Short Stuff: Can You Not Have A Name?

Is it legal to live without a name? Is it even possible? Find out today in this episode. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Josh Clark?

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• 0:39Josh Clark?

  Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, setting the tempo. And this is stuff you should know, short stuff.

• 0:47Speaker 02

  That's right. Like, I guess you could have said, there's mm and I'm mm and there's mm.

• 0:52Josh Clark?

  I wish I had now. Maybe we should retake the whole thing.

• 0:55Speaker 02

  Nah.

• 0:56Josh Clark?

  We're too far in now?

• 0:57Speaker 02

  A dumb joke because what we're talking about is naming and specifically sort of like the, the rules and laws about naming somebody and having a name and if you need a name legally.

• 1:10Josh Clark?

  This is so in our wheelhouse, man. We've been talking about this stuff since basically day one of stuff you should know.

• 1:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, this seemed familiar enough to where I thought we might've done it.

• 1:19Josh Clark?

  No, we haven't done this particularly, but we've talked about, I think in some of like our videos, maybe about people who gave their kids weird names. Like, I will never forget, yeah, Detroit. You remember?

• 1:31Speaker 02

  I forgot about that, yeah.

• 1:33Josh Clark?

  But what we're talking about today is-

• 1:34Speaker 02

  Which was a name, by the way.

• 1:36Josh Clark?

  Yeah, somebody tried to name their kid, yeah, Detroit. One word. And there might've been an exclamation point. I don't remember.

• 1:43Speaker 02

  You gotta have one.

• 1:44Josh Clark?

  The best name, or at least attempted name I've ever heard.

• 1:47Speaker 02

  Or maybe an interrobang.

• 1:49Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Yeah. So we're talking about something a little more specific today, though. We're talking about can you live without a name? Is it, is it something you could possibly do? And the short answer is no. The bigger answer is even more interesting than just being told no.

• 2:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's not illegal to not have a name, but try getting through life without a name. It's going to be a big pain. So like getting a-

• 2:13Josh Clark?

  We dare you.

• 2:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, get it, getting a job, getting a driver's license. Just almost anything that you do these days might require some form of identification. And if you don't have a name- It's gonna make it challenging.

• 2:25Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I mean, like, you just could not make it through life, at least in the United States and most other countries, probably just about any country.

• 2:35Josh Clark?

  Because you just, like, no one can say you're you. That's how we, that's how we do it. That's the first way we do it is with a name. I think when you're named, even before you're named, even before you get your social security number, you have your name, that's how you're identified. That's how they keep up with you, who's who at the hospital even.

• 2:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can change your name and, you know, depending on your state, there's different ways you can go about that. You can, you can just start using a different name and even without making it like the official legal way, like on formal documents even. Emily changed her spelling of her name and was, it was just unofficial for many, many years until she finally had it officially changed, which is interesting.

• 3:16Josh Clark?

  Nice.

• 3:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, she went from Y to IE.

• 3:19Josh Clark?

  I always loved the IE on the end of her name. I thought that was a nice touch. I didn't realize it was her own choosing, so, man.

• 3:25Speaker 02

  Like a teenager thing.

• 3:26Josh Clark?

  She keeps getting better and better, you know?

• 3:28Speaker 02

  I think so too. Well, she's in her 50s.

• 3:31Josh Clark?

  So, there are some rules. I should say, not everybody has rules. Usually, in the United States at least, the laws about what you can or can't name your kid are, it's by the states. And there's at least a dozen states that don't have any laws. They're basically like, you can name your kid whatever you want.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  Hmm, okay.

• 3:53Josh Clark?

  But plenty of other states do have laws. One of the big ones that you'll find, not just among the states that have laws about what you can name your kid, but also internationally, is that you can't name your kid a number. Although, there is a workaround, you could spell out that number. So, you can't do the number three, but you could name your kid T H R E E.

• 4:15Speaker 02

  Right. Or you could name your kid Plan Nine, but you'd have to spell out nine.

• 4:20Josh Clark?

  Yes. Would you do it all one word or two words?

• 4:24Speaker 02

  Plan Nine Bryant. I think that'd be pretty fun, it's one word.

• 4:27Josh Clark?

  It's a, that's a great name, man.

• 4:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:30Josh Clark?

  What else? You can't use vulgar words.

• 4:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:34Josh Clark?

  Makes sense.

• 4:35Speaker 02

  Can't be Jesus Christ, or, what, Adolf Hitler's on the list too, right?

• 4:40Josh Clark?

  Yep, same with Santa Claus in some places.

• 4:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:42Josh Clark?

  Nutella is another one.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  Nutella?

• 4:45Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 4:45Speaker 02

  That's funny.

• 4:46Josh Clark?

  Is it Nutella? I always say Nutella.

• 4:48Speaker 02

  I've always said Nutella, but it probably is Nutella.

• 4:51Josh Clark?

  I don't know. Who's to say who's right in this topsy-turvy world?

• 4:56Speaker 02

  Any kind of racial slur you can't use, or if it's a name intentionally used to commit fraud, like to get out of a debt or something like that, you can't change your name for that reason.

• 5:09Josh Clark?

  But I mean, would you be dumb enough to go and change your name and tell the

• 5:13Speaker 02

  Probably not.

• 5:14Josh Clark?

  The people at the Vital Records like, "Yeah, I'm doing this because I owe a lot of money."

• 5:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:19Josh Clark?

  Emojis are out pretty much across the board.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  Oh, good.

• 5:24Josh Clark?

  And that's the United States, and you're like, "Well, it's kind of strict." If you do think that that's kind of strict, but around the world, it can be even stricter. Like Portugal is very strict. Not only do they have some serious naming laws, there's a list of approved names that you have to select from. I think Iceland and Denmark also have similar lists, and in Portugal, it has to be what they consider gender-appropriate.

• 5:49Speaker 02

  Oh, interesting. Still.

• 5:51Josh Clark?

  And they will kick your door down if you try anything different.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 5:55Josh Clark?

  Yeah, Portugal's hardcore about naming.

• 5:58Speaker 02

  Maybe we should take a break, and we'll talk a little bit more about naming that baby. Ready for this?

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• 8:34Speaker 02

  All right, so in the United States, when a birth happens, the parents are legally obligated at some point in time to register that birth with a government entity, Vital Records Department, or Department of Health and Human Services, something like that. And every country has a version of something like that. And on that form, you've got to fill out the name, but it depends on what state you're in as far as like how long you have to decide that. You don't have to name your baby before you leave the hospital.

• 9:03Josh Clark?

  No, that's a pretty common misconception, at least according to Kristin Conger, who hats off, wrote this one originally from How It Works.

• 9:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, former colleague Kristin Conger and host and founder of Unladylike, a great podcast.

• 9:16Josh Clark?

  That's right. So Conger points something out that I thought was pretty smart, that if you do leave the hospital when your baby unnamed, because that's got to be a lot of pressure.

• 9:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. If you don't have it done beforehand, you don't want to just be thinking of it like right after you give birth.

• 9:32Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Yes, exactly. Especially if you weren't aware you're pregnant and this was a surprise birth. You need a little time, right?

• 9:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:40Josh Clark?

  The hospital's still going to be like, we need to be able to keep up with that baby so that baby goes home with you. So they might name it something like Baby Girl Smith, if your name is Jane Smith. But there was a study that was conducted, probably the most obvious study I've ever heard, that was like, if you actually use something a little more specific, like say this is Jane Smith's daughter, you would name it Jane's Girl Smith.

• 10:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:06Josh Clark?

  You're probably going to have fewer mix-ups at the hospital, which is just alarming that anybody even needs to study that because that even happens.

• 10:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. If you do wait and you haven't decided in the hospital, and you decide, like, let's say, the state you live in lets you like wait a few months or whatever. It depends on that state, again, on the procedure for adding that in. Like in California is the one Kristin mentions, you have to fill out a supplemental name report with the Health Department and fill that in and say, all right, now we have our baby's name. And they're like, great, now you can get your birth certificate.

• 10:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And you're like, what do you think? Do you think it's a good name? It's a pretty good name, huh?

• 10:43Speaker 02

  Pretty good name. And I think you have a year in California, so again, it varies.

• 10:47Josh Clark?

  Yes, um, I did not realize this, but the United Nations has a pretty stern stance on kids' names. In particular, in the Convention on the Rights of a Child, they said that all children have a right from birth to a name. There's an asterisk next to that. They said, if you ever find yourself in a highly stressful bird box type situation, you can just name your kid boy or girl. But other than that, that kid deserves a name.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  I didn't see that. But that was the Sandra Bullock thing that

• 11:19Josh Clark?

  It's excellent.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  Caught the world by storm during COVID, right?

• 11:23Josh Clark?

  Yes, it's really good.

• 11:24Speaker 02

  Okay, I haven't seen it.

• 11:26Josh Clark?

  You should check it out.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  All right. I'll dust that one off.

• 11:29Josh Clark?

  Yes. Um, so Chuck, let's move on to a little extra, what we call a line yap, if we wanted to sound really obnoxious, on middle names.

• 11:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, middle names haven't always been a thing. I think the, the modern idea of a middle name started in the Middle Ages, it seems like, but it was pretty specific back then. They would just give the first name on, you know, whatever they, they wanted to personalize it. But then the middle name would be a saint's name and then a surname. But then that eventually fell out of favor over time to where, uh, non-religious middle names became a thing.

• 12:06Josh Clark?

  Yeah, a lot of times it was the mother's maiden name, her family name. Uh, it could just be like the parents were like, I really like McGillicuddy, so that's your middle name.

• 12:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:16Josh Clark?

  And it just kind of picked up, um, by, I think, World War I was the first time where the US government at least officially recognized the existence of middle names when the enlistment forms for the military asked for a middle name.

• 12:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:31Josh Clark?

  And within, uh, I don't know, a couple of decades, a handful of decades, as computers started to be used for documentation of, of individuals, like tracking people, big brother type stuff. Um, they were programmed for three names, first, middle, last. And what would happen, Chuck, if you did not have a middle name?

• 12:52Speaker 02

  Uh, if you don't enter that, um, they would insert NMI, no middle initial. Uh, because not everyone has a middle name and some people have, um, many. I know that, uh, my friend Justin from England. Uh, he is, uh, one, two, hmm, hmm, he is three.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  Two middle names. So...

• 13:16Josh Clark?

  Is he a bearing or something?

• 13:17Speaker 02

  Three names and a surname. No, it's just, I think it's more common in the UK to do something like that. So he's Justin Neil Alexander Stewart. So two middle names, one first name, and his surname.

• 13:28Josh Clark?

  Very nice.

• 13:29Speaker 02

  And his social security number is?

• 13:33Josh Clark?

  You got anything else?

• 13:34Speaker 02

  I got nothing else.

• 13:36Josh Clark?

  I don't either. I guess that means short stuff is out.

• 13:43Speaker 06

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