Plant-Based Diets

You don’t have to be a hardcore vegan to eat a plant-based diet (although you can be). There’s a whole variety of degrees people adopt phasing out meat from their plates. One kind is even called flexitarian for goodness sake. Seems pretty welcoming to us. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Josh Clark?

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• 1:30Josh Clark?

  Listen to Voices of VivGart on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:38Speaker 00

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio.

• 1:47Josh Clark?

  Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too. And this is a good old fashioned rootin', tootin', down home episode of Stuff You Should Know.

• 1:56Speaker 02

  Technical difficulties, please stand by.

• 2:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah, we were a good 20 minutes late, Chuck.

• 2:03Speaker 02

  Because of, well, it's about to say me. It's not my fault.

• 2:06Josh Clark?

  No, it's not your fault. It's the computer's fault.

• 2:12Speaker 02

  Not even. But who cares about computers? This is, I mean, this is probably literally the opposite of computers because we're talking about plants.

• 2:20Josh Clark?

  Yeah, yeah. I was going to ask you, old school, Chuck. Have you ever eaten a plant?

• 2:30Speaker 02

  I love living things, so I do not kill plants and eat them.

• 2:34Josh Clark?

  So are you a breathitarian?

• 2:37Speaker 02

  That's what they are, right?

• 2:38Josh Clark?

  Yeah, where you just don't eat?

• 2:41Speaker 02

  Uh, no, of course I eat plants. Uh, I, you know, Emily, I would argue has a plant-based diet. Now that I know that a plant-based diet doesn't mean that you're vegan or vegetarian, it just, and you know, as, as you'll see, depending on the percentage of the website you look at, uh, a lot of people say like, you know, it really depends on how much you eat and a certain percentage, like maybe 80% of your diet is plant-based. And that's easily, Emily, she eats vegetables constantly.

• 3:13Josh Clark?

  She always has like a radish in her hand?

• 3:15Speaker 02

  No, but this is her meals, like her meals, she'll cook like, we try to eat the same stuff, but I don't want to sit down and eat Brussels sprouts, broccoli and cauliflower for dinner.

• 3:24Josh Clark?

  That's a plant-based diet for sure.

• 3:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, but she'll throw some chicken in there and some fish. So she's sort of pescatarian plus, maybe?

• 3:33Josh Clark?

  Yeah, pescapultritarian?

• 3:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of terms for all this stuff. I didn't know about a third of these, probably.

• 3:40Josh Clark?

  Yeah, they all seem to fall under the umbrella term, like you said, a plant-based diet. So like a vegan diet is a plant-based diet, but not all plant-based diets are like vegan diets.

• 3:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:49Josh Clark?

  That kind of setup.

• 3:50Speaker 02

  I had never heard of lacto vegetarian, which basically means throw out all the rest, but I'll eat dairy.

• 3:57Josh Clark?

  Yeah, understandable. There's also ovo vegetarian. These are terrible names, by the way.

• 4:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:03Josh Clark?

  That means that you, um, include eggs in your vegan diet.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, not oval. That would make even more sense, I think.

• 4:11Josh Clark?

  No, it means that you include ovum in your diet.

• 4:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:16Josh Clark?

  But I should say it's not a vegan diet at all. Like you can't have any kind of, um, animal products.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 4:23Josh Clark?

  In a vegan diet, not just like meat or dairy or eggs, but like vegan won't eat honey.

• 4:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:29Josh Clark?

  We talked about fig wasps recently. They won't eat figs for that reason.

• 4:33Speaker 02

  Uh, I think some vegans, I, I've found a lot of support behind vegan saying like a processed wasp part in a thing is fine.

• 4:42Josh Clark?

  Okay. I'll bet there's some that still won't.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  Oh, sure.

• 4:46Josh Clark?

  Um, and then there's also.

• 4:49Josh Clark?

  Lacto ovo vegetarian. You're a vegetarian, but you eat eggs and dairy. There's lacto ovo bacon vegetarian. And then there's what you said Emily was pescatarian, which is.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  Generally.

• 5:03Josh Clark?

  I mean, you're you're essentially just, you know, you're eating more vegetables than the average person at this point, if you're a pescatarian, I think.

• 5:09Speaker 02

  That's right. No comment on what that does to your butt.

• 5:14Josh Clark?

  What, if you just eat seafood?

• 5:17Speaker 02

  No, if you eat nothing but broccoli and cauliflower all day long.

• 5:20Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah. Not just your butt, but like the well being of people around you, too.

• 5:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it's it's very good for you. She's a much healthier human than I am.

• 5:29Josh Clark?

  Nice. Well, not not the part that you're not as healthy, but I'm glad that she is.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course. One thing we should point out early on is that there's a sort of exhaustive look at how much meat people eat around the world at a certain point, or kind of peppered throughout. And just for comps purposes, in the United States, we average per capita meat consumption between 123 to 150 ish kilograms, depending on where you're looking. So just kind of put that in your in the back in your back pocket when we start talking about other countries.

• 6:05Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that that really kind of came home to me when I converted it to quarter pounders.

• 6:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, what's that?

• 6:11Josh Clark?

  Or in Europe, Royale with cheese. That's 1332 quarter pounders a year. That means you're eating almost four quarter pounders worth of meat a day every year at 151.4 kilograms.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  Man, if only you could do that and live.

• 6:29Josh Clark?

  Right. That's called heaven, my friend.

• 6:32Speaker 02

  So clearly with those kind of numbers, the US is a meat based culture. I mean, plenty of people here do not take part in that kind of thing, obviously. But as you'll see, many cultures around the world historically have plant based diets and still have plant based diets. Depending on who you ask, they might say there's about 2 billion meat based eaters in the world and about 4 billion plant based eaters.

• 6:58Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so I mean, that's not too bad. They're really holding things up. Because I mean, if you're if actually, that's more than that's the majority. Then you're saying the majority of the world is plant-based diet.

• 7:10Speaker 02

  I'm saying 2 billion and 4 billion. I'm not I'm not weighing in on percentages.

• 7:14Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 7:16Josh Clark?

  Yeah, we will go around the world in a minute, but let's go through history for a little bit first. Okay, because plant-based diets, especially in the West, they're kind of like a new thing. Maybe they came out of the new age movement in the 70s and 80s.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  No.

• 7:30Josh Clark?

  This is really old stuff. In fact, you can make a really good case that plant-based diets, especially like a flexitarian version, is essentially the default diet of humans.

• 7:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's in some cases, or actually, in a lot of cases, especially historically speaking, and still in some places today, it's sort of the de facto diet because that's what you have. And you may not have the kind of money to like, go get really good meat or something like that. So if you look back through time, and you go back to say, like Ireland in the 19th century, before the potato famine, they were eating tons of potatoes. There were a lot of poor people in Ireland that were like, hey, we can grow potatoes. They have some vitamins and minerals. Maybe we can milk a cow and eat a little pickled herring. But other than that, we're eating lots and lots of potatoes.

• 8:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah, for sure. This is before the famine, when a potato blight came. And when the Irish immigrants really started to come en masse to the United States in the 19th century, they were quite surprised at the abundance and availability and cheapness of meat in the United States. And that apparently dates back to colonial times, where colonists in, well, what would become the United States, were eating more meat than the average person back in England. Like, they were eating essentially the same amount of meat as elites back in the UK. And that's the longstanding thing, where meat consumption throughout history

• 9:04Josh Clark?

  in most places is associated with a higher status, an elite status. You're wealthier because it's always been harder to come by. Well, the colonies had a lot more land, so they could grow a lot more livestock and then hence eat a lot more meat.

• 9:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, had a lot more land, asterisk.

• 9:23Josh Clark?

  Right. Well put.

• 9:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, everyone knows what we mean by that. Uh, yeah, and you know, there's a, who helped us with the original version of this? Was it Libya?

• 9:32Josh Clark?

  No, Laura.

• 9:33Speaker 02

  All right, the claw?

• 9:34Josh Clark?

  Mm hmm, Dr. Claw.

• 9:35Speaker 02

  Dr. Claw. Uh, she dug up a, a, a graph, basically, about how Italians eat. And prior to, uh, well, not that long ago, they ate what you would call the Mediterranean diet now. And they just called it, uh, what we eat, because that's what's around here.

• 9:53Josh Clark?

  Right, the diet.

• 9:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Fruit, vegetables, olive oil, uh, legumes, fish, cereals, not a ton of dairy or meat. Um, but they, after, I believe after World War II, they started eating, um, a lot more meat. Um, before that, it was basically a, a plant-based diet. Uh, because as you'll see, once again, no, no, no, Chuck, they're eating lots of fish. Plant-based diet is, we're talking about meat here. Uh, their fish get a pass, I guess, as far as plant-based diet goes. It does not mean vegetarian or vegan.

• 10:23Josh Clark?

  Right, and Italy followed the same trajectory that, um, most nations do. Once they reach a certain point of prosperity, meat consumption just starts going through the roof. Whereas before, in history, elites, like individual groups of people who are well off or could afford meat, when an entire nation becomes well off enough, they start buying meat. Meat consumption just goes up. So after the war, Italy followed that. And you'll see, like, throughout, throughout the world, the more prosperous a nation, the higher their meat consumption, almost, it's almost to a country.

• 10:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, which, you know, a cynic might say, well, if every, every nation was prosperous, everyone would just eat tons of meat. Uh, and it sounds cynical, but like, the data sort of says what you just said.

• 11:11Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  You know?

• 11:14Speaker 02

  If you look at the US in the 19th century, uh, they were roundly encouraging that people eat lots and lots of meat. Uh, there was a cholera outbreak in 1832, and the US government said, eat more meat and drink more alcohol, and lay off the fruits and vegetables, uh, obviously because of cholera. But there was also just this idea in America early on, um, that like, you know, We're well fed and we're well bred because we eat red meat and we grow them big here in the States. We're not sitting around eating rice and grains and potatoes.

• 11:50Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and that that diet has just spread throughout the world. But again, it doesn't necessarily seem to mean because people are emulating the United States. It just seems like the United States was following a trajectory that other countries are now, right?

• 12:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. And hey, what a great time to set up where countries are now. Because remember those numbers I told you about the United States. We're gonna walk you around the world, everybody. Not in the Wayback Machine. What do we call this?

• 12:18Josh Clark?

  The Gofar Machine.

• 12:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, the Gofar and Wide Machine.

• 12:30Speaker 02

  Modern day, jump in the Gofar and Wide Machine and come with us. At first, to Africa. If you look at continent-wide, the stat is about 65 grams, I'm sorry, 65 kilograms of meat per capita. I wonder about that number because if you break it down for per country, South Africa, they eat about 65.2 kilograms compared to, let's say, the Democratic Republic of Congo at just over 4 kilograms. Who's eating more red meat in Africa than South Africa to make that average 65?

• 13:08Josh Clark?

  I don't know. One thing that I recognized from researching this is that there are so many stats that are so different and estimates that are just so different and don't understand why it's so hard to track something like meat consumption. Like, we've got that so commoditized that, I mean, I don't understand how we can't track it, even for the United States. You rattled off three different estimates for how much meat the United States eats. So who knows, Chuck? Who really knows whether any of these numbers are correct or not?

• 13:41Speaker 02

  Well, it's no one's ever asked me how much meat I eat. I could skew that.

• 13:44Josh Clark?

  Oh, really?

• 13:45Speaker 02

  Have you?

• 13:46Josh Clark?

  Oh, I get that all the time.

• 13:49Josh Clark?

  Usually because I have like a big chunk of like steak in my teeth.

• 13:52Speaker 02

  No, no, no. I mean, like an official study. Like, I don't know how they

• 13:55Josh Clark?

  I know, I'm just kidding.

• 13:55Speaker 02

  do any of that stuff. It's sort of like weird black magic to me. But we do know that generally speaking, West African nations eat a little more meat. It's a little more meat heavy than East African nations.

• 14:07Josh Clark?

  Mm hmm.

• 14:08Speaker 02

  But even in West Africa, that's again, I mean, if the average per capita was 65 kilograms, that's like less than half the United States per capita.

• 14:17Josh Clark?

  Right. Yeah. The I'm guessing from what I could tell, the United States leads the world in meat consumption.

• 14:25Speaker 02

  I'm sure.

• 14:25Josh Clark?

  Most other countries, depending on where they are, are going to eat a lot less. But again, like you said, Africa is not some single monolith. It has a bunch of different variation. Asia is the same way. On the whole, Asia eats far less meat compared to one another. Some eat more, some eat less, and you get all sorts of weird little statistical blips that come up from that.

• 14:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. If you if you look at the top 10 countries around the world with the highest rates of vegetarianism, India and Taiwan are on there. So two of the top 10 are in Asia. Japan and China, they aren't on the list of top 10 percentage vegetarian wise, but they eat a lot less meat than the US at an average per capita consumption under 75 kilograms.

• 15:12Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and Taiwan's a good example, too. It has a very high percentage of vegetarians, but it also has a really high per capita meat consumption, too. So it's just basically wacky over there.

• 15:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. And what this was another, like, if you look at Bangladesh, Bhutan, Nepal, Myanmar, Cambodia, Indonesia, and Vietnam, they're all under 20 kilograms. And Thailand is at like 25, and Laos at 30. So I mean, that's way less than the 75 average in Japan and China.

• 15:46Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I would guess Thailand and I'm not sure about Laos, but I would guess Thailand is

• 15:55Josh Clark?

  wealthier than probably Myanmar or Indonesia. I don't know about Vietnam, but I think a lot of it also has to do with the religious, like what religions are predominant there, too.

• 16:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, which we'll get in. Well, actually, we should take a break before we do that, but we'll talk about India real quick because they have the highest proportion of vegetarians in the world, close to 40%, 38%, 39% are vegetarian in India for, you know, obvious reasons. And 6.6 kilograms of meat per capita compared to as many as 150 for the US.

• 16:32Josh Clark?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 16:33Speaker 02

  That's very low.

• 16:35Josh Clark?

  It is very low. I say we take a break. We're going to come back to the studio away from the, what was it? The far, go far and wide machine?

• 16:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love it. We're still inventing new ways to travel in year 17.

• 16:48Josh Clark?

  It still has that new imaginary machine smell in it. Yeah, anyway, we're going to take a break, everybody, and we'll figure out what we're going to talk about next.

• 17:13Speaker 03

  First thought is like, wow, how are we going to do all this?

• 17:16Josh Clark?

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• 18:27Josh Clark?

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• 19:55Josh Clark?

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• 20:28Speaker 02

  All right, we're back and we promised talk of religion, because who doesn't love that? But this is religion as it relates to diet, because depending on your religion, there may be a lot of, you know, rules and restrictions on what they say you should eat because of a bunch of reasons. Sometimes it shows like purity, sometimes it's like, no, it shows how dedicated and faithful you are. Sometimes it's like, hey, you good at following rules? Don't eat this on this day, and let's see how you do with that. But for whatever reason, there are plenty of religions that have rules sort of surrounding meat, for sure.

• 21:06Josh Clark?

  Yeah, some of the most famous ones are kosher.

• 21:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:09Josh Clark?

  It's a big one, where you have to actually separate certain kinds of food, like you separate meat, you separate dairy. There's also like restrictions and guidelines on how animals are slaughtered. So it's not particularly vegetarian by nature, keeping kosher is. But it makes you so much more mindful that a lot of people just eventually end up being vegetarian, just by following a kosher diet. There's also halal is very similar. It has all sorts of permissions and bans and stuff like that on what animals can be eaten. But it's different in that like, there's no shellfish allowed, or birds

• 21:47Josh Clark?

  of prey, but you can eat rabbits. But they're both similar-ish in that you really have to pay attention to what you're eating if you're a genuine adherent of this religious diet that's being prescribed to you.

• 22:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. And if you're wondering like, well, how does that affect the rate of vegetarianism in Israel? They are second, behind India. That's not the only factor, of course. But I think the highest percentage of veganism is in Israel, too, which is, yeah, I don't know why that surprised me, but it did.

• 22:20Josh Clark?

  Okay, good. Noted.

• 22:23Josh Clark?

  There's, I think, so this is another thing, too. Like, a lot of people just end up being default vegetarians because of their religious diet. And another good example is the Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Church, which we talked about in our Holly Selassie episode, I think. They have 200 days a year that are considered fast days, where you just can't eat meat. But you can eat plants. So, I mean, for all intents and purposes, you're at least the majority of the year a vegetarian if you're Ethiopian Orthodox.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  I wonder if 165 days a year, they just party down on some steak.

• 23:03Josh Clark?

  Probably.

• 23:04Speaker 02

  What, Seventh Day Adventists? It's not a requirement to be a vegetarian, but they're like, it's not a bad way to live. They kind of endorse it.

• 23:12Josh Clark?

  Yeah, remember, they grew out of that whole William Keith and John Kellogg movement of the 19th century.

• 23:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, they endorse the movement generally, but about 36% end up lacto-ovo vegetarians. And then 16%, I'm sorry, an additional 16% eat plant-based diet with maybe a little fish, maybe a little bit of meat.

• 23:37Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Buddhism is very connected to vegetarianism, like a straightforward religious decree like kosher. Instead, it's linked to nonviolence, right? So if your religion forbids violence, you can't really cut the head off of a chicken and eat it very easily. People still do in Buddhist countries, but it's much more, or it's much less common and frequent. And in fact, apparently in Japan, from 675 to 1872, meat was essentially banned in that country because of the influence of Buddhism and Confucianism.

• 24:18Speaker 02

  You gotta wait on that chicken to die of natural causes.

• 24:21Josh Clark?

  Just follow it around like a buzzard.

• 24:24Speaker 02

  He's not looking so good.

• 24:26Josh Clark?

  He looks a little peeking.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  Hindu is, I love that word, by the way.

• 24:31Josh Clark?

  Good, I'm glad I used it.

• 24:32Speaker 02

  I heard that word last night on the TV show The Pit, and I realized I just don't use it much.

• 24:37Josh Clark?

  You know what I like that's similar is Peckish.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  I like Peckish as well.

• 24:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah, me too.

• 24:41Speaker 02

  Maybe our, our musical duo should be Pekin and Peckish.

• 24:45Josh Clark?

  Oh, my God. That is, you just won the band name contest Chuck for all time.

• 24:52Speaker 02

  But everyone would be like, who's Pekin and who's Peckish? Like, I think Josh is Pekin and Chuck is Peckish.

• 24:56Josh Clark?

  It wouldn't matter. We could both be. It would, it would depend on our mood on any given day.

• 25:01Speaker 02

  Or perhaps we are both Pekin and Peckish.

• 25:03Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 25:04Speaker 02

  At all times. We're always hungry and we're always not looking so good.

• 25:09Speaker 02

  Uh, Hinduism at almost 80% eats a, a plant-based diet, but they, again, it's not required. It's just like, hey, why don't you do this? That kind of thing. Heavily suggested, maybe.

• 25:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it's also, um, I mean, especially since the Hindu nationalist ruling party took over, the Bharatiya Janata Party, BJP, they, um, have been enforcing like really strict rules that are Hindu in, in nature against eating meat, so much so that people have been beaten. I think one person at least has been lynched for eating meat or being associated with the meat trade, specifically beef, because cows are considered sacred in Hinduism. And also similarly, in India, vegetarianism is linked to social status.

• 26:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:04Josh Clark?

  Uh, in, in, in basically complete contradiction of what it's like in, say, the West, where, you know, eating meat has long been associated with being an elite or having high status. Vegetarianism is in India, apparently.

• 26:18Speaker 02

  All right. Flip flopped it. I love it.

• 26:20Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And if you're like, wow, 80% of Hindus are vegetarian, it's pretty impressive. Prepare for this. Janes, these are the people who are so against hurting or killing anything that they have little hand dust brooms that they carry with them to dust off seats before they sit down so they don't accidentally kill a bud. Ninety-two percent of them and fifty-nine percent of Sikhs in India are all vegetarians.

• 26:48Speaker 02

  And I guess eight percent of Janes are bad Janes.

• 26:51Josh Clark?

  I guess so. I mean, like, how would you show up to like the Jane meeting and show your face?

• 26:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, or show up to a Jane party with a rack of ribs.

• 27:02Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 27:04Speaker 02

  That's probably not, that's probably frowned upon, I would say.

• 27:06Josh Clark?

  I would think so.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  All right, so if, and of course, I'm kidding. No offense to any Janes out there.

• 27:12Josh Clark?

  No, of course not. I'm sure they'd show up and be like, "Natural causes."

• 27:15Speaker 02

  Right.

• 27:16Josh Clark?

  And everybody would be like, "Heck, yeah."

• 27:19Speaker 02

  So if you're gonna eat a plant-based diet, it can look like, it can look many different ways depending on what you're into. We found some information from Harvard Health, and obviously, one thing that you're gonna do is eat lots of veggies, like Emily does. They say like, "Hey, fill half your plate up with veggies and vary the color. Don't eat just like a bunch of green veggies. Eat veggies of all stripes and colors."

• 27:42Josh Clark?

  Get you some Anthracyanins, why don't you?

• 27:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:46Josh Clark?

  Also, the way, so these are like, if you want to start to get into vegetarianism, these are some easy ways to kind of slide into it. Another one is changing the way that you think about meat.

• 27:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:58Josh Clark?

  Rather than it being the center or the star of the meal, just kind of put it to the side. Like, it doesn't necessarily have to be, you know, a thumb-sized piece of steak. But I mean, if it more, you know, kind of evenly resembled the grain or the greens on your plate, that would make, that would make a lot more sense.

• 28:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'll have the cream spinach, side of broccoli, and a thumb of steak.

• 28:24Josh Clark?

  Right. It's funny, so I use thumb. So have you ever heard that thing about a portion of meat being no bigger than the palm of your hand?

• 28:33Speaker 02

  For like, that's the healthy way to eat meat?

• 28:36Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  Uh, I don't think I've heard that, but that

• 28:39Josh Clark?

  Oh, okay.

• 28:40Speaker 02

  I could see that.

• 28:41Josh Clark?

  So not just that, if you cup your hands, that you're serving a fruit and vegetables, and then your thumb is your measure of fats, like a nut butter or something like that?

• 28:48Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 28:49Josh Clark?

  There's a name for all this. It's called the Zimbabwe hand jive.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  I can, I've done that dance, but I did not know that was a eating scale.

• 28:59Josh Clark?

  Well, so this guy in 1993, Dr. Kazim Maji, came up with this, this way of doing it. It's been widely adopted, but I had no idea that's what it was called.

• 29:11Speaker 02

  It's a great name. Um, what I do, we host a lot of, uh, especially in the spring and summertime, uh, of people, um, when we go to the lake and just at our house here, we have, we throw dinner parties. We just do a lot of that kind of stuff. Uh, and aside from being exhausting, one thing, I'm just kidding. It's actually a lot of fun. But, um, one thing I do, and this goes along with like how you think about meat and how much meat you have is I don't, um, cook up like, you know, 20 chicken breasts if there's 20 people there. Uh, I cook up, uh, a bunch of, you know, whatever kind of cut of chicken and/or steak. Sometimes I'll do a couple of meats and I will just, I will slice it all up on a big platter.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  Uh, and then you can just get a portion of something rather than saying like, here's a gigantic chicken breast on your plate that you now feel responsible for.

• 30:06Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 30:07Speaker 02

  And it's, people seem to really like that, you know, like, uh, maybe I'll have a little bit of this and a little bit of that. And then the rest is our, our veggie sides.

• 30:14Josh Clark?

  Nice.

• 30:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. So that's a tip from Chucky.

• 30:16Josh Clark?

  Yeah. You should just set up a carving station and ask to see each person's thumb size.

• 30:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:23Josh Clark?

  That'd save you a bunch of money.

• 30:24Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 30:26Josh Clark?

  So let's see, what else? Oh, another good one is to choose different fats, avocados, olive oil, stuff like that. And then just cook at least one vegetarian meal per week.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  Dip your toe in the pool.

• 30:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And if you start doing these kinds of things, it's actually really easy to find yourself down the road, like just doing it without thinking about it. And more and more meals throughout the week become vegetarian. Because we'll talk in a minute about why people do this. But a lot of people stop eating as much meat for health reasons, or because they want to lose weight. And if you just kind of start, like you said, dip your toe in like this, it just becomes kind of second nature over time.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can get used to something like that. And I think what you'll find, if you think you need meat, because like, it's more filling. That's just not true. You get plenty full eating all that other stuff. So you know, you can give it a whirl. I do that stuff every now and then. Whole grains at breakfast is great. This is basically, again, what Emily does, a lot of oatmeal, buckwheat, barley, quinoa. Eat like a horse, but not as much as a horse.

• 31:38Josh Clark?

  This is a big one for me, Chuck, is eating fruit for dessert. Because I don't ever eat something. And like a meal of any kind, and not think like, okay, now I have to have something sweet.

• 31:50Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 31:51Josh Clark?

  I just can't not do it. My brain just is wired that way.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  I am too.

• 31:55Josh Clark?

  Yeah, okay. So if you just eat like an apple, or some strawberries, or something like that, it just short circuits that. It does it for you.

• 32:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have just retrained my brain to where I don't seek that. And it's not like, I was eating dessert every night. Like, the only time I literally have dessert, like a dessert is kind of, either if a bunch of people are out to eat, and it's an occasion, or maybe on vacation, or something like that. But it's not like, even eating out in a restaurant, we never eat dessert like that. But

• 32:25Speaker 02

  I have found just one square of dark chocolate scratches that itch in a nice way.

• 32:31Josh Clark?

  That always feels like a punishment to me.

• 32:34Speaker 02

  Why? Because it's just one?

• 32:36Josh Clark?

  Just one and it's dark chocolate.

• 32:38Speaker 02

  Oh, you don't like dark chocolate?

• 32:40Josh Clark?

  It's fine, but it's not going to short circuit that dessert.

• 32:43Speaker 02

  I had, you know what? I used to not be into dark chocolate, but I la la la love it now.

• 32:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah, good. I'm glad. I'm glad to hear that. I'm gonna cut the legs out from under you in a little while then.

• 32:53Speaker 02

  But I don't do that every night, but I'll still, you know, when I want that, when I find myself like, God, I gotta have the sweet thing tonight. I'll do one square, sprinkle a couple of little dabs of sea salt on top and that that does it for me.

• 33:04Josh Clark?

  My God. Why don't you live in Brooklyn?

• 33:07Speaker 02

  I know. Uh, because I don't have a mayonnaise store. Um, greens too, obviously, like leafy vegetables, salads. Just eat as much stuff. Like, I love a salad. Emily make, you know, she grows that stuff and prepares fresh salads. Makes her own salad dressing. Uh, she's gotten more into cooking. She never used to do stuff like that at all, but she's, um, that I found myself eating a lot more salad these days.

• 33:33Josh Clark?

  Right. Uh, and then the last one is after you do all these things, eat more vegetables, uh, eat a vegetarian meal once a week. Eat a salad for dinner. Um, the, this is actually the key to the whole thing. Go to bed really early so that your normal breakfast will come much more quickly.

• 33:51Speaker 02

  I don't eat breakfast, but yeah.

• 33:54Josh Clark?

  That was a joke, by the way.

• 33:55Speaker 02

  I know, I get it.

• 33:56Josh Clark?

  Okay. Well, thanks for the laugh support.

• 34:01Josh Clark?

  You want to take a break and then come back and talk about why people become vegetarian or vegan?

• 34:05Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 34:06Josh Clark?

  Okay. Well, we'll be right back again.

• 34:27Josh Clark?

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• 36:47Josh Clark?

  Okay Chuck, I think I promised before we left that we'd talk about why people become vegetarian. I already said health reasons, which we'll get into more in a little while.

• 36:58Josh Clark?

  But a lot of people just do it because it's just healthier. Like if you want to eat healthier, most people don't like double or triple down on fried chicken. Like you instead start turning to plants, you know, like people just start eating more plants and it's almost intuitive. I don't think it even has anything to do with the nutritionist set in the United States convincing people like plants are healthy. I just feel like we just intuitively know that that is healthier than eating like a steak or again fried chicken. Which I feel like there's a place for fried chicken. I'm not knocking that.

• 37:34Speaker 02

  No, I mean, as you know, it's my favorite food and I just, you know.

• 37:37Josh Clark?

  I heard you.

• 37:38Speaker 02

  I gotta, gotta pick and choose with that stuff, but it's not removed from my life, thank goodness. But you're gonna get lots of vitamins and minerals and fiber and antioxidants in your veggies. If you eat legumes, if you're a vegetarian, you probably eat lots of legumes and chickpeas and lima beans and stuff like that. Soy, you're gonna get lots of protein, amino acids, lots of fiber and antioxidants there. And also no cholesterol, which is, you know, I have cholesterol problems genetically speaking, so. And a lot of people do, so that's a good way to get your cholesterol down.

• 38:15Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and there's a lot of variety in just legumes alone, like rather than do you want the chicken or the fish? There's something like 20,000 species of legumes. And I didn't know this, I ran across this Chuck, there's a category of food called neglected and underutilized legumes.

• 38:33Speaker 02

  The saddest legume.

• 38:34Josh Clark?

  They even have an acronym for it, N U Ls, right? And there's apparently a ton of legumes that are found around the world that are known to like local cuisine that are just waiting to be adopted to kind of make the, the plant-based diet even more varied.

• 38:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I ate, there's 20,000, I probably have had five.

• 38:56Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 38:57Speaker 02

  Actually, maybe more, but no, no, no.

• 38:59Josh Clark?

  I know. No, I know what you mean.

• 39:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:01Josh Clark?

  I just had a night. So one of the, one of the ones I found was the Bombara ground nut. You would make a trillion dollars if instead of a mayonnaise operation, you opened a Bombara ground nut operation in Brooklyn.

• 39:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 39:15Josh Clark?

  I mean, you would make so much cash, dude, overnight.

• 39:18Speaker 02

  People just like saying ground nut.

• 39:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah, but that Bombara really sells the ground nut, if you ask me.

• 39:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. Obviously, you know, we've mentioned the concerns with red meat, but with beef and pork, people have been, you know, calling for years for less of that in your diet and, you know, health practitioners and doctors, because obviously, you know, heart attack, stroke, cancer, all the things that can lead, lead you in that direction once you eat too much red meat.

• 39:47Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and the medical consensus is, and remains so, that eating red meat, too much red meat, is bad for you. Like, it just leads to all sorts of negative health outcomes, like stroke and heart attack, heart disease, things like that. The problem is, despite that consensus, studies still come out fairly regularly that question that idea, that say, no, it's not necessarily true. And they usually get shouted down. But it's enough that it makes, like, some people question that. I feel like because the medical consensus is that for now, it's probably okay to kind of follow that philosophy that less meat is healthier than more meat.

• 40:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. Another big, big reason is animal welfare and just maybe your moral values as a human. That is a, a lot of people switch over to vegetarianism or veganism because the modern factory farming system in the United States is, is a horror show. And, and everybody knows this. Some people, some people do it anyway. But it's a big reason, you know, like vegans are like, no, all, all animals have a right to life and a right to freedom, and we're not doing it right here in the United States. So I'm not going to take part in it.

• 41:07Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's a whole subcategory of veganism called ethical vegans. And I think that they could shoulder their own episode because the whole philosophy behind it and like the way that they live their lives, it's really interesting. And something I ran across that they counter is the idea of carnism, eating meat not being normal, and we just take it for normal. And they, they question that. They're like, who said that eating meat is normal? And that that's like why people, why people like me can feel bad when I pass like a truck full of cows on their way to the slaughter on the highway and then still go eat like a cheeseburger that same day.

• 41:52Josh Clark?

  That we just kind of have this idea that carnism is normal and vegans are like, no, that's not true. So I found that fascinating. I kind of wanted to get into it a little more.

• 42:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. I'm not gonna tell that story. Mind fleeting is another one, which is, I mean, exactly what it sounds like. Just instead of like falling into a pattern and I just, I'll just eat that because that's what I've always eaten. Or, you know, grab that thing that's quick and brainless to put in my mouth.

• 42:22Josh Clark?

  Grab it by the horns.

• 42:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. To really just have a heightened awareness of what you're eating, what's going in your body and every impact from your health to, to what it means to the world and to that animal. Just being more mindful is another reason that people will go to a plant-based diet.

• 42:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I think that's how people get to that from like religious mandated diets.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. And we'll, we'll put environmentalism in its own category because there's a whole section on that. But that's another reason.

• 42:50Josh Clark?

  Okay, let's pick up health outcomes. Let's dive into that a little more. So one of the things that people figure out pretty quickly when they become vegans in particular is that you can get really unhealthy really quick just eating food that qualifies as vegan food. There's a ton of processed vegan food out there. A lot of times, a lot of sweetener, including just sugar is added. And just basically eating packaged food or even french fries, as long as they're cooked in vegetable oil, those are vegan. And everyone knows that french fries aren't really good for you. So there is like a whole kind of blind alley that you have to watch out for when you get into veganism.

• 43:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, uh, I'm not a vegan, but it's, I can still say, you know, word of caution if you go that route, that you have to be more active in, in meal planning and cause what you really want to do is eat whole foods and eat real foods. So if you're like, I'm gonna go vegan and, and just sort of buy this, the ultra-processed stuff that is technically vegan, you're not doing yourself any health favors. Uh, I mean, you know, you're still doing, uh, and you know, as far as your moral values are concerned, you're doing right by that, but, uh, you want good outcomes all the way around. So just lean toward whole foods and the Mediterranean diet, which again, uh, people around the Mediterranean just call

• 44:16Speaker 02

  it eating. Um, that has roundly been, um, shown over the years to be kind of the, one of the ideal diets that you can lean toward.

• 44:26Josh Clark?

  I would say the ideal diet. I mean, as far as health outcomes go, like, I can't imagine how much this diet has been studied and, um, result after result shows that like some kinds of cancers, diabetes, cognitive decline, cardiovascular disease, um, like these things are all lower in people who eat like a Mediterranean diet. Like that's just what they eat than people who don't, especially regular meat eaters.

• 44:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. Uh, as far as the end of it, you know, we'll kind of go through a little bit about like who's deficient and what, depending on what you eat. Um, if you're looking at protein and saturated fat, uh, you're gonna have, uh, obviously if you're a meat eater, you're gonna have the highest intake among anyone and the lowest is gonna be among vegans. That's just makes a lot of sense. Uh, if you're a vegetarian or a fish eater, you're gonna be somewhere in the middle. And vegetarians are, uh, more likely than meat or fish eaters to have, uh, as a result, inadequate protein intake and vegans even more likely to have inadequate protein intake, I think, more than vegetarians.

• 45:33Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's a longstanding chestnut in like the, I guess, I don't want to say bodybuilding communities, people who work out like hardcore, that you can't possibly be ripped as a vegan. And our Stuff You Should Know listener, Doyle Wolfgang von Frankenstein, the guitarist for The Misfits, he is just vegan to the core, and he is totally ripped. And in fact, he has his own protein powder called Vegan Monster Protein, where you can get ripped yourself if you want to and still be a vegan.

• 46:06Speaker 02

  I think Ripped Vegan is, that's gotta already be a band name.

• 46:10Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, maybe that's his side band, his folk side band.

• 46:14Speaker 02

  Ripped Vegan. You might have a vitamin B12 deficiency if you are a vegan, because plants don't have B12. I think 52% of vegans are B12 deficient, 7% of vegetarians, and if you're a meat eater, you have a less than 1% chance of being B12 deficient.

• 46:35Josh Clark?

  That's a big deal, too. I mean, like, that is a well-known problem for vegans and vegetarians, because B12 is used for red blood cell production, cell wall production, nerve function, DNA production, and it's just not in plants. It's in meat, it's in fish, it's in dairy. So you really have to pay attention to that and basically take B12 supplements all the time to make sure you don't become deficient, because it's not good.

• 47:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. Here's one thing, though, and this is something that was controlled for BMI even. If you're a vegetarian or vegan, you have a kind of a remarkably, a remarkable statistical risk, or higher risk, I guess, of getting bone fracture than a meat eater. And especially when it comes to your hips, the risk of hip fracture with vegetarians, you have a 25% higher risk of fracturing your hip as a vegetarian, controlling for BMI again, and vegans, 131% higher chance of hip fracture.

• 47:35Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I so part of it is that B12 deficiency because B12 helps produce bone and so bone density. But I also wondered if vegans typically get less protein and therefore have less muscle mass. On average, obviously, you can get ripped as a vegan, but not everyone does. If you're more susceptible to falling, like you can lose your balance more easily because you have slightly less muscle mass than a meat eater. And then with with less bone density, if you do fall, you're more likely to break a bone. Just my I wonder.

• 48:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I did mention cancer, you know, I think we often talk about like heart attack and stroke and stuff like that by eating too much red meat. But cancer is another factor that I sort of briefly mentioned. But if you're a vegetarian or vegan, you have a 10 to 18% lower risk of cancer than meat eaters. Although, All Calls, All Calls Mortality, that's another good band name. And that's three band names. All Calls Mortality.

• 48:35Josh Clark?

  The best is Peckish and Peekid.

• 48:38Speaker 02

  All Calls, see, I that can't be our band name because I can't even say it at the end of the show. All dash Cause Mortality was not different, which is surprising between vegetarians and meat eaters and vegans.

• 48:53Josh Clark?

  Yeah, another thing that surprised me is that vegetarians have a 20% higher risk of having a hemorrhagic stroke. So we should say all of this data came from a 2021 analysis of this British cohort of 65,000 Brits that have been followed around since the 90s. So they managed to look at 20,000 vegetarians. So this is a pretty robust study. And they found that they have a 20% higher risk of stroke. They couldn't, they couldn't determine that for vegans. I think they only had like 2,500 in this cohort. But for for stroke, at least, they weren't able to figure out how how that affects vegans. You would assume

• 49:35Josh Clark?

  that it would be even an even higher percentage for vegans. But a hemorrhagic hemorrhagic stroke is where blood vessels in your brain start bleeding. Again, that would make sense because B12 helps fortify cell walls.

• 49:50Josh Clark?

  And I would think the lack of red blood cell production would have something to do with that, too. So I think what we're trying to say, the upshot is, is it's not just like a slam dunk that you're going to be healthier, or your lifetime health outcomes are automatically going to be better. But it's still, I mean, it's just, if your overall, or sorry, if your all dash cause mortality is going to be the same, then I don't know. I think that kind of makes an argument to eat whichever makes you feel best.

• 50:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's just a weird stat, the all dash cause. Yeah, I don't know. I can't explain it. Maybe someone will have some more information on that. But earlier, we did promise an entire section on the environmental impact of eating animals, because that is, that is yet another reason. And, you know, obviously, people have all kinds of reasons, and it's usually a combination of all these things. But we were learning, just, it's become plainly obvious more and more. This isn't the kind of thing, I think, that especially in America, people like to look at a lot in the past. But it seems like in the last, like, 15 years or so, people are sounding the alarm, like, hey, besides ethical concerns

• 51:02Speaker 02

  and health and all that other stuff, like, raising animals is, to eat is kind of a, or the way we do it is a disaster for the environment.

• 51:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah. So there's a lot of misleading stats out there that compare the amount of kilogram, kilograms of greenhouse gas emissions compared to the kilograms produced of something, right? That doesn't make any sense, because a kilogram of broccoli is a lot less, as far as food being spread among people than a kilogram, 2.2 pounds of beef, right? You can feed way more people with 2.2 pounds of beef than you can with 2.2 pounds of broccoli.

• 51:42Speaker 02

  So other people- Like, one and a half people.

• 51:44Josh Clark?

  Exactly. At best.

• 51:47Josh Clark?

  But so some people have said, well, let's just alter it a little bit. So we'll measure the kilograms of greenhouse gas emissions for every thousand calories produced. And so that makes it a lot more apples to apples comparison.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:01Josh Clark?

  But even still, when you alter it like that, the numbers essentially come out the same, which is that meat production has a much larger carbon footprint than almost any kind of plant production. Although there are some surprises, like for example, your beloved dark chocolate has a larger carbon footprint than producing poultry or pork. Chuck, how do you feel about your dark chocolate assault on top of it now?

• 52:26Speaker 02

  I didn't kill that chocolate. Uh, you know, coffee and chocolate are two pretty notorious, uh, you know, environmental disasters as well on the, on the non-meat side, for sure.

• 52:39Josh Clark?

  For sure. The reason why apparently is demand. Um, there's so much demand for chocolate that, uh, the deforestation that results to create more fields for cocoa production.

• 52:50Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 52:50Josh Clark?

  Um, that, that just is what's giving it such a huge footprint. And I think coffee is relatively the same.

• 52:58Josh Clark?

  Overall, though, I found a 2019 study from Sustainability, the journal. And they basically said vegetarians have 33% lower greenhouse gas emissions based on their diet than a vegan, than meat. And a vegan diet has 53% lower greenhouse gas emissions. It's just, that's just how it goes.

• 53:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, and, and if you're like, well, I like eating some meat. Um, the biggest offenders there are beef, lamb and mutton.

• 53:28Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I thought that was weird.

• 53:30Speaker 02

  Uh, beef produces 60 kilograms of greenhouse gas emissions uh, per kilogram and a kilogram of poultry is only six. Uh, and, but you compare that to a kilogram of just some, some English peas. That's under one kilogram of greenhouse gas emissions produced. So you might think that as far as water consumption goes, the plants would far outpace like a meat diet because you gotta water vegetables. But generally, there are just a few plant-based foods that have a bigger water footprint than beef.

• 54:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah, beef is just the worst offender of all. But livestock, raising livestock in general, apparently one-fifth to one-quarter of all the water used by humans goes to raising livestock, which is nuts. But the reason why is because not only do you need water to keep that head of cattle alive until you decide to kill it, you also need water to grow the grain that you feed that head of cattle. So they're just consuming all over the place, especially as far as water is concerned.

• 54:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, and just so you know, there are like zero sort of vegetables that outpace beef. The two that do outpace beef that I was referring to are chocolate and almonds.

• 54:45Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and who considers an almond a vegetable? Come on, give it up.

• 54:49Speaker 02

  And I think as far as lamb and mutton go, the two other biggest offenders in the meat category, only cashews, pistachios, and hazelnuts consume more water to produce than lamb and mutton.

• 55:01Josh Clark?

  Hazelnuts are so great, far and away the best nut.

• 55:04Speaker 02

  Oh, you think? Not the ground nut?

• 55:07Josh Clark?

  I haven't had one yet. Well, peanuts apparently are a ground nut. I have not had the bambara ground nut yet, so I should wait and reserve judgment.

• 55:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, peanuts, they grow underground, right?

• 55:17Josh Clark?

  Yep, they're a ground nut.

• 55:19Speaker 02

  I can just see Jimmy Carter holding a big thing of peanuts and roots with dirt falling off of them.

• 55:24Josh Clark?

  R.I.P. and God bless that man.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  That's right. The U.S. maintains about nine billion, nine billion livestock to get the meat that it needs or wants, I guess is the better way to say it. And if that grain went to humans, it'd be enough for 840 million people that have plant-based diets.

• 55:46Josh Clark?

  Yes. And there was another thing that I came across that I was kind of surprised by, totally makes sense, is if we en masse, as a species, humans, essentially abandoned livestock production, beef production or meat production, in favor of a plant-based diet, just basically globally, the chance of communicable diseases developing would drop drastically. Because 75% of emerging communicable diseases are zoonotic, which means humans get them from animals, and we make our closest contact with animals through the livestock industry.

• 56:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, and at petting zoos.

• 56:25Josh Clark?

  Yeah. I mean, as long as it wasn't grown in a lab, you can kiss communicable diseases goodbye.

• 56:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. The other environmental disaster of raising livestock, and this is more and more lately, is the habitat destruction to raise all these animals. You're talking about extinction of plant and animal species, and thousands more being threatened in the years upcoming because of habitat destruction. And it's also true for some kinds of agriculture. You know, we've talked about palm oil cultivation being a big problem for a lot of stuff, specifically orangutan populations, or at least by example. But beef, once again, is the biggest factor. Beef drives 41% of tropical deforestation globally,

• 57:14Speaker 02

  whereas palm oil and soy, which are two offenders on the other side, are only 18% combined.

• 57:20Josh Clark?

  That's all, just 18% of deforestation.

• 57:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I mean, the one takeaway here is beef, beef bad?

• 57:28Josh Clark?

  It's what's for dinner and what ruined the planet.

• 57:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's far and away leading the way in all the bad categories, you know?

• 57:36Josh Clark?

  It really does. So, yeah, I mean, we've just kind of touched the surface, especially on the environmental impact. There's a lot to dig into there, if that interested you. But I feel like we gave some good reasons for people to adopt a plant-based diet. I don't know if I'm going to fully, but I'd like to think it's, I'm kind of partway there already.

• 57:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, I eat more vegetables now. I eat way less red meat than I used to.

• 58:03Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 58:05Speaker 02

  For just like, all the reasons that we talked about.

• 58:08Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I cut my four-quarter pounders with cheese every day in half, and I eat both halves. Uh, since Chuck kinda laughed at my last joke, I think, everybody, that means we should probably slog along to listener mail.

• 58:24Speaker 02

  That was a real laugh. That was a, oh, Josh laughed.

• 58:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I know. I love those two.

• 58:28Speaker 02

  All right, uh, this, uh, this is from a Smithy, uh, because, because of us, actually.

• 58:34Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, I saw this one.

• 58:35Speaker 02

  Uh, "Hey, guys, I've always had a bit of an interest in metalworking, and as of about five years ago, I've had an interest in your show. Uh, I'd say your show has been the longest-running podcast of my life, actually. Uh, I remember listening to your episode about blacksmithing four years ago, and that kinda set off the domino effect of me getting really into blacksmithing as a hobby. I'm definitely one of those that like to collect hobbies with most passing in about six months, and I never pick it up again, but not true with blacksmithing. I've stuck with it since your episode came out, and I'd like to say I've come a long way with it. I've attached a few pictures of my work," which was very good, by the way, "uh, starting with early works and all the way to the two I completed about a week ago. Uh, I thought you might be interested in seeing how your show kicked off one of my favorite hobbies

• 59:16Speaker 02

  I've ever had, so thanks for that." And that is from, uh, Tate Avent. Uh, and you can find Tate, just look up Tater Makes, T-A-I-T-E-R-M-A-K-E-S, and check out Tate's work.

• 59:30Josh Clark?

  Well, thanks a lot, Tate. That is awesome. Congratulations on your awesome hobby and getting so good at it. And, uh, we really appreciate you letting us know that we had some sort of small, tiny impact on you. We love hearing that kind of thing. If you want to be like Tate and let us know that we had some small, tiny impact on you, please send it via email to [email protected].

• 59:54Speaker 00

  Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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• 1:01:36Speaker 05

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.