes. You're going to see a squirrel with a chicken wing in its mouth. That's pretty cute, too.

• 48:18Josh Clark?

  It's better than a bass eating a squirrel, I'll tell you that.

• 48:21Speaker 04

  Uh, yeah, that's a good article you sent because it talks about if you like squirrels around, which I certainly do, creating a good habitat for them. Trees, obviously, is a good thing to have. Not cutting down trees is a great thing to do if you can avoid it.

• 48:35Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 48:35Speaker 04

  Uh, and then having squirrel-safe bird feeders. Uh, and this means not that the squirrels can't get to that seed because they, as you have attested, they will find a way, life finds a way.

• 48:46Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 48:46Speaker 04

  Uh, but it don't, won't trap the squirrel inside of it.

• 48:50Josh Clark?

  No, um, that's, that's a big one, too. They also kind of get into, um, they get all Macbeth or Hamlet. Which one was to be or not to be?

• 49:00Speaker 04

  Why are you asking me this and putting me on this?

• 49:01Josh Clark?

  Because they get all Hamlet or Macbeth on whether or not to, um, feed squirrels. There you go. Um, so they're, they're like, you could feed squirrels, but really you shouldn't. And the RSPCA takes, I think, a pretty sensible tact, which is build a habitat for the squirrels in that you're planting the right kind of trees that provide a place for them to nest and a place for them to get food. And then just step back and enjoy them.

• 49:26Speaker 04

  That should be enough.

• 49:27Josh Clark?

  If you're like, you know, me and Moe, and you go on walks or whatever, and you want to feed the squirrels, there are some things that are better for squirrels than others. And it's basically, you want to give them what they would naturally eat, um, which is masked, uh, unshelled nuts, like walnuts, chestnuts, acorns, hazelnuts, that kind of thing.

• 49:46Speaker 04

  Safflower seeds, probably, huh?

• 49:48Josh Clark?

  Yes, but not black safflower seeds. I saw that if you were one of those people who can't stand squirrels raiding your, um, bird feeder, black safflower seeds are, they'll eat them, but they're not crazy about them. And the most birds like them instead, so that's one way to do it. But you can also feed them vegetables, too. And Chuck, they included this little tip that I didn't realize, but if you, if you're feeding squirrels or leaving food out for squirrels in your yard, and you have a garden that you care about, you don't really want the squirrel taking the food and then burying it elsewhere. So they said if you're going to feed them fruits and vegetables, shred it. Because the, the squirrel's just going to eat it there, it's not going to try to bury it. I thought that was smart.

• 50:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, and if you have the nuts, don't give them, uh, like honey roasted. Almonds, like unsweetened, unsalted stuff. Uh, I have set up, you know, I have a camp cam at the family camp.

• 50:38Josh Clark?

  Mm hmm.

• 50:39Speaker 04

  Uh, trail cam and it's, uh, it's keyed in on my deer feeder that I got, uh, which is corn. And I've seen one deer, but almost every night I have scores of raccoons.

• 50:51Josh Clark?

  Nice.

• 50:51Speaker 04

  And almost every day, well, every day I have squirrels, crows, and now daily, uh, turkeys visiting.

• 50:59Josh Clark?

  Oh, neat.

• 51:00Speaker 04

  Lots and lots of turkeys. So, uh, I don't care that the deer aren't visiting. It's, uh, all kinds of animals are coming around. It's always fun to watch on the camp cam.

• 51:08Josh Clark?

  That is very cool. Um, one thing you want to be careful with, with peanuts too, is giving them raw peanuts because peanuts can carry, um, an aflatoxin, which is very, it's not good. It's not good for squirrels. It's not good for humans either. It's a type of, uh, fungus, I think, that actually is not only carcinogen, uh, carcinogens, it can actually like just kill you on, on, on the spot, neurologically speaking. Um, so it's, you actually want roasted peanuts, but not salted or anything like that. So raw, like plain roasted peanuts. Or what's even better, because it helps with their teeth are mastnuts, again, like pecans, walnuts, that kind of stuff.

• 51:49Josh Clark?

  But a lot of people say, don't feed squirrels because you're actually, what you're doing is, as we've seen, if squirrels know that there's a lot of food, they're going to mate, mate, mate, mate, mate. And there's going to be a lot of squirrels and they're going to become dependent on that additional food supply.

• 52:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:03Josh Clark?

  Um, and they might start showing up at your neighbor's house. They might start burrowing into your attic. There's just a lot of, there's a lot of things that to, to take into consideration, I guess.

• 52:14Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, the family camp, there's nothing but wood. So I hope we get overrun.

• 52:19Josh Clark?

  So I agree with you. So you found a couple of cool things, um, including why squirrels like seem to dash in front of your car when you're driving, right?

• 52:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, so and again, I love that we've just finally found answers for this stuff because this is kind of a fun, non-obnoxious fact to jump on, to drop on someone. If you're driving around a neighborhood and the squirrel does that thing and people go, why do squirrels do that? We can say, well, it's actually an evolutionary instinct to get away from a predator. So if you run out and you initially freeze when there's a predator, the predator is sort of like a football player waiting for the defensive player to make their move. And then you go the opposite way with a little juke. And that's what the squirrel's doing. They go out, they freeze when they see that car. And if it was a predator, they would wait on the predator to sort of make a move.

• 53:13Speaker 04

  And then they can quickly go in a direction that is, really comes in handy when it's a predator, when it's a car that's going, you know, generally in a big hulking, straight line.

• 53:22Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 53:22Speaker 04

  Uh, it's not the same thing, but a squirrel has a squirrel brain and it doesn't realize that. So that's why a squirrel will jump out in a street, see a car and just stop. They're not dumb. They're waiting on you to make some hawk-like move, which doesn't happen in the car. So what you do is you just slow down and check your rearview mirror. Don't slam on the brakes or anything, but you know, they're everywhere. And I've hit, I think maybe two squirrels in my adult life. So it's not like the most common thing to run over a squirrel.

• 53:55Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I ran over one once and my brother-in-law said that he was on his way to buy a birthday present for his young kid who was waiting forever for their dad to come back for this birthday present for his party. It was not helpful.

• 54:10Speaker 04

  Uh, and what about these black squirrels? Uh, Emily and I were taking a walk through Brooklyn one day and saw a black, black, black squirrel, not just a hint of black. And it was the coolest thing I've ever seen. And I've since seen a few more here and there in New York. And we have the answer there too, right?

• 54:29Josh Clark?

  Yes, they seem to be, so they, they used to think that they were freaks of nature. I think as one naturalist put it like years and years ago, and somebody said, I don't know if that's true. I think these actually might have been the dominant version. They, they seem to be closely related to eastern grays, if not just a type of eastern gray, like a different breed of that species. But they, they were saying they used to possibly be the dominant version and then they got edged out by the eastern gray. And so they're, they're, they're there, they're just kind of infrequently, they infrequently appear, but there are parts of North America where they seem to populate more than others,

• 55:11Josh Clark?

  like New York, you mean, I used to see them in DC, Toronto, they're all over Toronto, and Ontario in general, from what I understand. So it seems like, from what I could tell, that they think that they're, they were there already and now we're just kind of seeing them in like this kind of moment in time where their numbers have diminished tremendously, where if we went back in time, we might see a lot more. Is that, does that seem accurate?

• 55:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, it's just genetics. It's a recessive gene that causes an abnormal pigmentation and you will, you know, you're, you're only going to get more of that recessive gene if these squirrels or any, you know, creature is reproducing in a, in a smaller area. So if you've got a contained population, like let's say, an island, like New York, or apparently Roosevelt Island has a lot of them.

• 56:02Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 56:03Speaker 04

  You're just going to see more of them. So DC is a little, not inexplicable, but it makes more sense in New York because you're just going to get more, you know, more of this recessive gene happening in a smaller area.

• 56:18Josh Clark?

  So not at all my explanation, then?

• 56:20Speaker 04

  No, it's your explanation. No, you nailed it. And this was an article, "The Mysterious Black Squirrels of NYC," from what turns out to be a really good website called untappedcities.com and writer Michelle Young. It's, it's a really cool read.

• 56:35Josh Clark?

  Um, yeah. So you got anything else on squirrels?

• 56:39Speaker 04

  Nothing. And hug a squirrel, embrace a squirrel.

• 56:42Josh Clark?

  But, but don't do that. Don't, and if you do feed them, don't, don't let them eat out of your hand.

• 56:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 56:47Josh Clark?

  Because they'll bite you. Even though they're grateful, they're still bitey. And since I said that, everybody, it's time for listener mail.

• 56:59Speaker 04

  That's right. And it's a great listener mail because we get to say hello to a kindergarten class, which is always fun.

• 57:06Josh Clark?

  Hello.

• 57:08Speaker 04

  Hi, Mr. Chuck and Mr. Josh. My name is Katie. It's either Fink or Finkie. And I'm emailing with my kindergarten class in Baltimore City. We sometimes listen to your show and we were so excited when you heard you mention the three sisters in the recent watermelon episode. We actually spent a whole weekend learning about the three sisters this fall and wanted to share with you our excitement. We hope you do a short stuff on them soon. We definitely will. If you need some three sisters experts who want to tell you these facts that we learned this year.

• 57:39Josh Clark?

  Oh, yes.

• 57:40Speaker 04

  And here's a little short list. Native Americans would plant fish first in the ground to prepare the soil and make it healthy and rich. Love that. The corn grows so tall it holds up the beans and the squash keeps the soil moist. So the other two sisters have enough water to stay hydrated. And finally, all three of the sisters are dried so that people can save them to eat later in the winter, which is a great benefit. So we really wanted to share our knowledge in case you do a short stuff. Thanks for reading. Love, Miss Finkies or Miss Finks kindergarten class. And like I said, this is in Baltimore City.

• 58:19Josh Clark?

  Man, that's really impressive. Like, I remember in kindergarten, I was learning red, red, red. I wasn't learning about the three sisters and ground covers, like keeping the moisture in place for the other two. I mean, come on, that's really impressive.

• 58:39Speaker 04

  This week, red.

• 58:42Josh Clark?

  I think it was more like that month.

• 58:44Speaker 04

  Yeah. February is red month. Oh, that's great.

• 58:48Josh Clark?

  Well, thank you, Miss Fink or Finkies class. Hats off to you guys. Keep it up. And yes, we will definitely do a three sisters episode someday dedicated to you guys. Right, Chuck?

• 58:59Speaker 04

  For sure.

• 59:01Josh Clark?

  If you want to get in touch with us, you can too via email at [email protected].

• 59:10Speaker 09

  Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 59:25Josh Clark?

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  Hosted by Andrew Stratton, these perspectives highlight that life is more than a moment, a condition, or a tough day. Living with a rare disease can be challenging, but it does not define the Voices of Vivgard. In these episodes, they share their stories, from diagnosis to working with their care team on their treatment plan. Listen to Voices of Vivgard on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everybody, I am here to talk to you about Dude Wipes, who offer fragrance-free wipes that are made with 99% water and plant-based ingredients. So they're gentle enough for sensitive skin, but they're tough enough for even the worst messes. Water cleans better and Dude Wipes flushable wipes deliver textbook freshness and ultimate clean.

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