Popcorn: Who doesn't love it?

We love popcorn and suspect that most people do too. But do you know why it even pops? Or if it's healthy? See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Josh Clark?

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• 1:03Speaker 03

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio.

• 1:13Josh Clark?

  Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's here, too, and this is Stuff You Should Know.

• 1:18Speaker 02

  That's right. Popcorn, the snack dish, and I want to shout out listener Sean O'Sullivan. He came up with this idea, sent it along, and I'm trying to get better about crediting people when they send great ideas that we use.

• 1:33Josh Clark?

  Oh, that's, that's a great New Year's resolution, Chuck.

• 1:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, which reminds me, I need to do a pickup for Cliff's Notes because I did not credit Mike D. of Overland Park, Kansas, or maybe that'll suffice.

• 1:45Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it might. We'll have to ask Mike D.

• 1:47Speaker 02

  Okay, and he'll, you know what he'll say?

• 1:50Josh Clark?

  He'll say the Mike stands for money and the D is for diamond.

• 1:53Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:54Josh Clark?

  Was that exactly what you were gonna say?

• 1:56Speaker 02

  No, but that's, that was better, so.

• 1:58Josh Clark?

  Okay. So yeah, we're talking popcorn today and Chuck, there's a lot, a lot to talk about with popcorn. Who helped us with this? Was it Anna?

• 2:08Speaker 02

  This is Anna Green.

• 2:09Josh Clark?

  Very nice. So if you don't know what popcorn is, well, wait a second, you go ahead and Google popcorn and then come back. I'm pretty sure most people know what popcorn is because it's a global sensation. But I have to say, I'm quite proud that popcorn is through and through, American. And not just the United States version of American, Mexico, Central America, South America, Canada.

• 2:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:38Josh Clark?

  We'll include Canada, sure.

• 2:39Speaker 02

  They love it.

• 2:40Josh Clark?

  American in that sense, that is popcorn through and through, even still today. Most of the popcorn in the world comes from the Americas.

• 2:48Speaker 02

  That's right. And we should talk a little bit about corn because popcorn is just a variety of corn. There are all kinds of varieties of corn and popcorn is the Iverta variety. And if you are corn, you have three main things. You have a hull, maybe they might call it a pericarp or maybe even the bran.

• 3:09Josh Clark?

  I like calling it the bran.

• 3:10Speaker 02

  The bran and inside that hull, you've got the germ and the endosperm.

• 3:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 3:14Speaker 02

  And popcorn specific hull, that outer shell that has that stuff inside of it. That is the main thing that makes it poppable corn. And that's what makes it different than other kinds of corn because popcorn has a really hard, hard outer shell. Much harder than other varieties of corn.

• 3:31Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 3:31Speaker 02

  And inside that hull, there's a much higher ratio of hard starch to soft starch. And all that sounds well and good, but a little tidbit I never ever knew until this episode was like, What is making that stuff pop? And it's very simple, right?

• 3:48Josh Clark?

  It is. It's awesome. It's a little tiny bit of water.

• 3:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:52Josh Clark?

  Apparently, anything less than 13% water inside the popcorn kernel is not good enough.

• 3:59Speaker 02

  I think you mean the hull.

• 4:01Josh Clark?

  Yes, you're right. Sorry.

• 4:02Speaker 02

  Or the bran, as you like to say.

• 4:03Josh Clark?

  The bran, yeah. Bran to me is like mast. It's like one of those homey words. I love it. The sweet spot is between 13 and 20% water content inside the bran. And when you heat that, because the bran is non-porous, that steam that gets generated gets trapped inside. Well, as we all know, when steam expands, it really expands. And it expands so much that it blows, it blows the popcorn inside out.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that, what you're eating, the white styrofoamy deliciousness that you're eating, that is the starch while you're heating that kernel up. I'm sorry, that hull. I guess it's a kernel too. And that water is turning into steam and expanding. The consistency of that starch is changing, becoming more pliable, AKA edible. And you're eating that interior starch and you can still, you know, that little thing that gets stuck in your teeth, that's the last bit of that hull that has exploded. And like you said, anything like when you get that unpopped stuff at the bottom and you're like, what was your problem? Why didn't you do what you were told?

• 5:15Josh Clark?

  They say, I had less than 13% moisture.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  Exactly. That's probably the case. It also could be the case where that hull was fractured or something was wrong with that hull.

• 5:25Josh Clark?

  Yeah, something's wrong with it. It ain't right.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:28Josh Clark?

  And so you're like, okay, well, why doesn't rice pop, suckers? Why doesn't wheat pop, smart guys? Well, it turns out it's because they have porous holes. So steam will come out of them. It won't build up pressure inside like it does popcorn. So popcorn is a very unique, darling, peculiar little thing that everybody loves. I know. Don't even come at us like you don't love popcorn. Everyone loves popcorn. Sorry.

• 5:53Speaker 02

  Agreed. And we're going to get some yum yuckers that are going to say they hate popcorn.

• 5:58Josh Clark?

  I just don't get it.

• 6:00Speaker 02

  I don't get it either. There's a guy named Andrew Smith and he's a popcorn aficionado. And popped culture, pretty, pretty great name for something on the internet.

• 6:13Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 6:13Speaker 02

  He has gone through and shared popcorn varieties that were sold in the early, I guess, 20th century, between 1901 and 1902. He said, "Some of these may be different names, you know, like the same thing that was named different by whoever was growing it." But they had some pretty fun names, like Tom Thumb, Popcorn, or Tattooed Yankee. But popcorn wasn't sold commercially at scale like that. Maybe, maybe a couple of varieties were, but there seemed to be a lot more sort of local varieties that people could grow and just sell kind of locally. But again, it's not branded or anything at this point. You're just buying it by like the scoop or the bag.

• 6:53Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it was all popcorn. It was just a generic term for popcorn. It was all called popcorn. But I think in the mid 19th century or later 19th century, companies started to come along and basically branded their own version. And there was even a mascot in the 1870s called Colonel Pop. Love that one. I couldn't find a picture of him, could you?

• 7:14Speaker 02

  Uh, no, but that's because I did not look.

• 7:18Josh Clark?

  Same here.

• 7:20Josh Clark?

  And there's actually a popcorn company from not too far after Colonel Pop was developed, 1914, called the American Popcorn Company, and they're the people who make Jolly Time popcorn. And if you've never made Jolly Time popcorn, you should just do it. Just go buy one of those little foil things that has all the stuff you need to pop the corn in it. And as it pops, like the foil expands, it's just such a great little thing. Word of advice, though, I learned this the hard way, don't do it on a ceramic cooktop. It's really, really bad for the ceramic cooktop. Oh, wait, I'm talking about Jiffy Pop. Jolly Time comes in the bags.

• 8:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:02Josh Clark?

  Still, you should try Jiffy Pop.

• 8:04Speaker 02

  Uh, I guess, I mean, before we go further, I'm curious of how you, how do you pop your popcorn?

• 8:11Josh Clark?

  You know, I don't very much. We have like a stir crazy. I don't remember who makes it, but it's like the, the, the big like black, heavy bottom with like a thing that spins around slowly on it. So that it stirs your, your popcorn, apparently in a crazy way. And then it pop, pop, pops.

• 8:32Speaker 02

  But it's mechanical?

• 8:33Josh Clark?

  A transparent. Well, there's a hamster that runs the whole thing. I guess technically it's mechanical energy. But there's like a transparent yellow bowl that keeps it from popping out and then you just turn it upside down.

• 8:44Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah.

• 8:44Josh Clark?

  And then you have your bowl of popcorn right there.

• 8:47Speaker 02

  So you got the old school sort of, um, you plug it in and it turns the little stirring thing.

• 8:52Josh Clark?

  Yeah, but weirdly we got it in the last few years. We tried air popping for a while and that's just like punishment.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  Garbage. Uh, I use a whirlipop. That is the stove top thing. Uh, that you put, you know, on, on, on your stove. I have a gas stove, so it's cooking with gas and you, you hand crank that thing and it stirs it around.

• 9:12Josh Clark?

  You need a hamster.

• 9:13Speaker 02

  I do. Uh, those are like 70 bucks. So, um, you know, not cheap, but not expensive. There's also uh, more expensive brands like that, that are like a couple of hundred bucks, like the Popsmith.

• 9:25Josh Clark?

  Uh huh.

• 9:26Speaker 02

  Uh, but the, the whole point is you're cooking it on your stove top and you're turning it yourself.

• 9:30Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 9:30Speaker 02

  Uh, and that's how I like to do it. I use the, um, the, you know, the, that yellow oil that's got the butter flavor in it. And, um, I just do a little bit of that popcorn salt because I, I love salt, but, um, that stuff is super salty and goes a long way.

• 9:47Josh Clark?

  I saw, yeah, for sure. There's a specific kind called Flava call. And that's what the movie theaters use and it's designed to dissolve in oil and get in every part of a popcorn, pop popcorn. I can't remember. I saw the name for what, oh, flake. That's what a pop popcorn is called. Did you know that?

• 10:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:08Josh Clark?

  I did not know that. Well, at any rate, it's meant to get in every crevice and nook and cranny of a popped flake. And yeah, I would guess it doesn't take very much of that stuff.

• 10:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. And we don't pop popcorn a lot. Like, we should do it for every single family movie night. Because there's really no reason not to. But, you know, Ruby loves it, the family loves it. So I'm gonna start popping more popcorn. But, let's go back to-

• 10:32Josh Clark?

  Wait, wait, I'm not quite done. I should say, like, more often than not, it's microwave popcorn that we-

• 10:38Speaker 02

  Oh. Sorry. I'm judging you.

• 10:42Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it's all right. I can take it.

• 10:44Speaker 02

  I just don't like it.

• 10:46Josh Clark?

  What about Smart Food? I like that stuff, too.

• 10:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, bagged popcorn, that's a whole other game. But a huge industry.

• 10:52Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Remember, it used to be on our, what do they call it?

• 10:55Speaker 02

  Our rider.

• 10:56Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Like, you had to give us Smart Pop popcorn backstage at our shows.

• 11:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a good snack. Low calorie, filling.

• 11:03Josh Clark?

  For sure. And cheesy.

• 11:04Speaker 02

  Pleasing to the tongue. Let's go back a little bit, though, and talk about cultivation, because if you look at, you know, indigenous Americans before Europeans came along and wrecked everything, they were farming popcorn in South and Central America mainly. In North America, where it was farmed, it was in the southwest and of the United States and Mexico, or I guess most of that was Mexico at the time. But when non-indigenous Americans, you know, white Europeans came here, they started farming popcorn in New England.

• 11:38Josh Clark?

  That was a surprise.

• 11:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, through most of the 19th century, that was sort of the center of popcorn, I guess, growing and manufacturing, until eventually it moved to the Midwest and Chicago became the hub of popcorn.

• 11:53Josh Clark?

  Yes, which explains why Chicago is a caramel corn town. And despite the fact that people in Chicago won't admit it, Chicago is a caramel corn town.

• 12:03Speaker 02

  But most of the popcorn these days in that comes from the United States, well, not most, but 25% of the popcorn popped in the US is grown in Nebraska. It should be no surprise, but also grown in places like Kansas, Michigan, Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio, Missouri, Illinois, and Iowa.

• 12:24Josh Clark?

  Yeah, apparently also Brazil and Argentina grow a lot of it, too.

• 12:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:30Josh Clark?

  Okay, so Chuck, a big question is whether popcorn's healthy. And the answer is a resounding yes if you just air pop popcorn and only eat popcorn undressed in anything and not cooked in oil.

• 12:44Speaker 02

  That's right, but what kind of serial killer does that?

• 12:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is. It's it's low in calorie. Like I said, it's a really good source of fiber.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  It's 100% whole grain. And if you eat, one serving is three cups of popped corn. If you eat three cups of popcorn, that's about 15% of your daily recommended fiber intake. So if you double that, you're getting 30%.

• 13:09Josh Clark?

  I saw, so I was like, there's got to be something wrong with popcorn. I searched dark side of popcorn. And the best I could come up with is that it's, there's enough fiber in it that if you have irritable bowel syndrome, you need to be careful of your popcorn intake. That's the worst thing anyone has to say about popcorn.

• 13:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can also get about three grams of protein per serving, 18 grams of carbs, one gram of fat. You can get vitamin B6, A, E, K, riboflavin, biamine, niacin, folate. So it's it's pretty good for you.

• 13:42Speaker 02

  The nutritional values are going to shift some when you cook it in oil and add toppings and butter flavored stuff, but it's not like it destroys the nutritional value. The fiber's still in there, right?

• 13:53Josh Clark?

  Yeah, for sure. It just makes it less healthy. You know, you've got all the problems that you have for eating butter and not just eating butter, but liquid butter. Wow. You want to talk about where popcorn came from? Because I do.

• 14:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 14:07Josh Clark?

  So like I said, popcorn is indigenous to the Americas and that's because corn is indigenous to the Americas. As far as we can tell, especially if you read 1492, corn was domesticated from the wild teasinti plant as far back as 9,000 years ago. And the whole thing began in Mexico and it was such a good idea that it spread throughout Central and South America, right?

• 14:33Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 14:33Josh Clark?

  Popcorn itself is not that much younger, maybe about 2,500 years or so?

• 14:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, 6,700 years ago, there was popcorn. We just, you know, don't know exactly when people started eating it.

• 14:50Josh Clark?

  Right, but we do have archaeological evidence. I think people have found popcorn buried with people in like South America. And I think there was one burial in Peru, maybe where the burial was 1,000 years old, but the popcorn was still viable, like you could have popped it. Imagine eating 1,000 year old funeral burial popcorn. That would really be something.

• 15:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's probably on some fancy menu somewhere in a fancy restaurant.

• 15:20Josh Clark?

  Yeah, one of those underground restaurants for riches where they eat people.

• 15:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, where they eat ancient foods.

• 15:26Josh Clark?

  And people.

• 15:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, disguised as tasty.

• 15:32Speaker 02

  There is written documentation. I believe the first written documentation of popcorn comes from when the Europeans came over again to the Americas. There was a missionary in the 16th century named Bernardino de Sahagun.

• 15:47Josh Clark?

  He was not Italian.

• 15:49Speaker 02

  Really?

• 15:50Josh Clark?

  No.

• 15:50Speaker 02

  And he claimed Aztecs were wearing popcorn garlands. So it was already being used as sort of a decorative.

• 15:56Josh Clark?

  And they called it momochito.

• 15:58Speaker 02

  Okay. And there was a 17th century missionary name. I'm not even going to try. His last name was Kobo. I can say that one. And he saw Peruvians toasting a quote, a certain kind of corn until it burst, clearly popcorn.

• 16:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah, they called it pincincola.

• 16:15Speaker 02

  Cool.

• 16:17Josh Clark?

  That's all I got.

• 16:18Speaker 02

  Good stuff.

• 16:19Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so yes, they were, they were, these guys were witnessing popcorn and you would think like, oh, okay, well, it would immediately become a big deal everywhere. That's not necessarily the case, despite there being a legend that popcorn was introduced to the pilgrims at the first Thanksgiving. That seems to have been a 19th century invention, which is actually about the time that popcorn became a favored American snack in the United States.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, we should probably take a break and come back and talk about what happened from there, huh?

• 16:51Josh Clark?

  I think that's a great idea, Chuck.

• 16:53Speaker 02

  All right, we'll be right back.

• 17:08Speaker 04

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• 20:26Josh Clark?

  So Euro-Americans knew of popcorn long before they started eating it. It was just associated with Native Americans. It was a Native American thing. They loved their popcorn. But in the 19th century, as far back as the 1820s, people selling seeds started selling popcorn seeds. Kind of slowly but surely started to gain traction. Thoreau was a fan. He called popcorn a perfect winter flower, which seems like a myth to me. And in 1848 popcorn showed up in the debut edition of the Dictionary of Americanisms. And I was looking through that, Chuck, and "keep a stiff upper lip" was in there too, which I associate 100% with the UK,

• 21:10Josh Clark?

  but apparently that's American.

• 21:13Speaker 02

  Oh, I had never really thought about where that might have come from.

• 21:16Josh Clark?

  I always thought it was the UK, but I was wrong.

• 21:19Speaker 02

  Well, as far as popcorn goes, they used to make it in all kinds of crazy ways early on. Sometimes they would just throw it in a fire and wait for it to pop out, I guess, and eat it with a little ash on it.

• 21:30Josh Clark?

  Gross.

• 21:31Speaker 02

  Sometimes they would put like an iron, like a iron plank on a fire, like you might do steamed oysters or something if you're sitting by the beach these days.

• 21:42Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 21:42Speaker 02

  You've got some oysters and you throw a wet towel over those oysters with popcorn. You could just throw those kernels on that hot plate, stir them around, just like it was on your stove top, and wait for it to pop.

• 21:53Josh Clark?

  What's the towel for?

• 21:55Speaker 02

  The towel is for the oysters to steam them.

• 21:58Josh Clark?

  Oh, so you cover the oysters with the towel and it keeps the steam inside?

• 22:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, with a wet towel.

• 22:03Josh Clark?

  Gotcha, gotcha.

• 22:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, it creates that steam. So, but that's oysters. It's neither here nor there.

• 22:07Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  So a frying pan, obviously, is one way you could have popped it early on. But those things were really, really heavy to work with. They still are very heavy to work with as far as like holding one and shaking it over a hot fire. And before they had gas stoves, you know, you got to nail the popcorn heating temperature or else you're going to scorch it and it's not going to taste great or it's never going to pop. So until gas stoves came along, it was just harder.

• 22:31Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so it wasn't quite as popular. You know?

• 22:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:36Josh Clark?

  Although you can imagine there were some country women who had like a much bigger, stronger right arm from popping popcorn in an iron skillet.

• 22:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:43Josh Clark?

  Dead giveaway that they were a popcorn fan.

• 22:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:47Josh Clark?

  Uh, finally, in 1866, the first patent was issued for a popcorn popper. And it was essentially just like, you know, those old timey toast makers? There's like a, it's like a iron rod and it ends in like a mesh basket that you'd put the, the bread in and toast it.

• 23:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:04Josh Clark?

  Something like that, but the mesh was thin enough that it, the, the popcorn brand wouldn't fall out. When you're popping it and it would just go pop, pop, pop, pop. My feet can't stop.

• 23:15Speaker 02

  They still make those for camping, you know? You can still get those.

• 23:18Josh Clark?

  Okay, that makes sense. Well, that is the first patented popcorn popper that came on the market. And it was, I mean, still hard to do, but it was much lighter than holding an iron skillet over the fire until your popcorn popped.

• 23:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. At the very least, it's lighter and had a much longer handle.

• 23:35Josh Clark?

  Right. So people were like, okay, I can kind of get into this. And that's when it just started to, to take off.

• 23:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. So that was 1866, like you said. So in the 1870s, uh, if there was a public event, you were going to be able to buy popcorn there. Uh, anything that had a concession stand was going to be selling popcorn by that time. And in the 1890s, there was a guy named Charles, uh, C R E T O R S, Cretors, I guess. Um, in 1893, he, uh, was a confectionery shop owner in Ohio and he patented, uh, I guess the first sort of mobile portable popcorn machine, uh, that he adapted from a peanut roaster and, uh, of his own design. And all of a sudden you could have like a popcorn stand on a sidewalk and that became like a thing. People were buying popcorn because it was always pretty cheap.

• 24:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I looked at a picture. This is glorious. It's got like the big old penny farthing wheels on it. It's just, I would love to buy popcorn from it.

• 24:30Speaker 02

  You know why penny farthing, uh, farthing is called that?

• 24:32Josh Clark?

  No.

• 24:33Speaker 02

  Cause one wheel was relatively the size of a penny to the size of a farthing.

• 24:38Josh Clark?

  Oh, wow. That's neat. Is that kind of like that thing where like, uh, if Earth was the size of a, um, a pinhead, the sun would be the size of a basketball?

• 24:47Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 24:48Josh Clark?

  So this is the 19th century. I think we made it through, right?

• 24:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 24:53Josh Clark?

  Okay. So, um, by the 20th century, um, oh no, we haven't quite made it out of there because I think we would be remiss to not mention Cracker Jacks.

• 25:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, people in the late 19th century were into like sweet popcorn balls and making popcorn sweet and delicious.

• 25:12Josh Clark?

  So it was a dirty lie when you said that we made it out of the 19th century.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  So dirty. I mean, this was 1896. We were so close. But they were, they were eating sweet popcorn in the 1840s. I think Cracker Jack came along in 96.

• 25:24Josh Clark?

  Yes. So another thing that people put popcorn to use for, again, people are starting to get pretty crazy with, with this. Remember our live episode on the Kellogg brothers at the Battle Creek, Battle Creek Sanitarium? Before they started serving cereal there, John Harvey Kellogg's wife Ella Kellogg introduced popcorn as a cereal, a breakfast cereal with milk and a sweetener. And it was essentially the predecessor to the corn flakes and the bran flakes and everything that came after that. And in my opinion, it was the direct indirect predecessor of corn pops,

• 26:04Josh Clark?

  which are still around today, but they came out in 1950 and were one of my all time favorite cereals.

• 26:10Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. I was like, what is corn pops? Yeah, yeah. Corn pops. Yeah, she called it popcorn pudding. And there's a historian named Andrew Smith that was basically like popcorn may have been what cereal became if it hadn't have been for other grain manufacturers really getting super aggressive with the breakfast cereal companies being like, no, no, no, you want to use bran or oat or whatever.

• 26:31Josh Clark?

  Yeah, don't be stupid.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  Another thing you could use it for back then that I have recently used it for is for flour. You could grind popcorn into flour and I have had this pancake popcorn pancake mix in my house, which is pretty good and way better for you than pancakes.

• 26:51Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's gluten free, right? And it is good. You're not just saying that.

• 26:56Speaker 02

  No, it's pretty good.

• 26:56Josh Clark?

  Money on it. By God, you're gonna like it.

• 26:59Speaker 02

  I can't remember the name of the company, unfortunately, but you could, you can find that out pretty easily.

• 27:03Josh Clark?

  I saw a recipe for popcorn bread and I was like, wow, that sounds interesting. And if you look closely, there's like five other types of, of flour. It's just popcorn's just part of it.

• 27:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:14Josh Clark?

  I'd still eat it if somebody else made it, you know?

• 27:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:17Josh Clark?

  So we finally made it to the 20th century. And the reason the 20th century became such a big deal as far as popcorn goes is because that is when movies started to come out. At first, they were silent movies and then talkies and movie theaters started to open throughout the United States. And very quickly, people were like popcorn and movies go together really well. But it turns out the theater owners were the last ones to figure this out.

• 27:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, they were like, this stuff is a disaster of a mess. It's all over the floor and it still is. But they deal with it because they make a ton of money selling it. It was the depression coming along where theater owners were like, hey, wait a minute. People don't have a lot of money right now. Popcorn is very, very cheap. It's a very affordable snack. So they, people were selling popcorn outside of theaters that people could bring in, much like my mother did in the 1980s in her purse.

• 28:12Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  And they finally were like, hey, maybe we could lease lobby space to these popcorn vendors and just have them sell it in here. And then someone was like, wait a minute, what are we doing? We're doing this all wrong. We need to pop and sell this popcorn because the markup is incredible and we're just losing money. So they started, you know, it became hand in hand with theaters making profits from the concessions largely popcorn.

• 28:39Josh Clark?

  Yes. I mean, like a lot of money off of popcorn. There's a well trod story about a theater owner from during the depression named RJ McKenna, who found that popcorn was basically keeping his theater afloat during the depression. People didn't really have much money for a movie theater ticket, but if they did, they still had money enough for popcorn because it was a cheap snack. So RJ McKenna made the very wise business decision of lowering his ticket prices below what he would have made a profit on because he made so much money off of popcorn in the concession stands.

• 29:17Josh Clark?

  And I think the, like, the number that's bandied about is $200,000 from popcorn alone, which is more than $4.5 million today if that's in 1936 dollars.

• 29:31Josh Clark?

  From popcorn.

• 29:32Speaker 02

  Big, big profits.

• 29:33Josh Clark?

  Yeah, for sure. And he said a bit of a tradition, as we'll find out, that popcorn's still big profits.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, big time. During World War II, there were sugar shortages. So, sweet treats were on the Wayne, I guess, and salty treats rose. And popcorn was right at the center of that. Apparently, Americans were eating three times more popcorn in the 1940s than they ever had before. And also, and the, you know, the connection to movie theaters strengthened during the 1940s. In 1945, more than half the popcorn people were eating in the United States was in those movie theaters.

• 30:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and there's a, another really great, I want to say it's an urban legend, but it actually happened. A guy named James Vikari or Vikary, who we've talked about before, because he was the, basically, the inventor of subliminal advertising, even though subliminal advertising isn't really a thing. But the reason he ties into this is because he supposedly experimented on people showing frames interlaced within movies that popped up so quickly that you couldn't perceive them. You only perceived them subliminally. And they said things like, "Go eat more popcorn." And popcorn sales, like, tripled supposedly, even though the whole thing was a total fraud. And the guy made it up. It's still worth mentioning, if you ask me.

• 30:54Speaker 02

  He didn't actually even do that. He said later that he, he made all of that up. He never even did the subliminal advertising.

• 31:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I saw that, too.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, so that, that was just a fraud from top to bottom.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  Prior to the 30s, most of the popcorn was white corn, but movie theaters moved to the yellow corn variety, and it just looked better. It looked buttery, even though it wasn't. And people, that just became the de facto popcorn that you mainly eat here in the United States, is that yellow corn. I think by 1990, 10% of commercially sold popcorn was white corn.

• 31:29Josh Clark?

  Let me ask you, do you get buttered popcorn at the movies?

• 31:33Speaker 02

  I get popcorn and the AMC that I go to here has the do your own butter. That's not butter, by the way, at all. It's butter flavored oil and stuff, but I add, you know, when I was a kid, I would just drench it in that stuff. Now I do not. Now I do like that flavor, but I'll just do a pretty sparing couple of squirts and shakes.

• 32:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I never was into it, even as a kid. I tried to be in, I just couldn't get into it for some reason. I think because it just wets the popcorn and I don't like popcorn wet.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  Hmm. I love it, but it's just, you can't have it drenched in that stuff. Like that's when it's really bad for you. It's when you're just like dumping all that oil on there. But, but a little bit I like and I'll shake it up and you get, you know, I get enough of that flavor just from a dab.

• 32:25Josh Clark?

  Good. I respect our differences.

• 32:29Speaker 02

  Uh, here's the thing though, with TV coming along, uh, the popcorn industry was really, really worried that like, oh no, like, you know, all this popcorn is being eaten in movie theaters. Like we're toast because people aren't going to go to the movies anymore because of TV.

• 32:44Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 32:44Speaker 02

  A, that didn't really happen. People still went to the movies back then. Uh, but what they found out was people loved popping that popcorn at home while they watched TV and you can also have popcorn ads on TV. And so people with their televisions were eating more popcorn than ever in the 1950s.

• 33:01Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Well, you know what stuck out to me from that anecdote Chuck is like, that's an example of early disruption, right?

• 33:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:10Josh Clark?

  Where people are like, oh, there's a change. There's a huge sea change in the way people do things. So this thing is going to totally go away forever.

• 33:17Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:18Josh Clark?

  And just since the internet age, we found that just doesn't really happen. Like everything from bookstores to paper, um, to, I don't know, seeing people in person. We're all just destined to just go away because they've been replaced and it's just not how it goes, which I think is kind of neat to understand because it makes you a little less fearful of change or technology or progress in some ways.

• 33:43Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 33:43Josh Clark?

  Although anyone who's listened to the end of the world knows there's plenty of technology to be scared of. It's gotta be selective.

• 33:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. And you know, there are dents in industries for sure. Like, you know, newspapers and magazines, some have shuttered, but.

• 33:59Speaker 02

  If you believed, you know, what the scare tactics, everyone's gonna be like, you're never gonna hold a newspaper again after a certain year.

• 34:05Josh Clark?

  Yeah, newspapers, though, that one did take a pretty hard hit, but it wasn't necessarily because of the internet. It was because of captains of industry essentially realizing that they could capture journalism if they, if they defunded local news. And that's exactly what happened. And I, I don't remember what episode it was on. There's this, um, there's a YouTube podcast that I love. Yumi introduced it to me, or me to it, one of the two, called Doom Scroll. It's hosted by a guy named Joshua Sidorela. And he has the most interesting guests on who are just, they just think and talk about their thoughts. And I mean, like, it's, it's all rooted in, you know, like academia or research or something. They're

• 34:50Josh Clark?

  not just riffing or anything like that. But one of them was talking about that, that capture and what happened to it. And it, it's just so strange to think like, yeah, local newspapers went away, but the effect that that had on democracy and on people being informed and just generally caring about stuff, that was a huge, huge deal, allegedly.

• 35:11Speaker 02

  Did he eat popcorn while he said this stuff?

• 35:14Josh Clark?

  No, I don't think he did. No, he drinks like La Croix instead.

• 35:18Speaker 02

  No. All right. Well, let's take our second break and we'll finish up with popcorn right after this.

• 35:41Josh Clark?

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• 36:04Josh Clark?

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• 36:45Josh Clark?

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• 37:17Josh Clark?

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• 38:03Speaker 02

  All right. So we talked a little bit about innovations and how to pop popcorn over the years. That is still evolving. I feel like every few years, there's some new sort of weird gadget to pop popcorn with.

• 38:13Josh Clark?

  I did not know that, man.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. Electricity coming along was a big deal, obviously, for electric popcorn poppers like you have. Well, you and your electric hamster, that is.

• 38:25Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 38:27Speaker 02

  They had a drawback, though, because they were dangerous. The early electric popcorn poppers were like fires waiting to happen, essentially. I think in the late 60s, Consumer Bulletin examined all the most popular ones, and one of them, they determined, did not pose safety hazards.

• 38:46Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's the one we have.

• 38:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, from 1968.

• 38:50Josh Clark?

  Although the hamster that runs our popcorn popper did come with a little fire chief's hat that he wears.

• 38:56Speaker 02

  So cute.

• 38:58Josh Clark?

  So yeah, that's another interesting thing about popcorn. If you kind of track its trajectory, it just keeps evolving with new stuff. Like, anytime something new comes along that you can apply to popcorn, whether it's movies, or TVs, or electricity, people apply it to popcorn. Like, it's just this little thing lurking in the background that's been woven into our culture so thoroughly and for so long, you just look right past it, and then it trips you as you walk by, and you suddenly recognize how important popcorn is.

• 39:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, TV Time was another one. We already mentioned Jiffy Pop, but TV Time was a, it was just a packaging innovation where they had, like, sealed popcorn to keep it really fresh, and then also separate, kind of like Fun Dip, separate compartments for seasonings and oil. So it was kind of an all-in-one thing. So just even little innovations that aren't mechanical, like packaging innovations, like microwave popcorn, I guess we could get to, because that really changed the game.

• 39:57Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and we've talked about this guy plenty of times. He was kind of like the Hayflick limit for a while, and early stuff you should know, he came up a lot. But a guy named Percy Spencer worked for the Raytheon Company, and he was in charge of creating Magnatrons. I can't remember what he was doing with them. I think they were for like radar or something. And he was standing next to one at some point, and he had a chocolate bar. I'm guessing Mr. Goodbar, that's what I've always envisioned.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:23Josh Clark?

  In his front pocket, like a total nerd, because obviously, his shirt was also a short-sleeve button-down shirt. And the Mr. Goodbar melted in his pocket and he thought, hmm, that's curious.

• 40:36Speaker 02

  He's like, I was saving this for after lunch.

• 40:38Josh Clark?

  Exactly. No, it's just oozy. And then he decided almost immediately to see what happens with popcorn. If you could do the same thing with popcorn and he, he did it.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so like microwaves and popcorn, microwave popcorn grew in lockstep from the very beginning. Uh, in fact, he even in his 1946 patent for the microwave showed popcorn being popped. Uh, so it was always sort of tied together. Uh, the first commercial microwaves were very big and expensive. And not really for the home. They were more for restaurants. So once they went to the house, uh, microwave popcorn was, was right there along with it. Uh, in 1951, a gentleman named Orville Redenbacher, got together with a guy named Charles Bowman and bought a corn plant in Indiana and experimented with different versions of popcorn varieties and landed on the Red Bow variety.

• 41:28Speaker 02

  And in 1969, um, started selling Orville Redenbacher branded popcorn. And here's what I didn't know. They sold that brand six years later. They sold it in 1976.

• 41:40Josh Clark?

  Wow.

• 41:40Speaker 02

  To, to Hunt Weston Foods, but he was just the name and face of it. So he stayed the name and face of it.

• 41:47Josh Clark?

  Wow. Yeah. And a Red Bow variety, you said? I wonder if they named it after his penchant for Red Bow ties? Or he started wearing Red Bow ties because of the variety?

• 41:57Speaker 02

  I don't think they named the variety. So I betcha he started wearing that thing because of that.

• 42:03Josh Clark?

  There you go. He also just said one more thing about Orville Redenbacher. Their, his Eames lounge chair, uh, you know, the one with the, the ottoman?

• 42:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:13Josh Clark?

  He had one in his office and I think Nebraska, Omaha or something, and it's still out there. Orville Redenbacher's Eames lounge chair from his office is out there somewhere in the world.

• 42:22Speaker 02

  Like someone owns it?

• 42:23Josh Clark?

  Yes. I've coveted it ever since I first heard about that.

• 42:27Speaker 02

  Not just an Eames chair. You want Orville Redenbacher's Eames chair?

• 42:30Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 42:31Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 42:33Josh Clark?

  And I still, I don't know why I've never really stepped back and asked myself, but it's

• 42:37Speaker 02

  Hey.

• 42:37Josh Clark?

  It just got me for some reason.

• 42:39Speaker 02

  I mean, you can't be a Gen Xer and not have a soft spot for Orville Redenbacher and the Bartles and James guys.

• 42:46Josh Clark?

  No, yeah, they were great. They were wonderful dudes. They were the predecessor of Penn and Teller, I think.

• 42:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think you're right.

• 42:53Josh Clark?

  So, yeah, we talked about microwaves and how microwaves started coming to the home and microwave popcorn came along quickly after that. I think 1981 was when you could start buying microwave popcorn. And like I said, it's like a global phenomenon. I think I said it at the outset. Everybody knows popcorn, whether you love it or not, you know about popcorn, you know where to buy it. And there's different tastes around the world, as you might imagine. Apparently in the United States, the favorite flavors of popcorn are salted, buttered, white cheddar, regular cheddar. So white cheddar's finally overtaken regular cheddar. This is a big deal. And then kettle, which is the sweet kind.

• 43:37Speaker 02

  I like a kettle corn.

• 43:38Josh Clark?

  It's all right. I've never been crazy for it, but you know, if somebody put it in my mouth, I wouldn't just spit it out.

• 43:47Speaker 02

  I'm gonna try that sometimes, see what happens. Backstage at our next live show, I'm just gonna stuff some kettle corn in your mouth.

• 43:52Josh Clark?

  Do you remember when we were filming a, um, we were filming some commercial, I think, and we were eating popcorn at the movies for this, this part of the commercial. And we did like one take and then Chad, our friend, the director, who directed the stuff he was doing, a TV show. He came over and he's like, um, just one note, uh, don't mash a handful of popcorn into your mouth all at once. And he goes, uh, that's a note for a regular life, too.

• 44:22Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 44:23Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And so

• 44:24Speaker 02

  How else are you supposed to eat it?

• 44:25Josh Clark?

  I don't know. Like, I guess you hold it in one hand and then like daintily pluck a few out with your other hand. That's what I've seen people do in the movies. But like that, yeah, I just put my hand in a bag of popcorn or a bowl of popcorn and just shove it into my face as best I can. Okay.

• 44:43Speaker 02

  I'm on your side.

• 44:44Josh Clark?

  It's not just me, but yeah, Chad made it seem like it was just me.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  Isn't it a little funny that, you ever think about that we used to get way more opportunities to do that stuff very much earlier in our career?

• 44:57Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I think also that we've kind of Mellowed out in our quest or our willingness to do stuff like that. We kind of like

• 45:06Speaker 02

  We said no too much.

• 45:07Josh Clark?

  Yeah, we're kind of like, hey, we're happy podcasting. We tried so many different things and it's always just come back to podcasting that I think we're just like, yeah, we're happy living this way.

• 45:17Speaker 02

  I mean, I am. I'm kind of glad now that I'm older and have a, you know, family at home, does not have to travel to do that stuff. It just seems weird. Like earlier on, I felt like TV shows were trying to get us on to be like talk show guests or like toy, do Toyota commercials or hey, come on and talk about the housing crisis for NBC and like just nobody asks anymore. And it's, it's quite wonderful.

• 45:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it is nice.

• 45:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love it. Anyway, um, if you go around the country, you're going to get some interesting flavors. In Japan, apparently, there's a bagged popcorn company called Mike that Frito Lay owns and they have, of course, like Yuzu salt or Kishu plum popcorn. So you're going to get some, uh, some pretty exciting flavors when you travel around the world, depending what they like there.

• 46:03Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And I know for a fact, it's not pronounced Mike, but I failed to ask you me how to pronounce it. So

• 46:08Speaker 02

  What is it? Mike?

• 46:09Josh Clark?

  We'll go with Mike, but it's not Mike.

• 46:12Speaker 02

  Well, of course it's not Mike, but I'm an American. So.

• 46:14Josh Clark?

  No, I'm with you. I just wish I knew how to say it, but you probably were right with Mike.

• 46:20Speaker 02

  What else could it be?

• 46:21Josh Clark?

  Mike.

• 46:22Speaker 02

  Nike?

• 46:23Josh Clark?

  Kind of. Yeah, Mikey. Um, what else Chuck? Is there anything else to say about popcorn? Oh, I know one. Apparently people have used popcorn as like a packaging, like

• 46:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:35Josh Clark?

  stuffer for

• 46:36Speaker 02

  Packing peanuts.

• 46:37Josh Clark?

  Yeah, packing peanuts, but popcorn instead. Um, since like the 1950s. But the problem is, is if you use popcorn, um, it can get kind of gross, especially if you didn't think and you popped it in oil and covered it with butter before you put it in as a packaging material. Um, it'll just get gross. It can attract pests and stuff like that. So no one's quite figured it out. But I guess a few years back, 2021, there's some German researchers who were like hot on the trail of this, using scraps of corn that is like, that they get off the floor of like a cornflake factory that they figured out how to pop. And it's essentially styrofoam, but it's made of popcorn. And I'm like, hurry

• 47:20Josh Clark?

  up with this because styrofoam is one of the worst things humans produce on this entire planet.

• 47:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, totally. Packing peanuts are a nightmare.

• 47:29Josh Clark?

  They really are.

• 47:30Speaker 02

  Uh, so yeah, maybe popcorn could, could help out with that. Just a couple of things to finish on. Uh, it is an 850 million dollar industry, I guess, in the United States alone. That bagged popcorn, like the Smart Pop and all that stuff combined is about 1.5 billion. So it is, it is.

• 47:50Josh Clark?

  It's popping.

• 47:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's pop, it's popping. Uh, and I'm glad that we held on to the stat because we kind of teased about movie theaters and how much the markup was and how much money they made. Uh, the popcorn markup in movie theaters is 1,275%.

• 48:07Josh Clark?

  Totally buy that. That actually seems low.

• 48:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's such a moneymaker, uh, because it's just so cheap to get and you get that machine that runs forever. Uh, maybe a little maintenance on it and then the stuff goes with it and then you sell it for a gazillion dollars for a bucket. Uh, then you got that, that butter flavored liquid, uh, that's no good. If you, if you do like real butter on, on your popcorn at home, I encourage that because real butter is great. Uh, but you gotta use clarified butter or ghee.

• 48:36Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 48:37Speaker 02

  Uh, because the water and the milk solids are removed in those and that's what's gonna make the popcorn soggy. So if you're just melting butter and pouring on your popcorn, you're like, why is my popcorn soggy and gross? That's why. Use clarified butter or clarify your own butter and pour it over your popcorn and it is delicious and not soggy.

• 48:54Josh Clark?

  Very nice. Uh, I think that's it for popcorn, right?

• 48:59Speaker 02

  Uh, I've got nothing else on popcorn. Go forth and eat it. It's good and pretty good for you.

• 49:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and, uh, check out that book by Andrew Smith, Pop Culture, because it's the definitive tome on popcorn.

• 49:11Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 49:12Josh Clark?

  Uh, well, since we talked about Andrew Smith, it's time, obviously, for listener mail.

• 49:19Speaker 02

  This is from Cecilia S. and it's about our music bumpers that we've said before, but it always bears repeating. They are made by Stuff You Should Know listeners. They always have been. Every single one of them are made by listeners. And they send them in. And it's a really cool, like, interactive part of the show for the listenership. Guys, in terms of your music bumpers, I love how they relate to the episode subject. If it's about an eerie subject, the song reflects that with an eerie tone. Or if it's a somber, sad subject, the song reflects that. And there are many other examples. This brings to mind my father, who was a music director at the church we belonged to growing up. He would sometimes fill in when the organist was unavailable. And before and after mass, he would softly play hymns but insert a bit of whimsy. For example, at the start of baseball season, he'd play a little "Take Me Out To The Ballgame" in the style of

• 50:04Speaker 02

  a hymn. Or during football season, the University Fight Song could be heard in the fashion of a solemn liturgical piece. Many other instances of his playfulness, he had a big band combo in college in the 1940s and into the 70s. And they could sometimes be heard in church. Anyway, love the show. You both display such curiosity and knowledge and with wonderful wit and sensitivity when needed. Thank you to whoever is responsible for the music. It's not often I would say that about a podcast. So Cecilia, like we said, those are from the listeners. But Jerry, our esteemed third leg of our stool, is who ties those so aptly to the subject matter with her own wit and whimsy.

• 50:46Josh Clark?

  Yeah, Jerry deserves way more credit for that, too. Because sometimes it's just like, man, you just knocked it out of the park with that pick, Jerry.

• 50:54Speaker 02

  She does. And we're never like, uh, Jerry, this is a Halloween one, so make sure to use a scary bumper.

• 50:59Josh Clark?

  Yeah, we don't do that. We leave it to Jerry.

• 51:01Speaker 02

  She does her thing.

• 51:02Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And also, huge, huge heartfelt thanks. I think I just said thanks, but I really meant thanks to every single person who's ever sent in a music bumper, because that's just such a cool, just little subtle part of the show. Having all those different great little pieces of music. Thank you to everybody who's ever done that. Thank you to everybody who's going to do it in the future even, too.

• 51:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, 12 seconds or less.

• 51:29Josh Clark?

  I think we say 16.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  I thought it was 12.

• 51:32Josh Clark?

  Somewhere in that neighborhood, between 12 and 16 seconds. How about that?

• 51:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, but if you send in one of those 30 second long ones, you'll hear from me saying, this is great, but cut it down and we'll use it.

• 51:43Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's a note for, for real life, too.

• 51:46Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 51:47Josh Clark?

  Well, if you want to get in touch with us, like Cecilia, you can send us an email, too. Send it off to [email protected].

• 51:59Speaker 03

  Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, MyHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 52:15Josh Clark?

  Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it starts with a great deal on an off-road-ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's longest-lasting trucks, combining power for work, tech for adventures, and style in between. And they're built on a reputation for quality and reliability, which is why Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. So get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for more. Toyota, let's go places. Introducing Voices of VivGart. VivGart is also known as its generic name, Fgart Tigamod Alpha F Cam. And this new show features firsthand stories from people living with a rare disease.

• 52:56Josh Clark?

  Hosted by Andrew Stratton, these perspectives highlight that life is more than a moment, a condition, or a tough day. Living with a rare disease can be challenging, but it does not define the Voices of VivGart. In these episodes, they share their stories, from diagnosis to working with their care team on their treatment plan. Listen to Voices of VivGart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Running a business is hard enough. Don't make it harder with a dozen apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales, one for inventory, a separate one for accounting, that's software overload. Odoo is the all-in-one platform that replaces them all. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, fully integrated, easy to use, and built to grow with your

• 53:39Josh Clark?

  business. Thousands have already made the switch. Why not you? Try Odoo for free at O D O O dot com. That's Odoo dot com.

• 53:47Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.